Time  Nick               Message
23:59 wizzyrea           like wacky integrations.
23:59 wizzyrea           i have only observed it in 3.12, but I thought it was a side effect of something else
23:59 trea               good point wahanui
23:58 wahanui            since when are you normal people?
23:58 trea               since when?
23:58 wizzyrea           ooo can ya not? I thought you could
23:44 eythian            so you can no longer log in to the opac using the database user details?
23:41 tweetbot_          [off] @wizzyrea: "https://t.co/1pInWMdWJz I think this is interesting - crowd funding for open source software. Wonder if #KohaILS could benefit."
22:47 tweetbot_          [off] @nzKoha: "A chance to become a #KohaILS developer for librarians attending #lianza2013 http://t.co/76vaGCzFdx"
22:30 wahanui            okay, tcohen.
22:30 tcohen             wahanui: feature slush is also the date stuff that got passed-qa makes it into 3.14 with high probability
22:28 wahanui            OK, tcohen.
22:28 tcohen             wahanui: feature slush is september 25
22:28 wahanui            tcohen: I forgot feature slush
22:28 tcohen             wahanui: forget feature slush
22:28 wahanui            i guess feature slush is the date stuff didn't get passed-qa won't make it into 3.14
22:28 tcohen             feature slush?
22:28 drojf              from the meeting log
22:27 drojf              18:15:49 <gmcharlt> cait: feature slush -- any new features that have hit passed QA by that date will be included in 3.14, assuming they don't raise signfiicant QA concerns on my part 18:16:29 <cait> thx :) 18:16:33 <gmcharlt> new features that have /not/ hit passed QA by feature slush are more liable to be left for the next release; if you want something that misses slush to make it in, you'll need to advocate for it
22:27 wahanui            tcohen: I forgot that
22:27 tcohen             wahanui: forget that
22:25 drojf              i thought what passed qa is in, you have to beg for rest
22:25 drojf              exactly
22:25 drojf              i don't think that is true
22:24 wahanui            feature slush is the date stuff didn't get passed-qa won't make it into 3.14
22:24 tcohen             feature slush?
22:23 wahanui            feature slush is september 25
22:23 tcohen             feature slush?
22:23 wahanui            okay, tcohen.
22:23 tcohen             wahanui: feature slush is also the date stuff didn't get passed-qa won't make it into 3.14
22:22 cait               kf is not here :P
22:22 wahanui            kf should be writing slides
22:22 cait               slides?
22:22 cait               hm?
22:22 wahanui            feature slush is september 25
22:22 tcohen             feature slush?
22:22 wahanui            OK, tcohen.
22:22 tcohen             wahanui: feature slush is september 25
22:21 wahanui            tcohen: I forgot feature slush
22:21 tcohen             wahanui: forget feature slush
22:21 wahanui            ...but feature slush is March 15....
22:21 tcohen             wahanui: feature slush is september 25
22:21 drojf              at least the date was right
22:21 * drojf            crawls away in shame
22:21 drojf              ok. then i do not know how to ask the bot
22:20 wahanui            release schedule is, like, http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Proposal_for_RM_3_14_gmcharlt#Timeline
22:20 cait               release schedule?
22:20 drojf              and wahanui does not know it. i found it in the logs for last meeting
22:20 drojf              i think its september 25
22:18 tcohen             schedule for 3.14?
22:18 tcohen             WTF?
22:18 wahanui            feature slush is March 15.
22:18 tcohen             feature slush?
22:04 wahanui            eythian: huh?
22:04 eythian            wahanui: I would like to, but now it's too far away.
22:04 wahanui            go back to bed, eythian
22:04 tcohen             hey eythian
22:02 eythian            hi
22:01 tcohen             Context_set_userenv.t maybe
21:45 mtompset           set_userenv (I mean)
21:45 mtompset           C4::Context is a module that would generate a whack load of tests. Should I put my setenv testing into t/db_dependent/Context.t? Or should I put it into a separate test file?
21:36 mtompset           In this case for C4::Context's setenv.
21:35 mtompset           I've been writing more tests.
21:35 mtompset           not yet.
21:34 tcohen_            mtompset: did you try my unit tests?
21:23 mtompset           How long is too long for a test file, before these split considerations should start crossing your mind?
21:20 rangi              separate modules
21:20 rangi              what you really need is
21:20 rangi              yeah, if you need separate test files
21:20 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10892 enhancement, P3, ---, mathieu.saby, Needs Signoff , Make facets customisable - step 1 : store facet config in YAML block
21:20 tweetbot_          [off] @KohaILS: "#KohaILS  [Koha-patches] [PATCH] Bug 10892 : Make facets customizable - step 1 store… http://t.co/DdyawV4v20"
21:19 jcamins            Unless your tests get really freaking absurd, in which case a separate file might be preferred (see the Acquisitions module for an example of a module that should be split up).
21:19 rangi              mtompset: no, tests for the package should be in one file
21:17 rangi              back
21:13 mtompset           Is there a recommended naming convention and placement to follow?
21:13 mtompset           Should tests which focus on one function/method be in a separate test file?
21:12 mtompset           Every C4 library has methods/functions within it.
21:12 mtompset           Okay... question about tests.
21:11 mtompset           Woo hoo! Flash crash!
21:06 Brooke             hey cait :D
21:05 cait               wizzyrea++ and sorry for interrupting :)
21:03 Brooke             wizzyrea++
21:01 wizzyrea           hm. I suppose.
21:01 Brooke             if it came from the lips of wizzyrea, sense is always included.
21:00 wizzyrea           did that all make sense?
21:00 tcohen             \o
21:00 Brooke             o/
21:00 tcohen             thanks wizzyrea and cait
21:00 wizzyrea           to do*
21:00 wizzyrea           but if you are only now turning that on it would be fine tod o
21:00 wizzyrea           but I don't really recommend doing that on an already in use system because it will overwrite any borrower defined notice settings.
20:59 wizzyrea           you have to use the script in misc/migration-tools for force-borrower-messaging-preferences
20:59 wizzyrea           yep
20:59 wizzyrea           if you want that to be retrospective
20:59 tcohen             same syspref
20:59 wizzyrea           you have to do that in the category
20:59 wahanui            kf should be writing slides
20:59 cait               slides?
20:59 * cait             is procrastinating and should let wizzyrea answer and work on slides...
20:59 tcohen             if I want it globally?
20:59 wizzyrea           if you want to set defaults across all borrower categories
20:59 wizzyrea           then it will be on the borrower detail
20:59 cait               tcohen: then go to a patron and set it :)
20:59 wizzyrea           you have to turn on enhanced messaging preferences in the system preference
20:59 cait               tcohen: first turn on the system preference
20:58 tcohen             hmm
20:58 tcohen             "patron messaging preferences
20:57 wizzyrea           under Tools
20:57 wizzyrea           overdues are handled through the overdue status triggers
20:57 mtompset           http://www.kohacon10.org.nz/ doesn't work any more. :(
20:57 wizzyrea           so like, 4 for "four days before items are due"
20:57 cait               tcohen: where are you looking? it should only offer a pull down with positives
20:57 tcohen             and the overdue ones?
20:56 wizzyrea           number of days before due date you want the notice to arrive
20:56 wizzyrea           no, positive values
20:56 tcohen             exactly
20:56 cait               tcohen: patron messaging preferences and advanced_notices script?
20:56 tcohen             negative values?
20:56 wizzyrea           oh you mean how do you enable them?
20:56 wizzyrea           ?
20:56 wizzyrea           set them
20:56 cait               wizzyrea: it's annoying isn'tit?
20:56 tcohen             wizzyrea: how do i set pre-due notices?
20:55 wizzyrea           >.< the hazards
20:55 mtompset           no problem.
20:55 wizzyrea           I am rather snowed with actual stuff that we get paid for atm :/
20:55 wizzyrea           aha
20:53 mtompset           And see if you wanted to test the patches. :)
20:53 mtompset           I just wanted to point out that I did things a bit backwards (oops!) and forgot to write tests until after. :)
20:51 mtompset           We all know it is jcamins' fault. ;)
20:51 mtompset           No, of course not!
20:51 wizzyrea           <.<
20:51 wizzyrea           >.>
20:51 wizzyrea           hopefully you weren't saying wizzyrea <swearing>
20:51 wizzyrea           oh right yea
20:49 mtompset           You suggested that instead of just a single code, I could pipe delimit codes.
20:49 wizzyrea           possibly?
20:48 mtompset           Remember that conversation way, way long ago (it seems) about overriding OpacHiddenItems based on Patron Category code?
20:48 wizzyrea           yea?
20:48 mtompset           I thought of you the other night when I put up some tests as a patch.
20:47 wizzyrea           hi
20:47 wahanui            wizzyrea is a fan of selecting hunks for committing.
20:47 mtompset           wizzyrea!
20:47 wizzyrea           yep, responsive is updated every night
20:46 jcamins            With them split, the Koha password can then be changed with a script easily.
20:46 mtompset           Good security idea.
20:46 mtompset           splitting the two credentials is feasible, yes.
20:46 jcamins            The MySQL password can't be automatically changed, because that's simply not an option.
20:45 jcamins            *feasible
20:45 jcamins            No, what I just described is perfectly feasiable.
20:45 mtompset           Now there's a dream that can't be done.
20:43 jcamins            No, in my ideal world you use a script and don't need a root password.
20:43 mtompset           But in your ideal world, if the password is encrypted, you would edit in the encrypted password?
20:42 jcamins            And if you're manually changing the password, you might as well just edit the file yourself, since you must have sudo or root.
20:41 jcamins            "Not feasible" and "can't be done" are more or less the same.
20:41 mtompset           So then it isn't a matter of can't, but rather a matter of difficult, annoying, and not so feasible. :)
20:36 jcamins            Yes, but only if one knows the root password for the MySQL server.
20:35 mtompset           when packages are installed, the password is autogenerated in the koha-conf.xml file. If one knows the root password for the MySQL server, can't one reset them?
20:34 jcamins            No, that can't be done.
20:33 mtompset           Do we have a koha reset password script? Because that would be useful already. :)
20:32 jcamins            And then you could have a koha-password script that generates one-time passwords for the Koha system users.
20:32 jcamins            Right. If they can't, they're going to have problems anyway because their MySQL user isn't going to be able to connect by virtue of not existing.
20:31 mtompset           And one could reasonably assume the manual folks should be able to handle that.
20:30 jcamins            If they then choose to make the two passwords the same, that's their prerogative.
20:30 jcamins            mtompset: if they're using packages it's taken care of, if they're running the Makefile manually, they still have to create a MySQL user.
20:30 mtompset           Some people can't grasp that one password is different than another.
20:30 mtompset           jcamins: That's great from a security perspective, but think librarian who wants to try Koha out, and have never heard of Debian before.
20:29 jcamins            In my ideal world, the Koha credentials would even be bcrypted, the same as passwords in the database.
20:28 jcamins            mtompset: both passwords would be in koha-conf.xml. The difference is the MySQL credentials would not work to log in to Koha, and the Koha credentials would not work to log into MySQL.
20:28 jcamins            I'm not going to work on it because there are nowhere near enough tuits and that's low priority, it's just a thought.
20:27 mtompset           So where would the koha needs to access all the tables in the DB password be set and known? And how would you split that from a koha system user with different system credentials? Would user 0 exist now?
20:26 drojf              that sounds like a reasonable motivation
20:26 * jcamins          was just struck by this thought, and wondered what people thought of it.
20:25 jcamins            drojf: to reduce the number of MySQL servers with the password "katikoan"
20:25 jcamins            Koha logs into MySQL using one set of credentials, but the kohaadmin user has a different password.
20:24 drojf              why?
20:24 jcamins            Have two sets.
20:24 mtompset           Separate how? What do you mean?
20:23 * jcamins          would like to think out loud a bit: would it make sense to separate the MySQL and Koha system user credentials?
20:22 * cait             agrees with rangi on that
20:15 tcohen             hi mtompset
20:15 mtompset           Greetings, tcohen.
20:15 mtompset           Bye, oleonard. :)
20:15 oleonard           Time for me to leave. Bye #koha
20:14 rangi              is worth doing, changing the entire tone of the conference, not so much
20:14 rangi              i think making it more clear hosting a conference is a LOT of work
20:13 rangi              we had a lot of sponsors that have nothing to do with koha
20:13 rangi              it takes organisation, and a willingness to door knock
20:13 rangi              we had no problem covering costs at kohacon10 in nz
20:13 mtompset           AH... okay.
20:12 jcamins            No, Koha is about openness and inclusiveness.
20:12 rangi              as in we are different to douchebag companies like sirsi dynix
20:12 oleonard           Differentiating ourselves from other conferences
20:12 mtompset           removing a point of difference? As in comparing one bid against another?
20:11 rangi              the inaccessibility, the removing a point of difference, the killing of a tradition for no real gain
20:10 mtompset           rangi: What do you hate about the idea of a registration fee? The inaccessibility it creates? Something else?
20:10 jcamins            I'll take a screenshot, but part of the left of the go button is covered by the dropdown.
20:10 rangi              on my screen, its over the left of the go button
20:09 oleonard           I don't understand what you're saying about the search dropdown box
20:09 rangi              s
20:09 rangi              ah yeah, when you switch on more option
20:09 jcamins            Sure.
20:09 jcamins            Oh, sorry. Advanced search.
20:09 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10309 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , New OPAC theme based on Bootstrap
20:09 oleonard           jcamins: Can you add comments to Bug 10309 please?
20:09 rangi              jcamins: what page is that?
20:08 jcamins            oleonard: and the "Additional content types for books/printed materials" is jogged downwards.
20:08 rangi              i hate both ideas
20:08 rangi              both
20:08 mtompset           rangi: Is your parenthetical (or one where speakers are paid) what you meant by paid kohacon, and you didn't mean paid as in registration fee?
20:07 rangi              when i get to work
20:07 rangi              but i will check it is totally up to date
20:07 rangi              i see that too, overlapping a few pixels
20:06 jcamins            The search dropdown box on the main page is on top of the go button.
20:06 oleonard           Thanks wahanui
20:06 rangi              with wizzyrea
20:06 wahanui            hmmm... bad news is that you're probably royally screwed
20:06 jcamins            oleonard: bad news...
20:06 rangi              should be, its cronned to update from oleonard's branch, but ill check
20:05 jcamins            Is that up to date?
20:05 rangi              without even needing to have a koha install
20:05 cait               :)
20:05 rangi              there
20:05 rangi              http://responsive.mykoha.co.nz/
20:05 rangi              people can test
20:04 rangi              handily
20:04 oleonard           any amount of feedback is welcome, since I have received little!
20:03 rangi              yeah, but i could start and note anything
20:01 oleonard           It is no small thing I ask. Lots to test.
20:00 * rangi            will try at lunchtime
20:00 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10309 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , New OPAC theme based on Bootstrap
20:00 oleonard           Bug 10309
19:59 oleonard           Nope
19:59 * cait             will not read back.
19:59 rangi              heya oleonard, has your bug been signed off?
19:59 cait               some people seem to misunderstand that free software free conference concept...
19:59 oleonard           Hi rangi
19:58 rangi              :)
19:57 drojf              or be part of it in any way
19:57 drojf              i don't think i want to read that
19:57 jcamins            That's what I was getting at when I said I thought a paid Kohacon would lose core developers.
19:57 cait               hm not sure I want to
19:56 rangi              just even
19:56 rangi              oh, kist reading scroll back
19:56 cait               huh?
19:55 rangi              just my opinion
19:55 rangi              fwiw id boycott a paid kohacon (or one where speakers are paid)
19:53 wahanui            it has been said that koha-create is part of the package :)
19:53 jcamins            koha-create
19:52 * magnuse          calls it a day and a half
19:52 magnuse            koha-create also creates passwords
19:52 magnuse            depends on which passwords we are talking about
19:44 mtompset           16? AddMember_Opac only does 10.
19:29 jenkins_koha       Nicole C. Engard: update OPACDisplay856uAsImage to be clearer
19:29 jenkins_koha       Project Koha_Docs_3.12.x build #18: SUCCESS in 8.9 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.12.x/18/
19:29 jenkins_koha       Starting build #18 for job Koha_Docs_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
19:26 jcamins            16 characters.
19:25 jcamins            How long are we making random passwords now?
19:21 jcamins            In other contexts? It depends.
19:21 jcamins            Test::Deep.
19:21 jcamins            In a unit test?
19:21 mtompset           What's the best way to compare two data structures in perl?
19:18 magnuse            bye tcohen
19:18 tcohen             bye #koha
19:16 jenkins_koha       * Nicole C. Engard: update OPACDisplay856uAsImage to be clearer
19:16 jenkins_koha       * Nicole C. Engard: reoder librarything prefs
19:16 jenkins_koha       Project Koha_Docs_3.10.x build #61: SUCCESS in 9.9 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.10.x/61/
19:16 jenkins_koha       * Nicole C. Engard: update OPACDisplay856uAsImage to be clearer
19:16 jenkins_koha       * Nicole C. Engard: reoder librarything prefs
19:16 jenkins_koha       Project Koha_Docs build #367: SUCCESS in 9.3 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/367/
19:16 jenkins_koha       Starting build #61 for job Koha_Docs_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
19:16 jenkins_koha       Starting build #367 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: SUCCESS)
19:16 magnuse            hm, do we have to kind of starting thinking about roles for 3.14++ soonish?
19:15 magnuse            oleonard: good idea, probably
19:15 oleonard           I always try to wait at least until after a marching band has performed it to watch the latest thing on YouTube.
19:14 jenkins_koha       Nicole C. Engard: reoder librarything prefs
19:14 jenkins_koha       Project Koha_Docs_3.12.x build #17: SUCCESS in 10 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.12.x/17/
19:14 jenkins_koha       Starting build #17 for job Koha_Docs_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
19:12 magnuse            lol
19:12 drojf              :P
19:12 drojf              well kind of works, i watched it in the end
19:12 magnuse            hehe
19:11 drojf              i love how i watch something for the first time that has 33 million views on youtube. my filter bubble works :P
19:11 jcamins            I said it had become a true cultural meme.
19:11 jcamins            Who said anything about better?
19:11 drojf              the fox clips did not make it better though
19:11 jcamins            Bwahahahahahaha!!!!
19:10 drojf              jcamins magnuse no i meant the "official" fox video. i had seen the link here but not tried it yet
19:10 * mtompset         cheers for oleonard!
19:07 jcamins            drojf: clips from all of Fox channel's TV shows cut together to sync them against "What does the fox say?"?
19:06 magnuse            drojf: not sure i want to know? ;-)
19:06 drojf              what the fox did i just watch?
19:05 magnuse            ooh, jenkins has wall displays?
19:04 magnuse            ah, fox channel? heh!
19:03 jcamins            It is being used to mock low-quality American TV channels.
19:03 jcamins            magnuse: here we go. http://waltzy.tumblr.com/post/61511139957/the-fox-new-fox-promo-x
19:02 magnuse            oh here is "the fox" played by a huge american marching band: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzETQCYW3GY
19:02 jcamins            magnuse: still looking.
19:01 magnuse            be there or i will rickroll you with "what does the fox say"
19:00 cait               yay!
19:00 magnuse            be there or be square!
18:59 magnuse            oh by the way: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/2013-09-23_Global_bug_squashing_day
18:59 cait               magnuse++
18:59 jcamins            Let me find it.
18:59 magnuse            jcamins: how can you tell?
18:59 drojf              magnuse: you mean "get the hell away from me with that thing!!!" ?
18:59 magnuse            moahahaha
18:59 jcamins            magnuse: oh, speaking of which, What does the fox say? has made it to the level of major Internet meme.
18:59 * magnuse          declines the offer in the nicest way he can think of
18:58 * drojf            takes the dried cod and offers a flu
18:58 wahanui            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jofNR_WkoCE
18:58 magnuse            what does the fox say?
18:58 magnuse            what does the fox say to that?
18:58 mtompset           No, no, druthb. "Blame Canada!" (http://youtu.be/bOR38552MJA)
18:58 * magnuse          takes the rye bread and offers dried cod (stockfish)
18:57 * jcamins          takes the cookies, and offers rye bread.
18:57 magnuse            yay!
18:57 * druthb           takes the blame, and offers cookies.
18:57 * magnuse          blames druthb
18:57 * druthb           blames jcamins.
18:56 mtompset           Oh. Well, I didn't know someone tried. :(
18:56 mtompset           Greetings, druthb.
18:56 jcamins            mtompset: no one can seem to change it.
18:56 mtompset           I think the QA Sprint Day topic should be changed by now. Though, I suppose QA folks never stop running. *cheers for QA folks*
18:56 druthb             hi, mtompset
18:55 mtompset           Greetings, #koha.
18:51 magnuse            how?
18:50 cait               :(
18:50 cait               yep
18:47 magnuse            cait: you broke the packages?
18:44 * magnuse          wishes there was a way to put the alpha subfields before the numerical ones
18:44 drojf              jcamins: i would if i had more time :)
18:43 jcamins            drojf: you're interested in privacy and security. You should know these things.
18:43 jcamins            drojf: I meant new salt, not new hash.
18:43 drojf              jcamins: you must confuse me with somebody who knows a lot about crypto :)
18:42 * cait             apologizes for breaking the packages
18:41 magnuse            :-)
18:41 druthb             thanks, drojf n magnuse.  Raychel and I are kinda amped about it.
18:41 jcamins            drojf: I have a question for you. When using bcrypt for hashing passwords, do you want to use the same hash on every run or is it reasonable to generate a new hash each session?
18:40 magnuse            yeah, huge congrats to druthb!
18:40 drojf              druthb: congratulations :)
18:40 druthb             :D
18:40 wahanui            Well, she finally snapped, like we all knew she would.
18:39 magnuse            druthb!
18:39 drojf              druthb: i do non-koha things for a few days and you got nothing better to do than getting engaged? :P
18:39 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10897 major, P2, ---, gmcharlt, Pushed to Master , t/ILSDI_Services.t is db dependent
18:39 jenkins_koha       Galen Charlton: Bug 10897: remove test for module that has become DB-dependent
18:39 jenkins_koha       Project Koha_master build #1424: FIXED in 1 hr 32 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1424/
18:39 jenkins_koha       Yippie, build fixed!
18:38 druthb             https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/553581_10151889215892889_1328948159_n.jpg
18:38 druthb             LOL
18:38 cait               :P
18:38 cait               engagement... i will have to lok that up
18:38 oleonard           huh what?
18:37 drojf              huh what?
18:37 cait               hehe
18:37 * druthb           flashes her shiny engagement ring again.
18:37 cait               druthb! drojf! magnuse!
18:37 drojf              druthb!
18:37 druthb             drojf!  cait!  magnuse!
18:36 drojf              hei magnuse. moin works all day for me :)
18:35 * magnuse          tries to catch two flies with one greeting (norwegianism suspected)
18:34 tcohen             cait: 10691
18:34 cait               moin? :)
18:34 magnuse            moin drojf and cait
18:21 * jcamins          noticed. :P
18:21 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10905 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Author tracings incorrect when UseAuthoritiesForTracings is turned on
18:21 tcohen             heh: bug 10905
18:21 tcohen             i *might* have taken you literally
18:11 jcamins            "Author tracings incorrect when UseAuthoritiesForTracings is turned on"
18:11 tcohen             not sure, how would you describe the problem in a bug jcamins?
18:11 jcamins            I wonder how the quotation marks got there.
18:10 jcamins            Odd.
18:10 tcohen             context of the question would be UseAuthoritesForTracings
18:10 huginn`            04Bug 9563: normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Author links don't generate correct search query url for UseAuthoritesForTracings
18:10 tcohen             http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9563
18:09 magnuse            nah, i'm afraid i'm just muddying the waters
18:09 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8917 new feature, P5 - low, ---, chris, Pushed to Master , Track clicks to links external to Koha
18:09 magnuse            ...as in bug 8917
18:09 tcohen             similar bugs talk about "tracing links"
18:09 tcohen             its trivial, just need to know how to descrie the problem
18:08 tcohen             http://bmayor.biblio.unc.edu.ar/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=3608
18:08 tcohen             i've just found a bug with XSLT links to authorities
18:08 jcamins            tcohen: do you have more context? Now I'm unsure.
18:08 jcamins            magnuse: ooh, it could be a typo for "tracking."
18:07 * magnuse          is unsure of the meaning of tracing in that context too
18:06 magnuse            tcohen++
18:06 * tcohen           is learning english, sorry #koha
18:06 tcohen             ok, the action of tracing is following those links
18:06 magnuse            unless it is a typo for "tracking links"?
18:05 jcamins            The links to see other books with the same subjects.
18:05 tcohen             tracing == browsing?
18:05 jcamins            I think.
18:04 jcamins            subject tracings.
18:04 tcohen             what does "tracing links" stand for? (like in "the tracing links produced in the OPAC fail in XSLT mode")
18:03 magnuse            jcamins: lol
18:03 tcohen             kf
18:03 kf                 bye all
18:02 jcamins            ^^ there we go
18:02 jcamins            I was inspired to make rye bread, and opened that book.
18:02 jcamins            Well...
18:02 jcamins            I made rye bread inspired by that book.
18:02 jcamins            Well...
18:02 jcamins            I just made rye bread out of that book.
17:58 magnuse            hehe
17:58 jcamins            I haven't actually read through the entire thing. I just looked up a recipe, threw a bunch of ingredients into a pail, and called it a success. :)
17:57 magnuse            maybe i should prioritize baking now that things are calming down a bit
17:57 magnuse            the last 3-4 weeks have been intensely busy
17:57 magnuse            well, other books got in the way
17:57 jcamins            It's so easy!
17:56 jcamins            Aww.
17:56 magnuse            and i kind of took a break from reading the "artisan bread in 5 minutes" book
17:56 magnuse            nope, it's been a loong time since last time i did
17:55 jcamins            magnuse: are you baking bread?
17:55 magnuse            not bad, not bad at all
17:55 huginn`            magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 16.0°C (7:20 PM CEST on September 17, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 29.53 in 1000 hPa (Steady).
17:55 magnuse            @wunder boo
17:44 jcamins            At least, chilly compared to what it has been.
17:44 huginn`            oleonard: The current temperature in OHDOT 31-Athens County Garage, Athens, Ohio is 21.7°C (1:01 PM EDT on September 17, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 52%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 30.31 in 1026 hPa (Rising).
17:44 oleonard           @wunder 45701
17:44 huginn`            jcamins: The current temperature in Glendale, Glendale, New York is 17.5°C (1:42 PM EDT on September 17, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 40%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Pressure: 30.41 in 1030 hPa (Falling).
17:44 jcamins            @wunder 11375
17:43 jcamins            In fact, it's downright chilly this week. Glorious.
17:43 jcamins            oleonard: yup.
17:43 oleonard           Just now cool enough jcamins?
17:42 jcamins            Mmm. First fresh bread in months.
17:39 wahanui            The 952 field is used by Koha to store item data in MARC21 and is described at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Holdings_data_fields_%289xx%29
17:39 huginn`            slef: unknown tag 952
17:39 slef               @marc 952
17:28 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10897 major, P2, ---, gmcharlt, Pushed to Master , t/ILSDI_Services.t is db dependent
17:28 jenkins_koha       Galen Charlton: Bug 10897: remove test for module that has become DB-dependent
17:28 jenkins_koha       Project master_maria build #106: FIXED in 43 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/master_maria/106/
17:28 jenkins_koha       Yippie, build fixed!
17:06 jenkins_koha       Starting build #1424 for job Koha_master (previous build: FAILURE -- last SUCCESS #1422 20 hr ago)
17:05 jenkins_koha       * Galen Charlton: Bug 7639: DBRev 3.13.00.020
17:05 jenkins_koha       * Kyle M Hall: Bug 7639: (follow-up) add Unit Tests
17:05 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7639 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , system preference to forgive fines on lost items
17:05 jenkins_koha       * Kyle M Hall: Bug 7639: QA Followup - Fix update description
17:05 jenkins_koha       * Paul Poulain: Bug 7639: tiny QA follow-up
17:05 jenkins_koha       * Kyle M Hall: Bug 7639 - system preference to forgive fines on lost items - QA Followup
17:05 jenkins_koha       * Meenakshi.R: Bug 7639: add option to forgive overdue fines when declaring items lost
17:05 jenkins_koha       Project Koha_master build #1423: FAILURE in 1 hr 32 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1423/
16:46 tcohen             what i ws thinking is if we should allow cancelling the upload
16:45 tcohen             i know
16:45 oleonard           tcohen: There is a built in option for that
16:45 huginn`            New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10897: remove test for module that has become DB-dependent <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=dcbe50cde84505198dffbd1a65d998287f0902dc>
16:44 jenkins_koha       Starting build #106 for job master_maria (previous build: FAILURE -- last SUCCESS #104 20 hr ago)
16:41 tcohen             was thinking if disabling 'Esc' was the best solution
16:41 tcohen             no
16:40 oleonard           tcohen: Is it even possible to abort the upload?
16:40 oleonard           tcohen: Ideally it should be impossible to close the modal while the upload is in progress
16:40 tcohen             oleonard: what do the 'Esc' key do for the upload modal? abort upload? nothing?
16:39 slef               (crying and laughing0
16:38 slef               oleonard: :,D
16:38 oleonard           slef: If we didn't have border controls when would the government have opportunities to search our laptops?
16:38 slef               as there's mutual movement around most of Europe
16:38 gmcharlt           as opposed to capital, which has nary a bother at most borfders
16:38 slef               or areas, rather than countries
16:37 slef               oleonard: split up into countries and told we can't move around freely
16:37 oleonard           slef: divide-and-conquered?
16:32 jenkins_koha       * Galen Charlton: Bug 7639: DBRev 3.13.00.020
16:32 jenkins_koha       * Kyle M Hall: Bug 7639: (follow-up) add Unit Tests
16:32 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7639 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , system preference to forgive fines on lost items
16:32 jenkins_koha       * Kyle M Hall: Bug 7639: QA Followup - Fix update description
16:32 jenkins_koha       * Paul Poulain: Bug 7639: tiny QA follow-up
16:32 jenkins_koha       * Kyle M Hall: Bug 7639 - system preference to forgive fines on lost items - QA Followup
16:32 jenkins_koha       * Meenakshi.R: Bug 7639: add option to forgive overdue fines when declaring items lost
16:32 jenkins_koha       Project master_maria build #105: FAILURE in 47 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/master_maria/105/
16:31 slef               I've done that, except no kids.
16:31 slef               hehehehe
16:31 jcamins            Well- probably he could. But visiting your wife's hometown and leaving her with the kids seems cruel.
16:30 jcamins            And he can't leave.
16:30 slef               http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/User:M._Tompsett
16:29 rambutan           ah, ok
16:29 jcamins            Canada.
16:29 slef               I hate how we're divide-and-conquered.
16:29 rambutan           OK, I'm confused. Where is mtompset physically present at the moment?
16:29 slef               ow
16:28 jcamins            slef: she can't leave the country until it's been established.
16:26 slef               I wonder what Canadian Citizenship has to do with it
16:26 slef               ttfn...
16:25 mtompset           slef++ # thank you. :)
16:25 mtompset           Have a great day, #koha.
16:25 mtompset           And depending on how quickly my wife gets her Canadian Citizenship, maybe I could be there. :)
16:24 mtompset           Philippines 2015, perhaps? :)
16:23 mtompset           But thank you for some more insights and thoughts on this. I am really hoping my colleague is able to assemble something.
16:23 mtompset           Well, it's lunch, and I promised to take my family out for lunch, so I better go.
16:23 rambutan           ah, oh, ok
16:22 * mtompset         chuckles.
16:22 slef               rambutan: I would think that Linus is another big mouth ;)
16:22 rambutan           I would think that Linus gets paid for speaking? :)
16:22 slef               well it depends... we paid the singer
16:21 jcamins            slef: granted, I dislike speaking, but I'd be less likely to speak if I were getting paid an insulting amount- the fee provides no benefit to me, but is taking away from potentially doing something useful.
16:21 mtompset           you're probably right. The idea that Koha is FOSS is a little contradictory to expecting payment for speaking. :)
16:21 slef               rambutan: true, we did that ;)
16:20 rambutan           what is customary where I've done presentations is to waive conference attendance fees for speakers/presenters
16:20 slef               not sure that's true in my case ;) but I had something to say
16:20 jcamins            Core developers, rather.
16:19 mtompset           -- with the knowledge that speaking is good PR. :)
16:19 jcamins            I feel like if you paid speakers you'd lose all the core speakers.
16:19 slef               mtompset: for free.
16:19 jcamins            Free.
16:19 slef               mtompset: easier, yes, but then you start to exclude people, like the smaller charity and soc.ent. libraries that have been the backbone of koha in England.
16:18 rambutan           I doubt that any modest attendance fees could cover a reasonably number of speaker fees if they're charging customary rates
16:17 mtompset           Did the speakers speak for free or for some kind of honorarium?
16:17 mtompset           slef: Wouldn't it be easier to just have a paid ticket option period?
16:16 rambutan           yep, understand that too
16:16 slef               rambutan: it's worse than that. Some libraries are charitable and cannot donate to non-charity projects.
16:15 rambutan           but we understand (again, tnx to Sirsi) conference attendance fees
16:15 slef               mtompset: I'd suggest calling the paid tickets "regular" or similar, maybe with "premium" and calling the free tickets "lite".  I don't think I would specify what the difference is (if any).
16:15 rambutan           No sense of altruism when dealing with tax dollars
16:15 rambutan           The problem with donations is that some libraries, like ours probably, would simply adopt the attitude that "why pay for something that's free?"
16:14 slef               Librarians can buy paid conference tickets, but can't sponsor things.
16:14 mtompset           how would a paid ticket option work vs. a free ticket option?
16:14 rambutan           say $100 USD or something to cover the costs of snacks, et al
16:14 mtompset           So, involving the community would include asking for assistance on the mailing lists?
16:14 slef               Yeah, that was one strong feedback... there should be a paid ticket option, as well as the free tickets.
16:13 rambutan           <unsolicited opinion>We used to pay big dollars for the Sirsi Superconference. I think the community should consider a nominal charge for Kohacon attendance
16:13 slef               Try to avoid paypal if you can.  If you must use them, get the money out as fast as you can and don't let them have debit access to your bank account.
16:12 slef               I'm trying to remember who did what... I was a bit overloaded
16:11 slef               6 with 2 super-substitutes.
16:11 slef               I think if you're running it as a single-track conference, you really want a core team of at least 6, ideally with 2 staying near the venue >1 week ahead.
16:10 slef               jcamins++
16:10 mtompset           I know my Filipino colleague is dreaming of potentially hosting.
16:10 jcamins            Involve the community.
16:10 mtompset           So, any other related advice on creating a proposal and hosting?
16:09 slef               by email as our meeting times didn't work for them
16:09 slef               mtompset: I think rangi Brooke and rafael did a few each
16:08 slef               mtompset: aha, review board was kf thd-away jcamins and me
16:07 slef               [off] actually that's more info than I should give. Sorry.
16:06 slef               oleonard: bosses refused to fund, late.
16:06 * oleonard         hopes they had a good reason
16:06 slef               mtompset: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon12_Volunteers may be more useful
16:06 slef               oleonard: yes
16:05 oleonard           slef: You had someone fail to show up to give the talk they signed up to do?
16:05 slef               and encouraged 2 sets of 2 where the speakers were from the same institutions to merge (which didn't matter in at least one case where they didn't show up)
16:04 slef               I think we turned down maybe 2 or 3 talks
16:04 slef               we had a review board
16:04 slef               kf wrote that
16:04 wahanui            i think http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/call-papers/ is posted, please get submitting if it works for you!
16:04 slef               http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/call-papers/
16:04 mtompset           The hosts approve the speakers (which is generally everyone)?
16:03 jcamins            I think this translates to almost everyone who wants to speaking.
16:03 jcamins            Whoever volunteers and has their talk approved gets to speak.
16:03 slef               What about them?
16:02 mtompset           Okay, that's sponsorship, but what about speakers?
15:58 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10856 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Improve the previous and next items on the shelf browser
15:58 tweetbot_          [off] @KohaILS: "#KohaILS  [Koha-patches] [PATCH] Bug 10856 [Follow-up] Improve the previous and next items on… http://t.co/dDIpGqwat6"
15:58 wahanui            slef: I forgot http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/sponsors/
15:58 slef               wahanui: forget http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/sponsors/
15:57 * drojf            heads home
15:57 slef               jcamins: I'm jealous ;)
15:56 jcamins            Oh, that reminds me. I got an e-mail from Nancy.
15:56 slef               http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/sponsoring-kohacon12/
15:56 slef               no
15:56 wahanui            http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/sponsors/ is the website presentation
15:56 slef               http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/sponsors/
15:55 slef               I suspect it's still there... 1mo
15:55 slef               we raised the funds by emailing lots of people and inviting donations on the conference pages
15:55 slef               our costs were split between sponsors and the co-op
15:54 mtompset           Seeing as you were involved in hosting one, I thought you'd be able to give some good ideas. :)
15:54 jcamins            The people staying in the rooms pay for them, and the rest is donated.
15:54 mtompset           Most of the proposals tend to have no registration fee, so who pays for rooms, who pays for halls, who pays everything, and how are those funds raised?
15:53 mtompset           Okay...
15:53 mtompset           YAY!
15:51 slef               mtompset: what did you want to know about kohacon funding?
15:49 wahanui            i guess release schedule is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Proposal_for_RM_3_14_gmcharlt#Timeline
15:49 jcamins            release schedule?
15:49 jcamins            schedule for 3.14?
15:49 jcamins            roadmap for 3.14?
15:47 drojf              slef: obviously :(
15:46 slef               drojf: the infobot hates you
15:44 drojf              hm
15:44 drojf              roadmap 3.14?
15:44 drojf              roadmap?
15:44 jenkins_koha       Starting build #105 for job master_maria (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:35 huginn`            New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 7639: DBRev 3.13.00.020 <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=88d1e1472857a3996e8704c738e89acd2294369d> / Bug 7639: (follow-up) add Unit Tests <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=2f9cf0d29540f64905cb8dce9dfae88ef0962ef7> / Bug 7639: QA Followup - Fix update description <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=30c5d8ddc041a56014965f32134a0e4
15:33 jenkins_koha       Starting build #1423 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:30 drojf              koha++
15:30 drojf              and that was a smooth upgrade from 3.8.x to 3.12.4
15:19 tweetbot_          [off] @fernando__lopez: "en 8 horas comienza webinar sobre #Koha @KohaILS en #SocialBiblio http://t.co/g26wAankYb"
15:10 mtompset           The first part of the || catches the C4::Context-> call, the second part catches the $context-> call.
15:08 wahanui            i think perfect is the enemy of good
15:08 jcamins            Perfect.
15:07 mtompset           my $self = shift @_ if ($_[0] && ($_[0] eq 'C4::Context' || ref($_[0]) eq 'C4::Context'));
15:07 reiveune           bye
15:07 mtompset           Oops. ref()
15:07 kivilahtio         mtompset: Remeber to DOCUMENT properly!
15:06 mtompset           my $self = shift @_ if ($_[0] && ($_[0] eq 'C4::Context' || $_[0] eq 'C4::Context'));
15:06 mtompset           And here is the one liner that I believe I will use:
15:06 kivilahtio         sleep tight
15:05 kivilahtio         well I am not going to get started about the challenges at the start of this project :D
15:05 gaetan_B           bye !
15:04 kivilahtio         municipal IT-support company which administers this server"
15:04 mtompset           Ah... I wasn't paying attention, I was writing tests BEFORE coding... In this case, it was really necessary.
15:04 kivilahtio         0 help from our current ILS provider and 0 help from our municipal department
15:04 druthb             ew.  Messy.
15:04 kivilahtio         each colum nlabeledwith 8 characters. Nad I have been trying to figure out our data from there for a loooong long time.
15:03 druthb             mtompset:  My last job was as a migration specialist for ByWater.
15:03 kivilahtio         we have a Ingres DB, which has like 300+ tables, each labeled with 8 characters
15:03 kivilahtio         here
15:03 mtompset           data migration work? where?
15:02 * druthb           perks at "data migration work" and notes that a million-plus bib library can be converted using plain ol' perl, with some CPAN helpers.  Been there, done that.
15:02 kivilahtio         thanks for being here #Koha!
15:02 mtompset           Take care. :)
15:02 kivilahtio         anyway time for me to go home
15:02 mtompset           I believe I have the monstrosity figured out for my check.
15:02 mtompset           jcamins: Actually 6 test cases... with and without parameters passed.
15:01 kivilahtio         ..."without a proper debugger".
15:01 kivilahtio         kf: So true, but I had to buy it for the data migration work. Impossible to trace issues in huge datasets without a proper compiler. Eclipse started freezing and crashing under large datasets, like arrays and hashes
14:59 kf                 kivilahtio: that's a lot
14:55 kivilahtio         Also Eclipse EPIC seems to have some support for CGI debugging
14:55 kivilahtio         http://www.epic-ide.org/guide/ch06s02.php
14:54 kivilahtio         300€ a year :D
14:54 kivilahtio         Komodo IDE is only 300€ but it is the best Perl Ide out there. Definetely has been a lot of help when doing my  data migration scripts
14:53 kivilahtio         http://docs.activestate.com/komodo/7.0/debugperl.html
14:52 mtompset           Perl POD stuff in the code.
14:52 mtompset           Hmmm... mostly?
14:51 wahanui            it has been said that C4::Context is not very efficient, but the bigger issue is the overall load time.
14:51 kivilahtio         mtompset: C4::Context
14:51 kf                 gmcharlt++
14:51 wahanui            mtompset: I forgot it
14:51 mtompset           wahanui: forget it
14:50 wahanui            hmmm... it is changing a default behaviour
14:50 mtompset           it? what?
14:50 kivilahtio         mtompset: I guess it is properly documented somewhere?
14:50 mtompset           GAH! That is a horribly huge object.
14:50 jcamins            I am sure there is. I just don't use it.
14:49 kivilahtio         I just have a gut feeling that there has to be a apache2 script debugger. Atleast Komodo IDE should have one
14:49 kivilahtio         not that I have anything against plack
14:49 kivilahtio         yeah, atlest with Koha you don't have to restart Evergreen services to make your code changes happen
14:48 kivilahtio         And quite frnakly not sure how we ll debugging CGI-scripts work, after plack
14:48 jcamins            kivilahtio: just warn and nerves of steel.
14:48 kivilahtio         I haven't looked at integrating a debugger to Koha yet
14:47 kivilahtio         speaking of code. Are you using some proper debuggers for your work? Like Eclipse?
14:41 mtompset           C4::Context::set_userenv vs. C4::Context->set_userenv vs. $obj=C4::Context->new; $obj->set_userenv
14:41 Joubu              s/did/didn't
14:41 Joubu              (Except the bad c/p) Here I did want a call like $obj->all. only Class::all is allowed
14:41 Joubu              +        if ref $class and UNIVERSAL::can($class,'can');
14:41 Joubu              +    die "BAD CALL: Don't use fetch_all_values as a static method"
14:41 Joubu              +    my ( $class, $args ) = @_;
14:41 Joubu              +sub all {
14:39 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10855 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Additional fields for subscriptions
14:39 Joubu              mtompset: first patch from bug 10855
14:39 Joubu              mtompset: not sure to understand what you want (did not follow the discussion). But if it is about static vs class method, I got the same problem short time ago
14:35 mtompset           try to treat C4::Context as an object.
14:35 mtompset           well, three ways...
14:34 jcamins            Actually, better way to figure this out: add a new method to C4::Context and use Data::Dumper to inspect the results when you call it the two different ways.
14:33 jcamins            Which means that you actually want to check for... ?
14:33 jcamins            C4::Context isn't actually object-oriented. It's called as C4::Context-> rather than $context->.
14:32 mtompset           my $self = shift if (<check>);
14:32 jcamins            Except that's not what you want to do, is it?
14:31 mtompset           check for an object. :P
14:31 mtompset           Yes, which is why I changed my question to how to change for an object. :P
14:31 kf                 tcohen: hm tanslate.koha-community.org is quite slow - all translators busy?
14:29 jcamins            The sentence you just said includes the answer to your question.
14:28 jcamins            Yes! That is *exactly* what you need to do.
14:27 mtompset           You need to check if the first parameter is an object.
14:27 jcamins            s/"\?/?"/
14:27 mtompset           right, which is why "shift" is not the best answer.
14:26 jcamins            I have no objection to keeping it working when called incorrectly, but you still need to think about your approach, and answer the question "is there a way to do this that will not result in obtuse code"?
14:26 mtompset           You don't break what is working.
14:25 mtompset           So, checking if you should shift, keep code that was working still working, even though it should be fixed.
14:24 mtompset           functions takes ::, have two calls :: and ->. One is broken. function takes ->, other one is now broken.
14:24 jcamins            Half the calls are currently wrong. Half are write.
14:23 mtompset           No, it would have worked (because it was wrong before), but now is broken (because it is right now)
14:23 jcamins            Then it's still broken.
14:22 mtompset           What if you miss fixing a reference?
14:22 jcamins            I think maybe you need to take a step back and figure out what you're trying to do.
14:22 jcamins            Why?
14:22 mtompset           That's just plain wrong.
14:22 mtompset           Let's put it this way... I saw some code that just added a shift.
14:21 jcamins            I think you need to rethink what you're trying to do.
14:21 mtompset           :: vs -> check.
14:20 jcamins            What are you trying to do?
14:20 mtompset           something the wrong way... :P -- best way to check for an object?
14:20 jcamins            mtompset: what are you trying to do?
14:19 mtompset           You can't push back to @_ what you have shift'd off, right?
14:16 kivilahtio         mtompset: :)
14:16 jcamins            kivilahtio: I meant "game." :P
14:16 kivilahtio         jcamins: hardware support for more "exotic" sound cards for ex
14:16 mtompset           Let's not call windows-use a lifestyle. :P
14:15 kivilahtio         I don't like the thing one bit but I don't see an alternative for my current lifestyle
14:15 * jcamins          isn't quite sure of what this thing of which you speak is.
14:15 kivilahtio         Quite frankly I find Win7 to be an excellent entertainment platform. I have it back home after getting bored to the lack of availability of Linux games.
14:14 mtompset           Some people don't have time to figure out how to configure Wine either.
14:13 druthb             I would throw Windows overboard, but there are a couple of games I have that just *won't* run in Wine.
14:12 jcamins            druthb: yeah... fastest way to get an Ubuntu or Mint CD!
14:09 druthb             win7 is *way* better than Vista.  Turn off the desktop gadgetry, and install Chrome, and you almost have a decent machine.
14:01 mtompset           There is a time and place for everything: even Windows 7. :P
13:56 kivilahtio         drojf: ++
13:56 jcamins            Every time I have to boot one, a part of me dies.
13:56 mtompset           I sometimes run many VMs. That was the point of the memory.
13:56 jcamins            And Windows Server 2012.
13:55 jcamins            I have VMs of Windows XP, Windows 7, and Windows 8.
13:55 drojf              friends don't let friends surf the web with win7 :P
13:55 kivilahtio         mtompset: you are using win7...  I heard Win7 is good for... well... surfing the net ;)  But 32GB RAM is pretty nice :D how do you spend it all?
13:50 * mtompset         cries about the pains our QA and production server have because the virtualization technology is so archaic.
13:47 mtompset           Though, if you want to hear about virtualization problems... vserver. Enough said.
13:45 mtompset           Well, if we are playing the "let's compare testing environments" game. I virtualize Koha under Ubuntu with 2GB RAM, 32GB Drive space using VirtualBox on a 32GB RAM Windows 7 Ultimate Box running an i7-3770. :P
13:44 drojf              yay! magic :)
13:44 jcamins            drojf: if you check out the tag, it has the files.
13:42 drojf              when i get 3.12.04 from git and build a package, does it come with the right translation files or do i have to download and update them manually?
13:38 kivilahtio         but I'll file it
13:37 kivilahtio         I mean this is really insignificant issue for us. I just tested this news thing with some old war-time speeches.
13:37 oleonard           I can confirm in master
13:36 jcamins            kivilahtio: yeah, 02/00/0 is the "uh-oh there is no valid date."
13:35 kivilahtio         O-ou, looks like trouble
13:35 kivilahtio         mysql database value is "opac_news.timestamp = 0000-00-00 00:00:00"
13:35 jcamins            kivilahtio: yes.
13:35 jcamins            That works.
13:35 mtompset           "Incorrect calling conventions accessing C4::Context"?
13:32 kivilahtio         btw setting the "creation_date" in "news -> edit/create" displays 02/00/0 when I set the date to 08/11/1940, should I file a bug?
13:32 mtompset           Something more vulgar was coming to my mind. :)
13:31 jcamins            "Incorrect calling convention"
13:31 mtompset           jcamins: That -> vs :: thing I mentioned last night, what would you call it? I'm going to file a bug report.
13:30 tcohen             i mean, it works
13:30 tcohen             i test the 3.12.x branch using VirtualBox on a Core2Duo with 4GB RAM
13:29 kivilahtio         tcohen: But luckily our obstacles are smaller
13:29 kivilahtio         tcohen: I can imagine that. I am no sysadmin either
13:28 tcohen             there are really a lot of little tricks to keep in mind so everything works flawlessly
13:27 tcohen             and are moving to OpenStack+KVM flawlessly
13:27 tcohen             we use Xen on a 200+ virtual servers infrastructure
13:26 kivilahtio         sounds incredible to me, and I guess they were doing something wrong. Hence our own hardware
13:26 kivilahtio         virtual guests failing to stop. No way to reboot other than reinstall
13:25 kivilahtio         no such issues on our own virtualized hardware
13:25 kivilahtio         jcamins: those issues were most likely network-related
13:25 jcamins            That surprises me. I thought that ESI used Xen.
13:24 kivilahtio         like ballistic bombastic fantastic. Tho we used the service provided by our IT-support company, so no idea really what they did and on what hardware
13:24 kivilahtio         tcohen: we had INSANE issues with Xen + Evergreen
13:24 tcohen             either KVM or Xen are mature
13:24 kivilahtio         tho there is not much non-native with KVM either, when you configure proper drivers
13:23 kivilahtio         native access to eth0 make the difference
13:23 kivilahtio         jcamins: sounds like a good idea.
13:20 jcamins            What I ended up doing with LXC was proxying with nginx.
13:20 kivilahtio         I was looking into LXC but then decided to take the easy, and presumably more reliable way out, KVM
13:20 * druthb           waves her arm around, flashing her engagement ring
13:19 jcamins            Sorry. ;)
13:19 jcamins            kivilahtio: the two aren't mutually exclusive. I'm not really a sysadmin.
13:19 kivilahtio         jcamins: I am happy to hear it is no because of my incompetence :)
13:19 jcamins            VirtualBox, KVM, LXC.
13:19 jcamins            Though, having said that, I have had problems with port forwarding with every single virtualization technology I have tried.
13:19 mtompset           You forgot to flash the ring, druthb. :P
13:18 * druthb           bounces into the room, and flops into her beanbag chair.
13:18 kivilahtio         jcamins: yup, it's pretty fast
13:17 jcamins            mtompset: KVM doesn't emulate the CPU.
13:16 mtompset           I can virtualize Masters of Orion II in VirtualBox or DosBox. There is definitely a speed issue based on how I virutalize. :)
13:15 kivilahtio         wow! iotop is kewl, how come I never knew this existed
13:15 mtompset           (and others)
13:15 mtompset           I/O bottlenecks are not limited to disk, but networking, your VM environment.
13:15 tcohen             try iotop on a lock scenario
13:14 kivilahtio         it propably is networking related
13:14 kivilahtio         :)
13:14 mtompset           Oops... with tcohen and jcamins.
13:14 * mtompset         nods in agreement.
13:14 kivilahtio         tcohen: on SSD?
13:14 tcohen             probably an I/O bottleneck kivilahtio
13:13 kivilahtio         jcamins: roger that
13:13 jcamins            The fact that everything stops responding after a glitch and there is nothing in the Apache logs tells me that you need to look outside Koha for the problem.
13:13 kivilahtio         mtompset: but the virtio network drivers are unoptimized. I think that might be the issue. I'll try to migrate on our real production cluster.
13:13 mtompset           But behind the scenes, if I watched the processes, I could see it was still working.
13:12 mtompset           It would generally work, but take forever, and sometimes have timeouts.
13:12 mtompset           I've virtualized Koha in a 512MB environment, and it is truly painful.
13:12 kivilahtio         running on SSD :D
13:12 kivilahtio         2x 3.8 GHz core
13:12 mtompset           Okay, that isn't the issue. :)
13:11 kivilahtio         4GB
13:11 kivilahtio         mtompset: we have had some issues with Evergreen in virtual containers, but the problem has vanished. Possibly related to our virtual framework... hmm
13:11 mtompset           How much memory did you give your VM?
13:11 kivilahtio         but we will be running things in virtual containers
13:10 kivilahtio         I know
13:10 mtompset           Yes, but you can actually install directly to Mint.
13:10 kivilahtio         mtompset: secure testing environment, easier performance monitoring
13:09 kivilahtio         mtompset: For the encapsulation benefits virtualization provides
13:09 mtompset           kivilahtio: Why are you virtualizing Ubuntu on Mint?
13:09 kivilahtio         Koha ports forwarded and accessing from a remote network
13:09 kivilahtio         running Ubuntu 12.04 JeOS virtual server on linuxmint libvirt KVM virtual host
13:09 jcamins            That sounds like a network issue.
13:08 jcamins            kivilahtio: unlike Evergreen, Koha doesn't actually have any server state if you're using a "normal" installation.
13:08 kivilahtio         no apache errors in log
13:08 mtompset           Sounds proxy-ish in nature to me, but I don't know.
13:07 kivilahtio         WHat happens that makes Koha resume operations after a error scenario?
13:07 kivilahtio         uncertain if OPAC is hindered o that changes are committed to DB
13:07 kivilahtio         is this maybe apache2 related?
13:06 mtompset           kivilahtio: So, what is your question? Again, I don't promise anything.
13:06 kivilahtio         In some occasions I am working with some part of Koha, first time it was with "serials", now it was with "news". I make an action, like save a subscription    or    save a edited news article.   I expect Koha to save my changes, but actually Koha stops responding, and then the browser says "This webpage is not available" for ANY Koha page. After few minutes the problem disappears and Koha continues to perate normally.
13:06 drojf              much worse if i would have started installing it
13:05 drojf              jcamins: true, could have been worse :D
13:05 * mtompset         laughs, "I've made the same kind of mistake before, drojf."
13:05 jcamins            drojf: that's okay, it took zero seconds to download.
13:05 drojf              ah, that was the wrong .deb. damn you, 'koha' not 'koha-common'!
13:05 mtompset           kivilahtio: You can ask anything, but there's no guarantee anyone in the channel at any given time knows the answer. :)
13:04 tcohen             it was buffered
13:04 kivilahtio         can I ask a question about Koha error recovery?
13:04 drojf              i think that is a lie
13:04 drojf              25042 bytes sent in 0.00 secs (15198.9 kB/s)
13:03 mtompset           Greetings, tcohen. :)
13:03 tcohen             hi mtompset
13:02 mtompset           Greetings, #koha.
13:02 jcamins            No one really maintains them so far as I am aware.
13:00 drojf              i thought so, that is why i asked :P
13:00 tcohen             and they are certaintly outdated
12:59 tcohen             not me :-D
12:59 drojf              who is maintainer of the "debian" instructions?
12:57 tcohen             drojf: yes
12:57 drojf              are they?
12:57 tcohen             and as long as those are maintained...
12:57 drojf              lol
12:57 tcohen             i belive we need to think of the target people for those instructions
12:56 * oleonard         flies off again
12:56 oleonard           And everyone should like the things I like.
12:56 * oleonard         flies back
12:56 * oleonard         flies off
12:56 oleonard           Opinionator away!
12:53 oleonard           Koha already has a problem of too many installation guides. If the package installation guides are different only in their verbosity I would think they should not be labeled as specific to different distros
12:47 kivilahtio         hi tcohen!
12:47 drojf              hi tcohen
12:47 tcohen             morning #koha
12:47 tcohen             they *should* be quite similar
12:47 drojf              oleonard: the debian version has the option to install mysql on the same server as opposed to using an external database, which makes sense i think
12:46 tcohen             drojf: the ubuntu instructions are qa-ed on 12.04
12:43 kivilahtio         drojf: nevermind that :)
12:42 drojf              ?
12:42 drojf              maybe it would make sense to label them both package instructions then without any hint to a distribution
12:40 kivilahtio         drojf: You could say "I hit the ground running"
12:39 kivilahtio         drojf: I can say the packages worked for me using the Ubuntu-guide
12:39 drojf              so maybe i made an on-the-fly ubuntu version out of it ;)
12:38 drojf              i used the debian instructions in installation workshops with people that never used linux (at least some of them). i explained a lot about every step though
12:37 oleonard           ...while the Debian instructions say things like, "Oh, and you might want to install mysql or whatever."
12:37 oleonard           I think that's right. I followed the Ubuntu package installation instructions while installing on Debian and found everything to work.
12:35 drojf              oleonard: my impression is that the debian instructions are all commands you need for the installation if you have any idea of a debian-based system, ubuntu instructions are kind of a really verbose version of that. but i have not looked at the ubuntu instructions in a while
12:34 drojf              i just learned you can't checkout a tag that git does not know about because you should rebase once in a while. who would have thought of that. ;)
12:31 oleonard           However, I came away wondering why the Debian and Ubuntu package installation instructions are different.
12:30 oleonard           I finally had an opportunity to install Koha from the packages, and I'm sold.
12:19 oleonard           Hi #koha
11:56 drojf              i'll also need to apply less patches manually i think
11:55 drojf              nice. 3.12 it is :)
11:55 magnuse            drojf: wizzyrea got inspired, i think :-) pretty nice, eh?
11:55 magnuse            my customers have been using 3.12.x since 3.12.1 without any complaints (but then they are only using core functions, like circ and cataloguing)
11:54 drojf              hi magnuse
11:54 magnuse            moin drojf
11:45 drojf              woah, what happened to the website? :)
11:42 drojf              any problems in 3.12 that should keep me from upgrading?
11:39 drojf              hi #koha
09:22 dcook              When I say process, I mean a handful of steps
09:22 dcook              If you get stumped, people are here to help :)
09:21 dcook              Works on Wheezy too
09:21 dcook              http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.x_on_Debian_Squeeze
09:21 dcook              The packages have their own install process, but it's heaps easier
09:19 paxed              so, you all are suggesting there's no need to follow the install process at all, and go with the packages + gitify instead?
09:15 paxed              wrong window and tab
09:15 paxed              oops. sorry.
09:15 paxed              magnuse: yes
09:11 rangi              theres even a package built from master about 4 hours ago
09:11 kf                 but i will as soon as i get a free minute :)
09:11 kf                 still have to try out gitify
09:11 rangi              but yep, gitify switches to running from git, but you get the benefit of all the package scripts
09:11 dcook              I think my last one was 30 minutes because I got sidetracked by food
09:10 dcook              I think wizzyrea did a Debian package install in 20 minutes the other day
09:10 magnuse            http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Building_Debian_Packages_-_The_Easy_Way
09:10 kf                 also that yep
09:10 rangi              and you do patches against master, not a released version
09:09 kf                 we roll our own packages now as some others do
09:09 dcook              ^^
09:09 kf                 and you would not use your production installation for that :)
09:09 dcook              Your "kohaclone"
09:09 dcook              It allows you to have a package instance pointing at a git repository
09:09 dcook              paxed: That's what gitify is for
09:09 paxed              uh-huh. and when/if we'll start using koha, and i'd need to develop something to/for it, i'm sure you'll appreciate me doing patches against a released version.
09:08 dcook              Although I don't think gitify takes into account Zebra differences
09:08 dcook              Well said, rangi.
09:08 dcook              hehe
09:07 magnuse            lol
09:07 rangi              i mean i could go out and hunt my own food, but i prefer to buy it packaged
09:07 kf                 yeah, that's the easiest
09:07 kf                 there are different ways to install koha for different things
09:07 rangi              id still do it with packages, then gitify it
09:07 kf                 yes, you first have to determine what you want to do
09:06 magnuse            well, INSTALL.debian should be the one to use then
09:05 paxed              any of the INSTALL files. piecing things together, as every one of them seems to have slightly different instructions. git master. debian
09:01 wahanui            it has been said that packages is at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian
09:01 kf                 packages?
09:01 kf                 and did someone point you to packages?
09:01 kf                 paxed: which Install files? whch version? which OS? :)
09:00 paxed              by following the INSTALL* files. getting 403 when i go to localhost:8080
08:59 kf                 without more information we can't help
08:58 kf                 how did you try to install it?
08:56 paxed              looks like koha beats me. i can't even successfully install it.
08:40 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10643 normal, P5 - low, ---, kenza.zaki, Pushed to Stable , Inappropriate uses of $sth->finish() in C4::ClassSource.pm
08:40 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10644 normal, P5 - low, ---, kenza.zaki, Pushed to Stable , C4::ClassSource.pm needs unit tests
08:40 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10621 normal, P5 - low, ---, mirko, Pushed to Stable , Subscription alert emails have wrong from-address
08:40 jenkins_koha       * Galen Charlton: Bug 10644: (follow-up) remove inadvertant dependence on Perl 5.14
08:40 jenkins_koha       * root: Bug 10643: fix inappropriate uses of $sth->finish() in C4::ClassSource.pm
08:40 jenkins_koha       * Galen Charlton: Bug 10644: fix typos in test descriptions
08:40 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10516 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , Improve titles, breadcrumbs, and confirmation messages for Z39.50 server adds and updates
08:40 jenkins_koha       * Kenza Zaki: Bug 10644: add unit tests for ClassSource.pm
08:40 jenkins_koha       * Mirko Tietgen: Bug 10621: use correct from-address for subscription alert emails
08:40 jenkins_koha       * Katrin Fischer: Bug 10516 - Follow up - Fixing capitalization
08:40 jenkins_koha       * Owen Leonard: Bug 10516 - Improve titles, breadcrumbs, and confirmation messages for Z39.50 server adds and updates
08:40 jenkins_koha       Project Koha_3.8.x build #351: SUCCESS in 37 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/351/
08:37 dcook              Just doing some last minute changes to a new template...and thinking there has to be a better way..
08:36 dcook              I shouldn't be at work but I shouldn't be in bed :p
08:36 dcook              It's only 6:36pm!
08:36 dcook              Wha?
08:35 kf                 kia ora
08:35 kf                 dcook: go to bed! ;)
08:31 * dcook            waves to kf
08:31 magnuse            kia ora kf
08:23 rangi              unless you want stuff owned by root
08:23 rangi              dont run makefiles as root
08:23 rangi              its going to suggest your homedir, since you are root, thats /root
08:22 paxed              shouldn't*
08:22 paxed              but really, it should suggest a path that's not world-readable at least.
08:22 paxed              well, i'm in a VM which has nothing else on it.
08:21 magnuse            ah...
08:21 magnuse            huh, does Makefile.PL suggest that?
08:21 rangi              well running perl Makefile.PL as root isnt a good idea
08:20 paxed              argh. i guess installing to /root/koha-dev as suggested by Makefile.PL wasn't such a good idea.
08:15 * lost_and_unfound waves goodbye
08:15 lost_and_unfound   thanks for all the help.
08:11 * magnuse          discovers http://wiki.perlrdf.org/view/Main_Page
08:08 * dcook            always figured it was a huginn specific thing
08:08 magnuse            bleargh, why can i never figure out how to identify...
08:06 cjh                dibs not.
08:05 dcook              But someone
08:05 dcook              Well, not you necessarily
08:05 * dcook            suspects you might have to suffer anyway
08:04 gaetan_B           i do have to thing of a way of pushing this bug forward, or we will have to suffer working on the frameworks for every customer to get this done
08:04 * dcook            thinks MJ should have a Koha workshop at Cafe Koha in London : http://www.cafekoha.com/
08:04 huginn`            magnuse: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
08:04 magnuse            @quote add <rangi> instead of throwing more money down a hole with RDA, why not do something actually useful for people who use a library
08:04 rangi              the 'Yes, but what have you done for me lately' one
08:04 gaetan_B           meanwhile
08:04 gaetan_B           i wrote a very confiused sentence at (10:01:11) , i meant we should be doing clustering of course, but i guess that was clear
08:03 dcook              It sounds delicious...
08:03 magnuse            rangi++
08:03 rangi              hehe
08:03 dcook              kohacone!
08:03 rangi              well one of my talks
08:03 rangi              -e
08:03 rangi              im covering this in my talk at kohacone
08:03 dcook              hehe
08:03 * gaetan_B         puts his fingers in his ears and starts singing loudly
08:03 gaetan_B           :D
08:03 gaetan_B           rangi: oh my god don't even talk to me about rda
08:03 cjh                go jenkins go
08:02 jenkins_koha       Starting build #351 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
08:02 rangi              gaetan_B: instead of throwing more money down a hole with RDA, why not do something actually useful for people who use a library
08:02 gaetan_B           it's ok magnuse, its existence is still reassuring :)
08:02 rangi              gaetan_B: exactly
08:01 magnuse            lost_and_unfound: yay!
08:01 magnuse            gaetan_B: thanks, but marc-must-die.info has been very inactive for a long time now...
08:01 gaetan_B           when i saw it i thought really hard "how nice it would be if we didn't have to spend time thinking of ways of doing interesting things like clustering with our data, instead of pulling our hair out thinking of ways marking marc work"
08:01 lost_and_unfound   magnuse, thanks, I ran a rebuild_nozebra.pl and it appears to have fixed the issue
08:00 dcook              gaetan_B: That was my first thought too. Similar timing.
08:00 magnuse            rangi: do you think you will get your marc2rdf into 3.14?
08:00 dcook              It's encouragement ;)
08:00 magnuse            hm, might be wise to save the ++ for when i have actually done it :-)
08:00 gaetan_B           rangi: ah at first i thought it had to do with the reading app called oyster
07:59 dcook              magnuse++
07:59 rangi              awesome
07:59 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10788 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, magnus, NEW , Add a Linked Data/RDF browser to the OPAC
07:59 * magnuse          hopes to submit a patch for bug 10788 this week
07:59 cjh                hahaha
07:58 rangi              if you hit it again, you see the code we can use to escape our MARC prison
07:58 rangi              :)
07:58 rangi              hit the right arrow once
07:58 rangi              gaetan_B: http://slid.es/ranginui/oyster
07:58 gaetan_B           rangi: what slide ?
07:57 gaetan_B           when i saw the link
07:57 dcook              magnuse: Mmm, that's why is sounded familiar
07:57 gaetan_B           and crying
07:57 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10726 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, sonia.lemaire, Needs Signoff , Default Unimarc framework in accordance with new edition of the Unimarc manual
07:57 gaetan_B           i was looking at bug 10726
07:57 gaetan_B           rangi: hmmm no
07:57 paxed              dcook: a part in INSTALL-file.
07:57 rangi              gaetan_B: have you seen my slide?
07:57 gaetan_B           :D
07:57 gaetan_B           pretty awesome !
07:57 gaetan_B           magnuse: just discovered your marc must die website !
07:57 magnuse            dcook: it's the OPACBaseURL syspref
07:56 dcook              paxed: I don't do much multilingual stuff myself, so I don't have a ready answer for you there. What's "1.2 optional foreign lang install"?
07:56 magnuse            dcook: some syspref, let me find it...
07:55 paxed              also the 1.2 optional foreign lang install won't work as-is.
07:54 dcook              It could be that someone forgot to add it
07:54 paxed              why is the "Listen 8080" missing from INSTALL?
07:52 dcook              I think I've wondered the same thing before
07:52 dcook              magnuse: What's that description attached to?
07:51 dcook              Hmm
07:50 magnuse            "This must be filled in correctly for RSS, unAPI, and search plugins to work" - what on earth are "search plugins"?
07:49 magnuse            easy to forget
07:49 paxed              blah
07:49 paxed              hm. i was sure i did that, but that must've been one of the previous VMs ...
07:49 magnuse            or reload
07:49 dcook              Followed by a restart, I believe
07:49 magnuse            e.g. /etc/apache2/ports.conf or something like that
07:49 dcook              ^^
07:48 magnuse            paxed: did you add "Listen 8080" to the apache config?
07:47 paxed              magnuse: no, i never got that far - no idea why localhost:8080 doesn't answer.
07:47 magnuse            lost_and_unfound: probably the biblio and biblioitems tables, at least (just guessing, though)
07:36 lost_and_unfound   With NoZebra enabled, what table/field in MySQL is used when doing a search? (koha 3.0.0)
07:30 kivilahtio         gitification sounds epic
07:30 * dcook            is a big fan of gitify
07:30 kivilahtio         rangi: ok, paxed will be happy to read these after he returns from lunch
07:30 magnuse            hehe
07:29 * dcook            swears that was coincidental timing
07:29 wahanui            somebody said gitify was at https://github.com/mkfifo/koha-gitify
07:29 magnuse            gitify?
07:29 dcook              https://github.com/mkfifo/koha-gitify
07:29 rangi              there is even a script that will gitify a package installation for you
07:29 kivilahtio         rangi: dev install indeed
07:29 * rangi            assumed you were talking about a dev install
07:29 * magnuse          used to do that, but stopped doing it a while ago
07:28 rangi              so dont do that
07:28 magnuse            ah, never mind me, listen to rangi instead
07:28 rangi              course running git on a production server is mental
07:28 wahanui            kivilahtio: huh?
07:28 kivilahtio         wahanui: so true
07:28 magnuse            or at least run your live install off the packages and use a git/dev install for development/testing
07:28 rangi              to point to your git checkout instead
07:28 rangi              then just change your koha-conf.xml and corresponding apache conf
07:27 wahanui            i heard koha-create was part of the package :)
07:27 rangi              koha-create
07:27 magnuse            kivilahtio, paxed: install on debian and use the packages
07:27 rangi              yup install with packages
07:27 kivilahtio         rangi: now that awesome
07:27 kivilahtio         rangi: relly?
07:27 rangi              you can still do that with packages
07:27 kivilahtio         dcook: paxed wanted to vecause he is hard-core. I think it has to do with git and making code commits possible?
07:26 * dcook            is wondering why kivilahtio and paxed are installing from source and not Deb packages
07:25 kivilahtio         BTW paxed is our head programmer here in Joensuu, Finland. And to our amazement installing Koha from source is a BIT difficult. Contradicting installation instructions don't help either.
07:25 lost_and_unfound   when a koha deployment works with 'NoZebra' and you do a keyword or title search in the web interface, which MySQL table/field does it preform the search on?
07:21 magnuse            paxed: that is part of the web based installer - did you get that far?
07:09 paxed              i'm guessing the install process is supposed to create the db schema at some point. koha no worky for me, because for some reason it didn't...
06:57 reiveune           hello
06:51 gaetan_B           hello
06:39 lost_and_unfound   http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9662/g4z8.png
06:39 lost_and_unfound   thanks very much for the help cait
06:38 cait               bbl
06:38 cait               have to go
06:35 lost_and_unfound   I will run the framework test and see what is the results
06:33 cait               it's been deprecated for ages now and has been removed since
06:33 cait               nozebra might be a bit of a blind spot for most people here
06:33 lost_and_unfound   I am trying to find a pattern... I have done 3 word searches. 1.) law [valid], 2.)lawsa [error], 3.) notavalidsearch [invalid]. only using the "lawsa" word generates the error, the "law" and "notavalidsearch" word return data and no data respectively
06:31 cait               it could show you some more obvious problems
06:30 magnuse            ...in 3.0.x
06:30 cait               you could try running the bibliographic framework test that is under administration
06:30 magnuse            there is a rebuild_nozebra.pl script
06:30 cait               for example a misconfiguratoin in the marc frameworks
06:30 cait               your problem can also have other sources i think
06:29 cait               good morning magnuse
06:29 cait               but i have never used such an installation
06:29 wahanui            okay, cait.
06:29 cait               i think there is also a script to rebuild with using nozebra
06:29 * magnuse          waves
06:28 lost_and_unfound   so yesterday I also did a mysqlcheck on the tables and found some tables needed to be repaired, I have also completed that
06:28 cait               that would be my guess
06:28 cait               so nozebra was used - which will use the mysql database for searching
06:28 cait               installing zebra with 3.0 and multiple instances (not quite a standard setup) might have proven to hard
06:26 cait               and it explains the missing setup for zebra
06:26 cait               it looks like it
06:24 lost_and_unfound   so let me see if I understand this correct. In the 'About' section it shows that the zebra utility is availble ( http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3516/6oci.png ), however in the settings, the zebra is not used. So even if I do a rebuild it will have no effect on the current issue.
06:20 lost_and_unfound   seemed to have found something
06:20 lost_and_unfound   ok... http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5001/bxl0.png
06:17 cait               you can use the search on top, look for nozebra
06:17 cait               that or Admin
06:17 cait               i think it should be in search maybe
06:17 cait               those are only the local use ones
06:16 lost_and_unfound   cait, http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8670/5gvi.png
06:14 lost_and_unfound   looking to see what I can find
06:12 cait               it's not something that should be switched after installation, because needs setup, but would be intersting to see what it's set to
06:12 cait               it's in administration system preferences.... search for zebra
06:11 cait               in 3.0 there was still a nozebra option
06:11 * lost_and_unfound is all ears
06:11 cait               that's something you could check i guess
06:11 cait               oh
06:11 cait               if it's 3.0 it could be running without zebra even
06:11 lost_and_unfound   this is one of those "a guy work on in and left the company 3 years ago, no one touched it until now"-scenarios
06:11 cait               yeah, i have no idea about that :(
06:10 cait               he even changed the staff css it looks like :)
06:10 lost_and_unfound   ok, but in the paste i mention that the zebra log files are old (thing 2008) and I do not see a zebra instance running, just the port 9999
06:10 cait               do you know who set your Koha up?
06:09 cait               andfor each the environment variables are a bit different - because pointing to the conf file
06:09 cait               you can't run it for all of them at once I don't think - there should be separated indexes
06:09 cait               you will want to make sure you run the rebuild for the right instance
06:09 lost_and_unfound   ^^ all the db's running
06:08 lost_and_unfound   http://pastie.org/private/dqbrk73yffie8knwxhowbq
06:08 cait               i am not a system administrator
06:08 cait               i am not sure what advice to give you
06:07 lost_and_unfound   differnt MySQL db for each instance
06:07 lost_and_unfound   from from port 8080 to 8090
06:07 lost_and_unfound   yip
06:07 lost_and_unfound   cait, this whole setup is interesting
06:07 cait               are there really running multiple kohas on that machine?
06:06 cait               hm your etc/koha is interesting
06:06 lost_and_unfound   sorry for the repeat
06:06 lost_and_unfound   I did, but i was AFK and my chat history does not go back that far :/
06:05 cait               lost_and_unfound: you already asked that yesterday i think ;)
06:03 lost_and_unfound   I know that version 3.0.0 is ancient, however, I am trying to understand the setup of koha. Can I just run the zebra rebuilding without any implications / side effects: http://pastie.org/private/gusyfgrtpx8rndhwyspuqg#
06:01 lost_and_unfound   greetings all
04:09 eythian            http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/B004XXMUCQ/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_0?ie=UTF8&index=0
04:04 mtompset           Have a great day, #koha.
04:04 * mtompset         goes poof.
03:57 mtompset           However, it was a lovely time at the writing a test ball. :)
03:57 mtompset           I may turn into a pumpkin.
03:56 mtompset           Hmmm... nearing midnight.
03:54 jcamins            And it has nothing to do with Koha.
03:53 jcamins            However, I figured out the problem. Sort of.
03:53 jcamins            We use prove.
03:53 mtompset           test harness in a makefile?
03:52 huginn`            mtompset: Quote #63: "<jwagner> But no one expects the Spammish Inquisition!" (added by jdavidb at 01:50 PM, March 01, 2010)
03:52 mtompset           @quote random
03:51 jcamins            And then there are the unit tests that all pass, except for when you use the test harness in the makefile.
03:51 mtompset           Out of context quotes are the best for random quoting. :)
03:50 eythian            well yes, though at least you have a handy tool that tells you how much dumb you have left to fix :)
03:50 huginn`            mtompset: The operation succeeded.  Quote #278 added.
03:50 mtompset           @quote add "jcamins: ... OMGOMGOMG MUST FIX ALL THE THINGS."
03:49 jcamins            eythian: on the other hand, more iterations of "gosh, that was dumb. Better fix it" Unlike the other way, where it's just one big "OMGOMGOMG MUST FIX ALL THE THINGS."
03:49 eythian            whereas if you write the tests after, you end up refactoring code to be testable which produces a better design, but is omething you should have done up-front.
03:48 eythian            Writing the test is faster than the debugging, leads to code structured in a way that lends itself to being diagnosed in small units, and fewer iterations of "have I fixed it yet?"
03:48 jcamins            The larger the development, the more dramatic the difference.
03:48 jcamins            Fastest development is always test first.
03:48 mtompset           Sadly, I have.
03:48 jcamins            mtompset: I have never found that to be the case.
03:47 mtompset           eythian: It is slower. Writing the test takes as much time as the debugging, which wouldn't go any faster if the test was written first. Writing the specification first, then the tests, then the code only serves to find the flaw in the specifications, which revises the tests and then the code, and the cycle may repeat multiple times.
03:43 eythian            then you need to come up with the detail yourself. Which, at the level of code, you probably should be doing anyway.
03:43 mtompset           sometimes the specification is a sentence from the user with so much running space. :)
03:43 dcook              Feels a bit late for that now though
03:43 dcook              Yeah, that's the thought in the back of my mind...
03:43 dcook              hehe
03:43 eythian            dcook: then you haven't properly specified it :)
03:42 eythian            it feels a lot slower, but you actually end up saving a lot of time.
03:42 dcook              But you don't know how your code is going to evolve over time
03:42 dcook              Yeah, I like that idea in theory
03:42 mtompset           eythian: sometimes it's more fun to code on the fly.
03:42 eythian            write the test first, and then write the code to stop it failing.
03:41 dcook              Yeah, I wrote a test a while ago and now I figure I'll just wait until I'm done before revising that test..
03:41 mtompset           I'll stop trying to add functionality. That will make writing the tests easier. :P
03:39 eythian            that's OK, the next one will only take half a day :D
03:37 mtompset           There. It took all day, but I have a test written. YAY!
03:15 eythian            hmm, might just be our version that has these issues. Probably needs a cleanup.
03:12 eythian            there are _far_ too many warnings coming out of Auth.pm
02:56 eythian            also, new packages from master published
02:56 * eythian          uses power for good
02:56 rangi              :)
02:56 eythian            there we go, now it's passed QA :)
02:51 rangi              that did it
02:51 rangi              +use C4::Auth;
02:51 rangi              995f4b6ecb504e1648816b0841e90efb814f25c7
02:50 rangi              and it found me the bad commit
02:50 * rangi            plays with git bisect run prove -l t/ILSDI_Services.t
02:46 rangi              yep
02:46 eythian            like, remove the connection details from C4::Context or something, so that things will fail no matter if there's a db there or not.
02:45 eythian            I was thinking we should have the 00-load.t test behave like there's no connection, it'd catch a lot of the cases anyway.
02:44 rangi              fwiw i test by switching off mysql
02:42 rangi              i fixed it by mocking the dbh call
02:42 huginn`            04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10897 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , t/ILSDI_Services.t is db dependent
02:42 rangi              bug 10897
02:42 eythian            what's the bug number, I'll roll it in
02:42 eythian            oh, handy :)
02:42 rangi              i just fixed that
02:41 eythian            do people not test this properly?
02:41 eythian            ...
02:41 eythian            DBI connect('dbname=koha;host=localhost;port=3306','kohaadmin',...) failed: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2) at /tmp/buildd/koha-3.13/blib/PERL_MODULE_DIR/C4/Context.pm line 810
02:41 eythian            arg master packages can't build due to test failure
02:30 eythian            well, you could fix the test as an additional patch to your bug if it's needed. I don't imagine anyone would complain about that.
02:30 dcook              Whoa...permissions have changed a lot in master..
02:29 mtompset           bad as in quality, not in functionality.
02:29 dcook              A bad test makes me think the test doesn't work :p
02:28 dcook              So a suboptimal test
02:28 mtompset           Using the :: instead of the ->
02:28 dcook              A bad test?
02:28 dcook              One Bug to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
02:28 dcook              One Bug to rule them all, One Bug to find them,
02:28 mtompset           *sigh* I just want my test for the patch to work on the current master, so I guess a bad test it is. :(
02:27 eythian            one bug to cover them all is probably sufficient.
02:25 mtompset           So a bug report for each function/method of C4::Context that isn't called like an object?
02:23 * mtompset         nods.
02:22 rangi              ideally you would have a method to get the version to
02:21 mtompset           Though, not in the purest object form sense. :)
02:20 rangi              kinda
02:20 mtompset           I suppose C4::Context::KOHAVERSION is a variable, so :: makes sense?
02:19 mtompset           set_shelves_userenv
02:18 mtompset           but looking at the content of Auth.pm -- Should there be any C4::Context::<blah>'s at all?
02:14 rangi              C4/Auth.pm and installer/InstallAuth.pm
02:14 rangi              luckily its only in 2 files (and the tests)
02:13 mtompset           Oh mercy!
02:13 rangi              so yeah it needs to be fixed
02:12 rangi              C4/Auth.pm:1497:            C4::Context->set_userenv( "$borrowernumber", $userid, $cardnumber
02:12 rangi              C4/Auth.pm:645:            C4::Context::set_userenv(
02:12 rangi              its even worse
02:10 rangi              and having a hlaf object .pm is kinda mental
02:10 rangi              there are more using -> than ::
02:09 rangi              InstallAuth and Auth.pm
02:09 rangi              there are are precisely 2
02:09 jcamins            Yeah, but you have to do that regardless.
02:09 mtompset           But you would also have to go looking for C4::Context(::|->)set_userenv calls.
02:08 rangi              id file a bug to fix C4::Context
02:07 mtompset           rangi++ # thank you for noticing. :)
02:07 rangi              the pod needs to be fixed too
02:07 mtompset           jcamins++ # thank you for checking.
02:06 mtompset           Yes.
02:06 jcamins            rangi: yeah, C4::Context fails to handle the first argument.
02:05 rangi              that line?
02:05 rangi              C4::Context->set_userenv ( @USERENV );
02:04 jcamins            Confirmed.
02:03 mtompset           Could someone else confirm this: t/db_dependent/Members.t Line 50... the -> should be a ::
02:01 mtompset           What madness that was!
02:01 mtompset           Good Lord! I found a bug in a test that I was using to create my own.
01:49 * eythian          bids three hundred quatloos for the newcomers.
01:46 tweetbot_          [off] @oleonard: "A hundred quatloos to the one who signs off on my new #KohaILS OPAC theme."
01:23 mtompset           I mean patron.
01:23 mtompset           Faking a dummy member should be easy.
01:22 mtompset           I can't seem to get it quite right.
01:22 * mtompset         grumbles about the pains of writing a test.
00:22 dcook              Good guess
00:22 jcamins            There may have been, but that's my guess.
00:21 dcook              So no real purpose aside from that?
00:21 dcook              I suppose items.booksellerid is still a misnoner but at least it's a medium text field..
00:20 dcook              jcamins++
00:20 dcook              Thanks jcamins :)
00:19 dcook              That's interesting how it sort of maps across
00:18 dcook              That makes more sense :)
00:18 dcook              Ahhh
00:17 huginn`            jcamins: [Described in full under field 876 in the MARC 21 Concise Format for Holdings Data.] (Repeatable) []
00:17 jcamins            @marc 876
00:17 jcamins            876.
00:17 jcamins            I don't have holdings bookmarked.
00:17 jcamins            Sorry, that's not the one I was thinking of.
00:16 dcook              Wouldn't the source of acquisition be the source of acquisition and not its holding location?
00:16 dcook              Especially as a "booksellerid" unless that's a DB name that's a holdover from something else
00:16 dcook              Still don't see how that would fit into the 852
00:16 dcook              O_o
00:14 huginn`            jcamins: Identifies the organization holding the item or from which it is available. May also contain detailed information about how to locate the item in a collection. (Repeatable) [a,b,c,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,p,q,s,t,u,x,z,2,3,6,8]
00:14 jcamins            @marc 852
00:13 dcook              852?
00:13 jcamins            For mapping 852.
00:12 dcook              I suppose there might be value in knowing the source of acquisition for an item...but it doesn't appear that it really display anywhere in Koha.
00:12 dcook              Anyone have any idea why 952$e "source of acquisition" exists?