Time Nick Message
23:56 jcamins (if anyone else has a favorite recipe, I'd use that, too, I just think wizzyrea has made fast, foolproof stovetop custard before)
23:56 jcamins wizzyrea: by "does anyone" I mean, "does wizzyrea?" :)
23:55 jcamins Shari wants custard. Does anyone have any fast, foolproof stove-top custard recipes they recommend?
23:49 mtj_ i should hopefully be able to do some QA stuff today, if anyone has suggestions...
23:46 * mtj_ waves to #koha
23:46 mtj_ hi all
23:38 tcohen is there one for life of brian?
23:36 jcamins Wow. That trailer was great.
23:34 tcohen I fixed the namespace name as u suggested
23:32 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10733 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Memcached on package installs
23:32 tcohen mtompset: i've just attached a new, squashed version of my patches for bug 10733
23:11 * dcook shrugs
23:11 dcook But it doesn't show that edition when you click through from the braille facet...
23:11 dcook Aha...there is a braille version
23:09 * dcook looks around for the tv cameras
23:09 dcook Just realized the title of that "braille" book was "How to lie with statistics"
23:08 jcamins Heh.
23:08 dcook Oh well. It's not Koha. I don't really care atm.
23:05 dcook O_o
23:05 dcook Book (14) Braille (26)
23:05 wizzyrea ah that is hilarious eythian
23:05 dcook Or rather, are retrieved by clicking the Braille subfacet
23:05 dcook Braille is a subfacet of Book...but other items than just books have the Braille subfacet...
23:04 dcook Actually, this catalogue is quite weird..
23:03 dcook hehe
23:03 jcamins dcook: that's kind of ironic.
23:03 dcook So I click on a "Braille" facet and the first book that comes up is illustrated...
23:02 eythian http://youtu.be/hKNDml12Big
22:46 wizzyrea sh
22:45 eythian Geocentric, much? :)
22:44 wizzyrea Thanks Gravity!
22:44 * wizzyrea just feels lucky not to be flung out into space.
22:43 wizzyrea I suppose you do go around the *axis* of the earth every 24 hours >.>
22:43 wizzyrea no talky.
22:43 wizzyrea sh.
22:43 wizzyrea oh wait lol.
22:42 wizzyrea that's the sun dear.
22:33 eythian I go around it at least once every 24 hours.
22:32 rambutan he seems to be a world traveler
22:29 wizzyrea oh he's so much more than that. :P
22:25 wahanui eythian is probably an expert bot trainer
22:25 rambutan hey eythian
22:24 eythian hi
22:18 rambutan check
22:18 rambutan That's one of the things we'll chekc
22:18 rambutan Kaspersky
22:18 jcamins I can't explain exactly why anti-virus would cause an issue, but my gut instinct is that I may have overlooked more aggressive anti-virus systems.
22:17 jcamins Do you have any anti-virus?
22:16 rambutan BTW, we've confirmed the transactions load fine on linux (Mint), tomorrow I'm going to work more w/ J on the windows side, but now I'm less concerned about it
22:16 rambutan yea 3.10.03
22:14 jcamins You're still on 3.10.something, yes?
22:14 jcamins rambutan: excellent.
22:13 rambutan jcamins: yea, I like that!
21:46 jcamins I tried a bunch of variations on "sorry, you can't log out because you're offline" dialogs, but they felt counterintuitive because why am I looking at a logout button if logging out isn't permitted?
21:45 jcamins rambutan: how about this for the logout issue: http://screencast.com/t/bFBpR0EL7Z
21:24 jcamins I just checked.
21:24 jcamins That _is_ the latest.
21:23 jcamins That should be pretty recent, though possibly not the latest.
21:21 jcamins 23.
21:19 jcamins I shall check the version of FF.
21:19 jcamins And Microsoft Security Essentials.
21:19 jcamins Yup.
21:19 rambutan did you test using win 7?
21:19 jcamins I'm wondering if some sort of "internet protection thing" might clear out the web browser to "protect" you.
21:18 rambutan hummm, wouldn't have thought that would nuke records
21:17 jcamins That shouldn't make a difference, as I made it a point of testing under Windows, but if you have anti-virus, that may do things to it.
21:17 rambutan yea
21:14 jcamins Was it Windows before?
21:13 rambutan We rebooted into linux, installed newest FF, and are now downloading records
21:13 jcamins Okay.
21:13 rambutan We're working on plan c ATM
21:12 jcamins rambutan: has it restarted?
20:18 rambutan but yes, we were logged in when attempting to sync
20:18 rambutan well, standby. We decided to do a reboot and now we have to wait for MS to install 5 updates. <bad bad words invoked here>
20:16 jcamins If you go to the home page of your staff client, are you logged in?
20:16 jcamins I suspect you may, but I have a thought about what the problem is.
20:15 rambutan that's what I thought too, but it doesn't work this time. Maybe we need the new set of files...
20:13 jcamins Last time all we had to do was click that button, and then go to "pending offline circulation actions."
20:12 rambutan yea, and it says no transactions found, just like before
20:11 jcamins And you tried clicking the "Upload transactions" button even though it says "No transactions to upload"?
20:11 rambutan no
20:11 jcamins Do you have some sort of privacy plugin that wipes the browser's settings?
20:10 rambutan closing the browser and restarting the computer nukes them
20:10 rambutan now having said all that, we did this testing again and can't find the transactions to sync "not found". What did we do before to get them back?
20:09 jcamins I guess I could also just hide the logout button.
20:09 rambutan or something that simply says: "there is no need to logout in the offline module, simply close the browser?????) .... not sure
20:08 jcamins So maybe the best option would be something that checks if you're online, and if you're not says "sorry, you cannot log out while offline"?
20:07 rambutan and going to the next stop, where they want to "logon" again, lather, rinse, repeat
20:07 jcamins I see.
20:07 jcamins Ohhh.
20:07 rambutan when you complete transactions at one stop/location, the users aren't sure what to do, instinctively they want to "logout" before shutting down the computer...
20:06 rambutan jcamins: no, thinking of bookmobile stops...
20:06 jcamins cait: that works.
20:06 cait i called it: What we are working on right now...
20:06 jcamins That's the disadvantage with the fixed times.
20:06 jcamins That's okay.
20:05 quoc_uy i was out 3 hour, can't get meeting on 18.00
20:05 quoc_uy i'm fine
20:05 jcamins cait: "Who is working on what"?
20:04 jcamins Not bad. How about you?
20:04 quoc_uy hi jcamins, how are u?
20:04 jcamins What about a message "Are you sure you want to log out? Once you log out, you will not be able to log in again until you have a connection to your server."
20:03 cait hm how woud you name a section on the wiki page for 'who is working on what right now'?
20:03 quoc_uy So i missed irc-meeting one more time...
20:03 jcamins Hmm.
20:02 jcamins Of course, the problem is if there's an offline log off feature, there's no way to log back on if you realize you didn't mean to.
20:02 jcamins It didn't occur to me because I am used to the "dead circ desk connection" situation, where logging off is unnecessary.
20:01 jcamins That's a good point.
20:01 rambutan wonder if there should be (or is?) some way to indicate that?
20:01 jcamins Hmmm.
20:01 rambutan there's just the usual "log out" but that's if you are connected to koha live
20:00 rambutan for the offline module, there's nothing intuitive to indicate to users to log out
20:00 * jcamins waves.
19:59 rambutan ping jcamins
19:50 * cait starts QA Sprint Day by looking at 7180
19:48 cait was just reading there this minute :)
19:48 bag darn thanks cait figured something like that
19:47 bag ah failed to watch twitter
19:47 cait bag: I think he is travelling - judging from twitter
19:26 Jesse :)
19:26 druthb usually.
19:26 Jesse always blaming someone arent you ? :P
19:25 Jesse Hiya druthb
19:25 * druthb blames Jesse.
19:19 huginn` bag: The operation succeeded.
19:19 bag @later tell rangi - hey man shoot me a ping when you get in today :) Thanks
19:12 clint_ quit
19:01 cait :)
19:01 meliss thanks, cait
19:00 cait meliss: just noted your name in the meeting logs - welcome :)
18:58 cait karma! :)
18:58 druthb cait++
18:57 * thd`` tries to recover from multiple identities.
18:56 tcohen cait++
18:56 rhcl cait++
18:56 drojf cait++
18:56 huginn` Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/general_irc_meeting.2013-09-11-18.04.log.html
18:56 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/general_irc_meeting.2013-09-11-18.04.txt
18:56 huginn` Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/general_irc_meeting.2013-09-11-18.04.html
18:56 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Sep 11 18:56:19 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
18:56 cait #endmeeting
18:56 gmcharlt cait++
18:56 talljoy cait++
18:56 davidnind cait++
18:56 drojf sorry, was in the kitchen :)
18:56 mtompset cait++ # thanks for chairing the meeting.
18:56 Brooke thanks for chairing. *sucker* ;)
18:56 cait go testing patches!
18:56 bgkriegel cait++
18:56 cait thank you all for attending :)
18:55 cait #info next meeting will be on 9th October, 10 UTC
18:55 mtompset +1 October 9.
18:55 cait ok
18:55 cait sounds about right
18:55 davidnind 10:00 UTC
18:54 cait i asked drojf - didn't work :)
18:54 gmcharlt +1 10/9
18:54 talljoy +1
18:54 mtompset That works without interfering with the travelling of those going to KohaCon.
18:54 davidnind +1 9 October
18:54 oleonard Where are we in the time rotation? What's next?
18:54 thd`` What hour is next?
18:54 cait +1
18:54 tcohen +1 # 9 Oct
18:54 thd`` +1
18:54 oleonard Wed. 9 October?
18:54 cait oh sory, was looking at the wrong month
18:53 oleonard October 12 is a Saturday
18:53 tcohen why not just after kohacon14 voting end?
18:53 cait drojf: which time is next?
18:53 cait what about... october 12th?
18:53 cait and deadlines
18:52 cait and we are getting closer and closer to release
18:52 cait Brooke: not everyone is going there - so i think having one before wouldn't hurt
18:52 thd`` Do we want to set a time after the votes on KohaCon14 have been tallied?
18:52 cait #topic Set time for next meeting
18:52 cait roughly in a month... before kohacon?
18:52 Brooke isn't next meeting essentially KohaCon?
18:51 cait i think we can move on and decide a time and date for the next :)
18:51 mtompset Also back under KohaCon related issues, my Filipino colleague is dreaming of how to make a 2015 proposal work. But no promises. :)
18:51 Brooke 0/
18:51 cait ok, as there are actually no actions left from last meeting it seems
18:51 cait ;)
18:51 cait #action drojf will set up a limesurvey
18:51 cait hm missed to delete the questionmark
18:50 cait #agreed the vote for kohacon14 will be open from 23september to 6 october?
18:49 bag oh darn she's out
18:49 cait drojf++
18:49 cait cool
18:49 drojf i can do a limesurvey i guess
18:49 bag nengard can you?
18:49 tajoli +1
18:49 cait have we figured out who will set up the vote?
18:49 davidnind +1
18:49 drojf that would be two weeks and cover the beginning of october part, but would not delay things unnecessarily
18:49 cait +1
18:49 bgkriegel +1
18:49 mtompset +1
18:48 tcohen +1
18:48 cait sounds ok to me
18:48 drojf what about voting from 23september to 6 october?
18:48 phred_ Sorry for delay--just found e-mail from Nancy--need 125 rooms booked, didn't say how many had been (as of 28 August)
18:48 cait maybe 2
18:47 drojf how long did we do the last times? open polls for a week or something?
18:47 drojf because next meeting will be after that
18:46 drojf we said beginning of october. sow e should probably fix that now
18:46 cait drojf: have we talked about that yet?
18:46 tcohen np
18:46 cait tcohen: sorry, was too fast
18:46 tcohen when will it happen?
18:45 cait #topic Actions from previous meeting
18:45 wahanui voting is http://ci.openstack.org/meetbot.html
18:45 tcohen voting?
18:45 cait ok, next topic
18:45 cait true :)
18:45 drojf one would have been easy :)
18:45 cait drojf: 2 will be easy for voting i think?
18:45 drojf i think that's about it
18:44 drojf and i do not expect another one coming up in the next three days, but who knows
18:44 drojf argentina and nigeria
18:44 drojf we have two proposals
18:44 drojf i set 18 UTC as the time, so there is one
18:44 drojf as you have probably seen, i have sent out another mail. proposals close 15 september
18:43 cait #topic KohaCon14
18:43 drojf yup
18:43 cait i thnk we can move on?
18:42 thd drogf: The host goal is to break even on expenses. If anything goes wrong, then they loose.
18:42 drojf iw as a little confused by the calculation of every registration equals a room booked
18:42 cait or look for more sponsors
18:42 drojf ok
18:41 oleonard We don't have a mechanism set up to charge attendees
18:41 oleonard As the hosts I think they would have to pay drojf
18:41 cait #link http://koha-community.org/koha-community-newsletter-august-2013/#kohacon13
18:41 drojf and by they you mean you?
18:41 phred_ ISTR it was 125, with about 100 registered.
18:40 cait that's what i understood
18:40 cait I think they have to pay for the meeting rooms then
18:40 thd How many more reservations are needed?
18:40 drojf i don't think it is mandatory to sleep in that hotel, is it? so in theory, is it possible that there won't be a conference location if not enough people get rooms?
18:40 cait i think the email had it
18:40 thd The note does not give a reminder of the required number for meeting the hotel conditions.
18:39 wahanui drojf is from Germany and developing Koha on a raspberry pi!
18:39 cait yes drojf?
18:39 cait so if you are guilty of going to KohaCon but not having done your bookings yet...
18:39 wahanui question is "What is the meaning of life, the universe and everything?"
18:39 drojf question
18:39 drojf hm
18:39 cait it looks like we need more people reserving rooms at the hotel
18:39 cait #info news from nancy were sent to the mailinglist and are also noted on the agenda
18:38 cait #topic KohaCon2013
18:37 cait oleonard: ok
18:37 cait will try again soon, but would be nice if someone beat me to it
18:37 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2720 enhancement, P3, ---, kyle, Signed Off , Overdues which debar automatically should undebar automatically when returned
18:37 oleonard cait, we contributed money towards Bug 2720, so we're anxious to see that pass
18:37 tcohen i'll be around to help on them if needed
18:36 cait tcohen: have been trying, but my vm ... was annoying
18:36 gmcharlt tajoli++
18:36 tcohen packages patches
18:36 gmcharlt drojf++
18:36 cait ok, i see that nancy has left a note on the wiki
18:36 gmcharlt cait++
18:36 cait drojf: excellent priority :)
18:36 drojf :P
18:36 drojf good qa
18:35 cait your chance ;)
18:35 cait is there something people would like to see given top priority in QA?
18:35 cait any more questions and notes about this topic?
18:35 tajoli That all folk
18:35 tcohen cineca++
18:35 cait cineca++
18:35 tajoli So if tomorrow you have a simple 'sign off', write me and I send it to her
18:34 tajoli but not now
18:34 tajoli I think that in some month she could stard to write unit test also
18:33 tajoli so, if you receive an email from her, answer as longer as you can
18:32 tajoli she worked heavly on waterfall metodology
18:32 cait or just note on the bug :)
18:32 cait maybe she can note that - or she can drop on irc and ask if there is something she is not sure about
18:31 tajoli She stritly follow the plan inside
18:31 cait or maybe i confuse her
18:31 tajoli But she doesn't have a big knowldge of Koha
18:31 cait tajoli: I think I have seen her name on some patches already?
18:30 tajoli She speak Italian and English
18:30 mtompset oleonard has the helicopter to transport the person. ;)
18:30 tajoli Her name is 'Paola Rossi' <paola.rossi@cineca.it>
18:30 drojf if there is no language barrier
18:29 cait i was going to suggest that too :)
18:29 drojf tajoli: you should probably send the person here
18:29 cait tajoli: sounds good
18:29 tajoli this person is working only on bugs in 'Need Sign Off' to test them
18:28 tcohen heh
18:28 * oleonard dispatches the QA team to Kiribati in a black helicopter
18:28 drojf tajoli++
18:28 cait #info if you care about a feature, don't hesitate to give it another good testing and sign off
18:28 tajoli As CINECA we try to sponsor an our internal IT as 'sign offer'
18:27 cait I think it actually might have started already in kiribati or so?
18:27 tajoli I have an annucement about sign off
18:27 cait it's something new we try out, we will have to see how it goes I think
18:26 mtompset But will it be coordinated after GBSD's in the future?
18:26 cait please feel free to test test test everything you can get your hands on :)
18:26 cait so it's not a GBSD - but with 169 bugs in needs signoff... and 51 of that bugs...
18:25 cait there are some pretty big patches in the qa queue right now that take a lot of time testing
18:25 cait best with some notes what you looked at
18:24 cait or third.. fourth...
18:24 cait and for the big features you want to see moved through qa a second sign off would make help
18:24 tcohen sounds great, can we non-QA people help?
18:24 cait but right now I think the needs sign off queue needs some work too...
18:24 cait mtj++ has added a wiki page for it and i hope that lots of QA will be done
18:24 cait #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/2013-09-12_QA_Sprint_day
18:23 cait and one of the ideas that came up was a QA sprint day
18:23 cait we had a qa team meeting and discussed some ideas on how to get things moving and flowing a bit better
18:23 cait #topic QA sprint day
18:23 tajoli In fact yes, is the same question
18:23 cait if there are no more questions we can move on?
18:22 mtompset ^verses^versus^
18:22 gmcharlt no, looks like tajoli had asked the same question you had asked, cait :)
18:22 mtompset frozen out, verses slushing in. :)
18:22 cait then I missed it :)
18:22 gmcharlt I did answer the question about the distinction between slush and freeze, if that's what you're referring to
18:22 tcohen tajoli: any feature that is passed-qa by feature slush is elegible for 3.14, otherwise it isnt.
18:21 gmcharlt ah, no, missed it
18:21 cait gmcharlt: have you seen tajoli's question?
18:20 bag ok cool thanks galen
18:20 cait i think it's doable
18:20 gmcharlt but be assured, it /will/ be in 3.14
18:20 bag ok subtract just from my statement cait :)
18:20 gmcharlt also, the current patch series uses an otion that the DBIC maintainer specifically recommends against
18:20 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
18:20 cait just... :)
18:20 gmcharlt the current patch series needs some cleanup, and there are some FK to be added
18:20 bag is it just getting the DB foriegn keys worked out...
18:19 bag gmcharlt: what's the road block for DBIx::Class currently?
18:19 gmcharlt which is a sine qua non from my POV
18:19 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8190 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Add a logging module to Koha
18:19 gmcharlt essentially, the idea in the patch series for bug 8190, but a version that supports syslog
18:19 gmcharlt thd: system events, debug info
18:18 tajoli The differce beetwenn slush and freeze ?
18:18 cait just a thank you for your work gmcharlt++
18:18 thd What is intended to be logged for a logging feature?
18:17 gmcharlt any questions for me?
18:17 * thd was thinking of other domains in which slush is used.
18:17 gmcharlt instaed, I'll do so shortly after feature freeze
18:17 gmcharlt also, another announcement -- I did not, of course, actually do a tarball of a pre-pre-alpha
18:17 thd OK
18:16 gmcharlt a partial freeze, of course
18:16 thd Why does slush have the name slush?
18:16 gmcharlt new features that have /not/ hit passed QA by feature slush are more liable to be left for the next release; if you want something that misses slush to make it in, you'll need to advocate for it
18:16 cait thx :)
18:15 gmcharlt cait: feature slush -- any new features that have hit passed QA by that date will be included in 3.14, assuming they don't raise signfiicant QA concerns on my part
18:15 tcohen gmcharlt++
18:15 cait gmcharlt++
18:14 gmcharlt #info RM emphasis for this release is reinforcing the QA process -- patches must have sufficient review to be accepted, and I'm heavily pushing for unit tests
18:14 cait gmcharlt: can you define feature slush a little? want to prevent any misunderstandings if possible :)
18:13 gmcharlt #info planning a big push, well, push next week after the QA sprint tomorroow
18:13 gmcharlt #info Architectural changes that are still on the table for inclusion in 3.14 are DBIx::Class and some sort of logging module
18:13 gmcharlt #info Feature freeze remains at 2013-10-03
18:12 gmcharlt #info Feature slush remains at 2012-09-25
18:12 gmcharlt OK
18:12 cait #topic Update on 3.14
18:12 cait thx tcohen - tcohen++ :)
18:12 tcohen and that's it :-D
18:11 tcohen trying to catch up with master
18:11 cait sounds good to me
18:11 tcohen (dom-as-default would be a 3.14 feature)
18:11 tcohen but leaving grs1 as default
18:11 tcohen i plan to cherry-pick dom indexing support for packages
18:11 talljoy #info Joy Nelson ByWater Solutions
18:10 tcohen 3.12 is getting mature, no big bugs arise
18:10 cait tcohen: the stage is yours :)
18:10 cait #topic Update on 3.12
18:10 cait iwill move to 3.12 then?
18:10 cait thx for your work :)
18:09 cait bgkriegel++
18:09 bgkriegel but i will catch up
18:09 bgkriegel all is well, a little behind
18:09 cait #topic Update on 3.10
18:09 bgkriegel yes :)
18:09 clint_ #info clintD, Anact, NZ
18:08 cait :)
18:08 wahanui bgkriegel is on a signoff spree
18:08 cait bgkriegel?
18:08 cait ok, is chrish around?
18:08 gmcharlt "... in other news, the sky is blue today"
18:08 NateC I like space
18:08 drnoe #info David Noe, ByWater Solutions
18:07 cait no announcements? :)
18:07 cait *waits*
18:07 cait #topic Announcements
18:07 tcohen yeap
18:06 cait all done?
18:06 bag #info Brendan Gallagher ByWater
18:06 cait maybe that should have been #link :)
18:06 NateC Nate Curulla: Bywater Solutions
18:06 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
18:06 tajoli #info Zeno Tajoli, CINECA, Italy
18:05 mtompset tajoli: You forgot the #info.
18:05 cait #info Agenda for today's meeting: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_11th_September_2013
18:05 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
18:05 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin, Germany
18:05 tajoli Zeno Tajoli, CINECA, Italy
18:05 phred_ #info Fred King, Washington Hospital Center
18:05 jwagner #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS
18:05 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett
18:05 bgkriegel #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel, Cordoba, Argentina
18:05 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba
18:05 meliss #info Melissa Lefebvre, ByWater Solutions
18:05 druthb #info D Ruth Bavousett
18:05 khall #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions
18:05 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand
18:05 * thd is typing in lower case and yet the caps lock key is down. What causes that?
18:05 NateC #info
18:05 mduncan #info Margo Duncan, University of Texas at Tyler
18:05 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany
18:05 nengard #info Nicole Engard, ByWater Solutions
18:05 cait please introduce yourself using #info
18:05 gmcharlt #info Galen Charlton, Equinox Software, 3.14 RM
18:04 rhcl #info rhcl = Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library
18:04 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
18:04 cait #topic Introductions
18:04 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting'
18:04 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
18:04 huginn` Meeting started Wed Sep 11 18:04:41 2013 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:04 cait #startmeeting General IRC Meeting
18:04 thd I will take a turn one day but my keyboard is barely working at present.
18:04 drojf yay cait
18:04 cait i can try - with some help getting the actions and infos in place
18:03 drojf that's a lot of volunteers
18:03 gmcharlt speaking of which, it's time now, so who is moderating it?
18:03 khall tcohen: that's a good idea
18:02 cait but maybe discuss at the meeting? :)
18:02 cait drojf does i guess
18:02 drojf thd: beginning of october
18:01 thd Does anyone remember when we had agreed to schedule a vote on the KohaCon14 bids, now that we actually have two options for a contest?
18:01 drojf in case someone gets a moderation request for the mailing lists when unlisted addresses are used as senders… sorry, please delete my mail :)
18:01 tcohen khall?
18:00 cait maybe just ask kyle to split out the template as a patch for 3.12?
18:00 cait oh
18:00 cait I am a bit confused :)
18:00 tcohen everything seems to depend on course reserves right now
18:00 cait hm does it happen that often?
17:59 tcohen yes
17:59 cait tcohen: you mean new plugins?
17:59 drojf oops. mailing list fail
17:58 tcohen can i add to "coding guidelines" that template plugins should go in a separate commit?
17:57 cait :)
17:57 mtompset I hope it is more meaningful than next, next, next. :)
17:57 bag oh popcorn! hmm I'm going to go make some
17:57 bag yay!!! feels the excitement
17:55 talljoy mmmm....popcorn
17:54 * druthb offers talljoy some popcorn.
17:53 * talljoy hides from druthb
17:45 * druthb is in a sassy mood, cait; you better watch out.
17:44 druthb ….then I still have chocolate.
17:44 druthb oh, no worries. Is the world still turning?
17:44 mtompset Yep... of course, I'd offer you a chocolate, but it has to last me until tomorrow. ;)
17:44 druthb I don't like overly sweet, but super-salty is no good, either
17:43 cait druthb: excellent, i don't like salty :)
17:43 oleonard Gonna have to miss the meeting after all guys, my apologies.
17:43 * druthb shoots a rubber band at wahanui.
17:42 wahanui Better is "take cover." :)
17:42 druthb Better?
17:41 * druthb offers mtompset the celery.
17:41 * druthb tips the delivery boy, who flees from her wrath.
17:41 druthb sweet-ish.
17:41 * druthb gives the delivery boy the ebil eye as he comes in, with a package of celery sticks.
17:41 cait sweet or salty?
17:41 * cait takes the popcorn
17:41 * druthb looks impatiently at the door
17:40 * druthb picks up her cell phone, taps at it for a moment.
17:40 druthb hm. Maybe.
17:40 mtompset ^an^any^
17:40 mtompset Sadly, not on my diet. :( Have an celery?
17:39 * druthb offers popcorn.
17:39 * druthb scrunches in.
17:39 * mtompset scoots over.
17:39 mtompset Sorry, my thighs haven't shrunk much on my diet yet. :(
17:38 * druthb makes the popcorn for the meeting, gets a big bowl, and tells mtompset to scoot over n make room for another spectator.
17:24 * druthb hides.
17:23 * mtompset braces for impact. ;)
17:20 cait everyone get ready - meeting in 40 min :)
16:37 druthb cPanellers have a reputation for consuming lots of alcomohols at these events. "Don't be the story" is the mantra.
16:36 rambutan I was thinking those same implications :)
16:35 druthb (implying, of course, that a) this is a problem, and b) they *don't* arrest people for that in Houston.)
16:33 druthb "don't miss the bus, be on time for your preso, wear your fancy polo. oh, and don't pee in the gutter in NOLA. They arrest people for that there.
16:33 druthb The "protocol" meeting for the cPanel conference was about useless.
16:32 druthb I have filled my meeting quota for the day.
16:31 rambutan funny :)
16:31 * druthb gets out the Goo-Gone, so she can untape herself and RUN AWAY.
16:31 magnuse druthb: you planning to stick around for the meeting, then? ;-)
16:30 * druthb gets out the duct tape, and tapes herself to her chair.
16:30 kf magnuse: sorry, was on the phone typing :) but glad you found it
16:10 kf :)
16:10 magnuse i might catch that, perhaps
16:10 magnuse ah, meeting i 1 hour 50 minutes
16:09 magnuse kf++ branchtransfers was what i was looking for
16:06 kf transfers tabel for the manual ones
16:06 kf if it's a ohld reserve
16:06 kf in the reserves table in status i think
16:06 magnuse ooh, there is a meeting?
16:06 wahanui T is for unit tests like functionality stuffs
16:06 magnuse kf: T?
16:00 * oleonard will be back for the meeting
15:57 kf transfers table or T
15:54 magnuse or to put it another way: how can i write sql that finds items that are in transit?
15:51 magnuse ?
15:51 magnuse lazy question: how are items marked as "in transit" (in the database)
15:48 oleonard Thanks, I see the problem
15:47 kf oleonard: yes, I think so
15:46 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10850 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Give Quick spine label template page its own id
15:46 oleonard kf: Does Bug 10850 refer to /cgi-bin/koha/labels/spinelabel-print.pl ?
15:28 * jcamins justifies this absurd process to himself by saying "hey, we're only on version 0.0.4."
15:27 jcamins gmcharlt: I need JSON for Biblionarrator, but I'm too lazy to write a node.js module that generates MiJ, so instead I'm uploading all my MARC files to my development server, where I run a tiny script that opens them and spits out MiJ, and download the result.
15:26 gmcharlt *valuable
15:26 gmcharlt jcamins: unpack that a little? the flip side is that you are providing valuing beta testing for a new module :)
15:25 jcamins gmcharlt: really using MARC::File::MiJ is just laziness on my part and I ought to be ashamed of myself, or something.
15:21 jcamins Yep.
15:20 gmcharlt jcamins: good thing it's only 0.1ish :)
15:20 jcamins Or, at least, it seems to be.
15:19 jcamins gmcharlt: since I know you have been anxiously awaiting the answer, it is "no."
15:15 mtompset But those sections which jcamins made appear always are blank, tcohen. So, it's not really a big deal, is it?
15:12 gmcharlt jcamins: I haven't played with enough to have an opinion -- check with BillDueber in #code4lib
15:11 jcamins gmcharlt: hey, are we sure that MARC::File::MiJ actually handles non-ascii?
15:01 jcamins tcohen: yeah, I make several sections appear always.
15:00 kivilahtio jcamins: ok
15:00 jcamins kivilahtio: not really.
15:00 tcohen jcamins, your patch changes the template's logic in several places
14:59 kivilahtio jcamins: does the Koha community have a security team
14:59 kivilahtio jcamins: do you have any idea who would help us make such a security audit?
14:59 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10405 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , User-editable sections should have ids
14:59 tcohen bug 10405
14:58 jcamins Maybe ByWater?
14:58 jcamins I'm not sure if anyone else has either.
14:58 jcamins No.
14:57 kivilahtio jcamins: Like purchase a security certificate from a 3rd party?
14:57 kivilahtio jcamins: But you havent conducted any security reviews?
14:57 jcamins I don't think so, though I guess there might be.
14:57 jcamins It is as secure as your server. It's all available to anyone with the permissions to view it.
14:57 kivilahtio jcamins: I guess there is no way of hiding the SSN from unauthorized librarians?
14:56 jcamins For me, the accountability of having the SSN available for librarians and disgruntled student employees to steal greatly outweighs the accountability of being able to look up SSN.
14:56 kivilahtio jcamins: yeah, that was our initial plan, but how secure that is?
14:56 kivilahtio and the fear that they never can fine patrons who won't return books
14:55 jcamins I know of libraries that use extended patron attributes for SSN.
14:55 kivilahtio I think it has to do with accountability
14:55 kivilahtio jcamins: we too, but they don't want to lose the SSN
14:55 jcamins kivilahtio: I generally try to persuade my libraries not to.
14:55 kivilahtio ssn?
14:55 kivilahtio do you need to store your patrons SSNs?
14:54 kivilahtio While reading the implementation checklist, I noticed custom patron fields. I remember we loved that attribute, but I am curious whther or not you use SSNs with your patron records?
14:50 chris_n ok, I marked the bug 'wontfix' because the "problem" is really not with our code; added a note of explanation saying as much
14:47 jcamins Aleph-- # pretty sure these records came from Aleph.
14:44 * chris_n imagines dilbert on fire
14:43 chris_n gmcharlt: its probably not a bad idea over all and would lend welcomed flexibility for those who need their particular variation of the theme
14:43 jcamins chris_n: well, maybe.
14:43 chris_n jcamins: its probably more likely that users would be exploding into flames trying to get their brains wrapped around the proper algorithm :)
14:42 gmcharlt (in conjunction with everything that such a column would imply)
14:41 gmcharlt a new class_sources.splitting_rule might be a Nice Thing
14:41 jcamins Silly chris_n... what could possibly go wrong? (computer explodes in flames)
14:41 gmcharlt hmm
14:40 chris_n but that may create more problems than it solves
14:39 chris_n but I suppose that we could entertain a system preference which would permit users to cook up their own splitting regexp to be applied if they so chose
14:39 chris_n the way the code is currently written, ccn is a fall back for when lcc or ddc fails to split (which is probably very seldom in reality)
14:38 jcamins ... not that I'm surprised.
14:38 jcamins Oh man. This file is a mess.
14:37 chris_n nengard: ccn should not be used as a type
14:36 pastebot "chris_n" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "CCN Split Test" (49 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/213
14:35 gmcharlt that only invites longer term problems
14:35 gmcharlt nengard: please don't make a general recommendation for folks to set it to anything other than LCC for the LC call numbers
14:35 nengard :)
14:34 chris_n hold on
14:34 chris_n actually not just on spaces
14:34 chris_n nengard: ccn will split on spaces
14:34 nengard and you said it only splits at spaces
14:33 nengard which isn't quite right cause it's supposed to split at the dots too
14:33 Joubu thanks oleonard-away for signing off and the followup!
14:33 nengard so instead of LCC everyone should choose CCN if they want it to split the way they expect it to
14:33 nengard k
14:32 gmcharlt they use a variation of LCCN
14:32 gmcharlt National Library of Medicine
14:32 chris_n it is
14:32 gmcharlt and lcc is the same as nlm (or should be) for splitting purposes
14:32 * chris_n is not sure what nlm is
14:31 chris_n the custom simply splits on spaces I think
14:31 chris_n nengard: the underlying code allows for lcc, nlm, ddc, and then falls back to the ccn (custom call number split)
14:30 gmcharlt each item can specify what it's correct call number type is
14:30 jcamins That'll work.
14:30 gmcharlt nengard: I think what chris_n is saying is that the call number class is not just a global setting
14:30 gmcharlt MARC::File::XML does know how to transcode, though, so you can do the iso2709->marcxml->utf8 route that way
14:30 jcamins Bah humbug.
14:29 nengard there is Dewey, LCC, Sudoc, Generic ... i think there might be more than that
14:29 gmcharlt which is a hole to be filled, yes
14:29 gmcharlt jcamins: there isn't actually an equivalent of $record->to_charset()
14:29 nengard There are more than 3
14:29 nengard are you saying instead it should be a 'custom'
14:29 chris_n nengard: there are three options at present I think; let me look
14:28 jcamins Wait... no, that's just the leader.
14:28 chris_n otherwise they are all split as whatever the default CN system is set to
14:28 nengard chris_n - didn't they say that they had it set to LCC?
14:28 jcamins $record->encoding('UTF-8');
14:28 jcamins I knew there was a one-liner.
14:28 gmcharlt chris_n: yes
14:28 jcamins Here it is.
14:28 chris_n nengard: the other important point this bug brings up is the need of properly setting the call number source at the item level
14:27 chris_n gmcharlt: looks good; did you happen to add a note to 10821?
14:26 gmcharlt chris_n: https://code.google.com/p/library-callnumber-lc/issues/detail?id=7
14:25 jcamins gmcharlt: I don't suppose you have an example somewhere of using MARC::Batch to convert from MARC-8 to UTF-8?
14:23 jcamins marc8--
14:20 gmcharlt sec
14:19 chris_n gmcharlt: will you pass on the request or should it be filed as a bug somewhere?
14:18 nengard heh
14:17 * chris_n always wondered why it seemed that LCCN spine labels were shouting at him
14:17 gmcharlt indeed
14:16 chris_n forcing uc should probably be an option in any case
14:16 chris_n gmcharlt: the components method could also be made to consider any rules which permit prefixes and suffixes
14:16 nengard k
14:15 gmcharlt dbwells, actually
14:15 nengard chris_n?? :)
14:15 gmcharlt chris_n: nengard: I do see enough here to convince me that a non-normalizing version of L::C::LC->components() is worth asking for -- and I know just the person to bug about it
14:13 nengard and suffixes to your call numbers
14:13 nengard yeah, but there are rules that allow for adding prefixes
14:12 gmcharlt I don't mean that entirely seriously, but there is just a bit of GIGO going on here IMO
14:12 gmcharlt nengard: the bug reporter is not following standard LCCN practice -- how is that a good thing?
14:12 chris_n nengard: that module "normalizes" LCCNs
14:12 nengard cause it worked for most libraries then
14:12 nengard then it should go back to the way it was
14:12 chris_n I think the odds of being able to parse all sorts of version of LCCNs is remote at best
14:11 nengard wait a second - the splitter is adding in characters - it's adding in spaces and dots ... how is that a good thing?
14:11 gmcharlt chris_n: a not-likely-to-get-around-to-any-time-soon, at least -- after alll, the architecture does support somebody writing a funky_LCCN sorter
14:11 nengard chris_n please don't say that
14:11 kf I will do it, when I get around....
14:10 gmcharlt sound it out :)
14:10 chris_n gmcharlt: I'm thinking its a "wont' fix" bug then
14:10 jcamins nengard: ideally they are round.
14:10 gmcharlt nengard: they're round tuits, specifically
14:09 nengard okay .... what are tuits
14:09 gmcharlt chris_n: upon skimming, I suspect that it does indeed boil down to out-of-spec numbers; the work that motivated the introduction of L::C::LC came with specific examples of real live call numbers
14:09 chris_n jcamins: throw some on the next truck headed down I95 if you don't mind; I'll try them
14:08 jcamins chris_n: don't knock cinnamon cream-coated tuits until you've tried them.
14:08 gmcharlt heh
14:08 chris_n better be chocolate coated :)
14:07 * kf hands gmcharlt a bowl of tuits
14:06 chris_n it look like it boils down to out-of-spec LC numbers to me
14:06 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10821 major, P1 - high, ---, cnighswonger, In Discussion , label pdf adding in strange breaking
14:06 chris_n gmcharlt: did you have a chance to look at my musings on bug 10821?
14:05 jcamins Thanks.
14:05 jcamins There's nothing on the bug, and I can't remember if you asked me a question that I was supposed to get back to you on.
14:04 gmcharlt jcamins: tuits
14:04 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5202 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Passed QA , Merge authority records
14:04 jcamins gmcharlt: is there anything specific holding up bug 5202, or just tuits?
14:02 msaby bye
14:01 gmcharlt oleonard++ # meeting reminder
13:43 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8252 critical, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Needs Signoff , Error in DOM biblio for UNIMARC (no range for fields 1xx)
13:43 msaby (other bugs about fixing DOM for unimarc are bug 8252 - need signoff - and 7421, signed by kf )
13:39 msaby (the patch is a bit larger than the title of the bug)
13:38 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9830 normal, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Needs Signoff , Some UNIMARC item indexes could be broken whith Queryweightfields syspref
13:38 msaby I am thinking of bug 9830
13:37 msaby I don't know if it can explain vfernandes problem
13:37 msaby and there is a specif pbm for searching some fields in the item
13:37 msaby DOM indexing in unimarc is broken
13:37 msaby for vfernandes and unimarc bugs
13:36 * jcamins looks up, expecting to see Cybermen or Daleks chasing msaby. :)
13:36 msaby I am not here for a question, but an answer ;-)
13:36 oleonard Then you'd better ask your question msaby ;)
13:35 msaby I don't have a lot of time
13:35 msaby Greetings, #koha
13:28 Joubu arf, I don't reproduce
13:26 Joubu no... If zebra returns undef
13:26 Joubu I don't remember exactly, I think the issue is: if a search is launched and zebra returns no result, without this patch I got an error
13:26 oleonard Would I have gotten an error on the opac search history page after trying a search?
13:25 oleonard Yes--at least I think I did!
13:25 Joubu oleonard: Hi! Did you try to stop zebra?
13:23 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10807 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , OPAC: There is no authority search history
13:23 oleonard Joubu: How can I test the second patch on Bug 10807?
13:18 vfernandes kf: yes I'm using DOM
13:09 quoc_uy okie.
13:09 mtompset Yes.
13:09 mtompset Not for another 5 hours, I believe.
13:09 quoc_uy it's about 5 hours to the meeting, isn't it?
13:08 quoc_uy i am waithing for general meeting :), i missed it 2 months
13:08 talljoy good morning!
13:08 quoc_uy :)
13:07 mtompset There... finally got my patches up. :)
13:07 quoc_uy hi all
13:06 mtompset Greetings, quoc_uy talljoy Dyrcona.
12:41 tcohen morning #koha
12:41 mtompset oleonard++ # for being sweet, but more for the meeting reminder. ;)
12:40 nengard that was sweet of him :)
12:40 nengard awww
12:40 paul_p nengard = yes, oleonard don't want anyone forgetting my birthday :D
12:39 mtompset Greetings, oleonard -- Thanks for the meeting reminder. :)
12:39 nengard ugh - i retweeted it :)
12:39 nengard hehe
12:39 oleonard Ugh
12:39 mtompset Greetings, matts paul_p tcohen nengard. :)
12:38 nengard oleonard ^
12:38 nengard owen that link you put on twitter is for january 9th ...
12:26 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
12:19 nengard hiya all
12:18 kf hi oleonard :)
12:17 oleonard Hi #koha
12:03 kf are you using DOM?
12:03 kf vfernandes: i think there is a bug about item indexing and dom in unimarc
10:58 vfernandes using Koha search in any field I get 0 results
10:58 vfernandes in yaz-client if I do the search 'f @attr 1=1016 "01000014912"', I get one record
10:52 vfernandes I don't know what I could do now
10:44 vfernandes removing "# just to index every subfield" didn't work
10:33 vfernandes dcook++
10:33 vfernandes ok thanks dcook
10:33 vfernandes first i'm trying removing without "# just to index every subfield"
10:32 dcook Anyway, I really should be running (hours ago). I hope that helps or that someone else is able to help you out
10:29 dcook Try commenting out "melm 995 item # just to index every subfield" and reindexing
10:29 pastebot "dcook" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Compare UNIMARC 995 with MARC21 952" (56 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/212
10:29 pastebot "dcook" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Compare UNIMARC 995 with MARC21 952" (56 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/211
10:26 dcook ?
10:26 dcook Can you do a "list_all" and tell me what shows up for elements
10:25 dcook Hmm...that just shows it as marcxml
10:24 vfernandes then do a search and use "s" to show
10:24 vfernandes connect using the unix file, change to biblios database
10:24 vfernandes then: "base biblio", "form xml", "f @attr 1=1016 "search"", s
10:23 vfernandes yaz-client unix:/KOHA_HOME/var/run/zebradb/bibliosocket
10:22 dcook This might help explain: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Understanding_Zebra_indexing
10:22 vfernandes it's reindexing now
10:22 dcook I very rarely do that and I"ve only successfully done it once
10:22 dcook Quick question, how did you show the indexes in yazclient again?
10:21 dcook However, I think there would still be a bug even if it did just say item
10:21 dcook Yeah, it should just be item
10:21 wahanui well, interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
10:21 dcook Interesting..
10:19 vfernandes ?
10:19 vfernandes "item # just to index every subfield" sould be only "item"
10:17 dcook one moment
10:16 dcook That index name looks really strange
10:16 dcook <z:index name="item # just to index every subfield:w">01000014911 0 5714 ISCTE-IUL 0 MQ.103 FER*Aná (Res) 2011-04-29 0 AM_RES ISCTE-IUL ISCTE</z:index>
10:16 dcook <z:index name="item # just to index every subfield:w">01000014912 0 5713 ISCTE-IUL 0 MQ.103 FER*Aná 2011-04-29 0 AM_RES 2012-06-25 ISCTE-IUL ISCTE</z:index>
10:16 dcook Any idea what this is?
10:16 dcook Probably because each isn't being indexed separately
10:15 vfernandes so why I can get any results?
10:15 dcook It's probably concatenating all the 995 fields together...
10:14 vfernandes it's a barcode
10:14 vfernandes 0100001491205713
10:14 dcook This seems to have your call number and barcode in it...
10:14 dcook <z:index name="Any:w Any:p">0100001491105714ISCTE-IUL0MQ.103 FER*Aná (Res)2011-04-290AM_RESISCTE-IULISCTE</z:index>
10:14 dcook <z:index name="Any:w Any:p">0100001491205713ISCTE-IUL0MQ.103 FER*Aná2011-04-290AM_RES2012-06-25ISCTE-IULISCTE</z:index>
10:14 dcook Although it doesn't look like barcode is in the any index..
10:12 dcook It looks your any index has data in it. I think the keyword uses the any index.
10:12 dcook Overall, it looks pretty good. Some of the indexes look a bit funny to me but I'm not familiar with UNIMARC (I use MARC21) and I'd have to double-check
10:07 vfernandes could be that?
10:07 vfernandes the name looks wrong
10:07 vfernandes look at the last two z:index
10:06 pastebot "vfernandes" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "record xml" (68 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/210
10:06 vfernandes now I can connect with yaz-client
10:05 vfernandes problem solved...
10:02 vfernandes i'm getting a error trying to use yaz-client
10:02 dcook paste.koha-community.org
10:02 dcook Use the following link for that..
10:01 dcook Hmm, I'm not sure. I'm just about to leave for the day (8pm in Australia). I'm sure someone else might know. They'll probably need you to paste the results of your zebra reindexing
10:00 vfernandes yes UNIMARC
10:00 wahanui UNIMARC is http://www.ifla.org/en/publications/unimarc-formats-and-related-documentation
10:00 dcook UNIMARC?
09:59 vfernandes i Think this is correct
09:59 vfernandes record.abs 995$f barcode, item
09:58 vfernandes bc takes directly to the records, callnum give a result list to searches like "PS"
09:57 dcook Almost done my email...3 hours later...
09:57 * dcook says not really having the time to answer
09:57 dcook vfernandes: I'm not sure. Do those callnum and bc searches take you directly to the items or do they give you result lists?
09:57 dcook ^^
09:51 drojf kivilahtio: if you find out it is too much power in the end, ask gmcharlt or rangi about running some automated testing for koha code on a small part of it :)
09:40 paul_p kivilahtio this server is just crazy if you want my opinion.
09:39 paul_p kivilahtio = please, give me your server, and I'll be able to run all our Koha libraries with it No doubt !
09:38 vfernandes What could be?
09:38 vfernandes if I use keyword search I get 0 results, if I use the specific advanced search fields (callnum and bc) the searches work fine
09:36 vfernandes I'm getting problems searching for barcodes and callnumbers
09:34 vfernandes Can anyone help me with some search problems?
09:34 vfernandes Hi people
09:24 * drojf leaves for non-koha things and hopes he won't forget about the meeting
09:23 dcook [off] Oh man...I'm responding to an email...I've been responding for...over 1.5 hours...and there is still so much left to respond to...O_O
09:23 dcook I don't know if I'll make the next Kohacon but I've wanted to go to Argentina for years...
09:22 dcook hehe
09:22 drojf i would not have minded skipping the voting process though ^^
09:21 drojf oh. i missed that we have two cool proposals for kohacon 2014 now
09:20 dcook I'm more of a software person though, so perhaps I heard something different :p
09:20 dcook I can't remember the exact specs but I think that server has 128GB Ram as well and something like 32 cores.
09:19 dcook well*
09:19 dcook kivilahtio: The New South Wales Parliament has more than double your bib record count on Koha as weell
09:19 drojf kf: you were right :)
09:18 drojf http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Koha+IRC+General+Meeting&iso=20130911T18
09:16 kivilahtio hope so
09:16 kivilahtio :D
09:16 kf and faster :)
09:16 rangi so i reckon you will be fine
09:16 rangi on a much smaller server
09:16 rangi nekls is bigger than you guys, 40+ branches more records and items
09:15 wahanui drojf: i'm not following you...
09:15 drojf wahanui: bad bot, no cookies
09:15 rangi nat lib venezuala runs 7 million records
09:15 kivilahtio drojf: that would be cool
09:15 drojf irc meeting?
09:15 drojf we should have a bot that knows such things
09:15 drojf meeting?
09:15 kivilahtio I have a gut feeling we could run into software problems
09:15 kf i am really not good with hardware specs, i leave that to my coworkers :)
09:14 drojf kivilahtio: i'd like to say you can run as much library as you wish with that kind of hardware, but that's just a guess :D
09:14 kf kivilahtio: based on what paul_p said... a big one?: )
09:14 kivilahtio drojf: there is no kill like overkill!
09:14 kf drojf: i have noted 8 - hope it's right
09:14 kivilahtio drojf: two of those
09:13 kivilahtio drojf: that's what we had in mind for Evergreen
09:12 drojf 128gb ram? :D
09:12 drojf kf: is the meeting 7 or 8 for us?
09:12 kivilahtio Can anyone give me a tip about what kind of a library we could run with two servers specced at 128GB RAM, RAID-1 SSD's, 4x quad core 2.4Ghz. + nginx load balancer/web cache
09:10 dcook I remember reading that one a while ago..
09:10 dcook rangi++
09:10 dcook hehe
09:02 rangi http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2012/11/21/i-bought-a-car-by-sending-out-a-document-and-evaluating-salespeoples-written-responses/
09:01 rangi i have a good blogpost about rfp
09:00 kivilahtio ++
09:00 kivilahtio here's hoping for Koha
08:59 dcook Good luck kivilahtio :)
08:59 kivilahtio off to wirte some RFP's
08:59 kivilahtio anyway
08:59 kivilahtio otherwise there would have been no way of sticking to any budget or timeframe
08:58 kivilahtio well we didnt do much process diagrams until we really had to. Our task of learning two library systems was huge and figure out their capabilites, so we just based evaluations on manual entries
08:58 dcook Ah, perhaps I misread you
08:57 dcook For mapping existing processes probably
08:57 dcook Well...
08:57 dcook That is...not all features are necessarily contained in a module per se
08:57 kivilahtio but process diagrams are best for that as well
08:57 dcook I think features also go beyond modules
08:57 dcook Agreed
08:56 kivilahtio comparisons are hard
08:56 dcook I think that's also somewhat problematic when you do the ILS evaluations
08:56 dcook hehe
08:56 kivilahtio dcook: we noticed
08:56 dcook Perhaps even circulation
08:56 dcook Cataloguing as a concept might include cataloguing, acquisitions, authorities, and serials
08:56 kivilahtio patrons
08:55 kivilahtio cataloguing, acquisitions, serials ...
08:55 kivilahtio well, circluation
08:55 dcook Do you need to categorize them by module?
08:55 dcook Mapping existing processes and then outlining abstracted ideal ones (and perhaps even how it could in Millennium in some cases...)
08:54 kivilahtio but categorizing different requirements to various modules is hard
08:54 dcook Yeah, I ended up using flowcharts in the end
08:54 kivilahtio dcook: atleast for me it was rather mind boggling. But doable. I think process diagrams are the best tool
08:54 dcook And like you say...many libraries have different localizations which have been introduced over time
08:53 dcook True true
08:53 kivilahtio dcook: Seems to be impossible to make one. ILS is just such a huge entity
08:53 dcook kivilahtio: I think requirements specifications are the plagues of ever ILS scene ;)
08:53 dcook I suppose dans is supposed to be more literal..
08:51 dcook I screw up dans and à sometimes.
08:51 dcook I had the feeling that might be it..
08:51 paul_p dcook = main dans la main (dans = in)
08:51 kivilahtio :)
08:51 dcook Or is that hand to hand...
08:50 dcook paul_p: English probably stole it from French :p. main à main?
08:50 kivilahtio :)
08:50 kivilahtio paul_p: Experience has taught me as much
08:50 paul_p kivilahtio in french, we say "better one who knows that 10 who search"
08:50 paul_p kivilahtio no, I just suggest to work with someone who know. That could be us (BibLibre), Magnus, or anyone else involved in the community.
08:49 kivilahtio paul_p: So you suggest we work with Magnus to re-evaluate Koha, and arrange possible migration support and training?
08:48 paul_p dcook (hand-in-hand is a word to word translation. happy to know it's also english ;-) )
08:47 kivilahtio not that it has anything to do with my project
08:47 dcook paul_p: Ahh, I didn't know that. That's cool. No Frenchisms that I see either :)
08:47 kivilahtio apaprently this requirements specification for a library has been a plague of the Finiish ILS scene for ever
08:47 dcook Our branch had one of the nicest migrations of the entire system (306 branches of differing sizes) though, so that made me happy
08:47 paul_p drojf = ++ (hélas!) libraries describe how to do instead of which goal they want
08:47 kivilahtio actually there is a national project in Finalnd, to make the ultimate techincal requirements specification for a ILS, they have 500 000€ funding for that
08:46 dcook I did requirements gathering for a Horizon to Millennium migration for a single branch once. It was...interesting.
08:46 paul_p dcook (knowing that we've a business partnership with magnus, so at the end we would probably work hand-in-hand -frenchism suspected-)
08:46 dcook Exactly
08:45 drojf dcook: yes, people describing a certain way to do things (like they are used to do it) instead of the goal they want to achieve…
08:45 dcook magnuse in Norway, slef (?) in the UK, paul_p in France
08:45 dcook But yeah...I think you'd be best off submitting your requirements list to some vendors (probably in English)
08:45 dcook It's amazing how often a "requirement" is actually a preference or an outmoded practice.
08:44 kivilahtio kf: Taht has been one of the many challenges
08:44 dcook Perhaps, although I'm skeptical of requirement documents sometimes...
08:44 kivilahtio dcook: yeah, we have a checklist of things we need and some process descriptions. Someone who know a system could go through our list of requirements and evaluate how well they match
08:44 dcook Requirements evaluation is a tough one especially in a consortium and with librarians (being a librarian, I'm allowed to say that :P).
08:43 dcook What kf said ^^
08:43 dcook Eep
08:43 kf i think it takes a while to wrap your mind around an ILS
08:43 dcook Outsourcing requirements evaluation?
08:42 kivilahtio i guess a bit both
08:42 kivilahtio or we are realyl dumb :)
08:42 kivilahtio it is raelly complex
08:41 kivilahtio so we have been focusing on Eg for maybe 18 months, or 46 man-months
08:41 kivilahtio paul_p: but such is life :)
08:41 kivilahtio paul_p: on the hind-sight we should have outsourced the requirements evaluation
08:41 kivilahtio paul_p: then 8 man-months for requirements specification
08:40 kivilahtio paul_p: well. 2.5y is not exactly correct. I spent the first 6 months doing data migration to Eg and Koha
08:40 paul_p (not necessarly because of EG though)
08:40 paul_p kivilahtio I agree, because not being successfull after 2.5years is just insane.
08:39 kivilahtio kf: back then we decided to take the Evergreen route, but like I said our progress is so poor, we need to re-evaluate
08:39 dcook He'd be the person who'd know
08:38 kivilahtio kf: actualyl gmcharlt made a slight suggestion we might take a look at Koha ;)
08:38 kf hm bit bad that gmcharlt is not around, he knows both communities quite well
08:38 dcook paul_p: lol
08:38 kivilahtio drojf: I guess we are making slow progress that other devs actualyl would make localizable code
08:38 dcook kivilahtio: Evergreen certainly looks intimidating. I keep meaning to install it someday down the road but Koha is pretty straightforward, especially using packages.
08:38 kf some tend to come back as zombies but ingeneral i agree
08:38 kivilahtio drojf: Yeah we hired a guy to do that localization, but the Evergreen community doesn't play very nice with us
08:37 * paul_p loves chab (my partner) last quote on our biblibre channel "a good support ticket is a dead support ticket"
08:37 kf localizations
08:37 kf in terms of localiation
08:37 drojf kivilahtio: 8 months? woah
08:37 kivilahtio drojf: I totally loved it. I feel like I achieved more in the 3 hours i spent installing Koha yesterday than in 3 months of Evergreen
08:37 kf kivilahtio: and it's getting better all the time - but mostly in a good place now :)
08:37 kivilahtio paul_p: and some smaller rural library
08:37 drojf kivilahtio: you should be happy with koha when it comes to localizations
08:37 kivilahtio paul_p: so true
08:36 kivilahtio drojf: we have been trying to get localizations to work for 8 months
08:36 kivilahtio drojf: We have INSANE localization issues
08:36 paul_p kivilahtio IIRC, there's also a monestary in finland, using Koha (valamo ?)
08:36 kivilahtio we met few years ago
08:36 drojf dcook: that was my impression when we decided which system to use. rather us-centric
08:36 kivilahtio paul_p: already emailing him ;) and we have chatted and I think me in some occasion years ago
08:36 paul_p kivilahtio = I know finland & norway are different, but do you know that there's a nice guy in norway providing Koha support ( magnus_away => ping !)
08:36 kivilahtio paul_p: but it seems that we are strongly trying to simplify our parameters in wake of your municipal library cooperation
08:35 kivilahtio paul_p: we chose Evergreen for its consortial features and strong emphasis on individual library parametrization.
08:35 paul_p kivilahtio got it !
08:34 kivilahtio paul_p: and possible migration support
08:34 kivilahtio paul_p: I posted an email to the Koha mailing list. We are looking for help in re-evaluating Koha
08:34 dcook I'm not super famililar with Evergreen, but I think it's mostly developed in North America?
08:34 paul_p kivilahtio and frankly, with only 20 branches, I'm not sure you need evergeen feature (there are some things that EG do, not Koha, in circulation management AFAIK)
08:34 dcook kivilahtio: That probably would've helped :p
08:34 dcook Only about 2000 patrons though
08:34 dcook Apparently we have a library with 900,000 biblios and 1,000,000 items
08:34 kivilahtio we should have done our Requirements specification in Enlgish :D
08:33 dcook Silly me
08:33 dcook I thought you meant Koha vendors
08:33 dcook Ahhh
08:33 kivilahtio dcook:various Evergreen vendors
08:33 kivilahtio and been mostly associated with techincal challenges, which have been aplenty
08:33 paul_p kivilahtio = http://catalogue.univ-aix-marseille.fr/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl
08:33 kivilahtio tho I became the project manager only 10 months ago
08:32 dcook enquiries to whom?
08:32 kivilahtio maybe it is my charming character :D
08:32 kivilahtio paul_p: way way more cheaper, but somehow all my enquiries have met deaf ears
08:32 dcook Agreed with paul_p
08:32 kivilahtio paul_p: well I agree
08:31 kivilahtio not to mention I have had lots of experience fighting out M$-only IT support deprtment for every right to move
08:31 rangi they have 40ish branches
08:31 paul_p kivilahtio you want my opinion = that would have been way cheaper to pay a company !
08:31 rangi wizzyrea: you around?
08:31 kivilahtio I can say I have learned a lot
08:31 rangi ahh nekls might be worth talking to too
08:31 kivilahtio we have ~20 bracnhes
08:30 kivilahtio notsure if months add up
08:30 kivilahtio paul_p: yes, alone for first 7 months, then with one librarian for 10 months, and now we hire one more techie, for 10 months
08:30 paul_p kivilahtio = that's roughly the same size as AixMarseille.
08:30 * dcook is thinking of this in terms of politics and staff interactions
08:30 dcook I mean...how many physical branches?
08:30 kivilahtio dcook: 60 000 patrons, 400 000 biblios, 1 000 000 itesm
08:30 paul_p oh my god ! you mean you're working on this project since more than2.5 years ? incredible !
08:29 dcook How big is Joensuu Regional Library?
08:29 kivilahtio dcook: I am fatigued :)
08:29 dcook Way too long
08:29 kivilahtio dcook: too long
08:29 dcook Holy...
08:29 kivilahtio dcook: yeah
08:29 dcook 2.5 years?
08:29 paul_p kivilahtio well, most of them are *much* smaller than AixMarseille university, someof them are x00 000 items
08:29 kivilahtio paul_p: Sorry for skipping introductions. I am Olli-Antti Kivilahti, from Finland. I was hired to compare OS ILS' for the Joensuu Regional Library and do data migration. Well after 2,5 years I am a project manager and wavering in my faith to migrate to Evergreen ILS
08:28 * dcook is always curious about numbers of customers
08:27 paul_p kivilahtio = we host something like 50 different customers, and we host many on a single 16GB / 4CPU / SAS15k hard disks
08:27 paul_p kivilahtio = (just in case: I'm Paul Poulain, from France, founder of BibLibre, the largest french company supporting Koha. And retired Koha Release Manager)
08:27 kivilahtio paul_p: Evergreen hardware requirements are raelly large
08:26 kivilahtio paul_p: just our workstations have 16GB RAM :)
08:26 kivilahtio paul_p: agreed
08:26 kivilahtio paul_p: agredd
08:26 paul_p kivilahtio = the hint here being "4 years old servers". 4 years ago, it was not that low ;-)
08:26 kivilahtio paul_p: this search was FAST http://www.cooslibraries.org/search~S0/?searchtype=X&searcharg=rock&sortdropdown=-&SORT=DZ&extended=0&SUBMIT=Search&searchlimits=&searchorigarg=Xoperation
08:25 kivilahtio paul_p: I mean that's crazy low
08:25 paul_p kivilahtio yep, really
08:25 kivilahtio paul_p: really? 16GB ram?
08:25 paul_p kivilahtio yep, I've seen. Limoges is not our largest library. The largest one is AixMarseille university, 1.400.000 items, 47 libraries. They're running a 4 years old server, with 16GB ram, 2 4CPU processors, and RAID5 (or RAID10 ?) disks
08:24 kivilahtio paul_p: and looking at the link posted by rangi: http://www.librarytechnology.org/lwc-displaylibrary.pl?RC=147552. It looks like your installation is about the same size as ours
08:24 dcook 81% that can't be right...
08:24 dcook Aha
08:24 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Regina, Saskatchewan is 8.0°C (2:00 AM CST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Windchill: 6.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Rising).
08:24 dcook @wunder yqr
08:24 dcook paul_p: Regina is nowhere near a fault line but maybe a meteorite! Actually, I think I just got a message from my parents. It must just be a very small place.
08:23 kivilahtio paul_p: And I was curious about the hardware requirements and server architectures in use
08:23 kivilahtio paul_p: we were talking about Koha performance under larger datasets
08:23 kivilahtio paul_p: sorry, I was lost in links
08:23 paul_p kivilahtio do you have a question about Limoges municipal network of Libraries ?
08:22 paul_p kivilahtio = rangi called me saying "maybe you could tak to paul_p about that one".
08:22 kivilahtio paul_p: I am not sure what you mean with "kivilahtio do you need me?" ?
08:19 paul_p dcook = maybe there's been an earthquake here ? or a meteorite ? ;-)
08:19 dcook paul_p: Yep. It's been pretty dry here for a while. Let's hope it continues...
08:18 dcook I'm sure I've done that one before..
08:18 huginn` dcook: Error: No such location could be found.
08:18 dcook @wunder regina, canada
08:18 huginn` dcook: Error: No such location could be found.
08:18 dcook @wunder regina, saskatchewan
08:17 paul_p wow, dcook humidity 6% ! that's very very low !
08:17 kivilahtio because I was a bit jealous of kf
08:17 kivilahtio because I was a bit jealous of kg
08:17 paul_p kivilahtio good point.
08:17 kivilahtio paul_p: I guess it depends whether or not you like winter
08:16 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Sydney Airport, New South Wales is 21.0°C (6:00 PM EST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 6%. Dew Point: -8.0°C. Pressure: 29.85 in 1011 hPa (Rising).
08:16 paul_p ( fortunately, no one from Africa, india on the channel :D )
08:16 dcook @wunder sydney, australia
08:16 drojf unfair ^^
08:16 paul_p hehe... I beat all of you :D
08:16 huginn` paul_p: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 19.0°C (10:00 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 49%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady).
08:16 paul_p @wunder Marseille
08:16 huginn` rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 14.0°C (8:00 PM NZST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.59 in 1002 hPa (Steady).
08:16 paul_p kivilahtio you need me ?
08:16 rangi @wunder nzwn
08:15 rangi or someone from bywater abbout that
08:15 huginn` kivilahtio: The current temperature in Joensuu, Finland is 13.0°C (10:50 AM EEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady).
08:15 kivilahtio @wunder Joensuu
08:15 rangi http://www.librarytechnology.org/lwc-displaylibrary.pl?RC=13654
08:14 kf good morning drojf
08:14 rangi you could talk to paul_p about that one
08:14 rangi kivilahtio: http://www.librarytechnology.org/lwc-displaylibrary.pl?RC=147552
08:14 kf BRRR!
08:14 huginn` kf: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 12.0°C (10:00 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Rising).
08:14 kf @wunder Konstanz
08:13 drojf brr
08:13 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 13.9°C (10:12 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady).
08:13 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
08:13 drojf good morning #koha
08:11 kivilahtio letäs hope he pops up
08:10 kivilahtio ok
08:10 kf he is located in argentina
08:10 kf kivilahtio: he is normally around a little later
08:09 kivilahtio rangi: kf: Hmm, could I email him?
08:09 rangi and some biggish ones
08:09 kf tcohen has a lot of koha instances to take care of
08:08 kf heh, not quite what i was looking for
08:08 kivilahtio ofc I could just dig up my old migration scripts and push our data to Koha ;)
08:08 wahanui tcohen is obsessed with packages' scripts
08:08 kf tcohen?
08:07 kivilahtio what does tcohen do?
08:07 kivilahtio understood
08:07 rangi kivilahtio: id talk to tcohen if you see him
08:07 kf not really - I am not taking care of the hardware and our installations are not as big
08:06 kivilahtio kf: Do you have any opinions about hardware?
08:06 kf so offering different library related services
08:06 kivilahtio kf: Do you have any opinions about performance?
08:06 kf yep, that's our union catalog, we are a library service center
08:06 dcook err catalogue even
08:06 dcook I think kf has the most beautiful catalog, iirc
08:06 kivilahtio SWB-online Katalog
08:05 kf ah, you are looking at the union catalog I think?
08:04 kivilahtio wow kf, yous searches are super fast
08:04 kivilahtio guten Morgen kf!
08:03 kivilahtio kf: I still remeber some german words so I can pull a catalog search atleast
08:02 * kf is in Germany - working for http://www.bsz-bw.de
08:02 kf :)
08:02 kivilahtio rangi: cool :)
08:01 rangi i work for http://catalyst.net.nz/
08:01 rangi i dont work in a library
08:01 kivilahtio rangi: I think I already slipped our numbers
08:01 kivilahtio rangi: so how large is your library?
08:00 kivilahtio nginx might be the thing, since we are looking into more HA solution
08:00 rangi yep
08:00 rangi because they both do it a zillion times faster than apache can
08:00 kivilahtio 128 is pretty good for bang vs buck i think
08:00 rangi to deal with all the static content
08:00 rangi id definitely put nginx and/or varnish out in front of the apache too
07:59 rangi but like i say, the more you can put in, the more apache threads you can have
07:59 kivilahtio rangi: well you get load from your patrons. Lots of simultaneous searches
07:59 rangi id go for at least 32
07:59 rangi we aren't rendering things
07:59 kivilahtio rangi: good to hear
07:59 rangi nothign koha does is cpu bound to any real extent
07:58 rangi circ really doesnt work the cpu much at all
07:58 kivilahtio bibs vs ram, circulation/year vs cpu...
07:58 kivilahtio rangi: or do you have any hardware numbers i could correlate from?
07:58 kivilahtio rangi: can you give us any numbers? Like how much RAM is needed for 400 000 bibliographics records and 1 000 000 items=
07:57 dcook rangi: I'm not much of a dancer either :p
07:57 rangi but the /tmp as ram is a good win
07:57 rangi cos else a reboot would be a mess :)
07:57 rangi you want the actual indexes on disk tho
07:57 kivilahtio rangi: ok
07:57 rangi that is a big win
07:57 rangi so if you put that partition as ramdisk
07:57 kivilahtio rangi: ah
07:56 rangi kivilahtio: but the zebra indexing writes out the records to disk, as marcxml and adds them to the index
07:56 kivilahtio rangi: yeah, was planning to run it from RAM
07:56 kivilahtio kf: just thinking about Koha
07:56 rangi kivilahtio: the mysql server shouldnt do too much I/O if you have enough RAM
07:56 kf was just reading your email to the mailing list
07:56 kf hi kivilahtio
07:55 kivilahtio hi kf!
07:55 rangi hi kf
07:55 kf hi all
07:55 kf hi rangi
07:55 rangi and that will mean your search will be slow
07:55 kivilahtio rangi: do you mean high I/O for the mysql server?
07:55 rangi if you have slow disk, your zebra indexing will be slow
07:55 kivilahtio rangi: do you mean high I/O for the server?
07:55 kivilahtio rangi: clearly string operations :)
07:55 rangi I/O
07:55 kivilahtio rangi: so what are the performance bottlenecks?
07:54 rangi if you have to choose between fast cpu and fast ram/disk choose ram/disk
07:54 kivilahtio rangi: we were aiming for 128GB and SSD's
07:54 rangi my rule of thumb, get as much ram as you can afford and as fast a disk as you can afford
07:53 rangi its a bit of a how long is a piece of string
07:53 rangi nope
07:53 kivilahtio rangi: how about hardware? Do you have any established hardware requirements?
07:53 kivilahtio rangi: yeah
07:52 rangi because its all just a website
07:52 rangi but yep, any techniques you use to scale a website, you can use with koha
07:50 kivilahtio rangi: all the koha instances run on the same hardware
07:50 rangi there are mysqlcluster
07:50 kivilahtio rangi: nut sure if you have database load balancing solution in mysql like pgpool-II in postgresql
07:50 rangi thats not the same
07:50 rangi nope
07:50 kivilahtio rangi: have a public server, intranet server, master mysql server and hot-spare mysql
07:49 kivilahtio rangi: but you can achieve this using multiple web server
07:49 rangi (nginx in front and people cant even tell the difference)
07:49 rangi once you login, you hit the koha that does writes
07:49 rangi reads
07:49 rangi ie 99% of the OPAC usage is rads
07:48 rangi you use the instance that hits the slave db
07:48 kivilahtio rangi: We are planning to have a library consortium to service 3 municipalities
07:48 rangi for the opac, when you aren't logged in
07:48 rangi you can do tricks like
07:48 kivilahtio rangi: I mean if I understand the benefit of it
07:48 rangi i would run 2
07:48 kivilahtio rangi: well we are planning to run one instance
07:47 rangi they can use the same db, or different ones
07:47 rangi ie, with the debian packages it simple to run up as many koha instances as you like
07:47 kivilahtio rangi: yeah, I was rather dismayed when I realized that those were the primary use cases in the Evergreen community
07:46 rangi and run the reports against the slave db
07:46 kivilahtio rangi: also we had some issues about library hierarchy, like we have libraries with different departments. Main library has musics-, serials, childrens- and adult departments under the main branch
07:46 rangi you can also do tricks like use mysql replication
07:45 kivilahtio rangi: we need to re-evaluate those es well :)
07:45 rangi if you have independentbranches the permissions too
07:45 rangi (the fine, circ ones anyone)
07:45 rangi you can do that with Koha
07:43 rangi dcook: just do do some interpretive dance
07:43 kivilahtio not that having a varied parametrizations makes any sense, not the least for our patrons
07:42 kivilahtio I think the main point with Evergreen for us is the proven performance and ability to set very specific circulation, permission, fine settings for each library
07:41 dcook [off] I think I might be the worst presenter of all time. I feel slightly bad for the people having to watch my presentation.:p
07:41 kivilahtio what was one thing that pushed us to Evergreen was performance. Back then Koha was under some bad rap about managing large installations, especially regarding serials
07:40 rangi http://git.koha-community.org/stats/koha-master/activity.html <-- we cover every hour of the day
07:39 * dcook doesn't remember consenting to being filmed :p
07:39 kivilahtio wow, I like the global koha-community -aspect :)
07:38 rangi yep, they are still closer to your time than i am :)
07:38 kivilahtio timezone is not that much of an issue for us, we have been ok with the Evergreen community time-zone-wise
07:38 rangi he also has a really good understanding of what koha can and cant do
07:37 kivilahtio well magnus has always been a charmer :)
07:37 rangi same timezone makes things a lot easier
07:37 kivilahtio hm
07:36 rangi id vote for magnus
07:36 rangi watching a bunch of these will probably give you a really good feel
07:36 kivilahtio rangi: Any idea who could host a webinar for us. We have a pretty solid understanding of what requirements we have for a ILS and would like to talk with someone or someones who have a deep understanding of Koha both techincally and from the librarians perspective.
07:36 rangi however http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon13_Program
07:35 rangi but the hackfest would be the best place to get a real feel for it
07:34 kivilahtio I think it was Eg 2013 in Vancouver not 2014
07:34 rangi kivilahtio: the sessions are being filmed
07:34 kivilahtio but yeah I noticed that
07:34 kivilahtio We just were in Vancouver for the Eg 2014 :)
07:34 rangi awesome thanks paul_p
07:34 paul_p hiya rangi. Will send you my history presentation today, with some changes I'd like to do, and/or, some comments on some slides, TBD
07:33 kivilahtio hi rangi!
07:33 rangi hiya paul_p
07:28 dcook ^^
07:28 rangi there is of course kohacon13
07:28 paul_p bonjour #koha
07:27 rangi kivilahtio: its for eifl-floss so not really aimed at you
07:25 dcook So either, neither, whatever fits with the rest of the sql query
07:25 dcook salut paul_p
07:25 dcook It lets you refer to the table by the letter rather than the column name
07:24 dcook SE: That letter is just an alias.
07:20 kivilahtio magnuse: sure, I think the webinar shouldnt be too long, like 4h
07:20 SE Can anyone tell me what is aqorders o and aqorders a? I m not a programmer but I need to write KOHA SQL report. I don't know which one to put
07:20 magnuse have fun!
07:20 magnuse [off] magnus@libriotech.no
07:19 magnuse kivilahtio: could you send me an email describing what you need? i can see if i can fit it in
07:19 kivilahtio magnuse: and I mean a lot of questions, ranging from all ILL modules to localization data migratin, development
07:19 magnuse but i'm sorry i have to run
07:19 dcook kivilahtio: I think rangi is giving a webinar for an organization later this month
07:19 magnuse kivilahtio: that could work
07:19 magnuse they do
07:18 dcook Maybe BibLibre. I assume they offer services in English and French.
07:18 kivilahtio magnuse: I think we could have a webinar? And we ask many manby questions from you
07:18 dcook I think the software.coop in the UK might be another good option
07:18 magnuse yeah
07:18 dcook kivilahtio: You'd probably be best off contacting many vendors
07:18 kivilahtio magnuse: If we find Koha to be superior to Evergreen, we can still change our direction
07:17 magnuse kivilahtio: sounds interesting! but time is a problem, i'm afraid
07:17 kivilahtio magnuse: Primarily we need our requirement re-evalued, and fast
07:17 magnuse dcook: yeah, i look at schema.k-c.org
07:17 kivilahtio magnuse: programmer training
07:16 kivilahtio magnuse: staff training
07:16 kivilahtio magnuse: requirements analysis
07:16 magnuse kivilahtio: what would you need me for?
07:14 kivilahtio well thanks for chatting
07:14 kivilahtio yup
07:13 dcook Right now doesn't count for me since I should be going home
07:13 dcook More than enough work to keep us busy until oblivion
07:13 dcook kivilahtio: So true
07:13 dcook magnuse: Have you checked the kohastructure.sql? Maybe there are some comments there
07:13 kivilahtio ILS people seem to have their schedules full
07:12 kivilahtio magnuse: I was afraid of that
07:12 magnuse :-)
07:12 dcook O_o
07:12 kivilahtio hyvää päivää Magnus
07:12 kivilahtio hyvää päviää Magnus
07:12 magnuse this week is filled to bursting and beyond
07:12 kivilahtio hyvää päiää Magnus
07:12 kivilahtio magnuse: Is your schedule full?
07:12 magnuse hyyve kivilahtio (or something similar)
07:11 kivilahtio yeah, we had a chat with magnuse back then
07:11 magnuse or the reserveconstraints table?
07:11 dcook Mmm...not off the top of my head, magnuse
07:11 dcook kivilahtio: magnuse is probably the nearest to you geographically. Perhaps he's a good person to ask.
07:10 magnuse anyone know what reserves.constrainttype does?
07:10 kivilahtio also we have a requirements specification that needs to be evalued by a koha professional
07:10 * magnuse grumbles
07:10 * dcook is wondering why he's still at work
07:10 dcook In transit? ;)
07:10 kivilahtio kia ora magnuse
07:10 magnuse hm, where's kf when you need her... ;-)
07:09 kivilahtio still accesssing the same database
07:09 dcook hey ya magnuse
07:09 magnuse kia ora #koha
07:09 kivilahtio tho Eg has the benfit of running for ex. the Reporting on a separate machine
07:09 dcook To be honest, I work with Koha every day, and I'm not even up to speed with where 3.12 is at
07:09 kivilahtio the method for scaling is the same with Koha as Evergreen
07:08 dcook <--- librarian turned developer rather than straight up CS/IT person
07:08 dcook Mmm, fair enough
07:08 kivilahtio so presonally I don't see the scaling benefit
07:08 kivilahtio like with Koha
07:08 kivilahtio and it scaled with normal db replication techniques
07:08 kivilahtio database is the bottle neck
07:08 kivilahtio dcook: not true IMHO
07:08 kivilahtio even if it was clear that it was technically more difficult
07:07 * dcook has yet to install it
07:07 dcook Yeah, I hear it scales well
07:07 kivilahtio we chose Eg because it had better merits in large Consortias
07:07 dcook Most evaluations I've heard, even back then, tended to favour Koha
07:07 dcook Intriguing
07:07 kivilahtio 50/50 Eg vs Koha
07:07 kivilahtio and our evaluation was a tie
07:07 dcook Yeah, that was quite a long time ago
07:07 kivilahtio 3.2
07:07 kivilahtio 3.4
07:07 kivilahtio we are around 6 months from going live, with some system
07:07 dcook I imagine you evaluated 3.8? Maybe even 3.6?
07:06 kivilahtio actualyl I was hoping for someone to help us get up to speed
07:06 dcook Accessing the intranet from another machine?
07:06 dcook 3.14 is coming out in November I think..
07:06 kivilahtio tho accessing the intranet from another machine seems hard ;)
07:06 dcook Releases are 6 months apart so that would've been...
07:06 kivilahtio atleast installing was easy
07:06 dcook It would've been drastically different I imagine
07:05 * dcook ponders
07:05 dcook 18 months ago..
07:05 kivilahtio this makes me wonder if the Koha we investigated 18 months ago is the same Koha as 3.12
07:05 dcook True true
07:05 dcook Mmm
07:05 kivilahtio :D
07:05 kivilahtio and in 18 months Koha has advnaced a lot
07:05 kivilahtio we have been working 36 man months on Evergreen and our progress is really slow
07:05 dcook Our stance?
07:04 dcook There are a lot of features ;)
07:04 kivilahtio i sent an email to the mailing list about our need to re-evaluate our stance on Evergreen
07:04 dcook Yep
07:04 kivilahtio its huge
07:04 dcook I suppose the best broad overview would be the manual
07:04 kivilahtio i just installed 3.12
07:04 wahanui really is off now
07:04 kivilahtio really?
07:04 dcook 3.4? Time for an upgrade!
07:03 wahanui kivilahtio is running 3.4
07:03 dcook Hey kivilahtio
06:56 kivilahtio Good morning Koha! Is there any place where I could take a broad overview about Koha features?
06:51 alex_a salut dcook
06:50 dcook salut alex_a
06:45 alex_a bonjour
06:42 cait bbl
06:41 cait hi reiveune :)
06:40 reiveune salut dcook rangi cait
06:39 dcook hey ya reiveune
06:38 reiveune hello
06:37 dcook Hmm, not too bad..
06:37 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 24.0°C (4:00 PM EST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 18%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Pressure: 29.77 in 1008 hPa (Steady).
06:37 dcook @wunder sydney, australia
06:36 huginn` cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 10.3°C (8:35 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
06:36 cait @wunder Konstanz
06:35 dcook Mmm. Not sure. I've never looked at unapi.
06:32 cait if it does it at all?
06:32 cait how does the unapi code do it?
06:32 cait hm
06:29 dcook Rather than "JOUR" or "CHAP"
06:29 dcook Or rather "BOOK"
06:28 dcook As it exports everything with a leader position 6 "a" as "Book"
06:28 dcook I was just thinking in regards to the RIS export
06:27 dcook Just make the choice at the local level
06:27 dcook I suppose that's one way to do it, eh?
06:27 dcook Hmm
06:27 cait .
06:27 cait well we are going to use it like serial/monographic
06:27 dcook Yeah...
06:27 cait oh meh.
06:26 dcook "Example of a serial component part with corresponding host item is a regularly appearing column or feature in a periodical."
06:26 dcook "Examples of monographic component parts with corresponding host items include an article in a single issue of a periodical, a chapter in a book, a band on a phonodisc, and a map on a single sheet that contains several maps."
06:26 dcook Nopes
06:26 cait and article is serial i'd think
06:26 cait chapter is monographic component part
06:26 dcook Which would both be a monographic component part
06:26 cait it does
06:26 dcook Yeah, but that doesn't differentiate between an article and a book chapter
06:26 cait ... in the LDR I think
06:26 cait serial component part and monographic component part
06:25 cait dcook: there are things for articles
06:23 dcook hey cait :)
06:23 cait hi dcook
06:21 dcook All the browser tabs!
05:35 cait morning eythian :)
05:35 eythian hi cait
05:34 cait good morning #koha
04:49 dcook Autobiography v. Individual biography v. collective biography...
04:48 dcook But of course. Distinguish a filmography from a bibliography, but not a book from an article.
04:48 dcook Gotta love how things like "article" or "chapter" don't wind up in MARC, but the 008 will tell you if the item is a "Surveys of literature in a subject area"
04:45 * mtompset waves bye to dcook mtj_/mtj etc.
04:45 mtompset Have a great day, #koha.
04:41 dcook Kohacon in a month!
04:25 dcook Double encoding illuminated and problem bandaided for now. Any rewrites to that aren't happening today.
04:25 * dcook shrug
04:25 dcook I suppose they're using the query string rather than the form data so that they don't have to guess what's coming through..
04:23 mtj_ yeah, makes sense to me too
04:11 dcook Hence double encoded
04:11 dcook Of course HTML forms would automatically be urlencoded...
04:11 dcook Now that I think about it...this was all dreadfully obvious :p
04:03 dcook Yeah, it's defo the browser that is double encoding it..
03:57 dcook Maybe
03:57 dcook That would make sense..
03:57 dcook I guess %20 might just be %2520 unencoded
03:56 dcook It's...url_param() that prints out %20..
03:56 dcook query_string() does print out %2520
03:56 dcook Wait..
03:52 dcook "You can also retrieve the unprocessed query string with query_string():" That doesn't seem to be the case though as that prints out %20 as well..
03:51 dcook I figure it should use param() instead, but I'm curious as to why it's double encoding in any case..
03:50 dcook This code is using the URL query string rather than the param() values though..
03:50 dcook Which is right..
03:50 dcook While the data retrieved using param() says %20
03:50 dcook The URL says %2520 (double encoded space)
03:49 dcook True that...
03:49 dcook "If you try to mix a URL query string with a form submitted with the GET method, the results will not be what you expect."
03:46 dcook I think what I'm reading might be a shortcut..
03:46 dcook Mmm, I don't know if anything does do something similar
03:45 mtj_ dcook, also look a some Koha code that does something similar to yours
03:36 mtj_ ...often around the cumbersomeness of an api, that could be improved
03:35 mtj_ i've found that writing tests can be very revealing about your code
03:29 * dcook reads some Perl docs
03:26 dcook As for the double encoding...I think maybe the browser is doing the double encoding...
03:25 rangi it is a much better way of doing it
03:25 rangi yep
03:24 dcook That said, I'm sure the code could be better
03:24 dcook When I was writing the unit test for the OAI-PMH harvester, I noticed that X would be good and Y should be better, so I fixed the code and made it so that the test would validate in a meaningful way
03:24 dcook I like the idea of writing tests before writing code though, or writing tests while writing the code
03:22 dcook mtj_, it seems to me that data that is hex encoded is encoded again when passed as form data
03:21 dcook Well, aside from the double encoding
03:21 dcook In this case...I know what it's doing and it isn't doing it very well :p
03:21 dcook Good call, rangi
03:19 rangi heya mtj_
03:19 mtj_ heya rangi :)
03:18 mtj_ (thats how i'd approach it)
03:18 mtj_ dcook, try and add warns on the string, at various stages - see if you can spot the glitchy transform
03:18 rangi :)
03:18 wahanui rewrite is http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2012/07/31/yes-you-should-rewrite-it-no-not-like-that/
03:18 rangi rewrite?
03:17 wahanui hmmm... rewrite is different
03:17 rangi rewrite?
03:15 dcook But aside from re-writing it...
03:15 dcook Oh, I think it's all pretty naughty in this case :p
03:14 mtj_ yeah, it can be difficult to work out where the naughty code is
03:12 dcook But then that just reveals more bugs with this particular code...
03:12 dcook Yeah, I'm not sure where the double encoding is happening exactly, although I could try to unencode the data at one part so the double encoding doesn't happen
03:11 mtj_ dcook, i remember the 1st few times i bumped into double-encoding bugs… it was tricky :/
02:58 dcook Admittedly, it's for a local customization so not really a big issue..
02:57 dcook Trying to figure out why Koha is double-encoding some URLs...
02:54 dcook Mmm, it might just explode again though
02:51 mtompset As long as you picked up all the pieces, no problem. ;)
02:51 dcook Oh wait, now I remember. Hmm, I'll just pretend to block it out.
02:51 * dcook doesn't remember why his brain was exploding yesterday.
02:50 dcook Mmm, no doubt, eh?
02:50 mtompset YAY for reading code, and the patience to "*tweak* refresh *look at logs* *tweak* refresh *look at logs* *repeat many many times*"
02:50 wahanui mtompset is probably disliking finding bugs while testing.
02:50 dcook hey mtompset
02:49 mtompset My brain's less exploded now, dcook. Solved part of my problems today. :)
02:49 mtompset Greetings, dcook.
02:41 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
00:08 jcamins If I say so myself. Which I find I must.
00:04 jcamins The bruschetta was inspired.