Time  Nick         Message
01:04 rangi        @quote random
01:04 huginn`      rangi: Quote #35: "<sekjal> it seemed like a good idea at the time...." (added by jwagner at 06:58 PM, September 17, 2009)
02:58 rangi        @quote get 273
02:58 huginn`      rangi: Quote #273: "rangi: The main thing I came to realise is -- 'Your cataloguing standards are bad, and you should feel bad' - which translates to - 'friends don't let friends use RDA'" (added by wizzyrea at 01:04 AM, August 30, 2013)
02:59 rangi        ibeardslee: ^^
02:59 dcook        hehe
02:59 wizzyrea     your good ones always end in 3
03:19 ibeardslee   rangi: is that in relation to that other discussion?
03:20 rangi        that was in relation to the 'dont design a cataloguing standard thing, when stephen said think of yourself as a librarian'
03:20 ibeardslee   ahh
03:34 eythian      wahanui: two kinds of people
03:34 wahanui      eythian: i'm not following you...
03:35 eythian      wahanui: two kinds of people is those who belive in false dichotomies, and everyone else.
03:35 wahanui      eythian: bugger all, i dunno
03:35 eythian      wahanui: two kinds of people is those \who belive in false dichotomies, and everyone else.
03:35 wahanui      OK, eythian.
03:35 dcook        hehe
03:50 wizzyrea     10 kinds of people are those who understand binary, and those who don't.
04:24 eythian      http://www.artvcancer.com/product/what-s-that-thing-he-s-on <-- wizzyrea
04:25 wizzyrea     hehe
04:34 dac          Hmm
04:34 dcook        yata!
05:31 dcook        PHP...you make me a little crazy...
05:31 dcook        hey ya cait :)
05:32 dcook        Actually, maybe it's just the code I'm looking at right now which is mindboggling bad...
05:32 cait         hi dcook
06:31 cait         bbl :)
06:32 dcook        ta cait :)
06:32 rangi        https://twitter.com/ranginui/status/374781442825256961
06:33 reiveune     hello
06:33 wahanui      hello, reiveune
06:33 cait         lol
06:33 cait         no idea what accessit is
06:34 dcook        Me either
06:34 * dcook      is looking up info
06:35 dcook        So far I'm getting a buzzwords and pure marketing.
06:35 cait         hm yeah and microsort
06:35 cait         microsoft
06:35 cait         but i have to go :)
06:35 cait         brb
06:35 rangi        its some nz schools thing
06:36 rangi        http://www.accessitlibrary.co.uk/
06:36 dcook        Yeah, that's the link I'm reading now
06:36 dcook        Visiting rather
06:38 rangi        im never really one for feature vs feature comparisons, specially when its apples to oranges, like free software vs proprietary
06:38 rangi        features are for today, freedom is forever
06:39 dcook        True that
06:41 dcook        Not really digging their website. It's very  much "Buy our software. It's on the Internet!"
06:41 dcook        I don't know. Once you go open source, I don't know why you'd want to go back.
06:59 gaetan_B     hello
07:20 * kf         waves
07:21 rangi        hi gaetan_B abd kf
07:21 kf           hi rangi :)
07:25 dcook        Hey ya drojf
07:25 dcook        Night everyone else
07:25 drojf        good morning #koha
07:25 drojf        dcook is too fast for at this time of day
07:26 kf           :)
07:26 kf           morning drojf
07:26 kf           did you write your 3 pages?
07:26 rangi        hi drojf
07:26 drojf        hi kf and rangi
07:26 drojf        i wanted four ;) i think i got more but i did not latexify it yet
07:27 kf           i just wanted to be nice ;)
07:28 drojf        :)
07:33 rangi        gaetan_B: can you get croinuts in marseille ?
07:33 gaetan_B     croinuts ?
07:33 rangi        its a cross between a donut and a croissant
07:33 gaetan_B     o_O
07:34 gaetan_B     never heard of those
07:34 gaetan_B     i'll look out for them then !
07:34 rangi        http://www.bordeauxbakery.co.nz/home/
07:34 rangi        they are really really good :)
07:34 gaetan_B     i'm in paris so it might be easier to find them here
07:34 rangi        ahh true
07:35 rangi        it's lucky that bakery is not on my way to work
07:35 rangi        or i would eat them every day
07:37 gaetan_B     is it new zealand english or are they actually writing english in the french style
07:37 gaetan_B     "our dear customers"
07:37 gaetan_B     ?
07:38 rangi        english in the french style :)
07:38 rangi        i think they only moved to nz about 5 years ago
07:38 gaetan_B     ok :)
07:39 rangi        http://www.lacloche.co.nz/  <-- this is my favourite french cafe in wellington
07:41 kf           rangi: if you ate them every day i would be worried about your health
07:41 kf           but i bet they are delicious
07:42 kf           all evil things are :)
07:42 drojf        "the Cronut (the name is trademarked)". so "croinuts" is the free and open source bakeware version?
07:42 rangi        must be
07:43 drojf        :)
07:45 drojf        'cronuts are "a bold step forward for pastry,"' <-- rofl
07:46 gaetan_B     actually the idea of deep frying a croissant is quite outrageous if you ask me :D
07:46 rangi        hehe
07:46 rangi        paul_p: are you on the code4lib mailing list?
07:47 paul_p       hi rangi. Yes I do, except I don't read all the messages, there are too many
07:47 rangi        http://www.mail-archive.com/code4lib@listserv.nd.edu/msg20174.html
07:48 paul_p       lol :D
07:49 kf           paul_p: guess you have to come up with a plan on how to import french cheese into US now - although I think they probably don't let you in with dangerous things like that :)
07:49 rangi        oh yes
07:49 paul_p       strange, I have no message since aug 28th
07:49 rangi        http://www.mail-archive.com/code4lib@listserv.nd.edu/msg20175.html
07:50 paul_p       kf = yes I will. I already tried in 2009, and having some cheese properly packed is OK. at least it was for this man that was on the borders ;-)
07:50 rangi        :)
07:51 kf           paul_p: i might try swiss chocolate - even if i am not directly in switzerland - but maybe it counts that you can just cross the border from the inner city :)
08:00 drojf        [off] lol. they delayed the opening of berlin's new airport again. won't be done in 2014. i had a flight booked from there to kohacon in edinburgh. :D
08:01 kf           [off] heh
08:33 drojf        @wunder berlin, germany
08:33 huginn`      drojf: The current temperature in Alter Schlachthof, Berlin, Germany is 16.9°C (10:30 AM CEST on September 03, 2013). Conditions: Light Drizzle. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady).
08:33 rangi        @wunder nzwn
08:33 huginn`      rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 10.0°C (8:00 PM NZST on September 03, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 6.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Steady).
08:40 kf           @wunder Konstanz
08:40 huginn`      kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 17.7°C (10:40 AM CEST on September 03, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.36 in 1028 hPa (Steady).
08:40 * kf         wins
10:54 vfernandes   hi :)
10:54 vfernandes   guys i'm having a strange problem in koha 3.12
10:56 vfernandes   if I try to add one item to one migrated record the items cataloguing fields appear
10:57 vfernandes   if I create a new record, when trying to add new items the items cataloguing fields are hidden
10:57 vfernandes   what could be?
10:59 vfernandes   wait... my bad :/ the models are different and the subfields are invisible in the editor
11:40 samueld      hi everybody :-)
11:42 samueld      i've a question: when i enabled the system preferences "patronimages", photo of borrower can be imported in koha but where these photos are located in koha? Where i have to define the source where i dowload photos?
11:50 vfernandes   they are saved in the database
11:51 vfernandes   patronimages table or something like that
11:51 kf           samueld: there is a tool for mass uploading and you can upload the photo from the patron record
11:51 kf           samueld: there is no automated download
11:52 kf           samueld: the photos are stored in a database table linked to your borrower record, i think it's patronimages
11:53 vfernandes   for mass uploading you need to have a zip file with the images, where each image needs to have borrowernumber as name
11:53 kf           oh sorry vfernandes - i missed your answer
11:54 kf           should read more carefully
11:54 vfernandes   kf I've already solved my problem
11:55 vfernandes   the subfields where hidden in one framework
11:55 vfernandes   thanks anyway :)
11:56 samueld      thank you vfernandes :-)
12:32 tcohen       morning #koha
12:35 tcohen       @later tell dcook, please share your merge. it looks like the ajax call is not given a json content-type
12:35 huginn`      tcohen: The operation succeeded.
12:49 druthb       o/
12:52 tcohen       hi druthb
12:53 druthb       hi, tcohen. :)
12:53 kf           hi dc
12:53 kf           hi druthb and tcohen
12:54 tcohen       #koha: is HTML5 stuff like file drag and drop acceptable for the staff interface?
12:54 tcohen       (cover images upload)
12:55 tcohen       please, don't flood the IRC with your responses :-P
12:55 tcohen       hi kf
13:06 kf           tcohen: i thik jcamins did something with drag and drop for the opac plugins
13:06 kf           i am a bit worried about accessibility - not sure if you could do a fallback?
13:07 tcohen       we currently have a way to upload cover images on the tools section
13:08 tcohen       a fallback mode can be done, using a simple file upload dialog i guess
13:12 kf           if there is another way that seems ok, but i am not really an expert
13:12 kf           file upload sounds good too
13:15 jcamins      I don't really see any problems with accessibility.
13:16 kf           cool :)
13:16 kf           hm
13:16 jcamins      If your browser doesn't support HTML5, you're going to have problems no matter what.
13:16 kf           someon else having problems accessing git?
13:17 kf           ah now it worked :)
13:26 kf           powerpoint--
13:27 tcohen       impress 4.1 worked great for me
13:36 kf           tcohen: the problem is always the drawings and diagrams for me
13:37 mtompset     Greetings, #koha.
13:38 kf           tcohen: using existing slides
13:38 mtompset     Greetings, kf tcohen lds. :)
13:44 druthb       Hi, mtompset! :)
13:45 mtompset     Greetings, druthb. :)
13:45 tcohen       hi mtompset
14:27 McCloud      Is anyone here familiar with how Git or GitHub is set up during the Debian package install process?
14:30 mtompset     I thought it was on the wiki page.
14:31 mtompset     oh... packages don't set up git.
14:32 mtompset     git?
14:32 wahanui      hmmm... git is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
14:32 mtompset     That page is probably best for you, if you intend to install a development system.
14:33 mtompset     packages?
14:33 wahanui      i heard packages was at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian
14:33 mtompset     That page is best if you are doing a production system installation. :)
14:33 kf           McCloud: do you want to do development?
14:40 McCloud      I'm trying to understand this concept of version control system on my Debian system, compared to say a Ubuntu system. I basically want to know if setting up Debian installs Git or is it set up during the install of Koha?
14:40 jcamins      McCloud: no. Ideally installing Koha for production should never involve version control.
14:41 jcamins      And development is not particularly tied to the Linux flavor, though you'll have a lot more luck with with Koha using Debian/Ubuntu/Mint than using Fedora/CentOS/RHEL.
14:41 kf           McCloud: you only need git if you want to do local changes/development.
14:43 McCloud      thank you
14:46 jcamins      McCloud: there is a tool you can use to convert a package installation to use git, if you want to do development while still having all the scripts that come with the packages.
14:47 mtompset     gitify?
14:47 wahanui      gitify is at https://github.com/mkfifo/koha-gitify
14:47 mtompset     I see someone did program it. :)
15:13 * McCloud[A] is now away - Reason : Auto-Away after 30 minutes
15:37 gaetan_B     bye !
15:55 drojf        evening #koha
15:55 kf           evening drojf
15:56 drojf        hi kf
15:58 druthb       hi, drojf! :)
16:08 tcohen       hi drojf
16:09 drojf        hi druthb and tcohen
16:19 reiveune     bye
16:26 tcohen       eythian++ # new packages built
16:36 mtompset     evening, drojf. Greetings, nengard.
16:37 nengard      hiya
16:44 kf           bye all - cya later
16:45 druthb       Hi, nengard! :)
17:02 mtompset     YAY! Self-rolled 3.12.4 works in my QA system. :)
17:12 mtompset     or not...
17:12 mtompset     Hmmm...
17:13 mtompset     When you upgrade a packages system... how do you update the koha-conf.xml file?
17:15 tcohen       you don't mtompset
17:15 mtompset     Okay, manual fix the file it is. :)
17:15 tcohen       on some ocassions I printed a message on the koha-upgrade-schema run
17:17 mtompset     Where is the default plugins directory supposed to be?
17:18 tcohen       packages install?
17:19 mtompset     Yes.
17:19 mtompset     It seems related to bug 9890 in part.
17:19 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9890 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Pushed to Stable , Fix the new plugin system for package installs
17:19 tcohen       /var/lib/koha/$name/plugins
17:20 tcohen       i know :-P
17:21 tcohen       did it work for you?
17:33 mtompset     still working on it... distracted. :)
17:34 cait         hi #koha
17:36 mtompset     Oh right... the configuration of the plugin.
17:36 tcohen       <pluginsdir>/var/lib/koha/$name/plugins</pluginsdir>
17:37 tcohen       <enable_plugins>1</enable_plugins>
17:38 mtompset     Shoot... I must have forgotten to package upload.pl?
17:39 tcohen       why?
17:39 tcohen       ssh-add
17:40 tcohen       eythian?
17:40 wahanui      go back to bed, eythian
17:41 mtompset     The upload.pl plugin isn't listed in my drop down list... I'm attempted to backport 6874
17:41 mtompset     bug 6874
17:41 wahanui      it has been said that bug 6874 is epic
17:41 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Patch doesn't apply , File upload in MARC
17:42 tcohen       oh, you're talking about something completely different :-D
17:44 mtompset     tangentially related. :P
17:48 tcohen       to rebase or not to rebase (an old patch), that's the question
17:50 cait         :)
17:53 mtompset     I had it working... now its broken again.
17:53 mtompset     Have to remember what I did to get it working.
18:01 mtompset     Running through the sysprefs first...
18:02 mtompset     What is  CatalogModuleRelink?
18:03 jcamins      mtompset: http://manual.koha-community.org/3.12/en/administration.html#CatalogModuleRelink
18:04 jcamins      None of the sysprefs have anything to do with the plugins that show up, though.
18:05 mtompset     Only the koha-conf.xml?
18:07 jcamins      You're working with a cataloging plugin, so koha-conf.xml has nothing to do with it either.
18:08 mtompset     So, why isn't the plugin icon displaying?
18:10 jcamins      Possible options: you didn't enable it.
18:10 jcamins      You need to restart memcached.
18:10 jcamins      You are using Plack and need to restart the Plack process.
18:10 mtompset     I'm not using memcached.
18:10 mtompset     A newer version is?
18:11 mtompset     Okay... I did enable it, but now it isn't there.
18:11 mtompset     I go to re-enable it, and the file I am expecting in the list, isn't listed.
18:12 jcamins      No, memcached is not enabled by default, I was listing possibilities.
18:13 jcamins      In that case, I'd guess that probably the file isn't there, isn't executable, or is otherwise unusable.
18:13 mtompset     I think that is it... Going to recreate it.
18:18 mtompset     found it... cataloguing/value_builder/upload.pl
18:18 mtompset     fixing...
18:18 wahanui      well, fixing is better than wiping, but it's up to you.
18:29 mtompset     GAH! Shoot... just lost my patch.
18:30 drojf        iit's the internet. you are allowed to say shit
18:31 jcamins      But I reserve the right to be offended.
18:31 drojf        i can live with that. :D
18:31 mtompset     And I reserve the right to censor myself as a practice of self control. :P
18:32 drojf        if you insist ;)
18:54 paul_p       hello #koha !
18:56 cait         hi paul_p
18:57 cait         paul_p: let's hope some more show up :)
18:58 paul_p       cait Joubu said he will be here
18:58 cait         i got an auto-reply from bag, so I think he won't
18:58 cait         haven't heard from marcelr
18:59 cait         i suggest we wait until 5 past or so
18:59 bag          ok I am taking a lunch break from training so I can be here
18:59 cait         oh hi bag :)
18:59 paul_p       hi bag !
18:59 cait         nice!
19:00 bag          bb in one sec
19:01 khall        hey all!
19:01 cait         hi khall :)
19:01 bag          back
19:01 cait         ok, i am a little less worried now :) but some more would be good
19:02 cait         gmcharlt? mtj? Joubu? rangi?
19:02 bag          I am training a library in San Francisco - it is such a beautiful library (old brick building - completely restored)  /me feeling lucky being here
19:02 cait         :)
19:02 cait         how is it going? :)
19:03 bag          so far cait I think they understand OPAC and Patrons…  onto Circ after lunch :)
19:04 cait         I am travelling to train a library tomorrow - training on thursday and friday :)
19:04 cait         it's always exciting
19:05 tcohen       [off] bye #koha, ejoy the QA meeting
19:05 bag          I love it
19:05 cait         ok, people think we should start?
19:06 paul_p       cait = we can I think
19:06 cait         #startmeeting QA Team Meeting
19:06 huginn`      Meeting started Tue Sep  3 19:06:29 2013 UTC.  The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:06 huginn`      Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
19:06 huginn`      The meeting name has been set to 'qa_team_meeting'
19:06 cait         #topic introductions
19:06 wahanui      #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
19:06 cait         ok, quick poll - who is around? :)
19:07 cait         #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
19:07 bag          #info Brendan Gallagher
19:07 paul_p       #info Paul Poulain, BibLibre
19:07 khall        #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions
19:07 cait         #topic Agenda
19:07 Joubu        #info Jonathan Druart, BibLibre
19:07 cait         ah :)
19:08 cait         ok, today's agenda is on the wiki
19:08 Joubu        (sorry for being late)
19:08 cait         #info Agenda: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/QA_team_meeting,_3rd_September_2013
19:08 cait         we are not as many as I had hoped for
19:08 cait         but maybe we can still discuss a few things and gather some ideas
19:09 cait         is there something missing on the agenda? or something we should leave out for today? Discuss first?
19:10 paul_p       cait = joubu & I have discussed of what we putted on the agenda, you added a few things that I agree with, so the agenda is OK for me
19:10 cait         do i need to bribe you all with cookies?
19:10 paul_p       ;-)
19:10 khall        looks good to me!
19:10 druthb       #info Ruth Bavousett
19:10 druthb       I'm here, with cookies!
19:10 cait         :)
19:10 cait         ok, i think we got another agenda item
19:10 cait         ruth has offered to help out with QA
19:11 khall        druthb++
19:11 cait         #topic QA team
19:11 cait         khall: i think that was a yes? :)
19:11 khall        absolutely!
19:11 druthb       Not sure how much time I'll have, but I'll try to throw a few in, particularly on the UNIMARC patches that are needing signoff, and other things that Her Caitness needs me to do.
19:11 paul_p       druthb++ (yes for me as well
19:11 paul_p       )
19:11 cait         any more opinions?
19:11 bag          I can test SIP - but all SIP2 patches in agenda are from khall so I can't…  perhaps I can schedule sometime with cait to help QA those?
19:12 khall        bag: how about those ldap related patches?
19:12 cait         bag: that would be helpful - i have figured out how to set up the sip server by now :)
19:12 bag          I will do the LDAP one.  I can test that :)
19:12 cait         great :)
19:12 cait         let's move a bit slower so i can keep up
19:12 bag          heh
19:12 cait         i will note that we have ruth on the qa team now
19:13 cait         #info druthb will join the QA team to help out qa'ing
19:13 paul_p       bag & cait & others = in the previous release, the rule for QA was "anyone from the QA team, even someone involved in the patch or signoff, can QA once the patch is more than 1 month old". afaik, this rule has not been cancelled
19:13 cait         no it has not, but the old ones are pretty complicated
19:13 cait         so i think for those it's a bit difficult
19:14 cait         let me st a new topic
19:14 cait         #topic QA priorities
19:14 cait         ok
19:14 cait         we have bag for LDAP?
19:14 bag          oh paul_p I did not know that
19:14 paul_p       bag meeting already useful then ;-)
19:14 cait         #action bag offered to QA LDAP patches - starting with bug 9299
19:14 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9299 major, P3, ---, nunyo, Signed Off , for loop in Auth_with_ldap.pm requires an extended patron attribute to be set or LDAP logins fail
19:15 cait         #action bag also offered to help cait test SIP2 patches
19:15 cait         ;)
19:15 khall        nor did I. I assume QA'ing my own original patch would be a bad idea still? But QAing something where I only wrote a followup would be ok, assuming it's older than a month.
19:15 cait         ok, and druthb would offer to look at UNIMARC?
19:15 cait         khall: definitely
19:15 druthb       yis.
19:15 cait         and it's an emergency rule
19:15 cait         and not for huge patches
19:16 cait         #action druthb will try to take a look at UNIMARC patches
19:16 cait         i am going to add you as a QA contact to those later?
19:16 bag          what equals a HUGE patch?
19:16 bag          bigger font? :P
19:16 cait         bug 8015 is quite huge if you look at the list of patches there
19:16 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8015 new feature, P4, ---, kyle.m.hall, Signed Off , Add MARC Modifications Templates
19:16 cait         i think big new features count as huge
19:17 * druthb     hands cait the wiffle bat, to use as needed on rowdy Californians.
19:17 cait         i think it would be better if you get worried about a bug to contact other qa team members who can take a look first
19:17 bag          sounds like a good idea
19:17 mtj          hi all
19:18 cait         hi mtj
19:18 cait         I know currently a lot of things are stuck in the queue
19:18 * mtj        reads the scrollback...
19:18 cait         that's part of the reason for the meeting... I think we need to try and lower the numbers
19:18 cait         because the deadlines are getting really close
19:19 Joubu        I started to qa 8015 and submitted a lot of followups, so I would prefer others pair of eyes look at it. But it looks very good to me!
19:19 cait         bug 8015
19:19 wahanui      bug 8015 is quite huge if you look at the list of patches there
19:19 cait         Joubu: I am going to try - but i don't have a lot of spare time right now - september is busy month here, which is a problem
19:19 paul_p       cait OTOH, without galen pushing, reducing QA queue won't be successfull (too bad gmcharlt is not around...)
19:20 cait         paul_p: gmcharlt wanted to be here, but i think he has been travelling the last few days and only comes back today
19:20 cait         I think even RM deserves some days off? :)
19:22 druthb       no days off for the RM!
19:22 cait         i know that developers are frustrated about their things not going in
19:22 cait         it's understandable
19:22 cait         but we only can change that by working together - i can't do a lot more than i have been doing the last few months - so I really need some help here to get things moving
19:22 bag          how many passed QA are still waiting to be pushed?
19:22 khall        we currently have 63 bugs set to Passed QA
19:22 drojf        #info Mirko Tietgen, lurking
19:23 cait         hi drojf
19:23 cait         dashboard?
19:23 wahanui      dashboard is at http://dashboard.koha-community.org/
19:23 * bag        sends caffeine to gmcharlt
19:23 cait         bag: the numbers are there, in color :)
19:23 drojf        or is it over already? :)
19:23 bag          cait I am THE dense sometimes :P
19:23 cait         i think the one waiting to be pushed are not the problem, those numbers tend to get lower pretty fast when the RM is in action
19:24 cait         and we can help out with giving things a second sign off there too
19:24 cait         i think the queues we need to discuss are waiting for qa and needs sign-off
19:25 mtj          agreed
19:26 cait         I would reall ylike to try and get the number of bugs down in that queue first - because those get transported down into the maintained versions
19:26 paul_p       cait = I agree we have to speak of the to-qa queue, but the pile of passed QA patches contains 10 patches that are pending since june. So I don't share your optimism about the QA queue being lowered when the RM pushes. But let's speak of the to-qa queue
19:26 cait         and we should have them as stable as possible
19:27 cait         paul_p: I know some of those are quite big
19:27 khall        that's a sensible proposition. Is there anyway to filter bugzilla for just signed-off bugs? I haven't found one.
19:28 bag          hmm do some of the to-qa patches depend on "passed QA" to be pushed?
19:28 cait         khall: not sure i understand you right : ) but thequeues on he dashboard are linked :)
19:28 paul_p       cait I already have said that many times, but my conviction is that "push asap enhancement, and take time to test/check them before release" is the most efficent way to go
19:28 cait         yeah, but noone is going to test
19:28 paul_p       cait (an off topic question once again...)
19:29 cait         noone is going to take that time
19:29 cait         in my experience :) and i have said that before
19:29 khall        I'm afraid I agree with both cait and paul_p ; )
19:29 cait         if noone takes the time before they go oin - it's unlikely someone will once they do
19:30 cait         pulling things out that have proven problamtic after being pushed has proved quite hard
19:30 cait         and getting bugs fixed often as well
19:30 cait         but we will always disagree on that I think :)
19:30 khall        cait: I can search for all signed-off patches easily, but I'm not aware of any way to filter by "Importance"
19:30 bag          doesn't signoff and QA help eliminate some of that problem though?  isn't that the point?
19:30 paul_p       cait = i'd like to leave this question for later, and go back to agenda. But that's a topic for hackfest, probably...
19:31 cait         khall: you can add severity and priority to the list as columns, the option is at the bottom of the bugzilla search result list
19:31 khall        agreed, we could discuss this for hours
19:31 cait         khall:  andsort by those
19:31 khall        thanks cait!
19:31 cait         bag: yep i think that is the point :)
19:31 cait         ok, i think we are not ´moving here... so moving on seems like a good idea
19:32 cait         #topic passing QA
19:33 cait         we have seen a lot of work on unit tests lately :) that's great
19:33 cait         kenza++ again
19:33 cait         i also find them really helpful when doing QA
19:33 cait         and I think we should encourage them the best we can
19:34 cait         I think currently we have been asking for tests for new subs and changes to existing ones
19:34 cait         that seems to work quite well
19:35 paul_p       agreed.
19:35 khall        agreed
19:35 druthb       +1
19:35 cait         cool :) so we can agree! :)
19:35 bag          +1
19:36 cait         @agreed ask for unit tests when new routines get added to the API and existing ones are being changed
19:36 huginn`      cait: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
19:36 paul_p       side question = do we have a "qa rule" page on the wiki. I think we should
19:36 cait         #agreed agreed ask for unit tests when new routines get added to the API and existing ones are being changed
19:36 cait         no, we haven't one yet - but i think it's a good idea
19:36 bag          yes that would be nice
19:37 cait         #action add a page with information about QA to the wiki
19:37 Joubu        I agree too, even if a lot of modules/routines are not easy at all to test without having a global unit tests file for this module
19:37 paul_p       QA manager, you take care of creating it ?
19:37 cait         i thik the unit test one could maybe go on the coding guidelines as well - if the RM agrees
19:37 cait         i can
19:38 paul_p       Joubu can you give more details about " a lot of modules/routines are not easy at all to test without having a global unit tests file" ? Could we quickly add an "empty" unit test file for all modules ?
19:38 mtj          looks like we all agree about the unit tests :)
19:38 paul_p       something like a framework
19:39 cait         Joubu: is the problem creating the data?
19:39 khall        cait: I'd say that's usually the most difficult part for me.
19:39 cait         i think it got easier using transactions now
19:40 cait         i have tried my hands on some and it's seems a lot easier than mocking
19:40 cait         but i am still stuck on a patch where i need to mock a cgi object
19:40 cait         ...
19:40 khall        the biggest problem I see with requiring unit tests for exisiting subroutines are some are quite large and do far too much
19:40 Joubu        C4::Circ, C4::Auth, C4::Acq don't have unit tests for all routines. It will be though to modify some routines in these modules.
19:40 Joubu        tough
19:40 cait         i thik we can still make exceptions in some cases, but without trying we won't get good examples to copy from
19:41 cait         i am iwlling to make exceptions for bugs for example
19:41 cait         if the solution can be tested well using a test plan
19:41 khall        agreed. I think new subs need a strict requiremtn for unit tests, existing code a yes with case by case exemptions
19:42 cait         i think maybe differentiate between adding new features and fixing bad behaviour there too
19:43 cait         I'd like to postpone the discussion about the new module
19:43 khall        yes. We don't want to hold up bugfixes any more than we have too
19:43 cait         I'd like to get an opinion of gmcharlt on the possiblity of dbix for 3.14
19:44 bag          that would be great
19:45 cait         it would be
19:45 cait         Joubu: i am sorry, i know that#s your topic, i will try to follow up on that
19:46 cait         ok to move on to the next topic? should I add something more to the minutes?
19:47 Joubu        I asked Galen to give his opinion on bug 10363, but I didn't have any feedback
19:47 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10363 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, In Discussion , There is no package for authorised values.
19:47 cait         Joubu: i will try to look after that one
19:48 cait         which brings me to the next topic :)
19:48 cait         #topic Ideas to improve throughput
19:49 bag          cloning Joubu and the rest of the team
19:50 cait         bag:  not sure i can let that count :) but .... oh well
19:50 cait         #idea clone the QA team :)
19:50 cait         something else? :)
19:50 mtj          falling back on the 1 month rule would indeed improve throughput
19:51 cait         but in the wrong way.
19:51 Joubu        I think QAers should not failed QA a patch for minor things (some tabs, etc.) but rather submit a followup themselves
19:51 cait         Joubu: I agree
19:51 cait         also capitalization maybe
19:51 cait         small things, not changing logic
19:51 Joubu        no, of course
19:52 cait         #idea QA team can provide follow ups for small problems (tabs, typos, capitalization...)
19:52 mtj          joubu, agreed, thats what i usually do
19:52 cait         i have found it's easier to qa big patches when the developer is around to ask questions
19:53 cait         i have done that a few times and it was quite productive
19:53 Joubu        mtj: yes, me too
19:53 paul_p       cait & joubu = that's what I made when I was RM and QAed patches. small things like capitalization or things like that are easy to fix & should be by the QAer
19:53 cait         i think we see a similar effect during the hackfests too
19:53 jcamins      Joubu: in cases where it would take longer to do the follow-up, I suggest just failing it. That was my rule during 3.12. If it's faster to fix than ask for a fix, fix it. Otherwise, kick it back and ask for a fix.
19:54 cait         #idea set up a time with the developer to work on their patches - so you can ask questions
19:54 bag          maybe have a QA day or sprint?  like we scheduled this meeting - or something similar to Global bug squashing day
19:55 cait         GBSD might help with that - we could be around looking at patches of developers that are on IRC that time, give feedback more directly
19:55 cait         ah, bag is typing faster :)
19:55 bag          it's the coffee - not me
19:56 cait         i was thinking maybe fold it into gbsd - but we could also do a special one
19:56 paul_p       I really love the idea of setting up a time to discuss of a given bug. Something regular, like "every friday, at 6AM GMT"
19:56 druthb       special_qa_sprint_day++
19:56 cait         would it be possible that people dedicate some time to that idea?
19:56 cait         if we set up a date?
19:56 bag          if the date is set - I can clear my schedule with enough notice
19:56 druthb       6 AM GMT?  And here I thought that the French had given up on torture.
19:56 cait         #idea have a QA sprint day
19:57 cait         i guess it would have to be a global friday - we are really far spread around the globe
19:58 cait         this time is late for europe, but actually the best option we have with the qa team widely spread
19:58 cait         should we try and set a date for a qa sprint?
19:58 bag          would be best to have RM present - maybe fridays aren't the best for him?  let's pole the RM
19:58 cait         pole?
19:59 bag          poll
19:59 paul_p       druthb it was just an example. and we could have various options.
19:59 cait         ah
19:59 cait         maybe we could suggest a date
19:59 druthb       paul_p:  :P
19:59 cait         and see if that works
19:59 bag          cait: let's do it and see what happens
19:59 cait         what about....
20:00 * cait       searches for her calendar
20:00 mtj          how about a wednesday?
20:00 wahanui      a wednesday is fine for me
20:01 cait         wednesdy woudl work for me
20:01 Joubu        It would be really great if wahanui could qa patches...
20:01 cait         what about 11th?
20:01 mtj          +1
20:02 drojf        you know that there is the regular meeting too?
20:02 cait         no, but might not be a bad thing
20:03 cait         i mean it doesn't necessarily interfere
20:03 cait         hm depends if we want to set a time too or make it a global one
20:04 cait         we could also make it thursday
20:04 cait         or friday
20:04 cait         12th or 13th
20:04 cait         any preferences?
20:05 paul_p       12th could be possible for me. 13th (my) morning won't be possible
20:05 bag          +1
20:05 Joubu        +1
20:05 bag          alright back to training for me - cya later
20:06 cait         that's for 12th?
20:06 cait         #agreed 12th September suggested date for QA sprint
20:07 cait         mtj: ok for you too? sorry i might have been too fast
20:07 cait         ok, any more ideas?
20:07 mtj          ok for me too :)
20:08 cait         would someone be willing ot set up a wiki page for it?
20:08 cait         i am travelling all day tomorrow and it would be nice to get that out and announced
20:08 mtj          i can do the wiki page today
20:09 druthb       mtj++
20:09 cait         mtj: awesome!
20:09 wahanui      That'll be $1 for the awesome jar, cait
20:09 cait         mtj++
20:09 paul_p       mtj++ !
20:09 cait         #action mtj to create a wiki page for the first QA sprint
20:09 * druthb     puts .76 Euro in the jar for cait.
20:10 cait         thx druthb
20:10 cait         do we want to set up another meeting?
20:10 cait         or see how the qa sprint works out first?
20:11 paul_p       cait I don't have a preference
20:11 paul_p       cait both are possible
20:12 cait         so let's see how the qa sprint goes
20:12 cait         i#d love if as many qa people as possible coudl dedicate sometime
20:12 cait         maybe send a note to the list or put on the wiki page when you can be around
20:13 cait         working on qA
20:14 mtj          cait, ill ping you when the wiki is done
20:14 cait         thank you mtj
20:14 cait         and thx for volunteering
20:15 cait         maybe you could add a section for a little schedule? let's see if we can make use of being globally spread?
20:15 cait         ok, i am going to close the meeting now
20:15 cait         #agreed new meeting to be determined after QA sprint day
20:15 cait         #endmeeting
20:15 huginn`      Meeting ended Tue Sep  3 20:15:48 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
20:15 huginn`      Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/qa_team_meeting.2013-09-03-19.06.html
20:15 huginn`      Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/qa_team_meeting.2013-09-03-19.06.txt
20:15 huginn`      Log:            http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/qa_team_meeting.2013-09-03-19.06.log.html
20:15 cait         thx for coming everyone
20:15 mtj          so, any idea for the frequency of the sprints… ? say every 2 or 4 weeks?
20:15 druthb       cait++
20:16 drojf        cait++
20:16 cait         every 2 would be good ad we are getting so close to the deadlines, but not sure we can make it happen
20:16 mtj          thanx cait++
20:16 cait         let's work together on making this first a good start
20:16 Joubu        cait++ thanks !
20:16 mtj          yeah, 2 weeks is good, i think
20:16 cait         Joubu++ thx for adding to the agenda
20:17 rangi        cait++ #for caling the meeting and for valuing stability over speed
20:18 mtj          i really like this qa-sprint idea :)
20:18 cait         i really hope it works :)
20:18 cait         i think we can set a good example, maybe get some people testing etc.
20:18 Joubu        cait: you are welcome, but I hope my "important" point could be discussed later :)
20:18 cait         we can only do something together - blaming each other won't work :)
20:18 cait         Joubu: it's not forgotten
20:20 rangi        what was your important point?
20:20 * rangi      will read back after he has dropped the kids at school
20:22 Joubu        rangi: it is about bug 10363: should we wait the integration of DBIx into Koha before adding new modules?
20:22 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10363 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, In Discussion , There is no package for authorised values.
20:23 rangi        ah yeah, i have some work that is waiting too
20:23 rangi        http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=fa697f75a9b97cda8a49bccffa46052ee38063ce
20:24 rangi        and
20:24 rangi        http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=7130fb468c339df22aaefacb8d2723ea86a8ccd4
20:24 rangi        +    my $borrowers = Koha::Borrower->new();
20:24 rangi        +    my $borrower  = $borrowers->get_borrower( { 'cardnumber' => $userid } );
20:24 rangi        +    my %row = $borrower->get_columns;
20:24 rangi        ^^ so much nicer :)
20:25 cait         maybe we could get together about dbix class sometimes? i would like to elarn more
20:25 rangi        basically we need to fix the foreign key problems in the db
20:25 rangi        then the dbix::class work can get pushed
20:25 rangi        then all the stuff depending on it can
20:26 rangi        i just need to check with gmcharlt that he is ok with me working to try to fix the db
20:26 rangi        cos if we can do that
20:26 rangi        we can remove that one problematic line
20:26 cait         i am interested in helping
20:26 cait         it would help my work on our deletion concept
20:26 rangi        (byproduct is we would get better db out of it too)
20:29 Joubu        rangi: yes but the patch refactors the AV code into a new module (without using DBIx), adding unit tests. The discussion is : should we rewrite the patch or include it as it is (since it improves the code)?
20:29 Joubu        anyway, go to bed. bye #koha
20:29 cait         bye Joubu
20:30 cait         added minutes - now goin gto pack
21:13 rangi        Joubu: ah that would totally be the RM call in that case
21:14 rangi        id probably lean towards including, but with a big #REWRITE ME  all over it
21:42 eythian      hi
21:44 drojf        hi eythian
21:44 rangi        http://cspf.co.uk/tracking  <-- if you look here from 0600 UTC and choose sea farer II
21:44 rangi        yuo can watch the swimmer catalyst is sponsoring swimming the channel
21:47 drojf        i hope it is at least FOSS swimming. :P
21:49 mtompset     drojf: You mean you FOSS-t, right? ;)
21:49 mtompset     DOH! I better grab some caffeine, that parsed badly.
21:50 drojf        i have no idea what that meant. but i was blaming it on being awake too long :)
21:50 mtompset     You were trying to make a pun on fast, right?
21:52 mtompset     Almost recovered the patch now... but the silly window isn't popping up right.
22:34 mtompset     YAY! Patch fixed again.
22:35 mtompset     Well, I'll try placing it later tonight.
23:02 eythian      http://osdc.org.nz/2013/09/03/speaker-feature-francois-marier/ <-- rangi
23:02 eythian      http://www.yubico.com/2013/05/browserid-yubikey/ <-- also rangi
23:02 rangi        sweet
23:18 Brooke       yo!
23:18 rangi        hi Brooke
23:18 Brooke       :) how's it?
23:19 rangi        not too bad
23:19 tcohen       hi rangi
23:20 Brooke       good to hear