Time  Nick           Message
23:59 rangi          not the translation stuff shouldnt
23:59 rangi          hmm?
23:59 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8215 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Signed Off , Add Course Reserves
23:59 wajasu         rangi: i think i agree with khall about keeping bug 8215 signed off.  its usable, but its taking so long to get there.  i think what kf found might be better as a separate bug.
23:58 rangi          nice
23:57 ibeardslee     although the plan is still to do flac and have a simple export to alternate codecs depending on the purpose
23:54 ibeardslee     hmmm still might wait a while before I rerip all my CDs
23:54 wajasu         great. one step closer to phone/video calls being internet/web enabled without the middle men.
23:51 rangi          die mp3 die
23:51 rangi          https://hacks.mozilla.org/2012/09/its-opus-it-rocks-and-now-its-an-audio-codec-standard/
23:51 rangi          yay!
21:38 * jcamins      heads out to an exhibition opening.
21:33 wizzyrea       ohsnap
21:32 rangi          maybe he only likes proprietary humidity
21:32 jcamins        wizzyrea: it's too humid.
21:32 rangi          no idea
21:32 wizzyrea       what was that about lol
21:30 cait           night all
21:20 rangi          ok then
21:19 mbalmer        shit.
21:19 huginn         mbalmer: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 19.0°C (11:00 PM CEST on September 11, 2012). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Rising).
21:19 mbalmer        @wunder konstanz
21:11 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7143 trivial, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, ASSIGNED , Bug for tracking changes to the about page
21:11 rangi          bug 7143
21:11 bag            bummer
21:11 bag            history bug?
21:11 bag            sweet
21:11 rangi          there is one
21:10 bag            hey rangi if we are sending a patch for updating the history for Koha - do we need to make a bug?  (I can't remember)
21:10 talljoy        nom nom nom
21:09 wahanui        I CRUNCH DATA or kicking butt at words with friends
21:09 talljoy        talljoy?
21:09 huginn         rangi: Karma for "talljoy" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4.
21:09 rangi          @karma talljoy
21:08 talljoy        lol
21:08 bag            YAY
21:08 rangi          talljoy++ #signing off
21:08 talljoy        :-D
21:08 bag            talljoy++
21:06 rangi          missing a /
21:06 rangi          heh
21:06 rangi          names
20:33 oleonard       I'm off. See you #koha.
20:21 rangi          heh
20:20 oleonard       ...wandering the halls aimlessly
20:20 rangi          its probably still in bugzilla somewhere
20:20 rangi          there was a bug for that, reed was going to work on it
20:19 chris_n        a 'koha' sip trunk might be a nice addition :)
20:18 * chris_n      is neck deep in the asterisk learning curve
20:17 chris_n        hadn't thought of that; I'll check it
20:17 rangi          check /etc/cron.daily/koha-common
20:17 cait           yeah
20:17 rangi          hmm it might be a cron job running doing that
20:16 chris_n        or messages rather
20:16 chris_n        not sure how
20:16 chris_n        somewhere along the way the notices table got truncated I think
20:16 jcamins        "Ooh, chris_n has encountered a problem."
20:16 chris_n        ouch!
20:16 chris_n        but that's a small loss
20:16 jcamins        Though, it was a great smoke test.
20:16 rangi          about 200 libraries in the philipines are using 2.2.9
20:15 chris_n        I'm just wondering where my notice history went.. :(
20:15 jcamins        chris_n++ # for seeing the light
20:15 jcamins        Many places still use 3.4.x, or 3.2.x, and some even use 3.0.x, and a few unlucky people are using 2.2.9. :(
20:15 rangi          yay chris_n !
20:15 rangi          from 2003
20:15 * chris_n      has repented and now runs off packages :)
20:15 cait           but people want the new interface now
20:15 rangi          there are people using 2.2.9
20:15 cait           yeah, we are using 3.6.x too :)
20:15 * jcamins      uses 3.6.x still. A bugfix release comes out every month for 3.6.x and 3.8.x.
20:15 wizzyrea       libraries are strange places.
20:14 idreambooks    oh
20:14 jcamins        idreambooks: nah, people upgrade whenever they feel like it.
20:14 jcamins        chris_n runs off master.
20:14 idreambooks    rangi: thought people would upgrade when the latest relase is considered stable
20:14 idreambooks    wizzyrea: awesome :)
20:13 rangi          we cant control what/when people upgrade
20:13 rangi          well someone could install from master .. we release the software
20:13 wizzyrea       readometer we can get done sooner though :)
20:13 idreambooks    rangi: that was helpful. i guess the release date is something else. i thought once patch gets pushed to master the changes go live but because of deadlines like sep22 the time to live change be slightly different
20:12 * jcamins      was 18 hours into a day that started at 2am yesterday, so wasn't fully conscious.
20:11 jcamins        Oh. Well done.
20:11 rangi          http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2012/09/10/notes-for-my-talk-to-the-pasifika-koha-users-group/
20:11 rangi          also, i like this new one apropos of nothing
20:11 rangi          http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2012/08/14/how-does-a-patch-marked-enhancement-take-to-get-into-master/
20:11 rangi          http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2012/08/12/how-long-does-a-patch-take-to-make-it-into-master/
20:10 rangi          i actually showed idreambooks it yesterday
20:10 jcamins        It was a good post. :)
20:10 jcamins        rangi: do you have the link to your blog post handy?
20:10 jcamins        Also, it goes surprisingly fast.
20:10 idreambooks    hmm...ic
20:10 rangi          what he said :)
20:10 jcamins        idreambooks: not at all. The most important thing is a stable system, and to get that there has to be lots of testing.
20:10 rangi          stability wins over features every time
20:09 idreambooks    although the process seems pretty drawn out :|
20:09 jcamins        oleonard: I think you might have had your fingers in your ears when I suggested embedding the MARCXML.
20:09 idreambooks    great :)
20:09 oleonard       idreambooks: And luckily you have lots of eager testers
20:09 wizzyrea       ^^ might help you
20:08 wizzyrea       this would probably be easy to test
20:08 cait           it really depends
20:08 wahanui        patch workflow is at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Bug-enhancement-patch_Workflow
20:08 wizzyrea       patch workflow
20:08 cait           it sounds complicated, but can be fast, sometimes it's not
20:08 cait           then release manager gets to push it
20:08 wizzyrea       the readometer stuff can be done anytime and used by any library if you put the code to embed it on the wiki
20:08 cait           third step is qa team passes qa on it
20:08 cait           second step is someone else tests it ans signs off
20:08 cait           first step is sending the code
20:08 cait           and qa'd
20:07 jcamins        idreambooks: probably not, no. The patch has to be *included in the release* by September 22.
20:07 cait           it has to get tested
20:07 cait           hm not exctly
20:07 idreambooks    so 2 months...
20:07 idreambooks    nov 22 is release date right. so if the patch gets sent by sep 22 it should be in nov 22 release?
20:07 jcamins        cait: no, then we'd still have to load a different page.
20:06 oleonard       (because of the release schedule)
20:06 oleonard       idreambooks: Assuming you get a volunteer, all they need to do is get it done in less than six months ;)
20:06 cait           idreambooks: sorry, not sure - for me probably longer than for a lot of the others - and I am not sure how it works :)
20:05 oleonard       jcamins: How would you suggest going about it jcamins?
20:05 idreambooks    sounds like implementing the 'readometer' is relatively easy because of isbns. but implementing the rest of the features would take time. any idea how much time it would take one of yous?
20:04 cait           jcamins: hm couldn't we just pretty up the marc view a bit with ids maybe?
20:04 oleonard       jcamins: Was I singing to myself with my fingers in my ears?
20:04 jcamins        I'd like to embed the entire MARCXML.
20:04 jcamins        oleonard: I have said that repeatedly.
20:03 cait           I remember now heh
20:03 oleonard       We should just embed hidden machine-readable data in template and make our lives even easier
20:03 cait           because last time I got annoyed with getting isbns
20:03 cait           I put it there!
20:02 jcamins        oleonard: the contents of that tag are the ISBN.
20:02 oleonard       Oh, the span class="results_summary isbn"
20:02 oleonard       How does that work jcamins?
20:02 cait           maybe it got easier since last time I tried :)
20:01 cait           ah right
20:01 jcamins        $('.isbn').[extract ISBN] :P
19:59 oleonard       The normalized ISBN that we have in the template for getting cover images is the 10-digit one
19:59 cait           the problem with isbns is that they are repeatable
19:59 wizzyrea       but you're right, it would be easier to put it in searchfortitlein
19:58 wizzyrea       xml*
19:58 wizzyrea       or getting "stuff" out of marcsml
19:58 cait           that is a bt tricky...but would give you an easy isbn
19:58 idreambooks    jcamins: cool
19:58 cait           <span style="display:none" id="myisbnforthat">{ISBN}</span> in there...
19:58 wizzyrea       well jared has an example there of getting it out of the marcxml
19:57 cait           do something like
19:57 cait           or
19:57 wizzyrea       yea, I was thinking that
19:57 cait           wizzyrea: what you could do easier is put it in SearchforTitlein
19:57 wizzyrea       no fr the opac
19:57 jcamins        wizzyrea: for the staff client rather than the OPAC?
19:57 * wizzyrea     ponders how intranetuserjs is going to get the ISBN
19:57 jcamins        idreambooks: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/JQuery_Library#Add_a_link_to_map_the_publisher.27s_location <-- you wouldn't be able to use this code, as it's for something totally different, but this gives you an idea of what you can do without changing Koha at all, I think.
19:56 jcamins        Unfortunately my really cool jQuery, the one that maps the place of publication, is only in non-public catalogs.
19:55 wahanui        okay, oleonard.
19:55 oleonard       wahanui: demo is also http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Demo_Databases
19:55 wizzyrea       you can use any of those to do your testing :)
19:55 wizzyrea       demo is at http://koha-community.org/demo/
19:55 wahanui        wizzyrea: I forgot demo
19:55 wizzyrea       forget demo
19:54 wahanui        demo is running the same code... argh
19:54 wizzyrea       demo?
19:54 wizzyrea       demo is at http://koha-community.org/demo/
19:54 idreambooks    jcamins: know some jquery
19:54 wahanui        :)
19:54 cait           wahanui botsnack cookie
19:54 wahanui        rumour has it intranetuserjs is in the system preferences ;)
19:54 wizzyrea       intranetuserjs
19:54 jcamins        idreambooks: sure you can. There's a system preference to add arbitrary Javascript/jQuery to the Koha OPAC (and staff client).
19:54 cait           yep
19:54 wizzyrea       Koha is friendly to jquery
19:53 wizzyrea       re: the ISBN
19:53 wizzyrea       not the reviews, but the readometer I think we can - I didn't see your update to the bug
19:53 jcamins        With the plan that you'll contribute an idreambooks.com review tab to Koha for 3.12, since it's a bit too late for 3.10.
19:53 * wizzyrea     sighs
19:53 idreambooks    didn't think libraries can implement something like this without it being in koha (even if it is just the readometer based on isbn)
19:53 wizzyrea       SRSLY?
19:53 wahanui        hmmm... demo is running the same code... argh
19:53 wizzyrea       demo?
19:53 wizzyrea       demos?
19:53 wizzyrea       there are demo catalogs on our website
19:52 wahanui        rumour has it jquery library is found at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/JQuery_Library
19:52 wizzyrea       jquery library?
19:52 jcamins        idreambooks: if you're comfortable with Javascript/jQuery, you could certainly stick a sample jQuery script on the wiki.
19:52 wizzyrea       which would be cool
19:52 wizzyrea       and not have any changes to koha at all
19:51 wizzyrea       but yea, we may be able to enable libraries to at least get the readometer
19:51 rangi          My stop bbiab
19:51 rangi          I have major conference coming up
19:51 * wizzyrea     will try to get to it, if I can get this dang gamification preso written >.<
19:50 rangi          I'm not going to have time
19:50 wizzyrea       ^^
19:49 rangi          Some jQuery in sysprefs could add that to detail page I'm sure
19:49 * wizzyrea     makes no promises regarding your internal circadian rhythms
19:48 bag            one to stay home all day with the Ginny dragon too :)
19:48 * wizzyrea     writes a patch to the universe to slow down the orbit of the earth round the sun
19:48 rangi          By isbn
19:48 rangi          Now the html for the review box is fetchable
19:48 bag            I could use that too - or a patch to clone
19:48 * oleonard     would sign off
19:48 bag            please
19:48 cait           can we get more hours in a day? can someone patch it?
19:48 wizzyrea       because I think it would be a cool service for public libraries
19:48 cait           i waned to do so many things for this release *sigh*
19:47 wizzyrea       well I've been thinking about it :P
19:47 cait           wizzyrea has it all mapped out :)
19:47 wizzyrea       and a spot to optionally put the readometer on the detail
19:47 wizzyrea       basically it would just go on the tab in place of amazon reviews
19:47 wizzyrea       hm no, I don't think so
19:46 oleonard       wizzyrea: Do you picture something more modular than the previous Amazon system?
19:46 jcamins        idreambooks: oleonard doesn't necessarily mean that specifically at you. For features that haven't already been signed off, we're probably looking at pushing code that was already developed back to 3.12. There simply isn't enough time in a day.
19:46 wizzyrea       + giving those a home in the OPAC
19:45 wizzyrea       I suspect what needs to be done, is sysprefs added for an external review source
19:45 oleonard       Right
19:45 wizzyrea       you mean for 3.10
19:45 oleonard       Yeah, that's understandable. I'm sure your help will be useful when someone takes it on, but there's not enough time for a volunteer to put in enough hours I suspect
19:44 idreambooks    we need your help! :)
19:44 idreambooks    oleonard: we thought we could help with development but it seems like learning our way around koha alone would take up a lot of our time
19:43 oleonard       idreambooks I don't see what you can do in that time.
19:42 huginn         04Bug 8733: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Adding critic reviews to book pages
19:42 idreambooks    part of the reason we want koha to use our ratings is because it can drive pageviews for us. with sep22 fast coming up, what would you guys suggest we do to get the changes done in time (http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8733)
19:42 wizzyrea       hint hint nudge nudge
19:42 oleonard       wizzyrea, I wouldn't mind finding a Koha sugar-daddy to pay me to just hack on Koha all day
19:41 wizzyrea       hehe fair enough.
19:41 jcamins        wizzyrea: I understood that pull requests didn't work right on Github anyway.
19:40 * wizzyrea     suspects oleonard doesn't want to be found
19:40 idreambooks    ohh...didn't know you guys had such strong opinions on github :)
19:40 wizzyrea       lol
19:40 * oleonard     will never be found!
19:40 oleonard       Didn't you hear the news? Potential employers are sifting through github for candidates!
19:40 wizzyrea       but on github it's not an email to say, do a pull request.
19:39 wizzyrea       well yea
19:39 jcamins        wizzyrea: we have IRC!
19:39 wizzyrea       but you don't get the social stuff
19:39 jcamins        Plus, having your own repo gives you a lot more flexibility.
19:39 rangi          But it's not free software like gitorious or git or koha I find using it a bit hypocritical for me anyway
19:38 rangi          There are backups on github
19:37 idreambooks    ah ic
19:37 oleonard       I'm glad you like it khall. I've got a bunch of template tweaks to submit too. The jquery stuff I'll probably submit separately since there's a bunch of conflicting patches in the queue
19:37 wizzyrea       we host our own, and I suspect there are some ideological differences with github
19:37 idreambooks    'cos you are open source
19:36 idreambooks    how come you guys dont use github...itll be free for you
19:36 idreambooks    rangi, wizzyrea: so we need to implement the ratings before then to get into 3.10.0
19:35 khall          oleonard++ just checked out that screencast. That looks fantastic!
19:35 wizzyrea       yep, feature freeze
19:35 rangi          For feature freeze yes
19:35 wizzyrea       http://koha-community.org/koha-release-manager-newsletter-10-2012-08/
19:35 idreambooks    is sep 22 the deadline?
19:34 cait           have you seen the post on the website?
19:34 idreambooks    oleonard: wave back! still trying to figure out to do it on irc
19:34 cait           ah, we are getting close to our next big release
19:34 idreambooks    i am actually here pondering your release dates and deadlines
19:33 * oleonard     waves to idreambooks, who is usually in after he has left
19:33 idreambooks    thanks! :)
19:32 wizzyrea       wb :)
19:32 * wizzyrea     waves to idreambooks
19:31 oleonard       You caught me a bad time rangi, my fault
19:31 wizzyrea       and kf's
19:31 rangi          Sorry my joke fell flat oleonard
19:31 wizzyrea       I seeded it with some of my own
19:31 oleonard       I'm in.
19:31 rangi          Yay!
19:30 wizzyrea       >.> http://www.grouprecipes.com/group/koha/1890
19:29 oleonard       Hi rangi
19:29 huginn         bag: The current temperature in K6LCM-Westside/Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 24.3°C (12:26 PM PDT on September 11, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: 19.0°C. Pressure: 29.94 in 1014 hPa (Steady).
19:29 bag            @wunder 93109
19:29 rangi          Cold
19:28 bag            doh
19:28 bag            AHH rangi thanks that clears something up for me!!!
19:28 huginn         rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 7.0°C (7:00 AM NZST on September 12, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Windchill: 1.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Rising).
19:28 rangi          @wunder nzwn
19:27 rangi          Can't modify any table that uses sqlhelper
19:27 rangi          Can someone qa, master is busted until it's pushed
19:27 bag            hopefully soon
19:26 rangi          Nope
19:26 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8089 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Use Koha::Cache everywhere
19:26 rangi          Has bug 8089 been pushed yet?
19:23 bag            s/was/am ;)
19:23 bag            and I was targeting testing and signing off bugs about SIP on friday :)
19:22 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7736 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mark.gavillet, Needs Signoff , Edifact QUOTE and ORDER functionality
19:22 bag            nice hopefully I'm getting a .CEQ for additional edifact testing…  maybe the next few days bug 7736
19:07 oleonard       7067 is getting close to being ready, although the most recent issue is perplexing: How to deal with potential duplicates.
19:06 oleonard       Anyway, I probably won't submit the follow-up until some of these other patches make it through
19:02 libsysguy      i will put my patience pants on
19:02 cait           and it looks pretty!
19:02 cait           but then it came
19:02 libsysguy      oh
19:02 cait           I had blank parts
19:02 cait           it takes a while
19:02 libsysguy      hmm I couldn't get it
19:02 oleonard       32 secs
19:01 libsysguy      it is just blank for me
19:01 libsysguy      how long is that video
19:00 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7067 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Needs Signoff , allow patron self registration via the opac
19:00 oleonard       A proposed follow-up to Bug 7067: http://screencast.com/t/2bwrGMxVrXg
18:59 libsysguy      instead of me :p
18:59 libsysguy      oleonard, doesn't it make sense to include them all so you control the theming
18:56 * jcamins      checks his other patches currently in Passed QA.
18:55 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8597 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fcapovilla, Passed QA , New theme for the OPAC with a mobile view
18:54 jcamins        Actually, bug 8597 does not require rebasing.
18:52 jcamins        Oh well. I was thinking it'd be nice to reduce the number of javascript files we require.
18:52 cait           oleonard: well... know that you mention it...
18:51 jcamins        Oh.
18:51 oleonard       ...I'm pretty sure...
18:51 oleonard       Different thing jcamins
18:50 jcamins        Would that enable us to get rid of a custom highligher thing?
18:50 * oleonard     prepares a sharp stick for anyone who proposes using the "explode" effect
18:50 oleonard       All that's left is the effects, which we could probably mostly do without although I think "Highlight" would be nice to have.
18:49 oleonard       At this point all the widgets are spoken for. At least three of the 5 "interactions" will need to be added eventually (including sortable)
18:48 jcamins        oleonard: I don't feel we need to include everything. I'm just commenting that I use sortable.
18:47 oleonard       At this point the only reason not to include them all is that not all of them have Koha-specific styling.
18:47 oleonard       Alright, I give.
18:45 libsysguy      and will have to painstakingly rebase anyway
18:45 * jcamins      uses sortable.
18:45 libsysguy      since I'm using that
18:45 libsysguy      especially the dialog
18:45 oleonard       :P
18:44 * libsysguy    won't mind
18:44 libsysguy      oleonard you can push all the widgets if you want
18:43 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8597 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fcapovilla, Passed QA , New theme for the OPAC with a mobile view
18:43 jcamins        I guess I need to rebase bug 8597 again, probably.
18:43 cait           hey!
18:43 cait           lol
18:43 oleonard       Further proof Europeans love accordions
18:42 cait           or so
18:42 cait           hm wooot :)
18:42 cait           oleonard: wooo!
18:42 * jcamins      too is impatient.
18:42 * oleonard     will be submitting a patch that adds the Accordion widget http://jqueryui.com/demos/accordion/
18:42 * jcamins      has lots of patches which already passed QA that he'd like to see pushed.
18:41 * oleonard     is impatient
18:41 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8644 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Passed QA , jQueryUI CSS file should not contain customizations
18:41 * oleonard     would really like to see Bug 8644 pushed soon!
18:40 jcamins        rangi: heh. I was wondering what "contravene" had to do with anything.
18:13 wahanui        mtompset is trying to do a variety of projects in less than three months!
18:13 tcohen         mtompset
18:02 mtompset       Good night.
18:02 mtompset       I better sleep.
17:40 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8742 trivial, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Needs Signoff , Example uses perl 5.8 in Makefile.PL
17:40 mtompset       There, fixed. bug 8742
17:14 mtompset       shoot! I attached the wrong patch for another bug.
17:12 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8339 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Needs Signoff , div id="login" should be id="login_controls" in header.inc
17:12 mtompset       bug 8339 ready for failure. ;)
17:07 khall          sweet!
17:05 oleonard       I'm hacking on the interface for approving patron updates :)
17:05 khall          sup?
17:04 oleonard       Hi khall
16:59 mtompset       good to know.
16:58 jcamins        You can even fix your name and e-mail by amending your commits.
16:58 jcamins        Yes.
16:57 mtompset       Oh shoot... if I forgot to set the git global variables for things... can I set them before a git commit and still have my patch come out okay?
16:55 jcamins        That's what IntranetUserCSS is for.
16:55 jcamins        mtompset: if you want to override the CSS you can.
16:54 mtompset       And actually... if I want to do something like tweak the main page to have 10px borders... text-align:right; margin-right: 10px; looks better. ;)
16:54 JesseM         does koha keep track of "printed notices" in notice history for a patron? or does it have to be emailed?
16:49 jcamins        Just throwing it out there as a possibility.
16:49 * jcamins      doesn't know.
16:49 jcamins        mtompset: because the goal is to have logical markup, and notionally we want the #login div on the right, not taking up the entire top bar?
16:49 mtompset       True.
16:48 oleonard       If we were trying to do that it would be failing spectacularly!
16:47 mtompset       Are we trying to keep it in that position if we scroll down or something?
16:47 mtompset       so why not text-align: right; margin-right: 0.5em?
16:45 oleonard       http://www.w3schools.com/cssref/pr_class_position.asp
16:44 mtompset       Absolute against what?
16:44 mtompset       dumb question... why would someone choose position: absolute?
16:43 * jcamins      looks forward to oleonard saying "no, ?!"
16:43 cait           I should have waited what you come up next with :)
16:42 wizzyrea       :)
16:42 cait           heh
16:42 jcamins        oleonard: !?
16:42 mtompset       not even patron1 = password1, patron2=password2?
16:42 mtompset       Anyways... Firebug seems to have forced the CSS to reload.
16:41 * oleonard     goes ahead and just sets the password for all his test db patrons to the same damn thing
16:41 mtompset       shift reload didn't work?
16:40 wizzyrea       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNkp4QF3we8
16:40 wizzyrea       like this
16:40 wizzyrea       just because
16:40 cait           why so many caits?
16:40 wizzyrea       yep, or shift + the reload button
16:40 mtompset       shift-f5?
16:40 cait           wizzyrea: huh? hi back :)
16:39 wizzyrea       \o/
16:38 mtompset       Cool... I replicated stale CSS.
16:37 wizzyrea       :)
16:37 wizzyrea       … hi
16:36 wizzyrea       cait cait cait cait cait cait
16:36 wizzyrea       that might be a reason to
16:36 jcamins        I do when switching between 3.6.x and Master.
16:35 wizzyrea       jcamins is super extra thorough, I've never actually had to go to those lengths :)
16:35 wizzyrea       always shift-refresh
16:35 wizzyrea       if I'm working on look/feel of things, I don't ever use regular refresh.
16:34 mtompset       Okay... well, since I'm running off a fresh git. Might as well use it. :)
16:34 wizzyrea       shift-reload is super handy.
16:33 wizzyrea       is ok :)
16:33 mtompset       ARG!
16:33 wizzyrea       exactamundo
16:33 mtompset       stale CSS.
16:33 mtompset       right, hence stale cache.
16:33 wizzyrea       it's so the web goes "faster"
16:33 wizzyrea       the css will come from the cache
16:32 wizzyrea       like, you can get new html, but the images will come from the cache
16:32 mtompset       well that would include js, css, etc. etc.
16:32 wizzyrea       "page assets"
16:32 mtompset       Okay, I learned something new.
16:32 oleonard       mtompset: Simply clicking the reload button will fetch a fresh copy of the page (markup) if there is one, but it won't force a reload of page assets
16:32 * jcamins      does Shift-refresh, Ctrl-refresh, and Alt-refresh in that order.
16:31 wizzyrea       you can also hold shift (or ctrl) and click that button to do the same thing
16:31 wizzyrea       no
16:31 wizzyrea       well that
16:31 mtompset       But isn't that what clicking the reload button should do?
16:31 jcamins        wizzyrea: except CSS in Chrome, which requires a ctrl-f5 on a Mac.
16:31 wizzyrea       and you get all new shiny fresh copies
16:31 wizzyrea       anything that's in the cache is ignored.
16:30 oleonard       It does a reload and forces the browser not to pull from its cache
16:30 wizzyrea       scripts
16:30 wizzyrea       the page, it's CSS
16:30 wizzyrea       it re-fetches everything
16:30 mtompset       Doesn't that do a reload?
16:30 wizzyrea       shift-f5 ftw
16:29 oleonard       cached by the browser
16:29 mtompset       stale?
16:29 jcamins        It could also have been stale CSS.
16:28 mtompset       Okay, your suggestion will work.
16:27 mtompset       between 14 and 15 they must have fixed it.
16:27 mtompset       curses to firefox!
16:26 mtompset       logging in.
16:26 mtompset       That's not the problem.
16:26 mtompset       Main log in screen... not inheriting from that definition, because of login.css\
16:26 mtompset       I'm up.
16:26 mtompset       Anyways...
16:25 mtompset       Yes, but .clearfix isn't defined until later in the CSS file.
16:25 oleonard       There's only one on that page.
16:25 oleonard       mtompset: You don't have to say ".clearfix #login" because there's no possibility of confusing which element is meant by "#login"
16:24 oleonard       ...but the bug is right, we shouldn't reuse the ID if possible.
16:24 mtompset       Like I said ".clearfix #login"
16:24 oleonard       mtompset: You could also solve this problem by giving your login form CSS more specificity: #main_auth #login { ... }
16:23 mtompset       Which is why I'm confused.
16:22 oleonard       Yes
16:21 wizzyrea       oleonard: did it work for you?
16:21 jcamins        oleonard: thanks! Usually "cm" appears at the end of a sentence when I'm cataloging, so I wasn't sure.
16:20 mtompset       But it didn't work before.
16:20 mtompset       Working on networking.
16:20 mtompset       I will.
16:20 oleonard       mtompset: Please try my suggestion
16:20 oleonard       FWIW jcamins : http://stylemanual.ngs.org/home/C/centimeter-cm
16:18 jcamins        (cm = centimeters, not computer modern, for those people who are eythian:)
16:18 jcamins        cm does not require a period, right? Even though it should?
16:17 mtompset       I'd like to rescue it from failed_qa hell.
16:17 jcamins        Got it.
16:17 jcamins        Ah.
16:17 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8339 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Failed QA , div id="login" should be id="login_controls" in header.inc
16:17 oleonard       Bug 8339
16:17 jcamins        What was the problem we were trying to solve?
16:16 oleonard       Yeah, change <div id="login"> to <div id="login_controls"> Then change the CSS from #login to #login_controls. You're done.
16:16 mtompset       Let me get my networking issues dealt with, and I'll look at it again.
16:15 * wizzyrea     gets out the popcorn
16:15 mtompset       I just did a fresh git install.
16:14 mtompset       Well, not right now, but yes, that is what I looked at.
16:14 oleonard       And you're looking at <div id="login"> where it shows the branch, your username, etc?
16:14 mtompset       after I have logged in.
16:14 oleonard       Are you looking at the login page? Or a page in the staff client after you have logged in?
16:13 jcamins        mtompset: custom CSS?
16:13 mtompset       Why doesn't it in mine?!
16:13 mtompset       Should I attached failed tests too and include all the steps?
16:13 oleonard       Firebug says #login {  position: absolute;  right: 0.5em; }
16:12 wahanui        jcamins: I forgot browser
16:12 jcamins        forget browser
16:12 oleonard       Yes
16:12 mtompset       But firebug doesn't show absolute.
16:12 mtompset       The definition says absolute, right?
16:11 oleonard       ?
16:11 mtompset       That's the confusing part, I think... position is not absolute.
16:11 wahanui        rumour has it firefox is koha's preferred browser
16:11 oleonard       Firefox.
16:11 wahanui        it has been said that browser is UNIMARC-only.
16:11 mtompset       what browser?
16:10 oleonard       If I take out the #login declaration, the layout breaks.
16:10 mtompset       Feel free to check.
16:10 oleonard       Sorry, I think you're wrong.
16:09 mtompset       But the reason it works is because it is getting it from yui.
16:09 mtompset       I know...
16:09 mtompset       They would be used if it said ".clearfix #login".
16:09 oleonard       #login in staff-global.css? That is used on every page in the staff client.
16:09 mtompset       The lines of code that exist now for #login are not used.
16:08 mtompset       I was using Firebug in Firefox.
16:08 mtompset       And changing the name causes the inherited values to not be inherited any more.
16:08 mtompset       you need to have ".clearfix #login" for it to be used.
16:07 mtompset       Because the ID in the CSS isn't used.
16:07 oleonard       I still don't understand why you don't change the ID of the element and then change the ID in the CSS
16:07 oleonard       Uh, no, sorry :|
16:06 mtompset       oleonard: regarding the failed qa. Did my replying comments make sense?
16:06 cait           ih
16:06 bag            heh muddy pigs
16:05 jcamins        cait: reality. That's what MARC+RDA is. A muddy pig in a bonnet. :)
16:05 mtompset       that's the reality of RDA. :)
16:04 cait           jcamins: ?
16:04 mtompset       take care, cait.
16:04 jcamins        cait: muddy pigs in bonnets.
16:04 cait           bbl
16:04 * cait         should go and shop for real food
16:04 cait           reality?
16:04 mtompset       Yes, yes that is scary.
16:04 cait           jcamins: i still want to work on the frameworks :( but so many things to be sorted out first *frustrated*
16:04 oleonard       I think it was the pig.
16:03 * mtompset     smirks, "You scared him off with reality, jcamins."
15:58 jcamins        ala_3vo: is there something specific you're running into problems with?
15:53 jcamins        The frameworks being out of date is an issue, but that was an issue well before RDA was adopted.
15:53 jcamins        MARC is MARC, so there is no need for change on the backend.
15:52 jcamins        Fields that are missing will be added- when they're missed.
15:52 jcamins        ala_3vo: I don't see how it will make any difference, no.
15:51 ala_3vo        well, this will certainly affect the copy cataloging as it is slowly being converted from AACR2 to RDA
15:51 oleonard       http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YV37KJUqpNI/Tz5zayGP1YI/AAAAAAAAAvY/wGV5RP1i-0w/s1600/Pigheaded_ladydetail1.jpg
15:51 jcamins        Very evocative.
15:51 jcamins        Ooh, I like that.
15:51 jcamins        But RDA is just a different bonnet worn by the same muddy pig.
15:49 jcamins        As libraries find they want RDA-specific fields to show up, they'll no doubt be added.
15:48 jcamins        ala_3vo: not much, really.
15:47 ala_3vo        I wondering if anyone had heard about this RDA and how it will affect the MARC records.
15:46 ala_3vo        Hello #koha
15:20 reiveune       bye
15:16 kf             leaving too :) bye all1
15:13 kf             pm
15:12 drojf          why?
15:12 drojf          kf: leaving now
15:11 kf             drojf: still around?
15:04 * mtompset     laughs, "I know people like that."
15:04 Shane-S        my own ....lol
15:04 mtompset       Depends on whose handwriting. :)
15:03 Shane-S        never been a fan of cursive can't read it :p
15:03 wizzyrea       srs that made me laugh.
15:03 wizzyrea       lol
14:57 mtompset       scheme.
14:57 mtompset       Are you sure it isn't because cursive writing is a hidden language sceme to the younger generation? ;)
14:56 Shane-S        I think it is because I never need a power button, and unlock swipe or button, and the sun's glare is never a problem
14:55 Shane-S        I am an It director with an andriod, ipad, Macbook Pro, MacBook Air, and a Desktop that is comparable to a server...yet I still go everywhere with a notepad and pen/pencil :)
14:54 mtompset       people still use those?
14:54 wizzyrea       brb sharpening pencil
14:54 wizzyrea       heh
14:53 mtompset       One last section before I can start the AXE process.
14:53 mtompset       ARG! Now I have to ponder networking issues instructions?!
14:53 wizzyrea       not just games in the catalog, but other games you can do in the library
14:52 wizzyrea       this talk is a little more generalized than that
14:52 wizzyrea       hehe no
14:52 kf             yeah, and you didn>'t forget you did :)
14:52 wizzyrea       ^.^
14:52 wizzyrea       kf: I wrote quite a bit of that. Lol.
14:51 kf             wizzyrea: I guess you already checked the wiki page?
14:51 mtompset       Sounds intriguing?
14:51 wizzyrea       LOL
14:51 * oleonard     can't believe he missed his chance to take Introduction to Computational Finance and Financial Econometrics!
14:51 wizzyrea       among other things
14:51 wizzyrea       a
14:51 wizzyrea       I'm doing research.
14:50 wizzyrea       I have to give a talk on gamification in libraries later this week.
14:50 mtompset       Greetings, bag.
14:50 wizzyrea       mornin.
14:50 bag            good morning
14:50 wizzyrea       hello :)
14:50 wizzyrea       www.coursera.org
14:50 mtompset       By the way, greetings, wizzyrea. :)
14:50 kf             is it any good? :)
14:49 kf             I have read about this - funny :)
14:49 wizzyrea       yep :)
14:49 mtompset       course link? ;)
14:49 kf             or something that sounds similar?
14:49 kf             coursera?
14:49 kf             ah
14:49 wizzyrea       it's part of the lecture
14:49 wizzyrea       no link, i'm taking a gamification course ;)
14:49 wizzyrea       4500 participants reviewed over 500k dialog boxes, with 6700 bugs reported
14:49 wahanui        link is right, but the website is gone, apparently
14:49 mtompset       link?
14:48 wizzyrea       and the offices compete.
14:48 wizzyrea       localisations :P
14:48 wizzyrea       that helps with improving the quality of the localizations
14:48 wizzyrea       MS has a game that they use between their global offices
14:47 wizzyrea       apparently, for windows
14:47 kf             hm?
14:47 wizzyrea       ooh, language quality game for koha
13:51 mtompset       I'd like to axe it.
13:50 mtompset       Can someone confirm that the appendix does no such thing?
13:50 mtompset       Earlier in the instructions it says: "See Appendix C for instructions and notes on installing Koha to a second machine that is pointing to the same database as a current machine with Koha installed."
13:49 mtompset       http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu#Appendix_C
13:49 mtompset       Okay... speaking of instructions... I'm doing some serious editing. And I can't make sense of Appendix C.
13:46 mtompset       Which leads to the problem of people following the Fedora instructions for an Ubuntu Install (for example). ;)
13:45 mtompset       tarball instructions for debian-based OS' make no sense in general. tarball instructions for RPM-based ones, however, make complete sense.
13:44 mtompset       Sometime people think more highly of themselves than they should.
13:44 mtompset       I'm not sure putting an INSTALL.OS.advanced is a good idea.
13:43 Barrc          the install files in the tarball -:)
13:42 wizzyrea       and install.*.advanced should tell you how to do it from the tarball
13:41 wizzyrea       no, tarball instructions should never be removed completely - but the install.* files should tell us how to do packages
13:40 Barrc          I do to - I like the part about having to look for them. I wouldn't like them to be removed completely though!
13:40 wizzyrea       because I think most people should be using packages.
13:40 wizzyrea       not looking for how to use the packages.
13:40 wizzyrea       and if you want to do a tarball install, you should have to go looking for *that*
13:39 mtompset       Yes, both ends of the spectrum exist.
13:39 wizzyrea       packages are better for I'd say 80% of "average" users
13:39 Barrc          Yep, I agree ye......
13:39 wizzyrea
13:39 wizzyrea       d
13:39 wizzyrea       an
13:39 wizzyrea       so there are both ends of that spectrum
13:38 wizzyrea       also I know of lots of librarians, non tech, who just want to try something out, and don't want to screw around with why the FFFF zebra doesn't work
13:38 mtompset       Giving a tarball to a novice is like handing a loaded gun to a baby.
13:38 mtompset       I know, but that proves people are in a rush to accomplish what they want, and how they figure it will work.
13:37 Barrc          Ha - I would still be reading some of them if I didn't!
13:37 wizzyrea       ^^
13:37 mtompset       Have you ever clicked Next without reading the End User License Agreement?
13:37 Barrc          That is mostly true!
13:36 mtompset       People don't read disclaimers.
13:36 Barrc          I am all for packages.......I would just suggest maybe adding a disclaimer to the tarball install docs instead of hiding them!
13:36 mtompset       I totally understand where you are coming from. I like it myself. However, given my limited work time frame. Packages are really my only option on a forward basis.
13:35 mtompset       ^but^by^
13:35 mtompset       Also, but using packages... you save disk space by not having to compile it yourself.
13:35 Barrc          Just my 2 cents is all .....
13:34 mtompset       That may be true, but the problem is... forgive the vulgarity of the meme, but sometimes people are: http://weknowmemes.com/2012/07/askhole/
13:34 Barrc          I know a fair few library users (mid range tech abilities) that got Koha down (tarball) and played with it before coming near us. They seemed to really like the idea of it being available - packages install might not be a transparent
13:33 Barrc          non sys admins (in the library world) tend to like the idea of seeing what is going on - especially if they have (or are about to) switched from a 'closed-source' solution.
13:31 Barrc          However.....
13:31 Barrc          Yep - agreed.
13:31 mtompset       support is easier with packages.
13:31 mtompset       Yes, but the question is: what is our role? education or support?
13:30 Barrc          more so than install from packages does
13:30 Barrc          mtompset: personally, I wouldn't be too quick to hide the tarball instructions. Granted, they may generate more questions, but at the very least it gives a good overall view of how Koha hangs together
13:30 mtompset       Which means the tarball instructions may get hidden into the repo, but not be put out in a Wiki or INSTALL.OS format.
13:29 mtompset       And then Wiki generated from git repo source.
13:28 mtompset       and then Documentation generated from Wiki into git repo.
13:28 mtompset       Because the goal is Wiki --> INSTALL.OS file
13:27 mtompset       But that hasn't been confirmed or denied yet.
13:27 mtompset       I hope to hide the tarball instructions on the Wiki at least.
13:26 mtompset       Anything resembling a tarball install will be hidden far away from users.
13:26 jcamins        tcohen: why? Packages are much easier to support.
13:26 mtompset       Sorry, tcohen. mtj and I had a chat yesterday.
13:26 * mtompset     chuckles.
13:25 tcohen         i'd like to vote for the removal of the discouraged flag for tarball install in the docs
13:25 jcamins        Probably, but why would you have a git checkout?
13:24 mtompset       Wouldn't a "git checkout v3.08.05" be faster than grabbing the tarball if you already have 3.08.04 checked out?
13:23 jcamins        Or, much better, use packages.
13:23 jcamins        I'd say if you're doing a standard install you might as well just download the tarball, though.
13:22 mtompset       Hmm....
13:22 jcamins        Otherwise, no.
13:22 jcamins        If they want a dev install, yes.
13:22 jcamins        It's up to them.
13:22 mtompset       Is the assumption they will answer "dev" to "perl Makefile.PL"?
13:21 mtompset       So, let's say someone does the "git checkout v3.08.04"
13:20 magnuse        "Topic branches are typically lightweight branches that you create locally and that have a name that is meaningful for you. They are where you might do work for a bug fix or feature (they're also called feature branches) that is expected to take some time to complete." http://stackoverflow.com/questions/284514/what-is-a-git-topic-branch
13:20 * mtompset     nods, "Yep."
13:19 jcamins        Also, with a local master you greatly increase the chance of accidentally committing to it.
13:19 jcamins        magnuse: if you don't ever end up with out-of-date branches while using a local master, then there's no reason to delete it.
13:18 magnuse        uh huh, if you say so... ;-)
13:18 mtompset       what's a topic branch?
13:18 jcamins        magnuse: because if you leave the master branch, you greatly increase the chance of ending up with an out-of-date topic branch.
13:17 oleonard       To stick it to the man
13:16 magnuse        huh, why delete master?
13:16 mtompset       So, do a "standard" install using a git repo?
13:15 jcamins        If you're not doing development, you can safely leave the master branch.
13:15 mtompset       git branch -D master
13:15 mtompset       so: git checkout v3.08.04
13:14 jcamins        git checkout v3.08.04
13:14 jcamins        No, if you're checking out a version, just use the tag.
13:14 mtompset       git branch -D master
13:14 mtompset       so: git checkout -b my_3.8.4 origin/3.8.4
13:13 jcamins        I wouldn't check out a plain 3.8.x branch either.
13:13 jcamins        That works too.
13:13 mtompset       git branch -D master
13:13 mtompset       so: git checkout -b my_3.8.x origin/3.8.x
13:12 jcamins        git checkout -b bug_whatever origin/3.8.x
13:12 mtompset       okay... jcamins, you don't have a master branch... what commands would you use to force a branch to track 3.8.x?
13:09 magnuse        guess we already have the beginnings of that in the "system information" tab under "about Koha"
13:08 magnuse        and checking that the sysprefs "make sense" is probably a good idea
13:08 magnuse        sure
13:05 mtompset       But then they need to be documented well, so people remember why they were added and what they are for :)
13:03 magnuse        cool
13:02 * jcamins      doesn't have any objection to syspref proliferation.
13:00 magnuse        yup, that's why sysprefs are necessary, even if they sometimes appear as necessary evils...
13:00 jcamins        If we don't syspref things we will.
13:00 magnuse        yeah, we can't do that
12:59 jcamins        magnuse: forcing a change on everyone?
12:59 magnuse        rangi++ (but can't really see alternatives to sysprefs in a lot of situations)
12:46 tcohen         rangi++
12:46 mtompset       Greetings, tcohen.
12:45 mtompset       rangi++ # loved the syspref meme.
12:45 mtompset       Oh that is awesome.
12:44 tcohen         moooorning #koha
12:44 magnuse        tee hee
12:43 druthb         lulz
12:42 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8236 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha, Failed QA , Prevent renewing if overdue or restriction
12:42 oleonard       His comment on Bug 8236
12:40 magnuse        rangi's meme?
12:40 druthb         rangi's meme?
12:37 kf             and I agree with jcamins about rangi's meme :)
12:37 * kf           is pro-syspref too
12:36 * jcamins      is pro-syspref.
12:35 oleonard       I considered suggesting a solution that involved the circ and fine rules matrix, but not only did that not seem to fit well but changes to that never seem to happen [well]
12:33 oleonard       Just wanted to make sure
12:33 jcamins        oleonard: I'm pretty sure rangi's meme was intended in agreement.
12:26 * druthb       waves to the not-Paul, too.
12:26 magnuse        :-)
12:26 * mtompset     laughs, "Good one, magnuse."
12:26 * magnuse      does not really wave to paul_p
12:26 julian_m       hello mtompset
12:25 * paul_p       not really here, at a training day
12:25 mtompset       Greetings, julian_m. :)
12:25 mtompset       Greetings, oleonard and paul_p
12:24 kf             hi oleonard and paul_p
12:23 oleonard       Hi #koha
12:22 eythian        it also makes migrating data to a shared testing environment that little bit easier.
12:22 eythian        I tend to use the name of the organisation
12:22 mtompset       I'm almost finished pass 1 of cleaning up the ubuntu documentation.
12:21 jcamins        mtompset: yes.
12:20 mtompset       Does the documentation mention that the create-db relates to the URL that is being expected?
12:20 kf             hi jcamins
12:17 * mtompset     nods, "We use 'library'."
12:12 jcamins        3) if you show up and say "my predecessor set up a Koha installation using packages, but I accidentally deleted /etc/koha/*" right now we can probably tell you with some certainty where the data is. With a different naming scheme, we'd have to give several places to check (a problem because most people using Koha for the first time probably don't know how to use MySQL).
12:12 Barrc          OK - makes sense. I haven't installed any multi database sites, all our Koha sites are on individual VMs running one sole website - good to know though!
12:11 jcamins        2) as I said, clobbering data is bad, and predictability is good.
12:11 jcamins        (in my experience)
12:11 jcamins        That said, most places use "library"
12:11 jcamins        Much better to use the name of your institution.
12:11 jcamins        I wouldn't think so.
12:11 jcamins        So if you want the DNS to be archives.whatever.com, and you also have a program for storing your archives database that you set up first, you now have a problem.
12:09 Barrc          single
12:08 Barrc          Not that any of this really matters - I am just curious is all!
12:08 Barrc          Do most signal site (instance) Koha's not use koha as their db name?
12:08 Oak            makes sence...
12:07 jcamins        Also, instance names appear in the DNS generally.
12:07 jcamins        1) you know what the database is for. Most libraries do not use "koha" as an instance name.
12:07 Barrc          The preface would be redundant too, wouldn't it, if it was the same each instance!
12:07 jcamins        Barrc: several reasons, just off the top of my head:
12:06 Barrc          jcamins: But it does create an empty db called koha_koha. There is no bother changing it, I was just curious why the name is prefaced!
12:05 Oak            there must some good reason for this i'm sure. let me google that.
12:05 jcamins        I can't see any benefit to not using a prefix, and lots of potential disadvantages.
12:05 Oak            Barrc, if you ever get to use cPanel or Site5 hosting accounts, their scripts also add a db prefix whenever you create a new database.
12:05 jcamins_away   koha-create is intended to create a Koha instance, not a database.
12:04 Barrc          But on the downside - it doesn't name your database as specified! Could we check for "clobber" before creation!?
12:03 jcamins_away   :)
12:03 jcamins_away   That would be bad.
12:03 jcamins_away   So that the packages don't clobber your existing data.
12:03 Barrc          Right - I though I was doing something silly! Just out of curiosity, why is it so?
12:02 jcamins_away   Barrc: Oak is correct. That is by design.
12:01 Oak            i think 'koha-' is the db prefix the script adds
12:00 Barrc          Is it just me that manages to create a site/database of "koha_koha" when using "koha-create --create-db koha" ?? Shouldn't it created as just "koha" !?
11:55 eythian        I'd say nano would be fine, and it has little onscreen help to drive it.
11:54 eythian        yeah
11:41 mtompset       gedit makes no sense ifthe instructions say we recommend a server edition of ubuntu.
11:41 mtompset       I'm just trying to put something reasonable for those who aren't familiar with any editors by default and would not likely remove nano.
11:40 mtompset       Well, the instructions do say to swap 'nano' for your favorite editor at the top.
11:38 eythian        Typically it's the first thing I remove.
11:38 eythian        whereas I'm pretty sure nano is by default, on debian at least.
11:37 eythian        My only concern with gedit is that it shouldn't be installed on a server
11:37 mtompset       nano?
11:36 mtompset       I personally like vi. The instructions currently say gedit. What is a good text-only editor that would likely be installed by default on Ubuntu and Debian that doesn't have a major learning curve?
11:21 eythian        packages tend to lag a bit behind the implementation of things like that, unless the person putting them in Koha adds package support themselves. Otherwise it's up to someone else to need it enough to implement it.
11:20 eythian        the background indexing thing is still fairly new
11:04 mtompset       The packages use cron by default.
11:04 mtompset       Is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Background_indexing_with_Zebra not recommended?
10:56 mtompset       Good. make test passed.
10:33 mtompset       Installed libdbd-mock-perl and re-runnning.
10:30 pastebot       "mtompset" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Failed Tests After being forced to install libcache-memcached-fast-perl" (27 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/168
10:22 mtompset       It caught the error, but it caused a fail.
10:22 mtompset       -- or not. :(
10:19 eythian        that seems quite plausible
10:19 eythian        yeah
10:19 eythian        mtompset: oh, good to know
10:19 mtompset       So, perhaps the the test that blew up on missing cache-memcached-fast needs a tweak.
10:19 mtompset       Actually, eythian, Member_Attributes test cleanly fails on DBD::Mock not installed.
10:18 drojf          last summer day. better go to spend it in the office :/
10:17 huginn         drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 25.6°C (12:12 PM CEST on September 11, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 42%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
10:17 drojf          @wunder berlin, germany
10:14 kf             but not much better
10:14 kf             abstract today
10:14 kf             meh.
10:14 wahanui        kf should be writing slides
10:14 drojf          slides?
10:14 drojf          hi kf :)
10:14 kf             hi drojf :)
10:14 mtompset       not so good.
10:12 drojf          http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=acutally
10:12 * mtompset     laughs.
10:12 wahanui        well, acutally is a new word I just invented.
10:12 mtompset       acutally?
10:10 eythian        acutally is a new word I just invented.
10:10 eythian        acutally, in that case, probably yes
10:09 mtompset       Would a ,L be useful?
10:03 eythian        maybe try putting the full http://... bit in
10:03 eythian        curious
10:02 vfernandes     eythian with that rule redirect to cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/
09:58 * mtompset     likes eythian's perspective. :)
09:58 eythian        it's what he gets for being away
09:58 eythian        seems fair
09:58 mtompset       I'll just blame jcamins_away. ;)
09:57 eythian        (we certainly should)
09:57 eythian        I'm not sure if we have a policy for that
09:57 eythian        could be
09:57 eythian        ah, but it breaks just the tests.
09:57 mtompset       Perhaps a test needs to be moved?
09:57 mtompset       I do believe it is optional.
09:57 mtompset       cache-memcached-fast
09:56 eythian        mtompset: if the component isn't really optional, you're better making a patch that changes its status
09:54 * mtompset     grumbles and just installs the missing component pondering what to write about this kind of case in the documentation.
09:53 * mtompset     tries a git pull to see if there is anything out there.
09:52 * mtompset     grumbles about an "optional" component causing "make test" to fail horribly in a git clone.
09:49 eythian        Keep in mind it's also possible to log rewrite operations
09:49 eythian        what URL does it try when you get the page not found?
09:47 eythian        is what I would expect to work
09:47 eythian        RewriteRule ^/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main\.pl$ / [R]
09:47 vfernandes     page not found
09:45 eythian        what happens when you try?
09:43 vfernandes     I've already saw that page but i can't make it work in the Koha :/
09:42 eythian        http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/rewrite/remapping.html <-- this should help
09:41 eythian        so if it matches exactly .../opac-main.pl, it redirects them away.
09:41 eythian        in that case, probably a rewrite rule is what you want
09:40 eythian        ah, I see
09:40 eythian        vfernandes: how do they log in if you remove the main page, or do you direct them to the login page from somewhere else?
09:39 eythian        I like that every time I see it
09:39 eythian        libhtml-template-pro-perl
09:39 eythian        --\ Packages being removed because they are no longer used (3)
09:39 vfernandes     http://catalogo.ubi.pt
09:39 vfernandes     the objective is to "remove" the OPAC main page... the users can login but when he log outs its redirect to the OPAC main page
09:38 eythian        which would be generally useful for people who'd like to send the browser back to a portal or somethibng
09:37 eythian        The best way (arguably) would be to create a syspref that is "URL to redirect to after logout"
09:37 eythian        that's harder then
09:37 mtompset       So you allow users to log in?
09:37 eythian        OK.
09:36 vfernandes     *I think
09:36 vfernandes     so If thing the opac-main.pl needs to run
09:36 vfernandes     ok but the user needs to be logout
09:36 eythian        Just a redirect
09:36 eythian        because if not, that should be simple enough to not need a rewrite.
09:35 eythian        vfernandes: do you need it to run opac-main.pl first?
09:35 vfernandes     what I need is simple... a need to redirect opac-main.pl?logout=1 to opac-search.pl
09:30 mtompset       vfernandes, if you are asking because of a reverse proxy, you need to pass the Fully Qualified Domain Name, not a shortened version.
09:28 wahanui        "What are you trying to do?"  "What is the goal?" or "What problem are you experiencing?"
09:28 slef           first question
09:28 slef           vfernandes: yes, far too much.
09:28 vfernandes     anyone here has experience in URL rewrite in apache?
09:27 vfernandes     hi guys
09:24 eythian        http://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/Worlds-Longest-Beard/20219413/?nt=1
09:14 eythian        Well, I'm in a library.
09:13 slef           eythian: I think having a library park at the end of my drive was a better unexpected interruption
09:13 eythian        it would seem to be appropriate
09:13 slef           eythian: can I describe it as a link to the Whole Sort of General Mish Mash?
09:13 eythian        no, false alarm, it's back again.
09:13 eythian        oh it stopped
09:12 eythian        I suppose I should ignore it too
09:12 eythian        oh, there's an alarm going here that everyone is ignoring.
09:12 eythian        but it's holistic
09:12 slef           eythian: which doesn't really add much...
09:12 slef           eythian: the rest of the definition I've got is "a conceptual entity-relationship model developed by the International Federation of Library Associations and Institutions (IFLA) that relates user tasks of retrieval and access in online library catalogues and bibliographic databases from a user’s perspective. It represents a more holistic approach"
09:11 eythian        least helpful acronym expansion ever
09:11 wahanui        OK, slef.
09:11 slef           wahanui: FRBR is Functional Requirements for Bibliographic Records
09:10 wahanui        standards are what you use to hold up a fence.
09:10 mtompset       standards?
09:10 mtompset       maze?
09:10 wahanui        slef: i don't know
09:10 slef           wahanui: you are not much good at this, are you?
09:09 wahanui        no idea, slef
09:09 slef           wahanui: FRBR?
09:09 slef           Resource Description and Access
09:09 wahanui        RDA is probably a room in a twisty maze of standards
09:09 slef           wahanui: RDA?
09:09 drojf          the loc website does not load for me. my internet seems to be unhappy for some reason
09:07 slef           kf: mtompset: links to http://www.loc.gov/marc/changes-rda-338.html which looks authoritative
09:06 kf             slef: hm not totally sure, but maybe something about the new way to catalog media types and such? :(
09:06 * slef         does the login shuffle to expand GMD on first use on the wiki page
09:05 mtompset       http://cataids.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/how-rda-will-affect-gmd/
09:05 mtompset       Perhaps Generic Media Descriptor?
09:05 drojf          ah makes sense. all these sports people that and fans that needed their own DSL while in the UK :D
09:05 slef           kf: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/RDA#From_David_Schuster
09:04 slef           drojf: while running TV ads telling us how BT was bringing the nation together to follow the olympics.
09:04 kf             slef: where did you meet GMDs? because I ran into some of those during a migration recently...
09:04 slef           drojf: British Telecon (who have a monopoly on the last mile in most places) blamed the Olympics and Paralympics.
09:04 slef           mtompset: it's related to RDA, so you may be closer than the "real" answer.
09:03 drojf          slef: "real" internet, congratulations. that took a while
09:03 mtompset       Gifts of Mass Destruction. :)
09:03 mtompset       Yes, that was a totally random guess.
09:03 mtompset       Genetically Modified Devils?
09:02 mtompset       I should change that to two. :)
09:02 slef           what are GMDs?
09:02 wahanui        mtompset is trying to do a variety of projects in less than three months!
09:02 drojf          hey mtompset
09:02 slef           mtompset: I get DSL back today
09:02 mtompset       Greetings, drojf.
09:02 mtompset       Hate when the internet connectivity is sucky.
09:00 drojf          internet sucky, brb
08:56 drojf          hey rangi
08:56 rangi          hi drojf
08:55 drojf          good day #koha
08:51 mtompset       That's what I thought. :(
08:39 rangi          so if you only wanted the recent history, you could do that, i wouldnt tell people to do that though unless they knew their way around git very well
08:38 rangi          but you cant push from it, or clone from it
08:38 rangi          but you could use --depth to get a shallower history ...
08:37 rangi          if you want to use it for dev .. which is really all you would want to do with the git repo .. then you need it all
08:37 rangi          depends what you want to do with it
08:34 mtompset       git clone git://git.koha-community.org/koha.git kohaclone  <--- really big initial download.
08:33 mtompset       Is there an optimized git clone command that doesn't download 400MB+ the first time?
08:16 mtompset       I'm grabbing the latest Debian netinstall ISO.
08:15 mtompset       I'll test that theory later. I'm about to test if /etc/environment affects cron.d --- Ooooo! It did. :)
08:00 eythian        mtompset: it works on Ubuntu, probably debian too
08:00 huginn         eythian: The current temperature in Den Haag, Den Haag, Netherlands is 17.4°C (9:50 AM CEST on September 11, 2012). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 84%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
08:00 eythian        @wunder the hague
07:59 mtompset       Does /etc/environment work on Debian too?
07:58 huginn         kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 18.2°C (9:55 AM CEST on September 11, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 90%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
07:58 kf             @wunder Konstanz
07:57 eythian        that is not what I asked for
07:57 huginn         eythian: The current temperature in Green Valley Ranch Golf Club, Denver, Colorado is 10.0°C (1:55 AM MDT on September 11, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 6.0°C. Pressure: 29.75 in 1008 hPa (Falling).
07:57 eythian        @wunder den haag
07:57 eythian        kf: not so awesome here, alas
07:57 eythian        because /etc/environment
07:57 mtompset       Yes, because then it should work in cron, or a user shell.
07:57 eythian        mtompset: so you want system-wide?
07:57 kf             eythian: seems Konstanz is finally over you ;)
07:56 mtompset       (it is in other OS's)
07:56 kf             eythian: the nice weather returned :)
07:56 mtompset       But that isn't even called.
07:56 mtompset       And it was saying to put something in /etc/bash.bashrc.local
07:56 eythian        hi kf
07:56 kf             hey eythian
07:56 mtompset       I'm trying to clean up the last part of the Ubuntu docs before de-tar-ifying them.
07:56 eythian        or just in general?
07:55 eythian        mtompset: system-wide variables?>
07:55 rangi          not /etc
07:54 mtompset       In which case an /etc/profile.d/koha_env.sh is an okay idea?
07:54 rangi          people using other ones probably know how to set them
07:54 rangi          you are best to give an example for bash, as thats probably the most common shell
07:53 mtompset       :( That's a lousy reality.
07:52 rangi          there is no generic way, it depends entirely on what shell people use
07:51 mtompset       That is... I logout, login in, and the variables just happen to be set.
07:51 mtompset       Anyone have an opinion on the best way to set environment variables which is generally generic?
07:50 mtompset       Greetings again, #koha.
07:27 magnuse        bbl
07:21 mtompset       Greetings, #koha...
07:06 matts          hi !
07:01 mveron         Good morning #koha
06:44 wahanui        que tal, reiveune
06:44 reiveune       hello
06:26 alex_a         bonjour!
05:10 mtompset       Greetings, rangi.
05:10 huginn         rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 8.0°C (4:00 PM NZST on September 11, 2012). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 3.0°C. Windchill: 3.0°C. Pressure: 29.77 in 1008 hPa (Rising).
05:10 rangi          @wunder nzwn
05:10 mtompset       Greetings, #koha.
05:07 mtj            hmm, i'd like to see a screnshot of that bug...
04:15 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8753 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Add forgot password link to OPAC
04:15 rangi          eek bug 8753
04:06 Oak            heya bag :)
04:00 bag            heya Oak
03:59 Oak            Ahoy me hearties
03:31 ibeardslee     and this morning was beautiful and sunny and I thought 'I don't need the rain jacket today'
03:28 mtj            oooh, random hail in wgtn!
03:26 jcamins_away   Hehe.
03:26 senator        (evergreen contributors cannot help but use botanical metaphors)
03:26 mtj            (goods news for when koha gets postgres reintergrated)
03:25 senator        koha++ # rise in koha/evergreen community cross-pollination lately. much credit to jcamins
03:23 mtj            senator++
03:20 jcamins_away   senator: good to know. This was pre-deciding to install Evergreen, or I would've been bugging you about it.
03:19 senator        jcamins_away: just rolling by, had to defend postgres. yeah that's faulty documentation. you definitely do not need a root shell. sudo su postgres is fine.
03:12 jcamins_away   I'm sure there's another way to do it, but there's rather too much documentation to go through when all I want to do is create a user quickly.
03:12 jcamins_away   Hehe. Yeah... it's absolutely unbelievable.
03:11 mtj            well, i just knew i would prove you wrong…. or not :/
03:11 jcamins_away   I didn't destroy my system with the root shell, so no harm done. :)
03:10 jcamins_away   No need for you to spend time researching it.
03:10 * jcamins_away shrugs
03:10 jcamins_away   Yeah, and the guide said `sudo su - postgres` wouldn't work.
03:08 mtj            # su - postgres
03:08 mtj            oops, i might be wrong about that , even...
03:07 mtj            ftw, heres an example without having to su as root -> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-add-postgresql-user-account
03:03 jcamins_away   Thankfully, I have installed postgres on the one VM that needs it. :)
03:03 mtj            lol, ok
03:02 jcamins_away   Right. According to the quickstart guide, you must su to root in order to login as the database superuser.
03:02 jcamins_away   mtj: nor could I. But that's what the postgres quickstart doc said. So I followed the instructions, and made a mental note to not configure postgres again until someone pointed out a better quickstart guide.
03:02 mtj            'CREATE USER adds a new user to a PostgreSQL ….  You must be a database superuser to use this command.'
03:01 mtj            http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.0/static/sql-createuser.html
03:00 mtj            hmm, really? i cant believe that...
03:00 jcamins_away   mtj: at least, that's what the instructions said. Since setting up postgres was a one-time activity on a development VM, I accepted the instructions at face value.
02:57 * jcamins_away disapproves of root shells.
02:57 jcamins_away   mtj: you have to su to root in order to create a postgres user.
02:26 mtj            jcamins_away, im curious - whats the nuisance?
02:21 mtj            i dont recall it being tricky?
02:20 jcamins_away   mtj: now if only creating users in postgres weren't a horrible nuisance.
02:18 mtj            wooh, go postgres! -> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/12/09/10/2220202/postgresql-92-out-with-greatly-improved-scalability
01:05 * chris_n      finds it interesting that he lost his notices history during the upgrade from 3.2 to 3.8