Time Nick Message
00:03 tcohen bye #koha, gotta cook tonight
00:03 dcook mmm food
00:03 dcook Right, openshift..
00:08 mtompset where in the .git/config file do I put the alias suggested by http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Git_bz_configuration#Signing_off_2?
00:08 mtompset in the [core] section?
00:08 jcamins https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Aliases
00:09 mtompset Ah, add an [alias] section.
00:10 dcook Hmm...
00:10 * dcook wonders if he has done this
00:10 dcook I must've as my sign offs include my name/email..
00:11 dcook Hmm, not noticing it..
00:11 dcook Oh...durrr
00:11 dcook nevermind
00:11 dcook Pays to read the whole page..
01:41 mtompset I'm calling it a day. Have a great day, #koha.
04:03 mtj peeps, could i get some advice about which caching method to use for Koha?
04:03 mtj is the memoize stuff the preference?
04:05 mtj i have my 'carousel' feature using a hardcoded '127.0.0.1' memcached server
04:05 mtj but before i submit the patch, i need to fix this
04:06 wizzyrea mtj you missed a most epic discussion of this from earlier
04:06 wizzyrea you might want to catch the log
04:06 wizzyrea from about... 8-10 this morning
04:06 mtj yeah, i spotted it wiz
04:06 wizzyrea cool
04:06 mtj which was very topical for me :)
04:07 wizzyrea what's the feature do?
04:08 mtj -> demo.calyx.net.au
04:09 mtj ...it displays 'recently added' items to the OPAC
04:09 wizzyrea pretty :)
04:09 dcook mtj++
04:09 mtj its queries OpenLibrary for each ISBN and stored the success/fail in memcached
04:10 mtj so, 1st load takes 30 seconds.. :/
04:10 mtj but 2nd load takes 0.05 seconds :)
04:12 wizzyrea neat!
04:14 wizzyrea there are about a zillion of these fancy things out now
04:14 mtj yeah, would be nice to give Koha a working default one
04:15 dcook True that
04:15 wizzyrea it'd have to be a super flexible one :/
04:16 wizzyrea can you imagine - "I want two rows of three, auto moving after 10 seconds, that stops when I hover"
04:16 wizzyrea vs "I want a slick 3D interface that ... " etc etc etc
04:17 wizzyrea so either it will be really flexible, or it will be easily replaceable
04:17 * wizzyrea is not really naysaying
04:17 wizzyrea it sounds like it but i'm not
04:17 dcook Just...realistic
04:17 wizzyrea it's just... people have crazy ideas about thsi stuff
04:18 mtj naw…. just a feature that can be disabled ;)
04:19 mtj problemo solved
04:21 mtj so, i think im looking for good examples of Koha::Cache stuff now
04:24 dcook On a completely unrelated note, I wonder if we handle the "Deleted" record status for position 5 of the Leader...
04:24 * dcook has his doubts
04:30 mtj heres a genuine Q - how do i enable 'Koha::Cache' to get 'prove -v ./t/Cache.t' to pass
04:31 pastebot "mtj" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "prove -v ./t/Cache.t" (39 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/181
04:32 mtj .
04:32 mtj oops, i think i know
05:16 dcook hey ya cait :)
05:16 dcook brb, lunchtime...
05:16 cait ok :)
05:19 dcook back ^_^
05:19 cait hm seriously?
05:19 cait what was for lunch
05:19 cait ?
05:20 dcook Well, I'm eating it presently
05:20 dcook Just sandwiches
05:20 dcook I am tempted to read Akira...but want to keep working at the same time
05:20 * dcook made it to the library in time to grab the last 5 volumes of the manga :D
05:20 cait heh
05:20 cait you shouldn't work and eat
05:20 cait poeple keep telling me that
05:21 dcook They're probably right
05:21 dcook I occasionally go to the park in the summer or the public library around the corner
05:22 dcook But...I'm a bit focussed
05:22 dcook Maybe too focussed..
05:25 dcook Hmm
05:25 dcook Maybe you can answer me a question
05:26 cait maybe :)
05:26 dcook With your union catalogue, does the "control_number" column in the "import_biblios" table get used?
05:33 dcook I'm trying to figure out the matching for this OAI-PMH harvester
05:33 dcook At the moment, I'm just looking at "matched_biblio", but if control_number is useful too, I'll try to build that in
06:12 cait dcook: it's never filled no - not sure why it is not
06:12 dcook cait: Thanks.
06:13 dcook No idea. I just saw it in the DB so I thought I'd ask :)
06:13 cait i only recently discovered it existed :)
06:13 dcook Same :)
06:13 cait it would be useful sometimes for querying things faster
06:13 cait but it's not high on my priority list to fix
06:14 dcook I wonder if this will work in your context then..
06:14 dcook So you have your union catalogue
06:14 dcook It imports records from other sources
06:14 dcook Actually, the other sources don't matter so much
06:14 dcook In your union catalogue, do you use the 001 and the 999?
06:15 cait hm i think there is a misunderstanding :)
06:15 dcook Could well be :)
06:15 cait the union catalog is the main cataloguing platform
06:15 cait and we import from there into koha
06:15 dcook O_o
06:15 cait guess that means there was one?
06:16 dcook ?
06:16 * dcook is using fewer and fewer characters apparently :p
06:16 cait so the libraries first attach their holdings in the union catalog or create a new record there
06:16 cait then they use z39.50 or wait for the nightly import
06:16 cait and it would be nice if the nightly import could be replaced with something like oai one day
06:17 dcook I hope I can help out with that :)
06:17 cait maybe
06:17 dcook So...the union catalog...what is it exactly?
06:17 dcook What system?
06:17 wahanui system is running nothing else...
06:17 cait in what terms?
06:17 cait the software name is PICA i think
06:17 dcook Is it another instance of Koha or is it a different ILS or a different piece of software all together
06:17 dcook Mmm
06:18 cait i like koha, but koha couldn't really handle what the union catalog does
06:18 dcook OCLC?
06:18 wahanui OCLC is probably proof of how well *that* works. Bah.
06:18 cait sec
06:19 dcook "OCLC PICA software is used by the Netherlands union catalog, several German library consortia (including GBV, Hebis and SWB), the Australian national library, the French union catalog SUDOC and many other libraries. Sisis and Fretwell-Downing also have many notable customers in Germany, the UK and worldwide."
06:21 cait well, not sure what you want to know really :)
06:22 dcook I think I understand now :)
06:22 dcook If I understand correctly, it's like a more localized version of Worldcat?
06:22 cait hm maybe
06:22 dcook Or a union catalogue belonging to a cataloguing cooperative
06:23 * dcook thought about creating a union catalogue for legal bibliographic records in Canada but ended up moving to Australia
06:23 cait cooperative cataloguing and ILL are the main points i think
06:23 dcook Then you import into Koha when you want a record for an item
06:24 cait basically yes
06:24 dcook In some cases, you'd copy catalogue, and in some cases you'd catalogue in PICA then download into Koha
06:24 dcook Makes sense
06:24 cait or we import a packages of ebooks
06:24 dcook When I was at the provincial library in Saskatchewan, they did that as well
06:24 cait basically we update Koha every night
06:24 cait with the records that have been changed in the union catalog
06:24 cait or added
06:24 cait when you want to finish your catalouging it's easier to use z39.50 and download the record immediately of course
06:24 dcook Does your Koha have all the same records as the union catalogue?
06:24 cait but at night the import will add the authorities to the system
06:25 cait and also provide a record that has been cleaned up a bit to better work in Koha
06:25 cait all the records that the library has added holdings for
06:26 cait we can only automatically grabthose, they can of course download other records too
06:26 dcook Hmm, if PICA includes all of your records in an OAI set...that could work
06:27 cait i don't know if it can, we didn't investigate so far
06:27 dcook Mmm, I see
06:27 cait right now it works quite well as it is
06:27 dcook Well, I'll keep it in the back of my mind
06:27 dcook Sounds like it
06:27 wahanui Sounds like it is beer o'clock for you dcook? ;)
06:28 dcook Almost, wahanui
06:28 wahanui dcook: what?
06:28 dcook :(
06:28 dcook How does the automatic grab happen?
06:28 dcook Z39.50 or a bulk export/import of MARC records?
06:28 cait we get the marc data from an ftp server
06:29 cait the records for each library get provided there by the union catalog every night
06:29 cait and then we have scripts using the staged marc import tools
06:29 dcook Using the 001 as a matcher, I imagine?
06:30 dcook I'm using some of the staged marc import tools. Just trying to figure out the best way of managing the replacement of records.
06:31 * magnuse waves
06:31 dcook hey ya magnuse :)
06:31 * magnuse will soon have to deal with a situation like that too
06:31 magnuse hiya dcook and cait
06:32 cait dcook: yes, using 001
06:32 dcook magnuse: Oh?
06:33 * dcook almost wonders if he should've waited for someone smarter than himself to design a more elegant system :p
06:33 magnuse don't wait for me, then :-)
06:33 dcook cait: So when the record is in Koha, it has the same number in the 001 and the 999$c and 999$d?
06:33 dcook magnuse: You're too modest :p
06:33 cait no
06:33 cait for marc21 we don't overwrite 001 with the bibnumber currently
06:33 cait i think unimarc does, but not sure
06:34 magnuse Viktor wants a system like that, where records are fetched and imported into Koha, but he wants it to happen almost instantly, when there are records available
06:34 cait we could also switch to 035 maybe, as the number is there too
06:34 cait dcook: we link records in hierarchies
06:34 magnuse the provider has been talking about pubsubhubbub, but i don't think that is in place yet
06:34 cait dcook: in order to do that, 001 is used with $w subfields
06:35 cait if we put the biblionumber in 001.... it would break
06:35 rangi magnuse: so polling? or does the union catalogue have some kinda stream you can listen to?
06:35 magnuse rangi: not sure about the details yet...
06:35 cait evening rangi
06:35 rangi i mean, it mostly has to happen on their end
06:35 magnuse and evening rangi
06:36 rangi because they have to have someway of us knowing new records exist
06:36 rangi and then the rest is easy peasy
06:36 rangi evening
06:36 magnuse yeah, i think we will use a simpler solution until the provider/union catalogue has worked out the details for the fancy solution :-)
06:36 dcook cait: I think I follow. I imagine that 001 must have an OCLC control number...
06:37 cait we have our own
06:37 dcook Interesting. I've wondered recently about the difference between a control number and a bib number are
06:37 cait we also have oclc identifiers in our data tho - because we deliver data to oclc and then we add the identifiers to the records
06:38 cait but 001 has the PPN - pica production number I think
06:38 dcook Hmm, does Voyager use the 001 for the bib number..
06:39 cait so the internal record number from the union catalog
06:39 dcook Right.
06:41 dcook It seems like the 001 is one of those fields that gets treated differently by different libraries
06:41 cait that's probably true
06:42 marcelr good morning #koha
06:43 dcook hey ya marcelr
06:43 dcook cait: It looks like the authorities put their authority # in the 001
06:43 dcook I think ideally Koha should probably put the bib number in the 001, but...*shrug*
06:44 dcook Reality and ideals aren't always the same thing
06:44 magnuse there's a bug for that
06:44 dcook It shouldn't matter in my case anyway, as I'll just pass the biblionumber to the XSLT and let people choose which field they want to use..
06:44 dcook magnuse: Yeah? It seems like it would break the workflow for folks like cait and I'm sure others though :/
06:44 dcook I suppose if you could turn it on/off...
06:44 magnuse bug 9921
06:45 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9921 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nunyo, Needs Signoff , Make it possible to force 001 = biblionumber
06:45 dcook But that wouldn't necessarily work so well either
06:45 cait it would indeed break our record linking
06:45 magnuse yeah, it definitely needs a syspref that defaults to off
06:45 dcook I guess if Koha used 999 internally still but put the bib number in the 001 as well..
06:45 cait and it would be really hard to fix that
06:45 dcook For sure
06:45 rangi im not sure why you would ever do that
06:45 dcook I think I had someone recently ask for the 001 to have the bib number
06:45 rangi it is a unique number
06:46 rangi for use only by koha
06:46 cait rangi: hm do what?
06:46 wahanui do is just a loop with the condition at the end
06:46 rangi why do librarians have to break everything!!
06:46 dcook hehe
06:46 rangi humans should not see know or care about biblionumbers
06:46 rangi just like itemnumbers
06:46 dcook True, but 001 is more standard than 999
06:46 rangi its unique to precisely your installation, and means nothing outside of koha
06:46 rangi 999 is for localuse
06:46 rangi 001 isnt
06:47 dcook But if you're designing a system th at uses a record's ID
06:47 dcook Actually, 001 should be
06:47 rangi the record id should be different to biblionumber
06:47 magnuse the norwegian national library harvests records for a national meta-search, they in effect demand to find the biblionumber in 001
06:47 dcook "Contains the control number assigned by the organization creating, using, or distributing the record."
06:47 rangi exactly
06:47 rangi not the software creating a row in a db table
06:48 cait well enforcing biblionumbr would be bad for us - so I am not for that :) and now i have to run!
06:48 cait cya all a little later
06:48 dcook ta ta cait
06:48 dcook Hmm
06:49 dcook Actually, you could argue that biblionumber isn't just used "internally" per se
06:49 rangi ie the control number should be purposefully assigned, not an accidentally assigned database primary key
06:49 dcook As we put it in the URLs
06:49 dcook You're probably right, rangi
06:49 rangi but it only makes sense for koha
06:49 dcook But in that case, we should probably use record/control ids for access rather than primary keys
06:49 magnuse i had to come up with this to comply with the nat lib demands: https://gist.github.com/MagnusEnger/1918264
06:49 rangi you cant give me a biblionumber and have it match the same record in my catalogue
06:50 rangi it means exactly nothing, outside of your koha
06:50 dcook Mmm, I saw that, magnuse.
06:50 dcook rangi: Your Koha isn't necessarily a silo though.
06:50 dcook It's the one unique identifier that people outside the system can use to find it
06:51 magnuse but do we have a scheme for globally unique identifiers to put in 001?
06:51 magnuse rdf/linked data solves so many problems...
06:51 dcook magnuse++
06:51 rangi its only locally unique dcook
06:51 rangi thats the problem
06:51 dcook True true
06:51 dcook There really should be a scheme for globally unique identifiers
06:52 marcelr bug 9921
06:52 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9921 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nunyo, Needs Signoff , Make it possible to force 001 = biblionumber
06:52 marcelr the title is not really good
06:52 magnuse dcook: there is one: the URI
06:53 reiveune hello
06:53 marcelr hi reiveune
06:53 dcook Right. Looking forward to the move to linked data/rdf
06:53 dcook salut reiveune
06:53 magnuse :-)
06:53 reiveune salut marcelr, dcook, magnuse :)
06:53 dcook rangi: To be honest, in the end, I only really care insofar as I'm able to meet the needs of my librarians
06:54 dcook The one who asked me most recently probably is encountering a similar situation to magnuse
06:54 rangi yep, i care that your needs dont break others needs ;-) too much of that has happened in koha
06:54 dcook Mmm, also true
06:54 marcelr dcook: it should just be one way to fill 001
06:54 dcook marcelr: Agreed
06:54 marcelr and leave room for other ways
06:54 * dcook nods
06:54 dcook Couldn't agree more :)
06:55 * dcook has 6 minutes to figure out his other problem..
06:55 dcook The OAI-PMH unique identifiers seem all right
06:55 dcook Although matching them in Koha looks like a no go because of the colons
06:55 dcook The current plan..
06:56 alex_a salut
06:56 wahanui privet, alex_a
06:57 dcook Use the OAI-PMH unique identifier to find if that record has been imported in the past...if it has and the incoming record has an updated datestamp...use the import_record_id of that record to look up the matched_biblionumber...and put that into the incoming record for matching the 999$c or 999$d
06:57 dcook Roundabout...but it's the only idea I've got at this point
06:58 dcook Whew. Figured the problem out in 4 minutes..
07:03 magnuse yay!
07:04 gaetan_B hello
07:04 wahanui hi, gaetan_B
07:04 dcook At some point, I probably should just post it on Bugzilla so people can tell me how Idea #3 and Idea #5 are completely ridiculous ;)
07:05 dcook bonjour gaetan_B :)
07:05 gaetan_B bonjour :)
07:05 magnuse yay for Bug 10775
07:05 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10775 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Create humans.txt from the history document
07:06 dcook wizzyrea++
07:06 dcook Great idea :)
07:09 dcook Ok, I should probably take off
07:09 dcook Got to the library in time last night btw
07:10 dcook Barely but got there ^_^
07:11 magnuse yay!
07:11 rangi right, ive had it with bad instruction wiki guy
07:11 * rangi volleys his serve back
07:11 * dcook looks forward to reading rangi's response
07:11 magnuse yay
07:13 dcook All right. Must leave. Can't stay. Sort of want to stay. Must go!
07:13 dcook Cheers everyone :)
07:13 rangi not too mean i hope
07:13 magnuse ah, he made it out in time :-)
07:14 magnuse nope, very civil
07:16 rangi hmm not sure how the humans.txt would work
07:16 rangi i think its supposed to be site specific?
07:16 magnuse i think for me, the main question is: why not contribute to the official wiki? having lots of half baked instructions all over the place is not good for anyone
07:16 rangi yeah
07:16 marcelr rangi: i must have missed more emails from the bad wiki guy?
07:17 rangi there's a few in the last few days
07:17 magnuse rangi: the way i understood it, it could just be ralted to the software that runs the site
07:17 rangi magnuse: i totally should have made that point
07:17 rangi magnuse: ahh ok, that makes more sense
07:17 magnuse s/ralted/related/
07:18 marcelr magnuse: is the idea then: create it from history.txt?
07:18 magnuse marcelr: i think that is wizzyrea's plan, yeah
07:19 magnuse plus probably a hat tip to things we use, like jquery etc
07:20 kf back
07:20 magnuse wb kf
07:22 rangi hi kf
07:25 kf hi magnuse and rangi :)
07:28 marcelr hi kf
07:28 kf hi marcelr
07:29 kf sorry that you can't make the meeting - but i think we are going to ahve another some time soon if it turns out useful
07:32 mtj hi all
07:34 marcelr kf: yes too bad; i saw no specific agenda items btw?
07:34 marcelr hi mtj
07:34 kf hi mtj
07:34 kf i have only added gbsd so far, but may add some more today
07:34 magnuse marcelr: patches are welcome ;-)
07:34 kf everyone can add agenda items
07:35 marcelr magnuse: there will always be patches :)
07:36 rangi marcelr: mtompset was talkinga bout these instructions
07:36 marcelr rangi: i just stumbled over that tone, but did not see what was before that
07:36 rangi http://wiki.lib.sun.ac.za/index.php/KOHA
07:37 marcelr but i did not dare to be more specific than oops
07:37 rangi which the person who wrote them has now posted to the list 5 or so times
07:37 rangi and they are really really bad instructions
07:37 marcelr ok
07:37 marcelr he could not be convinced
07:37 rangi nope
07:38 rangi and is now volunteering to talk to the eifl-floss people to .. on koha's behalf
07:38 marcelr oops again
07:38 rangi yeah
07:38 marcelr oops++
07:38 rangi heh
07:38 marcelr that is oops again
07:42 * magnuse adds his .02$
07:43 rangi :)
07:46 magnuse this reminds me of http://koha.dk/?p=installation-af-ekstra-sprog, where you can now download danish templates for Koha. huh?
07:46 marcelr magnuse++ why do people always write KOHA
07:47 magnuse because they think it must be an abbreviation, perhaps?
07:48 marcelr i should think about the meaning of that acronym then
07:50 kf marcelr: lots of people here write KoHa - that's even weirder
07:50 marcelr :)
07:52 rangi Depending on the situation, it might be written "koha" or "Koha" or maybe even "KOHA". Writing "kOha" just means you got the shifting out of sync, though.
07:53 rangi < owen> If your vendor calls it KOHA you know it's not really Koha.
07:53 magnuse :-)
07:54 marcelr so bad instructions should really be contexted with KOHA
07:55 magnuse ooh, gbsd starts in ~2 hours, if you choose to go by kiribati-time
07:55 marcelr cool
07:56 mtj hey rangi, i just got the carousel thing running with Koha::Cache :)
07:56 rangi awesoome
07:57 rangi magnuse: not sure how much ill get done this one
07:59 * magnuse neither :-(
08:00 mtj my theory for KOHA spelling - is that its more VISIBLE in emails and text
08:01 magnuse hey, maybe we should change the name to <blink>KOHA</blink>?
08:01 marcelr in color please
08:01 mtj pls frieads HELP my with the my KOHA!!
08:02 marcelr :)
08:02 kf i am nto sure if shouting the name out will help :)
08:02 marcelr remember the plzzz plzzz guy
08:04 mtj plzzZ plszzZ - KOHA keeps falling asleep!!
08:07 * magnuse roots for bug 10240
08:07 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10240 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Offline circulation using HTML5 and IndexedDB
08:07 kf :)
08:07 kf iwill probably be around until 2 or so tomorrow
08:07 kf depending if my familiy visits or not
08:08 * magnuse tries to find ways to delay kf's family ;-)
08:08 kf hey!
08:19 rangi magnuse: ahh well, you tried
08:20 rangi that reply makes no sense
08:25 magnuse nope, but i'll answer him :-)
08:35 rangi magnuse++
08:35 marcelr magnuse: 166 became 165; unfortunately it moved to failed qa
08:36 magnuse marcelr++ any movement is progress :-)
08:38 drojf good morning #koha
08:39 drojf i see you are having fun on the list ;)
08:42 marcelr hi drojf
08:42 drojf hi marcelr
08:42 magnuse moin drojf
08:43 drojf hei magnuse
08:43 magnuse there is always some fun to be had in Koha-land :-)
08:48 * magnuse throws http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/How_was_my_Koha_installed out there and hopes people will contribute
08:49 rangi :)
08:50 magnuse kia ora khall
08:50 magnuse rangi: not sure what is the best way to distinguish between a tarball and a git install...
08:52 rangi hmm
08:53 rangi yeah
08:55 drojf check if there is a .git folder in whereever koha-conf.xml points at?
08:56 rangi that would do it
08:57 magnuse and the prize for best suggestion is... the pleasure of adding it to the wiki page! ;-)
08:57 rangi hehe
09:01 drojf <intranetdir> is the koha root folder for git installations, so that's probably the best one to try?
09:03 drojf look what i stole from eythian…
09:04 drojf sudo xmlstarlet sel -t -v 'yazgfs/config/intranetdir' /etc/koha/sites/koha/koha-conf.xml
09:04 drojf now somebody make that check for .git ;)
09:05 rangi :)
09:21 magnuse hah, i knew it! that swedish system with multiple barcodes per item? it also has multiple barcodes per patron. awesome!
09:21 rangi lol
09:22 rangi someones first database
09:22 rangi referential integrity.... what's that?
09:22 drojf :)
09:25 rangi magnuse: http://kohadevreactions.tumblr.com/post/58848751862/just-found-out-that-they-subtly-changed-how
09:28 magnuse lol
09:31 drojf by the god of bash script noobness, this looks like it works for me
09:31 drojf kohapath=$(sudo xmlstarlet sel -t -v 'yazgfs/config/intranetdir' /etc/koha/sites/koha/koha-conf.xml); if [ -d $kohapath/.git ]; then echo "Looks like a git installation."; else echo "Looks like a tarball installation.";fi
09:32 rangi yep
09:32 magnuse but if you have a dev install there will probably not be a /etc/koha/sites/koha/koha-conf.xml ?
09:32 rangi but only the packages put stuff in /etc/koha/sites
09:33 rangi what he said :)
09:33 drojf no you have to put the path to your file
09:33 drojf of course
09:33 drojf the instance could have a different name too ;)
09:33 rangi for tarball or git
09:33 drojf in general
09:33 rangi its /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml
09:33 drojf i know
09:33 drojf ah it's always that
09:34 rangi yup
09:34 drojf you only have one instance
09:34 rangi yup
09:34 drojf ok that would be better than
09:36 drojf hm no. git can be everywhere
09:36 drojf this actually is my git installation ;)
09:36 drojf if you gitify a package installation it ends up there
09:37 rangi yep
09:37 rangi but most people dont do that
09:37 rangi and if they can manage that
09:37 rangi they dont need this wiki page ;)
09:38 drojf :)
09:39 magnuse well, you might have inherited the server...
09:39 drojf i just wanted to say that
09:39 drojf wasn't that the point of the page? :)
09:40 rangi true, i think youd be pretty unlucky to install one some had gitified from packages tho
09:40 drojf indeed
09:40 rangi because youd most likely be getting it from me or you
09:40 rangi :)
09:40 drojf but if you know, you can burn it and do a fresh install :D
09:40 rangi locate koha-conf.xml
09:41 rangi is probably the easiest way
09:41 magnuse rangi: agreed, a gitified package install is an edge case
09:41 drojf yeah locate makes sense. if there are several you woul dhave found the koha sites before with the other test and not run the script
09:42 rangi yeah
09:43 drojf anyway, i'll put it on the wiki as it is now, have a shower and do things i really have to do. feel free to enhance it or i might do it eventually :)
09:44 magnuse drojf++
09:44 rangi :)
09:47 kf :)
09:47 kf about that gitifying
09:47 kf are there instructions for that somewhere? :)
09:48 rangi in the pod :)
09:49 rangi basically you checkout the script
09:49 rangi the run koha-gitify instancename path_to_gitclone
09:49 kf ok, so where does the script live?
09:49 kf gitify?
09:49 wahanui well, gitify is at https://github.com/mkfifo/koha-gitify
09:49 kf aah
09:49 rangi or
09:49 kf is it the right one?
09:49 rangi http://git.segfault.net.nz/?p=koha-gitify.git;a=summary
09:49 rangi yep
09:50 kf ok :)
09:50 * magnuse needs a break
10:00 Joubu hello #koha
10:01 Joubu I have a question, nobody is able to answer here...
10:01 Joubu How do you call the returner variable for GetAuthorisedValueCategories?
10:01 Joubu $categories_names, $category_names, $categories_name?
10:02 kf hm is it the code or the description?
10:03 kf hm ok, we only have codes there
10:03 kf guess iam the wrong person to ask :)
10:04 Joubu kf: yes it is the code
10:04 Joubu same question with s/name/code/g :)
10:05 rangi its an arrayref Joubu ?
10:05 rangi if so
10:05 rangi $category_names
10:05 rangi $category_codes
10:06 Joubu rangi: ok thanks!
10:12 Joubu rangi: but... so there is no difference with a routine called GetNamesForACategory? why isn't it categories_names?
10:12 rangi because that isnt valid english
10:13 rangi category_names = names of categories
10:14 rangi if we ever have GetNamesForACategory we are doing something wrong
10:17 Joubu rangi: yes, it was simply a grammatical question :)
10:17 rangi :)
10:17 rangi english is weird, but you would never say categories names
10:18 Joubu OK it's noted!
10:28 magnuse how about "categorie's names"
10:28 magnuse ?
10:28 magnuse oh btw IT's ON! http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/2013-08-23_Global_bug_squashing_day
10:29 rangi magnuse: category's names
10:29 rangi if you mean the names owned by a category
10:29 magnuse ah, yes
10:29 rangi english is dumb
10:30 magnuse nah, it's fun!
10:30 magnuse unpredictable sometimes, but fun
10:30 magnuse :-)
10:37 magnuse rangi++ for the dashboard
10:40 kf :)
10:40 kf dashboard?
10:40 wahanui dashboard is probably at http://dashboard.koha-community.org/
10:51 magnuse kia ora Viktor
10:52 Viktor kia ora Magnus
10:52 magnuse Viktor: global bug squashing day just started in Kiribati - a perfect occasion for your first signoff ;-)
10:53 Viktor Very bad reception here, I'm going into a tunnel now ;)
10:53 kf ah, travelling by train?
10:53 kf i hate those tunnels.
10:55 Viktor Yes very annoying how the text breaks up :)
10:56 Viktor But no kf - just a bit swamped with other stuff. I think my plans for delving deeper into the inner workings of Koha (and the community) will have to be delayed until winter.
10:56 * magnuse thinks tunnels are just an excuse for dodging gbsd ;-)
10:57 magnuse oh well, i tried ;-)
10:57 * Viktor thinks magnuse is quite insightful :)
10:57 * magnuse thinks Viktor is already doing really well with delving into the community
10:58 magnuse Viktor++ in fact
10:58 magnuse @karma Viktor
10:58 huginn` magnuse: Karma for "Viktor" has been increased 15 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 14.
10:58 magnuse decreased?!?
10:58 Viktor Thanks magnuse :)
10:58 * Viktor is curious
10:59 kf Viktor++
11:00 Viktor Are you going to KohaCon kf magnuse?
11:01 kf I am
11:01 magnuse i am not, sadly
11:02 Viktor Yay kf
11:02 Viktor And sorry magnuse
11:02 magnuse (the -- was from druthb, probably a typo, judging by the context)
11:02 Viktor But I'm not either from the looks of it.
11:02 magnuse :-(
11:02 magnuse Viktor: we can be miserable together then
11:03 Viktor magnuse Let's :)
11:03 magnuse rangi still around?
11:03 * magnuse hopes there will be video
11:04 Viktor agreed magnuse
11:06 * magnuse hopes there will be time to watch the video too :-)
11:06 Viktor That is a problem yes.
11:06 magnuse but the real fun (for me) would be the hackfest and the hallway track...
11:07 Viktor true
11:07 Viktor Trying out a new idea:
11:07 Viktor I see a lot of failed searches since people post to the wrong part of the search bar
11:08 Viktor How about if when a search fails in the staff interface the search term is left in the bar and you can search another part of the interface by just clicking the relevant tab?
11:09 magnuse sounds good to me
11:09 magnuse i have that problem sometimes too
11:09 magnuse i think there is actually one search box/form per tab though
11:09 Viktor Ok. Then I guess it might be relevant. I was afraid that it was just when you are new to it that it's a problem.
11:09 magnuse so youd have to put the search term in each of them
11:10 Viktor I guess it could be done with javascript and some DOM-manipulation?
11:12 magnuse probably
11:12 magnuse did we set a deadline for the kohacon14 proposals?
11:13 kf xyes
11:13 magnuse ah found it
11:13 magnuse kohacon14?
11:13 magnuse kohacon14 is submissions due by 15 September, voting to commence first week of October
11:13 magnuse kohacon14?
11:13 wahanui kohacon14 is submissions due by 15 September, voting to commence first week of October
11:16 * magnuse adds it to the next irc meeting, as a reminder
11:17 * magnuse goes back to munging Viktor's data
11:17 Viktor magnuse++
12:08 oleonard Hi #koha
12:10 magnuse kia ora oleonard
12:12 oleonard Got your GBSD whip ready magnuse?
12:17 kf :)
12:17 kf if not i can help out
12:19 magnuse oleonard: oh yes!
12:25 oleonard The whip!
12:26 oleonard wahanui: The whip! is <reply> http://i.imgur.com/SE12zHB.png
12:26 wahanui i already had it that way, oleonard.
12:26 oleonard wahanui, is the exclamation point giving you troubles?
12:36 kf wahanui - oleonard asked you a queston1
12:36 wahanui kf: i'm not following you...
12:36 kf hm.
12:37 oleonard wahanui: forget The whip!
12:37 wahanui oleonard, I didn't have anything matching whip
12:37 oleonard wahanui: forget The whip
12:37 wahanui oleonard, I didn't have anything matching whip
12:37 oleonard wahanui: The whip is <reply> http://i.imgur.com/SE12zHB.png
12:37 wahanui OK, oleonard.
12:37 oleonard The whip
12:37 wahanui http://i.imgur.com/SE12zHB.png
12:37 oleonard The whip!
12:37 wahanui http://i.imgur.com/SE12zHB.png
12:37 * oleonard shrugs
12:41 marcelr gbsd seems to be a hit
12:45 kf marcelr: it just started in kiribati :)
12:45 kf it hasn't even reached europe yet
12:46 marcelr yes: i was in kiribati still am btw
12:46 marcelr but this signoff goes in the failed qa direction unfortunately
12:46 marcelr bug 9312
12:46 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9312 minor, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Needs Signoff , strict perl for picture-upload.pl
12:47 kf ah
12:47 kf it happens :(
12:50 marcelr but citing the famous magnuse, this bug is moving
12:52 oleonard If it's still moving, step on it again!
12:53 kf lol
12:53 marcelr ah
12:56 druthb o/
12:57 kf hi druthb
12:58 druthb :)
12:59 tcohen \o hi druthb kf
12:59 kf hi tcohen :)
13:04 druthb hi, tcohen!
13:36 jcamins I think the "sysprefs.sql is boring to rebase bug may be a little counter-productive.
13:40 magnuse which bug is that?
13:40 magnuse and didn't we almost have a new db update system - what happened to that?
13:41 jcamins Bug 10610.
13:41 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10610 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , sysprefs.sql is really boring to rebase
13:43 drojf meh. write mail to koha list, remember i can't send from that email address from the university network when i'm done.
13:43 jcamins drojf: save it as a draft?
13:43 drojf i did
13:44 drojf i suppose there will be a few other "no it's not KOHA" mails before i will be able to send it :D
13:47 magnuse jcamins: hopefully it will be beneficial in the long run? :-=
13:48 magnuse s/=/)/
13:48 jcamins Let's hope.
13:55 Joubu jcamins: why do you think that about sysprefs.sql ?
13:55 Joubu Sure, that will cause some conflicts in a first time (for already submitted patches). But it should avoid a lot of conflicts for others.
13:56 jcamins Joubu: because instead of having to rebase sysprefs.sql, we now simply can't apply patches that change it at all.
13:56 jcamins And if they do apply, it's hard to figure out what the patch was supposed to add.
13:57 Joubu Yes, it will not be easy ... in a first time :)
13:58 gmcharlt jcamins: FWIW, I'll take care of any merge conflicts on stuff that's already been added
13:58 Joubu the "easy" method is to c/p the syspref added by the patch and to add it to the sysprefs.sql file from master
13:58 gmcharlt I'm not sure what you mean by " we now simply can't apply patches that change it at all."
14:00 jcamins gmcharlt: sha1 is missing errors.
14:00 jcamins So only the original author can rebase, it looks like.
14:00 * jcamins is rebasing all his outstanding patches as we speak.
14:01 kf Joubu: the problem with that is that you have to reformat the sql
14:01 kf you can' just jopy
14:01 kf hm can#t just copy
14:01 kf i think if we had kept the single insert into's it would have been a little eaiser
14:01 kf i already rebased one of those and you have to be quite careful
14:01 Joubu jcamins: hum... weird, I didn't get this error, just a big conflicts (tested with others patches than mine)
14:02 jcamins kf: was it your patch? If not, how did you get it to apply?
14:02 kf i had a conflict too
14:02 kf I didn't get the error message
14:02 kf it was kyle#s lost item stuff
14:02 jcamins My problem wasn't a conflict. It was an absolute refusal to apply the patch.
14:02 kf adding 2 new system preferences
14:03 jcamins Hm, so maybe other people just have merge conflicts.
14:03 jcamins That's good.
14:03 kf [off] we shouldn't let him to the EIFL thing.
14:03 jcamins [off] rangi said he would do it, I think.
14:04 kf [off] hm that's good
14:04 oleonard [off] "Koha.org? Yeah, probably the same thing. Go ahead and use that one."
14:04 oleonard [off] ^^ nightmare scenario
14:04 gmcharlt [off] I've been seeing signs that a general reminder of recent history may be in order
14:05 jcamins Oops.
14:05 jcamins I just ran cat koha-error.log.
14:06 gmcharlt jcamins: terrible thing to feed Myshkin
14:06 gmcharlt ;)
14:06 jcamins lol
14:06 kf lol
14:06 drojf lol
14:08 drojf now i see what the mobile internet is for. sending my emails that are blocked by university :D
14:08 * drojf switches back
14:15 drojf what happened to the trademark issue btw.? i remember someone saying it should be over "soon", that was some time ago
14:15 kf i think it's not over yet
14:18 drojf :(
14:18 kf you'd have to ask rangi I think
14:34 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
14:35 mtompset [off] I have a new person that frustrates me.
14:37 tcohen jcamins: does dedup_records.pl depend on a DOM setup?
14:37 jcamins tcohen: yes.
14:38 jcamins Well...
14:38 jcamins no.
14:38 jcamins But you should use DOM for authorities because the GRS-1 configuration for MARC21 authorities is iffy.
14:38 tcohen ok, that's the default a while ago anyway
14:38 jcamins Not an issue with UNIMARC, where the GRS-1 configuration is up-to-date.
14:40 tcohen is it ok to sign even if i didn't test with {uni|nor}marc data?
14:41 jcamins That's up to gmcharlt, but I'd think yes, given the backlog of UNIMARC patches.
14:41 jcamins And NORMARC authorities == MARC21
14:42 gmcharlt tcohen: that's fine -- one can only test what one can test; just make it clear in a comment in the bug that you haven't tested with UINMARC
14:42 * druthb finally has her testing environment set up, and wants to smoke-test a few UNIMARC patches this week.
14:43 gmcharlt druthb++
14:44 druthb I have some rather high-maintenance company in the house right now, so not sure how much I'll get done. But I'll take a swing at some.
14:45 oleonard druthb: Teach them how to use the sandboxes and get them signing off
14:45 gmcharlt heh
14:46 druthb bah. This person is not even close to that sort of level. I wouldn't hire him to shelve books in my library.
14:46 drojf lol
14:49 druthb He'll be here through next Thursday. If I don't put him on a bus home before then out of sheer desperation for some peace and quiet.
14:49 kf druthb++!
14:50 druthb In the time it took me to install an SSL cert last night, and tinker with my webpage to put the comodo logo on it, I had to remind him *thrice* that I was trying to concentrate. grrrrr
14:55 jcamins Hey, is it a known issue that the fr-FR PO files are broken in master, again?
14:55 druthb Needy, manic-depressive extroverts, and hyper-busy introverts are a hypergolic mixture. One of us may not survive the week, and I'm bigger.
14:55 kf lol
14:58 oleonard jcamins: Broken as in causing tests to fail? I thought they always were.
14:59 jcamins oleonard: broken as in won't allow me to update them using ./translate update
15:05 gmcharlt jcamins: giving it a go myself
15:06 gmcharlt jcamins: hmm, no errors when I run ./translate fr-FR
15:06 gmcharlt er, ./translate update fr-FR
15:07 jcamins Really? I just ran it on master and was told there was no encoding.
15:08 gmcharlt jcamins: paste?
15:08 wahanui I eat paste! It's tasty! http://paste.koha-community.org
15:09 jcamins Oh, wait. I think I might see the problem.
15:09 jcamins PERL5LIB was set for my other repo.
15:09 jcamins No.
15:09 jcamins Darn.
15:09 pastebot "jcamins" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Translate error" (6 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/182
15:11 druthb wahanui: botsnack paste
15:11 wahanui thanks druthb :)
15:12 drojf mmmh, paste
15:13 mtompset him who?
15:15 jcamins dbs: I'm looking at the results from validator.nu, and it's really unhappy. However, the other validators all seem to like it. Reasonable to ignore validator.nu?
15:15 dbs jcamins: lemme look
15:16 gmcharlt jcamins: OK, one issue I had -- the translation tools really ought to actually complain if gettext is not installed
15:16 gmcharlt after fixing that, I'm now seeing the same issue you are
15:16 dbs jcamins: for context I grabbed a quick bib at http://stuff.coffeecode.net/schema.org/koha/basic_bib.html and have been testing that, but it's very basic. Can you point at a URL?
15:17 jcamins [off] dbs: http://kohadev.cpbibliography.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=2073
15:19 dbs jcamins: ah, there's the holdings, which I wasn't able to test; good, I can see brokenness :)
15:19 * dbs will fix that up & see what else might be going awry
15:20 jcamins Thanks.
15:24 reiveune bye
15:30 dbs jcamins: fixed the terrible holdings error and pushed a commit for that
15:35 jcamins dbs: looks good now.
15:37 dbs jcamins: And.... advice from #rdfa is to shuffle the span elements back outside of the a elements to avoid unwanted default chaining. So, once more into the breach.
15:39 kf bye all :)
15:45 pastebot "tcohen" at 172.16.248.213 pasted "jcamins: the output" (98 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/183
15:51 dbs jcamins: okay, I swear that's the last commit in this rapid-fire iteration. If you are feeling brave and want to try again, I suspect validator.nu will be much happier.
15:52 dbs (Well, it's unhappy about many other preexisting things, but nothing I've introduced)
15:53 jcamins Right.
15:53 tcohen does anyone know what this means in zebrasrv log? [log] Unknown esetname 'marc'
15:53 jcamins Yup, looks like everything is happy.
15:53 dbs rdfa.info/play and the rdfa.info/tools python and ruby rdfa validators are happy, as is google rich snippets
15:56 jcamins Okay, I'm going to sign off and attach it to the bug.
15:59 dbs jcamins: sweet! thanks for making my first real steps in #koha so welcoming! also gmcharlt++ and rangi++ for pointers over the last 24 hours
16:04 pastebot "gmcharlt" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "the downside of writing a new test" (678 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/184
16:05 gmcharlt jcamins: ^^
16:07 jcamins Ouch.
16:08 pastebot "gmcharlt" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "corrected version that gets the sense right" (563 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/185
16:08 gmcharlt bit less ouchy, but still ouch
16:17 oleonard Working on the OPAC holds page again: http://www.screencast.com/t/VcnaiTlu
16:18 mtompset How do I "Set the MARC framework to use "upload.pl" plugin for 856$u"?
16:19 gmcharlt oleonard: I like it
16:19 oleonard mtompset: Edit the MARC subfield structure for 856$u maybe?
16:19 oleonard mtompset: That's where you set other plugins for subfields.
16:21 mtompset Ah... there it is... I don't usually navigate the interface. :)
16:23 mtompset oleonard++ # Koha administration ->MARC bibliographic framework ->MARC structure for a framework code -> search for 856 -> Subfields ->Edit for 'u' -> Other Options -> plugin value setting.
16:38 oleonard [off] It's like people are deliberately oblivious...
16:39 gmcharlt [off] that, or (to be charitable) it's time to take another look at how well we do guiding people to the better path
16:40 oleonard [off] In this case I mean oblivious to the fact that the last few messages to the list were about installation instructions
16:41 jcamins [off] If you can't find the INSTALL file in the tarball, or instructions that have been discussed on the mailing list in the last day, or the instructions linked from the top of the download page, I don't think you really get much charity.
16:45 oleonard mtompset keeps a cool head
16:45 gmcharlt [off] perhaps -- but I think it useful to check every now and again whether there's a process issue. I admit that the current person, who has been subscribed to the list since at least the 14th, does not appear to be reading the responses he's gotten before
16:47 oleonard GMail used to warn people when they were sending emails without subjects. Apparently people complained about that enough that Google dropped the warning.
16:48 gmcharlt jcamins: http://git.librarypolice.com/?p=koha-galen.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/po-errors
16:50 mtompset Actually, I only just now noticed mirko's reply.
16:51 mtompset Sometimes, I just don't have time to see who is actually reading responses.
16:51 rambutan Who would think that an ILS mailing list and corresponding chat channel could be so entertaining?
16:52 gmcharlt quick, we're too funny around here! back to the RDA salt mines!
16:53 gmcharlt mtompset: yeah, nothing wrong at all about just responding to a question as asked -- sometimes repetition does eventually get the answer through
16:55 * druthb waves to mtompset.
16:58 mtompset Greetings, druthb. :)
17:03 gaetan_B bye !
17:07 * drojf confuses the hell out of some unknown nz person :D
17:10 rambutan I am not from NZ
17:11 drojf lol
17:11 drojf i had a typo in a phone number and told someone in BZ to meet me at a station in berlin
17:11 drojf s/BZ/NZ
17:12 drojf i wonder if s/he will come :)
17:15 mtompset [off] This person on the mailing list is asking about setting up Liblime's version. DOH! Told him that I couldn't help him if he wished to use liblime's version.
17:16 oleonard [off] direct reply to you?
17:24 mtompset [off] Yes.
18:36 mtompset Are tests supposed to be 644 or 755?
18:38 jcamins .t -> 755
18:38 jcamins Well... usually.
18:40 mtompset I was just asking, because I was creating the backport by hand from reading the patch files, and I noticed I had forgotten to chmod one or two .pl files.
18:40 mtompset and then I thought, oh what about the test files.
19:04 rambutan make up my mind meliss
19:05 mtompset rambutan: Don't you mean make up your mind, meliss?
19:06 rambutan I'm more concerned about my state of mind frankly. :)
19:07 rambutan I have two open cans of diet Canada Dry and one open can of Diet Dr. Pepper, and I can't decide which is the current version I should be drinking
19:07 rambutan ah, the one on the right seems to be a bit cooler than the other two
19:07 rambutan see what I have to deal with here?
19:22 rangi hmmm
19:23 jcamins Is it too late to tell you that you shouldn't read your e-mail?
19:27 rangi yeah :(
19:28 jcamins Whoops.
19:29 jcamins On the plus side, dbs' schema.org microdata is awesome.
19:29 dbs *ahem* RDFa Lite :)
19:30 * dbs prefers the non-inflammatory "structured data" (although that might inflame the MARC folks)
19:31 rangi :-)
19:31 rangi dbs: ive already done that, with my rda tweet, you're all good
19:42 dbs rangi++
19:42 oleonard In other news, trying to track back-and-forth conversations on the Twitter site is a terrible experience.
19:42 rangi it sure is
19:43 oleonard From what I could tell you didn't get any convincing counterarguments about RDA?
19:43 rangi didnt convince me
19:44 rangi i think in the end we all came to the conclusion RDA + MARC is a horrible idea
19:44 cait :)
19:44 rangi and that RDA + bibframe is potentially a good idea
19:44 rangi but the more they poke at it, the less good it will be
19:45 rangi (that last bit might be just my cynicism)
19:45 oleonard So we should all forget about RDA until bibframe is ready? I like forgetting about things.
19:45 rangi thats my theory
19:45 jcamins dbs: you've been following the bibframe discussion, haven't you?
19:46 rangi investing money into it now, prolongs marc dependency
19:46 rangi cold turkey man
19:46 rangi its the only way :)
19:46 jcamins If you have, you what I understand is a terrible misapprehension.
20:28 oleonard Later #koha
21:04 * wizzyrea just read email... wow.
21:05 wizzyrea i think RDA in MARC is a bad idea. It's like forcing a human to wear horseshoes
21:05 wizzyrea not that anyone asked my opinion, but there it is.
21:06 wizzyrea also good morning
21:07 wizzyrea bug squashing day!
21:08 wizzyrea hoo boy
21:08 wizzyrea dashboard?
21:08 wahanui i think dashboard is at http://dashboard.koha-community.org/
21:10 wizzyrea version control using git?
21:10 wahanui hmmm... version control using git is at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
21:13 cjh he didn't seem so sure about that one.
21:16 wizzyrea hehe
21:22 rangi back
21:29 dbs jcamins: I've been following BIBFRAME a bit, enough to feel like it might be going off the rails, but that's based on a heavy dose of ignorance on my part
21:31 cait good night all :)
21:31 jcamins Is someone who is more of an expert in public library fine policies going to respond to that message on the list?
21:33 rangi dunno, im not
21:34 wizzyrea which one?
21:34 wahanui which one is that? The fixed navbar?
21:35 jcamins About the cron job.
21:35 rangi not running hte cron job
21:35 jcamins I'm pretty sure that it translates to "we would like to have a tax on poor and computer illiterate people."
21:35 jcamins I'm testing now.
21:36 * wizzyrea is totally not seeing the message
21:36 jcamins Ah, no.
21:36 jcamins Good news.
21:36 wahanui good news is it looks like it's running properly.
21:36 jcamins It translates to "we won't be using fines."
21:36 jcamins Oh.
21:36 jcamins Unless we have a syspref that I sensibly disabled.
21:37 rangi there is one, for calculating fines on return
21:37 rangi not sure if its in 3.10.x tho
21:38 jcamins I had calculate fines on return turned on and it still didn't charge fines.
21:38 jcamins I see that as a good thing.
21:39 jcamins I mean, not a thing-that-I-would-have-expected, but better than a fine-on-being-poor-or-computer-illiterate.
21:39 wizzyrea ...is this a recent message?
21:39 wizzyrea never mind,
21:40 * wizzyrea goes to do something else.
21:40 jcamins Oh, never mind.
21:40 wahanui Good, I'm glad you figured it out. I didn't understand, and probably never will, being a bot.
21:40 jcamins I have fines capped at $0.
21:42 jcamins Yeah, sorry folks, that was lousy initial testing on my part.
21:42 Lee_in_Butte Hey there Kohafriends just demoing this IRC for Colin
21:42 rangi heya Lee_in_Butte
21:43 gmcharlt hi Lee_in_Butte
21:43 wizzyrea hi Lee_in_Butte
21:43 Lee_in_Butte hey Guys!
21:43 Lee_in_Butte and girls
21:43 Lee_in_Butte !!
21:43 jcamins Should I be less appalled than I am?
21:45 rangi jcamins: not sure
21:45 jcamins But... no one else is appalled?
21:46 jcamins That's probably a sign that I am overreacting.
21:47 rangi i didnt pay enough attention to be anything :)
21:47 jcamins I will summarize.
21:48 jcamins Someone asked on the list about turning off the fine cron job and (as I gather) just using the fine-on-return for fines.
21:48 jcamins The reason for this is to make it possible for people to renew their books on the OPAC.
21:48 * wizzyrea still doesn't see the message
21:48 jcamins Since the cron job is turned off, that means anyone with a computer at home won't be charged fines, and anyone without a computer, or without the computer savvy to renew their books themselves, will be.
21:49 gmcharlt wizzyrea: http://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2013-August/037111.html
21:49 jcamins And that is wrong, Wrong, WRONG, WRONG!!!! That is antithetical to all that a library should stand for.
21:49 jcamins That is...
21:49 rangi oh yeah
21:49 rangi true
21:49 * jcamins actually doesn't have anything else.
21:49 wizzyrea well, ok so ... the borrower won't *know* that there are fines until they return the book
21:50 wizzyrea presumably the fines will be assessed when the books are returned?
21:50 jcamins NO!!!!
21:50 Lee_in_Butte Colin will be setting up a Kohacon program app for us.We will have it ready to preview next week at the IRC meeting for Kohacon 13. Look for him logging in here in the near future.
21:50 jcamins Only for the poor, disadvantaged people.
21:50 jcamins The rich, computer-savvy people won't get charged fines.
21:50 wizzyrea but the poor disadvantaged ones can still renew at the library?
21:50 wizzyrea and won't get fines?
21:51 jcamins I believe they will get fined, yes.
21:51 gmcharlt sounds like a hole that could be filled with a calculate-accrued-fines-before-renewing patch?
21:51 rangi Lee_in_Butte: excellent
21:51 jcamins I will test more.
21:51 * wizzyrea is not for punishing people who don't have internet access, mind
21:52 wizzyrea ... I think this might be a people problem at the library, not a technological one.
21:52 jcamins I agree.
21:53 * gmcharlt is also for assuming good faith on the part of folks asking questions on the mailing list unless proven otherwise
21:53 wizzyrea well "allow renewals over the fine limit" might do it too
21:53 jcamins I'm suggesting the allow renewals over the fine limit option.
21:53 gmcharlt for one thing, I could envision scenarios where the exact time of day that the cronjob is run might affect things
21:54 wizzyrea but in truth
21:54 wizzyrea I think they are *imagining* customer service issues
21:54 wizzyrea and perhaps, if you are reaching the threshold so quickly, it's time to lower your fines :P
21:55 Lee_in_Butte thanks for the excellent demo you peeps. Hey Liz are you coming to Kohacon? would love to see you and the boys!
21:55 wizzyrea borrowers aren't a source of income, they're your reason to exist.
21:55 wizzyrea not this year
21:55 gmcharlt well, we actually don't know what the issues are ... the question could certainly stand a bit of unpacking
21:56 * jcamins has taken out his horror over the suggestion on you folks, and written a polite response for the list.
22:00 wizzyrea you did say the magic word that will at least make them stop and think, hopefully
22:01 wizzyrea "digital divide"
22:02 jcamins That's my hope.
22:05 * gmcharlt adds "adding logic to calculate accrued fines" on demand to a list of strings to pull on, time permitting
22:05 gmcharlt er, move the second quotation mark two words to the right
22:05 wizzyrea :)
22:08 * Lee_in_Butte slaps Lee_in_Butte around a bit with a large fishbot
22:09 Lee_in_Butte ha lar ious!
22:27 * wizzyrea hates troutslap
22:27 jcamins ?
22:28 jcamins Huh. I never knew there was such a command.
22:28 wizzyrea what's the difference between staffaccess and permissions
22:28 wizzyrea in the... permissions
22:28 wizzyrea staffaccess Allow staff members to modify permissions for other staff members
22:28 wizzyrea permissions Allow staff members to modify permissions for other staff members
22:29 wizzyrea these things read the same to me?
22:30 jcamins wizzyrea: I think permissions is wrong.
22:30 jcamins I think staffaccess is necessary to set permissions > than the current user's permissions.
22:30 wizzyrea I think permissions does it for users that are not category staff
22:30 jcamins Maybe.
22:30 wizzyrea ?
22:30 jcamins That may be too.
22:31 wizzyrea not sure. either way, those descriptions are wrong. or one is anyway
22:31 gmcharlt wizzyrea: the stock description for 'permissions' is Set user permissions
22:32 gmcharlt but looks like permissions == set permissions at all
22:32 gmcharlt and staffaccess == for users whose category's type is S
22:34 wizzyrea oh cool then it's just me
22:34 wizzyrea that's reassuring :)
22:35 * wizzyrea will double check that nothing untoward is happing at say, DB update time.
22:36 wizzyrea in regards to that
22:36 wizzyrea cuz 'm not not sure how mine got that way
22:36 wizzyrea but I was mucking about in there, it's not inconceivable that I did that myself :)
22:39 gmcharlt yes
22:40 gmcharlt (er, that was in response to something else)
22:44 gmcharlt wizzyrea: it's not just you
22:45 wizzyrea that means it's still probably my fault heh.
22:45 * wizzyrea will file a bug and self flagellate
22:46 * wizzyrea will poke at that here in a couple of mins
22:47 gmcharlt wizzyrea: oddly enough... look at commit 79e8b928ab
22:47 * wizzyrea gets the flail
22:48 mtompset wizzyrea: there is no relationship between category and permissions.
22:48 mtompset At least in my hunting around.
22:49 gmcharlt mtompset: er, in the very thing we've been talking about, vis-a-vis staffacess, there is
22:49 mtompset in koha?
22:49 gmcharlt in that staffaccess is required to change the pemrissions of a user whose category has a type of S
22:50 mtompset But conversely, if you set someone to S, it doesn't affect default permissions for the patron.
22:50 wizzyrea no, it doesn't
22:50 wizzyrea but it does change who can change their permissions.
22:50 jcamins No, there are no role-based permissions, but that's a different issue.
22:51 mtompset okay... I'll go back to picking through files with a fine tooth comb, to make sure I got the 6874 applicable.
22:53 wizzyrea I guess then we need to decide what the title for permissions should be
22:54 wizzyrea "set user permissions" I guess.
22:54 gmcharlt how about: "Set user permissions. To set permissions for staff users, staffacess is required as well."?
22:54 wizzyrea heyyyy I like that.
22:54 * wizzyrea will make it so.
22:54 * gmcharlt braces for the Picard maneuver
22:55 wizzyrea loool
22:56 wizzyrea http://yodaismybackpack.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/engage.gif
22:56 gmcharlt wizzyrea++
22:57 * wizzyrea was hoping to find one of the actual maneuver
22:57 wizzyrea ^ was easier
22:57 wizzyrea http://fi.somethingawful.com/safs/titles/9a/42/00158580.0001.gif
22:58 wizzyrea http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb455/lurok91/GIFS/tumblr_m95h87351V1qchwd9o2_250.gif ?
22:58 * wizzyrea is terrifically amused now
22:59 gmcharlt http://www.decipherperth.net/public/FirstEdition/Tactics/Picard%20Maneuver.gif
23:19 wizzyrea gmcharlt++
23:47 mtompset Greetings, dcook.
23:58 dcook hey ya mtompset