Time  Nick           Message
00:06 wajasu         i'm attempting bug 8215 again since a newer patch was submitted. but i'm afraid the patch writer is just leaving out a couple of perl routines that "copy" the code to the right directory on the intranet side.
00:06 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8215 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add Course Reserves
00:07 wajasu         should i look into editting Makefile.PL or something else.
00:07 jcamins        No.
00:07 jcamins        You should report it's not working and let the author do it.
00:07 wajasu         this is the second time around.
00:08 jcamins        If you're not sure what the problem is, there will be less confusion for all involved if you toss it back. Often what happens is the wrong patch gets uploaded.
00:08 jcamins        If you'd like you can try to troubleshoot it.
00:09 wajasu         i used find to find 3 perl routines.  He did it right for the OPAC, but left out these routines.  its only because i am doing a std install and he is probably dev install.
00:11 jcamins        Well, everything needs to work for a standard install.
00:43 wajasu         ok, i see he needed a line in the target_map, and he's got unbalanced updatedatabase.pl    i'm throwing it back. its not evident.
00:54 mtj            wajasu, you've selected an impressively difficult patch to sign-off on :p
01:26 wajasu         i failed it.  its actually what my users wanted 3 years ago.  if instructors can tag their course/syllabus reading material, then maybe rules that keep at least one on the shelf, etc will get requested.
01:29 mtj            ah, that makes more sense… and i thought you just liked a challenge :)
01:32 wizzyrea       oh course reserves/
01:32 wizzyrea       ?
02:14 libsysguy      after having to use this twice I feel the need to post this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4
02:32 wajasu         that made my day.
02:32 wajasu         kill -9
02:56 wizzyrea       libsysguy: also this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcJFdCmN98s
02:57 rangi          heh
02:57 wizzyrea       oyyy
02:57 rangi          too slow :)
02:58 * wizzyrea     cries a little
04:43 cait           good morning #koha
05:52 mveron         Good morning #koha
05:52 mveron         http://translate.koha-community.org/  seems to be down?
06:12 cait           same for me
06:13 wajasu         me too
06:34 cait           brb
06:54 drojf          good morning #koha
06:55 bag            evening
06:55 wahanui        hmmm... evening is better for me - but not too late
06:55 drojf          evening would be better for me too
07:06 francharb      hi
07:06 drojf          hey francharb
07:06 wahanui        francharb falls asleep easily at sea.  Don't believe me?  Just ask Brooke.
07:11 clrh           hello
07:11 wahanui        what's up, clrh
07:11 drojf          bonjour clrh
07:12 mtj            bonjour europe
07:21 kf             hi #koha
07:25 drojf          hi mtj and kf
07:26 kf             hi mt hi drojf :)
07:28 kf             good morning eythian :)
07:28 eythian        hi kf
07:31 drojf          @wunder berlin, germany
07:31 huginn         drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 18.8°C (9:12 AM CEST on August 17, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady).
07:31 drojf          @wunder rodenberg, germany
07:31 huginn         drojf: The current temperature in APRSWXNET Hannover DE, Bueckeburg, Germany is 17.8°C (9:02 AM CEST on August 17, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.15 in 1021 hPa (Steady).
07:31 kf             @wunder Konstanz
07:31 huginn         kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 16.7°C (9:25 AM CEST on August 17, 2012). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady).
07:32 drojf          seems like we will have a very hot weekend
07:32 kf             the weather reports look like it
07:32 kf             but it's not too warm today
07:32 drojf          and i will spend it without notebook at my mum's \o/
07:33 kf             taking an internet break? :)
07:33 drojf          not completely, i'll take my tablet. and the raspi :D
07:33 drojf          but without thunderbird, that will halp a lot
07:33 drojf          help
07:50 magnuse        kia ora #koha
07:51 magnuse        happy pizza day!
07:57 kf             hi magnuse :)
07:58 eythian        hola magnuse
07:59 magnuse        hiya kf and eythian
07:59 magnuse        @wunder konstanz
07:59 huginn         magnuse: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 17.8°C (9:55 AM CEST on August 17, 2012). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 90%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady).
07:59 eythian        warming up...
07:59 magnuse        nice
07:59 magnuse        @wunder boo
07:59 huginn         magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 15.0°C (9:50 AM CEST on August 17, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Steady).
07:59 magnuse        not too bad either
08:00 magnuse        so what's happening in konstanz today`
08:00 magnuse        s/`/?/
08:01 eythian        Not a lot so far. I can only assume that they have a German-beer o'clock at 4pm precisely ;)
08:01 kf             hopefully finishing the program for the workshop :)
08:01 eythian        also that :)
08:01 kf             eythian: I have been trying to implement that here... but with no success so far
08:01 kf             more likely we will have icecream-o-clock ;)
08:02 magnuse        icecream > beer
08:02 magnuse        :-)
08:02 magnuse        when is the workshop?
08:04 kf             28/29
08:04 magnuse        still some time left then
08:04 magnuse        in norway, alcohol in the workplace is a strict no-no
08:05 magnuse        you can go to a pub after work, but drinking in the workplace would be frowned upon
08:05 kf             yeah, I think it's similar here
08:06 eythian        well, it's frowned upon before 4pm on a Friday.
08:06 eythian        in NZ
08:06 eythian        at Catalyst, anyway
08:06 eythian        Unless it's been a bad week, then you could probably get away with starting earlier ;)
08:06 kf             heh
08:06 drojf          lol
08:06 drojf          NZ++ :D
08:11 magnuse        hehe
08:12 * magnuse      takes padre for a spin
09:05 magnuse        huh, how am i supposed to get any work done when Firebug refuses to cooperate?
09:07 kf             what does it do?
09:07 eythian        it crashes firefox for me sometimes
09:07 eythian        just recently though
09:11 magnuse        ah, seems to work after a restart of firefox
09:11 magnuse        it just refused to do anything
09:16 eythian        when it makes firefox die for me, it crashes on startup, which is annoying.
09:17 magnuse        nah, that sounds like fun!
09:17 magnuse        ;-)
10:24 magnuse        tjänare viktor
11:00 kf             hi Viktor :)
12:07 magnuse        anyone else getting through to http://translate.koha-community.org/ ?
12:13 liw            magnuse, does not work for me
12:13 magnuse        thanks liw
12:14 magnuse        maybe fredericd needs to kick it?
12:15 mbalmer        not reachable from .ch either
12:25 magnuse        :-(
12:27 hdl1           anyone having a weird right truncation ? zebra_start 2.0.44
12:28 hdl1           when used to search chien, it also finds chine
12:28 hdl1           and chinois
12:38 jcamins_away   hdl1: turn off everything except for QueryWeightFields, and see if the problem still occurs.
12:38 hdl1           jcamins_away: already done.
12:38 hdl1           jcamins_away: zebra query is
12:39 jcamins_away   Does it still happen with QueryWeightFields?
12:39 jcamins_away   *turned off
12:39 * jcamins_away hasn't had any coffee.
12:39 hdl1           f @attr 1=1016 @attr 4=6 @attr 5=1 chien
12:39 hdl1           and I get :
12:39 * druthb       delivers coffee to jcamins_away, who isn't, quite, away, anymore.
12:41 hdl1           Conformité des ceremonies chinoises avec l'idolatrie grecque et romaine. Pour servir de confirmation à l'Apologie des dominicains missionnaires de la Chine. Par un religieux docteur & professeur en theologie
12:41 hdl1           which is not having chien in any field
12:42 kf             Chine < looks like fuzzy would effect it
12:42 jcamins_away   What do you get with @attr 1=1016 @attr 4=6 chien?
12:43 hdl1           kf: Yes, but zebra search is : only right truncation, no fuzzy
12:43 hdl1           jcamins_away: it works as expected without the @attr 5=
12:43 jcamins_away   That's... bizarre.
12:43 * kf           will leave it to the experts
12:44 hdl1           But my "wonder" is that it is NOT the expected behaviour.
12:44 hdl1           jcamins_away: what zebra version are you using ?
12:44 jcamins_away   2.0.44.
12:45 jcamins_away   What if you do a scan on 'chie'?
12:46 jcamins_away   If the problem were in the indexing configuration, you should have a term chien[something]
12:47 hdl1           trying to use icu at the moment
12:47 hdl1           will try your suggestion later.
12:47 hdl1           export is export.
12:48 * jcamins_away has to head into the city, but will be back later.
13:26 eythian        do we have any way of know when a particular subscription last received a new item, assuming that you don't create items for these?
13:26 eythian        like, is "last received date" hidden around somewhere?
13:27 kf             hm I think so
13:27 kf             have you checked the serialitems table?
13:28 kf             ah no, serial
13:29 eythian        hmm, could be promising. I was wading through the subscription table
13:29 kf             ah no not there
13:29 kf             I think serial has most likely what you need
13:30 kf             hi libsysguy
13:30 kf             libsysguy?
13:30 wahanui        libsysguy is, like, Koha's hottest developer or partying with swedes on his deck or koha's youngest developer
13:30 libsysguy      hehe
13:30 libsysguy      hi kf
13:31 libsysguy      oh oh kf I found out how to do that template thing you were trying to help with the other day
13:31 kf             oh? :)
13:31 oleonard       Ooh I love template things.
13:32 kf             lol
13:32 libsysguy      ok so a for loop without a pre-defined array
13:32 libsysguy      say I wanted a select statement in html from 1-30 but i didn't want to copy paste
13:33 libsysguy      you can do:
13:34 libsysguy      [% FOREACH number in [1 .. 30 ]%] <option>[" number "]</option> [% END %]
13:34 * oleonard     was trying to do exactly that just yesterday
13:34 libsysguy      turns out the spaces after the ..'s are important
13:34 oleonard       Where did you find that libsysguy ?
13:35 kf             hmm
13:35 magnuse        heh, that's the kind of thing you could spend half a day figuring out...
13:35 kf             [" or [%?
13:35 libsysguy      deep in the fire of some template doc
13:35 magnuse        ... or at least i could ...
13:35 libsysguy      spent several days
13:35 libsysguy      kf just [ like an array reference
13:35 eythian        @later tell nengard when you get to documenting the serials table, the status field is: 1=expected, 2=arrived, 3=late, 4=missing, 5=not available
13:35 huginn         eythian: The operation succeeded.
13:35 libsysguy      you can't use ( like a normal array
13:35 kf             I wonder how the translation scripts like that
13:36 kf             [" number "] < this part here
13:36 oleonard       not [% number %] ?
13:36 libsysguy      oh the number part…thats by mistake…it is [%
13:36 eythian        http://template-toolkit.org/docs/manual/ <-- you guys know this, right?
13:36 kf             ah right, then it should be ok :)
13:37 libsysguy      sorry, I was so excited to type it and share
13:37 kf             eythian: tell me to hit send.
13:37 * oleonard     was searching for that syntax in that manual yesterday eythian
13:37 eythian        g'wan, you can do it
13:37 kf             I did.
13:37 libsysguy      eythan that syntax isn't in there I don't think
13:39 eythian        > You can also create simple numerical sequences using the .. range operator:
13:39 libsysguy      i think I found it in a cpan tutorial for TT
13:39 libsysguy      soab...
13:39 eythian        http://template-toolkit.org/docs/manual/Variables.html <-- 31% down this page
13:40 kf             what, no line number?
13:40 libsysguy      i scrolled by that countless times
13:41 eythian        line numbers don't work in HTML so well, but my browser does give a percentage :)
13:41 kf             only thought a line number would be more stylish
13:41 libsysguy      cait last example under list references
13:41 eythian        for an English workshop, you're still sending emails in some funny moon language.
13:42 kf             the programme is in English :P
13:42 kf             and I am sure you can live without me making you proof read my mails too
13:43 oleonard       libsysguy: This doesn't work for me: [% FOREACH number in [ 1 .. 30 ]%] [% number %] [% END %]
13:43 eythian        oleonard: caps?
13:43 eythian        I forget if it's sensitive or not, but I think it can be.
13:43 eythian        (looking at your 'in')
13:45 oleonard       You're right eythian
13:46 oleonard       Awesome, good find libsysguy
13:46 libsysguy      thanks oleonard
13:47 libsysguy      also oleonard I've been working on using the calendar with ajax
13:47 libsysguy      so far its been a learning process with CGI but not aweful
13:54 wajasu         you guys love template toolkit.  has anyone suggested using tt for our notices/emails?  after working in the overdue_notice and Letters.pm substitution stuff, we could leverage it.
13:54 kf             we would stil have to keep it simple for libraries somehow
13:56 gmcharlt       kf: I think it is -- Evergreen uses TT for its notices, and I haven't observed any particular difficulty on the part of librarians
13:56 gmcharlt       at least, not more than *any* template language might be in general
13:56 wajasu         i know we can convert our existing simple template to tt format for backend logic.  and if the library wanted more power, we could have a dropdown to switch per template.
13:56 magnuse        gmcharlt: cool!
13:57 kf             yep, cool :)
13:57 gmcharlt       and of course, we can also define helper functions to make common tasks easier
13:58 wajasu         if we could write a Template::Toolkit::Provider against the database, we could grab them from there, so when our hosting providers upgrade, the custom templates are in the db dump, and not external in the filesystem.
13:58 wajasu         this also means all our custom biblio details pages could be in the db.
13:59 sekjal         morning, #koha
14:01 wajasu         i also saw MIME::Lite::TT::HTML which lets us send email notices via sendmail or directly to SMTP server (a syspref), so then many shops don't have to set up sendmail client.
14:03 jcamins_away   wajasu: MIME::Lite::TT::HTML has some issues.
14:04 jcamins        It's kind of brittle.
14:04 wajasu         oh
14:05 jcamins        I can't remember exactly what issues I had with it, but there were definitely issues.
14:06 jcamins        Oh, yes, I remember.
14:06 jcamins        You *have* to send the e-mail immediately.
14:06 wajasu         but it would be nice to let a user edit their template/notice, with it rendered side by side in the page (via submit or ajax).
14:06 jcamins        No queuing possible.
14:06 eythian        well, we have our own email queuing thing already
14:07 jcamins        eythian: right, but what MIME::Lite::TT::HTML creates isn't acceptable to sendmail.
14:07 eythian        that would be an issue
14:07 jcamins        That only took me several days of frustration to figure out.
14:07 jcamins        Yep.
14:08 eythian        hey, I have an SQL query that may return the same biblionumber several times, with different information after that, but I only want it to output the first one it sees. Is there a good way to do that?
14:09 eythian        group by seems prone to picking the wrong field later on.
14:09 eythian        and distinct looks for duplicate rows, not fields.
14:09 jcamins        eythian: subquery with group by?
14:09 eythian        jcamins: that's what I'm thinking really.
14:09 eythian        was hoping for something a bit nicer, but I guess it's OK
14:10 kf             max()?
14:10 eythian        no, max won't work as I'm not dealing with just numbers.
14:10 eythian        (serial issue fields, in this case)
14:11 eythian        I want the most recent one from the latest received serials.
14:11 kf             hm was thinking to use it on the dates
14:11 eythian        but then I lose my sequence field
14:11 tweetbot`      [off] twitter: @saschel: "Heard today that library Agentschap Onroerend Erfgoed in Brussels will move to #kohails soon. Anybody anymore news? #super / @vioe"
14:14 wajasu         i wonder if we can convert  <item>"<<biblio.title>>" by <<biblio.author>>, <<items.itemcallnumber>>, Barcode: <<items.barcode>> Fine: <fine>USD</fine></item>
14:14 wajasu         to the equivalent TT template, then just sumbit it for processing. Then with our model backing it...  the FOREACH for items is the ticket i think.
14:14 jcamins        wajasu: worth a try.
14:17 sekjal         wow... I've been away for a while... we've got biblioitems.ean, and C4::Member::Statistics.... Koha's a different place
14:17 jcamins        sekjal: I'm proposing replacing C4::Search with Evergreen's QueryParser.
14:18 wajasu         jcamins: so where should i start with tesing/theme stuff?  i read that some fallback yada yada was broken.
14:18 jcamins        And we've gone a bit Pluggable crazy in bug 7417 and bug 8209.
14:18 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7417 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Passed QA , Include alternate forms from authorities in bibliographic searches
14:18 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8209 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Signed Off , "Did you mean?" suggestions based on authorities
14:18 jcamins        sekjal: also, as wajasu points out, there's a working mobile theme awaiting signoff.
14:19 kf             sekjal: you can ignore ean - it only works for unimarc
14:19 jcamins        @query themes broken
14:19 jcamins        Hm.
14:19 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8622 major, P3, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Koha themes broken
14:19 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4394 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, jwagner, Pushed to Master , opaccolorstylesheet syspref won't allow an external URL
14:19 jcamins        Ah.
14:20 jcamins        wajasu: start with bug 8622. The first thing to do is check that Koha still functions with that patch applied.
14:20 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8622 major, P3, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Koha themes broken
14:20 jcamins        Then you install bug 8537, and see if you can use the new theme.
14:20 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8537 normal, P5 - low, ---, christophe.croullebois, RESOLVED DUPLICATE, In moremember.pl the call of output_pref is without check
14:20 jcamins        No.
14:20 jcamins        Bug 8357
14:20 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8357 minor, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Passed QA , UNIMARCslim2OPACDetail.xsl, title without class and too links to views
14:20 jcamins        Bug 8573
14:20 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8573 normal, P3, ---, oleonard, Passed QA , Translation difficult in picture-upload.tt due to nested sentence in if/foreach/if/elsif - construction
14:20 jcamins        Uhhh... then you find the bug with the new theme.
14:21 jcamins        wajasu: but note that you have to sign off on my branch because the patches were too big to attach to Bugzilla.
14:21 sekjal         anyone else having problems with prove t?
14:21 sekjal         C4::Members::Statistics fails to in t/00-load.t
14:22 jcamins        sekjal: not me.
14:23 jcamins        All it depends on is Modern::Perl, too.
14:23 wajasu         ok jcamins looking a 8622
14:24 jcamins        sekjal: do you get any sort of error message?
14:24 jcamins        Try perl -c C4/Members/Statistics.pm
14:25 sekjal         Error:  Can't call method "config" on unblessed reference at C4/Context.pm line 746.
14:25 Viktor         Oh my - sorry @magnuse and @kf - nobody was on here and I was looking into some Python projects. Discovered all sorts of discussion going on just now as I'm packing up to go home.
14:25 sekjal         ah
14:25 sekjal         probably need to export my KOHA_CONF
14:25 sekjal         getting rusty...
14:25 jcamins        Yup.
14:25 jcamins        That'd probably help.
14:26 sekjal         helped
14:26 sekjal         ::sigh::
14:28 sekjal         missing 9 dependencies...
14:28 sekjal         and they don't seem to be packaged with the names I'd expect
14:28 jcamins        sekjal: you can ignore the Data::Pag* and...
14:28 jcamins        One or two others.
14:28 oleonard       Template::Plugin::HtmlToText?
14:28 sekjal         Template::Plugin::HtmlToText is the only one marked required
14:28 jcamins        No, that one is required.
14:29 kf             used for sending out cart emails
14:29 sekjal         and libtemplate-plugin-htmltotext-perl isn't valid
14:29 jcamins        sekjal: it's in the k-c repo.
14:29 eythian        sekjal: it is in the koha debian repo
14:29 kf             hm worked for me
14:29 kf             ah
14:29 jcamins        kf: what did?
14:29 kf             installing the dependency - but probably because I have that on my list of sources?
14:30 eythian        yeah
14:30 eythian        that'll make it work
14:30 sekjal         so now we've got packages beyond just koha?
14:30 eythian        where necessary
14:30 oleonard       Are there instructions for adding the k-c repo and getting stuff like Template::Plugin::HtmlToText?
14:30 jcamins        debian?
14:30 wahanui        hmmm... debian is what most people use and there are good manuals and even packages for that
14:30 eythian        only 3 or 4 at this stage
14:30 sekjal         I would question necessity in such cases
14:30 jcamins        That's odd.
14:31 eythian        wahanui: packages
14:31 oleonard       packages?
14:31 wahanui        rumour has it packages is at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian
14:31 wahanui        i heard packages was at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian
14:31 eythian        snap
14:31 jcamins        Oh.
14:31 jcamins        sekjal: many of them are packaged in Wheezy, and things like having the cart translatable are definitely critical.
14:31 eythian        sekjal: well, there's always been stuff you needed from CPAN
14:32 eythian        now you just need it from another repo, which is nicer than cpan.
14:32 sekjal         eythian: for a while there, everything was available as a debian package in Squeeze
14:32 eythian        yeah, that wasn't for very long though
14:32 sekjal         jcamins:  cart definitely needs to be translatable... but using that particular package isn't necessarily the only way to do that
14:32 eythian        and that was because liw managed to get everything needed into squeeze before it was released.
14:33 jcamins        sekjal: true.
14:34 liw            eythian is now part of the Debian perl packaging team and can help get everything Koha needs into Debian
14:34 sekjal         I'm frustrated, but I don't feel like I've got a real leg to stand on complaining, because I've been out of the loop for so long
14:35 eythian        basically, it's suggested to add the debian.k-c repo, and things go fairly smoothly :)
14:36 sekjal         more problems with 00-load.t:   Error:  Can't locate Cache/Memcached/Fast.pm in @INC
14:36 eythian        liw: that's my plan, time constraints are very against me unfortunately :( I should try to do one a week or something.
14:36 eythian        sekjal: libcache-memcached-fast-perl
14:36 liw            eythian, aye
14:37 magnuse        sekjal: i just apt-got that one :-)
14:37 jcamins        There's a patch correcting that dependency in C4::Installer::PerlDependencies.
14:37 sekjal         jcamins:  ah, thank you... I figured it might be a case of missing deps
14:38 sekjal         eythian;  also in debian.k-c?
14:38 eythian        sekjal: yep
14:39 jcamins        libcache-memcached-fast-perl isn't packaged by default?
14:39 eythian        I think the non -fast version is
14:39 sekjal         jcamins:  not anywhere my Ubuntu 10.04 laptop can get it
14:39 sekjal         (natively)
14:39 eythian        ohh. 10.04.
14:39 jcamins        Package libcache-memcached-fast-perl
14:39 jcamins        squeeze (stable) (perl): Perl client for memcached, in C language
14:39 jcamins        Oh, 10.04?
14:39 wahanui        i guess 10.04 is the most recent LTS still, I think.
14:39 jcamins        Ouch.
14:39 eythian        no wahanui, 10.04 is not the most recent LTS, 12.04 is.
14:39 wahanui        okay, eythian.
14:40 * jcamins      just tells people using 10.04 that they need to upgrade to 12.04 at this point.
14:40 eythian        yeah, I can't remember if 10.04 works still or not.
14:40 eythian        I guess sekjal will find out ;)
14:40 sekjal         eythian:  works fine for me for most tasks
14:40 jcamins        eythian: it does for 3.6.x.
14:40 sekjal         just not this particular one
14:40 jcamins        I doubt it will for Master.
14:40 eythian        sekjal: I mean for installing koha on.
14:41 sekjal         that raises an interesting question:  where are we keeping track of what OS's and versions Koha will run on?
14:41 sekjal         is there an up-to-date wiki page?
14:41 jcamins        @query ubuntu
14:41 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5847 critical, P1 - high, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Manage Staged MARC Records stuck at 0% if isbn matching rule selected.
14:41 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4800 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, chris, NEW , Disable book cover image in the title view if the feature is on in the OPAC.
14:41 sekjal         and if so, is it descriptive or proscriptive?
14:41 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6876 minor, P5 - low, ---, frederic, NEW , oai-pmh ListMetadataFormats marcxml definition
14:41 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5217 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , INSTALL.ubuntu Packages/CPAN notes out of date for Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid)
14:41 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5617 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , fix-perl-path.pl misses some files
14:42 jcamins        I'm not having much luck with huginn today.
14:42 jcamins        @query ubuntu.packages
14:42 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5217 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , INSTALL.ubuntu Packages/CPAN notes out of date for Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid)
14:42 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7764 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , INSTALL.ubuntu needs updating
14:42 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8478 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , Update Ubuntu related files
14:42 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5549 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, chris, Pushed to Stable , Hourly Loans
14:42 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8489 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Pushed to Stable , Revised ubuntu-pkg-check.sh, renamed ubuntu package files, tweaked 12.04 package file, copied 12.04 package file to ubuntu.packages
14:42 sekjal         we've set a minimum Perl version that Koha should work with, proscriptively
14:42 jcamins        Bug 8478.
14:42 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8478 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , Update Ubuntu related files
14:42 sekjal         err, perscriptively
14:43 eythian        sekjal: I'm not sure there is a list. I know debian stable and ubuntu 12.04 are fine. I think that debian stable's perl version tends to be prescriptive.
14:43 gmcharlt       jcamins: do you recall if there was any though to using Library::CallNumber::LC rather than the existing LCC call number sort routine?
14:43 jcamins        gmcharlt: I'm not sure, but it seems like a good idea to me.
14:43 sekjal         I think we should do the same for OS support
14:43 sekjal         promise that Koha will run on X, Y and Z, and reject patches that break any one of those
14:43 sekjal         would make QA easier
14:44 jcamins        sekjal: my policy on 3.6.x is Ubuntu 10.04+ and Debian 6.0+.
14:45 magnuse        would that include rejecting patches that introduce new dependencies that are not packaged for that OS/version?
14:45 gmcharlt       nice might be all Ubuntu LTS release
14:45 jcamins        magnuse: I require all proposed dependencies be packaged in the debian.k-c.org.
14:45 jcamins        magnuse: there are legitimate use cases for many things that aren't currently packaged.
14:46 sekjal         magnuse: either rejecting the patch, or deferring it until the next major release of Koha, pending an agreement to bump the requirements
14:46 slef           hi all. I'm back.
14:46 sekjal         hi, slef
14:46 magnuse        wb slef
14:47 magnuse        jcamins and sekjal: hm, not sure that makes sense to me, but my brain is starting to crave pizza...
14:47 jcamins        magnuse: mmmm. Pizza.
14:48 magnuse        :-)
14:48 jcamins        magnuse: getting packages into debian.k-c.org is easy.
14:48 jcamins        I leave an @later for eythian saying "Please add such-and-such package to oldstable on debian.k-c.org.
14:48 eythian        sekjal: we don't tend to introduce new dependencies into minor updates.
14:48 eythian        (if we can help it)
14:48 magnuse        jcamins: yeah, that sounds doable ;-)
14:50 tcohen         maybe we could continue the discussion on officialy supported distros on koha-dev
14:50 sekjal         tcohen:  sounds good... I'll move it there now
14:50 tcohen         I proposed supporting LTS Ubuntu Releases
14:51 tcohen         (recent ones)
14:52 jcamins        libtemplate-plugin-htmltotext-perl is the exception, but it still hasn't been accepted to 3.6.x.
14:52 eythian        tcohen: well, it depends what you mean by "supporting" too. Really the only hard requirement is the Perl version supported.
14:53 jcamins        The plan is to provide .packages files for 10.04, 12.04, and "latest" Ubuntu.
14:53 tcohen         supporting means (for example) we maintain the docs for just those releases
14:53 tcohen         the same for ubuntu.packages and so on
14:53 tcohen         I belive 'latest' is too much :-D
14:54 eythian        latest almost comes for free really
14:54 tcohen         but if mtompset's scripts make it an easy task, well, if we have the time to maintain that...
14:55 tcohen         I mean, people can folow the  instructions for the latest LTS and solve the missing bits
14:55 jcamins        tcohen: latest and "last LTS" should be identical in almost all cases.
14:57 magnuse        tcohen: you proposed some new sysprefs for bug 7187 - do you plan to work on that?
14:57 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7187 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kmkale, NEW , Prioritize cover image sources such as Amazon, Google and add fail over i.e. if first source fails, go to next
14:58 jcamins        gmcharlt: why are you looking at Library::Callnumber::LC?
14:58 tcohen         yes magnuse
14:58 magnuse        tcohen: cool!
14:58 tcohen         but if you're going to work on that i can help too
14:59 magnuse        well, i have no immediate plans, but i'm working on a project where covers from several sources would be a good thing
14:59 magnuse        tcohen: so don't let me stop you ;-)
15:00 tcohen         hehe
15:00 tcohen         I need to work on shibboleth too
15:00 tcohen         as we're implementing that
15:00 tcohen         i'll be working on both as long as daily stuff lets me
15:00 kf             tcohen: I think biblibre is too - working on shibboleth
15:01 tcohen         oh, kf that sounds good
15:01 sekjal         I've only ever heard of Shib being "worked on", never "working"
15:01 gmcharlt       jcamins: a customer pointed out a case of misorting
15:02 jcamins        gmcharlt: ah. It does that a lot.
15:02 jcamins        (missort)
15:02 gmcharlt       specific example was SB410.9 .P26 1993 coming before SB410.A26 I75 2000
15:02 tcohen         is translate.k-c.org down?
15:02 magnuse        tcohen: it was earlier today
15:02 clrh           thanks khall :) ( and bywater guys )
15:02 eythian        tcohen: yep
15:03 jcamins        gmcharlt: yep, that's been an issue for a long time.
15:03 jcamins        So at least you can narrow the problem down to the way Koha does sorting? :/
15:03 gmcharlt       yep, and fix it
15:03 gmcharlt       (at least for code and reports that are using cn_sort)
15:04 * magnuse      cheers gmcharlt on
15:10 * magnuse      wanders off
15:10 oleonard       Ah, well without the cheering...
15:10 * oleonard     goes back to goofing off
15:21 kf             sekjal++
15:22 sekjal         kf: ?
15:22 kf             qaing :)
15:23 sekjal         kf:  ah, yes... sorry for letting it slip so long
15:24 sekjal         new job has picked up, and I've been doing a lot of other projects lately
15:24 sekjal         including another piece of software from NZ called SilverStripe
15:24 sekjal         (which I'm very impressed with)
15:24 kf             oh, what does it do?
15:25 sekjal         content management system
15:25 sekjal         as well as an MVC framework
15:25 sekjal         highly extensible
15:25 sekjal         our library website is based off an older version
15:25 sekjal         I'm testing the new version for upgrade, as well as new features
15:30 gmcharlt       jcamins: https://github.com/gmcharlt/koha-test/commits/fix_lcc_cn_sort
15:31 eythian        sekjal:  Oh yeah, I used to drink with the silverstripe folks from time to time
15:31 eythian        they're based in Wellington
15:31 gmcharlt       if you've got other examples of mis-sorting handy, I'd love to incorporate them into the test case
15:31 jcamins        gmcharlt: I'm not at my computer at the moment, but one place where there's always problems is the KF schedule.
15:32 sekjal         eythian: yeah, I noticed that.  seem like a good group.  I haven't gotten as far as contributing anything to the code base yet, but it's proving to be a solid framework for what I want to develop
15:33 oleonard       sekjal: Any idea why they picked that in the first place?
15:33 kf             jcamins: what did I do?
15:33 jcamins        kf: nothing, that's the class for US Laws.
15:33 sekjal         oleonard: do you mean why my library picked SilverStripe as their CMS?
15:34 oleonard       Yes
15:34 sekjal         at the time (before my arrival), it was found to meet the requirements and wishes list best, as defined by the Web Coordinating Committee
15:37 jcamins        Why does a CMS need an MVC framework?
15:38 jcamins        (I mean, why does it need to implement a new one)
15:38 sekjal         jcamins:  the CMS is just a module for the framework, and you can use it or not
15:39 sekjal         I'm very happy about the MVC
15:39 jcamins        sekjal: okay, that makes more sense. I thought it was a CMS with an entire MVC framework thrown in. Which seems..
15:39 jcamins        like Emacs?
15:39 jcamins        :D
15:39 gmcharlt       jcamins: turns out there was a bug after all -- bug 6281
15:39 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6281 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, ASSIGNED , Bug in LCC sort routine
15:39 sekjal         I'd like to see the Catalyst MVC work gain some traction.  Koha could really benefit from it
15:40 jcamins        libsysguy has been working with it.
15:40 libsysguy      yes I have
15:40 jcamins        gmcharlt: there are some more samples for the test, too.
15:40 libsysguy      well I was
15:40 sekjal         yeah, I pulled his repo a while back
15:40 sekjal         encouraging
15:40 libsysguy      before I got distracted
15:41 libsysguy      sekjal I learned something interesting about catalyst
15:41 gmcharlt       jcamins: indeed, I've already incorporated those in my WIP branch
15:41 libsysguy      do not install it from packages
15:41 sekjal         libsysguy:  that is interesting.  why not?
15:41 libsysguy      they are outdated
15:42 libsysguy      and don't support Authentication or catalystX
15:42 sekjal         ah
15:42 libsysguy      if you get on their IRC the devels even say don't pull from packages
15:42 slef           catalyst needs help
15:42 libsysguy      cpanm works well though
15:43 slef           I wish their devels would help the packages instead of telling people to splatter cpan across their systems
15:43 jcamins        Does Catalyst development move at the same rate as Ruby?
15:44 jcamins        I heard Ruby development movement described as "ooh, shiny!" by a Ruby developer.
15:44 libsysguy      yeah it is
15:45 libsysguy      the problem I have with Ruby is backwards compatibility (or the lack therein)
15:47 libsysguy      i agree slef that the devels should get the packages working
15:47 libsysguy      I took their survey they other day and said packages should move up in priority
15:47 eythian        I think there's work on the debian side for the packages
15:47 slef           or just help... I linked a debian-perl thread recently
15:48 slef           ironically, I was about to post the opposite view in reply to sekjal, like, is it all up to Koha to support a few OSes?
15:49 jcamins        slef: until someone decides to pay a developer to make Koha work on Red Hat, I'd say it probably is our responsibility to say "here are the OSes we can help with, anything else we'll do our best but you're on your own."
15:50 slef           I'd prefer we moved back towards "these work, here's how - if you can get it working on something else, please document+contribute how"
15:50 jcamins        That's fine with me.
15:51 libsysguy      me too, isn't that how it is now
15:51 sekjal         a well-maintained matrix of what works on what would go a long way
15:51 libsysguy      yeah and an update to the wiki doc
15:51 slef           sekjal: time to hatchet the INSTALL.* files and ask "does this still work?"
15:52 slef           sekjal: I think you said it no longer works on some old ubuntu?
15:52 eythian        mtompset has been working on them I think
15:52 libsysguy      mtompset has been working with ubuntu
15:52 jcamins        So has tcohen.
15:52 sekjal         I cannot easily install libcache-memcache-fast-perl on my Ubuntu 10.04 system
15:52 eythian        it's in the k-c repo
15:53 jcamins        eythian: it is? It's available for Debian, and 10.10, so I think we probably wouldn't have packaged it.
15:53 libsysguy      ok so random question, has anybody used jira
15:53 slef           libsysguy: wiki installation docs should be a short-term thing. They really suck longer-term because you might not have easy web browsing during an install (even today) and you can't be 100% sure which version they're for.
15:53 slef           libsysguy: arrrgh, run away from Atlassian.
15:53 libsysguy      slef that is why I was just looking at...oh?
15:54 libsysguy      i just saw this http://www.atlassian.com/opensource/overview
15:54 slef           libsysguy: I dislike jira and Confluence is really unhelpful.
15:54 jcamins        Wait, you have to apply for an open source license?
15:54 libsysguy      I have never used jira…but i rather enjoyed Confluence
15:54 slef           it's not an open source license
15:54 slef           that's why it's really unhelpful
15:55 slef           it's a proprietary license for open source projects to get locked in
15:55 libsysguy      yeah
15:55 slef           it's bloody dishonest
15:56 eythian        jcamins: ah, confusing it with libcgi-session-driver-memcached-perl
15:56 jcamins        eythian: yeah, I figured.
15:56 slef           but the US allows sale of "pure squeezed orange juice... made from concentrate" so I doubt it's illegal, sadly.
15:58 slef           [off] a certain salesperson I know described US sales methods as something like "surprisingly unsubtle" recently ;-)
15:58 gmcharlt       eythian: do you package any backports for debian.k-c.org?  I'm looking at a potential new dependency that's packaged for wheezy already but isn't presently in squeeze-backports
15:59 gmcharlt       [off] slef: first they issue you your very own hammer...
15:59 jcamins        gmcharlt: libtemplate-plugin-htmltotext-perl is in Wheezy.
16:00 slef           gmcharlt: why not just upload it to backports.debian.org?
16:01 jcamins        gmcharlt: Library::Callnumber::LC?
16:01 slef           (I'll sponsor if you con't have a DD handy)
16:01 libsysguy      apache uses jira?!?!
16:01 gmcharlt       slef: probably simpler; as a matter of etiquette, would one first ask the DD that packaged if they're willing to upload it to backports?
16:01 gmcharlt       jcamins: right
16:02 slef           gmcharlt: probably as a matter of pragmatism because it's less work for you, yes :)
16:02 gmcharlt       slef: heh
16:02 slef           libsysguy: meh, a bit of GNU used Confluence last time I checked.
16:03 slef           libsysguy: I think a lot of developers get tricked by the "open source license" and it's non-trivial to change
16:03 libsysguy      oh so once they suck you in they have you
16:04 slef           libsysguy: if you ever wanted an illustration of why I write "In god we trust - all others must bring data" and why I'm pretty sceptical of most things, that's one.
16:04 slef           libsysguy: I think you can get out, but moving from dokuwiki to mediawiki for k-c was bad enough, wasn't it?
16:08 libsysguy      i guess that was before my time
16:08 libsysguy      like so many other things that happened to KC
16:08 slef           ok, let's ask the audience:
16:08 slef           everyone, was moving from dokuwiki to mediawiki bad enough?
16:08 * jcamins      prefers a darker green.
16:08 slef           ;)
16:08 slef           jcamins: spinach?
16:09 jcamins        slef: the audience was just sharing opinions. Not opinions on anything in particular.
16:09 slef           well it annoyed the heck out of me ;)
16:09 slef           the move, not the sharing
16:10 * jcamins      hardly noticed, actually.
16:11 francharb`     good afternoon / morning / evening!
16:11 francharb`     bye
16:33 datadoctor     How do folks feel about using capital letters to define additional local MARC 952 subfields?
16:34 * druthb       shudders.
16:34 jcamins        datadoctor: I think it's a terrible idea, but go ahead. I've been overruled.
16:34 datadoctor     We are attempting to define separate "Edit Item" fields for "permanent location" vs. (temporary) "location."
16:34 gmcharlt       datadoctor: that has the potential to run into the case-insensitve query mode that Koha uses
16:35 datadoctor     I see...
16:35 datadoctor     Would that only be a problem if I search on that field?
16:36 gmcharlt       more of a problem with interacting with the MARC framework
16:36 jcamins        datadoctor: why do you want to put it in the 952?
16:36 gmcharlt       frankly, it would be better (though not great) to use punctuation characters (that aren't SQL metacharacters) for such subfields
16:37 datadoctor     Wow! I could use punctuation? That could work well.
16:37 jcamins        Seems to me we've hit the limit of embedded MARC for item data.
16:37 druthb         is it even valid MARC to use uppercase?  If you try to feed that to a SD system, it will break rather spectacularly.
16:38 jcamins        druthb: it is. Just a bad idea.
16:38 datadoctor     It works when editing or creating an item.
16:38 datadoctor     May fail elsewhere as I am understanding.
16:39 * jcamins      maintains that we need to deprecate the 952 field for 3.12.
16:39 jcamins        However, since I won't be doing the work, I'm not too optimistic.
16:40 slef           if we don't use 952, how will we import items?
16:40 druthb         Gonna need some way to embed items for imports.  Dumping 952 without some reasonable replacement will make migrations a lot harder.
16:40 datadoctor     The motivation to use 952 is that the "Location" is already defined in 952 c, we just duplicate that to 952 C, and get a similar drop-down in Edit Item.
16:40 jcamins        slef: use 952 for serialization only.
16:41 jcamins        slef: druthb: if we *only* serialize to 952, it doesn't matter that we are on to uppercase/punctuation subfields.
16:42 jcamins        Despite removing items from the MARC (thanks, gmcharlt!), we still assume that an item is equivalent to a MARC field.
16:42 druthb         I was thinking of interchange with other vendors, jcamins--if someone gets their records from Ebsco, say, and has them embed item recs, it'll have to be MARC standard, or their systems will gag on it.  But if the standard allows uppercase and punctuation, then we're golden there.
16:42 jcamins        druthb: not sure about punctuation, but uppercase is allowed.
16:43 jcamins        Just a horrid idea.
16:43 druthb         yeah, confusing, at the very least.
16:43 gmcharlt       jcamins: fortunately less so -- one of the implicit reasons for the DOM mode indexing is that it lays the groundwork for indexing items without needing to serialize them as 952 fields
16:43 gmcharlt       the same would apply to Solr, for that matter
16:43 jcamins        gmcharlt: yeah, I know. I'm looking forward to that.
16:43 datadoctor     Does that mean we could define local information under a different MARC field, for example 962, but have it come up as tab 10 for the Edit item screen?
16:43 slef           well the alternative is to recode some of the 0/1 fields, which would be painful
16:43 slef           well they're not 0/1
16:44 gmcharlt       another direction is to extend the (item part) of the MARC frameworks to let you define multiple mapping sets for items
16:44 slef           I mean stuff that only has one value like the withdrawn and lost subfields
16:44 jcamins        I'd prefer 95x matched on subfield $9 to crazy subfield markers.
16:44 jcamins        But, as I said, this is all idle talk coming from me.
16:44 gmcharlt       that way, if you're given a set of bibs to import that have the items in 945 fields, say, you could define a new item framework rather than remap the item data to 952 fields
16:44 slef           actually yeah, what stop us using other 95x?
16:45 datadoctor     gmcharlt: I like the idea to "define multiple mapping sets for items"
16:45 jcamins        That would be excellent too.
16:45 gmcharlt       slef: not much, but there'd have to be a bit of code added so that the serializer could understand (say) pairs of 952/953 fields for import
16:45 * jcamins      looks around, settles on datadoctor as the probably implementor. :)
16:45 slef           I wouldn't be surprised to discover other MARC interpreters getting it wrong with uppercase and punctuation.
16:45 jcamins        *probable
16:46 gmcharlt       slef: it's distressingly not nailed down enough in the relevant standards
16:46 datadoctor     Glad to implement, not sure where to begin...
16:47 * gmcharlt     was looking at the the ISO-2709 standard just now
16:47 jcamins        gmcharlt: kind of like the RTL directional marker, which is apparently optional.
16:47 datadoctor     I'm learning a lot from this discussion though...
16:47 slef           gmcharlt: I think much of the problem is that most of the standards seem to be designed by control freaks (= think they are gods) who make occasional mistakes (= are human)
16:47 gmcharlt       and shaking my head at the imprecision of its language
16:47 jcamins        the problem?
16:47 wahanui        the problem is, like, that on order is not treated differently than the other not for loan values
16:47 jcamins        problem?
16:47 wahanui        well, problem is its human beings doing it or that grub was nudged to the emergency holographic shell
16:48 gmcharlt       slef: well, that gets back to the original decisions back in the 1960s that ended tieing wedding catalogers to a particular serialization
16:48 * oleonard     hopes grub's mobile holographic emitter can be fixed so he can come out of the emergency shell
16:48 slef           gmcharlt: so the standards are incomplete or occasionally just plain daft, but you can't bugfix them simply without infringing someone's copyright
16:48 slef           oleonard: enjoying the ST:Voyager repeats?
16:48 * chris_n      hands oleonard a rope
16:49 slef           gmcharlt: "wedding catalogers" = people who make lists of wedding gifts?
16:49 oleonard       slef: Only in my head since I'm too cheap to pay to watch them
16:49 * oleonard     doesn't know what to do with the rope
16:49 slef           oleonard: ah, they're currently running free-to-air on CBS over here.
16:50 slef           that reminds me
16:50 slef           off-topic, but does the US have these other CBS channels we get? CBS Action and CBS Drama... didn't see them in any hotels over there
16:51 * oleonard     has never heard of those
16:53 slef           and while I'm being off-topic, the I285 westbound to GA400 northbound slip road dumped me in the left-hand lane... does that happen often on US roads???
16:54 slef           I know you don't exactly have faster-moving lanes closer to the median like in the UK but it seems to behave similar because of the road design
16:56 gmcharlt       slef: it's mostly found in urbanized areas where there may not be enough space to put in a full cloverleaf so that one can merge from the right
16:58 slef           gmcharlt: isn't it just that they didn't want to build another bridge to put you on the right?
16:58 gmcharlt       entirely possible -- roadbuilding funds aren't infinitely, particularly in Atlanta
16:59 slef           anyway, was surprised to get a short merge, not a segregated lane or something... rather more entertaining after 40mins driving in the country than I expected ;-)
17:00 gmcharlt       slef: just consider it part of the excitement that the USA delivers to all tourists ;)
17:01 slef           gmcharlt: who do I write to thank for the tiny and misleading road signs that introduced me to many dead ends? ;-)
17:01 jeff           (SURPRISE!)
17:04 jcamins        slef: in New Jersey there is a wonderful merge on your way to New York- the 1 and 9 exit off of... the Turnpike, I think. You merge onto the Turnpike from the right, and less than a quarter of a mile later, you exit on the left, only to merge into 1 and 9 from the left.
17:04 gmcharlt       slef: if those dead ends happened to abut stores, the local Chamber of Commerce, of course! :)
17:05 slef           unsurprisingly, the US hasn't signed the UN convention on road traffic... http://treaties.un.org/pages/ViewDetailsIII.aspx?&src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XI~B~19&chapter=11&Temp=mtdsg3&lang=en
17:07 senator        slef: some people in the US aren't even sure there are cars and traffic in other countries, and they definitely don't know the UN has an opinion on road traffic
17:07 senator        sad to say
17:07 jcamins        slef: did I mention that there's bumper-to-bumper traffic during your quarter mile dash from the right to the left, then no traffic at all on 1 and 9?
17:07 slef           senator: I got the impression that some people in the US aren't even sure there are cars on the same road as them, based on the driving ;)
17:08 senator        heh
17:08 jcamins        slef: did you drive in India? I was told traffic in Mumbai is similar to traffic in Kabul.
17:09 slef           anyway, I was having fun with London traffic yesterday... only tried to ride on the right once (except for segregated lanes)
17:09 * jeff         just completed a mini-monologue in #evergreen, then saw senator speaking in this window, and for a half-moment thought i had monologued in #koha about Evergreen :-)
17:09 jcamins        But with fewer random checkpoints.
17:09 senator        and jcamins in #evergreen today, man so much confusion
17:09 slef           jcamins: I didn't get to India. Hire us and we'll make more money to go to kohacons ;-)
17:09 mbalmer        heh, evergreen, I like the architecture of that system..
17:09 jeff           senator: exactly :-)
17:10 jcamins        senator: just doing my best to keep everyone's day interesting. :)
17:10 slef           apparently London cyclists are as surprised to have hire bikes keeping up with them as Norfolk drivers are when any bikes keep up
17:12 jcamins        mbalmer: out of curiosity, why did you settle on Koha? I presume since you comment on Evergreen that you looked at both?
17:16 mbalmer        longer story, but: great community, I am part of a group where we decided to go for Koha, installed base of Koha etc.
17:18 mbalmer        coming from informatics, not being a librarian, a system like evergreen is technically better, but using a system like Koha were domain specialists (aka the librarians) can take an active role in the development is for sure a big plus.
17:18 * jcamins      likes POD.
17:18 mbalmer        and having so many coder-librarians makes it a product that is practical.
17:19 mbalmer        even if the chosen technologies are not the best.  at least they are manageable to non-CS folks.
17:20 mbalmer        that is, in all brevity, why...
17:20 jcamins        Just curious. :)
17:45 Barrc          it'll be an Astra transponder.....let me check
17:45 Barrc          .....oops, silly chat windows.......
17:53 rambutan       slef: you need tomtom. I recommend the XXL550
17:59 oleonard       Anyone have anything to add to Bug 8655?
17:59 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8655 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Re-order items on administration page to better match configuration priority
18:02 slef           rambutan: why, can that change the behaviour of other drivers? ;-) cp: cannot create directory `debian/koha-common/usr/share/koha/intranet': No space left on device
18:02 slef           ahem excuse the mispaste
18:04 gmcharlt       Sisyphus: shifting rocks, are you?
18:05 Sisyphus       I'm hoping to avoid a followup on Bug 7613, gmcharlt, but it may be necessary.  I'll open a new ticket, though, if so, just because that one has turned into a total furball.
18:05 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7613 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, ruth, Passed QA , OCLC Connexion Gateway, including extension svc/import_bib
18:06 slef           Sisyphus: gmcharlt; I'm working on related stuff now (which is why I just ran out of space somewhere)
18:08 * jcamins      likes the name of this kingdom: "Osrhoena.
18:08 jcamins        "
18:10 jcamins        Sounds like the sort of place Sisyphus might have lived.
18:11 slef           druthb: why can't you handle both POSTDATA and xml in http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/attachment.cgi?id=10240&action=diff#a/svc/import_bib_sec1 ?
18:12 druthb         self:  Someone cleverer at doing that coding probably could.  You've gotta send several *other* bits though, besides just the record--the match rule, item behavior, overlay-or-create rules, etc, so POSTDATA is something that I *know* will work.
18:13 slef           druthb: I fear your patch breaks the svc API for non-Connexions clients.
18:13 druthb         slef:  And when I did it, I was under a bit of a crunch to Make. It. Work. Right. Now.
18:13 druthb         If other clients are using the older new_bib, then, no, it won't, because I didn't touch that.
18:13 druthb         I was under the impression that import_bib was something *new*.
18:14 slef           I thought it had been in a release - I've at least one client using it and I thought they were on 3.8.x
18:14 sekjal         svc/import_bib was created as part of the OCLC Connexion Gateway development
18:14 druthb         I hadn't been aware of that.
18:15 slef           I guess I should write a test case, but this is rather gnarly to write such a test for, isn't it? Needs a live koha - do we have a place for those tests?
18:15 jcamins        It was included in 3.8 in the eleventh hour.
18:15 jcamins        slef: we do not. I suggest you add a place.
18:15 slef           sekjal: and extended to be a useful replacement for new_bib.
18:16 druthb         needs an OCLC account, too, plus a live Koha, to test this bit all the way through.  And a human person who pushes the button.
18:16 jcamins        If you can come up with a test that doesn't require Connexion, that'd be good.
18:16 slef           druthb: you only need an OCLC account to test bin/connexion_import_daemon.pl, no?
18:16 druthb         Because the likelihood of OCLC messing around with the API in a way that breaks this approaches unity.  They do that.
18:16 sekjal         slef:  yes, the intent was to make as much reusable script as possible...
18:17 sekjal         and now people have gone and used it?  Crazy!
18:17 druthb         "all the way through", yes, slef.  testing just import_bib should be doable without it.
18:17 slef           pretty sure I've a manual test for it, but I didn't see where to put it under t/ so I didn't submit it upstream yet
18:18 slef           anyone know if live-koha-needed tests can go under t/ or if something will try to run them automatically if I put it there?
18:18 jcamins        slef: t/install_dependent?
18:18 slef           jcamins: does that exist?
18:18 jcamins        They need to be in a subdirectory of t.
18:18 jcamins        slef: it will when you send a patch creating it.
18:18 jcamins        :)
18:18 slef           jcamins: phew! you had me worried. Cool.
18:20 jcamins        Hey, could someone who is logged in mark bug 8300 Needs signoff?
18:20 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8300 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Koha should have mechanized testing suite
18:20 slef           I can be logged in RSN
18:22 slef           done
18:22 jcamins        Thanks.
18:23 slef           yw
18:34 gmcharlt       slef: am I correct in thinking that the British Library provides no free way to download its MARC records?
18:34 jcamins        gmcharlt: I believe you can license their records.
18:35 slef           gmcharlt: you can get them as SUTRS, or you may be able to get a free account to obtain them. I may be out-of-date. Library Co-op may know better.
18:36 sekjal         gtg.  see ya, #koha!
18:36 jcamins        gmcharlt: http://www.bl.uk/bibliographic/marcdownload.html
18:39 gmcharlt       jcamins: perfect, thanks!
18:44 slef           "strictly for non-commercial purposes" so depends what you mean by "free"
18:46 tcohen         bye #koha, have a nice weekend!
18:46 slef           tcohen: bye lazy ;-)
18:47 slef           tcohen: have a nice weekend too!
18:47 tcohen         thanks slef
20:04 jcamins        bug 5592
20:04 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5592 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, paul.poulain, NEW , circ rule cloning can be dangerous
20:05 cait           bug 3087
20:05 jcamins        bug 3087
20:05 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3087 normal, P5 - low, ---, frederic, Needs Signoff , Z39.50 server returns usmarc format records for UNIMARC DB
20:05 jcamins        Ah.
20:43 wajasu         jcamins_away: did you say i needed to signoff  bug 8622 with your repo?  i see kyle tested 1 & 2.  Am I to test Kyle's patch, or one you have?
20:43 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8622 major, P3, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Koha themes broken
21:22 jcamins_away   wajasu: no, bug 8622 can be tested using the patches on the bug.
21:22 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8622 major, P3, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Koha themes broken
21:23 jcamins_away   The new theme is in my repo.
22:45 mtj            wajasu, re: 8622 kyle's patch is a sign-off of jcamin's patch, ie: they are identical, afaik...
22:46 jcamins        mtj: wajasu was wondering about my instructions about the theme patches.
22:47 mtj            aaah, ignore my comment  then :)
22:50 mtj            jcamins++, nice patch too!
22:52 mtj            i think the asset stuff  (images,css) should ultimately be removed from the language dirs completely
22:53 mtj            that would be a nice future patch...
22:54 jcamins        mtj: did you see the bugs I reported?
22:54 jcamins        Well, filed.
22:55 mtj            hmm, i may have missed them :/
22:55 * mtj          looks...
22:56 mtj            ok, gimme a clue :)
23:00 jcamins        Sorry, I was making dinner.
23:00 jcamins        Bug 8624.
23:00 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8624 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , famfamfam should be outside theme directory
23:00 jcamins        Bug 8623.
23:00 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8623 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Signed Off , Javascript libraries should be outside theme directories
23:00 jcamins        Bug 8625?
23:00 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8625 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, RESOLVED DUPLICATE, C4::Output version 3.02 required--this is only version
23:00 wajasu         ok. i here.
23:00 jcamins        No, not bug 8625.
23:01 mtj            jcamins, as usual, you're one step ahead of me :)
23:01 jcamins        Also bug 4048, though oleonard decided he preferred lots of little bugs.
23:01 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4048 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, RESOLVED DUPLICATE, CSS and JS libs must be outside of translated paths
23:03 mtj            awesome, awesome stuff
23:07 mtj            jcamins, ill try and qa some of these new patches, realsoon
23:07 jcamins        :)
23:08 jcamins        Bug 8209 is pretty good for QA too. :)
23:08 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8209 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Signed Off , "Did you mean?" suggestions based on authorities
23:09 jcamins        Oh, also bug 2060 and bug 7475.
23:09 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2060 enhancement, P3, ---, jcamins, Signed Off , Ability to import Authorities from Staff Client
23:09 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7475 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , Option to overlay authorities
23:13 wajasu         i will work on 8622.   8623 is signed off. 4048  is a dup. 8209 is signed off.
23:14 jcamins        wajasu: those were suggestions for mtj to QA.
23:14 mtj            thanks for your help, wajasu
23:15 wajasu         oh.
23:16 jcamins        This dal is missing something.
23:21 wajasu         jcamins: is there a specific theme in your repo i should test?
23:26 jcamins        wajasu: there are instructions on the bug.
23:26 jcamins        @query mobile theme
23:26 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8633 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, In Discussion , Translate script hardcoded to prog template
23:26 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8597 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fcapovilla, Needs Signoff , New theme for the OPAC with a mobile view
23:26 jcamins        Bug 8597.
23:26 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8597 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fcapovilla, Needs Signoff , New theme for the OPAC with a mobile view
23:29 wajasu         i see
23:30 mtj            meh i've hit some git-apply problems for patch on 8623
23:31 mtj            i'd like to know how to best handle this situ
23:31 mtj            3way merge gives this error...
23:31 mtj            fatal: sha1 information is lacking or useless (C4/Templates.pm).
23:31 mtj            Repository lacks necessary blobs to fall back on 3-way merge.
23:31 mtj            Cannot fall back to three-way merge.
23:32 mtj            .
23:32 jcamins        mtj: missing one of the dependencies.
23:32 mtj            the frustrating this is, the patch contains a 1 line change to C4/Templates.pm
23:32 mtj            s/this/thing/
23:33 mtj            so, its a patch git *shoudl* be able to handle ok-ish….
23:33 mtj            at least apply the change will some <<< === >>>> markers, so i can edit /correct later, etc..
23:34 jcamins_away   Weird.
23:35 jcamins_away   And it worked perfectly for me.
23:35 wajasu         i see.  i need to apply 8622. test it.  signoff.   then apply bug_8597_theme, test it, and sign off on it.
23:35 jcamins_away   Right.
23:35 mtj            jcamins_away, this is on a new koha repo, too?!
23:35 jcamins_away   bug_8597_theme already contains all its dependencies.
23:35 jcamins_away   mtj: just my github.
23:36 mtj            no, i tested the patch on *my* new repo
23:36 jcamins_away   mtj: oh.
23:58 wajasu         jcamins: i've got 8622 installed. and am moving around the site.  i searched for a book. clicked on "Checkout history" tab on the left side, which i happen to have 3 books listed.  the word PreviNext are ON TOP of the FIRST and LAST icons.
23:59 wajasu         in the staff interface
23:59 wajasu         navigation widgets.
23:59 wajasu         is that the sort of thing i should be looking for in 8622 or is that an unrelated issue?