Time Nick Message
23:58 rangi awesome
23:57 jcamins rangi: http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=contrib/global.git;a=summary
23:57 mtompset Ah... RaiseError in the connect statement.
23:55 eythian or DBI rather
23:55 eythian the DBD docs tell you about that I think
23:54 mtompset DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'kohadata.TRYMEOUT2' doesn't exist at ./test2.pl line 21.
23:53 mtompset I want to handle them myself.
23:52 mtompset I know there will be messages like "db doesn't exist' or "db already exists".
23:52 mtompset I don't want output.
23:52 mtompset perhaps.
23:51 rangi you arent confusing warns with errors again?
23:51 mtompset I'm trying that, but it isn't working.
23:50 rangi http://search.cpan.org/~doy/Try-Tiny-0.12/lib/Try/Tiny.pm
23:49 mtompset Is there a nice way to silence errors and determine there was one?
23:29 pianohacker bye
22:04 mtompset Now I'm on my desktop computer... let's get coding. :)
22:04 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
21:32 Brooke I gots to go though
21:32 Brooke hope it was fun
21:32 Brooke oh wow
21:28 cait for started on monday, came back tonight
21:28 cait travelling for work
21:28 cait lol no
21:26 Brooke unless you're in the states, in which case WHERE!?
21:26 Brooke wow, you were out late
21:20 cait just got home, cookies welcome
21:20 cait hi Brooke and thx
21:20 * Brooke hands cait an Akoma Chocolate Chip Cookie
21:19 Brooke its' Cait!
21:18 Brooke how's it shakin on the left siiiiiide?
21:12 bag heya Brooke
20:49 Brooke o/
19:53 mtompset Have a great day (24 hour period), everyone.
19:53 * druthb blinks… now I've heard everything. Scott Joplin's "Pine Apple Rag"…on handbells.
19:47 mtompset Because. :P
19:46 libsysguy bah, traffic is already bad....wwwwwhhhyyyyyy
19:46 druthb Right.
19:46 libsysguy :p
19:46 libsysguy oh thats right, just washington DC
19:45 * druthb never said that!
19:45 rangi the queryparser that jcamins did is a zillion times better
19:45 mtompset oleonard: Good Lord! Say you didn't do that. Say you didn't enter the labyrinth.
19:43 libsysguy what is it druthb says, Search.pm is so dense not even good search results can escape
19:43 oleonard Quick trip into Search.pm right before quitting time? Never a good idea.
19:42 libsysguy I was trying to get some elbow action in there with trex arms
19:42 libsysguy oh yes, I did mean that
19:42 mtompset libsysguy: What is o[? Don't you mean o<? :P
19:41 mtompset oleonard: Yes, yes it is. God be with you. :)
19:39 libsysguy Random: \o/ ^o^ o[ /o\
19:38 oleonard I have 9 minutes to discover how hard that would be before leaving for a week of vacation.
19:37 oleonard Hm, it would certainly simplify things if "SEARCH_RESULT.norequests" were true for available items if AllowOnShelfHolds is off...
19:34 oleonard Uh... "if" no options are enabled...
19:34 oleonard ...but I don't want to show an empty "actions" label no options are enabled
19:33 oleonard Urgh, the logic with which to tell if an "action" link will appear in OPAC search results is really convoluted...
19:30 mtompset jcamins: !important?! I encountered that issue with Koha. :P
19:18 cait heh
19:17 pianohacker #koha is all kinds of good drugs today
19:16 drojf that's what you get from smoking roast beef hash
19:15 * druthb dances a lil mambo.
19:13 cait hm it sounds weird reading it
19:13 cait oh right thx
19:13 jcamins Mambo.
19:12 cait hm.
19:12 cait m..
19:12 cait does someoen remember what joomla was called before it was joomla?
19:11 jcamins If you look up "legacy" in an online dictionary, it says "see Joomla."
19:11 jcamins oleonard: that's why I said there was a problem with legacy code.
19:10 oleonard Well, .... Joomla. :P
19:10 jcamins I think the site I was shaking my head over that had that problem used Joomla.
19:09 jcamins Where an ID selector from way up overrides the class selector, and the developer worked around it by adding !important instead of fixing the underlying problem, which is that div#content is a rather vague selector, really.
19:09 oleonard Yeah, I wonder if the specificity conflicts are a problem with different kinds of projects? I dunno.
19:08 pianohacker Because while I'm no battle-hardened web expert, the lack of reusability, js/css coupling and specificity fighting have never been huge issues
19:08 pianohacker jcamins: how so?
19:08 jcamins pianohacker: I've seen the problem he describes in legacy code.
19:07 pianohacker I... feel like he's inventing problems
19:06 pianohacker ...
19:04 oleonard http://csswizardry.com/2013/05/hashed-classes-in-css/
19:04 oleonard http://csswizardry.com/2011/09/when-using-ids-can-be-a-pain-in-the-class/
19:01 * oleonard hates remembering reading a link from Twitter and not being able to find it again
19:01 oleonard Not the one I was thinking of, but: http://oli.jp/2011/ids/
18:58 * cait is not amused
18:58 cait the train has to go slower because of a weather warning :(
18:58 cait ook
18:58 cait aah
18:58 * oleonard is trying to find the argument he read
18:58 oleonard cait: Those who argue for that method are not saying you shouldn't use ids in HTML and with JavaScript, just not as a hook for CSS
18:55 cait and if you do that.. no validator is going to tell you that you have used your intentionally unique id on more than one element on the page
18:55 cait why would ids be bad?
18:55 cait it doesn't make sense to me
18:55 * oleonard won't be using 'class="#something"' any time soon
18:55 oleonard I'm not convinced, so I'm not telling anyone to do it any particular way.
18:54 mtompset However, I'm no styling expert, so I would rather trust oleonard's opinion. :)
18:53 mtompset But creating that many classes seems overkill. Classes make for nice groupings of ids. Hence my granularity thought.
18:52 jcamins mtompset: so do classes if they are unique.
18:52 druthb Good for breakfast, on toast, with a fried egg on top.
18:52 mtompset I could be wrong, but don't id's give you a kind of granularity to the styling?
18:51 druthb Roast beef hash is the best kind...
18:51 oleonard 1. They think using ids for styling is bad. 2. They think 'class="#something"' conveys the same sense of importance others use an id to express.
18:50 jcamins oleonard: really? Why?
18:50 jcamins mtompset: because you've been writing hundreds of lines of Javascript.
18:50 oleonard Many are now recommending that people use 'class="#something"' and not use ids for styling at all.
18:50 * tcohen goes check his latest patch *just in case*
18:49 mtompset YUCK! Why would you put a hash in front of your id?!
18:49 pianohacker I'd hate to think you were doing it intentionally :)
18:49 jcamins pianohacker: only by accident.
18:49 pianohacker That's a new one... does anyone else also occasionally write id="#something" in their HTML?
18:48 pianohacker hurr, id != class
18:29 tcohen i fixed some koha-qa errors too oleonard
18:28 tcohen i resent the patch
18:22 cait understandable
18:22 oleonard Ugh, that page always sends me running away in fear.
18:21 cait ie version i mean
18:21 cait but as i am not sure which verion that was, i will check that first
18:21 cait that was particuluarly annoying
18:21 cait one thing was that you couldn't order multiple items when ordering, because the item form didn't come back after clicking add for the first time
18:20 cait but not the drag and drop
18:20 cait yeah
18:20 oleonard cait: JavaScript-related?
18:20 cait the problems were in acq and serials mostly
18:20 cait oleonard: ok :)
18:19 tcohen hmm, maybe some cache is hiding it from me
18:18 oleonard tcohen: The error does not happen in master
18:17 oleonard I probably wouldn't bother if it was only in IE7 or below
18:17 oleonard We don't technically support IE at all in the intranet, but I do my best to fix stuff I can.
18:16 cait if i can figure out the version of ie - how far back do we care?
18:16 cait should we file those? i forgot to get the ie version number in the training room
18:15 cait oleonard: during the trianing we noticed a couple of things in intranet not working with ie
18:14 tcohen not sure is related to the patch itself
18:14 tcohen it appears on current master i guess
18:12 oleonard tcohen: It appears in the Firebug console after you have selected one of the autocompleted items and the page redirects
18:11 tcohen where did y find the error oleonard ?
18:11 jcamins mtompset: only things that require cardnumbers.
18:09 tcohen oh
18:09 tcohen i'll check it oleonard, thanks for the feedback
18:09 oleonard tcohen: I think you need to wrap that JS in [% UNLESS ( borrowernumber ) %]
18:09 mtompset Does that cause things to break in Koha elsewhere, though?
18:09 oleonard tcohen: Your holds autocomplete works well, but once you've selected a patron and the page redirects there is a javascript error
18:08 jcamins Or you could even not have a cardnumber, yes.
18:08 mtompset Well, actually, do we need a cardnumber is a question that has been on my mind too.
18:07 mtompset yes, very similar to what gmcharlt suggested. His link got me thinking that way.
18:06 druthb hi, drojf! :)
18:06 jcamins *from the
18:06 drojf and hi druthb
18:06 cait hi drojf
18:06 drojf hi cait
18:05 druthb hi, mtompset.
18:05 jcamins mtompset: that sounds like what gmcharlt suggested, but are you sure you wouldn't be better off using a non-autogenerated cardnumber as a way to actually move forward with your development?
18:05 cait hm wonder if ids does it like we do
18:05 jcamins drojf: fromt he wiki page.
18:05 mtompset Greetings, druthb cait. :)
18:05 drojf jcamins: did you get the DRUCK_ORT question from the new wiki page about old prints (in german) or is that a strange coincidence?
18:05 mtompset virtual duct tape isn't as good as the real thing. :P
18:04 cait we are going through all those tunnels soon
18:04 cait not sure that will work
18:04 mtompset values don't duplicate because everything is serialized, and the processes won't deadlock, because even if two processes calculate a value for autoincrement value X, it should be the same value.
18:03 mtompset Creating a table to serialize (autoincrement, ID, value)... the process that needs a value generates a random string for an ID and does an insert into the table, but leaves value blank. It then calculates all the missing values, and grabs the last one for its own ID.
18:03 * druthb gets the duct tape, and tapes cait to her chair
18:01 mtompset And it won't deadlock and should work.
18:01 mtompset Ooooo.... I think I have an idea to deal with my critical section problem.
17:59 mtompset That be true.
17:58 drojf up to 38°C in the coming days. time to switch from "it's way too cold for summer" to "omg it's way too hot"
17:57 drojf hi mtompset
17:57 mtompset Greetings, drojf jcamins.
17:56 jcamins drojf: yeah, I had the same problem.
17:55 drojf fun fact: localstorage does not work if you have your cookie settings set to "ask every time". probably not magnuses problem, but i spent quite some time figuring that out
17:40 * magnuse has to get off the train now, see y'all later!
17:39 magnuse jcamins: nope, same thing with chromium
17:37 mtompset Greetings, tcohen.
17:37 tcohen hi mtompset
17:37 magnuse hiya mtompset
17:36 mtompset Greetings, magnuse. :)
17:36 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
17:36 magnuse like the offline html5 stuff is not working at all
17:36 magnuse no, i turn off apache and then when i try to access offline.pl i just get server not found
17:34 jcamins If you are I can try to add some handling for the error, at least.
17:34 jcamins Are you getting any sort of error?
17:34 magnuse ah, i'll try that then
17:34 magnuse jcamins: firefox
17:33 jcamins It looks like possibly it doesn't work under Firefox, but might under Chrome.
17:33 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10464 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Patron search on placing a hold doesn't use jqueryui.autocomplete
17:33 tcohen bug 10464
17:33 jcamins Which browser are you using?
17:32 * magnuse is on a train
17:32 jcamins Yeah, I read something about that as well, but I don't remember exactly where.
17:31 magnuse i have vague feeling i have read something about local storage not working for localhost, but i'm not sure
17:31 jcamins I suspect it would not work on localhost.
17:31 jcamins that is a good question.
17:31 jcamins ...
17:31 magnuse or does it have to be over the network to work?
17:31 magnuse do you know if it is supposed to work when koha runs on localhost?
17:30 jcamins Yay!
17:30 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10240 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Offline circulation using HTML5 and IndexedDB
17:30 magnuse i'm looking at bug 10240
17:30 magnuse good evening, sir
17:30 magnuse ah
17:30 jcamins I am.
17:27 magnuse jcamins around?
17:14 cait hmmmmm i can imagine that tastes yum? )
17:13 tcohen i don't have cookies for you, but how about patron autocomplete for placing holds?
17:12 cait hi tcohen
17:06 tcohen hi cait
17:05 * cait waves again
16:57 oleonard I re-learn jqueryui autocomplete every time I do it again.
16:57 oleonard I don't remember offhand tcohen, you'd have to give it a try.
16:56 tcohen i'm not used to the autocomplete jquery plugin, just asking for learning purposes
16:56 tcohen oleonard: do we really need to provide a render function for the autocomplete? isn't the fact that ysearch.pl retrieves a JSON enough for rendering?
16:40 gmcharlt heh; yeah, I'll be using more than just grep to evaluate those
16:34 jcamins oleonard: I've seen a few of those.
16:33 oleonard "TODO: Make this not broken."
16:27 * gmcharlt will push patches with TODOs, but is not inclined to push patches that introduce new FIXMEs unless absolutely necessary
16:25 * gmcharlt hands oleonard a paper bag to breath into
16:24 oleonard So. Many. FIXMEs.
16:22 oleonard gmcharlt++ # No FIXMEs
15:29 reiveune bye
15:27 cait :)
15:21 * druthb wriggles happily
15:21 libsysguy o/
15:20 * cait waves
15:13 jcamins I'll just generate IDs.
15:12 jcamins Text <input>s.
15:12 oleonard Which controls?
15:09 jcamins Ah... that messes up the layout.
15:02 jcamins oleonard: is wrapping controls in the label tag something that we are actively trying to avoid in Koha, or something that we just happen to not do?
14:59 wahanui de nada jcamins
14:59 jcamins wahanui: why thank you.
14:59 pianohacker good morning
14:59 wahanui I like *your* figure
14:59 jcamins Figures.
14:58 oleonard Yes
14:58 jcamins oleonard: does the for attribute always have to refer to an id?
14:44 gaetan_B bye !
14:42 oleonard That was a tough patch to get in.
14:41 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8662 - Remove unused famfamfam icons <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=32960372225163b76fd214813b9a4e10f39b162f>
14:33 libsysguy forms in general have their own special set of rules
14:32 oleonard Yeah for an entry form I don't think it's appropriate. Better for display.
14:32 jcamins I'm not 100% sold on using a collapse control, though.
14:32 oleonard We have the jQueryUI version already included in the staff client.
14:31 jcamins libsysguy: yeah, I considered that.
14:31 jcamins I just tried it on the right, and it doesn't really work.
14:31 jcamins I think I prefer the button on the left.
14:31 libsysguy http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/javascript.html#collapse
14:31 jcamins True.
14:30 oleonard On a long form like this I don't think vertical space is such a big deal. No way to avoid scrolling no matter what.
14:30 libsysguy less_vert_space++
14:29 oleonard I think I could go either way on the delete button but think the add button should stay left-aligned.
14:29 libsysguy jcamins opinions have noted and marked as incorrect :p
14:29 oleonard :)
14:29 jcamins Unless, of course, you decide you agree with him, in which case I think it's a great idea.
14:29 jcamins I disagree with libsysguy about moving the Add contact button.
14:28 jcamins oleonard: I was thinking of putting the button in the top right so that it used less vertical space.
14:28 oleonard Why put buttons on the right?
14:27 oleonard Also, use 'icon-remove' for delete
14:26 oleonard Within each individual fieldset is the delete button
14:25 jcamins I was thinking of a pull-right on the Delete contact, and possibly putting it up at the top of the fieldset as well.
14:25 oleonard My instinct is to say that the contact details for each contact should be in their own fieldset inside a grouping fieldset
14:25 libsysguy imo
14:25 libsysguy add a pull-right class to add contact button
14:24 oleonard Hmm...
14:22 jcamins oleonard: any suggestions on making these buttons fit in to the page and general Koha styling better? http://screencast.com/t/lpiLrlD6x1
14:22 khall you'd think I'd demonstrated a super power or something
14:21 libsysguy oh my
14:21 khall lol
14:21 khall it reminds me of when I showed a friend you could open a browser link with a middle click, he literally freaked out!
14:21 * jcamins should've chosen zjcamins as a nick.
14:21 jcamins Alas, I am the only one with jc, but one of many with j.
14:20 khall yeah, I just discovered that from your previous comment. Never knew about it!
14:20 jcamins khall: actually, you're the only one with k<tab>
14:19 khall ; )
14:19 khall but is *two* characters shorter! That's like a 40% increase in efficiency, right?
14:18 jcamins khall: why? You're the only one with kh<tab>
14:18 jcamins libsysguy: the problem is that you're not the only one with li<tab>.
14:17 * khall should switch to kmh
14:17 khall it's more efficient!
14:17 druthb "li<tab>"… how hard can it be?
14:16 nengard heh
14:16 libsysguy first nengard didn't want to type library_systems_guy so I shortened it to libsysguy, then khall wanted it to be lsg :p
14:15 druthb me!
14:15 libsysguy anybody remember when I was library_systems_guy
14:15 druthb jcamins: I may shift to a different space shortly—the learning room, maybe. The meeting is kind of immovable, since there's a bunch of folks in on it.
14:15 libsysguy heh dean_and_draper
14:15 libsysguy if we can hear it on 5 I know they are getting it hard
14:15 libsysguy druthb David said D&D were mega complaining
14:14 druthb Yeah, the Dean and Draper folks are probably not happy right now.
14:14 druthb libsysguy: no, I wasn't in on that.
14:13 jcamins You cPanelians have the weirdest IRC nicks. "dean_and_draper"?
14:12 libsysguy I bet Dean and Draper is pissed
14:12 libsysguy David was talking about it last night. Were you in on that convo?
14:12 jcamins Or reschedule the meeting?
14:12 jcamins druthb: ask if you can use a different office?
14:11 druthb If I didn't have a 12:30 meeting, I'd be out of here. It's freaking *intense* down here.
14:11 libsysguy :p
14:11 libsysguy email david
14:10 druthb They are *right above* my office.
14:10 druthb duuuude.
14:10 libsysguy but we are fume free
14:10 libsysguy we can hear some banging if we turn down the heavy metal
14:10 druthb hey, libsysguy—are the banging and paint fumes intense for you guys up on 5?
14:09 * druthb thanks Galen that it's Thursday, though.
14:09 libsysguy premature friday alert
14:09 druthb Indeed.
14:09 gmcharlt too soon!
14:08 huginn druthb: Quote #98: "drulm: TGIF=Thank Galen It's Friday" (added by wizzyrea at 07:15 PM, October 08, 2010)
14:08 druthb @quote random
14:02 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #146: "rangi: when I was at brendans house we went to the farmers market and bought lots of almonds which I had to eat on the plane, cos can't bringthem into nz, so I was offering ppl nuts on the plane. cait: makes sense rangi: if its sensible for a crazy nzer to be waving almonds in ur face at 3am, then yes" (added by wizzyrea at 08:03 PM, July 28, 2011)
14:02 gmcharlt @quote random
13:57 druthb :P
13:47 oleonard Heh... Lappy. http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail119.html
13:41 druthb If I did not have a 12:30 meeting, I'd be grabbing the lappy and working from home.
13:40 jcamins druthb: yay! Day off!
13:39 druthb well, this is…annoying. The construction on the third floor is apparently *right above my office*.
13:35 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6536] Z3950 Enhancements: SRU targets, MARC conversion, additional XSLT processing (umbrella report) <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6536>
13:32 marcelr have to go; bye all
13:31 tcohen you are right
13:31 oleonard It's fine with me, but I would tie it to the circautocomplete system preference
13:30 tcohen exactly
13:30 oleonard Patron autocomplete?
13:30 tcohen ?
13:30 tcohen what do u think of adding the autocomplete feature on placing a hold
13:30 oleonard Yes
13:30 wahanui i heard oleonard was still here, if you just wish hard enough. or Koha's master UI designer
13:30 tcohen oleonard?
13:26 tcohen hi druthb
13:21 druthb o/
13:02 tcohen a
13:02 tcohen morning #koh
12:46 oleonard The commenters on that Facebook post sounded like a lynch mob.
12:44 nengard yikes
12:38 oleonard The sheriff said on Facebook they were surprised they didn't find a charred body on the scene, given the kind of equipment they were messing with.
12:37 jcamins oleonard: really? You read about that, but I didn't realize people actually did that.
12:36 oleonard Took 9 hours to repair, for some reason.
12:36 oleonard Someone stole copper wire from the substation
12:28 Oak pakistan?
12:27 nengard storms?
12:24 * oleonard hopes to be around more than a half hour today, electricity willing.
12:20 oleonard Hi #koha
12:04 samueld hi everybody :-)
09:38 marcelr well could be worth a try now..
09:38 Joubu marcelr: Yes I think we should have a Logger.pm module. log4perl is maybe a better solution but I never used it.
09:36 marcelr i would leave it in a module
09:36 marcelr if log4perl is syslog compliant, that is a plus
09:36 marcelr could that not resolve the discussion?
09:35 Joubu marcelr: yes, maybe
09:32 marcelr Joubu: wouldn't it be easy to just replace LogLite with Log4Perl ?
09:31 marcelr Joubu around?
08:51 marcelr hi gaetan_B and rangi
08:40 rangi hi gaetan_B
08:37 gaetan_B hello
07:21 dcook good night #koha
07:20 dcook Dumplings ^_^
07:20 dcook That said, I actually have to run in a moment...
07:19 dcook I'm keen to chat to someone who can explain why that code is necessary :S
07:19 dcook Do you use UNIMARC at all?
07:19 dcook Besides wrapping it (which is already done), I suppose it would be an idea to add some checks for the variables...but I wonder why the code is necessary at all
07:18 dcook Pretty much :/
07:18 marcelr looks like you are abandoning it already
07:18 dcook I'm not really attached to the component
07:18 dcook Feel free to change it if you like
07:18 dcook true that :)
07:18 marcelr choosing the component is sometimes very arbitrary
07:16 dcook But it looks like the unimarc-specific code is wrapped with the marcflavour preference in master (I was looking in 3.8. I thought I checked master, but I must have had my git branch wrong.)
07:15 dcook Which should only be there if one is importing via z39.50
07:15 dcook Yeah, that sub is only called if there is a breedingid
07:14 dcook It's been a crazy day
07:14 * dcook checks
07:14 dcook I think...
07:14 dcook Except that it's irrelevant without z3950
07:13 dcook marcelr: Sort of
07:13 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10456 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , z3950NormalizeAuthor and z3950AuthorAuthFields cause problems for MARC21 (and are sloppily written)
07:13 marcelr dcook: your bug 10456 is more about cataloguing, i suppose
07:12 marcelr mtompset left quite fast
07:12 wizzyrea whaddup homies
07:06 mtompset Good day, everyone.
07:03 marcelr hi dcook
07:03 dcook hey ya marcelr
07:03 marcelr hi #koha
06:55 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10457 minor, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Needs Signoff , Export selected items data doesn't work when using checkall checkbox
06:55 dcook If anyone wants an easy sign off... bug 10457
06:53 dcook ta bag
06:53 dcook I'm about to head home and I'm on the other side of the world...
06:53 dcook About time, bag!
06:52 bag ok paul_p is in - that means it's way to late to be at the office - night everyone I'm heading home
06:50 paul_p hi bag !
06:50 bag heya paul_p
06:50 paul_p hello everyone !
06:45 drojf hi alex_a and dcook
06:45 dcook Guten morgen, drojf :)
06:44 alex_a good morning drojf
06:44 christophe_c hi alex_a
06:44 drojf good morning #koha
06:44 alex_a et salut christophe_c
06:44 alex_a salut dcook
06:43 christophe_c hello dcook ;-)
06:43 dcook salut alex_a, christophe_c
06:43 christophe_c hello #koha
06:42 dcook While I have confidence in the current volunteers, it would be tough to make sure that current and future volunteers are all able to maintain and upgrade Koha
06:41 dcook cjh: Alas, I've suggested that Koha might not be the right solution for them
06:41 dcook hey ya paul_p, reiveune
06:36 wahanui hi, reiveune
06:36 reiveune hello
06:24 cjh awesome
06:21 dcook Eeee...a student from my alma mater wants some help setting Koha up at a volunteer library :)
06:03 dcook And by ever...I mean in my short experience recently
06:03 dcook I think this training session has yielded the most bugs ever
05:44 dcook But fixing bugs...which is good...
05:44 dcook All the bugs..
05:30 cait gmcharlt++ for being an awesome rm :)
05:28 dcook Oh so the day of bugs...
05:22 dcook Good call on the renaming of system preferences...
05:22 dcook gmcharlt++
05:13 eythian (I assumed there was a public one I hadn't heard of :)
05:13 dcook No one tells me nothin' :p
05:13 wizzyrea i might have heard of that
05:13 eythian ah right :)
05:13 wizzyrea :)
05:13 wizzyrea dcook was
05:12 eythian wizzyrea: you're thinking of the schools one perhaps?
05:12 dcook That seems more plausible
05:12 dcook Ah, that's a lot slower than I originally was led to believe
05:11 wizzyrea well over like 3 years
05:11 * wizzyrea too
05:11 dcook I'm actually really interested to hear how that goes...
05:10 dcook Well, in NSW, the public library system wanted to put 2,000+ libraries up rather quickly
05:10 wizzyrea from not-koha to koha
05:10 dcook O_O
05:10 wizzyrea a 42 library consortium in like 3 days
05:10 wizzyrea yea, that was pretty epic
05:09 dcook But yay ByWater!
05:09 dcook It sounds...sad
05:09 dcook Yep, lol
05:09 wizzyrea :P
05:09 wizzyrea which means we really need to know the problem that he's trying to solve
05:08 wizzyrea that probably means their ztarget changed
05:08 wizzyrea so
05:08 wizzyrea big country
05:08 wizzyrea they were absorbed
05:08 wizzyrea yep
05:08 dcook "In 2013 the Big Country Library System and the Big Country Library System combined to form Texas Library Consortium Catalog or TLCcat. The consortium operates through a partnership between the Texas State Library and Archives Commission and e-Libris Technologies."
05:08 dcook Is that what you were linking to?
05:08 dcook http://www.librarytechnology.org/lwc-displaylibrary.pl?RC=12102
05:07 wizzyrea ^ this just happened
05:07 wizzyrea http://bywatersolutions.com/2013/04/05/tlc-koha-support/
05:07 dcook Yeah, I noticed the click through took you to koha.org, but that Bywater seems to support some of the former libraries?
05:06 wizzyrea that, peeps, is a library consortium - TLC
05:06 wizzyrea lookit that list of libraries
05:05 wizzyrea http://anspl.tlccat.bywatersolutions.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=fish&limit=branch%3AANSPL
05:04 wizzyrea clicking through to their online catalogue sends you to koha.org
05:04 wizzyrea that is interesting
05:03 wizzyrea http://www.librarytechnology.org/diglib-fulldisplay.pl?SID=20130612290649414&code=lwc&RC=24240&Row=3
05:03 eythian It apparently last responded with a blank page in May.
05:02 wizzyrea I think it has gone away
05:01 dcook Although that error message was still weird..
05:01 dcook My curiosity is satisfied for now.
05:00 dcook Someone should do a study of Google research speeds
05:00 wizzyrea which isn't thaaaaat long
05:00 dcook That's the one I'm looking at now
05:00 wizzyrea so a year old
05:00 wizzyrea for the tsl.state.tx.us site listing for bcls
05:00 wizzyrea This page last modified on June 25, 2012.
04:59 dcook Or maybe these are all just really out of date websites
04:59 dcook But just as a loose affiliation
04:59 dcook I think "Big Country Library System" might still exist in name..
04:58 dcook Which is a shame since it's a beautiful system in many ways (although not so much in others)
04:58 dcook There was some talk in Vancouver
04:58 wizzyrea yea, and ohio
04:58 dcook Didn't California have huge cuts too a while ago?
04:57 dcook Mmm, good call
04:57 wizzyrea ask her ;)
04:57 wizzyrea druthb
04:57 wizzyrea you know who would know
04:57 wizzyrea they could have been a victim
04:57 wizzyrea texas had some pretty massive library cuts
04:57 dcook http://nottypical.org/downloads/FY2013/Overview-NTLPeReaderLabsProject.pdf refers to libraries "formerly" served by them as well
04:57 dcook Yeah, I saw that
04:57 dcook I think so too
04:57 wizzyrea www.bclstx.org -> not responding
04:56 wizzyrea yea I think they have gone away
04:56 dcook My curiosity is insatiable :S
04:55 dcook [off] Wow...I'd heard of PDFs in place of HTML web pages, but really? http://www.wtc.edu/SACS/documents/BigCountryLibrarySystems.pdf
04:54 wahanui the fine folks at Northeast Kansas Library System
04:54 wizzyrea NEKLS?
04:54 wizzyrea NEKLS is <reply> the fine folks at Northeast Kansas Library System
04:53 wahanui wizzyrea: I forgot nekls
04:53 wizzyrea forget nekls
04:53 wahanui i think NEKLS is North East Kansas Library Service
04:53 dcook NEKLS?
04:53 wizzyrea now that I think about it
04:53 dcook [off] I saw the release but that's the last thing for a while
04:53 wizzyrea also, it may have been disbanded
04:53 wizzyrea looks like it's a NEKLS type
04:52 wizzyrea [off] http://liswire.com/node/199 < the target's press release
04:52 dcook I think maybe it amalgamated with another..
04:51 dcook It's a weird situation. I can't even find that actual library system or Koha instance
04:51 dcook No worries
04:51 dcook lol
04:51 wizzyrea he's afk, but I will tell him to check :)
04:51 dcook Yeah, I was just thinking that..
04:51 wizzyrea def @later him
04:49 dcook trea: Just thinking...if it used to work for you...maybe it's an issue on their end (or the information you have available)? It looks like they're using Metaproxy rather than Zebra as their z39.50 server...
04:33 dcook I think that would present earlier though..
04:33 dcook Unless maybe it's an authentication issue?
04:32 dcook I'm surprised that using the db "bcls_koha" gives an error with '' rather than 'bcls_koha'
04:31 * dcook is just curious.
04:31 wizzyrea probably use it as a target from another koha, if I had to guess
04:31 dcook Sorry. I know you ran out of time.
04:30 wahanui "What are you trying to do?" or "What is the goal?"
04:30 dcook first question?
04:30 trea it's a remote target, that we don't admin
04:30 trea if i had that level of access, but alas
04:29 dcook np. Check their koha-conf.xml next time.
04:29 trea sorry to query and run
04:29 dcook Definitely
04:29 trea probably so. and i'm out of time. will have to pick it up again later o/
04:29 dcook yep
04:29 wizzyrea it's gotta be something weird they did with the z db names
04:29 trea or latter
04:28 trea in this case, it's the former
04:28 wahanui Interesting is probably sometimes good and sometimes bad
04:28 dcook Interesting
04:28 pastebot "trea" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Z> base biblios Z> f laser Sen" (11 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/68
04:28 trea oh, is it?
04:28 wizzyrea that's a former they-who-shall-not-be-named customer eh?
04:27 dcook Can you try searching again?
04:27 trea right
04:27 dcook You did base biblios and that's what you got?
04:27 trea oh, that's set based on the current "base" command
04:26 dcook Looks good
04:26 wahanui interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
04:26 dcook Interesting...
04:25 pastebot "trea" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Z> list_all Connected to : tcp" (18 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/67
04:25 dcook trea: What do you get when you do "list_all"?
04:23 pastebot "wizzyrea" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Connecting...OK. Sent initrequ" (8 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/66
04:23 trea doing it the way listed above has always worked correctly for me in the past
04:22 pastebot "trea" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Z> f laser Sent searchRequest." (9 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/65
04:22 wizzyrea your command gives me
04:22 dcook No, it's probably the basing..
04:22 dcook It might relate to your query
04:22 dcook What's the rest of the error?
04:22 cait but i think lizis right, there might be something you have to do before you can actually start searching
04:22 dcook I've used yaz quite a bit..
04:21 cait hm trying to remember what I did last time
04:21 trea it's already based
04:21 trea yaz-client tcp:bcls.kohalibrary.com:210/bcls_koha
04:21 trea if i run
04:21 wizzyrea or base bcls_koha
04:21 dcook Not base <kohadatabasename>
04:21 wizzyrea base biblios
04:21 dcook It should be base biblios
04:21 wizzyrea wait you base using the dbname?
04:20 dcook Sorry, I should've read more
04:20 dcook Oh*
04:20 dcook Pj
04:20 dcook base biblios
04:20 dcook trea: yep
04:19 wizzyrea hum.
04:19 trea unless having a db with an underscore in the name causes a problem
04:19 trea just says unavail when doing the search
04:19 trea yep, i base it using the dbname, and it doesn't throw an error
04:19 wizzyrea ^ mailing list
04:19 wizzyrea Jared
04:19 wizzyrea Regards,
04:19 wizzyrea Don't forget to choose the database before running a query: base biblios
04:19 trea yeah it connects fine. it just doesn't return results
04:18 bag trea is that the right URL?
04:18 trea none specified
04:17 trea http://irspy.indexdata.com/full.html?id=Z39.50%3Abcls.kohalibrary.com%3A210%2Fbcls_koha
04:17 wizzyrea user/pass?
04:17 trea any idea why yaz-client would respond with "Database Unavailable" errors despite specifying the correct dbname from irspy?
04:15 dcook oleonard++
04:15 dcook Really glad though. Very useful work!
04:15 dcook The code certainly has changed a lot between 3.8 and master. That's for sure...
04:15 wizzyrea though i recall oleonard tying himself in knots working on virtualshelves.
04:15 dcook hehe
04:15 wizzyrea ^ sounds familiar
04:15 dcook I must be blind or...something
04:14 wizzyrea probably he's brilliant.
04:14 dcook It's...mind-boggling
04:14 cjh hahaha
04:14 dcook Maybe I should enlist your help to figure out this virtualshelves issue :p
04:14 dcook Must be those keen 20s eyes
04:14 cjh dcook: :) just spotted a missing </script> tag
04:13 mtompset does anyone remember where the multi-select branch limit is?
04:12 cait hi all :)
04:12 cjh hi cait :)
04:12 dcook Nice one, cjh. Whatever it is that you did :)
04:12 dcook hey ya cait
04:12 * cait waves
04:10 wizzyrea PFFFF
04:10 cjh luck :)
04:10 wizzyrea cjh++ I'm blind and stuff, and he is not
04:07 dcook mtj++
04:07 * dcook waves to Oak
04:06 * Oak waves
03:33 bag hello
03:32 cjh hey bag :)
03:32 mtompset Greetings, bag.
03:20 bag evening all
03:13 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10455 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , remove redundant 'biblioitems.marc' field
03:13 mtj bug 10455, there we go...
03:04 mtj (hopefully that will provoke someone to attempt to justify it's existence)
03:01 mtj i might log a bug to remove the bi.marc field, just as a start...
03:01 dcook Bbiab
03:01 dcook Anyway, lunch time
03:01 dcook mtj: Np. I think there are a few other instances of that scattered through Koha as well. If we do get rid of the serialization, we'll want to be pretty thorough about checking where it's still being used...
03:01 mtj hey dcook, thanks for the info ^^
03:00 dcook gmcharlt: Sounds good. I'll file a bug and post it to the koha-devel listserv
03:00 gmcharlt gotcha
03:00 dcook (I mean Stephen King)
03:00 dcook It's like he wasn't even trying
03:00 gmcharlt dcook: it's pretty ancient code, though; worth asking the UNIMARC users if it still servers a purpose
02:59 dcook I'll never understand the end of "Needful Things"
02:59 dcook gmcharlt: Too true.
02:59 dcook So perhaps damage control is best...:/
02:59 dcook But I'm sure "someone" uses it
02:59 dcook Personally, I rather remove the whole block and the system preferences...
02:59 gmcharlt I mean, just look at Stephen King
02:59 dcook gmcharlt: Agreed.
02:58 gmcharlt dcook: I don't know, some authors are *very* strange
02:58 dcook I don't know why one would want to "normalize" the author...
02:55 dcook And filing a bug to tell someone who knows unimarc to probably look at it
02:55 dcook I suppose wrapping it in a check "MarcFlavour" might be enough for now...
02:54 dcook I'm not even sure where to start with re-writing it. Since it's for UNIMARC, it looks completely alien
02:54 dcook hehe
02:53 wizzyrea "hissy fit" is a term that is not used often enough in relation to Koha
02:52 dcook Koha has a bit of a hissy fit..
02:52 dcook It deletes things and tries adding them before even checking that the variable has been set
02:52 dcook Even if you were a UNIMARC user...
02:51 dcook But if you do...yeesh
02:51 dcook As a MARC21 user, there's no reason to have them turned on
02:51 dcook The code controlled by "z3950NormalizeAuthor" and "z3950AuthorAuthFields"...
02:50 mtompset Yes there is, dcook. Sadly, there is.
02:49 dcook Man...there is some weird code in Koha...
02:48 mtompset I suppose gmcharlt's table with autoincrement for ID is good for that, but the problem is cardnumber isn't always numeric. :(
02:47 mtompset This is what locking does create. But since it isn't recommended on Inno DB's, that really isn't a good solution.
02:46 mtompset transactions don't create critical sections. Though, they do make things atomic.
02:46 mtompset transactions don't create critical sections. Though, the do make things atomic.
02:45 mtompset That's the phrase I was trying to remember... critical section.
02:37 dcook GetImportRecordMarc. I imagine it could be GetImportRecordMarcXML instead. I think the MARC module can create a MARC object from MARCXML and not just the serialization...
02:36 dcook sub MARCfindbreeding in addbiblio.pl
02:36 dcook mtj: Just found an instance of when usmarc is used over marcxml
01:57 dcook Today is the day of bugs...
01:45 dcook Because pages can equal undef but it doesn't come out as 33 or 34..
01:45 dcook But...that can't be quite right...
01:42 dcook And somehow...Template Toolkit is translating undef as 33 (or 34)...
01:42 dcook Hmm, so Koha is generating an itemloop where size = undef
01:06 mtompset And that would solve my problem. I'm going to give that a whirl shortly. Bug report title to change shortly. ;)
01:04 mtompset I do think a transaction patch in AddMembers would work.
01:01 mtompset But how will that prevent a second process from starting the same transaction? Does MySQL only run one transaction at a time?
01:00 mtompset so START TRANSACTION fixup_cardnumber AddMember COMMIT END TRANSACTION?
00:57 rangi thats what they are for
00:56 rangi if you want atomic, use transactions
00:54 mtompset then references to fixup_cardnumber could be removed.
00:53 mtompset Okay... so then really AddMember could be tweaked to add either the hash directly, or the hash plus a generated number in a single SQL statement, which should not need locking.
00:51 gmcharlt mtompset: sure -- following the example, one would just grab the results of "select nextval('abc');"
00:50 mtompset Can you do stored procedures with DBI, gmcharlt?
00:50 dcook When I run the SQL, my results are showing the size column as a primary key as well...no idea why that's happening...
00:50 dcook size
00:50 pastebot "dcook" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "virtual shelves null issue" (7 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/64
00:49 gmcharlt dcook: which column?
00:49 * dcook 's brain explodes
00:49 dcook jcamins: When I look on my dev system, it shows 34
00:48 jcamins dcook: e^0 would have been harder to figure out.
00:48 dcook But there does have to be a logic to it...
00:47 gmcharlt particular comment #8
00:47 gmcharlt mtompset: http://www.microshell.com/database/mysql/emulating-nextval-function-to-get-sequence-in-mysql/
00:47 dcook jcamins: I caught on eventually :p
00:47 jcamins mtompset: fixup_cardnumber is not okay if it doesn't work. I was suggesting a way to have something that works now.
00:47 jcamins dcook: that was nonsense, BTW. :P
00:47 dcook wth...
00:46 jcamins dcook: it's shelf e^-1. That's why.
00:46 dcook I just noticed it in 3.8
00:46 * dcook is checking out master atm
00:45 dcook Although I don't know why it would be happening in virtualshelves and nowhere else..
00:45 dcook jcamins: I figured there had to be some sort of logic to it :p
00:44 jcamins dcook: base e logic.
00:44 dcook gmcharlt: I know, right?
00:44 gmcharlt rather, weird, not weird?
00:44 gmcharlt dcook: '33'? weird? converting null to '', I would understand
00:44 mtompset that makes the locking tables a bad idea.
00:44 mtompset that makes the lockink tables a bad idea.
00:43 mtompset Okay, the "not recommended"
00:42 gmcharlt mtompset: it is not functional unless one assumes that there will never be simultaneous writes to the borrowers table; it doesn't matter how short the average lock period is
00:39 * dcook would love to know how Koha turning a null in Mysql into "33"...
00:37 mtompset Which, I do admit is ugly, but it is functional.
00:37 mtompset Locking tables makes it atomic.
00:37 mtompset fixup_cardnumber is okay, but it does no locking... and a second process could grab the same calculated number before AddMember is called.
00:33 mtompset Yes. That is the problem that I am seeing.
00:33 jcamins mtompset: the problem you are trying to deal with is generating cardnumbers automatically, right?
00:32 mtompset A hidden syspref? With row locking?
00:31 gmcharlt mtompset: table locks are *specifically* not recommend for innodb; see http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/table-locking.html; one possible alternative might be creating a table with an auto_increment key whose sole purpose is to emulatie a sequence
00:31 mtompset automatic card number generator? What function are you thinking of? Or is this something you are suggesting I build?
00:30 jcamins Something like SAML domain + ID, or whatever SAML exposes.
00:28 jcamins If you're still working on SAML, why don't you just not use the built in automatic card number generator, which has always been not-best-practice?
00:26 dcook O_o
00:25 mtompset I can conceptually agree to that. The problem is that I want the assurance of something that works now.
00:24 gmcharlt which is something that IMO calls for a solution that just about anything other than diong table locks
00:23 mtompset if you don't then the fixup_cardnumber doesn't generate a unique number in some cases.
00:23 gmcharlt innodb has row-level locks
00:23 mtompset It generates an error log entry otherwise.
00:23 gmcharlt we shouldn't need to lock *anything*
00:22 jcamins Do you need to lock action_logs?
00:22 mtompset I put in a 90 second lock to see how it affected other accesses.
00:22 mtompset But the time is under a second for the lock, so I don't see a problem.
00:21 mtompset The others prevent silent errors in the error log file.
00:21 pastebot "mtompset" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "AddMember_Opac testing" (7 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/63
00:20 dcook Oh, Koha. Why you so crazy...
00:19 mtompset Ah... good point... forgot about the random string mess.
00:17 gmcharlt also, upon reading scrollback, are you proposing to add code to actually lock the borrowers table?
00:10 gmcharlt er, and thereby remove the ability for patron imports to set patron passwords?
00:08 mtompset Because I'm about to submit a locking patch for AddMember_Opac, which would then remove the FIXME.
00:08 mtompset Because I'm thinking of taking a line from tools/import_borrowers.pl and changing the logic to use AddMember_Opac if the cardnumber is not set and AddMember if it is set, and then just use if ($borrowernumber) instead of if ($borrowernumber = AddMember(%borrower)) { ... }
00:05 gmcharlt definitely the sort of contruct that if you used it (and please don't) woudl require a comment saying "yes, I really mean it that way"
00:04 jcamins Because it will not be understood.
00:04 jcamins But it is wrong.
00:04 jcamins It means the same thing, yes.
00:02 mtompset I'd like to confirm... if ($a=$b) { ... } is the same as $a=$b; if ($a) { ... } correct?