Time  Nick          Message
00:00 trea          that's a safe bet.
00:00 eythian       http://www.blorpy.com/post/51580458274/tuesday-ten-weird-childrens-toys-a-collection-of <-- wizzyrea
00:00 mtj           haaay, i just discovered vim's :retab thingy - very handy for Koha
00:01 jcamins       http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/codetables/45.html
00:01 wizzyrea      http://www.loc.gov/marc/specifications/speccharmarc8.html
00:02 wizzyrea      ok #2 - it's a jiggly bouncy ball that kids just adore.
00:02 wizzyrea      that's not a weird toy.
00:03 cjh           man #4 is awesome!
00:10 trea          "shoots fragmentation bomb"
00:10 trea          something every child needs
00:14 * wizzyrea    shudders
00:15 * cjh         knows what mini-trea is getting for xmas....
00:20 mtj           how do people feel about having a general tab/whitespace tidy-up, early in this release cycle?
00:21 eythian       mtj: it screws with history if you're not careful
00:22 mtj           …or at least identifing which are the worst files, for crufty whitespace
00:24 mtj           eythian, i didnt know that specifically - tho i guessed it would introduce some merge problems with older patches
00:24 eythian       it may also do that.
00:27 mtj           i'm starting to see new patches failing QA, that have cut/pasted existing glitchy lines :/
00:28 jcamins       Are you sure that's not a good thing?
00:28 eythian       I think it is a good thing
00:28 eythian       you should clean up the stuff you're working on, at the very least.
00:28 mtj           the failing is a great thing!
00:29 mtj           …the manually tidying up the failing lines is a tedious pain
00:29 eythian       you select the stuff you modified and run it through perltidy
00:29 rangi         many many many more patches will fail if you do a mass change
00:30 rangi         and yep, its easy with vim
00:30 rangi         select a bit and perltidy it
00:30 jcamins       F6 FTW!
00:31 eythian       I have it on the same button :)
00:34 mtj           yeah, i do the same
00:35 rangi         hmm
00:35 rangi         http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8868#c7
00:35 huginn`       04Bug 8868: enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Failed QA , ILS-DI: CancelHold needs to take a reserve_id
00:35 rangi         too harsh?
00:37 jcamins       eems fair.
00:37 jcamins       *Seems
00:37 rangi         cool
00:39 mtj           haay ftw, i have global/selectable whitespace stripper function() in vim
00:40 mtj           ...which works well for templates files
00:40 mtj           EOL whitespace stripper, and tab replacer
00:41 mtj           ^^ my other pet-peeve :)
00:45 rangi         mine is not enough sign offs :)
00:45 * rangi       cracks the whip
00:45 rangi         more work, less talk!! :-)
00:46 mtj           yes sir!
00:50 * dcook       giggles
00:50 dcook         Well, I'm not sure I'm actually capable of giggling, but...the sentiment is there nonetheless
00:51 dcook         papa++
00:52 papa          eh, what have I done now?
00:52 rangi         lots of signoffs
00:52 papa          ah that :)
00:52 dcook         In 5 days :)
00:52 papa          you mean in 2
00:53 dcook         Probably
00:53 dcook         Whoa...
00:53 papa          but I was cheating a bit, I picked the easy ones
00:53 dcook         I like the idea of marcflavour being called MarcFormat instead, but...that's a lot of testing...
00:53 dcook         Fair enough
00:54 dcook         I barely have time for the easy ones at the moment :S
00:54 papa          Like when it had MARC in it, i'd skip immediately :)
00:54 * dcook       looks balefully at the project that never seems to end...
00:54 dcook         hehe
00:55 dcook         To be honest, I'm half-tempted to install a UNIMARC system just to sign off some of those patches
00:56 jcamins       I don't think I like MarcFormat.
00:56 dcook         Oh...just noticed jcamins's offline circ patch..
00:56 dcook         No?
00:56 wahanui       http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/3/2933/collapsing.gif
00:57 jcamins       Technically UNIMARC has two formats, one of which is the same as the MARC21 format.
00:57 dcook         O_o
00:57 jcamins       The other one being for authorities, and people who are drunk.
00:57 dcook         o_O
00:58 rangi         :)\
00:58 rangi         a lot of library standards feel like they were designed when people were drunk
00:58 eythian       your chin is falling off, rangi
00:58 rangi         too much drink eythian
00:59 eythian       designing library standards, are you?
01:08 jcamins       lol
01:12 wizzyrea      unimarc smells of wine.
01:12 rangi         i find unimarc more sane than marc21 actually
01:13 rangi         but then again, i find a pile of mud more sane than marc21
01:14 eythian       wahanui: library patrons is <reply>patrons can be found here: http://notalwaysright.com/tag/library
01:14 wahanui       OK, eythian.
01:15 dcook         *facepalm*
01:16 dcook         eythian: I think my happiness points just dropped :(
01:16 dcook         Evil humans...
01:16 eythian       wahanui: facepalm is <reply>http://buikitty.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/20120202-094434.jpg
01:16 wahanui       OK, eythian.
01:17 dcook         They might be back up now ^_^
01:17 dcook         Also, you do have a link for everything
01:17 * dcook       almost wonders if there is a link for that...
01:17 eythian       heh
01:22 rangi         jcamins: what do you think of bug 9728
01:22 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9728 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Signed Off , XISBN use simple search instead of SQL
01:22 rangi         as a general idea (not the code quality or anything)
01:32 jcamins       rangi: I think it's a good idea generally.
01:33 rangi         cool
01:33 rangi         ill qa it then :)
01:54 jcamins       I have to say the Schwartzian transform may be the most cryptic pieces of code I've ever seen.
01:54 jcamins       I'm confused by the => bits in it.
01:55 eythian       there are no => bits in it
01:56 pastebot      "jcamins" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Schwartzian transform" (13 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/49
01:56 jcamins       Really?
01:56 wahanui       Really is off now
01:56 jcamins       ^^ that's the version I'm looking at.
01:58 eythian       if it turned more of the parts into blocks, the => could go away
01:58 eythian       (keeping in mind that => eq ,
01:58 eythian       )
02:00 jcamins       Oh, so basically => is like an implied } in this case?
02:01 eythian       no, it's just a comma
02:01 jcamins       Right, but I could convert those into maps using {} and no =>?
02:02 eythian       it's like map chr, @list is the same as map chr => @list
02:02 eythian       well, you'd be converting the expression into a block
02:02 eythian       so that map doesn't require the comma
02:03 jcamins       Okay, now I understand.
02:03 cjh           oh wow schwartzian in the wild
02:04 jcamins       I'm not sure it's actually necessary in this instance.
02:04 jcamins       Which is good, because I'm not convinced it's not gratuitous obfuscation.
02:07 jcamins       I'm all for efficient algorithms, but how often are you going to deduplicate an authority file?
02:07 rangi         exactly
02:08 rangi         theres a whole thing about premature optimisation
02:08 rangi         http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PrematureOptimization
02:08 jcamins       Now I just need to find a readable way to write this.
02:08 eythian       http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16927024/perl-5-20-and-the-fate-of-smartmatch-and-given-when
02:08 rangi         eythian has the book on his shelf :)
02:09 jcamins       What's Smartmatch?
02:10 cjh           a relatively new perl operator ~~
02:10 eythian       it's comparison using ~~
02:10 eythian       it's only about 10 years old or so
02:10 cjh           heh
02:11 jcamins       Ah.
02:11 jcamins       ~~
02:11 jcamins       I've seen that a few times.
02:12 jcamins       Actually, I just figured out my issue with the Schwartzian transform.
02:12 jcamins       It's a good algorithm to use for this, but it doesn't need to be all on one line.
02:12 jcamins       Temporary variables are okay.
02:12 eythian       yeah
02:13 eythian       only three uses of ~~ in koha
02:15 eythian       http://youtu.be/hFo7eJR2cvc
02:16 cjh           the 3rd movie \o/
02:29 jcamins       Okay, question... if I am going to call one of two routines repeatedly, is it bad for me to assign a reference to that routine to a variable and use $GetRecord->($recordid)?
02:30 jcamins       $authorities ? GetAuthority($recordid) : GetBiblio($recordid) offends me, as does expanding that into a proper if.
02:32 eythian       I think it's fine to do that
02:32 jcamins       Thanks.
02:33 wizzyrea      http://io9.com/william-shatner-reads-his-version-of-where-the-wild-thi-511210553
02:33 eythian       wahanui: captain cook is climbing a mountain
02:33 wahanui       OK, eythian.
02:33 eythian       oh that's totally wrong
02:34 wizzyrea      lol
02:34 eythian       wahanui: forget captain cook
02:34 wahanui       eythian: I forgot captain cook
02:34 wizzyrea      captain kirk is climbing a mountain
02:34 wahanui       Why is he climbing a mountain?
02:34 eythian       much more like it
02:34 cjh           lol
02:34 eythian       post-curry brain
02:35 dcook         Mmm curry wednesday
02:36 dcook         I might have to rustle myself up some curry...
02:37 jcamins       wtf?
02:37 jcamins       The ellipsis statement?
02:37 jcamins       That's...
02:37 jcamins       weird.
02:39 eythian       I can see the use though
02:40 cjh           oh wow I have never seen that, really neat.
02:41 jcamins       Okay, sanity check: scalar @weights = 5 if @weights = ( 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 )?
02:41 eythian       yeah
02:42 jcamins       Thanks.
02:44 jcamins       ...
02:44 jcamins       The Schwartzian transform has melted my brain.
02:45 jcamins       I've forgotten how to do a for loop.
02:45 eythian       map { something } @list; of course
02:49 jcamins       Okay, this is confusing.
02:50 jcamins       http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=C4/AuthoritiesMarc.pm;h=9ea3b2dbb9c4621406df0ed094e5b8fb64ab5651;hb=HEAD#l1384
02:50 jcamins       If I pass undef as the second and fourth arguments, shouldn't that return without doing anything?
02:51 jcamins       Or, rather, die completely.
02:51 jcamins       Since undef->fields() is undefined.
02:51 eythian       I'd expect it to throw a warn
02:51 eythian       I don't think it'd return, because the ==0 check will end up as if undef==0 which is false
02:52 jcamins       But undef->fields() won't cause a Perl error?
02:52 * jcamins     will find out.
02:53 jcamins       Can't call method "fields" on an undefined value at -e line 1.
02:53 eythian       I don't think it'd cause it to die
02:53 eythian       yeah, but that's probably just a warn
02:53 jcamins       Hm.
02:53 eythian       I might be wrong though
02:53 eythian       not totally sure
02:54 jcamins       No, I think you're right.
02:54 jcamins       I mean, I think you should be wrong, but I think empirically I have evidence that you are rightlz
02:55 cjh           perl -e "undef->foo(); print 'made it';" # doesnt print made it
02:57 jcamins       Is true greater than false in Perl?
02:57 * jcamins     will assign numeric values.
02:57 jcamins       Probably safer that way.
02:59 eythian       true is non-zero, non-empty
03:00 jcamins       What I'm not sure of is whether ('a' eq 'a') > ('a' eq 'b')
03:00 cjh           perl -e "print 'yeap' if ((1==1)>(1==0))"
03:00 eythian       that'd be true
03:00 eythian       because the first would be '1', the second '0'
03:01 cjh           perl -e "print 'OH GOD' if ((1==1)<(1==0))"
03:01 eythian       wahanui: the singularity is http://i.imgur.com/RMKh9xx.jpg
03:01 wahanui       OK, eythian.
03:02 cjh           that actually exists :o http://www.olympus-global.com/en/news/2013a/nr130130sz16e.jsp
03:04 eythian       actually, my camera has pet mode in it too I think. But it's mostly to make the photo look nicer I expect.
03:04 eythian       It does also have a "take a photo when everyone is smiling" function.
03:05 wizzyrea      ...cameras do that?
03:05 wizzyrea      i haven't had a proper camera in a while :P
03:06 cjh           wb.
03:06 eythian       I think it even has a smile-graph, so you can wait for it to reach a particular rictus and take the photo then
03:06 eythian       mostly I just leave it on the "be pretty smart and do what I want" mode.
03:31 jcamins       Cool. New and spectacularly revised deduper works.
03:32 jcamins       And it is, if I may say, a super deduper.
03:32 jcamins       :D
03:32 * wizzyrea    giggles
03:32 wizzyrea      ok that was funny
03:32 mtj           super dooper deduper?
03:32 wizzyrea      and  not just because I've been up since 2am
03:32 jcamins       I know, right?
03:32 jcamins       lol
03:32 jcamins       That was an actual good joke from me.
03:33 wizzyrea      indeed!
03:33 * jcamins     checks to see if armaggedon is upon us.
03:33 wizzyrea      @quote add <jcamins> Cool. New and spectacularly revised deduper works. And it is, if I may say, a super deduper.
03:33 huginn`       wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.  Quote #256 added.
03:33 wizzyrea      oh yeahhhhh
03:33 jcamins       What's our stance on POD?
03:34 wizzyrea      we like it?
03:34 jcamins       Do we really put it at the end because it's "faster"?
03:34 wizzyrea      oh. that. pass.
03:34 eythian       that doesn't actually make sense to me
03:34 jcamins       I would like to put my POD inline because then it is easy to understand what the POD is talking about.
03:34 jcamins       (IMO)
03:34 jcamins       For all my personal projects, that's the way I do it.
03:35 eythian       perl has to scan the whole file anyway, in case you have more stuff after the POD at the end
03:35 eythian       I guess unless you finish with __END__
03:35 eythian       or whatever it is
03:35 eythian       but yeah, inline is better I think
04:00 gmcharlt      agreed, inline
04:04 jcamins       Good, because that's what I did.
04:14 jcamins       And now that I have a nifty new record deduplicator, I am getting some sleep.
04:14 jcamins       Good night, #koha.
04:15 dcook         night, jcamins
04:15 eythian       later
04:18 dcook         mtj++
04:18 dcook         Thanks for rebasing that 2nd patch for 10096
04:19 * dcook       goes off to grab a late lunch...
04:36 eythian       https://plus.google.com/+YonatanZunger/posts/EfmdR6VWvRM <-- cjh
04:37 cjh           eythian: I quite like the title http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2013/05/barns-are-painted-red-because-of-the-physics-of-dying-stars/
04:40 cjh           TIL: organic tyrian purple pigment can be made from the snot of the Murex snail
04:46 eythian       and that's why toga praetextae were worn by people of rank.
04:47 eythian       Did you skip out of your classical education, huh?
05:24 eythian       @wunder nzwn
05:24 huginn`       eythian: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 9.0°C (5:00 PM NZST on June 05, 2013). Conditions: Light Drizzle. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Rising).
05:25 eythian       It seems to be missing the 50-70kph wind
06:37 reiveune      hello
06:37 wahanui       hi, reiveune
06:45 christophe_c  hello #koha
06:56 drojf         good morning #koha
06:56 drojf         @wunder berlin, germany
06:56 huginn`       drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 15.5°C (8:42 AM CEST on June 05, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady).
07:13 Joubu         hello #koha
07:13 kf            hi Joubu
07:13 kf            :)
07:13 kf            and hi #koha!
07:14 gaetan_B      hello
07:16 kf            hi gaetan_B
07:17 gaetan_B      hey kf :) alles klar ?
07:17 kf            viel zu tun, aber ja ;)
08:50 samueld       hi everybody
08:55 rangi         is fridolyn catching up on mail :)
08:57 kf            looks like it :)
08:57 kf            hi samueld
08:57 rangi         hi samueld
08:57 samueld       hi kf & rangi
12:19 oleonard      Hi #koha
12:28 oleonard      Hi kf
12:29 kf            hi oleonard
12:56 tomascohen    mornin #koha
13:05 Joubu         bz is down ?
13:05 oleonard      No for me Joubu
13:06 Joubu         oleonard: ok ta
13:06 Joubu         oleonard: ok thanks, weird!
13:09 Joubu         back! :)
13:09 tcohen        hi Joubu
13:10 Joubu         hi tcohen
13:12 oleonard      Why does the course reserves "add item" process ask if you want to change the item type, collection code, etc?
13:12 oleonard      Libraries temporarily or permanently change those details when adding them to course reserves?
13:13 jcamins       Yes.
13:13 jcamins       You'd have course reserves stored in a different part of the library with different loan rules.
13:13 tcohen        it makes sense oleonard, as item type is the means to change the circ rules for it
13:14 oleonard      All new to me, thanks
13:15 oleonard      Does it automatically revert the changes?
13:15 oleonard      ...when an item is removed?
13:15 kf            oleonard: I think the use case here would be to mark those items temporarily for reference or only allow short loans
13:15 kf            so all students of a course get a hcance to do their homework with that important book
13:16 jcamins       oleonard: I'd think that the entire point of the course reserves module would be  that it would be automatically reset, but... I don't actually know.
13:16 kf            tcohen: around?
13:17 kf            oleonard: i hope it does, like jcamins said but i haven't tested it yet :(
13:18 tcohen        here
13:18 kf            @later tell tcohen - could you take a look at bug 9824? The follow ups fix the labels a bit and woudl be nice to have in 3.12
13:18 huginn`       kf: The operation succeeded.
13:18 kf            oh sory :)
13:19 tcohen        hi kf
13:24 nengard       does Koha not have a deleted authorities table?
13:24 nengard       I'm not seeing one
13:25 oleonard      How dare you consider deleting an authority nengard!
13:25 nengard       unused authorities goofy boy :)
13:25 nengard       we have deleted bibs and deleted items
13:25 nengard       how dare you delete those!!
13:25 nengard       :)
13:26 jcamins       nengard: it does not, no.
13:27 kf            sounds like not a bad idea to me
13:27 nengard       bug 10417
13:27 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10417 new feature, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , keep deleted authorities
13:27 nengard       :)
13:27 kf            10417 already... wow
13:28 jcamins       Now if only someone were interested in sponsoring that sort of development, eh?
13:28 oleonard      The same deep pockets who are sponsoring the LTS version?
13:29 jcamins       oleonard++ # comedy at its best
13:29 oleonard      jcamins and kf: removing a changed item from a course reverts the changes you make when adding it
13:29 kf            yay :)
13:29 jcamins       Hooray!
13:29 kf            thx for testing oleonard :)
13:39 kf            oleonard++
13:39 kf            for his usual awesomeness
14:03 druthb        oleonard++
14:05 oleonard      Thanks druthb :)
14:24 huginn`       New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8584: cleanup_database.pl : Add a DAYS parameter for email purges. <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=68b8b9d7a8e9e52d3ce59b25248df03dd6ec8224> / Bug 7892: Open link to imported record in new tab <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=72157d66886e21354aa754f75530bbec1f11b9e5> / Bug 10015 - UniqueItemFields could have link to database documentation <http://git.koha
14:26 gmcharlt      @quote random
14:26 huginn`       gmcharlt: Quote #156: "druthb: I would feed wahanui a botsnack of windows 8 engineers, but they're full of fluff and not very filling. trea: like marshmallow peeps, with clip on ties." (added by wizzyrea at 02:09 PM, September 22, 2011)
14:26 * druthb      chuckles
14:34 huginn`       New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 766: remove CGI::scrolling_list from request.pl <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=7668e19c9593da570cffb5cd4640fe175d739328> / Bug 10249: Fix untranslatable strings in OPAC detail page <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=787a480626be474afa65737ae37a6c07cad0b1c7>
15:12 mtompset      Greetings, #koha.
15:12 druthb        Hi, mtompset!
15:12 mtompset      Greetings, druthb.
15:12 mtompset      I'm still fighting the "How do sessions work?" problem in Koha.
15:13 mtompset      Because just when I think I have a piece of code that should limp into working and should never see the light of day... it doesn't set the session up like I expect. :(
15:16 tcohen        hi mtompset
15:16 mtompset      Greetings, tcohen.
15:17 jcamins       mtompset: ah, yep. I see your problem. It's the fourth word in your question.
15:18 mtompset      Are you stating that sessions is the wrong word, or that you agree sessions are a big pain?
15:18 jcamins       No, I'm saying that "work" is overly strong. :P
15:18 mtompset      fine, function? :P
15:19 pianohacker   they're balanced on the precipice of "too crappy to like, not crappy enough to fix"
15:21 mtompset      All I want is to get a bunch of values pushed into the DB nicely.
15:22 mtompset      So that the code doesn't think the session is timedout and goes into an infinite loop of click-me to loop bliss.
15:23 * druthb      drags around the conference center One More Day
15:26 huginn`       New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8600: (followup) remove debug logging statement <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=73535cb1120ddb1c1c0fb8f1568cc4da51903a25> / Bug 8600: can now remove search input fields in OPAC advanced search form <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=0d6bd380ba644ce2cf36a40edbfa5e231e1e19ab>
15:28 mtompset      session->flush!
15:28 mtompset      I think that might be it.
15:28 mtompset      DUH!
15:30 mtompset      Nope. :(
15:46 huginn`       New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 9549: Show local cover images in the OPAC shelf browser <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=bebff403f235c0694ce0faf180e30e5e99d00032>
16:09 oleonard      "universal web share icon?" Is that really a thing? http://www.flickr.com/photos/trufflemedia/3137787741/
16:10 * oleonard    wonders how recognizable that really is
16:10 jcamins       Never seen it before.
16:10 jcamins       Apparently it's the logo of ShareThis(R).
16:11 * pianohacker discounts less and less every day that the original authors of the admin interface were on crack
16:11 rhcl          looks like freenode just died
16:12 rhcl          and now it's back
16:12 jcamins       rhcl: they've been netsplitting like crazy.
16:12 rhcl          yea, saw that yesterday, and they sent out a tech msg too
16:12 gmcharlt      I get the impression they've been subject to an unusually high number of DOS attacks recently
16:12 rhcl          it's unusual to see the actual server die, however
16:12 * oleonard    would prefer that the "share" button have a nice style: http://screencast.com/t/0LubG8LSbsYN
16:13 * oleonard    is testing Bug 9032
16:13 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9032 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Needs Signoff , Share a list (part 1: send the invitation)
16:13 gmcharlt      oleonard: I've seen it before ... but universal?  not sure about that
16:15 * gmcharlt    doesn't have any suggestions for a more universal option, though
16:15 gmcharlt      nor any objections to using that icon
16:16 oleonard      Hm, the Tango Desktop Project seems to be dead
16:25 gaetan_B      bye
16:30 tcohen        on android everything related to the action of "sharing" has that icon
16:31 jcamins       tcohen: really? Huh.
16:31 jcamins       I have an android phone and never noticed it.
16:31 * jcamins     goes looking for the phone.
16:32 tcohen        or an app from play, or something from flipboard
16:33 reiveune      bye
17:05 tcohen        gmcharlt: I think you found a previous bug, as I copied what was already done in Auth.pm (bug 9735)
17:05 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9735 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Failed QA , Choose language using URL parameters in any page
17:05 gmcharlt      tcohen: I don't think it's a bug, actually, but only by accident
17:06 gmcharlt      i.e., CGI.pm will accept either a scalar (for a single cookie) or a flat arrayref
17:06 tcohen        see Auth.pm:275
17:07 gmcharlt      right, but that's the *only* spot that does it
17:07 gmcharlt      at least in C4::aUTH
17:09 gmcharlt      to clarify -- I do think that when the OPAC search history patch was written, it should have explicitly iniitaliized an array(ref) to keep the list of cookies
17:09 tcohen        I should push it then
17:10 gmcharlt      rather than doing the $cookie = [$cookie, $newcookie] form
17:10 gmcharlt      tcohen: push what?
17:10 tcohen        the new languagecookie into the cookie array
17:10 gmcharlt      ah, right
17:10 gmcharlt      (although at that point in the code, $cookie could either be a scalar *or* a listref)
17:11 gmcharlt      so you'd either have to test for both cases, or do a bit of cleanup
17:17 tcohen        gmcharlt: the cookie method returns an arrayref?
17:17 tcohen        listref
17:18 gmcharlt      tcohen: $cgi->cookie('foo') just returns a scalar
17:21 jcamins       tcohen: Esta tierra es mia... does that refer to the planet or a garden (for example)?
17:21 tcohen        maybe both, I suggest the second
17:22 jcamins       Thanks.
17:22 tcohen        what are u reading jcamins ?
17:22 jcamins       In English the second made sense, but I wanted to check that it would in Spanish too. :)
17:22 jcamins       Film posters!
17:23 jcamins       This is a Russian poster for an Argentinian film.
17:23 gmcharlt      jcamins: so we don't have to recognize you as the Planetary Emporer just yet? ;)
17:23 jcamins       gmcharlt: hmmm... I guess not yet.
17:23 tcohen        "land"
17:24 tcohen        I'd translate as 'land'
17:25 rgoldman      are there 3rd party consultants who'll import athena records to a new koha instance - cataloged somewhere?
17:25 Brooke        0/
17:25 jcamins       support?
17:25 wahanui       support is found at http://koha-community.org/support/
17:25 jcamins       support vendors?
17:26 jcamins       paid support?
17:26 wahanui       please see http://koha-community.org/support/paid-support/ for a list of paid Koha support vendors.
17:26 rgoldman      ty
17:26 jcamins       ^^ there is an incomplete list of Koha support vendors.
17:26 Brooke        Life support?
17:26 wahanui       Life support is, like, See Brooke for AED/CPR FPR
17:26 gmcharlt      heh
17:27 rgoldman      ok. any warning about using debian install and repo for ubuntu lts?
17:27 jcamins       rgoldman: just that you should absolutely be using packages and not the tgz.
17:28 jcamins       They'll work absolutely fine.
17:28 rgoldman      TY jcamins. all set then.
17:29 jcamins       Oh, there's a meeting in a half hour?
17:30 oleonard      Another unreminded meeting.
17:30 drojf         you got half an hour to send a reminder :P
17:34 oleonard      What was the big deal we didn't vote on last time because no one was around?
17:34 gmcharlt      version numbers?
17:35 jcamins       Yeah.
17:35 tweetbot      [off] twitter: @gmcharlt: "General Koha IRC meeting is starting in just under half an hour. http://t.co/HUiEu7CQmg #KohaILS"
17:35 jcamins       And please note I am not presenting the proposal.
17:35 jcamins       I put it on the stupid agenda because people seemed to think it mattered at all.
17:35 jcamins       (the agenda was not stupid prior to its addition, of course)
17:36 * oleonard    can tell jcamins is excited about the whole idea
17:36 jcamins       lol
17:36 * gmcharlt    thinks that folks who are actively advocating for a position, or for discussion or votes, should be the ones to put things on the agenda
17:36 jcamins       Right.
17:36 tcohen        what's the meeting about?
17:36 gmcharlt      if a given idea doesn't have a champion who is invested enough to at least do that, perhaps it doesn't belong
17:36 jcamins       gmcharlt: if I hadn't been RM, I would've just unsubscribed from koha-devel.
17:37 jcamins       Since I was RM, I said "I'll put it on the agenda, now stop bothering me."
17:37 gmcharlt      tcohen: just a general one
17:37 gmcharlt      agenda at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_5_June_2013
17:38 tcohen        we should ask badPaul to make the proposal
17:38 jcamins       His time is too valuable.
17:39 tcohen        the only thing I care and no other cares is the debian packages naming
17:39 tcohen        :-P
17:41 tcohen        gmcharlt: would CGI.pm flaten an listref containing only one cookie? (looking for the simplest way of handling this)
17:42 gmcharlt      tcohen: yes, that woudl work as far as CGI.pm is concerned
17:42 gmcharlt      one caveat: there is likely some random code scattered throughout that tries to do stuff with the $cookie returned by get_template_and_user
17:43 gmcharlt      hmm
17:43 tcohen        I'll add a check and return the scalar then
17:44 tcohen        that's source for other troubles, right?
17:45 gmcharlt      potentially, yes
17:46 * tcohen      meant already present potential problems
17:47 gmcharlt      tcohen: yeah, I have a nasty feeling that I've opened up a mare's nest underneath you
17:47 gmcharlt      sorry about  that
17:48 * Brooke      gets the horsemeat grinder out...
17:48 tcohen        I'll provide a followup for this specific bug, and do some research through the code
17:49 gmcharlt      great
17:49 tcohen        this looks ugly, right?: ref($cookie) eq 'ARRAY'
17:49 jcamins       Usually one doesn't use parentheses with ref.
17:50 gmcharlt      other than the parentheses, while it may be ugly, it's canonical ugliness ;)
17:51 * Brooke      is non canonically appealing.
17:51 * mtompset    continues to bash his brains against the sessionID cookie authentication madness he is tinkering with.
17:52 pianohacker   'sub isarrayref { eval { @{ shift } }; return $@ }'
17:52 gmcharlt      heh
17:53 mtompset      Umm... why that ugly function... isn't there a ref($shift) eq 'ARRAY' type check?
17:53 jcamins       lol
17:53 pianohacker   curses, !$@
17:53 pianohacker   mtompset: yes, absolutely
17:53 pianohacker   this gets you more perl hacker points though
17:53 jcamins       pianohacker++ # "curses, !$@" may be the greatest line ever
17:53 tcohen        pianohacker++
17:54 gmcharlt      Tim Toady -- the game whereby you can faintly disturb any YAPH on a whim
17:54 pianohacker   hehe
17:55 pianohacker   when your code looks like Popeye dialog, you're having a Perl kind of day
18:00 Brooke        uguuguguguug
18:01 Brooke        ooooh Kiwis
18:01 JDatTeTakere  Sleepy Kiwis. Only 6am.
18:01 Brooke        that's why I'm ooohing and ahhing ;)
18:02 tcohen        gmcharlt: would you take a look at the followup?
18:03 gmcharlt      sure
18:03 JDatTeTakere  Too cold to get up and make coffee in Levin, NZ
18:04 Brooke        you should get a Yank What Does. I've heard they come cheap in the 'Nua
18:04 JDatTeTakere  A Yank what does?
18:05 gmcharlt      #startmeeting Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013
18:05 huginn`       Meeting started Wed Jun  5 18:05:20 2013 UTC.  The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:05 huginn`       Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
18:05 huginn`       The meeting name has been set to 'koha_general_meeting__5_june_2013'
18:05 gmcharlt      #info agenda is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_5_June_2013
18:05 gmcharlt      #topic Introductions
18:05 wahanui       #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
18:06 gmcharlt      #info Galen Charlton, Equinox Software, 3.14 RM
18:06 thd           #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
18:06 nancyk        #info nancyk  Washoe County Library System KohaCon13 Chair
18:06 tcohen        #info Tomás Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Córdoba, Argentina
18:06 jwagner       #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS
18:06 oleonard      #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
18:06 JDatTeTakere  info#Joanne Dillon (JD) at TeTakere, Levin, NZ
18:06 jcamins       #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services, and (past) RM for 3.12
18:06 mduncan       #info Margo Duncan, University of Texas at Tyler, Muntz Library
18:06 pianohacker   #info Jesse Weaver, ByWater Solutions
18:07 drojf         #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin
18:07 davidnind     #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand
18:08 gmcharlt      ko
18:08 gmcharlt      ok
18:08 gmcharlt      #topic Announcements
18:08 cait          #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
18:08 gmcharlt      two minutes for folks to chime in with Koha-related annoucnements
18:09 jcamins       #info 3.12.0 was released on May 19
18:09 edveal        #info Ed Veal, ByWater
18:09 cait          jcamins++ :)
18:10 gmcharlt      jcamins++
18:10 gmcharlt      #topic Update on Koha 3.8
18:11 mtompset      #info Mark Tompsett, Canada
18:11 gmcharlt      #info Koha 3.8.13 was released on 2013-05-23
18:11 Brooke        thanks folks that contributed we <3 you
18:11 rhcl          #info rhcl = Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library (I'm just here to watch the big dogs)
18:12 gmcharlt      3.8.13 was rangi's last release as 3.8 RMaint
18:12 gmcharlt      rangi++
18:12 tcohen        UNC <3 3.8.x and rangis' work
18:12 tcohen        rangi++
18:12 cait          rangi++ :)
18:12 gmcharlt      cjh is now the current 3.8 RMaint
18:13 gmcharlt      looks like his nick is idling, so I'll move on
18:13 gmcharlt      #topic Update on Koha 3.10
18:13 gmcharlt      #info Koha 3.10.6 was released on 2013-05-23
18:14 gmcharlt      3.10.6 was rangi's last release as 3.10 RMaint
18:14 gmcharlt      rangi++ # I'm sensing a pattern here
18:14 cait          rangi++ :) no surprise
18:14 gmcharlt      and bgkriegel is the current RMaint for 3.10
18:15 gmcharlt      and is not here, so...
18:15 mtompset      rangi++
18:15 gmcharlt      #topic Update on Koha 3.12
18:15 tcohen        wait
18:15 gmcharlt      hmm?
18:15 tcohen        bug 10367 was pushed by eythian during packages build
18:15 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10367 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Stable , Allow packages to work on debian wheezy
18:15 tcohen        post-release
18:16 tcohen        for both 3.10 and 3.12
18:16 tcohen        to support debian wheezy
18:16 tcohen        just wanted to note that
18:17 gmcharlt      #info 3.12.0 was released on 2013-05-19
18:17 gmcharlt      jcamins: any parting comments?
18:17 jcamins       I don't think so.
18:17 jcamins       I think we came together to produce a nice, stable release.
18:17 jcamins       And, well done all.
18:17 tcohen        jcamins++
18:17 gmcharlt      jcamins++
18:17 oleonard      all++
18:18 cait          jcamins++ :)
18:18 gmcharlt      tcohen: any comments regarding the upcoming 3.12.1?
18:18 mtompset      nice PDF release notes. :)
18:18 mtompset      jcamins++
18:19 bag           #info Brendan Gallagher, ByWater
18:19 tcohen        3.no comments now
18:19 tcohen        sorry
18:19 gmcharlt      no problem
18:19 tcohen        I want to say I'll do my best
18:19 gmcharlt      moving on
18:19 gmcharlt      #topic Update on Koha 3.14
18:20 gmcharlt      #info gmcharlt has started pushing patches
18:20 cait          yay!
18:20 drojf         are we there yet?
18:20 gmcharlt      #info biggest one so far is one implementing a course reserves feature
18:21 gmcharlt      #info We need more folks testing and signing off on patches
18:21 * cait        agrees with gmcharlt
18:22 cait          and please if you can run the test suite
18:22 cait          and take a look at the coding guidelines :)
18:22 gmcharlt      #info gmcharlt will be starting conversations with the folks who thus far have expressed interest in being module maintainers
18:23 gmcharlt      any questions?
18:23 tcohen        how many module mantainers have postulated?
18:23 gmcharlt      I think two, maybe three people have expressed interest
18:24 cait          could you summarize quickly what the task of the module maintainers will be?
18:24 gmcharlt      yes
18:24 gmcharlt      a module maintainer would be somebody who is expert in a module and who takes responsibility for maintaining a tree of vetted patches related to that module
18:25 gmcharlt      and (ideally) who also takes some responsibility for wrangling bugs related to that module
18:25 gmcharlt      as well as doing QA for that module
18:25 oleonard      "maintaining a tree of vetted patches?"
18:25 gmcharlt      my idea is ultimately that the RM would be able to start pulling branches from the module maintainer's trees
18:25 cait          same question here
18:26 gmcharlt      rather than focusing on each and every bug that passes QA
18:26 tcohen        a benevolent dictator
18:26 gmcharlt      and even longer-term goal, depending on how things work out, is that module maintainers would get the ability to push directly to master for patches related to their modules
18:27 pianohacker   gmcharlt: linux-ish setup?
18:27 gmcharlt      pianohacker: yes
18:27 Brooke        gmcharlt++
18:27 pianohacker   sounds like a good plan
18:28 gmcharlt      a good experiment, I hope, at least
18:28 tcohen        gmcharlt++
18:29 pianohacker   gmcharlt: is there any listing/volunteer page for module maintainers?
18:29 gmcharlt      pianohacker: not yet; I'll need to trawl through the list archives
18:29 gmcharlt      to set one up
18:29 gmcharlt      folks who are intersted can also contact me directly, of course
18:29 pianohacker   okay, just curious
18:30 gmcharlt      any other questions regarding 3.14?
18:31 tweetbot      [off] twitter: @kohails: "#KohaILS  Refonte complète du site de Pikoloco http://t.co/sG2tKik0du"
18:31 tcohen        no quesitons here
18:31 gmcharlt      ok, moving on
18:31 gmcharlt      #topic KohaCon 2013
18:31 nancyk        Koha reservation page has been fixed, thanks to Liz
18:32 nancyk        Call for sponsors is going out later today, as are presentation confirmations
18:32 cait          nancyk++
18:32 nancyk        Digital flier inviting people to the conference will be out next week
18:32 nancyk        Anyone have any questions or suggestions?
18:33 gmcharlt      #info Koha reservation page has been fixed, thanks to Liz;  Call for sponsors is going out later today, as are presentation confirmations; Digital flier inviting people to the conference will be out next week;
18:33 thd           To whom is the digital flier being sent?
18:33 cait          nancyk: thx for all your work, really looking forward to kohacon :)
18:34 nancyk        thanks
18:34 nancyk        Fliers will go to library groups, and anywhere I can get them
18:34 tcohen        nancyk: how is the room reservation count going? did we reach the goal?
18:34 nancyk        Things are moving along very well
18:35 nancyk        We have 64 registered, but not at the hotel yet
18:35 nancyk        Some are waiting for their fiscal year to turn over
18:35 nancyk        that's all for now
18:36 gmcharlt      nancyk++
18:36 cait          nancyk++
18:36 tcohen        nancyk++
18:36 thd           nancyk: What address can be used to confirm registrations?
18:37 nancyk        I am sending them out personally, so everyone should have one as of today.  Use my email for probs
18:37 nancyk        nkeener@washoecounty.us
18:37 gmcharlt      #topic KohaCon 2014
18:38 gmcharlt      on the agenda there's a question about whether we've sent out a call for potential host sites
18:38 gmcharlt      I don't think it has, so who wants to volunteer to put out a call for proposals to host KohaCon in 2014?
18:40 drojf         i can do that. probably not today but in the next days#
18:40 gmcharlt      #action drojf will put out a call for proposals to host KohaCon in 2014
18:40 cait          drojf++
18:40 gmcharlt      moving on
18:40 gmcharlt      #topic Version numbering
18:41 gmcharlt      does anybody wish to adopt this agenda item?
18:42 pianohacker   everyone has an opinion, nobody wants to take responsibility for starting the discussion
18:42 thd           I just want the question to be clear.
18:42 oleonard      http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_5_June_2013
18:43 oleonard      If no one wants to raise the issue and advocate the position I suggest we move on.
18:43 thd           pianohacker: The discussion has been had at more length than many thought worthwhile.
18:43 pianohacker   thd: Yeah, that was my understanding. Bikeshedded
18:43 cait          so can we move on? :)
18:43 pianohacker   yup, vote to move on
18:44 gmcharlt      admittedly, this only delays the question -- but I suggest that version number questions be restricted to the period when roles for the next release are being considered
18:44 thd           oleonard: If we move on then how has the issue been settled or has the issue been dropped?
18:44 oleonard      thd: With no one here to advocate for a change there is no reason to discuss it
18:45 drojf         thd: put it on the agenda for another meeting and it is back. i guess
18:45 pianohacker   so dropped, with the release after pi continuing the trend and being 3.16
18:45 cait          we are going to have 3.14 (codename pi)
18:45 jcamins       pianohacker: or, more precisely, dropped and no decision made. There has been no solid proposal, just a lot of paint.
18:45 gmcharlt      pianohacker: I'd say the question is dropped for now, with the question of how to number the next release after 3.14 to be decided during the election period
18:46 pianohacker   gmcharlt: Sounds good, let's throw that on the minutes
18:46 tcohen        +1 # gmcharlt's proposal
18:46 cait          +1
18:46 thd           oleonard: As posted on the wiki agenda the issue was only to vote on a question which had already been discussed at length already on the mailing list.
18:47 oleonard      +1 # gmcharlt's proposal
18:47 thd           +1 # gmcharlt postponing the dullest question ever
18:47 gmcharlt      #agreed Any decision on the question of how to number the version of Koha following 3.14 is deferred to the project role election period
18:49 gmcharlt      #topic Action items from the 7 May 2013 meeting
18:49 gmcharlt      #info ifrst action item is Test all the things!
18:49 gmcharlt      so, have all the things been tested?
18:49 gmcharlt      no?
18:49 wahanui       http://i.imgur.com/hVVuP.jpg
18:49 * cait        reports that more testing is needed
18:49 gmcharlt      cait++
18:50 cait          Test all the things!
18:50 tcohen        test coverage should be improved
18:51 gmcharlt      there was also an action item for BobB to test reserves
18:51 gmcharlt      BobB: anything to report?
18:52 cait          hm wrong time I think
18:52 gmcharlt      yep
18:52 gmcharlt      so moving on
18:52 gmcharlt      #topic Decide time of next meeting
18:53 gmcharlt      going by our normal cycle, I think that would be Wednesday, 3 July 2013
18:53 davidnind     Time for next meeting would be 10:00 UTC
18:53 tcohen        is there a kohacon13 planning meeting soon?
18:53 thd           Wed 3 is too soon after ALA
18:54 nancyk        26th of june 18UTC for KohaCon 13 planning
18:54 thd           I suggest Wed. 10 July.
18:55 gmcharlt      #info Next KohaCon 13 planning meeting is on 26 June 2013 at 18UTC
18:55 oleonard      Either is fine with me, I don't object to the 10th.
18:55 gmcharlt      ditto
18:56 gmcharlt      OK, so +1/-1 for Wednesday, 10 July 2013 at 10:00 UTC+0 ?
18:56 tcohen        +1
18:56 oleonard      +1
18:56 cait          +1
18:56 thd           +1
18:56 davidnind     +1
18:56 drojf         +1
18:56 mtompset      +1
18:57 JDatTeTakere  +1
18:57 gmcharlt      #agreed Next general meeting wlll be held on Wednesday, 10 July 2013 at 10:00 UTC+0
18:57 gmcharlt      and ... we've run out of agenda items!
18:57 tcohen        do we have a calendar@google for koha stufF?
18:58 mtompset      I'm assuming to help co-ordinate various meetings, right, tcohen?
18:58 thd           tcohen: If we did that would not be a free software calendar.
18:58 * tcohen      hides
18:59 tcohen        I belive we could have such a tool, maybe a hosted one
18:59 mtompset      If the purpose it to co-ordinate meetings, it wouldn't have to be google. The point is a generally shared calendar.
18:59 tcohen        nevermind,if I come up with a proposal, I'll make it
18:59 drojf         do whatever you like on google, don't make it in any way obligatory for me to use it
18:59 gmcharlt      I agree that some sort of calendar would be nice
18:59 thd           tcohen: I would suggest creating a comprehensive calendar page at wiki.koha-community.org instead.
18:59 oleonard      MediaWiki plugin?
18:59 gmcharlt      tcohen: perhaps talk with wizzyrea?
18:59 tcohen        i'll do it
19:00 tcohen        touche drojf
19:00 cait          i think we have a calendar on the kc-website
19:00 cait          we just don't use it very often
19:00 drojf         heh
19:00 gmcharlt      cait: yeah, I vaguely remember that
19:00 gmcharlt      :/
19:00 gmcharlt      OK, thanks folks!
19:00 gmcharlt      #endmeeting
19:00 huginn`       Meeting ended Wed Jun  5 19:00:46 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
19:00 huginn`       Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/koha_general_meeting__5_june_2013.2013-06-05-18.05.html
19:00 huginn`       Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/koha_general_meeting__5_june_2013.2013-06-05-18.05.txt
19:00 huginn`       Log:            http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/koha_general_meeting__5_june_2013.2013-06-05-18.05.log.html
19:01 davidnind     gmcharlt++
19:01 cait          gmcharlt++
19:02 thd           tcohen: As drojf stated anyone is free to start a calendar anywhere but we may already have some community resources which should serve the purpose.
19:03 mtompset      I couldn't see a calendar, as I would expect a calendar, but I do see an "Events" section.
19:03 tcohen        thd: if we have that resources, I'll try to focus on that for my proposal
19:03 tcohen        i mentioned google calendar as i use it for my personal stuff
19:03 tcohen        but agree is not the best approach
19:04 tcohen        bye #Koha
19:05 thd           tcohen: We have moved away from dependencies on non-free software from Google which we have had at one time.  Google has a bad habit of dropping or changing features and as their implementations are not generally free software we cannot simply fork their proprietary products.
19:06 pianohacker   see greader
19:07 thd           s/dependencies/relying upon/
19:07 jcamins       Fortunately before he left tcohen indicated that he would look into the community's existing unused calendar tools.
19:07 oleonard      And fortunately before he left he agreed that Google Calendar wasn't the best approach
19:07 drojf         i have offered to end friendships for putting my data into google calendar ;)
19:08 thd           :)
19:09 drojf         do we still do the unwritten "not two times in a row on the same continent" thing for kohacon?
19:09 oleonard      I assume so
19:09 jcamins       Yes.
19:09 jcamins       I think it was even written somewhere.
19:11 gmcharlt      http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Conference_Bidding woudl be the closest
19:11 gmcharlt      which suggests yes, different continent
19:12 gmcharlt      but (at least as written) doesn't settle on a 4 vs. 6 approach
19:12 cait          4 vs 6
19:12 cait          ?
19:13 cait          hm it has a note at the top: N.B. This is a proposal / request for comment, it is not the will of the Community. (Yet. Bend! I has chocolate!)
19:13 gmcharlt      indeed
19:13 gmcharlt      maybe it's a small question?
19:13 cait          i think maybe avoid the same in twice in a row
19:13 * gmcharlt    favors 6 (or even 7, if somebody figured out a way to subsidize folk's travel to Antarctica)
19:14 cait          and it's always going to matter who offers to host
19:14 * jcamins     would favor 6.
19:14 jcamins       But doesn't actually care.
19:14 * oleonard    would not favor a hackfest which required the wearing of mittens
19:15 pianohacker   If only because it reflects a desire to spread the travel pain around, definitely 6
19:15 pianohacker   toronto is a long way from buenos aires
19:15 gmcharlt      yeah, lumping North and South America together would be a bit weird
19:16 pianohacker   what else would you put together, though?
19:17 gmcharlt      that's might point, I wouldn't lump
19:17 gmcharlt      *my point
19:17 cait          europe has the disadvantage of too many countries in not a lot of space... hard for everyone to get a turn ;)
19:19 drojf         yes, we deserve to be regarded as several continents ;)
19:19 tweetbot      [off] twitter: @gmcharlt: "The minutes of the #KohaILS general meeting that just finished can be found at http://t.co/nzQ9DiR3Gf"
19:20 jcamins       drojf: the beer continent, the cheese continent, and the salted taffey continent?
19:20 jcamins       Or salted licorice.
19:21 * oleonard    shudders
19:21 jcamins       oleonard: it's called salmiak.
19:22 * jcamins     learned this from #evergreen.
19:23 drojf         and it's lovely
19:24 jcamins       drojf: apparently it's very polarizing.
19:24 oleonard      What directory are plugins uploaded to?
19:25 drojf         jcamins: this is polarizing ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmiakki_Koskenkorva
19:26 jcamins       drojf: wow. That is.
19:26 jcamins       oleonard: the directory set in koha-conf.xml.
19:26 drojf         we should have kohacon in finland ;)
19:27 rhcl          Thailand
19:27 tweetbot      [off] twitter: @gmcharlt: "The next Koha general meeting is scheduled for 10 July 2013 at 10:00 UTC #KohaILS"
19:27 oleonard      Thanks jcamins
19:28 jcamins       There's an Evergreen library in Finland. Not sure I know of any Koha libraries in Finland (not that this means there aren't).
19:28 rhcl          nobody has talked recently of having a joint EG-Koha conference
19:29 jcamins       rhcl: it would be incumbent on someone proposing to coordinate that.
19:29 rhcl          above my pay grade
19:33 oleonard      Coding guideline note: If you add a class to something in the template because you want it to look different, make sure that class exists in the CSS
19:33 jcamins       oleonard: maybe the class was just to make it possible to customize in the future?
19:34 oleonard      Or maybe it was because I typed a class I thought existed but didn't?
19:34 jcamins       Or that.
19:43 pianohacker   oleonard: no no go for the omniscient, forward-planning defence
19:45 * oleonard    hops in his time machine and sets it for the future
19:45 * cait        has mac n cheese yay!
20:07 tweetbot      [off] twitter: @ranginui: "@Vickiteal i read your minutes, there are lots of inhouse developers for libraries using #KohaILS and they do not just do bug fixes"
20:07 cait          now i wonder about the minutes :)
20:09 jcamins       Me too!
20:09 cait          we are too curious for our own good
20:09 rangi         lol
20:09 rangi         2 secs
20:10 rangi         [off] http://www.scls.info/committees/ic/minutes/2013-04-03.pdf
20:10 rangi         talking about hiring an in house developer
20:10 rangi         apparently no ll libs do it, and community ones only ever do bugfixes
20:11 mtompset      pianohacker: Alaska and Canada, because Alaska is an island in the middle of nowhere. ;)
20:11 rangi         apparently marcelr, tcohen, oleonard (and all the ones i missed) dont exist
20:12 jcamins       I think Mathieu would be a little insulted.
20:12 rangi         oh yes mathieu too
20:12 cait          do i have to read the whole thing?
20:12 cait          or will you give a hint?
20:12 jcamins       Wait, really?
20:13 jcamins       3 upgrades a year is a lot?
20:13 rangi         heh
20:13 rangi         about page 3 cait
20:13 cait          in ils world yes
20:13 cait          found it
20:13 cait          thx :)
20:13 jcamins       cait: I don't know, my stance is that minor updates should be *so* minor that you can have them monthly.
20:14 rangi         oh dobrica
20:14 jcamins       Yes, Dobrica.
20:14 rangi         theres tons!
20:14 rangi         eggs
20:14 rangi         if thats the level of research the librarians there can do, ....
20:14 rangi         anyway, i just felt i needed to point out that it was wrong
20:15 rangi         maybe ill do a blog post
20:15 cait          rangi: does it really matter? they are not using 'community koha'
20:15 rhcl          [off]somehow I thought Project Pioneer (Nebraska) was going to migrate to Koha
20:15 jcamins       Wow, what a weird word: Лусии
20:15 cait          lucy?
20:15 jcamins       (It's "Lucia" as in "Saint Lucia")
20:15 cait          aah
20:16 jcamins       cait: but it looks totally wrong as an ordinary nominative noun! It's just sitting there going "hey, what? You thought I was Russian?"
20:16 rangi         [off] rhcl off the fork to actual koha?
20:16 cait          lol
20:16 rhcl          rangi: yes
20:16 rangi         [off] i havent heard anythign like that, you may have better sources than me
20:17 rhcl          yea, we were up to talk to them a couple of years ago
20:17 rangi         cait: it does when they are saying things about koha
20:17 jcamins       [off] Someone at Project Pioneer was asking about that, but I never heard anything beyond a single initial question a while (very long while?) ago.
20:17 * drojf       claims kind-of-an-inhouse-programmer status ^^
20:17 cait          rangi: yeah adding to the confusion :(
20:18 rangi         right time to take kids to school bbiab
20:18 cait          drojf: you are totally :)
20:18 cait          can I count too? bsz's own library also uses koha :)
20:18 cait          hehe
20:18 jcamins       [off] I want to say that about two years ago someone asked about the complexity of the migration, and I told them to talk to ByWater 'cause I wasn't interested.
20:18 drojf         yay we are legion ;)
20:19 jcamins       drojf: well done! That phrase gives a lot of non-native English speakers trouble.
20:20 drojf         ??
20:20 jcamins       "We are legion."
20:21 jcamins       A lot of people think it's "We are legions" because "legion" is a singular noun.
20:21 drojf         i think anonymous fixed that ;)
20:21 jcamins       True of native English speakers as well, actually.
20:21 drojf         you can actually say it in german too, but it is not used very often
20:23 tweetbot      [off] twitter: @ranginui: "@Vickiteal oh i forgot dobrica too, short answer i think about 6 libraries (at least) have an inhouse #KohaILS developer"
20:24 cait          :)
20:43 mtompset      legion?! Is there a demonic possession somewhere? ;)
20:43 tcohen        we had a legion
20:44 tcohen        "The legion"
20:44 tcohen        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina_Davis_Cup_team
20:45 mtompset      Ah... tennis team.
20:46 tcohen        also an infamous legion
20:50 mtompset      YES! YES! YES!
20:50 mtompset      I have gotten a link to fake login as me!
20:51 mtompset      Now to rip out the fake login as me and put in a login in as someone real.
20:51 gmcharlt      mtompset: what are you up to, anyway?
20:51 tcohen        shibboleth
20:51 mtompset      Okay... I've set up simple saml php...
20:52 mtompset      I've got it working to test against OpenIDP
20:52 mtompset      I have hacked koha to redirect to a php script I created from a copy of authenticate.php
20:52 mtompset      which then calls a backchannel perl script.
20:52 mtompset      and then redirects to the OPAC
20:53 mtompset      I started this work based on biblibre's shibboleth hack.
20:54 mtompset      Though, I think this could get integrated as a RESTFUL Login API .
20:54 tcohen        do u think it is possible to do it using oerl?
20:54 tcohen        perl?
20:54 wahanui       perl is, like, different things to different people
20:55 mtompset      Do what simplesamlphp does in perl?
20:55 mtompset      Mmmmm.... I'm not going to try, if this passing stuff works.
20:55 tcohen        do what that php script does
20:55 mtompset      first, it does the saml authentication to the source.
20:56 mtompset      upon successful authentication, it calls a "backchannel" script which sets up the user session information and returns the session id, the php script then puts the session id into the cookie and redirects to the OPAC.
20:58 mtompset      I've been working off a HTML page just to avoid the session cookie from being tinkered with... but now that the link on the testing HTML page works... I can try to set it up in my hacked up OPAC and confirm it works. :)
20:59 tcohen        great mtompset, congratulations
20:59 mtompset      the backchannel script is currently called POST with the attributes returned by the authentication source yaml-ized.
20:59 mtompset      I have code to de-yaml-ize it, and map it like the ldap stuff.
21:00 mtompset      So, the login by email equivalent, except using simplesamlphp (or whatever other authenticating system), should follow from this.
21:23 gmcharlt      mtompset: I know next to nothing about Shibboleth -- is it a thing with it that PHP is either required, or at least it is much easier to support using PHP?
21:24 mtompset      SimpleSAMLPHP provides Shibboleth 1.3 and SAML 2.0 support rather easily, and it is available as a package under Ubuntu. I have yet to confirm it is under Debian, but I would suspect it is.
21:25 mtompset      The PHP authentication hacked script I have would need to be written for the users context, but I am assuming that is do-able.
21:25 mtompset      The Perl side of it will do the translation of the authenticated attributes and do the log in into Koha.
21:26 mtompset      Effectively, the perl-side becomes a REST-ful API for logging in.
21:27 mtompset      I still have to work out the log out part... but right now, that is low priority. :)
21:27 gmcharlt      a la /svc/authentication? :)
21:27 pianohacker   svc++
21:27 mtompset      Yes, but this doesn't pass a username and password. :P
21:28 pianohacker   extend 'er to then
21:29 mtompset      Because, unless the SAML was implemented in Perl, you won't know the password... uid is, however, a typical attribute you likely will know, as it email address.
21:29 mtompset      ^it^is^
21:31 gmcharlt      what about Net::SAML?
21:31 mtompset      I was concerned about licensing issues, and bug fixes if it is broken, etc. etc.
21:31 mtompset      SimpleSAMLPHP externally is much more active.
21:32 mtompset      Net::SAML and Net::SAML2 have bad reps. :)
21:33 tcohen        besides the simplesamlphp idp, why do u need to hack php?
21:34 mtompset      Also, gmcharlt, svc/authentication doesn't add users.
21:34 mtompset      To pass back the attributes to perl.
21:36 mtompset      The SAML processing is done in the PHP, not Perl.
21:37 wizzyrea      pianohacker++
21:37 wizzyrea      so glad you're back.
21:37 pianohacker   thanks, wizzyrea
21:37 pianohacker   good to be back :)
21:38 tcohen        wizzyrea: is it possible to have a calendar on k-c.org?
21:38 mtompset      I was just thinking that, tcohen. ;)
21:38 wizzyrea      for what purpose :)
21:39 wizzyrea      (the answer is yes0
21:39 wizzyrea      anything is possible
21:39 tcohen        1) graphical visualization of important Koha dates
21:39 tcohen        2) ical or something compatible, to have it on our smartphones or any gadget we have
21:40 mtompset      (translation team meetings, general meetings, annual conference dates, etc.)
21:41 tcohen        (string freeze, feature freeze, release dates, etc)
21:41 wizzyrea      any other requirements?
21:41 tcohen        i got hammered for proposing using evil calendar
21:41 jcamins       3) so people know what to have for dinner, in case they forget that pizza is for dinner on Fridays, etc.
21:43 cait          :)
21:43 cait          tcohen: you live :)
21:44 tcohen        :D
21:44 wizzyrea      oh I don't bother saying the g word anymore
21:45 wizzyrea      i use it for mail, youtube, and a little plus and that's about it.
21:47 tcohen        i depend on the calendar @ work, don't forget my memory fades, as I'm 122
21:47 cait          didn't you already turn 123?
21:47 tcohen        that'd be 18th june
21:48 pianohacker   jcamins: as a college student I can authoritatively state that pizza is for every dinner
21:48 pianohacker   once thanks to a bunch of presentations I had pizza 4 days in a row
21:48 pianohacker   that was... entertaining
21:48 jcamins       pianohacker: yeah, but it's an international phenomenon in #koha.
21:48 jcamins       Ugh. I can't see the screen the glare is so bad.
21:48 mtompset      Close your eyes. The reason will change. :P
21:49 jcamins       I suppose it will.
21:49 mtompset      I thought fish was on Fridays? Why Pizza?
21:50 jcamins       mtompset: because magnuse makes pizza sound delicious.
21:51 mtompset      But I though cookies were delicious. :P
21:51 mtompset      ^though^thought^
21:52 pianohacker   quick git trivia question; is there any way to update master to origin/master when master isn't checked out?
21:52 jcamins       Aren't they both?
21:52 tcohen        rangi: did you arrange this to have access to a big kitchen @ reno?
21:52 jcamins       pianohacker: not that I know of. You're going to have to check out master at some point.
21:52 pianohacker   jcamins: Curses! An extra second in my workflow! :)
21:53 gmcharlt      pianohacker: you're not a Culture Ship Mind, you can take it ;)
21:53 tcohen        doesn't git pull do that?
21:54 gmcharlt      tcohen: no; git pull == git fetch + git merge
21:54 pianohacker   hehe
21:54 gmcharlt      but git merge is done on the current, checked-out branch
21:54 mtompset      Goodness... I knew that. :P
21:54 tcohen        i miss understood the question
21:55 pianohacker   tcohen: I have branch "potato" checked out, was wondering if there was a way to update "master" to "origin/master" without checking out "master" first
21:55 mtompset      wants to do a git pull without having to issue the checkout... because that might require a commit. :P
21:55 jcamins       pianohacker: but why would you want to update master without having it checked out?
21:55 mtompset      ^He wants^
21:56 pianohacker   it was an idle curiosity :) Mainly so I can get all the branches in my git repo up to date without disturbing the working tree on my demo server
21:56 tcohen        http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3216360/git-update-a-local-branch-without-checking-it-out
21:57 jcamins       mtompset: right, but that's not actually a reason to do it, just an explanation of what he's trying to do.
21:57 pianohacker   thanks to the godforsaken building wifi, I can only get stuff into github by ssh reverse-forwarding to my demo server for work, pulling from my laptop to the demo server, then pushing from there
21:57 jcamins       Okay.
21:57 pianohacker   That somehow works in a second, though a git push directly to github takes a minute or so then fails
21:58 pianohacker   don't ask me why
21:58 jcamins       So why are you trying to update master on your local repo?
21:58 rangi         tcohen: not yet
21:58 mtompset      pianohacker: Reminds me of http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2013-04-07/
21:59 pianohacker   So I can get my github up to date
21:59 pianohacker   I've already done it the sane way, this is just curiosity
21:59 jcamins       Ah.
21:59 jcamins       What do you keep in your master branch?
22:00 pianohacker   jcamins: Just upstream master
22:00 jcamins       In that case, I suggest git push mycrazyremote origin/master:master
22:01 pianohacker   mtompset: yeah, basically
22:01 pianohacker   jcamins: Yeah
22:02 mtompset      I figured as such, since you complained about that extra second in your workflow. :)
22:02 pianohacker   tcohen: that looks like it would work but is crazy enough to convince me that I'm crazy
22:02 mtompset      And it is the firewall, of course. :)
22:02 tcohen        heh
22:03 pianohacker   naw, blaming the ISP is better
22:03 tcohen        infrastructure question: do we use gitosis? or gitolite? neither?
22:03 pianohacker   then it's a firewall protected by several layers of useless tech support
22:04 rangi         tcohen: gitolite
22:05 rangi         gmcharlt and I can edit the config
22:05 rangi         if you need anything
22:07 tcohen        sorry, phone rangi
22:07 tcohen        we are having issues
22:07 tcohen        with our gitolite
22:07 tcohen        (with redmine)
22:08 rangi         oh?
22:08 pianohacker   augh r/crappydesign is in comic sans
22:08 tcohen        @ unc, we use that
22:08 huginn`       tcohen: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready
22:08 jcamins       pianohacker: let's think about this for a moment...
22:09 tcohen        and wanted to know if updating gitolite was a pain or not
22:09 pianohacker   it's appropriate, of course, but still painful
22:09 tcohen        (i.e.if i have to do it or if i can delegate to the production guys)
22:10 gmcharlt      tcohen: are you currently using v2 or v3?
22:11 rangi         tcohen: so far ive found it really painless
22:11 tcohen        v2.3-35-gd59bc35
22:11 tcohen        (i didn't do the install, and they wouldn't let me maintain it, but i took control yesterday)
22:12 tcohen        (after several problems related to redmine, besides being ugly)
22:12 wizzyrea      tcohen - still experimental, not many events, but: http://koha-community.org/calendar/
22:13 gmcharlt      tcohen: it's not painful, but personally I wouldn't delegate to anybody who wasn't reasonably famiiliar with git and git hooks
22:13 tcohen        understood, thanks gmcharlt
22:14 tcohen        wizzyrea: you rule, you know that?
22:14 gmcharlt      wizzyrea: groovy
22:14 cait          wizzyrea++
22:14 wizzyrea      naw, I just have wicked google fu :p
22:14 wizzyrea      google searching.
22:15 tcohen        wizzyrea++
22:17 wizzyrea      agenda?
22:17 wahanui       agenda is a wiki
22:17 wizzyrea      irc meeting?
22:17 wizzyrea      gr.
22:17 wizzyrea      theoretically we could put the agenda on the event on the calendar
22:18 gmcharlt      event editnig permissions are predicated on having a WP account?
22:18 wizzyrea      yep, with permissions, which is probably an argument to leave it on the wiki
22:19 wizzyrea      http://koha-community.org/ai1ec_event/4445/?instance_id=
22:19 wizzyrea      (for example)
22:20 gmcharlt      snazzy
22:21 gmcharlt      I think wiki for now, but I could imagine a grand unification project that ties both WP and Mediawiki to an LDAP directory
22:21 wizzyrea      cuz'n we can do that now ;)
22:22 gmcharlt      heh - http://wordpress.org/plugins/wpmuldap/ might be areason to keep it MU
22:22 wizzyrea      oh all wordpress is MU now, you just have to enable it
22:22 wizzyrea      (and it's still mu anyway)
22:23 mtompset      MU?
22:23 wahanui       hmmm... MU is a speaker, AR is a little book
22:23 wizzyrea      multiuser/multiblog
22:23 mtompset      I thought MU was mutual understanding. ;)
22:25 wizzyrea      gr I can't work on this now but will go back to it later.
22:30 pianohacker   @seen srdjan
22:30 huginn`       pianohacker: I have not seen srdjan.
22:31 pianohacker   Does he come on IRC at all?
22:31 wizzyrea      try papa
22:31 wizzyrea      @seen papa
22:31 huginn`       wizzyrea: papa was last seen in #koha 21 hours, 36 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <papa> Like when it had MARC in it, i'd skip immediately :)
22:31 pianohacker   Ah, thanks
22:31 pianohacker   @later tell papa updated patch #1 for 10320, thanks for the feedback
22:31 huginn`       pianohacker: The operation succeeded.
22:33 pianohacker   http://www.tannr.com/herp-derp-youtube-comments/
22:34 druthb        pianohacker++
22:34 pianohacker   no-restart install for firefox, and it's... amazing
22:35 wizzyrea      bug 10320
22:35 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10320 enhancement, P4, ---, jweaver, Needs Signoff , Show results from library's OverDrive collection in OPAC search
22:38 pianohacker   wizzyrea: First patch since I got back
22:38 cait          congrats :)
22:38 wizzyrea      and boy what a doozy
22:38 wizzyrea      that's fantastic.
22:38 wizzyrea      looks and works nicely too!
22:39 pianohacker   thanks :)
22:54 eythian       hi
22:55 rhcl          hi
22:57 cait          wizzyrea: can we get a screenshot? no overdrive in germany
22:57 eythian       hi cait, what are you doing still up?
22:57 cait          i was finishing my latest distance study course :)
22:58 eythian       ah, cool
22:58 eythian       oh, if you want some more, Catalyst did this website: https://www.open2study.com/
22:58 cait          and now i am going to bed - still curious how overdrive looks like :)
22:59 cait          eythian: rangi showed me already - but i better stick to those i need for my degree for now :)
22:59 eythian       that's taking the easy way out!
22:59 wizzyrea      I don't have a screenshot
22:59 cait          ooh
23:00 cait          night all :)
23:17 Brooke        o/
23:39 eythian       http://seriouslyjs.org/ <-- neat
23:40 tcohen        hi eythian
23:40 eythian       hello
23:40 wahanui       bonjour, eythian
23:43 tcohen        that's awesome eythian
23:43 eythian       it really is
23:55 jcamins       My brother was docked in a course in his second MA degree program at Arizona State for providing the citation to the original text of an article rather than a reproduction of the article which he had not yet received.
23:56 jcamins       That's kind of absurd.
23:56 jcamins       Especially since apparently the reason he lost points was "his citation was wrong."
23:57 jcamins       Just when I think that faculty members should be relied upon to teach citation, someone comes along and demonstrates that librarians _are_ necessary in that connection.
23:58 dcook         O_o