Time  Nick         Message
23:52 mtompset     Yes, it does.
23:51 jcamins      Nah, that code predates 3+.
23:51 rangi        they probably just copied and pasted from an old file
23:51 mtompset     I'm trying to back port to 3.12.x, so I can use the functionality before 3.14 (if it makes it in).
23:50 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC
23:50 mtompset     bug 6874 -- the author has code which is 2 or later.
23:49 rangi        unless it is changed
23:49 rangi        it cant be released with koha
23:49 rangi        without the or later
23:49 rangi        if its 2
23:49 rangi        otherwise its still 2 or later
23:49 rangi        when its bundled with koha it becomes 3 or later
23:49 rangi        if its 2 or later
23:48 mtompset     Do they need to change it to 3 or later?
23:48 mtompset     What if someone writes a modules releasing it under GPL 2 or later for Koha.
23:48 rangi        was 2+ before that (so its all 3 as well if you want)
23:48 rangi        from 3.12 yeah 3+
23:47 mtompset     Question: Koha is GPL 3, right?
23:47 dcook        Hmm, I might have to keep that in mind
23:43 rangi        its great for testing/showing something
23:43 rangi        you get 3 applications
23:43 dcook        Sweeet
23:42 rangi        thats what im doing
23:42 dcook        So I could sign up for  the free version and just putz around a bit?
23:42 dcook        Whoa...if I'm reading this right...they have a free version and a premium version?
23:41 tcohen       is it the answer to Juju? (or vice-versa)
23:40 rangi        handy
23:40 rangi        ie it runs it through jenkins, if it fails, it wont deploy
23:40 jcamins      Nice!
23:39 rangi        http://paste.koha-community.org/180
23:39 wizzyrea     I am seriously envious of their documentation site: http://openshift.github.io/documentation/
23:39 tcohen       its RedHat's OpenStack product
23:39 jcamins      Microsoft has one on Windows Azure. I don't think I could recommend it.
23:38 wizzyrea     and you can run your own? am I reading that right?
23:38 rangi        openshift also does this
23:38 jcamins      Yeah, I've heard of heroku a lot.
23:38 rangi        heroku is ok too
23:37 rangi        openshift has about the best perl support
23:37 rangi        yep
23:37 jcamins      There are a bunch of services like that, aren't there?
23:37 rangi        service even
23:37 rangi        platform as a server
23:37 wizzyrea     oh that *is* interesting
23:37 jcamins      Another one of those deploy-via-git development services?
23:37 rangi        redhats PAAS
23:37 jcamins      what is OpenShift?
23:37 jcamins      Ummm...
23:37 dcook        I was thinking it might be the dashboard..hmm
23:37 wahanui      other stuff is, like, cool too
23:37 rangi        and other stuff
23:36 rangi        it runs the dashboard
23:36 dcook        dancer sounds familiar..
23:35 wizzyrea     hmmm
23:35 rangi        check this out
23:35 rangi        + dancer
23:35 rangi        https://www.openshift.com/
23:34 rangi        openshift
23:34 rangi        i tel you what is cool tho
23:34 tcohen       hehe
23:33 rangi        and wreck them all!
23:33 dcook        Own all the things!
23:32 rangi        its what they do
23:32 rangi        they'll wreck it
23:32 rangi        oracle own it now
23:31 dcook        tcohen: Sounds interesting
23:30 tcohen       ksplice is free for Ubuntu? gotta give it a try
23:29 mtompset     I blame virtualbox. :)
23:29 mtompset     Fix my networking. I just rebooted the VM, all is good. Don't know why though.
23:29 jcamins      What are you trying to do?
23:28 rangi        http://www.debian.org/mirror/list
23:28 mtompset     debian, actually. :)
23:27 tcohen       repository for what mtompset ? Debian? Ubuntu?
23:27 tcohen       perl -i -pe  's/ca.ubuntu/ar.ubuntu/g' /etc/apt/suorces.list  :-P
23:26 rangi        there are as many possibilites as there are grains of sand
23:26 wizzyrea     what's the problem you're trying to solve?
23:26 mtompset     Well, where do I get a list of possibilities?
23:26 tcohen       a perl oneliner maybe?
23:26 rangi        edit those files
23:25 mtompset     is there a way to re-select it?
23:25 wahanui      Hmm.  No matches for that, rangi.
23:25 rangi        and whatever is in /etc/apt/sources.lists.d/
23:25 rangi        its wahtever you have in your /etc/apt/sources.list
23:25 mtompset     well, you select it on install.
23:25 rangi        there is no such thing as a default in that case
23:25 mtompset     sudo apt-get update...
23:25 rangi        do you mean git remote?
23:24 rangi        what do you mean default repository?
23:24 mtompset     I was hoping for a command line type of command.
23:24 * dcook      is so lost at the moment
23:24 mtompset     and where is a list?
23:24 tcohen       %s/old_one/new_one/g
23:24 tcohen       found jcamins' blue cat http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/blogs/moatas-blog-idle/9022682/Another-week-on-planet-Earth
23:23 mtompset     is there a nice way to change the default repository one is using?
23:23 rangi        lots
23:23 rangi        yep
23:22 tcohen       several hosts?
23:21 rangi        in front of apache
23:21 rangi        http://www.stuff.co.nz/ has varnish and nginx
23:21 rangi        ahh right
23:20 tcohen       (just because our sysadmins don't want to try an event-based http server)
23:20 rangi        yeah
23:19 tcohen       and load balancing
23:19 tcohen       we ended up putting an haproxy in front of our apache's
23:18 tcohen       heh, been there
23:18 rangi        it just hits swap, and we are dead in the water
23:17 rangi        i can overwhelm apache with 100 concurrent requests
23:17 rangi        i OOM my testing box before i OOM the nginx server
23:17 rangi        the main win for me with nginx, is the much lower memory footprint
23:17 rangi        yep
23:16 tcohen       this is the main problem: http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html
23:12 rangi        http://www.theorganicagency.com/apache-vs-nginx-performance-comparison/ is quite interesting
23:12 rangi        it also does a ton more too
23:11 rangi        apache2 is way way way behind
23:11 rangi        nginx is seriously fast
23:10 tcohen       the event module should not be that slower that nginx/lighttpd
23:10 tcohen       is there a benchmark for apache + mod_itk?
23:04 maximep      anyway gtg... noting to ask sysadmins about it tomorrow to learn more =)
23:03 maximep      but what isn't :P
23:02 rangi        it would be a ton faster vs apache tho
23:02 rangi        yeah it wouldnt vs nginx
23:02 maximep      didn't notice much speed diff vs nginx
23:02 rangi        to get the staff side fast
23:02 rangi        but yes, you cna do magic with sessions/cookies too
23:02 maximep      ok
23:02 rangi        which is 90% of the opac
23:02 maximep      our sysadmins do magic with it, but not sure I understand it yet -_-
23:02 rangi        by default it speeds up everything where people arent logged in
22:59 maximep      dont you have to do a lot of configuration in varnish to make it useful, ie to be used for anything with sessions ?
22:30 rangi        but varnish is a cache
22:29 rangi        probably about the same
22:29 jcamins      And varnish is a lot faster than nginx?
22:29 rangi        without doign anything
22:29 rangi        = really fast
22:29 rangi        just that + varnish
22:29 rangi        nope
22:28 mtompset     *sigh* Just when I thought I had something done, I realized that a missing piece is probably hiding in one of the 56 obsolete'd patches. ARG!
22:28 tcohen       any problem with that rangi?
22:27 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10411 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Stable , Add cache control headers to static resources in the apache config
22:27 rangi        bug 10411
22:23 tcohen       we've just reached 409 in the koha-es list
22:23 tcohen       how many members does the koha list have?
22:02 gmcharlt     g'night!
22:01 rangi        mtompset++
22:01 cait         good night all
22:01 cait         but for now i go to sleep :)
22:01 cait         i had problems with setting up caching in thepast - for testing i will need some help when you are done :)
22:01 jcamins      Darn. I should've started cooking wheatberries an hour ago.
22:01 cait         :)
22:00 jcamins      Sounds good to me.
22:00 rangi        im down with that
21:59 huginn`      03Attachment http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/attachment.cgi?id=11400&action=edit patch, Bug 8089: Use Koha::Cache for all caching, Bug-8089-Use-KohaCache-for-all-caching.patch
21:59 gmcharlt     jcamins: my inclination is to unobsolute attachment 11400, write some test cases, and have another go
21:55 jcamins      Sadly, the better patch never materialized.
21:55 gmcharlt     snap
21:54 gmcharlt     yeah, what was the diposition of http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/attachment.cgi?id=9577 ?
21:54 jcamins      We decided to revert it because dpavlin said he was working on a better patch.
21:54 jcamins      Ohhh. I see.
21:54 rangi        brb coffee
21:53 jcamins      Oh, patch included.
21:53 jcamins      gmcharlt: yeah, that's my report.
21:53 rangi        and one using plain old memoize
21:53 rangi        6 using memoize_memcached
21:53 rangi        in total
21:53 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8089 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , Use Koha::Cache everywhere
21:53 rangi        7 subroutines
21:53 gmcharlt     or heck, just read the  first comment  in bug 8089 for the list :)
21:52 jcamins      Yeah, I remember patching those. We ran into problems on C4::SQLHelper, but fixed them.
21:52 rangi        so 4 modules
21:52 rangi        and C4::SQLHelper
21:52 gmcharlt     git-fetch jcamins-brain
21:52 rangi        C4::Koha
21:52 jcamins      And I have no idea where it is.
21:52 gmcharlt     jcamins: also C4/Biblio.pm
21:52 jcamins      I wrote a patch that did.
21:51 gmcharlt     any pending patches that do more than just the syspref cache?
21:51 rangi        we used to anyway
21:51 rangi        C4/Languages
21:51 jcamins      Where are we using memoize?
21:51 gmcharlt     hmm, wait
21:51 jcamins      Hm.
21:51 jcamins      I'm a little confused.
21:51 jcamins      Wait...
21:50 gmcharlt     jcamins: I'll take a look at it
21:49 * rangi      defers to gmcharlt
21:49 jcamins      Well... it falls back if there's no other option. But I think my thought was that the failures might have been because on Squeeze memcached::fast doesn't work.
21:49 rangi        well they seem to pass for me, i wonder if its worth pushing it up to jenkins and seeing if he still hates it
21:49 jcamins      Yeah.
21:49 rangi        and we have since switched to Fast eh?
21:48 rangi        hmm
21:48 jcamins      I think my theory is that we may have been running afoul of the fact that the regular memcached library for Perl is BROKEN.
21:47 rangi        they work on my ubuntu, ill have to test on squeeze too
21:47 rangi        yeah
21:47 jcamins      Both late in terms of release cycle, and late in terms of I was probably tired because the problem appeared at 10pm.
21:46 jcamins      The tests passed for me, but not on jenkins, or on a second Squeeze VM I tried them on, and it was late, so I reverted.
21:46 rangi        ohh its applies clean still
21:46 jcamins      I couldn't figure out why it was failing, actually.
21:46 rangi        can you remember what the problem with squeeze was?
21:45 * rangi      has a quick play with the patch
21:45 rangi        follow up would be the memoize_memcached
21:45 rangi        yep thats part of it, killing the sysprefs
21:44 rangi        oh yeah
21:44 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8089 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , Use Koha::Cache everywhere
21:44 jcamins      Bug 8089
21:44 jcamins      There is the patch I abandoned.
21:43 gmcharlt     OK, so are there any patches pending to completely drop direct memcached access?
21:43 jcamins      Easily.
21:43 rangi        the Koha::Cache can do Memcached, FastMmap and Memory now, and could put Redis in there without much effort too
21:40 rangi        another reason for memoize_memcached to die
21:40 jcamins      I chose redis because I was told "you should be using redis."
21:40 rangi        so for sessions, yes
21:40 rangi        redis can write to disk
21:39 jcamins      I don't entirely understand the difference between the two, but redis is pretty impressive.
21:39 gmcharlt     jcamins: which reminds me of a thought that's been wandering all alone through my mind -- redis is arguably a better session store than memcached
21:38 jcamins      I just added redis to Biblionarrator.
21:38 jcamins      No.
21:38 jcamins      lol
21:37 wizzyrea     ^ not koha eh?
21:37 jcamins      But it's hard to resist just paginating back and forth.
21:37 rangi        :)
21:37 jcamins      Okay, doing other things too.
21:37 * jcamins    should know, he's spent the last half hour going back and forth in search results admiring the speed and responsiveness.
21:37 rangi        you could totally make the search results an include (including the rendered xslt)
21:36 gmcharlt     jcamins: not for the coffee producers of the world!
21:36 jcamins      20ms response time on search results *rocks*.
21:36 rangi        http://perldoc.koha-community.org/Koha/Template/Plugin/Cache.html
21:36 jcamins      The next page of search results.
21:36 rangi        yep
21:36 gmcharlt     rendered XSLT output
21:35 rangi        with the TT plugin
21:35 rangi        i made the first one really easy too
21:34 rangi        yep
21:34 gmcharlt     and the MARC frameworks, which are indeed expensive to recalculate
21:34 rangi        makes sense to me
21:34 rangi        and the output of things like the getlanguages
21:33 rangi        caching the rendered html snippets
21:33 jcamins      If you're worried about syspref queries, reduce the number of times you query the same syspref.
21:33 rangi        jcamins: exactly, apache will asplode well before mysql
21:33 jcamins      rangi: yeah, but with sysprefs, that doesn't even apply, because scalability is only a reasonable argument if you're preloading, and it takes days to make up for the expense, especially with Apache.
21:33 rangi        ie you can test it works easily
21:32 rangi        gmcharlt: id be fine with it, because its something that is provable
21:32 gmcharlt     in particular, as a possible target for 3.14
21:32 rangi        but even with that in mind, youd struggle to ever reach the point where you overloaded the db with syspref queries
21:32 gmcharlt     how badly would folks be terried at the prospect of koha-conf.xml => zebra-conf.xml + //yazgfs/config from the old koha-conf.xml turning into a simpler text file
21:31 rangi        that it isnt for speed (at least not the first goal) but for scalability
21:31 rangi        im sure ive ranted about caching before too
21:31 gmcharlt     speaking of config
21:31 tcohen       paul's tests concluded caching sysprefs was not worth the trouble, yes
21:31 jcamins      I had to scream and shout in order to get my patch that makes it possible to disable the syspref cache in.
21:31 rangi        mysql can do them faster than we can fetch and deserialize
21:30 rangi        thats what we should be doing, not the result of sql queries
21:30 rangi        caching the output of heavy functions
21:30 gmcharlt     you're telling me!
21:30 jcamins      But, some people are *very attached* to it.
21:30 jcamins      It was a horrible idea.
21:30 gmcharlt     '09
21:30 jcamins      gmcharlt: caching sysprefs is an expensive and wasteful operation.
21:30 rangi        a while, only recently was it fixed to actually ever expire
21:29 tcohen       how long ago was memoize introduced?
21:29 rangi        which was yuck
21:29 gmcharlt     jcamins: cachhing sysprefs have always struck me as potentially the least bang for the buck -- mostly on account of the fact that MySQL does caching too
21:29 rangi        they were doing in perl caching too
21:29 rangi        the sysprefs have/had bigger problems
21:29 rangi        heh
21:28 jcamins      Arguably I should've fixed it, but as patch author and RM, no one had any opportunity to try and make me.
21:28 jcamins      I wrote a patch that changed the sysprefs, but it didn't work on Squeeze, so I reverted it.
21:28 rangi        yeah
21:28 gmcharlt     just a thought
21:28 gmcharlt     rangi: as long as the replacement actually gets done, as opposed to the current incomplete state?
21:28 rangi        :)
21:28 rangi        we could even unit test it ... shock horror!!
21:27 rangi        and replace with saner caching
21:27 rangi        remove all traces of memoize
21:27 rangi        maybe thats a good hackfest task
21:27 rangi        :)
21:27 jcamins      So, those of you who have been thinking "I'd use caching if only I didn't have to call set and get myself, you're in luck.
21:26 jcamins      Oh, yeah, I did push it.
21:26 rangi        *nod*
21:26 jcamins      Well, at the very least, there's an example of a shim object somewhere in bugzilla.
21:26 jcamins      Maybe we don't.
21:26 jcamins      did I push that?
21:26 jcamins      Wait...
21:26 jcamins      And we even have a shim cache *object* for those people who don't want to actually think about caching.
21:26 rangi        we are 80% of the way to sane caching :)
21:25 rangi        exactly
21:25 jcamins      Fortunately we have a cache module that could do that.
21:25 rangi        and do caching proplery
21:25 rangi        unfortunately yes, and we should remove those
21:24 * jcamins    thinks that memcached is mostly unusable anyway thanks to our use of memoize_memcached.
21:24 gmcharlt     (along the lines of regardless of how the settings are passed, it helps if the current cache is actually fully used ;) )
21:24 * cait       gave up on trying to set it up
21:24 tcohen       i'm pretty sure people have mixed settings all over the place, thinking they have a functional memcached setup
21:24 rangi        :)
21:24 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10503 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , incorrect initialization parameters passed to Memoize::Memcached
21:24 * gmcharlt   apropos of nothign at all, whistles the bug 10503 tune
21:23 rangi        but yeah in my spare time someday, mayble ill change the apache config to look at the koha-conf.xml and set its variables
21:23 tcohen       as i see it, this intermediate state is a problem
21:22 rangi        i remember having a spaz when that was changed and losing that fight
21:22 rangi        yep
21:22 tcohen       hi rangi, yes, but currently the code looks for them in apache
21:22 jcamins      rangi: well, sure, but the settings should do something.
21:21 rangi        tcohen: no yours is right, memcache settigns in the httpd conf are wrong :) (imho)
21:21 jcamins      Oh, lovely.
21:21 jcamins      It means looking at C4::Context->config('memcached_servers').
21:21 tcohen       C4/SQLHelper.pm:    my $servers = C4::Context->config('memcached_servers');
21:21 tcohen       it looks like SQLHelper needs those settings on koha-conf.xml, and the rest uses ENV
21:20 tcohen       jcamisn: changing "so that it can be done in koha-conf.xml" means rewrite some stuff, right?
21:19 jcamins      tcohen: I did not look at it.
21:19 tcohen       my memcached for packages patch is wrong then, it relies on koha-conf.xml, which is wrong
21:19 cait         wb
21:18 rangi        back
21:16 jcamins      Excellent!
21:16 wizzyrea     http://koha-community.org/download-koha/
21:16 wizzyrea     I changed the wording slightly here to yet more strongly suggest packages
21:16 jcamins      Though it should be changed so that it can be done in koha-conf.xml, now that it's possible to cache koha-conf even with the settings there.
21:15 jcamins      tcohen: just in Apache at the moment, I think.
21:15 cait         jcamins:  or antipasti
21:15 tcohen       so, memcached config variables are needed in both apache and koha-conf.xml
21:15 cait         jcamins: sounds like salad yes
21:15 gmcharlt     but something that can go away once DBIC is in
21:15 wizzyrea     snap!
21:15 jcamins      Nearly everything.
21:14 gmcharlt     tcohen: some bits here and there, including patron search
21:14 wizzyrea     i seem to recall it had something to do with the borrower search
21:14 tcohen       what is using C4/SQLHelper.pm ? everything?
21:14 wizzyrea     mediterranean salad
21:13 jcamins      What should we have for dinner?
21:13 jcamins      I have 5 tomatoes, 3 cucumbers, 2 tiny bulbs of fennel, and 2 green peppers.
20:54 tcohen       that's possimpible
20:53 jcamins      No, this cat was just blue.
20:53 jcamins      Hehe.
20:52 tcohen       smurf cat?
20:52 cait         ooh
20:52 jcamins      cait: not recently.
20:51 cait         jcamins: are you still visiting the blue cat?
20:51 * cait       sends greetings to myshkin
20:51 cait         lol
20:50 jcamins      lol
20:50 wizzyrea     haha
20:50 gmcharlt     http://opac.zadi.librarypolice.com/feline.txt
20:50 wizzyrea     that way every koha has one ;)
20:50 wizzyrea     we already have a history file, I think, why not use that for humans.txt?
20:49 ibeardslee   wizzyrea: ahh .. good idea
20:48 tcohen       i forgot my own work on putting memcache stuff in apache conf :/
20:48 wizzyrea     ibeardslee: http://humanstxt.org/
20:46 wizzyrea     so much this.
20:46 gmcharlt     and relegate some of the more obscure scenarios down in docs/
20:46 jcamins      +1
20:46 tcohen       lets make standard == packages
20:46 jcamins      The argument for it was that "it'll work on shared hosting," but that is absolutely not the case anymore.
20:46 wizzyrea     ^^^
20:45 gmcharlt     why I'm spitballing is having the top-level install docs be few(er) in number, and focus on the most common, recommended scenarios
20:45 * jcamins    thinks that single should probably be abolished.
20:45 gmcharlt     mtompset: too much, IMO -- at least at the top level
20:45 * mtompset   is going to pick up his son from daycare.
20:44 wizzyrea     no
20:44 ibeardslee   humans.txt = "Ask a non-human sysadmin to read the INSTALL.TXT" ?
20:44 wizzyrea     ;)
20:44 wizzyrea     when myshkin submits a patch, I'll add felines.txt
20:44 mtompset     gmcharlt: INSTALL.{OS}.{dev|standard|single}?
20:44 wizzyrea     kek.
20:44 jcamins      Speaking of humans.txt, Myshkin feels discriminated against.
20:43 cait         humans.txt?
20:43 wizzyrea     speaking of trivial changes, I promised a humans. txt
20:43 gmcharlt     reorganize so that we have INSTALL & INSTALL.special, perhaps?
20:43 mtompset     I would generalize away the git vs. tarball.
20:42 mtompset     oh no... it would be ubuntu specific.
20:42 wizzyrea     you said generalise and I heard "instructions for everybody in one monolith"
20:42 wizzyrea     right - just don't generalise away from distro specific instructions.
20:42 mtompset     you can do a dev install from a tarball.
20:41 mtompset     you can do a standard install from a git directory.
20:41 mtompset     I understand where you are coming from, and would love a INSTALL.ubuntu.git and INSTALL.ubuntu.tar, but the fact is, it isn't about the tar or git... it is about the dev, standard, or single.
20:40 wizzyrea     it's not confusing for people who know what they're doing already
20:40 mtompset     wizzyrea: You are in the minority opinion on that.
20:40 wizzyrea     often that gets really confusing for people.
20:40 mtompset     but I haven't gotten to it yet.
20:40 wizzyrea     mmm yea wouldn't generalise
20:40 mtompset     and then clean up the excessive ubuntu install instruction files.
20:39 mtompset     I'm hoping to generalize to "source based install".
20:39 mtompset     We have an earlier variation of my tarball instructions in the install.ubuntu type files.
20:39 wizzyrea     just sayin.
20:38 wizzyrea     ...perhaps we should use them in install.ubuntu or install.debian instead of what's there?
20:38 drojf        "webapp" is a funny word for an ILS
20:38 mtompset     plus, my tarball instructions are better, but I didn't link to them. ;)
20:37 mtompset     I didn't spend hours on end to write bad instructions, only to have someone confuse the masses. :)
20:36 wizzyrea     mtompset++ even
20:36 drojf        mtompset++
20:36 wizzyrea     for good advice on the mailing list
20:36 wizzyrea     mtompsett++
20:35 cait         doens't he always? :)
20:34 wizzyrea     rangi++ for fighting the good fight with librarians re: RDA
20:23 wahanui      3.4 is, like, Koha 3.4.0 was released 22 April 2011
20:23 mtompset     3.4?
20:18 rangi        right time to go to school
20:13 drojf        [off] i begin to think it is a plot to make the livedvd look better in comparison
20:13 cait         [off] not even loading for me?
20:13 drojf        [off] yes, that one :(
20:12 rangi        [off] the wiki of bad advice? everyday it seems
20:12 drojf        and good morning rdangi ;)
20:10 drojf        [off] how often is that link going to show up now on the list? :/
20:09 rangi        but i seem unabel to make that point
20:09 rangi        i understand RDA could potentially be good ... im just saying that at the moment it isnt :)
20:08 wahanui      thanks druthb :)
20:08 druthb       wahanui:  botsnack RDA proponents.
20:08 druthb       lulz
20:07 jcamins      Unless you're arguing that, in which case, OH MY GOD SOMEONE KIDNAPPED RANGI AND REPLACED HIM WITH AN ALIEN!
20:07 rangi        https://twitter.com/DebsLunch/status/370234771286147073
20:07 jcamins      Who argues that RDA isn't crap?
20:07 rangi        yup
20:07 wahanui      really is off now
20:07 jcamins      rangi: really?
20:06 druthb       lol
20:06 * wahanui    huh, good god y'all, what is it good for, absolutely nothing
20:06 druthb       wahanui:  RDA?
20:06 druthb       lol
20:06 rangi        cos they are still arguing with me on twitter
20:06 rangi        are there any RDA proponents there?
20:06 druthb       suits me, cait.
20:06 cait         morning rangi :)
20:06 * cait       suggests that all koha people move to Konstanz
20:06 rangi        morning
20:05 huginn`      druthb: The current temperature in Briargrove Park, Houston, Texas is 34.7°C (3:05 PM CDT on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 37%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 30.00 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
20:05 cait         you mean not super hot?
20:05 druthb       @wunder 77063
20:05 cait         heh
20:05 druthb       nice and pleasant in Germany!
20:04 huginn`      cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 18.6°C (10:00 PM CEST on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady).
20:04 cait         @wunder Konstanz
19:59 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1383: SUCCESS in 1 hr 13 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1383/
19:46 cait         wizzyrea++
19:45 maximep      man, http://kohadevreactions.tumblr.com/ is the best thing ever -_-
19:33 cait         bgkriegel++ # being an awesome German translator!
19:33 mtompset     I think your rough draft is an impro--vement.
19:32 oleonard     Bye #koha
19:32 mtompset     Bye, tcohen.
19:32 oleonard     Now I will leave.
19:32 cait         with a bit more styling :)
19:32 oleonard     Okay, I will keep tinkering with it... tomorrow.
19:32 cait         oleonard: i think i like yours better :)
19:32 tcohen       heading home to do some rmaint tasks
19:31 tcohen       bye #koha
19:31 mtompset     Hmmm... you lost the title "Place on" related to the radio buttons.
19:31 cait         after the other
19:31 cait         only from one record
19:30 oleonard     http://www.screencast.com/t/t7jeyWMOxi
19:30 mtompset     Nope. :P
19:29 oleonard     Geez don't you guys ever place holds from the OPAC? :P
19:28 mtompset     I did ask about a before shot. ;)
19:28 cait         i have no idea how it looks now actually
19:28 cait         oleonard: i am undecided :(
19:27 mtompset     one more yes and he goes to hollywood. ;)
19:27 gmcharlt     ;)
19:27 mtompset     cait? Is it a yes or no?
19:27 nitpicker    but... but... but...
19:27 gmcharlt     yes
19:26 oleonard     :)
19:26 jcamins      Yes.
19:26 oleonard     Okay, but the VERY GENERAL IDEA people are okay with?
19:26 jcamins      I like the idea, but I think the Edit notes link might be confusing.
19:26 cait         oleonard: i wonde about the edit notes link a bit
19:26 oleonard     gmcharlt: Sure, I just wanted to float the general idea
19:26 * mtompset   nods in agreement with gmcharlt.
19:25 gmcharlt     oleonard: looks OK, but the checkboxes seem to be free-floating; I think they should preceed the title
19:25 mtompset     Is there a before shot?
19:25 cait         hm placing holds for multiple items from the result list?
19:24 tcohen       hi mtompset
19:24 oleonard     So what if I redesigned the OPAC place hold screen? Rough: http://www.screencast.com/t/8w3MrwoYGKHp
19:23 cait         http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/QA_team_meeting,_22_August_2013
19:23 cait         hi mtompset
19:20 mtompset     Greetings, tcohen cait drojf.
19:20 drojf        is it not? maybe i did not try the fun stuff
19:18 jcamins      drojf: are we talking about the same wiki?
19:18 drojf        because it is too easy to use? :)
19:18 cait         mediawiki still puzzles me
19:18 cait         hm
19:17 drojf        "QA_IRC_meeting_<date>" as opposed to "General_IRC_meeting_<date>"?
19:16 * cait       wonders where to put a page for a qa team irc meeting in the wiki
19:15 tcohen       [off] ok ok, just clarifying
19:14 jcamins      [off] Just the LC classification system.
19:14 cait         [off] in general or right now?
19:14 tcohen       [off] is jcamins insulting people?
19:12 jcamins      :P
19:12 jcamins      Ba dum pssshhh.
19:11 jcamins      No, more like stupid stupid.
19:11 mtompset     Or flying purple people eater without punctuation?
19:10 mtompset     general special?! Isn't that like saying stupid smart?
19:09 drojf        bad wahanui, no cookie
19:08 drojf        unfair
19:08 huginn`      drojf: The operation succeeded.
19:08 drojf        @later tell eythian test
19:08 wahanui      o/ '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
19:08 drojf        more confetti?
19:08 wahanui      o/ '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
19:08 drojf        confetti?
19:06 jcamins      Because real people will *totally* understand that.
19:06 jcamins      Rather, LC classification.
19:05 jcamins      My new favorite LCSH classification: "general special."
19:02 wahanui      confetti is http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpm3j6aNaN1qh8hleo1_400.gif
19:02 cait         confetti!
19:02 cait         i have heard there is gbsd this friday? :)
19:02 cait         :)
19:00 huginn`      magnuse: I've exhausted my database of quotes
19:00 magnuse      @confetti!
18:59 wahanui      confetti is, like, http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpm3j6aNaN1qh8hleo1_400.gif
18:59 magnuse      confetti!
18:47 jenkins_koha Starting build #1383 for job Koha_master (previous build: FIXED)
18:45 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10761 normal, P5 - low, ---, kenza.zaki, Pushed to Master , UT: saved_report and delete_report in C4::Reports::Report_Guided.pm need unit tests.
18:45 jenkins_koha Galen Charlton: Bug 10761: (follow-up) remove inadvertant dependence on Perl 5.14
18:45 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1382: FIXED in 1 hr 14 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1382/
18:45 jenkins_koha Yippie, build fixed!
18:37 mtompset     okay. Then I guess hard coding is the way to do it. :)
18:37 jcamins      That is true of most fields, so, based on that snippet, I'm speculating that is true of the 856$u too, yes.
18:36 mtompset     So, the 856$u field gets put into the MARCXML field or something?
18:35 magnuse      Lee_in_Butte: http://kohadevreactions.tumblr.com/post/57054003179/when-someone-we-havent-seen-in-a-while-pops-back
18:35 jcamins      mtompset: at a guess because it doesn't map to a Koha field.
18:34 Lee_in_Butte posted on the listserv by nancy Keener
18:34 jcamins      Ah.
18:34 pastebot     "mtompset" at pasted "Is this good code? Why not use GetMarcFromKohaField in C4::Biblio?" (3 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/179
18:34 Lee_in_Butte There will be an IRC meeting on Wednesday August 28 to update everyone on the KohaCon 13 progress.  Meeting time is 18 UTC.
18:34 oleonard     KohaCon meeting jcamins
18:33 jcamins      There's a meeting on the 28th?
18:33 Lee_in_Butte yeah... nothing else I rather do than hang with you O
18:33 * magnuse    waves to Lee_in_Butte
18:32 mtompset     Still good to know the IRC link is working. :)
18:32 oleonard     It's okay Lee_in_Butte, just hang out til then.
18:32 Lee_in_Butte duh
18:32 Lee_in_Butte not the 21
18:32 Lee_in_Butte LOL sorry its on the 28th
18:32 mtompset     What?! That's not the rules.
18:32 oleonard     You owe *me* a coke!
18:32 oleonard     Didn't say jinx! Jinx!
18:31 mtompset     You owe me a coke. ;)
18:31 mtompset     Meeting?
18:31 oleonard     meeting?
18:31 Lee_in_Butte just checking to be sure this irc link still works....on my end. I wanna catch the meeting today
18:30 Lee_in_Butte hey there
18:29 oleonard     Hi Lee_in_Butte!
18:23 mtompset     [off] which person? Oh.... the .za email person? He really doesn't keep up to date with the Ubuntu documentation.
18:16 cait         cookies :)
18:14 jcamins      [off] the former.
18:14 wahanui      Cookies are delicious delicacies
18:14 drojf        cookies!
18:13 * druthb     shares cookies, and fruit-and-nut bars.
18:13 druthb       :D
18:13 cait         hehe
18:13 drojf        lol
18:13 cait         druthb!
18:13 drojf        druthb!
18:13 drojf        [off] the webinar or being th ebad one? :D
18:13 druthb       cait!  drojf!
18:12 jcamins      [off] rangi already said he'd do it, I think.
18:12 cait         [off] volunteers drojf
18:11 drojf        [off] the one telling that person with the overly complicated, weird koha-on-ubuntu-installation that he should not be doing the webinar
18:10 oleonard     [off] Bad one?
18:10 drojf        [off] so, who is going to be the bad one?
18:09 drojf        hi cait
18:09 cait         hey drojf
18:05 cait         i was thinking about the second one :)
18:05 wahanui      okay, oleonard.
18:05 oleonard     DND is also Dungeons 'n' Dragons
18:05 oleonard     DND is Do Not Disturb
18:04 * cait       waves
18:04 cait         DND? :)
18:01 jcamins      Right.
18:01 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC
18:01 wahanui      bug 6874 is, like, epic
18:01 mtompset     bug 6874
18:01 mtompset     (if you want something done quickly, yourself is usually better)
18:01 oleonard     Which bug?
18:01 mtompset     or suffer the pain of rebasing it myself?
18:00 * jcamins    didn't write it, and last looked at it ages and ages ago.
18:00 jcamins      Get someone to rebase it.
18:00 jcamins      It's against master.
17:59 mtompset     Okay, so, I'd like to play with the bug that you mentioned yesterday, jcamins, but it says it is against 3.14, but there is no such tag, so I tried master, but it conflicts like crazy. So, how could it be signed off?
17:58 mtompset     Got to love wireless issues.
17:58 mtompset     Greetings again, #koha.
17:57 magnuse      humidity-induced ouch!
17:57 huginn`      magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 10.0°C (7:50 PM CEST on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Rain Showers. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Rising).
17:57 magnuse      @wunder boo
17:43 magnuse      um, is it really necessary that "Import patrons" says "Parsing upload file test.csv" for each and every line in the imported file?
17:43 magnuse      kia ora NateC!
17:38 * magnuse    waves to druthb
17:37 * druthb     waves to magnuse
17:36 * magnuse    pokes his head in again
17:32 jenkins_koha Starting build #1382 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1379 1 day 0 hr ago)
17:31 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10743 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nengard, Pushed to Master , add style to privacy rules
17:31 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: Bug 10743: Add styles to 'my privacy' page in OPAC
17:31 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1381: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 13 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1381/
17:18 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10761 normal, P5 - low, ---, kenza.zaki, Pushed to Master , UT: saved_report and delete_report in C4::Reports::Report_Guided.pm need unit tests.
17:18 jenkins_koha Galen Charlton: Bug 10761: (follow-up) remove inadvertant dependence on Perl 5.14
17:18 jenkins_koha Project master_maria build #62: SUCCESS in 36 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/master_maria/62/
16:55 huginn`      tcohen: The operation succeeded.
16:55 tcohen       @later tell kf I think it is, because bgkriegel is not available till past-release time
16:42 jenkins_koha Starting build #62 for job master_maria (previous build: SUCCESS)
16:39 huginn`      New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10761: (follow-up) remove inadvertant dependence on Perl 5.14 <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=5ac32b4d11383356405ea76f26751db09cf90231>
16:38 kf           bye all :)
16:36 mtompset     Yes, I discovered that.
16:36 jcamins      git tries to save you from doing something you'll regret like forcibly deleting possibly-useful data.
16:36 jcamins      You have to look in the documentation to find the correct argument to forcibly remove them.
16:35 mtompset     git gc didn't remove them.
16:35 jcamins      Yes, I told you. git gc. But that's not your problem.
16:35 mtompset     There has to be a nice way to remove dangling blobs/trees.
16:35 jcamins      In case you were wondering.
16:34 mtompset     I was trying to apply that bug you mentioned yesterday, jcamins. But was having difficulty.
16:34 jcamins      I have three screens full of dangling blobs.
16:34 mtompset     I really need to keep track of what I am doing, so I don't keep doing this.
16:34 wahanui      interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
16:34 jcamins      Interesting.
16:33 mtompset     They were.
16:33 jcamins      *that were changed were actually
16:33 jcamins      mtompset: just as a thing-for-next-time, did you check to see that the files that were actuall committed?
16:33 liw          I  broke git today, by having my laptop crash
16:33 mtompset     I don't know how but my one branch tracking origin/master had edits in it, but 'git diff origin/master' wasn't showing differences.
16:32 mtompset     No, that wasn't the problem.
16:32 jcamins      kf: well... git was unhappy.
16:32 jcamins      However, since mtompset did not say "how do I recover data from a disk that has suffered a catastrophic failure and corrupted 90% of my files?" I suppose that's not the problem we're dealing with.
16:31 kf           that doesn't count really, does it?
16:31 jcamins      Catastrophic disk failure FTW.
16:31 jcamins      I managed once.
16:30 kf           it's really hard to break git actually
16:28 kf           but without telling us what the problem is a bit better it's hard to tell :)
16:28 jcamins      Dangling blobs are not a problem.
16:28 kf           mtompset: not sure it's necessary
16:28 mtompset     nevermind... I'm taking the pain AGAIN.
16:27 mtompset     git fsck
16:27 jcamins      How do you know you have dangling blobs? Did you get an error message?
16:27 jcamins      And are you sure they are actually on your branch?
16:26 mtompset     I may have and not noticed until now, but it seems strange that a 'git diff origin/master' didn't pop out these difference.
16:25 jcamins      So you are saying that you accidentally added commits to the wrong branch?
16:25 mtompset     downloading is a pain!
16:25 mtompset     I just want to reset without a full reclone.
16:25 * drojf      recommends fire
16:25 mtompset     I have files with contents that are in another branch.
16:24 mtompset     I have files in a branch that I wasn't expecting.
16:24 mtompset     I now have dangling blobs.
16:24 jcamins      In what way?
16:24 mtompset     because a series of git am's and git bz's (ordering and attempts all lost) have created a git mess.
16:23 jcamins      But, A) why are you trying to do this, and B) git gc.
16:23 jcamins      mtompset: for dangling blobs I generally recommend seeing a specialist.
16:22 mtompset     So any ideas on how to reset a git repo without a full reclone?
16:19 mtompset     Greetings, druthb. :)
16:19 * druthb     waves to mtompset
16:18 mtompset     How do I delete dangling blobs?
16:18 mtompset     Greetings, #koha.
16:18 jenkins_koha Starting build #1381 for job Koha_master (previous build: UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1379 23 hr ago)
16:16 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10761 normal, P5 - low, ---, kenza.zaki, Pushed to Master , UT: saved_report and delete_report in C4::Reports::Report_Guided.pm need unit tests.
16:16 jenkins_koha * Galen Charlton: Bug 10761: (follow-up) use explicit return in C4::Reports::Guided::delete_report()
16:16 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 10761: (follow-up) change return in C4::Reports::Guided::delete_report()
16:16 jenkins_koha * Kenza Zaki: Bug 10761: UT: add unit tests for save_report and delete_report in C4::Reports::Guided
16:16 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 3134: (follow-up) Reindent delete_report
16:16 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3134 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Ability to select multiple reports to delete at once
16:16 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 3134: (follow-up) improve ID and peport name sorting on saved reports page
16:16 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 3134: highlight all selected reports when confirming deletion of multiple reports
16:16 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 3134: [Follow-up] Ability to select multiple reports to delete at once
16:16 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 3134: add ability to selelct multiple reports to delete at once
16:16 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1380: UNSTABLE in 1 hr 15 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1380/
16:12 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10743 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nengard, Pushed to Master , add style to privacy rules
16:12 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: Bug 10743: Add styles to 'my privacy' page in OPAC
16:12 jenkins_koha Project master_maria build #61: SUCCESS in 37 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/master_maria/61/
16:06 gaetan_B     bye !
15:34 jenkins_koha Starting build #61 for job master_maria (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:34 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10761 normal, P5 - low, ---, kenza.zaki, Pushed to Master , UT: saved_report and delete_report in C4::Reports::Report_Guided.pm need unit tests.
15:34 jenkins_koha * Galen Charlton: Bug 10761: (follow-up) use explicit return in C4::Reports::Guided::delete_report()
15:34 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 10761: (follow-up) change return in C4::Reports::Guided::delete_report()
15:34 jenkins_koha * Kenza Zaki: Bug 10761: UT: add unit tests for save_report and delete_report in C4::Reports::Guided
15:34 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 3134: (follow-up) Reindent delete_report
15:34 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3134 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Ability to select multiple reports to delete at once
15:34 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 3134: (follow-up) improve ID and peport name sorting on saved reports page
15:34 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 3134: highlight all selected reports when confirming deletion of multiple reports
15:34 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 3134: [Follow-up] Ability to select multiple reports to delete at once
15:34 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 3134: add ability to selelct multiple reports to delete at once
15:34 jenkins_koha Project master_maria build #60: SUCCESS in 37 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/master_maria/60/
15:29 huginn`      New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10743: Add styles to 'my privacy' page in OPAC <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=841fe4559f6264295ec4cfde6ddd6e22a151d6bf>
15:28 kf           :)
15:27 drojf        druthb: i'm going to allow this :)
15:27 reiveune     bye
15:25 druthb       drojf++   # I am so stealing "frankenstein-y".
15:25 druthb       mad_scientists++
15:11 drojf        filemaker--
15:11 drojf        omg, i made filemaker do an sql query. i feel like a mad scientist doing frankenstein-y things.
15:07 drojf        [off] tcohen: but seriously, he said he goes back to nz in about a week. don't know if he will go back to work immediately though
15:06 tcohen       hehe
15:04 wahanui      drojf: de rien
15:04 drojf        wahanui: @later tell eythian is <eythian> i am out of office right now. thank you for leaving a message. if i do not get back to you within one hour, please leave me another message.
15:01 jenkins_koha Starting build #1380 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:00 drojf        heh
14:58 oleonard     eythian should have set up a vacation @later autoresponder
14:57 jenkins_koha Starting build #60 for job master_maria (previous build: SUCCESS)
14:52 drojf        tcohen kf eythian is still on vacation and really looking forward to hundreds of "@ later"s :P
14:49 huginn`      New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10761: (follow-up) use explicit return in C4::Reports::Guided::delete_report() <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=90e90a436ac009014abef0c557ea371b42b124d0> / Bug 10761: (follow-up) change return in C4::Reports::Guided::delete_report() <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=e189d4166e852118c1bf3b340991bf8fa0e3b720> / Bug 10761: UT: add unit tests for save_report an
14:46 kf           np
14:43 tcohen       thanks for telling kf
14:43 kf           might take a bit until you hear back
14:43 kf           tcohen:  i think he is still on vacation
14:41 huginn`      tcohen: The operation succeeded.
14:41 tcohen       @later tell eythian I need your advice for including a config file in case a suggested dependency is installed (bash-completion)
14:10 gmcharlt     and too long (by default, 10 minutes), and the Apache backend process times out
13:59 kf           but it can take a while
13:58 kf           hm not aknown one
13:56 magnuse      is there a known limit to how many patrons can be imported at once with the "import patrons" tool?
12:49 kf           morning tcohen
12:47 tcohen       morning #koha
12:44 oleonard     Where did this empty pbr folder come from and why isn't it filled with cheap beer?
12:41 * druthb     wriggles happily
12:41 kf           hi druthb
12:40 druthb       g'morning, #koha!
12:39 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6615 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW , Add shelving location option to transfers page
12:39 * oleonard   ought to see if we can fund Bug 6615 this year...
12:25 drojf        actually win2k only had IE6 i think
12:22 drojf        windows 2000 was the last windows i had installed in a non-VM version. good times. i might consider using it again if koha works with IE7 :P
12:20 jcamins      [off] Or they're embedded systems developers, I suppose.
12:18 jcamins      [off] And the others work at companies where the tail wags the dog.
12:17 jcamins      [off] A lot of them are old people who don't have any kids.
12:17 oleonard     Who are these IE7 users and what the hell is wrong with them/their IT departments?
12:16 jcamins      Probably.
12:16 oleonard     Windows XP is so old Microsoft doesn't even support it anymore, and even that can run IE8.
12:16 oleonard     Are there really people out there using Windows 2000 who can't upgrade to IE8?
12:15 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10772 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , IE7 not loading reset-fonts-grids.css in staff client
12:15 oleonard     (re: Bug 10772)
12:15 jcamins      lol
12:15 oleonard     I had a bowl full of angry condemnation of Internet Explorer 7.
12:14 * magnuse    wonders what oleonard had for breakfast ;-)
12:02 oleonard     Hideley-ho koharinos
11:51 marcelr      hi #koha
09:11 * dcook      crosses his fingers that he gets there in time
09:11 dcook        Public library time!
09:11 dcook        Have a good day/night all.
09:08 dcook        Three legitimate ones to make up for my not so legitimate one :p
09:02 kf           Joubu++ :)
09:00 magnuse      moahahaha
08:59 dcook        Tricksy magnuse getting me to stay uber late..
08:59 dcook        Hmm..might not make it to the library now
08:44 dcook        Oh dear...
08:42 * dcook      checks the archive
08:42 dcook        Perhaps this is the week of grandstanding :p
08:42 rangi        now im doubly glad i replied to the eifl mail
08:41 kf           thx :)
08:41 rangi        a new english bit of slang for you :)
08:41 rangi        kf: To perform ostentatiously so as to impress an audience.
08:40 rangi        latest email on the koha list
08:40 kf           grandstanding?
08:40 rangi        to assuming they are grandstanding now
08:40 rangi        im moved on from assuming they are wanting to help
08:40 rangi        oh good grief
08:30 dcook        Up now..
08:30 dcook        Having troubles loading the email archive. Might be an issue on my end though..
08:29 dcook        Hmm...
08:28 dcook        Mm, I'll take a look
08:26 rangi        ah on the main list, from eifl
08:25 dcook        Not sure I've noticed that one
08:19 rangi        i replied saying if the webinar can be delivered via free software, id be interested
08:16 dcook        I seem to notice it more and more all the time :/
08:16 rangi        lots of KOHA today
08:01 dcook        Love me a good Shakespeare remake
08:00 dcook        Ooh. Ran does sound good..
08:00 drojf        reminds me i still have not watched sátántangó. 7 hours of quiet hungarians in black and white. had to download it, never watched it. i should still have it somewhere
07:59 rangi        kurosawa remakes king lear :)
07:58 rangi        that was great too
07:58 cjh          they are hilarious.
07:58 rangi        ran
07:58 * cjh        is currently watching all the bond films
07:58 dcook        hehe
07:58 rangi        may as well do the free trial
07:58 rangi        :)
07:57 cjh          I have been thinking of signing up to fatso for scifis, an '50s, '60s and '70s japanese movie education might just tip me over the edge.
07:57 rangi        yep
07:57 dcook        I wonder if that will/has come up with Koha
07:57 rangi        http://www.fatso.co.nz/Search/Director/Akira_Kurosawa/8113
07:57 dcook        Mind you, I only have two branches at mind so I guess that's not a huge problem..
07:57 dcook        Still disappointed about the libraries here charing for reservations..
07:57 dcook        I think I got both Kurosawa films from the library back home :)
07:56 rangi        quickflix.co.nz only has one
07:56 dcook        Interesting.  I'd never heard of the site before. Good ol' NZ
07:54 cjh          :o that may be the reason to get fatso that I have been looking for.
07:54 rangi        when i had fatso.co.nz i went through a phase where i watched all of the kurosawa movies
07:53 rangi        hi kf
07:53 * cjh        takes notes
07:53 dcook        hey ya kf :)
07:53 * kf         waves
07:53 dcook        I knew Magnificient Seven was a homage to Seven Samurai but I didn't know that Seven Samurai was itself an homage to spaghetti westerns as well. Sweet.
07:52 dcook        hehe
07:52 cjh          heh
07:52 rangi        full circle
07:52 rangi        theny they went and made the magnificent seven, which was a homage to seven samurai
07:52 rangi        that was his homage to spaghetti westerns
07:51 dcook        Admittedly, I watched it in stages :p
07:51 dcook        So you have to be willing to sit for a while
07:51 dcook        Mind you, Seven Samurai is nearly 4 hours long..
07:51 dcook        cjh: They're pretty classic
07:50 dcook        I'll have to check them out sometime :)
07:49 * cjh        hasnt seen any of those
07:48 rangi        as is sanshiro sugata
07:48 rangi        yojimbo is great
07:48 dcook        I might have The Hidden Fortress somewhere though. Keep meaning to watch that..
07:48 rangi        oh you are missing out
07:47 dcook        Actually, Seven Samurai might be the only one I've seen of his
07:47 dcook        I've never seen Ikiru..
07:46 rangi        confusing it with ikiru
07:46 rangi        you might be right
07:46 dcook        I think Otomo did the whole thing himself
07:46 dcook        I don't think Kurosawa was on the film
07:45 dcook        Wait...
07:45 rangi        yeah
07:45 dcook        Although apparently Otomo also did the script for the movie I think..
07:45 dcook        Seems pretty different from what I can tell so far
07:44 dcook        rangi: Yep, although it's been a couple years.
07:44 dcook        hehe
07:44 wahanui      facepalm is a tiny member of the Arecaceae family whose preference for warm, humid environments makes it a perfect choice for cultivation in the human nasal cavity.
07:44 * dcook      facepalm
07:44 dcook        *facepalm*
07:44 dcook        The method of installation and setup described below is called the "original tarball" installation method. Do not confuse it with any other installation method.
07:44 rangi        have you seen the kurosawa movie of the same name?
07:43 dcook        I want to pick up the rest of Akira but the library doesn't close for a while..
07:43 dcook        I'll look at doing another.
07:43 dcook        Thanks :)
07:42 magnuse      dcook++ for the actual signoff
07:42 dcook        Indeed, wahanui. Indeed.
07:42 wahanui      the is probably a stop word
07:42 dcook        What the..
07:42 magnuse      oh noes...
07:41 rangi        then go on and do the tarball .. wtf
07:41 rangi        http://wiki.lib.sun.ac.za/index.php/KOHA#Step_1_-_Install_Ubuntu_12.04_LTS_server_software_on_a_bare_metal_or_virtual_machine.
07:41 rangi        they set up the package source
07:41 rangi        that wiki is so wrong
07:41 dcook        gah?
07:41 rangi        gah
07:40 dcook        There we go, magnuse. An actual sign off :p
07:35 dcook        hey ya matts
07:35 matts        hi !
07:33 dcook        Ooo, bugs to sign off..
07:29 dcook        Improving the wiki instructions seems like the way to go
07:29 dcook        mtompset++
07:28 dcook        I think people do think they're helping but such a bad idea
07:28 dcook        I should probably go back and check some time though..
07:28 dcook        I have a blog where I occasionally talk about my adventures with Koha but I think I've tried my best to not actually reference anything specific
07:28 cjh          amen.
07:27 dcook        Those!
07:27 dcook        ^^ all comments
07:27 rangi        i assume they mean well .. but not actually helping
07:27 rangi        our starting their own wiki with old instructions
07:26 rangi        fly spaghetti monster save us from people helping with bad advice about cron
07:16 dcook        Not very useful in the web view but handy when you download as CSV..
07:12 dcook        group_concat using a newline separator so that the SQL report can show multiple values for the patron :D
07:11 dcook        Oh...I think I've nearly got it..
07:09 dcook        Well...the public library is open until 8...maybe I can get in an actual test once I finish up this report I'm writing..
07:08 magnuse      ah, i better be more careful with my ++s next time ;-)
07:08 dcook        I'm already staying late at work..
07:08 dcook        papa: Almost certainly. If only I weren't so swamped :S.
07:08 dcook        For my own bug...:/
07:07 dcook        It was me changing a bug back to signed off from failed qa
07:07 dcook        It wasn't legitimate
07:07 dcook        Ahh...I see
07:05 papa         maybe this is an incentive..
07:05 * dcook      tries to remember
07:05 dcook        That doesn't sound right
07:05 dcook        I did a sign off?
07:03 magnuse      dcook++ papa++ cait++ for doing signoffs
07:02 wahanui      gbsd is Global Bug Squashing Day
07:02 magnuse      gbsd?
07:02 wahanui      i think next gbsd is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/2013-08-23_Global_bug_squashing_day
07:02 magnuse      next gbsd?
06:57 dcook        lol
06:57 wahanui      you are, like, afraid that we added another 10000 bugs while he was eating pizza
06:57 magnuse      me?
06:57 dcook        So I'll still see cait but no one else :o
06:56 dcook        7:55am
06:56 dcook        Aha, diagrams..
06:54 dcook        Or 9:55am?
06:54 dcook        It will be 7:55am rather than 8:55am in Germany?
06:53 dcook        So in October...
06:53 dcook        I still have a hard time wrapping my head around this concept..
06:53 alex_a       salut dcook
06:52 dcook        bonjour alex_a
06:52 wahanui      salut, alex_a
06:52 alex_a       hello
06:51 dcook        Which actually were only 9 blocks away from each other...
06:50 dcook        We actually wound up at different coffee shops with the same name
06:50 dcook        Well, actually, she knew that I'd be late because I would forget about the time change
06:50 dcook        Made me late for coffee with someone once :p
06:50 magnuse      heh
06:50 dcook        I've only encountered it...5 times in my life really
06:50 gaetan_B     nihau wahanui
06:50 dcook        I grew up in Saskatchewan where we don't have daylight savings time
06:50 gaetan_B     hi magnuse, dcook
06:50 dcook        That's the same back in Canada
06:50 huginn`      drojf: The current temperature in Alter Schlachthof, Berlin, Germany is 16.3°C (8:50 AM CEST on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 78%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 30.33 in 1027 hPa (Steady).
06:50 drojf        @wunder berlin, germany
06:50 magnuse      ouch
06:50 wahanui      That'll be $1 for the awesome jar, magnuse
06:50 magnuse      awesome!
06:49 magnuse      ooh, *parts* of australia has daylight savings time?
06:49 dcook        Hmm, chilly again today..
06:49 reiveune     hi magnuse, dcook :)
06:49 dcook        salut gaetan_B, reiveune
06:49 huginn`      magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 10.0°C (8:20 AM CEST on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
06:49 magnuse      @wunder boo
06:49 huginn`      magnuse: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 16.0°C (4:30 PM EST on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 27%. Dew Point: -3.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
06:49 magnuse      @wunder sydney, australia
06:48 huginn`      magnuse: Error: No such location could be found.
06:48 magnuse      @wunder sydney
06:48 huginn`      magnuse: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 14.0°C (8:45 AM CEST on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 86%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 30.27 in 1025 hPa (Steady).
06:48 magnuse      @wunder konstanz
06:48 huginn`      magnuse: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 21.0°C (8:30 AM CEST on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 60%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
06:48 magnuse      @wunder marseille
06:48 magnuse      bonjour reiveune et gaetan_B
06:48 magnuse      dcook: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_by_country
06:47 reiveune     hello
06:47 wahanui      niihau, gaetan_B
06:47 gaetan_B     hello
06:46 cait         bbl
06:46 dcook        [off] Just learned that there is a thing called "The Sentinel Chicken Surveillance Program" here in Australia. Can't help but think of chickens pursuing X-men or chickens with rifles and combat boots...
06:44 cait         hm takes a bit longer i think
06:44 dcook        I keep thinking there's a time when you folks show up earlier than just before I'm supposed to leave :p
06:43 * dcook      tries to remember when daylight savings time is around the world
06:42 drojf        hi dcook and cait
06:41 magnuse      guten morgen cait
06:41 cait         hi papa, magnuse and drojf!
06:40 dcook        hey ya drojf
06:39 drojf        hei magnuse
06:38 magnuse      moin drojf
06:37 drojf        good morning #koha
06:33 magnuse      hiya dcook and papa
06:31 papa         hi there
06:31 dcook        papa++
06:31 dcook        Hey ya magnuse
06:25 * magnuse    waves
06:20 dcook        http://dl2sl.org/ looks kind of neat...
06:20 dcook        Apparently I'm a bit slow
06:20 dcook        Cookie!
05:47 * cait       hands you a cookie
05:47 cait         hm it started when i came online?
05:44 dcook        I wasn't feeling hungry before though..
05:38 dcook        Pretty late
05:35 cait         isn't it late for lunch?
05:35 cait         probably :)
05:35 * dcook      should go eat lunch...
05:35 dcook        Hey ya cait
05:05 dcook        The default options seem rather horrible
05:05 dcook        What web browsers do people use on Linux?
04:44 cjh          awesome http://kohadevreactions.tumblr.com/post/57956294721/interfacing-with-overdrive-3m-well-pretty-much
04:10 dcook        Ah, perhaps I spoke too soon for all the praise...
04:04 dcook        hdl++
04:04 huginn`      dcook: Karma for "hdl" has been increased 69 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 68.
04:04 dcook        @karma hdl
04:04 dcook        Or rather the lines near the bottom
04:03 dcook        I so want to give them a highfive
04:03 dcook        Whoever designed C4::Biblio::GetAuthorisedValueDesc is awesome.
03:36 dcook        C4::Biblio::GetAuthorisedValueDesc looks about right...
03:36 * dcook      tries to remember which sub allows you to get an authorized value's description..
02:46 * druthb     waves, and goes to do something else for a bit.
02:45 dcook        That second one was for druthb
02:45 dcook        :(
02:45 dcook        poor rangi :(
02:42 * druthb     sets this patch aside for now, in frustration.
02:39 * druthb     melts a UNIMARC record...
02:38 gmcharlt     druthb is making s'mores!  great!
02:37 * druthb     grumps s'more.
02:35 wizzyrea     hate it when that happens!
02:34 jcamins      lol
02:34 rangi        i accidentally read a mail
02:34 wizzyrea     ?
02:34 rangi        aarrrrrgggh
02:32 dcook        hehe
02:26 jcamins      *Now* I understand: http://geek-and-poke.com/geekandpoke/2013/8/20/naming-is-key
02:24 jcamins      druthb++
02:24 druthb       Unsure, wizzyrea; this is from M. Saby's test DB.
02:23 wizzyrea     the framework is properly configured?
02:23 dcook        druthb++
02:23 druthb       jcamins:  Signing off a patch.
02:23 dcook        Damn :/
02:23 druthb       dcook:  Wasn't that.  nuts.
02:22 jcamins      druthb: why are you using UNIMARC?
02:20 dcook        I've had that happen quite a few times and it ended up being caching
02:20 druthb       'sec.  lemme try that.
02:20 dcook        Did you clear your cache?
02:19 druthb       Set BiblioAddsAuthorities to "Allow", but still can't add a 700 on a UNIMARC.  Still locked out.
02:18 dcook        :(
02:15 * druthb     grumps.
02:15 druthb       hrm.
01:54 dcook        Perhaps that's a "cross that bridge" when it comes to it..
01:48 * dcook      sighs
01:48 dcook        When I say doesn't embrace, IE7 doesn't import the stylesheet if there is a media query attached to the rule.
01:47 dcook        Short of using IE specific comments in the HTML, I don't see a way around this..
01:47 dcook        I think...I might be stumped. IE7 doesn't seem to embrace media queries in the @import rule.
01:41 wizzyrea     [off] dcook: http://www.loc.gov/catworkshop/RDA%20training%20materials/LC%20RDA%20Training/LC%20RDA%20course%20table.html
01:39 dcook        Well, if you want to be accurate :p
01:38 gmcharlt     heh
01:38 wizzyrea     *A* hunk and *A* sprog. :P
01:38 dcook        wizzyrea has all the hunks and sprogs
01:38 * wizzyrea   has already done her selecting ;)
01:37 mtj          let the selecting of hunks commence!
01:36 dcook        Don't like media queries, eh? Jerk...
01:36 dcook        ie7--
01:36 huginn`      dcook: Karma for "ie7" has been increased 0 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of -1.
01:36 dcook        @karma ie7
01:32 wizzyrea     whaddup
01:32 wahanui      wizzyrea is a fan of selecting hunks for committing.
01:32 bag          heya wizzyrea
01:31 wizzyrea     sprog hehe
01:25 * druthb     waves to mtj
01:25 mtj          hi! hi!
01:24 bag          hey Mason!
01:24 dcook        hey ya mtj :)
01:24 * mtj        waves to druthb, dcook  and bag
01:24 dcook        \o/
01:23 dcook        hehe
01:23 bag          well with a happy happy girl like Ginny!  she makes me laugh and is always happy!
01:22 bag          it's the best!
01:22 dcook        When I have a sprog, I hope I get to have hometime with them.
01:21 dcook        Yay for time with Ginny :)
01:21 bag          been busy - and this week - no daycare so I'm with Ginny all week :) :D
01:21 dcook        Haven't seen you around in a while
01:20 dcook        hey bag
01:20 bag          heya druthb and dcook
01:15 dcook        \o
01:15 druthb       o/
00:51 dcook        ie--
00:36 dcook        Without a doubt, I'm glad to be working on Koha where these things are possible :)
00:34 dcook        Baby steps I guess
00:33 dcook        And any attempt to migrate that data while preserving all that data will almost necessarily involve copying across some of its not so great conventions as well...
00:33 dcook        I suppose it's hard to start fresh when the data isn't fresh.
00:32 dcook        Libraries are great (even if they charge you a 1.80 fee for reserves...*grumbles*)
00:32 dcook        Certainly not all of it bad :)
00:31 gmcharlt     maybe 100+, not all of it bad :)
00:31 dcook        Well, maybe 40+
00:31 dcook        Mind you, it's tough breaking out of 50+ years of tradition
00:30 dcook        I suppose I wish that more library world people were involved in trying to push ahead as well
00:30 dcook        Makes sense
00:30 gmcharlt     dcook: to answer your question, yes
00:23 wahanui      maybe both are related
00:23 dcook        Maybe both..
00:23 dcook        I was rambling to someone about this recently. As a Koha developer, is our job to give people what they want or to push ahead and try to give them what might be good?
00:22 wizzyrea     right lunch
00:22 dcook        I suppose the requirement gathering is where the real work is
00:22 dcook        The subfield selects...those will probably come up
00:22 dcook        That's not much work though. I did the extra fields pretty quickly.
00:21 dcook        Touché
00:21 wizzyrea     to be done
00:21 dcook        hehe
00:21 wizzyrea     ^ work
00:21 dcook        Other than that...a lot of it is frameworks/slight mods of the subfield selects in the XSLTs
00:21 dcook        I could submit a patch at some point for the 336, 337, 338, and 264
00:20 dcook        If I'm not mistaken, the XSLTs already handle limitless 7xx fields for authors, I think
00:20 dcook        Which doesn't really matter in our cases
00:20 dcook        Like the rule of three bit and the elimination of standard abbreviations
00:20 dcook        To be honest, a lot of RDA seems to do with description rather than encoding
00:19 dcook        Well...
00:19 wizzyrea     to cope with RDA records
00:19 wizzyrea     anyway - there's clearly work to be done there
00:18 dcook        Which...yeah...blessing and a curse
00:18 dcook        They probably only thought about it from a bibliographic angle
00:18 dcook        I'm not sure they thought that far ahead necessarily
00:18 * wizzyrea   wonders what storage medium they had in mind - xml maybe?
00:17 dcook        (Probably)
00:16 wizzyrea     (because I suspect that if they knew the info was available, they would make him/her take it down)
00:16 dcook        Which...I suppose is a blessing and a curse
00:16 dcook        I noticed the part where they said RDA wasn't designed with MARC in mind
00:16 dcook        Yeah?
00:16 wizzyrea     talks about that
00:16 wizzyrea     whoever did this blog, which I suspect we should archive RIGHT NOW
00:15 dcook        Either RDA/AACR2/ISBD or no standard
00:15 wizzyrea     I know right!
00:15 dcook        Mind you, even if we don't have MARC, we still have RDA
00:15 dcook        At least, not yet.
00:15 dcook        No one is really offering a viable alternative though
00:14 wizzyrea     iti's just so head shakingly bad.
00:14 dcook        I've had those same sighs
00:14 wizzyrea     meh, not poor me
00:14 dcook        Poor wizzyrea
00:14 dcook        hehe
00:14 * wizzyrea   sighs a lot
00:14 * wizzyrea   sighs.
00:13 rangi        lemme just build a natural language parser into my opac
00:13 dcook        Which is why they had fixed value fields...except people couldn't figure out the codes
00:13 wizzyrea     stupid. stupid. stupid.
00:13 wizzyrea     yea naw.
00:13 dcook        Which isn't likely to work with free text fields
00:13 dcook        Yep
00:13 wizzyrea     that kind of only works if you are super consistent?
00:13 rangi        good luck with that
00:12 wizzyrea     These fields are not display fields. Sirsi (or LMxAC) will have to design a way for the information contained in the 336-338 fields to map to a display in the OPAC.
00:12 dcook        rangi: Pretty much
00:12 rangi        and wasting everyones time and money
00:12 dcook        Although personally...they probably would be better used as replacements for fixed field data (since a lot of people don't use the fixed fields as the spec says they should)
00:12 rangi        piling more crap on top of crap
00:12 wizzyrea     what he said.
00:12 wizzyrea     yea exactly
00:12 rangi        its a clustefuck
00:11 wizzyrea     heh
00:11 dcook        LoC displays them and I had a library wanting them displayed though
00:11 dcook        "These fields are not display fields."
00:11 dcook        http://rdabasics.com/2012/09/10/content-media-and-carrier-fields/
00:10 wizzyrea     that site isn't bad generally
00:09 dcook        Hmm, that's not a half-bad blog post
00:06 dcook        http://access.rdatoolkit.org/document.php?id=jscmap1
00:05 dcook        Actually, I posted a link to the rdatoolkit where they gave away some info..
00:05 dcook        True enough. Lots of info out there already.
00:04 dcook        Yeah, I've used the RDA toolkit a few times and looked at their pricing/user info
00:04 wizzyrea     http://rdabasics.com/2012/09/10/specific-changes-from-aacr2-to-rda/
00:04 rangi        you dont buy a copy
00:04 rangi        you lease it
00:04 dcook        But people can say "we need this" or "we need that"
00:04 rangi        resold or transferred.
00:04 rangi        The RDA Toolkit may not be
00:04 rangi        Neither Licensee nor Authorized Users acquire ownership rights to the RDA Toolkit.
00:04 dcook        Oh law...
00:03 dcook        Could be
00:03 rangi        or, it doesnt have one as draconian as the rda toolkit
00:03 rangi        they break their license agreement
00:03 rangi        license regardless of subscription mechanism.
00:03 rangi        separate Site requires its own RDA Toolkit
00:03 rangi        Each
00:03 rangi        under the terms and conditions set forth herein.
00:03 rangi        RDA Toolkit
00:03 rangi        d in
00:03 rangi        assignable license to access materials include
00:03 rangi        -
00:03 dcook        How do people get away with posting AACR2 guidelines at universities?
00:03 rangi        transferable, non
00:03 rangi        -
00:03 rangi        exclusive, non
00:03 rangi        -
00:03 rangi        Licensor hereby grants to Licensee a non
00:02 rangi        nope
00:02 dcook        However, what about summaries?
00:02 dcook        I can understand not cutting and pasting from licensed documents
00:02 dcook        rangi: I've wondered about that
00:02 rangi        only record them if the license allows
00:01 * dcook      looks at the rdatoolkit pricetag and all the RDA workshop ads.
00:01 dcook        As far as I can tell, the average person needs to pay for specifics
00:01 dcook        If you do get specifics, it would be great if you could record them somewhere
00:00 dcook        Where cataloguers are supposed to only add up to three additional authors in the 7xx fields
00:00 dcook        I think RDA might get rid of the "rule of three" for authors
00:00 dcook        Mmm, could be
00:00 wizzyrea     I'm waiting on specifics