Time  Nick         Message
00:01 jcamins      Wow.
00:01 jcamins      238 patches pushed this month.
00:01 cait         cool
00:02 jcamins      cait: isn't it kind of late?
00:02 cait         it is
00:02 cait         i was packing
00:02 jcamins      That makes this month the third-busiest month in the last twelve.
00:03 cait         hm
00:03 cait         closer to release date...
00:03 cait         makes sense probably?
00:04 jcamins      5th busiest month in the last two years.
00:04 jcamins      Yup.
00:04 dcook        Wow..
00:05 dcook        I wonder what the breakdown for that is
00:05 dcook        How many are template changes, module changes, script changes
00:05 dcook        Nice to see lots of Owen's changes going through to make the interfaces that much nicer :D
00:05 jcamins      I will leave that sort of statistics for someone else.
00:06 rangi        http://git.koha-community.org/stats/koha-master/activity.html#commits_by_year/month
00:06 jcamins      Hey... I can make it 4th busiest!
00:06 dcook        hehe
00:06 jcamins      Cool! Thanks.
00:06 jcamins      Odd...
00:06 rangi        thats when the patches were authored, not when they were pushed (that one i posted)
00:06 bag          rangi usually rans stats
00:06 jcamins      Those numbers do not match up with mine...
00:06 jcamins      at all.
00:07 jcamins      Oh.
00:07 jcamins      That would be why.
00:07 bag          s/rans/runs
00:07 bag          is feeling slow today
00:07 wizzyrea     in the past tense even.
00:08 dcook        So 2008, 2011, 2012 have been big years
00:08 dcook        Well, actually, quite a few, but the biggest
00:08 wizzyrea     2009-2010 were mired in conflict and strife.
00:08 jcamins      There's a definite upward trend.
00:08 rangi        yep 2011 was when we got rid of the deadweight
00:08 rangi        end of 2010
00:08 wizzyrea     2008 was 3.0
00:08 wizzyrea     and that was huge
00:09 dcook        Mmm, all in the numbers, eh?
00:09 wizzyrea     2009-10 were waiting for people to get out of the way
00:10 wizzyrea     more or less.
00:10 dcook        What happened between 2006-2007?
00:10 dcook        BibLibre?
00:10 wahanui      hmmm... BibLibre is already doing something like this, so perhaps once this tool is complete, it would provide an easier method of maintaining the service you already provide
00:10 wizzyrea     people becoming interested in the idea of an open ILS
00:10 wizzyrea     forget biblibre
00:10 wahanui      wizzyrea: I forgot biblibre
00:10 dcook        wizzyrea: that's really exciting :)
00:11 wizzyrea     yea, french adoption I guess
00:11 wizzyrea     well where's the gource video
00:11 wizzyrea     it shows
00:12 wizzyrea     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl1a2VN_pec
00:12 wizzyrea     10 years of koha is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl1a2VN_pec
00:12 wizzyrea     10 years of koha?
00:12 wahanui      10 years of koha is probably at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl1a2VN_pec
00:16 wizzyrea     when did koha transition to git?
00:16 rangi        2007
00:16 wizzyrea     oh so that's what was happening then :)
00:17 cait         :)
00:18 rangi        that was about the one and only good thing that came out of my time at liblime
00:19 jcamins      You didn't even get any nice t-shirts?
00:19 rangi        actually i didnt!
00:19 * slef       mumbles something about suggesting git long before that
00:19 * wizzyrea   pats slef
00:19 wizzyrea     there there
00:19 wizzyrea     git wasn't very old in 2008 though
00:20 slef         although it wasn't my first suggestion... using arch for 2.0.n>1 wasn't a great move
00:21 slef         wizzyrea: it was 3 years old.  That's like 21 years old in human years.
00:22 dcook        Mmm, so jcamins and ethyian had their first commits in 2010, eh?
00:22 dcook        Amazing work since then guys :)
00:22 dcook        Everyone really
00:22 jcamins      Thanks.
00:22 jcamins      Oooh, have I caught up with anyone recently?
00:22 * dcook      just finished watching the youtube video
00:23 eythian      http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=567299698
00:23 jcamins      Hm... doesn't seem too likely that I'll be passing hdl.
00:24 slef         [off] hrmph... still a long way to go before I overtake the attribution thiefs
00:24 cait         i think i fell down one
00:25 jcamins      cait: yes... that was me. :P
00:25 cait         tss
00:25 cait         i need to get 19 more commits
00:25 cait         before colin does... he is in reach
00:25 jcamins      I need to get another 350. :P
00:26 dcook        Where are those stats again?
00:26 jcamins      http://git.koha-community.org/stats/koha-master/authors.html
00:27 slef         http://dashboard.koha-community.org/ are the better stats to optimise
00:27 dcook        Yeah, I have the dashboard up but some stats seem to be missing
00:27 cait         I wanted to catch nicole.. but life interfered
00:28 jcamins      slef: true, but I shouldn't be showing well on any of those.
00:28 slef         dashboard source?
00:28 slef         anyone know where?
00:28 rangi        in gitorious
00:28 dcook        Nearly 13 million lines of code, rangi?
00:28 rangi        dcook: po files
00:28 wahanui      po files are outdated
00:28 dcook        Mmm
00:28 slef         jcamins: shouldn't your name show up on "New features recently pushed" somehow? ;-)
00:29 slef         or there should be a last N pushes or something
00:29 rangi        https://gitorious.org/koha-dashboard
00:29 rangi        i havent pushed to there in a little while so its out of date
00:29 slef         dashboard source is https://gitorious.org/koha-dashboard
00:29 jcamins      slef: since only one person is ever pushing things at a time, it doesn't really seem necessary.
00:29 slef         rangi--
00:30 wizzyrea     !
00:30 slef         jcamins: well, can we judge you on the datestamps in that column then? Give you a beer if all five are today? ;-)
00:30 rangi        its pushed to my localbackups of course .. or i could just turn the dashboard server off if you would prefer?
00:30 cait         noooooo
00:31 jcamins      slef: they won't be, because I prioritize bugfixes.
00:31 jcamins      Actually, wait...
00:31 jcamins      they might be.
00:32 slef         jcamins: hmm. "bugfixes recently pushed" would be a nice enh.
00:35 huginn       New commit(s) kohagit: Merge branch 'bug_9555' into 3.12-master <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=e247af6723f17c76ec106f01314850337ab4e475> / Bug 9555: Template files contain single quote strings <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=f36ac484c91754bd490858089ea09f26cb3b11cf> / Merge branch 'bug_9669' into 3.12-master <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=4f0191e1
00:35 * dcook      will have to get on top of pushing up his number from 21
00:36 jenkins_koha Starting build #1062 for job Koha_master (previous build: FIXED)
00:36 jcamins      Okay...
00:36 jcamins      I am confused.
00:37 jcamins      bug 9456
00:37 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9456 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Passed QA , Add callnumber column to the cart
00:37 jcamins      Wasn't the goal improved readability?
00:39 dcook        Hmm
00:39 rangi        i think it was just being able to sort by callnumber was the original goal
00:39 jcamins      Well... it does sort by callnumber.
00:39 jcamins      But now you can't tell which library which item is at.
00:39 rangi        ahh thats less than useful
00:39 jcamins      Yeah.
00:40 dcook        jcamins: How's that?
00:40 jcamins      dcook: you end up with something that looks like Call number Branch Branch Call number Branch
00:41 dcook        Interesting
00:41 wahanui      Interesting is probably sometimes good and sometimes bad
00:41 jcamins      And it's a solid mass of text.
00:42 dcook        :S:
00:42 slef         Changes submitted for bug 8740
00:42 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8740 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mjr, Needs Signoff , Serials Claims should be exportable all at once
00:48 dcook        Hmm. Some of these bootstrap changes look rather awful in Chrome..
00:48 jcamins      dcook: really?
00:48 jcamins      I like 'em a lot!
00:48 dcook        Maybe it's a caching issue then..
00:49 jcamins      I use Chrome on a Mac.
00:49 wizzyrea     oh yes definitely nuke your cache
00:49 wizzyrea     they always look bad right at first.
00:49 wizzyrea     god it's like he knows
00:49 oleonard     I sensed a disturbance in the Force...
00:49 dcook        jcamins: Looks like it was caching :)
00:49 dcook        lol
00:49 eythian      it was just the farce, nothing to worry about oleonard
00:49 dcook        oleonard++
00:49 jcamins      lol
00:50 oleonard     *whew*
00:50 dcook        It was weird..
00:50 dcook        I've seen weird caching before but this was different
00:51 dcook        oleonard: Yes, before that moment, I've been a huge fan of the Bootstrap additions :)
00:52 jcamins      Woohoo! I saved $0.29/lb on lentils today!
00:52 oleonard     I was just reading the logs because I didn't know where else to go to find out what to do with an extra half an avacado
00:52 dcook        lol
00:52 jcamins      oleonard: ... really?
00:53 oleonard     No, but that's what I found! :)
00:53 jcamins      Oh.
00:54 jcamins      Ooh! I can use the splinter code review!
00:55 wizzyrea     lolol
00:55 jcamins      No I can't.
00:55 jcamins      How do I leave a comment?
00:55 huginn       New commit(s) kohagit: Merge branch 'bug_3549' into 3.12-master <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=4fc65c47a1c40dde589ebc14c7d45f81b5438292> / Bug 3549 -[Revised]- Framework sorting in addbook <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=590c476f094546532cf521c3433693717f2738dd>
00:55 rangi        double click on the line you want to comment on
00:56 jcamins      Ah!
00:56 jcamins      Cool!
00:56 jcamins      Thanks.
00:56 rangi        then go back to overview and hit publish
00:56 rangi        when you are done
00:56 rangi        or only u can see them :)
00:57 oleonard     How does it fit into the process? The person who submitted the patch sees that there is a review?
00:59 jcamins      Yeah, it gets e-mailed to everyone watching the bug.
00:59 rangi        everyone does (who reads the mailing list or is subscribed to the bug)
01:00 jcamins      oleonard: why are you online?
01:00 jcamins      It seems a bit later than usual for you.
01:00 oleonard     I dunno.
01:01 slef         wizzyrea++
01:02 slef         @quote add <oleonard> I was just reading the logs because I didn't know where else to go to find out what to do with an extra half an avacado
01:02 huginn       slef: The operation succeeded.  Quote #234 added.
01:02 slef         @quote random
01:02 jcamins      Hey... what _does_ the VM Manager do?
01:02 huginn       slef: Quote #222: "jcamins: test patches, don't feed trolls." (added by druthb at 07:49 PM, December 07, 2012)
01:02 slef         jcamins: manages viral monkeys. What did you think it does?
01:02 wizzyrea     wait what'd I do?
01:03 slef         wizzyrea: took http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9322 to lists
01:03 huginn       04Bug 9322: major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , If multiple transfers exist (from circ/branchtransfers.pl), completing one completes them all
01:04 wizzyrea     oh yea, it needed eyes desperately
01:04 wizzyrea     needs fixing desperately too
01:04 wizzyrea     (do note, it's not catalyst that has been paid to do the work that is hung up by that bug)
01:05 wizzyrea     i just know that larger libraries that heavily use transits get things hung up by that bug.
01:05 wizzyrea     and it's unpleasant at best to unravel
01:05 jcamins      slef: to be honest, I haven't a clue. What VMs?
01:08 slef         jcamins: is this about roles for 3.14?
01:08 jcamins      slef: yeah.
01:08 jcamins      A potential volunteer wants to know what his duties would entail before telling the world he's interested in doing it.
01:08 slef         I guess it's keeping the VM image up to date.
01:09 slef         as in http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Setting_Up_Koha_in_Virtual_Environment_%2B_Using_That_as_a_Development_Environment
01:09 slef         Is it a new role?
01:09 eythian      I think that wiki page is totally unrelated
01:09 jcamins      I think so?
01:10 slef         it was listed on http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_3.12 but unassigned
01:10 dcook        There is an existing VM image loaded up with Koha somewhere?
01:10 dcook        I suppose the LiveDvd..
01:10 jcamins      Oh, I bet it's about the Virtual Appliances that Kyle used to do.
01:10 jcamins      That makes sense.
01:14 rangi        oh this is interesting
01:14 rangi        10151 Galen Charlton
01:14 rangi        galen gets blamed for the most lines in C4/
01:14 rangi        :)
01:14 jcamins      lol
01:14 jcamins      Actually, I'm not surprised.
01:14 rangi        3264 Jared Camins-Esakov
01:15 rangi        2428 Paul Poulain + 6580 tipaul
01:15 jcamins      Ha! Paul is responsible for more than me!
01:15 jcamins      How did you do that?
01:15 rangi        heh
01:15 rangi        its cli madness
01:16 rangi        git ls-files C4/ | xargs -n1 -d'\n' -i git blame {} | perl -n -e '/\s\((.*?)\s[0-9]{4}/ && print "$1\n"' | sort -f | uniq -c -w3 | sort -r
01:16 rangi        im looking in opac/ now
01:17 rangi        fun with git ;)
01:17 rangi        1459 Jared Camins-Esakov in Koha/
01:17 rangi        you are the clear winner in there
01:18 jcamins      That I will take credit for. :)
01:18 wizzyrea     :)
01:18 jcamins      rangi: add -n to the end of the sort.
01:19 rangi        me looks at the dreaded C4::Search
01:19 rangi        yep
01:19 rangi        914 Joshua Ferraro
01:21 rangi        lars wins for xt
01:21 bag          that seems like a phone number 914 kados
01:21 rangi        [off] want someone to make a mess and then swan off with a bag of cash ... call 914 kados
01:22 rangi        355 Bart Jorgensen  in t/
01:22 rangi        thats pretty sweet
01:22 jcamins      Nice!
01:22 bag          [off] that is sooo wrong!
01:22 rangi        galen wins in there tho
01:22 rangi        7118 Galen Charlton
01:23 rangi        ok time to stop pulling up useless stats and go get kahu from school
01:23 wizzyrea     love that kid.
01:23 wizzyrea     gl :)
01:24 wizzyrea     both bart and kahu.
01:24 rangi        'soren lives in newtown, he will be at the fair eh daddy? He makes me giggle' - kahu this morning
01:25 wizzyrea     hehe yea are you guys going to come?
01:25 rangi        thats the plan ill sms you
01:25 wizzyrea     "he makes me giggle" that's high praise.
01:25 wizzyrea     cool
01:26 oleonard     Speaking of kids, mine are out of the bath, gotta go
01:26 wizzyrea     later
01:26 oleonard     See y'all in 12 hours :)
01:42 dcook        Oohhh...Amazon covers are even more insidious than I thought..
01:44 wizzyrea     oh do tell
01:44 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1062: SUCCESS in 1 hr 8 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1062/
01:44 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 9663 - Individual bibliographic record "Save" option requires export permission
01:44 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 5333 - z3950 normalization should apply only on UNIMARC
01:44 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 9669 - Replace YUI buttons on staff client cart toolbar
01:44 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 9555: Template files contain single quote strings
01:44 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9663 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Individual bibliographic record "Save" option requires export permission
01:44 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5333 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Pushed to Master , Undefined value stops import from z39.50
01:44 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9669 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Replace YUI buttons on staff client cart toolbar
01:44 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9555 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Template files contain single quote strings
01:46 jenkins_koha Starting build #1063 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
01:48 dcook        wizzyrea: I'm trying to fetch an image from Amazon with a valid ISBN but the Amazon URL doesn't show anything...
01:48 dcook        I'm just about to look at the Amazoncover.js
01:48 dcook        But it looks like it removes every image element when it has an error and spits out its own "No cover available"
01:49 dcook        In this case, there is a local image elment that should not be erased but it's getting sucked up in the mess
01:53 dcook        bug 9737
01:53 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9737 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Local Covers sometimes appear then disappear on OPAC Search Results/Lists
01:53 wizzyrea     oh cascading covers has never worked well.
01:54 dcook        [off] In unrelated news, my struggle with the old real estate has finally ended in victory after battling for a month! Bond returned in full ^_^.
01:54 wizzyrea     woot!
01:54 dcook        :)
01:56 dcook        As for the covers, let's see what I can drum up in the next few minutes..
02:01 eythian      wahanui: what is the saddest thing?
02:01 wahanui      the saddest thing is probably http://ur1.ca/9x67k
02:03 eythian      wahanui: the saddest thing is also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Itanium_Sales_Forecasts_edit.png
02:03 wahanui      okay, eythian.
02:06 eythian      wahanui: the saddest thing is also http://i39.tinypic.com/14jz15f.jpg
02:06 wahanui      okay, eythian.
02:07 eythian      wahanui: the saddest thing is also http://ur1.ca/cxl9a
02:07 wahanui      okay, eythian.
02:07 jcamins      eythian: why are we sad about Itanium?
02:07 eythian      the forecasts are the saddest thing
02:09 wizzyrea     sounds like the ghostly howls of a drowned tuba player.
02:15 eythian      wahanui: the most dangerous game
02:15 wahanui      eythian: what?
02:15 eythian      wahanui: the most dangerous game is http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=1488
02:15 wahanui      OK, eythian.
02:20 dcook        :D
02:20 wizzyrea     lol.
02:20 * dcook      thinks he has a workable solution
02:21 eythian      tennis with lit dynamite whilst riding bears.
02:21 eythian      it's always a solution.
02:22 * dcook      is having way too much fun imagining such a scenario
02:24 dcook        In this case, the amazon image just needs to be wrapped in a span...
02:26 eythian      http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap130227.html
02:27 dcook        http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap121023.html
02:27 dcook        That's from 50 km north of my hometown :)
02:28 dcook        [off] I probably shouldn't have said that...*shrug*
02:29 jcamins      [off] Now everyone knows you're provincial? :P
02:34 dcook        [off] Or exactly where to find me when I'm on holiday visiting my folks ;)
02:34 wizzyrea     O NOES
02:35 dcook        :p
02:35 dcook        IN ANY CASE, cool clouds all around
02:35 jcamins      [off] Good point. I will come and force you to work on Koha next time you visit.
02:38 jcamins      You know what I dislike?
02:38 dcook        What's that?
02:38 wahanui      that is in march?
02:38 jcamins      Binary logical not.
02:38 jcamins      Not should be a unary operator.
02:40 eythian      it is, isn't it?
02:40 jcamins      Unless you are using PQF, yes.
02:40 eythian      I see...
02:40 jcamins      If you're using PQF, it's mostly just nuts.
02:41 eythian      well, really a binary operator should be binary, not unary ;)
02:41 jcamins      Right, but I maintain that it should not be binary at all.
02:42 eythian      maybe there's a separate unary not operator.
02:42 jcamins      Nope. PQF is just mean like that.
02:53 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1063: SUCCESS in 1 hr 7 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1063/
02:53 jenkins_koha Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel: Bug 3549 -[Revised]- Framework sorting in addbook
02:53 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3549 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Pushed to Master , Framework sorting in addbook
02:54 jcamins      dcook++
02:54 jenkins_koha Starting build #1064 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
02:54 dcook        ?
02:54 jcamins      That bug has been reported a lot, but I've never been able to duplicate it because I use special Javascript on sites that have both local cover images and Amazon cover images.
02:55 dcook        Mmm
02:55 dcook        My patch is actually incomplete. Fixing up a complete one at the moment
02:55 dcook        Using special javascript would probably be a better idea, but...this fixes the immediate problem
02:56 jcamins      No, the Javascript is for something else entirely.
02:57 jcamins      It just so happens that as a side effect it prevents the bug showing up.
02:59 jcamins      rangi: do you backport all the Plack fixes to 3.10/3.8?
03:00 dcook        Mmm, interesting
03:00 eythian      koha packages from master being deployed, based on the new signing keys.
03:00 dcook        I assume that JS is the one that I noticed on your dev instance? Seems useful.
03:00 jcamins      eythian++
03:02 jcamins      Yeah, but it's not really generally usable at this point.
03:08 dcook        Hmm, maybe I'm referring to something different. I just meant that expandable bar you had on the right with all the added info
03:08 dcook        In any case, I'll be happy to put this cover image bug to bed
03:08 dcook        ...so to speak
03:08 dcook        Are bed bugs still a hot issue in the US?
03:09 jcamins      Yup.
03:09 jcamins      In the city, anyway.
03:09 dcook        :(
03:28 libsysguy    install all the dependencies from cpan
03:29 jcamins      That will fix bed bugs?
03:29 libsysguy    sadly no
03:29 libsysguy    but it will fix insomnia
03:29 jcamins      Alas.
03:29 libsysguy    :p
03:29 jcamins      lol
03:31 libsysguy    I think I can see light at the end of my force install tunnel
03:31 jcamins      Heh.
03:31 libsysguy    I am into modules without deps
03:31 libsysguy    lol
03:32 libsysguy    so if you wanna be my dependency, you gotta be dependencies for my friends
03:32 * libsysguy  has been at this too long
03:35 libsysguy    and the grand total size for the perl deps for my catalyst app
03:35 libsysguy    78M
03:36 libsysguy    total catalyst app size 1.9M
04:01 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1064: SUCCESS in 1 hr 8 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1064/
04:07 jcamins      Something of an argument in favor of any other framework, I think.
04:07 * jcamins    heads to bed.
05:20 dcook        OMGWTFBBQ!
05:20 dcook        Integrate ElasticSearch as a search engine
05:20 rangi        20 points if you do it
05:20 rangi        (it's actually not so bad with jcamins search rewrite)
05:21 dcook        I thought ElasticSearch only worked with JSON
05:22 * dcook      has been meaning to play with it for...a little over a year
05:24 rangi        the main advantage is it is schema less
05:24 rangi        you pass the schema with the data you want to index
05:24 rangi        with elastic search you could make the opac do discovery .. in an actual useful fashion
05:28 rangi        not being a librarian, im all about making the opac useful, if i never to try to improve staff workflows again ill be happy
05:28 rangi        never have to even
05:29 dcook        hehe
05:29 rangi        i should pitch my talk idea to ALA
05:30 rangi        [off] the idea is i get a panel of non library users, and 10 opacs, and ask them to find a certain title
05:30 dcook        Throughout library school, I always thought about things from the perspective of the end user (as I really enjoyed the Vancouver Public Library)
05:30 rangi        [off] performance art almost :)
05:30 dcook        But now I have noticed more of a focus on the staff end, since clients are librarians. Interesting..
05:30 dcook        [off] lol
05:31 dcook        [off] I really like that idea actually. A lot of my conversations/papers a few years ago related to making the library relevant to real people. It contains the items they want. They just need to know that the library has them, and have an efficient way of actually finding those items
05:32 dcook        So with ElasticSearch...you pass it the MARCXML and the MARCXML schema, then it indexes everything and outputs it as JSON?
05:32 rangi        [off] exactly libraries dont really need new missions, or to reinvent themselves they just need to improve delivery of their current mission and market themselves so ppl know they still exist
05:32 rangi        pretty much
05:33 rangi        and then you throw it some dublin core
05:33 rangi        and some whatever else
05:33 dcook        So that it's outputting meaningful standard-based metadata?
05:34 dcook        [off] Exactly! I put that in my library school entrance essay, and they seemed rather keen on that idea
05:36 dcook        I still wonder a bit about the concept of discovery though
05:36 dcook        What do people want to know?
05:36 dcook        I was intrigued by VPL's use of Bibliocommons, but I've usually used the opac for targetted searches rather than discovery..
05:37 * dcook      tends to trawl bookstores and comic shops for that
05:37 dcook        I suppose those are two slightly different ideas about discovery though
05:44 rangi        yeah
05:44 rangi        what the discovery interfaces seem to do
05:44 rangi        is try to do some (not federated .. that would be sensible) kinda union search
05:45 rangi        over the catalogue and databases
05:45 dcook        Mmm
05:46 dcook        They seem to also pick out a lot more of the fixed field data than traditional OPACs
05:46 dcook        So they give more options for language, audience, media type, etc
05:46 dcook        Some of the things that RDA is irrelevantly expanding into other fields..
05:47 dcook        They seemingly do facets well
05:47 dcook        Cataloguers seem to hate them though.
05:50 dcook        I suppose that goes back to what you were saying before mentioning the talk :p
05:54 rangi        :)
06:01 dcook        In other news, it looks like I'm going to Reno :). Have to look at flights and what leave I want to take before/after, but yay!
06:04 rangi        sweet!
06:05 dcook        :D
06:06 dcook        Thinking about giving some sort of presentation, but not really sure on what yet. Maybe something for librarians/other newbies.
06:06 * Oak        waves
06:06 dcook        hi Oak :)
06:11 dcook        Morning, cait :)
06:12 cait         goodmornig
06:29 * dcook      heads off toward the weekend
06:44 * magnuse    waves
06:44 magnuse      Oak
06:50 magnuse      wow, 235 signoffs in february!
06:52 * cait       waves
06:58 Oak          magnuse
06:58 Oak          hello cait
06:58 cait         hi Oak :)
06:59 Oak          :)
06:59 magnuse      hiya Oak and cait
07:46 reiveune     hello
08:07 tweetbot`    [off] twitter: @BibLibre: "Nous sommes heureux d'annoncer que l'Université de Paris-Sud a choisi #KOHAils et #BibLibre pour son futur SIGB"
08:32 gaetan_B     hello
08:32 christophe_c hello all
08:40 magnuse      bonjour france
08:40 magnuse      another french university chooses koha? cool!
08:49 christophe_c hello magnuse
08:55 tweetbot`    [off] twitter: @IrmaLibraries: "Bravo #kohails and #BibLibre ! Another French university chooses Koha : Université de Paris-Sud"
08:58 magnuse      bonjour christophe_c
08:59 cait         hi christophe_c and magnuse
08:59 cait         :)
08:59 christophe_c hi cait
09:04 samuel       hi everybody :-)
09:04 magnuse      hi samuel
09:05 magnuse      hm, why is one of my instances sending DUE messages that lack title and author? ODUE messages have them and other instances running off the same package install has them...
09:05 magnuse      koha 3.8 btw
09:05 cait         checked your notice templates?
09:06 magnuse      yeah, as far as i can tell they are identical between the instance that works and the one that does not
09:07 cait         hm
09:07 cait         and they never worked?
09:10 magnuse      nope
09:10 magnuse      well, i just enabled them
09:10 cait         hmm
09:10 cait         can you share your notice tempateß
09:10 cait         for due?
09:11 magnuse      sure
09:11 magnuse      one moment
09:11 cait         also did you use the itemscontent parameter on the cronjob?
09:12 magnuse      um, not sure
09:13 magnuse      but i think the packages run the same script with the same params for all instances
09:13 cait         hm yeah would make sense
09:13 cait         oh
09:13 magnuse      http://paste.koha-community.org/413http://paste.koha-community.org/413
09:13 magnuse      http://paste.koha-community.org/413
09:13 cait         is it a library specific template each time? or all libraries?
09:13 magnuse      no library specific templates
09:13 * cait       ponders
09:14 cait         that is DUE not the DGST
09:14 cait         I am not using those.... too annoying to get so many emails :)
09:16 magnuse      yeah, it's DUE
09:16 drojf        good morning #koha
09:17 cait         magnuse: running out of ideas :(
09:18 cait         did you check the title in question is correct?
09:19 cait         @wunder Dortmund
09:19 huginn       cait: The current temperature in Dortmund, Germany is 2.0°C (9:50 AM CET on March 01, 2013). Conditions: Light Drizzle. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Windchill: -1.0°C. Pressure: 30.27 in 1025 hPa (Steady).
09:19 cait         @wunder Konstanz
09:19 huginn       cait: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 1.0°C (10:00 AM CET on March 01, 2013). Conditions: Mist. Humidity: 78%. Dew Point: -1.0°C. Pressure: 30.22 in 1023 hPa (Rising).
09:56 magnuse      hm, maybe i found the problem with the DUE messages? they were set up to be sent as the first message in the "Overdue notice/status triggers" settings
09:56 magnuse      on the instance that works, only ODUE messages are set there
09:57 magnuse      and "Advance notice" is ticked off in the enhanced messaging section for the relevant patron category
09:58 magnuse      i'll reproduce that setup and see if it changes anything
10:28 cait1        @wunder st. georgen
10:29 huginn       cait1: Error: No such location could be found.
10:30 cait1        yeah, probably too small :)
10:50 magnuse      cait1: on a train?
10:50 cait1        heh how did you know? ;)
10:57 magnuse      male intuition:-)
11:34 magnuse      @karma indexdata
11:34 huginn       magnuse: indexdata has neutral karma.
11:54 magnuse      how is anyone supposed to know what the usmarc.mar file does when the documentation is limited to one small, vague paragraph? https://www.indexdata.com/zebra/doc/grs-conf.html#grs-mar-files
11:55 magnuse      "This file provides rules for representing a record in the ISO2709 format. The rules pertain mostly to the values of the constant-length header of the record."
11:55 magnuse      mostly?!? and how are the rules defined?
11:55 magnuse      indexdata--
12:23 magnuse      is there a us holiday today or something?
12:23 jcamins      Not that I know of.
12:23 jcamins      Why?
12:23 magnuse      i was just expecting us people to start showing up around now
12:24 magnuse      s/us/US/
12:24 jcamins      It's a bit early still.
12:24 jcamins      7:20.
12:24 magnuse      ah, ok
12:25 magnuse      don't know why i am impatient then :-)
12:25 magnuse      oh, it's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Pig_Day in the US
12:26 jcamins      Huh. Who knew?
12:28 magnuse      wikiedia knew :-)
12:34 * magnuse    imagines cait zooming in and out of tunnels in the german countryside
12:34 cait         ah :)
12:34 cait         yeah lots of tunnels on that part of the trip - but past that now :)
12:35 cait         more urban area now so I hope internet will be a bit more stable
12:35 magnuse      yay
13:34 oleonard     Hi #koha
13:34 slef         Changes submitted for bug 7167
13:34 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7167 blocker, P1 - high, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , updatedatabase improvements
13:34 slef         upgraded it to blocker because it blocks a blocker
13:34 slef         IYSWIM
13:36 Herwig       Hey koha i'm moving a koha database to a test server now i wanna rebuild zebra with sudo koha-rebuild-zebra -v -f library ... is the word library the database name ?
13:37 nengard      slef what is IYSWIM ?
13:37 oleonard     IYSWIM?
13:37 * oleonard   guesses "If you see what I mean?"
13:39 slef         oleonard++
13:40 magnuse      Herwig: library is the name of the instance
13:40 oleonard     wahanui: IYSWIM is "If you see what I mean"
13:40 wahanui      oleonard: i don't know
13:40 magnuse      Herwig: the actual database "inside" mysql will be koha_library or library_koha, i never remember which
13:41 Herwig       i have koha_koha-oe
13:42 magnuse      Herwig: then you have created an instance called koha-oe?
13:42 Herwig       i get sudo: unknown user: koha_koha-oe-koha
13:43 magnuse      Herwig: what was the command you gave?
13:43 Herwig       koha-rebuild-zebra -v -f koha_koha-oe
13:48 magnuse      ah try:
13:48 magnuse      koha-rebuild-zebra -v -f koha-oe
13:49 Herwig       works
13:49 magnuse      if you do koha-list you can see the instances you have
13:49 magnuse      the names that koha-list give are the ones you should use in commands
13:49 Herwig       i try afther indexing
13:50 Herwig       50000 record just a sec ;)
13:56 slef         Could we downgrade Bug 9326, then? I don't think 9326 should block release. Also, it appears unnecessarily high in the needs-signoff list and ahead of this bug which it depends upon.
13:56 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9326 blocker, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , New database update system suggests running duplicate updates
13:57 Herwig       magnuse ++++++
13:57 Herwig       :)
13:57 Herwig       i learn new things everytime i come here :)
13:57 magnuse      :-)
13:58 magnuse      me too! :-)
13:58 Herwig       lol
14:00 jcamins      slef: by all means.
14:01 jcamins      I hadn't noticed the weird ordering before.
14:04 slef         Changes submitted for bug 9326
14:04 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9326 new feature, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , New database update system suggests running duplicate updates
14:10 cait1        @quote random
14:10 huginn       cait1: Quote #12: "<owen> Every time you check in a book a little video loads and Nancy Pearl recites her capsule review of it." (added by gmcharlt at 06:36 PM, July 06, 2009)
14:11 * jcamins    heads into the city.
14:13 cait1        ok... and now I missed him :)
15:10 oleonard     jcamins around again yet?
15:44 jcamins      Just got in.
15:45 jcamins      Well, actually, I've been here about twenty minutes, but I had to fix my client's LAN.
15:46 jcamins      ... you can't download an old version of Firefox for an old computer?
15:47 oleonard     You mean you couldn't find the older version to download?
15:47 jcamins      I didn't look yet.
15:47 jcamins      But the FF front page says "Your system doesn't meet the requirements for Firefox! Ha!"
15:48 jcamins      I generally expect to be told "Your system doesn't meet the requirements for the current version. Please consider $AncientVersion."
15:48 oleonard     I seem to recall jumping through hoops to find a 3.6.x version to test on
15:48 jwagner      jcamins, yes, there are sites for old versions.  See http://www.oldversion.com/windows/mozilla-firefox/ for one
15:48 jwagner      also https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-older-version-of-firefox
15:49 jcamins      Ah-ha!
15:49 jcamins      Thanks!
15:50 jcamins      For the record, I still maintain it is poor user experience to not direct the user to 3.6.28 right away.
15:50 oleonard     I assume it's because they don't fix security problems in older versions?
15:51 jcamins      Well, sure, but people aren't going to go out and buy a new computer just to run Firefox.
15:51 oleonard     Heh, in the options for "Firefox no longer works with some versions of Windows XP," they suggest "Download Opera"
15:52 slef         Mozilla seem to be losing the plot more and more
15:52 jenkins_koha Starting build #30 for job Koha_Docs_3.10.x (previous build: FIXED)
15:52 jenkins_koha Starting build #300 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: FIXED)
15:52 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs_3.10.x build #30: SUCCESS in 1 min 3 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.10.x/30/
15:52 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: add j2a cron
15:52 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: add id to j2a perl documentation
15:53 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #300: SUCCESS in 1 min 3 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/300/
15:53 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: add j2a cron
15:53 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: add id to j2a perl documentation
15:53 slef         I saw someone complaining that Mozilla were refusing to implement new standards until one of ( Opera, Microsoft, Google ) did, but I've not checked that.
15:53 rambutan     I have the vague, uncomfortable feeling the FF is becoming more MS-centric. Maybe just me, however, and that's not the case.
15:54 rambutan     s/the/that
15:54 jwagner      FF used to be a nice slim functional browser.  The last several versions it's gotten more and more bloated, and changes functionality for no good reason.
15:56 rambutan     That was certainly the case with the old Mozilla suite, but after FF kinda went out on it's own it was better for a while, but now its got feature creep again.
15:56 jcamins      Anyway, what can I do for you, oleonard?
15:57 oleonard     jcamins: I have a revised patch for Bug 9445. Can I set it back to needs signoff or would you rather it get a new signoff?
15:57 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9445 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Use DataTables in local use system preferences editor
15:57 jcamins      I don't suppose Opera runs on OS X 10.4.11...
15:57 jcamins      You can set it to Passed QA.
15:58 oleonard     Thanks
15:59 oleonard     It's easy to say that FF has feature creep, but what are the features in the creep? It doesn't seem like it's got new bells and whistles
16:00 * jcamins    will let you know how Koha works in FF 3.6.28.
16:03 oleonard     although I have to say I haven't been much interested in looking at FF's new developer tools, being accustomed to Firebug
16:04 oleonard     I tested the new Bootstrap stuff in 3.6.28
16:04 rambutan     Features: (1) sync w/ mobile devices (2) password manager (3) pop-up blocker (4) form auto-complete (5) Location-Aware Browsing
16:05 rambutan     Not saying these aren't good features, just that FF has been adding stuff.
16:05 oleonard     The only thing on that list that's new is 1) and 5)
16:06 rambutan     I still prefer Konqueror when I want split screens, that's immensely cool to me
16:06 Joubu        good bye #koha, have a good week-end!
16:06 jenkins_koha Starting build #301 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: SUCCESS)
16:06 jenkins_koha Starting build #31 for job Koha_Docs_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
16:06 oleonard     Bye Joubu
16:06 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs_3.10.x build #31: SUCCESS in 17 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.10.x/31/
16:06 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: update j2a perl doc
16:06 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: add perldoc for update_totalissues.pl
16:06 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #301: SUCCESS in 16 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/301/
16:06 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: update j2a perl doc
16:06 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: add perldoc for update_totalissues.pl
16:08 reiveune     bye
16:09 slef         running patches2bugs mailer
16:10 slef         Mailing bug 8252 and bug 8620
16:10 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8252 critical, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Needs Signoff , Error in DOM biblio for UNIMARC (no range for fields 1xx)
16:10 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8620 major, P5 - low, ---, martin.renvoize, Needs Signoff , Barcode searching not working correctly
16:11 slef         I remember looking at both of those. 8252 I did not test because I have no UNIMARC sites and 8620 I wondered if it should fix UNIMARC as well as MARC21
16:11 slef         coding guidelines?
16:11 wahanui      coding guidelines are http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines
16:12 slef         well they don't mention MARC formats at all
16:12 slef         opinions?
16:13 jcamins      Yes... I thought I already failed that patch.
16:14 jcamins      It regenerates koha-biblio-indexdefs.xml.
16:14 jcamins      Or biblio-koha-indexefs
16:14 jcamins      Or whatever it's called.
16:15 jcamins      Oh, I thought you asked for "thoughts."
16:16 slef         huh?
16:16 slef         I did
16:16 slef         I'm currently working on something else, then may return to that
16:17 jcamins      You asked for "opinions," which that wasn't really.
16:17 slef         heh, true, but close enough!
16:17 jcamins      But oh well.
16:19 slef         any thoughts on the MARC21/UNIMARC aspect?
16:19 slef         wow, chocolate that you can buy with bitcoin
16:19 jcamins      slef: a friend of mine bought cookies from me for BTC.
16:20 jcamins      And... I don't know how I feel about the MARC21/UNIMARC issue. Are we sure there's a problem in UNIMARC?
16:24 slef         cait: do you use MARC21 or UNIMARC?
16:24 jcamins      MARC21.
16:24 slef         jcamins: then no :)
16:25 slef         cait: only the assignee's comment
16:25 slef         grr
16:25 slef         jcamins: only the assignee's comment
16:25 jcamins      Right.
16:25 jcamins      And I question the fix anyway, since it doesn't address whatever the actual issue is.
16:25 cait         why would i use unimarc? :)
16:25 cait         you asked me htat before :) germany has adopted marc21 and was using a german data format mab/mab2 before
16:26 cait         ok, intenet at the hotel is not better than on the train
16:26 slef         jcamins: etc/zebradb/marc_defs/marc21/biblios/biblio-koha-indexdefs.xml is patched. I don't see it being regenerated, although some of the patching is intriguing.
16:26 jcamins      slef: it's regenerated. See the comments?
16:27 jcamins      And we have to conclude that the problem is not a missing "any" for barcode, since keyword searching is working in most other fields, right?
16:28 slef         jcamins: yeah, those comment changes are the intriguing bit, but I don't know if it's just updates to reflect record.abs
16:28 jcamins      Nope. It's the result of regenerating biblio-koha-indexdefs.xml.
16:28 * slef       goes to reread bug
16:28 slef         jcamins: I guess I just don't understand this enough to review it :-/
16:28 jcamins      He doesn't say that explicitly.
16:29 slef         comment 4, right?
16:30 jcamins      Oh, yes, he does say it explicitly.
16:30 jcamins      I'll fail it tonight, I guess.
16:30 slef         ok, I'll stop failing to fail it for now then :)
16:30 jcamins      Sounds good.
16:31 slef         cait1: hello again. Your internet sucks.
16:31 cait1        it totally does.
16:31 slef         or is this an attempt to surround us?
16:31 cait1        and they want 4,50€/hour to use their internet...
16:32 slef         wahahwhwhat?
16:32 slef         have you asked them what flavour crack their price-setters are on?
16:32 cait1        not for this internet... but to get wifi from the hotel
16:33 cait1        telecom I think
16:33 cait1        some hotels do that... don't have their own but let telecom do it
16:33 slef         oh right... why is your o2 failing to be stable?
16:33 cait1        we are a bit outside of the city
16:33 cait1        I am still trying to figure it out
16:34 cait1        and trying to tether from the phone
16:34 slef         usb or wifi tether? I find it tends to work better than dongle, which seems a bit odd to me, but I guess the phone has its own power.
16:43 mustard      Do none of you Really Smart people have any thoughts of replacing MySql w/ MariaDB (or, huh, MongoDB)?
16:44 jcamins      rambutan: I use MariaDB.
16:44 jcamins      MongoDB is something else entirely.
16:44 maximep      mongodb is a completly different db
16:45 rambutan     jcamins: you use mariadb for Koha now?
16:45 jcamins      Yup.
16:45 jcamins      Not in production.
16:45 maximep      jcamins: is mariadb really worth it if you dont use any of its extra features ?
16:45 jcamins      maximep: I'm striking a blow for freedom everywhere?
16:45 rambutan     I think the issue is freedom as much as features
16:45 jcamins      :P
16:45 maximep      ah
16:45 maximep      right
16:46 jcamins      But I don't think it makes much of a difference.
16:46 jcamins      There may be an issue with deleting things in MariaDB.
16:46 jcamins      But then again, there may just be an issue with deleting things under Plack.
16:46 maximep      yeah, i think much of the perf updates are in mysql 5.6
16:46 jcamins      It's hard to tell.
16:46 maximep      hmmm we really have to spend time trying Plack for our intranets
16:47 jcamins      It works great, except when it doesn't, which is often.
16:47 maximep      but I guess you have to update to latest 3.10 for it
16:47 maximep      ?
16:47 jcamins      I wouldn't use it in production for the intranet.
16:47 maximep      ok
16:47 jcamins      I use Plack on master.
16:48 cait         grr
16:48 cait         irc logs?
16:48 wahanui      irc logs are http://irc.koha-community.org/irclog/koha/
16:50 maximep      so this freedom thing is not using anything that could have the word oracle in it ?
16:50 maximep      like virtualbox, mysql, etc
16:50 cait         oh ok, none of what I said shoed up here...
16:50 cait         yay
16:50 maximep      I guess I just don't care that much :S
16:50 cait         at least thethering seems to work better :)
16:51 jcamins      maximep: I have no objection to VirtualBox.
16:51 jcamins      Actually, I don't even have any objection to MySQL.
16:51 jcamins      Someone told me "hey, you should use MariaDB it's more free," and I said "okay, fine."
16:51 slef         I should use MariaDB it's more free.
16:51 slef         I need more time to test it, though.
16:52 slef         Same old question: What are the priorities?
16:52 jcamins      Probably not MariaDB.
16:52 jcamins      I'm testing it as a side effect of other things.
17:07 tcohen       hi #koha!
17:07 oleonard     Hi tcohen
17:09 tcohen       i've just sold my car, i got my brain back
17:10 jcamins      tcohen: cool, I didn't realize that one could exchange cars for brains.
17:10 tcohen       heh, no, but the whole transaction got me too nervous
17:10 tcohen       its my first time
17:11 tcohen       I see most of the places are filled for 3.14 roles
17:11 jcamins      There's always space for you! :D
17:12 tcohen       where? cant find
17:12 cait         maybe you could help with translations?
17:13 bag          we should list everyone names on sign-off'er ;)
17:13 jcamins      Or RMaint for 3.12.
17:13 jcamins      Or you could do QA.
17:13 jcamins      Or packaging.
17:13 jcamins      Or work on live CDs/DVDs.
17:13 jcamins      Or RM!!!!
17:14 cait         ok, that seems like a good moment to leave ;)
17:14 cait         bye all
17:14 jcamins      Or documentation.
17:14 wahanui      documentation is at http://koha-community.org/documentation/
17:14 jcamins      ^^ that was cait volunteering to be RM
17:15 oleonard     There's gotta be a way we can rope jcamins into being RM or an RMaint...
17:16 jcamins      oleonard: not likely, sorry.
17:18 tcohen       mmm rmaint is a lot of resposability!
17:18 jcamins      It is, but it's also kind of fun. :)
17:19 tcohen       i arrived late for 3.8.x, that would be easier as we actually use it
17:19 tcohen       anyway, out for lunch :-D
17:19 jcamins      You could switch to 3.12! :P
17:25 slef         Same old question: What are the priorities?
17:25 slef         that and I nuked our koha-community budget :-/
17:26 jcamins      slef: hiring an RM would be rather dear compared to a conference, I think.
17:28 slef         jcamins: any idea how many hours you spent RMing on top of what you would have spent anyway?
17:28 jcamins      slef: I don't know, but I could probably figure it out.
17:29 slef         my last figures are what, 7 releases ago?
17:29 slef         and that was RMaint
17:29 slef         jcamins: I suspect it would be useful info, help to avoid getting a lame-duck RM.
17:29 slef         jcamins: you seem to have kept on top of it pretty well so far, but the next 6 weeks are the tricky bit.
17:30 jcamins      Yeah, now is when it goes from "too much" to "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh."
17:33 jcamins      I'd say on the weeks when I don't do much, it's about 10 hours more than I would've spent if I weren't RM.
17:35 oleonard     And the project is the better for it.
17:36 oleonard     jcamins++
17:36 slef         so 0.28 Full-Time Equivalent
17:36 jcamins      Minimum.
17:36 slef         but that's minimum
17:36 slef         snap
17:36 jcamins      Yup.
17:37 slef         do you log your time?
17:37 jcamins      I log my time for everything other than RM duties.
17:37 slef         might be interesting to quantify aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh
17:37 jcamins      Yeah.
17:37 jcamins      I'll start doing that as of now, though, since it's a good point.
17:37 slef         I can mail you a perl time-logger if you like, but you probably have your own tools.
17:38 jcamins      I use an online system so that I can tap a large red button on my phone when I start things.
17:40 slef         the perl one is hooked up to ours. I don't use it. I use emacs (surprise, huh?) except when travelling. What's yours, if it's FOSS?
17:41 jcamins      I actually paid for a subscription to Harvest.
17:42 jcamins      I tried a couple of FOSS systems first, but none of them were as streamlined, and a time logger is useless if it's too much trouble to remember to use it.
17:46 jcamins      Though I've been using OpenERP for other things and liking it, so I may try and figure out a streamlined interface to its time tracking.
17:56 slef         Yeah, we're building our FOSS system up at the moment.
17:56 slef         We didn't get on with OpenERP or Tryton, and having more members than FTE workers means that most subscription services quickly become uneconomic for us.
17:57 jcamins      When I decided to go with Harvest I had several projects that I billed in 6-minute increments which I switched between frequently, so I just needed something immediately.
18:29 tcohen       oleonard, do we have a function to set the language in the cookie?
18:29 oleonard     I don't know about that tcohen, sorry.
18:29 tcohen       i've managed to set the language using URL parameters
18:30 tcohen       but didn't find a proper way to make it persistent setting the cookies
18:30 jcamins      tcohen: take a look at how opac-changelanguage.pl does it.
18:30 jcamins      Lunch time!
18:32 rangi        C4::Templates::setlanguagecookie
18:38 tcohen       rangi, thanks, I saw it, but it does a redirect also, and I'm not sure how to have to cookie object at that level
18:41 jcamins      tcohen: probably you could just tell it to redirect to the page you wanted to go to in the first place?
18:52 tcohen       i'l think about it, maybe a no-redirectio version would be the best
18:54 tcohen       jcamins, done
18:54 jcamins      Yay!
19:19 tcohen       is there something about koha design patterns on the wiki?
19:19 jcamins      Not to my knowledge.
20:03 tcohen       bye #koha, have a nice weekend every1
20:17 tweetbot`    [off] twitter: @ByWaterSolution: "Roseville Public Library Chooses ByWater Solutions’ Koha Support http://t.co/eV1Tp9JKOX #kohails"
20:18 oleonard     jcamins: Bug 9663 says "Pushed" but I don't think it was
20:18 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9663 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Individual bibliographic record "Save" option requires export permission
20:19 jcamins      Looks pushed to me.
20:21 jcamins      Yup, commit 204a35f889b917c85dd8da716c67fe87657b5b98
20:21 oleonard     Okay, must be a problem on my branch. Thanks for checking
20:28 oleonard     I don't understand where we are with Bug 9456
20:28 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9456 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Failed QA , Add callnumber column to the cart
20:28 jcamins      I objected to the fact that before the patch I could figure out what library an item was at, and after the patch I could not.
20:28 oleonard     My patch is passed QA, but so is a patch that undoes the changes my patch made?
20:30 jcamins      I think the follow-up was supposed to eliminate the table, which we're trying to avoid using for layout?
20:30 jcamins      That was what I got out of the discussion.
20:30 jcamins      I had understood that the appearance was the same both with and without the follow-up.
20:30 jcamins      I did not check.
20:31 jcamins      If the original patch adds something useful and leaves the screen readable, I could push it.
20:32 jcamins      I did not look at the two patches separately.
20:32 jcamins      I mean, I reviewed the code for both patches, but not the result.
20:32 jcamins      Or started reviewing before I realized that I wasn't going to push it no matter what.
20:34 oleonard     Unfortunately looking at it now I think git's auto-merge breaks the table-sorting in my patch
20:34 jcamins      Ah.
21:08 oleonard     I've attached a rebased patch to 9456, FWIW. khall and I differ about the best way to approach it.
21:09 jcamins      I am going to go with whichever patch results in improvements we can use without causing any regressions.
21:16 oleonard     Have a good weekend #koha
21:23 cait         aaaw
21:24 * cait       wonders who is to blame for the motd
21:24 jcamins      Happy birthday!
21:24 * jcamins    throws confetti.
21:27 cait         hm it's too early jcamins :)
21:28 cait         only 22:25 here :) but I appreaciate the thought :)
21:28 jcamins      Oh.
21:38 cait         well... becasue you are not in nz
21:39 cait         timzones are confusing
21:39 jcamins      They are.
21:39 * cait       nods
21:43 cjh          #koha birthday party for cait \o/
21:44 cait         lol
21:44 cait         :)
21:44 cait         I decided to change the versioning with this birthday.... it will be "katrin release cookie dough icecream" maybe
21:44 jcamins      Hehe.
21:44 jcamins      I like this idea.
21:52 Jlozano      I got the server installed a couple of days ago, deleted the sample libraries, added some patrons... life is good.  I'm not gonna push it until next week
21:53 jcamins      Excellent!
21:53 jcamins      What kind of library do you have?
21:53 cait         and which vresion did you install? :)
21:53 jcamins      That's also a good question.
21:53 Jlozano      well, we have Sirsi Dynex and I'm exploring how we can get from under that bill.
21:53 Jlozano      it's our university library.
21:54 Jlozano      about 80K items.
21:54 cait         oh, where are you located? :)
21:54 Jlozano      Charlotte, NC Queens University of Charlotte.
21:54 Jlozano      Installed v 3.8
21:54 Jlozano      tried 3.10 but wouln't install.
21:54 cait         and I was wondering about the koha version because there is sometimes some confusion about the different versions - so best to make sure you get it right :)
21:55 Jlozano      something about pearl, blah, blah, blah.
21:56 jcamins      Really? Hm. It should install smoothly.
21:56 Jlozano      I have two instances, I have one on Amazon AWS and I bought a Linode server for the month.
21:56 rangi        did you use the packages or the tarball?
21:56 Jlozano      pkgs.
21:56 Jlozano      followed the "Koha in 11 mins" youtube video.
21:56 rangi        never heard of that
21:57 jcamins      Nor have I.
21:57 Jlozano      yeah, youtube, a dude at AppState university did it.
21:57 rangi        http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.x_on_Debian_Squeeze
21:57 Jlozano      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRbyePlN-QY
21:57 jcamins      I guess someone should probably watch it, confirm that it's correct.
21:58 Jlozano      It got me up and running.
21:58 cait         my internet connection si not stable enough...
21:58 * jcamins    isn't at home.
21:58 rangi        if it follows that wiki page, it will be ok
21:59 jcamins      I guess the fact that Jlozano didn't have any problems suggests that it does.
21:59 Jlozano      It does, however it does begin on how go get the server, and devian version ETC.
21:59 Jlozano      and shows you how you can essentially get a free server for a year on AWS Amazon.
22:00 jcamins      Most people who try to follow a set of instructions that aren't the same as the recommended ones end up on #koha asking for help unbreaking their installation. :)
22:00 Jlozano      750 hrs a month anyway, which is convenient, because that's how many hours there are in a month.
22:00 jcamins      Hehe.
22:00 rangi        hmm 3.10.03 installed ok just now for me .. if you get a chance to try again sometime if you could document exactly the error you get that would be good
22:00 Jlozano      yeah, when I do a production run on it, I will, right now it's just research on the system.
22:00 Jlozano      I haven't even tried to put in a volume.
22:01 cait         38 has not the same feature set as 3.10 :)
22:01 cait         koha is moving quite fast between versions
22:01 Jlozano      The basic error was that it didn't get past dependency check pearl not installed and nothing happened.
22:01 * jcamins    would guess it was the dependency on digest-jhash, which we removed from the dependency list since it didn't play nicely with multiarch systems.
22:03 Jlozano      how long ago? I wonder if I should try again.
22:03 Jlozano      What would you say it's the main reason to be on .10 v .8?
22:04 jcamins      Um, it was removed yesterday.
22:05 cait         many people still run older versions - but maybe take a look at rlease notes sometime
22:05 jcamins      I use 3.6.x in production.
22:05 cait         yep we do that too
22:05 jcamins      We've been talking about upgrading to 3.8.x.
22:05 jcamins      But I keep on getting gun-shy when it's time to pull the trigger.
22:05 cait         but if you plan a migration it#s most often a longer timeframe I was thinking
22:07 Jlozano      well, I might be image and install 3.10 if that dependency thing is not a problem anymore.
22:07 Jlozano      * reimage I mean.
22:08 Jlozano      To be honest I just have to get my marc records in a row first tho.
22:08 jcamins      cait: true.
22:08 drojf        good evening #koha
22:09 drojf        cait: it is still an hour in our timezone, right? (topic)
22:09 cait         yep
22:09 cait         :)
22:09 drojf        ok :)
22:09 cait         :)
22:10 Jlozano      Anybody ever talk to anyone from bywater? are the ever on here?
22:11 drojf        which anyone would you like? ;)
22:11 jcamins      bag: around?
22:11 cait         Jlozano: they are around quite a bit
22:11 cait         melia: around?
22:11 jcamins      NateC: around?
22:11 melia        yep I'm here
22:12 jcamins      ^^ there you go. Someone from ByWater.
22:12 NateC        Im hea
22:12 jcamins      ^^ and another
22:12 cait         and another one
22:12 drojf        heh
22:12 NateC        jlozano: we are always here :)
22:13 bag          hey
22:13 Jlozano      ah, nice!
22:14 jcamins      (bag = Brendan Gallagher, NateC = Nate Curulla, and melia = Melia Meggs)
22:14 NateC        jlozano: you have the two owners and the COO at your service!
22:15 Jlozano      I think I talked with someone from there but it was some time ago.
22:15 Jlozano      wow.
22:15 Jlozano      You guys are the real deal I guess.
22:16 NateC        heh
22:16 drojf        only important people on #koha. important people and me.
22:16 rangi        heh
22:16 drojf        i. myself. whatever. late
22:17 jcamins      drojf: "me" was okay there. "I" is considered to sound overly stuffy.
22:17 cait         lol
22:17 * cait       hands drojf cookies
22:17 cait         now exactly how you feel
22:17 drojf        cookies \o/
22:17 cait         know
22:17 cait         ...
22:17 drojf        lol
22:18 jcamins      Jlozano: you'll find that the denizens of #koha include some rather impressive individuals. rangi was the original author of the first version of Koha, and cait is the Quality Assurance Manager for the project.
22:19 cait         um.
22:19 * cait       goes into hiding
22:19 rangi        and jcamins is the 3.12 release manager
22:19 Jlozano      wow, it's nice to know everyone is still involved.  So many people bail on projects.
22:20 jcamins      I have a puzzle for you: who files "De Bie" under *B*?
22:20 cait         hm
22:20 jcamins      ("De Bie" being a last name)
22:20 cait         if it was afrench lastname it would be correct
22:20 Jlozano      oh, that would be me.
22:20 cait         but i have no idea what it is
22:21 jcamins      Jlozano: hehe.
22:21 cait         at least it would be in rak
22:21 cait         Jlozano: koha is quite international too :)
22:21 cait         so almost always someone is here.. except for weekends
22:21 cait         then it's a bit more quiet and I have to talk to myself most of the time
22:22 melia        ha!
22:22 jcamins      cait: it's possible he's German.
22:22 jcamins      De Bie, that is.
22:22 Jlozano      that's awesome!
22:22 jcamins      However, he is definitely "De Bie" not "de Bie."
22:22 Jlozano      Hey anybody know a free dewey generator?
22:22 cait         De Bie doens't look german to me, drojf?
22:23 jcamins      cait: no, not at all German.
22:23 jcamins      Hence the reason I think that "de" is probably not an article that can be stuck at the end.
22:23 jcamins      (that is, he was German, the name is not)
22:24 cait         well
22:24 cait         it would be french
22:24 rangi        Jlozano: i think the copyright (or is it patent) on dewey would stop that
22:24 cait         not german for the article I think
22:24 jcamins      Really? That's definitely not the way it works in AACR2.
22:24 rangi        trademark
22:24 jcamins      You go based on where people would actually look for a person.
22:24 cait         i mean de something is more a french last name than a german one
22:25 rangi        gah oclc you clowns
22:25 rangi        http://www.oclc.org/news/releases/20031124.htm
22:25 cait         jcamins: I forgot the exact rle for that... and they changed some stuff for gnd I guess
22:26 tweetbot`    [off] twitter: @kohails: "#kohails  Roseville Public Library Chooses ByWater Solutions’ Koha Support http://t.co/2hB3aD7mRv"
22:26 jcamins      cait: anyway, my point is, De Bie should be filed under D with all his relatives.
22:26 jcamins      (Debie)
22:27 jcamins      Jlozano: as you may have gathered, I am also a cataloger, and right now I am using my least favorite bibliography ever.
22:27 drojf        looks dutch to me
22:27 drojf        de bie i mean
22:27 jcamins      drojf: that may be. But if his son (brother? nephew?) is filed under "Debie," he should be too.
22:28 rangi        what does viaf say
22:28 Jlozano      jcamins: hate that stuff.
22:28 jcamins      rangi: it agrees with me.
22:28 Jlozano      ok, all, nice to meet everyone, but it's way past 5 on a friday... see you all later.
22:28 cait         Jlozano: what I wanted to say earlier - jcamins is in new york, drojf and me are from germany and rangi is nz :)
22:29 Jlozano      ahhh. internationall indeed.
22:29 jcamins      Ooh, you're right, cait. DNB does it wrong!
22:29 rangi        its 11.26 am on saturday actually
22:29 rangi        ;)
22:29 cait         nooo
22:29 cait         23:26 on friday
22:29 jcamins      I have to agree with Jlozano.
22:31 rangi        we should use more marc
22:31 wahanui      http://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/01-how-about-no-bear.jpg?w=800
22:31 * rangi      giggles
22:31 jcamins      Hehe.
22:31 Jlozano      lol, well, it's past 1700 EST!  gotta go!
22:32 Jlozano      later
22:33 jcamins      Heh.
22:33 jcamins      Guess everyone noticed the time.
22:43 bag          @wunder 93102
22:43 huginn       bag: The current temperature in Westside, Santa Barbara, California is 29.2°C (2:39 PM PST on March 01, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 10%. Dew Point: -5.0°C. Pressure: 30.22 in 1023 hPa (Falling).
22:43 bag          29!!!  it's stinking hot outside
22:44 drojf        @wunder berlin, germany
22:44 huginn       drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 2.5°C (11:13 PM CET on March 01, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: -4.0°C. Windchill: 1.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Steady).
22:44 drojf        it's all yours if you want it
22:45 rangi        29 is pretty warm for march isnt it?
22:47 jcamins      @wunder lubbock, tx
22:47 huginn       jcamins: The current temperature in WT_Meso Lubbock 3W, Lubbock, Texas is 11.7°C (4:30 PM CST on March 01, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 22%. Dew Point: -9.0°C. Pressure: 30.25 in 1024 hPa (Rising).
22:47 bag          well not crazy - May June and July is colder for us
22:48 bag          We have june gloom that whole time - just cloud cover
22:48 tcohen       @wunder cordoba, argentia
22:48 huginn       tcohen: Error: No such location could be found.
22:48 tcohen       @wunder cordoba, argentina
22:48 huginn       tcohen: The current temperature in Cordoba, Argentina is 32.0°C (7:00 PM ART on March 01, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 49%. Dew Point: 20.0°C. Pressure: 29.53 in 1000 hPa (Falling).
22:49 jcamins      @wunder riyadh, saudi arabia
22:49 huginn       jcamins: The current temperature in King Khaled, Saudi Arabia is 21.0°C (1:00 AM AST on March 02, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 27%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
22:49 jcamins      @wunder dubai, uae
22:49 huginn       jcamins: The current temperature in Dubai, UAE is 22.0°C (2:00 AM GST on March 02, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 60%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Falling).
22:49 bag          @wunder death valley national park ca
22:49 huginn       bag: The current temperature in RAWS HUNTER MOUNTAIN CA US, Keeler, California is 15.0°C (2:23 PM PST on March 01, 2013). Conditions: . Humidity: 16%. Dew Point: -11.0°C. Pressure: 30.69 in 1039.2 hPa.
22:49 bag          HA
22:49 bag          @wunder baker ca
22:49 huginn       bag: The current temperature in Daggett-Barstow, California is 23.0°C (1:50 PM PST on March 01, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 11%. Dew Point: -10.0°C. Pressure: 30.29 in 1026 hPa (Falling).
22:52 cait         @wunder dortmund
22:52 huginn       cait: The current temperature in Stadtkrone Ost, Dortmund, Germany is 1.6°C (11:40 PM CET on March 01, 2013). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: -1.0°C. Windchill: 2.0°C. Pressure: 30.30 in 1026 hPa (Steady).
22:53 bag          rangi I'm thinking of taking Ginny pie to a baseball game tomorrow
22:53 bag          I've got a full mets jersey/onsesie to dress her in :P
22:54 rangi        ohh awesome
22:54 cait         :)
22:55 bag          yeah first time for everything right (HA :P )
22:55 bag          I vote that jcamins hosts a kohacon or maybe a NY hackfest - so we can go to a mets game (but then also guessing jcamins isn't a baseball fan)
23:02 jcamins      I enjoyed minor league games.
23:02 jcamins      Major league I found incredibly dull.
23:02 bag          ahhh  jcamins my opinion of you just increased 100 fold!
23:02 bag          jcamins++
23:02 bag          (and in no way was I saying it was bad - just saying it's much better now :) )
23:02 jcamins      :)
23:02 rangi        ive only ever been to one game
23:02 rangi        and that was at kohacon09
23:02 bag          rangi knew way more about baseball than I ever knew about cricket (but that has changed) and knew why more than schuster and paul_p combined
23:02 cait         lol
23:02 cait         wish i had been there :)
23:02 rangi        oleonard was there too
23:02 drojf        i'm not going to say that i have no idea how these things work
23:02 cait         drojf: more cookies?
23:02 tcohen       is baseball watching enjoyable?
23:02 tcohen       (i'm asking just because I don't even understand the rules)
23:02 jcamins      tcohen: I found the minor league enjoyable.
23:03 jcamins      Things actually happen.
23:03 jcamins      Well, sort of.
23:03 drojf        HAPPY CET BIRTHDAY cait!! :)
23:03 bgkriegel    cait: Happy birthday!! :)
23:03 cait         CET? :)
23:03 cait         thank you drojf and bgkriegel :)
23:03 cait         ah a timezone thingy
23:03 tcohen       hey cait, please tell kf "happy birtdhay"
23:03 drojf        central european time. isn't that what we live in? :)
23:03 bag          if you go with some that point out some of the finer (strategy points)  it's really good.  but otherwise it does seem like a lot of standing around
23:04 cait         heh I will tcohen :)
23:04 bag          it's really interesting to watch the small little things that happen on each pitch (it's a mind game more than crazy endurance)
23:04 bag          happy birthday cait!
23:05 tcohen       bag: i'll give it a try some day
23:05 cait         thx bag
23:05 * cait       gets out the birthday cake
23:08 drojf        cake \o/
23:13 rangi        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5kUPIbINbE
23:15 tcohen       oh, i've always thought of cricket as something reminiscent to golf
23:16 tcohen       now I know crocket and cricket are not the same thing
23:16 tcohen       hehehe
23:16 drojf        lol
23:17 rangi        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEwCaxx1OJo
23:18 rangi        on any given week there are around 55,000 games of cricket played in india :)
23:20 tcohen       interesting sport
23:26 drojf        interesting
23:26 wahanui      well, interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
23:26 drojf        :)
23:33 cait         good night all :)
23:33 drojf        good night cait