Time  Nick         Message
00:09 rangi        !jenkins_koha status
00:09 jenkins_koha rangi did you mean me? Unknown command '_koha'
00:09 jenkins_koha Use '!jenkins help' to get help!
00:09 rangi        !jenkins status
00:09 jenkins_koha status of all projects:
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha Docs 3.16.x: last build: 5 (1 mo 3 days ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha%20Docs%203.16.x/5/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.10.x: last build: 189 (10 mo ago): UNSTABLE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.10.x/189/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.12.x(disabled) : last build: 1156 (5 mo 27 days ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.12.x/1156/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.12.x_D6: last build: 12 (2 mo 0 days ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.12.x_D6/12/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.12.x_D7: last build: 10 (2 mo 4 days ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.12.x_D7/10/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.12.x_U12: last build: 12 (2 mo 2 days ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.12.x_U12/12/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.12.x_U14: last build: 13 (2 mo 2 days ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.12.x_U14/13/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.14.x(disabled) : last build: 92 (6 mo 1 day ago): UNSTABLE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.14.x/92/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.14.x_D6: last build: 48 (2 days 7 hr ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.14.x_D6/48/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.14.x_D7: last build: 54 (2 days 7 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.14.x_D7/54/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.14.x_U12: last build: 52 (2 days 6 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.14.x_U12/52/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.14.x_U14: last build: 55 (2 days 7 hr ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.14.x_U14/55/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.16.x(disabled) : last build: 771 (6 mo 2 days ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.16.x/771/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.16.x_D6: last build: 30 (6 days 11 hr ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.16.x_D6/30/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.16.x_D7: last build: 30 (6 days 11 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.16.x_D7/30/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.16.x_U12: last build: 31 (6 days 11 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.16.x_U12/31/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.16.x_U14: last build: 33 (6 days 11 hr ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.16.x_U14/33/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.18.x_D6(in queue) : last build: 6 (7 days 23 hr ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.18.x_D6/6/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.18.x_D7(in queue) : last build: 9 (7 days 23 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.18.x_D7/9/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.18.x_U12: last build: 1 (16 days ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.18.x_U12/1/
00:09 rangi        yeah remind me not to do that again
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.18.x_U14: last build: 6 (7 days 23 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.18.x_U14/6/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.8.x: last build: 368 (7 mo 16 days ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/368/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_Docs: last build: 585 (14 days ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/585/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_Docs_3.10.x: last build: 76 (9 mo 3 days ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.10.x/76/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_Docs_3.12.x: last build: 66 (3 mo 28 days ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.12.x/66/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_Docs_3.14.x: last build: 87 (1 mo 4 days ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.14.x/87/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_Docs_3.8.x: last build: 44 (1 yr 3 mo ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.8.x/44/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_master(disabled) : last build: 1931 (5 mo 27 days ago): ABORTED: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1931/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_Master_D6(BUILDING: 3 min 54 sec and counting): last build: 253 (49 min ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D6/253/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_Master_D7(BUILDING: 41 min and counting): last build: 270 (1 hr 24 min ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D7/270/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_Master_U12(BUILDING: 28 min and counting): last build: 273 (1 hr 29 min ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U12/273/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_Master_U12_MariaDB(BUILDING: 26 min and counting): last build: 199 (1 hr 30 min ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U12_MariaDB/199/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_Master_U14(BUILDING: 40 min and counting): last build: 259 (1 hr 27 min ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U14/259/
00:09 jenkins_koha Koha_Master_Webserver_Test: last build: 1 (4 days 23 hr ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_Webserver_Test/1/
00:09 jenkins_koha master_maria(disabled) : last build: 805 (4 mo 7 days ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/master_maria/805/
00:10 rangi        hmm i wonder why jenkins is being so quiet on job builds
00:10 * rangi      goes to look
00:12 rangi        ahh its set to only notify on failure, or on fix
00:12 rangi        so if it builds fine, its silent
00:15 tcohen       wizzyrea: around?
00:15 rangi        shes at lunch
00:15 tcohen       rangi: thanks
00:15 jenkins_koha Starting build #7 for job Koha_3.18.x_U14 (previous build: SUCCESS)
00:24 wizzyrea     hi tcohen :)
00:24 tcohen       hi :-D
00:25 tcohen       i attached a followup to a bug of yours
00:25 wizzyrea     oh neat which?
00:25 wizzyrea     I suppose it probably turned up in bug mail...
00:25 tcohen       "for the sake of usability" on z39.50
00:25 tcohen       or something like that
00:25 tcohen       =D
00:25 tcohen       was about to push it, really
00:26 tcohen       along with yours, just wanted to check with the author
00:26 wizzyrea     yeah, I agree with that
00:26 wizzyrea     :)
00:26 wizzyrea     I'll note it
00:27 wizzyrea     oh also what's this "search items" thing we've got now in the staff client
00:27 wizzyrea     1. oh hey that's cool, 2. bah it doesn't seem to work?
00:27 wizzyrea     also the add items screen - is it just me or has it gone a bit mad?
00:28 rangi        http://demo-intra.mykoha.co.nz/cgi-bin/koha/cataloguing/additem.pl?biblionumber=649  <-- that screen? (user:staff pass:staff1)
00:29 rangi        looks like a missing div or /div or something
00:29 wizzyrea     yeah
00:29 wizzyrea     well the fields too
00:29 wizzyrea     oh no it's only when you've used teh fast add framework maybe?
00:29 wizzyrea     that must be it.
00:30 wizzyrea     http://demo-intra.mykoha.co.nz/cgi-bin/koha/cataloguing/additem.pl?biblionumber=30647 > rangi
00:30 wizzyrea     these two screens are different.
00:31 wizzyrea     ^ that one with the FA framework
00:31 rangi        yeah it's to do with the framework
00:31 rangi        FA has a ton of fields for the item
00:32 wizzyrea     I would ask why but I suspect it's a 123
00:32 rangi        its mostly actually to do with the fact that that item has a lot more info defined
00:32 rangi        than 649
00:32 rangi        if i add more info to 649
00:38 dcook        What looks weird at demo-intra...?
00:38 dcook        Whoa... I see.. yeah that 30647 does look weird..
00:39 dcook        m - Koha renewals?
00:39 wizzyrea     yeah I need one with a clean DB I think.
00:39 wizzyrea     to see if FA really does that
00:39 wizzyrea     if it does OMG THAT IS SO DUMB (caps intentional, and deserved.)
00:39 dcook        That's some weird Koha to MARC mapping...
00:40 wizzyrea     I know, let's make a fast add that actually has MORE stuff!
00:40 dcook        hehe
00:40 wizzyrea     sorry I"ll stop raging soon I promise.
00:40 wizzyrea     :)
00:40 wizzyrea     to be fair it might be that DB
00:41 dcook        Certainly looks like a DB config thing
00:42 wizzyrea     naw i'm told that they've been mapped forever, but are normally hidden. I just need to nuke that fw and install the default fast add ;)
00:43 wizzyrea     but not today.
01:00 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Master_U12_MariaDB build #200: FAILURE in 1 hr 17 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U12_MariaDB/200/
01:00 jenkins_koha * Katrin.Fischer.83@web.de: Bug 11706: Typo fix for "efault" in old database update
01:00 jenkins_koha * Katrin.Fischer.83@web.de: Bug 10051: Separate first name and surname with comma in overdues report
01:00 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 13355: System preferences tab value wrong in templates
01:00 jenkins_koha * Mason James: fix for 13331 [Bug 13331] Subfield does not show in cataloging editor - if subfield is disabled in OPAC/enabled in Staff, via frameworks
01:00 jenkins_koha * Marc Veron: Bug 13410 - Untranslatable "Change messaging preferences to default for this category?"
01:00 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 13410 [QA Followup]
01:00 jenkins_koha * Chris Cormack: Bug 13368 Holds priority messed up on checkout
01:00 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11706 trivial, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Pushed to Master , Typo "efault" in updatedatabase.pl
01:00 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10051 trivial, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Pushed to Master , surname and first name should have comma in overdues report
01:00 jenkins_koha * Alexander Cheeseman: bug 13460: suggestion.tt now uses Price plugin
01:00 jenkins_koha * Katrin.Fischer.83@web.de: Bug 12059: Publisher column on invoice page always empty
01:00 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 12059: Prefer to list fields in the query
01:00 jenkins_koha * Katrin.Fischer.83@web.de: Bug 12084: Format planned date in publication details on detail page
01:00 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13355 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , System preferences tab value wrong in templates
01:00 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13331 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Pushed to Master , Subfield does not show in cataloging editor - if subfield is disabled in OPAC/enabled in Staff, via frameworks
01:00 jenkins_koha * Marc Veron: Bug 13400: Untranslatable "Are you sure you want to delete this authority?"
01:00 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 13400 [QA Followup] - Fix tabs and quotes
01:00 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 13449 - Syndetics TOC will not display in some cases
01:00 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13410 trivial, P5 - low, ---, veron, Pushed to Master , Untranslatable "Change messaging preferences to default for this category?"
01:00 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13368 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Pushed to Master , Checking out an item not on loan, but with a hold, busts the holds priority
01:00 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13460 trivial, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Pushed to Master , Use price template toolkit plugin across all of intranet
01:00 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12059 minor, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Pushed to Master , Publisher code always empty on invoice
01:00 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12084 minor, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Pushed to Master , Published date for serial items not formatted according to dateformat system preference
01:00 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13400 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, veron, Pushed to Master , Untranslatable "Are you sure you want to delete this authority?"
01:00 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13449 minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , Syndetics TOC will not display in some cases
01:01 jenkins_koha Starting build #8 for job Koha_3.18.x_U14 (previous build: SUCCESS)
01:19 wizzyrea     aleisha++ that's a great one to sign off.
01:35 eythian      http://blog.spark.io/2014/12/17/warsting-a-wifi-scanning-sword-for-hobbits/
01:39 rangi        heh
01:39 rangi        should get that for nate
01:39 dcook        hehe
01:40 wizzyrea     heheh
01:46 jenkins_koha Starting build #9 for job Koha_3.18.x_U14 (previous build: SUCCESS)
01:58 wizzyrea     confetti
01:58 wahanui      confetti is http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpm3j6aNaN1qh8hleo1_400.gif
01:58 * wizzyrea   just wanted to see that gif
04:45 jenkins_koha Starting build #10 for job Koha_3.18.x_U14 (previous build: SUCCESS)
05:20 dcook        "Checking the box right next the label will disable the entry and delete the values of that field on all selected patrons"
05:20 dcook        You see... I read that... but I thought it was still necessary to check the box and enter a value...
05:20 dcook        Nope O_O
05:20 * dcook      is glad the nuke can be undid
05:25 eythian      A nice thing to do would be have the text box disabled if the checkbox is checked, and visa-versa. Also to perhaps highlight the "delete" part if it is checked.
05:25 eythian      I feel that that explanation text is too wordy to be easily understood.
05:27 * dcook      agrees
05:30 jenkins_koha Starting build #11 for job Koha_3.18.x_U14 (previous build: SUCCESS)
06:02 ashimema_    morning
06:02 eythian      ashimema_: hello
06:03 dcook        yo ashimema_
06:03 * ashimema_  could do with some more sleep
06:03 * dcook      hears that
06:04 ashimema_    /me's brain wouldn't stop working out dbic queries last night
06:04 * ashimema_  's brain wouldn't stop working out dbic queries last night
06:04 ashimema_    hmm
06:04 ashimema_    anywho..
06:04 eythian      sounds like nightmares
06:04 ashimema_    how are the two of you?
06:04 eythian      sleepy
06:04 ashimema_    yup...
06:05 ashimema_    I woke up at 4am and have been coding ever since..
06:05 ashimema_    I have no idea what time it would be over there
06:05 eythian      7pm
06:07 ashimema_    beeing sleepy that early is bad ;)
06:07 eythian      oh, yesterday was our xmas party. I may have had a late one :)
06:07 ashimema_    So.. as I've caught you awake, may I quiz you with regard to data migration workflows eythian?
06:07 eythian      sure
06:07 ashimema_    haha.. I see..
06:08 ashimema_    I'm mostly interested in the 'where' in the equation..
06:08 ashimema_    i.e. where you carry out your data manipulation and then loading.
06:09 ashimema_    we're moving to using multi-tenant packages for live and I'm getting grief from our migrations guy as he's always had live systems running dev installs to play with before..
06:09 ashimema_    so he just did everything in place..
06:09 ashimema_    but on a multi-tenant live system with packages.. that approach scares the liing daylights out of me.
06:10 eythian      hmm, so I do most of the stuff on my desktop, but when I have something to show someone, we put it on a test server.
06:10 ashimema_    and then to progress to live?
06:10 eythian      sometimes we do it on the to-be-prod system if they're the only one on there, but I don't really like doing it on ones that are in prod use by other people.
06:10 eythian      it feels dangerous
06:11 ashimema_    yeah.. that's my thoughts too.
06:11 eythian      often we do a database dump from the test server and just load that into live.
06:11 dcook        DBIC queries are good times...
06:11 * dcook      is still looking at scrollback
06:11 ashimema_    I'm thinking.. Set up a dev type install for him for each new customer.. let him work as he always has.. then upon go live, migrate the db across
06:12 eythian      There's a handy little thing with that that prevents accidents (i.e. the commit will abort if you try to put it into the wrong database if you cat the SQL into koha-mysql
06:12 eythian      )
06:12 ashimema_    k.. so your pretty much along the same lines as me..
06:12 ashimema_    ooh.. that's a nice idea
06:12 eythian      assuming you do the dump so that it has 'use database_name' at the top, and your database names between testing and prod match.
06:12 ashimema_    i was probably just thinking a normal db restore.. but your trick seems safer :)
06:13 ashimema_    that's the aim, yeah
06:13 eythian      yeah, just the SQL dumps.
06:13 eythian      Many of our clients have a test system that we provide for them as well, so it's easy enough to do it there.
06:13 ashimema_    are you running many multi-tenant servers?
06:14 eythian      most of our hosted clients are on multitenant servers
06:14 ashimema_    I think it's the multi-tenant bit that he's most pushing against..
06:14 ashimema_    cool
06:14 eythian      (but most of our servers are single tenant, because that's how maths works :)
06:14 ashimema_    that's where I'de like to be..
06:15 ashimema_    oh, I see..
06:15 ashimema_    I've got an NHS cluster going.. one multi-tenant server with 5 koha's..
06:15 ashimema_    and an accademic cluster with a further 3 koha's
06:16 ashimema_    but thus far everyone else is still dev installs on thier own vm each
06:16 ashimema_    which is less than efficient.
06:16 ashimema_    aim is to migrate them across one by one when I get the time
06:16 eythian      ah yep
06:16 dcook        eythian: that's how maths works?
06:17 eythian      dcook: if you have 5 on server A, 5 on server B, and 1 each on servers X, Y, Z, then most clients are on few servers, but more servers are single tenant.
06:17 ashimema_    they don't actually have many hosted koha customers at catalyst dcook..
06:17 ashimema_    that's my understanding
06:17 eythian      we don't have heaps, but we do have a few. Probably more since you last asked :)
06:17 ashimema_    that's nice to hear..
06:18 ashimema_    rangi really sruprised me with the numbers last time I spoke to him..
06:18 ashimema_    for such big players, you seemed to have very few hosted customers
06:18 dcook        eythian: Ahh, I getcha now. Crafty :p.
06:18 eythian      looks like 13 hosted, one more to go live early next year.
06:19 ashimema_    cool.. that's great news..
06:19 dcook        eythian: Does that mean you remotely deploy or...?
06:19 ashimema_    our numbers scare me.. regarding supporting loads of seperate servers
06:19 eythian      dcook: what do you mean?
06:19 eythian      ashimema_: yeah, that can get hard work fast unless you're really good about using something like puppet.
06:19 dcook        eythian: Maybe I'm not following y ou. 13 hosted clients or 13 servers for hosting?
06:20 eythian      dcook: 13 libraries we host.
06:20 dcook        And what about the ones you dont' host?
06:20 eythian      similarish again
06:20 dcook        Similarish?
06:20 eythian      those have varying levels of support, depending on what they need/want.
06:20 eythian      roughly the same number.
06:21 dcook        But they're all self-hosted or hosted elsewhere or whatever, yeah?
06:21 dcook        So 26?
06:21 dcook        Hmm
06:21 dcook        I'm surprised by those numbers too, ashimema_
06:21 eythian      yeah, hosted on their infrastructure.
06:21 eythian      typically we VPN/SSH in to do things for them.
06:21 dcook        Neato burrito
06:21 dcook        (to quote my younger sister)
06:22 ashimema_    I hate it when customers decide they want to self host
06:22 dcook        I think the vast majority of ours are hosted
06:23 dcook        hehe
06:23 dcook        Actually, I think... all but one of ours are hosted
06:23 eythian      it is a bit annoying, it means our sysadmins can't manage the server updates etc.
06:23 ashimema_    we actually charge the same or less for hosting it now as we do to support a cpy they host themselves
06:23 eythian      the ones that host themselves tend to be lower maintenance.
06:23 ashimema_    I'd say 98% of our customers are now hosted..
06:24 dcook        eythian: Yeah, the self-hosted one is really low maintenance
06:24 dcook        I think we just have one..
06:24 ashimema_    yeah, we use salt-stack (like puppet and chef) for server management.. but it's not exactly all that well advanced yet..
06:24 dcook        A few with dedicated servers and lots are multitenant
06:24 dcook        ashimema_: neato. I was thinking of looking at that one
06:24 ashimema_    we grew very organically so it's been a ission to centralise server management after the fact
06:24 ashimema_    you use multitenant allot dcook..
06:24 ashimema_    cool
06:25 eythian      yeah, we have similar issues, I'd really like to do something about that.
06:25 ashimema_    do you follow similar migration steps as eythian?
06:25 dcook        ashimema_: Good question. I was just wondering about that
06:25 eythian      one of these days I'll build a magic system that gives us autoscaling in openstack, but it's a fair bit of work.
06:25 ashimema_    haha.. indeed
06:26 dcook        Yeah, I'm slowly moving us towards more magic
06:26 dcook        Slowly but surely
06:26 dcook        Well, robust magic
06:26 dcook        There is always a bit of magic
06:26 ashimema_    It's really hard getting people to update their personal workflows..
06:26 dcook        more robust*
06:26 dcook        So true
06:26 * dcook      has worked hard on that one
06:26 dcook        As for migration...
06:26 ashimema_    I need good hard evidence of why our migrations guy should start doing them differently..
06:26 dcook        I suppose my boss handles all the migrations
06:27 dcook        So more of the coarse work
06:27 dcook        While as I tend to do more work with finesse
06:27 ashimema_    the annoyance is to do it his old way we'de have to stick with a server per cusotmer which is expensive (both in terms of money and everyone elses time)
06:27 dcook        Like... working out the last few details
06:27 dcook        We have special setups for migrations and testing
06:28 ashimema_    I'd like to go along the lines of temporary test servers for the migration grunt.. then when ready for live migrate the database onto the live multi-tenant
06:28 dcook        I point my dev install at the branch I need, throw in a DB, and then work
06:29 ashimema_    and blow away the temp server (after backing up of course)
06:29 ashimema_    yeah.. me too dcook
06:29 eythian      dcook: that's how I do dev stuff too
06:29 dcook        Mmm, we do have a line of backup servers which we sometimes use for things too
06:29 dcook        Like if a client is already live but needs to migrate some new data
06:30 eythian      oh yeah, we've got one of those coming up soon.
06:30 dcook        We still have the backup of the database, but we swap the prod DB into the "live" backup
06:30 dcook        So they can trouble shoot it
06:30 ashimema_    that's the case in point that my collegue is using to push back hard on.. 'but what fi they decide at future date x that they want more data migrating... I wan't all my work to just be there and workign for me already'
06:31 dcook        I think a temporary system would be fine in that scenario
06:31 dcook        Or not temporary.. but not dedicated
06:31 ashimema_    me too
06:31 dcook        We sometimes use generic instances to load migration data and have clients look at that
06:31 ashimema_    I should script this.. the creation of a system part at least.
06:31 dcook        It's the same code and the same DB
06:32 dcook        ashimema_: should be easy enough :)
06:32 dcook        Ah, but we don't use packages
06:32 dcook        We use OpenSuse, so I've rigged up my own scripts
06:32 ashimema_    eythian,dcook.. how do you go about testing stuff that has to be tested on the live server before the live day then?
06:32 dcook        One of these days I'll learn how to package RPMs for Suse...
06:32 ashimema_    for instance sip connections
06:32 eythian      well, if we need to do more work on their data, we copy the prod DB into test and do it there, you need current data anyway.
06:33 eythian      ashimema_: it's hopefully all good on the testing server
06:33 eythian      but if need be, then we do it on the prod server.
06:33 dcook        Alas, haven't had much experience with SIP so not sure about that one
06:33 eythian      it's nicer if you can not do that though.
06:33 dcook        Yeah, I suppose if you needed to do it on prod, you could always just make an adjacent instance... and then maybe tweak as necessary
06:33 dcook        We don't have heaps of people using SIP though
06:34 dcook        And the ones that do often have dedicated servers, iirc
06:34 ashimema_    yeah.. unfortunately most of our customers use sip self-checks and most demand that we check a few connections from the live server work before go live day
06:34 eythian      we have a few, it's reasonably straightforward.
06:34 dcook        Yeah, I'd probably just test it on prod then
06:35 ashimema_    just trying to think of anything else to ask whilst i've got you both ;)
06:35 dcook        Haha, I am thinking of running out in a minute
06:35 ashimema_    do you add any custom background scripts to your multi-tenant live servers?
06:35 dcook        Oh man... we have custom scripts coming out of everywhere
06:35 ashimema_    for instance a background job to sync user data with a customers local registry
06:35 * dcook      actually did some tidying up today in fact..
06:35 dcook        Ah, stuff like that
06:35 dcook        Mmm
06:35 eythian      we don't
06:36 dcook        A bit
06:36 dcook        Sometimes for integrating DSpace and Koha
06:36 dcook        Or... shipping stuff off to Ebsco
06:36 ashimema_    I would like to standardise ours and stick it back in community.
06:36 eythian      there's one system (that we don't host) that automatically moves prod data to their own testing server, but that's not very complicated.
06:36 ashimema_    but there will always be extra bits.. as you say like ebsco exports
06:36 dcook        Yeah, and Ebsco can be a bit fiddly
06:36 eythian      hmm, we might have something for ebsco, I'm not actually sure.
06:36 dcook        We have a few others I think
06:36 dcook        Depending on what the client needs
06:37 ashimema_    we have shed loads of custom scripts and customizations in general..
06:37 ashimema_    I'm desperately trying to ween us off them all
06:37 dcook        \o/
06:37 dcook        I think we only have...
06:38 * dcook      checks
06:38 dcook        Roughly 126 customizations to Koha
06:38 dcook        A few of those are waiting for sign offs
06:38 dcook        It's actually not a bad number... when I first started here I think it was around 230
06:38 dcook        I've gotten in about 70-some patches I think
06:38 ashimema_    and are those spread randomly accross customers.. or shared customisation applied across all customers dcook
06:39 dcook        And the other 30 I think weren't needed anymore as someone else in the community had done them
06:39 ashimema_    the fact you could give me a figure makes it sound like the later
06:39 dcook        Yep
06:39 dcook        We control a lot of things with system preferences
06:39 ashimema_    lol.. all part of the same game plan..
06:39 dcook        And other options
06:40 dcook        Really though, I'd love to reduce that 126 by a lot
06:40 dcook        Slowly but surely...
06:40 eythian      we have a few branches for different people, but whenever we can we try to lose customisations.
06:40 ashimema_    i'm going through customers one at a time and cleaning up their custom work for submission into community. ;)
06:40 ashimema_    but at the moment they're all running very different branches to each other :'(
06:40 dcook        :(
06:40 dcook        Yeah, we pretty much support two versions at a time and everyone runs on the same
06:40 eythian      we group them into classes, and so one customised branch is used by many libraries, even if they're on different servers.
06:41 dcook        Well, I guess three versions at the moment, but no one is on the third. It's just an OAI harvester tester
06:41 dcook        eythian: sounds like a good way of doing it
06:41 ashimema_    that's exactly where Id like to get to eythian.
06:41 eythian      it just reduces the branch management mess a bit.
06:41 ashimema_    deffo
06:41 ashimema_    mess being the operative word there
06:41 ashimema_    cheers guys.. that's really helped.
06:42 dcook        :)
06:42 dcook        Glad to have helped
06:42 dcook        And one day... that 126 will be far lower...
06:42 dcook        It's mostly about having the time to upstream changes
06:42 ashimema_    now to go back to our migrations man and tell him he's being needlessly silly.
06:42 dcook        We have a lot of clients O_O
06:42 dcook        And we're always working on new things too
06:42 dcook        hehe
06:42 dcook        I didn't say anything about anyone being silly :p
06:42 dcook        But yeah, I think you and he have options
06:43 eythian      hi cait
06:43 ashimema_    i'm looking at it from the 'greater good' picture..
06:43 ashimema_    the compan would do better as a whole if the larger number of people had less work and we had less hardware expense
06:43 ashimema_    ;)
06:43 ashimema_    that's going to be my sales pitch
06:43 * cait       waves
06:43 cait         was reading back
06:43 ashimema_    morning cit
06:44 eythian      ashimema_: want us to send some people your way to build you an openstack cluster? :)
06:44 dcook        :D
06:44 dcook        hey cait
06:44 cait         :)
06:44 dcook        I should really go home..
06:44 dcook        Actually, I should go look for gardening stuff
06:44 eythian      me too, just ran security updates for everyone.
06:44 dcook        We just got a vermicomposting bin yesterday
06:44 eythian      well, all the ones that we do that for that aren't internal.
06:44 eythian      and only the ones with a working VPN...
06:46 ashimema_    i'm not sure an openstack cluster would really win us anything eythian ;)
06:46 eythian      we're wanting to eventually move all our stuff onto it
06:46 ashimema_    we can already scale our servers up and down dynamically as we need to..
06:46 eythian      ah right
06:46 ashimema_    i'm not sure what openstack does better ;)
06:46 ashimema_    can't really remember it's main selling point
06:47 eythian      I want to have it all automatic in the end, so at night there might only be one server, but during the day when things are busy it scales up to handle the load.
06:47 eythian      so all clients behind one load balancer, and on any number of identical web frontends talking to a separate search and db server.
06:48 ashimema_    ooh.. that is cool
06:48 ashimema_    we're not doing that sort of load balancing at all yet..
06:48 eythian      it'll be a while before we get there though :)
06:48 ashimema_    though I'd like to move that way..
06:48 ashimema_    at the moment, if a system seems as though it's getting bogged down, we just increase it's resources..
06:49 ashimema_    our system basically has a 'performance' slider.. which increases cpu cores and ram
06:49 eythian      we'd also like to have a website where you can buy your own koha instance and it just adds stuff to make it happen automatically, but that'll be even further off.
06:49 ashimema_    biblibre do that I beleive
06:49 ashimema_    I'de also like to do that.. but the guys above me don;'t think it's worth our time
06:50 eythian      oh yeah? The main issue is that koha instances are fairly heavyweight. I don't know if that is avoidable though.
06:50 ashimema_    I thought they did..
06:50 dcook        Hmm, that does sound interesting...
06:51 eythian      in the medium term, I'd like to get the instances able to be deployed by puppet.
06:51 ashimema_    I 'think' http://www.pikoloco.com/
06:51 dcook        Oh no... not the configuration manager conversation... I was just about to go...
06:52 * dcook      is going to get back to Chef and AWS on Monday... and maybe start using Ansible for his personal computers
06:52 eythian      ashimema_: that sure looks like it
06:52 * dcook      runs off before anyone can say anything more
06:52 eythian      my French is more or less non-existant however.
06:52 dcook        night all
06:52 wahanui      goodnight dcook. You'll be back.
06:52 eythian      later dcook
06:52 * dcook      will look at the French stuff in the morning :p
06:52 * dcook      really goes this time
06:54 ashimema_    our hosting providers use Ansible dcook
06:54 ashimema_    I 'think' i've i'de found Ansible before Salt I may have used it
06:54 ashimema_    i use google translate eythian
06:55 eythian      that would have been sensible :)
06:59 eythian      also time for me to go, later ashimema_, cait
07:00 * Oak        waves
07:00 ashimema_    night mate
07:00 Oak          later Mr. Robin
07:00 cait         bye eythian, hi Oak
07:00 Oak          hello Katrin
07:01 cait         :)
07:01 Oak          :)
07:01 Oak          how is Marcus?
07:05 cait         good i think, gonna visit themfor christmas
07:06 Oak          cool.
07:07 Oak          he has a sister as well now?
07:10 cait         no still no nieces :)
07:13 Oak          :) okay.
07:34 magnuse      Oak
07:35 marcelr      hi #koha
07:37 cait         hi marcelr :)
07:37 marcelr      :)
07:37 * magnuse    waves
07:38 cait         bbiab
07:44 reiveune     hello
07:53 marcelr      hi magnuse and reiveune
07:54 reiveune     hi marcelr dcook rangi
08:11 drojf        good morning #koha
08:11 magnuse      moin drojf
08:12 drojf        hei magnuse
08:15 magnuse      :-)
08:21 cait         good morning #koha
08:22 drojf        hi cait
08:22 cait         hi drojf :)
08:22 cait         feeling better?
08:23 drojf        not sure yet :)
08:29 cait         hm
08:35 magnuse      kia ora cait
08:36 cait         hi magnuse
08:45 gaetan_B     hello
08:46 cait         hi gaetan_B
09:03 Oak          magnuse
09:03 ashimema     I is confused
09:08 magnuse      ashimema: anything we can do to help?
09:08 * magnuse    waves at akafred
09:50 mtompset     Greetings, #koha.
09:53 mtompset     I'm trying to make sense of the plack instructions on the wiki.
09:53 mtompset     Anyone around who is familiar with Plack?
10:23 nlegrand     Hey #koha
10:33 BobB         hi
10:34 BobB         does anyone know what the account type FU represents, in the Patron (Fines) module?
10:37 magnuse      hiya nlegrand and BobB
10:37 nlegrand     o/ magnuse
10:38 magnuse      BobB: Fine Unpaid? http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Hard_Coded_Values
10:38 BobB         hi magnuse
10:39 BobB         yeah, I thought of that, but how would it be different to F (Fine)?
10:39 magnuse      heh, no idea
10:40 BobB         I do notice that for the particular item the fine has maxed out at the 'Overdue Fines Cap'
10:41 BobB         So FO or FM might have made sense, but FU?
10:42 BobB         we'll look in the code then
10:42 BobB         thx magnuse
10:45 cait         fines unpaid
10:45 cait         i think it's about being returned or not, but not totally sure
10:46 magnuse      maybe there are some hints in Bug 9626
10:46 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9626 critical, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , can't pay FU fines without messing things up
10:47 drojf        bug 13465 may be qa'd :)
10:47 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13465 critical, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Fields controlled by authorized values cannot be unset (Lost, damaged, not for loan status, ...)
10:53 cait         Joubu++
10:53 cait         will try tonight, but hoping someone beats me to it
10:56 gaetan_B     is www.koha-community.com down ?
10:57 cait         .org?
10:57 cait         :)
10:57 gaetan_B     :-|
10:57 cait         browser autocomplete?
10:57 gaetan_B     good point cait :)
10:57 cait         happy to be able to help :)
11:00 gaetan_B     there is something at koha-community.com though, but it just serves a blank page
11:02 paxed        FU == Fine Update
11:03 cait         ah
11:04 paxed        C4/Overdues.pm has a FIXME listing the codes.
11:26 BobB         ok, thank you paxed
14:16 mveron       hi #koha
14:16 mveron       @wunder Allschwil
14:16 huginn       mveron: The current temperature in Wetter Allschwil, Allschwil, Switzerland is 11.8°C (3:16 PM CET on December 18, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 99%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady).
14:16 magnuse      bye #koha
14:16 magnuse      @wunder boo
14:16 huginn       magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -1.0°C (2:50 PM CET on December 18, 2014). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 60%. Dew Point: -8.0°C. Windchill: -9.0°C. Pressure: 29.09 in 985 hPa (Steady).
14:16 mveron       bye magnuse :-)
14:33 drojf        hi mveron :)
14:33 drojf        @wunder berlin, germany
14:33 huginn       drojf: The current temperature in Berolinastr., Berlin-Mitte, Berlin, Germany is 9.9°C (3:30 PM CET on December 18, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Windchill: 10.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
14:33 mveron       hi drojf :-)
16:05 mveron       bye #koha
17:21 gaetan_B     bye
17:46 KotH         a wonderfull evening!
17:51 KotH         i installed koha on a debian/stable machine from the koha repository. everything works fine, but responce time of koha is abysimally slow. every access takes seconds (between 1 and 20 seconds)
17:51 KotH         the system seems to spend time in some of the perl scripts
17:52 reiveune     bye
17:52 KotH         is this a known problem? if so, any hints how to fix it (i couldnt find anything in the bug reports), if it isnt how can i further investigate the cause?
17:52 cait         KotH: not sure - 20 seconds istoo long
17:53 KotH         yes, i'm surprised apache doesnt time out
17:53 ashimema     any script in particular might at least narrow it down..
17:53 KotH         ok, the machine is veeeery old. a dual P-III 1GHz
17:53 KotH         but i thought it's fine for testing :)
17:53 ashimema     I run koha for dev purposes on a 1 core 1 gb ram system..
17:54 ashimema     and it ticks along ok
17:55 KotH         login takes 5 seconds... spending most of the time in opac-main.pl
17:58 ashimema     ooh..
17:58 ashimema     now that is odd..
17:58 ashimema     that's usually very snappy..
17:58 ashimema     it's searching the catalogue that really slows on an underpowered system..
17:58 ashimema     I'm afraid I've gotta go cook the daughters dinner now..
17:59 ashimema     but should be back later if your still struggling
17:59 KotH         oki. have fun
18:00 drojf        KotH: how much RAM dou you have? if you run into swap it can get pretty slow
18:01 drojf        *do
18:01 KotH         1.8G
18:01 KotH         and no, the system isnt swapping
18:01 KotH         that was the first thing i checked
18:02 drojf        hm no that should be ore than enough
18:02 drojf        *more
18:09 KotH         the strace output looks like perl is spending most of its time to look for modules to load
18:09 KotH         which is ... weird
18:16 drojf        KotH:  one thing that seemed to slow down things for me in the opac was a 'color.css' entry in opaccolorstylesheet that referenced a file that did not exist
18:17 KotH         i didnt see any stats on that
18:17 * KotH       wonders whether he should use mod_perl
18:21 cait         hm no
18:21 cait         KotH: strange question maybe, but how did you install and from where?
18:22 cait         just checking to make sure :)
18:24 KotH         i put "deb http://debian.koha-community.org/koha squeeze main" into my sources.list and then just "apt-get install koha-common"
18:24 KotH         system is a debian/stable (wheezy)
18:25 KotH         perl 5.14
18:25 wahanui      perl 5.14 is from Ubuntu.
18:25 cait         hm ok
18:40 * chris_n    give his zebra a swift kick
18:41 chris_n      reindexing gets hung and borks with "zebraidx(439) [warn] Couldn't open collection.abs [No such file or directory]" and cranks up the CPU load thusly:  4.77, 1.97, 1.04
18:42 chris_n      I don't recall a collection.abs; is that something new in the last couple of years?
18:45 KotH         eh.. it is loading modules... most stime is spend in  Class::Accessor::Grouped::__ANON__[Class/Accessor/Grouped.pm:810] shortly followed by Class::C3::Componentised::ensure_class_loaded
18:46 * chris_n    figures that zebraidx should fail gracefully at least
18:47 chris_n      but then, come to think of it, zebra never did anything graceful anyway
18:51 drojf        chris_n: you got switched to dom while you actually use grs indexing
18:52 drojf        see bug 13396
18:52 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13396 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , koha-rebuild-zebra: Couldn't open collection.abs error after 3.18 package update
18:53 * KotH       gets the impression that his perl is borked
18:54 drojf        chris_n: add to your koha-conf.xml the lines
18:54 drojf        <zebra_bib_index_mode>grs1</zebra_bib_index_mode>
18:54 drojf        <zebra_auth_index_mode>grs1</zebra_auth_index_mode>
18:54 drojf        <zebra_lockdir>/var/lock/koha/__KOHASITE__</zebra_lockdir>
18:54 drojf        <use_zebra_facets>0</use_zebra_facets>
18:54 drojf        (change the _KOHASITE_ )
18:59 chris_n      drojf++
18:59 chris_n      interestingly enough, this was an update of a dev install rather than a package
18:59 chris_n      apparently this got messed up when I re-ran Makefile.PL
19:32 * chris_n    was bragging on Koha to the county library when they pointed me to their "new" system
19:32 chris_n      I looked and this is what I saw: http://nccardinal.org/eg/opac/home
19:32 chris_n      :-)
19:32 * chris_n    pokes gmcharlt
19:34 cait         :)
19:42 wizzyrea     chris_n: I guess we can't be too mad about that.
19:43 chris_n      no, it was just a very hilarious coincidence!
19:44 wizzyrea     feels like that issue with GRS1 should be fixed.
19:44 chris_n      there's nothing like heralding the benefits of OSS software only to be told "we're there" :-)
19:44 * chris_n    agrees on the GRS1 foo
19:59 chris_n      more index problems :-P
19:59 chris_n      Entity: line 109: parser error : Extra content at the end of the document
19:59 chris_n      <record
19:59 chris_n      ^
19:59 chris_n      but a quick look at the marcxml fields in biblioitems seems to show everything is intact
20:12 wizzyrea     weird.
20:22 rangi        germs
20:22 rangi        germs?
20:22 wahanui      well, germs is http://i.imgur.com/5UfhT.jpg
20:22 rangi        germs?
20:22 wahanui      rumour has it germs is http://i.imgur.com/5UfhT.jpg
20:22 rangi        germs?
20:22 wahanui      Germs originated in Germany, before rapidly spreading throughout the rest of the world.
20:23 cait         hmpf?
20:23 rangi        hehe
20:23 rangi        kristina has germs
20:31 cait         hmpf?
20:32 wizzyrea     poor kristina.
20:33 ibeardslee   She must have partied too hard on Wednesday
20:34 ibeardslee   A number of other people seemed to have pickup up illnesses yesterday.
20:37 rangi        she didnt even go to the party, she did some work til about 7 then went home cos she had to do a conference call thing to the US early next morning
20:37 rangi        so, not partying enough i think is the problem
20:38 cait         wow
21:14 KotH         btw: does anyone run koha on an x86 (ie 32bit)?
21:14 * KotH       is getting the impression he stumbled over a perl bug that only manifests itself on x86
22:34 cbrannon     Is bugzilla slow today?
22:34 wnickc       cbrannon: thanks for that reports info, I just kept banging my head against that %5 with variables
22:35 cbrannon     wnickc: no problem
22:36 wnickc       I get it enough to make it work now, but it still feels like magic
22:37 cbrannon     sql=magic
22:37 cbrannon     Actually sql>magic
22:39 cbrannon     wnickc: how well do you know the inventory tool?
22:39 wnickc       I mean, we've talked at a few parties, but we don't hang out
22:39 dcook        I'd have to go with magic>sql :p
22:39 cbrannon     haha
22:39 cbrannon     :)
22:40 cbrannon     wnickc: Have you used the tool?
22:40 wnickc       I have dabbled, we actually decided to just check in every item because it didn't have the functions we wanted when we tried
22:41 wnickc       but it has been Kyled and should be better now
22:41 cbrannon     "Kyled" - I like that.
22:41 cait         good night all :)
22:46 wnickc       did you have a specific thing you were trying to do with it?
22:55 cbrannon     wnickc: trying to figure out the messages
22:56 dcook        message?
22:56 wahanui      hmmm... message is a warning not an error.
22:56 dcook        message is also the medium is the message
22:56 wahanui      okay, dcook.
22:56 dcook        message?
22:56 wahanui      hmmm... message is the medium is the message
22:56 dcook        damn
22:56 dcook        I did that all wrong :p
22:56 dcook        forget message
22:56 wahanui      dcook: I forgot message
22:56 dcook        message?
22:56 dcook        medium?
22:56 dcook        medium is the message
22:56 dcook        medium?
22:56 wahanui      medium is the message
22:56 dcook        I don't even buy it, but it sounds good
22:57 wnickc       :)
22:57 dcook        Hmm, looks like Windows 8.1 has crapped out again...
22:57 wnickc       If I had a nickel...
23:02 cbrannon     nickel?
23:02 cbrannon     nickel is the message
23:46 cbrannon     Has anyone tried http://www.libraryextension.com/?  Pretty cool.
23:57 dac          cbrannon: Interesting. I wonder how it works...