Time Nick Message
00:04 jcamins The bruschetta was inspired.
00:08 jcamins If I say so myself. Which I find I must.
02:41 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
02:49 mtompset Greetings, dcook.
02:49 mtompset My brain's less exploded now, dcook. Solved part of my problems today. :)
02:50 dcook hey mtompset
02:50 wahanui mtompset is probably disliking finding bugs while testing.
02:50 mtompset YAY for reading code, and the patience to "*tweak* refresh *look at logs* *tweak* refresh *look at logs* *repeat many many times*"
02:50 dcook Mmm, no doubt, eh?
02:51 * dcook doesn't remember why his brain was exploding yesterday.
02:51 dcook Oh wait, now I remember. Hmm, I'll just pretend to block it out.
02:51 mtompset As long as you picked up all the pieces, no problem. ;)
02:54 dcook Mmm, it might just explode again though
02:57 dcook Trying to figure out why Koha is double-encoding some URLs...
02:58 dcook Admittedly, it's for a local customization so not really a big issue..
03:11 mtj_ dcook, i remember the 1st few times i bumped into double-encoding bugs… it was tricky :/
03:12 dcook Yeah, I'm not sure where the double encoding is happening exactly, although I could try to unencode the data at one part so the double encoding doesn't happen
03:12 dcook But then that just reveals more bugs with this particular code...
03:14 mtj_ yeah, it can be difficult to work out where the naughty code is
03:15 dcook Oh, I think it's all pretty naughty in this case :p
03:15 dcook But aside from re-writing it...
03:17 rangi rewrite?
03:17 wahanui hmmm... rewrite is different
03:18 rangi rewrite?
03:18 wahanui rewrite is http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2012/07/31/yes-you-should-rewrite-it-no-not-like-that/
03:18 rangi :)
03:18 mtj_ dcook, try and add warns on the string, at various stages - see if you can spot the glitchy transform
03:18 mtj_ (thats how i'd approach it)
03:19 mtj_ heya rangi :)
03:19 rangi heya mtj_
03:21 dcook Good call, rangi
03:21 dcook In this case...I know what it's doing and it isn't doing it very well :p
03:21 dcook Well, aside from the double encoding
03:22 dcook mtj_, it seems to me that data that is hex encoded is encoded again when passed as form data
03:24 dcook I like the idea of writing tests before writing code though, or writing tests while writing the code
03:24 dcook When I was writing the unit test for the OAI-PMH harvester, I noticed that X would be good and Y should be better, so I fixed the code and made it so that the test would validate in a meaningful way
03:24 dcook That said, I'm sure the code could be better
03:25 rangi yep
03:25 rangi it is a much better way of doing it
03:26 dcook As for the double encoding...I think maybe the browser is doing the double encoding...
03:29 * dcook reads some Perl docs
03:35 mtj_ i've found that writing tests can be very revealing about your code
03:36 mtj_ ...often around the cumbersomeness of an api, that could be improved
03:45 mtj_ dcook, also look a some Koha code that does something similar to yours
03:46 dcook Mmm, I don't know if anything does do something similar
03:46 dcook I think what I'm reading might be a shortcut..
03:49 dcook "If you try to mix a URL query string with a form submitted with the GET method, the results will not be what you expect."
03:49 dcook True that...
03:50 dcook The URL says %2520 (double encoded space)
03:50 dcook While the data retrieved using param() says %20
03:50 dcook Which is right..
03:50 dcook This code is using the URL query string rather than the param() values though..
03:51 dcook I figure it should use param() instead, but I'm curious as to why it's double encoding in any case..
03:52 dcook "You can also retrieve the unprocessed query string with query_string():" That doesn't seem to be the case though as that prints out %20 as well..
03:56 dcook Wait..
03:56 dcook query_string() does print out %2520
03:56 dcook It's...url_param() that prints out %20..
03:57 dcook I guess %20 might just be %2520 unencoded
03:57 dcook That would make sense..
03:57 dcook Maybe
04:03 dcook Yeah, it's defo the browser that is double encoding it..
04:11 dcook Now that I think about it...this was all dreadfully obvious :p
04:11 dcook Of course HTML forms would automatically be urlencoded...
04:11 dcook Hence double encoded
04:23 mtj_ yeah, makes sense to me too
04:25 dcook I suppose they're using the query string rather than the form data so that they don't have to guess what's coming through..
04:25 * dcook shrug
04:25 dcook Double encoding illuminated and problem bandaided for now. Any rewrites to that aren't happening today.
04:41 dcook Kohacon in a month!
04:45 mtompset Have a great day, #koha.
04:45 * mtompset waves bye to dcook mtj_/mtj etc.
04:48 dcook Gotta love how things like "article" or "chapter" don't wind up in MARC, but the 008 will tell you if the item is a "Surveys of literature in a subject area"
04:48 dcook But of course. Distinguish a filmography from a bibliography, but not a book from an article.
04:49 dcook Autobiography v. Individual biography v. collective biography...
05:34 cait good morning #koha
05:35 eythian hi cait
05:35 cait morning eythian :)
06:21 dcook All the browser tabs!
06:23 cait hi dcook
06:23 dcook hey cait :)
06:25 cait dcook: there are things for articles
06:26 cait serial component part and monographic component part
06:26 cait ... in the LDR I think
06:26 dcook Yeah, but that doesn't differentiate between an article and a book chapter
06:26 cait it does
06:26 dcook Which would both be a monographic component part
06:26 cait chapter is monographic component part
06:26 cait and article is serial i'd think
06:26 dcook Nopes
06:26 dcook "Examples of monographic component parts with corresponding host items include an article in a single issue of a periodical, a chapter in a book, a band on a phonodisc, and a map on a single sheet that contains several maps."
06:26 dcook "Example of a serial component part with corresponding host item is a regularly appearing column or feature in a periodical."
06:27 cait oh meh.
06:27 dcook Yeah...
06:27 cait well we are going to use it like serial/monographic
06:27 cait .
06:27 dcook Hmm
06:27 dcook I suppose that's one way to do it, eh?
06:27 dcook Just make the choice at the local level
06:28 dcook I was just thinking in regards to the RIS export
06:28 dcook As it exports everything with a leader position 6 "a" as "Book"
06:29 dcook Or rather "BOOK"
06:29 dcook Rather than "JOUR" or "CHAP"
06:32 cait hm
06:32 cait how does the unapi code do it?
06:32 cait if it does it at all?
06:35 dcook Mmm. Not sure. I've never looked at unapi.
06:36 cait @wunder Konstanz
06:36 huginn` cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 10.3°C (8:35 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
06:37 dcook @wunder sydney, australia
06:37 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 24.0°C (4:00 PM EST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 18%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Pressure: 29.77 in 1008 hPa (Steady).
06:37 dcook Hmm, not too bad..
06:38 reiveune hello
06:39 dcook hey ya reiveune
06:40 reiveune salut dcook rangi cait
06:41 cait hi reiveune :)
06:42 cait bbl
06:45 alex_a bonjour
06:50 dcook salut alex_a
06:51 alex_a salut dcook
06:56 kivilahtio Good morning Koha! Is there any place where I could take a broad overview about Koha features?
07:03 dcook Hey kivilahtio
07:03 wahanui kivilahtio is running 3.4
07:04 dcook 3.4? Time for an upgrade!
07:04 kivilahtio really?
07:04 wahanui really is off now
07:04 kivilahtio i just installed 3.12
07:04 dcook I suppose the best broad overview would be the manual
07:04 kivilahtio its huge
07:04 dcook Yep
07:04 kivilahtio i sent an email to the mailing list about our need to re-evaluate our stance on Evergreen
07:04 dcook There are a lot of features ;)
07:05 dcook Our stance?
07:05 kivilahtio we have been working 36 man months on Evergreen and our progress is really slow
07:05 kivilahtio and in 18 months Koha has advnaced a lot
07:05 kivilahtio :D
07:05 dcook Mmm
07:05 dcook True true
07:05 kivilahtio this makes me wonder if the Koha we investigated 18 months ago is the same Koha as 3.12
07:05 dcook 18 months ago..
07:05 * dcook ponders
07:06 dcook It would've been drastically different I imagine
07:06 kivilahtio atleast installing was easy
07:06 dcook Releases are 6 months apart so that would've been...
07:06 kivilahtio tho accessing the intranet from another machine seems hard ;)
07:06 dcook 3.14 is coming out in November I think..
07:06 dcook Accessing the intranet from another machine?
07:06 kivilahtio actualyl I was hoping for someone to help us get up to speed
07:07 dcook I imagine you evaluated 3.8? Maybe even 3.6?
07:07 kivilahtio we are around 6 months from going live, with some system
07:07 kivilahtio 3.4
07:07 kivilahtio 3.2
07:07 dcook Yeah, that was quite a long time ago
07:07 kivilahtio and our evaluation was a tie
07:07 kivilahtio 50/50 Eg vs Koha
07:07 dcook Intriguing
07:07 dcook Most evaluations I've heard, even back then, tended to favour Koha
07:07 kivilahtio we chose Eg because it had better merits in large Consortias
07:07 dcook Yeah, I hear it scales well
07:07 * dcook has yet to install it
07:08 kivilahtio even if it was clear that it was technically more difficult
07:08 kivilahtio dcook: not true IMHO
07:08 kivilahtio database is the bottle neck
07:08 kivilahtio and it scaled with normal db replication techniques
07:08 kivilahtio like with Koha
07:08 kivilahtio so presonally I don't see the scaling benefit
07:08 dcook Mmm, fair enough
07:08 dcook <--- librarian turned developer rather than straight up CS/IT person
07:09 kivilahtio the method for scaling is the same with Koha as Evergreen
07:09 dcook To be honest, I work with Koha every day, and I'm not even up to speed with where 3.12 is at
07:09 kivilahtio tho Eg has the benfit of running for ex. the Reporting on a separate machine
07:09 magnuse kia ora #koha
07:09 dcook hey ya magnuse
07:09 kivilahtio still accesssing the same database
07:10 magnuse hm, where's kf when you need her... ;-)
07:10 kivilahtio kia ora magnuse
07:10 dcook In transit? ;)
07:10 * dcook is wondering why he's still at work
07:10 * magnuse grumbles
07:10 kivilahtio also we have a requirements specification that needs to be evalued by a koha professional
07:10 magnuse anyone know what reserves.constrainttype does?
07:11 dcook kivilahtio: magnuse is probably the nearest to you geographically. Perhaps he's a good person to ask.
07:11 dcook Mmm...not off the top of my head, magnuse
07:11 magnuse or the reserveconstraints table?
07:11 kivilahtio yeah, we had a chat with magnuse back then
07:12 magnuse hyyve kivilahtio (or something similar)
07:12 kivilahtio magnuse: Is your schedule full?
07:12 kivilahtio hyvää päiää Magnus
07:12 magnuse this week is filled to bursting and beyond
07:12 kivilahtio hyvää päviää Magnus
07:12 kivilahtio hyvää päivää Magnus
07:12 dcook O_o
07:12 magnuse :-)
07:12 kivilahtio magnuse: I was afraid of that
07:13 kivilahtio ILS people seem to have their schedules full
07:13 dcook magnuse: Have you checked the kohastructure.sql? Maybe there are some comments there
07:13 dcook kivilahtio: So true
07:13 dcook More than enough work to keep us busy until oblivion
07:13 dcook Right now doesn't count for me since I should be going home
07:14 kivilahtio yup
07:14 kivilahtio well thanks for chatting
07:16 magnuse kivilahtio: what would you need me for?
07:16 kivilahtio magnuse: requirements analysis
07:16 kivilahtio magnuse: staff training
07:17 kivilahtio magnuse: programmer training
07:17 magnuse dcook: yeah, i look at schema.k-c.org
07:17 kivilahtio magnuse: Primarily we need our requirement re-evalued, and fast
07:17 magnuse kivilahtio: sounds interesting! but time is a problem, i'm afraid
07:18 kivilahtio magnuse: If we find Koha to be superior to Evergreen, we can still change our direction
07:18 dcook kivilahtio: You'd probably be best off contacting many vendors
07:18 magnuse yeah
07:18 dcook I think the software.coop in the UK might be another good option
07:18 kivilahtio magnuse: I think we could have a webinar? And we ask many manby questions from you
07:18 dcook Maybe BibLibre. I assume they offer services in English and French.
07:19 magnuse they do
07:19 magnuse kivilahtio: that could work
07:19 dcook kivilahtio: I think rangi is giving a webinar for an organization later this month
07:19 magnuse but i'm sorry i have to run
07:19 kivilahtio magnuse: and I mean a lot of questions, ranging from all ILL modules to localization data migratin, development
07:19 magnuse kivilahtio: could you send me an email describing what you need? i can see if i can fit it in
07:20 magnuse [off] magnus@libriotech.no
07:20 magnuse have fun!
07:20 SE Can anyone tell me what is aqorders o and aqorders a? I m not a programmer but I need to write KOHA SQL report. I don't know which one to put
07:20 kivilahtio magnuse: sure, I think the webinar shouldnt be too long, like 4h
07:24 dcook SE: That letter is just an alias.
07:25 dcook It lets you refer to the table by the letter rather than the column name
07:25 dcook salut paul_p
07:25 dcook So either, neither, whatever fits with the rest of the sql query
07:27 rangi kivilahtio: its for eifl-floss so not really aimed at you
07:28 paul_p bonjour #koha
07:28 rangi there is of course kohacon13
07:28 dcook ^^
07:33 rangi hiya paul_p
07:33 kivilahtio hi rangi!
07:34 paul_p hiya rangi. Will send you my history presentation today, with some changes I'd like to do, and/or, some comments on some slides, TBD
07:34 rangi awesome thanks paul_p
07:34 kivilahtio We just were in Vancouver for the Eg 2014 :)
07:34 kivilahtio but yeah I noticed that
07:34 rangi kivilahtio: the sessions are being filmed
07:34 kivilahtio I think it was Eg 2013 in Vancouver not 2014
07:35 rangi but the hackfest would be the best place to get a real feel for it
07:36 rangi however http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon13_Program
07:36 kivilahtio rangi: Any idea who could host a webinar for us. We have a pretty solid understanding of what requirements we have for a ILS and would like to talk with someone or someones who have a deep understanding of Koha both techincally and from the librarians perspective.
07:36 rangi watching a bunch of these will probably give you a really good feel
07:36 rangi id vote for magnus
07:37 kivilahtio hm
07:37 rangi same timezone makes things a lot easier
07:37 kivilahtio well magnus has always been a charmer :)
07:38 rangi he also has a really good understanding of what koha can and cant do
07:38 kivilahtio timezone is not that much of an issue for us, we have been ok with the Evergreen community time-zone-wise
07:38 rangi yep, they are still closer to your time than i am :)
07:39 kivilahtio wow, I like the global koha-community -aspect :)
07:39 * dcook doesn't remember consenting to being filmed :p
07:40 rangi http://git.koha-community.org/stats/koha-master/activity.html <-- we cover every hour of the day
07:41 kivilahtio what was one thing that pushed us to Evergreen was performance. Back then Koha was under some bad rap about managing large installations, especially regarding serials
07:41 dcook [off] I think I might be the worst presenter of all time. I feel slightly bad for the people having to watch my presentation.:p
07:42 kivilahtio I think the main point with Evergreen for us is the proven performance and ability to set very specific circulation, permission, fine settings for each library
07:43 kivilahtio not that having a varied parametrizations makes any sense, not the least for our patrons
07:43 rangi dcook: just do do some interpretive dance
07:45 rangi you can do that with Koha
07:45 rangi (the fine, circ ones anyone)
07:45 rangi if you have independentbranches the permissions too
07:45 kivilahtio rangi: we need to re-evaluate those es well :)
07:46 rangi you can also do tricks like use mysql replication
07:46 kivilahtio rangi: also we had some issues about library hierarchy, like we have libraries with different departments. Main library has musics-, serials, childrens- and adult departments under the main branch
07:46 rangi and run the reports against the slave db
07:47 kivilahtio rangi: yeah, I was rather dismayed when I realized that those were the primary use cases in the Evergreen community
07:47 rangi ie, with the debian packages it simple to run up as many koha instances as you like
07:47 rangi they can use the same db, or different ones
07:48 kivilahtio rangi: well we are planning to run one instance
07:48 rangi i would run 2
07:48 kivilahtio rangi: I mean if I understand the benefit of it
07:48 rangi you can do tricks like
07:48 rangi for the opac, when you aren't logged in
07:48 kivilahtio rangi: We are planning to have a library consortium to service 3 municipalities
07:48 rangi you use the instance that hits the slave db
07:49 rangi ie 99% of the OPAC usage is rads
07:49 rangi reads
07:49 rangi once you login, you hit the koha that does writes
07:49 rangi (nginx in front and people cant even tell the difference)
07:49 kivilahtio rangi: but you can achieve this using multiple web server
07:50 kivilahtio rangi: have a public server, intranet server, master mysql server and hot-spare mysql
07:50 rangi nope
07:50 rangi thats not the same
07:50 kivilahtio rangi: nut sure if you have database load balancing solution in mysql like pgpool-II in postgresql
07:50 rangi there are mysqlcluster
07:50 kivilahtio rangi: all the koha instances run on the same hardware
07:52 rangi but yep, any techniques you use to scale a website, you can use with koha
07:52 rangi because its all just a website
07:53 kivilahtio rangi: yeah
07:53 kivilahtio rangi: how about hardware? Do you have any established hardware requirements?
07:53 rangi nope
07:53 rangi its a bit of a how long is a piece of string
07:54 rangi my rule of thumb, get as much ram as you can afford and as fast a disk as you can afford
07:54 kivilahtio rangi: we were aiming for 128GB and SSD's
07:54 rangi if you have to choose between fast cpu and fast ram/disk choose ram/disk
07:55 kivilahtio rangi: so what are the performance bottlenecks?
07:55 rangi I/O
07:55 kivilahtio rangi: clearly string operations :)
07:55 kivilahtio rangi: do you mean high I/O for the server?
07:55 rangi if you have slow disk, your zebra indexing will be slow
07:55 kivilahtio rangi: do you mean high I/O for the mysql server?
07:55 rangi and that will mean your search will be slow
07:55 kf hi rangi
07:55 kf hi all
07:55 rangi hi kf
07:55 kivilahtio hi kf!
07:56 kf hi kivilahtio
07:56 kf was just reading your email to the mailing list
07:56 rangi kivilahtio: the mysql server shouldnt do too much I/O if you have enough RAM
07:56 kivilahtio kf: just thinking about Koha
07:56 kivilahtio rangi: yeah, was planning to run it from RAM
07:56 rangi kivilahtio: but the zebra indexing writes out the records to disk, as marcxml and adds them to the index
07:57 kivilahtio rangi: ah
07:57 rangi so if you put that partition as ramdisk
07:57 rangi that is a big win
07:57 kivilahtio rangi: ok
07:57 rangi you want the actual indexes on disk tho
07:57 rangi cos else a reboot would be a mess :)
07:57 rangi but the /tmp as ram is a good win
07:57 dcook rangi: I'm not much of a dancer either :p
07:58 kivilahtio rangi: can you give us any numbers? Like how much RAM is needed for 400 000 bibliographics records and 1 000 000 items=
07:58 kivilahtio rangi: or do you have any hardware numbers i could correlate from?
07:58 kivilahtio bibs vs ram, circulation/year vs cpu...
07:58 rangi circ really doesnt work the cpu much at all
07:59 rangi nothign koha does is cpu bound to any real extent
07:59 kivilahtio rangi: good to hear
07:59 rangi we aren't rendering things
07:59 rangi id go for at least 32
07:59 kivilahtio rangi: well you get load from your patrons. Lots of simultaneous searches
07:59 rangi but like i say, the more you can put in, the more apache threads you can have
08:00 rangi id definitely put nginx and/or varnish out in front of the apache too
08:00 rangi to deal with all the static content
08:00 kivilahtio 128 is pretty good for bang vs buck i think
08:00 rangi because they both do it a zillion times faster than apache can
08:00 rangi yep
08:00 kivilahtio nginx might be the thing, since we are looking into more HA solution
08:01 kivilahtio rangi: so how large is your library?
08:01 kivilahtio rangi: I think I already slipped our numbers
08:01 rangi i dont work in a library
08:01 rangi i work for http://catalyst.net.nz/
08:02 kivilahtio rangi: cool :)
08:02 kf :)
08:02 * kf is in Germany - working for http://www.bsz-bw.de
08:03 kivilahtio kf: I still remeber some german words so I can pull a catalog search atleast
08:04 kivilahtio guten Morgen kf!
08:04 kivilahtio wow kf, yous searches are super fast
08:05 kf ah, you are looking at the union catalog I think?
08:06 kivilahtio SWB-online Katalog
08:06 dcook I think kf has the most beautiful catalog, iirc
08:06 dcook err catalogue even
08:06 kf yep, that's our union catalog, we are a library service center
08:06 kivilahtio kf: Do you have any opinions about performance?
08:06 kf so offering different library related services
08:06 kivilahtio kf: Do you have any opinions about hardware?
08:07 kf not really - I am not taking care of the hardware and our installations are not as big
08:07 rangi kivilahtio: id talk to tcohen if you see him
08:07 kivilahtio understood
08:07 kivilahtio what does tcohen do?
08:08 kf tcohen?
08:08 wahanui tcohen is obsessed with packages' scripts
08:08 kivilahtio ofc I could just dig up my old migration scripts and push our data to Koha ;)
08:08 kf heh, not quite what i was looking for
08:09 kf tcohen has a lot of koha instances to take care of
08:09 rangi and some biggish ones
08:09 kivilahtio rangi: kf: Hmm, could I email him?
08:10 kf kivilahtio: he is normally around a little later
08:10 kf he is located in argentina
08:10 kivilahtio ok
08:11 kivilahtio letäs hope he pops up
08:13 drojf good morning #koha
08:13 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
08:13 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 13.9°C (10:12 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady).
08:13 drojf brr
08:14 kf @wunder Konstanz
08:14 huginn` kf: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 12.0°C (10:00 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Rising).
08:14 kf BRRR!
08:14 rangi kivilahtio: http://www.librarytechnology.org/lwc-displaylibrary.pl?RC=147552
08:14 rangi you could talk to paul_p about that one
08:14 kf good morning drojf
08:15 rangi http://www.librarytechnology.org/lwc-displaylibrary.pl?RC=13654
08:15 kivilahtio @wunder Joensuu
08:15 huginn` kivilahtio: The current temperature in Joensuu, Finland is 13.0°C (10:50 AM EEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady).
08:15 rangi or someone from bywater abbout that
08:16 rangi @wunder nzwn
08:16 paul_p kivilahtio you need me ?
08:16 huginn` rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 14.0°C (8:00 PM NZST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.59 in 1002 hPa (Steady).
08:16 paul_p @wunder Marseille
08:16 huginn` paul_p: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 19.0°C (10:00 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 49%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady).
08:16 paul_p hehe... I beat all of you :D
08:16 drojf unfair ^^
08:16 dcook @wunder sydney, australia
08:16 paul_p ( fortunately, no one from Africa, india on the channel :D )
08:16 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Sydney Airport, New South Wales is 21.0°C (6:00 PM EST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 6%. Dew Point: -8.0°C. Pressure: 29.85 in 1011 hPa (Rising).
08:17 kivilahtio paul_p: I guess it depends whether or not you like winter
08:17 paul_p kivilahtio good point.
08:17 kivilahtio because I was a bit jealous of kg
08:17 kivilahtio because I was a bit jealous of kf
08:17 paul_p wow, dcook humidity 6% ! that's very very low !
08:18 dcook @wunder regina, saskatchewan
08:18 huginn` dcook: Error: No such location could be found.
08:18 dcook @wunder regina, canada
08:18 huginn` dcook: Error: No such location could be found.
08:18 dcook I'm sure I've done that one before..
08:19 dcook paul_p: Yep. It's been pretty dry here for a while. Let's hope it continues...
08:19 paul_p dcook = maybe there's been an earthquake here ? or a meteorite ? ;-)
08:22 kivilahtio paul_p: I am not sure what you mean with "kivilahtio do you need me?" ?
08:22 paul_p kivilahtio = rangi called me saying "maybe you could tak to paul_p about that one".
08:23 paul_p kivilahtio do you have a question about Limoges municipal network of Libraries ?
08:23 kivilahtio paul_p: sorry, I was lost in links
08:23 kivilahtio paul_p: we were talking about Koha performance under larger datasets
08:23 kivilahtio paul_p: And I was curious about the hardware requirements and server architectures in use
08:24 dcook paul_p: Regina is nowhere near a fault line but maybe a meteorite! Actually, I think I just got a message from my parents. It must just be a very small place.
08:24 dcook @wunder yqr
08:24 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Regina, Saskatchewan is 8.0°C (2:00 AM CST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Windchill: 6.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Rising).
08:24 dcook Aha
08:24 dcook 81% that can't be right...
08:24 kivilahtio paul_p: and looking at the link posted by rangi: http://www.librarytechnology.org/lwc-displaylibrary.pl?RC=147552. It looks like your installation is about the same size as ours
08:25 paul_p kivilahtio yep, I've seen. Limoges is not our largest library. The largest one is AixMarseille university, 1.400.000 items, 47 libraries. They're running a 4 years old server, with 16GB ram, 2 4CPU processors, and RAID5 (or RAID10 ?) disks
08:25 kivilahtio paul_p: really? 16GB ram?
08:25 paul_p kivilahtio yep, really
08:25 kivilahtio paul_p: I mean that's crazy low
08:26 kivilahtio paul_p: this search was FAST http://www.cooslibraries.org/search~S0/?searchtype=X&searcharg=rock&sortdropdown=-&SORT=DZ&extended=0&SUBMIT=Search&searchlimits=&searchorigarg=Xoperation
08:26 paul_p kivilahtio = the hint here being "4 years old servers". 4 years ago, it was not that low ;-)
08:26 kivilahtio paul_p: agredd
08:26 kivilahtio paul_p: agreed
08:26 kivilahtio paul_p: just our workstations have 16GB RAM :)
08:27 kivilahtio paul_p: Evergreen hardware requirements are raelly large
08:27 paul_p kivilahtio = (just in case: I'm Paul Poulain, from France, founder of BibLibre, the largest french company supporting Koha. And retired Koha Release Manager)
08:27 paul_p kivilahtio = we host something like 50 different customers, and we host many on a single 16GB / 4CPU / SAS15k hard disks
08:28 * dcook is always curious about numbers of customers
08:29 kivilahtio paul_p: Sorry for skipping introductions. I am Olli-Antti Kivilahti, from Finland. I was hired to compare OS ILS' for the Joensuu Regional Library and do data migration. Well after 2,5 years I am a project manager and wavering in my faith to migrate to Evergreen ILS
08:29 paul_p kivilahtio well, most of them are *much* smaller than AixMarseille university, someof them are x00 000 items
08:29 dcook 2.5 years?
08:29 kivilahtio dcook: yeah
08:29 dcook Holy...
08:29 kivilahtio dcook: too long
08:29 dcook Way too long
08:29 kivilahtio dcook: I am fatigued :)
08:29 dcook How big is Joensuu Regional Library?
08:30 paul_p oh my god ! you mean you're working on this project since more than2.5 years ? incredible !
08:30 kivilahtio dcook: 60 000 patrons, 400 000 biblios, 1 000 000 itesm
08:30 dcook I mean...how many physical branches?
08:30 * dcook is thinking of this in terms of politics and staff interactions
08:30 paul_p kivilahtio = that's roughly the same size as AixMarseille.
08:30 kivilahtio paul_p: yes, alone for first 7 months, then with one librarian for 10 months, and now we hire one more techie, for 10 months
08:30 kivilahtio notsure if months add up
08:31 kivilahtio we have ~20 bracnhes
08:31 rangi ahh nekls might be worth talking to too
08:31 kivilahtio I can say I have learned a lot
08:31 rangi wizzyrea: you around?
08:31 paul_p kivilahtio you want my opinion = that would have been way cheaper to pay a company !
08:31 rangi they have 40ish branches
08:31 kivilahtio not to mention I have had lots of experience fighting out M$-only IT support deprtment for every right to move
08:32 kivilahtio paul_p: well I agree
08:32 dcook Agreed with paul_p
08:32 kivilahtio paul_p: way way more cheaper, but somehow all my enquiries have met deaf ears
08:32 kivilahtio maybe it is my charming character :D
08:32 dcook enquiries to whom?
08:33 kivilahtio tho I became the project manager only 10 months ago
08:33 paul_p kivilahtio = http://catalogue.univ-aix-marseille.fr/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl
08:33 kivilahtio and been mostly associated with techincal challenges, which have been aplenty
08:33 kivilahtio dcook:various Evergreen vendors
08:33 dcook Ahhh
08:33 dcook I thought you meant Koha vendors
08:33 dcook Silly me
08:34 kivilahtio we should have done our Requirements specification in Enlgish :D
08:34 dcook Apparently we have a library with 900,000 biblios and 1,000,000 items
08:34 dcook Only about 2000 patrons though
08:34 dcook kivilahtio: That probably would've helped :p
08:34 paul_p kivilahtio and frankly, with only 20 branches, I'm not sure you need evergeen feature (there are some things that EG do, not Koha, in circulation management AFAIK)
08:34 dcook I'm not super famililar with Evergreen, but I think it's mostly developed in North America?
08:34 kivilahtio paul_p: I posted an email to the Koha mailing list. We are looking for help in re-evaluating Koha
08:34 kivilahtio paul_p: and possible migration support
08:35 paul_p kivilahtio got it !
08:35 kivilahtio paul_p: we chose Evergreen for its consortial features and strong emphasis on individual library parametrization.
08:36 kivilahtio paul_p: but it seems that we are strongly trying to simplify our parameters in wake of your municipal library cooperation
08:36 paul_p kivilahtio = I know finland & norway are different, but do you know that there's a nice guy in norway providing Koha support ( magnus_away => ping !)
08:36 kivilahtio paul_p: already emailing him ;) and we have chatted and I think me in some occasion years ago
08:36 drojf dcook: that was my impression when we decided which system to use. rather us-centric
08:36 kivilahtio we met few years ago
08:36 paul_p kivilahtio IIRC, there's also a monestary in finland, using Koha (valamo ?)
08:36 kivilahtio drojf: We have INSANE localization issues
08:36 kivilahtio drojf: we have been trying to get localizations to work for 8 months
08:37 kivilahtio paul_p: so true
08:37 drojf kivilahtio: you should be happy with koha when it comes to localizations
08:37 kivilahtio paul_p: and some smaller rural library
08:37 kf kivilahtio: and it's getting better all the time - but mostly in a good place now :)
08:37 kivilahtio drojf: I totally loved it. I feel like I achieved more in the 3 hours i spent installing Koha yesterday than in 3 months of Evergreen
08:37 drojf kivilahtio: 8 months? woah
08:37 kf in terms of localiation
08:37 kf localizations
08:37 * paul_p loves chab (my partner) last quote on our biblibre channel "a good support ticket is a dead support ticket"
08:38 kivilahtio drojf: Yeah we hired a guy to do that localization, but the Evergreen community doesn't play very nice with us
08:38 kf some tend to come back as zombies but ingeneral i agree
08:38 dcook kivilahtio: Evergreen certainly looks intimidating. I keep meaning to install it someday down the road but Koha is pretty straightforward, especially using packages.
08:38 kivilahtio drojf: I guess we are making slow progress that other devs actualyl would make localizable code
08:38 dcook paul_p: lol
08:38 kf hm bit bad that gmcharlt is not around, he knows both communities quite well
08:38 kivilahtio kf: actualyl gmcharlt made a slight suggestion we might take a look at Koha ;)
08:39 dcook He'd be the person who'd know
08:39 kivilahtio kf: back then we decided to take the Evergreen route, but like I said our progress is so poor, we need to re-evaluate
08:40 paul_p kivilahtio I agree, because not being successfull after 2.5years is just insane.
08:40 paul_p (not necessarly because of EG though)
08:40 kivilahtio paul_p: well. 2.5y is not exactly correct. I spent the first 6 months doing data migration to Eg and Koha
08:41 kivilahtio paul_p: then 8 man-months for requirements specification
08:41 kivilahtio paul_p: on the hind-sight we should have outsourced the requirements evaluation
08:41 kivilahtio paul_p: but such is life :)
08:41 kivilahtio so we have been focusing on Eg for maybe 18 months, or 46 man-months
08:42 kivilahtio it is raelly complex
08:42 kivilahtio or we are realyl dumb :)
08:42 kivilahtio i guess a bit both
08:43 dcook Outsourcing requirements evaluation?
08:43 kf i think it takes a while to wrap your mind around an ILS
08:43 dcook Eep
08:43 dcook What kf said ^^
08:44 dcook Requirements evaluation is a tough one especially in a consortium and with librarians (being a librarian, I'm allowed to say that :P).
08:44 kivilahtio dcook: yeah, we have a checklist of things we need and some process descriptions. Someone who know a system could go through our list of requirements and evaluate how well they match
08:44 dcook Perhaps, although I'm skeptical of requirement documents sometimes...
08:44 kivilahtio kf: Taht has been one of the many challenges
08:45 dcook It's amazing how often a "requirement" is actually a preference or an outmoded practice.
08:45 dcook But yeah...I think you'd be best off submitting your requirements list to some vendors (probably in English)
08:45 dcook magnuse in Norway, slef (?) in the UK, paul_p in France
08:45 drojf dcook: yes, people describing a certain way to do things (like they are used to do it) instead of the goal they want to achieve…
08:46 dcook Exactly
08:46 paul_p dcook (knowing that we've a business partnership with magnus, so at the end we would probably work hand-in-hand -frenchism suspected-)
08:46 dcook I did requirements gathering for a Horizon to Millennium migration for a single branch once. It was...interesting.
08:47 kivilahtio actually there is a national project in Finalnd, to make the ultimate techincal requirements specification for a ILS, they have 500 000€ funding for that
08:47 paul_p drojf = ++ (hélas!) libraries describe how to do instead of which goal they want
08:47 dcook Our branch had one of the nicest migrations of the entire system (306 branches of differing sizes) though, so that made me happy
08:47 kivilahtio apaprently this requirements specification for a library has been a plague of the Finiish ILS scene for ever
08:47 dcook paul_p: Ahh, I didn't know that. That's cool. No Frenchisms that I see either :)
08:47 kivilahtio not that it has anything to do with my project
08:48 paul_p dcook (hand-in-hand is a word to word translation. happy to know it's also english ;-) )
08:49 kivilahtio paul_p: So you suggest we work with Magnus to re-evaluate Koha, and arrange possible migration support and training?
08:50 paul_p kivilahtio no, I just suggest to work with someone who know. That could be us (BibLibre), Magnus, or anyone else involved in the community.
08:50 paul_p kivilahtio in french, we say "better one who knows that 10 who search"
08:50 kivilahtio paul_p: Experience has taught me as much
08:50 kivilahtio :)
08:50 dcook paul_p: English probably stole it from French :p. main à main?
08:51 dcook Or is that hand to hand...
08:51 kivilahtio :)
08:51 paul_p dcook = main dans la main (dans = in)
08:51 dcook I had the feeling that might be it..
08:51 dcook I screw up dans and à sometimes.
08:53 dcook I suppose dans is supposed to be more literal..
08:53 dcook kivilahtio: I think requirements specifications are the plagues of ever ILS scene ;)
08:53 kivilahtio dcook: Seems to be impossible to make one. ILS is just such a huge entity
08:53 dcook True true
08:54 dcook And like you say...many libraries have different localizations which have been introduced over time
08:54 kivilahtio dcook: atleast for me it was rather mind boggling. But doable. I think process diagrams are the best tool
08:54 dcook Yeah, I ended up using flowcharts in the end
08:54 kivilahtio but categorizing different requirements to various modules is hard
08:55 dcook Mapping existing processes and then outlining abstracted ideal ones (and perhaps even how it could in Millennium in some cases...)
08:55 dcook Do you need to categorize them by module?
08:55 kivilahtio well, circluation
08:55 kivilahtio cataloguing, acquisitions, serials ...
08:56 kivilahtio patrons
08:56 dcook Cataloguing as a concept might include cataloguing, acquisitions, authorities, and serials
08:56 dcook Perhaps even circulation
08:56 kivilahtio dcook: we noticed
08:56 dcook hehe
08:56 dcook I think that's also somewhat problematic when you do the ILS evaluations
08:56 kivilahtio comparisons are hard
08:57 dcook Agreed
08:57 dcook I think features also go beyond modules
08:57 kivilahtio but process diagrams are best for that as well
08:57 dcook That is...not all features are necessarily contained in a module per se
08:57 dcook Well...
08:57 dcook For mapping existing processes probably
08:58 dcook Ah, perhaps I misread you
08:58 kivilahtio well we didnt do much process diagrams until we really had to. Our task of learning two library systems was huge and figure out their capabilites, so we just based evaluations on manual entries
08:59 kivilahtio otherwise there would have been no way of sticking to any budget or timeframe
08:59 kivilahtio anyway
08:59 kivilahtio off to wirte some RFP's
08:59 dcook Good luck kivilahtio :)
09:00 kivilahtio here's hoping for Koha
09:00 kivilahtio ++
09:01 rangi i have a good blogpost about rfp
09:02 rangi http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2012/11/21/i-bought-a-car-by-sending-out-a-document-and-evaluating-salespeoples-written-responses/
09:10 dcook hehe
09:10 dcook rangi++
09:10 dcook I remember reading that one a while ago..
09:12 kivilahtio Can anyone give me a tip about what kind of a library we could run with two servers specced at 128GB RAM, RAID-1 SSD's, 4x quad core 2.4Ghz. + nginx load balancer/web cache
09:12 drojf kf: is the meeting 7 or 8 for us?
09:12 drojf 128gb ram? :D
09:13 kivilahtio drojf: that's what we had in mind for Evergreen
09:14 kivilahtio drojf: two of those
09:14 kf drojf: i have noted 8 - hope it's right
09:14 kivilahtio drojf: there is no kill like overkill!
09:14 kf kivilahtio: based on what paul_p said... a big one?: )
09:14 drojf kivilahtio: i'd like to say you can run as much library as you wish with that kind of hardware, but that's just a guess :D
09:15 kf i am really not good with hardware specs, i leave that to my coworkers :)
09:15 kivilahtio I have a gut feeling we could run into software problems
09:15 drojf meeting?
09:15 drojf we should have a bot that knows such things
09:15 drojf irc meeting?
09:15 kivilahtio drojf: that would be cool
09:15 rangi nat lib venezuala runs 7 million records
09:15 drojf wahanui: bad bot, no cookies
09:15 wahanui drojf: i'm not following you...
09:16 rangi nekls is bigger than you guys, 40+ branches more records and items
09:16 rangi on a much smaller server
09:16 rangi so i reckon you will be fine
09:16 kf and faster :)
09:16 kivilahtio :D
09:16 kivilahtio hope so
09:18 drojf http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Koha+IRC+General+Meeting&iso=20130911T18
09:19 drojf kf: you were right :)
09:19 dcook kivilahtio: The New South Wales Parliament has more than double your bib record count on Koha as weell
09:19 dcook well*
09:20 dcook I can't remember the exact specs but I think that server has 128GB Ram as well and something like 32 cores.
09:20 dcook I'm more of a software person though, so perhaps I heard something different :p
09:21 drojf oh. i missed that we have two cool proposals for kohacon 2014 now
09:22 drojf i would not have minded skipping the voting process though ^^
09:22 dcook hehe
09:23 dcook I don't know if I'll make the next Kohacon but I've wanted to go to Argentina for years...
09:23 dcook [off] Oh man...I'm responding to an email...I've been responding for...over 1.5 hours...and there is still so much left to respond to...O_O
09:24 * drojf leaves for non-koha things and hopes he won't forget about the meeting
09:34 vfernandes Hi people
09:34 vfernandes Can anyone help me with some search problems?
09:36 vfernandes I'm getting problems searching for barcodes and callnumbers
09:38 vfernandes if I use keyword search I get 0 results, if I use the specific advanced search fields (callnum and bc) the searches work fine
09:38 vfernandes What could be?
09:39 paul_p kivilahtio = please, give me your server, and I'll be able to run all our Koha libraries with it No doubt !
09:40 paul_p kivilahtio this server is just crazy if you want my opinion.
09:51 drojf kivilahtio: if you find out it is too much power in the end, ask gmcharlt or rangi about running some automated testing for koha code on a small part of it :)
09:57 dcook ^^
09:57 dcook vfernandes: I'm not sure. Do those callnum and bc searches take you directly to the items or do they give you result lists?
09:57 * dcook says not really having the time to answer
09:57 dcook Almost done my email...3 hours later...
09:58 vfernandes bc takes directly to the records, callnum give a result list to searches like "PS"
09:59 vfernandes record.abs 995$f barcode, item
09:59 vfernandes i Think this is correct
10:00 dcook UNIMARC?
10:00 wahanui UNIMARC is http://www.ifla.org/en/publications/unimarc-formats-and-related-documentation
10:00 vfernandes yes UNIMARC
10:01 dcook Hmm, I'm not sure. I'm just about to leave for the day (8pm in Australia). I'm sure someone else might know. They'll probably need you to paste the results of your zebra reindexing
10:02 dcook Use the following link for that..
10:02 dcook paste.koha-community.org
10:02 vfernandes i'm getting a error trying to use yaz-client
10:05 vfernandes problem solved...
10:06 vfernandes now I can connect with yaz-client
10:06 pastebot "vfernandes" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "record xml" (68 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/210
10:07 vfernandes look at the last two z:index
10:07 vfernandes the name looks wrong
10:07 vfernandes could be that?
10:12 dcook Overall, it looks pretty good. Some of the indexes look a bit funny to me but I'm not familiar with UNIMARC (I use MARC21) and I'd have to double-check
10:12 dcook It looks your any index has data in it. I think the keyword uses the any index.
10:14 dcook Although it doesn't look like barcode is in the any index..
10:14 dcook <z:index name="Any:w Any:p">0100001491205713ISCTE-IUL0MQ.103 FER*Aná2011-04-290AM_RES2012-06-25ISCTE-IULISCTE</z:index>
10:14 dcook <z:index name="Any:w Any:p">0100001491105714ISCTE-IUL0MQ.103 FER*Aná (Res)2011-04-290AM_RESISCTE-IULISCTE</z:index>
10:14 dcook This seems to have your call number and barcode in it...
10:14 vfernandes 0100001491205713
10:14 vfernandes it's a barcode
10:15 dcook It's probably concatenating all the 995 fields together...
10:15 vfernandes so why I can get any results?
10:16 dcook Probably because each isn't being indexed separately
10:16 dcook Any idea what this is?
10:16 dcook <z:index name="item # just to index every subfield:w">01000014912 0 5713 ISCTE-IUL 0 MQ.103 FER*Aná 2011-04-29 0 AM_RES 2012-06-25 ISCTE-IUL ISCTE</z:index>
10:16 dcook <z:index name="item # just to index every subfield:w">01000014911 0 5714 ISCTE-IUL 0 MQ.103 FER*Aná (Res) 2011-04-29 0 AM_RES ISCTE-IUL ISCTE</z:index>
10:16 dcook That index name looks really strange
10:17 dcook one moment
10:19 vfernandes "item # just to index every subfield" sould be only "item"
10:19 vfernandes ?
10:21 dcook Interesting..
10:21 wahanui well, interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
10:21 dcook Yeah, it should just be item
10:21 dcook However, I think there would still be a bug even if it did just say item
10:22 dcook Quick question, how did you show the indexes in yazclient again?
10:22 dcook I very rarely do that and I"ve only successfully done it once
10:22 vfernandes it's reindexing now
10:22 dcook This might help explain: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Understanding_Zebra_indexing
10:23 vfernandes yaz-client unix:/KOHA_HOME/var/run/zebradb/bibliosocket
10:24 vfernandes then: "base biblio", "form xml", "f @attr 1=1016 "search"", s
10:24 vfernandes connect using the unix file, change to biblios database
10:24 vfernandes then do a search and use "s" to show
10:25 dcook Hmm...that just shows it as marcxml
10:26 dcook Can you do a "list_all" and tell me what shows up for elements
10:26 dcook ?
10:29 pastebot "dcook" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Compare UNIMARC 995 with MARC21 952" (56 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/211
10:29 pastebot "dcook" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Compare UNIMARC 995 with MARC21 952" (56 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/212
10:29 dcook Try commenting out "melm 995 item # just to index every subfield" and reindexing
10:32 dcook Anyway, I really should be running (hours ago). I hope that helps or that someone else is able to help you out
10:33 vfernandes first i'm trying removing without "# just to index every subfield"
10:33 vfernandes ok thanks dcook
10:33 vfernandes dcook++
10:44 vfernandes removing "# just to index every subfield" didn't work
10:52 vfernandes I don't know what I could do now
10:58 vfernandes in yaz-client if I do the search 'f @attr 1=1016 "01000014912"', I get one record
10:58 vfernandes using Koha search in any field I get 0 results
12:03 kf vfernandes: i think there is a bug about item indexing and dom in unimarc
12:03 kf are you using DOM?
12:17 oleonard Hi #koha
12:18 kf hi oleonard :)
12:19 nengard hiya all
12:26 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
12:38 nengard owen that link you put on twitter is for january 9th ...
12:38 nengard oleonard ^
12:39 mtompset Greetings, matts paul_p tcohen nengard. :)
12:39 oleonard Ugh
12:39 nengard hehe
12:39 nengard ugh - i retweeted it :)
12:39 mtompset Greetings, oleonard -- Thanks for the meeting reminder. :)
12:40 paul_p nengard = yes, oleonard don't want anyone forgetting my birthday :D
12:40 nengard awww
12:40 nengard that was sweet of him :)
12:41 mtompset oleonard++ # for being sweet, but more for the meeting reminder. ;)
12:41 tcohen morning #koha
13:06 mtompset Greetings, quoc_uy talljoy Dyrcona.
13:07 quoc_uy hi all
13:07 mtompset There... finally got my patches up. :)
13:08 quoc_uy :)
13:08 talljoy good morning!
13:08 quoc_uy i am waithing for general meeting :), i missed it 2 months
13:09 quoc_uy it's about 5 hours to the meeting, isn't it?
13:09 mtompset Not for another 5 hours, I believe.
13:09 mtompset Yes.
13:09 quoc_uy okie.
13:18 vfernandes kf: yes I'm using DOM
13:23 oleonard Joubu: How can I test the second patch on Bug 10807?
13:23 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10807 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , OPAC: There is no authority search history
13:25 Joubu oleonard: Hi! Did you try to stop zebra?
13:25 oleonard Yes--at least I think I did!
13:26 oleonard Would I have gotten an error on the opac search history page after trying a search?
13:26 Joubu I don't remember exactly, I think the issue is: if a search is launched and zebra returns no result, without this patch I got an error
13:26 Joubu no... If zebra returns undef
13:28 Joubu arf, I don't reproduce
13:35 msaby Greetings, #koha
13:35 msaby I don't have a lot of time
13:36 oleonard Then you'd better ask your question msaby ;)
13:36 msaby I am not here for a question, but an answer ;-)
13:36 * jcamins looks up, expecting to see Cybermen or Daleks chasing msaby. :)
13:37 msaby for vfernandes and unimarc bugs
13:37 msaby DOM indexing in unimarc is broken
13:37 msaby and there is a specif pbm for searching some fields in the item
13:37 msaby I don't know if it can explain vfernandes problem
13:38 msaby I am thinking of bug 9830
13:38 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9830 normal, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Needs Signoff , Some UNIMARC item indexes could be broken whith Queryweightfields syspref
13:39 msaby (the patch is a bit larger than the title of the bug)
13:43 msaby (other bugs about fixing DOM for unimarc are bug 8252 - need signoff - and 7421, signed by kf )
13:43 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8252 critical, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Needs Signoff , Error in DOM biblio for UNIMARC (no range for fields 1xx)
14:01 gmcharlt oleonard++ # meeting reminder
14:02 msaby bye
14:04 jcamins gmcharlt: is there anything specific holding up bug 5202, or just tuits?
14:04 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5202 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Passed QA , Merge authority records
14:04 gmcharlt jcamins: tuits
14:05 jcamins There's nothing on the bug, and I can't remember if you asked me a question that I was supposed to get back to you on.
14:05 jcamins Thanks.
14:06 chris_n gmcharlt: did you have a chance to look at my musings on bug 10821?
14:06 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10821 major, P1 - high, ---, cnighswonger, In Discussion , label pdf adding in strange breaking
14:06 chris_n it look like it boils down to out-of-spec LC numbers to me
14:07 * kf hands gmcharlt a bowl of tuits
14:08 chris_n better be chocolate coated :)
14:08 gmcharlt heh
14:08 jcamins chris_n: don't knock cinnamon cream-coated tuits until you've tried them.
14:09 chris_n jcamins: throw some on the next truck headed down I95 if you don't mind; I'll try them
14:09 gmcharlt chris_n: upon skimming, I suspect that it does indeed boil down to out-of-spec numbers; the work that motivated the introduction of L::C::LC came with specific examples of real live call numbers
14:09 nengard okay .... what are tuits
14:10 gmcharlt nengard: they're round tuits, specifically
14:10 jcamins nengard: ideally they are round.
14:10 chris_n gmcharlt: I'm thinking its a "wont' fix" bug then
14:10 gmcharlt sound it out :)
14:11 kf I will do it, when I get around....
14:11 nengard chris_n please don't say that
14:11 gmcharlt chris_n: a not-likely-to-get-around-to-any-time-soon, at least -- after alll, the architecture does support somebody writing a funky_LCCN sorter
14:11 nengard wait a second - the splitter is adding in characters - it's adding in spaces and dots ... how is that a good thing?
14:12 chris_n I think the odds of being able to parse all sorts of version of LCCNs is remote at best
14:12 nengard then it should go back to the way it was
14:12 nengard cause it worked for most libraries then
14:12 chris_n nengard: that module "normalizes" LCCNs
14:12 gmcharlt nengard: the bug reporter is not following standard LCCN practice -- how is that a good thing?
14:12 gmcharlt I don't mean that entirely seriously, but there is just a bit of GIGO going on here IMO
14:13 nengard yeah, but there are rules that allow for adding prefixes
14:13 nengard and suffixes to your call numbers
14:15 gmcharlt chris_n: nengard: I do see enough here to convince me that a non-normalizing version of L::C::LC->components() is worth asking for -- and I know just the person to bug about it
14:15 nengard chris_n?? :)
14:15 gmcharlt dbwells, actually
14:16 nengard k
14:16 chris_n gmcharlt: the components method could also be made to consider any rules which permit prefixes and suffixes
14:16 chris_n forcing uc should probably be an option in any case
14:17 gmcharlt indeed
14:17 * chris_n always wondered why it seemed that LCCN spine labels were shouting at him
14:18 nengard heh
14:19 chris_n gmcharlt: will you pass on the request or should it be filed as a bug somewhere?
14:20 gmcharlt sec
14:23 jcamins marc8--
14:25 jcamins gmcharlt: I don't suppose you have an example somewhere of using MARC::Batch to convert from MARC-8 to UTF-8?
14:26 gmcharlt chris_n: https://code.google.com/p/library-callnumber-lc/issues/detail?id=7
14:27 chris_n gmcharlt: looks good; did you happen to add a note to 10821?
14:28 chris_n nengard: the other important point this bug brings up is the need of properly setting the call number source at the item level
14:28 jcamins Here it is.
14:28 gmcharlt chris_n: yes
14:28 jcamins I knew there was a one-liner.
14:28 jcamins $record->encoding('UTF-8');
14:28 nengard chris_n - didn't they say that they had it set to LCC?
14:28 chris_n otherwise they are all split as whatever the default CN system is set to
14:28 jcamins Wait... no, that's just the leader.
14:29 chris_n nengard: there are three options at present I think; let me look
14:29 nengard are you saying instead it should be a 'custom'
14:29 nengard There are more than 3
14:29 gmcharlt jcamins: there isn't actually an equivalent of $record->to_charset()
14:29 gmcharlt which is a hole to be filled, yes
14:29 nengard there is Dewey, LCC, Sudoc, Generic ... i think there might be more than that
14:30 jcamins Bah humbug.
14:30 gmcharlt MARC::File::XML does know how to transcode, though, so you can do the iso2709->marcxml->utf8 route that way
14:30 gmcharlt nengard: I think what chris_n is saying is that the call number class is not just a global setting
14:30 jcamins That'll work.
14:30 gmcharlt each item can specify what it's correct call number type is
14:31 chris_n nengard: the underlying code allows for lcc, nlm, ddc, and then falls back to the ccn (custom call number split)
14:31 chris_n the custom simply splits on spaces I think
14:32 * chris_n is not sure what nlm is
14:32 gmcharlt and lcc is the same as nlm (or should be) for splitting purposes
14:32 chris_n it is
14:32 gmcharlt National Library of Medicine
14:32 gmcharlt they use a variation of LCCN
14:33 nengard k
14:33 nengard so instead of LCC everyone should choose CCN if they want it to split the way they expect it to
14:33 Joubu thanks oleonard-away for signing off and the followup!
14:33 nengard which isn't quite right cause it's supposed to split at the dots too
14:34 nengard and you said it only splits at spaces
14:34 chris_n nengard: ccn will split on spaces
14:34 chris_n actually not just on spaces
14:34 chris_n hold on
14:35 nengard :)
14:35 gmcharlt nengard: please don't make a general recommendation for folks to set it to anything other than LCC for the LC call numbers
14:35 gmcharlt that only invites longer term problems
14:36 pastebot "chris_n" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "CCN Split Test" (49 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/213
14:37 chris_n nengard: ccn should not be used as a type
14:38 jcamins Oh man. This file is a mess.
14:38 jcamins ... not that I'm surprised.
14:39 chris_n the way the code is currently written, ccn is a fall back for when lcc or ddc fails to split (which is probably very seldom in reality)
14:39 chris_n but I suppose that we could entertain a system preference which would permit users to cook up their own splitting regexp to be applied if they so chose
14:40 chris_n but that may create more problems than it solves
14:41 gmcharlt hmm
14:41 jcamins Silly chris_n... what could possibly go wrong? (computer explodes in flames)
14:41 gmcharlt a new class_sources.splitting_rule might be a Nice Thing
14:42 gmcharlt (in conjunction with everything that such a column would imply)
14:43 chris_n jcamins: its probably more likely that users would be exploding into flames trying to get their brains wrapped around the proper algorithm :)
14:43 jcamins chris_n: well, maybe.
14:43 chris_n gmcharlt: its probably not a bad idea over all and would lend welcomed flexibility for those who need their particular variation of the theme
14:44 * chris_n imagines dilbert on fire
14:47 jcamins Aleph-- # pretty sure these records came from Aleph.
14:50 chris_n ok, I marked the bug 'wontfix' because the "problem" is really not with our code; added a note of explanation saying as much
14:54 kivilahtio While reading the implementation checklist, I noticed custom patron fields. I remember we loved that attribute, but I am curious whther or not you use SSNs with your patron records?
14:55 kivilahtio do you need to store your patrons SSNs?
14:55 kivilahtio ssn?
14:55 jcamins kivilahtio: I generally try to persuade my libraries not to.
14:55 kivilahtio jcamins: we too, but they don't want to lose the SSN
14:55 kivilahtio I think it has to do with accountability
14:55 jcamins I know of libraries that use extended patron attributes for SSN.
14:56 kivilahtio and the fear that they never can fine patrons who won't return books
14:56 kivilahtio jcamins: yeah, that was our initial plan, but how secure that is?
14:56 jcamins For me, the accountability of having the SSN available for librarians and disgruntled student employees to steal greatly outweighs the accountability of being able to look up SSN.
14:57 kivilahtio jcamins: I guess there is no way of hiding the SSN from unauthorized librarians?
14:57 jcamins It is as secure as your server. It's all available to anyone with the permissions to view it.
14:57 jcamins I don't think so, though I guess there might be.
14:57 kivilahtio jcamins: But you havent conducted any security reviews?
14:57 kivilahtio jcamins: Like purchase a security certificate from a 3rd party?
14:58 jcamins No.
14:58 jcamins I'm not sure if anyone else has either.
14:58 jcamins Maybe ByWater?
14:59 tcohen bug 10405
14:59 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10405 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , User-editable sections should have ids
14:59 kivilahtio jcamins: do you have any idea who would help us make such a security audit?
14:59 kivilahtio jcamins: does the Koha community have a security team
15:00 tcohen jcamins, your patch changes the template's logic in several places
15:00 jcamins kivilahtio: not really.
15:00 kivilahtio jcamins: ok
15:01 jcamins tcohen: yeah, I make several sections appear always.
15:11 jcamins gmcharlt: hey, are we sure that MARC::File::MiJ actually handles non-ascii?
15:12 gmcharlt jcamins: I haven't played with enough to have an opinion -- check with BillDueber in #code4lib
15:15 mtompset But those sections which jcamins made appear always are blank, tcohen. So, it's not really a big deal, is it?
15:19 jcamins gmcharlt: since I know you have been anxiously awaiting the answer, it is "no."
15:20 jcamins Or, at least, it seems to be.
15:20 gmcharlt jcamins: good thing it's only 0.1ish :)
15:21 jcamins Yep.
15:25 jcamins gmcharlt: really using MARC::File::MiJ is just laziness on my part and I ought to be ashamed of myself, or something.
15:26 gmcharlt jcamins: unpack that a little? the flip side is that you are providing valuing beta testing for a new module :)
15:26 gmcharlt *valuable
15:27 jcamins gmcharlt: I need JSON for Biblionarrator, but I'm too lazy to write a node.js module that generates MiJ, so instead I'm uploading all my MARC files to my development server, where I run a tiny script that opens them and spits out MiJ, and download the result.
15:28 * jcamins justifies this absurd process to himself by saying "hey, we're only on version 0.0.4."
15:46 oleonard kf: Does Bug 10850 refer to /cgi-bin/koha/labels/spinelabel-print.pl ?
15:46 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10850 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Give Quick spine label template page its own id
15:47 kf oleonard: yes, I think so
15:48 oleonard Thanks, I see the problem
15:51 magnuse lazy question: how are items marked as "in transit" (in the database)
15:51 magnuse ?
15:54 magnuse or to put it another way: how can i write sql that finds items that are in transit?
15:57 kf transfers table or T
16:00 * oleonard will be back for the meeting
16:06 magnuse kf: T?
16:06 wahanui T is for unit tests like functionality stuffs
16:06 magnuse ooh, there is a meeting?
16:06 kf in the reserves table in status i think
16:06 kf if it's a ohld reserve
16:06 kf transfers tabel for the manual ones
16:09 magnuse kf++ branchtransfers was what i was looking for
16:10 magnuse ah, meeting i 1 hour 50 minutes
16:10 magnuse i might catch that, perhaps
16:10 kf :)
16:30 kf magnuse: sorry, was on the phone typing :) but glad you found it
16:30 * druthb gets out the duct tape, and tapes herself to her chair.
16:31 magnuse druthb: you planning to stick around for the meeting, then? ;-)
16:31 * druthb gets out the Goo-Gone, so she can untape herself and RUN AWAY.
16:31 rambutan funny :)
16:32 druthb I have filled my meeting quota for the day.
16:33 druthb The "protocol" meeting for the cPanel conference was about useless.
16:33 druthb "don't miss the bus, be on time for your preso, wear your fancy polo. oh, and don't pee in the gutter in NOLA. They arrest people for that there.
16:35 druthb (implying, of course, that a) this is a problem, and b) they *don't* arrest people for that in Houston.)
16:36 rambutan I was thinking those same implications :)
16:37 druthb cPanellers have a reputation for consuming lots of alcomohols at these events. "Don't be the story" is the mantra.
17:20 cait everyone get ready - meeting in 40 min :)
17:23 * mtompset braces for impact. ;)
17:24 * druthb hides.
17:38 * druthb makes the popcorn for the meeting, gets a big bowl, and tells mtompset to scoot over n make room for another spectator.
17:39 mtompset Sorry, my thighs haven't shrunk much on my diet yet. :(
17:39 * mtompset scoots over.
17:39 * druthb scrunches in.
17:39 * druthb offers popcorn.
17:40 mtompset Sadly, not on my diet. :( Have an celery?
17:40 mtompset ^an^any^
17:40 druthb hm. Maybe.
17:40 * druthb picks up her cell phone, taps at it for a moment.
17:41 * druthb looks impatiently at the door
17:41 * cait takes the popcorn
17:41 cait sweet or salty?
17:41 * druthb gives the delivery boy the ebil eye as he comes in, with a package of celery sticks.
17:41 druthb sweet-ish.
17:41 * druthb tips the delivery boy, who flees from her wrath.
17:41 * druthb offers mtompset the celery.
17:42 druthb Better?
17:42 wahanui Better is "take cover." :)
17:43 * druthb shoots a rubber band at wahanui.
17:43 oleonard Gonna have to miss the meeting after all guys, my apologies.
17:43 cait druthb: excellent, i don't like salty :)
17:44 druthb I don't like overly sweet, but super-salty is no good, either
17:44 mtompset Yep... of course, I'd offer you a chocolate, but it has to last me until tomorrow. ;)
17:44 druthb oh, no worries. Is the world still turning?
17:44 druthb ….then I still have chocolate.
17:45 * druthb is in a sassy mood, cait; you better watch out.
17:53 * talljoy hides from druthb
17:54 * druthb offers talljoy some popcorn.
17:55 talljoy mmmm....popcorn
17:57 bag yay!!! feels the excitement
17:57 bag oh popcorn! hmm I'm going to go make some
17:57 mtompset I hope it is more meaningful than next, next, next. :)
17:57 cait :)
17:58 tcohen can i add to "coding guidelines" that template plugins should go in a separate commit?
17:59 drojf oops. mailing list fail
17:59 cait tcohen: you mean new plugins?
17:59 tcohen yes
18:00 cait hm does it happen that often?
18:00 tcohen everything seems to depend on course reserves right now
18:00 cait I am a bit confused :)
18:00 cait oh
18:00 cait maybe just ask kyle to split out the template as a patch for 3.12?
18:01 tcohen khall?
18:01 drojf in case someone gets a moderation request for the mailing lists when unlisted addresses are used as senders… sorry, please delete my mail :)
18:01 thd Does anyone remember when we had agreed to schedule a vote on the KohaCon14 bids, now that we actually have two options for a contest?
18:02 drojf thd: beginning of october
18:02 cait drojf does i guess
18:02 cait but maybe discuss at the meeting? :)
18:03 khall tcohen: that's a good idea
18:03 gmcharlt speaking of which, it's time now, so who is moderating it?
18:03 drojf that's a lot of volunteers
18:04 cait i can try - with some help getting the actions and infos in place
18:04 drojf yay cait
18:04 thd I will take a turn one day but my keyboard is barely working at present.
18:04 cait #startmeeting General IRC Meeting
18:04 huginn` Meeting started Wed Sep 11 18:04:41 2013 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:04 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
18:04 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting'
18:04 cait #topic Introductions
18:04 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
18:04 rhcl #info rhcl = Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library
18:05 gmcharlt #info Galen Charlton, Equinox Software, 3.14 RM
18:05 cait please introduce yourself using #info
18:05 nengard #info Nicole Engard, ByWater Solutions
18:05 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany
18:05 mduncan #info Margo Duncan, University of Texas at Tyler
18:05 NateC #info
18:05 * thd is typing in lower case and yet the caps lock key is down. What causes that?
18:05 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand
18:05 khall #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions
18:05 druthb #info D Ruth Bavousett
18:05 meliss #info Melissa Lefebvre, ByWater Solutions
18:05 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba
18:05 bgkriegel #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel, Cordoba, Argentina
18:05 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett
18:05 jwagner #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS
18:05 phred_ #info Fred King, Washington Hospital Center
18:05 tajoli Zeno Tajoli, CINECA, Italy
18:05 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin, Germany
18:05 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
18:05 cait #info Agenda for today's meeting: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_11th_September_2013
18:05 mtompset tajoli: You forgot the #info.
18:06 tajoli #info Zeno Tajoli, CINECA, Italy
18:06 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
18:06 NateC Nate Curulla: Bywater Solutions
18:06 cait maybe that should have been #link :)
18:06 bag #info Brendan Gallagher ByWater
18:06 cait all done?
18:07 tcohen yeap
18:07 cait #topic Announcements
18:07 cait *waits*
18:07 cait no announcements? :)
18:08 drnoe #info David Noe, ByWater Solutions
18:08 NateC I like space
18:08 gmcharlt "... in other news, the sky is blue today"
18:08 cait ok, is chrish around?
18:08 cait bgkriegel?
18:08 wahanui bgkriegel is on a signoff spree
18:08 cait :)
18:09 clint_ #info clintD, Anact, NZ
18:09 bgkriegel yes :)
18:09 cait #topic Update on 3.10
18:09 bgkriegel all is well, a little behind
18:09 bgkriegel but i will catch up
18:09 cait bgkriegel++
18:10 cait thx for your work :)
18:10 cait iwill move to 3.12 then?
18:10 cait #topic Update on 3.12
18:10 cait tcohen: the stage is yours :)
18:10 tcohen 3.12 is getting mature, no big bugs arise
18:11 talljoy #info Joy Nelson ByWater Solutions
18:11 tcohen i plan to cherry-pick dom indexing support for packages
18:11 tcohen but leaving grs1 as default
18:11 tcohen (dom-as-default would be a 3.14 feature)
18:11 cait sounds good to me
18:11 tcohen trying to catch up with master
18:12 tcohen and that's it :-D
18:12 cait thx tcohen - tcohen++ :)
18:12 cait #topic Update on 3.14
18:12 gmcharlt OK
18:12 gmcharlt #info Feature slush remains at 2012-09-25
18:13 gmcharlt #info Feature freeze remains at 2013-10-03
18:13 gmcharlt #info Architectural changes that are still on the table for inclusion in 3.14 are DBIx::Class and some sort of logging module
18:13 gmcharlt #info planning a big push, well, push next week after the QA sprint tomorroow
18:14 cait gmcharlt: can you define feature slush a little? want to prevent any misunderstandings if possible :)
18:14 gmcharlt #info RM emphasis for this release is reinforcing the QA process -- patches must have sufficient review to be accepted, and I'm heavily pushing for unit tests
18:15 cait gmcharlt++
18:15 tcohen gmcharlt++
18:15 gmcharlt cait: feature slush -- any new features that have hit passed QA by that date will be included in 3.14, assuming they don't raise signfiicant QA concerns on my part
18:16 cait thx :)
18:16 gmcharlt new features that have /not/ hit passed QA by feature slush are more liable to be left for the next release; if you want something that misses slush to make it in, you'll need to advocate for it
18:16 thd Why does slush have the name slush?
18:16 gmcharlt a partial freeze, of course
18:17 thd OK
18:17 gmcharlt also, another announcement -- I did not, of course, actually do a tarball of a pre-pre-alpha
18:17 gmcharlt instaed, I'll do so shortly after feature freeze
18:17 * thd was thinking of other domains in which slush is used.
18:17 gmcharlt any questions for me?
18:18 thd What is intended to be logged for a logging feature?
18:18 cait just a thank you for your work gmcharlt++
18:18 tajoli The differce beetwenn slush and freeze ?
18:19 gmcharlt thd: system events, debug info
18:19 gmcharlt essentially, the idea in the patch series for bug 8190, but a version that supports syslog
18:19 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8190 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Add a logging module to Koha
18:19 gmcharlt which is a sine qua non from my POV
18:19 bag gmcharlt: what's the road block for DBIx::Class currently?
18:20 bag is it just getting the DB foriegn keys worked out...
18:20 gmcharlt the current patch series needs some cleanup, and there are some FK to be added
18:20 cait just... :)
18:20 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
18:20 gmcharlt also, the current patch series uses an otion that the DBIC maintainer specifically recommends against
18:20 bag ok subtract just from my statement cait :)
18:20 gmcharlt but be assured, it /will/ be in 3.14
18:20 cait i think it's doable
18:20 bag ok cool thanks galen
18:21 cait gmcharlt: have you seen tajoli's question?
18:21 gmcharlt ah, no, missed it
18:22 tcohen tajoli: any feature that is passed-qa by feature slush is elegible for 3.14, otherwise it isnt.
18:22 gmcharlt I did answer the question about the distinction between slush and freeze, if that's what you're referring to
18:22 cait then I missed it :)
18:22 mtompset frozen out, verses slushing in. :)
18:22 gmcharlt no, looks like tajoli had asked the same question you had asked, cait :)
18:22 mtompset ^verses^versus^
18:23 cait if there are no more questions we can move on?
18:23 tajoli In fact yes, is the same question
18:23 cait #topic QA sprint day
18:23 cait we had a qa team meeting and discussed some ideas on how to get things moving and flowing a bit better
18:23 cait and one of the ideas that came up was a QA sprint day
18:24 cait #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/2013-09-12_QA_Sprint_day
18:24 cait mtj++ has added a wiki page for it and i hope that lots of QA will be done
18:24 cait but right now I think the needs sign off queue needs some work too...
18:24 tcohen sounds great, can we non-QA people help?
18:24 cait and for the big features you want to see moved through qa a second sign off would make help
18:24 cait or third.. fourth...
18:25 cait best with some notes what you looked at
18:25 cait there are some pretty big patches in the qa queue right now that take a lot of time testing
18:26 cait so it's not a GBSD - but with 169 bugs in needs signoff... and 51 of that bugs...
18:26 cait please feel free to test test test everything you can get your hands on :)
18:26 mtompset But will it be coordinated after GBSD's in the future?
18:27 cait it's something new we try out, we will have to see how it goes I think
18:27 tajoli I have an annucement about sign off
18:27 cait I think it actually might have started already in kiribati or so?
18:28 tajoli As CINECA we try to sponsor an our internal IT as 'sign offer'
18:28 cait #info if you care about a feature, don't hesitate to give it another good testing and sign off
18:28 drojf tajoli++
18:28 * oleonard dispatches the QA team to Kiribati in a black helicopter
18:28 tcohen heh
18:29 tajoli this person is working only on bugs in 'Need Sign Off' to test them
18:29 cait tajoli: sounds good
18:29 drojf tajoli: you should probably send the person here
18:29 cait i was going to suggest that too :)
18:30 drojf if there is no language barrier
18:30 tajoli Her name is 'Paola Rossi' <paola.rossi@cineca.it>
18:30 mtompset oleonard has the helicopter to transport the person. ;)
18:30 tajoli She speak Italian and English
18:31 cait tajoli: I think I have seen her name on some patches already?
18:31 tajoli But she doesn't have a big knowldge of Koha
18:31 cait or maybe i confuse her
18:31 tajoli She stritly follow the plan inside
18:32 cait maybe she can note that - or she can drop on irc and ask if there is something she is not sure about
18:32 cait or just note on the bug :)
18:32 tajoli she worked heavly on waterfall metodology
18:33 tajoli so, if you receive an email from her, answer as longer as you can
18:34 tajoli I think that in some month she could stard to write unit test also
18:34 tajoli but not now
18:35 tajoli So if tomorrow you have a simple 'sign off', write me and I send it to her
18:35 cait cineca++
18:35 tcohen cineca++
18:35 tajoli That all folk
18:35 cait any more questions and notes about this topic?
18:35 cait is there something people would like to see given top priority in QA?
18:35 cait your chance ;)
18:36 drojf good qa
18:36 drojf :P
18:36 cait drojf: excellent priority :)
18:36 gmcharlt cait++
18:36 cait ok, i see that nancy has left a note on the wiki
18:36 gmcharlt drojf++
18:36 tcohen packages patches
18:36 gmcharlt tajoli++
18:36 cait tcohen: have been trying, but my vm ... was annoying
18:37 tcohen i'll be around to help on them if needed
18:37 oleonard cait, we contributed money towards Bug 2720, so we're anxious to see that pass
18:37 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2720 enhancement, P3, ---, kyle, Signed Off , Overdues which debar automatically should undebar automatically when returned
18:37 cait will try again soon, but would be nice if someone beat me to it
18:37 cait oleonard: ok
18:38 cait #topic KohaCon2013
18:39 cait #info news from nancy were sent to the mailinglist and are also noted on the agenda
18:39 cait it looks like we need more people reserving rooms at the hotel
18:39 drojf hm
18:39 drojf question
18:39 wahanui question is "What is the meaning of life, the universe and everything?"
18:39 cait so if you are guilty of going to KohaCon but not having done your bookings yet...
18:39 cait yes drojf?
18:39 wahanui drojf is from Germany and developing Koha on a raspberry pi!
18:40 thd The note does not give a reminder of the required number for meeting the hotel conditions.
18:40 cait i think the email had it
18:40 drojf i don't think it is mandatory to sleep in that hotel, is it? so in theory, is it possible that there won't be a conference location if not enough people get rooms?
18:40 thd How many more reservations are needed?
18:40 cait I think they have to pay for the meeting rooms then
18:40 cait that's what i understood
18:41 phred_ ISTR it was 125, with about 100 registered.
18:41 drojf and by they you mean you?
18:41 cait #link http://koha-community.org/koha-community-newsletter-august-2013/#kohacon13
18:41 oleonard As the hosts I think they would have to pay drojf
18:41 oleonard We don't have a mechanism set up to charge attendees
18:42 drojf ok
18:42 cait or look for more sponsors
18:42 drojf iw as a little confused by the calculation of every registration equals a room booked
18:42 thd drogf: The host goal is to break even on expenses. If anything goes wrong, then they loose.
18:43 cait i thnk we can move on?
18:43 drojf yup
18:43 cait #topic KohaCon14
18:44 drojf as you have probably seen, i have sent out another mail. proposals close 15 september
18:44 drojf i set 18 UTC as the time, so there is one
18:44 drojf we have two proposals
18:44 drojf argentina and nigeria
18:44 drojf and i do not expect another one coming up in the next three days, but who knows
18:45 drojf i think that's about it
18:45 cait drojf: 2 will be easy for voting i think?
18:45 drojf one would have been easy :)
18:45 cait true :)
18:45 cait ok, next topic
18:45 tcohen voting?
18:45 wahanui voting is http://ci.openstack.org/meetbot.html
18:45 cait #topic Actions from previous meeting
18:46 tcohen when will it happen?
18:46 cait tcohen: sorry, was too fast
18:46 tcohen np
18:46 cait drojf: have we talked about that yet?
18:46 drojf we said beginning of october. sow e should probably fix that now
18:47 drojf because next meeting will be after that
18:47 drojf how long did we do the last times? open polls for a week or something?
18:48 cait maybe 2
18:48 phred_ Sorry for delay--just found e-mail from Nancy--need 125 rooms booked, didn't say how many had been (as of 28 August)
18:48 drojf what about voting from 23september to 6 october?
18:48 cait sounds ok to me
18:48 tcohen +1
18:49 mtompset +1
18:49 bgkriegel +1
18:49 cait +1
18:49 drojf that would be two weeks and cover the beginning of october part, but would not delay things unnecessarily
18:49 davidnind +1
18:49 cait have we figured out who will set up the vote?
18:49 tajoli +1
18:49 bag nengard can you?
18:49 drojf i can do a limesurvey i guess
18:49 cait cool
18:49 cait drojf++
18:49 bag oh darn she's out
18:50 cait #agreed the vote for kohacon14 will be open from 23september to 6 october?
18:51 cait hm missed to delete the questionmark
18:51 cait #action drojf will set up a limesurvey
18:51 cait ;)
18:51 cait ok, as there are actually no actions left from last meeting it seems
18:51 Brooke 0/
18:51 mtompset Also back under KohaCon related issues, my Filipino colleague is dreaming of how to make a 2015 proposal work. But no promises. :)
18:51 cait i think we can move on and decide a time and date for the next :)
18:52 Brooke isn't next meeting essentially KohaCon?
18:52 cait roughly in a month... before kohacon?
18:52 cait #topic Set time for next meeting
18:52 thd`` Do we want to set a time after the votes on KohaCon14 have been tallied?
18:52 cait Brooke: not everyone is going there - so i think having one before wouldn't hurt
18:52 cait and we are getting closer and closer to release
18:53 cait and deadlines
18:53 cait what about... october 12th?
18:53 cait drojf: which time is next?
18:53 tcohen why not just after kohacon14 voting end?
18:53 oleonard October 12 is a Saturday
18:54 cait oh sory, was looking at the wrong month
18:54 oleonard Wed. 9 October?
18:54 thd`` +1
18:54 tcohen +1 # 9 Oct
18:54 cait +1
18:54 thd`` What hour is next?
18:54 oleonard Where are we in the time rotation? What's next?
18:54 davidnind +1 9 October
18:54 mtompset That works without interfering with the travelling of those going to KohaCon.
18:54 talljoy +1
18:54 gmcharlt +1 10/9
18:54 cait i asked drojf - didn't work :)
18:55 davidnind 10:00 UTC
18:55 cait sounds about right
18:55 cait ok
18:55 mtompset +1 October 9.
18:55 cait #info next meeting will be on 9th October, 10 UTC
18:56 cait thank you all for attending :)
18:56 bgkriegel cait++
18:56 cait go testing patches!
18:56 Brooke thanks for chairing. *sucker* ;)
18:56 mtompset cait++ # thanks for chairing the meeting.
18:56 drojf sorry, was in the kitchen :)
18:56 davidnind cait++
18:56 talljoy cait++
18:56 gmcharlt cait++
18:56 cait #endmeeting
18:56 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Sep 11 18:56:19 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
18:56 huginn` Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/general_irc_meeting.2013-09-11-18.04.html
18:56 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/general_irc_meeting.2013-09-11-18.04.txt
18:56 huginn` Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/general_irc_meeting.2013-09-11-18.04.log.html
18:56 drojf cait++
18:56 rhcl cait++
18:56 tcohen cait++
18:57 * thd`` tries to recover from multiple identities.
18:58 druthb cait++
18:58 cait karma! :)
19:00 cait meliss: just noted your name in the meeting logs - welcome :)
19:01 meliss thanks, cait
19:01 cait :)
19:12 clint_ quit
19:19 bag @later tell rangi - hey man shoot me a ping when you get in today :) Thanks
19:19 huginn` bag: The operation succeeded.
19:25 * druthb blames Jesse.
19:25 Jesse Hiya druthb
19:26 Jesse always blaming someone arent you ? :P
19:26 druthb usually.
19:26 Jesse :)
19:47 cait bag: I think he is travelling - judging from twitter
19:47 bag ah failed to watch twitter
19:48 bag darn thanks cait figured something like that
19:48 cait was just reading there this minute :)
19:50 * cait starts QA Sprint Day by looking at 7180
19:59 rambutan ping jcamins
20:00 * jcamins waves.
20:00 rambutan for the offline module, there's nothing intuitive to indicate to users to log out
20:01 rambutan there's just the usual "log out" but that's if you are connected to koha live
20:01 jcamins Hmmm.
20:01 rambutan wonder if there should be (or is?) some way to indicate that?
20:01 jcamins That's a good point.
20:02 jcamins It didn't occur to me because I am used to the "dead circ desk connection" situation, where logging off is unnecessary.
20:02 jcamins Of course, the problem is if there's an offline log off feature, there's no way to log back on if you realize you didn't mean to.
20:03 jcamins Hmm.
20:03 quoc_uy So i missed irc-meeting one more time...
20:03 cait hm how woud you name a section on the wiki page for 'who is working on what right now'?
20:04 jcamins What about a message "Are you sure you want to log out? Once you log out, you will not be able to log in again until you have a connection to your server."
20:04 quoc_uy hi jcamins, how are u?
20:04 jcamins Not bad. How about you?
20:05 jcamins cait: "Who is working on what"?
20:05 quoc_uy i'm fine
20:05 quoc_uy i was out 3 hour, can't get meeting on 18.00
20:06 jcamins That's okay.
20:06 jcamins That's the disadvantage with the fixed times.
20:06 cait i called it: What we are working on right now...
20:06 jcamins cait: that works.
20:06 rambutan jcamins: no, thinking of bookmobile stops...
20:07 rambutan when you complete transactions at one stop/location, the users aren't sure what to do, instinctively they want to "logout" before shutting down the computer...
20:07 jcamins Ohhh.
20:07 jcamins I see.
20:07 rambutan and going to the next stop, where they want to "logon" again, lather, rinse, repeat
20:08 jcamins So maybe the best option would be something that checks if you're online, and if you're not says "sorry, you cannot log out while offline"?
20:09 rambutan or something that simply says: "there is no need to logout in the offline module, simply close the browser?????) .... not sure
20:09 jcamins I guess I could also just hide the logout button.
20:10 rambutan now having said all that, we did this testing again and can't find the transactions to sync "not found". What did we do before to get them back?
20:10 rambutan closing the browser and restarting the computer nukes them
20:11 jcamins Do you have some sort of privacy plugin that wipes the browser's settings?
20:11 rambutan no
20:11 jcamins And you tried clicking the "Upload transactions" button even though it says "No transactions to upload"?
20:12 rambutan yea, and it says no transactions found, just like before
20:13 jcamins Last time all we had to do was click that button, and then go to "pending offline circulation actions."
20:15 rambutan that's what I thought too, but it doesn't work this time. Maybe we need the new set of files...
20:16 jcamins I suspect you may, but I have a thought about what the problem is.
20:16 jcamins If you go to the home page of your staff client, are you logged in?
20:18 rambutan well, standby. We decided to do a reboot and now we have to wait for MS to install 5 updates. <bad bad words invoked here>
20:18 rambutan but yes, we were logged in when attempting to sync
21:12 jcamins rambutan: has it restarted?
21:13 rambutan We're working on plan c ATM
21:13 jcamins Okay.
21:13 rambutan We rebooted into linux, installed newest FF, and are now downloading records
21:14 jcamins Was it Windows before?
21:17 rambutan yea
21:17 jcamins That shouldn't make a difference, as I made it a point of testing under Windows, but if you have anti-virus, that may do things to it.
21:18 rambutan hummm, wouldn't have thought that would nuke records
21:19 jcamins I'm wondering if some sort of "internet protection thing" might clear out the web browser to "protect" you.
21:19 rambutan did you test using win 7?
21:19 jcamins Yup.
21:19 jcamins And Microsoft Security Essentials.
21:19 jcamins I shall check the version of FF.
21:21 jcamins 23.
21:23 jcamins That should be pretty recent, though possibly not the latest.
21:24 jcamins That _is_ the latest.
21:24 jcamins I just checked.
21:45 jcamins rambutan: how about this for the logout issue: http://screencast.com/t/bFBpR0EL7Z
21:46 jcamins I tried a bunch of variations on "sorry, you can't log out because you're offline" dialogs, but they felt counterintuitive because why am I looking at a logout button if logging out isn't permitted?
22:13 rambutan jcamins: yea, I like that!
22:14 jcamins rambutan: excellent.
22:14 jcamins You're still on 3.10.something, yes?
22:16 rambutan yea 3.10.03
22:16 rambutan BTW, we've confirmed the transactions load fine on linux (Mint), tomorrow I'm going to work more w/ J on the windows side, but now I'm less concerned about it
22:17 jcamins Do you have any anti-virus?
22:18 jcamins I can't explain exactly why anti-virus would cause an issue, but my gut instinct is that I may have overlooked more aggressive anti-virus systems.
22:18 rambutan Kaspersky
22:18 rambutan That's one of the things we'll chekc
22:18 rambutan check
22:24 eythian hi
22:25 rambutan hey eythian
22:25 wahanui eythian is probably an expert bot trainer
22:29 wizzyrea oh he's so much more than that. :P
22:32 rambutan he seems to be a world traveler
22:33 eythian I go around it at least once every 24 hours.
22:42 wizzyrea that's the sun dear.
22:43 wizzyrea oh wait lol.
22:43 wizzyrea sh.
22:43 wizzyrea no talky.
22:43 wizzyrea I suppose you do go around the *axis* of the earth every 24 hours >.>
22:44 * wizzyrea just feels lucky not to be flung out into space.
22:44 wizzyrea Thanks Gravity!
22:45 eythian Geocentric, much? :)
22:46 wizzyrea sh
23:02 eythian http://youtu.be/hKNDml12Big
23:03 dcook So I click on a "Braille" facet and the first book that comes up is illustrated...
23:03 jcamins dcook: that's kind of ironic.
23:03 dcook hehe
23:04 dcook Actually, this catalogue is quite weird..
23:05 dcook Braille is a subfacet of Book...but other items than just books have the Braille subfacet...
23:05 dcook Or rather, are retrieved by clicking the Braille subfacet
23:05 wizzyrea ah that is hilarious eythian
23:05 dcook Book (14) Braille (26)
23:05 dcook O_o
23:08 dcook Oh well. It's not Koha. I don't really care atm.
23:08 jcamins Heh.
23:09 dcook Just realized the title of that "braille" book was "How to lie with statistics"
23:09 * dcook looks around for the tv cameras
23:11 dcook Aha...there is a braille version
23:11 dcook But it doesn't show that edition when you click through from the braille facet...
23:11 * dcook shrugs
23:32 tcohen mtompset: i've just attached a new, squashed version of my patches for bug 10733
23:32 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10733 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Memcached on package installs
23:34 tcohen I fixed the namespace name as u suggested
23:36 jcamins Wow. That trailer was great.
23:38 tcohen is there one for life of brian?
23:46 mtj_ hi all
23:46 * mtj_ waves to #koha
23:49 mtj_ i should hopefully be able to do some QA stuff today, if anyone has suggestions...
23:55 jcamins Shari wants custard. Does anyone have any fast, foolproof stove-top custard recipes they recommend?
23:56 jcamins wizzyrea: by "does anyone" I mean, "does wizzyrea?" :)
23:56 jcamins (if anyone else has a favorite recipe, I'd use that, too, I just think wizzyrea has made fast, foolproof stovetop custard before)