Time Nick Message 01:08 pianohacker Jesus christ. I could throw whoever designed the 006/008 fields off a very high bridge and watch them go *splat* with glee 01:09 dcook pianohacker: I think she's dead 01:09 dcook http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henriette_Avram 01:10 dcook But I feel your pain :) 01:10 pianohacker ... why does the designer of MARC have to be a lovely old lady 01:11 dcook I think it's a paradox 01:15 rangi @wunder nzwn 01:15 huginn` rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 12.0°C (2:00 PM NZDT on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady). 01:15 rangi light rain 01:15 rangi hehe 01:16 eythian well, it can't fall because the wind is keeping it up. 01:19 wizzyrea oh they are funny 01:22 rangi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4PrJYD8RTo 01:22 rangi speaking of funny 01:31 wajasu not funny. 02:03 mayank I am importing records in koha from excel file. I have converted data into marc format. While importing records in koha if I select "Check for embeded item recod data" as Yes then it create mulitple items for book and save bar code. If I select it to No then no bar code is imported for the book. I only have one line per iteam. What should I do to have one iteam and bar code assigned to book? Sample data is available at http://ampletrails.com/koha_dat 02:08 rangi 15:32 < eythian> mayank: you're probably making a new 952 for each item entry, and each 952 will become its own item. 02:08 rangi 15:32 < eythian> You need to make it so that all the fields for the item go into the same 952. 03:18 mayank rangi: How can I make it that all the fields for the item go into the same 952. Is the link file need any change ? 03:22 rangi that link doesnt work for me 03:23 eythian mayank: the link is broken. Also, we don't know what tools you're using to create the marc, but there is probably an option in that tool. 03:49 mayank eythian: link is working for me. I am using Marcedit21 03:56 mtj hi #koha 03:57 mtj mayank, link doesnt work for me… 03:57 mtj ahh oops… gone already :( 03:58 bag heya mtj 03:58 mtj yo yo, big B 05:45 dcook Why yes...a thunder storm just as I'm finishing work does seem like a good idea... 06:09 cait good morning #koha 06:37 chandoi loz 06:48 mayank eythian: link is working for me. I am using Marcedit21 07:03 paxed can i have the MARC show in a single list, NOT tabbed, in staff client MARC details and marc edit? 07:09 mtj mayank, link only works for you - no one else… -> http://ampletrails.com/koha_dat 07:10 mtj hi paxed, yes… just make all MARC fields have the same tab number, for a fwrk 07:11 paxed ah 07:13 mtj > update marc_subfield_structure set tab = 0 where frameworkcode = 'XXX'; 07:13 mtj ...now everything for XXX fwrk, will show in single list, on tab 0 07:14 mtj hth :) 07:15 cait hm you shouldn't update 952 07:16 mtj ah, yeah - good point cait :) 07:17 mtj > update marc_subfield_structure set tab = 0 where frameworkcode = 'XXX' and tab <> 9; 07:17 paxed mtj: right, that works. thanks. 07:19 paxed tab <> 9? do you mean tab<>10? 07:21 mtj oops, i mean tab 10 :p 07:21 mtj sorry, was pretty close 07:21 * magnuse waves 07:21 mtj whew, thanks $god for those backups... 07:21 magnuse kia ora mtj! 07:22 mtj kia ora magnuse :) 07:22 mtj paxed ^^ 07:23 mtj paxed, i am glad one of us is paying attention 07:34 paxed is there any disadvantage in converting unicode chars to entities in biblioitems.marcxml? 07:39 reiveune hello 07:41 mtj paxed, maybe lots of double-encoding problems? 07:42 mtj i think its a no-no 07:50 paxed hm. i guess mysql character_set_database should be utf8 instead of latin1 ... 07:55 magnuse yup, the more utf8 the better 07:56 alex_a bonjour 07:56 magnuse paxed: you might want to look at the collations for your tables though, it might affect sorting (it's something i have been meaning to look into for a looong time) 07:56 magnuse bonjour alex_a 07:56 paxed magnuse: shouldn't zebra handle that? 08:02 alex_a bonjour magnuse 08:09 Joubu1 hi 08:20 magnuse paxed: for bibliographic records, yes. but not for everything else that is stored in and sorted by the db. like patrons 08:20 magnuse hiya Joubu 08:24 cait good morning #koha 08:24 magnuse hiya cait 08:26 cait hiya magnuse 08:50 matts hi #koha ! 08:53 cait hi matts :) 09:00 ashimema hi all 09:01 cait hi ashimema :) 09:01 ashimema matts, appologies, I've been pants on getting that regular borrower imports patch up anywhere public... not had a moment to touch it again yet. 09:02 matts okay, no problem :) 09:04 ashimema :) 09:25 nlegrand hey #koha 09:26 cait developers_talking++ 09:26 cait hi nlegrand 09:29 pianohacker Woo midnight oil 09:31 ashimema hello pianohacker 09:31 wahanui hello pianohacker are you there? 09:32 nlegrand I try to make my zebra full reindex (rebuild_zebra.pl -a -b -r -x -w) outside my koha server (too long, too ressource greedy) and then rsync the zebradb on the koha server. It fails :). Is there a way to do this kind of things or should I always rebuild on the koha server? 09:59 mtj nlegrand, ots probably more trouble that it is worth you :/ 09:59 mtj its 10:00 mtj try using ionice/nice to make the process less greedy 10:11 cait hi drojf :) 10:11 cait hi khall :) 10:11 khall mornin cait! 10:12 drojf hi cait 10:12 drojf hi #koha 10:16 nlegrand mtj: I was afraid of something like that :). Thanks. 10:16 nlegrand Let's plan a shortage ^^ 10:26 ashimema anyone been getting: Can't call method "data" on an undefined value at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Search.pm line 1716. 10:26 ashimema in the packages recently.. 10:35 magnuse ashimema: not recently. which version? 10:39 * pianohacker is out of midnight oil, bye all 10:43 cait ashimema: i hate that one, can never figure out why it happens 10:51 ashimema latest.. 10:51 wahanui it has been said that latest is 3.6.4 10:52 ashimema jut ran an apt upgrade so 3.14.04 10:52 ashimema just run the rebuild with verbose.. seems rebuild is unable to parse records :( 10:52 ashimema wondering whats changed 11:04 cait hm 11:04 cait sometimes the problem seems to be related to framework set 11:04 cait up 11:04 cait koha2marc-linkings 11:04 cait missing biblionumbers... 11:05 ashimema cheers cait 11:05 cait and there is a script that can help find broken records - soemthing with slice in it 11:07 ashimema it's every record.. 11:07 ashimema that's part of the problem.. 11:07 ashimema and search was working fine only last week. 11:08 ashimema just trackng donw what hcnages our team have made since then. 11:10 ashimema sadly.. the mapping all looks in order to me :( 11:10 cait hm and zebra doesn't tell you more? 11:10 cait there is a double -v option 11:10 cait for even more output 11:11 cait -v -v i think 11:20 ashimema double v give's me no further detail 11:20 ashimema nor tripple ;) 11:35 magnuse ashimema: http://demo.bibkat.no/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=lessig&branch_group_limit= is 3.14.4 from the packages - search seems to be ok there 11:37 * magnuse is scheduled to upgrade customers to 3.14.4 today 12:02 cait ashimema: hmmmm i thoguth there was an option for even more verbose 12:02 cait did you check the help page? 12:02 ashimema I think it may be data related at our end.. 12:03 ashimema well.. data/config 12:03 ashimema still investigating 12:04 cait good luck! 12:47 tcohen morning! 12:47 wahanui morning is a state of cat 13:10 cait hola tcohen :) 13:10 tcohen hi cait 13:11 oleonard Hi everyone 13:11 cait hi oleonard :) 13:23 magnuse ooh, meeting in 4 hours 36 minutes 13:23 cait thx for the reminder 13:23 cait :) 13:24 magnuse who sends a reminder to the lists? 13:25 * magnuse does not volunteer 13:28 oleonard I'll do it 13:28 magnuse oleonard++ 13:59 oleonard I added an item to the agenda about procedures for LESS compiling and other client-side asset handling. I hope that's agreeable. 14:00 cait :) 14:00 cait which time is right now? 14:01 oleonard ? 14:03 cait colin said the link and text don't match on the list 14:03 cait now i am confused :) 14:03 oleonard Ugh, did I get the time wrong? I thought I pasted it right from the wiki entry 14:07 oleonard http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Koha+General+IRC+Meeting&iso=20140305T19 14:07 oleonard Does that look right now? 14:09 * magnuse fixed the wiki 14:10 magnuse so the meeting is in hours? 14:10 oleonard Yes :) 14:10 magnuse so the meeting is in *5* hours? 14:10 magnuse lol 14:10 * magnuse is too tired 14:15 cait 20:00? 14:15 cait oleonard: i am easy to confuse with timezones... 14:20 rhcl @wunder 64507 14:20 rhcl huggin? 14:20 wahanui huggin is probably a bot 14:21 rhcl dead bot apparently 14:21 * oleonard shakes huggin and shouts "Don't you die on me! You never gave up on anything in your life!!" 14:22 rhcl pour coffed down its throat and shock it with 21 AAA batteries 14:23 rhcl coffee 14:23 rhcl maybe I need just a little jolt 14:25 rhcl @later tell gmcharlt kickstart huggin? 14:26 rhcl ovbiously that wont work either 14:37 Dyrcona rhcl: I did a later for gmcharlt in #evergreen on your behalf. :) 14:37 rhcl cool, tnx 14:38 * cait waves at Dyrcona 14:38 * Dyrcona waves. 14:39 cait Joubu++ :) 15:17 cait ashimema++ as well :) 15:29 gmcharlt @quote random 15:29 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #257: "<pianohacker> That code has enough smells to start a perfume shop" (added by wizzyrea at 10:13 PM, June 12, 2013) 15:31 Dyrcona I like that quote! 15:32 cait heh 15:32 cait @quote random 15:32 huginn cait: Quote #285: "<cait> maybe we should keep #koha for the cookies, and split off a dev chat :)" (added by gmcharlt at 09:26 PM, December 16, 2013) 15:32 cait maybe I shoudl add that to today's agenda? :) 15:40 druthb @quote random 15:40 huginn druthb: Quote #26: "<chris> as an aside C4::Search makes my brain hurt" (added by jdavidb at 09:21 PM, August 22, 2009) 15:40 cait @quote random 15:40 huginn cait: Quote #226: "<wizzyrea> like someone would do quote add someone: something funny" (added by gmcharlt at 09:57 PM, December 27, 2012) 15:41 cait @quote random 15:41 huginn cait: Quote #85: "owen: Nothing says embracing my geekness like participating in an IRC meeting about software licenses!" (added by kf at 12:23 PM, July 14, 2010) 15:46 Oak @wunder Konstanz 15:46 huginn Oak: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 8.3°C (4:45 PM CET on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Windchill: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady). 15:46 Oak @wunder islamabad 15:46 huginn Oak: The current temperature in Islamabad, Pakistan is 15.0°C (8:00 PM PKT on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Pressure: (Rising). 15:46 Oak Hi cait, druthb, everyone! 15:46 Oak magnuse 15:49 cait hi Oak :) 15:49 Oak :) 15:57 smi logout 15:58 Oak okay 16:03 rhcl @wunder 64507 16:03 huginn rhcl: The current temperature in Wyatt Park, St Joseph, Missouri is 0.3°C (10:03 AM CST on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: -4.0°C. Windchill: 0.0°C. Pressure: 30.24 in 1024 hPa (Rising). 16:03 rhcl he's back. tnx gmcharlt 16:42 druthb @wunder 77098 16:42 huginn druthb: The current temperature in Greenway Plaza, Houston, Texas is 7.8°C (10:42 AM CST on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Windchill: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Falling). 16:42 rhcl humm, isn't that cool for Houston? 16:42 tcohen @wunder cordoba, argentina 16:43 huginn tcohen: The current temperature in Bo Alto de San Martin, Cordoba City, Argentina is 30.1°C (1:40 PM ART on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 32%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady). 16:44 druthb it is chilly in Houston, for march. We had another round of icing yesterday. 16:44 druthb Supposed to get up to 20 or so by Friday. We shall see. 16:59 reiveune bye 17:21 mtompset Greetings, #koha. 17:23 Oak hello mtompset 17:23 mtompset Greetings, Oak. 17:23 mtompset Are you going to be around for the meeting? 17:47 Oak mtompset, well, i can try. but, it'll be at 12:00am my time. and i have to get up really early. 17:48 mtompset Ah, okay. 17:48 mtompset Well, there's always the log files, right? :) 17:48 Oak yeah, but live is live. 18:03 mtompset The game is only on once. :) 18:03 wajasu mtompset: i was looking into signing off bug 11489. i was trying some more extensive test scenarios along th lines of cait's comment #19. 18:03 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11489 normal, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , OPAC search results in 404 error when the only search result is supressed 18:04 mtompset Okay, and? 18:04 wajasu i did a simple patch to get hidelostitems total count to work, but it seems more invloved. 18:06 mtompset Well, the problem is you can't get it to work fully, because the full result set is never passed back, so you don't know how many are actually hidden. And it could change from page to page/result set to result set. 18:06 mtompset This is why facets returned from Zebra (or whatever search engine) are the best way to fix this sort of problem. 18:07 mtompset If the query to get the results actually excluded the lost items in the first place, then it would be easily done. 18:08 wajasu thats what i thought. 18:09 wajasu it looks like there is some attempt. commented out code pertaining to hidelostitems. must not work. 18:10 mtompset It's been a while since I looked at that code. 18:12 Oak yeah 18:13 wajasu i added code in the for loop, but the join is against biblioitems. i think we need to get the item lost and count accordingly, and subtract from the total. i did a simple fix, but I think the results only get the first item, and when you subsequent are lost, .. 18:14 mtompset wajasu: If I recall, there is another problem... 18:14 wajasu so we need to grab all the items to look ate the lost flag. 18:14 mtompset The [0] is hardcoded. 18:14 mtompset And I think that plays into this. 18:15 Oak wajasu++ 18:15 Oak mtompset++ 18:15 * Oak sleepy. see you later #koha. 18:17 wajasu do you recall whan [0] is? is it the 1st item? 18:17 wajasu whan/what 18:17 mtompset Yes... there is an array reference to the first item [0]... 18:17 mtompset it should have a tiny loop to look for the first non-hidden/lost item. 18:17 mtompset and not hardcode 0. 18:18 mtompset let's see if I can find and remember this mess. 18:18 wajasu i agree. 18:18 mtompset bug 8168 is easier to sign off. ;) 18:18 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8168 minor, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , ersatz CSV header in attachment of overdue notices sent to administrator 18:19 wajasu i can look at 8168 18:32 magnuse meeting in ~30 minutes, right? 18:34 ColinC yes 18:35 * cait is ready :) 18:37 mtompset Greetings, magnuse cait. :) 18:37 mtompset Greetings, ColinC. :) 18:40 magnuse hiya mtompset and ColinC 18:41 cait and hi ColinC, magnuse and mtompset 18:42 ColinC hi all 18:44 cait hm could be quick tonight 18:47 * cait waves at peggy :) 18:51 peggy Hi Cait! 18:52 mveron Hi #koha 18:52 cait hi mveron :) 18:52 mveron hi cait :-) 18:53 mveron @wunder allschwil 18:53 huginn mveron: The current temperature in Wetter Allschwil, Allschwil, Switzerland is 7.3°C (7:53 PM CET on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Windchill: 7.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady). 18:54 peggy light snow in the air here - kind of pretty 18:55 * cait wonders if there is enough time left for making tea 18:55 cait hm gonna try, brb 18:58 mtompset Run cait run! :) 18:58 magnuse wb oleonard-away 18:59 cait back 19:00 * magnuse suspects cait of instant tea and hot water from the tap 19:00 cait nope 19:00 cait it's tea bags, but i boiled the water :) 19:00 gmcharlt :0 19:01 magnuse poor water 19:02 magnuse or should that be "pour water"? 19:02 mveron Tea bags were a misunderstanding, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_bag 19:02 mveron The loose tea was intended to be removed from the sample bags by customers, but they found it easier to brew the tea with the tea still enclosed in the porous bags. 19:02 mveron :-) 19:03 rhcl is the meeting over? 19:03 jcamins mveron: interesting! 19:03 wahanui interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad 19:04 oleonard The meeting should be starting now? 19:04 mtompset rhcl: That would be pretty fast if it was. 19:04 mtompset It should be, as far as I know. 19:04 rhcl @wunder time 19:04 huginn rhcl: Error: No such location could be found. 19:04 mtompset @wunder Dublin 19:04 gmcharlt give me a moemnt to get organized, and I'm happy to run it 19:04 huginn mtompset: Error: No such location could be found. 19:04 mtompset @wunder Dublin, ireland 19:04 huginn mtompset: The current temperature in Swords West, Swords, Ireland is 9.4°C (7:04 PM GMT on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Windchill: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Rising). 19:05 gmcharlt #startmeeting Koha General Meeting, 5 March 2014 19:05 huginn Meeting started Wed Mar 5 19:05:02 2014 UTC. The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:05 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 19:05 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'koha_general_meeting__5_march_2014' 19:05 mtompset wajasu++ #thanks for the sign off. 19:05 gmcharlt #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_5_March_2014 Agenda 19:05 gmcharlt #topic Introductions 19:05 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 19:05 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett 19:05 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ 19:05 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries 19:05 magnuse #info Magnus Enger, Oslo Public Library, Norway 19:05 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.16RM, Equinox, USA 19:05 jwagner #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS 19:05 peggy #info Peggy Thrasher, NH, USA 19:05 jsasse #info Joel Sasse, MN USA 19:06 ColinC #info Colin Campbell, PTFS-Europe 19:06 mveron #info Marc Véron, marc veron ag (www.veron.ch), Allschwil, Switzerland, member of Koha Support Schweiz 19:06 jcamins #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services 19:06 rhcl #info rhcl = Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library, St. Joseph, MO, USA -ro 19:06 clintD #info clint deckard, Anact,NZ 19:07 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin 19:08 gmcharlt ok 19:09 gmcharlt #topic Maintenance release updates 19:09 gmcharlt RMaints for 3.8, 3.10, 3.12, and 3.14, please give any updates you have now 19:10 cait I guess bad timing - none of them seems around? 19:11 gmcharlt ok, we'll just assume that they're all hunky-dory 19:11 gmcharlt #info No particular updates from the RMaints - no news is good news 19:11 gmcharlt #info 3.14.4 released on February 26 19:11 gmcharlt #info 3.12.11 released on February 25 19:12 gmcharlt #topic Update on 3.16 19:12 gmcharlt #info RM will be clearing the passed QA queue (via pushing or throwing patches back) prior to the Marseille hackfest 19:12 gmcharlt #info QA team is currently working on patch signoff and patch rescue during this period 19:13 mtompset When is the hackfest again? 19:13 magnuse mtompset: next week! 19:13 wahanui rumour has it next week is project week 19:13 gmcharlt #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Developers_IRC_Meeting,_February_25,_2014 notes and minutes from the 25 February IRC dev meeting 19:13 magnuse gmcharlt: are there dates for feature freeze et al yet? 19:14 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt will set firm dates for feature freeze immediate after hackfest 19:14 gmcharlt #info The Marseille Hackfest runs from 10-14 March 19:15 cait gmcharlt++ 19:15 magnuse gmcharlt++ 19:15 gmcharlt any other questions? 19:16 gmcharlt #topic KohaCon 2014 19:17 gmcharlt looks like neither tcohen or bgkriegel are here, so this may be brief 19:17 gmcharlt ... and so it is 19:17 gmcharlt #topic KohaCon 2015 19:18 gmcharlt #info question was posed as to whether it is time to start site-selection for the 2015 conference 19:18 gmcharlt seems reasonable to me 19:18 * cait agrees 19:18 gmcharlt are there any volunteers here who want to go ahead and get that started? 19:19 gmcharlt @monologue 19:19 huginn gmcharlt: Your current monologue is at least 2 lines long. 19:20 oleonard Looks like the first call for 2014 proposals was June 2013? 19:20 gmcharlt in that case, doesn't hurt to defer for a bit longer 19:20 cait oleonard: maybe the next host wants to have it a bit earlier in the year - I think starting now would not hurt 19:21 gmcharlt yeah, to split the difference, a bit earlier than June for CFP would be good, but don't necessarily need to do it instantly 19:21 oleonard Whoops, cait just volunteered! ;) 19:21 cait ah sorry no 19:22 cait i have my hands pretty full already 19:22 gmcharlt :) 19:22 gmcharlt how about just an action item to put this on the agenda for the April meeting? 19:22 jsasse +1 19:22 cait +1 19:22 mveron +1 19:22 magnuse +1 19:22 ColinC +1 19:23 gmcharlt #action Galen will put getting the site-selection process starting for KohaCon 2015 on the April general meeting agenda 19:23 gmcharlt #topic Compiling LESS files more 19:23 gmcharlt (sorry, I could. not. resist.) 19:23 magnuse lol 19:24 gmcharlt #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Working_with_Bootstrap_OPAC_LESS_files info on compiling LESS files 19:24 cait :) 19:24 gmcharlt oleonard: here's my current thinking - 19:24 gmcharlt it would be easy enough to make a build target to recompile the less 19:24 gmcharlt which would mean it would be done during installation and updates 19:25 gmcharlt however... I have a question I'd like your opinion on 19:25 gmcharlt what would be your recommendation for somebody who wants to incoporate this into their OPAC customization tweaks 19:25 gmcharlt override bits of CSS is one thing 19:25 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agggme, New York City 19:26 gmcharlt but let's say somebody wants to do something like tweak the height of the navbar to accommodate a taller logo? 19:26 gmcharlt how would you recommend they go about that? 19:26 gmcharlt and is there call, you think, for compiling LESS files to potentially become part of the standard toolkit for tweaks? 19:27 cait hm it feels like the LESS would make more sense if you are using a css file opposed to the opacusercss? 19:27 oleonard There's no reason why folks can't customize using plain CSS, even while incorporated more complex tools like media queries. I don't think LESS needs to enter into the equation 19:28 wajasu what if tweakable bits are in sysprefs, and upon save, less is run to compile a new customized css file? 19:28 oleonard But I could foresee a system which took custom CSS from system preferences and automatically minified it and concatenated it with Koha's built-in CSS 19:28 jcamins If I were to customize dramatically based on the Bootstrap theme, I would use LESS. 19:29 oleonard I doubt most would do that much 19:29 jcamins But my feeling is anyone doing that level of customization is going to be figuring it out themselves, so I see no need to make special allowances for it. 19:29 jcamins oleonard: it would have to be pretty dramatic. 19:30 gmcharlt well, not necessarily /that/ dramatic -- changing the height of the navbar is, AFAICT, best done via LESS 19:30 gmcharlt though I'm open to suggestions that I'm wrong on that point 19:31 oleonard Along with LESS compiling, the other thing I have in mind is incorporating tasks using something like Grunt: http://gruntjs.com/ 19:31 jcamins gmcharlt: that's true, but that seems kind of dramatic to me. 19:32 gmcharlt meh, not every library's logo fits well into a constraint that it be < 40 px tall 19:32 gmcharlt of course, there are other options for placing it 19:32 peggy It wouldn't see dramatic to a non-technical librarian 19:32 peggy seem 19:33 jcamins The reason I find that dramatic is that just changing the height of the navbar doesn't really seem to me to be enough... though maybe it's just a mouse and cookie problem. 19:34 magnuse peggy: very true! 19:34 wahanui I know. That's why I said it. 19:35 gmcharlt one second, I'm writing something up for BZ on this 19:36 jcamins (i.e. I might start out changing the height of the navbar, but by the time I'm done, I can reasonably expect to have changed a skajillion other things too; otherwise I could just override the places where the variable is used) 19:38 gmcharlt jcamins: right, but AIUI, that's the point of recompiling -- for certain things, you just set a Bootstrap variable, and it recalculates everything for you during the compilation 19:38 gmcharlt i.e., that certain types of changes would be basically one-liners in the LESS, but become larger in the generated CSS 19:38 magnuse aiui? 19:38 wahanui aiui is As I Understand It 19:39 cait wahanui++ 19:39 mveron https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/AIUI 19:39 oleonard Note that while that may be true for stock Bootstrap CSS it's not true for the bootstrap theme's LESS. We would need to make improvements. 19:40 bag #info Brendan Gallagher bywater 19:40 oleonard The bootstrap theme's LESS file only begins to implement all the features possible with LESS 19:40 gmcharlt bug 11896 19:40 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11896 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , add tools for compiling LESS files 19:41 gmcharlt oleonard: jcamins: ^^ does this seem reasonable for a next step 19:41 gmcharlt blithely pushing aside, for the moment, the question of user-level customization task that would be best done via tweakign the LESS? 19:42 oleonard gmcharlt: Could this process be done so that instead of triggering the LESS compile directly it triggered a grunt task which included LESS file compilation? 19:42 jcamins That seems reasonable. Until we can build the LESS and cache it on the fly, OpacUserCSS is going to seem vastly preferable for anything that doesn't involve large numbers of changes, though, at least in my opinion. 19:43 jcamins (not that I think that generating the CSS on the fly is a crucial behavior that needs to be added NOW NOW NOW, just noting that the fact that we can compile our own LESS stylesheets doesn't make it a better idea than writing our own opac.css files for relatively small changes) 19:44 thd Is there an advantage to using less for web browser client specific changes or are all proper advantages of less server side? 19:44 gmcharlt oleonard: not necessarily opposed to grunt, but I note that it's not packaged by Debian 19:45 thd s/less/LESS/ 19:45 oleonard gmcharlt: Hm, understandable. 19:45 wahanui understandable. is probably why i was running it against a local copy 19:46 gmcharlt on the other hand, things like https://www.npmjs.org/package/npm2debian might obviate that difficulty 19:46 gmcharlt dunno - experimentation required 19:46 gmcharlt but I'll add a comment to the bug with that suggsetion 19:47 gmcharlt cait has suggested that LESS-compilation be added to the agenda for the next dev meeting 19:47 wajasu what dists is npm packaged on? 19:47 gmcharlt and I'm inclined to agree 19:47 gmcharlt wajasu: npm itself is packaged only for Debian 19:47 gmcharlt gah 19:47 gmcharlt for Debian Jessie 19:48 gmcharlt for Ubuntu, looks like precise is the first release it's avaiable for 19:49 gmcharlt OK, to wrap up, I think 19:49 gmcharlt #info bug 11896 should be used for hashing out patches for adding LESS-compilation to the install/upgrade process 19:49 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11896 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , add tools for compiling LESS files 19:49 gmcharlt #action gmcharlt will add LESS compilation to the agenda for the dev meeting next week 19:50 gmcharlt oleonard: anything else on this for the moemtn? 19:50 mtompset There's a dev meeting next week? 19:51 oleonard gmcharlt: yes 19:51 cait mtompset: yes 19:51 gmcharlt mtompset: see http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_15_00_utc.2014-02-25-14.59.html 19:51 gmcharlt #info Next dev meeting is scheduled for 15UTC and 21UTC on 12 March 2014 19:52 mtompset Okay. Thank you for the clarifications. 19:52 gmcharlt #topic Announcements 19:52 gmcharlt anyboyd? 19:53 * cait has none 19:53 oleonard gmcharlt: Question 19:53 wahanui Question is "What is the meaning of life, the universe and everything?" 19:54 gmcharlt oleonard: answer 19:54 cait maybe just: be prepared for lots of bugzilla mails next week :) and keep an eye on your patches? :) 19:54 oleonard Where has this discussion gotten us? 19:54 oleonard Are we still asking devs to submit patches containing both LESS modifications and compiled CSS? 19:54 oleonard ...until we get something else in place? 19:54 gmcharlt oleonard: from my POV it has gotten us to closer to setting up a install target 19:55 gmcharlt as far as LESS via CSS... ultimately LESS will be the only thing that gets stored in the Git tree 19:55 gmcharlt and as far as dealing with patches that include LESS vs. CSS, my inclination is to take the LESS as authoritative 19:56 gmcharlt and (pending further discussion at next week's meeting, I think) toss back any new ones that /only/ touch the CSS 19:57 gmcharlt oleonard: does that answer your question? 19:58 oleonard yes 19:58 cait so qa will fail when the less changes aremissing? 19:59 magnuse should this be added to the coding guidelines? 19:59 gmcharlt eventually - obviously there should be some sort of grace period 19:59 gmcharlt I don't think it needs to be in the coding guidelines, actually 19:59 gmcharlt agreement on koha-devel should suffice 19:59 gmcharlt reason: there ultimately won't be CSS files for Bootstrap in teh Git tree for folks to edit 20:00 thd If it would not be in the coding guidelines, how should everyone be expected to know? 20:00 magnuse ah, true 20:00 wajasu wiki? 20:00 wahanui wiki is http://wiki.koha-community.org 20:00 cait i think having some clear instructions would be good - on how to edit the css 20:01 cait how to do it right 20:01 mveron cait + 20:01 cait i am a bit lost there myself right now 20:01 * magnuse too 20:01 wajasu this all we have now: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Working_with_Bootstrap_OPAC_LESS_files 20:01 gmcharlt to reiterate, ultimately there would be no CSS to edit 20:01 cait not sure i understand less right 20:01 cait but wouldn't you have to generate one for testing your changes? 20:02 gmcharlt yes, but as a generated artificat, it wouldn't be stored in the Git tree, and you wouldn't be genreating patches against it 20:02 gmcharlt just the source LESS fiels 20:02 cait yeah, i was more thinking aobut a tutorial on 'how do i change the styling of X now' :) 20:03 gmcharlt ah 20:03 gmcharlt well, wouln't actually be much different 20:03 gmcharlt since for most things, the LESS files are very similar to CSS 20:03 gmcharlt so it would be (a) edit the LESS (b) run a command to generate/refresh the CSS (c) test 20:04 wajasu the tester must compile the patched LESS files. the person submitting the patch might be nice and supply the test plan with how to compile to the target CSS file. 20:05 thd Certainly a prominent tutorial would be needed to keep Koha user friendly. 20:07 oleonard There is no reason why an individual patch would require a test plan describing the compile process 20:07 oleonard The process is the same for any LESS file changes. 20:08 gmcharlt and that's the point of things like the update_zebra_conf (sp?) makefile target 20:09 gmcharlt and a similar one could be created for LESS compilation 20:09 gmcharlt it's not beyond the realm of possibility that Git hooks could automate it 20:09 gmcharlt *however*, I think we're getting off into the weeds here -- further commentary on the bug, please 20:09 mveron That would be great. 20:09 mveron (automating) 20:10 gmcharlt #topic Setting time for next meeting 20:10 gmcharlt given the number of meetings this month 20:10 gmcharlt I propose 9 April as the date 20:11 magnuse +1 20:11 jsasse +1 20:11 gmcharlt as far as timing goes, I woudl like to propose an experiment 20:11 gmcharlt namely, a split meeting, 15UTC + 21UTC, similar to the last dev meeting 20:12 gmcharlt I feel that the current rotation we're on ends up resulting in at least 1/3 of the general meetings being barely attended at all 20:12 cait +1 20:12 ColinC +1 20:12 oleonard +1 20:12 magnuse +1 for experimenting 20:13 jwagner +1 worth a try 20:13 mveron +1 experimenting 20:13 thd +1 # Most any experiment for better attended meeting times. 20:13 clintD +1 20:13 peggy +1 20:13 jsasse +1 20:14 wajasu +1 20:14 gmcharlt #agreed The next general meeting will be a split one at 15UTC and 21UTC on 9 April 2014 20:14 mtompset +1 # worth the experiment. 20:15 gmcharlt I will also make a point of specifically mentioning this experiment on the general mailing list 20:15 gmcharlt thanks, everybody! 20:15 gmcharlt #endmeeting 20:15 huginn Meeting ended Wed Mar 5 20:15:26 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 20:15 huginn Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/koha_general_meeting__5_march_2014.2014-03-05-19.05.html 20:15 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/koha_general_meeting__5_march_2014.2014-03-05-19.05.txt 20:15 huginn Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/koha_general_meeting__5_march_2014.2014-03-05-19.05.log.html 20:15 cait gmcharlt++ # thx 20:15 cait :) 20:16 thd oleonard: During the meeting, you had mentioned something about many more uses for LESS. Would you mention some others? 20:16 oleonard thd: http://lesscss.org/features/ 20:17 oleonard thd: Not more uses for LESS, but more features in LESS which we could take advantage of 20:18 oleonard The bootstrap theme's LESS file uses some variables, some mixins, lots of nesting, but no operations or functions for instance 20:18 thd oleanord: Thanks, I understand better with the distinction about features. 20:19 cait oleonard++ 20:19 cait i am starting to get a better idea of it too 20:21 mveron Looks interesting... 20:21 thd oleonard: Is there any dynamic run time functionality in LESS or is it entirely for a compile once process for serving static CSS files? 20:22 oleonard thd: You can use JavaScript to "compile" LESS on the fly if you want. 20:24 thd oleonard: What I am thinking of is would it be useful for dynamically generating CSS files specific to particular web browser features, such as window size, detected during a browsing session? 20:25 oleonard Other technologies do that. The media queries in the bootstrap theme's CSS change the OPAC's layout based on window size for instance. 20:25 oleonard JavaScript "polyfills" can help emulate new CSS features which older browsers don't have 20:28 mtompset which level of HTML compliance are we working on having? 20:28 mtompset which standard? 20:28 oleonard html5 20:28 rangi here's what ive been doing http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha-translations.git;a=summary 20:28 cait moving the po files? 20:29 rangi just copied so far, but id like to get bernardo to commit to there, instead of to the main repo 20:29 rangi then a symlink, before building the tarball/release should pull them all in 20:29 cait cool 20:29 rangi once that is working fine, then remove them from the main one 20:30 rangi it wont drop the size, but it will slow it growing, by a lot 20:30 tcohen bernardo has been playing with that idea of yours rangi (hi rangi) 20:30 rangi cool 20:32 oleonard Bye everyone. See you all in 17 hours or so 20:43 mveron Bye #koha 21:06 eythian hi 21:07 cait hi eythian 21:09 rhcl hi eythian 21:09 mtompset Greetings, eythian. :) 21:48 tcohen how can I pass a function reference to a template? 21:49 tcohen for example, I'd like to do smth like: 21:49 tcohen $template->param( CMISImageURL => &C4::External::CMIS::image_url() ); 21:50 tcohen and use it: <img src="[% CMISImageURL( SEARCH_RESULT.normalized_isbn ) %]" alt="" class="item-thumbnail" /> 21:51 tcohen would that work? 21:52 wizzyrea does anyone have development in the work to make long overdue not charge based on borrower category? 21:52 wizzyrea i.e. borrower category "staff" doesn't get replacement charges applied 21:53 wizzyrea in the works* 21:56 cait wizzyrea: havne't seen something on bugzilla 21:57 wizzyrea yeah, I don't either, which actually surprises me a lot! 21:57 wizzyrea feels like it ought to be a parameter in the circ rules 21:57 wizzyrea "charge lost items" or something 22:00 bag seems silly to me to waste the time on that dev - when the staff member can just waive their own fines or override the renewal 22:00 bag wait by time - I totally meant money :P 22:01 gmcharlt tcohen: yes - http://www.template-toolkit.org/docs/manual/Variables.html#section_Subroutines 22:01 wizzyrea well what about say, homebound borrowers? 22:01 tcohen gmcharlt: thanks. 22:01 tcohen gmcharlt: is &C4::External::CMIS::image_url() kosher? 22:02 gmcharlt tcohen: I think you need \&C4::... 22:02 wizzyrea I agree it might be a 123, but apparently it causes enough consternation for someone to ask for it. 22:05 wizzyrea or libraries that don't want to charge their volunteers lost charges. Though to me, if you lose a book from the library you really ought to be responsible for replacing it, even if you're staff :P 22:05 gmcharlt however, I have an inchoate sense that it's better to take the time to write a TT plugin module, as opening the door to surfacing core APIs in templates fees like it could mix levels too much 22:06 gmcharlt wizzyrea: as a data point, I try to encourage folks not to use staff accounts for their own borrowing 22:06 wizzyrea yeah that's a good plan. 22:08 gmcharlt and there are libraries where getting caught waiving one's own fines would be grounds for discipline 22:11 wizzyrea ^ this actually reads like a roundabout argument *for* allowing certain categories to be systematically excluded from fees 22:11 wizzyrea to me 22:11 wizzyrea "the system handles that, you don't touch it" 22:11 wizzyrea but that is a people problem, not a tech problem. 22:12 eythian tcohen: I tend to agree with gmcharlt there, we should try to avoid poking directly into C4 from TT, it's too tight coupling. 22:13 cait wizzyrea: we don't use the long overdues script 22:13 tcohen eythian and gmcharlt: i'm evaluating the difficulty to do something like C4::External::* do 22:13 cait wizzyrea: so it hasn#t come up 22:13 tcohen do you think those should be template plugins instead too? 22:14 tcohen (i prefer to do it as a template plugin too, didn't think of it before, and will do it that way) 22:14 eythian even a plugin that just passes through access. That way there is an obvious boundary. 22:16 gmcharlt yeah 22:17 gmcharlt wizzyrea: and indeed, yes, you've surfaced something implicit in my comments 22:18 gmcharlt i.e., if you're going to have a stated policy of not charging or waiving certain types of fines for specified patron groups, having the code manage it could be useful 22:29 cait good night all 22:32 wizzyrea good night cait 22:41 jsasse #quit 23:00 rhcl I musta missed the winner of the NA Koha Users Group. Was it announced somewhere? Who won? 23:00 rhcl the meeting, I mean 23:12 bag rhcl NCRL won 23:51 mtompset Greetings, tcohen. :) 23:54 mtompset Greetings, wizzyrea. 23:54 tcohen hi mtompset 23:56 mtompset Okay. This is probably a dumb sounding question, but is the difference between acquisitions and cataloguing basically whether you ordered it, or you discovered you already had a copy?