Time  Nick           Message
00:09 eythian        wahanui: cory doctorow is not a real doctor.
00:09 wahanui        ...but cory doctorow is not a real Doctor....
00:09 eythian        oh right
00:56 rangi          C4::Search?
00:56 wahanui        https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7044751872/hE32ABD60/
00:57 wizzyrea       omg.
00:59 cjh            lol
01:13 Dyrcona        :)
01:13 dcook          hehe
01:36 mtj            wow , just spotted this -> http://bywatersolutions.com/2012/02/02/six-libraries-partner-to-bring-dom-biblio-indexing-to-koha/
01:37 mtj            bywater++ equinox++
01:44 tweetbot`      [off] twitter: @IrmaLibraries: "Check out libraries working together for open source #kohails DOM indexing enhancement http://t.co/aenonTps"
01:50 mtj            ^^ yeah, what she said… :p
02:57 wizzyrea       http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/21_million_per_day we should do something like this koha vs sirsi
02:59 jcamins_away   Blurgh. Sometimes XSLT is a real nightmare.
03:00 wizzyrea       ya think?
03:00 jcamins_away   I want to convert the first bit into the second bit: http://paste.koha-community.org/392
03:05 eythian        I like how it considers Dunedin to be the centre of NZ
03:06 mtj            wizzyrea++ awesome idea
03:06 wizzyrea       and what's with the kansas-area huge US dot. or is that just "from the US"
03:06 wizzyrea       that must be what eythian is saying.
03:06 wizzyrea       hm that is odd. strange.
03:06 wizzyrea       but yes
03:06 wizzyrea       the idea, i like
03:07 wizzyrea       of course our downloads are nowhere near that
03:07 cjh            we can scale a bit :P
03:07 wizzyrea       well because a person could download OO for multiple computers
03:07 mtj            i think the dot is sposed to be center of each country
03:07 wizzyrea       when someone downloads koha it's probably once, maybe twice
03:08 wizzyrea       and we can't really track git clones or package installes
03:08 wizzyrea       installs*
03:08 wizzyrea       can we?
03:08 wizzyrea       so it would probably be self reporting
03:09 wizzyrea       @quote get 123
03:10 wahanui        http://xkcd.com/1172/
03:10 huginn         wizzyrea: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
03:10 wizzyrea       I just wanted to laugh at that cartoon again.
03:10 mtj            liz, ive always dreamt of a 'submit info to kc.org' feature, for koha
03:10 wizzyrea       yep, I know :)
03:12 mtj            lol
03:12 mtj            one day…. !
03:16 wizzyrea       yuss bug 9611
03:16 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9611 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , Changing the password hashing algorithm from MD5 to more secure Bcrypt
03:17 wizzyrea       ^^^ really really important
03:20 mtj            nice, i'll test it later tonite
03:21 mtj            … after my space-bar cools down
03:22 wizzyrea       hehehehehe
03:24 dcook          Ohhh, I like that idea, mtj
03:25 * dcook        shudders at cartoon
03:25 wizzyrea       that is like, life as a koha developer.
03:26 wizzyrea       "III is broken. Can you make Koha do it like III did?"
03:26 wizzyrea       what? why?!
03:43 dcook          Hehe
03:44 dcook          [off] I have almost the exact same problem atm
03:44 dcook          I sometimes wonder what it would be like to be a dedicated systems person in a single branch library or even for just one library system
03:45 wizzyrea       it's not so much different, heh.
03:45 dcook          I was just about to write that, haha
03:45 wizzyrea       just a laser focus on your micro problems, instead of the macro focus you get otherwise
03:45 dcook          Pretty much, eh?
03:46 dcook          Does the icon come in cornflower blue?
03:46 wizzyrea       funny you should say cornflower
03:46 wizzyrea       it was the color I was trying to think of earlier
03:46 wizzyrea       no not THAT shade of cornflower.
03:47 wizzyrea       http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Bachelor%27s_button,_Basket_flower,_Boutonniere_flower,_Cornflower_-_3.jpg
03:47 wizzyrea       that is not at all the color I would call "cornflower"
03:48 wizzyrea       http://img.ehowcdn.com/article-new/ehow/images/a06/ai/od/mix-colors-make-cornflower-blue-800x800.jpg that's closer
03:48 dcook          Mmm, true enough
03:49 wizzyrea       what is the deal with girls taking pictures of their fingernails.
03:49 dcook          lol
03:49 wizzyrea       strange internet thing.
03:49 dcook          Now it is funny that you mention that
03:49 dcook          My partner has a pet peeve about that, which I hear about every few weeks :p
03:49 dcook          I just tell her to stop going on Instagram
03:50 wizzyrea       follow different people is the solution I ahve
03:50 dcook          Mmm, that's another one I proposed
03:50 dcook          Shot down both times
03:50 wizzyrea       also koha-mysql = best idea
03:50 dcook          She also wasn't a fan of the "Future koha developer" onesie. I don't know about her..
03:50 wizzyrea       evar
03:51 dcook          O_o
03:51 * wizzyrea     resists the urge to suggest you dump her
03:51 wizzyrea       i am sure that she has many fine qualities
03:52 wizzyrea       or huge... tracts of land.
03:52 dcook          I'm going to go with the many other fine qualities, and firm yet supple tight embrace.
03:54 dcook          I didn't realize that you were actually in Kansas
03:54 * wizzyrea     is actually not
03:54 dcook          Crafty
03:54 wizzyrea       anymore :)
03:54 dcook          I still go by Canadian Librarian. I figure I can keep the adjective so long as I keep my accent :p
03:55 wizzyrea       haha!
03:55 * wizzyrea     wonders where you got kansas from
03:57 dcook          LinkedIn and then the comment above about Kansas
03:57 dcook          Check your inbox :p
03:58 wizzyrea       ohhh
03:58 jcamins_away   Ha! I have stylesheets to HTMLize and deHTMLize my records!
03:59 dcook          Excellent, jcamins_away!
03:59 dcook          ...why?
03:59 wizzyrea       oh, I should change linkedin
03:59 dcook          Damned personal identity management, eh?
04:00 * dcook        still has a few websites from the past to change/remove
04:00 jcamins_away   dcook: so I don't have to use TinyMCE's sharply limited XML support.
04:00 jcamins_away   http://paste.koha-community.org/393
04:00 jcamins_away   ^^ the XSLT
04:00 jcamins_away   The weird PHP is just the xml declaration.
04:01 jcamins_away   And disregard the <textarea> tags, that just seemed like the simplest way to stick them inline.
04:02 wizzyrea       well now it's proper :P
04:03 wizzyrea       ok I'm outtie
04:03 wizzyrea       later peeps :)
04:03 dcook          Ahh, I thought that you were in NZ
04:03 dcook          Glad to know I'm not the only North American down here :p
04:03 * jcamins_away has successfully erased the record while trying to save it.
04:03 jcamins_away   Whoops.
04:04 dcook          later, wizzyrea
04:04 dcook          Eeep, jcamins_away
04:04 dcook          Alas, I'm not sure that I follow your XSLT, but...gotta go
04:04 * jcamins_away is leaving as well, actually.
05:42 rangi          we should run stats on teh package downloads
05:42 rangi          i have stats for the tarballs
05:42 rangi          the packages are just served by a webserver, so we will have access logs for them
05:53 mtj            oooh, thats a good idea
05:54 dcook          Stats! Stats!
05:59 mtj            bbiab...
05:59 wahanui        bbiab is Be Back In A Bit
06:04 rangi          perhaps not the best lullaby to show my kids before be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc20vMz0V7Q
06:45 dcook          Salut paul_p, et bon soir, #koha
06:47 * francharb    waves
07:29 * magnuse      waves
07:30 alex_a_        hello
07:31 magnuse        bonjour alex_a_
07:31 magnuse        @wunder marseille
07:31 huginn         magnuse: The current temperature in Marseille, France is -1.0°C (8:00 AM CET on February 14, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 69%. Dew Point: -6.0°C. Windchill: -6.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady).
07:32 magnuse        freezing!
07:32 magnuse        @wunder boo
07:32 huginn         magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 0.0°C (8:20 AM CET on February 14, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 60%. Dew Point: -7.0°C. Windchill: -7.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Falling).
07:32 magnuse        hah!
07:32 magnuse        ;-)
07:32 magnuse        @wunder konstanz
07:32 huginn         magnuse: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is -6.3°C (8:30 AM CET on February 14, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: -7.0°C. Windchill: -6.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Rising).
07:32 magnuse        wow!
07:34 magnuse        poor cait
07:34 cait           staying in my warm home today
07:34 cait           so not that poor
07:34 cait           ok, have to study... so yeah, you are right
07:34 magnuse        ooh, good idea!
07:35 magnuse        staying in, i mean
07:47 reiveune       hello
07:47 wahanui        niihau, reiveune
08:02 asaurat        hi
08:02 wahanui        salut, asaurat
08:06 cait           hi asaurat :)
08:09 gaetan_B       hello
08:44 mtj            bonjour francharb, magnuse, reiveune, asaurat,  gaetan_B, cait
08:45 cait           hi mtj :)
08:45 francharb      0/ mtj
08:45 magnuse        kia ora mtj
08:45 reiveune       salut mtj
08:46 mtj            which biblibrians are in India… just paul.p?
08:46 rangi          oh mtj you'll enjoy this
08:46 rangi          C4::Search?
08:46 wahanui        https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7044751872/hE32ABD60/
08:46 magnuse        mtj: yup, think so
08:47 magnuse        tee hee
08:47 mtj            note to self, never drink on the job
08:49 mtj            wow, i wonder what the story is behind that photo - some kids joy-riding the vehicle?
08:49 rangi          [off] kados driving it
08:50 mtj            [off] kados spearheading it :p
08:51 jenkins_koha   Starting build #271 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
08:55 sophie_m       mtj: yes, only Paul is in India
08:55 sophie_m       hello #koha
08:56 rangi          hi sophie_m
09:02 magnuse        moin drojf
09:03 drojf          hei magnuse
09:03 drojf          cait++
09:04 cait           hm?
09:10 mtj            ok, heres a random jscript/jquery Q….
09:11 mtj            has anyone bumped into a problem/solution for loading js files… and not being able to see/debug them, in firebug?
09:12 mtj            the solution seems to be… use a hacked version of jQuery.getScript()?
09:14 mtj            on locally pathed files, to force them to be loaded as absolute urls - so they show in firebug/chrome's debugger
09:15 mtj            ...surely some other poor soul has hit this problem?
09:16 cait           ?
09:16 cait           what are you trying to do?
09:17 drojf          mtj: you want them to show, but they don't, not the other way round?
09:18 mtj            i'm trying to add breakpoints, and step thru a .js file… that wont show in my debugger
09:18 mtj            .. but is successfully being executed by my browser
09:25 drojf          not a direct answer to your question, but newer firefoxes have some fancy web developer stuff too, maybe it shows in there?
09:28 mtj            its basically this problem, for the curious… -> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/690781/debugging-scripts-added-via-jquery-getscript-function
09:28 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.8.x build #271: SUCCESS in 37 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/271/
09:28 jenkins_koha   * Chris Cormack: test
09:28 jenkins_koha   * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 9502 - famfamfam wronly linked in 3.8.x
09:28 jenkins_koha   * Fridolyn SOMERS: Bug 9222: manual history reversed in subscription-detail.pl
09:28 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9502 minor, P5 - low, ---, chris, Signed Off , famfamfam: wrongly placed in package 3.8.8/9
09:28 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9222 minor, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Pushed to Stable , manual history reversed in subscription-detail.pl
09:29 jenkins_koha   Starting build #63 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
09:29 mtj            … and this too  -> http://techmonks.net/getscript-and-firebug-code/
09:29 drojf          that's an interesting problem
09:37 mtj            yeah, the good news is… the fix is working for me
09:38 mtj            btu, what im stuck on is, i cant work out how to move my new getScript2 function into a new file.js
09:39 mtj            .. and have another .js file call that function() in that other file
09:39 mtj            all pretty trivial stuff… thats just not quite working, atm :/
09:45 mtj            .
09:45 mtj            ok , got it... :)
09:46 mtj            i cheated and just loaded it inline
09:46 mtj            <script type="text/JavaScript" src="/mystuff/getScript2.js"></script>
09:48 drojf          :)
10:09 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.10.x build #63: SUCCESS in 40 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.10.x/63/
10:09 jenkins_koha   * Kyle M Hall: Bug 9380 - branch not recording right on writeoff
10:09 jenkins_koha   * Fridolyn SOMERS: Bug 9222: manual history reversed in subscription-detail.pl
10:09 jenkins_koha   * Owen Leonard: Bug 9583 - OPAC cart button display problem in Chromium
10:09 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9380 critical, P1 - high, ---, kyle, Pushed to Stable , branch not recording right on writeoff
10:09 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9222 minor, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Pushed to Stable , manual history reversed in subscription-detail.pl
10:09 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9583 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , OPAC cart button display problem in Chromium
10:09 jenkins_koha   Starting build #272 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
10:25 alohabot       Hi mib_a92qkg, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
10:39 drojf          heh. scared off by the bot
10:46 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.8.x build #272: SUCCESS in 36 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/272/
10:46 jenkins_koha   * Owen Leonard: Bug 9583 - OPAC cart button display problem in Chromium
10:46 jenkins_koha   * Chris Cormack: Revert "test"
10:46 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9583 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , OPAC cart button display problem in Chromium
12:02 tweetbot`      [off] twitter: @YvesTomic: "Découvrez le service Biblio+ pour enrichir l'OPAC de Koha : http://t.co/qpWDwjHf #koha #kohails #sudoc"
12:54 * drojf        can't reproduce paul_p's problem with the paid support page
13:11 * magnuse      neither
13:16 oleonard       Hi #koha
13:42 slef           hi
13:42 wahanui        salut, slef
13:43 slef           [off] drojf: we suffered some data loss last summer, we need to recover videos from backups, needs worker time we just can't pay for right now, but I will take requests for which videos to do first.
14:03 drojf          [off] slef: ouch :( i have no desires in particular, i thought they are up already and it's just me who cannot find them. no pressure from my side then, it's done when it's done
14:38 mtj            hey oleonard, about?
14:38 oleonard       yes
14:39 mtj            im just looking at this old bug 8679
14:39 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8679 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, RESOLVED FIXED, Remove usage of Amazon API
14:39 mtj            and… i cant see how amazon cover-images would still work after the patch?!
14:40 oleonard       Amazon cover images don't rely on the API
14:40 oleonard       They're all HTTP
14:40 oleonard       <img src="path/to/amazon/ ISBN from Koha">
14:40 mtj            aaah, too easy :)
14:41 mtj            hey, while you are about… i have another idea that have been meaning to ask you about…
14:42 * oleonard     checks the clock, wonders if mtj needs a glass of warm milk or a bottle of Nyquil
14:42 mtj            .. its basically a patch to force the creation of customised opac divs, *even* if the syspref contains no content
14:43 oleonard       Why?
14:43 mtj            like OpacMainUserBlock and OpacNav, etc...
14:45 mtj            because people would find those divs/spans very useful for jquery manipulation… if they existed
14:46 mtj            im doing some opac customising with jquery atm - and as a work-around, im having to paste <hidden> stuff, into each syspref
14:47 oleonard       In the case of OpacNav, the whole column isn't displayed if there is no content. Not sure how you'd accommodate those who really didn't want anything there
14:47 mtj            … to get it to 'appear' on the page,  so i can insert new content into it, etc
14:47 oleonard       mtj, is there not some kind of meaningful placeholder text you can enter?
14:47 mtj            yeah, i've noticed that one is a uniq problem
14:48 mtj            welll, ive currently got … div style="display: none;">DONT DELETE ME!!!!</div>
14:49 oleonard       By meaningful I mean, meaningful to someone who might visit the page with javascript disabled for instance
14:49 mtj            … not sure how 'meaningful' that is to the client
14:49 cait           mtj: what about <-- some other information goes here -->?
14:49 cait           well with <!--
14:49 magnuse        that will look cool for users without javascript enabled ;-)
14:50 mtj            so, with the exeption of OpacNav, *would* my patch be a problem?
14:52 oleonard       The problem is that we don't know how others have customized those areas. It could be that folks have applied a style to those areas which would show even with no content (background color, border, etc)
14:53 mtj            hmm, that seems pretty unlikely?!
14:54 oleonard       It doesn't to me. A custom background or border for OpacMainUserBlock content?
14:55 mtj            A custom background or border for OpacMainUserBlock content… that doesnt exist?!
14:56 oleonard       mtj: Consider an OPAC where the content changes, but the CSS is static.
14:56 oleonard       Sometimes there is something in OpacMainUserBlock, sometimes there isn't.
14:56 oleonard       Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it never happens. But it seems like there are better ways to solve your particular problem.
14:57 oleonard       I liked cait's suggestion of a comment if you're unable to put meaningful content there for non-js users.
14:59 cait           I think I am with oleonard
14:59 mtj            meh, its a pretty brittle/unsatisfing solultion to me
14:59 cait           having something around without content seems weird tome :)
14:59 cait           only blowing up the html
14:59 cait           even yes, tiny little bit
15:00 mtj            if its a useful patch, the increase in size is worth it
15:01 mtj            and, its not weird - its *useful*
15:01 cait           :)
15:03 oleonard       mtj: If the addition of a couple of small comments to your system prefs is too onerous, perhaps you could look at different ways of enhancing the existing markup to provide the hooks you need
15:04 mtj            well, thats a good alternative idea, thanks
15:07 mtj            i'll see if i can add some extra ids to existing elements
15:07 cait           slides?
15:07 wahanui        kf should be writing slides
15:08 cait           study is <reply> Go back to your books!
15:08 cait           study?
15:08 wahanui        Go back to wahanui's books!
15:08 cait           um.
15:08 cait           forget study
15:08 wahanui        cait: I forgot study
15:08 oleonard       wahanui: It's always about you isn't it?
15:08 wahanui        i haven't a clue, oleonard
15:08 cait           study is <reply> Go back to \your books!
15:08 cait           study?
15:08 wahanui        Go back to your books!
15:08 oleonard       How could this book possibly be worth $1/page? http://www.alastore.ala.org/detail.aspx?ID=4019
15:12 Dyrcona        oleonard: Only $34 for the ebook! What a bargain! :p
15:14 drojf          Tips for using rotating banner ads to draw attention to website content,  a technique which brought in 3,000+ page views for a post about the new  library catalog
15:14 drojf          yes, we need a lot of that
15:15 drojf          i nominate this the most useless book of the day
15:18 drojf          i hope they have a page or two about "how to make friends by not displaying your opac to people that have cookies disabled"
15:18 drojf          because that is what they do
15:20 jcamins        Huh?
15:22 jcamins        Why wouldn't you display an OPAC to people with cookies disabled?
15:22 jcamins        I can see not allowing logins, but not displaying?
15:23 drojf          i have no idea. inferior library system? http://catalog.tscpl.org
15:23 magnuse        hey, they published a short book, so you don't have to read a long one, which will save you time and time is, as we all know, money. makes perfect sense!
15:23 drojf          i get to see the opac for a second and then i get an error
15:24 drojf          aaaah. right! that explains it, magnuse. and not seeing the opac saves me time to
15:24 drojf          too
15:24 magnuse        yup
15:24 drojf          geniuses
15:24 magnuse        saves you from reading more long books, in fact
15:24 drojf          true
15:24 oleonard       Why would you create a whole new version of delicious.com which shows a blank page if you have JS disabled?
15:25 drojf          lol
15:26 drojf          oleonard: i assume it is because google analytics needs js. why would you offer free content to people you cannot track?
15:29 * oleonard     hopes the tscpl.org folks at least see our no-cookie visits in their logs to make them think
15:31 drojf          yeah. right :P
15:31 oleonard       :)
15:46 * oleonard     cheers!
15:46 oleonard       Bug 9420
15:46 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9420 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Passed QA , Work on Bootstrap for Koha
16:03 reiveune       bye
16:11 tcohen         hi, is there a way to create an SQL report with a user provided value that is used several times?
16:11 jcamins        I don't think there is.
16:12 tcohen         i think there should :-P
16:13 jcamins        Yeah, that would definitely make sense.
16:16 tcohen         are we allowed to do things like SET @var = 2012; within reports?
16:16 jcamins        I don't think that works.
16:17 tcohen         it does :-D
16:17 jcamins        Really? Cool!
16:17 tcohen         (in mysql, didn't check on the reports)
16:18 tcohen         (sorry)
16:18 jcamins        Oh.
16:18 jcamins        I was going to be very impressed that our reports interface was sufficiently intelligent to allow for variables.
16:20 tcohen         for SQL reports it doesnt sound difficult
16:21 tcohen         we could have a small form for adding variables, right?
16:21 jcamins        Makes sense to me.
16:39 rambutan       fwiw : http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57569342-93/javascript-expert-webkit-get-your-bug-ridden-house-in-order/
16:46 oleonard       rambutan: So I shouldn't use WebKit as the rendering engine for the standalone Windows Koha client I've been developing in secret?
16:52 cait_afk       oleonard++
16:53 cait_afk       I don't know how you do it - getting so much done, but very glad you can :)
16:53 oleonard       By neglecting everything around me usually ;)
16:53 cait_afk       heh as long as it works :)
16:54 cait_afk       well... 4 of my 6 assignments are done...
16:54 cait_afk       study?
16:54 wahanui        Go back to your books!
16:58 cait_afk       *grump*
17:06 gmcharlt       @quote random
17:06 huginn         gmcharlt: Quote #60: "<owen> My 9-month-old may not be walking yet, but she's got great bib control." (added by gmcharlt at 05:31 PM, February 19, 2010)
17:06 oleonard       Well that's out of date now
17:07 gmcharlt       but it clearly needs to stick around so that she can be properly embarassed the first time she joins #koha ;)
17:08 oleonard       How about "Now that she's three my daughter has terrible authority control"
17:08 jcamins        Hehe.
17:08 gmcharlt       @quote add <oleonard> How about "Now that she's three my daughter has terrible authority control"
17:08 huginn         gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.  Quote #233 added.
17:36 cait_afk       :)
18:18 tcohen         jcamins_away: is SET @val = XX ; "too mysqlish"?
18:22 tcohen         #koha?
18:24 cait_afk       tcohen: if we worry about that... maybe it could be a 'koha syntax' that just adds the variable at the right places in the sql?
18:25 cait_afk       or maybe even easier
18:25 cait_afk       for placeholders with the same name, replace them not only once, but every time they occur in the sql
18:26 cait_afk       so if you have <<Library|branches>> and a bit further down the same again, show only one field in Koha and replace twice
18:26 tcohen         cait_afk: i was thinking of a small form for creating variables for SQL and a + button to insert them
18:26 tcohen         (in the code)
18:27 cait_afk       not sure I understand how that would work. hm.
18:27 cait_afk       so this is different to our current runtime parameters?
18:27 tcohen         first, replace every occurence of a variable for the same value (as you suggest)
18:27 tcohen         second, provide a way to make it harder to misspell them
18:28 jcamins_away   I like cait_afk's suggestion.
18:28 tcohen         yeah, me tooo, its cleaner, right?
18:30 cait_afk       i was thinking it miht be easier to understand for people who are not so technical
18:30 jcamins_away   Exactly.
18:30 * jcamins_away leaves.
18:31 tcohen         bien chbien hce
18:31 cait_afk       huh? :)
18:31 tcohen         I have focus problems
18:31 cait_afk       ah not only you
18:31 * cait_afk     goes back to her books with a loud sigh
18:32 tcohen         lol
18:35 tcohen         cait_afk: i hate it when I find this kind of code inside Koha's source...
18:35 cait_afk       hm?
18:36 tcohen         nevermind
18:39 cait_afk       scare the qam and then nevermind :P
18:42 tcohen         too much code on the .pl and no .pm for this specific functionality
18:42 tcohen         that's all
18:47 cait_afk       ah
18:47 cait_afk       yeah, probably older code
18:47 cait_afk       soem of the guided reports code is ....
18:47 cait_afk       and not very friendly about translations on top of everything.
18:48 tcohen         exactly
18:51 tcohen         bye #koha
18:51 tcohen         cait_afk: i'll fill a bug on this as soon as i get home, i promise patch for tomorrow, tennis session ahead
18:51 cait_afk       nice have fun :)
19:24 Dyrcona        @later tell jcamins_away Fun with legacy data: http://pastebin.com/2LWwCjLS
19:24 huginn         Dyrcona: The operation succeeded.
19:35 oleonard       Is there more we could do to optimize caching of Koha resources which don't change, like images, css, js?
19:36 jcamins_away   oleonard: we could probably improve our Apache/nginx configuration.
19:36 jcamins_away   Dyrcona: fun indeed.
19:37 Dyrcona        jcamins_away: Fortunately, I'm not the one dealing with it directly but offering advice to the sucker^Wadministrator over IRC.
19:44 oleonard       I see we do have 'ExpiresDefault "access plus 1 year"' for the koha-tmpl directory
19:45 cait_afk       Dyrcona: at least you got indicators :P
19:45 jcamins_away   True.
19:45 Dyrcona        :)
19:45 * oleonard     should stop poking his nose into things he doesn't understand...
19:45 Dyrcona        I don't know what ILS they come from originally, but I know it was proprietary.
19:47 jcamins_away   Dyrcona: ezcat or atriuum, I think.
19:48 Dyrcona        jcamins_away: So you've that kind of damage before, then?
19:49 * jcamins_away hasn't used data from ezcat or atriuum, but I've seen it.
19:49 cait_afk       oleonard: which things are you looking at?
19:49 oleonard       server configuration options to improve caching of static resources
19:50 oleonard       except I'm not, because I stopped
19:50 oleonard       I ask politely that someone smarter than me do so :)
19:54 cait_afk       :)
19:54 cait_afk       you are pretty smart - but maybe someone with a different area of expertise
19:54 cait_afk       or something like that :)
19:55 drojf          studyß
19:55 drojf          study?
19:55 wahanui        Go back to your books!
19:56 * wizzyrea     waves
19:56 drojf          why am i always to weak to hit shift for the '?'?
19:56 oleonard       drojf: Don't interrupt cait_afk when she's telling me how smart I am! :P
19:57 drojf          sorry :)
19:57 drojf          it was meant for me actually
19:57 oleonard       I'll bet wizzyrea knows all about configuring servers for smart caching of static resources
20:02 cait_afk       heh
20:02 * cait_afk     waves
20:02 cait_afk       i am having dinner... back to study? after that
20:02 drojf          ha. that's what you think
20:03 drojf          i had dinner and now i am tired and lazy and hang around here
20:03 cait_afk       no, that's waht I know, - so close now!
20:03 cait_afk       send in 5 out of 6 I had to send in :)
20:03 cait_afk       can't give up now, can I?
20:03 drojf          no, you can't
20:04 jcamins_away   wizzyrea++
20:29 gaetan_B       it seems koha only sends the account details email when you have manually filled the userid and password for a new borrower, am i wrong ?
20:31 cait_afk       in my tests it only worked for new borrowers - filling in all data in the big formI think
20:32 cait_afk       you can't resend it later with the password change functionality or something like that
20:32 cait_afk       it's a dangerous feature anyway :(
20:32 jcamins_away   Borrower details e-mail?
20:32 jcamins_away   I think you can disable it.
20:34 rangi          morning
20:34 cait_afk       yep
20:34 cait_afk       you have to activate it - it's off by default
20:34 cait_afk       but when you do goes out to all new patrons, regardless of category
20:34 rangi          excellent, that is how it should be
20:34 cait_afk       morning rangi
20:34 jcamins_away   So, leave it disabled.
20:35 cait_afk       I do :) just telling gaetan_B that this feature is not ideal
20:35 * jcamins_away does not see any problem with it.
20:35 cait_afk       not in a bug kind of way :)
20:35 jcamins_away   I don't have it on, and it doesn't do anything, just the way I want it.
20:36 cait_afk       jcamins_away: yep, that's the functionality part, but there is always a different story to things beside the technical details :)
20:36 gaetan_B       actuallly cait_afk i'm ok with how it works now, except for the fact it doesn't seem to send emails if you haven't filled the userid and password fields, which Koha then fill up automatically
20:36 cait_afk       gaetan_B: yeah, I don't like it because I think sending paswords plain text is not nice
20:36 gaetan_B       i thought it was a neat way to inform the patron of is userid and password without having the librarian typing them in the system
20:36 cait_afk       and we don't force people to change their passwords
20:37 gaetan_B       i thought of it as a way of initializing the account
20:37 cait_afk       yeah, I can understand why people want it - but I would like it better as a one time password they have to change maybe :) but that's just me apparently :)
20:37 jcamins_away   cait_afk: I see no use for the e-mail at all, so I don't care either way.
20:37 gaetan_B       the library can always modify the message to say patrons should log-on and modify their password now they have an account
20:38 gaetan_B       anyway, i was just wondering if it was normal that Koha doesn't send the email if you let it autofill the userid and password
20:38 gaetan_B       it seems it is :)
20:38 cait_afk       yep
20:38 rangi          sending passwords in the clear is always always always a bad idea
20:39 jcamins_away   With the existence of Mozilla Persona, I would argue that having Koha manage logins is a bad idea.
20:39 rangi          but that is at least necessary for the time being
20:39 rangi          not everyone has an email
20:39 jcamins_away   True.
20:39 jcamins_away   I'm not suggesting we eliminate the passwords.
20:40 cait_afk       and not everyone can run their own persona server
20:40 rangi          speaking of passwords
20:40 rangi          the patch from srikanth will make them a lot more secure
20:40 rangi          (its totally feasible to brute force md5 for 8 or less chars now)
20:41 rangi          and i bet 90% of ppl have short passwords :)
20:41 cait_afk       ew
20:41 cait_afk       sadly we still cant force them to rset
20:41 cait_afk       reset
20:41 rangi          no but when its accepted
20:41 rangi          ill do a followup
20:41 rangi          so on login
20:41 jcamins_away   rangi: hasn't that been possible for a long time?
20:41 rangi          yes but the time taken is feasible enough to make it worth while now
20:42 jcamins_away   Ah.
20:42 rangi          so the followup ill do is whenever someone logs in, it reencodes their password into bcrypt
20:42 rangi          so at least people using them, will get their passwords tidied up
20:43 jcamins_away   Nice!
20:43 rangi          for now, it is only new passwords, and ones that people change
20:43 rangi          which is a good start
20:43 cait_afk       it's agood start :)
20:43 rangi          but there's no reason we can't make it tidy up old ones when it sees them
20:43 cait_afk       I didn't intend to say it wasn't - it's a really good thing
20:44 rangi          oh i didnt think you had
20:45 wizzyrea       right, not everyone has an email, especially in public libraries
20:45 wizzyrea       you really can't assume ane mail address.
20:45 jcamins_away   I was not suggesting that we eliminate passwords.
20:45 wizzyrea       i'm just reiterating.
20:45 wizzyrea       :)
20:45 jcamins_away   What I'm saying is if you want to be serious about security, use something designed by security experts.
20:46 rangi          hence the shift to bcrypt :)
20:48 rangi          but yep i hope that eventually persona is the default (or somethign like it) and local passwords the exception
20:48 rangi          for now i just hope persona has staved off any idea to do a login with facebook or something mad :-)
20:48 jcamins_away   lol
20:48 wizzyrea       oh god not a facebook login.
21:00 rambutan       @seen bag
21:00 huginn         rambutan: bag was last seen in #koha 22 hours, 48 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <bag> that doesn't change the mapping - but you are correct - you should not change the mapping (it's still hardcoded in some places - like the indexing files)
21:00 bag            I'm around
21:00 bag            hi
21:09 cjh            hahaha koha facebook login
21:09 kathryn        you're a kohaface
21:15 oleonard       Some nice Open Source advocacy: http://weblog.bocoup.com/bring-out-your-bugs/
21:19 rangi          http://openhatch.org/
21:19 rangi          who wants to sign koha up to that?
21:19 * wizzyrea     sees openhatch and is reminded of feeding babies
21:21 jenkins_koha   Starting build #64 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
21:21 Dyrcona        rangi++
21:21 rangi          huh?
21:21 Dyrcona        I'm asking the Evergreen community on g+ what they think of signing up to openhatch.
21:22 rangi          ahh well i only spotted that from oleonards link :)
21:22 * jcamins_away thinks that signing Koha up to openhatch is a great idea, and looks forward to the appearance of new developers.
21:22 Dyrcona        rangi: I saw it in there, too, but after you mentioned it in channel
21:23 * rangi        was hinting he wanted someone else to sign koha up so he didnt have to :)
21:23 jcamins_away   rangi: so I guess what you're saying is that my hinting was not too subtle to be understood as "not me"?
21:23 jcamins_away   :)
21:24 rangi          hehe
21:25 Dyrcona        oleonard++ # if a bit late. :p
21:26 rangi          :)
21:28 drojf          i think the vote for GSoC is "no"
21:29 rangi          hmm 1 no, and a lot of silence
21:30 rangi          ive done gsoc mentoring before, it does take a lot of time but if there was more than me id try again
21:31 * jcamins_away doesn't particularly agree with slef's position, but is not volunteering to coordinate.
21:31 rangi          i think gmcharlt volunteered to coordinate
21:32 drojf          lol
21:32 jcamins_away   Oh, I thought he said he _had_ coordinated.
21:32 rangi          sounds like volunteering to me
21:32 rangi          hehe
21:32 jcamins_away   Heh.
21:32 * jcamins_away would probaby not be a good "official" mentor.
21:33 jcamins_away   But I'd help out with the "getting started with developing Koha," since I do that a lot.
21:33 oleonard       See you later #koha
21:34 * jcamins_away leaves as well.
21:34 jcamins_away   Good night, #koha.
21:34 drojf          ok so that is rangi, gmcharlt and jcamins_away volunteering.
21:34 drojf          cool
21:35 jcamins_away   drojf: but if you're counting me as a mentor, you have to find someone else to be the head mentor.
21:35 drojf          what body part mentor does that make you? :D
21:35 jcamins_away   So I'm almost like a negative volunteer, since my participation requires an additional person be involved.
21:36 drojf          no, you are one of the enthusiastic flagships of volunteering that will attract others
21:36 drojf          and suddenly everybody wants to be a mentor
21:37 drojf          maybe we can convince people that places are limited. and they have to sleep in a tent for three days waiting at the entrance to get a mentor job
21:37 cait_afk       lol
21:49 cjh            heh
21:51 wizzyrea       when did we turn into apple?
22:00 rangi          koya uni should document what they do and/or hire someone to support for them
22:05 rambutan       so it looks like to implement Mozilla persona on a koha web site (OPAC) it's simply a matter of putting the js code on the base page? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Persona/Quick_Setup
22:06 cait_afk       rambutan: rangi did it already - there is a patch waiting for qa I think
22:07 rambutan       OK, but independent of the patch, it seems like just putting the code on the base page of the OPAC should work, right?
22:08 rangi          no
22:08 rambutan       that's like, "N" "O" no?
22:08 bgkriegel      Hello
22:08 wahanui        what's up, bgkriegel
22:08 rangi          you have to cehck the assertion handed back, and if it is valid create a session for them in koha
22:08 rangi          bug 9587
22:08 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9587 new feature, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Allow login via mozilla persona - https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/persona/
22:09 rambutan       oh
22:09 rambutan       OH
22:09 rangi          you can see the code there
22:09 rambutan       OK, well rangi++
22:09 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.10.x build #64: SUCCESS in 49 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.10.x/64/
22:09 jenkins_koha   Fridolyn SOMERS: Bug 9104: country in CSV in overdue_notices.pl
22:09 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9104 minor, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Pushed to Stable , country in CSV in overdue_notices.pl
22:09 jenkins_koha   Starting build #273 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
22:39 gaetan_B       bye !
22:48 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.8.x build #273: SUCCESS in 38 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/273/
22:48 jenkins_koha   Fridolyn SOMERS: Bug 9104: country in CSV in overdue_notices.pl
22:48 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9104 minor, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Pushed to Stable , country in CSV in overdue_notices.pl
22:54 dcook          Whoa...there is a Koha list & site for francophones? Sweeet
22:59 bag            ha
23:10 dcook          To get listed as a support company, you need to send an email of introduction to the General Koha mailing list?
23:11 rangi          thats right
23:11 rangi          include as much info as you can, best if you can send a couple of urls to show you have actually done a koha install :)
23:12 drojf          heh
23:13 dcook          Sounds good. Thanks, rangi
23:16 jcamins_away   dcook: and your site should make it clear that you support the open source Koha software and not something else, ideally.
23:16 cait_afk       and link back to the community
23:18 bag            and stand on one foot and chew gum at the same time
23:18 bag            geeze :P
23:18 dcook          Haha, bag
23:19 dcook          The site is actually pretty good about that, it seems. Several links back to the community and explicit mention that it's open source and belongs to the community ;)
23:19 bag            you're more than golden IMO
23:20 dcook          Thanks, bag :)
23:20 drojf          [off] what has also worked: hastily put a koha logo in an arbitrary place on your not-library-related website :P
23:21 bag            [off] don't be a dick - works really well too :)
23:21 drojf          lol
23:22 bag            I'm a bit sarcastic today - sorry it will pass
23:22 * bag          feels like a ninja behing the keyboard today - good thing this isn't a talking channel
23:23 bag            damn typos
23:24 dcook          I always figured library tech people to be akin to ninjas (especially as opposed to pirates)
23:25 rangi          the other major thing to remember
23:25 rangi          being listed implies utterly no endorsement
23:26 bag            well besides saying you're awesome!  but yeah no endorsement we can subtract that utterly - it means no endorsement
23:26 drojf          that is why i would give you the direct country link that shows my company. you don't have to read about the "no endorsement" thing then
23:27 rangi          heh
23:27 dcook          We've never really had to worry much about advertising. I'd just like it to be mentioned that we're part of the community
23:28 bag            yeah we love the word of mouth :)  better than any endorsement
23:28 dcook          Exactly
23:31 jcamins_away   [off] I should get an endorsement... "C & P, Michael Jordan's favorite bibliographic services company!"
23:31 dcook          [off] I do wonder about your clientele sometimes :p
23:32 rangi          the rules are to stop the things that don't want to build up that word of mouth or get involved in the community
23:32 rangi          but want a listing so they can go
23:32 rangi          "look im an official company"
23:32 dcook          For sure. I'm all in favour of rules :D
23:33 rangi          so everyone has to play by the same rules even tho we know some companies are much more involved than others
23:33 dcook          I think this community and the name of Koha are both really important, and I think whatever can help keep them both in good standing in the larger world is important
23:33 drojf          i did not know we had so many spanish support companies
23:33 dcook          drojf: I know, right?
23:33 * dcook        apparently likes to repeat the word important a lot
23:33 rangi          heh
23:34 bag            [off] jcamins_away MJ?
23:34 bag            or is that just kidding
23:34 drojf          ha that goes right into the newsletter
23:34 jcamins_away   [off] I do not work for him. But he does lots of endorsements.
23:35 bag            [off]  oh now I get it - sorry dense - I was like no fucking way!!!  that's cool
23:36 bag            hey any of you going to the french hackfest?
23:36 * dcook        wishes
23:36 bag            bummer that is right after the freeze - but really good that it is right after the freeze so we can concentrate on bugs :)
23:36 dcook          :D
23:37 jcamins_away   bag: that was the point.
23:37 bag            actually should help focus
23:37 jcamins_away   Exactly.
23:38 bag            yeah timing is weird sometimes
23:39 bag            jcamins_away you planning on going to reno?
23:39 jcamins_away   At present, yes.
23:39 bag            presenting?
23:39 jcamins_away   I haven't decided.
23:39 jcamins_away   Probably.
23:39 bag            but at least you thought about it
23:40 bag            I had an idea awhile ago that I talked about doing with rangi - but I can't remember that at all right now
23:40 bag            good thing I wrote that down somewhere
23:40 rangi          heh
23:41 rangi          im gonna do "from librarian to coder, in 1 hour"
23:41 rangi          for the hackfest
23:41 jcamins_away   rangi: excellent, that means I don't have to do that one.
23:41 bag            maybe it was the secret way to get listed as a koha support company…
23:42 bag            I'd like to do gossip hour - tell the real story of koha from 4 years ago
23:42 dcook          :o
23:42 * dcook        wonders if there is a secret handshake and knock as well
23:42 bag            the knock is submit patches :P
23:44 dcook          Well, at least I'm in the door...:p
23:44 rangi          that gossip session could be fun
23:45 dcook          Wow...the plan is for a rather long conference
23:45 * dcook        is not opposed to this idea
23:45 rangi          thats how long they always are :)
23:45 rangi          3 days conf
23:45 rangi          1 day off, 3 days hackfest
23:46 rangi          at least since 2010 anyway, 2009 didnt have the day off bit
23:46 rangi          2006 had 2 days conf, 5 days hackfest
23:48 jcamins_away   I'm not sure yet if I'll come to the entire thing.
23:49 jcamins_away   Go to, rather.
23:50 drojf          i would
23:50 drojf          unfortunately i don't see that happening for me
23:50 dcook          I like the day off idea, rangi
23:50 dcook          Mind you, I'm probably going to take a week or two off afterwards and try to see family and friends while I'm in NA
23:50 rangi          we try to do something cultural/unique to the area
23:50 dcook          Ahh, group bonding time? :p
23:50 rangi          its the most important part of the conf
23:50 rangi          imho
23:51 rangi          the presentations and stuff are cool
23:51 rangi          but its the talking over beers or coffees
23:51 rangi          that is the bit that reinforces community
23:51 jcamins_away   ^^ that's the part I'm interested in.
23:51 drojf          and standing in the rain in scotland
23:51 rangi          hehe yes
23:51 rangi          we did a lot of that
23:51 drojf          it was still fun :)
23:51 rangi          usually between beers
23:52 bag            yeah that's the times that are fun
23:52 bag            when you really get to understand paul_p etc...
23:53 bag            or have fun with rangi's accent
23:53 gmcharlt       or imagining combining mine, rangi's, and paul_p's
23:54 rangi          heh
23:54 rangi          or go to baseball games
23:56 bag            bag?
23:56 wahanui        I LIKE BASEBALL
23:56 gmcharlt       wahanui: speak up, we can't quite make that out
23:56 wahanui        gmcharlt: excuse me?
23:56 drojf          rangi?
23:56 wahanui        I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS!
23:56 drojf          heh. love that one
23:56 dcook          lol
23:56 bag            October will be hard for baseball - since it will be world series time and most minor leagues are done at that time
23:57 bag            yeah rangi bought those almonds at the farmers market here in Santa Barbara
23:57 rangi          they were good!
23:57 * dcook        can't remember rangi's accent, but really wondered how long he was going to speak Maori for at his Access presentation
23:57 rangi          heh, gets them everytime
23:57 dcook          It was great!
23:58 dcook          I wish that I hadn't been so slammed at the time
23:58 bag            rangi they've upgraded now - so they make more than just the almonds - like they make chocolate covered almonds  etc.
23:58 rangi          http://stats.workbuffer.org/chrisc_presentations/access_2011/html/slide015.html
23:58 rangi          hehe
23:59 rangi          and my favourite slide, from 2 days before the world cup final
23:59 rangi          http://stats.workbuffer.org/chrisc_presentations/access_2011/html/slide017.html
23:59 bag            we all had a lot of fun in NOLA - asking rangi what he cooks on his deck (you know the back porch patio kind of thing)
23:59 bag            oh that world cup final shot is awesome