Time Nick Message 23:56 jcamins (if anyone else has a favorite recipe, I'd use that, too, I just think wizzyrea has made fast, foolproof stovetop custard before) 23:56 jcamins wizzyrea: by "does anyone" I mean, "does wizzyrea?" :) 23:55 jcamins Shari wants custard. Does anyone have any fast, foolproof stove-top custard recipes they recommend? 23:49 mtj_ i should hopefully be able to do some QA stuff today, if anyone has suggestions... 23:46 * mtj_ waves to #koha 23:46 mtj_ hi all 23:38 tcohen is there one for life of brian? 23:36 jcamins Wow. That trailer was great. 23:34 tcohen I fixed the namespace name as u suggested 23:32 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10733 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Memcached on package installs 23:32 tcohen mtompset: i've just attached a new, squashed version of my patches for bug 10733 23:11 * dcook shrugs 23:11 dcook But it doesn't show that edition when you click through from the braille facet... 23:11 dcook Aha...there is a braille version 23:09 * dcook looks around for the tv cameras 23:09 dcook Just realized the title of that "braille" book was "How to lie with statistics" 23:08 jcamins Heh. 23:08 dcook Oh well. It's not Koha. I don't really care atm. 23:05 dcook O_o 23:05 dcook Book (14) Braille (26) 23:05 wizzyrea ah that is hilarious eythian 23:05 dcook Or rather, are retrieved by clicking the Braille subfacet 23:05 dcook Braille is a subfacet of Book...but other items than just books have the Braille subfacet... 23:04 dcook Actually, this catalogue is quite weird.. 23:03 dcook hehe 23:03 jcamins dcook: that's kind of ironic. 23:03 dcook So I click on a "Braille" facet and the first book that comes up is illustrated... 23:02 eythian http://youtu.be/hKNDml12Big 22:46 wizzyrea sh 22:45 eythian Geocentric, much? :) 22:44 wizzyrea Thanks Gravity! 22:44 * wizzyrea just feels lucky not to be flung out into space. 22:43 wizzyrea I suppose you do go around the *axis* of the earth every 24 hours >.> 22:43 wizzyrea no talky. 22:43 wizzyrea sh. 22:43 wizzyrea oh wait lol. 22:42 wizzyrea that's the sun dear. 22:33 eythian I go around it at least once every 24 hours. 22:32 rambutan he seems to be a world traveler 22:29 wizzyrea oh he's so much more than that. :P 22:25 wahanui eythian is probably an expert bot trainer 22:25 rambutan hey eythian 22:24 eythian hi 22:18 rambutan check 22:18 rambutan That's one of the things we'll chekc 22:18 rambutan Kaspersky 22:18 jcamins I can't explain exactly why anti-virus would cause an issue, but my gut instinct is that I may have overlooked more aggressive anti-virus systems. 22:17 jcamins Do you have any anti-virus? 22:16 rambutan BTW, we've confirmed the transactions load fine on linux (Mint), tomorrow I'm going to work more w/ J on the windows side, but now I'm less concerned about it 22:16 rambutan yea 3.10.03 22:14 jcamins You're still on 3.10.something, yes? 22:14 jcamins rambutan: excellent. 22:13 rambutan jcamins: yea, I like that! 21:46 jcamins I tried a bunch of variations on "sorry, you can't log out because you're offline" dialogs, but they felt counterintuitive because why am I looking at a logout button if logging out isn't permitted? 21:45 jcamins rambutan: how about this for the logout issue: http://screencast.com/t/bFBpR0EL7Z 21:24 jcamins I just checked. 21:24 jcamins That _is_ the latest. 21:23 jcamins That should be pretty recent, though possibly not the latest. 21:21 jcamins 23. 21:19 jcamins I shall check the version of FF. 21:19 jcamins And Microsoft Security Essentials. 21:19 jcamins Yup. 21:19 rambutan did you test using win 7? 21:19 jcamins I'm wondering if some sort of "internet protection thing" might clear out the web browser to "protect" you. 21:18 rambutan hummm, wouldn't have thought that would nuke records 21:17 jcamins That shouldn't make a difference, as I made it a point of testing under Windows, but if you have anti-virus, that may do things to it. 21:17 rambutan yea 21:14 jcamins Was it Windows before? 21:13 rambutan We rebooted into linux, installed newest FF, and are now downloading records 21:13 jcamins Okay. 21:13 rambutan We're working on plan c ATM 21:12 jcamins rambutan: has it restarted? 20:18 rambutan but yes, we were logged in when attempting to sync 20:18 rambutan well, standby. We decided to do a reboot and now we have to wait for MS to install 5 updates. <bad bad words invoked here> 20:16 jcamins If you go to the home page of your staff client, are you logged in? 20:16 jcamins I suspect you may, but I have a thought about what the problem is. 20:15 rambutan that's what I thought too, but it doesn't work this time. Maybe we need the new set of files... 20:13 jcamins Last time all we had to do was click that button, and then go to "pending offline circulation actions." 20:12 rambutan yea, and it says no transactions found, just like before 20:11 jcamins And you tried clicking the "Upload transactions" button even though it says "No transactions to upload"? 20:11 rambutan no 20:11 jcamins Do you have some sort of privacy plugin that wipes the browser's settings? 20:10 rambutan closing the browser and restarting the computer nukes them 20:10 rambutan now having said all that, we did this testing again and can't find the transactions to sync "not found". What did we do before to get them back? 20:09 jcamins I guess I could also just hide the logout button. 20:09 rambutan or something that simply says: "there is no need to logout in the offline module, simply close the browser?????) .... not sure 20:08 jcamins So maybe the best option would be something that checks if you're online, and if you're not says "sorry, you cannot log out while offline"? 20:07 rambutan and going to the next stop, where they want to "logon" again, lather, rinse, repeat 20:07 jcamins I see. 20:07 jcamins Ohhh. 20:07 rambutan when you complete transactions at one stop/location, the users aren't sure what to do, instinctively they want to "logout" before shutting down the computer... 20:06 rambutan jcamins: no, thinking of bookmobile stops... 20:06 jcamins cait: that works. 20:06 cait i called it: What we are working on right now... 20:06 jcamins That's the disadvantage with the fixed times. 20:06 jcamins That's okay. 20:05 quoc_uy i was out 3 hour, can't get meeting on 18.00 20:05 quoc_uy i'm fine 20:05 jcamins cait: "Who is working on what"? 20:04 jcamins Not bad. How about you? 20:04 quoc_uy hi jcamins, how are u? 20:04 jcamins What about a message "Are you sure you want to log out? Once you log out, you will not be able to log in again until you have a connection to your server." 20:03 cait hm how woud you name a section on the wiki page for 'who is working on what right now'? 20:03 quoc_uy So i missed irc-meeting one more time... 20:03 jcamins Hmm. 20:02 jcamins Of course, the problem is if there's an offline log off feature, there's no way to log back on if you realize you didn't mean to. 20:02 jcamins It didn't occur to me because I am used to the "dead circ desk connection" situation, where logging off is unnecessary. 20:01 jcamins That's a good point. 20:01 rambutan wonder if there should be (or is?) some way to indicate that? 20:01 jcamins Hmmm. 20:01 rambutan there's just the usual "log out" but that's if you are connected to koha live 20:00 rambutan for the offline module, there's nothing intuitive to indicate to users to log out 20:00 * jcamins waves. 19:59 rambutan ping jcamins 19:50 * cait starts QA Sprint Day by looking at 7180 19:48 cait was just reading there this minute :) 19:48 bag darn thanks cait figured something like that 19:47 bag ah failed to watch twitter 19:47 cait bag: I think he is travelling - judging from twitter 19:26 Jesse :) 19:26 druthb usually. 19:26 Jesse always blaming someone arent you ? :P 19:25 Jesse Hiya druthb 19:25 * druthb blames Jesse. 19:19 huginn` bag: The operation succeeded. 19:19 bag @later tell rangi - hey man shoot me a ping when you get in today :) Thanks 19:12 clint_ quit 19:01 cait :) 19:01 meliss thanks, cait 19:00 cait meliss: just noted your name in the meeting logs - welcome :) 18:58 cait karma! :) 18:58 druthb cait++ 18:57 * thd`` tries to recover from multiple identities. 18:56 tcohen cait++ 18:56 rhcl cait++ 18:56 drojf cait++ 18:56 huginn` Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/general_irc_meeting.2013-09-11-18.04.log.html 18:56 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/general_irc_meeting.2013-09-11-18.04.txt 18:56 huginn` Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/general_irc_meeting.2013-09-11-18.04.html 18:56 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Sep 11 18:56:19 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 18:56 cait #endmeeting 18:56 gmcharlt cait++ 18:56 talljoy cait++ 18:56 davidnind cait++ 18:56 drojf sorry, was in the kitchen :) 18:56 mtompset cait++ # thanks for chairing the meeting. 18:56 Brooke thanks for chairing. *sucker* ;) 18:56 cait go testing patches! 18:56 bgkriegel cait++ 18:56 cait thank you all for attending :) 18:55 cait #info next meeting will be on 9th October, 10 UTC 18:55 mtompset +1 October 9. 18:55 cait ok 18:55 cait sounds about right 18:55 davidnind 10:00 UTC 18:54 cait i asked drojf - didn't work :) 18:54 gmcharlt +1 10/9 18:54 talljoy +1 18:54 mtompset That works without interfering with the travelling of those going to KohaCon. 18:54 davidnind +1 9 October 18:54 oleonard Where are we in the time rotation? What's next? 18:54 thd`` What hour is next? 18:54 cait +1 18:54 tcohen +1 # 9 Oct 18:54 thd`` +1 18:54 oleonard Wed. 9 October? 18:54 cait oh sory, was looking at the wrong month 18:53 oleonard October 12 is a Saturday 18:53 tcohen why not just after kohacon14 voting end? 18:53 cait drojf: which time is next? 18:53 cait what about... october 12th? 18:53 cait and deadlines 18:52 cait and we are getting closer and closer to release 18:52 cait Brooke: not everyone is going there - so i think having one before wouldn't hurt 18:52 thd`` Do we want to set a time after the votes on KohaCon14 have been tallied? 18:52 cait #topic Set time for next meeting 18:52 cait roughly in a month... before kohacon? 18:52 Brooke isn't next meeting essentially KohaCon? 18:51 cait i think we can move on and decide a time and date for the next :) 18:51 mtompset Also back under KohaCon related issues, my Filipino colleague is dreaming of how to make a 2015 proposal work. But no promises. :) 18:51 Brooke 0/ 18:51 cait ok, as there are actually no actions left from last meeting it seems 18:51 cait ;) 18:51 cait #action drojf will set up a limesurvey 18:51 cait hm missed to delete the questionmark 18:50 cait #agreed the vote for kohacon14 will be open from 23september to 6 october? 18:49 bag oh darn she's out 18:49 cait drojf++ 18:49 cait cool 18:49 drojf i can do a limesurvey i guess 18:49 bag nengard can you? 18:49 tajoli +1 18:49 cait have we figured out who will set up the vote? 18:49 davidnind +1 18:49 drojf that would be two weeks and cover the beginning of october part, but would not delay things unnecessarily 18:49 cait +1 18:49 bgkriegel +1 18:49 mtompset +1 18:48 tcohen +1 18:48 cait sounds ok to me 18:48 drojf what about voting from 23september to 6 october? 18:48 phred_ Sorry for delay--just found e-mail from Nancy--need 125 rooms booked, didn't say how many had been (as of 28 August) 18:48 cait maybe 2 18:47 drojf how long did we do the last times? open polls for a week or something? 18:47 drojf because next meeting will be after that 18:46 drojf we said beginning of october. sow e should probably fix that now 18:46 cait drojf: have we talked about that yet? 18:46 tcohen np 18:46 cait tcohen: sorry, was too fast 18:46 tcohen when will it happen? 18:45 cait #topic Actions from previous meeting 18:45 wahanui voting is http://ci.openstack.org/meetbot.html 18:45 tcohen voting? 18:45 cait ok, next topic 18:45 cait true :) 18:45 drojf one would have been easy :) 18:45 cait drojf: 2 will be easy for voting i think? 18:45 drojf i think that's about it 18:44 drojf and i do not expect another one coming up in the next three days, but who knows 18:44 drojf argentina and nigeria 18:44 drojf we have two proposals 18:44 drojf i set 18 UTC as the time, so there is one 18:44 drojf as you have probably seen, i have sent out another mail. proposals close 15 september 18:43 cait #topic KohaCon14 18:43 drojf yup 18:43 cait i thnk we can move on? 18:42 thd drogf: The host goal is to break even on expenses. If anything goes wrong, then they loose. 18:42 drojf iw as a little confused by the calculation of every registration equals a room booked 18:42 cait or look for more sponsors 18:42 drojf ok 18:41 oleonard We don't have a mechanism set up to charge attendees 18:41 oleonard As the hosts I think they would have to pay drojf 18:41 cait #link http://koha-community.org/koha-community-newsletter-august-2013/#kohacon13 18:41 drojf and by they you mean you? 18:41 phred_ ISTR it was 125, with about 100 registered. 18:40 cait that's what i understood 18:40 cait I think they have to pay for the meeting rooms then 18:40 thd How many more reservations are needed? 18:40 drojf i don't think it is mandatory to sleep in that hotel, is it? so in theory, is it possible that there won't be a conference location if not enough people get rooms? 18:40 cait i think the email had it 18:40 thd The note does not give a reminder of the required number for meeting the hotel conditions. 18:39 wahanui drojf is from Germany and developing Koha on a raspberry pi! 18:39 cait yes drojf? 18:39 cait so if you are guilty of going to KohaCon but not having done your bookings yet... 18:39 wahanui question is "What is the meaning of life, the universe and everything?" 18:39 drojf question 18:39 drojf hm 18:39 cait it looks like we need more people reserving rooms at the hotel 18:39 cait #info news from nancy were sent to the mailinglist and are also noted on the agenda 18:38 cait #topic KohaCon2013 18:37 cait oleonard: ok 18:37 cait will try again soon, but would be nice if someone beat me to it 18:37 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2720 enhancement, P3, ---, kyle, Signed Off , Overdues which debar automatically should undebar automatically when returned 18:37 oleonard cait, we contributed money towards Bug 2720, so we're anxious to see that pass 18:37 tcohen i'll be around to help on them if needed 18:36 cait tcohen: have been trying, but my vm ... was annoying 18:36 gmcharlt tajoli++ 18:36 tcohen packages patches 18:36 gmcharlt drojf++ 18:36 cait ok, i see that nancy has left a note on the wiki 18:36 gmcharlt cait++ 18:36 cait drojf: excellent priority :) 18:36 drojf :P 18:36 drojf good qa 18:35 cait your chance ;) 18:35 cait is there something people would like to see given top priority in QA? 18:35 cait any more questions and notes about this topic? 18:35 tajoli That all folk 18:35 tcohen cineca++ 18:35 cait cineca++ 18:35 tajoli So if tomorrow you have a simple 'sign off', write me and I send it to her 18:34 tajoli but not now 18:34 tajoli I think that in some month she could stard to write unit test also 18:33 tajoli so, if you receive an email from her, answer as longer as you can 18:32 tajoli she worked heavly on waterfall metodology 18:32 cait or just note on the bug :) 18:32 cait maybe she can note that - or she can drop on irc and ask if there is something she is not sure about 18:31 tajoli She stritly follow the plan inside 18:31 cait or maybe i confuse her 18:31 tajoli But she doesn't have a big knowldge of Koha 18:31 cait tajoli: I think I have seen her name on some patches already? 18:30 tajoli She speak Italian and English 18:30 mtompset oleonard has the helicopter to transport the person. ;) 18:30 tajoli Her name is 'Paola Rossi' <paola.rossi@cineca.it> 18:30 drojf if there is no language barrier 18:29 cait i was going to suggest that too :) 18:29 drojf tajoli: you should probably send the person here 18:29 cait tajoli: sounds good 18:29 tajoli this person is working only on bugs in 'Need Sign Off' to test them 18:28 tcohen heh 18:28 * oleonard dispatches the QA team to Kiribati in a black helicopter 18:28 drojf tajoli++ 18:28 cait #info if you care about a feature, don't hesitate to give it another good testing and sign off 18:28 tajoli As CINECA we try to sponsor an our internal IT as 'sign offer' 18:27 cait I think it actually might have started already in kiribati or so? 18:27 tajoli I have an annucement about sign off 18:27 cait it's something new we try out, we will have to see how it goes I think 18:26 mtompset But will it be coordinated after GBSD's in the future? 18:26 cait please feel free to test test test everything you can get your hands on :) 18:26 cait so it's not a GBSD - but with 169 bugs in needs signoff... and 51 of that bugs... 18:25 cait there are some pretty big patches in the qa queue right now that take a lot of time testing 18:25 cait best with some notes what you looked at 18:24 cait or third.. fourth... 18:24 cait and for the big features you want to see moved through qa a second sign off would make help 18:24 tcohen sounds great, can we non-QA people help? 18:24 cait but right now I think the needs sign off queue needs some work too... 18:24 cait mtj++ has added a wiki page for it and i hope that lots of QA will be done 18:24 cait #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/2013-09-12_QA_Sprint_day 18:23 cait and one of the ideas that came up was a QA sprint day 18:23 cait we had a qa team meeting and discussed some ideas on how to get things moving and flowing a bit better 18:23 cait #topic QA sprint day 18:23 tajoli In fact yes, is the same question 18:23 cait if there are no more questions we can move on? 18:22 mtompset ^verses^versus^ 18:22 gmcharlt no, looks like tajoli had asked the same question you had asked, cait :) 18:22 mtompset frozen out, verses slushing in. :) 18:22 cait then I missed it :) 18:22 gmcharlt I did answer the question about the distinction between slush and freeze, if that's what you're referring to 18:22 tcohen tajoli: any feature that is passed-qa by feature slush is elegible for 3.14, otherwise it isnt. 18:21 gmcharlt ah, no, missed it 18:21 cait gmcharlt: have you seen tajoli's question? 18:20 bag ok cool thanks galen 18:20 cait i think it's doable 18:20 gmcharlt but be assured, it /will/ be in 3.14 18:20 bag ok subtract just from my statement cait :) 18:20 gmcharlt also, the current patch series uses an otion that the DBIC maintainer specifically recommends against 18:20 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries 18:20 cait just... :) 18:20 gmcharlt the current patch series needs some cleanup, and there are some FK to be added 18:20 bag is it just getting the DB foriegn keys worked out... 18:19 bag gmcharlt: what's the road block for DBIx::Class currently? 18:19 gmcharlt which is a sine qua non from my POV 18:19 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8190 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Add a logging module to Koha 18:19 gmcharlt essentially, the idea in the patch series for bug 8190, but a version that supports syslog 18:19 gmcharlt thd: system events, debug info 18:18 tajoli The differce beetwenn slush and freeze ? 18:18 cait just a thank you for your work gmcharlt++ 18:18 thd What is intended to be logged for a logging feature? 18:17 gmcharlt any questions for me? 18:17 * thd was thinking of other domains in which slush is used. 18:17 gmcharlt instaed, I'll do so shortly after feature freeze 18:17 gmcharlt also, another announcement -- I did not, of course, actually do a tarball of a pre-pre-alpha 18:17 thd OK 18:16 gmcharlt a partial freeze, of course 18:16 thd Why does slush have the name slush? 18:16 gmcharlt new features that have /not/ hit passed QA by feature slush are more liable to be left for the next release; if you want something that misses slush to make it in, you'll need to advocate for it 18:16 cait thx :) 18:15 gmcharlt cait: feature slush -- any new features that have hit passed QA by that date will be included in 3.14, assuming they don't raise signfiicant QA concerns on my part 18:15 tcohen gmcharlt++ 18:15 cait gmcharlt++ 18:14 gmcharlt #info RM emphasis for this release is reinforcing the QA process -- patches must have sufficient review to be accepted, and I'm heavily pushing for unit tests 18:14 cait gmcharlt: can you define feature slush a little? want to prevent any misunderstandings if possible :) 18:13 gmcharlt #info planning a big push, well, push next week after the QA sprint tomorroow 18:13 gmcharlt #info Architectural changes that are still on the table for inclusion in 3.14 are DBIx::Class and some sort of logging module 18:13 gmcharlt #info Feature freeze remains at 2013-10-03 18:12 gmcharlt #info Feature slush remains at 2012-09-25 18:12 gmcharlt OK 18:12 cait #topic Update on 3.14 18:12 cait thx tcohen - tcohen++ :) 18:12 tcohen and that's it :-D 18:11 tcohen trying to catch up with master 18:11 cait sounds good to me 18:11 tcohen (dom-as-default would be a 3.14 feature) 18:11 tcohen but leaving grs1 as default 18:11 tcohen i plan to cherry-pick dom indexing support for packages 18:11 talljoy #info Joy Nelson ByWater Solutions 18:10 tcohen 3.12 is getting mature, no big bugs arise 18:10 cait tcohen: the stage is yours :) 18:10 cait #topic Update on 3.12 18:10 cait iwill move to 3.12 then? 18:10 cait thx for your work :) 18:09 cait bgkriegel++ 18:09 bgkriegel but i will catch up 18:09 bgkriegel all is well, a little behind 18:09 cait #topic Update on 3.10 18:09 bgkriegel yes :) 18:09 clint_ #info clintD, Anact, NZ 18:08 cait :) 18:08 wahanui bgkriegel is on a signoff spree 18:08 cait bgkriegel? 18:08 cait ok, is chrish around? 18:08 gmcharlt "... in other news, the sky is blue today" 18:08 NateC I like space 18:08 drnoe #info David Noe, ByWater Solutions 18:07 cait no announcements? :) 18:07 cait *waits* 18:07 cait #topic Announcements 18:07 tcohen yeap 18:06 cait all done? 18:06 bag #info Brendan Gallagher ByWater 18:06 cait maybe that should have been #link :) 18:06 NateC Nate Curulla: Bywater Solutions 18:06 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 18:06 tajoli #info Zeno Tajoli, CINECA, Italy 18:05 mtompset tajoli: You forgot the #info. 18:05 cait #info Agenda for today's meeting: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_11th_September_2013 18:05 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 18:05 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin, Germany 18:05 tajoli Zeno Tajoli, CINECA, Italy 18:05 phred_ #info Fred King, Washington Hospital Center 18:05 jwagner #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS 18:05 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett 18:05 bgkriegel #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel, Cordoba, Argentina 18:05 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba 18:05 meliss #info Melissa Lefebvre, ByWater Solutions 18:05 druthb #info D Ruth Bavousett 18:05 khall #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions 18:05 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand 18:05 * thd is typing in lower case and yet the caps lock key is down. What causes that? 18:05 NateC #info 18:05 mduncan #info Margo Duncan, University of Texas at Tyler 18:05 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany 18:05 nengard #info Nicole Engard, ByWater Solutions 18:05 cait please introduce yourself using #info 18:05 gmcharlt #info Galen Charlton, Equinox Software, 3.14 RM 18:04 rhcl #info rhcl = Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 18:04 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 18:04 cait #topic Introductions 18:04 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting' 18:04 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 18:04 huginn` Meeting started Wed Sep 11 18:04:41 2013 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:04 cait #startmeeting General IRC Meeting 18:04 thd I will take a turn one day but my keyboard is barely working at present. 18:04 drojf yay cait 18:04 cait i can try - with some help getting the actions and infos in place 18:03 drojf that's a lot of volunteers 18:03 gmcharlt speaking of which, it's time now, so who is moderating it? 18:03 khall tcohen: that's a good idea 18:02 cait but maybe discuss at the meeting? :) 18:02 cait drojf does i guess 18:02 drojf thd: beginning of october 18:01 thd Does anyone remember when we had agreed to schedule a vote on the KohaCon14 bids, now that we actually have two options for a contest? 18:01 drojf in case someone gets a moderation request for the mailing lists when unlisted addresses are used as senders… sorry, please delete my mail :) 18:01 tcohen khall? 18:00 cait maybe just ask kyle to split out the template as a patch for 3.12? 18:00 cait oh 18:00 cait I am a bit confused :) 18:00 tcohen everything seems to depend on course reserves right now 18:00 cait hm does it happen that often? 17:59 tcohen yes 17:59 cait tcohen: you mean new plugins? 17:59 drojf oops. mailing list fail 17:58 tcohen can i add to "coding guidelines" that template plugins should go in a separate commit? 17:57 cait :) 17:57 mtompset I hope it is more meaningful than next, next, next. :) 17:57 bag oh popcorn! hmm I'm going to go make some 17:57 bag yay!!! feels the excitement 17:55 talljoy mmmm....popcorn 17:54 * druthb offers talljoy some popcorn. 17:53 * talljoy hides from druthb 17:45 * druthb is in a sassy mood, cait; you better watch out. 17:44 druthb ….then I still have chocolate. 17:44 druthb oh, no worries. Is the world still turning? 17:44 mtompset Yep... of course, I'd offer you a chocolate, but it has to last me until tomorrow. ;) 17:44 druthb I don't like overly sweet, but super-salty is no good, either 17:43 cait druthb: excellent, i don't like salty :) 17:43 oleonard Gonna have to miss the meeting after all guys, my apologies. 17:43 * druthb shoots a rubber band at wahanui. 17:42 wahanui Better is "take cover." :) 17:42 druthb Better? 17:41 * druthb offers mtompset the celery. 17:41 * druthb tips the delivery boy, who flees from her wrath. 17:41 druthb sweet-ish. 17:41 * druthb gives the delivery boy the ebil eye as he comes in, with a package of celery sticks. 17:41 cait sweet or salty? 17:41 * cait takes the popcorn 17:41 * druthb looks impatiently at the door 17:40 * druthb picks up her cell phone, taps at it for a moment. 17:40 druthb hm. Maybe. 17:40 mtompset ^an^any^ 17:40 mtompset Sadly, not on my diet. :( Have an celery? 17:39 * druthb offers popcorn. 17:39 * druthb scrunches in. 17:39 * mtompset scoots over. 17:39 mtompset Sorry, my thighs haven't shrunk much on my diet yet. :( 17:38 * druthb makes the popcorn for the meeting, gets a big bowl, and tells mtompset to scoot over n make room for another spectator. 17:24 * druthb hides. 17:23 * mtompset braces for impact. ;) 17:20 cait everyone get ready - meeting in 40 min :) 16:37 druthb cPanellers have a reputation for consuming lots of alcomohols at these events. "Don't be the story" is the mantra. 16:36 rambutan I was thinking those same implications :) 16:35 druthb (implying, of course, that a) this is a problem, and b) they *don't* arrest people for that in Houston.) 16:33 druthb "don't miss the bus, be on time for your preso, wear your fancy polo. oh, and don't pee in the gutter in NOLA. They arrest people for that there. 16:33 druthb The "protocol" meeting for the cPanel conference was about useless. 16:32 druthb I have filled my meeting quota for the day. 16:31 rambutan funny :) 16:31 * druthb gets out the Goo-Gone, so she can untape herself and RUN AWAY. 16:31 magnuse druthb: you planning to stick around for the meeting, then? ;-) 16:30 * druthb gets out the duct tape, and tapes herself to her chair. 16:30 kf magnuse: sorry, was on the phone typing :) but glad you found it 16:10 kf :) 16:10 magnuse i might catch that, perhaps 16:10 magnuse ah, meeting i 1 hour 50 minutes 16:09 magnuse kf++ branchtransfers was what i was looking for 16:06 kf transfers tabel for the manual ones 16:06 kf if it's a ohld reserve 16:06 kf in the reserves table in status i think 16:06 magnuse ooh, there is a meeting? 16:06 wahanui T is for unit tests like functionality stuffs 16:06 magnuse kf: T? 16:00 * oleonard will be back for the meeting 15:57 kf transfers table or T 15:54 magnuse or to put it another way: how can i write sql that finds items that are in transit? 15:51 magnuse ? 15:51 magnuse lazy question: how are items marked as "in transit" (in the database) 15:48 oleonard Thanks, I see the problem 15:47 kf oleonard: yes, I think so 15:46 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10850 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Give Quick spine label template page its own id 15:46 oleonard kf: Does Bug 10850 refer to /cgi-bin/koha/labels/spinelabel-print.pl ? 15:28 * jcamins justifies this absurd process to himself by saying "hey, we're only on version 0.0.4." 15:27 jcamins gmcharlt: I need JSON for Biblionarrator, but I'm too lazy to write a node.js module that generates MiJ, so instead I'm uploading all my MARC files to my development server, where I run a tiny script that opens them and spits out MiJ, and download the result. 15:26 gmcharlt *valuable 15:26 gmcharlt jcamins: unpack that a little? the flip side is that you are providing valuing beta testing for a new module :) 15:25 jcamins gmcharlt: really using MARC::File::MiJ is just laziness on my part and I ought to be ashamed of myself, or something. 15:21 jcamins Yep. 15:20 gmcharlt jcamins: good thing it's only 0.1ish :) 15:20 jcamins Or, at least, it seems to be. 15:19 jcamins gmcharlt: since I know you have been anxiously awaiting the answer, it is "no." 15:15 mtompset But those sections which jcamins made appear always are blank, tcohen. So, it's not really a big deal, is it? 15:12 gmcharlt jcamins: I haven't played with enough to have an opinion -- check with BillDueber in #code4lib 15:11 jcamins gmcharlt: hey, are we sure that MARC::File::MiJ actually handles non-ascii? 15:01 jcamins tcohen: yeah, I make several sections appear always. 15:00 kivilahtio jcamins: ok 15:00 jcamins kivilahtio: not really. 15:00 tcohen jcamins, your patch changes the template's logic in several places 14:59 kivilahtio jcamins: does the Koha community have a security team 14:59 kivilahtio jcamins: do you have any idea who would help us make such a security audit? 14:59 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10405 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , User-editable sections should have ids 14:59 tcohen bug 10405 14:58 jcamins Maybe ByWater? 14:58 jcamins I'm not sure if anyone else has either. 14:58 jcamins No. 14:57 kivilahtio jcamins: Like purchase a security certificate from a 3rd party? 14:57 kivilahtio jcamins: But you havent conducted any security reviews? 14:57 jcamins I don't think so, though I guess there might be. 14:57 jcamins It is as secure as your server. It's all available to anyone with the permissions to view it. 14:57 kivilahtio jcamins: I guess there is no way of hiding the SSN from unauthorized librarians? 14:56 jcamins For me, the accountability of having the SSN available for librarians and disgruntled student employees to steal greatly outweighs the accountability of being able to look up SSN. 14:56 kivilahtio jcamins: yeah, that was our initial plan, but how secure that is? 14:56 kivilahtio and the fear that they never can fine patrons who won't return books 14:55 jcamins I know of libraries that use extended patron attributes for SSN. 14:55 kivilahtio I think it has to do with accountability 14:55 kivilahtio jcamins: we too, but they don't want to lose the SSN 14:55 jcamins kivilahtio: I generally try to persuade my libraries not to. 14:55 kivilahtio ssn? 14:55 kivilahtio do you need to store your patrons SSNs? 14:54 kivilahtio While reading the implementation checklist, I noticed custom patron fields. I remember we loved that attribute, but I am curious whther or not you use SSNs with your patron records? 14:50 chris_n ok, I marked the bug 'wontfix' because the "problem" is really not with our code; added a note of explanation saying as much 14:47 jcamins Aleph-- # pretty sure these records came from Aleph. 14:44 * chris_n imagines dilbert on fire 14:43 chris_n gmcharlt: its probably not a bad idea over all and would lend welcomed flexibility for those who need their particular variation of the theme 14:43 jcamins chris_n: well, maybe. 14:43 chris_n jcamins: its probably more likely that users would be exploding into flames trying to get their brains wrapped around the proper algorithm :) 14:42 gmcharlt (in conjunction with everything that such a column would imply) 14:41 gmcharlt a new class_sources.splitting_rule might be a Nice Thing 14:41 jcamins Silly chris_n... what could possibly go wrong? (computer explodes in flames) 14:41 gmcharlt hmm 14:40 chris_n but that may create more problems than it solves 14:39 chris_n but I suppose that we could entertain a system preference which would permit users to cook up their own splitting regexp to be applied if they so chose 14:39 chris_n the way the code is currently written, ccn is a fall back for when lcc or ddc fails to split (which is probably very seldom in reality) 14:38 jcamins ... not that I'm surprised. 14:38 jcamins Oh man. This file is a mess. 14:37 chris_n nengard: ccn should not be used as a type 14:36 pastebot "chris_n" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "CCN Split Test" (49 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/213 14:35 gmcharlt that only invites longer term problems 14:35 gmcharlt nengard: please don't make a general recommendation for folks to set it to anything other than LCC for the LC call numbers 14:35 nengard :) 14:34 chris_n hold on 14:34 chris_n actually not just on spaces 14:34 chris_n nengard: ccn will split on spaces 14:34 nengard and you said it only splits at spaces 14:33 nengard which isn't quite right cause it's supposed to split at the dots too 14:33 Joubu thanks oleonard-away for signing off and the followup! 14:33 nengard so instead of LCC everyone should choose CCN if they want it to split the way they expect it to 14:33 nengard k 14:32 gmcharlt they use a variation of LCCN 14:32 gmcharlt National Library of Medicine 14:32 chris_n it is 14:32 gmcharlt and lcc is the same as nlm (or should be) for splitting purposes 14:32 * chris_n is not sure what nlm is 14:31 chris_n the custom simply splits on spaces I think 14:31 chris_n nengard: the underlying code allows for lcc, nlm, ddc, and then falls back to the ccn (custom call number split) 14:30 gmcharlt each item can specify what it's correct call number type is 14:30 jcamins That'll work. 14:30 gmcharlt nengard: I think what chris_n is saying is that the call number class is not just a global setting 14:30 gmcharlt MARC::File::XML does know how to transcode, though, so you can do the iso2709->marcxml->utf8 route that way 14:30 jcamins Bah humbug. 14:29 nengard there is Dewey, LCC, Sudoc, Generic ... i think there might be more than that 14:29 gmcharlt which is a hole to be filled, yes 14:29 gmcharlt jcamins: there isn't actually an equivalent of $record->to_charset() 14:29 nengard There are more than 3 14:29 nengard are you saying instead it should be a 'custom' 14:29 chris_n nengard: there are three options at present I think; let me look 14:28 jcamins Wait... no, that's just the leader. 14:28 chris_n otherwise they are all split as whatever the default CN system is set to 14:28 nengard chris_n - didn't they say that they had it set to LCC? 14:28 jcamins $record->encoding('UTF-8'); 14:28 jcamins I knew there was a one-liner. 14:28 gmcharlt chris_n: yes 14:28 jcamins Here it is. 14:28 chris_n nengard: the other important point this bug brings up is the need of properly setting the call number source at the item level 14:27 chris_n gmcharlt: looks good; did you happen to add a note to 10821? 14:26 gmcharlt chris_n: https://code.google.com/p/library-callnumber-lc/issues/detail?id=7 14:25 jcamins gmcharlt: I don't suppose you have an example somewhere of using MARC::Batch to convert from MARC-8 to UTF-8? 14:23 jcamins marc8-- 14:20 gmcharlt sec 14:19 chris_n gmcharlt: will you pass on the request or should it be filed as a bug somewhere? 14:18 nengard heh 14:17 * chris_n always wondered why it seemed that LCCN spine labels were shouting at him 14:17 gmcharlt indeed 14:16 chris_n forcing uc should probably be an option in any case 14:16 chris_n gmcharlt: the components method could also be made to consider any rules which permit prefixes and suffixes 14:16 nengard k 14:15 gmcharlt dbwells, actually 14:15 nengard chris_n?? :) 14:15 gmcharlt chris_n: nengard: I do see enough here to convince me that a non-normalizing version of L::C::LC->components() is worth asking for -- and I know just the person to bug about it 14:13 nengard and suffixes to your call numbers 14:13 nengard yeah, but there are rules that allow for adding prefixes 14:12 gmcharlt I don't mean that entirely seriously, but there is just a bit of GIGO going on here IMO 14:12 gmcharlt nengard: the bug reporter is not following standard LCCN practice -- how is that a good thing? 14:12 chris_n nengard: that module "normalizes" LCCNs 14:12 nengard cause it worked for most libraries then 14:12 nengard then it should go back to the way it was 14:12 chris_n I think the odds of being able to parse all sorts of version of LCCNs is remote at best 14:11 nengard wait a second - the splitter is adding in characters - it's adding in spaces and dots ... how is that a good thing? 14:11 gmcharlt chris_n: a not-likely-to-get-around-to-any-time-soon, at least -- after alll, the architecture does support somebody writing a funky_LCCN sorter 14:11 nengard chris_n please don't say that 14:11 kf I will do it, when I get around.... 14:10 gmcharlt sound it out :) 14:10 chris_n gmcharlt: I'm thinking its a "wont' fix" bug then 14:10 jcamins nengard: ideally they are round. 14:10 gmcharlt nengard: they're round tuits, specifically 14:09 nengard okay .... what are tuits 14:09 gmcharlt chris_n: upon skimming, I suspect that it does indeed boil down to out-of-spec numbers; the work that motivated the introduction of L::C::LC came with specific examples of real live call numbers 14:09 chris_n jcamins: throw some on the next truck headed down I95 if you don't mind; I'll try them 14:08 jcamins chris_n: don't knock cinnamon cream-coated tuits until you've tried them. 14:08 gmcharlt heh 14:08 chris_n better be chocolate coated :) 14:07 * kf hands gmcharlt a bowl of tuits 14:06 chris_n it look like it boils down to out-of-spec LC numbers to me 14:06 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10821 major, P1 - high, ---, cnighswonger, In Discussion , label pdf adding in strange breaking 14:06 chris_n gmcharlt: did you have a chance to look at my musings on bug 10821? 14:05 jcamins Thanks. 14:05 jcamins There's nothing on the bug, and I can't remember if you asked me a question that I was supposed to get back to you on. 14:04 gmcharlt jcamins: tuits 14:04 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5202 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Passed QA , Merge authority records 14:04 jcamins gmcharlt: is there anything specific holding up bug 5202, or just tuits? 14:02 msaby bye 14:01 gmcharlt oleonard++ # meeting reminder 13:43 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8252 critical, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Needs Signoff , Error in DOM biblio for UNIMARC (no range for fields 1xx) 13:43 msaby (other bugs about fixing DOM for unimarc are bug 8252 - need signoff - and 7421, signed by kf ) 13:39 msaby (the patch is a bit larger than the title of the bug) 13:38 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9830 normal, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Needs Signoff , Some UNIMARC item indexes could be broken whith Queryweightfields syspref 13:38 msaby I am thinking of bug 9830 13:37 msaby I don't know if it can explain vfernandes problem 13:37 msaby and there is a specif pbm for searching some fields in the item 13:37 msaby DOM indexing in unimarc is broken 13:37 msaby for vfernandes and unimarc bugs 13:36 * jcamins looks up, expecting to see Cybermen or Daleks chasing msaby. :) 13:36 msaby I am not here for a question, but an answer ;-) 13:36 oleonard Then you'd better ask your question msaby ;) 13:35 msaby I don't have a lot of time 13:35 msaby Greetings, #koha 13:28 Joubu arf, I don't reproduce 13:26 Joubu no... If zebra returns undef 13:26 Joubu I don't remember exactly, I think the issue is: if a search is launched and zebra returns no result, without this patch I got an error 13:26 oleonard Would I have gotten an error on the opac search history page after trying a search? 13:25 oleonard Yes--at least I think I did! 13:25 Joubu oleonard: Hi! Did you try to stop zebra? 13:23 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10807 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , OPAC: There is no authority search history 13:23 oleonard Joubu: How can I test the second patch on Bug 10807? 13:18 vfernandes kf: yes I'm using DOM 13:09 quoc_uy okie. 13:09 mtompset Yes. 13:09 mtompset Not for another 5 hours, I believe. 13:09 quoc_uy it's about 5 hours to the meeting, isn't it? 13:08 quoc_uy i am waithing for general meeting :), i missed it 2 months 13:08 talljoy good morning! 13:08 quoc_uy :) 13:07 mtompset There... finally got my patches up. :) 13:07 quoc_uy hi all 13:06 mtompset Greetings, quoc_uy talljoy Dyrcona. 12:41 tcohen morning #koha 12:41 mtompset oleonard++ # for being sweet, but more for the meeting reminder. ;) 12:40 nengard that was sweet of him :) 12:40 nengard awww 12:40 paul_p nengard = yes, oleonard don't want anyone forgetting my birthday :D 12:39 mtompset Greetings, oleonard -- Thanks for the meeting reminder. :) 12:39 nengard ugh - i retweeted it :) 12:39 nengard hehe 12:39 oleonard Ugh 12:39 mtompset Greetings, matts paul_p tcohen nengard. :) 12:38 nengard oleonard ^ 12:38 nengard owen that link you put on twitter is for january 9th ... 12:26 mtompset Greetings, #koha. 12:19 nengard hiya all 12:18 kf hi oleonard :) 12:17 oleonard Hi #koha 12:03 kf are you using DOM? 12:03 kf vfernandes: i think there is a bug about item indexing and dom in unimarc 10:58 vfernandes using Koha search in any field I get 0 results 10:58 vfernandes in yaz-client if I do the search 'f @attr 1=1016 "01000014912"', I get one record 10:52 vfernandes I don't know what I could do now 10:44 vfernandes removing "# just to index every subfield" didn't work 10:33 vfernandes dcook++ 10:33 vfernandes ok thanks dcook 10:33 vfernandes first i'm trying removing without "# just to index every subfield" 10:32 dcook Anyway, I really should be running (hours ago). I hope that helps or that someone else is able to help you out 10:29 dcook Try commenting out "melm 995 item # just to index every subfield" and reindexing 10:29 pastebot "dcook" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Compare UNIMARC 995 with MARC21 952" (56 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/212 10:29 pastebot "dcook" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Compare UNIMARC 995 with MARC21 952" (56 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/211 10:26 dcook ? 10:26 dcook Can you do a "list_all" and tell me what shows up for elements 10:25 dcook Hmm...that just shows it as marcxml 10:24 vfernandes then do a search and use "s" to show 10:24 vfernandes connect using the unix file, change to biblios database 10:24 vfernandes then: "base biblio", "form xml", "f @attr 1=1016 "search"", s 10:23 vfernandes yaz-client unix:/KOHA_HOME/var/run/zebradb/bibliosocket 10:22 dcook This might help explain: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Understanding_Zebra_indexing 10:22 vfernandes it's reindexing now 10:22 dcook I very rarely do that and I"ve only successfully done it once 10:22 dcook Quick question, how did you show the indexes in yazclient again? 10:21 dcook However, I think there would still be a bug even if it did just say item 10:21 dcook Yeah, it should just be item 10:21 wahanui well, interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad 10:21 dcook Interesting.. 10:19 vfernandes ? 10:19 vfernandes "item # just to index every subfield" sould be only "item" 10:17 dcook one moment 10:16 dcook That index name looks really strange 10:16 dcook <z:index name="item # just to index every subfield:w">01000014911 0 5714 ISCTE-IUL 0 MQ.103 FER*Aná (Res) 2011-04-29 0 AM_RES ISCTE-IUL ISCTE</z:index> 10:16 dcook <z:index name="item # just to index every subfield:w">01000014912 0 5713 ISCTE-IUL 0 MQ.103 FER*Aná 2011-04-29 0 AM_RES 2012-06-25 ISCTE-IUL ISCTE</z:index> 10:16 dcook Any idea what this is? 10:16 dcook Probably because each isn't being indexed separately 10:15 vfernandes so why I can get any results? 10:15 dcook It's probably concatenating all the 995 fields together... 10:14 vfernandes it's a barcode 10:14 vfernandes 0100001491205713 10:14 dcook This seems to have your call number and barcode in it... 10:14 dcook <z:index name="Any:w Any:p">0100001491105714ISCTE-IUL0MQ.103 FER*Aná (Res)2011-04-290AM_RESISCTE-IULISCTE</z:index> 10:14 dcook <z:index name="Any:w Any:p">0100001491205713ISCTE-IUL0MQ.103 FER*Aná2011-04-290AM_RES2012-06-25ISCTE-IULISCTE</z:index> 10:14 dcook Although it doesn't look like barcode is in the any index.. 10:12 dcook It looks your any index has data in it. I think the keyword uses the any index. 10:12 dcook Overall, it looks pretty good. Some of the indexes look a bit funny to me but I'm not familiar with UNIMARC (I use MARC21) and I'd have to double-check 10:07 vfernandes could be that? 10:07 vfernandes the name looks wrong 10:07 vfernandes look at the last two z:index 10:06 pastebot "vfernandes" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "record xml" (68 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/210 10:06 vfernandes now I can connect with yaz-client 10:05 vfernandes problem solved... 10:02 vfernandes i'm getting a error trying to use yaz-client 10:02 dcook paste.koha-community.org 10:02 dcook Use the following link for that.. 10:01 dcook Hmm, I'm not sure. I'm just about to leave for the day (8pm in Australia). I'm sure someone else might know. They'll probably need you to paste the results of your zebra reindexing 10:00 vfernandes yes UNIMARC 10:00 wahanui UNIMARC is http://www.ifla.org/en/publications/unimarc-formats-and-related-documentation 10:00 dcook UNIMARC? 09:59 vfernandes i Think this is correct 09:59 vfernandes record.abs 995$f barcode, item 09:58 vfernandes bc takes directly to the records, callnum give a result list to searches like "PS" 09:57 dcook Almost done my email...3 hours later... 09:57 * dcook says not really having the time to answer 09:57 dcook vfernandes: I'm not sure. Do those callnum and bc searches take you directly to the items or do they give you result lists? 09:57 dcook ^^ 09:51 drojf kivilahtio: if you find out it is too much power in the end, ask gmcharlt or rangi about running some automated testing for koha code on a small part of it :) 09:40 paul_p kivilahtio this server is just crazy if you want my opinion. 09:39 paul_p kivilahtio = please, give me your server, and I'll be able to run all our Koha libraries with it No doubt ! 09:38 vfernandes What could be? 09:38 vfernandes if I use keyword search I get 0 results, if I use the specific advanced search fields (callnum and bc) the searches work fine 09:36 vfernandes I'm getting problems searching for barcodes and callnumbers 09:34 vfernandes Can anyone help me with some search problems? 09:34 vfernandes Hi people 09:24 * drojf leaves for non-koha things and hopes he won't forget about the meeting 09:23 dcook [off] Oh man...I'm responding to an email...I've been responding for...over 1.5 hours...and there is still so much left to respond to...O_O 09:23 dcook I don't know if I'll make the next Kohacon but I've wanted to go to Argentina for years... 09:22 dcook hehe 09:22 drojf i would not have minded skipping the voting process though ^^ 09:21 drojf oh. i missed that we have two cool proposals for kohacon 2014 now 09:20 dcook I'm more of a software person though, so perhaps I heard something different :p 09:20 dcook I can't remember the exact specs but I think that server has 128GB Ram as well and something like 32 cores. 09:19 dcook well* 09:19 dcook kivilahtio: The New South Wales Parliament has more than double your bib record count on Koha as weell 09:19 drojf kf: you were right :) 09:18 drojf http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Koha+IRC+General+Meeting&iso=20130911T18 09:16 kivilahtio hope so 09:16 kivilahtio :D 09:16 kf and faster :) 09:16 rangi so i reckon you will be fine 09:16 rangi on a much smaller server 09:16 rangi nekls is bigger than you guys, 40+ branches more records and items 09:15 wahanui drojf: i'm not following you... 09:15 drojf wahanui: bad bot, no cookies 09:15 rangi nat lib venezuala runs 7 million records 09:15 kivilahtio drojf: that would be cool 09:15 drojf irc meeting? 09:15 drojf we should have a bot that knows such things 09:15 drojf meeting? 09:15 kivilahtio I have a gut feeling we could run into software problems 09:15 kf i am really not good with hardware specs, i leave that to my coworkers :) 09:14 drojf kivilahtio: i'd like to say you can run as much library as you wish with that kind of hardware, but that's just a guess :D 09:14 kf kivilahtio: based on what paul_p said... a big one?: ) 09:14 kivilahtio drojf: there is no kill like overkill! 09:14 kf drojf: i have noted 8 - hope it's right 09:14 kivilahtio drojf: two of those 09:13 kivilahtio drojf: that's what we had in mind for Evergreen 09:12 drojf 128gb ram? :D 09:12 drojf kf: is the meeting 7 or 8 for us? 09:12 kivilahtio Can anyone give me a tip about what kind of a library we could run with two servers specced at 128GB RAM, RAID-1 SSD's, 4x quad core 2.4Ghz. + nginx load balancer/web cache 09:10 dcook I remember reading that one a while ago.. 09:10 dcook rangi++ 09:10 dcook hehe 09:02 rangi http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2012/11/21/i-bought-a-car-by-sending-out-a-document-and-evaluating-salespeoples-written-responses/ 09:01 rangi i have a good blogpost about rfp 09:00 kivilahtio ++ 09:00 kivilahtio here's hoping for Koha 08:59 dcook Good luck kivilahtio :) 08:59 kivilahtio off to wirte some RFP's 08:59 kivilahtio anyway 08:59 kivilahtio otherwise there would have been no way of sticking to any budget or timeframe 08:58 kivilahtio well we didnt do much process diagrams until we really had to. Our task of learning two library systems was huge and figure out their capabilites, so we just based evaluations on manual entries 08:58 dcook Ah, perhaps I misread you 08:57 dcook For mapping existing processes probably 08:57 dcook Well... 08:57 dcook That is...not all features are necessarily contained in a module per se 08:57 kivilahtio but process diagrams are best for that as well 08:57 dcook I think features also go beyond modules 08:57 dcook Agreed 08:56 kivilahtio comparisons are hard 08:56 dcook I think that's also somewhat problematic when you do the ILS evaluations 08:56 dcook hehe 08:56 kivilahtio dcook: we noticed 08:56 dcook Perhaps even circulation 08:56 dcook Cataloguing as a concept might include cataloguing, acquisitions, authorities, and serials 08:56 kivilahtio patrons 08:55 kivilahtio cataloguing, acquisitions, serials ... 08:55 kivilahtio well, circluation 08:55 dcook Do you need to categorize them by module? 08:55 dcook Mapping existing processes and then outlining abstracted ideal ones (and perhaps even how it could in Millennium in some cases...) 08:54 kivilahtio but categorizing different requirements to various modules is hard 08:54 dcook Yeah, I ended up using flowcharts in the end 08:54 kivilahtio dcook: atleast for me it was rather mind boggling. But doable. I think process diagrams are the best tool 08:54 dcook And like you say...many libraries have different localizations which have been introduced over time 08:53 dcook True true 08:53 kivilahtio dcook: Seems to be impossible to make one. ILS is just such a huge entity 08:53 dcook kivilahtio: I think requirements specifications are the plagues of ever ILS scene ;) 08:53 dcook I suppose dans is supposed to be more literal.. 08:51 dcook I screw up dans and à sometimes. 08:51 dcook I had the feeling that might be it.. 08:51 paul_p dcook = main dans la main (dans = in) 08:51 kivilahtio :) 08:51 dcook Or is that hand to hand... 08:50 dcook paul_p: English probably stole it from French :p. main à main? 08:50 kivilahtio :) 08:50 kivilahtio paul_p: Experience has taught me as much 08:50 paul_p kivilahtio in french, we say "better one who knows that 10 who search" 08:50 paul_p kivilahtio no, I just suggest to work with someone who know. That could be us (BibLibre), Magnus, or anyone else involved in the community. 08:49 kivilahtio paul_p: So you suggest we work with Magnus to re-evaluate Koha, and arrange possible migration support and training? 08:48 paul_p dcook (hand-in-hand is a word to word translation. happy to know it's also english ;-) ) 08:47 kivilahtio not that it has anything to do with my project 08:47 dcook paul_p: Ahh, I didn't know that. That's cool. No Frenchisms that I see either :) 08:47 kivilahtio apaprently this requirements specification for a library has been a plague of the Finiish ILS scene for ever 08:47 dcook Our branch had one of the nicest migrations of the entire system (306 branches of differing sizes) though, so that made me happy 08:47 paul_p drojf = ++ (hélas!) libraries describe how to do instead of which goal they want 08:47 kivilahtio actually there is a national project in Finalnd, to make the ultimate techincal requirements specification for a ILS, they have 500 000€ funding for that 08:46 dcook I did requirements gathering for a Horizon to Millennium migration for a single branch once. It was...interesting. 08:46 paul_p dcook (knowing that we've a business partnership with magnus, so at the end we would probably work hand-in-hand -frenchism suspected-) 08:46 dcook Exactly 08:45 drojf dcook: yes, people describing a certain way to do things (like they are used to do it) instead of the goal they want to achieve… 08:45 dcook magnuse in Norway, slef (?) in the UK, paul_p in France 08:45 dcook But yeah...I think you'd be best off submitting your requirements list to some vendors (probably in English) 08:45 dcook It's amazing how often a "requirement" is actually a preference or an outmoded practice. 08:44 kivilahtio kf: Taht has been one of the many challenges 08:44 dcook Perhaps, although I'm skeptical of requirement documents sometimes... 08:44 kivilahtio dcook: yeah, we have a checklist of things we need and some process descriptions. Someone who know a system could go through our list of requirements and evaluate how well they match 08:44 dcook Requirements evaluation is a tough one especially in a consortium and with librarians (being a librarian, I'm allowed to say that :P). 08:43 dcook What kf said ^^ 08:43 dcook Eep 08:43 kf i think it takes a while to wrap your mind around an ILS 08:43 dcook Outsourcing requirements evaluation? 08:42 kivilahtio i guess a bit both 08:42 kivilahtio or we are realyl dumb :) 08:42 kivilahtio it is raelly complex 08:41 kivilahtio so we have been focusing on Eg for maybe 18 months, or 46 man-months 08:41 kivilahtio paul_p: but such is life :) 08:41 kivilahtio paul_p: on the hind-sight we should have outsourced the requirements evaluation 08:41 kivilahtio paul_p: then 8 man-months for requirements specification 08:40 kivilahtio paul_p: well. 2.5y is not exactly correct. I spent the first 6 months doing data migration to Eg and Koha 08:40 paul_p (not necessarly because of EG though) 08:40 paul_p kivilahtio I agree, because not being successfull after 2.5years is just insane. 08:39 kivilahtio kf: back then we decided to take the Evergreen route, but like I said our progress is so poor, we need to re-evaluate 08:39 dcook He'd be the person who'd know 08:38 kivilahtio kf: actualyl gmcharlt made a slight suggestion we might take a look at Koha ;) 08:38 kf hm bit bad that gmcharlt is not around, he knows both communities quite well 08:38 dcook paul_p: lol 08:38 kivilahtio drojf: I guess we are making slow progress that other devs actualyl would make localizable code 08:38 dcook kivilahtio: Evergreen certainly looks intimidating. I keep meaning to install it someday down the road but Koha is pretty straightforward, especially using packages. 08:38 kf some tend to come back as zombies but ingeneral i agree 08:38 kivilahtio drojf: Yeah we hired a guy to do that localization, but the Evergreen community doesn't play very nice with us 08:37 * paul_p loves chab (my partner) last quote on our biblibre channel "a good support ticket is a dead support ticket" 08:37 kf localizations 08:37 kf in terms of localiation 08:37 drojf kivilahtio: 8 months? woah 08:37 kivilahtio drojf: I totally loved it. I feel like I achieved more in the 3 hours i spent installing Koha yesterday than in 3 months of Evergreen 08:37 kf kivilahtio: and it's getting better all the time - but mostly in a good place now :) 08:37 kivilahtio paul_p: and some smaller rural library 08:37 drojf kivilahtio: you should be happy with koha when it comes to localizations 08:37 kivilahtio paul_p: so true 08:36 kivilahtio drojf: we have been trying to get localizations to work for 8 months 08:36 kivilahtio drojf: We have INSANE localization issues 08:36 paul_p kivilahtio IIRC, there's also a monestary in finland, using Koha (valamo ?) 08:36 kivilahtio we met few years ago 08:36 drojf dcook: that was my impression when we decided which system to use. rather us-centric 08:36 kivilahtio paul_p: already emailing him ;) and we have chatted and I think me in some occasion years ago 08:36 paul_p kivilahtio = I know finland & norway are different, but do you know that there's a nice guy in norway providing Koha support ( magnus_away => ping !) 08:36 kivilahtio paul_p: but it seems that we are strongly trying to simplify our parameters in wake of your municipal library cooperation 08:35 kivilahtio paul_p: we chose Evergreen for its consortial features and strong emphasis on individual library parametrization. 08:35 paul_p kivilahtio got it ! 08:34 kivilahtio paul_p: and possible migration support 08:34 kivilahtio paul_p: I posted an email to the Koha mailing list. We are looking for help in re-evaluating Koha 08:34 dcook I'm not super famililar with Evergreen, but I think it's mostly developed in North America? 08:34 paul_p kivilahtio and frankly, with only 20 branches, I'm not sure you need evergeen feature (there are some things that EG do, not Koha, in circulation management AFAIK) 08:34 dcook kivilahtio: That probably would've helped :p 08:34 dcook Only about 2000 patrons though 08:34 dcook Apparently we have a library with 900,000 biblios and 1,000,000 items 08:34 kivilahtio we should have done our Requirements specification in Enlgish :D 08:33 dcook Silly me 08:33 dcook I thought you meant Koha vendors 08:33 dcook Ahhh 08:33 kivilahtio dcook:various Evergreen vendors 08:33 kivilahtio and been mostly associated with techincal challenges, which have been aplenty 08:33 paul_p kivilahtio = http://catalogue.univ-aix-marseille.fr/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl 08:33 kivilahtio tho I became the project manager only 10 months ago 08:32 dcook enquiries to whom? 08:32 kivilahtio maybe it is my charming character :D 08:32 kivilahtio paul_p: way way more cheaper, but somehow all my enquiries have met deaf ears 08:32 dcook Agreed with paul_p 08:32 kivilahtio paul_p: well I agree 08:31 kivilahtio not to mention I have had lots of experience fighting out M$-only IT support deprtment for every right to move 08:31 rangi they have 40ish branches 08:31 paul_p kivilahtio you want my opinion = that would have been way cheaper to pay a company ! 08:31 rangi wizzyrea: you around? 08:31 kivilahtio I can say I have learned a lot 08:31 rangi ahh nekls might be worth talking to too 08:31 kivilahtio we have ~20 bracnhes 08:30 kivilahtio notsure if months add up 08:30 kivilahtio paul_p: yes, alone for first 7 months, then with one librarian for 10 months, and now we hire one more techie, for 10 months 08:30 paul_p kivilahtio = that's roughly the same size as AixMarseille. 08:30 * dcook is thinking of this in terms of politics and staff interactions 08:30 dcook I mean...how many physical branches? 08:30 kivilahtio dcook: 60 000 patrons, 400 000 biblios, 1 000 000 itesm 08:30 paul_p oh my god ! you mean you're working on this project since more than2.5 years ? incredible ! 08:29 dcook How big is Joensuu Regional Library? 08:29 kivilahtio dcook: I am fatigued :) 08:29 dcook Way too long 08:29 kivilahtio dcook: too long 08:29 dcook Holy... 08:29 kivilahtio dcook: yeah 08:29 dcook 2.5 years? 08:29 paul_p kivilahtio well, most of them are *much* smaller than AixMarseille university, someof them are x00 000 items 08:29 kivilahtio paul_p: Sorry for skipping introductions. I am Olli-Antti Kivilahti, from Finland. I was hired to compare OS ILS' for the Joensuu Regional Library and do data migration. Well after 2,5 years I am a project manager and wavering in my faith to migrate to Evergreen ILS 08:28 * dcook is always curious about numbers of customers 08:27 paul_p kivilahtio = we host something like 50 different customers, and we host many on a single 16GB / 4CPU / SAS15k hard disks 08:27 paul_p kivilahtio = (just in case: I'm Paul Poulain, from France, founder of BibLibre, the largest french company supporting Koha. And retired Koha Release Manager) 08:27 kivilahtio paul_p: Evergreen hardware requirements are raelly large 08:26 kivilahtio paul_p: just our workstations have 16GB RAM :) 08:26 kivilahtio paul_p: agreed 08:26 kivilahtio paul_p: agredd 08:26 paul_p kivilahtio = the hint here being "4 years old servers". 4 years ago, it was not that low ;-) 08:26 kivilahtio paul_p: this search was FAST http://www.cooslibraries.org/search~S0/?searchtype=X&searcharg=rock&sortdropdown=-&SORT=DZ&extended=0&SUBMIT=Search&searchlimits=&searchorigarg=Xoperation 08:25 kivilahtio paul_p: I mean that's crazy low 08:25 paul_p kivilahtio yep, really 08:25 kivilahtio paul_p: really? 16GB ram? 08:25 paul_p kivilahtio yep, I've seen. Limoges is not our largest library. The largest one is AixMarseille university, 1.400.000 items, 47 libraries. They're running a 4 years old server, with 16GB ram, 2 4CPU processors, and RAID5 (or RAID10 ?) disks 08:24 kivilahtio paul_p: and looking at the link posted by rangi: http://www.librarytechnology.org/lwc-displaylibrary.pl?RC=147552. It looks like your installation is about the same size as ours 08:24 dcook 81% that can't be right... 08:24 dcook Aha 08:24 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Regina, Saskatchewan is 8.0°C (2:00 AM CST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Windchill: 6.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Rising). 08:24 dcook @wunder yqr 08:24 dcook paul_p: Regina is nowhere near a fault line but maybe a meteorite! Actually, I think I just got a message from my parents. It must just be a very small place. 08:23 kivilahtio paul_p: And I was curious about the hardware requirements and server architectures in use 08:23 kivilahtio paul_p: we were talking about Koha performance under larger datasets 08:23 kivilahtio paul_p: sorry, I was lost in links 08:23 paul_p kivilahtio do you have a question about Limoges municipal network of Libraries ? 08:22 paul_p kivilahtio = rangi called me saying "maybe you could tak to paul_p about that one". 08:22 kivilahtio paul_p: I am not sure what you mean with "kivilahtio do you need me?" ? 08:19 paul_p dcook = maybe there's been an earthquake here ? or a meteorite ? ;-) 08:19 dcook paul_p: Yep. It's been pretty dry here for a while. Let's hope it continues... 08:18 dcook I'm sure I've done that one before.. 08:18 huginn` dcook: Error: No such location could be found. 08:18 dcook @wunder regina, canada 08:18 huginn` dcook: Error: No such location could be found. 08:18 dcook @wunder regina, saskatchewan 08:17 paul_p wow, dcook humidity 6% ! that's very very low ! 08:17 kivilahtio because I was a bit jealous of kf 08:17 kivilahtio because I was a bit jealous of kg 08:17 paul_p kivilahtio good point. 08:17 kivilahtio paul_p: I guess it depends whether or not you like winter 08:16 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Sydney Airport, New South Wales is 21.0°C (6:00 PM EST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 6%. Dew Point: -8.0°C. Pressure: 29.85 in 1011 hPa (Rising). 08:16 paul_p ( fortunately, no one from Africa, india on the channel :D ) 08:16 dcook @wunder sydney, australia 08:16 drojf unfair ^^ 08:16 paul_p hehe... I beat all of you :D 08:16 huginn` paul_p: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 19.0°C (10:00 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 49%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady). 08:16 paul_p @wunder Marseille 08:16 huginn` rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 14.0°C (8:00 PM NZST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.59 in 1002 hPa (Steady). 08:16 paul_p kivilahtio you need me ? 08:16 rangi @wunder nzwn 08:15 rangi or someone from bywater abbout that 08:15 huginn` kivilahtio: The current temperature in Joensuu, Finland is 13.0°C (10:50 AM EEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady). 08:15 kivilahtio @wunder Joensuu 08:15 rangi http://www.librarytechnology.org/lwc-displaylibrary.pl?RC=13654 08:14 kf good morning drojf 08:14 rangi you could talk to paul_p about that one 08:14 rangi kivilahtio: http://www.librarytechnology.org/lwc-displaylibrary.pl?RC=147552 08:14 kf BRRR! 08:14 huginn` kf: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 12.0°C (10:00 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Rising). 08:14 kf @wunder Konstanz 08:13 drojf brr 08:13 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 13.9°C (10:12 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady). 08:13 drojf @wunder berlin, germany 08:13 drojf good morning #koha 08:11 kivilahtio letäs hope he pops up 08:10 kivilahtio ok 08:10 kf he is located in argentina 08:10 kf kivilahtio: he is normally around a little later 08:09 kivilahtio rangi: kf: Hmm, could I email him? 08:09 rangi and some biggish ones 08:09 kf tcohen has a lot of koha instances to take care of 08:08 kf heh, not quite what i was looking for 08:08 kivilahtio ofc I could just dig up my old migration scripts and push our data to Koha ;) 08:08 wahanui tcohen is obsessed with packages' scripts 08:08 kf tcohen? 08:07 kivilahtio what does tcohen do? 08:07 kivilahtio understood 08:07 rangi kivilahtio: id talk to tcohen if you see him 08:07 kf not really - I am not taking care of the hardware and our installations are not as big 08:06 kivilahtio kf: Do you have any opinions about hardware? 08:06 kf so offering different library related services 08:06 kivilahtio kf: Do you have any opinions about performance? 08:06 kf yep, that's our union catalog, we are a library service center 08:06 dcook err catalogue even 08:06 dcook I think kf has the most beautiful catalog, iirc 08:06 kivilahtio SWB-online Katalog 08:05 kf ah, you are looking at the union catalog I think? 08:04 kivilahtio wow kf, yous searches are super fast 08:04 kivilahtio guten Morgen kf! 08:03 kivilahtio kf: I still remeber some german words so I can pull a catalog search atleast 08:02 * kf is in Germany - working for http://www.bsz-bw.de 08:02 kf :) 08:02 kivilahtio rangi: cool :) 08:01 rangi i work for http://catalyst.net.nz/ 08:01 rangi i dont work in a library 08:01 kivilahtio rangi: I think I already slipped our numbers 08:01 kivilahtio rangi: so how large is your library? 08:00 kivilahtio nginx might be the thing, since we are looking into more HA solution 08:00 rangi yep 08:00 rangi because they both do it a zillion times faster than apache can 08:00 kivilahtio 128 is pretty good for bang vs buck i think 08:00 rangi to deal with all the static content 08:00 rangi id definitely put nginx and/or varnish out in front of the apache too 07:59 rangi but like i say, the more you can put in, the more apache threads you can have 07:59 kivilahtio rangi: well you get load from your patrons. Lots of simultaneous searches 07:59 rangi id go for at least 32 07:59 rangi we aren't rendering things 07:59 kivilahtio rangi: good to hear 07:59 rangi nothign koha does is cpu bound to any real extent 07:58 rangi circ really doesnt work the cpu much at all 07:58 kivilahtio bibs vs ram, circulation/year vs cpu... 07:58 kivilahtio rangi: or do you have any hardware numbers i could correlate from? 07:58 kivilahtio rangi: can you give us any numbers? Like how much RAM is needed for 400 000 bibliographics records and 1 000 000 items= 07:57 dcook rangi: I'm not much of a dancer either :p 07:57 rangi but the /tmp as ram is a good win 07:57 rangi cos else a reboot would be a mess :) 07:57 rangi you want the actual indexes on disk tho 07:57 kivilahtio rangi: ok 07:57 rangi that is a big win 07:57 rangi so if you put that partition as ramdisk 07:57 kivilahtio rangi: ah 07:56 rangi kivilahtio: but the zebra indexing writes out the records to disk, as marcxml and adds them to the index 07:56 kivilahtio rangi: yeah, was planning to run it from RAM 07:56 kivilahtio kf: just thinking about Koha 07:56 rangi kivilahtio: the mysql server shouldnt do too much I/O if you have enough RAM 07:56 kf was just reading your email to the mailing list 07:56 kf hi kivilahtio 07:55 kivilahtio hi kf! 07:55 rangi hi kf 07:55 kf hi all 07:55 kf hi rangi 07:55 rangi and that will mean your search will be slow 07:55 kivilahtio rangi: do you mean high I/O for the mysql server? 07:55 rangi if you have slow disk, your zebra indexing will be slow 07:55 kivilahtio rangi: do you mean high I/O for the server? 07:55 kivilahtio rangi: clearly string operations :) 07:55 rangi I/O 07:55 kivilahtio rangi: so what are the performance bottlenecks? 07:54 rangi if you have to choose between fast cpu and fast ram/disk choose ram/disk 07:54 kivilahtio rangi: we were aiming for 128GB and SSD's 07:54 rangi my rule of thumb, get as much ram as you can afford and as fast a disk as you can afford 07:53 rangi its a bit of a how long is a piece of string 07:53 rangi nope 07:53 kivilahtio rangi: how about hardware? Do you have any established hardware requirements? 07:53 kivilahtio rangi: yeah 07:52 rangi because its all just a website 07:52 rangi but yep, any techniques you use to scale a website, you can use with koha 07:50 kivilahtio rangi: all the koha instances run on the same hardware 07:50 rangi there are mysqlcluster 07:50 kivilahtio rangi: nut sure if you have database load balancing solution in mysql like pgpool-II in postgresql 07:50 rangi thats not the same 07:50 rangi nope 07:50 kivilahtio rangi: have a public server, intranet server, master mysql server and hot-spare mysql 07:49 kivilahtio rangi: but you can achieve this using multiple web server 07:49 rangi (nginx in front and people cant even tell the difference) 07:49 rangi once you login, you hit the koha that does writes 07:49 rangi reads 07:49 rangi ie 99% of the OPAC usage is rads 07:48 rangi you use the instance that hits the slave db 07:48 kivilahtio rangi: We are planning to have a library consortium to service 3 municipalities 07:48 rangi for the opac, when you aren't logged in 07:48 rangi you can do tricks like 07:48 kivilahtio rangi: I mean if I understand the benefit of it 07:48 rangi i would run 2 07:48 kivilahtio rangi: well we are planning to run one instance 07:47 rangi they can use the same db, or different ones 07:47 rangi ie, with the debian packages it simple to run up as many koha instances as you like 07:47 kivilahtio rangi: yeah, I was rather dismayed when I realized that those were the primary use cases in the Evergreen community 07:46 rangi and run the reports against the slave db 07:46 kivilahtio rangi: also we had some issues about library hierarchy, like we have libraries with different departments. Main library has musics-, serials, childrens- and adult departments under the main branch 07:46 rangi you can also do tricks like use mysql replication 07:45 kivilahtio rangi: we need to re-evaluate those es well :) 07:45 rangi if you have independentbranches the permissions too 07:45 rangi (the fine, circ ones anyone) 07:45 rangi you can do that with Koha 07:43 rangi dcook: just do do some interpretive dance 07:43 kivilahtio not that having a varied parametrizations makes any sense, not the least for our patrons 07:42 kivilahtio I think the main point with Evergreen for us is the proven performance and ability to set very specific circulation, permission, fine settings for each library 07:41 dcook [off] I think I might be the worst presenter of all time. I feel slightly bad for the people having to watch my presentation.:p 07:41 kivilahtio what was one thing that pushed us to Evergreen was performance. Back then Koha was under some bad rap about managing large installations, especially regarding serials 07:40 rangi http://git.koha-community.org/stats/koha-master/activity.html <-- we cover every hour of the day 07:39 * dcook doesn't remember consenting to being filmed :p 07:39 kivilahtio wow, I like the global koha-community -aspect :) 07:38 rangi yep, they are still closer to your time than i am :) 07:38 kivilahtio timezone is not that much of an issue for us, we have been ok with the Evergreen community time-zone-wise 07:38 rangi he also has a really good understanding of what koha can and cant do 07:37 kivilahtio well magnus has always been a charmer :) 07:37 rangi same timezone makes things a lot easier 07:37 kivilahtio hm 07:36 rangi id vote for magnus 07:36 rangi watching a bunch of these will probably give you a really good feel 07:36 kivilahtio rangi: Any idea who could host a webinar for us. We have a pretty solid understanding of what requirements we have for a ILS and would like to talk with someone or someones who have a deep understanding of Koha both techincally and from the librarians perspective. 07:36 rangi however http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon13_Program 07:35 rangi but the hackfest would be the best place to get a real feel for it 07:34 kivilahtio I think it was Eg 2013 in Vancouver not 2014 07:34 rangi kivilahtio: the sessions are being filmed 07:34 kivilahtio but yeah I noticed that 07:34 kivilahtio We just were in Vancouver for the Eg 2014 :) 07:34 rangi awesome thanks paul_p 07:34 paul_p hiya rangi. Will send you my history presentation today, with some changes I'd like to do, and/or, some comments on some slides, TBD 07:33 kivilahtio hi rangi! 07:33 rangi hiya paul_p 07:28 dcook ^^ 07:28 rangi there is of course kohacon13 07:28 paul_p bonjour #koha 07:27 rangi kivilahtio: its for eifl-floss so not really aimed at you 07:25 dcook So either, neither, whatever fits with the rest of the sql query 07:25 dcook salut paul_p 07:25 dcook It lets you refer to the table by the letter rather than the column name 07:24 dcook SE: That letter is just an alias. 07:20 kivilahtio magnuse: sure, I think the webinar shouldnt be too long, like 4h 07:20 SE Can anyone tell me what is aqorders o and aqorders a? I m not a programmer but I need to write KOHA SQL report. I don't know which one to put 07:20 magnuse have fun! 07:20 magnuse [off] magnus@libriotech.no 07:19 magnuse kivilahtio: could you send me an email describing what you need? i can see if i can fit it in 07:19 kivilahtio magnuse: and I mean a lot of questions, ranging from all ILL modules to localization data migratin, development 07:19 magnuse but i'm sorry i have to run 07:19 dcook kivilahtio: I think rangi is giving a webinar for an organization later this month 07:19 magnuse kivilahtio: that could work 07:19 magnuse they do 07:18 dcook Maybe BibLibre. I assume they offer services in English and French. 07:18 kivilahtio magnuse: I think we could have a webinar? And we ask many manby questions from you 07:18 dcook I think the software.coop in the UK might be another good option 07:18 magnuse yeah 07:18 dcook kivilahtio: You'd probably be best off contacting many vendors 07:18 kivilahtio magnuse: If we find Koha to be superior to Evergreen, we can still change our direction 07:17 magnuse kivilahtio: sounds interesting! but time is a problem, i'm afraid 07:17 kivilahtio magnuse: Primarily we need our requirement re-evalued, and fast 07:17 magnuse dcook: yeah, i look at schema.k-c.org 07:17 kivilahtio magnuse: programmer training 07:16 kivilahtio magnuse: staff training 07:16 kivilahtio magnuse: requirements analysis 07:16 magnuse kivilahtio: what would you need me for? 07:14 kivilahtio well thanks for chatting 07:14 kivilahtio yup 07:13 dcook Right now doesn't count for me since I should be going home 07:13 dcook More than enough work to keep us busy until oblivion 07:13 dcook kivilahtio: So true 07:13 dcook magnuse: Have you checked the kohastructure.sql? Maybe there are some comments there 07:13 kivilahtio ILS people seem to have their schedules full 07:12 kivilahtio magnuse: I was afraid of that 07:12 magnuse :-) 07:12 dcook O_o 07:12 kivilahtio hyvää päivää Magnus 07:12 kivilahtio hyvää päviää Magnus 07:12 magnuse this week is filled to bursting and beyond 07:12 kivilahtio hyvää päiää Magnus 07:12 kivilahtio magnuse: Is your schedule full? 07:12 magnuse hyyve kivilahtio (or something similar) 07:11 kivilahtio yeah, we had a chat with magnuse back then 07:11 magnuse or the reserveconstraints table? 07:11 dcook Mmm...not off the top of my head, magnuse 07:11 dcook kivilahtio: magnuse is probably the nearest to you geographically. Perhaps he's a good person to ask. 07:10 magnuse anyone know what reserves.constrainttype does? 07:10 kivilahtio also we have a requirements specification that needs to be evalued by a koha professional 07:10 * magnuse grumbles 07:10 * dcook is wondering why he's still at work 07:10 dcook In transit? ;) 07:10 kivilahtio kia ora magnuse 07:10 magnuse hm, where's kf when you need her... ;-) 07:09 kivilahtio still accesssing the same database 07:09 dcook hey ya magnuse 07:09 magnuse kia ora #koha 07:09 kivilahtio tho Eg has the benfit of running for ex. the Reporting on a separate machine 07:09 dcook To be honest, I work with Koha every day, and I'm not even up to speed with where 3.12 is at 07:09 kivilahtio the method for scaling is the same with Koha as Evergreen 07:08 dcook <--- librarian turned developer rather than straight up CS/IT person 07:08 dcook Mmm, fair enough 07:08 kivilahtio so presonally I don't see the scaling benefit 07:08 kivilahtio like with Koha 07:08 kivilahtio and it scaled with normal db replication techniques 07:08 kivilahtio database is the bottle neck 07:08 kivilahtio dcook: not true IMHO 07:08 kivilahtio even if it was clear that it was technically more difficult 07:07 * dcook has yet to install it 07:07 dcook Yeah, I hear it scales well 07:07 kivilahtio we chose Eg because it had better merits in large Consortias 07:07 dcook Most evaluations I've heard, even back then, tended to favour Koha 07:07 dcook Intriguing 07:07 kivilahtio 50/50 Eg vs Koha 07:07 kivilahtio and our evaluation was a tie 07:07 dcook Yeah, that was quite a long time ago 07:07 kivilahtio 3.2 07:07 kivilahtio 3.4 07:07 kivilahtio we are around 6 months from going live, with some system 07:07 dcook I imagine you evaluated 3.8? Maybe even 3.6? 07:06 kivilahtio actualyl I was hoping for someone to help us get up to speed 07:06 dcook Accessing the intranet from another machine? 07:06 dcook 3.14 is coming out in November I think.. 07:06 kivilahtio tho accessing the intranet from another machine seems hard ;) 07:06 dcook Releases are 6 months apart so that would've been... 07:06 kivilahtio atleast installing was easy 07:06 dcook It would've been drastically different I imagine 07:05 * dcook ponders 07:05 dcook 18 months ago.. 07:05 kivilahtio this makes me wonder if the Koha we investigated 18 months ago is the same Koha as 3.12 07:05 dcook True true 07:05 dcook Mmm 07:05 kivilahtio :D 07:05 kivilahtio and in 18 months Koha has advnaced a lot 07:05 kivilahtio we have been working 36 man months on Evergreen and our progress is really slow 07:05 dcook Our stance? 07:04 dcook There are a lot of features ;) 07:04 kivilahtio i sent an email to the mailing list about our need to re-evaluate our stance on Evergreen 07:04 dcook Yep 07:04 kivilahtio its huge 07:04 dcook I suppose the best broad overview would be the manual 07:04 kivilahtio i just installed 3.12 07:04 wahanui really is off now 07:04 kivilahtio really? 07:04 dcook 3.4? Time for an upgrade! 07:03 wahanui kivilahtio is running 3.4 07:03 dcook Hey kivilahtio 06:56 kivilahtio Good morning Koha! Is there any place where I could take a broad overview about Koha features? 06:51 alex_a salut dcook 06:50 dcook salut alex_a 06:45 alex_a bonjour 06:42 cait bbl 06:41 cait hi reiveune :) 06:40 reiveune salut dcook rangi cait 06:39 dcook hey ya reiveune 06:38 reiveune hello 06:37 dcook Hmm, not too bad.. 06:37 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 24.0°C (4:00 PM EST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 18%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Pressure: 29.77 in 1008 hPa (Steady). 06:37 dcook @wunder sydney, australia 06:36 huginn` cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 10.3°C (8:35 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady). 06:36 cait @wunder Konstanz 06:35 dcook Mmm. Not sure. I've never looked at unapi. 06:32 cait if it does it at all? 06:32 cait how does the unapi code do it? 06:32 cait hm 06:29 dcook Rather than "JOUR" or "CHAP" 06:29 dcook Or rather "BOOK" 06:28 dcook As it exports everything with a leader position 6 "a" as "Book" 06:28 dcook I was just thinking in regards to the RIS export 06:27 dcook Just make the choice at the local level 06:27 dcook I suppose that's one way to do it, eh? 06:27 dcook Hmm 06:27 cait . 06:27 cait well we are going to use it like serial/monographic 06:27 dcook Yeah... 06:27 cait oh meh. 06:26 dcook "Example of a serial component part with corresponding host item is a regularly appearing column or feature in a periodical." 06:26 dcook "Examples of monographic component parts with corresponding host items include an article in a single issue of a periodical, a chapter in a book, a band on a phonodisc, and a map on a single sheet that contains several maps." 06:26 dcook Nopes 06:26 cait and article is serial i'd think 06:26 cait chapter is monographic component part 06:26 dcook Which would both be a monographic component part 06:26 cait it does 06:26 dcook Yeah, but that doesn't differentiate between an article and a book chapter 06:26 cait ... in the LDR I think 06:26 cait serial component part and monographic component part 06:25 cait dcook: there are things for articles 06:23 dcook hey cait :) 06:23 cait hi dcook 06:21 dcook All the browser tabs! 05:35 cait morning eythian :) 05:35 eythian hi cait 05:34 cait good morning #koha 04:49 dcook Autobiography v. Individual biography v. collective biography... 04:48 dcook But of course. Distinguish a filmography from a bibliography, but not a book from an article. 04:48 dcook Gotta love how things like "article" or "chapter" don't wind up in MARC, but the 008 will tell you if the item is a "Surveys of literature in a subject area" 04:45 * mtompset waves bye to dcook mtj_/mtj etc. 04:45 mtompset Have a great day, #koha. 04:41 dcook Kohacon in a month! 04:25 dcook Double encoding illuminated and problem bandaided for now. Any rewrites to that aren't happening today. 04:25 * dcook shrug 04:25 dcook I suppose they're using the query string rather than the form data so that they don't have to guess what's coming through.. 04:23 mtj_ yeah, makes sense to me too 04:11 dcook Hence double encoded 04:11 dcook Of course HTML forms would automatically be urlencoded... 04:11 dcook Now that I think about it...this was all dreadfully obvious :p 04:03 dcook Yeah, it's defo the browser that is double encoding it.. 03:57 dcook Maybe 03:57 dcook That would make sense.. 03:57 dcook I guess %20 might just be %2520 unencoded 03:56 dcook It's...url_param() that prints out %20.. 03:56 dcook query_string() does print out %2520 03:56 dcook Wait.. 03:52 dcook "You can also retrieve the unprocessed query string with query_string():" That doesn't seem to be the case though as that prints out %20 as well.. 03:51 dcook I figure it should use param() instead, but I'm curious as to why it's double encoding in any case.. 03:50 dcook This code is using the URL query string rather than the param() values though.. 03:50 dcook Which is right.. 03:50 dcook While the data retrieved using param() says %20 03:50 dcook The URL says %2520 (double encoded space) 03:49 dcook True that... 03:49 dcook "If you try to mix a URL query string with a form submitted with the GET method, the results will not be what you expect." 03:46 dcook I think what I'm reading might be a shortcut.. 03:46 dcook Mmm, I don't know if anything does do something similar 03:45 mtj_ dcook, also look a some Koha code that does something similar to yours 03:36 mtj_ ...often around the cumbersomeness of an api, that could be improved 03:35 mtj_ i've found that writing tests can be very revealing about your code 03:29 * dcook reads some Perl docs 03:26 dcook As for the double encoding...I think maybe the browser is doing the double encoding... 03:25 rangi it is a much better way of doing it 03:25 rangi yep 03:24 dcook That said, I'm sure the code could be better 03:24 dcook When I was writing the unit test for the OAI-PMH harvester, I noticed that X would be good and Y should be better, so I fixed the code and made it so that the test would validate in a meaningful way 03:24 dcook I like the idea of writing tests before writing code though, or writing tests while writing the code 03:22 dcook mtj_, it seems to me that data that is hex encoded is encoded again when passed as form data 03:21 dcook Well, aside from the double encoding 03:21 dcook In this case...I know what it's doing and it isn't doing it very well :p 03:21 dcook Good call, rangi 03:19 rangi heya mtj_ 03:19 mtj_ heya rangi :) 03:18 mtj_ (thats how i'd approach it) 03:18 mtj_ dcook, try and add warns on the string, at various stages - see if you can spot the glitchy transform 03:18 rangi :) 03:18 wahanui rewrite is http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2012/07/31/yes-you-should-rewrite-it-no-not-like-that/ 03:18 rangi rewrite? 03:17 wahanui hmmm... rewrite is different 03:17 rangi rewrite? 03:15 dcook But aside from re-writing it... 03:15 dcook Oh, I think it's all pretty naughty in this case :p 03:14 mtj_ yeah, it can be difficult to work out where the naughty code is 03:12 dcook But then that just reveals more bugs with this particular code... 03:12 dcook Yeah, I'm not sure where the double encoding is happening exactly, although I could try to unencode the data at one part so the double encoding doesn't happen 03:11 mtj_ dcook, i remember the 1st few times i bumped into double-encoding bugs… it was tricky :/ 02:58 dcook Admittedly, it's for a local customization so not really a big issue.. 02:57 dcook Trying to figure out why Koha is double-encoding some URLs... 02:54 dcook Mmm, it might just explode again though 02:51 mtompset As long as you picked up all the pieces, no problem. ;) 02:51 dcook Oh wait, now I remember. Hmm, I'll just pretend to block it out. 02:51 * dcook doesn't remember why his brain was exploding yesterday. 02:50 dcook Mmm, no doubt, eh? 02:50 mtompset YAY for reading code, and the patience to "*tweak* refresh *look at logs* *tweak* refresh *look at logs* *repeat many many times*" 02:50 wahanui mtompset is probably disliking finding bugs while testing. 02:50 dcook hey mtompset 02:49 mtompset My brain's less exploded now, dcook. Solved part of my problems today. :) 02:49 mtompset Greetings, dcook. 02:41 mtompset Greetings, #koha. 00:08 jcamins If I say so myself. Which I find I must. 00:04 jcamins The bruschetta was inspired.