Time Nick Message
00:01 ibeardslee dcook: .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2mmD9ubjzM
00:05 tcohen interesting it is from 1979
00:05 dcook I'll never think of that expression the same way again
00:05 ibeardslee :)
00:06 dcook Interesting how 2013 doesn't seem all that different from 1979 in some ways
00:06 tcohen the only nz music i knew was Bic Runga
00:08 dcook I think my only exposure to NZ music has been from #koha and Lorde :p
00:09 dcook Not that I'm criticizing either
00:09 ibeardslee A lot of videos on here .. http://www.nzonscreen.com/watch/music-video
00:09 dcook Flying nun?
00:10 ibeardslee Kiwi record label
00:10 dcook Ahh
00:11 tcohen hey, I also have a Powderfinger CD :-D
00:11 tcohen its australian
00:11 tcohen didn't remember it was from Oceania :-P
00:13 * dcook had no idea that Savage Garden was Australian until his wife lectured him one night on the bus :p
00:13 dcook I just figure everything is American
00:14 dcook Lots of good music in Australia though
00:14 dcook Although sometimes hearing a singer sing and then speak...is so bizarre
00:14 ibeardslee heh .. mind you I have been surprised on more than one occasion .. oh that's a kiwi band? I think that sometimes we just forget how awesome we are ;)
00:14 dcook They'll have an amazing clear singing voice, but have the thickest accent when speaking
00:14 dcook ibeardslee: Same thing happens to me with Canada ;)
00:15 dcook Actually...
00:15 * dcook tries to think of a good Canadian musician
00:15 tcohen is "Ladies and gents" an australian expression? or just powderfinger?
00:15 dcook I'm sure they exist
00:15 tcohen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fBbKtq_Li8
00:15 ibeardslee dcook: Neil Young
00:15 dcook That's what I hear :p
00:15 dcook I haven't listened enough to Neil Young to really make an informed opinion
00:15 dcook Actually, there are heaps of Canadian bands I like
00:15 dcook Maybe
00:16 dcook Mostly recent ones
00:16 dcook We try to pretend that Justin Bieber is American...
00:16 tcohen not-ironic Alanis?
00:16 dcook Hmm, didn't know that Michael Bublé was Canadian...
00:17 dcook Gotta love Alanis ;)
00:17 dcook "Bublé had a strong passion for ice hockey and wanted to become a professional ice hockey player for the Vancouver Canucks growing up..."
00:17 dcook Funny how almost every Canadian male celebrity says that...:p
00:17 tcohen http://mashable.com/2013/07/19/ironic/
00:20 tcohen dinner time, bye dcook, and listen to Sigur Ros, icelandic post-rock band.
00:21 dcook @later tell tcohen Who doesn't enjoy Sigur Ros? :P
00:21 huginn` dcook: The operation succeeded.
00:22 dcook Maybe I'm not listening closely enough to that redux but...I still don't think it's ironic
00:23 dcook Mmm maybe it is
00:23 jcamins dcook: the redo actually is ironic.
00:23 jcamins A lot of the ironic bits are kind of slurred, though, in order to fit them in.
00:26 dcook I'm not sure that I get some of their examples either
00:26 jcamins Oh?
00:27 dcook The smoking one and the couple's therapy one
00:27 dcook You stop smoking, get a sign, start smoking, but can't smoke, because of the sign.
00:27 dcook Maybe I"m being too literal in how I'm interpretting "start smoking"
00:28 dcook I'm going to go do something productive now though :p
00:29 dcook Hmm quick question
00:30 dcook When fixing something something during the QA process...you keep your new versions as signed off still?
00:30 jcamins That's correct.
00:30 jcamins And non-ironic.
00:30 dcook hehe
00:30 dcook Thanks
00:34 dcook gpl3?
00:34 wahanui i heard gpl3 was rangi's default
00:34 dcook gpl3?
00:34 wahanui gpl3 is rangi's default
00:34 dcook Hmm
00:34 dcook I know I have an example somewhere..
01:19 mtj dcook: -> http://git.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=LICENSE
01:20 dcook Yeah, I saw that before.
01:20 dcook Thanks though :)
01:20 dcook I found a script that had the more recent snippet as well
01:20 wizzyrea I thought the whole deal of the song ironic was that it wasn't actually ironic.
01:20 wizzyrea like that was the point from the get go.
01:20 dcook Hmm
01:20 dcook Could be
01:21 dcook That sounds familiar
01:21 jcamins wizzyrea: might be. I heard the original song only after the fixed version.
01:22 dcook O_O
01:22 * dcook wonders where jcamins was in the '90s
01:22 jcamins dcook: avoiding bad music.
01:22 jcamins :P
01:22 dcook There was good music in the '90s?
01:22 dcook :p
01:22 jcamins No.
01:22 jcamins So I had to avoid it all. :P
01:26 * dcook wonders which is more difficult...writing a unit test for Breeding.pm or just re-writing how remote Z39.50 searching is done...
01:26 dcook Then writing the unit test
01:26 jcamins dcook: six or one half dozen.
01:26 dcook Seems like it
01:26 jcamins Except actually, you have to write an integration test first either way.
01:27 dcook Hmm?
01:27 dcook jcamins: Integration test?
01:28 jcamins dcook: yeah, something to demonstrate that the entire Z39.50 stack is working both now and after you're done.
01:28 dcook Hmm
01:30 dcook Note to self: Don't add new features to Koha.
01:31 dcook Well, not really.
01:31 dcook I'm just grumpy.
03:03 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
03:12 dcook hey mtompset
03:12 wahanui somebody said mtompset was disliking finding bugs while testing.
03:12 mtompset Greetings, dcook.
03:12 mtompset dcook?
03:12 wahanui i think dcook is missing part of that original link due to a smiley face that comes up in dcook's IRC client
03:12 mtompset Yep, the response for my name is still true.
03:13 mtompset dcook... care to confirm a bug for me?
03:14 mtompset you need a biblio record with multiple items some of which are hidden using OpacHiddenItems. :)
03:14 mtompset look it up in the OPAC. normal view... partially hidden as expected. MARC view... fully listed.
03:16 dcook Hmm, I might have something that fits the bill
03:18 dcook Yep. Certainly a bug in 3.8.0.
03:18 dcook I don't think I have anything that could work at the moment on my dev site and might be a bit too tired to make anything
03:18 mtompset That's okay.
03:19 mtompset So, basically... the person who implemented OpacHiddenItems... failed to get opac/opac-MARCdetail.pl
03:19 mtompset probably because their head is exploding like mine reading the code. ;)
03:19 mtompset It's data structure intensive reading.
03:39 dcook Yeah, I get the head exploding thing :p
03:46 ducnq hello
03:46 ducnq I'm new member
03:46 ducnq nice to meet all you
03:48 eythian hello ducnq
03:49 ducnq hi
03:49 wahanui bonjour, ducnq
03:49 ducnq I'm starting to learn about koha
03:49 ducnq so need to help from all of you
03:51 wizzyrea shoot :)
04:22 * mtompset rummages around for the skittles gun. ;)
04:22 mtompset Have a great day (24 hour period), #koha. :)
04:23 mtompset Bye, dcook wizzyrea ducnq.
04:23 wizzyrea later :)
06:31 reiveune hello
06:31 wahanui hey, reiveune
06:42 cait hm is git down?
06:47 cait hm of coruse
06:47 cait course
06:48 cait it starts raining when i have to leave to work... doesn't it always?
07:26 rangi yep looks down to me
07:26 rangi evening
07:26 kf morning
07:28 rangi can't ssh to it either, gonna need a kick i think, probably OOM
07:28 kf OOM?
07:28 kf ah, out of memory?
07:29 rangi yep
07:29 rangi [off] hmmm how to reply to someone, who has answered his own question, when asking the question
07:30 kf [off] hm?
07:32 rangi [off] koha mailing list
07:34 kf [off] hm must have deleted it already
07:39 rangi didnt miss anything
07:46 rangi [off] trademark hearing on 23rd october, hopefully this will be the end of it
07:47 rangi [off] i checked with lawyers i was allowed to say that
07:50 kf [off] fingers crossed - hope it ends well
08:57 liw rangi, good luck!
09:00 * kf waves to liw
09:04 kf good morning Viktor
09:05 Viktor Morning kf!
09:14 kf hi mtj and connor_dewar :)
09:14 connor_dewar Hello :) could you give me a hand with installing koha?
09:15 kf where are you stuck connor_dewar?
09:17 connor_dewar well i ran the code: ./koha_perl_deps.pl -m -u to check for perl dependincies and it gave me this : (ill try use the past page)
09:18 kf have you isntalled the koha-common package?
09:18 kf ah, I will wait for the paste .)
09:18 kf paste?
09:18 wahanui paste is, like, found at http://paste.koha-community.org
09:20 connor_dewar its going a bit slow , probably my internet
09:22 connor_dewar try this: http://pastebin.com/9S4eHRvA
09:23 connor_dewar so i see im missing/arnt updated those modules but i am unsure how to get/upgrade them
09:24 kf Data::Pagination is ony for SOLR
09:24 kf you don't need that
09:25 kf Archive::Extract is also only used by one feature.... i think the plugin system, so you can ignore it for now
09:25 kf and the last one is I think used for the test suite maybe
09:25 kf have you tried apt-get install libtest-www-mechanize-perl?
09:25 connor_dewar no ill try it
09:25 kf often you can add lib at the beginning and -perl at the end :)
09:27 connor_dewar http://pastebin.com/zPnm4NZv
09:27 connor_dewar already newest version?
09:27 kf ah maybe your version is a bit different to the listed requirement
09:27 kf all those shoudl not give you problems
09:28 connor_dewar oh cool :)
09:28 kf i think you can safely continue :)
09:28 connor_dewar thanks will get back to you :)
09:35 Herwig Hey koha ... question where does the name Koha stands for ... ? or is it just a name
09:36 connor_dewar i beleive a koha is a donation?
09:36 vfernandes hi :)
09:36 kf Herwig: it's a word from the maori language (connor can probably explain better)
09:37 Herwig ow :)
09:37 Herwig ok
09:37 kf so not an abbreviation for something, i have heard the translation gift too
09:37 Herwig have ademo of our koha this afthernoon so i just ask ;)
09:38 connor_dewar yes to the extent of my knowledge its just a donation.Quote: koha (noun) gift, present, offering, donation, contribution.
09:38 kf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koha_%28custom%29 - not sure how accurate :)
09:38 vfernandes today when trying in koha 3.12 to checkout an item to a patron with charges the system gives an empty error message
09:39 vfernandes the checkouts are blocked to patrons with fines
09:39 connor_dewar words from the creators mouth : a gift with strings. our gift to the world :)
09:39 vfernandes there is any bug related to this
09:39 vfernandes »
09:39 Herwig thx for the info i'm reading ;)
09:39 vfernandes ?
09:40 kf Herwig: there is also a nice article about koha ... let me find it
09:40 Herwig oki
09:40 kf http://journal.code4lib.org/articles/1638
09:40 kf and http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/The_Koha_Logo_:_Origins_and_Explanation :)
09:40 connor_dewar Mum also said they chose just because they needed a name and it was a nice word :)
09:41 * kf thinks connor_dewar is cheating :P
09:41 kf ;)
09:43 connor_dewar haha i have info from the creator in the room why not use it :)
09:43 kf :)
09:44 kf hm seems git is still ... on vacation
09:46 connor_dewar hmm possibly an issue . i ran: make test . and it said all tests passed but the atricle says i should get code similar to this. but mine is not simmilar at all :/
09:47 rangi the more people hit it, the harder it is to get back
09:47 rangi re git
09:47 * kf stopped - only clicked on a link then realized why it didn't work
09:49 connor_dewar what i shpouldve got: http://pastebin.com/Uq0vBq8t . what i did get: http://pastebin.com/tij0kXpK
09:51 connor_dewar just the last page of what i did get
09:59 kf sec
09:59 kf hm but it ended with all tests successful?
10:00 kf ah the first is the end of make install
10:00 kf the other make test i think
10:03 connor_dewar ohkay
10:03 connor_dewar ahhh that makes sense
10:06 vfernandes anyone had my problem?
10:06 kf vfernandes: i have not seen any bug report yet
10:07 kf vfernandes: it should not happen - but maybe check the fine related system preferences to se fi they make a difference? there are quite a few related to blocks in circ and messages
10:09 vfernandes related to fines I have another problem
10:10 vfernandes manually I done a checkout where the due date was yesterday... the script fines.pl run everynigth, but the fine wasn't calculated, and it should be 0.50€
10:11 vfernandes I think the days aren't being correctly calculated
10:11 vfernandes maybe because of the hours...
10:11 kf what's your grace period? what's your fine interval?
10:12 kf is the system prefrence finesmode activated?
10:12 vfernandes grace period = 0, fine interval = 1... the due date was 2013-09-09 23:59 and the script runned at 2013-09-10 01:00
10:12 drojf hi #koha
10:13 kf vfernandes: hours or days as unit?
10:13 vfernandes days
10:14 kf what about finesmode?
10:14 kf hi drojf :)
10:14 vfernandes finesmode?
10:14 kf system preference
10:14 wahanui system preference is, like, ReservesMaxPickUpDelay
10:15 vfernandes calculate and charge
10:15 kf what happens when you run fines.pl with -v?
10:16 vfernandes it writes the log file, but gives a little erro with Koha::Calendar
10:16 vfernandes wait... I'm running it
10:19 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
10:19 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 15.2°C (12:13 PM CEST on September 10, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
10:26 connor_dewar so the instruictions said to go to:http://127.0.1.1:8080/ and i got: http://pastebin.com/aFhWWh6i
10:28 kf hm
10:29 vfernandes kf - no errors this time
10:29 kf connor_dewar: not sure, maybe you got your connection data to the database not quite right
10:29 connor_dewar hmm ill have a look at what i did and see
10:30 connor_dewar i didnt get any other errors
10:30 connor_dewar which is odd. .. i think
10:31 kf so far othing needed the database
10:31 kf I think
10:33 connor_dewar appears it might be a login issue? it aborted at Auth.pm
10:34 vfernandes kf - fines.pl is calculating one day less
10:35 vfernandes for example I have a patron with 1.5€ of fines where the due date is 2013-09-05
10:36 kf connor_dewar: database most probably really
10:36 kf maybe when you created the database you forgot to grant permissions?
10:36 kf first thing i would try is using mysql -u <user> -p <database> and see if you can log in
10:36 kf then you know the right connection data
10:37 kf and can check if that's what is in the koha-conf.xml file
10:37 connor_dewar hmm i did this: GRANT ALL ON kohadata.* TO 'koha'@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY '{koha user password}';
10:37 kf when you ran the makefile, did you give kohadata as the name of your db?
10:38 kf you did a dev installation?
10:38 connor_dewar i did give kohadata and i did use dev
10:38 kf did the mysql command work and connect?
10:38 kf mysql -u koha -p kohadata
10:39 connor_dewar yup that connects fine
10:39 kf did you run the export commands at the end of the make install run?
10:39 kf ok
10:39 kf next i would check the koha-conf file
10:39 kf it's in .... koha-dev/etc? i think?
10:39 connor_dewar oh . i didnt run them'
10:39 kf can#t check currently
10:40 connor_dewar i thought it just said id need them later
10:40 kf i think run now, but I guess it won't fix
10:41 kf did you have koha installed on this machine before?
10:41 connor_dewar koha httpd conf or koha conf xml
10:41 kf the xml one
10:41 kf there are multiple passwords in there - os have to be a bit careful to see the right one
10:43 connor_dewar http://pastebin.com/UbTm1Sua here it is
10:43 connor_dewar what am i looking for?
10:46 kf look for mysql
10:47 kf i think your user and password are probably wrong:
10:47 kf <user>kohaadmin</user><pass>katikoan</pass>
10:47 kf it has kohaadmin - you said koha earlier :) - I think maybe modify and run the grant permissions again
10:47 kf hm not sure really right now
10:48 kf if the mysql user has to be a real user... so maybe it's easier to change the conf file to match
10:48 connor_dewar GRANT ALL ON kohadata.* TO 'koha'@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY '{koha user password}'; this thing?
10:48 mtj_ heya kf, connor_dewar
10:49 connor_dewar hey
10:50 mtj_ kf, thanks for helping me with the qa-sprint wiki page
10:51 mtj_ hey connor, have you been experimenting more with pygame?
10:52 connor_dewar i have but mainly iv been expanding my coding horizons
10:52 connor_dewar with some php and ruby
10:52 connor_dewar and trying to set up koha
10:54 connor_dewar Seeya everyone iv gota get to bed. Thanks #kf
10:54 kf ah now he was a little too fast for me :)
10:58 mtj_ yeah, too quick :)
11:00 kf mtj++ - thx for setting up a page
11:01 kf mtj: just wanted to get it out fast now - because it's only 2 days away :)
11:02 kf time for lunch - bbl :)
12:24 oleonard Hi #koha
12:26 kf hi oleonard :)
12:27 * oleonard is curious about Bug 10856 too. Joubu?
12:27 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10856 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Improve the previous and next items on the shelf browser
12:28 oleonard Same as Bug 5500?
12:28 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5500 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , shelf browse changing bib record
12:29 oleonard That looked like one of those post-library-interview/training bug batches :)
12:30 Joubu oleonard: I will try to explain in a comment asap
12:35 kf Joubu: the one with the warning about item already checked out is something one of our libraries have asked for as well :)
12:43 tcohen morning #koha
12:44 kf good morning tcohen :)
12:49 tcohen so there is a QA party kf?
12:49 kf yes - thursday :) bring cake!
12:54 kf oleonard-away has gone to bake cake and cookies for the event - I think
12:55 tcohen :)
12:58 druthb o/
12:58 kf hi druthb :)
12:58 * druthb wriggles happily
13:00 tcohen hi druthb
13:01 druthb Hi, tcohen. :)
13:03 * druthb spent some time working on her KohaCon preso last night.
13:03 druthb Hi, talljoy! :)
13:03 tcohen 'preso' like 'jailed'
13:04 talljoy hi druthb!!
13:04 druthb tcohen: presentation—abbreviation, sorry. There's a couple of ways I can take this one, and I've not decided which way to go.
13:05 talljoy giving a speech druthb?
13:05 tcohen impress.js
13:05 druthb talljoy: at KohaCon. :)
13:05 talljoy oh yay. i'll get to see you then!!
13:05 talljoy how long will you be out there?
13:06 druthb 17th thru 20th. Just a few days.
13:06 talljoy funny we have to go 1500+ miles to see each other when we live just 250-300 miles away!!
13:07 druthb True 'nuf. And I'll be driving by, even closer, this weekend, on my way up to Denison.
13:07 talljoy ooooo romance is in the air.
13:07 tcohen what car druthb?
13:08 druthb tcohen: I have a 2011 Nissan Sentra. It *likes* the highway. good fuel mileage.
13:08 tcohen heh
13:08 tcohen nice car
13:09 druthb The speed limit on much of the stretch between Houston and Dallas is 120 kph, and my engine will be turning around 2000 rpm for much of that way. An easy cruise.
13:10 druthb talljoy: I'll be brining my pens with me, so if you want to do some gift-shopping, you'll have your chance.
13:11 jcamins Mmm.
13:11 jcamins Brined pens.
13:11 druthb s/brining/bringing/
13:11 * druthb chucks Skittles at jcamins.
13:11 jcamins druthb: I vote for bringing brined pens.
13:11 jcamins For people who chew on their pens.
13:11 jcamins Actual flavor!
13:12 druthb lol
13:12 * druthb wonders how one would do that. Like fumed oak, maybe?
13:12 tcohen is git down?
13:12 talljoy smoked pens? with some bacon flavor?
13:12 jcamins tcohen: seems to be.
13:14 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
13:14 druthb morning, mtompset! :)
13:14 mtompset And now I know you are a skittles bot, druthb. :P
13:14 * kf is in a bug filing frenzy - also known as working through my training notes :)
13:14 druthb ?
13:15 druthb kf++
13:15 * mtompset cheers kf on. :)
13:15 mtompset druthb: Your reply was too fast for a human. ;)
13:15 druthb :P
13:16 * druthb thinks someone oughta sponsor mtompset coming to KohaCon, so she'll have someone to throw Skittles at.
13:17 kf mtompset: she has that on a shortcut I think *rollseyes*
13:17 druthb kf: shhhhhhh! Givin' away my secrets.
13:18 mtompset druthb: I would not be adverse to that idea. :)
13:19 druthb :)
13:19 mtompset It would a good opportunity to meet people, and participate in the hackfest portion. Everything else library related would probably go over my head though.
13:22 druthb My company (which doesn't have a thing to do with libraries, actually) is a sponsor of the con already; never know, you might find some odd way to get to go, if you get creative about it.
13:25 vfernandes another problem: in koha 3.12 i can renew books that are on hold
13:25 vfernandes in other versions the renews where blocked
13:26 vfernandes there is another syspref?
14:00 blou good morning!
14:00 blou ... afternoon... evening
14:00 kf hi blou
14:01 blou hi!
14:01 mtompset blou: Greetings! I prefer good day, because the 24 hour sense of the word day is always correct. :)
14:01 oleonard "Hello" is also nice.
14:02 mtompset Yes, greetings which are unlinked to time work very well too. :)
14:02 blou But "good morning" is more jolly. Always a nice sense of hope and sunshine for the day coming ahead
14:02 oleonard Who do we have to poke to ask to poke the git server?
14:02 mtompset I agree, blou. :)
14:02 kf hm git still not recovered :(
14:03 mtompset good thing I'm testing tarball. ;)
14:03 kf oleonard: rangi already did this morning until late
14:04 jcamins Someone at ByWater. Maybe talljoy can help?
14:05 jcamins I guess everyone else is off for the primaries.
14:05 kf primaries?
14:05 jcamins kf: primary elections are today.
14:05 mtompset elections for what?
14:05 jcamins All contested positions that are up for election this year.
14:05 jcamins I presume.
14:06 * jcamins refuses to register a party affiliation, so he's never voted in a primary.
14:08 talljoy perks up at her name
14:09 jcamins Joubu: I think the issue with 10860 (pardon the pun) is a language issue.
14:09 talljoy let me see if I have a git expert in the house.
14:10 jcamins "In-house use" usually means "this item was used in the library without being checked out."
14:10 kf and the first one is hiding ;)
14:10 jcamins I'm trying to think of a general term for what you're describing. I'd usually call it "supervised use," but that's not really general.
14:11 kf reading room use here i guess
14:11 kf Lesesaalausleihe
14:11 kf not really general too i guess
14:11 jcamins kf: gesundheit!
14:11 kf pf.
14:11 * kf promises to talk fast and german to jcamins at kohacon!
14:12 mtompset And the language joke falls flat. ;)
14:14 druthb uhoh. jcamins, you're in trouble.
14:14 druthb An upset German is a fearsome thing.
14:15 kf my brain falls back to german when i get overwhelmed anyway :)
14:17 khall looks like git.koha-community.org is down, I gave it a reboot, but it failed: startpar: service(s) returned failure: git-daemon git-ultrasphinx git-poller ... failed!
14:19 kf that doesn't look goo
14:19 kf d
14:19 mtompset kf: Most people fall back to their native tongue when they are overwhelmed.
14:19 khall yeah, I know bywater hosts the server, but I'm not sure who adminitrate it
14:19 * chris_n notes git is down too
14:19 chris_n ping seems ok
14:19 chris_n but the site will not load up
14:20 chris_n mtompset: interesting observation
14:20 khall yeah, git-daemon isn't starting
14:20 mtompset chris_n: Personal experience too. :)
14:21 chris_n seems many people's native language is the same or very similar... ;-)
14:21 mtompset I need to practice my Tagalog skills more for when that happens. :)
14:21 * jcamins just loses any coherent language selection when overwhelmed... bits of Arabic and Russian start appearing.
14:23 kf http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Website_Administration#git.koha-community.org
14:24 kf I think we shoudl update this list
14:24 kf hdl might not be available
14:24 gmcharlt back
14:24 gmcharlt khall: need a hand?
14:24 kf hi gmcharlt :) we were just looking for you :)
14:24 khall gmcharlt: most definitely!
14:25 gmcharlt khall: what's the capsule summary?
14:25 khall it looks like both gitolite and gitorious have been installed on this server
14:25 druthb @quote random
14:25 huginn` druthb: Quote #7: "Snow_Fox: a rift opens in space the information is shuffled to dev_hyperspace rift then closes" (added by wizzyrea at 03:28 PM, June 18, 2009)
14:25 khall gmcharlt: git-daemon won't start
14:25 khall startpar: service(s) returned failure: git-daemon git-ultrasphinx git-poller ... failed!
14:26 khall I can't even tell what's being used, and what is just cruft ; )
14:28 * kf hands out cookies
14:28 gmcharlt khall: hmm, it's not letting me ssh in
14:28 khall try ssh'ing to 50.56.246.75
14:29 khall I wonder if we have a dns issue as well
14:29 khall or only a dns issue and the startup error is normal
14:29 gmcharlt khall: so 174.143.233.17 is no longer its IP address?
14:31 khall investigating
14:32 khall my bad, I was on the wrong git server!
14:35 khall back up!
14:35 khall I couldn't shell in, so I gave it a boot and now it's looking good to go
14:35 * gmcharlt will look at logs and do a post-mortem
14:35 gmcharlt khall: thanks for bouncing it
14:35 khall Good idea, np!
14:35 oleonard khall++
14:35 oleonard gmcharlt++
14:40 mtompset khall++
14:40 mtompset gmcharlt++
14:44 gmcharlt a single IP address in Pakistan made 79 attempts to download tarball snapshots from gitweb
14:44 gmcharlt that's what killed it
14:46 * oleonard shakes his fist and shouts taaaarbaaaaaallll!
14:48 gmcharlt @quote add oleonard shakes his fist and shouts taaaarbaaaaaallll!
14:48 huginn` gmcharlt: The operation succeeded. Quote #276 added.
14:49 kf gmcharlt++ khall++
14:50 mtompset 79 attempts to download a tarball?!
14:50 kf hope the person does not do that again
14:51 mtompset Is there a url? We should find the person that pointed to grabbing a tarball snapshot from gitweb. Perhaps a set of bad instruction exists out there.
14:51 * gmcharlt has disabled the snapshot-download feature in Koha's gitweb
14:51 * oleonard mails 79 LiveDVDs to Pakistan
14:53 mtompset That would probably be useful if you had an address to send them, oleonard. :)
14:53 oleonard Details, details.
14:53 * blou reading the wikis to know how to start contributing
14:55 oleonard blou: What are you hoping to work on?
14:55 mtompset Isn't Oak from pakistan?
14:55 blou What is 3.13(14) roadmap? Looking for release schedule but can't find it.
14:55 oleonard roadmap?
14:55 oleonard Hm, I thought wahanui had something for that.
14:56 mtompset schedule?
14:56 wahanui hmmm... schedule is not fixed yet..there has been some delay from the client side..
14:56 mtompset releases?
14:56 wahanui i think releases is the type
14:56 mtompset release?
14:56 wahanui release is, like, the 22nd nz time every month
14:58 jcamins release schedule?
14:58 wahanui release schedule is probably http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Proposal_for_RM_3_14_gmcharlt#Timeline
14:58 blou oleonard: very varied. We have changes done to various libraries. We want(need) to streamline our process. Bringing what we can to the community (and official release), isolate the rest on branches following LATEST version
14:59 oleonard blou: Who is "we?" Sorry if you already said and I missed it.
15:00 kf blou: generally sounds good and welcome
15:00 blou oleonard: sorry, we are "inlibro"
15:00 oleonard Okay, thanks
15:00 blou I work with ebegin
15:00 kf blou: got starting points might be getting familiar with bugzilla - logging what you want to contribute ther eor look if someone else is already working on it
15:00 kf hm good starting point... i think you already know about git probably :)
15:01 blou kf: sure, that's the plan.
15:01 gmcharlt postmortem sent
15:01 blou kf: but we wanted to make our branch on "latest". Trying to determine what is "latest" right now, for one.
15:02 kf blou: develop always against the master branch
15:02 kf not a specific version
15:02 blou kf: lot of our changes have since been done (differently) by community. We need to go through all that (some customers are on 3.4) and make sense of it before we even file our first Bugzilla
15:03 kf some information on the workflow is in git, i don't know how to link to the developers handbook - but you can see it on the bottom of the page: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
15:03 kf blou: feel free to ask lots of questions :)
15:03 mtompset workflow?
15:03 wahanui hmmm... workflow is described at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Bug-enhancement-patch_Workflow
15:03 kf coding guidelines?
15:03 wahanui coding guidelines are http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines
15:04 blou kf: thanks. First ones are the hardest. I'll ask a lot of them in the coming weeks.
15:04 blou that's a bot, right?
15:04 kf yep
15:04 kf wahanui and huginn are bots
15:04 wahanui OK, kf.
15:04 kf wahanui and huginn?
15:04 wahanui somebody said huginn was a bot, not a person.
15:05 * oleonard asks wahanui why he doesn't just turn the turtle over
15:05 jcamins turtle?
15:06 jcamins wahanui: turn the turtle over?
15:06 wahanui jcamins: no idea
15:08 oleonard Sorry, Blade Runner reference
15:10 mtompset http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083658/quotes
15:11 mtompset They're just questions, Leon. In answer to your query, they're written down for me. It's a test, designed to provoke an emotional response... Shall we continue?
15:16 oleonard I wonder if bkriegel is testing the new OPAC theme with a system preference setup I haven't anticipated
15:16 * oleonard can't figure out why it is failing for him
15:17 kf hm maybe with translations
15:17 reiveune bye
15:18 kf sometimes if you have a broken cookie that could do that
15:19 oleonard kf: Brilliant--Indeed I can replicate that error message if I try to switch languages
15:19 oleonard kf++
15:20 kf lol
15:20 kf yeah, but struggling with her CSS!
15:23 kf oleonard++ :)
15:26 mtompset Given the MARCXML for a biblio, is there a way to know the koha itemnumbers in the 952 fields?
15:27 jcamins @marc 952
15:27 wahanui The 952 field is used by Koha to store item data in MARC21 and is described at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Holdings_data_fields_%289xx%29
15:27 huginn` jcamins: unknown tag 952
15:29 mtompset Hmm... okay... let me check that idea... opac/opac-MARCdetails.pl is not operating on OpacHiddenItems system preference.
15:29 mtompset Hence the question, because the MARCdetails.pl grabs data differently than details.pl
15:30 mtompset @seen tcohen
15:30 huginn` mtompset: tcohen was last seen in #koha 2 hours, 18 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <tcohen> is git down?
15:41 oleonard @seen mtompset
15:41 huginn` oleonard: mtompset was last seen in #koha 10 minutes and 20 seconds ago: <mtompset> @seen tcohen
15:41 oleonard Darn, I wanted the nested @seen to work too
15:41 mtompset oleonard++ # for evil ideas. :P
15:51 jcamins oleonard: right now I'm working on something where Koha might actually benefit from a templating system like handlebars.
15:51 oleonard Oh yeah?
15:51 jcamins I'm writing a template for displaying MARC-in-JSON.
15:52 oleonard Sounds diverting ;)
15:52 jcamins And it strikes me that A) this is a heck of a lot friendlier than XSLT to the novice, B) more amenable to in-database storage, and C) could enable fully client-side display, for the cataloging module, or faster paging.
15:53 kf time to have sushi!
15:53 kf bye all :)
16:03 gmcharlt jcamins: what template language are you proposing to use?
16:04 jcamins gmcharlt: I'm actually not proposing to use any, but oleonard had asked me a few weeks ago if there was any use for a client-side templating language like handlebars or mustache, and I had stated categorically that there was not.
16:04 jcamins Well, stated categorically that I couldn't think of any.
16:05 jcamins I, personally, am using Handlebars.
16:05 gmcharlt I would actually suggested template toolkit, were I to do it from scratch nowadays -- not client based, of course, but TT cetainly has everything needed, there's nothing per se that prevents templates from being stored in the database, and if paired with future work to use TT for notice tempalte and the like ... would have the end result of using a single template system for almost everything
16:06 gmcharlt well, replace "from scratch" with "now that we using TT for the page templates..."
16:06 jcamins Right.
16:07 jcamins Given that we already have TT, I see little point in switching, but a template system that also works on the client side _could_ be used in Koha for record rendering.
16:43 mtompset ... yes... me like idea. :)
17:40 mtompset jcamins: Remember how the word plug-in confused me with respect to Koha plugins vs. cataloging plugins? It would seem that is what happened with VKV. He just sent me a thank you for my comment.
17:40 mtompset Is there a better way to express the lack of connect without changing the word plug in?
17:41 jcamins mtompset: probably by using the term "value builder" for the cataloging module, since that's what they're actually called.
17:42 mtompset Greetings, nengard. :)
17:42 nengard hello
17:53 * druthb 's mind has been boggled.
17:54 oleonard ?
17:54 druthb Third-party dev trying to integrate their stuff with cPanel…they've been told "no, it doesn't work like that" *at least* thrice…and so they asked again…this time, to *marketing*.
17:55 druthb (their plugin is trying to retrieve other people's passwords so you can do something on behalf of another user.)
17:55 druthb Wonder who they'll ask next…the janitor?
17:56 mtompset other people's passwords?!
17:56 oleonard Retrieving others' passwords... Never a good idea, or never EVER a good idea?
17:56 druthb yep.
17:56 mtompset Sounds like malware waiting to happen.
17:56 druthb Never *ever ever* a good idea.
17:57 tcohen jcamins, is there a way to do multi-language cataloguing with MARC?
17:57 jcamins tcohen: yes. Step 1, throw out MARC. Step 2, use a sensible metadata schema.
17:57 jcamins Or, to put it differently...
17:58 jcamins Not pleasantly.
17:58 jcamins You can use 880s, but they're supposed to be used only for different scripts.
17:59 * mtompset cheers, "YAY! I think I have something working for MARCview that respects OpacHiddenItems."
18:01 tcohen heh
18:02 tcohen i as thinking of writing a configurable value builder plugin to target TemaTres vocabulary servers
18:02 jcamins I think that would be *awesome*.
18:02 jcamins ... and not unlike...
18:03 tcohen unlike...?
18:03 jcamins [off] http://theplowcreative.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/lipstickpig.jpeg
18:03 jcamins Took me a little while.
18:03 jcamins (seriously, though, I think it's a good idea)
18:05 jcamins (even if I feel obliged to make snarky comments about MARC)
18:05 oleonard I don't like using the word "biblio" in the staff client to refer to a title/bibliographic record/thing
18:05 oleonard ...but what is the better term, if any?
18:06 jcamins oleonard: are we really using "biblio" in the UI?
18:08 oleonard I'm pretty sure there are instances where we do. Looking for a good argument for not adding another.
18:08 oleonard Maybe, "biblio is not a word?"
18:08 jcamins That sounds like a pretty strong argument.
18:09 oleonard Would you vote for "title" jcamins?
18:09 oleonard "record?"
18:09 jcamins I think probably "record" because of translation issues.
18:09 oleonard Good point.
18:09 jcamins "Title" sounds better to me in English, but I don't think it works in other languages.
18:11 oleonard "Patron already has an item from this record checked out."
18:13 mtompset "Patron has already checked out one of these items"?
18:13 mtompset No need to reference biblio or record.
18:13 jcamins mtompset: except then there's no referent at all.
18:13 jcamins oleonard: let's consult cait.
18:14 jcamins cait: We're discussing that sentence. In particular, we're wondering if putting "title" in there instead of record would be reasonably translatable.
18:15 druthb jcamins++ # consulting someone who actually translates about translation issues
18:15 cait ?
18:15 cait which sentence?
18:15 * cait is still thinking about suhi mostly
18:15 oleonard "Patron already has an item from this title checked out."
18:15 druthb mmmm….sushi...
18:15 mtompset Title fits more nicely in the sentence.
18:15 cait i like title
18:15 cait or record
18:15 oleonard I don't think there is a way to make that sentence sound good.
18:16 cait i will translate it as Titel anyway :P
18:16 mtompset Record sounds too logical structure-ish.
18:16 cait hm one item of this title?
18:16 cait oleonard: propose a new one? :)
18:17 cait Der Benutzer hat bereits ein Exemplar dieses Titels ausgeliehen....
18:17 * tcohen grumbles as more and more patches depend on 9394
18:17 oleonard I would love to toss that into the English translation, cait, and see how long it takes for someone to complain.
18:18 cait as it#s normally me complaining about translatability issues... that would be a nice change :)
18:18 druthb As paul_p said in Mumbai, "We could complain about it…that's what we do, because we're French." lol
18:22 oleonard "Patron already has copy of this title checked out" <-- less precise but more understandable?
18:27 mtompset Is this covering multiple copies of the same book, or multiple volumes in the same series, or both?
18:27 jcamins Both.
18:28 cait has a?
18:28 oleonard Yes of course
18:28 cait mtompset: i think it doesn't make a different - item on record
18:28 oleonard mtompset: Bug 10859
18:29 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10859 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , Alert if a patron already has an issue for the same biblio
18:29 cait mtompset: in germany for example we don't put multivolumes on the same record, every volume gets its own record - it would only happen for serials
18:29 cait not sure about unimar
18:29 cait c
18:33 mtompset How are multivolumes different from serials?
18:34 mtompset Or more properly what is a serial and what is a multivolume?
18:34 mtompset I'm not a library geek, forgive my ignorance.
18:34 oleonard Multi-volume: encyclopedia. Serial: Magazine.
18:35 mtompset Okay, that makes sense, thanks.
18:36 mtompset oleonard++ # for succinctly clarifying the difference between multivolumes and serials.
18:37 oleonard Of course a better librarian will quibble with the oversimplification ;)
18:38 mtompset sort of like calling all malware, trojans, etc. viruses for non-computer people. :)
18:40 mtompset okay... question... should I really split a one line bug fix into a seperate report and create a bug that depends on another?
18:40 jcamins If you want it to go in, yes.
18:40 cait what kind of bug fix?
18:40 mtompset C4::Items ... missing "use YAML qw/Load/;"
18:41 cait how does the problem show?
18:41 jcamins It should be require YAML.
18:42 jcamins Also that.
18:42 wahanui also that is a giant undertaking
18:42 mtompset Either works. I don't care. It just blows up triggering the "can't do the YAML::Load" code in the GetHiddenItems() when patching opac/opac-MARCdetail.pl
18:43 * druthb pokes wahanui with a pointy stick.
18:43 druthb hm.
18:45 druthb wahanui: botsnack annoying plugin developers.
18:45 wahanui :)
18:45 mtompset druthb: Did they contact the janitors this time? ;)
18:46 druthb nope, but a search has determined that they have seven open tickets across our two ticketing systems, all on this issue, targetted at different groups.
18:46 druthb Three of which have been closed, all with the same answer.
18:47 cait it's a bad idea what you are trying to do there?
18:48 mtompset okay...OpacHiddenItems...
18:48 mtompset find an entry with some hidden and some not hidden items.
18:48 druthb They're trying to use someone else's login credentials. Wondering why they can't get them.
18:48 mtompset Look at OPAC view, MARC view, and ISBD view.
18:49 mtompset OPAC view respects OpacHiddenItems.
18:49 mtompset MARC view does not.
18:50 mtompset And I haven't even figured out wat ISBD view is supposed to be doing.
18:50 jcamins Display ISBD. :P
18:50 mtompset with respect to ITEMS.
18:50 mtompset Silly, jcamins.
18:52 oleonard ISBD's job is to sit there and say "Anyone want to use ISBD? ... Anyone? ..."
18:52 cait hm to clarify - that was my guess for the tickets druthb was talking about
18:53 cait and sounds like i got i almost right? :)
18:54 * mtompset laughs, "Seriously, does anyone use it?"
18:54 jcamins mtompset: apparently someone does. There was a message on the list about it recently.
18:54 jcamins I don't remember exactly when.
18:55 cait and regularly someone asks to print out result lists in isbd
18:57 mtompset But in the OPAC?
18:57 cait i had people complaining about incorrectness in the isbd view
18:57 cait i think some might copy it for use in academic papers/citing
19:04 oleonard Here's another case where the term "biblio" needs a better term: The new staff client search history feature separates search history items into two tabs, "biblio" and "authority"
19:05 oleonard "Delete your current biblio history" ... "Delete your current bibliographic search history?" instead?
19:07 tcohen why do i read "You must define a budget in Administration" if i already have?
19:07 jcamins Because you're logged in as the system user.
19:08 tcohen :-D
19:09 tcohen thx
19:09 oleonard Two search history tabs, "Bibliographic" and "Authority" ? Any opinions?
19:10 patron what's an authority?
19:10 tcohen heh
19:10 oleonard It's in the staff client gmcharlt
19:10 gmcharlt oleonard: browse, maybe?
19:11 gmcharlt oleonard: ah, sorry, missed that context
19:11 oleonard Bug 10862
19:11 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10862 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Add an search history for the staff interface
19:11 gmcharlt yeah, in that case, bib/authority seems fine to me
19:11 tcohen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIVHNylH1Mk
19:11 oleonard gmcharlt: I'm trying to suggest something besides "biblio" as the term to use
19:14 gmcharlt catalog?
19:14 wahanui catalog is no longer broken
19:17 oleonard Is an authority search not a search of the catalog?
19:22 * oleonard_ takes the opposite position as oleonard, whatever that position is.
19:23 cait maybe catalog and authority?
19:23 cait lol, now i scrolled down.. :)
19:25 oleonard_ I don't know if oleonard's question is a valid one, but I for one think all his opinions are terrible.
19:26 oleonard That's right oleonard_, you run!
19:27 * cait fixes 2 tiny bugs and is happy
19:29 * cait switches to QA mode
19:30 oleonard jcamins: Do you have a vote? "Catalog" or "Bibliographic" ?
19:33 jcamins oleonard: I prefer catalog.
19:33 oleonard Okay, that's a clear majority
19:37 tcohen bye #koha
19:43 rangi http://www.kiva.org/team/koha
19:43 rangi and morning
19:43 cait morning rangi
19:44 cait @wunder Konstanz
19:44 huginn` cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 11.3°C (9:40 PM CEST on September 10, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady).
19:44 rangi @wunder nzwn
19:44 huginn` rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 15.0°C (7:00 AM NZST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Rain. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
19:50 rangi plus windy
19:50 druthb rangi: I'd love to see our Kiva team at 100 loans by the end of the year! Only 9 to go!
19:51 rangi yep
19:54 rangi http://www.eifl.net/news/new-award-creative-use-ict-public-libraries
19:55 rangi some of the koha users around the world should totally apply for this
19:59 rambutan EIFL seems to be a European organization/program?
20:00 jcamins rambutan: not really.
20:00 jcamins I mean, based in Europe, but they were working with Venezuela in 2007.
20:27 oleonard Bye #koha
20:27 mtompset jcamins: I know you said require, but rangi said use yesterday. I put up the a line patch. It's a case of eyeballing, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know how to trigger it with the current code. bug 10872 if anyone is interested in commenting on it. :)
20:27 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10872 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , C4::Items.pm has YAML::Load in GetHiddenItems but lacks use or require
20:28 jcamins mtompset: use will also work. I favor require because obviously it is used very infrequently.
20:29 mtompset Actually, opac-detail uses GetHiddenItems() regularly now, but I think other use statements load modules that end up using YAML.
20:31 cait mtompset: i hope it only uses it if there is actually something in the parameter?
20:32 mtompset I didn't optimize GetHiddenItems.
20:32 mtompset If that is what you are asking about.
20:40 cait hm.
20:45 mtompset There... added the optimization.
20:45 mtompset Tweaked the bug report.
20:56 cait @later tell magnuse http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/9148120/The-Fox-isn-t-even-Ylvis-best-music-video
20:56 huginn` cait: The operation succeeded.
20:57 mtompset Saw that yesterday.
20:58 mtompset I like the song. What does the fox say?
21:36 tcohen bootstrap opac?
21:36 cait bootstrap?
21:36 wahanui an up to date demo of the Bootstrap OPAC can be found at http://responsive.mykoha.co.nz - it's tracking from oleonard's branch bootstrap-opac on gitorious. Bug reports should be filed on bug 10309.
21:36 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10309 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , New OPAC theme based on Bootstrap
21:37 tcohen thanks cait
21:45 tcohen mental note: ctrl-r service <enter> might not restart ther service you expect
21:46 mtompset Well, the long day is over. Now for the long night. Have a great day, #koha.
21:46 jcamins Hehe.
21:55 cait hm sleep... interesting concept
21:55 cait good night :)
21:58 eythian http://uksg.metapress.com/content/f195g8ak0eu21muh/?id=f195g8ak0eu21muh <-- how meta!
22:04 wizzyrea right - kindly let me know in the future if the bootstrap responsive demo gets stuck in maintenance mode ;)
22:05 wizzyrea golly that's purty
22:13 wizzyrea it shouldn't though - I just fixed my script. But do @later me if you find it busted.
22:43 jcamins wizzyrea: you'll be glad to know that Shari has been converted to a dyed-in-wool Whovian.
22:46 wizzyrea :)
22:56 jcamins Plantains, potatoes, and rosemary or sage. How should I combine them?
22:56 jcamins I'm thinking sauteeing will work well.
22:57 jcamins And leaning towards using the rosemary rather than the sage.
22:59 jcamins Oooh.
22:59 jcamins Plantain bruschetta.
23:03 tcohen never used salvia
23:04 jcamins It's good.
23:04 jcamins It adds body to soups.
23:05 eythian also, involuntary vision quests if you get the wrong one
23:06 tcohen heh
23:16 tcohen is there any difference between texlive 2012 and 2013? (besides the version number heh)
23:20 jcamins tcohen: directories have been reorganized.