Time  Nick         Message
23:41 dcook        I think it might be the same, but I'm not sure
23:40 * wizzyrea   looks more
23:40 wizzyrea     but it looks like it's the same?
23:40 dcook        Yeah, I'm confused by that
23:39 wizzyrea     then he attached a patch...
23:39 dcook        Although it does look like he's asking for some changes?
23:39 dcook        That is a bit confusing...I can't tell if Marcel passed or failed it based on the comments..
23:37 wizzyrea     oh it's in fail qa that doesn't seem right
23:36 dcook        I suppose if there were a "manage_shelves" permission...the default would be for the superlibrarian to have that permission (or not need it)
23:35 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9833 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, matthias.meusburger, Failed QA , New virtual shelves/lists permissions
23:35 dcook        bug 9833
23:35 dcook        I'd sign off a patch that made superlibrarians overlords of lists
23:34 wizzyrea     oh that must be what happened here
23:34 dcook        I recently had to change the owner of a list in the DB because the owner had been deleted and thus the owner nullified
23:34 dcook        Hmm, I think that bug is still alive and well in 3.8.0
23:33 mtompset     That was a sarcastic woo hoo. ;)
23:33 mtompset     woo hoo!
23:33 wizzyrea     and even better, apparently there was a bug at some point that set the owners to NULL, so there are lists existent that cannot be edited by anyone?!
23:32 dcook        hey, mtompset :)
23:32 dcook        I think I've had that same rant.
23:32 dcook        wizzyrea: I couldn't agree more.
23:28 wizzyrea     but I just felt the need to rant.
23:28 wizzyrea     there may be a bug about that somewhere.
23:28 wizzyrea     edit/delete
23:28 wizzyrea     the superlibrarian really ought to be able to edit all lists regardless of owner.
23:27 mtompset     Greetings, dcook. :)
23:27 pianohacker  mtompset: ask me again tomorrow :) It's also in the logs somewhere
23:27 mtompset     What's the nuance? :P
23:27 mtompset     bye? But you left me hanging. :P
23:27 dcook        see ya pianohacker
23:27 pianohacker  bye all
23:27 pianohacker  and with that, I'm gonna skedaddle
23:27 pianohacker  because I hate XML :) (it is of course more nuanced than that, but wahanui isn't good at nuance)
23:26 mtompset     Why did you program wahanui to say that, pianohacker?
23:26 wahanui      I HATE XML
23:26 mtompset     hey pianohacker?!
23:25 dcook        How about you?
23:25 dcook        Mmm, not too bad. Reading about OOP, hopefully renewing a lease, and looking at XSLT in a moment :p
23:24 pianohacker  how's it going, dcook?
23:24 pianohacker  he speaks the truth
23:24 pianohacker  yup yup
23:24 dcook        lol
23:24 wahanui      I HATE XML
23:24 dcook        hey pianohacker
23:24 pianohacker  hey dcook
23:22 dcook        morning #koha
22:59 tcohen       bye #koha
22:55 mtompset     If I'm in C4::Items.pm, can I get the user id using C4::Context?
22:18 tweetbot     [off] twitter: @KohaILS: "#KohaILS  Ingalls Memorial Library Chooses ByWater Solutions’ Koha Support http://t.co/rqdAnUekam"
22:07 pianohacker  yup. The MARC editor I'm going to be working on soonish will be more integrated than that, but it is a cool idea
22:07 mtompset     That would be a cool idea!
22:07 pianohacker  consensus was you could. I think all that could be missing is frameworks
22:07 pianohacker  mtompset: ah, we were talking about whether you could make an external MARC editor with them
22:04 mtompset     pianohacker: What are you doing with svc scripts? :)
22:04 mtompset     svc? Did someone say svc scripts?
21:52 wizzyrea     hi pianohacker :)
21:52 wahanui      wizzyrea is a fan of selecting hunks for committing.
21:52 pianohacker  hey wizzyrea
21:26 huginn`      wizzyrea: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 8.0°C (9:00 AM NZST on July 11, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Windchill: 3.0°C. Pressure: 30.51 in 1033 hPa (Steady).
21:26 wizzyrea     @wunder nzwn
21:20 tweetbot     [off] twitter: @ByWaterSolution: "Ingalls Memorial Library Chooses ByWater Solutions’ Koha Support http://t.co/dgfavNyYTq #KohaILS"
21:20 huginn`      rambutan: The current temperature in Wyatt Park, St Joseph, Missouri is 32.9°C (4:20 PM CDT on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 44%. Dew Point: 19.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Falling).
21:20 rambutan     @wunder 64507
20:47 huginn`      cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 21.2°C (10:45 PM CEST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
20:47 cait         @wunder konstanz
20:16 kathryn      and hello all :)
20:15 cait         :)
20:15 kathryn      ah you beat me to it, hi cait :)
20:12 cait         good morning kathryn :)
20:04 jcamins      Very nice.
20:04 rangi        ?items=1
20:04 rangi        thats the one
20:04 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7729 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mjr, CLOSED FIXED, svc API should allow modification of items
20:04 rangi        bug 7729
20:04 jcamins      I had looked at the /svc/ API for my cataloging interface, and I'm pretty sure I ultimately decided to just not use items.
20:03 jcamins      I must've missed that.
20:03 jcamins      Oh, cool.
20:03 rangi        slef and papa did
20:03 rangi        we extended it to do that im pretty sure
20:02 jcamins      I didn't think that the /svc/ scripts coped with items.
20:02 pianohacker  ah, true
20:02 jcamins      pianohacker: and something to handle items.
20:02 pianohacker  Really we just need something to dump framework information and we're there
20:01 pianohacker  jcamins: We're halfway there, with the scripts in /svc/
19:53 jcamins      But it'd be cool.
19:53 jcamins      librarians who would take advantage of it.
19:53 jcamins      zero...
19:53 * jcamins    can think of...
19:53 cait         :)
19:53 jcamins      You know what'd be really cool? Some sort of coherent editor API so that people could add their own.
19:48 cait         probably not possible to build a cataloguing interface everyone likes
19:48 cait         i think opinions about it vary too :)
19:46 cait         some internal format, using four number codes for fields and subfields like marc
19:46 cait         hm tht is text based, but not marc
19:45 pianohacker  worth a shot. what is the union cataloging interface you mentioned like?
19:44 cait         :)
19:44 cait         maybe ask them about fas cataloguing ;)
19:44 cait         k
19:40 pianohacker  cait: yeah, most likely. Not sure how much the client wants, but I'll try to make it easy to expand that later if needed
19:39 pianohacker  oleonard: I'd say so. My hacked-together text MARC editor was a hell of an effort, and that didn't support authorities, broken-out fixed fields, any number of things...
19:39 cait         pick a stanard, but make it possible to switch
19:38 cait         pianohacker: that sounds good - but maybe even make it possible to switch?
19:38 jcamins      My music stopped.
19:38 jcamins      Which reminds me.
19:38 jcamins      oleonard: and the tragedy of the commons.
19:38 oleonard     The fact that it hasn't been updated is testimony, I assume, to the difficulty of the task?
19:38 pianohacker  cait: Yeah, the current plan, to my knowledge, is to have the interface choice selectable by user
19:37 pianohacker  oleonard: Yeah, pretty much
19:37 cait         oleonard++ :)
19:37 cait         pianohacker: but i'd love to keep a simple form based interface for fast adds etc.
19:37 cait         pianohacker: i should explain they use the software from the union catalog for cataloguing and then we sync
19:37 oleonard     People have loved to hate it pretty much all that time.
19:36 oleonard     The interface has not changed significantly since it was introduced over 10 years ago.
19:36 cait         becuse noone here actually catalogs marc :P
19:36 cait         our libraries are mostly not using it
19:36 cait         heh
19:35 * jcamins    crosses that line.
19:34 pianohacker  she really hates it about as much as you can without insulting someone's mother
19:34 jcamins      I daresay she's probably someone more diplomatic and polite than I am. ;)
19:33 pianohacker  you should listen to nengard describe the current interface
19:33 pianohacker  hahahah yeah
19:33 jcamins      Operation Stop Librarian Teeth Gnashing is GO GO GO!
19:32 cait         ooh super secret name?
19:32 jcamins      Yeah, two 't's.
19:32 jcamins      *jettison?
19:32 jcamins      Well, given that you can't jetison MARC, you're kind of limited in the creativity of data structures.
19:32 pianohacker  it even has a top secret codename, it has to be good
19:31 pianohacker  won't have as interesting a data model as biblionarrator, but should be much better than koha's current marc editor
19:30 pianohacker  can't wait, have wanted to make it a full, powerful editor for years now
19:30 pianohacker  yes! that's my next project, currently waiting on client feedback before I get started
19:29 jcamins      pianohacker: apropos of nothing, do I recall hearing that you were going to be revisiting your Connexion-esque MARC editor interface?
19:25 mtompset     Back to what I should be working on.
19:24 * mtompset   is frustrated by DBIx.
18:40 pianohacker  this feels like a describe-everything-ever syntax that would be _incredibly_ painful to work with in practice
18:39 pianohacker  *more overhead than MODS
18:39 gmcharlt     heh
18:39 pianohacker  wtf did I just type
18:39 pianohacker  ...
18:39 gmcharlt     pianohacker: recursive data formats generally are ;-P
18:38 pianohacker  oh wow. ONIX is interesting but seems to have even more overhead than ONIX...
18:34 mtompset     Again not so true. More like happy due to pure ANSI SQL goodness. :)
18:34 gmcharlt     one of the reasons why I giggle when library folks talk about ONIX in terms that make it sound like publishers never mess it up
18:34 wahanui      mtompset is disliking the silent warnings flooding his error logs.
18:34 pianohacker  hey mtompset
18:34 mtompset     greetings, cait pianohacker. :)
18:33 pianohacker  I'd love it endlessly if some kind of standard format came back from these, but my expectations of technical competence from ebook vendors have gone down _drastically_ in the past month or two
18:32 pianohacker  fair enough. thanks
18:32 jcamins      pianohacker: I'd just convert a DC record to a MODS record.
18:30 pianohacker  jcamins: Do you know of any pitiful-MODS examples? :) MODS is not an easy thing to google...
18:28 jcamins      It'd just be kind of pitiful MODS.
18:28 cait         hi #koha
18:28 jcamins      pianohacker: DC can be converted to MODS.
18:27 pianohacker  I don't know if I can make MODS work in this context, as the underlying JSON is... bare-bones
18:27 gmcharlt     as snap judgments in IRC may not yield the best answers
18:27 pianohacker  hrm, yeah. I'll send out a note
18:27 gmcharlt     on a broader note, though -- I think a bit more visibility is warranted for this sort of discussion -- i.e., koha-devel
18:26 gmcharlt     pianohacker: as a least-common-denominator, it's possible that DC may be the best that you could do, though MODS might be better if the underlying data can support it
18:26 wahanui      https://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net/image_cache/1372102329503089_animate.gif
18:26 jcamins      bibframe?
18:26 jcamins      Or you could leapfrog the competition!
18:26 jcamins      Well, MODS is at least moderately more sensible.
18:25 pianohacker  okay. dublin core isn't perfect, very limited set of information, so any more comprehensive alternatives that aren't as complex as MARC would be welcomed :)
18:25 jcamins      I'm not particularly pro-DC, but in this case you're presumably not getting anything richer than ONIX, so it would seem to make sense, and MODS would be a lot more overhead.
18:24 jcamins      No objection from me.
18:24 pianohacker  jcamins, gmcharlt: would be especially interested in your input
18:23 pianohacker  any objections, better ideas?
18:23 pianohacker  working on an SRU proxy for ebook providers, and I'm currently using dublin core (plus a namespaced extension for koha-specific stuff) as a simple generic metadata format
18:22 pianohacker  hey #koha, bibliographic format bikeshedding time, if you're interested
17:53 mtompset     "What if this rainbow doesn't exist?" -- http://youtu.be/QUmXhCmVaQg
17:24 mtompset     YAY! no extra function call or if's.
17:24 mtompset     and WHERE 1=0 is ANSI SQL!
17:23 gmcharlt     Skittles for EVERYBODY! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh-IsQ6XCyg
17:23 mtompset     and it is obviously faster than the LIMIT 1. :)
17:22 mtompset     SWEET! The "WHERE 1=0" works!
17:22 pianohacker  I like skittles
17:22 mtompset     That would be a strange way to show friendship. :P
17:22 * druthb     must remember to do that more often.
17:22 mtompset     Thankfully, yes.
17:21 druthb       I've only chucked Skittles at you once?
17:21 mtompset     SWEET!
17:21 mtompset     For the one time you randomly threw them at me. :P
17:20 druthb       !
17:20 * mtompset   throws skittles at druthb while druthb runs away. :P
17:19 * mtompset   really appreciates the feedback and ideas the Koha community generates. :)
17:13 mtompset     second... why limit 1 if where false works.
17:12 * druthb     runs and hides
17:12 mtompset     well, first to test a DBIx run.
17:12 gmcharlt     ;)
17:12 * gmcharlt   cowers
17:12 mtompset     Oooo... gmcharlt you gave me another idea.
17:10 kf           bye all
17:10 kf           liw++ :)
17:07 gmcharlt     liw++ # http://blog.liw.fi/posts/married/
16:26 kf           eythian: yeah yeah... i know
16:26 kf           jcamins: lol
16:26 eythian      that's the nature of normal forms :)
16:26 kf           the patron data.
16:25 kf           i will have to come up with sql to delete patron data according to our privacy documentation... and it's all over the place
16:25 eythian      or maybe you want to link them up to deleted_borrowers (is that a thing?)
16:25 gmcharlt     jcamins++
16:25 kf           anonymizing should take those table into accounts i think
16:25 jcamins      Hmm. If I always buy the cheap soba noodles, does that mean I'm making copy pasta for lunch?
16:25 kf           i think you could argue either way
16:25 eythian      right, if it's useful to know that they were separate borrowers, even if you don't know who they are, then not havin gthe FK might be the best way.
16:24 gmcharlt     which is the status quo
16:24 eythian      or you might even not have an FK at all
16:24 eythian      If that's a meaningful thing to do (which for search I'd say it is) then I'd say just set null
16:24 gmcharlt     the latter would have the effect of anonymous the search history of a deleted patron, while still leaving it available for the library to data-mine
16:23 eythian      it depends totally on what it is
16:23 gmcharlt     about that -- if we add a FK constraint, do we want it to casacde on delete or set null?
16:20 kf           i am pondering filing a bug for that
16:20 kf           oleonard: totally true
16:18 oleonard     Be careful to attribute to design what is more likely due to forgetfulness or laziness.
16:16 wahanui      interesting is probably sometimes good and sometimes bad
16:16 kf           interesting.
16:16 kf           we don't for search_history
16:16 kf           hm
16:14 kf           we do cascade for ratings :)
16:13 kf           sorry, dumb wednesday i think
16:13 kf           eythian: thx
16:12 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10356 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, chrish, Pushed to Master , adding date published to catalogue detail page
16:12 jenkins_koha Chris Hall: bug 10356: improve display of serial issue dates in staff bib details page
16:12 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1299: SUCCESS in 1 hr 14 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1299/
16:07 eythian      compare biblio->biblioitems->items
16:07 eythian      the cascade appears on the side that would be cascaded to
16:06 kf           i was wondering about reviews, ratings, borrower_attributes etc
16:06 kf           is there nothing or is it me?
16:06 kf           and i see nothing
16:06 kf           hm i did try for borrowers
16:05 kf           hm i will try that :)
16:04 jcamins      kf: show create table
16:03 eythian      gmcharlt: yes, that's my first definition too.
16:03 kf           on cascade
16:02 kf           hm how can i see if something is deleted as a cascade in mysql workbench... does someone know?
16:02 gmcharlt     eythian: yeah, I can see that; occassionally a USian will ask "since when does a public library get contributions from the nobility?"
16:02 eythian      gmcharlt: patron sounds quite weird in NZ english.
16:01 kf           heh
16:01 kf           it's on the bug!
16:01 kf           :)
16:01 kf           I protested about that
16:01 gmcharlt     and came across this: PatronSelfRegistrationBorrowerMandatoryField
16:00 kf           you shouldn't do that
16:00 kf           lol
16:00 gmcharlt     I started taking a look at what syspref names were doing
16:00 * gmcharlt   starts laughing uncontrollably
16:00 kf           so i tend more in that direction but i am happy with whatever :)
15:59 * drojf      heads home
15:59 kf           and borrowers in the database
15:59 kf           member because i think that's what most scripts do
15:59 gmcharlt     as a point of information, in many contexts, Evergreen calls the equivalent "user" (or "actor.usr") records
15:59 drojf        i think "kunden" is horrible in a library context
15:58 kf           i thik we have more members and borrowers in the codebase currently, but that's only a feeling
15:58 gmcharlt     "borrower" is reasonably common and understood, but less commonly used
15:58 kf           Benutzer, Entleiher, Ausleiher, Kunden...
15:58 kf           there are various words in german too
15:58 gmcharlt     whereas "member" doesn't really fit the vast majority of USian libraries -- there are very, very few libraries where getting a library card somehow gives you membership in the organization
15:57 gmcharlt     "patron" is very common in US (and I believe) Canada
15:56 gmcharlt     kf: indeed
15:50 kf           khall: ping :)
15:50 kf           and probably the template variables/scripts?
15:50 gaetan_B     bye!
15:49 kf           and i think we have a majority for borrowers still in the dtabase
15:49 kf           yeah
15:49 eythian      kf: it's only in some English, too
15:49 kf           :)
15:49 kf           guests... loaneess...
15:48 kf           maybe in some years we decide to call them customers
15:48 kf           patrons is only english.... varies in translation and who knows
15:48 kf           i wonder if sticking with the database names might be good
15:38 khall        yeah, I really like the idea of Koha::List::Patron
15:38 eythian      assuming it's more of a list focus than a patron focus
15:38 eythian      K::L::P makes more sense to me
15:38 gmcharlt     another option might be Koha::Container::Patron, or Koha::List::Patron (to go along with a putative Koha::List::Biblio)
15:38 drojf        khall: oh that's fantastic
15:38 khall        gmcharlt: agreed. Thanks for the input!
15:37 khall        drojf:  I suppose we could use Loanees ; )
15:37 gmcharlt     khall: more the former; the latter kinda implies that lists are an attribute of a patron, which isn't the case
15:36 khall        to nitpick even further: Koha::PatronLists vs Koha::Patron::Lists?
15:36 gmcharlt     well, let's not do what drojf suggests ;)
15:36 drojf        one we have not covered
15:36 eythian      "Personages"
15:36 khall        gmcharlt: thanks!
15:36 drojf        or you could come up with yet another naming for patrons
15:35 gmcharlt     consequently, using "patron" in the class name is fine with me
15:35 gmcharlt     khall: given the wide disparity of internal naming for patrons in particular, it's not like you have a single example to point to maintain consistency with
15:35 huginn`      eythian: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 14 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> oleonard: yep, something I'm playing with -- goal is to have some place to store test plans
15:35 eythian      @seen gmcharlt
15:35 jcamins      He was here an hour ago.
15:33 khall        I imagine gmcharlt is the go to for this, but I'm not sure when he'll be around. I guess I'll just push on and worry about it later.
15:33 eythian      There are two tricky problems in computer science: caching, naming things, and fencepost errors.
15:33 khall        heh!
15:32 jcamins      I have had to rename every single class I've written at least once.
15:32 jcamins      khall: well, I'm the wrong person to ask about nomenclature.
15:30 reiveune     bye
15:30 khall        s/moving/making/
15:30 khall        like the idea of moving our internal nomenclature to match our external nomenclature. Any input would be great. I don't have to get all the way done and have to rename everything!
15:30 jcamins      khall: idea of moving... [cut off here]
15:29 khall        gmcharlt, rangi, jcamins, et al : I'm working on a Patron Lists feature not dissimilar to the record lists feature Koha already has. I have a namespace question. I've started writing it using patron_lists as the table and Koha::PatronLists as the namesapce. I'm wondering if I should switch to BorrowerLists, however, I'm concerned it seems like lists *for* borrowers, and not lists *of* borrowers. In addition, I like the idea of moving
15:25 drojf        from search results and, coming soon, the detail view
15:25 drojf        we suppress the biblio
15:24 mtompset     because you don't catalogue them? ;)
15:24 mtompset     Yes, yes we do.
15:24 drojf        and our secrets are more secret than yours apparently :P
15:24 drojf        you have weird secrets
15:24 mtompset     drojf: Yes, that's what I'd want.
15:22 eythian      I often confuse those two numbers. Not this time however.
15:22 huginn`      eythian: Identifies the organization holding the item or from which it is available. May also contain detailed information about how to locate the item in a collection. (Repeatable) [a,b,c,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,p,q,s,t,u,x,z,2,3,6,8]
15:22 eythian      @marc 852
15:22 huginn`      eythian: The information needed to locate and access an electronic resource. The field may be used in a bibliographic record for a resource when that resource or a subset of it is available electronically. In addition, it may be used to locate and access an electronic version of a non-electronic resource described in the bibliographic record or a related electronic resource. (Repeatable) (1 more message)
15:22 eythian      @marc 856
15:20 eythian      I tend to think they should be hidden anyway. Perhaps with conditions that show them, e.g. has an 856 entry.
15:19 drojf        or do you only have secret doublets to hide?
15:17 drojf        if i find a biblio in the opac that has no items i would wonder why it is in the opac in the first place
15:17 drojf        and that is what you want?
15:16 mtompset     I believe so.
15:14 drojf        does OpacHiddenItems really hide the items (and show the biblios)?
15:11 eythian      They have a lot of secret codexes to hide.
15:11 mtompset     Yes, users could login without seein everything.
15:10 drojf        can't form useful sentences after 7 hours in the office
15:10 drojf        i mean, you want to also have users that can login, but not see the hidden stuff?
15:09 drojf        mtompset: but you need a user category for it? in contrast to "show it to people that are logged in, not to those who are not"?
15:06 eythian      not the borrower record, the borrower categories.
15:06 mtompset     That's cleaner.
15:06 mtompset     That's possible.
15:06 mtompset     by patron category...
15:06 mtompset     So actually modifying the borrower record for this attribute?
15:06 eythian      so you can apply it to a range of "special" people.
15:06 eythian      I'm wondering about an option in the patron categories settings.
15:05 eythian      yeah, what tcohen said
15:05 wahanui      somebody said something was fishy
15:05 eythian      But something.
15:05 eythian      dunno about extended attributes specifically, they tend to be less function-oriented.
15:05 tcohen       if it will be on koha's business logic then not an extended attribute
15:04 mtompset     so extended attributes, that makes sense.
15:04 eythian      don't overload something else, especially something important.
15:04 eythian      If you want certain borrowers to be able to see suppressed thing, create an attribute for borrowers called "can see suppressed things"
15:03 eythian      It's the wrong approach anyway
15:03 eythian      but if they have those permissions, they are staff.
15:03 mtompset     If the patrons were only staff who wanted this, I would agree that the staff client is the way to go, eythian.
15:02 huginn`      New commit(s) kohagit: bug 10356: improve display of serial issue dates in staff bib details page <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=97bbf04757227f2a26a6f5b1b216d2bab8efbdc9>
15:01 mtompset     To allow patrons who are not staff, but are allowed to see hidden collections to see them.
14:59 eythian      they can just use the staff client.
14:59 eythian      to what end?
14:59 mtompset     Okay... feature idea: if a user has catalogue or superlibrarian access they can override the OpacHiddenItems for their branch or completely in OPAC. Good, bad, strange? Feedback anyone?
14:58 jenkins_koha Starting build #1299 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
14:56 tcohen       hi mtompset
14:56 mtompset     Greetings, tcohen.
14:55 mtompset     Greetings, jcamins eythian drojf.
14:52 drojf        thanks :)
14:52 drojf        looks like it is only free as in beer but i think that will do for the person who is supposed to use it
14:52 jcamins      Shari's been using it.
14:52 jcamins      drojf: it's not vim, but other than that it seems fine.
14:51 drojf        jcamins: i found that. is it good?
14:50 jcamins      TextWrangler?
14:50 eythian      now you go with the scope creep.
14:50 drojf        ...for somebody that starts learning html
14:48 jcamins      Definitely vim.
14:47 wahanui      well, vim is at http://wiki.koha-community.org/w/index.php?title=Vim
14:47 eythian      vim?
14:46 drojf        what is a good (and free, preferably as in freedom) text editor with syntax highlighting (html is enough) for mac os?
14:45 mtompset     ^it^in^
14:45 mtompset     Slept it too late for the meeting. :(
14:45 mtompset     Greetings, #koha.
14:35 jcamins      Thanks.
14:35 oleonard     On the items edit page if you are editing one of the existing items
14:34 jcamins      oleonard: do you know of any examples where we visually highlight a row on a table?
14:21 huginn`      eythian: The current temperature in Brighton, Brighton, United Kingdom is 25.5°C (3:15 PM BST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 56%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.24 in 1024 hPa (Steady).
14:21 eythian      @wunder BN1 1AL
14:21 gmcharlt     oleonard: yep, something I'm playing with -- goal is to have some place to store test plans
14:03 kf           oleonard++ :)
13:56 kf           i asked rangi this morning about it
13:56 kf           ithink you can savely ignore the dashboard line right now
13:56 kf           it#s something rangi and gmcharlt were testing
13:50 eythian      I wonder if that's a plugin
13:49 oleonard     Dashboard? New Case? New Run?
13:48 oleonard     Bugzilla upgrade? Things look different
13:36 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10401 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , Add ability to merge invoices
13:36 kf           bug 10401
13:09 oleonard     :P
13:08 kf           hm but wouldn't it just lick off the dressing?
13:08 jcamins      oleonard: I think it did, yes.
13:06 oleonard     I believe the original Joy of Cooking had dressing instructions for possums... it did for other varmints.
13:06 kf           we still need him to finish the new theme
13:06 * kf         stops eythian
13:06 * eythian    reports oleonard
13:05 * oleonard   hopes it's legal to shoot a possum with a camera in this state
13:05 eythian      he meant with a camera.
13:05 jcamins      oleonard: naturally.
13:05 oleonard     ...all us Americans each having a gun, naturally.
13:05 oleonard     An Ohio Department of Wildlife official told us that if we caught a raccoon we should shoot it.
13:04 huginn`      kf: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 28.0°C (3:00 PM CEST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 24%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.96 in 1014 hPa (Falling).
13:04 kf           @wunder Konstanz
13:04 huginn`      eythian: The current temperature in Brighton, Brighton, United Kingdom is 25.6°C (2:01 PM BST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 53%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.24 in 1024 hPa (Steady).
13:04 eythian      @wunder BN1 1AL
13:03 eythian      oleonard: the annoying neighbour's window counts as a yard, right?
13:03 huginn`      jcamins: The current temperature in Glendale, Glendale, New York is 24.9°C (8:58 AM EDT on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 23.0°C. Pressure: 29.94 in 1014 hPa (Steady).
13:03 jcamins      @wunder 11375
13:03 kf           oleonard: well done!
13:02 drojf        lol
13:02 oleonard     drojf: Trying to decide whose yard to release it in ;)
13:02 drojf        oleonard: great catch. what are you doing with it now?
12:54 khall        I mean "Surname, Firstname"
12:54 khall        One note: search by instructor has to by "Firstname Surname" or "Surname Firstname"
12:53 khall        pretty much!
12:53 oleonard     Thanks
12:53 oleonard     So basically everything :)
12:53 khall        oleonard: department, course number, section, course name, term, public note, intstructor
12:51 oleonard     khall: What does the OPAC's course reserves search form search?
12:40 khall        thanks!
12:39 oleonard     I'll take a look khall
12:37 huginn`      04Bug 10558: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Convert records table in manage-marc-import.pl to ajax DataTable
12:37 khall        oleonard: this patch could use a bit of your UI magic: http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10558
12:37 khall        mornin all!
12:33 chris_n      heh, I imagine so
12:32 oleonard     No hissing, just baring of teeth. He was a very bummed-out possum.
12:32 chris_n      nice catch oleonard; did he hiss much at you?
12:13 jcamins      But you know what I didn't miss out on? I didn't miss out on sleep.
12:13 oleonard     (this is why you shouldn't miss meetings jcamins, you miss out on all sorts of stuff)
12:12 oleonard     It's an American Opossum, and I caught it in my back yard.
12:11 jcamins      oleonard: what is that, and where did you catch it?
12:08 oleonard     Because I know you were all waiting to see my catch: http://imgur.com/KE19Hxz
12:05 oleonard     Hi #koha
11:54 tweetbot     [off] twitter: @27point7: "@nengard by the way, do you know if it is possible to attach a file to a bib record (not to a patron record) in #KohaILS ?"
11:48 eythian      http://www.april.org/en/first-time-france-parliament-votes-legislation-gives-priority-free-software
11:25 kf           :)
11:25 eythian      later
11:25 wizzyrea     but yes have a good lunch I'll jabber at you all on the flip side
11:24 wizzyrea     thanks, I had curry for lunch
11:24 eythian      I think you mean lunchtime.
11:24 wizzyrea     hm might be bedtime
11:21 marcelr      hi #koha
11:05 wizzyrea     breeeeet <click click click>
11:05 wizzyrea     it's the same every day
11:05 wizzyrea     the one in my neighborhood has a specific call for me
11:05 wizzyrea     <3
11:04 rangi        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh_Ly4ewgCM
11:03 wizzyrea     chatty thing, we talk every morning
11:03 * wizzyrea   has the friendliest tui in her neighborhood
11:02 drojf        who needs birds if you can have cats?
11:02 oleonard     I'll check the logs for more info on wild animals
11:02 rangi        psychos
11:02 oleonard     I'll be back later
11:02 rangi        cos cats kill for fun
11:02 rangi        yeah cats are super bad when you have flightless birds
11:02 BobB         good night #koha
11:01 wizzyrea     but still vile.
11:01 wizzyrea     ok stoats are reasonably cute.
11:01 wizzyrea     more cats now too eh
11:01 wizzyrea     blarg
11:00 rangi        http://www.doc.govt.nz/conservation/threats-and-impacts/animal-pests/animal-pests-a-z/stoats/
11:00 rangi        that dude was a genius!
11:00 rangi        and then the stoats they introduced to kill the rabbits
10:59 rangi        and rabbits
10:59 rangi        deer too
10:59 wizzyrea     yes, they should not eat kiwis. :( Kiwis are cute.
10:58 rangi        serves them right for eating kiwis
10:58 rangi        you kills them first
10:58 rangi        http://wearnewzealand.com/fashion-catalogue/possum-merino-knitwear
10:58 * wizzyrea   imagines bald possums, shudders
10:58 rangi        possum + merino = nice clothes
10:57 BobB         Cane toads!@!**@!
10:57 drojf        i bet it likes black metal. maybe it is even a black metal singer
10:57 BobB         Anything introduced is generally bad
10:56 drojf        i think it's lovely http://cdn.bobinoz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/24359966_819581de1c_o.jpg
10:56 rangi        and they arent cute when they are hissing and clawing their way up your leg
10:56 rangi        we dont have dingos to kill them
10:56 rangi        bad in nz
10:56 rangi        they are fine in australia
10:56 wizzyrea     are adorable pests.
10:56 wizzyrea     now, hedgehogs, on the other hand
10:56 rangi        http://www.doc.govt.nz/conservation/threats-and-impacts/animal-pests/animal-pests-a-z/possums/
10:55 wizzyrea     they are quite bad about the birds, I think
10:55 wizzyrea     they put out poison pellets to kill them off
10:55 rangi        possums are bad wrong and evil
10:55 oleonard     Ah, so Australia has cute possums, America has terrifying devil possums
10:54 wizzyrea     and pointy faces
10:54 wizzyrea     possums have those weird ratlike tails
10:53 wizzyrea     animal control?
10:53 BobB         You had me going there  :)
10:53 BobB         http://www.bobinoz.com/blog/4013/possums-and-opossums-australia-and-america-all-explained/
10:53 * thd        continues sleeping in the darkness where the possums cannot find me
10:53 drojf        have a possum BBQ?
10:52 thd          Possums are much better gymnasts than baby bunnies.
10:51 BobB         squirrel, p'raps
10:51 oleonard     We just got baby bunnies, and we knew some kind of animal had been coming to the back yard.
10:51 oleonard     Live trap, baited with some fruit.
10:51 thd          oleonard: Build a possum gymnasium.
10:51 oleonard     Nope.
10:50 BobB         kidding, surely?
10:50 BobB         ???
10:50 * oleonard   wonders what to do with it
10:50 thd          I will be pleased to see everyone in Reno.
10:50 * oleonard   caught a possum in his back yard last night
10:49 * wizzyrea   only drives because no one else seems to want to :P
10:49 oleonard     wizzyrea++
10:49 mtj          wizzyrea++ nice driving
10:49 BobB         thd, oleonard I will look forward to meeting you in Reno.
10:48 drojf        wizzyrea++
10:48 huginn`      Log:            http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/koha_irc_meeting_10_7_13.2013-07-10-10.06.log.html
10:48 huginn`      Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/koha_irc_meeting_10_7_13.2013-07-10-10.06.txt
10:48 huginn`      Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/koha_irc_meeting_10_7_13.2013-07-10-10.06.html
10:48 huginn`      Meeting ended Wed Jul 10 10:48:49 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
10:48 BobB         Thanks wizzyrea
10:48 wizzyrea     #endmeeting
10:48 wizzyrea     Thank you all again, have a good $timeofday
10:48 wizzyrea     gotya
10:48 wizzyrea     :)
10:48 thd          s/14/7/
10:48 thd          +1 7 Aug. 2 UTC
10:48 thd          +1 14 Aug. 2 UTC
10:48 wizzyrea     ok, 7th is alright - all ok :)
10:47 kf           ok, have to go - bbl
10:47 kf           i think shorter is better than longer
10:47 thd          Oh actually 2 UTC is not an obstacle for the first week.
10:47 wizzyrea     errr
10:47 drojf        unless brooke visits the opera
10:47 wizzyrea     mmm we usually do it first week
10:47 thd          Would anyone objecgt to 14 Aug.?
10:47 wizzyrea     because no one stopped me to tell me otherwise
10:46 wizzyrea     #agreed Next meeting is 7 Aug, 2013, 0200 UTC
10:46 * drojf      too
10:46 * kf         will be sleeping
10:45 wizzyrea     7 Aug, 2UTC?
10:45 wahanui      i guess 7th is worth a try
10:45 kf           7th?
10:45 drojf        i think it's the uneuropean timeslot. 2UTC?
10:45 wizzyrea     someone who is good at calendars please help
10:45 wizzyrea     #topic time and date of next meeting
10:45 wizzyrea     oh yes
10:44 kf           and a time
10:44 thd          :)
10:44 drojf        we should set a date ;)
10:44 wizzyrea     Thank you all very much for your attention and commitment to the community, we will see you back here next month (if not before!)
10:44 drojf        more cookies
10:44 kf           nope
10:44 wizzyrea     #topic Anything else?
10:43 wizzyrea     and drojf is again on the hook for kohacon emails :) but other than that, I think we are done here
10:43 kf           :)
10:43 wizzyrea     (but keep it up please and thank you)
10:43 wizzyrea     we are still working diligently to "test all the things" so can put a tick next to that one
10:43 rangi        its not like this is some new conference
10:42 wizzyrea     #topic Action items from last meeting
10:42 rangi        im fine with taht
10:42 thd          If we have people giving attention to proposed venues at this time the case may not be impossible, otherwise Argentina would be chosen by default.
10:41 wizzyrea     drojf++
10:41 BobB         Cook is out.  England 1-27 (for those who know what that means)
10:41 wizzyrea     #action drojf will send a reminder for people to get in their proposals by September 15
10:41 kf           drojf++ :)
10:41 drojf        yes
10:41 wizzyrea     will you do that drojf?
10:41 drojf        i'd send another mail asking for proposals a little before next meeting so we can have a look at the outcome at the meeting
10:40 wizzyrea     #info submissions due by 15 September, voting to commence first week of October
10:40 kf           and make sure we get the voting mechanism and tool sorted way in advance
10:40 rangi        that would make it impossible to actually organise a functional conference (or at least very very hard)
10:40 kf           i think another reminder to the list and begining of october/end of september
10:40 rangi        you cant really have the vote after october
10:40 wizzyrea     kohacon14
10:39 BobB         No, Sept is two months away.
10:39 rangi        what?
10:39 thd          wizzyrea. I think that drojf is correct meaning that you would be setting an impossible case.
10:39 wizzyrea     yep, and submissions by mid september
10:38 drojf        that is only a few weeks away ;)
10:38 drojf        so voting beginning of october?
10:38 wizzyrea     it's in october :P
10:38 wizzyrea     errr
10:38 drojf        a few weeks before kohacon is now :P
10:37 wizzyrea     let's say have the vote a few weeks before Kohacon, so that the organisers can meet and hobnob
10:37 drojf        i'd say around kohacon13
10:37 wizzyrea     or a month in advance?
10:37 wizzyrea     no later than kohacon?
10:36 wizzyrea     when do you want to cut off the proposals?
10:36 kf           that might also trigger more proposals
10:36 kf           I think next step would be setting a date for the vote?
10:36 wizzyrea     ah good someone who has something to talk about!
10:36 kf           I think we got one proposal from argentina
10:36 drojf        i set up a wiki page for the proposals and we already got a first entry by tcohen and bgkriegel for kohacon in argentina http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon2014_Proposals
10:36 drojf        i said i'd send a mail to the list asking for proposals, which i did http://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2013-June/036518.html
10:35 kf           :)
10:35 wizzyrea     #topic Kohacon14
10:35 wizzyrea     cool, so a few in attendance are going, and it should be a good time :D
10:35 mtj          0
10:35 oleonard     +1
10:34 cjh          0
10:34 eythian      0
10:34 kf           http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon13_Volunteers
10:34 * kf         wants to mention the volunteers page
10:34 kf           +1!
10:34 wizzyrea     attendance to kohacon
10:34 rangi        if we are going to kohacon
10:34 kf           sorry, got distracted for a sec :)
10:34 wizzyrea     0 (lianza instead)
10:34 kf           what are we voting?
10:33 drojf        0
10:33 slef         0
10:33 rangi        +1
10:33 thd          +1
10:33 BobB         +1
10:33 wizzyrea     yes, quick poll, how many in attendance are planning to go to Kohacon?
10:32 BobB         I'll be coming.  We think (at the mo') that Irma may not this time.
10:32 wizzyrea     fair enough -
10:32 wizzyrea     hm seems no one is around who wants to talk about that eh
10:31 wizzyrea     updates on kohacon? how is the planning going?
10:31 wizzyrea     3 months ago we released ^.^
10:31 wizzyrea     #topic Kohacon13
10:31 mtj          fwiw, 'needs signoff' was very low 3 months ago… such is progress :)
10:31 wizzyrea     on to
10:31 wizzyrea     ok, if there's nothing else about 3.14 (code name Pi)
10:30 rangi        http://bugs.koha-community.org/BAM/index.php?s=Koha&p=Koha&c=
10:30 drojf        we are a productive bunch of people ;)
10:30 wizzyrea     #info nothing in the signoff queue is all too old, so good work on that. Keep it up!
10:29 wizzyrea     yea the turnover seems quite good lately
10:29 mtj          thats a nice point chris :)
10:29 kf           oh wow true!
10:29 wizzyrea     #info get busy signoffers! only about 3 months left! (ish)
10:29 drojf        i think a lot goes in, a lot goes out
10:28 rangi        tho
10:28 rangi        nothing in there is very old to
10:28 mtj          'needs signoff' is quite high, atm
10:28 kf           heh
10:27 wizzyrea     #info let the record show that it was wizzyrea who proclaimed the level of unimarc patches "silly," not kf
10:27 wizzyrea     ;)
10:27 wizzyrea     I did!
10:27 kf           hey, i didn't say that! :)
10:27 kf           and we have some bigger patches going back and forth
10:27 wizzyrea     #action someone please look at unimarc patches. It's getting a little silly.
10:26 kf           i think we need someone lookig at unimarc patches
10:26 kf           not too bad
10:26 wahanui      i heard dashboard was at http://dashboard.koha-community.org/
10:26 kf           dashboard?
10:26 wizzyrea     How are the queues looking?
10:26 wizzyrea     #info ask yourself what else might break and if the change makes sense
10:25 kf           thx wizzyrea :)
10:25 wizzyrea     #info and please try to go beyond the test plan of the developer
10:25 kf           so nothing new really ;)
10:25 cjh          kf++
10:25 wizzyrea     #info QA requests "please people, keep testing and test well, sign off and write test plans"
10:25 kf           :)
10:25 kf           shush
10:25 drojf        i'm german, we follow orders
10:25 kf           ask yourself what else might break and if the change makes sense
10:24 kf           oh and also, try to go beyond the test plan of the developer
10:24 kf           hm i guess the usual: please people, keep testing and test well, sign off and write test plans
10:24 BobB         :)
10:24 kf           might just show up any second out of nowhere
10:24 wizzyrea     QA, would you like to say anything?
10:24 kf           you know the ninja he is...
10:24 wizzyrea     I highly doubt it.
10:23 wizzyrea     well yes, but is he around?
10:23 wahanui      rumour has it gmcharlt is an expert in all things library technology
10:23 wizzyrea     gmcharlt?
10:23 wizzyrea     #topic 3.14 update
10:23 wizzyrea     right - so
10:23 eythian      it's all fine.
10:23 wizzyrea     excellent. no news is good news.
10:23 eythian      not really.
10:23 wizzyrea     besides what is already noted? :P
10:22 cjh          heh
10:22 wizzyrea     anything to note really?
10:22 wizzyrea     #topic packaging update
10:22 wizzyrea     speaking of, it's not in the agenda - but
10:22 wizzyrea     cool, thanks eythian
10:22 wizzyrea     #info 3.12 has a new dependency, it will require a dist-upgrade instead of a normal upgrade for package users
10:21 eythian      (this catches people out whenever it happens)
10:21 eythian      Just making sure it's documented somewhere.
10:21 eythian      a minor thing is that 3.12 has a new dependency, so the next release will require a dist-upgrade rather than a normal one.
10:21 wizzyrea     continue, eythian :)
10:21 oleonard     Hush wahanui
10:20 kf           tcohen++ bgkriegel++? :)
10:20 wahanui      i think one thing is sure there is no  AllowIssuingForPatronsWithOverdues in C4/Members.pm in the untarred source tree of koha-3.02.01.tar.gz
10:20 eythian      oh one thing
10:20 wizzyrea     does anyone have anything they would like to bring up for posterity regarding 3.10 or 3.12 at this time?
10:20 wizzyrea     also not, so the same update there as well - releases are continuing on schedule.
10:19 kf           hm might be a little early for him not sure
10:19 wizzyrea     is tcohen about?
10:19 wizzyrea     #topic 3.12 update
10:19 wizzyrea     soo
10:19 wizzyrea     I think the maintainer is not around - my knowledge of it is that releases are continuing on schedule
10:18 cjh          I don't think Bernardo is here
10:18 kf           :)
10:17 wizzyrea     #topic 3.10 update
10:17 cjh          kf: that is the plan :)
10:17 wizzyrea     cjh++, thanks for the update
10:17 eythian      (or, there's sufficient call for them, which hasn't really happened)
10:17 drojf        eythian: i don't :)
10:17 eythian      drojf: if you want to build and maintain them :)
10:16 kf           so i think if cjh is willing to continue until 3.14 that would be nice?
10:16 rangi        drojf: hasnt happened yet
10:16 wizzyrea     #info cjh thinks he will stop as maintainer for 3.8 after the Pi release
10:16 slef         #info MJ Ray, software.coop member, England
10:16 drojf        will we have packages of older releases at some point?
10:15 rangi        releases are always maintained as long as someone wants to maintain them
10:15 cjh          my thinking was that at the 3.14 release I wouldn't continue, so it depends if someone else wanted to carry it on.
10:15 kf           hm i think we always said that we will maintain it as long as someone wants to maintain
10:15 wizzyrea     or, how is *anyone* feeling about retiring the 3.8 line
10:14 wizzyrea     how are you feeling about retiring the 3.8 line?
10:14 kf           cjh++ :)
10:14 cjh          I think that is everything I have worth saying.
10:13 wizzyrea     #info 3.8.15, assuming that the translations are fixed, will be on schedule
10:13 cjh          3.10.x hasnt had any more patches since it's last release, so I will have to check bugzilla for that, the translations themselves might justify a 3.8.15.
10:12 wizzyrea     cool, so yes
10:12 kf           thd: I think oleonard has proven he is not one of those people
10:12 wizzyrea     you planning a 15?
10:12 cjh          the problem we had with 3.8.14 regarding translations may have a fix, email from bgkriegel that I have to look into, so hopefully 3.8.15 will have some new translations :)
10:11 cjh          Things have been very quiet since 3.8.14
10:11 mtj          #info http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_10_July_2013
10:11 thd          oleonard: just making certain people who believe the world is exactly 960 pixels wide have not been creeping in the back door.
10:11 wizzyrea     cjh, over to you
10:11 wizzyrea     #topic 3.8 update
10:11 wizzyrea     Alrighty then, on to
10:11 wizzyrea     other announcements?
10:10 wizzyrea     #action Liz will check about sending the responsive demo to the mailing list
10:10 mtj          #info Mason James, NZ
10:10 mtj          hi all
10:10 wizzyrea     ;)
10:10 oleonard     thd: Responsive, yes
10:10 wizzyrea     thd: you should check it
10:10 thd          oleonard: Is that also fully resizeable with no commitment to particular screen size?
10:09 oleonard     It's still a work-in-progress, but I'm interested in getting feedback
10:09 wizzyrea     not really sure about that kf
10:09 kf           wizzyrea: culd get more libraries involved in testing
10:09 kf           wizzyrea: can we send that to the maling list maybe?
10:09 cjh          awesome
10:09 wizzyrea     we are running a copy of oleonard's responsive bootstrap opac at responsive.mykoha.co.nz
10:09 oleonard     If anyone hasn't heard, I'm working on a new theme for the OPAC
10:08 wizzyrea     anybody got any?
10:08 wizzyrea     #topic Announcements
10:08 wizzyrea     we'll start with
10:08 wizzyrea     Alright, welcome everybody to the July edition of the Koha IRC community meeting
10:08 kf           lots of catalyst tonight :)
10:07 thd          #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City (asleep)
10:07 cjh          #info Chris Hall, Catalyst IT
10:07 eythian      #info Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT
10:07 BobB         #info Bob Birchall, Calyx, Australia
10:07 rangi        #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT
10:07 drojf        #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin
10:07 oleonard     #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
10:07 jwagner      #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS
10:07 wizzyrea     #info Liz Rea, Catalyst IT
10:06 kf           #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany
10:06 wizzyrea     gogo
10:06 wahanui      #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
10:06 wizzyrea     #topic introductions
10:06 kf           wizzyrea: thx :)
10:06 huginn`      The meeting name has been set to 'koha_irc_meeting_10_7_13'
10:06 huginn`      Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
10:06 huginn`      Meeting started Wed Jul 10 10:06:34 2013 UTC.  The chair is wizzyrea. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
10:06 wizzyrea     #startmeeting Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13
10:06 thd          Someone in some other part of the world must be awake.
10:06 BobB         :)
10:06 wahanui      i already had it that way, huginn`.
10:06 wahanui      if there is a meeting then Brooke must want me
10:06 huginn`      wizzyrea: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee'
10:06 wizzyrea     #startmeeting
10:06 drojf        oh look, kf volunteered :)
10:06 kf           worth a try
10:05 kf           gmcharlt: ? :)
10:05 kf           are we?
10:04 BobB         I think we're waiting for a chairperson?
10:04 jwagner      My calendar says there's a meeting....
10:03 oleonard     Hi #koha
10:02 drojf        church bells say it's time for a meeting ;)
09:59 cjh          and back xD
09:56 wizzyrea     cookies! Cookies for everyone!
09:56 wahanui      Cookies are delicious delicacies
09:56 eythian      wahanui: cookies
09:55 kf           cookies
09:49 * drojf      hopes somebody will bring meeting cookies
09:39 rangi        yep
09:38 cjh          leaving for home now, hope to make it..
09:37 cjh          so the meeting is in 20 mins?
09:33 rangi        http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=IWELLING75
09:33 rangi        hmm 8.8 apparently
09:31 rangi        yeah, its more like 7
09:29 wizzyrea     10 seems optimistic
09:24 huginn`      eythian: The current temperature in Brighton, Brighton, United Kingdom is 21.6°C (10:15 AM BST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 69%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.27 in 1025 hPa (Steady).
09:24 eythian      @wunder brighton, uk
09:18 huginn`      rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 10.0°C (9:00 PM NZST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Pressure: 30.42 in 1030 hPa (Rising).
09:18 rangi        @wunder nzwn
08:46 drojf        i wanted to send a meeting reminder to the mailing list but can't access that email account at the moment. if somebody else feels like doing it, go ahead
08:43 drojf        hi eythian
08:42 eythian      hi
08:11 kf           hi sophie_m :)
08:11 sophie_m     Guten Morgen kf
07:50 kf           good morning #koha
07:33 dcook        All right. Night time.
07:26 dcook        Oy...
07:26 dcook        And that there is no reason to have "Book" and "Continuing Resource" when they're both of "Language material" or "Text" type...
07:25 dcook        That moment when you spend 15 minutes cleverly figuring out a way to make a Record Type facet match the "Type" of the XSLT...just to realize that you're really just changing the label for the same value: "a"
07:25 * dcook      waves to gaetan_B
07:22 gaetan_B     hello
07:14 tweetbot     [off] twitter: @shangueh: "Youpi! 2 SETs OAI ready dans #KohaILS Plus qu'1 avant moissonnage par #omeka"
07:11 tweetbot     [off] twitter: @shangueh: "Un peu de bonheur à la @BibliothequeENC, du Jquery dans #KohaILS. Merci @jsicot Merci @YvesTomic"
06:58 christophe_c hello #koha
06:50 wahanui      bidet, reiveune
06:50 reiveune     hello
06:40 dcook        Seemed relevant to that cover image...
06:40 dcook        My test bib? "Alcohol and alcoholism : international journal of the Medical Council on Alcoholism"
06:40 dcook        I thought there was some vandalism until I realized I was the one who put in that test ISBN...
06:39 dcook        [off] http://www.amazon.com/Compact-Porta-Laminate-Cover-White/dp/0123456789/
06:39 dcook        [off] Ever wonder what'll happen if you give Amazon an ISBN of 0123456789 ?
06:26 drojf        :)
06:26 BobB         But thanks!  :)
06:26 BobB         Hurumphhhh
06:26 huginn`      drojf: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 15.0°C (4:00 PM EST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.45 in 1031 hPa (Steady).
06:26 drojf        @wunder sydney, australia
06:26 drojf        lol
06:26 drojf        hi BobB
06:26 BobB         Well, we're here.
06:26 huginn`      BobB: Error: No such location could be found.
06:26 BobB         @wunder Sydney NSW
06:25 huginn`      BobB: Error: No such location could be found.
06:25 BobB         @wunder Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
06:25 BobB         hi cait  :)
06:24 cait         hi BobB :)
06:24 huginn`      cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 18.3°C (8:20 AM CEST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Rising).
06:24 cait         @wunder Konstanz
06:24 huginn`      drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 19.7°C (8:13 AM CEST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 64%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady).
06:23 drojf        @wunder berlin, germany
06:23 drojf        hi cait :)
06:23 cait         good morning drojf
06:22 drojf        good morning #koha
05:55 tweetbot     [off] twitter: @IrmaLibraries: "I was asked what innovation is ... To me true innovation is doing something different/ly that delivers value and I gave #KohaILS as example"
05:48 dcook        Bug report!
05:47 dcook        But I don't overly want to fix it at the moment...
05:47 dcook        Oh my...DisplayOPACiconsXSLT does not make sense...
05:45 dcook        I know I've certainly done that when trying to extract values from a MARC object in Perl
05:45 dcook        If not, I'm sure you would get a "008 is not defined..." warning that would stop your script
05:44 dcook        Are you checking to see if you have an 008 defined before doing that elsif?
05:43 bag          heh
05:43 bag          basically dcook it's reading shitty perl by a tired person :P
05:43 bag          but for some reason if there isn't a 008 in the record it doesn't make it down to my final esle - which say nothing found make it UNKONWN itype
05:42 bag          or just leader 6 = 'c' make it this itype
05:42 bag          then running it through about 30 if eslif (leader 6 = 'a') && (008 = "i") make it this itype
05:41 dcook        Not sure I follow..
05:41 bag          well I'm just selecting bib number from items  (got items but no itypes)…
05:40 bag          language is bag = dumbass :P
05:40 dcook        And with what language
05:39 dcook        Depends on how you're iterating through your collection of records, I suppose
05:39 bag          but it's just not clear to me at the moment
05:39 dcook        lol
05:39 bag          so I know I need to add a - well SHIT if there isn't a 008 then skip the record dood
05:39 dcook        Neat idea, btw
05:38 dcook        Certainly sounds like a logic issue
05:38 bag          but somewhere in my script if the record does not have a 008 - it bombs out
05:37 bag          I'm creating a script to map leader positions or 008 positions to create itypes for a library that is not automated ...
05:37 cait         :P
05:37 cait         too early in th emorning for that
05:37 dcook        I like logic :D
05:37 dcook        Logic?
05:36 bag          hmmm…  need a bit of logic help
05:31 dcook        Hmm, maybe I'll just change my record type facet to accord with the defs laid out in the XSLT...that could work
05:27 dcook        Of course, it makes my record type facet look terrible now :p
05:27 dcook        Someone did a great job on the OPAC XSLT
05:26 cait         ok
05:26 cait         oh
05:26 dcook        cait: Yep, I think it's in 4.5 hours
05:26 dcook        4.5 maybe..
05:26 dcook        Or maybe it's in 5 hours..
05:25 dcook        For some reason I thought that would have UTC...
05:25 huginn`      dcook: The current temperature in Sydney Airport, New South Wales is 15.0°C (3:00 PM EST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 64%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.47 in 1032 hPa (Falling).
05:25 dcook        @wunder sydney, australia
05:25 dcook        I think it's already past?
05:24 cait         or did i miss it already?
05:24 cait         someone good with timezones? :)
05:24 cait         when is the irc meeting today?
05:18 dcook        hehe
05:18 cait         :)
05:17 wahanui      go back to bed, eythian
05:17 cait         eythian?
05:17 cait         cjh: heh
05:13 wahanui      okay, cjh.
05:13 cjh          wahanui: eythian is also <reply>go back to bed, eythian
05:13 wahanui      ...but eythian is great at jokes. That everyone else misses them isn't his problem.|an expert bot trainer...
05:13 cjh          wahanui: eythian is <reply>go back to bed, eythian
05:12 cjh          eythian is <reply>go back to bed, eythian
05:12 cait         cjh: wish i could :)
05:12 cait         hi bag and cjh :)
05:12 wahanui      go back to bed, cait.
05:12 cjh          cait?
05:12 bag          heya cait
04:41 papa         yep, hi
04:41 AmitG        papa around?
04:29 dcook        I understand the example but that's...blegh
04:29 dcook        Blegh...
04:28 dcook        http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Understanding_Zebra_indexing#.22Abandon_hope.2C_all_ye_who_enter.22
04:19 dcook        Rather than concatenating each subfield together to form one string to put in the title index...
04:19 dcook        the melm 245 adds each subfield to the title index
04:19 dcook        Or what I mean is...
04:19 dcook        I think jcamins might've outlined this once, but I don't think Zebra (at least with GRS-1) indexes the whole 245
04:18 dcook        Mmm, I think I see the reason again
04:18 dcook        Hmm, anyone having issues doing phrase searches for titles with GMDs in square brackets?
03:47 wizzyrea     ^.^
03:39 mtj          its so hard these days, finding a hunk that values commitment
03:38 mtj          weird and sexy...
03:22 wizzyrea     that was a weird conversation.
03:21 cjh          heh
03:20 trea         i'm not insane. my mother had me tested.
03:20 bag          or we a fan's of dood hunks like trea
03:20 wahanui      somebody said trea was a fan of Ender's Game too
03:20 druthb       wahanui: trea?
03:20 bag          and a fan of himself
03:20 cjh          and now he is committed.
03:20 * trea       blinks.
03:20 bag          trea is a dood hunk
03:20 wizzyrea     spellcheck++
03:19 cjh          yet.
03:19 wizzyrea     and he's not institutionalised.
03:19 * wizzyrea   is only married to one hunk
03:18 wizzyrea     I didn't know he had that trick up his sleeve
03:18 * druthb     looks for a string of good-looking men in mental institutions all around, with connections to wizzyrea.
03:17 wizzyrea     looool
03:17 * druthb     reboots her parser.
03:17 bag          hunks as in doods?
03:17 wizzyrea     LOL
03:17 wahanui      wizzyrea is a fan of selecting hunks for committing.
03:17 bag          hey wizzyrea
03:16 wizzyrea     hi bag
03:16 wizzyrea     borrowers, patrons, whatever
03:16 wizzyrea     yay, create a whole bunch of testing users at once! http://www.fakenamegenerator.com/order.php
03:15 bag          evening
03:04 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9774 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Search results shows "no holds allowed" for items "Waiting"
03:04 wizzyrea     found it - bug 9774
02:57 wizzyrea     this sounds so familiar to me
02:57 wizzyrea     does anyone recall a bug where items that are waiting cannot be placed on reserve from the result screen in the OPAC
02:41 trea         ahh, that makes sense
02:41 wizzyrea     with two l's
02:41 wizzyrea     yea, that looks like a bad path, actualy
02:40 dcook        Isn't ccsr just for the opac though?
02:40 wizzyrea     guessing ccsr doesn't have that file
02:40 wizzyrea     no but
02:39 trea         "Could not create file parser context for file "/home/koha/kohaclone/koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/ccsr/en/xslt/compact.xsl": No such file or directory at /home/koha/kohaclone/catalogue/showmarc.pl line 62"
02:39 trea         hey #koha, has anyone seen a problem when trying to view as Card in the z39.50 search results?
02:29 jcamins      IE--
02:26 dcook        jcamins++
02:26 dcook        Hmm, looks like this jcamins fellow might've written the 773 section of MARC21slim2OPACDetail.xsl
02:22 wizzyrea     later, sleep well
02:19 mtompset     Have a good night, jcamins wizzyrea dcook and all lurkers on #koha. :)
02:19 mtompset     I think so. :)
02:18 dcook        night mtompset?
02:18 dcook        Pssh
02:18 dcook        "Main entry heading"
02:18 dcook        Gotta love the wording of MARC
02:17 mtompset     6am... that should be possible, if I go to sleep now.
02:17 wahanui      interesting is, like, sometimes good and sometimes bad
02:17 dcook        Interesting...
02:16 dcook        Hmm, of course...there had to be a time when there is both a A and a T...
02:16 mtompset     Oh... what time is 10:00 UTC?
02:15 mtompset     just a second... testing something.
02:11 mtompset     I know.
02:11 wizzyrea     they're wrong too :P
02:11 mtompset     wizzyrea: It's okay... It isn't like I'm going to the express lane where it is 12 items or less. ;)
02:11 dcook        Because of the template's foreach
02:10 dcook        Mmm, right
02:10 jcamins      Both.
02:10 jcamins      Nope.
02:10 wizzyrea     and now that I've used up an entire year's worth of grammar naziism, i'm going away again.
02:10 * dcook      wonders what would happen if the 773 had both an A subfield and a T subfield...probably would just use the first subfield it encountered...
02:10 wizzyrea     I can't speak to your current ability to ^.^
02:09 wizzyrea     "you" in the general sense
02:09 mtompset     at this hour, I can't count past 3. :P
02:09 wizzyrea     ;)
02:09 wizzyrea     but you can, so it's fewer.
02:09 wizzyrea     which actually, makes it kind of antisocial
02:09 mtompset     if you can't count the number of files, it's less. :P
02:08 wizzyrea     no, his attitude is only funny coming from him, and when you're not the target of it.
02:08 dcook        Although she doesn't think it's funny when I say things like Sheldon :p
02:08 dcook        My wife used to ridicule me for watching that show...until she watched a few clips herself
02:08 wizzyrea     hehe probably
02:07 dcook        I think Sheldon on BBT did a pretty good explanation of fewer vs less.
02:07 wizzyrea     fewer files.
02:07 mtompset     less files [than before]. :P
02:07 dcook        wizzyrea: Unless they're LESS files rather than less files.
02:07 dcook        It substring matches the @code attribute against the codes string which is multiple characters wide
02:06 * wizzyrea   goes away again
02:06 wizzyrea     you can count the files, so you modify fewer of them.
02:06 dcook        mtompset, but codes isn't 1 character wide most of the time, me thinks
02:06 wizzyrea     mass nouns vs count nouns ;)
02:06 mtompset     how does xslt know that codes is only 1 character wide?
02:05 mtompset     wizzyrea: fewer?
02:04 mtompset     dcook: Nah... plus a much... much more happy. :P
02:04 * dcook      goes back to the XSLT and thanks jcamins once again
02:04 dcook        Who needs commas?
02:04 dcook        Although this morning I was thinking I would probably be happier if I didn't notice spelling and grammar issues in the wild.
02:03 dcook        Complimentary gifts always make me wonder as well...
02:03 dcook        Happier (minus the more :P)
02:02 wizzyrea     fewer.
02:02 dcook        Thanks, jcamins :).
02:01 mtompset     Who needs sysprefs. ;)
02:01 dcook        And we use long strings because the XPATH contains does a substring search of the codes string...
02:01 mtompset     Put it all in koha-conf.xml :)
02:01 mtompset     More happier that I've tweaked my external authentication patch to modify LESS files. :)
02:01 mtompset     less true right now.
02:00 wahanui      somebody said mtompset was disliking the silent warnings flooding his error logs.
02:00 dcook        hey mtompset
02:00 mtompset     Greetings, druthb. :)
01:59 druthb       hi, mtompset! :)
01:59 druthb       Trickssssy little catalogersssss..
01:59 mtompset     Greetings, jcamins dcook.
01:59 dcook        Tricksy
01:59 dcook        Mmm
01:59 jcamins      It just so happens that _ is not a valid subfield code so it never matches anything.
01:58 wahanui      neither is running out of time and beeing a nolifer because of all the zebra problems...
01:58 jcamins      Neither.
01:58 jcamins      The _ is basically a no-op.
01:58 dcook        is the underscore Koha specific or an XSL thing?
01:58 jcamins      It's because "at" is translated."
01:57 dcook        I suppose I should look at the template..
01:57 dcook        I've seen strings like "abcdefgz" but not "a_t"...
01:57 dcook        Does <xsl:with-param name="codes">a_t</xsl:with-param> refer to codes "a" or "t"?
01:57 mtompset     Greetings, #koha.
01:57 dcook        Quick question for any Koha XSLT whizzes out there...
01:54 jcamins      jQuery is a library that does lots of stuff -- well, everything, when you take into account plugins -- and Angular is a framework with a templating and routing system.
01:53 jcamins      They have very little in common, really, other than both being Javascript.
01:53 mtj          despite having some things in common
01:52 mtj          tho, i think the big point might be… angular and jquery are quite different?
01:47 mtj          heh, yeah, im not actually suggesting we should do that :)
01:46 jcamins      That'd be a heck of a lot of work.
01:45 mtj          …just as a friendlier replacement for general jquery code
01:44 mtj          ah ok, i wasnt thinking about the server-side part of angular
01:36 jcamins      And I have cheerfully thrown out 300% of the code that there is, so why not make it 400%?
01:36 wizzyrea     and is not necessarily one of mine, but it might come up
01:36 jcamins      I'm switching to Angular for Biblionarrator, but there's a lot less code.
01:36 jcamins      wizzyrea: that wasn't one of my objections, though.
01:36 wizzyrea     also there will probably be some suspicion of google.
01:35 jcamins      Because server-side fallback is wildly complex.
01:35 mtj          hmm, why no for the opac?
01:34 jcamins      Given the amount of effort that would be necessary to do it well and with server-side fallback where server-side fallback is needed... I can't see anywhere near enough benefit to justify the amount of time it would take.
01:34 jcamins      In a perfect world, yes for both.
01:33 jcamins      Actually, let me rephrase that.
01:33 jcamins      mtj: for the OPAC, absolutely not. For the staff client, I guess I'm not sure what the benefit would be.
01:30 mtj          how do people feel about angular being used in koha?
01:23 dcook        jcamins: I would guess not. I think my latest foray into plain old Javascript recently was analyzing the DOM and even that was...less than pleasant.
01:23 dcook        cumberbatch?
01:23 jcamins      dcook: not recommended for DOM manipulation.
01:22 mtj          cumberment
01:22 dcook        Plain old Javascript...O_O
01:22 jcamins      *encumbrance
01:22 jcamins      At which point you realize that you're okay with jQuery levels of encumberment.
01:22 jcamins      Up until you compare it to plain old Javascript.
01:21 jcamins      mtj: jQuery *is* cumbersome.
01:21 dcook        jcamins: Mmm, I was wondering if that's what you meant. Yeah, I've never seen the point of that at all.
01:21 mtj          ^^ it makes jq look cumbersome
01:20 jcamins      dcook: actually, it's the "labeled MARC view," sorry.
01:20 mtj          ...the 'hello world' demo is flippn sweet  -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uFTFsKmkQnQ
01:20 jcamins      It seems very, very cool.
01:19 wizzyrea     they use that here some
01:19 jcamins      *Right* now.
01:19 jcamins      mtj: actually, I'm just playing with Angular now.
01:19 mtj          hi all, slightly off-topic but… has everyone discovered angular yet -> http://www.angularjs.org/
01:19 dcook        Might just be a difference of terminology
01:19 jcamins      I think that proves my point admirably.
01:18 huginn`      druthb: The operation succeeded.
01:18 druthb       @later tell bag d00d do you make a habit of keeping old ladies up past their bedtime?  I may be here, give it a shot, or email me.
01:18 dcook        Possibly not?
01:18 jcamins      s/^ii//
01:18 jcamins      iiI guess you don't use it either.
01:17 jcamins      Yeah.
01:17 dcook        Expanded MARC view?
01:17 dcook        Or else we would only need one framework
01:17 jcamins      Well, I suppose the "expanded MARC view" is impacted, but... show of hands... how many people use it other than Koha people? None? Right.
01:17 dcook        But then it is useful to sometimes hide fields from the editor
01:17 dcook        Good point.
01:17 dcook        Mmmm.
01:16 jcamins      The only thing impacted by any setting is the editor.
01:16 dcook        especially in terms of functionality.
01:16 dcook        Although they might not govern any result/detail views (especially with XSLT), they still govern that editor view which is pretty important
01:16 jcamins      I meant in terms of functionality.
01:15 dcook        jcamins: They *should* just be lists of fields, but they're certainly more than that
01:15 druthb       Hi, dcook!
01:15 dcook        hey druthb :)
01:15 druthb       o/
01:15 dcook        Well...when I say "for good", I meant more in terms of what I was saying than what you were saying :p
01:15 jcamins      The frameworks are just a list of fields.
01:14 jcamins      It has nothing to do with the frameworks.
01:14 dcook        Having all the tags there is handy though
01:14 jcamins      Nope.
01:14 dcook        I was hoping this latest round of framework updates would fix things up for good
01:14 dcook        That's interesting
01:13 dcook        O_o
01:13 jcamins      Since the non-public notes still show up, I'm going to go with "not important at all." ;)
01:12 dcook        With the exception of non-public notes, perhaps
01:12 dcook        Not really sure how important that is
01:12 dcook        True. It just governs the MARC views when using TT
01:12 jcamins      I mean, it's not like it's not shown.
01:11 jcamins      I question the value of hiding anything from the OPAC and intranet.
01:11 dcook        That way, it's hidden from the OPAC and Intranet, but is present (collapsed) in the editor...
01:11 dcook        The default should probably be a visibility of "3" rather than "-6"...
01:09 * jcamins    moves his default framework around.
01:09 dcook        exactly even
01:09 dcook        My thoughts exacctly
01:09 jcamins      Really? Weird.
01:08 dcook        Like the 773
01:08 dcook        However, it looks like the default framework has at least some fields where all the subfields are hidden from the editor
01:08 dcook        jcamins: Makes sense.
01:07 jcamins      dcook: that's why I tell my libraries that they can add fields to the default framework but not remove them.
01:06 dcook        Collapsed is fine, since they just won't see the data, but if it is hidden from the editor, that data will be tossed when they hit save, since the record is completely rebuilt from the HTML form...
01:05 dcook        However, if they edit using the default framework, they can still lose data, if there are fields that are marked as !Editor
01:05 dcook        If the default framework has every possible field/subfield, except extremely local tags, then all data will be imported properly
01:04 dcook        Hmm...just thinking about frameworks...
00:27 pianohacker  regardless of size, all contributions are good
00:27 pianohacker  dcook++
00:25 pianohacker  heh, yup. There's always stuff
00:22 dcook        Very true. I appreciate the long-tail. Makes me feel better about my contributions, even though I have heaps left to do...
00:22 pianohacker  and there's a huge long-tail effect
00:21 pianohacker  yup :) which surprises me, actually
00:21 dcook        I think you're 45
00:21 dcook        I like numbers?
00:21 dcook        pianohacker: http://git.koha-community.org/stats/koha-master/authors.html
00:20 pianohacker  dcook: is there a ranking?
00:00 dcook        Just one more commit and I'll be up to #58 in master...