Time  Nick          Message
00:17 mtompset      Greetings, talljoy.
00:17 talljoy       yo mtompset
00:22 wizzyrea      mtompset: acquisitions handles money and records of what has been ordered and from whom, cataloguing is the last step of that.
00:22 eythian       mtompset: acquisitions is acquiring, cataloguing is cataloguing.
00:22 wizzyrea      if that makes sense
00:24 mtompset      But doesn't receiving an acquisition actually catalog it?
00:25 mtompset      (inside the acquisitions section)
00:27 wizzyrea      cataloguing an item is part of the acquisitions workflow, yes
00:27 wizzyrea      but they are not dependent
00:27 wizzyrea      you can catalogue an item without going through acquisitions.
00:28 wizzyrea      I think there are people who use acquisitions but don't use it to catalogue as well, though that might be a mad scheme.
00:31 mtompset      Okay. I think I understand. Frankly, acquisitions is a horribly ugly process for a person who has never tried it before.
00:32 eythian       it is a bit of a heavyweight process.
00:34 wizzyrea      yep, it's special
00:37 mtompset      I think the teacher double talk word for it is... gifted. ;)
00:53 tcohen        decent hotel in london? for a couple?
01:04 eythian       Look at the reviews on e.g. booking.com
01:04 eythian       I've generally found that sort of thing reliable.
01:06 rangi         yeah, trivago.com is quite handy too
01:06 * dcook       perks up
01:06 rangi         pulls up all the deals, and has reviews
01:08 dcook         Going to London, tcohen?
01:09 eythian       there're also too many hotels in London for a useful recommendation :) I've only stayed at two, one was good because it was a week for free (a friend was the housekeeper/barmaid) and the other was just overnight.
01:09 dcook         I've only stayed at hostels in London (other than a hotel once years ago as a student)
01:09 rangi         dcook: http://junkee.com/tony-abbott-slammed-by-greens-senator-in-jaw-dropping-speech-of-the-year-we-want-our-country-back/30146  <=== awesome
01:10 dcook         rangi: I keep meaning to watch that...
01:10 rangi         this bit is my fave
01:10 rangi         “Prime Minister, you are welcome to take your heartless, racist exploitation of people’s fears and ram it as far from Western Australia as your taxpayer-funded travel entitlements can take you,”
01:10 dcook         That's the tagline that I've seen so far :)
01:11 dcook         I can't bring myself to read the publications where he claims to be a feminist
01:11 dcook         Just nothing to be gained by consuming that media
01:12 dcook         For non-Australians: the dude is quite the misogynist.
01:12 dcook         (dcook likes actual feminists)
01:19 tcohen        dcook: yes! one of our honeymoon places
01:19 dcook         tcohen: Ah, I had the feeling that might be the case! Exciting! When do you go?
01:20 tcohen        we're going to several places
01:20 tcohen        beggining march 23
01:21 tcohen        they all seem quite small and expensive
01:21 tcohen        just as if the Holiday Inn costs the same
01:24 dcook         That...was a great video. Go, Scott Ludlam.
01:25 dcook         London is a tough one :/
01:26 tcohen        dcook: indeed!
01:30 dcook         Perhaps ashimema might have some ideas?
01:30 dcook         I think he lives in/just outside of London?
01:30 dcook         I don't know why, but everytime I think about a few of you folks, I think of Pirate Pizza and beer
01:30 dcook         Also tcohen is just awesome in the arcade :p
01:31 tcohen        heh
01:32 tcohen        i performed in the motorbikes, i recall
01:32 dcook         You really did!
01:32 tcohen        ashimema: around?
01:33 rangi         its about 2.30am
01:33 rangi         so i doubt it
01:33 dcook         Hmm, not working hard enough then!
01:33 tcohen        d*mn sleepers
01:33 dcook         Have you been before, tcohen?
01:34 tcohen        no dcook, first timer!
01:34 tcohen        i've only been to madrid, barcelona and roland-garros actually
01:34 dcook         That's so exciting!
01:34 dcook         Roland-garros?
01:35 tcohen        heh, i took a train at the airport, that combined with the subway took me to roland-garros
01:38 rangi         Los niños comen pan
01:38 rangi         thats about all i can remember from duolingo
01:38 rangi         i figure i can get by telling argentinians that boys eat bread
01:38 rangi         'what would you like to eat?" "the boys eat bread"
01:39 rangi         'where is your hotel?' "the boys eat bread"
01:39 tcohen        heh
01:39 tcohen        i can teach you a few
01:39 tcohen        "quiero un lomito"
01:39 tcohen        -> http://www.betos.com.ar/
01:39 eythian       "where are my pants"
01:40 tcohen        the taste of lomitos in Cordoba is awesome
01:40 rangi         ohh
01:40 rangi         that does look good
01:40 rangi         i can always remember ham and eggs
01:40 rangi         jamon and huevo
01:41 rangi         but i always have an urge to pronounce jamon as if i was michael jackson
01:42 tcohen        ham-ón
01:42 rangi         yep
01:42 tcohen        eythian: pants == underwear?
01:42 tcohen        "¿donde estan mis calzones?"
01:42 dcook         acqui = here (I believe)
01:43 tcohen        accented i
01:43 tcohen        spelled "aquí"
01:43 dcook         Yeah, I should've used my charmap
01:45 rangi         https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNIJsuNk7SVkP8XugBcliXfeWw0SG0vxWCzlHhmQIg4Q3eCOo82g
01:45 dcook         I think aquí, pulpo, corazón, cerveza...might be the only words I know outside numbers
01:46 dcook         tcohen: But yeah I think Brits/Aussies/Kiwis might call underwear pants?
01:46 * dcook       isn't sure about that one
01:46 dcook         I should probably clarify before I keep talking about pants...
01:46 rangi         normally call them underpants
01:46 eythian       tcohen: in NZ English, it's ambiguous.
01:46 tcohen        heh
01:47 eythian       usually identifiable from the context, or being specific :)
01:47 dcook         It made me wonder about wizzyrea and co saying stuff is 'pants' :p
01:47 dcook         Perhaps that's a third meaning?
01:47 dcook         Damned polysemy
01:47 eythian       http://www.reddit.com/r/thatpicofnzfromspace
01:48 rangi         http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/pants
01:51 dcook         Good one, rangi
02:00 jcamins       tcohen: base2stay.
02:01 * tcohen      is looking for it, thanks jcamins!
02:04 mtompset      [off] Actually on a bizarre side comment about pants. I figured out why underwear is called pants. Think about the feminine panties.
02:06 mtompset      wizzyrea: Are you the one to talk to about tweaking a www.koha-community.org page?
02:06 rangi         whttps://twitter.com/ricep0d/status/441385077193183232/photo/1
02:07 rangi         hmm without the w
02:07 rangi         https://twitter.com/ricep0d/status/441385077193183232/photo/1
02:08 eythian       mtompset: pantaloons
02:08 mtompset      Haven't thought that out, eythian. :P
02:09 mtompset      I was wondering who might be able to help get a tweak to http://koha-community.org/download-koha/ as per bug 11830's discussion. Or if perhaps, there's a better solution still?
02:10 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11830 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, In Discussion , Document disk space requirements for git install on Ubuntu
02:10 eythian       via French, from an 1580's Italian comedy character "Pantaloun" who wore tight trousers over skinny legs. Originally San Pantaleone, the name coming from Greek and meaning "all compassionate"
02:10 eythian       don't you know your history, mtompset?
02:10 mtompset      eythian: Nope. I'm a computer person, not a history buff.
02:24 mtompset      eythian, anyone? Any idea on how to trigger a case for bug 11797? I'm pretty sure this will fix it, but I don't know how to trigger it.
02:24 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11797 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Needs Signoff , auth_finder.pl: Odd number of elements in anonymous hash
02:26 eythian       your else condition looks fishy given the if right below it, or is it doing something like not emptying out the variable, in which case it should be properly scoped?
02:28 eythian       ok, $subfield_to_report is badly scoped, but I can't see how that would ever get an odd number of elements.
02:28 eythian       Maybe if $field was undefined.
02:30 mtompset      1049...
02:30 mtompset      if the first letter does not exist in the key.
02:31 eythian       I think that the best way to fix it is to move $subfields_to_report into the foreach, fix the reference to it near the end of the function (which makes no sense), and I have no opinion on 162 because I know nothing about it.
02:31 mtompset      And that could be possible if 180, etc. came before a 162.
02:31 eythian       never rely on order in MARC
02:32 mtompset      which is why I gave the scenario.
02:32 eythian       and what is "1049"?
02:32 mtompset      because the 180 would set the variable to 'v....'
02:32 mtompset      and then '162' wouldn't change it.
02:32 eythian       the point is more that having it scoped properly is the best fix
02:32 mtompset      but there is no 'v' for a 162.
02:32 eythian       because it fixes a bad smell.
02:33 eythian       yeah, but it doesn't matter if there's no 'v'
02:33 eythian       oh
02:33 eythian       it does matter if an empty list is returned.
02:33 mtompset      which is why I put else.
02:33 eythian       Never depend on having particular fields or subfields in marc
02:33 eythian       the report should be done, and then that should be tested.
02:34 eythian       because if you get no output from it, you're still going to have issues.
02:34 mtompset      no, because the second 'else' uses 'a'.
02:34 eythian       e.g. if I make a record with only 'u' fields, that'll break this
02:35 mtompset      Yes, that is true.
02:35 mtompset      but the list needs to be comprehensive.
02:35 eythian       it's still assuming that the data it's looking over is correct, which is invariably a bad idea.
02:35 eythian       that doesn't matter.
02:35 eythian       as it stands, it's got a fair bit of code-smell
02:36 mtompset      actually, if the field doesn't exist, I think the $field->subfield('u') would return '';
02:36 tcohen        night #koha, thanks for the help eythian
02:36 eythian       later
02:36 mtompset      good night, tcohen.
02:37 tcohen        night mtompset
02:37 eythian       mtompset: and what does it return if you ask it for a subfield that doesn't exist?
02:37 mtompset      eythian: And how would you scope the variable differently?
02:37 eythian       err.
02:37 eythian       I'd scope it tighter.
02:38 mtompset      That's what I believe 'u' is... non-existent.
02:38 eythian       Scope everything as tight as possible.
02:38 mtompset      how?
02:38 eythian       mtompset: but what does it return in this case?
02:38 eythian       mtompset: by moving it into the foreach
02:38 mtompset      oh... undef.
02:38 eythian       and fixing the weird reference to it later in the function.
02:39 eythian       it's valid to have an undef in a hashref, so that's maybe not the source of your "odd number of items" thing.
02:39 mtompset      moving it into the foreach?
02:39 eythian       well, right now it's outside the foreach.
02:39 mtompset      foreach ... { my blah; ... }?
02:40 eythian       no
02:40 eythian       my $subfields_to_report;
02:40 eythian       foreach my $field ($record->field('1..')) {
02:40 eythian       becomes
02:40 eythian       foreach my $field ($record->field('1..')) {
02:40 eythian       my $subfields_to_report;
02:40 mtompset      That's what I said, but used blah. :P
02:40 eythian       oh right
02:40 eythian       so you did
02:41 eythian       but, you'll have to deal with the spurious reference to it a few lines below all this.
02:41 mtompset      well, on goes the chauffeur hat. I'll be back.
02:48 rangi         *sigh*
02:53 eythian       http://instagram.com/p/lL1K4xGmvZ/  <-- OBEY HOLLYWOOD
03:04 mtompset      What's the sign for, rangi?
03:06 mtompset      Ewwww! 1130? Is that what you were talking about eythian?
03:06 eythian       huh?
03:07 mtompset      "but, you'll have to deal with the spurious reference to it a few lines below all this."
03:07 mtompset      Oops, I meant *sigh* not sign.
03:08 mtompset      Oh... someone not reading the manual?
03:09 rangi         yep just the usual
03:09 eythian       I can't talk in line numbers as I have a different version checked out.
03:09 eythian       But, it's the only other reference to subfields_to_report in the file
03:12 mtompset      It's the weird one line reference in the middle of a 6.. foreach.
03:13 mtompset      Oops 880.
03:13 mtompset      I don't get how that code even works!
03:22 eythian       I bet it doesn't
03:29 mtompset      880 is a weird field. Trying to understand it.
03:32 mtompset      well, I think the term => blah is pushed out in a way that it used by koha-tmpl/opac-tmpl/prog/en/includes/opac-authorities.inc
03:36 mtompset      880$w?! WHAT?! How do we even know 'w' is used?
03:39 eythian       never assume
03:40 mtompset      That 880 code is rather... convoluted and strange.
03:42 mtompset      oh! It assumes the 880 is only linked to 4xx or 5xx fields!
03:46 eythian       bag: I now have a very preliminary "title starts with" type search working. Now it'll be easier to do the rest.
03:55 * Oak         waves
04:02 eythian       wajasu: patch is <reply>http://i.imgur.com/bfHvGkj.jpg
04:03 eythian       err
04:03 eythian       wahanui: patch is <reply>http://i.imgur.com/bfHvGkj.jpg
04:03 wahanui       ...but patch is pretty old now, good luck...
04:03 eythian       no wahanui, patch is <reply>http://i.imgur.com/bfHvGkj.jpg
04:03 wahanui       okay, eythian.
04:08 mtompset      Something like that, eythian. :)
04:08 mtompset      Hi, Oak.
04:12 bag           awesome eythian
04:23 Oak           hello mtompset :)
04:35 * eythian     wonders if there's any documentation for how the QueryBuilder is supposed to work around anywhere.
04:40 * mtompset    laughs.
04:40 mtompset      Not likely, is my guess.
04:41 eythian       that sucks when you want to implement something that matches the same pattern.
04:42 mtompset      Okay... figured out a way to trigger the BuildSummary function. Now running through all our authority data. Hopefully the data point that triggered the error that got me looking at 11797 happens.
04:52 dcook         eythian: I used to have a vague idea
04:52 dcook         Wait, not QueryBuilder
04:53 dcook         What is QueryBuilder?
04:53 eythian       heh
04:53 dcook         http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp0vr1n25u4
04:53 dcook         ^
04:53 eythian       it's intended to be an interface between user input and whatever search engine you're using
04:54 dcook         For the logs...
04:54 dcook         Vivian Jaffe: Have you ever transcended space and time?
04:54 dcook         Albert Markovski: Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about.
04:55 dcook         eythian: That would be handy
04:55 eythian       it would be handier if it were well documented.
04:56 dcook         ^
05:07 mtompset      I guess it didn't like that for loop. ;)
05:11 mtompset      let's try again. :) It's only 2700ish seconds.
05:39 eythian       @wunder nzwn
05:39 huginn        eythian: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 16.0°C (6:30 PM NZDT on March 06, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Rising).
05:42 mtompset      woo hoo! triggered the error...
05:42 mtompset      bad news... don't know which authority number did it.
05:42 wajasu        KABOOM
05:45 mtompset      YAY! I am thankful that WGET was timestamping. :)
05:45 mtompset      found the busted authority record that generates our odd hash error.
05:50 wajasu        cool
05:56 mtompset      eythian: It's a non-existent field error. It seems that blah => undef is causing the problem.
05:57 mtompset      but it isn't 162.
05:57 mtompset      It's 180.
05:57 mtompset      We have 180$x, not a 180$v.
05:57 mtompset      And the first letter is assumed to be the one to build from.
06:00 mtompset      Well, maybe it isn't undef? It definitely is the hemain line, like I suspected.
06:07 mtompset      "If no matching subfields are found, undef is returned in a scalar context and an empty list in a list context."
06:08 mtompset      That's the problem.
06:09 mtompset      perl guesses the context wrong!
06:41 mtompset      Woo hoo! Found another way to trigger the same error. :)
06:42 wajasu        nice. u trigger happy?
06:45 mtompset      No. I just forgot how to trigger the first way, and I found the second way first. ;)
06:54 wajasu        are you on the verge of greatness with what you are debugging?  or can you resume discussing the search behavior for lost/hidden items.
07:07 wajasu        i think i know what's needed.
07:13 mtompset      It's 2:12AM...
07:13 mtompset      I'm not quite in the right frame of mind to discuss searching. Sorry.
07:13 wajasu        game over. for me as well.  got a lead  on something.  will look into it tomorrow.
07:14 mtompset      See you later today, perhaps. :)
07:14 mtompset      Have a great day (24 hour period), #koha.
07:24 * magnuse     waves
07:32 magnuse       @wunder marseille
07:32 huginn        magnuse: The current temperature in Realtor, CABRIES, France is 1.6°C (8:32 AM CET on March 06, 2014). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 65%. Dew Point: -4.0°C. Windchill: 2.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Rising).
07:32 magnuse       hah, i think i can top that
07:32 magnuse       @wunder boo
07:32 huginn        magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 6.0°C (8:20 AM CET on March 06, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Windchill: 1.0°C. Pressure: 29.53 in 1000 hPa (Steady).
07:32 magnuse       hah!
07:33 cait          hm marseille has to catch up to my packing plans
07:34 cait          bbl :)
07:37 reiveune      hello
07:43 marcelr       hi #koha
07:53 magnuse       hiya laurence reiveune marcelr
07:53 reiveune      salut magnuse
07:53 marcelr       hi magnuse reiveune
07:54 reiveune      salut marcelr :)
07:55 laurence      helle magnuse
07:57 magnuse       hællæ!
08:02 alex_a        bonjour
08:04 Joubu         hello
08:04 wahanui       niihau, Joubu
08:12 cait          @wunder Marseille
08:12 huginn        cait: The current temperature in Realtor, CABRIES, France is 3.4°C (9:12 AM CET on March 06, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Windchill: 3.0°C. Pressure: 30.11 in 1020 hPa (Rising).
08:15 magnuse       "Realtor, CABRIES" does not quite sound like "marseille", though?
08:16 magnuse       woohoo, look at that: http://www.yr.no/place/France/Provence-Alpes-C%C3%B4te_d%E2%80%99Azur/Marseille/long.html
08:17 cait          magnuse: that's more like ti!
08:32 ashimema      @later tell tcohen you called?
08:32 huginn        ashimema: The operation succeeded.
09:10 Oak           magnuse
09:10 Oak           guten morgen cait
09:10 Oak           Bonjour alex_a, Joubu
09:11 Oak           should just use 'hi everyone' actually. hm.
09:11 Oak           because otherwise i miss some.
09:12 Oak           stop talking now Oak.
09:12 Oak           okay.
09:20 magnuse       Oak
09:43 HB            Hey koha a question about field 008 if i want to change a book to continuing resource on that field it wont do that (afther i save its back the old thing again) anny tips ?
09:49 fridolin      hie all
10:02 magnuse       bonjour fridolin
10:38 paxed         basket shows gste total rather weidly: http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/kohabasket_sillyvalue.png
10:38 paxed         +r
10:40 cait          paxed: there are several bugs related to gst and calculation in bugzilla, also there were some questions from galen on the mailinglist some time ago, rying to figure out people's expectations
10:41 cait          paxed: i think it's only a display problem there tho - looks like it will give sums for each tax rate , this is the sum for all with 10%
10:41 paxed         why not FORMAT ALL CURRENCY</meme>
10:41 cait          because noone got around to do it yet
10:41 cait          i'd love if we had a plugin like for date formatting to take care of it
10:43 paxed         i'm just surprised that a program that actually handles currency wasn't coded with currency formatting in the first place.
10:48 cait          it was coded for the currency formatting expected in english speaking countries and how it works for computrs
10:48 cait          ... i agree that it would be nicer to have a decimal comma then a decimal point
10:48 cait          but i know other library software that can't do that
10:49 paxed         also that there's only one fraction after the decimal mark...
10:53 cait          i think for the one you found that bit would not be hard to fix
10:53 cait          TT can do it even, the old template system was not as nice
12:51 oleonard      Hi #koha
12:52 magnuse       hiya oleonard
12:57 gaetan_B      hi oleonard
12:58 gaetan_B      there's a problem in the admin with marc frameworks
12:58 magnuse       gaetan_B: with memcached on?
12:58 gaetan_B      the js accordion gets stuck on subfields t, did you notice it before ?
12:58 gaetan_B      nope
12:58 magnuse       ah, sorry, i was thinking about another problem :-)
12:59 gaetan_B      i found this one while looking up bugzilla, but this seems to be another, new, bug
12:59 gaetan_B      i just want to make sure it's not just with me
12:59 gaetan_B      :)
13:00 gaetan_B      if you try to edit constraints for a t subfield, you end up with just the headers for each section, and they won't open again
13:00 jcamins       Wow, that's a funny bug.
13:00 * jcamins     can reproduce.
13:01 oleonard      What's something with a t?
13:01 jcamins       700
13:02 gaetan_B      ok i'll open a bug on bugzilla then
13:07 gaetan_B      jcamins: did you reproduce it in master
13:07 jcamins       Masterish, anyway.
13:08 oleonard      Simply opening the 't' tab gets you broken accordion? Or do you have to do something else?
13:08 jcamins       Click on "Advanced constraints" on the t tab.
13:09 Viktor        Greetings!
13:09 mtompset      Greetings, oleonard jcamins #koha -- Viktor. :) -- Goes to check log files. This conversation might be interesting. :)
13:10 oleonard      I guess I'm not seeing it jcamins
13:10 jcamins       I'll check on latest master.
13:11 gaetan_B      i have a very slow connection here and can't update my instance to a really fresh master unfortunately
13:11 jcamins       I am now on latest master and I'm still seeing it.
13:11 gaetan_B      ok i'll save the bug then
13:12 gaetan_B      bug 11898
13:12 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11898 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , the js accordion when editing marc frameworks is broken for the t tab
13:12 mtompset      Do you get any javascript errors, gaetan_B?
13:12 gaetan_B      hmm not an enh though
13:12 gaetan_B      i didn't check
13:12 jcamins       oleonard: http://screencast.com/t/o2zXFrBNJhtY
13:12 gaetan_B      i probably do
13:12 * mtompset    grumbles about the default enhancement setting in bugzilla.
13:13 gaetan_B      i'll leave it to you for now though, i'm in the middle of a training ;)
13:14 kivilahtio    any ideas why there are two different codebases for adding items (cataloguing->additem.pl   and    acquisitions->neworder|empty|subscription|suggestion...) ?
13:14 mtompset      I don't get that problem.
13:14 kivilahtio    is there a third way ? :)
13:16 * oleonard    still can't reproduce
13:16 mtompset      Neither can I, oleonard.
13:17 mtompset      Which version of Koha? What OS?
13:17 oleonard      I'm testing on master, FF and Chrome on Windows 7.
13:18 jcamins       I'll test on FF.
13:18 jcamins       Works on FF.
13:19 gaetan_B      i have the bug in ff 27
13:20 mtompset      I just tried IE 11.
13:20 mtompset      Couldn't reproduce.
13:20 oleonard      Data-dependent?
13:20 mtompset      I tried FF 27.0.1 -- couldn't reproduce. I'm using Windows 7.
13:21 gaetan_B      i also have it in chromium
13:21 gaetan_B      i'm on ubuntu
13:21 oleonard      Works for me with FF and Chrome in my Ubuntu VM
13:21 gaetan_B      i don't see why this would be os dependent though
13:21 jcamins       It doesn't seem to be, because I didn't change my 700 field.
13:21 mtompset      Well, sometimes Ubuntu libraries aren't as current as Debian ones.
13:21 * magnuse     has taken the liberty of creating http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Developers_IRC_Meeting,_March_12_2014 - please feel free to edit
13:22 jcamins       Works on FF under Ubuntu 12.04 for me.
13:22 jcamins       But it's FF 26.
13:22 mtompset      Same here, jcamins. Though, I have patched some of the other things.
13:22 jcamins       Which is probably about thirty versions behind.
13:24 mtompset      Greetings, tcohen.
13:25 mtompset      magnuse++ # for thinking ahead. :)
13:27 * magnuse     has taken the liberty of creating http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Developers_IRC_Meeting,_March_12_2014
13:28 magnuse       gah
13:28 magnuse       i completely forgot i wrote that the first time...
13:28 magnuse       not a good sign...
13:30 tcohen        morning mtompset magnuse #koha
13:31 mtompset      magnuse: Either more caffeine or more sleep are probably in order. :)
13:32 oleonard      Just a glitch in the Matrix magnuse
13:36 * magnuse     does not drink coffee, but definitely needs more sleep
13:36 magnuse       oleonard: yeah, if i close my eyes i see "raining" green numbers
13:39 mtompset      I said caffeine. That includes colas, teas, or any other form of caffeine. :)
13:39 magnuse       ah, that is true! :-)
13:39 magnuse       maybe some kind of intravenous...
13:40 marcelr       mtompset: did not see your patch for IsSuperLibrarian
13:40 oleonard      Don't forget chocolate!
13:40 * cait        sends cookies to magnuse
13:42 mtompset      marcelr: It's easy to not find duplicates some times. :)
13:42 marcelr       especially if you did not even search for them ;)
13:42 mtompset      magnuse++ #intravenous caffeine. YES! Too much blood in my caffeine stream. ;)
13:46 magnuse       lol
13:55 marcelr       oleonard: Your suggestions on the last patch of bug 9032 are welcome (creating and modifying bootstrap template; no css changes at least from me..) Thx
13:55 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9032 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Needs Signoff , Share a list
13:55 oleonard      Okay marcelr I'll take a look
14:18 rhcl          @wunder 64507
14:18 huginn        rhcl: The current temperature in Wyatt Park, St Joseph, Missouri is -3.9°C (8:18 AM CST on March 06, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 91%. Dew Point: -5.0°C. Windchill: -4.0°C. Pressure: 30.27 in 1025 hPa (Falling).
14:23 * magnuse     waves to Viktor
14:24 * Viktor      waves back at magnuse
14:27 * mtompset    waves at Viktor and magnuse in an attempt to get a wave going around the room. ;)
14:27 mtompset      Greetings, rhcl. :)
14:30 Viktor        Btw - a HOLD_PRINT notice problem: <<branches.branchname>> and other values under <<branches. >> seems to collect the branch that owns a copy instead of the branch where the patron can collect the copy. Is this expected or did we just mess things up?
14:33 cait          Viktor: hm if you compare to the emails, is it the same there or only for the print?
14:33 rhcl          hey mtompset
14:33 wahanui       somebody said mtompset was catching up in the non-coding aspects of his ministry.
14:34 mtompset      Still not so strong in that regard. :(
14:35 Viktor        cait: Hm. We don't use email much as of yet. But when we print the messages for different branches this happens when a book is borrowed from another branch.
14:35 cait          i wonder if one of the settings would influence it
14:35 Viktor        cait: problem is of course that people will go to the wrong branch.
14:35 cait          we don't use the print notices :(
14:35 cait          Viktor: maybe file a bug as a first step?
14:36 cait          Viktor: it doesn't sound right
14:37 Viktor        I'll do that then cait - thanks! Just wanted to know if I misunderstood this first.
14:41 Viktor        Is there any cheat sheet for what those codes are suppose to contain?  http://manual.koha-community.org/3.14/en/notices.html#noticemarkup keeps it to a quite general level.
14:58 cait          hm not really
14:59 cait          ithink it's a bit trial and error currently
15:47 fridolin      bye
15:52 * dbs         would like to ensure that the settings for bug 11786 are correct for getting said fixes into master and 3.14 (specifically targeting 3.14 as the version)
15:52 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11786 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, dan, Needs Signoff , Improve RDFa schema.org mappings in prog and bootstrap
15:52 cait          hi dbs - it still needs a sign off, maybe that will happen next week at the hackfest
15:58 AmitG         hi
15:58 wahanui       bonjour, AmitG
15:58 AmitG         all
15:58 AmitG         gaetan_B around?
15:58 gaetan_B      hi AmitG, long time no see!
16:05 dbs           cait: right, mostly I wanted to ensure that I didn't inadvertently set something that kept it from being visible in a "to sign-off / to QA" kind of queue :)
16:05 dbs           cait++
16:05 cait          nope it looks alright :)
16:11 oleonard      Anyone know of a library which is running the new bootstrap opac theme in production?
16:19 oleonard      I posted an intro to the new Bootstrap theme on my Koha blog: http://www.myacpl.org/koha/new-opac-theme-bootstrap/
16:19 cait          oh cool
16:19 gmcharlt      oleonard++
16:19 cait          oleonard: we are still on 3.12.. just arrive dther eto be honest with all of them
16:20 cait          oleonard++
16:20 cait          but i will sure need this at some point
16:22 cait          Joubu++ for taking on the oldest open bug :)
16:26 rhcl          cait: would you say that the springer databases are popular in Europe?  http://link.springer.com/
16:27 cait          the ebooks are very popular
16:27 cait          not sure about the databases - I hear less about it as that is separate from the ILS
16:29 cait          sorry, have to run:) post office closes in half an hour
16:49 gaetan_B      bye!
16:52 barton        Hey, I'm just curious: who else in #koha does tech support for Koha as their primary job?
16:55 wajasu        barton: this may help http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/IRC_Regulars
17:03 barton        wajasu: Thanks! Very good to know.
17:07 oleonard      And you can add yourself barton :)
17:08 barton        oleonard: I'm just registering for a wiki login so that I can do that :-)
17:09 reiveune      bye
17:09 oleonard      And if anyone else here is a regular but not on that list please add yourselves!
17:10 oleonard      On the other hand, some on that list are no longer regulars
17:10 cait          barton: do you need confirmation for your wiki account?
17:11 oleonard      No more hdl, libsysguy, sekjal...
17:11 nengard       some job titles are wrong too ...
17:11 barton        cait: yes... as a matter of fact, your post was mere milliseconds after I clicked 'submit' :-)\
17:11 cait          give me a sec
17:12 barton        nengard: yes. In fact there are a number of people listed as bywater employees who are no longer...
17:12 barton        (come back! come back!)
17:13 nengard       hehe
17:13 cait          barton: confirmed:)
17:13 nengard       not a big deal as i see it - those people might still come in channel an then at least we know who they are :)
17:13 bag           @seen sekjal
17:13 huginn        bag: sekjal was last seen in #koha 43 weeks, 6 days, 3 hours, 43 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <sekjal> our camera was put up late this year; the eggs were already there when we installed
17:13 nengard       :(
17:13 barton        cait: gratzi!
17:13 nengard       sad
17:13 cait          barton: huh? :)
17:14 barton        cait: 'gratzi' == 'thank you' in Italian.
17:15 rhcl          maybe there should be a way to mark list members as "inactive" if they haven't been on channel for a year or two.
17:16 rhcl          I also note (and just updated my own listing) that the non-US people tend to list their country code, and nearly all the US people fail to do so. - FWIW
17:17 rhcl          @seen rch
17:17 huginn        rhcl: I have not seen rch.
17:18 nengard       country added to mine
17:25 rhcl          druthb is still listed as ByWater. \\Where are all them skittles that fell on the floor when you need some ammo?\\
17:25 * druthb      has skittles.
17:26 * bag         needs one of these http://bugasalt.com/ to hit the skittles as they fly this way
17:29 mtompset      cool gun, bag.
17:30 barton        salty lime jello? 8-P
17:31 cait          editing druthb's on her request
17:31 * cait        glares a little
17:31 * druthb      chuckles.
17:32 * barton      notices that the wiki is glaring back at cait.
17:32 druthb        hi, bag! :)
17:32 bag           hey
17:33 cait          it's a mediawiki... it has every reason to
17:52 rhcl          @seen ricardo
17:52 huginn        rhcl: ricardo was last seen in #koha 3 years, 4 weeks, 5 days, 5 hours, 44 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <ricardo> thd: With NICKSERV commands :)  Write /nickserv help register
17:53 rhcl          @seen Space_Librarian
17:53 huginn        rhcl: Space_Librarian was last seen in #koha 1 year, 7 weeks, 5 days, 19 hours, 9 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <Space_Librarian> lol. good one.
17:53 cait          she has a new job too
17:54 rhcl          @seen cjh
17:54 huginn        rhcl: cjh was last seen in #koha 6 weeks, 0 days, 17 hours, 42 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <cjh> heh
17:56 rhcl          I need a new job. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (US) I should be a sysadmin for an oil company.
17:57 rhcl          If I read the stats correctly, they pay the top 90% of wages for this job title. Wonder what life on an oil rig in the Gulf is like?
17:58 rhcl          I'd think the fishing would be great.
17:59 pianohacker   Hi
17:59 rhcl          hi pianohacker
17:59 mtompset      Greetings, pianohacker.
18:00 pianohacker   hi guys
18:00 cait          hi pianohacker
18:00 cait          did you see my mail about dinner on sunday?
18:02 pianohacker   Yes, haven't gotten a chance to read yet
18:08 cait          tsk :)
18:08 magnuse       i *might* join you for dinner on sunday, if you'll let me
18:08 magnuse       but i'll have to stay in until 19:00, and it all depends on the little'un
18:09 magnuse       so i'll just catch up if i can, don't wait for me
18:09 cait          rangi++
18:09 cait          magnuse: i have been thinking about returning to the spot at 7
18:09 cait          because some people can#t make it it seems
18:10 cait          just have a beer/coffee somewhere close or walk down to the harbour or so
18:10 magnuse       kewl
18:10 pianohacker   beer coffee? I've had coffee beer
18:11 cait          just try to be there ok? :)
18:11 cait          magnuse: i added it to the hackfest doc - on a new tab - add your name/time as a reminder maybe?
18:12 magnuse       rangi++
18:13 magnuse       cait: done
18:13 cait          thx :)
19:25 rangi         morning
19:27 khall         good mornin rangi!
19:28 rangi         morning khall :) are you a dad yet?
19:28 khall         et al
19:28 khall         not quite yet ; )
19:29 khall         Tomorrow is the official due date, but so far there's no indication anything is going to happen
19:29 khall         We've got an appointment on Monday. They'll decide then if we should think about getting her induced
19:30 khall         She's gonna be a big baby, 9+ pounds, so they don't want to wait too long ; )
19:31 cait          :)
19:31 khall         how's cait today?
19:31 cait          tired? :)
19:32 cait          how is kyle? :)
19:32 khall         full of anticipation
19:33 rangi         oh yeah that is a big baby
19:34 khall         I think it's scaring my wife! She's totally changed her mind about avoiding a c-section ; )
19:34 magnuse       heh, 4 kilos, eh?
19:35 khall         indeed!
19:39 rangi         fair enough!
19:42 rangi         kahu was 3.04 kg, and atarau was 4.24kg
19:42 * magnuse     wanders off to start packing for marseille
19:42 khall         that's a pretty big baby!
19:43 * khall       wishes everyone a great hackfest in marseille!
19:45 cait          we'll miss you
19:47 mtompset      Indeed. Looking forward to watching those needs sign offs dropping drastically. :)
20:04 * wajasu      Search  getRecords  is a real piece of work.
20:05 rangi         luckily its not much longer for this world
20:05 * pianohacker wants a turn at that chopping block
20:05 rangi         zomg
20:06 rangi         ole is at 3.3 million now
20:06 pianohacker   ?
20:06 rangi         http://www.librarytechnology.org/ltg-displaytext.pl?RC=18995
20:07 rangi         3.1 sorry
20:07 rangi         oh i lie
20:07 rangi         With this latest grant, IU has now received more than $4 million from Mellon for the OLE project.
20:07 rangi         thats a crap ton of money
20:07 jcamins       rangi: I know!
20:08 wajasu        i'm trying to reconcile hiddenitems, lostitems, etc with optional biblio results display, and  auto details redirect, whilst being concerned about 9 pound babies.
20:08 pianohacker   40 developers at $100,000 for a year? You could make a lot of something with that
20:08 rangi         yup
20:08 bag           man we need to start writing grants
20:08 rangi         we do
20:08 pianohacker   any bets on whether it'll be a good something?
20:09 rangi         its java
20:09 pianohacker   augh
20:09 rangi         it'll be a big something
20:09 bag           we = something with koha that could recieve that money and put it to good use (not a for-profit) :)
20:09 pianohacker   maybe a good something
20:09 pianohacker   but definitely a good something
20:10 pianohacker   *big something
20:10 * pianohacker needs to finish his keyboard so he can type
20:11 tcohen        isn't OLe free software?
20:11 rangi         :)
20:11 rangi         of a sort
20:11 rangi         id say its open source
20:11 tcohen        no community
20:11 rangi         not free software
20:12 cait          [off] it's developed by one company so far... i am not sure how open it will be to contributions
20:12 cait          [off] is has a membership model - you pay to decide
20:12 jcamins       rangi: I'd say it's almost open source, anyway.
20:12 druthb        it's also so enormous that it requires a herd of geeks to keep it happy.  LOTS of moving parts.
20:12 rhcl          the license seems to be OSI approved open source
20:13 druthb        As I told someone from there at code4lib a couple years ago, "it's so huge that there are only about a dozen universities in the world that'll be capable of using it."
20:13 rhcl          "Kuali software is available, without fee, for anyone to use or modify under the Educational Community License."
20:13 cait          [off] the license is not the only thing... if you have the software and can't give back, what will you do?
20:13 tcohen        [off] fork it?
20:13 jcamins       rhcl: I'd be a lot more impressed by that fact if there were actual source available. Last time I looked, there wasn't.
20:14 rhcl          well, I don't know of course, but surely it must be somewhere to have an approved OS license
20:14 tcohen        what does Ole perform in that we don't? file repository + ILS?
20:14 jcamins       tcohen: it replaces that giant Oracle program.
20:14 jcamins       I can't think of what it's called.
20:14 jcamins       For HR.
20:15 cait          ERM
20:15 rhcl          source code seems to be available here: https://www.kuali.org/download
20:15 cait          Electronic resource management
20:15 * tcohen      is not sure it is Oracle dependent
20:15 jcamins       No, not ERM.
20:15 barton        druthb: http://all-sorts.org/nouns/geeks
20:15 wajasu        SAP?
20:15 jcamins       That really, really big one that enterprises use.
20:15 jcamins       wajasu: that's it.
20:16 cait          jcamins: for what it odes we don't
20:16 cait          at least that's what i am told :)
20:16 mveron        Hi #Koha
20:16 jcamins       rhcl: oh, looks like they have it available now.
20:16 tcohen        jcamins: Java + Tomcat
20:16 tcohen        + MySQL
20:17 jcamins       tcohen: no, I don't mean that it uses Oracle, I meant that it provides SAP-like functionality.
20:17 cait          kuali has different software
20:17 cait          i think the financial part is rice
20:17 cait          it's more thought to be a management software for the whole university
20:17 wajasu        accounting, etc
20:17 tcohen        I've seen the interface
20:17 tcohen        of the ILS component
20:18 rhcl          all those modules you're talking about are on the download page: https://www.kuali.org/download
20:18 druthb        jcamins, I know the one you're talking about, but can't think of the name...
20:18 jcamins       druthb: wajasu thought of it. SAP.
20:18 pianohacker   oh, they'll be fine. We've proven that Tomcat isn't at all a barrier to deployment
20:18 tcohen        it seems to have something we lack of, which is the posibility to define custom workflows
20:18 jcamins       pianohacker: ::snrrrk::
20:18 tcohen        instead of having a harcoded one
20:19 druthb        no, SAP is more manufacturing based…there's another one that is University centric, does classes, grades, all kinds of things *except* ILS
20:19 jcamins       druthb: I thought that was SAP, too.
20:19 druthb        I'm hunting for it...sec
20:19 tcohen        [off] Ole is also awful BTW
20:20 rangi         SAP does everything
20:20 rangi         they throw it banking, academic institutes
20:20 rangi         it works about as well as you would expect
20:20 rangi         the other pile of crap
20:20 rangi         is peoplesoft
20:21 rangi         which is utter shite
20:21 rangi         and costs about 7 houses
20:21 druthb        The university I was at had a system they just *loved*—on paper.  In operation, it sucked rocks.
20:22 mveron        I'm looking for a pattern on how to fix Bug 11906 - Bad display of utf-8 chars in Patron lists (Datatable)
20:22 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11906 minor, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Bad display of utf-8 chars in Patron lists (Datatable)
20:22 rangi         ah right
20:22 rangi         mveron: tcohen is probably the best to talk to about that
20:23 wajasu        i was playing with   java with apache camel message gateway to koha via a STOMP message protocol so that koha could call java services on an ESB.  such as Solr, ElasticSearch, payment gateways, etc
20:23 druthb        SCT Banner.  That's the one.
20:23 pianohacker   druthb: Wait, hold on. Now supported by Ellucian?
20:23 druthb        Now owned by Ellucian.
20:24 druthb        yeah, that's them.
20:24 pianohacker   [off] son of a BITCH
20:24 rhcl          ?
20:24 druthb        http://www.ellucian.com/student-information-system/
20:24 druthb        ?
20:24 pianohacker   guess what my university uses, and I am trying to interface with for a scheduling app I inherited?
20:25 jcamins       druthb: yes, SIS. That's what I was thinking of.
20:25 druthb        I'm told that it's not too outrageous to develop against.  I did an interface between Banner and a Symphony box to pass billing along.
20:25 tcohen        mveron: i can take a look tomorrow
20:25 jenkins_koha  Starting build #452 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: SUCCESS)
20:25 jenkins_koha  Project Koha_Docs build #452: SUCCESS in 16 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/452/
20:25 jenkins_koha  Nicole C. Engard: update fund restriction with note
20:25 jcamins       [off] SAP, SIS, both are better described with a four-letter word starting with 'S'.
20:26 mveron        tcohen: Thanks.   :-)
20:26 druthb        There was an older system called SIS, too, by …. Z-systems, I think.
20:27 druthb        they had an FRS and an HRS and some other goodies too
20:27 jcamins       A Fellow of the Royal Society was involved?!?
20:28 druthb        that was a VMS-based text-terminal system, and you had "screens" you called up with stuff like SIS009 and such.
20:28 cjh_          rhcl: morning, you rang?
20:28 jenkins_koha  Starting build #25 for job Koha_Docs_3.14.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
20:28 jenkins_koha  Project Koha_Docs_3.14.x build #25: SUCCESS in 12 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.14.x/25/
20:28 jenkins_koha  Nicole C. Engard: update fund restriction with note
20:38 * tcohen      hates finding bugs
20:41 * mveron      Hates bugs found by customers :-)
20:41 wajasu        are facets, the box to the left (Availability, Auhtors, Libraries ...) ?
20:42 wizzyrea      can I just say, I really love how consistent people are about putting bug numbers on their commits these days.
20:42 wizzyrea      super good work everybody.
20:42 wizzyrea      \o/
20:43 cait          wizzyrea: true :)
20:43 cait          also test plans
20:43 wizzyrea      ^ room for improvement but HEAPS and HEAPS better than it used to be
20:44 wajasu        test plans are awesome.  at least it gives context for where to go even if minimal.
20:44 cait          yeah
20:44 cait          my theory is that we don't notice the good change often, we are too close to see
20:44 cait          but actually lots of things move :)
20:44 cait          in a good direction
20:45 wizzyrea      I find, at least once a week, a new feature that delights me.
20:45 wizzyrea      Oh you can batch edit items from the detail screen! THat's awesome! or Patron lists! That's awesome!
20:46 cait          :)
20:53 tcohen        is anyone used to the cover fetching codE?
20:53 tcohen        I don't see how are we showing covers based on ISSN
20:54 wizzyrea      I don't think we are, I've only observed isbn
20:54 wizzyrea      unless you have an example
20:54 tcohen        reading the code I find that we don't
20:55 tcohen        was asking just in case I missed something
20:55 wizzyrea      afaik, (and according to the code) we don't use ISSN - you can do a local cover for those
20:55 wizzyrea      periodicals and DVD's are hard to get covers for.
20:57 tcohen        thanks liz
20:59 wizzyrea      yep yw
21:03 mtompset      mveron: Thanks for bumping me into 5th. :(
21:04 mtompset      mveron++ # for number of sign offs.
21:04 mveron        :-)
21:05 cait          mveron++ :)
21:05 mveron        Sign off is a good way to learn a lot about koha  :-)
21:05 mtompset      Yes, particularly with the more detailed ones.
21:06 * mveron      ...tok a lot of the easy ones...
21:06 mveron        took
21:08 wajasu        when the marc record item status is sent to "Lost".  does the itemlost in the item table get syncronized?
21:08 wajasu        sent/set/
21:09 mveron        Oh, it's late... Good night everybody :-)
21:09 mtompset      mveron: Good day (24 hour period) :)
21:09 mtompset      DOH! I forgot to ask nengard a question.
21:09 mveron        :-)
21:11 wizzyrea      she's still here, nlengard?
21:11 wizzyrea      (I think?)
21:11 wizzyrea      nlegrand, that is not the same thing as nlengard. Wow that's a letter mixup, sorry!
21:12 cait          i think legrand is from france
21:12 cait          nle...
21:12 wizzyrea      that makes a lot more sensel
21:12 wizzyrea      sense.
21:12 cait          i can tell you more after next week :)
21:12 wizzyrea      sensel. Like tinsel, but with sense!
21:14 mtompset      Looks like the blou ping system has timed out. :(
21:15 cait          ?
21:20 eythian       hi
21:22 tcohen        @later tell oleonard I need to ask you about the GetMarcISBN code, it should look just like GetMarcISSN but it doesn't
21:22 huginn        tcohen: The operation succeeded.
21:23 cait          tcohen: if you start looking at the cover code anyway... could you please tell it to use isbn13?
21:23 cait          in 3.12 there is code that normalizes to isbn10
21:23 cait          which is... kinda backwards
21:23 wizzyrea      it is if amazon recognises isbn13
21:23 wizzyrea      it isn't if they dont :/
21:24 rangi         thats cos amazon only recognises 10
21:24 cait          i think that might not be true any longer
21:24 cait          or you would never get covers for new books
21:24 wizzyrea      that would be wicked.
21:24 rangi         it is for most of their catalogue
21:25 rangi         until they go back and backfill, which i cant imagine them doing anytime fast
21:25 tcohen        cait: i've been there, but my work didn't have feedback and I left it
21:25 wajasu        maybe if none found, try isbn13
21:26 wizzyrea      cait - do you have an example 13 that has no 10 in Amazon?
21:26 cait          every new book
21:26 tcohen        as far as I can tell we should move all that external cover libs into template plugins, and make them adjust the ISBN's to whatever each service needs
21:26 rangi         yep
21:27 tcohen        and close bug 706 of course :-P
21:27 rangi         amazon have their own numbering scheme
21:27 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=706 minor, P2, ---, henridamien, CLOSED FIXED, newbasket2.pl search results page has no 'previous' link
21:27 tcohen        no, not that one
21:27 rangi         they dont really care
21:28 cait          tcohen: woiuld love that
21:28 cait          also have the server get the image
21:28 tcohen        bug 906
21:28 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=906 enhancement, P2, ---, tomascohen, Failed QA , ISBN Check
21:28 rangi         cait: thats against T&c
21:28 cait          wizzyrea: they seemto have lot of isbn10 around... but actually you shouldn't be able to have an isbn10 for every isbn13
21:28 cait          rangi: you have to have the client get the picture?
21:29 rangi         yes
21:29 cait          i really need to add that german service we have now :(
21:29 rangi         for amazon at least
21:29 wizzyrea      http://www.amazon.com/The-Future-Mind-Scientific-Understand/dp/038553082X/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1394141256&sr=1-3 THis book is brand new, it has both.
21:30 cait          wizzyrea: yeah found a few too
21:31 cait          I think the problem i ran into was that the german provier doesn't do isbn10 at all
21:31 cait          but only isbn13
21:31 cait          so just the other way around
21:31 cait          so what tcohen said, should be plugins
21:32 rangi         when you cache content, (like you do if the server fetches it) you have to read really carefully all the terms of service
21:32 rangi         and make sure you comply, cos its now your problem
21:32 rangi         if the client fetches, it's their problem
21:32 cait          i don#t want to cache really
21:32 rangi         you are caching
21:33 rangi         if you fetch, then return it to the browser
21:33 rangi         you are caching
21:33 rangi         thats the point
21:33 cait          hm ok, don't fetch for a longer time
21:33 rangi         only some API define a time
21:33 cait          i think the german provider really allows that
21:33 rangi         google you cant keep longer thanthe headers allow
21:33 cait          because it started with that kind of discussion
21:33 rangi         which is ok, amazon, you cant do it at all
21:34 cait          data privacy...
21:34 wahanui       i heard data privacy was an important topic for us
21:34 rangi         so its not as simple as making them all fetch it has to be a case by case thing,and you want actual lawyers to read the T&C
21:34 cait          there was an article in a big newspaper here about a university library catalog using amazon for covers
21:34 rangi         yep, im just saying it opens the project up for getting sued
21:35 rangi         if people muck it up
21:35 cait          maybe the plugin idea is not a bad one
21:35 tcohen        you have to do it in-house and take responsibility
21:35 cait          yeah
21:35 rangi         yep
21:35 cait          for example in order for it to be legal for a library here to display covers
21:35 cait          not only the service provider terms need to be considered I think
21:36 cait          because there is copyright on covers
21:36 cait          but there exists some kind of contract negotiated by one of the library associations to cover that
21:36 cait          it's all terribly complicated :(
21:37 rangi         yes
21:37 rangi         not something you can solve by a general thing in koha
21:37 cait          yeah... but everyone wants covers
21:38 cait          something you can plug in easily maybe
21:43 wajasu        does anyone know how the "refine your search" Availabiliy should work?  if i have 2 books, both marked as lost, should the biblio inthe results be hidden when one sees "Limit to currently available items" ?
21:44 wajasu        i'm in the prog theme
21:45 eythian       That's what I'd expect. Whether it does that, I don't know...
21:47 eythian       cait: kristina just gave us big blocks of German chocolate :)
21:47 cait          cool, wha tkind? :)
21:48 cait          and she didn't bring some boring but consistent beer for you? :)
21:48 eythian       She had some Ritter Sport, but I brought back ~1kg of that from Berlin, so I took the Milka instead.
21:48 wizzyrea      mine is joghurt ritter, which, joghurt is what happens to me when I job
21:48 eythian       Alas, no :)
21:48 wizzyrea      well that was freudian.
21:49 eythian       wizzyrea: it was also joghurt ritter that I gave you when I came back, IIRC :)
21:49 wizzyrea      yes it was!
21:49 wizzyrea      well there were a couple kinds in there.
21:50 eythian       https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ritter+sport+berlin&client=ubuntu&hs=AW2&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=me0YU9jwPIqwkAXAs4DADQ&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg&biw=1918&bih=1012 <-- that is actually what it looks like inside. It's pretty cool.
21:51 wizzyrea      wowie
21:51 wizzyrea      honestly must get to germany one day.
21:51 wizzyrea      europe generally.
21:51 cait          i really like ritter sport
21:52 wajasu        all color coded!
21:52 cait          the put ads on stairs, it's quite nice sometimes
21:53 cait          eythian: actually you were much closer here to th ehome of ritter sport than in berlin :)
21:53 eythian       heh, where's it actually from?
21:53 cait          eythian: iirc they are close to stuttgart, where we had the workshop
21:53 eythian       ah right
21:54 cait          i will probably bring some to france
21:54 cait          i think you can't get all flavours there a tleast...
21:54 cait          quite hard to find something that's not available all over europe
21:55 cait          http://www.ritter-sport.de/#/de_DE/waldenbuch
21:55 * magnuse     will manage to do that ;-)
21:55 eythian       it'll be like raw herring or something.
21:56 rangi         i got schoko bang, which is zarbitter mit chili
21:56 magnuse       eythian: mohahahaha
21:56 magnuse       kia ora irma!
21:57 cait          magnuse: hmpf :)
21:57 magnuse       oops, still no packing done and we leave for marseille early on saturday
21:57 cait          rangi: yummy
21:57 cait          I still need to do laundry...
21:58 cait          but leaving on Sunday, have a bit more time :)
21:58 magnuse       cait: lucky you ;-)
21:58 cait          or lucky you :)
21:58 eythian       I managed to get mine done on the last fine day that was then followed by 4 days of rain and wind.
21:58 eythian       it was quite fortunate.
21:59 cait          @wunder Konstanz
21:59 huginn        cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 2.7°C (10:55 PM CET on March 06, 2014). Conditions: Mist. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Windchill: 3.0°C. Pressure: 30.27 in 1025 hPa (Falling).
22:00 eythian       @wunder nzwn
22:00 huginn        eythian: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 17.0°C (10:30 AM NZDT on March 07, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady).
22:00 eythian       it's been better here since yesterday or so
22:00 dcook         ^
22:01 dcook         @wunder sydney, australia
22:01 huginn        dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 22.0°C (8:30 AM EST on March 07, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Rising).
22:02 rangi         http://www.zazzle.com/basic_black_evergreen_shirt-235591693917266452  <--- nice
22:02 rangi         not the price, i cant afford 33.95 for a tshirt, but the design is nice :)
22:02 dcook         I was just thinking that, rangi :p
22:03 cait          rangi: the mahara stuff is really nice too
22:03 rangi         yeah
22:03 rangi         it really is
22:03 cait          we should have nice koha stuff!
22:03 magnuse       wow, that would be expensive for a tshirt even in norway
22:03 rangi         http://www.cafepress.com/mahara/9943875
22:04 rangi         http://www.cafepress.com/mf/74770368/koha_mugs?productId=751374936
22:05 rangi         http://www.cafepress.com/mf/34235117/koha_mugs?productId=298433291 too
22:05 cait          git commited to koha :)
22:05 wizzyrea      I have one of those :)
22:05 cait          wonder how expensive shipping would be
22:06 wizzyrea      it's humongous
22:06 dcook         ^
22:06 wizzyrea      the caffienated beverage of my choice in that would make me fly to the moon.
22:06 cait          i was afraid it would be
22:06 wizzyrea      so I use it for pens.
22:06 wizzyrea      :P
22:06 dcook         wizzyrea: I have no idea what you just said, but it sounds frightening?
22:06 cait          rangi: was thinking of those especially: http://www.cafepress.com/mahara/9960700
22:07 wizzyrea      just that if I drank that much coffee I'd have enough power to jitter my way to the moon.
22:07 cait          wizzyrea: is 11897 a thing in US?
22:08 dcook         wizzyrea: Ahhh.
22:08 * eythian     wonders what would make good work music for today.
22:08 bag           bag?
22:08 wahanui       I LIKE BASEBALL
22:08 bag           YAY!
22:09 wizzyrea      cait: err, I can see the utility of that.
22:09 wizzyrea      I never had any libraries that did that
22:09 dcook         eythian: That's a good question.
22:09 rhcl          bag: ever attend any minor league games? season will be starting soon
22:10 dcook         Err, wondering
22:10 cait          i haven't had heard of it either, but it seems to be common in UK
22:10 wizzyrea      dcook?
22:10 wahanui       rumour has it dcook is missing part of that original link due to a smiley face that comes up in dcook's IRC client
22:10 wizzyrea      snicker.
22:10 dcook         I...
22:10 dcook         O_o
22:10 bag           rhcl I have attended minor league games
22:11 bag           I used to go to the beehive in new britian ct all the time
22:11 rhcl          I've attended a couple of these: http://www.milb.com/index.jsp?sid=t440
22:13 rangi         eythian: https://soundcloud.com/kowtow-music/03-nature-of-man
22:14 rangi         for some wellington sounds
22:15 mtompset      http://youtu.be/qtFBRJFN3p8 (Frank Sinatra, wizzyrea)
22:15 wizzyrea      yes, just like that :)
22:17 eythian       http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2587
22:22 eythian       http://conferencecall.biz/
22:29 * eythian     just google musics "headless chickens", and hits "radio". That'll do for the next hour or two.
22:29 rangi         :)
22:29 wizzyrea      O.o
22:30 eythian       http://youtu.be/GUBosuLLUvQ <-- wizzyrea, start here
22:30 * wizzyrea    pauses her dub-trance
22:30 wizzyrea      oh that is less metal than I expected.
22:31 pianohacker   wizzyrea: ... you listen to dub trance? :D
22:31 wizzyrea      ... yes
22:32 pianohacker   ... could I trouble you for some links, oh miss who I have an unexpected shared interest with?
22:33 eythian       wizzyrea: not metal at all, 90's NZ music.
22:33 tcohen        night #koha
22:33 eythian       good for a sunny Friday
22:33 wizzyrea      I like it :)
22:33 rangi         pianohacker: https://soundcloud.com/stinkahbell/stinkahbell-stinkahz-in-paris
22:33 eythian       even if there's no BBQ going :)
22:33 wizzyrea      there should totally be a bbq going.
22:34 wizzyrea      it's the most summery day out there, and it's fracking autumn.
22:34 wizzyrea      after about 3 days of winter.
22:34 rangi         pianohacker: https://soundcloud.com/a-tribe-called-red/01-a-tribe-called-red-braves (not trance at all)
22:34 wizzyrea      https://soundcloud.com/soundremedy/wasting-my-young-years-sound < is what I was listening to before headless chickens.
22:34 rangi         but a tribe called red are cool
22:35 wizzyrea      that is probably less dub than trance
22:35 rangi         https://soundcloud.com/a-tribe-called-red
22:35 wizzyrea      rangi really covers the dubstep better than I do
22:35 rangi         dubstep you says
22:36 * dcook       wonders if he is the hipster of #koha...
22:36 * wizzyrea    gears up for the "can rangi find the music" game
22:36 wizzyrea      it's one of my favourite games.
22:36 dcook         But...I wear new clothes and sensible glasses..
22:36 * pianohacker is listening to links now
22:36 rangi         https://soundcloud.com/dubstep/feel-the-fire-saturn-by-sgt
22:37 rangi         the drop is pretty epic, and it takes a long time to get there
22:37 wizzyrea      dcook: sometimes the things go together: https://soundcloud.com/soundremedy/daughter-medicine-sound-remedyyy
22:39 dcook         wizzyrea++
22:39 wizzyrea      ^ I happen to find that remix *amazing*
22:39 dcook         She's super nervous on stage
22:39 dcook         Saw them play back in February
22:39 rangi         course i dont just listen to dubstep
22:40 rangi         i listen to almost any random remix
22:40 wizzyrea      actually most of the sound remedy stuff I like quite well.
22:40 rangi         https://soundcloud.com/escort-agency/kylie-minogue-slow-sleng-teng  <-- for example
22:40 rangi         one for dcook, you cant live in australia and not worship kylie
22:41 dcook         lol
22:41 dcook         I'm not born here though, so I might get an exemption
22:41 dcook         I probably need to file some paperwork for it though...
22:41 wizzyrea      LIEs.
22:41 rangi         hehe
22:41 dcook         Friend of mine here in Sydney: https://soundcloud.com/jamesflamestar
22:41 wizzyrea      oh that feel the fire one is quite good
22:41 dcook         I especially like "Strawberries and Razorblades" from Stargazers
22:41 rangi         dcook: https://soundcloud.com/12thfloor/daughter-youth-love-thy  <-- maybe more your speed
22:42 * wizzyrea    is not super keen on ear bleeding dubstep
22:42 pianohacker   any love for chvrches?
22:42 dcook         ^
22:42 rangi         not after what happened last time
22:42 wizzyrea      I like the stuff that mixes progressive trance and dubstep
22:42 dcook         Oh, we drove her away
22:42 eythian       Norway's music scene has opinions on chvrches too...
22:43 rangi         dcook: i might also ambush people .. warning
22:43 * dcook       fetches a link for eythian
22:43 pianohacker   eythian: Norway?
22:43 wahanui       rumour has it Norway is beautiful
22:43 dcook         eythian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZGa40Hl4zI
22:44 pianohacker   I really like the london grammar remix, really nice vocal/dubsteppy mix
22:44 rangi         pianohacker: and the last link for today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88hU078nUQs
22:44 wizzyrea      https://soundcloud.com/soundremedy/wolf-alice-leaving-you-soundremedy
22:45 pianohacker   @rangi++
22:45 rangi         you can blame eythian for that one
22:45 huginn        pianohacker: downloading the Perl source
22:45 pianohacker   good stuff
22:45 pianohacker   dammit
22:45 eythian       dcook: Norway's major export: black metal.
22:45 pianohacker   rangi++
22:45 eythian       err ^-- pianohacker rather
22:45 wizzyrea      because they have darkness in their souls because long dark winters.
22:45 wizzyrea      or something.
22:45 wahanui       hmmm... something is sketchy
22:45 wizzyrea      it's me, I admit.
22:45 pianohacker   oh that wasn't a typo, the band CHVRCHES
22:45 pianohacker   derp
22:46 dcook         pianohacker: I've only listened to a few songs, but I've liked 'em
22:46 pianohacker   sweet :)
22:46 * wizzyrea    has not listened but will
22:46 wizzyrea      ah music day in #koha, I have missed it.
22:46 dcook         rangi, wizzyrea: digging both daughter remixxes
22:46 dcook         hehe
22:46 rangi         id totally go to a babymetal concert
22:47 wizzyrea      hehehe
22:47 rangi         looks hella fun
22:47 dcook         I still have yet to read that article..
22:48 rangi         eythian: imagine them opening kiwicon :)
22:48 eythian       heh
22:48 wizzyrea      l. o. l.
22:48 pianohacker   oh damn this feel the fire mix is goooood
22:48 eythian       rangi: I accidentally had two of those links playing at the same time about 0.2 seconds out, it sounds a lot better like that.
22:48 rangi         kiwicon last year was opened with a metal band
22:48 rangi         best opening keynote ever
22:48 wizzyrea      ^.^
22:49 dcook         another Norwegian export apparently: http://grooveshark.com/s/The+Fairy+Tale/2CI41o?src=5
22:49 dcook         Wha?
22:49 rangi         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moTXALu7BrI <--shaky camera angle, but you get the idea
22:51 dcook         I really need to cross the ditch sometime
22:52 dcook         You folks are neat
22:52 wizzyrea      pianohacker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xptIEkCHTZ4
22:53 pianohacker   wizzyrea++
22:53 eythian       dcook: that video was pretty great
22:53 dcook         Oh wow there's more after the song
22:54 pianohacker   ahh I'd forgotten how good this medicine remix was, the original is way too downtempo
23:16 pianohacker   wtf is going on with babymetal
23:16 rangi         heh
23:16 dcook         I love/hate that moment when you finally figure out the reason your program isn't working the way you think it should be working...
23:16 dcook         ...is because you forget to mod the index again after your initial test.
23:17 dcook         Err, indexing config rather..
23:17 * dcook       glares at the commented out 035 in records.abs
23:17 dcook         record.abs*
23:17 dcook         pianohacker: So what is the deal there? I haven't brought myself to reading about it yet
23:17 dcook         Partially, I'm not sure if I actually do want to know...
23:17 pianohacker   ... have you watched the video?
23:17 dcook         Nopes
23:18 pianohacker   dcook: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88hU078nUQs
23:18 dcook         I'm a little bit terrified
23:18 * dcook       takes a deep breath and clicks
23:18 wizzyrea      it's not as terrible as it seems like it should be
23:18 dcook         wth...
23:19 dcook         wizzyrea: So true
23:19 dcook         30 seconds in and I thought it would be much worse
23:19 pianohacker   there's that moment just a bit in where it goes from "*yawn* j-pop..." to "METAL DANCING KAWAII OF DOOM"
23:20 wizzyrea      @quote add Pianohacker: there's that moment just a bit in where it goes from "*yawn* j-pop..." to "METAL DANCING KAWAII OF DOOM"
23:20 huginn        wizzyrea: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
23:20 wizzyrea      curses.
23:21 wizzyrea      @quote add Pianohacker: there's that moment just a bit in where it goes from "*yawn* j-pop..." to "METAL DANCING KAWAII OF DOOM"
23:21 huginn        wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.  Quote #300 added.
23:21 wizzyrea      there we go.
23:21 wizzyrea      @quote random
23:21 pianohacker   wizzyrea: that hybrid video is interesting, I'm not sure what to think of that
23:21 huginn        wizzyrea: Quote #126: "<rangi> The beauty of Koha is we develop in the open, nothing is hidden so you can see what is going on at any time. [...] Koha grows through its strong and vibrant community, and the best users are the ones who invest the time in asking questions." (added by wizzyrea at 08:00 PM, April 14, 2011)
23:21 wizzyrea      @quote random
23:21 huginn        wizzyrea: Quote #192: "sekjal: running on master is a great way to catch bugs... but then you have bugs." (added by wizzyrea at 04:02 PM, March 09, 2012)
23:21 rangi         what a bunch of hippy drivel
23:21 rangi         who wrote that
23:21 wizzyrea      that guy, he's super idealistic.
23:21 pianohacker   some silly sappy dude
23:21 wizzyrea      it's awesome
23:22 wizzyrea      @quote random
23:22 huginn        wizzyrea: Quote #168: "gmcharlt: #koha is ALL the time" (added by chris_n at 09:01 PM, December 01, 2011)
23:22 wahanui       i already had it that way, huginn.
23:22 pianohacker   sort of dude who would welcome a shy 17-year-old into a coding community :)
23:23 dcook         pianohacker: That's perhaps one of the worst videos I've seen in quite some time
23:23 wizzyrea      get the popcorn
23:23 wahanui       Get it yourself, wizzyrea.
23:23 wizzyrea      <3 wahanui
23:24 dcook         My brain actually hurts now
23:24 pianohacker   dcook: Did you watch it all the way through?
23:24 pianohacker   dcook++ # for bravery
23:24 dcook         Unfortunately yes
23:24 dcook         It's genius though.
23:24 dcook         I bet they'll make a mint.
23:25 * dcook       goes back to his meandering post-rock for a bit.
23:25 dcook         Well, maybe not meandering...
23:25 dcook         mellow
23:26 pianohacker   Here, something a bit more trancey: https://soundcloud.com/blighters-1/oceanlab-feat-justine-suissa
23:26 pianohacker   prog house allegedly but whatever
23:26 dcook         Current track: http://grooveshark.com/s/Blues+Hour/6HYABZ?src=5
23:26 dcook         Finally coming around to Rave Tapes
23:28 wizzyrea      pianohacker: if you are not sensitive to strobe lighting, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8QcwjdrTM8&feature=kp
23:28 pianohacker   ah what a sell
23:28 wizzyrea      well you don't have to watch I reckon
23:29 pianohacker   wizzyrea: wait, is this the same orbital of halcyon (and on and on) fame?
23:29 wizzyrea      yep
23:29 wizzyrea      :)
23:29 pianohacker   cool! Thanks
23:29 wizzyrea      the not-live version is probably on grooveshark somewhere
23:30 pianohacker   omfg my keycaps are here brbbbbbbbbb
23:30 wizzyrea      orbital took several years off, then came back with a really amazing album
23:32 dcook         (Oh ElasticSearch...I yearn for you)
23:38 mtj           @wunder sydney, australia
23:38 huginn        mtj: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 24.0°C (10:00 AM EST on March 07, 2014). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 69%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady).
23:40 dcook         Hmm, getting warmer
23:40 dcook         Apparently my support emails are going to my junk mail as well. Nice one, Outlook.
23:40 dcook         I was wondering why it was quiet..
23:41 rangi         you use outlook?
23:41 rangi         poor you
23:42 dcook         Yeah, our work machines are all Windows :/
23:42 mtj           some good friday scrollback peeps :p
23:42 dcook         I suppose I could use Thunderbird although not sure what options there are for shared calendars..
23:43 * wizzyrea    has an easy way to fix that
23:44 wizzyrea      start -> run -> cmd -> format c: -> insert linux cd -> reboot
23:44 wizzyrea      </snark>
23:44 wizzyrea      :)
23:44 trea          and yet still true
23:48 dcook         hehe
23:49 dcook         I have a debian image and a blank dvd right there...
23:49 * wizzyrea    whispers "do... it...."
23:49 dcook         lol
23:49 dcook         It's not my computer so I can't really make that decision :p
23:50 dcook         You know Microsoft sucks when you have to Google how to do everything..
23:51 wizzyrea      well technically that's one of the signs that you're a good engineer, that you know which book to look in when you don't know :P
23:51 wizzyrea      but you're right! microsoft sucks!
23:51 dcook         true true
23:51 dcook         engineer/doctor/lawyer/etc
23:54 dcook         I was using MS Access 2010 or 2013 yesterday and it's help menu actually said something along the lines of "Don't use this option or you won't be able to do X"
23:54 dcook         As in you couldn't access certain functionality by short-cuts, menus, etc.
23:54 dcook         :S
23:54 dcook         Also, Access...*shudder*
23:57 pianohacker   The right hand has keycaps! https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1898192_10152298256073698_1058212689_n.jpg
23:57 wizzyrea      pianohacker: you and cjh should talk about this project.
23:58 pianohacker   ooh, he a keyboard nerd too? (and is he coming to hackfest?)
23:58 wizzyrea      ping cjh_ ^ see that link
23:58 wizzyrea      apropos of your keyboard ... thing
23:59 dcook         pianohacker: What is the project? I see bits and pieces here and there
23:59 pianohacker   dcook: This is the right hand of a keyboard kit I've been slowly soldering and assembling