Time  Nick            Message
00:07 jcamins         DInner time!
00:07 jcamins         *Dinner
00:16 drojf           good late evening or early morning #koha ;)
00:17 dcook           morning, drojf
00:17 drojf           hi dcook
00:24 jcamins_away    spiker: I'm not here, and I'm leaving again, but don't change the username/password. Your librarians should never use the database user. You have to login with that user and create real users for them.
00:25 jcamins_away    The database user should basically be used only by the system administrator.
00:25 jcamins_away    And if the system administrator has to look up the password with sudo, that's a good thing.
00:25 * jcamins_away  leaves, after giving eythian a significant look about the packaging patches.
00:26 rangi           hes in training all day
00:26 drojf           hibye jcamins_away ;)
00:26 rangi           with http://schwern.net/
00:29 drojf           hi rangi. that guy made a lot of perl stuff
00:29 drojf           DNA-0.03 	Encodes your Perl program into an Nucleic Acid sequence <-- sounds like something everybody needs :)
00:30 rangi           we use a ton of his stuff
00:30 rangi           like Test::Simple
00:31 rangi           he also knows a crapton about git
00:31 rangi           which is what cjh, wizzyrea_away and eythian_ are at today
00:31 drojf           cool
00:31 drojf           i wish cool people would come to me to teach me stuff
00:31 rangi           tomorrow is modern perl and style
00:31 rangi           im going to those 2
00:32 * dcook         = jealous
00:32 eythian_        jcamins_away: there's an issue with the k-c.org repo that needs to be fixed first though. Email has been sent.
00:32 * ibeardslee    was going to style, until the 'plan' was mangled at short notice.
00:33 rangi           well they had like 2 days to convince him to change his tickets and come to wellington, so im not sure you can do too much planning in that time
00:33 rangi           im just stoked they got him here at all
00:34 ibeardslee      that is true as well
00:34 eythian_        yeah, that plan was created at short notice, so I'm not sure it can be mangled :)
00:34 rangi           the git one ended up being a full day
00:34 rangi           so things got pushed
00:35 drojf           i'd probably have to learn a lot more before i could thoroughly enjoy such sessions
00:35 eythian_        drojf: you'd know enough for this one
00:35 drojf           cool, i'll come by ;)
00:36 rangi           drojf: a much shorter version of his git talk is available as a video online
00:37 rangi           http://mirror.linux.org.au/linux.conf.au/2013/ogv/Git_For_Ages_4_And_Up.ogv
00:37 ibeardslee      it's a pity the git one was miss named .. I would have like to have been able to plan on making it.
00:38 drojf           cool, thanks. love the title
00:38 rangi           *nod*
00:45 drojf           i shouldn't start watching git videos at half past one in the morning. but it is a nice speaker
00:46 drojf           s/it/he
00:46 rangi           yeah he is
00:46 rangi           http://www.grabone.co.nz/wellington/nz-flight-training-9  <-- looks like fun!
01:09 dcook           Hmm, apparently Koha 3.8 and older versions of IE really do not get along...
01:09 rangi           i have no issues with that :)
01:09 dcook           :p
01:09 rangi           using older version of IE on the internet is incredibly dangerous
01:11 dcook           Hmm, seems like it
01:12 dcook           Why are IT departments the ones who are keeping organizations on old versions of IE then?
01:12 rangi           heck even microsoft tell people not to
01:12 drojf           koha should hand out an exploit that automatically does format c: and installs linux to older IE versions :P just kidding. maybe
01:13 rangi           heh
01:16 dcook           While I think everyone hates IE, what are some preferred browsers out there?
01:17 rangi           firefox and chrome
01:17 rangi           both of them render js a lot faster than IE
01:17 rangi           as an added bonus
01:18 rangi           so cataloguing is faster
01:18 dcook           They must have their opponents as well though
01:18 dcook           Besides corporate IT
01:18 rangi           hmm not really
01:18 drojf           [off] dcook: from my experience, the construct of an "IT department", at least in public service, sometimes accomodates old men too lazy to learn something new. pre-internet, very pre-»digital native« people that at some point choose to never learn anything new again. just do business as usual forever. people that »grew up« in the stuff they are doing when it was cool & important to have a microsoft certificate for something. people that at some poi
01:18 rangi           i dont find anyone who likes IE
01:18 rangi           just people forced to use it
01:18 drojf           ./rant ;)
01:19 dcook           ;)
01:19 dcook           That's what I've found as well
01:19 dcook           People forced to use it
01:19 dcook           But I just don't understand why someone or something would force it upon them
01:19 rangi           usually it boils down the reasons drojf mentioned
01:19 dcook           Mmm
01:19 rangi           IT depts have forgotten what they are for
01:20 rangi           they are there to serve the users
01:20 rangi           a lot of them think their time is more important, and so they do what is easiest for them
01:20 drojf           i have heard of organisations that had someone develop $stuff for them, and that only works with IE 6. so they will use it forever. because they paid for $stuff 10+ years ago
01:20 rangi           there is that too
01:20 dcook           Mmm, I've also heard this
01:20 rangi           a lot of south korea is run on activex
01:21 rangi           they they locked to IE
01:21 rangi           and old IE
01:21 drojf           does activex still exist? :)
01:21 rangi           nope
01:21 rangi           only in old IE
01:21 drojf           heh
01:21 mtj             ^^ alot of old govt/corperate webapps only run on IE/activex, and its too expensive to fix them
01:21 rangi           thats why open standards/languages are so much better
01:22 dcook           I certainly would not disagree
01:24 mtj             .. ive heard the same stories from govt.nz IT staff too
01:25 rangi           lots of intranets
01:25 mtj             yep, stuck on ie/activex/winxp
01:26 drojf           there seems to be a strong interest in MS preventing that. we had the city of munich switch to linux for public services and lately there has been a "study" that came to the result that everything would be cheaper if they [i don't remeber: either »would not have switched to linux« or even »would switch back to MS now«]. a study initiated by MS and they also left out the license costs for MS products. that is the point where i stopped reading. there
01:27 rangi           yeah
01:27 dcook           Ugh
01:27 dcook           Reminds me of a few non-IT studies that I've read in recent years.
01:28 dcook           Always done by the producers of the product being marketed, of course
01:28 rangi           yep
01:31 drojf           i mean… it's really easy at least for future employees. make it a rule to only use and teach free(dom) software in schools/ universities. bam, nobody cries if s/he cannot use MS word. but of course MS goes into schools and universities and throws their stuff out for free and for some reasons that i don't understand, people are buying into that
01:31 drojf           [off] same as liblime btw
01:32 rangi           people look at now, not tomorrow
01:32 rangi           </gross generalisation>
01:32 dcook           hehe
01:33 drojf           true, unfortunately. for most people in charge of something. now and immediate future is what is important to get you re-/elected for $whatever
01:33 rangi           yup
01:34 dcook           Mmm, very true
01:34 drojf           people don't remember what cool stuff you did 5 or 10 years ago
01:34 drojf           so why care? :/
01:34 dcook           Yet, the trend is to follow the trends :p
01:34 rangi           dcook: but in libraryland usually after the trend is no longer relevant
01:34 rangi           :)
01:34 dcook           Very true
01:34 wahanui         I know. That's why I said it.
01:34 rangi           heh wahanui
01:34 wahanui         it has been said that heh i am good
01:35 drojf           you are :D
01:43 drojf           the longer i think about it… the preference of making people use proprietary software instead of free software and the privatisation of public goods (think water, electricy, public transportation…) seems to be propagated by the same (kind of) people. and no matter how hard i try, i cannot find a valid reason for it, besides bribes and corruption. what positive outcome for the general public to there ever be?
01:44 drojf           could there ever be
01:45 rangi           there isn't
01:45 rangi           but they don't care about that
01:45 dcook           I think the argument for proprietary software might include security/reliability (which is bogus as we've already pointed out), and as for privatisation of public goods, I think the idea is that competition allows for cheaper prices and more efficiency (which is also quite bogus)
01:45 rangi           yep
01:46 rangi           and those are reasons thought up to try to give some legitimacy to what is a fairly thinly disguised money grab
01:46 dcook           I'm originally from a conservative region where the privatization of public goods has been a hot topic for years (despite our province also being the birthplace of medicare and the first province to be entirely electrified, as well as filled to the brim with co-ops that we all used for our banks, our grocery stores, our gas stations, etc)
01:46 rangi           privatise profit, socialise losses
01:46 rangi           its a trend
01:46 rangi           cept in iceland
01:46 rangi           :)
01:47 dcook           Oh?
01:47 rangi           they had a referendum
01:47 rangi           voted to not bail out the banks
01:47 rangi           and jailed the bankers instead
01:48 dcook           Whoa!
01:48 rangi           http://newschooljournal.com/2012/04/icelands-revolutionary-crisis-response/
01:48 dcook           What happened after that?
01:48 rangi           one of the few growing economies in the world
01:49 rangi           the debt is all not real anyway
01:49 drojf           dcook: it can never be cheaper than the actual costs. so either your public service used to put a lot of extra stuff on the bill that did not have to do with anything and taking that out makes it look cheaper, or you are being betrayed. or, they screw with the environment and/or people, and for instance throw out waste into the ocean, which might reduce costs. but that is something nobody would want ( i hope)
01:49 rangi           only about 1/3 of money in circulation actually exists
01:49 drojf           iceland++
01:50 drojf           css--
01:50 drojf           well, it's probably me, not css
01:51 dcook           ie--
01:51 dcook           iceland++
01:51 dcook           Fair enough, drojf
01:51 dcook           Admittedly, as we have mentioned though, there is a lot of waste in public service  when the motto of "business as usual" is followed.
01:52 dcook           I'd rather stronger reviews in public service than privatisation though
01:53 dcook           As you say, it can never be cheaper than the actual costs
01:53 dcook           My reasoning might be full of holes atm. Still no air conditioning. Brain might be melting.
01:54 drojf           that is what privatisation / »public-private partnership« is all about. to make you believe it is possible to do it cheaper.
01:54 dcook           Well, I suppose that's capitalism in general even
01:58 drojf           i think so, yes
02:02 dcook           Hmm, anyone have any idea what the "* HTML DIV" type styles are for in staff-global.css?
02:04 drojf           given that i completely fail to understand css every time i try to use it (like, now), i would not dare to answer that
02:04 rangi           heh
02:04 dcook           Hehe. Fair enough.
02:04 rangi           yeah me too
02:04 dcook           What are you getting up to with CSS?
02:05 dcook           I've used the * selector before, but always after the elements, not before. As far as I know, using it in this context is redundant
02:05 dcook           But then applying height and overflow attributes to ever div seems odd as well
02:05 dcook           Although it doesn't seem to be a problem in any browser except the old ones
02:05 * dcook         assumes Owen will have an answer
02:05 rangi           he usually does
02:08 drojf           [off] benefit of being up in the middle of the night: new simpsons episode right when it is fresh
02:09 dcook           Mmm
02:10 * dcook         just remembered that putting a * before the elements in CSS is a IE specific hack
02:10 dcook           In this case, it seems to be a silly one as it creates a problem rather than fixing one...
02:10 dcook           No wonder it doesn't affect modern browsers
02:15 drojf           dcook: don't forget that you need a special hack for probably every version of IE
02:15 dcook           Mmm, good point
02:15 dcook           I'm a bit surprised to find no comments around this one though
02:19 drojf           err. whatever i have been doing i could fix by *throwing out all css about that element*. and it only took me 30+min to figure it out. just to reinforce i should not answer any questions regarding css ;)
02:21 dcook           Hehe. Understood ;)
02:25 dcook           Hmm. Well, I'm going to join you on that one. Seems like that IE hack has been there for years...and somehow isn't the cause of the problem, even though turning it off in my problem situation fixes the problem...
02:32 mtj             dcook, curious what browser are you testing on?
02:32 dcook           Internet Explorer, of course
02:32 dcook           I'm using 9 with the F12 developer tools
02:33 dcook           I'm getting the issues when I use the Quirks mode document mode
02:33 dcook           Of course
02:33 dcook           I think someone is using IE 6 and getting problems, but it looks to me that they must've always had problems with any version of Koha
02:34 dcook           I've double-checked the back-up though, and it does look like the IE hack is the one creating the problem, which it probably was meant to solve?
02:48 eythian_        http://docs.bugseverywhere.org/master/
02:52 rangi           thats like cil that andy did
02:52 rangi           https://github.com/chilts/cil
02:53 eythian_        yeah
02:54 drojf           good night
02:54 wahanui         I watch you sleep.
02:54 drojf           i know :/
02:56 eythian_        wahanui: good night is also <reply>I'll be waiting for you to come back, $who.
02:56 wahanui         okay, eythian_.
03:13 mtj             andy's cil thing looks well clever
04:02 mtj             schema?
04:02 wahanui         i guess schema is tracked in git. or found at http://schema.koha-community.org
04:05 Brooke          kia ora
04:09 mtj             hey Brooke
04:09 Brooke          what's up?
04:09 mtj             whole lotta shakin'
04:10 Brooke          roger that
04:12 mtj             sorry i missed seeing-you-off at the airport in wgtn, i got crazy sick the day before… :/
04:12 mtj             (not sure if we've chatted since then?)
04:17 Brooke          thought we did
04:17 Brooke          it's all good
04:18 Brooke          you were so sweet when I was there :)
05:17 govind          koha installation
05:54 paul_p          hello #koha
05:54 dcook           morning, paul_p
05:55 paul_p          dcook morning almost finished where I am now (Delhi, india). I'm here for ICAL2013 (http://www.ipu.ac.in/ical2013/index.htm)
05:56 dcook           I was wondering why your ip was different :p
05:57 dcook           Hmm, the link didn't work for me
05:57 dcook           How is it?
05:59 paul_p          dcook = it starts tomorrow, so for the conference, I don't know how it is. For Delhi & India, my main surprise is that the weather is very very nice. Something like 15° in the morning, and 20-25° during the day. So different compared to Mumbai in oct (KohaCon11)
05:59 paul_p          dcook ICAL = International Conference for Academic Libraries. The main topic being "cloud computing" (and of course Koha as ILS on the cloud). 250-300 registrations
06:03 * paul_p        still impressed to see what happened in the last 10 years, since the 1st mail I sent to koha mailing list saying "i'll work on Koha" (because my employer just goes bankrupcy & i've a religious library friend of mine that is looking for a free ILS)
06:04 dcook           Hehe
06:04 dcook           Well, I'm glad to hear that the weather has been nice
06:04 dcook           I'm sure ICAL will be very interesting, especially since it seems that Koha is increasingly popular in India
06:05 dcook           I would like to hear more about how you got involved in the project actually, but I have to run along to prepare for a dinner party
06:05 dcook           I actually just took a look at the number of patches I've had pushed since my first last March. I think it's around 24. Not too bad considering I was out of commission for 4.5 months and incredibly busy.
06:06 dcook           Hopefully, I'll find some time soon to actually start signing off more patches than just adding to the pile
06:07 dcook           En tout cas, bonne chance demain, paul_p. Bonne journée :)
06:49 magnuse         heh http://xkcd.com/1172/
06:54 cait            morning magnuse :)
06:55 cait            lol
07:14 magnuse         hiya cait
07:18 cait            morning :)
07:18 cait            oh repeating myself...
07:18 magnuse         in norway we say that a good thing can not be said too often ;-)
07:21 cait            :)
07:21 cait            @wunder Konstanz
07:21 huginn          cait: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is -5.0°C (8:00 AM CET on February 11, 2013). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: -6.0°C. Pressure: 29.61 in 1003 hPa (Falling).
07:41 magnuse         @wunder boo
07:41 huginn          magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -4.0°C (8:20 AM CET on February 11, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 69%. Dew Point: -9.0°C. Windchill: -11.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Steady).
07:42 magnuse         windchill--
07:42 magnuse         @wunder karasjok
07:42 huginn          magnuse: The current temperature in Karasjok, Norway is -22.2°C (8:39 AM CET on February 11, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: -25.0°C. Windchill: -22.0°C. Pressure: 30.30 in 1026 hPa (Steady).
07:42 magnuse         @wunder kautokeino
07:42 huginn          magnuse: The current temperature in Kautokeino, Norway is -24.0°C (7:00 AM CET on February 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: -27.0°C. Pressure: 30.37 in 1028 hPa (Rising).
07:42 magnuse         @wunder rrs
07:42 huginn          magnuse: The current temperature in Roros Lufthavn, Norway is -9.0°C (8:20 AM CET on February 11, 2013). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 86%. Dew Point: -11.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Rising).
07:43 * magnuse       wonders if the change from XML::SAX to XML::LibXML in MARC::File::XML affects the koha installation process
07:47 reiveune        hello
07:47 wahanui         hola, reiveune
07:47 cait            bbl
07:47 magnuse         bonjour reiveune
07:52 marcelr         hi koha
07:53 magnuse         cait++ for qa'ing
07:54 magnuse         hiya marcelr
07:57 asaurat         hi
07:57 wahanui         salut, asaurat
08:00 gaetan_B        hello
08:00 ambars          hi
08:02 ambars          i got my koha setup working and it's looking great!
08:02 ambars          :)
08:02 ambars          thank you, koha!
08:02 alex_a          bonjour
08:02 wahanui         hello, alex_a
08:04 magnuse         @wunder marseille
08:04 huginn          magnuse: The current temperature in Realtor, CABRIES, France is 6.8°C (9:01 AM CET on February 11, 2013). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 35%. Dew Point: -8.0°C. Windchill: 7.0°C. Pressure: 29.50 in 999 hPa (Steady).
08:06 marcelr         hi magnuse asaurat alex_a
08:14 alex_a          hi Manderson
08:14 alex_a          hi marcelr
08:23 marcelr         hi kf: thx for qa
08:23 kf              marcelr: you are welcome
08:23 kf              marcelr: I haven't had much time lately - very sorry for that
08:23 marcelr         i know that
08:23 marcelr         :)
08:23 kf              hope it will be better next week, some deadlines form my distance study will be over then
08:23 kf              and either I made them... or not :)
08:23 marcelr         ok
08:24 marcelr         queue is quite large
08:25 kf              yeah :(
08:26 kf              I only had about half an hour this morning, so didn't tackle the bigger patches
08:26 kf              but there is lots
08:26 kf              and lots of good things too
08:27 marcelr         yeah, just the number is misleading..
08:27 kf              i would love to see bootstrap replacing yui for example
08:27 kf              for better accessibility
08:27 marcelr         seems a big one
08:28 kf              yeah
08:28 kf              but probably not as hard to test as some of the circ stuff
08:28 kf              we will see.
08:28 marcelr         yes
08:28 kf              thx for your qa work :)
08:29 marcelr         it is not so much as i would like..
08:29 kf              i guess it never is...
08:29 kf              but as long as we keep moving it will be fine :)
08:43 tweetbot`       [off] twitter: @BibLibre: "L'article le plus consulté sur le blog la semaine dernière : La présentation de Koha 3.10 - http://t.co/uznaoC4F #kohails"
09:16 Herwig          Morning & help my users dissapeared in koha
09:16 Herwig          annyone had this ?
09:17 kf              Herwig: we need a bit more inforamtion to help you
09:17 kf              what do you mean by your users disappeared?
09:18 Herwig          i cant see them in the patron list
09:18 Herwig          friday they where still there
09:19 Herwig          or saterday
09:19 Herwig          and i tested 2 they can still login
09:19 Herwig          only the patron list is reste to a previous state
09:20 Herwig          i put in a lot off patrons last week
09:20 Herwig          now they are invissible :OP
09:20 Herwig          zebra ?
09:20 wahanui         i think zebra is a fielded free text indexing and retrieval engine with a Z39.50 front-end. You can use any compatible, commercial, or freeware Z39.50 client to access data stored in Zebra. or the search engine koha uses
09:21 kf              Herwig: you can't search them by name?
09:21 kf              did you update koha since then?
09:21 kf              patron search doesn't use zebra.
09:21 Herwig          no i only get me
09:21 kf              are they registered at other branches?
09:22 kf              did you activate the independentbranches system preference?
09:22 Herwig          i have 2 branches but did not do the other yet
09:22 Herwig          would reindexing help ?
09:22 kf              nope
09:22 kf              as I said
09:22 kf              patron search does not use zebra.
09:22 Herwig          oeps
09:22 kf              it's totally unrelated ;)
09:23 kf              my guess is, that you are logged in at another branch
09:23 kf              whatis your koha version?
09:23 Herwig          with branch you are reffering to the library ?
09:24 Herwig          3.08.09.000
09:25 kf              yes
09:25 kf              it will show up in the upper corner
09:25 kf              the branch you are logged in at
09:25 kf              can you go to the system preferences and check your setting for independentbranches?
09:26 Herwig          i can search myself but i'm  not under the corresponding letter wait i do what you say
09:28 Herwig          dont prevent
09:28 Herwig          it is
09:28 kf              hm
09:28 kf              I am not sure really
09:28 kf              I know that the search all functionaltiy does not work in 3.8
09:28 kf              so you have to give some search term
09:29 kf              or search for patrons at a library
09:29 Herwig          its like there  still in the database but i dont see them
09:29 Herwig          wait i try login as admin
09:30 kf              if your user don't has borrowers permission that could be another reaso
09:31 Herwig          no dont see annything
09:32 Herwig          the previous account was super librarian
09:32 Herwig          same with this one
09:33 kf              hm I am running out of ideas Herwig
09:34 Herwig          is it possible that the system restores to a previous state ?
09:35 Herwig          my collegue is reporting something diffrent missing
09:35 Herwig          i'm looking into it
09:35 kf              not the systemno
09:36 kf              I mean it can't restore to a previous state, it woudl have to be something an admin did
09:36 kf              server side
09:36 Herwig          i asked but they said no
09:36 Herwig          hmz
09:36 kf              yeah. hmpf.
09:37 Herwig          i do a database dump daily i try restore the friday one on a test machine and see what that brings
10:22 Herwig          we maybe found the problem ... disk space on the machine is 0 % left
10:23 Herwig          admin will make it bigger this afthernoon (its a virtual machine)
11:30 Herwig          kf: it's solved it was the diskspace but thx for the information
11:31 Herwig          even linux needs diskspace
11:53 kf              Herwig: makes sense - glad you found it
13:11 oleonard        Hi #koha
13:20 kf              hi oleonard
13:20 kf              oleonard: sorry for failing the acq navigation :(
13:20 oleonard        Sorry to keep making you test it over again :)
13:21 kf              no problem :)
13:24 magnuse         oleonard++ kf++
13:24 magnuse         namaste paul_p
13:24 kf              oleonard: and I always test those first again that I failed before... so it stays on top of my list
13:28 paul_p          namaste magnuse (internet connexion quite randomly working here...)
13:28 kf              hi paul_p :)
13:28 kf              how is India? :)
13:28 kf              an and zeno is coming to the hackfest
13:29 paul_p          kf surprisingly cold !!! weather is absolutely perfect. 15°C in the morning, 20-25° maximum. sunny, a tiny wind, really absolutely perfect !
13:29 kf              sounds nice :)
13:29 kf              not too warm
13:30 kf              hope you have a good time! what is this conf about?
13:31 paul_p          kf other than this, it can be compared to Mumbaï (lot of ppl, lot of pollution, lot of traffic, ...)
13:32 paul_p          kf it's ICAL2013 (International Conference for Academic Libraries). The main topic is "cloud computing, how can it help indian libraries"
13:32 kf              ah
13:32 kf              interesting
13:32 wahanui         i think interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
13:32 kf              here privacy is a big concern about cloud computing
13:33 kf              well... at least about clouds with servers somewhere
13:33 kf              oleonard++ #patching the chromium bug :)
13:34 oleonard        Should I get karma for patching a bug I caused? :)
13:34 kf              hm yes, because you care about it
14:21 jenkins_koha    Starting build #280 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago)
14:21 jenkins_koha    Project Koha_Docs build #280: STILL FAILING in 1 min 15 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/280/
14:21 jenkins_koha    Nicole C. Engard: add idreambooks images
14:26 kf              oleonard: seeing your fix for bug 9545 - I think I reported a bug in that area you might address
14:26 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9545 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Fix Import Marc Bibliographic Framework Text Label
14:27 kf              ah
14:27 kf              8558
14:27 kf              bug 8558
14:27 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8558 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Better confirmation message for importing frameworks
14:28 oleonard        Oh, I'm sorry I didn't see that before. I did revise that message in my fix for 9545 to make it more readable.
14:28 kf              was just checking your code to see if it might fix it :)
14:29 kf              I was only wondering if we coudl add the framework to the confirmation message
14:29 kf              because I always panic and wonder if I really clicked the right entry
14:29 oleonard        My fix doesn't address your bug, but I agree that it's a good idea
14:29 kf              thx for always working on the stray templates :)
14:50 jenkins_koha    Starting build #281 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago)
14:50 jenkins_koha    Project Koha_Docs build #281: STILL FAILING in 20 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/281/
14:50 jenkins_koha    Nicole C. Engard: add info on activate filters for holdings
14:58 oleonard        kf: I resubmitted my patch for Bug 8913 and left it as 'signed off' because the change was minor. If you disagree please feel free to set it to 'needs signoff'
14:58 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8913 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Signed Off , Improve acquisitions navigation
15:05 jenkins_koha    Starting build #282 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago)
15:05 jenkins_koha    Starting build #17 for job Koha_Docs_3.10.x (previous build: STILL FAILING)
15:05 jenkins_koha    Project Koha_Docs build #282: STILL FAILING in 22 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/282/
15:05 jenkins_koha    Nicole C. Engard: update permission descriptions
15:05 jenkins_koha    Project Koha_Docs_3.10.x build #17: STILL FAILING in 22 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.10.x/17/
15:05 jenkins_koha    Nicole C. Engard: update permission descriptions
15:13 kf              oleonard: it's ok for me :)
15:14 kf              do you want me to open a separate bug for the invoices page?
15:14 kf              it's rather new so I think you didn't cover it in your patch because it was not there back then
15:14 oleonard        I would like to handle further changes in follow-ups. If you think a separate bug is best I'm okay with that.
15:15 kf              I think jcamins_away likes it better if a bug is not reopened after pushing the initial feature
15:35 druthb          Wahoo!  The Pootle server now has a v3.12 project, and it includes the ccsr theme!  :D
15:37 druthb          translators++
15:40 kf              wahoo :)
15:41 magnuse         druthb++
15:41 druthb          I wanna get the ccsr theme on the 3.10 branch, tooooooo.
15:43 * kf            coughs loudly                                                                                              23426 words need attention
15:43 kf              omg.
15:43 drojf           ouch
15:44 drojf           how did that happen?
15:44 kf              new features I guess
15:44 kf              and rewritten templates
15:44 druthb          Most of it on staff, it looks like.
15:44 kf              but that's a good thing in general.. I mean fixing things
15:44 kf              druthb: most of it is always staff... it will get a lot worse when nicole submits her help files
15:45 drojf           if you want to read help files, learn english :P
15:45 * druthb        chains drojf to the desk, and locks the browser into Pootle.
15:45 drojf           noooooooo
15:45 * druthb        cracks the whip.
15:45 kf              you know the problem, we can't easily ignore the help files...
15:46 kf              lol
15:46 kf              druthb++ :P
15:46 druthb          For whip-crackin?
15:46 kf              for makign drojf do it :P
15:46 druthb          I dunno.  23Kwords.  Might need both of ya.
15:46 drojf           unfortunately i have to study instead of doing unpaid translation :P
15:47 druthb          Norwegian is a hot mess too.
15:47 * druthb        cracks the whip on magnuse, too
15:47 drojf           @seen mveron
15:47 huginn          drojf: mveron was last seen in #koha 4 weeks, 0 days, 8 hours, 13 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <mveron> BRB
15:47 drojf           hm
15:47 druthb          http://translate.koha-community.org/en_NZ/312/   #giggles
15:48 drojf           heh, nz english requires a lot of attention
15:49 drojf           when is translation time?
15:49 drojf           ah, i pout that on the wiki i think
15:50 drojf           String freeze - May 1  Starting on May 1, no patch (other than security patches) changing translatable strings will be accepted for Koha 3.12.0.
15:51 * magnuse       sighs
15:53 * magnuse       will hardly be upgrading to 3.12.0 anyway...
15:55 drojf           like, never?
15:56 drojf           oh, 3.12.0. that probably never
15:56 drojf           but the words won't go away, you know? ;)
15:56 * drojf         applies for the job of a pope
15:57 drojf           and then we will do vatikoha
15:58 drojf           in latin
15:59 kf              bernardo++ :)
16:00 kf              drojf: lol
16:00 kf              druthb: en-nz is cheating
16:00 kf              they just copy over
16:00 kf              most of it
16:00 wahanui         most of it is alive again afaict
16:00 druthb          wahanui: forget most of it
16:00 wahanui         druthb: I forgot most of it
16:02 * druthb        thinks drojf would make a dandy pope.  Plus, two German popes in a row--that's *never* happened.  We hadda wait a looooong time for this one, and he turned out to be...less awesome than his predecessor.
16:02 kf              drojf for pope!
16:02 * kf            hides
16:05 drojf           oh, and i would inherit the @pontifex twitter account \o/
16:14 reiveune        bye
16:18 druthb          no need to hide, kf; looks like drojf is all for it!
16:19 druthb          he has my vote, fer sure.
16:19 kf              druthb: more worried about everyone else
16:20 druthb          psst...hey, drojf...when you're Pope, will you talk to people about funding libraries better?  Oh, and that whole LGBT equality thing?  Yeah, Benedict XVI got it All Wrong, and people like me get killed by their (Catholic) neighbors a lot.
16:20 jenkins_koha    Starting build #18 for job Koha_Docs_3.10.x (previous build: STILL FAILING)
16:20 jenkins_koha    Starting build #283 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago)
16:20 jenkins_koha    Project Koha_Docs build #283: STILL FAILING in 20 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/283/
16:20 jenkins_koha    * Nicole C. Engard: update patron permissions
16:20 jenkins_koha    * Nicole C. Engard: small format fix
16:20 jenkins_koha    Project Koha_Docs_3.10.x build #18: STILL FAILING in 20 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.10.x/18/
16:20 jenkins_koha    * Nicole C. Engard: update patron permissions
16:20 jenkins_koha    * Nicole C. Engard: small format fix
16:21 druthb          :P
16:23 drojf           druthb: yeah i'm beginning to wonder where i will find enough LGBT hate to qualify for the job
16:23 drojf           also, faith in a god
16:24 druthb          That would be a problem, yes.
16:25 druthb          For someone who heads a religion that preaches universal love to all mankind, the incumbent sure seemed to dislike a lot of people.
16:26 drojf           true
16:27 drojf           but only because they are bad! :/
16:27 * druthb        suggests you ask any of her teammates, or kf, or any one of a dozen other regulars here, if she's a bad person, and then compare that to Benedict's opinion of me, and weigh appropriately.
16:28 alaquerre       HI all, - Question : How can we send Html email using notification  ? I do see the "Html Message" checkbox, but I'm not able to make it work ?
16:29 alaquerre       It's always plain text whatever I try.
16:31 kf              alaquerre: I think there is a wiki article that might be able to help you
16:31 kf              let me look for it
16:31 kf              I haven't tried myself yet, but I kinda filed away that ther was information ont he wiki if I wanted to :)
16:32 alaquerre       Do you know where that wiki is ? Can't find anything in the doc on that subject.
16:32 kf              give me a min
16:33 kf              http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Customising_Notices_and_Slips
16:33 kf              there are some examples that might be useful I think
16:34 alaquerre       That's what I was looking for. :-) Thanks for your help!
16:34 kf              you are welcome
16:34 kf              hope it works
16:35 jenkins_koha    Starting build #19 for job Koha_Docs_3.10.x (previous build: STILL FAILING)
16:35 jenkins_koha    Starting build #284 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago)
16:35 jenkins_koha    Project Koha_Docs build #284: STILL FAILING in 18 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/284/
16:35 jenkins_koha    Nicole C. Engard: update messaging preferences info
16:35 jenkins_koha    Project Koha_Docs_3.10.x build #19: STILL FAILING in 19 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.10.x/19/
16:35 jenkins_koha    Nicole C. Engard: update messaging preferences info
16:39 bag             morning
16:39 wahanui         rumour has it morning is a state of mind. or whenever the cat wants breakfast
16:39 chris_n         just when you thought you were safe: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/feb/10/raytheon-software-tracks-online-video
16:42 kf              hi chris_n and ba
16:42 kf              g
16:43 chris_n         heya kf
16:43 alaquerre       kf: Just an FYI : I was not able to make it work.  I tested it on "ACQCLAIM" notice and still getting plain text.  In the wiki you provided me, it mention : Only tested out on checkout and checkin.  Look like the process of "send letter" is not completly on this new way to work.
16:43 alaquerre       Just to let you know :-)
16:45 kf              alaquerre: aah
16:45 kf              don't do it with acqclaim
16:45 * drojf         tries to continue studying
16:45 kf              it probably won't work
16:45 kf              try it with checkout/checkin/due/predue or something like that
16:46 kf              I think serials/acq might not work I think
16:48 * kf            leaves :) bye all
16:48 kf              !
16:50 jenkins_koha    Starting build #285 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago)
16:50 jcamins_away    magnuse: why aren't you going to upgrade to 3.12?
16:50 jenkins_koha    Project Koha_Docs build #285: STILL FAILING in 20 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/285/
16:50 jenkins_koha    Nicole C. Engard: add HTML5 prefs
16:56 jcamins         HTML notices are not working.
16:56 jcamins         The HTML support broke all notices so I reverted it.
16:57 alaquerre       jcamins : okay thanks, I was not sure what I was doing wrong...
16:57 jcamins         Nothing. :)
16:58 * jcamins       suspects that kf blocked out my rage over the debacle from her memory.
16:58 * oleonard      remembers jcamins telling us how he woke up the next morning wearing nothing but a pair of stretched out purple pants
16:59 jcamins         lol
17:00 alaquerre       I'll ask you another question :-).  We are currently looking to put in place a "Google calendar" like system in Koha.  Mainly do deal with Hold.  What do you think of the idea ?  What we want to be able to easily put "hard hold" on item ( materials like camera, computer and stuff like that.)
17:00 jcamins         Ummm...
17:00 jcamins         I think I'd have to see a demo.
17:00 alaquerre       Where ? :-)
17:00 jcamins         However, the calendar _definitely_ needs to be overhauled.
17:00 alaquerre       ok sorry...
17:01 alaquerre       ok
17:01 jcamins         I'm having trouble envisioning the workflow with a working calendar.
17:02 alaquerre       What we think : Put a "google like" calendar when user click on "hold" on an item. We need to handle : recuring hold and blocking hold.
17:02 alaquerre       user = Staff at first...
17:03 alaquerre       We want to give the ability to let say : Hold a specific DVD for friday PM for 4 months.
17:03 jcamins         Ooh.
17:03 jcamins         That would be really cool!
17:03 jcamins         _Really_ cool.
17:03 alaquerre       We also want to have a "visual" display of the current DVD.
17:04 jcamins         I think it would be a huge undertaking, though.
17:04 alaquerre       I know :-) but right now, my user are dealing with a second software... ($$$)
17:05 jcamins         And I would remind you that with developments that big if you don't contribute code to the community in small chunks you end up with an expensive dead end.
17:05 jcamins         :)
17:05 alaquerre       Next question : I know we are into the opensource software, but how can I "make sure" it will be accepted. (you read in my mind)
17:06 jcamins         As it happens, I have written a veritable essay on how to make sure your developments go in.
17:06 jcamins         I will find it and share it.
17:07 alaquerre       Because I wont start this project if I know it's not accepted, and the internationale community will never be able to tell me it will be accepted... until it is :-)
17:07 alaquerre       I would luv to read on it.
17:08 pastebot        "jcamins" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "alaquerre: my screed on good development practices" (12 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/387
17:08 alaquerre       jcamins: Thanks
17:08 jcamins         You may need to paste that into a word processor. I had not realized it would end up with absurdly long lines like that.
17:09 oleonard        Was that originally an email to the list jcamins?
17:09 jcamins         oleonard: it was not.
17:10 oleonard        jcamins++ # great summary
17:10 jcamins         Thanks.
17:11 jcamins         Something else worth mentioning would be "ask for advice early and often."
17:11 oleonard        There are so many steps in that list which could, individually, sink a potential feature
17:14 oleonard        (if not followed)
17:14 alaquerre       All right, thanks for the advices.  If I catch it properly, we should in the first phase only put the "google calendar" system and make sure it's autorized by the community, then extend with reccuring hold, blocking hold and some other feature...
17:15 * slef          returns to kebab some more kittens
17:15 slef            yes, alaquerre woke the slef by mentioning the evil google
17:15 alaquerre       And this first phase would only replace the current calendar feature we have.
17:15 slef            if it's google, make sure it's optional
17:16 alaquerre       it "google like" and not "google" ;-)
17:17 slef            it's a trojan for privacy invasion and advert sales?
17:17 slef            ;)
17:18 jcamins         alaquerre: yeah, that would make sense. And in order to do that first step, you'll have to figure out exactly where the calendar needs to show up.
17:18 slef            chris_n: that doesn't surprise me one bit, sadly.  Do you have a CERT you can report it to?
17:18 alaquerre       slef:Do you prefer Microsoft Calendar ? ;-)
17:18 slef            alaquerre: I prefer the calendar we sell ;-)
17:18 slef            (based on sogo.nu)
17:19 alaquerre       jcamins : okay,let me do my homework with my community and I'll get back to you guys for questions/answers before we jump in.  THanks again!!!
17:19 jcamins         You're welcome. I look forward to seeing what you come up with!
17:19 jcamins         :D
17:19 alaquerre       ciao! leaving for lunch.
17:19 oleonard        slef: based on = customized?
17:19 * oleonard      hadn't heard of sogo
17:20 chris_n         slef: working on getting the logs together atm
17:20 jenkins_koha    Starting build #286 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago)
17:20 chris_n         they've worked from about 4 different ip blocks over the past 5 days
17:20 jenkins_koha    Project Koha_Docs build #286: STILL FAILING in 21 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/286/
17:20 jenkins_koha    Nicole C. Engard: update for branch limitations
17:21 slef            oleonard: integrated with a mailserver and cloud file synchronisation.
17:21 slef            oooh mardi gras tomorrow
17:26 oleonard        slef: Sounds  like a nice alternative to Google Apps for Business
17:28 bag             yeah mardi gras
17:28 bag             great contribution to the conversation there bag!
17:32 oleonard        bag: :)
17:35 jenkins_koha    Starting build #287 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 9 mo 19 days ago)
17:35 jenkins_koha    Project Koha_Docs build #287: STILL FAILING in 18 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/287/
17:35 jenkins_koha    Nicole C. Engard: update serial images with new closed status
17:43 oleonard        bgkriegel++ # for signoffs!
17:45 bgkriegel       :)
17:50 gaetan_B        bye!
17:53 oleonard        Do I recall correctly that jenkins fails the manual build because of &eacute; and &egrave; in the French translation?
17:53 jcamins         oleonard: something like that, yes.
17:54 oleonard        I wonder if there are others too
17:54 * oleonard      doesn't know how to run the test himself
17:54 jcamins         I don't know either, actually.
17:57 bgkriegel       I think is "xmllint --valid fr/manual.xml"
17:57 bgkriegel       that gives errors
17:57 cait            bgkriegel++
17:57 cait            lots of sign-offs!
17:58 bgkriegel       It's holiday here :)
17:58 cait            even bgkriegel++ then :)
17:58 bgkriegel       thanks
18:04 oleonard        xmllint doesn't like the numeric character reference for the euro symbol either, but it doesn't mind &euro; ?
18:04 oleonard        I wonder if the unicode is widely acceptable...
18:05 cait            I think it should be unicode
18:05 cait            else you can't do something like arabic
18:05 cait            probably
18:05 cait            hm. maybe I shoudl have dinner.
18:06 oleonard        maybe I should have lunch
18:06 * cait          nods
18:52 oleonard        xmllint gives other errors regarding the document structure...I'm surprised the original editor let them pass
18:53 * jcamins       just learned about XForms.
18:54 oleonard        nengard: What's the editor you use for the manual again?
18:54 jcamins         I have concluded it is not nearly as useful as one might hope.
18:57 nengard         oxygen
19:18 jcamins         @marc 541
19:18 huginn          jcamins: Information on the immediate source of acquisition of the described materials. The field is used primarily for original or historical items or other archival collections. (Repeatable) [a,b,c,d,e,f,h,n,o,3,5,6,8]
19:18 jcamins         @marc 545
19:18 huginn          jcamins: Biographical information about an individual or historical information about an institution or an event used as the main entry of the bibliographic record for the described materials. When a distinction between levels of detail is required, a brief summary is given in subfield $a and a fuller annotation is given in subfield $b. (Repeatable) [a,b,u,6,8]
19:18 jcamins         That's the one.
19:18 jcamins         @marc 561
19:18 huginn          jcamins: A copy-specific field that contains information concerning the ownership and custodial history of the described materials from the time of their creation to the time of their accessioning, including the time at which individual items or group of items were first brought together in their current arrangement or collation. (Repeatable) [a,3,5,6,8]
19:18 jcamins         @marc 563
19:19 huginn          jcamins: Intended primarily for use with antiquarian materials, rare books and other special collections. (Repeatable) [a,u,3,5,6,8]
19:35 jcamins         oleonard: you are quite right.
19:37 * jcamins       updates the bug to reflect the larger scope of the problem.
19:42 oleonard        jcamins: I'm glad you turned up Bug 3908, because I thought I was crazy for thinking I'd fixed Bug 7608 before
19:42 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3908 normal, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, oleonard, CLOSED FIXED, Edit subscription page shows manual history block by default
19:42 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7608 normal, P5 - low, ---, colin.campbell, Needs Signoff , Manual history is always 'enabled'
19:42 oleonard        Same fix too...
19:42 jcamins         Yeah, I was a little confused.
19:43 jcamins         I guess maybe 3908 went into 3.0-stable and not 3.1-devel.
19:47 * oleonard      notices step 8 in jcamins' patch's test plan, "Sign off on patch."
19:47 oleonard        So that's what I've been leaving out!
19:47 jcamins         Hehe.
19:47 jcamins         Just making sure all is clear.
19:48 oleonard        Actually I'm very lucky. I hardly ever have patches languish.
19:48 cait            because we love your patches :)
19:48 cait            hm I should look up languish just to make sure
19:49 cait            oh good
19:51 oleonard        :)
20:01 * wizzyrea_away waves
20:04 oleonard        The cascade of ternary operators at line 984+ of opac-detail.pl makes my head hurt.
20:07 * cait          sends aspirin and cookies
20:09 jcamins         Wow.
20:09 jcamins         Hi wizzyrea!
20:10 pastebot        "gmcharlt" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "oleonard: out of curiosity, does reformatting it like this help at all?" (7 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/388
20:10 jcamins         wizzyrea: any chance I could get you to revert commit c0e60a9079c8ffa970676172870eab75ccbcac5d from 3.6.x?
20:11 wizzyrea        sure
20:11 jcamins         Thanks!
20:11 jcamins         wizzyrea++
20:11 wizzyrea        also yes about the license - but not right this second
20:11 jcamins         License?
20:11 wahanui         hmmm... License is GPLv3+.
20:11 jcamins         Thanks, wahanui.
20:11 wahanui         jcamins: bitte
20:11 wizzyrea        you sent me a later
20:12 jcamins         I did?
20:12 jcamins         Oh, yes!
20:12 oleonard        Like three days ago eh?
20:12 jcamins         I did!
20:12 * wizzyrea      hasn't been around
20:16 jcamins         I hope you were doing something fun? :)
20:16 wizzyrea        git training :P
20:16 jcamins         Nice!
20:18 * wizzyrea      would talk more but can't at the moment :(
20:20 * oleonard      shushes everyone so that wizzyrea can get back to listening to the tumblers on the safe
20:20 jcamins         Hehe.
20:22 cait            wizzyrea: git training sounds fun :)
20:51 oleonard        The size of this search form is too damn wide! http://screencast.com/t/HWpyLdoU
20:51 cait            yep
20:51 cait            I thought that too today
20:52 cait            maybe some of it could be part of the + part?
20:52 oleonard        I thought it was another HTML5 bug at first. I guess I hadn't noticed the new option yet
20:52 cait            I think it was something slef did not too long ago
20:53 oleonard        cait: I'm thinking maybe show just the text input and the "search fields" option?
20:53 jcamins         Wow, that's really wide!
20:53 slef            oh patrons search?
20:53 cait            yes
20:53 cait            I like the functionality
20:53 oleonard        I'm sure that would make someone mad
20:53 cait            only it's bit much to take in
20:53 slef            (I can't see screencast)
20:53 * jcamins       vaguely remembers that the change was necessary to make the search work again.
20:54 slef            jcamins: FSVO "work". We'd lost functionality we used to have.
20:54 jcamins         Right.
20:54 cait            it's stil not finding all patrons when you send an empty serach...
20:54 cait            just noting. sigh.
20:54 cait            we used to have that too
20:57 cait            hm
20:57 cait            someone an idea about bug 9579?
20:57 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9579 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED WORKSFORME, Incorrect display of UNICODE symbols in 'Refine Search Results'
20:57 cait            my armenian is a bit rusty...
20:57 jcamins         No idea.
20:58 slef            cait: search for _ or __ IIRC, but that's a bug.
20:58 cait            slef: huh?
20:58 slef            "finding all patrons when you send an empty serach"
20:58 cait            you are confusing me :)
20:58 cait            but that's easy to do
21:03 oleonard        Search for an empty space I think cait. " "
21:03 cait            ah thx!
21:03 oleonard        Sorry wahanui, did that disagree with you?
21:04 eythian_        wahanui has fainting spells
21:04 wahanui         eythian_: i'm not following you...
21:06 slef            huh?
21:06 slef            wahanui: huh?
21:06 wahanui         i don't know, slef
21:10 oleonard        Do people use the "order by" option when searching patrons?
21:10 cait            hm not sure
21:15 oleonard        talljoy++
21:15 oleonard        Thanks for your help with patron deletions talljoy
21:16 talljoy         no problem.  thank goodness for backups!
21:16 bag             YAY backups!
21:54 rangi           eythian_: puck was telling me tinymce2 isn't in wheezy (it was in squeeze but has been taken out)
21:54 rangi           so we might have to look into replacing that
21:54 eythian_        oh, that's unfortunate.
21:55 eythian_        Actually, I can't remember if we use the packaged version or not, I'd have to check.
22:09 alohabot        Hi mib_cn8suk, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
22:09 mib_cn8suk      hello to everybody
22:09 mib_cn8suk      anyone works with SSO, and proxy CAS?
22:12 rangi           not me im afraid
22:12 jcamins         Not me.
22:12 mib_cn8suk      ok
22:12 mib_cn8suk      Its driving me mad
22:12 mib_cn8suk      :(
22:16 dcook           Morning, #koha
22:20 bag             morning dcook
22:20 bag             hopefully good
22:22 dcook           The weather outside has cooled off a bit but the office is still a bit of a hot box. Reasonably good nonetheless though :)
22:22 dcook           It's afternoon there?
22:24 bag             yup about 2:30
22:24 eythian_        @wunder nzwn
22:24 huginn          eythian_: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 19.0°C (11:00 AM NZDT on February 12, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Falling).
22:24 bag             @wunder 93102
22:24 huginn          bag: The current temperature in Near Mission - TC, Santa Barbara, California is 14.9°C (2:22 PM PST on February 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 22%. Dew Point: -7.0°C. Pressure: 30.13 in 1020 hPa (Falling).
22:26 dcook           @wunder sydney, australia
22:26 huginn          dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 20.0°C (9:00 AM EST on February 12, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady).
22:27 dcook           Santa Barbara sounds pretty good about now ;)
22:28 bag             it always sounds about the same :)
22:28 bag             maybe in the summer we get up to 24
22:29 tweetbot`       [off] twitter: @ranginui: "@TheRealArty you can login in with it, https://t.co/14Czoo9M so if your user has its email set in #kohails to one you use with persona"
22:29 tweetbot`       [off] twitter: @ranginui: "yay my mozilla persona patch for #kohails has been signed off by a developer from argentina"
22:30 dcook           Oh neat
22:30 dcook           I went to uni with TheRealArty
22:30 rangi           yep, i gave her chocolate at access 2011
22:30 dcook           Always a surefire way to win someone over ;)
22:30 rangi           cos she submitted a bug report for koha, in shirley lews class
22:30 dcook           Hehe. Sweet.
22:31 bag             ah shirley lew!
22:31 dcook           Alas, I did not end up taking that class, as I was here in Aus
22:31 bag             we are hosting her "sandbox"
22:31 rangi           yep
22:32 dcook           As far as I know, she's not teaching at SLAIS anymore :/
22:37 dcook           Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel has been a machine lately. It's great!
22:37 rangi           yep
22:38 dcook           I guess I need to find some other bugs to test now though :p
22:39 rangi           there's plenty ;)
22:40 dcook           Actually, that reminds me...
22:40 dcook           Off the top of your head, does Zebra require any tweaks to work with a dev install?
22:42 jcamins         No.
22:42 dcook           I love your brevity, jcamins ;)
22:42 dcook           Good to know
22:44 bag             tweaks in what sense?
22:44 bag             dom or grs1?
22:47 jcamins         None.
22:48 jcamins         You can use either without modifying any configuration files manually.
22:49 * bag           didn't understand the term "tweaks"  I guess I have a different definition than jared (my bad)
22:49 bag             :)
22:49 dcook           Sorry, bag. I meant in terms of modifying files manually
22:50 bag             ahhh than we are all good dcook - that's all the matters :)
22:50 dcook           For some reason, I haven't gotten Zebra to work on my dev install yet, and I haven't had the time to really focus on getting it up and running yet. But...when I do...it'll help with testing patches
22:50 dcook           I thought that switching between dom and grs1 did require changes outside of the webui though. Mind you, I haven't looked at that since last year either
22:52 bag             I've seen that sometimes there are some group/user issues with the daemon before
22:54 dcook           Hmm. How do you mean?
22:55 bag             looking one sec
22:55 dcook           Sure. Thanks, bag :)
22:57 bag             http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=misc/bin/koha-zebra-ctl.sh
22:57 bag             the GROUP and USER statement there
22:57 bag             but it has been awhile since I've gone from step one of the install docs - so my knowledge could be a bit "old"
22:58 bag             which has been proven before :P
23:02 dcook           Ohhh...I think I might see what you're saying
23:02 dcook           Hmm, maybe not
23:03 bag             HA see what I mean
23:04 dcook           Well, I'm still rather new to Linux and Zebra, so I'm probably just missing something
23:05 bag             yeah permissions was what got me BIG time in the beginning
23:05 jcamins         dcook: you should be using your user rather than sudo for all Zebra-related commands.
23:05 dcook           Permissions definitely gave me quite a headache at first too. I'm sure jcamins could attest to that with my early patches
23:06 jcamins         That's what bag was getting at. :)
23:06 dcook           Ahh
23:06 dcook           Thanks for the clarification :)
23:06 dcook           I don't have root access anyway, so I'm always doing everything as a user
23:08 dcook           Wait...
23:09 dcook           But "a user" and "your user" are different, as the user specified in that file is koha whereas I'm logged in as a different user
23:15 dcook           I've never had to use the Zebra u/n and p/w when using yaz though, so I'm thinking perhaps this isn't the issue.
23:15 dcook           I'm trying a re-index now, and I think it might be working
23:16 * dcook         thinks the issue might've been that I wasn't exporting my PERL5LIB and Koha_conf before...
23:16 jcamins         No, I meant your login user.
23:16 jcamins         And, yeah, PERL5LIB and KOHA_CONF are very important.
23:17 dcook           :P
23:18 dcook           In the past, I think I just saw errors when I tried something, and I chocked it up to inexperience, so I put it off for another time.
23:19 dcook           One of these days, I'm going to do a standard install and a dev install from scratch, and right up some wiki docs from the "rookie" perspective.
23:19 dcook           Hmm..
23:19 dcook           Ok, now I'm thinking that it is a permission/user issue
23:20 dcook           10:11:20-12/02 zebraidx(4995) [warn] zebra_lock_create fail fname=.../lock/zebradb/biblios/norm..LCK [Permission denied]
23:20 dcook           10:11:20-12/02 zebraidx(4995) [warn] zebra_lock_create fail fname=.../lock/zebradb/biblios/shadow..LCK [Permission denied]
23:20 dcook           10:11:20-12/02 zebraidx(4995) [fatal] Could not select database biblios errCode=109
23:20 dcook           10:11:20-12/02 zebraidx(4996) [warn] zebra_lock_create fail fname=.../lock/zebradb/biblios/norm..LCK [Permission denied]
23:20 dcook           10:11:20-12/02 zebraidx(4996) [warn] zebra_lock_create fail fname=/.../lock/zebradb/biblios/shadow..LCK [Permission denied]
23:20 dcook           10:11:20-12/02 zebraidx(4996) [fatal] Could not select database biblios errCode=109
23:20 eythian_        if you've run it as root, you've probably broken all your permissions.
23:21 dcook           I've never run as root, but perhaps someone else has?
23:21 dcook           I'm not running as the Zebra user though
23:21 eythian_        you typically run it as the koha user
23:21 eythian_        you don't normally have a zebra user
23:22 dcook           Hmm
23:22 dcook           And the koha user is which one?
23:22 dcook           bag, the one mentioned in koha-zebra-ctl.sh?
23:22 eythian_        have a look through your users and see if you have one. It's often called koha.
23:23 jcamins         dcook: in a dev install, the koha user is the one that you installed Koha as.
23:23 eythian_        oh, dev install
23:23 wahanui         dev install is on, some cataloging already goin, so I guess I;m almost there
23:23 dcook           Hmm
23:23 jcamins         So if the git clone is /home/dcook/kohaclone, it's probably dcook.
23:23 eythian_        yeah, often just your own user.
23:23 dcook           I didn't do the dev install though
23:23 eythian_        what did you do then?
23:23 dcook           I suggested running a dev install, and my boss is the one who did it
23:24 dcook           When you do the dev install, is your user picked up and written into a config somewhere?
23:24 eythian_        no
23:24 eythian_        it's just the owner of the files
23:25 dcook           Hmm
23:26 dcook           Well, I am the owner, so maybe he did use my user
23:26 dcook           Unless he chowned it afterward
23:26 eythian_        why don't you check?
23:26 bgkriegel       dcook: do an 'ls -l'
23:26 eythian_        who owns the lock files that you are getting the errors on?
23:26 dcook           Just did, and yeah I'm the owner
23:26 dcook           Ah
23:26 dcook           That...makes more sense, eythian_, lol
23:26 * dcook         facepalm
23:28 dcook           I'm the owner of the git, but not the dev directory with all the symbolic links
23:28 eythian_        More importantly, who owns the lock file and the zebra database files.
23:29 eythian_        that's what your problem is. You are best looking at your problem to start with.
23:29 dcook           Reasonable advice is reasonable
23:31 * dcook         is running the re-index now
23:32 dcook           It's very interesting going from front-end support to back-end support. Zebra was always made to seem very mystical, but it's all logic...
23:32 eythian_        it'll go back to being mystical soon enough
23:33 dcook           Without a doubt
23:33 dcook           10:26:53-12/02 zebraidx(9184) [warn] Unknown register type:
23:33 dcook           At least some records seem to have been indexed though
23:37 dcook           Or maybe they were all indexed. I see a Zebralist post from Fridolyn regarding unknown register type but those had a type code in the warning...
23:37 dcook           In any case, thanks heaps eythian_ and jcamins!
23:38 eythian_        I have no idea what that error means
23:38 dcook           I'll investigate :)
23:38 dcook           My search is finally working now regardless, although I'd hate to ignore any error message...
23:38 bag             :)
23:39 dcook           Thanks to you too, bag!
23:39 bag             sorry checked out there for a bit - but eythian is great!
23:40 dcook           I think I'm going to have to buy quite a few thank you beers in October :p
23:42 jcamins         That warning is nothing to worry about.
23:42 dcook           No?
23:42 wahanui         http://i.imgur.com/hVVuP.jpg
23:43 dcook           lol
23:43 jcamins         Annoying, but not disastrous.
23:43 dcook           What's it caused by?
23:53 dcook           Hmm. I'll have to keep it in the back of my mind
23:55 dcook           And to have incrementalzebra.pl working, you need to set up a cronjob