Time Nick Message 00:00 trea that's a safe bet. 00:00 eythian http://www.blorpy.com/post/51580458274/tuesday-ten-weird-childrens-toys-a-collection-of <-- wizzyrea 00:00 mtj haaay, i just discovered vim's :retab thingy - very handy for Koha 00:01 jcamins http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/codetables/45.html 00:01 wizzyrea http://www.loc.gov/marc/specifications/speccharmarc8.html 00:02 wizzyrea ok #2 - it's a jiggly bouncy ball that kids just adore. 00:02 wizzyrea that's not a weird toy. 00:03 cjh man #4 is awesome! 00:10 trea "shoots fragmentation bomb" 00:10 trea something every child needs 00:14 * wizzyrea shudders 00:15 * cjh knows what mini-trea is getting for xmas.... 00:20 mtj how do people feel about having a general tab/whitespace tidy-up, early in this release cycle? 00:21 eythian mtj: it screws with history if you're not careful 00:22 mtj …or at least identifing which are the worst files, for crufty whitespace 00:24 mtj eythian, i didnt know that specifically - tho i guessed it would introduce some merge problems with older patches 00:24 eythian it may also do that. 00:27 mtj i'm starting to see new patches failing QA, that have cut/pasted existing glitchy lines :/ 00:28 jcamins Are you sure that's not a good thing? 00:28 eythian I think it is a good thing 00:28 eythian you should clean up the stuff you're working on, at the very least. 00:28 mtj the failing is a great thing! 00:29 mtj …the manually tidying up the failing lines is a tedious pain 00:29 eythian you select the stuff you modified and run it through perltidy 00:29 rangi many many many more patches will fail if you do a mass change 00:30 rangi and yep, its easy with vim 00:30 rangi select a bit and perltidy it 00:30 jcamins F6 FTW! 00:31 eythian I have it on the same button :) 00:34 mtj yeah, i do the same 00:35 rangi hmm 00:35 rangi http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8868#c7 00:35 huginn` 04Bug 8868: enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Failed QA , ILS-DI: CancelHold needs to take a reserve_id 00:35 rangi too harsh? 00:37 jcamins eems fair. 00:37 jcamins *Seems 00:37 rangi cool 00:39 mtj haay ftw, i have global/selectable whitespace stripper function() in vim 00:40 mtj ...which works well for templates files 00:40 mtj EOL whitespace stripper, and tab replacer 00:41 mtj ^^ my other pet-peeve :) 00:45 rangi mine is not enough sign offs :) 00:45 * rangi cracks the whip 00:45 rangi more work, less talk!! :-) 00:46 mtj yes sir! 00:50 * dcook giggles 00:50 dcook Well, I'm not sure I'm actually capable of giggling, but...the sentiment is there nonetheless 00:51 dcook papa++ 00:52 papa eh, what have I done now? 00:52 rangi lots of signoffs 00:52 papa ah that :) 00:52 dcook In 5 days :) 00:52 papa you mean in 2 00:53 dcook Probably 00:53 dcook Whoa... 00:53 papa but I was cheating a bit, I picked the easy ones 00:53 dcook I like the idea of marcflavour being called MarcFormat instead, but...that's a lot of testing... 00:53 dcook Fair enough 00:54 dcook I barely have time for the easy ones at the moment :S 00:54 papa Like when it had MARC in it, i'd skip immediately :) 00:54 * dcook looks balefully at the project that never seems to end... 00:54 dcook hehe 00:55 dcook To be honest, I'm half-tempted to install a UNIMARC system just to sign off some of those patches 00:56 jcamins I don't think I like MarcFormat. 00:56 dcook Oh...just noticed jcamins's offline circ patch.. 00:56 dcook No? 00:56 wahanui http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/3/2933/collapsing.gif 00:57 jcamins Technically UNIMARC has two formats, one of which is the same as the MARC21 format. 00:57 dcook O_o 00:57 jcamins The other one being for authorities, and people who are drunk. 00:57 dcook o_O 00:58 rangi :)\ 00:58 rangi a lot of library standards feel like they were designed when people were drunk 00:58 eythian your chin is falling off, rangi 00:58 rangi too much drink eythian 00:59 eythian designing library standards, are you? 01:08 jcamins lol 01:12 wizzyrea unimarc smells of wine. 01:12 rangi i find unimarc more sane than marc21 actually 01:13 rangi but then again, i find a pile of mud more sane than marc21 01:14 eythian wahanui: library patrons is <reply>patrons can be found here: http://notalwaysright.com/tag/library 01:14 wahanui OK, eythian. 01:15 dcook *facepalm* 01:16 dcook eythian: I think my happiness points just dropped :( 01:16 dcook Evil humans... 01:16 eythian wahanui: facepalm is <reply>http://buikitty.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/20120202-094434.jpg 01:16 wahanui OK, eythian. 01:17 dcook They might be back up now ^_^ 01:17 dcook Also, you do have a link for everything 01:17 * dcook almost wonders if there is a link for that... 01:17 eythian heh 01:22 rangi jcamins: what do you think of bug 9728 01:22 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9728 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Signed Off , XISBN use simple search instead of SQL 01:22 rangi as a general idea (not the code quality or anything) 01:32 jcamins rangi: I think it's a good idea generally. 01:33 rangi cool 01:33 rangi ill qa it then :) 01:54 jcamins I have to say the Schwartzian transform may be the most cryptic pieces of code I've ever seen. 01:54 jcamins I'm confused by the => bits in it. 01:55 eythian there are no => bits in it 01:56 pastebot "jcamins" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Schwartzian transform" (13 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/49 01:56 jcamins Really? 01:56 wahanui Really is off now 01:56 jcamins ^^ that's the version I'm looking at. 01:58 eythian if it turned more of the parts into blocks, the => could go away 01:58 eythian (keeping in mind that => eq , 01:58 eythian ) 02:00 jcamins Oh, so basically => is like an implied } in this case? 02:01 eythian no, it's just a comma 02:01 jcamins Right, but I could convert those into maps using {} and no =>? 02:02 eythian it's like map chr, @list is the same as map chr => @list 02:02 eythian well, you'd be converting the expression into a block 02:02 eythian so that map doesn't require the comma 02:03 jcamins Okay, now I understand. 02:03 cjh oh wow schwartzian in the wild 02:04 jcamins I'm not sure it's actually necessary in this instance. 02:04 jcamins Which is good, because I'm not convinced it's not gratuitous obfuscation. 02:07 jcamins I'm all for efficient algorithms, but how often are you going to deduplicate an authority file? 02:07 rangi exactly 02:08 rangi theres a whole thing about premature optimisation 02:08 rangi http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PrematureOptimization 02:08 jcamins Now I just need to find a readable way to write this. 02:08 eythian http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16927024/perl-5-20-and-the-fate-of-smartmatch-and-given-when 02:08 rangi eythian has the book on his shelf :) 02:09 jcamins What's Smartmatch? 02:10 cjh a relatively new perl operator ~~ 02:10 eythian it's comparison using ~~ 02:10 eythian it's only about 10 years old or so 02:10 cjh heh 02:11 jcamins Ah. 02:11 jcamins ~~ 02:11 jcamins I've seen that a few times. 02:12 jcamins Actually, I just figured out my issue with the Schwartzian transform. 02:12 jcamins It's a good algorithm to use for this, but it doesn't need to be all on one line. 02:12 jcamins Temporary variables are okay. 02:12 eythian yeah 02:13 eythian only three uses of ~~ in koha 02:15 eythian http://youtu.be/hFo7eJR2cvc 02:16 cjh the 3rd movie \o/ 02:29 jcamins Okay, question... if I am going to call one of two routines repeatedly, is it bad for me to assign a reference to that routine to a variable and use $GetRecord->($recordid)? 02:30 jcamins $authorities ? GetAuthority($recordid) : GetBiblio($recordid) offends me, as does expanding that into a proper if. 02:32 eythian I think it's fine to do that 02:32 jcamins Thanks. 02:33 wizzyrea http://io9.com/william-shatner-reads-his-version-of-where-the-wild-thi-511210553 02:33 eythian wahanui: captain cook is climbing a mountain 02:33 wahanui OK, eythian. 02:33 eythian oh that's totally wrong 02:34 wizzyrea lol 02:34 eythian wahanui: forget captain cook 02:34 wahanui eythian: I forgot captain cook 02:34 wizzyrea captain kirk is climbing a mountain 02:34 wahanui Why is he climbing a mountain? 02:34 eythian much more like it 02:34 cjh lol 02:34 eythian post-curry brain 02:35 dcook Mmm curry wednesday 02:36 dcook I might have to rustle myself up some curry... 02:37 jcamins wtf? 02:37 jcamins The ellipsis statement? 02:37 jcamins That's... 02:37 jcamins weird. 02:39 eythian I can see the use though 02:40 cjh oh wow I have never seen that, really neat. 02:41 jcamins Okay, sanity check: scalar @weights = 5 if @weights = ( 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 )? 02:41 eythian yeah 02:42 jcamins Thanks. 02:44 jcamins ... 02:44 jcamins The Schwartzian transform has melted my brain. 02:45 jcamins I've forgotten how to do a for loop. 02:45 eythian map { something } @list; of course 02:49 jcamins Okay, this is confusing. 02:50 jcamins http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=C4/AuthoritiesMarc.pm;h=9ea3b2dbb9c4621406df0ed094e5b8fb64ab5651;hb=HEAD#l1384 02:50 jcamins If I pass undef as the second and fourth arguments, shouldn't that return without doing anything? 02:51 jcamins Or, rather, die completely. 02:51 jcamins Since undef->fields() is undefined. 02:51 eythian I'd expect it to throw a warn 02:51 eythian I don't think it'd return, because the ==0 check will end up as if undef==0 which is false 02:52 jcamins But undef->fields() won't cause a Perl error? 02:52 * jcamins will find out. 02:53 jcamins Can't call method "fields" on an undefined value at -e line 1. 02:53 eythian I don't think it'd cause it to die 02:53 eythian yeah, but that's probably just a warn 02:53 jcamins Hm. 02:53 eythian I might be wrong though 02:53 eythian not totally sure 02:54 jcamins No, I think you're right. 02:54 jcamins I mean, I think you should be wrong, but I think empirically I have evidence that you are rightlz 02:55 cjh perl -e "undef->foo(); print 'made it';" # doesnt print made it 02:57 jcamins Is true greater than false in Perl? 02:57 * jcamins will assign numeric values. 02:57 jcamins Probably safer that way. 02:59 eythian true is non-zero, non-empty 03:00 jcamins What I'm not sure of is whether ('a' eq 'a') > ('a' eq 'b') 03:00 cjh perl -e "print 'yeap' if ((1==1)>(1==0))" 03:00 eythian that'd be true 03:00 eythian because the first would be '1', the second '0' 03:01 cjh perl -e "print 'OH GOD' if ((1==1)<(1==0))" 03:01 eythian wahanui: the singularity is http://i.imgur.com/RMKh9xx.jpg 03:01 wahanui OK, eythian. 03:02 cjh that actually exists :o http://www.olympus-global.com/en/news/2013a/nr130130sz16e.jsp 03:04 eythian actually, my camera has pet mode in it too I think. But it's mostly to make the photo look nicer I expect. 03:04 eythian It does also have a "take a photo when everyone is smiling" function. 03:05 wizzyrea ...cameras do that? 03:05 wizzyrea i haven't had a proper camera in a while :P 03:06 cjh wb. 03:06 eythian I think it even has a smile-graph, so you can wait for it to reach a particular rictus and take the photo then 03:06 eythian mostly I just leave it on the "be pretty smart and do what I want" mode. 03:31 jcamins Cool. New and spectacularly revised deduper works. 03:32 jcamins And it is, if I may say, a super deduper. 03:32 jcamins :D 03:32 * wizzyrea giggles 03:32 wizzyrea ok that was funny 03:32 mtj super dooper deduper? 03:32 wizzyrea and not just because I've been up since 2am 03:32 jcamins I know, right? 03:32 jcamins lol 03:32 jcamins That was an actual good joke from me. 03:33 wizzyrea indeed! 03:33 * jcamins checks to see if armaggedon is upon us. 03:33 wizzyrea @quote add <jcamins> Cool. New and spectacularly revised deduper works. And it is, if I may say, a super deduper. 03:33 huginn` wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. Quote #256 added. 03:33 wizzyrea oh yeahhhhh 03:33 jcamins What's our stance on POD? 03:34 wizzyrea we like it? 03:34 jcamins Do we really put it at the end because it's "faster"? 03:34 wizzyrea oh. that. pass. 03:34 eythian that doesn't actually make sense to me 03:34 jcamins I would like to put my POD inline because then it is easy to understand what the POD is talking about. 03:34 jcamins (IMO) 03:34 jcamins For all my personal projects, that's the way I do it. 03:35 eythian perl has to scan the whole file anyway, in case you have more stuff after the POD at the end 03:35 eythian I guess unless you finish with __END__ 03:35 eythian or whatever it is 03:35 eythian but yeah, inline is better I think 04:00 gmcharlt agreed, inline 04:04 jcamins Good, because that's what I did. 04:14 jcamins And now that I have a nifty new record deduplicator, I am getting some sleep. 04:14 jcamins Good night, #koha. 04:15 dcook night, jcamins 04:15 eythian later 04:18 dcook mtj++ 04:18 dcook Thanks for rebasing that 2nd patch for 10096 04:19 * dcook goes off to grab a late lunch... 04:36 eythian https://plus.google.com/+YonatanZunger/posts/EfmdR6VWvRM <-- cjh 04:37 cjh eythian: I quite like the title http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2013/05/barns-are-painted-red-because-of-the-physics-of-dying-stars/ 04:40 cjh TIL: organic tyrian purple pigment can be made from the snot of the Murex snail 04:46 eythian and that's why toga praetextae were worn by people of rank. 04:47 eythian Did you skip out of your classical education, huh? 05:24 eythian @wunder nzwn 05:24 huginn` eythian: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 9.0°C (5:00 PM NZST on June 05, 2013). Conditions: Light Drizzle. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Rising). 05:25 eythian It seems to be missing the 50-70kph wind 06:37 reiveune hello 06:37 wahanui hi, reiveune 06:45 christophe_c hello #koha 06:56 drojf good morning #koha 06:56 drojf @wunder berlin, germany 06:56 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 15.5°C (8:42 AM CEST on June 05, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady). 07:13 Joubu hello #koha 07:13 kf hi Joubu 07:13 kf :) 07:13 kf and hi #koha! 07:14 gaetan_B hello 07:16 kf hi gaetan_B 07:17 gaetan_B hey kf :) alles klar ? 07:17 kf viel zu tun, aber ja ;) 08:50 samueld hi everybody 08:55 rangi is fridolyn catching up on mail :) 08:57 kf looks like it :) 08:57 kf hi samueld 08:57 rangi hi samueld 08:57 samueld hi kf & rangi 12:19 oleonard Hi #koha 12:28 oleonard Hi kf 12:29 kf hi oleonard 12:56 tomascohen mornin #koha 13:05 Joubu bz is down ? 13:05 oleonard No for me Joubu 13:06 Joubu oleonard: ok ta 13:06 Joubu oleonard: ok thanks, weird! 13:09 Joubu back! :) 13:09 tcohen hi Joubu 13:10 Joubu hi tcohen 13:12 oleonard Why does the course reserves "add item" process ask if you want to change the item type, collection code, etc? 13:12 oleonard Libraries temporarily or permanently change those details when adding them to course reserves? 13:13 jcamins Yes. 13:13 jcamins You'd have course reserves stored in a different part of the library with different loan rules. 13:13 tcohen it makes sense oleonard, as item type is the means to change the circ rules for it 13:14 oleonard All new to me, thanks 13:15 oleonard Does it automatically revert the changes? 13:15 oleonard ...when an item is removed? 13:15 kf oleonard: I think the use case here would be to mark those items temporarily for reference or only allow short loans 13:15 kf so all students of a course get a hcance to do their homework with that important book 13:16 jcamins oleonard: I'd think that the entire point of the course reserves module would be that it would be automatically reset, but... I don't actually know. 13:16 kf tcohen: around? 13:17 kf oleonard: i hope it does, like jcamins said but i haven't tested it yet :( 13:18 tcohen here 13:18 kf @later tell tcohen - could you take a look at bug 9824? The follow ups fix the labels a bit and woudl be nice to have in 3.12 13:18 huginn` kf: The operation succeeded. 13:18 kf oh sory :) 13:19 tcohen hi kf 13:24 nengard does Koha not have a deleted authorities table? 13:24 nengard I'm not seeing one 13:25 oleonard How dare you consider deleting an authority nengard! 13:25 nengard unused authorities goofy boy :) 13:25 nengard we have deleted bibs and deleted items 13:25 nengard how dare you delete those!! 13:25 nengard :) 13:26 jcamins nengard: it does not, no. 13:27 kf sounds like not a bad idea to me 13:27 nengard bug 10417 13:27 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10417 new feature, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , keep deleted authorities 13:27 nengard :) 13:27 kf 10417 already... wow 13:28 jcamins Now if only someone were interested in sponsoring that sort of development, eh? 13:28 oleonard The same deep pockets who are sponsoring the LTS version? 13:29 jcamins oleonard++ # comedy at its best 13:29 oleonard jcamins and kf: removing a changed item from a course reverts the changes you make when adding it 13:29 kf yay :) 13:29 jcamins Hooray! 13:29 kf thx for testing oleonard :) 13:39 kf oleonard++ 13:39 kf for his usual awesomeness 14:03 druthb oleonard++ 14:05 oleonard Thanks druthb :) 14:24 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8584: cleanup_database.pl : Add a DAYS parameter for email purges. <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=68b8b9d7a8e9e52d3ce59b25248df03dd6ec8224> / Bug 7892: Open link to imported record in new tab <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=72157d66886e21354aa754f75530bbec1f11b9e5> / Bug 10015 - UniqueItemFields could have link to database documentation <http://git.koha 14:26 gmcharlt @quote random 14:26 huginn` gmcharlt: Quote #156: "druthb: I would feed wahanui a botsnack of windows 8 engineers, but they're full of fluff and not very filling. trea: like marshmallow peeps, with clip on ties." (added by wizzyrea at 02:09 PM, September 22, 2011) 14:26 * druthb chuckles 14:34 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 766: remove CGI::scrolling_list from request.pl <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=7668e19c9593da570cffb5cd4640fe175d739328> / Bug 10249: Fix untranslatable strings in OPAC detail page <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=787a480626be474afa65737ae37a6c07cad0b1c7> 15:12 mtompset Greetings, #koha. 15:12 druthb Hi, mtompset! 15:12 mtompset Greetings, druthb. 15:12 mtompset I'm still fighting the "How do sessions work?" problem in Koha. 15:13 mtompset Because just when I think I have a piece of code that should limp into working and should never see the light of day... it doesn't set the session up like I expect. :( 15:16 tcohen hi mtompset 15:16 mtompset Greetings, tcohen. 15:17 jcamins mtompset: ah, yep. I see your problem. It's the fourth word in your question. 15:18 mtompset Are you stating that sessions is the wrong word, or that you agree sessions are a big pain? 15:18 jcamins No, I'm saying that "work" is overly strong. :P 15:18 mtompset fine, function? :P 15:19 pianohacker they're balanced on the precipice of "too crappy to like, not crappy enough to fix" 15:21 mtompset All I want is to get a bunch of values pushed into the DB nicely. 15:22 mtompset So that the code doesn't think the session is timedout and goes into an infinite loop of click-me to loop bliss. 15:23 * druthb drags around the conference center One More Day 15:26 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8600: (followup) remove debug logging statement <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=73535cb1120ddb1c1c0fb8f1568cc4da51903a25> / Bug 8600: can now remove search input fields in OPAC advanced search form <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=0d6bd380ba644ce2cf36a40edbfa5e231e1e19ab> 15:28 mtompset session->flush! 15:28 mtompset I think that might be it. 15:28 mtompset DUH! 15:30 mtompset Nope. :( 15:46 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 9549: Show local cover images in the OPAC shelf browser <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=bebff403f235c0694ce0faf180e30e5e99d00032> 16:09 oleonard "universal web share icon?" Is that really a thing? http://www.flickr.com/photos/trufflemedia/3137787741/ 16:10 * oleonard wonders how recognizable that really is 16:10 jcamins Never seen it before. 16:10 jcamins Apparently it's the logo of ShareThis(R). 16:11 * pianohacker discounts less and less every day that the original authors of the admin interface were on crack 16:11 rhcl looks like freenode just died 16:12 rhcl and now it's back 16:12 jcamins rhcl: they've been netsplitting like crazy. 16:12 rhcl yea, saw that yesterday, and they sent out a tech msg too 16:12 gmcharlt I get the impression they've been subject to an unusually high number of DOS attacks recently 16:12 rhcl it's unusual to see the actual server die, however 16:12 * oleonard would prefer that the "share" button have a nice style: http://screencast.com/t/0LubG8LSbsYN 16:13 * oleonard is testing Bug 9032 16:13 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9032 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Needs Signoff , Share a list (part 1: send the invitation) 16:13 gmcharlt oleonard: I've seen it before ... but universal? not sure about that 16:15 * gmcharlt doesn't have any suggestions for a more universal option, though 16:15 gmcharlt nor any objections to using that icon 16:16 oleonard Hm, the Tango Desktop Project seems to be dead 16:25 gaetan_B bye 16:30 tcohen on android everything related to the action of "sharing" has that icon 16:31 jcamins tcohen: really? Huh. 16:31 jcamins I have an android phone and never noticed it. 16:31 * jcamins goes looking for the phone. 16:32 tcohen or an app from play, or something from flipboard 16:33 reiveune bye 17:05 tcohen gmcharlt: I think you found a previous bug, as I copied what was already done in Auth.pm (bug 9735) 17:05 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9735 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Failed QA , Choose language using URL parameters in any page 17:05 gmcharlt tcohen: I don't think it's a bug, actually, but only by accident 17:06 gmcharlt i.e., CGI.pm will accept either a scalar (for a single cookie) or a flat arrayref 17:06 tcohen see Auth.pm:275 17:07 gmcharlt right, but that's the *only* spot that does it 17:07 gmcharlt at least in C4::aUTH 17:09 gmcharlt to clarify -- I do think that when the OPAC search history patch was written, it should have explicitly iniitaliized an array(ref) to keep the list of cookies 17:09 tcohen I should push it then 17:10 gmcharlt rather than doing the $cookie = [$cookie, $newcookie] form 17:10 gmcharlt tcohen: push what? 17:10 tcohen the new languagecookie into the cookie array 17:10 gmcharlt ah, right 17:10 gmcharlt (although at that point in the code, $cookie could either be a scalar *or* a listref) 17:11 gmcharlt so you'd either have to test for both cases, or do a bit of cleanup 17:17 tcohen gmcharlt: the cookie method returns an arrayref? 17:17 tcohen listref 17:18 gmcharlt tcohen: $cgi->cookie('foo') just returns a scalar 17:21 jcamins tcohen: Esta tierra es mia... does that refer to the planet or a garden (for example)? 17:21 tcohen maybe both, I suggest the second 17:22 jcamins Thanks. 17:22 tcohen what are u reading jcamins ? 17:22 jcamins In English the second made sense, but I wanted to check that it would in Spanish too. :) 17:22 jcamins Film posters! 17:23 jcamins This is a Russian poster for an Argentinian film. 17:23 gmcharlt jcamins: so we don't have to recognize you as the Planetary Emporer just yet? ;) 17:23 jcamins gmcharlt: hmmm... I guess not yet. 17:23 tcohen "land" 17:24 tcohen I'd translate as 'land' 17:25 rgoldman are there 3rd party consultants who'll import athena records to a new koha instance - cataloged somewhere? 17:25 Brooke 0/ 17:25 jcamins support? 17:25 wahanui support is found at http://koha-community.org/support/ 17:25 jcamins support vendors? 17:26 jcamins paid support? 17:26 wahanui please see http://koha-community.org/support/paid-support/ for a list of paid Koha support vendors. 17:26 rgoldman ty 17:26 jcamins ^^ there is an incomplete list of Koha support vendors. 17:26 Brooke Life support? 17:26 wahanui Life support is, like, See Brooke for AED/CPR FPR 17:26 gmcharlt heh 17:27 rgoldman ok. any warning about using debian install and repo for ubuntu lts? 17:27 jcamins rgoldman: just that you should absolutely be using packages and not the tgz. 17:28 jcamins They'll work absolutely fine. 17:28 rgoldman TY jcamins. all set then. 17:29 jcamins Oh, there's a meeting in a half hour? 17:30 oleonard Another unreminded meeting. 17:30 drojf you got half an hour to send a reminder :P 17:34 oleonard What was the big deal we didn't vote on last time because no one was around? 17:34 gmcharlt version numbers? 17:35 jcamins Yeah. 17:35 tweetbot [off] twitter: @gmcharlt: "General Koha IRC meeting is starting in just under half an hour. http://t.co/HUiEu7CQmg #KohaILS" 17:35 jcamins And please note I am not presenting the proposal. 17:35 jcamins I put it on the stupid agenda because people seemed to think it mattered at all. 17:35 jcamins (the agenda was not stupid prior to its addition, of course) 17:36 * oleonard can tell jcamins is excited about the whole idea 17:36 jcamins lol 17:36 * gmcharlt thinks that folks who are actively advocating for a position, or for discussion or votes, should be the ones to put things on the agenda 17:36 jcamins Right. 17:36 tcohen what's the meeting about? 17:36 gmcharlt if a given idea doesn't have a champion who is invested enough to at least do that, perhaps it doesn't belong 17:36 jcamins gmcharlt: if I hadn't been RM, I would've just unsubscribed from koha-devel. 17:37 jcamins Since I was RM, I said "I'll put it on the agenda, now stop bothering me." 17:37 gmcharlt tcohen: just a general one 17:37 gmcharlt agenda at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_5_June_2013 17:38 tcohen we should ask badPaul to make the proposal 17:38 jcamins His time is too valuable. 17:39 tcohen the only thing I care and no other cares is the debian packages naming 17:39 tcohen :-P 17:41 tcohen gmcharlt: would CGI.pm flaten an listref containing only one cookie? (looking for the simplest way of handling this) 17:42 gmcharlt tcohen: yes, that woudl work as far as CGI.pm is concerned 17:42 gmcharlt one caveat: there is likely some random code scattered throughout that tries to do stuff with the $cookie returned by get_template_and_user 17:43 gmcharlt hmm 17:43 tcohen I'll add a check and return the scalar then 17:44 tcohen that's source for other troubles, right? 17:45 gmcharlt potentially, yes 17:46 * tcohen meant already present potential problems 17:47 gmcharlt tcohen: yeah, I have a nasty feeling that I've opened up a mare's nest underneath you 17:47 gmcharlt sorry about that 17:48 * Brooke gets the horsemeat grinder out... 17:48 tcohen I'll provide a followup for this specific bug, and do some research through the code 17:49 gmcharlt great 17:49 tcohen this looks ugly, right?: ref($cookie) eq 'ARRAY' 17:49 jcamins Usually one doesn't use parentheses with ref. 17:50 gmcharlt other than the parentheses, while it may be ugly, it's canonical ugliness ;) 17:51 * Brooke is non canonically appealing. 17:51 * mtompset continues to bash his brains against the sessionID cookie authentication madness he is tinkering with. 17:52 pianohacker 'sub isarrayref { eval { @{ shift } }; return $@ }' 17:52 gmcharlt heh 17:53 mtompset Umm... why that ugly function... isn't there a ref($shift) eq 'ARRAY' type check? 17:53 jcamins lol 17:53 pianohacker curses, !$@ 17:53 pianohacker mtompset: yes, absolutely 17:53 pianohacker this gets you more perl hacker points though 17:53 jcamins pianohacker++ # "curses, !$@" may be the greatest line ever 17:53 tcohen pianohacker++ 17:54 gmcharlt Tim Toady -- the game whereby you can faintly disturb any YAPH on a whim 17:54 pianohacker hehe 17:55 pianohacker when your code looks like Popeye dialog, you're having a Perl kind of day 18:00 Brooke uguuguguguug 18:01 Brooke ooooh Kiwis 18:01 JDatTeTakere Sleepy Kiwis. Only 6am. 18:01 Brooke that's why I'm ooohing and ahhing ;) 18:02 tcohen gmcharlt: would you take a look at the followup? 18:03 gmcharlt sure 18:03 JDatTeTakere Too cold to get up and make coffee in Levin, NZ 18:04 Brooke you should get a Yank What Does. I've heard they come cheap in the 'Nua 18:04 JDatTeTakere A Yank what does? 18:05 gmcharlt #startmeeting Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013 18:05 huginn` Meeting started Wed Jun 5 18:05:20 2013 UTC. The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:05 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 18:05 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'koha_general_meeting__5_june_2013' 18:05 gmcharlt #info agenda is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_5_June_2013 18:05 gmcharlt #topic Introductions 18:05 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 18:06 gmcharlt #info Galen Charlton, Equinox Software, 3.14 RM 18:06 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 18:06 nancyk #info nancyk Washoe County Library System KohaCon13 Chair 18:06 tcohen #info Tomás Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Córdoba, Argentina 18:06 jwagner #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS 18:06 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries 18:06 JDatTeTakere info#Joanne Dillon (JD) at TeTakere, Levin, NZ 18:06 jcamins #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services, and (past) RM for 3.12 18:06 mduncan #info Margo Duncan, University of Texas at Tyler, Muntz Library 18:06 pianohacker #info Jesse Weaver, ByWater Solutions 18:07 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin 18:07 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand 18:08 gmcharlt ko 18:08 gmcharlt ok 18:08 gmcharlt #topic Announcements 18:08 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ 18:08 gmcharlt two minutes for folks to chime in with Koha-related annoucnements 18:09 jcamins #info 3.12.0 was released on May 19 18:09 edveal #info Ed Veal, ByWater 18:09 cait jcamins++ :) 18:10 gmcharlt jcamins++ 18:10 gmcharlt #topic Update on Koha 3.8 18:11 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett, Canada 18:11 gmcharlt #info Koha 3.8.13 was released on 2013-05-23 18:11 Brooke thanks folks that contributed we <3 you 18:11 rhcl #info rhcl = Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library (I'm just here to watch the big dogs) 18:12 gmcharlt 3.8.13 was rangi's last release as 3.8 RMaint 18:12 gmcharlt rangi++ 18:12 tcohen UNC <3 3.8.x and rangis' work 18:12 tcohen rangi++ 18:12 cait rangi++ :) 18:12 gmcharlt cjh is now the current 3.8 RMaint 18:13 gmcharlt looks like his nick is idling, so I'll move on 18:13 gmcharlt #topic Update on Koha 3.10 18:13 gmcharlt #info Koha 3.10.6 was released on 2013-05-23 18:14 gmcharlt 3.10.6 was rangi's last release as 3.10 RMaint 18:14 gmcharlt rangi++ # I'm sensing a pattern here 18:14 cait rangi++ :) no surprise 18:14 gmcharlt and bgkriegel is the current RMaint for 3.10 18:15 gmcharlt and is not here, so... 18:15 mtompset rangi++ 18:15 gmcharlt #topic Update on Koha 3.12 18:15 tcohen wait 18:15 gmcharlt hmm? 18:15 tcohen bug 10367 was pushed by eythian during packages build 18:15 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10367 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Stable , Allow packages to work on debian wheezy 18:15 tcohen post-release 18:16 tcohen for both 3.10 and 3.12 18:16 tcohen to support debian wheezy 18:16 tcohen just wanted to note that 18:17 gmcharlt #info 3.12.0 was released on 2013-05-19 18:17 gmcharlt jcamins: any parting comments? 18:17 jcamins I don't think so. 18:17 jcamins I think we came together to produce a nice, stable release. 18:17 jcamins And, well done all. 18:17 tcohen jcamins++ 18:17 gmcharlt jcamins++ 18:17 oleonard all++ 18:18 cait jcamins++ :) 18:18 gmcharlt tcohen: any comments regarding the upcoming 3.12.1? 18:18 mtompset nice PDF release notes. :) 18:18 mtompset jcamins++ 18:19 bag #info Brendan Gallagher, ByWater 18:19 tcohen 3.no comments now 18:19 tcohen sorry 18:19 gmcharlt no problem 18:19 tcohen I want to say I'll do my best 18:19 gmcharlt moving on 18:19 gmcharlt #topic Update on Koha 3.14 18:20 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt has started pushing patches 18:20 cait yay! 18:20 drojf are we there yet? 18:20 gmcharlt #info biggest one so far is one implementing a course reserves feature 18:21 gmcharlt #info We need more folks testing and signing off on patches 18:21 * cait agrees with gmcharlt 18:22 cait and please if you can run the test suite 18:22 cait and take a look at the coding guidelines :) 18:22 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt will be starting conversations with the folks who thus far have expressed interest in being module maintainers 18:23 gmcharlt any questions? 18:23 tcohen how many module mantainers have postulated? 18:23 gmcharlt I think two, maybe three people have expressed interest 18:24 cait could you summarize quickly what the task of the module maintainers will be? 18:24 gmcharlt yes 18:24 gmcharlt a module maintainer would be somebody who is expert in a module and who takes responsibility for maintaining a tree of vetted patches related to that module 18:25 gmcharlt and (ideally) who also takes some responsibility for wrangling bugs related to that module 18:25 gmcharlt as well as doing QA for that module 18:25 oleonard "maintaining a tree of vetted patches?" 18:25 gmcharlt my idea is ultimately that the RM would be able to start pulling branches from the module maintainer's trees 18:25 cait same question here 18:26 gmcharlt rather than focusing on each and every bug that passes QA 18:26 tcohen a benevolent dictator 18:26 gmcharlt and even longer-term goal, depending on how things work out, is that module maintainers would get the ability to push directly to master for patches related to their modules 18:27 pianohacker gmcharlt: linux-ish setup? 18:27 gmcharlt pianohacker: yes 18:27 Brooke gmcharlt++ 18:27 pianohacker sounds like a good plan 18:28 gmcharlt a good experiment, I hope, at least 18:28 tcohen gmcharlt++ 18:29 pianohacker gmcharlt: is there any listing/volunteer page for module maintainers? 18:29 gmcharlt pianohacker: not yet; I'll need to trawl through the list archives 18:29 gmcharlt to set one up 18:29 gmcharlt folks who are intersted can also contact me directly, of course 18:29 pianohacker okay, just curious 18:30 gmcharlt any other questions regarding 3.14? 18:31 tweetbot [off] twitter: @kohails: "#KohaILS Refonte complète du site de Pikoloco http://t.co/sG2tKik0du" 18:31 tcohen no quesitons here 18:31 gmcharlt ok, moving on 18:31 gmcharlt #topic KohaCon 2013 18:31 nancyk Koha reservation page has been fixed, thanks to Liz 18:32 nancyk Call for sponsors is going out later today, as are presentation confirmations 18:32 cait nancyk++ 18:32 nancyk Digital flier inviting people to the conference will be out next week 18:32 nancyk Anyone have any questions or suggestions? 18:33 gmcharlt #info Koha reservation page has been fixed, thanks to Liz; Call for sponsors is going out later today, as are presentation confirmations; Digital flier inviting people to the conference will be out next week; 18:33 thd To whom is the digital flier being sent? 18:33 cait nancyk: thx for all your work, really looking forward to kohacon :) 18:34 nancyk thanks 18:34 nancyk Fliers will go to library groups, and anywhere I can get them 18:34 tcohen nancyk: how is the room reservation count going? did we reach the goal? 18:34 nancyk Things are moving along very well 18:35 nancyk We have 64 registered, but not at the hotel yet 18:35 nancyk Some are waiting for their fiscal year to turn over 18:35 nancyk that's all for now 18:36 gmcharlt nancyk++ 18:36 cait nancyk++ 18:36 tcohen nancyk++ 18:36 thd nancyk: What address can be used to confirm registrations? 18:37 nancyk I am sending them out personally, so everyone should have one as of today. Use my email for probs 18:37 nancyk nkeener@washoecounty.us 18:37 gmcharlt #topic KohaCon 2014 18:38 gmcharlt on the agenda there's a question about whether we've sent out a call for potential host sites 18:38 gmcharlt I don't think it has, so who wants to volunteer to put out a call for proposals to host KohaCon in 2014? 18:40 drojf i can do that. probably not today but in the next days# 18:40 gmcharlt #action drojf will put out a call for proposals to host KohaCon in 2014 18:40 cait drojf++ 18:40 gmcharlt moving on 18:40 gmcharlt #topic Version numbering 18:41 gmcharlt does anybody wish to adopt this agenda item? 18:42 pianohacker everyone has an opinion, nobody wants to take responsibility for starting the discussion 18:42 thd I just want the question to be clear. 18:42 oleonard http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_5_June_2013 18:43 oleonard If no one wants to raise the issue and advocate the position I suggest we move on. 18:43 thd pianohacker: The discussion has been had at more length than many thought worthwhile. 18:43 pianohacker thd: Yeah, that was my understanding. Bikeshedded 18:43 cait so can we move on? :) 18:43 pianohacker yup, vote to move on 18:44 gmcharlt admittedly, this only delays the question -- but I suggest that version number questions be restricted to the period when roles for the next release are being considered 18:44 thd oleonard: If we move on then how has the issue been settled or has the issue been dropped? 18:44 oleonard thd: With no one here to advocate for a change there is no reason to discuss it 18:45 drojf thd: put it on the agenda for another meeting and it is back. i guess 18:45 pianohacker so dropped, with the release after pi continuing the trend and being 3.16 18:45 cait we are going to have 3.14 (codename pi) 18:45 jcamins pianohacker: or, more precisely, dropped and no decision made. There has been no solid proposal, just a lot of paint. 18:45 gmcharlt pianohacker: I'd say the question is dropped for now, with the question of how to number the next release after 3.14 to be decided during the election period 18:46 pianohacker gmcharlt: Sounds good, let's throw that on the minutes 18:46 tcohen +1 # gmcharlt's proposal 18:46 cait +1 18:46 thd oleonard: As posted on the wiki agenda the issue was only to vote on a question which had already been discussed at length already on the mailing list. 18:47 oleonard +1 # gmcharlt's proposal 18:47 thd +1 # gmcharlt postponing the dullest question ever 18:47 gmcharlt #agreed Any decision on the question of how to number the version of Koha following 3.14 is deferred to the project role election period 18:49 gmcharlt #topic Action items from the 7 May 2013 meeting 18:49 gmcharlt #info ifrst action item is Test all the things! 18:49 gmcharlt so, have all the things been tested? 18:49 gmcharlt no? 18:49 wahanui http://i.imgur.com/hVVuP.jpg 18:49 * cait reports that more testing is needed 18:49 gmcharlt cait++ 18:50 cait Test all the things! 18:50 tcohen test coverage should be improved 18:51 gmcharlt there was also an action item for BobB to test reserves 18:51 gmcharlt BobB: anything to report? 18:52 cait hm wrong time I think 18:52 gmcharlt yep 18:52 gmcharlt so moving on 18:52 gmcharlt #topic Decide time of next meeting 18:53 gmcharlt going by our normal cycle, I think that would be Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:53 davidnind Time for next meeting would be 10:00 UTC 18:53 tcohen is there a kohacon13 planning meeting soon? 18:53 thd Wed 3 is too soon after ALA 18:54 nancyk 26th of june 18UTC for KohaCon 13 planning 18:54 thd I suggest Wed. 10 July. 18:55 gmcharlt #info Next KohaCon 13 planning meeting is on 26 June 2013 at 18UTC 18:55 oleonard Either is fine with me, I don't object to the 10th. 18:55 gmcharlt ditto 18:56 gmcharlt OK, so +1/-1 for Wednesday, 10 July 2013 at 10:00 UTC+0 ? 18:56 tcohen +1 18:56 oleonard +1 18:56 cait +1 18:56 thd +1 18:56 davidnind +1 18:56 drojf +1 18:56 mtompset +1 18:57 JDatTeTakere +1 18:57 gmcharlt #agreed Next general meeting wlll be held on Wednesday, 10 July 2013 at 10:00 UTC+0 18:57 gmcharlt and ... we've run out of agenda items! 18:57 tcohen do we have a calendar@google for koha stufF? 18:58 mtompset I'm assuming to help co-ordinate various meetings, right, tcohen? 18:58 thd tcohen: If we did that would not be a free software calendar. 18:58 * tcohen hides 18:59 tcohen I belive we could have such a tool, maybe a hosted one 18:59 mtompset If the purpose it to co-ordinate meetings, it wouldn't have to be google. The point is a generally shared calendar. 18:59 tcohen nevermind,if I come up with a proposal, I'll make it 18:59 drojf do whatever you like on google, don't make it in any way obligatory for me to use it 18:59 gmcharlt I agree that some sort of calendar would be nice 18:59 thd tcohen: I would suggest creating a comprehensive calendar page at wiki.koha-community.org instead. 18:59 oleonard MediaWiki plugin? 18:59 gmcharlt tcohen: perhaps talk with wizzyrea? 18:59 tcohen i'll do it 19:00 tcohen touche drojf 19:00 cait i think we have a calendar on the kc-website 19:00 cait we just don't use it very often 19:00 drojf heh 19:00 gmcharlt cait: yeah, I vaguely remember that 19:00 gmcharlt :/ 19:00 gmcharlt OK, thanks folks! 19:00 gmcharlt #endmeeting 19:00 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Jun 5 19:00:46 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 19:00 huginn` Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/koha_general_meeting__5_june_2013.2013-06-05-18.05.html 19:00 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/koha_general_meeting__5_june_2013.2013-06-05-18.05.txt 19:00 huginn` Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/koha_general_meeting__5_june_2013.2013-06-05-18.05.log.html 19:01 davidnind gmcharlt++ 19:01 cait gmcharlt++ 19:02 thd tcohen: As drojf stated anyone is free to start a calendar anywhere but we may already have some community resources which should serve the purpose. 19:03 mtompset I couldn't see a calendar, as I would expect a calendar, but I do see an "Events" section. 19:03 tcohen thd: if we have that resources, I'll try to focus on that for my proposal 19:03 tcohen i mentioned google calendar as i use it for my personal stuff 19:03 tcohen but agree is not the best approach 19:04 tcohen bye #Koha 19:05 thd tcohen: We have moved away from dependencies on non-free software from Google which we have had at one time. Google has a bad habit of dropping or changing features and as their implementations are not generally free software we cannot simply fork their proprietary products. 19:06 pianohacker see greader 19:07 thd s/dependencies/relying upon/ 19:07 jcamins Fortunately before he left tcohen indicated that he would look into the community's existing unused calendar tools. 19:07 oleonard And fortunately before he left he agreed that Google Calendar wasn't the best approach 19:07 drojf i have offered to end friendships for putting my data into google calendar ;) 19:08 thd :) 19:09 drojf do we still do the unwritten "not two times in a row on the same continent" thing for kohacon? 19:09 oleonard I assume so 19:09 jcamins Yes. 19:09 jcamins I think it was even written somewhere. 19:11 gmcharlt http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Conference_Bidding woudl be the closest 19:11 gmcharlt which suggests yes, different continent 19:12 gmcharlt but (at least as written) doesn't settle on a 4 vs. 6 approach 19:12 cait 4 vs 6 19:12 cait ? 19:13 cait hm it has a note at the top: N.B. This is a proposal / request for comment, it is not the will of the Community. (Yet. Bend! I has chocolate!) 19:13 gmcharlt indeed 19:13 gmcharlt maybe it's a small question? 19:13 cait i think maybe avoid the same in twice in a row 19:13 * gmcharlt favors 6 (or even 7, if somebody figured out a way to subsidize folk's travel to Antarctica) 19:14 cait and it's always going to matter who offers to host 19:14 * jcamins would favor 6. 19:14 jcamins But doesn't actually care. 19:14 * oleonard would not favor a hackfest which required the wearing of mittens 19:15 pianohacker If only because it reflects a desire to spread the travel pain around, definitely 6 19:15 pianohacker toronto is a long way from buenos aires 19:15 gmcharlt yeah, lumping North and South America together would be a bit weird 19:16 pianohacker what else would you put together, though? 19:17 gmcharlt that's might point, I wouldn't lump 19:17 gmcharlt *my point 19:17 cait europe has the disadvantage of too many countries in not a lot of space... hard for everyone to get a turn ;) 19:19 drojf yes, we deserve to be regarded as several continents ;) 19:19 tweetbot [off] twitter: @gmcharlt: "The minutes of the #KohaILS general meeting that just finished can be found at http://t.co/nzQ9DiR3Gf" 19:20 jcamins drojf: the beer continent, the cheese continent, and the salted taffey continent? 19:20 jcamins Or salted licorice. 19:21 * oleonard shudders 19:21 jcamins oleonard: it's called salmiak. 19:22 * jcamins learned this from #evergreen. 19:23 drojf and it's lovely 19:24 jcamins drojf: apparently it's very polarizing. 19:24 oleonard What directory are plugins uploaded to? 19:25 drojf jcamins: this is polarizing ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmiakki_Koskenkorva 19:26 jcamins drojf: wow. That is. 19:26 jcamins oleonard: the directory set in koha-conf.xml. 19:26 drojf we should have kohacon in finland ;) 19:27 rhcl Thailand 19:27 tweetbot [off] twitter: @gmcharlt: "The next Koha general meeting is scheduled for 10 July 2013 at 10:00 UTC #KohaILS" 19:27 oleonard Thanks jcamins 19:28 jcamins There's an Evergreen library in Finland. Not sure I know of any Koha libraries in Finland (not that this means there aren't). 19:28 rhcl nobody has talked recently of having a joint EG-Koha conference 19:29 jcamins rhcl: it would be incumbent on someone proposing to coordinate that. 19:29 rhcl above my pay grade 19:33 oleonard Coding guideline note: If you add a class to something in the template because you want it to look different, make sure that class exists in the CSS 19:33 jcamins oleonard: maybe the class was just to make it possible to customize in the future? 19:34 oleonard Or maybe it was because I typed a class I thought existed but didn't? 19:34 jcamins Or that. 19:43 pianohacker oleonard: no no go for the omniscient, forward-planning defence 19:45 * oleonard hops in his time machine and sets it for the future 19:45 * cait has mac n cheese yay! 20:07 tweetbot [off] twitter: @ranginui: "@Vickiteal i read your minutes, there are lots of inhouse developers for libraries using #KohaILS and they do not just do bug fixes" 20:07 cait now i wonder about the minutes :) 20:09 jcamins Me too! 20:09 cait we are too curious for our own good 20:09 rangi lol 20:09 rangi 2 secs 20:10 rangi [off] http://www.scls.info/committees/ic/minutes/2013-04-03.pdf 20:10 rangi talking about hiring an in house developer 20:10 rangi apparently no ll libs do it, and community ones only ever do bugfixes 20:11 mtompset pianohacker: Alaska and Canada, because Alaska is an island in the middle of nowhere. ;) 20:11 rangi apparently marcelr, tcohen, oleonard (and all the ones i missed) dont exist 20:12 jcamins I think Mathieu would be a little insulted. 20:12 rangi oh yes mathieu too 20:12 cait do i have to read the whole thing? 20:12 cait or will you give a hint? 20:12 jcamins Wait, really? 20:13 jcamins 3 upgrades a year is a lot? 20:13 rangi heh 20:13 rangi about page 3 cait 20:13 cait in ils world yes 20:13 cait found it 20:13 cait thx :) 20:13 jcamins cait: I don't know, my stance is that minor updates should be *so* minor that you can have them monthly. 20:14 rangi oh dobrica 20:14 jcamins Yes, Dobrica. 20:14 rangi theres tons! 20:14 rangi eggs 20:14 rangi if thats the level of research the librarians there can do, .... 20:14 rangi anyway, i just felt i needed to point out that it was wrong 20:15 rangi maybe ill do a blog post 20:15 cait rangi: does it really matter? they are not using 'community koha' 20:15 rhcl [off]somehow I thought Project Pioneer (Nebraska) was going to migrate to Koha 20:15 jcamins Wow, what a weird word: ЛуÑии 20:15 cait lucy? 20:15 jcamins (It's "Lucia" as in "Saint Lucia") 20:15 cait aah 20:16 jcamins cait: but it looks totally wrong as an ordinary nominative noun! It's just sitting there going "hey, what? You thought I was Russian?" 20:16 rangi [off] rhcl off the fork to actual koha? 20:16 cait lol 20:16 rhcl rangi: yes 20:16 rangi [off] i havent heard anythign like that, you may have better sources than me 20:17 rhcl yea, we were up to talk to them a couple of years ago 20:17 rangi cait: it does when they are saying things about koha 20:17 jcamins [off] Someone at Project Pioneer was asking about that, but I never heard anything beyond a single initial question a while (very long while?) ago. 20:17 * drojf claims kind-of-an-inhouse-programmer status ^^ 20:17 cait rangi: yeah adding to the confusion :( 20:18 rangi right time to take kids to school bbiab 20:18 cait drojf: you are totally :) 20:18 cait can I count too? bsz's own library also uses koha :) 20:18 cait hehe 20:18 jcamins [off] I want to say that about two years ago someone asked about the complexity of the migration, and I told them to talk to ByWater 'cause I wasn't interested. 20:18 drojf yay we are legion ;) 20:19 jcamins drojf: well done! That phrase gives a lot of non-native English speakers trouble. 20:20 drojf ?? 20:20 jcamins "We are legion." 20:21 jcamins A lot of people think it's "We are legions" because "legion" is a singular noun. 20:21 drojf i think anonymous fixed that ;) 20:21 jcamins True of native English speakers as well, actually. 20:21 drojf you can actually say it in german too, but it is not used very often 20:23 tweetbot [off] twitter: @ranginui: "@Vickiteal oh i forgot dobrica too, short answer i think about 6 libraries (at least) have an inhouse #KohaILS developer" 20:24 cait :) 20:43 mtompset legion?! Is there a demonic possession somewhere? ;) 20:43 tcohen we had a legion 20:44 tcohen "The legion" 20:44 tcohen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina_Davis_Cup_team 20:45 mtompset Ah... tennis team. 20:46 tcohen also an infamous legion 20:50 mtompset YES! YES! YES! 20:50 mtompset I have gotten a link to fake login as me! 20:51 mtompset Now to rip out the fake login as me and put in a login in as someone real. 20:51 gmcharlt mtompset: what are you up to, anyway? 20:51 tcohen shibboleth 20:51 mtompset Okay... I've set up simple saml php... 20:52 mtompset I've got it working to test against OpenIDP 20:52 mtompset I have hacked koha to redirect to a php script I created from a copy of authenticate.php 20:52 mtompset which then calls a backchannel perl script. 20:52 mtompset and then redirects to the OPAC 20:53 mtompset I started this work based on biblibre's shibboleth hack. 20:54 mtompset Though, I think this could get integrated as a RESTFUL Login API . 20:54 tcohen do u think it is possible to do it using oerl? 20:54 tcohen perl? 20:54 wahanui perl is, like, different things to different people 20:55 mtompset Do what simplesamlphp does in perl? 20:55 mtompset Mmmmm.... I'm not going to try, if this passing stuff works. 20:55 tcohen do what that php script does 20:55 mtompset first, it does the saml authentication to the source. 20:56 mtompset upon successful authentication, it calls a "backchannel" script which sets up the user session information and returns the session id, the php script then puts the session id into the cookie and redirects to the OPAC. 20:58 mtompset I've been working off a HTML page just to avoid the session cookie from being tinkered with... but now that the link on the testing HTML page works... I can try to set it up in my hacked up OPAC and confirm it works. :) 20:59 tcohen great mtompset, congratulations 20:59 mtompset the backchannel script is currently called POST with the attributes returned by the authentication source yaml-ized. 20:59 mtompset I have code to de-yaml-ize it, and map it like the ldap stuff. 21:00 mtompset So, the login by email equivalent, except using simplesamlphp (or whatever other authenticating system), should follow from this. 21:23 gmcharlt mtompset: I know next to nothing about Shibboleth -- is it a thing with it that PHP is either required, or at least it is much easier to support using PHP? 21:24 mtompset SimpleSAMLPHP provides Shibboleth 1.3 and SAML 2.0 support rather easily, and it is available as a package under Ubuntu. I have yet to confirm it is under Debian, but I would suspect it is. 21:25 mtompset The PHP authentication hacked script I have would need to be written for the users context, but I am assuming that is do-able. 21:25 mtompset The Perl side of it will do the translation of the authenticated attributes and do the log in into Koha. 21:26 mtompset Effectively, the perl-side becomes a REST-ful API for logging in. 21:27 mtompset I still have to work out the log out part... but right now, that is low priority. :) 21:27 gmcharlt a la /svc/authentication? :) 21:27 pianohacker svc++ 21:27 mtompset Yes, but this doesn't pass a username and password. :P 21:28 pianohacker extend 'er to then 21:29 mtompset Because, unless the SAML was implemented in Perl, you won't know the password... uid is, however, a typical attribute you likely will know, as it email address. 21:29 mtompset ^it^is^ 21:31 gmcharlt what about Net::SAML? 21:31 mtompset I was concerned about licensing issues, and bug fixes if it is broken, etc. etc. 21:31 mtompset SimpleSAMLPHP externally is much more active. 21:32 mtompset Net::SAML and Net::SAML2 have bad reps. :) 21:33 tcohen besides the simplesamlphp idp, why do u need to hack php? 21:34 mtompset Also, gmcharlt, svc/authentication doesn't add users. 21:34 mtompset To pass back the attributes to perl. 21:36 mtompset The SAML processing is done in the PHP, not Perl. 21:37 wizzyrea pianohacker++ 21:37 wizzyrea so glad you're back. 21:37 pianohacker thanks, wizzyrea 21:37 pianohacker good to be back :) 21:38 tcohen wizzyrea: is it possible to have a calendar on k-c.org? 21:38 mtompset I was just thinking that, tcohen. ;) 21:38 wizzyrea for what purpose :) 21:39 wizzyrea (the answer is yes0 21:39 wizzyrea anything is possible 21:39 tcohen 1) graphical visualization of important Koha dates 21:39 tcohen 2) ical or something compatible, to have it on our smartphones or any gadget we have 21:40 mtompset (translation team meetings, general meetings, annual conference dates, etc.) 21:41 tcohen (string freeze, feature freeze, release dates, etc) 21:41 wizzyrea any other requirements? 21:41 tcohen i got hammered for proposing using evil calendar 21:41 jcamins 3) so people know what to have for dinner, in case they forget that pizza is for dinner on Fridays, etc. 21:43 cait :) 21:43 cait tcohen: you live :) 21:44 tcohen :D 21:44 wizzyrea oh I don't bother saying the g word anymore 21:45 wizzyrea i use it for mail, youtube, and a little plus and that's about it. 21:47 tcohen i depend on the calendar @ work, don't forget my memory fades, as I'm 122 21:47 cait didn't you already turn 123? 21:47 tcohen that'd be 18th june 21:48 pianohacker jcamins: as a college student I can authoritatively state that pizza is for every dinner 21:48 pianohacker once thanks to a bunch of presentations I had pizza 4 days in a row 21:48 pianohacker that was... entertaining 21:48 jcamins pianohacker: yeah, but it's an international phenomenon in #koha. 21:48 jcamins Ugh. I can't see the screen the glare is so bad. 21:48 mtompset Close your eyes. The reason will change. :P 21:49 jcamins I suppose it will. 21:49 mtompset I thought fish was on Fridays? Why Pizza? 21:50 jcamins mtompset: because magnuse makes pizza sound delicious. 21:51 mtompset But I though cookies were delicious. :P 21:51 mtompset ^though^thought^ 21:52 pianohacker quick git trivia question; is there any way to update master to origin/master when master isn't checked out? 21:52 jcamins Aren't they both? 21:52 tcohen rangi: did you arrange this to have access to a big kitchen @ reno? 21:52 jcamins pianohacker: not that I know of. You're going to have to check out master at some point. 21:52 pianohacker jcamins: Curses! An extra second in my workflow! :) 21:53 gmcharlt pianohacker: you're not a Culture Ship Mind, you can take it ;) 21:53 tcohen doesn't git pull do that? 21:54 gmcharlt tcohen: no; git pull == git fetch + git merge 21:54 pianohacker hehe 21:54 gmcharlt but git merge is done on the current, checked-out branch 21:54 mtompset Goodness... I knew that. :P 21:54 tcohen i miss understood the question 21:55 pianohacker tcohen: I have branch "potato" checked out, was wondering if there was a way to update "master" to "origin/master" without checking out "master" first 21:55 mtompset wants to do a git pull without having to issue the checkout... because that might require a commit. :P 21:55 jcamins pianohacker: but why would you want to update master without having it checked out? 21:55 mtompset ^He wants^ 21:56 pianohacker it was an idle curiosity :) Mainly so I can get all the branches in my git repo up to date without disturbing the working tree on my demo server 21:56 tcohen http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3216360/git-update-a-local-branch-without-checking-it-out 21:57 jcamins mtompset: right, but that's not actually a reason to do it, just an explanation of what he's trying to do. 21:57 pianohacker thanks to the godforsaken building wifi, I can only get stuff into github by ssh reverse-forwarding to my demo server for work, pulling from my laptop to the demo server, then pushing from there 21:57 jcamins Okay. 21:57 pianohacker That somehow works in a second, though a git push directly to github takes a minute or so then fails 21:58 pianohacker don't ask me why 21:58 jcamins So why are you trying to update master on your local repo? 21:58 rangi tcohen: not yet 21:58 mtompset pianohacker: Reminds me of http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2013-04-07/ 21:59 pianohacker So I can get my github up to date 21:59 pianohacker I've already done it the sane way, this is just curiosity 21:59 jcamins Ah. 21:59 jcamins What do you keep in your master branch? 22:00 pianohacker jcamins: Just upstream master 22:00 jcamins In that case, I suggest git push mycrazyremote origin/master:master 22:01 pianohacker mtompset: yeah, basically 22:01 pianohacker jcamins: Yeah 22:02 mtompset I figured as such, since you complained about that extra second in your workflow. :) 22:02 pianohacker tcohen: that looks like it would work but is crazy enough to convince me that I'm crazy 22:02 mtompset And it is the firewall, of course. :) 22:02 tcohen heh 22:03 pianohacker naw, blaming the ISP is better 22:03 tcohen infrastructure question: do we use gitosis? or gitolite? neither? 22:03 pianohacker then it's a firewall protected by several layers of useless tech support 22:04 rangi tcohen: gitolite 22:05 rangi gmcharlt and I can edit the config 22:05 rangi if you need anything 22:07 tcohen sorry, phone rangi 22:07 tcohen we are having issues 22:07 tcohen with our gitolite 22:07 tcohen (with redmine) 22:08 rangi oh? 22:08 pianohacker augh r/crappydesign is in comic sans 22:08 tcohen @ unc, we use that 22:08 huginn` tcohen: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready 22:08 jcamins pianohacker: let's think about this for a moment... 22:09 tcohen and wanted to know if updating gitolite was a pain or not 22:09 pianohacker it's appropriate, of course, but still painful 22:09 tcohen (i.e.if i have to do it or if i can delegate to the production guys) 22:10 gmcharlt tcohen: are you currently using v2 or v3? 22:11 rangi tcohen: so far ive found it really painless 22:11 tcohen v2.3-35-gd59bc35 22:11 tcohen (i didn't do the install, and they wouldn't let me maintain it, but i took control yesterday) 22:12 tcohen (after several problems related to redmine, besides being ugly) 22:12 wizzyrea tcohen - still experimental, not many events, but: http://koha-community.org/calendar/ 22:13 gmcharlt tcohen: it's not painful, but personally I wouldn't delegate to anybody who wasn't reasonably famiiliar with git and git hooks 22:13 tcohen understood, thanks gmcharlt 22:14 tcohen wizzyrea: you rule, you know that? 22:14 gmcharlt wizzyrea: groovy 22:14 cait wizzyrea++ 22:14 wizzyrea naw, I just have wicked google fu :p 22:14 wizzyrea google searching. 22:15 tcohen wizzyrea++ 22:17 wizzyrea agenda? 22:17 wahanui agenda is a wiki 22:17 wizzyrea irc meeting? 22:17 wizzyrea gr. 22:17 wizzyrea theoretically we could put the agenda on the event on the calendar 22:18 gmcharlt event editnig permissions are predicated on having a WP account? 22:18 wizzyrea yep, with permissions, which is probably an argument to leave it on the wiki 22:19 wizzyrea http://koha-community.org/ai1ec_event/4445/?instance_id= 22:19 wizzyrea (for example) 22:20 gmcharlt snazzy 22:21 gmcharlt I think wiki for now, but I could imagine a grand unification project that ties both WP and Mediawiki to an LDAP directory 22:21 wizzyrea cuz'n we can do that now ;) 22:22 gmcharlt heh - http://wordpress.org/plugins/wpmuldap/ might be areason to keep it MU 22:22 wizzyrea oh all wordpress is MU now, you just have to enable it 22:22 wizzyrea (and it's still mu anyway) 22:23 mtompset MU? 22:23 wahanui hmmm... MU is a speaker, AR is a little book 22:23 wizzyrea multiuser/multiblog 22:23 mtompset I thought MU was mutual understanding. ;) 22:25 wizzyrea gr I can't work on this now but will go back to it later. 22:30 pianohacker @seen srdjan 22:30 huginn` pianohacker: I have not seen srdjan. 22:31 pianohacker Does he come on IRC at all? 22:31 wizzyrea try papa 22:31 wizzyrea @seen papa 22:31 huginn` wizzyrea: papa was last seen in #koha 21 hours, 36 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <papa> Like when it had MARC in it, i'd skip immediately :) 22:31 pianohacker Ah, thanks 22:31 pianohacker @later tell papa updated patch #1 for 10320, thanks for the feedback 22:31 huginn` pianohacker: The operation succeeded. 22:33 pianohacker http://www.tannr.com/herp-derp-youtube-comments/ 22:34 druthb pianohacker++ 22:34 pianohacker no-restart install for firefox, and it's... amazing 22:35 wizzyrea bug 10320 22:35 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10320 enhancement, P4, ---, jweaver, Needs Signoff , Show results from library's OverDrive collection in OPAC search 22:38 pianohacker wizzyrea: First patch since I got back 22:38 cait congrats :) 22:38 wizzyrea and boy what a doozy 22:38 wizzyrea that's fantastic. 22:38 wizzyrea looks and works nicely too! 22:39 pianohacker thanks :) 22:54 eythian hi 22:55 rhcl hi 22:57 cait wizzyrea: can we get a screenshot? no overdrive in germany 22:57 eythian hi cait, what are you doing still up? 22:57 cait i was finishing my latest distance study course :) 22:58 eythian ah, cool 22:58 eythian oh, if you want some more, Catalyst did this website: https://www.open2study.com/ 22:58 cait and now i am going to bed - still curious how overdrive looks like :) 22:59 cait eythian: rangi showed me already - but i better stick to those i need for my degree for now :) 22:59 eythian that's taking the easy way out! 22:59 wizzyrea I don't have a screenshot 22:59 cait ooh 23:00 cait night all :) 23:17 Brooke o/ 23:39 eythian http://seriouslyjs.org/ <-- neat 23:40 tcohen hi eythian 23:40 eythian hello 23:40 wahanui bonjour, eythian 23:43 tcohen that's awesome eythian 23:43 eythian it really is 23:55 jcamins My brother was docked in a course in his second MA degree program at Arizona State for providing the citation to the original text of an article rather than a reproduction of the article which he had not yet received. 23:56 jcamins That's kind of absurd. 23:56 jcamins Especially since apparently the reason he lost points was "his citation was wrong." 23:57 jcamins Just when I think that faculty members should be relied upon to teach citation, someone comes along and demonstrates that librarians _are_ necessary in that connection. 23:58 dcook O_o