Time Nick Message 23:55 dcook And to have incrementalzebra.pl working, you need to set up a cronjob 23:53 dcook Hmm. I'll have to keep it in the back of my mind 23:43 dcook What's it caused by? 23:43 jcamins Annoying, but not disastrous. 23:43 dcook lol 23:42 wahanui http://i.imgur.com/hVVuP.jpg 23:42 dcook No? 23:42 jcamins That warning is nothing to worry about. 23:40 dcook I think I'm going to have to buy quite a few thank you beers in October :p 23:39 bag sorry checked out there for a bit - but eythian is great! 23:39 dcook Thanks to you too, bag! 23:38 bag :) 23:38 dcook My search is finally working now regardless, although I'd hate to ignore any error message... 23:38 dcook I'll investigate :) 23:38 eythian_ I have no idea what that error means 23:37 dcook In any case, thanks heaps eythian_ and jcamins! 23:37 dcook Or maybe they were all indexed. I see a Zebralist post from Fridolyn regarding unknown register type but those had a type code in the warning... 23:33 dcook At least some records seem to have been indexed though 23:33 dcook 10:26:53-12/02 zebraidx(9184) [warn] Unknown register type: 23:33 dcook Without a doubt 23:32 eythian_ it'll go back to being mystical soon enough 23:32 dcook It's very interesting going from front-end support to back-end support. Zebra was always made to seem very mystical, but it's all logic... 23:31 * dcook is running the re-index now 23:29 dcook Reasonable advice is reasonable 23:29 eythian_ that's what your problem is. You are best looking at your problem to start with. 23:28 eythian_ More importantly, who owns the lock file and the zebra database files. 23:28 dcook I'm the owner of the git, but not the dev directory with all the symbolic links 23:26 * dcook facepalm 23:26 dcook That...makes more sense, eythian_, lol 23:26 dcook Ah 23:26 dcook Just did, and yeah I'm the owner 23:26 eythian_ who owns the lock files that you are getting the errors on? 23:26 bgkriegel dcook: do an 'ls -l' 23:26 eythian_ why don't you check? 23:26 dcook Unless he chowned it afterward 23:26 dcook Well, I am the owner, so maybe he did use my user 23:25 dcook Hmm 23:24 eythian_ it's just the owner of the files 23:24 eythian_ no 23:24 dcook When you do the dev install, is your user picked up and written into a config somewhere? 23:23 dcook I suggested running a dev install, and my boss is the one who did it 23:23 eythian_ what did you do then? 23:23 dcook I didn't do the dev install though 23:23 eythian_ yeah, often just your own user. 23:23 jcamins So if the git clone is /home/dcook/kohaclone, it's probably dcook. 23:23 dcook Hmm 23:23 wahanui dev install is on, some cataloging already goin, so I guess I;m almost there 23:23 eythian_ oh, dev install 23:23 jcamins dcook: in a dev install, the koha user is the one that you installed Koha as. 23:22 eythian_ have a look through your users and see if you have one. It's often called koha. 23:22 dcook bag, the one mentioned in koha-zebra-ctl.sh? 23:22 dcook And the koha user is which one? 23:22 dcook Hmm 23:21 eythian_ you don't normally have a zebra user 23:21 eythian_ you typically run it as the koha user 23:21 dcook I'm not running as the Zebra user though 23:21 dcook I've never run as root, but perhaps someone else has? 23:20 eythian_ if you've run it as root, you've probably broken all your permissions. 23:20 dcook 10:11:20-12/02 zebraidx(4996) [fatal] Could not select database biblios errCode=109 23:20 dcook 10:11:20-12/02 zebraidx(4996) [warn] zebra_lock_create fail fname=/.../lock/zebradb/biblios/shadow..LCK [Permission denied] 23:20 dcook 10:11:20-12/02 zebraidx(4996) [warn] zebra_lock_create fail fname=.../lock/zebradb/biblios/norm..LCK [Permission denied] 23:20 dcook 10:11:20-12/02 zebraidx(4995) [fatal] Could not select database biblios errCode=109 23:20 dcook 10:11:20-12/02 zebraidx(4995) [warn] zebra_lock_create fail fname=.../lock/zebradb/biblios/shadow..LCK [Permission denied] 23:20 dcook 10:11:20-12/02 zebraidx(4995) [warn] zebra_lock_create fail fname=.../lock/zebradb/biblios/norm..LCK [Permission denied] 23:19 dcook Ok, now I'm thinking that it is a permission/user issue 23:19 dcook Hmm.. 23:19 dcook One of these days, I'm going to do a standard install and a dev install from scratch, and right up some wiki docs from the "rookie" perspective. 23:18 dcook In the past, I think I just saw errors when I tried something, and I chocked it up to inexperience, so I put it off for another time. 23:17 dcook :P 23:16 jcamins And, yeah, PERL5LIB and KOHA_CONF are very important. 23:16 jcamins No, I meant your login user. 23:16 * dcook thinks the issue might've been that I wasn't exporting my PERL5LIB and Koha_conf before... 23:15 dcook I'm trying a re-index now, and I think it might be working 23:15 dcook I've never had to use the Zebra u/n and p/w when using yaz though, so I'm thinking perhaps this isn't the issue. 23:09 dcook But "a user" and "your user" are different, as the user specified in that file is koha whereas I'm logged in as a different user 23:08 dcook Wait... 23:06 dcook I don't have root access anyway, so I'm always doing everything as a user 23:06 dcook Thanks for the clarification :) 23:06 dcook Ahh 23:06 jcamins That's what bag was getting at. :) 23:05 dcook Permissions definitely gave me quite a headache at first too. I'm sure jcamins could attest to that with my early patches 23:05 jcamins dcook: you should be using your user rather than sudo for all Zebra-related commands. 23:05 bag yeah permissions was what got me BIG time in the beginning 23:04 dcook Well, I'm still rather new to Linux and Zebra, so I'm probably just missing something 23:03 bag HA see what I mean 23:02 dcook Hmm, maybe not 23:02 dcook Ohhh...I think I might see what you're saying 22:58 bag which has been proven before :P 22:57 bag but it has been awhile since I've gone from step one of the install docs - so my knowledge could be a bit "old" 22:57 bag the GROUP and USER statement there 22:57 bag http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=misc/bin/koha-zebra-ctl.sh 22:55 dcook Sure. Thanks, bag :) 22:55 bag looking one sec 22:54 dcook Hmm. How do you mean? 22:52 bag I've seen that sometimes there are some group/user issues with the daemon before 22:50 dcook I thought that switching between dom and grs1 did require changes outside of the webui though. Mind you, I haven't looked at that since last year either 22:50 dcook For some reason, I haven't gotten Zebra to work on my dev install yet, and I haven't had the time to really focus on getting it up and running yet. But...when I do...it'll help with testing patches 22:50 bag ahhh than we are all good dcook - that's all the matters :) 22:49 dcook Sorry, bag. I meant in terms of modifying files manually 22:49 bag :) 22:49 * bag didn't understand the term "tweaks" I guess I have a different definition than jared (my bad) 22:48 jcamins You can use either without modifying any configuration files manually. 22:47 jcamins None. 22:44 bag dom or grs1? 22:44 bag tweaks in what sense? 22:42 dcook Good to know 22:42 dcook I love your brevity, jcamins ;) 22:42 jcamins No. 22:40 dcook Off the top of your head, does Zebra require any tweaks to work with a dev install? 22:40 dcook Actually, that reminds me... 22:39 rangi there's plenty ;) 22:38 dcook I guess I need to find some other bugs to test now though :p 22:37 rangi yep 22:37 dcook Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel has been a machine lately. It's great! 22:32 dcook As far as I know, she's not teaching at SLAIS anymore :/ 22:31 rangi yep 22:31 bag we are hosting her "sandbox" 22:31 dcook Alas, I did not end up taking that class, as I was here in Aus 22:31 bag ah shirley lew! 22:30 dcook Hehe. Sweet. 22:30 rangi cos she submitted a bug report for koha, in shirley lews class 22:30 dcook Always a surefire way to win someone over ;) 22:30 rangi yep, i gave her chocolate at access 2011 22:30 dcook I went to uni with TheRealArty 22:30 dcook Oh neat 22:29 tweetbot` [off] twitter: @ranginui: "yay my mozilla persona patch for #kohails has been signed off by a developer from argentina" 22:29 tweetbot` [off] twitter: @ranginui: "@TheRealArty you can login in with it, https://t.co/14Czoo9M so if your user has its email set in #kohails to one you use with persona" 22:28 bag maybe in the summer we get up to 24 22:28 bag it always sounds about the same :) 22:27 dcook Santa Barbara sounds pretty good about now ;) 22:26 huginn dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 20.0°C (9:00 AM EST on February 12, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady). 22:26 dcook @wunder sydney, australia 22:24 huginn bag: The current temperature in Near Mission - TC, Santa Barbara, California is 14.9°C (2:22 PM PST on February 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 22%. Dew Point: -7.0°C. Pressure: 30.13 in 1020 hPa (Falling). 22:24 bag @wunder 93102 22:24 huginn eythian_: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 19.0°C (11:00 AM NZDT on February 12, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Falling). 22:24 eythian_ @wunder nzwn 22:24 bag yup about 2:30 22:22 dcook It's afternoon there? 22:22 dcook The weather outside has cooled off a bit but the office is still a bit of a hot box. Reasonably good nonetheless though :) 22:20 bag hopefully good 22:20 bag morning dcook 22:16 dcook Morning, #koha 22:12 mib_cn8suk :( 22:12 mib_cn8suk Its driving me mad 22:12 mib_cn8suk ok 22:12 jcamins Not me. 22:12 rangi not me im afraid 22:09 mib_cn8suk anyone works with SSO, and proxy CAS? 22:09 mib_cn8suk hello to everybody 22:09 alohabot Hi mib_cn8suk, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :) 21:55 eythian_ Actually, I can't remember if we use the packaged version or not, I'd have to check. 21:54 eythian_ oh, that's unfortunate. 21:54 rangi so we might have to look into replacing that 21:54 rangi eythian_: puck was telling me tinymce2 isn't in wheezy (it was in squeeze but has been taken out) 21:16 bag YAY backups! 21:16 talljoy no problem. thank goodness for backups! 21:15 oleonard Thanks for your help with patron deletions talljoy 21:15 oleonard talljoy++ 21:10 cait hm not sure 21:10 oleonard Do people use the "order by" option when searching patrons? 21:06 wahanui i don't know, slef 21:06 slef wahanui: huh? 21:06 slef huh? 21:04 wahanui eythian_: i'm not following you... 21:04 eythian_ wahanui has fainting spells 21:03 oleonard Sorry wahanui, did that disagree with you? 21:03 cait ah thx! 21:03 oleonard Search for an empty space I think cait. " " 20:58 cait but that's easy to do 20:58 cait you are confusing me :) 20:58 slef "finding all patrons when you send an empty serach" 20:58 cait slef: huh? 20:58 slef cait: search for _ or __ IIRC, but that's a bug. 20:57 jcamins No idea. 20:57 cait my armenian is a bit rusty... 20:57 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9579 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED WORKSFORME, Incorrect display of UNICODE symbols in 'Refine Search Results' 20:57 cait someone an idea about bug 9579? 20:57 cait hm 20:54 cait we used to have that too 20:54 cait just noting. sigh. 20:54 cait it's stil not finding all patrons when you send an empty serach... 20:54 jcamins Right. 20:54 slef jcamins: FSVO "work". We'd lost functionality we used to have. 20:53 * jcamins vaguely remembers that the change was necessary to make the search work again. 20:53 slef (I can't see screencast) 20:53 cait only it's bit much to take in 20:53 oleonard I'm sure that would make someone mad 20:53 cait I like the functionality 20:53 cait yes 20:53 slef oh patrons search? 20:53 jcamins Wow, that's really wide! 20:53 oleonard cait: I'm thinking maybe show just the text input and the "search fields" option? 20:52 cait I think it was something slef did not too long ago 20:52 oleonard I thought it was another HTML5 bug at first. I guess I hadn't noticed the new option yet 20:52 cait maybe some of it could be part of the + part? 20:51 cait I thought that too today 20:51 cait yep 20:51 oleonard The size of this search form is too damn wide! http://screencast.com/t/HWpyLdoU 20:22 cait wizzyrea: git training sounds fun :) 20:20 jcamins Hehe. 20:20 * oleonard shushes everyone so that wizzyrea can get back to listening to the tumblers on the safe 20:18 * wizzyrea would talk more but can't at the moment :( 20:16 jcamins Nice! 20:16 wizzyrea git training :P 20:16 jcamins I hope you were doing something fun? :) 20:12 * wizzyrea hasn't been around 20:12 jcamins I did! 20:12 oleonard Like three days ago eh? 20:12 jcamins Oh, yes! 20:12 jcamins I did? 20:11 wizzyrea you sent me a later 20:11 wahanui jcamins: bitte 20:11 jcamins Thanks, wahanui. 20:11 wahanui hmmm... License is GPLv3+. 20:11 jcamins License? 20:11 wizzyrea also yes about the license - but not right this second 20:11 jcamins wizzyrea++ 20:11 jcamins Thanks! 20:11 wizzyrea sure 20:10 jcamins wizzyrea: any chance I could get you to revert commit c0e60a9079c8ffa970676172870eab75ccbcac5d from 3.6.x? 20:10 pastebot "gmcharlt" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "oleonard: out of curiosity, does reformatting it like this help at all?" (7 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/388 20:09 jcamins Hi wizzyrea! 20:09 jcamins Wow. 20:07 * cait sends aspirin and cookies 20:04 oleonard The cascade of ternary operators at line 984+ of opac-detail.pl makes my head hurt. 20:01 * wizzyrea_away waves 19:51 oleonard :) 19:49 cait oh good 19:48 cait hm I should look up languish just to make sure 19:48 cait because we love your patches :) 19:48 oleonard Actually I'm very lucky. I hardly ever have patches languish. 19:47 jcamins Just making sure all is clear. 19:47 jcamins Hehe. 19:47 oleonard So that's what I've been leaving out! 19:47 * oleonard notices step 8 in jcamins' patch's test plan, "Sign off on patch." 19:43 jcamins I guess maybe 3908 went into 3.0-stable and not 3.1-devel. 19:42 jcamins Yeah, I was a little confused. 19:42 oleonard Same fix too... 19:42 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7608 normal, P5 - low, ---, colin.campbell, Needs Signoff , Manual history is always 'enabled' 19:42 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3908 normal, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, oleonard, CLOSED FIXED, Edit subscription page shows manual history block by default 19:42 oleonard jcamins: I'm glad you turned up Bug 3908, because I thought I was crazy for thinking I'd fixed Bug 7608 before 19:37 * jcamins updates the bug to reflect the larger scope of the problem. 19:35 jcamins oleonard: you are quite right. 19:19 huginn jcamins: Intended primarily for use with antiquarian materials, rare books and other special collections. (Repeatable) [a,u,3,5,6,8] 19:18 jcamins @marc 563 19:18 huginn jcamins: A copy-specific field that contains information concerning the ownership and custodial history of the described materials from the time of their creation to the time of their accessioning, including the time at which individual items or group of items were first brought together in their current arrangement or collation. (Repeatable) [a,3,5,6,8] 19:18 jcamins @marc 561 19:18 jcamins That's the one. 19:18 huginn jcamins: Biographical information about an individual or historical information about an institution or an event used as the main entry of the bibliographic record for the described materials. When a distinction between levels of detail is required, a brief summary is given in subfield $a and a fuller annotation is given in subfield $b. (Repeatable) [a,b,u,6,8] 19:18 jcamins @marc 545 19:18 huginn jcamins: Information on the immediate source of acquisition of the described materials. The field is used primarily for original or historical items or other archival collections. (Repeatable) [a,b,c,d,e,f,h,n,o,3,5,6,8] 19:18 jcamins @marc 541 18:57 nengard oxygen 18:54 jcamins I have concluded it is not nearly as useful as one might hope. 18:54 oleonard nengard: What's the editor you use for the manual again? 18:53 * jcamins just learned about XForms. 18:52 oleonard xmllint gives other errors regarding the document structure...I'm surprised the original editor let them pass 18:06 * cait nods 18:06 oleonard maybe I should have lunch 18:05 cait hm. maybe I shoudl have dinner. 18:05 cait probably 18:05 cait else you can't do something like arabic 18:05 cait I think it should be unicode 18:04 oleonard I wonder if the unicode is widely acceptable... 18:04 oleonard xmllint doesn't like the numeric character reference for the euro symbol either, but it doesn't mind € ? 17:58 bgkriegel thanks 17:58 cait even bgkriegel++ then :) 17:58 bgkriegel It's holiday here :) 17:57 cait lots of sign-offs! 17:57 cait bgkriegel++ 17:57 bgkriegel that gives errors 17:57 bgkriegel I think is "xmllint --valid fr/manual.xml" 17:54 jcamins I don't know either, actually. 17:54 * oleonard doesn't know how to run the test himself 17:54 oleonard I wonder if there are others too 17:53 jcamins oleonard: something like that, yes. 17:53 oleonard Do I recall correctly that jenkins fails the manual build because of é and è in the French translation? 17:50 gaetan_B bye! 17:45 bgkriegel :) 17:43 oleonard bgkriegel++ # for signoffs! 17:35 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: update serial images with new closed status 17:35 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #287: STILL FAILING in 18 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/287/ 17:35 jenkins_koha Starting build #287 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago) 17:32 oleonard bag: :) 17:28 bag great contribution to the conversation there bag! 17:28 bag yeah mardi gras 17:26 oleonard slef: Sounds like a nice alternative to Google Apps for Business 17:21 slef oooh mardi gras tomorrow 17:21 slef oleonard: integrated with a mailserver and cloud file synchronisation. 17:20 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: update for branch limitations 17:20 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #286: STILL FAILING in 21 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/286/ 17:20 chris_n they've worked from about 4 different ip blocks over the past 5 days 17:20 jenkins_koha Starting build #286 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago) 17:20 chris_n slef: working on getting the logs together atm 17:19 * oleonard hadn't heard of sogo 17:19 oleonard slef: based on = customized? 17:19 alaquerre ciao! leaving for lunch. 17:19 jcamins :D 17:19 jcamins You're welcome. I look forward to seeing what you come up with! 17:19 alaquerre jcamins : okay,let me do my homework with my community and I'll get back to you guys for questions/answers before we jump in. THanks again!!! 17:18 slef (based on sogo.nu) 17:18 slef alaquerre: I prefer the calendar we sell ;-) 17:18 alaquerre slef:Do you prefer Microsoft Calendar ? ;-) 17:18 slef chris_n: that doesn't surprise me one bit, sadly. Do you have a CERT you can report it to? 17:18 jcamins alaquerre: yeah, that would make sense. And in order to do that first step, you'll have to figure out exactly where the calendar needs to show up. 17:17 slef ;) 17:17 slef it's a trojan for privacy invasion and advert sales? 17:16 alaquerre it "google like" and not "google" ;-) 17:15 slef if it's google, make sure it's optional 17:15 alaquerre And this first phase would only replace the current calendar feature we have. 17:15 slef yes, alaquerre woke the slef by mentioning the evil google 17:15 * slef returns to kebab some more kittens 17:14 alaquerre All right, thanks for the advices. If I catch it properly, we should in the first phase only put the "google calendar" system and make sure it's autorized by the community, then extend with reccuring hold, blocking hold and some other feature... 17:14 oleonard (if not followed) 17:11 oleonard There are so many steps in that list which could, individually, sink a potential feature 17:11 jcamins Something else worth mentioning would be "ask for advice early and often." 17:10 jcamins Thanks. 17:10 oleonard jcamins++ # great summary 17:09 jcamins oleonard: it was not. 17:09 oleonard Was that originally an email to the list jcamins? 17:08 jcamins You may need to paste that into a word processor. I had not realized it would end up with absurdly long lines like that. 17:08 alaquerre jcamins: Thanks 17:08 pastebot "jcamins" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "alaquerre: my screed on good development practices" (12 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/387 17:07 alaquerre I would luv to read on it. 17:07 alaquerre Because I wont start this project if I know it's not accepted, and the internationale community will never be able to tell me it will be accepted... until it is :-) 17:06 jcamins I will find it and share it. 17:06 jcamins As it happens, I have written a veritable essay on how to make sure your developments go in. 17:05 alaquerre Next question : I know we are into the opensource software, but how can I "make sure" it will be accepted. (you read in my mind) 17:05 jcamins :) 17:05 jcamins And I would remind you that with developments that big if you don't contribute code to the community in small chunks you end up with an expensive dead end. 17:04 alaquerre I know :-) but right now, my user are dealing with a second software... ($$$) 17:04 jcamins I think it would be a huge undertaking, though. 17:03 alaquerre We also want to have a "visual" display of the current DVD. 17:03 jcamins _Really_ cool. 17:03 jcamins That would be really cool! 17:03 jcamins Ooh. 17:03 alaquerre We want to give the ability to let say : Hold a specific DVD for friday PM for 4 months. 17:02 alaquerre user = Staff at first... 17:02 alaquerre What we think : Put a "google like" calendar when user click on "hold" on an item. We need to handle : recuring hold and blocking hold. 17:01 jcamins I'm having trouble envisioning the workflow with a working calendar. 17:01 alaquerre ok 17:00 alaquerre ok sorry... 17:00 jcamins However, the calendar _definitely_ needs to be overhauled. 17:00 alaquerre Where ? :-) 17:00 jcamins I think I'd have to see a demo. 17:00 jcamins Ummm... 17:00 alaquerre I'll ask you another question :-). We are currently looking to put in place a "Google calendar" like system in Koha. Mainly do deal with Hold. What do you think of the idea ? What we want to be able to easily put "hard hold" on item ( materials like camera, computer and stuff like that.) 16:59 jcamins lol 16:58 * oleonard remembers jcamins telling us how he woke up the next morning wearing nothing but a pair of stretched out purple pants 16:58 * jcamins suspects that kf blocked out my rage over the debacle from her memory. 16:57 jcamins Nothing. :) 16:57 alaquerre jcamins : okay thanks, I was not sure what I was doing wrong... 16:56 jcamins The HTML support broke all notices so I reverted it. 16:56 jcamins HTML notices are not working. 16:50 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: add HTML5 prefs 16:50 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #285: STILL FAILING in 20 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/285/ 16:50 jcamins_away magnuse: why aren't you going to upgrade to 3.12? 16:50 jenkins_koha Starting build #285 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago) 16:48 kf ! 16:48 * kf leaves :) bye all 16:46 kf I think serials/acq might not work I think 16:45 kf try it with checkout/checkin/due/predue or something like that 16:45 kf it probably won't work 16:45 * drojf tries to continue studying 16:45 kf don't do it with acqclaim 16:45 kf alaquerre: aah 16:43 alaquerre Just to let you know :-) 16:43 alaquerre kf: Just an FYI : I was not able to make it work. I tested it on "ACQCLAIM" notice and still getting plain text. In the wiki you provided me, it mention : Only tested out on checkout and checkin. Look like the process of "send letter" is not completly on this new way to work. 16:43 chris_n heya kf 16:42 kf g 16:42 kf hi chris_n and ba 16:39 chris_n just when you thought you were safe: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/feb/10/raytheon-software-tracks-online-video 16:39 wahanui rumour has it morning is a state of mind. or whenever the cat wants breakfast 16:39 bag morning 16:35 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: update messaging preferences info 16:35 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs_3.10.x build #19: STILL FAILING in 19 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.10.x/19/ 16:35 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: update messaging preferences info 16:35 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #284: STILL FAILING in 18 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/284/ 16:35 jenkins_koha Starting build #284 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago) 16:35 jenkins_koha Starting build #19 for job Koha_Docs_3.10.x (previous build: STILL FAILING) 16:34 kf hope it works 16:34 kf you are welcome 16:34 alaquerre That's what I was looking for. :-) Thanks for your help! 16:33 kf there are some examples that might be useful I think 16:33 kf http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Customising_Notices_and_Slips 16:32 kf give me a min 16:32 alaquerre Do you know where that wiki is ? Can't find anything in the doc on that subject. 16:31 kf I haven't tried myself yet, but I kinda filed away that ther was information ont he wiki if I wanted to :) 16:31 kf let me look for it 16:31 kf alaquerre: I think there is a wiki article that might be able to help you 16:29 alaquerre It's always plain text whatever I try. 16:28 alaquerre HI all, - Question : How can we send Html email using notification ? I do see the "Html Message" checkbox, but I'm not able to make it work ? 16:27 * druthb suggests you ask any of her teammates, or kf, or any one of a dozen other regulars here, if she's a bad person, and then compare that to Benedict's opinion of me, and weigh appropriately. 16:27 drojf but only because they are bad! :/ 16:26 drojf true 16:25 druthb For someone who heads a religion that preaches universal love to all mankind, the incumbent sure seemed to dislike a lot of people. 16:24 druthb That would be a problem, yes. 16:23 drojf also, faith in a god 16:23 drojf druthb: yeah i'm beginning to wonder where i will find enough LGBT hate to qualify for the job 16:21 druthb :P 16:20 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: small format fix 16:20 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: update patron permissions 16:20 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs_3.10.x build #18: STILL FAILING in 20 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.10.x/18/ 16:20 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: small format fix 16:20 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: update patron permissions 16:20 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #283: STILL FAILING in 20 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/283/ 16:20 jenkins_koha Starting build #283 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago) 16:20 jenkins_koha Starting build #18 for job Koha_Docs_3.10.x (previous build: STILL FAILING) 16:20 druthb psst...hey, drojf...when you're Pope, will you talk to people about funding libraries better? Oh, and that whole LGBT equality thing? Yeah, Benedict XVI got it All Wrong, and people like me get killed by their (Catholic) neighbors a lot. 16:19 kf druthb: more worried about everyone else 16:19 druthb he has my vote, fer sure. 16:18 druthb no need to hide, kf; looks like drojf is all for it! 16:14 reiveune bye 16:05 drojf oh, and i would inherit the @pontifex twitter account \o/ 16:02 * kf hides 16:02 kf drojf for pope! 16:02 * druthb thinks drojf would make a dandy pope. Plus, two German popes in a row--that's *never* happened. We hadda wait a looooong time for this one, and he turned out to be...less awesome than his predecessor. 16:00 wahanui druthb: I forgot most of it 16:00 druthb wahanui: forget most of it 16:00 wahanui most of it is alive again afaict 16:00 kf most of it 16:00 kf they just copy over 16:00 kf druthb: en-nz is cheating 16:00 kf drojf: lol 15:59 kf bernardo++ :) 15:58 drojf in latin 15:57 drojf and then we will do vatikoha 15:56 * drojf applies for the job of a pope 15:56 drojf but the words won't go away, you know? ;) 15:56 drojf oh, 3.12.0. that probably never 15:55 drojf like, never? 15:53 * magnuse will hardly be upgrading to 3.12.0 anyway... 15:51 * magnuse sighs 15:50 drojf String freeze - May 1 Starting on May 1, no patch (other than security patches) changing translatable strings will be accepted for Koha 3.12.0. 15:49 drojf ah, i pout that on the wiki i think 15:49 drojf when is translation time? 15:48 drojf heh, nz english requires a lot of attention 15:47 druthb http://translate.koha-community.org/en_NZ/312/ #giggles 15:47 drojf hm 15:47 huginn drojf: mveron was last seen in #koha 4 weeks, 0 days, 8 hours, 13 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <mveron> BRB 15:47 drojf @seen mveron 15:47 * druthb cracks the whip on magnuse, too 15:47 druthb Norwegian is a hot mess too. 15:46 drojf unfortunately i have to study instead of doing unpaid translation :P 15:46 druthb I dunno. 23Kwords. Might need both of ya. 15:46 kf for makign drojf do it :P 15:46 druthb For whip-crackin? 15:46 kf druthb++ :P 15:46 kf lol 15:45 kf you know the problem, we can't easily ignore the help files... 15:45 * druthb cracks the whip. 15:45 drojf noooooooo 15:45 * druthb chains drojf to the desk, and locks the browser into Pootle. 15:45 drojf if you want to read help files, learn english :P 15:44 kf druthb: most of it is always staff... it will get a lot worse when nicole submits her help files 15:44 kf but that's a good thing in general.. I mean fixing things 15:44 druthb Most of it on staff, it looks like. 15:44 kf and rewritten templates 15:44 kf new features I guess 15:44 drojf how did that happen? 15:43 drojf ouch 15:43 kf omg. 15:43 * kf coughs loudly 23426 words need attention 15:41 druthb I wanna get the ccsr theme on the 3.10 branch, tooooooo. 15:41 magnuse druthb++ 15:40 kf wahoo :) 15:37 druthb translators++ 15:35 druthb Wahoo! The Pootle server now has a v3.12 project, and it includes the ccsr theme! :D 15:15 kf I think jcamins_away likes it better if a bug is not reopened after pushing the initial feature 15:14 oleonard I would like to handle further changes in follow-ups. If you think a separate bug is best I'm okay with that. 15:14 kf it's rather new so I think you didn't cover it in your patch because it was not there back then 15:14 kf do you want me to open a separate bug for the invoices page? 15:13 kf oleonard: it's ok for me :) 15:05 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: update permission descriptions 15:05 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs_3.10.x build #17: STILL FAILING in 22 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.10.x/17/ 15:05 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: update permission descriptions 15:05 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #282: STILL FAILING in 22 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/282/ 15:05 jenkins_koha Starting build #17 for job Koha_Docs_3.10.x (previous build: STILL FAILING) 15:05 jenkins_koha Starting build #282 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago) 14:58 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8913 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Signed Off , Improve acquisitions navigation 14:58 oleonard kf: I resubmitted my patch for Bug 8913 and left it as 'signed off' because the change was minor. If you disagree please feel free to set it to 'needs signoff' 14:50 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: add info on activate filters for holdings 14:50 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #281: STILL FAILING in 20 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/281/ 14:50 jenkins_koha Starting build #281 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago) 14:29 kf thx for always working on the stray templates :) 14:29 oleonard My fix doesn't address your bug, but I agree that it's a good idea 14:29 kf because I always panic and wonder if I really clicked the right entry 14:29 kf I was only wondering if we coudl add the framework to the confirmation message 14:28 kf was just checking your code to see if it might fix it :) 14:28 oleonard Oh, I'm sorry I didn't see that before. I did revise that message in my fix for 9545 to make it more readable. 14:27 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8558 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Better confirmation message for importing frameworks 14:27 kf bug 8558 14:27 kf 8558 14:27 kf ah 14:26 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9545 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Fix Import Marc Bibliographic Framework Text Label 14:26 kf oleonard: seeing your fix for bug 9545 - I think I reported a bug in that area you might address 14:21 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: add idreambooks images 14:21 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #280: STILL FAILING in 1 min 15 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/280/ 14:21 jenkins_koha Starting build #280 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago) 13:34 kf hm yes, because you care about it 13:34 oleonard Should I get karma for patching a bug I caused? :) 13:33 kf oleonard++ #patching the chromium bug :) 13:33 kf well... at least about clouds with servers somewhere 13:32 kf here privacy is a big concern about cloud computing 13:32 wahanui i think interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad 13:32 kf interesting 13:32 kf ah 13:32 paul_p kf it's ICAL2013 (International Conference for Academic Libraries). The main topic is "cloud computing, how can it help indian libraries" 13:31 paul_p kf other than this, it can be compared to Mumbaï (lot of ppl, lot of pollution, lot of traffic, ...) 13:30 kf hope you have a good time! what is this conf about? 13:29 kf not too warm 13:29 kf sounds nice :) 13:29 paul_p kf surprisingly cold !!! weather is absolutely perfect. 15°C in the morning, 20-25° maximum. sunny, a tiny wind, really absolutely perfect ! 13:28 kf an and zeno is coming to the hackfest 13:28 kf how is India? :) 13:28 kf hi paul_p :) 13:28 paul_p namaste magnuse (internet connexion quite randomly working here...) 13:24 kf oleonard: and I always test those first again that I failed before... so it stays on top of my list 13:24 magnuse namaste paul_p 13:24 magnuse oleonard++ kf++ 13:21 kf no problem :) 13:20 oleonard Sorry to keep making you test it over again :) 13:20 kf oleonard: sorry for failing the acq navigation :( 13:20 kf hi oleonard 13:11 oleonard Hi #koha 11:53 kf Herwig: makes sense - glad you found it 11:31 Herwig even linux needs diskspace 11:30 Herwig kf: it's solved it was the diskspace but thx for the information 10:23 Herwig admin will make it bigger this afthernoon (its a virtual machine) 10:22 Herwig we maybe found the problem ... disk space on the machine is 0 % left 09:37 Herwig i do a database dump daily i try restore the friday one on a test machine and see what that brings 09:36 kf yeah. hmpf. 09:36 Herwig hmz 09:36 Herwig i asked but they said no 09:36 kf server side 09:36 kf I mean it can't restore to a previous state, it woudl have to be something an admin did 09:35 kf not the systemno 09:35 Herwig i'm looking into it 09:35 Herwig my collegue is reporting something diffrent missing 09:34 Herwig is it possible that the system restores to a previous state ? 09:33 kf hm I am running out of ideas Herwig 09:32 Herwig same with this one 09:32 Herwig the previous account was super librarian 09:31 Herwig no dont see annything 09:30 kf if your user don't has borrowers permission that could be another reaso 09:29 Herwig wait i try login as admin 09:29 Herwig its like there still in the database but i dont see them 09:29 kf or search for patrons at a library 09:28 kf so you have to give some search term 09:28 kf I know that the search all functionaltiy does not work in 3.8 09:28 kf I am not sure really 09:28 kf hm 09:28 Herwig it is 09:28 Herwig dont prevent 09:26 Herwig i can search myself but i'm not under the corresponding letter wait i do what you say 09:25 kf can you go to the system preferences and check your setting for independentbranches? 09:25 kf the branch you are logged in at 09:25 kf it will show up in the upper corner 09:25 kf yes 09:24 Herwig 3.08.09.000 09:23 Herwig with branch you are reffering to the library ? 09:23 kf whatis your koha version? 09:23 kf my guess is, that you are logged in at another branch 09:22 kf it's totally unrelated ;) 09:22 Herwig oeps 09:22 kf patron search does not use zebra. 09:22 kf as I said 09:22 kf nope 09:22 Herwig would reindexing help ? 09:22 Herwig i have 2 branches but did not do the other yet 09:22 kf did you activate the independentbranches system preference? 09:21 kf are they registered at other branches? 09:21 Herwig no i only get me 09:21 kf patron search doesn't use zebra. 09:21 kf did you update koha since then? 09:21 kf Herwig: you can't search them by name? 09:20 wahanui i think zebra is a fielded free text indexing and retrieval engine with a Z39.50 front-end. You can use any compatible, commercial, or freeware Z39.50 client to access data stored in Zebra. or the search engine koha uses 09:20 Herwig zebra ? 09:20 Herwig now they are invissible :OP 09:20 Herwig i put in a lot off patrons last week 09:19 Herwig only the patron list is reste to a previous state 09:19 Herwig and i tested 2 they can still login 09:19 Herwig or saterday 09:18 Herwig friday they where still there 09:18 Herwig i cant see them in the patron list 09:17 kf what do you mean by your users disappeared? 09:17 kf Herwig: we need a bit more inforamtion to help you 09:16 Herwig annyone had this ? 09:16 Herwig Morning & help my users dissapeared in koha 08:43 tweetbot` [off] twitter: @BibLibre: "L'article le plus consulté sur le blog la semaine dernière : La présentation de Koha 3.10 - http://t.co/uznaoC4F #kohails" 08:29 kf but as long as we keep moving it will be fine :) 08:29 kf i guess it never is... 08:29 marcelr it is not so much as i would like.. 08:28 kf thx for your qa work :) 08:28 marcelr yes 08:28 kf we will see. 08:28 kf but probably not as hard to test as some of the circ stuff 08:28 kf yeah 08:27 marcelr seems a big one 08:27 kf for better accessibility 08:27 kf i would love to see bootstrap replacing yui for example 08:27 marcelr yeah, just the number is misleading.. 08:26 kf and lots of good things too 08:26 kf but there is lots 08:26 kf I only had about half an hour this morning, so didn't tackle the bigger patches 08:25 kf yeah :( 08:24 marcelr queue is quite large 08:23 marcelr ok 08:23 kf and either I made them... or not :) 08:23 kf hope it will be better next week, some deadlines form my distance study will be over then 08:23 marcelr :) 08:23 marcelr i know that 08:23 kf marcelr: I haven't had much time lately - very sorry for that 08:23 kf marcelr: you are welcome 08:23 marcelr hi kf: thx for qa 08:14 alex_a hi marcelr 08:14 alex_a hi Manderson 08:06 marcelr hi magnuse asaurat alex_a 08:04 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Realtor, CABRIES, France is 6.8°C (9:01 AM CET on February 11, 2013). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 35%. Dew Point: -8.0°C. Windchill: 7.0°C. Pressure: 29.50 in 999 hPa (Steady). 08:04 magnuse @wunder marseille 08:02 wahanui hello, alex_a 08:02 alex_a bonjour 08:02 ambars thank you, koha! 08:02 ambars :) 08:02 ambars i got my koha setup working and it's looking great! 08:00 ambars hi 08:00 gaetan_B hello 07:57 wahanui salut, asaurat 07:57 asaurat hi 07:54 magnuse hiya marcelr 07:53 magnuse cait++ for qa'ing 07:52 marcelr hi koha 07:47 magnuse bonjour reiveune 07:47 cait bbl 07:47 wahanui hola, reiveune 07:47 reiveune hello 07:43 * magnuse wonders if the change from XML::SAX to XML::LibXML in MARC::File::XML affects the koha installation process 07:42 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Roros Lufthavn, Norway is -9.0°C (8:20 AM CET on February 11, 2013). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 86%. Dew Point: -11.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Rising). 07:42 magnuse @wunder rrs 07:42 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Kautokeino, Norway is -24.0°C (7:00 AM CET on February 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: -27.0°C. Pressure: 30.37 in 1028 hPa (Rising). 07:42 magnuse @wunder kautokeino 07:42 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Karasjok, Norway is -22.2°C (8:39 AM CET on February 11, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: -25.0°C. Windchill: -22.0°C. Pressure: 30.30 in 1026 hPa (Steady). 07:42 magnuse @wunder karasjok 07:42 magnuse windchill-- 07:41 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -4.0°C (8:20 AM CET on February 11, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 69%. Dew Point: -9.0°C. Windchill: -11.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Steady). 07:41 magnuse @wunder boo 07:21 huginn cait: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is -5.0°C (8:00 AM CET on February 11, 2013). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: -6.0°C. Pressure: 29.61 in 1003 hPa (Falling). 07:21 cait @wunder Konstanz 07:21 cait :) 07:18 magnuse in norway we say that a good thing can not be said too often ;-) 07:18 cait oh repeating myself... 07:18 cait morning :) 07:14 magnuse hiya cait 06:55 cait lol 06:54 cait morning magnuse :) 06:49 magnuse heh http://xkcd.com/1172/ 06:07 dcook En tout cas, bonne chance demain, paul_p. Bonne journée :) 06:06 dcook Hopefully, I'll find some time soon to actually start signing off more patches than just adding to the pile 06:05 dcook I actually just took a look at the number of patches I've had pushed since my first last March. I think it's around 24. Not too bad considering I was out of commission for 4.5 months and incredibly busy. 06:05 dcook I would like to hear more about how you got involved in the project actually, but I have to run along to prepare for a dinner party 06:04 dcook I'm sure ICAL will be very interesting, especially since it seems that Koha is increasingly popular in India 06:04 dcook Well, I'm glad to hear that the weather has been nice 06:04 dcook Hehe 06:03 * paul_p still impressed to see what happened in the last 10 years, since the 1st mail I sent to koha mailing list saying "i'll work on Koha" (because my employer just goes bankrupcy & i've a religious library friend of mine that is looking for a free ILS) 05:59 paul_p dcook ICAL = International Conference for Academic Libraries. The main topic being "cloud computing" (and of course Koha as ILS on the cloud). 250-300 registrations 05:59 paul_p dcook = it starts tomorrow, so for the conference, I don't know how it is. For Delhi & India, my main surprise is that the weather is very very nice. Something like 15° in the morning, and 20-25° during the day. So different compared to Mumbai in oct (KohaCon11) 05:57 dcook How is it? 05:57 dcook Hmm, the link didn't work for me 05:56 dcook I was wondering why your ip was different :p 05:55 paul_p dcook morning almost finished where I am now (Delhi, india). I'm here for ICAL2013 (http://www.ipu.ac.in/ical2013/index.htm) 05:54 dcook morning, paul_p 05:54 paul_p hello #koha 05:17 govind koha installation 04:18 Brooke you were so sweet when I was there :) 04:17 Brooke it's all good 04:17 Brooke thought we did 04:12 mtj (not sure if we've chatted since then?) 04:12 mtj sorry i missed seeing-you-off at the airport in wgtn, i got crazy sick the day before… :/ 04:10 Brooke roger that 04:09 mtj whole lotta shakin' 04:09 Brooke what's up? 04:09 mtj hey Brooke 04:05 Brooke kia ora 04:02 wahanui i guess schema is tracked in git. or found at http://schema.koha-community.org 04:02 mtj schema? 03:13 mtj andy's cil thing looks well clever 02:56 wahanui okay, eythian_. 02:56 eythian_ wahanui: good night is also <reply>I'll be waiting for you to come back, $who. 02:54 drojf i know :/ 02:54 wahanui I watch you sleep. 02:54 drojf good night 02:53 eythian_ yeah 02:52 rangi https://github.com/chilts/cil 02:52 rangi thats like cil that andy did 02:48 eythian_ http://docs.bugseverywhere.org/master/ 02:34 dcook I've double-checked the back-up though, and it does look like the IE hack is the one creating the problem, which it probably was meant to solve? 02:33 dcook I think someone is using IE 6 and getting problems, but it looks to me that they must've always had problems with any version of Koha 02:33 dcook Of course 02:33 dcook I'm getting the issues when I use the Quirks mode document mode 02:32 dcook I'm using 9 with the F12 developer tools 02:32 dcook Internet Explorer, of course 02:32 mtj dcook, curious what browser are you testing on? 02:25 dcook Hmm. Well, I'm going to join you on that one. Seems like that IE hack has been there for years...and somehow isn't the cause of the problem, even though turning it off in my problem situation fixes the problem... 02:21 dcook Hehe. Understood ;) 02:19 drojf err. whatever i have been doing i could fix by *throwing out all css about that element*. and it only took me 30+min to figure it out. just to reinforce i should not answer any questions regarding css ;) 02:15 dcook I'm a bit surprised to find no comments around this one though 02:15 dcook Mmm, good point 02:15 drojf dcook: don't forget that you need a special hack for probably every version of IE 02:10 dcook No wonder it doesn't affect modern browsers 02:10 dcook In this case, it seems to be a silly one as it creates a problem rather than fixing one... 02:10 * dcook just remembered that putting a * before the elements in CSS is a IE specific hack 02:09 dcook Mmm 02:08 drojf [off] benefit of being up in the middle of the night: new simpsons episode right when it is fresh 02:05 rangi he usually does 02:05 * dcook assumes Owen will have an answer 02:05 dcook Although it doesn't seem to be a problem in any browser except the old ones 02:05 dcook But then applying height and overflow attributes to ever div seems odd as well 02:05 dcook I've used the * selector before, but always after the elements, not before. As far as I know, using it in this context is redundant 02:04 dcook What are you getting up to with CSS? 02:04 rangi yeah me too 02:04 dcook Hehe. Fair enough. 02:04 rangi heh 02:04 drojf given that i completely fail to understand css every time i try to use it (like, now), i would not dare to answer that 02:02 dcook Hmm, anyone have any idea what the "* HTML DIV" type styles are for in staff-global.css? 01:58 drojf i think so, yes 01:54 dcook Well, I suppose that's capitalism in general even 01:54 drojf that is what privatisation / »public-private partnership« is all about. to make you believe it is possible to do it cheaper. 01:53 dcook My reasoning might be full of holes atm. Still no air conditioning. Brain might be melting. 01:53 dcook As you say, it can never be cheaper than the actual costs 01:52 dcook I'd rather stronger reviews in public service than privatisation though 01:51 dcook Admittedly, as we have mentioned though, there is a lot of waste in public service when the motto of "business as usual" is followed. 01:51 dcook Fair enough, drojf 01:51 dcook iceland++ 01:51 dcook ie-- 01:50 drojf well, it's probably me, not css 01:50 drojf css-- 01:49 drojf iceland++ 01:49 rangi only about 1/3 of money in circulation actually exists 01:49 drojf dcook: it can never be cheaper than the actual costs. so either your public service used to put a lot of extra stuff on the bill that did not have to do with anything and taking that out makes it look cheaper, or you are being betrayed. or, they screw with the environment and/or people, and for instance throw out waste into the ocean, which might reduce costs. but that is something nobody would want ( i hope) 01:49 rangi the debt is all not real anyway 01:48 rangi one of the few growing economies in the world 01:48 dcook What happened after that? 01:48 rangi http://newschooljournal.com/2012/04/icelands-revolutionary-crisis-response/ 01:48 dcook Whoa! 01:47 rangi and jailed the bankers instead 01:47 rangi voted to not bail out the banks 01:47 rangi they had a referendum 01:47 dcook Oh? 01:46 rangi :) 01:46 rangi cept in iceland 01:46 rangi its a trend 01:46 rangi privatise profit, socialise losses 01:46 dcook I'm originally from a conservative region where the privatization of public goods has been a hot topic for years (despite our province also being the birthplace of medicare and the first province to be entirely electrified, as well as filled to the brim with co-ops that we all used for our banks, our grocery stores, our gas stations, etc) 01:46 rangi and those are reasons thought up to try to give some legitimacy to what is a fairly thinly disguised money grab 01:45 rangi yep 01:45 dcook I think the argument for proprietary software might include security/reliability (which is bogus as we've already pointed out), and as for privatisation of public goods, I think the idea is that competition allows for cheaper prices and more efficiency (which is also quite bogus) 01:45 rangi but they don't care about that 01:45 rangi there isn't 01:44 drojf could there ever be 01:43 drojf the longer i think about it… the preference of making people use proprietary software instead of free software and the privatisation of public goods (think water, electricy, public transportation…) seems to be propagated by the same (kind of) people. and no matter how hard i try, i cannot find a valid reason for it, besides bribes and corruption. what positive outcome for the general public to there ever be? 01:35 drojf you are :D 01:34 wahanui it has been said that heh i am good 01:34 rangi heh wahanui 01:34 wahanui I know. That's why I said it. 01:34 dcook Very true 01:34 rangi :) 01:34 rangi dcook: but in libraryland usually after the trend is no longer relevant 01:34 dcook Yet, the trend is to follow the trends :p 01:34 drojf so why care? :/ 01:34 drojf people don't remember what cool stuff you did 5 or 10 years ago 01:34 dcook Mmm, very true 01:33 rangi yup 01:33 drojf true, unfortunately. for most people in charge of something. now and immediate future is what is important to get you re-/elected for $whatever 01:32 dcook hehe 01:32 rangi </gross generalisation> 01:32 rangi people look at now, not tomorrow 01:31 drojf [off] same as liblime btw 01:31 drojf i mean… it's really easy at least for future employees. make it a rule to only use and teach free(dom) software in schools/ universities. bam, nobody cries if s/he cannot use MS word. but of course MS goes into schools and universities and throws their stuff out for free and for some reasons that i don't understand, people are buying into that 01:28 rangi yep 01:28 dcook Always done by the producers of the product being marketed, of course 01:27 dcook Reminds me of a few non-IT studies that I've read in recent years. 01:27 dcook Ugh 01:27 rangi yeah 01:26 drojf there seems to be a strong interest in MS preventing that. we had the city of munich switch to linux for public services and lately there has been a "study" that came to the result that everything would be cheaper if they [i don't remeber: either »would not have switched to linux« or even »would switch back to MS now«]. a study initiated by MS and they also left out the license costs for MS products. that is the point where i stopped reading. there 01:25 mtj yep, stuck on ie/activex/winxp 01:25 rangi lots of intranets 01:24 mtj .. ive heard the same stories from govt.nz IT staff too 01:22 dcook I certainly would not disagree 01:21 rangi thats why open standards/languages are so much better 01:21 mtj ^^ alot of old govt/corperate webapps only run on IE/activex, and its too expensive to fix them 01:21 drojf heh 01:21 rangi only in old IE 01:21 rangi nope 01:21 drojf does activex still exist? :) 01:21 rangi and old IE 01:21 rangi they they locked to IE 01:20 rangi a lot of south korea is run on activex 01:20 dcook Mmm, I've also heard this 01:20 rangi there is that too 01:20 drojf i have heard of organisations that had someone develop $stuff for them, and that only works with IE 6. so they will use it forever. because they paid for $stuff 10+ years ago 01:20 rangi a lot of them think their time is more important, and so they do what is easiest for them 01:20 rangi they are there to serve the users 01:19 rangi IT depts have forgotten what they are for 01:19 dcook Mmm 01:19 rangi usually it boils down the reasons drojf mentioned 01:19 dcook But I just don't understand why someone or something would force it upon them 01:19 dcook People forced to use it 01:19 dcook That's what I've found as well 01:19 dcook ;) 01:18 drojf ./rant ;) 01:18 rangi just people forced to use it 01:18 rangi i dont find anyone who likes IE 01:18 drojf [off] dcook: from my experience, the construct of an "IT department", at least in public service, sometimes accomodates old men too lazy to learn something new. pre-internet, very pre-»digital native« people that at some point choose to never learn anything new again. just do business as usual forever. people that »grew up« in the stuff they are doing when it was cool & important to have a microsoft certificate for something. people that at some poi 01:18 rangi hmm not really 01:18 dcook Besides corporate IT 01:18 dcook They must have their opponents as well though 01:18 rangi so cataloguing is faster 01:17 rangi as an added bonus 01:17 rangi both of them render js a lot faster than IE 01:17 rangi firefox and chrome 01:16 dcook While I think everyone hates IE, what are some preferred browsers out there? 01:13 rangi heh 01:12 drojf koha should hand out an exploit that automatically does format c: and installs linux to older IE versions :P just kidding. maybe 01:12 rangi heck even microsoft tell people not to 01:12 dcook Why are IT departments the ones who are keeping organizations on old versions of IE then? 01:11 dcook Hmm, seems like it 01:09 rangi using older version of IE on the internet is incredibly dangerous 01:09 dcook :p 01:09 rangi i have no issues with that :) 01:09 dcook Hmm, apparently Koha 3.8 and older versions of IE really do not get along... 00:46 rangi http://www.grabone.co.nz/wellington/nz-flight-training-9 <-- looks like fun! 00:46 rangi yeah he is 00:46 drojf s/it/he 00:45 drojf i shouldn't start watching git videos at half past one in the morning. but it is a nice speaker 00:38 rangi *nod* 00:38 drojf cool, thanks. love the title 00:37 ibeardslee it's a pity the git one was miss named .. I would have like to have been able to plan on making it. 00:37 rangi http://mirror.linux.org.au/linux.conf.au/2013/ogv/Git_For_Ages_4_And_Up.ogv 00:36 rangi drojf: a much shorter version of his git talk is available as a video online 00:35 drojf cool, i'll come by ;) 00:35 eythian_ drojf: you'd know enough for this one 00:35 drojf i'd probably have to learn a lot more before i could thoroughly enjoy such sessions 00:34 rangi so things got pushed 00:34 rangi the git one ended up being a full day 00:34 eythian_ yeah, that plan was created at short notice, so I'm not sure it can be mangled :) 00:34 ibeardslee that is true as well 00:33 rangi im just stoked they got him here at all 00:33 rangi well they had like 2 days to convince him to change his tickets and come to wellington, so im not sure you can do too much planning in that time 00:32 * ibeardslee was going to style, until the 'plan' was mangled at short notice. 00:32 eythian_ jcamins_away: there's an issue with the k-c.org repo that needs to be fixed first though. Email has been sent. 00:32 * dcook = jealous 00:31 rangi im going to those 2 00:31 rangi tomorrow is modern perl and style 00:31 drojf i wish cool people would come to me to teach me stuff 00:31 drojf cool 00:31 rangi which is what cjh, wizzyrea_away and eythian_ are at today 00:31 rangi he also knows a crapton about git 00:30 rangi like Test::Simple 00:30 rangi we use a ton of his stuff 00:29 drojf DNA-0.03 Encodes your Perl program into an Nucleic Acid sequence <-- sounds like something everybody needs :) 00:29 drojf hi rangi. that guy made a lot of perl stuff 00:26 rangi with http://schwern.net/ 00:26 drojf hibye jcamins_away ;) 00:26 rangi hes in training all day 00:25 * jcamins_away leaves, after giving eythian a significant look about the packaging patches. 00:25 jcamins_away And if the system administrator has to look up the password with sudo, that's a good thing. 00:25 jcamins_away The database user should basically be used only by the system administrator. 00:24 jcamins_away spiker: I'm not here, and I'm leaving again, but don't change the username/password. Your librarians should never use the database user. You have to login with that user and create real users for them. 00:17 drojf hi dcook 00:17 dcook morning, drojf 00:16 drojf good late evening or early morning #koha ;) 00:07 jcamins *Dinner 00:07 jcamins DInner time!