Time Nick Message 09:52 * magnuse waves silently 09:53 * cait waves back quietly 14:34 tcohen morning 14:35 cait morning tcohen 14:44 tcohen how is your weekend cait? 14:49 cait busy :) 14:49 cait travelling tomorrow and still lots to do 14:49 cait and yours? 14:49 wahanui i heard yours was better actually 14:53 WNickC Hi all 14:53 WNickC cait, can I ask a question about bug 10391 14:53 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10391 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , specify due date remaining even if not selected 14:59 cait sure? 14:59 WNickC Just wondering if the clear button should clear date when 'remember for session' is checked 15:00 WNickC currently you have to clear and then checkout a book to keep the date from reappearing 15:00 WNickC I didn't know if that was bug or feature 15:06 cait hm 15:06 cait and clear and unchecking the checkbox won't do it? 15:09 WNickC it will clear on the current screen, but if I load a new patron the date and box are filled again and I have to press clear and then checkout 15:10 WNickC so instead of setting it, using it for all patrons I need, then pressing clear 15:10 WNickC I have to set it, use it for all patrons needed, load th enext patron, clear, and checkout a book 15:16 cait i am not sure 15:16 cait i think it might not directly be a bug, but it sounds like an ergonomic issue 15:23 WNickC okay, I will add a comment to the bug, it's not a huge issue for us, but it didn't feel quite like expected behaviour 15:23 WNickC thanks 16:07 markvandenborre what port does the user interface (not the admin interface) for koha normally listen on? 16:08 markvandenborre (I'm using the deb packages as provided at koha-community.org 16:08 markvandenborre ) 16:14 markvandenborre I want to browse the catalog 16:14 markvandenborre I can see from zebra reindexing that there are a pile of records 16:14 markvandenborre but I get no search results at all 16:14 cait the opac normally is on 80 16:16 markvandenborre maybe it got confused because there is a web server already running there... 16:16 cait you need to deactivate the default site 16:17 markvandenborre yup, will do 16:17 markvandenborre btw, still trying to get catalog search to work 16:17 markvandenborre http://pastie.org/9162629 looks suspicious to me 16:17 markvandenborre it looks as if it is trying to index multiple times after an error the first time 16:18 markvandenborre and that that is the reason search is not working 16:18 markvandenborre any hints on debugging this on a lower level? 16:22 markvandenborre cait: thx, the user interface works perfectly now 16:22 markvandenborre well, except that I can't see anything in the catalog, and no search 16:29 cait it looks like you have a bad record 16:29 cait are you using unimarc or marc21? 16:35 cait markvandenborre? 16:35 wahanui well, markvandenborre is looking into a library system for a music academy 16:37 markvandenborre cait: unimarc 16:37 markvandenborre and this one is strange too 16:37 markvandenborre http://pastie.org/9162730 16:38 cait that feature is no really been maintained 16:38 markvandenborre I seem to create a table of records to be browsed 16:38 cait or hasn't been in a longer while 16:38 cait i ma not sure how it works 16:38 cait it's an extra feature 16:38 markvandenborre I want to see something in my catalog, quite desperately so even 16:38 markvandenborre I can search it perfectly fine using the 16:39 markvandenborre cataloging search in the administrative interface 16:39 markvandenborre but not at all using the normal searc 16:39 markvandenborre h 16:39 markvandenborre (also as an administrative user) 16:40 markvandenborre and I cannot even browse the catalog in any way it seems 16:40 cait hm the cataoguing search is something different 16:40 cait how did you create your records? 16:40 markvandenborre staged marc import 16:40 wahanui staged marc import is a good one to check 16:40 cait ok 16:40 cait did you complete the upload and the second step 16:40 cait ? 16:40 markvandenborre I think so, yesx 16:41 cait when you go to tools - manage staged import 16:41 cait what status does your import batch show there? 16:41 markvandenborre imported, 2702 records 16:41 markvandenborre (for the latest batch) 16:41 cait ok, imported is ok 16:42 cait how did you install koha? 16:42 markvandenborre debian squeeze packages on debian wheezy 16:42 markvandenborre (there were no wheezy packages available yet) 16:44 markvandenborre maybe I made some fundamental thinko 16:45 markvandenborre about the rather idiosyncratic way (no offense at all!!!) library systems might be layered 16:45 jcamins markvandenborre: it sounds like you still have MARC21 records in your UNIMARC database. 16:45 jcamins View one of the records from the Staged MARC Records screen, and paste the MARC into paste.koha-community.org 16:46 markvandenborre jcamins: you make me realise that the problem _might_ be 16:47 markvandenborre that I couldn't properly delete all "dirty" records from the unimarc database 16:47 jcamins How many records should you have? 16:47 markvandenborre I have 2 copies of the same dataset 16:47 markvandenborre one polluted one 16:47 markvandenborre and a cleanly unimarc one 16:48 markvandenborre is there a way to drop all of them and reimport? 16:49 jcamins Yeah, there's a faq on that somewhere. 16:49 jcamins faq? 16:49 wahanui faq is found at http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/ 16:49 jcamins Wait, no, appendix to the manual. 16:49 jcamins Oh, wait, yeah, FAQ. 16:49 jcamins Under Installing/Upgrading. 16:51 jcamins Okay, better go grocery shopping before my phone call. 16:51 jcamins Good luck. 16:52 markvandenborre hm, something is wrong with that faq it seems, but thx anyway! 16:52 markvandenborre (a lot) 16:52 jcamins Use DELETE FROM, not TRUNCATE. 16:52 * cait nods 16:52 jcamins You have a newer version of MySQL. 16:53 jcamins DELETE FROM is slower, but works on all versions of MySQL/MariaDB. 16:53 markvandenborre it mentions foreign key constraints 16:53 jcamins Anyway, I have two hours to go grocery shopping and get back on weekend trains, so good luck. 16:53 markvandenborre ah, thx 16:54 markvandenborre good luck! 16:54 markvandenborre if you're on uk trains, you will need it! 16:58 * markvandenborre is reading up about authority versus bibliographic records 17:02 markvandenborre if I understand this correctly, the authority record is a "parent" kind of record 17:02 cait hm not really 17:02 markvandenborre with the bibliographic record describing more a kind of a "copy" of a book? 17:02 cait well.. normally if we talk about children/parents i woudl tink of sth else 17:03 cait authority records are used to control terms 17:03 markvandenborre ok, but since we are talking one physical library with only one copy of any book in it ever 17:03 cait like person 17:03 cait s 17:03 cait you can create a authority record for ... a person 17:03 markvandenborre wikipedia about this? 17:03 cait and then it can include all different name variations 17:03 cait like pseudonyms 17:04 cait and that can be used to make seraching for a person more useful 17:04 cait authorities are optional 17:04 cait bilbiographic records and items is probably what you think about 17:04 markvandenborre ok, so I need this to bibliographic records 17:05 cait the bibliographic record is the general description, the item is what your library has... with its specifics 17:05 cait call number, barcode, opac notes... whatever 17:05 cait one bibliographic record can have n items 17:06 markvandenborre ok, so now we're here: http://pastie.org/9162801 17:06 markvandenborre 2702 records seem to have been imported fine 17:06 markvandenborre well, staged for import 17:07 cait now you need to import them 17:07 cait into the catalog 17:08 markvandenborre did that, http://pastie.org/9162809 17:08 markvandenborre now I guess I have to explicitly make zebra index the thing 17:09 cait no ou shouldn't have to 17:09 cait it should happen sometime in the next 5 minutes 17:09 cait if your koha is set up correctly 17:10 markvandenborre I did it explicitly, to get some feedback without going into /var/log 17:10 markvandenborre http://pastie.org/9162817 17:10 markvandenborre is what I got 17:10 markvandenborre something seems to be wrong somewhere there... 17:11 cait yeah that does look like a problem with your records :( 17:11 cait i am no unimarc expert 17:11 cait you might want to come back during the week 17:12 markvandenborre ok, so the best thing to do would probably use marc21? 17:12 markvandenborre almost everyone here seems to be using that... 17:13 markvandenborre could that be useful? 17:14 markvandenborre I seem to be using a rather exotic setup compared to other people in this channel, and this is only a virtual machine that should be a piece of cake to rebuild 17:15 markvandenborre and get working 17:16 cait i am not sure why you picked unimarc in the first place 17:16 cait best is to use what the libraries in your area are using 17:18 markvandenborre that's why I picked unimarc in the first place 17:18 markvandenborre research seems to suggest that most of continental Europe uses that 17:18 markvandenborre but it's really for such a small local library 17:19 cait hm that's not true 17:19 cait germany for example never used unimarc and switched to marc21 17:19 markvandenborre Flanders, Belgium 17:19 cait france and spain use unimarc i think, not sur eabout other countries 17:19 markvandenborre Dutch speaking northern 55% of Belgium 17:21 cait hm not sure about there 17:21 markvandenborre just looked it up 17:21 markvandenborre marc21 17:22 markvandenborre http://www.bibnet.be/portaal/Bibnet/Open-Vlacc/Open_Vlacc (in Dutch) 17:22 cait but you will have to redo your records 17:22 cait becauase the fields are all different 17:22 markvandenborre redoing the mappings you mean, indeed 17:23 markvandenborre there's only six or seven fields, so that's manageable 17:23 cait and you need to recreate your instance for marc21 i think 17:23 cait it would be easiest 17:23 markvandenborre ah, right, I could keep the virtual machine and the koha installation 17:24 markvandenborre and just throw out the instance and create a new one you mean 17:24 cait yeah and make sure it's configured to marc21 17:25 markvandenborre cool, should save me some time 18:09 WNickC so, some faqs mention git send-email, but git is not understanding that command, I assume I am missing something obvious 18:19 WNickC Oh, maybe i shoudl install git-email 18:19 WNickC smh 18:20 * markvandenborre is looking for a marc21 code where I could put the instrument(s) for a piece of sheet music 18:20 markvandenborre unimarc has something like that, but it seems marc21 has not 18:20 cait WNickC: yep - you'd need to install it separately 18:20 cait but sending hte email is no longer strictly required 18:20 markvandenborre unless I am missing something here 18:20 cait if you attach your patches to the bug that's ok 18:20 gmcharlt markvandenborre: the 382 18:21 * cait waves at gmcharlt 18:21 gmcharlt markvandenborre: http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd382.html 18:21 gmcharlt hi cait 18:22 markvandenborre thx gmcharlt 18:25 markvandenborre here's another special one that is hard to look for 18:26 markvandenborre the library had its own utterly inconsistent and inconsistently applied numbering system for sheet music 18:26 markvandenborre where should I dump that info? 18:26 markvandenborre I guess into some kind of note in the 500 range, but maybe there's better options? 18:26 WNickC if I submit a ptach should I also take the bug? 18:27 markvandenborre (I already need to dump some other things there) 18:27 cait WNickC: if you fix it yep assign it to yourself 18:28 * markvandenborre is looking, but nog finding anything useful immediately, especially as he needs to abuse "general notes" for something else 18:29 WNickC done, terrifying, now I'll go read mor ewiki so I ask less silly questions 18:35 * markvandenborre is looking at http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd521.html and happy to have found 521 2 a 18:35 markvandenborre any idea how to feed that to csvtomarc.pl? 18:35 markvandenborre 521_2_a? 18:35 markvandenborre or just 521_a? 18:38 markvandenborre ok, that was a stupid question of mine, sorry 18:38 markvandenborre I'll just experiment 18:41 jcamins I'm not sure csvtomarc does indicators. 18:44 markvandenborre it seems it doesn't, no harm done 18:45 markvandenborre I've been looking really hard now for a place to dump our inconsistent existing (sometimes non-existing) per-book code 18:45 markvandenborre any suggestions about that? 18:45 jcamins You might consider item. 18:45 jcamins *an item 18:45 jcamins Or a 001. 18:45 * markvandenborre looks at 001 (item would further complicate things it seems) 18:46 jcamins Or a 090. 18:46 markvandenborre err, 0xx only starts with 010? 18:46 jcamins Or 084. 18:46 jcamins Right, because 001 is 00x. 18:47 jcamins Yes, there is a reason, no you don't want to know it. 18:47 markvandenborre :-) 18:48 markvandenborre 090n seems the most free form I can imagine 18:48 markvandenborre thx for the hint 18:54 * markvandenborre hapy 18:54 markvandenborre happy even 18:54 markvandenborre things are working as they should 18:54 markvandenborre thank you all! 18:57 markvandenborre especially to cait, jcamins, talljoy and gmcharlt (hope I'm not forgetting anyone) 18:57 markvandenborre this will really make a difference for a cash strapped small music academy 19:01 markvandenborre a rather off topic question: 19:01 markvandenborre does anyone know if imslp.org has a marc21 metadata set? 19:02 markvandenborre it would be _so_ incredibly cool if we could integrate that into the school library 19:07 * markvandenborre is so stupid... feeding himself feature requests... 19:19 cait I'd recommend one step after the other ;) 19:21 markvandenborre :-) 19:22 markvandenborre in any case, I'm really happy about this step 19:22 markvandenborre and my colleagues will be too 19:22 markvandenborre if you think what they have to suffer now... 19:23 markvandenborre 4 different iTunes versions without any central metadata management 19:23 markvandenborre pdf documents stored on a file server that has been dying since 2010 19:23 markvandenborre on many machines the file server authentication is taking over a minute for some reason 19:24 markvandenborre that and more... 19:24 markvandenborre and in a bit over a week, they get a new server, with a working sheet music repository that they can reliably search 19:31 cait :) 19:37 cait @wunder cologne 19:37 huginn cait: Error: No such location could be found. 19:37 cait @wunder Köln 19:37 huginn cait: Error: No such location could be found. 19:37 cait hm 19:37 cait @wunder Köln, Germany 19:37 huginn cait: Error: No such location could be found. 19:42 markvandenborre @wunder Koeln, Deutschland 19:42 huginn markvandenborre: Error: No such location could be found. 19:42 markvandenborre cait: pity, no cigar 19:43 cait @wunder Konstanz 19:43 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 16.4°C (9:40 PM CEST on May 10, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady). 19:43 cait silly bot :) 19:43 * markvandenborre grins 19:43 markvandenborre I am looking for info on cover images now 19:43 markvandenborre I (will) have a pile of digital documents in 856u 19:44 markvandenborre and for most sheet music, no ISMN yet 19:44 cait i think most cover services work only with isbn :( but maybe you are lucky 19:44 * markvandenborre is naively hoping that there is a way for koha to pull the first page from that 19:45 markvandenborre 856u pdf -> first page as cover image 19:45 cait ah no 19:45 markvandenborre rendered as png in browser 19:45 cait koha won't do that 19:45 cait you'd have to create that yourself as a local cover image 19:45 markvandenborre ok 19:45 cait koha will only show a link to it 19:46 markvandenborre unless it can be pulled from an ISMN/ISBN service like librarything/amazon/...? 19:46 markvandenborre (the cover image) 19:46 cait yeah currently, oyu can also upload local cover images 19:46 cait but koha can't do magic from the urls :) 19:46 markvandenborre ok 19:47 markvandenborre can the local cover image also be a url? 19:47 * markvandenborre is looking at cover image docs 19:47 markvandenborre for cover image docs 19:48 cait look at the system prferences for catalog enrichment 19:48 cait I think there is a way t omake an image link in 856 display the image 19:48 cait and maybe a sys ref search for 856 19:50 markvandenborre cait: won't work, we really need the pdf to be 856u... 19:50 cait 856 is repeatable 19:51 cait you can have multiple links in every record 19:52 markvandenborre ah, cool 19:54 markvandenborre I'm thinking about it should be trivial to write a small apache rule 19:54 markvandenborre that makes a request for the pdf and generates a cover image on the fly 19:55 markvandenborre lib.academy.blah/musicbook.pdf would grab the pdf 19:56 markvandenborre and lib.academy.blah/musicbook.pdf.png (or something similar) would pull the first page from the pdf, turn it into a png and feed it back to the browser 19:58 markvandenborre now I need to look at the interface for editors 20:03 markvandenborre right now, I have a very limited subset of marc21 in use: code (090_n), titel (245_a), componist (100_a), instrument(382_a), graad (521_2_a), type (500_a) 20:05 markvandenborre now we do want to add basic extra metadata of course, especially ISMN/ISBN 20:05 markvandenborre but that's about it 20:05 markvandenborre (apart from 856u for pdf and cover images) 20:05 markvandenborre is there a way to dumb down the interface for adding content as much as possible? 20:07 cait yes 20:08 cait marc frameworks 20:08 wahanui marc frameworks is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/MARC_frameworks 20:08 cait youcan hide all fields youdon't want to use 20:09 markvandenborre cool, thx 20:34 markvandenborre cait: I see in my notes from the last time I tackled that 20:34 markvandenborre something about a column "hidden" in the ods export 20:35 cait yes 20:35 markvandenborre where some magic values are possible 20:35 cait well kind of yes 20:35 markvandenborre it seems there is a -6, -1, 0, 5 or 7 20:35 cait what I'd do is set a field to the value you want and then look up which number that is in the ods 20:35 markvandenborre and -5 was - according to my notes- idden 20:35 cait that sounds about right 20:35 markvandenborre hidden 20:36 markvandenborre in order not to have to fiddle with it all, I think I'll copy paste it all to hidden 20:36 markvandenborre and unhide a few 20:36 markvandenborre the ones that i need 20:36 markvandenborre and see where that gets me 20:37 markvandenborre instead of manually redoing every single of 3961 fields 20:37 markvandenborre that would not be my definition of fun... 20:45 markvandenborre hm, that doesn't seem to hide everything... 20:52 cait where are you looking? 20:52 cait and I think you need to hide the field and the subfields 21:05 markvandenborre I found my way through it 21:06 markvandenborre I set the tab to -1 (ignore) for the unneeded ones, and to 0 for the relevant ones 21:06 markvandenborre and I set "hidden" to -5 for the unneeded ones and to 0 for the relevant ones 21:07 markvandenborre that did the trick 21:08 markvandenborre do you know if it will hurt anything if I change the description string for theses specific marc21 fields in my custom framework? 21:08 markvandenborre I'd like to change them to something more descriptive for our context, and to Dutch 21:12 cait no, that should not be a problem 21:31 markvandenborre is there a way to change the default framework that people adding or modifying records use? 21:31 markvandenborre or should I just copy my framework changes into the default framework and hope for the best? 21:57 markvandenborre hm, I try to add a new record to my catalog, but marc21 field 100a is locked for some reason 21:57 markvandenborre all the others work no problem 21:57 markvandenborre so I can't add the composer's name to the record 21:57 cait that's because you are supposed to create an authority record for it 21:57 cait using the plugin at the end of the field 21:58 cait you can deactivate that, check the manual - if you want to keep it more simple, but authorities can be a nice tihng 21:58 markvandenborre I figured out more or less that part, but our secretary is really really humble in the way she can interact with computers 21:59 markvandenborre and I don't want to add any layer of complexity there 21:59 markvandenborre or I will end up cleaning up the mess 21:59 markvandenborre after her 21:59 cait you can work without authorities - might create more mess tho with typos and the like :) 22:01 markvandenborre I will rely on my colleagues (users!) to iron those out 22:01 markvandenborre the comments function (it doesn't seem to be working, but I'll get to that later) 22:01 cait for example there might be all kind of different spellings for tschaikowsky (and not sure that is a valid one) 22:01 markvandenborre seems to be really nice for that 22:02 cait an authority record helps to improve search in those areas 22:02 markvandenborre doesn't zebra do a kind of fuzzy search already? 22:02 cait yeah 22:02 cait it does :) 22:02 cait but it doesn't catch them all i think 22:03 markvandenborre obviously 22:03 jcamins But it won't help if you use a spelling that isn't within one or two letters. 22:03 jcamins So Tschaikovsky and Chaikovskii definitely won't be found. 22:03 jcamins And, actually, the fuzzy search has other issues. 22:07 markvandenborre I do see the added value of that approach in many contexts, but not here... 22:13 markvandenborre I seem to find BiblioAddsAuthorities and AutoCreateAuthorities in the prefs 22:13 cait markvandenborre: it's a setting int he bilbiographic framework 22:13 cait faq? 22:13 wahanui faq is found at http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/ 22:13 cait i think there is an entry on how to do it in the faq 22:19 markvandenborre just changed the right setting, thx 22:19 markvandenborre BiblioAddsAuthorities it was 22:19 cait hm that won't deactivate it tho 22:19 cait that will add automatically i think 22:20 markvandenborre no, that would need autocreateauthorities to be on 22:21 markvandenborre as far as I understand the manual 22:21 cait ahhm 22:21 cait ok :) 22:21 markvandenborre BiblioAddsAuthorities allow 22:21 markvandenborre AutoCreateAuthorities disallow 22:21 markvandenborre and there should be none of that kind of pollution 22:24 markvandenborre thx all, and good night