Time  Nick         Message
23:21 jcamins      Good luck.
23:21 jcamins      You're welcome.
23:20 martian523   thanks
23:20 martian523   haha
23:20 jcamins      ^^ there you go. :)
23:20 wahanui      logs is http://irc.koha-community.org/irclog/koha/
23:20 jcamins      logs?
23:20 jcamins      Actually, silly question.
23:20 martian523   yes
23:20 jcamins      You're using mibbit?
23:20 martian523   is there a way to save this chat?
23:19 jcamins      Work that I'm getting paid to do has to come first. :/
23:19 jcamins      If I ever have a chance, I hope to work on this, but, as I said, don't count on it being any time soon.
23:19 jcamins      Good luck.
23:19 martian523   i think this is one step closer
23:18 martian523   i'll see if he understands
23:18 martian523   thanks
23:18 jcamins      Those files are self-documenting to the extent that they are documented.
23:18 jcamins      I've pretty much finished.
23:18 jcamins      ^^ that page is an important one to read.
23:18 martian523   although i have no idea what you're talking about, but keep going, i'm sure he'll understand
23:18 wahanui      it has been said that git is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
23:18 jcamins      git?
23:17 jcamins      Oh, and he needs to use git for development.
23:17 jcamins      In order to not lose your changes at the first upgrade you do, you'll want to modify those second two, and submit the change back to the community.
23:17 martian523   i'll copy this whole chat so he can read it
23:17 jcamins      The first file is generated from the second two.
23:16 martian523   ok
23:16 martian523   wok
23:16 jcamins      There are three files that will be involved: etc/zebradb/marc_defs/marc21/biblios/biblio-zebra-indexdefs.xsl etc/zebradb/marc_defs/marc21/biblios/biblio-koha-indexdefs.xsl and etc/zebradb/xsl/koha-indexdefs-to-zebra.xsl
23:16 jcamins      I can tell you which files you're going to need to modify, but explaining exactly how it works goes beyond what I can do.
23:15 martian523   well, actually, we have someone hired especially to work on koha
23:15 martian523   talking about budget, that's a no
23:14 jcamins      Personally, I would recommend you see if you can find money in the budget to hire someone to do the development.
23:14 martian523   so what should i suggest my IT to do?
23:12 jcamins      Which is what open source is about, really: if it doesn't work for you, you can make it work.
23:12 jcamins      On the other, it's now possible to implement in Koha in a straightforward way.
23:11 jcamins      On the one hand, it'd take a decent amount of time to do.
23:11 jcamins      (helpful, huh?)
23:11 jcamins      Well... yes and no?
23:10 martian523   so i guess it's pretty difficult
23:10 jcamins      (comfortable doing it)
23:10 jcamins      Or, if your IT department is comfortable, they can do it themselves.
23:10 jcamins      This is where the open source nature of Koha comes in: you can easily hire someone to add this ability to Koha.
23:09 jcamins      In this case, they're using Worldcat.
23:09 jcamins      Right. Because someone paid for that ILS to have that feature.
23:09 jcamins      Those that do mostly only search transliterations anyway.
23:09 jcamins      There aren't many Koha libraries using original script.
23:09 martian523   however, they can search both fields, whereas koha cannot
23:08 martian523   as i mentioned earlier this morning, i import marc from fuller, their record has both 245 and 880
23:07 martian523   i don't understand how other libraries do it
23:06 martian523   yes, the newly downloaded marc
23:06 jcamins      In fact, the migrated records are not a problem, it's the non-migrated records that are a problem.
23:06 jcamins      No, my suggestion to write a script was based on the assumption that the problem was the records you had migrated.
23:05 martian523   i mean, if it requires a script, i can ask the IT person to write it if he understands what i'm saying
23:05 jcamins      Basically, you need indexing to handle the 880s.
23:05 jcamins      Unfortunately, this greatly curtails your options.
23:04 martian523   ok
23:04 jcamins      So, let's say "a lot."
23:04 martian523   plus for the migrated books, we will eventually want to import the correct marc from targets
23:03 jcamins      martian523: also, my suggestion to write a script to change the records won't help at all.
23:02 jcamins      martian523: how many books do you add in a month?
23:02 martian523   these correct marcs have the correct 245, 240, 260, etc. fields and 880 fields
23:01 jcamins      JesseM: I think you might be able to place holds on lost items if you have that set to allow.
23:01 JesseM       Thats what I was just going to ask you
23:01 jcamins      I am pondering your situation.
23:01 martian523   thanks
23:01 jcamins      martian523: yup.
23:01 jcamins      JesseM: actually, I was thinking about AllowHoldsOnDamagedItems.
23:01 martian523   do you understand where i'm trying to go?
23:00 martian523   those marc records are actually correct ones compare to our migrated records
23:00 * jcamins    tries again.
23:00 jcamins      No, not lost.
23:00 martian523   however, for new titles, we're trying to save time and download marc records from targets
22:59 JesseM       thx Jared
22:59 jcamins      That was supposed to be a period not a question mark.
22:59 jcamins      Do a search for it?
22:59 JesseM       or is that possible at all
22:59 martian523   we migrated about 20000 titles to koha, half of them are chinese titles, those are ok,
22:59 jcamins      JesseM: there's a syspref for that. Something about lost.
22:58 JesseM       I have a question. How do we set Koha so staff and patrons can place holds on lost items?
22:58 martian523   well, let me tell you what we have now
22:57 jcamins      How many records do you have?
22:57 jcamins      Actually, let me back up.
22:57 jcamins      So, here are your options:
22:57 jcamins      No problem.
22:57 martian523   hahaha so sorry
22:57 jcamins      martian523: it did cross my mind, but since you were clearly trying, I tried not to be too short with you.
22:56 martian523   =)
22:56 martian523   sorry, all along you thought i was IT, you must have thought i was a stupid IT person. )
22:56 martian523   IT team is also new to koha
22:55 jcamins      That changes my advice somewhat.
22:55 martian523   trying to help the IT team to solve issues
22:55 martian523   it's actually the other way, i'm the librarian
22:54 * jcamins    thought you were the IT person in a library without a librarian.
22:54 * jcamins    wasn't aware of that, actually.
22:54 martian523   it would help me if you can give me some advice or a link to a help page
22:54 jcamins      Ah.
22:53 martian523   how do you do that?  as you can see i'm not an IT person
22:53 jcamins      Write a script to do it for you.
22:53 jcamins      Don't do it manually.
22:53 jcamins      Manually?
22:53 jcamins      And some of my clients have records with vernacular scripts, so it's possible one day one of them will be interested in paying for the time it would take me to implement it.
22:52 martian523   instead of replacing 245 fields with 880 fields manually
22:52 jcamins      It certainly would.
22:51 martian523   but it would super help for non english titles
22:51 martian523   i see, thank you
22:51 jcamins      And unfortunately, when I say "it's easy to do!" I don't actually mean "I could be done in time for dinner." ;)
22:50 jcamins      (the problem is one of time... several people would be capable of implementing that feature, but we all need to make sure that we're spending our time on the projects that pay best)
22:50 martian523   ok....
22:49 jcamins      At some point there will be, but not right now.
22:48 martian523   is there a way for koha to search for both 245 fields and 880 fields
22:48 martian523   hi again
22:38 jcamins      Yay!
22:38 drojf        jcamins++ # that helped
22:34 drojf        ah, cool. thanks
22:33 jcamins      You need use lib("/home/drojf/kohaclone/installer");
22:33 jcamins      It's a problem with your plackup script.
22:33 jcamins      installer
22:32 drojf        in master that is
22:32 drojf        where is InstallAuth.pm supposed to be? it is not found by plack
22:23 tweetbot`    [off] twitter: @kohails: "#kohails  Koha Newsletter: Volume 3, Issue 7: July 2012 http://t.co/HCceaWz3"
21:54 rangi        200 of them this will take a while
21:52 rangi        Greece first as always
21:52 rangi        Here comes the countries
21:48 jcamins      It's a tasty American thing.
21:48 rangi        It's a uniquely American thing
21:48 rangi        Could be
21:47 jcamins      I thought it was the spicy marinade.
21:47 rangi        Hmm isn't the cheese what makes it buffalo?
21:46 jcamins      Thoughts?
21:45 * jcamins    is trying to decide how critical blue cheese is to buffalo tofu.
21:44 rangi        It's been pretty fun watch
21:44 jcamins      Heh.
21:44 rangi        James bond was there earlier too
21:43 rangi        Yep he was playing keyboard for chariots of fire
21:42 jcamins_away Mr. Bean?
21:42 rangi        Did u see Mr bean?
21:11 wizzyrea     awesome.
21:11 wizzyrea     haha tim berners-lee was just in the olympic opening ceremonies
21:01 cait         night #koha :)
20:43 wizzyrea     :D
20:37 gmc_in_exile gmcharlt: at last, you're back
20:33 huginn       cait: Quote #134: "<cait> birthday wishes go over crazy bugs :)" (added by gmcharlt at 06:49 PM, May 20, 2011)
20:33 cait         @quote random
20:32 huginn       cait: I've exhausted my database of quotes
20:32 cait         @quite random
20:32 wahanui      somebody said jcamins was A-Grade developper on Koha willing to rewrite it from top to bottom. Good Luck jcamins
20:32 gmc_in_exile jcamins?
20:32 libsysguy    hehe
20:31 wahanui      i already had it that way, huginn.
20:31 huginn       gmc_in_exile: Quote #150: "<libsysguy> jcamins is the wizard that forges queries in the deep fires of zebra" (added by wizzyrea at 03:07 PM, August 30, 2011)
20:31 gmc_in_exile @quote random
20:29 wizzyrea     cool
20:29 wizzyrea     ah it's ok
20:29 gmc_in_exile different datacenter
20:29 * wizzyrea   wonders about bugzilla
20:29 wizzyrea     noooo
20:29 gmc_in_exile affecting huginn (and my IRC proxy)
20:28 wizzyrea     oh no
20:28 gmc_in_exile some linodes in their Atlanta data center are having network connectivity issues
20:28 cait         gmc_in_exile: oh?
20:28 wizzyrea     lol
20:26 wizzyrea     od.
20:12 cait         I am not sure too, but maybe worth a test? or a look at the code
20:10 trea         yea, i'm wondering if it requires one defined
20:09 cait         not sure, maybe give it the allowed ip addresses?
20:08 trea         is there anything required to enable ILS-DI in koha besides setting the ILS-DI syspref to "Enable" ?
20:03 * oleonard   waves good-weekend to #koha
19:57 cait         the best one?
19:57 cait         hm
19:54 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6209 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, In Discussion , Standardize on one javascript library for client-side form validation
19:54 * oleonard   would like someone to please pick the winner of Bug 6209
19:35 cait         bye jcamins_away
19:33 jcamins      I'll be back later, I suspect.
19:32 * jcamins    calls it a day.
19:32 cait         heh
19:31 oleonard     whip and cookies: http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID16783/images/resized_Whip_cream_cookie.JPG
19:31 libsysguy    heh
19:31 cait         lol
19:30 liw          they need to have a shower firswt
19:30 libsysguy    :'(
19:30 libsysguy    stinking Americans get no cookies
19:30 libsysguy    yeah carrots and sticks
19:30 cait         leo suggests it's  the carrot and the stick in english?
19:29 libsysguy    :p
19:29 libsysguy    haha i did call "use strict"
19:29 cait         i think expressing a mix of being nice and being strict works best
19:28 cait         it's a saying in german
19:28 libsysguy    sounds kinky
19:28 cait         whip and cookies.
19:28 cait         whip?
19:28 cait         hm
19:28 libsysguy    im not sure cookies would appease this monster cait
19:27 cait         libsysguy: give it cookies?
19:25 libsysguy    its a beast
19:25 * libsysguy  is already rewriting the test this thing
19:25 jcamins      If code coverage isn't darn close to 100%, that's bad.
19:24 jcamins      Biiiig issue.
19:24 jcamins      Not including tests for all functionality, on the other hand, is an issue.
19:24 jcamins      libsysguy: you probably won't get dinged by QA for a single oversight in where you put POD.
19:24 libsysguy    actually im getting my new book "Perl best practices" in today
19:23 libsysguy    heh yayy documentation
19:23 libsysguy    but that means I'll have to go fix Koha::Calendar :-/
19:23 jcamins      Also to cure insomnia. :)
19:23 jcamins      Please refer to TAOCP for justification. :P
19:23 libsysguy    thats the way I like it
19:23 libsysguy    ok
19:23 jcamins      Keep the POD as close to what it documents as possible.
19:22 libsysguy    for POD documentation, is it better to put the POD above the function or at the bottom of the file?
19:13 jcamins      Actually, probably the version of Perl in Lenny is too old.
19:11 liw          jcamins, both lenny and etch are quite old by now, so I'd be a bit surprised if Koha .debs installed on them
19:07 cait         but it's really cool :)
19:06 cait         mainly happening on the translate list :)
19:01 jcamins      oleonard: Karam Qubsi has taken the initiative to make the manual translatable.
19:00 oleonard     ?
19:00 cait         Karam++ :)
18:59 jcamins      oleonard: yup.
18:59 cait         :)
18:58 oleonard     Good for them
18:57 * oleonard   didn't know schuster's library had gone independent
18:57 jcamins      martian523: regardless how you do this, it is going to take some programming. My recommendation would be to use vernacular script directly in 245 (etc.), so that everything remains consistent.
18:54 jcamins      martian523: then don't use 880s.
18:54 martian523   well, since all patrons for my library are chinese, they would prefer to read and search everything in chinese
18:54 jcamins      Agreed.
18:53 cait         using 245 directly will save you headache
18:53 cait         and as a short title on other pages in Koha
18:53 jcamins      You could modify it to do that, but I wouldn't recommend it.
18:53 cait         and if you get the opac deatail and staff results right, it will still be 245 showing up in the notices
18:53 cait         in the fuller catalog? search is really the harder part
18:53 cait         hae you tested some searches ?
18:52 martian523   would that be a super big project
18:52 cait         martian523: you can do that, newer versions make it even easier
18:52 jcamins      martian523: they had to customize their OPAC.
18:52 martian523   so i thought there's a way in koha that can show 880 fields instead of 245 fields
18:51 martian523   however, other libraries, let's say fuller seminary library, their marc view for 245 is transliteration, 880 in native character, but the title shown on library catalog is in the native language
18:50 jcamins      martian523: to do that you will need a script to transfer the data from 880 to 245.
18:50 cait         ah :)
18:49 cait         but chinese also reads left to right, so it would not be bad for display at least
18:49 jcamins      No, you *should* catalog directly into 245.
18:49 cait         but jcamins will tell you perhaps that it's wrong doing that, I am not sure :)
18:49 martian523   I would like the library catalog to show the chinese characters instead of the transliteration
18:49 cait         I think for search and if you don't do transliterations at all that would work
18:49 cait         martian523: what you could also do is catalog in  245 directly...
18:48 cait         for hfjs we copy information into specific 9xx fields to make the indexing a bit smarter with grs
18:48 martian523   let's say, the title is in chinese, however, in marc 245 is the transliteration, the actual chinese title is in 880 field
18:48 cait         true
18:48 cait         because only indexing 880 will throw all information together
18:48 jcamins      You'd need DOM+ICU.
18:48 cait         you will have to use dom indexing to make it work right
18:47 cait         the problem is the indexing
18:47 cait         slef: it could display instead, yes, that's probably not so hard even
18:47 jcamins      slef: massive job.
18:46 slef         cait: koha could show 880 instead of 245 if you edit xslt, couldn't it? And you'd need to update the indexing and so on... sounds like a big job
18:45 jcamins      martian523: that is not possible.
18:45 martian523   am i making sense here, sorry if i'm not
18:45 martian523   what i mean is i want the native characters to show in catalog instead of what's shown on marc
18:45 cait         and it will only work in xslt displays of staff and opac so far
18:44 cait         if you download the record as marc you can see how it's cataloged
18:44 * mtompset   waves
18:44 cait         [off] https://hfjs.bsz-bw.de/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=30613
18:44 cait         so if you have a 880 for 245 in hebrew and a  245 with the transliteration, both show
18:44 martian523   instead of manually copy and pasting 880 fields to 245, 250...etc.
18:43 cait         besides
18:43 cait         but not instead
18:43 cait         martian523: koha does show 880 fields
18:43 mtompset     Have a great day (24 hour period), folks.
18:43 martian523   can koha show tag 880 instead of 245?
18:43 mtompset     Or sleep, because the Mountain Dew has worn off?
18:42 martian523   hi, i have question about marc display
18:42 mtompset     Well, I don't know... should I stay awake for another 1:20 to watch opening ceremonies?
18:40 limon        https://secure.flickr.com/photos/learningspacetoolkit/   <also a couple from Edinburgh>
18:40 slef         thanks
18:40 cait         in one of our libraries I have added more values, pretty much everything >0 works the same I think - but again, not sure of hidden features
18:40 slef         cait: yeah I think I'll not rely on it.
18:39 limon        The Missouri State Library has taken note of some images of a library in Calgary, and passed the link to me knowing my interest.
18:39 jcamins      cait: yeah, you're right. I was thinking of not for loan and on order, which mean the same thing no matter what text you put in.
18:38 mtompset     Yes.
18:38 cait         night Oak :)
18:38 Oak          night guys. night cait.
18:38 cait         I mean you can't be sure sadly
18:38 cait         but it's an optional value at installation... so was thinking that libraries could have used it for something else
18:38 limon        mtompset: do I remember that you are from Canada?
18:38 jcamins      True.
18:38 cait         but you never know with Koha :)
18:38 wahanui      somebody said not for loan was unset
18:38 jcamins      And not for loan.
18:38 jcamins      But on order.
18:38 jcamins      Ah, yeah, not staff collection.
18:38 cait         I think only on order -1 has some
18:37 cait         but I might be wrong
18:37 cait         I am not aware on any functionality there
18:37 cait         staff collection?
18:37 jcamins      cait: I'm pretty sure it's already hardcoded.
18:36 cait         slef: sys pref or the like
18:36 limon        allll righy. disregard previous query
18:36 cait         slef: maybe make it configurable? the numeric value to be used for feature x?
18:36 cait         slef: Ithink you can not really rely on it :(
18:35 * mtompset   grins.
18:35 wahanui      mtompset: i haven't a clue
18:35 mtompset     wahanui: are you intelligent?
18:35 limon        is wahanui gaining some modest measure of intelligence?
18:34 mtompset     ^until^under.
18:34 mtompset     I suppose I'll just disallow --list-dir, --dist, and --release until RPM versions.
18:33 mtompset     I mean this afternoon.
18:32 mtompset     maybe tomorrow afternoon.
18:32 wahanui      slef: sorry...
18:32 slef         wahanui: pervert!
18:32 jcamins      mtompset: go for it!
18:32 wahanui      I like *your* figure
18:32 slef         wahanui: figures
18:32 wahanui      no idea, slef
18:32 slef         wahanui: are you OK?
18:32 mtompset     ooooh. even nicer, slef
18:32 slef         I wonder what wahanui liked there.
18:31 mtompset     I'm almost tempted to try to adapt the script for rpm-based OS' now. :)
18:31 wahanui      slef: that doesn't look right
18:31 slef         mtompset: or change | sed -e 's#/#:#' to | sed -e 's#/#:#;s/[[:space:]]//g'
18:30 slef         it looks to me like itemtypes.notforloan is only checked if C4::Context->preference('item-level_itypes') is set :-/ but I'll just check CanBookBeIssued to make sure
18:30 mtompset     see? Isn't that nice?
18:30 mtompset     perl-Pod-Simple           :usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/Pod/Simple.pm
18:30 mtompset     and we're cooking with gas!
18:29 mtompset     remove the whitespace with a "tr -d' '" and "tr -d'{tab}'"
18:28 mtompset     for i in `rpm -qa`; do rpm -q --filesbypkg $i | grep "\.pm$" | sed -e 's#/#:#'; done
18:27 mtompset     oh that works splendidly!
18:25 jcamins      Otherwise, 's#\t/#\t:#'
18:25 mtompset     blah-blah is the package name.
18:25 mtompset     it won't
18:25 jcamins      Right.
18:25 slef         that seems good
18:25 slef         as long as you know blah-blah will never contain /
18:25 jcamins      I'd use sed -e 's#/#:#'
18:22 mtompset     blah-blah             :usr/...
18:22 mtompset     and turn it into:
18:22 jcamins      I don't know. That's how sed works.
18:22 mtompset     blah-blah               /usr/.....
18:22 mtompset     I want to take something like:
18:21 mtompset     is there a way to tell tr to only translate the FIRST character that matches and then stop?
18:18 slef         how standardised are Authorized values? Can I rely on NOT_LOAN = 2 meaning staff collection, for example?
18:11 huginn       slef: unknown tag 952
18:11 wahanui      The 952 field is used by Koha to store item data in MARC21 and is described at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Holdings_data_fields_%289xx%29
18:11 slef         @marc 952
18:10 mtompset     will help me decide which method to use. :)
18:10 mtompset     so, I think a simple 'which apt-get'
18:10 mtompset     and RPM-based folks aren't going to install apt-get (if they are smart)
18:09 jcamins      dcook would certainly be grateful.
18:08 jcamins      This is not nearly as important as the deb-based script, but it'd be cool to have.
18:08 mtompset     But I think I might be able to hack something together.
18:08 mtompset     I'd have to loop through rpm -qa
18:08 jcamins      Yay!
18:07 mtompset     rpm -q --filesbypkg sed-4.1.5-8.el5
18:05 jcamins      I don't think RPMs have consistent package names.
18:05 limon        http://paste.koha-community.org/65   (does that link work?)
18:03 mtompset     yes, but I need an equivalent to apt-file list
17:56 jcamins      mtompset: yum provides seems to be equivalent to apt-file find
17:56 jcamins      slef: that is good!
17:56 slef         but I rarely use rpm-based systems now (yippee! At last we are moving on!)
17:55 slef         yeah you probably want to be looking at yum not rpm
17:55 pastebot     "mtompset" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "How we hunt in debian-systems" (30 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/64
17:55 wahanui      i heard paste was found at http://paste.koha-community.org
17:55 mtompset     paste?
17:55 mtompset     paste bot?
17:54 jcamins      limon: the goal is to generate the dependency list, given a list of Perl modules that are needed.
17:53 limon        ?
17:53 limon        http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-do-i-find-what-dependencies-a-rpm-file-has/
17:53 mtompset     apt-file find
17:53 mtompset     well... library name BLAH::Blah
17:53 limon        rpm -qpR {.rpm-file}
17:52 jcamins      limon: the problem is we want to find a package that hasn't been installed yet on the basis of a file name.
17:52 * jcamins    will let you test it on  your CentOS box.
17:52 limon        rpm -qa | grep somepkg
17:52 jcamins      Or yum provides
17:50 jcamins      Oh, no, maybe I'm wrong.
17:50 jcamins      That only tells you if the file has already been installed, I think.
17:49 jcamins      No, that won't work.
17:49 mtompset     we could make the script truly generic.
17:49 mtompset     if we could come up with equivalent rpm-based commands...
17:49 jcamins      rpm -qf?
17:48 mtompset     is there an apt-file for it...
17:48 mtompset     I have access to a CentOS box...
17:48 mtompset     Actually, that's a good question...
17:48 jcamins      slef: it'd be nice to be able to offer a list of dependencies for RPM-based distros, but I'm not sure there is an equivalent.
17:48 slef         mtompset: on debian-derived ones, for which I commend you.
17:47 mtompset     slef: this script is intended to help ELIMINATE the use of CPAN.
17:47 slef         but hey if it's rpm-based, their disk is chaos anyway ;)
17:47 mtompset     True.
17:47 jcamins      mtompset: the script won't work with non-apt distros.
17:47 slef         they splat their disk with cpan, probably :-/
17:46 mtompset     But what other OS'?
17:46 mtompset     for ubuntu and debian.
17:46 jcamins      mtompset: my thought is it will be run prior to any release, so that any tarball will include up-to-date dependency lists.
17:45 mtompset     Except the dpkg command will. :)
17:45 mtompset     No, you don't.
17:45 mtompset     Yes, this generates things to add to the end of existing files as dependencies increase.
17:45 jcamins      I guess the problem is that you don't know *which* packages you're missing using those files.
17:44 mtompset     I know we install for Ubuntu.
17:44 jcamins      slef: but we'll have the generated files and instructions to use them.
17:44 mtompset     Installing from .tar.gz will.
17:44 mtompset     Yes.
17:44 slef         they will if they install from tar.gz
17:44 mtompset     well, I know we prefer Debian.
17:43 jcamins      I suppose we could also include it in install_misc, if you think end users are likely to need it.
17:42 jcamins      This is a script that RMaints and RMs will want to run frequently.
17:42 jcamins      mtompset: that's my thought.
17:41 mtompset     where is this going again? release tools?
17:40 mtompset     found it... thanks.
17:40 jcamins      There's a page on the wiki with instructions.
17:40 jcamins      You click on "Details," and then click a few more times.
17:40 jcamins      I don't remember exactly how.
17:39 jcamins      No, that's not the link.
17:39 wahanui      well, Bugs is found at http://bugs.koha-community.org. Please fix any bugs you find. :) or reporting them is helpful, too.
17:39 jcamins      Bugs?
17:39 jcamins      No, that's not the link.
17:39 wahanui      bugzilla is found at http://bugs.koha-community.org
17:39 jcamins      bugzilla?
17:39 mtompset     How do you obsolete an attachment without adding one?
17:37 jcamins      mtompset: I saw. :)
17:36 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8517 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Script to automatically generate package lists
17:36 mtompset     Still attaching script... however, bug 8517, jcamins
17:30 huginn       slef: The operation succeeded.
17:30 slef         @later tell rangi would you like to fix the print message in http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=installer/data/mysql/updatedatabase.pl;h=2d4d2ab2848baf033d38908012129ac0e4cb5885;hb=3.8.x#l5242 without comment or shall I open a brown-paper-bag bug? ;)
17:29 wahanui      slef: I forgot 3.8.x
17:29 slef         wahanui: forget 3.8.x
17:29 wahanui      it has been said that 3.8.x is known to be unstable.
17:29 slef         3.8.x?
17:28 slef         3.8.x RMaint?
17:27 wahanui      RMaint are rangi and jcamins
17:27 slef         RMaint?
17:25 jcamins      http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/
17:25 mtompset     I want to put it in the comments.
17:25 jcamins      Uhhh...
17:25 mtompset     What was that sources.list url you found, jcamins?
17:24 mtompset     Yes, that's true.
17:24 slef         mtompset: if it's not, we're dead six ways.
17:24 mtompset     (forgive any typos in the name)
17:24 mtompset     It is based on the assumption that C4::Install::PerlDependencies.pm is up to date and correct. :)
17:23 mtompset     I'm about to post a nice script. :)
17:23 slef         mtompset: debian.packages should be removed once there is some script to run to tell people which packages to install (maybe what's used to generate debian/control ?)
17:22 * slef       reads scrollback
17:21 slef         3.6 maybe should continue to care for a few months, as it'll have some users on lenny still (because some people won't upgrade during the academic year)
17:21 mtompset     I was thinking 3.6
17:21 mtompset     I wasn't thinking 3.8 for lenny.
17:20 slef         not on 3.8+ anyway
17:20 jcamins      slef: yeah, that was my thought, too.
17:20 jcamins      cait: well, there goes that idea.
17:20 slef         jcamins: http://www.debian.org/releases/lenny says that is discontinued too, so I don't think there's any reason to worry about them.
17:20 cait         we didn't change much in serials
17:20 cait         jcamins: I think it has always worked that way
17:20 * mtompset   cheers, "My --full=0 and --full=1 output matches as expected!"
17:19 slef         sysprefs not options
17:19 jcamins      Maybe that's not in LLAK, or something?
17:19 slef         I think it's easy to break with options. I've a bug report about it somewhere in the co-op which I need to check and maybe send on.
17:19 cait         ok, so it's not only me
17:19 cait         must be something else?
17:19 cait         so I am confused that they say both is missing :(
17:19 jcamins      cait: as far as I know it does, and we do.
17:18 cait         yep
17:18 jcamins      cait: I have no idea.
17:18 cait         thought it did calculate dates and also that we did have a quarterly pattern
17:18 slef         cait: is that about serials?
17:18 jcamins      slef: Lenny=5, Etch=4.
17:18 slef         one is 4.0 and can be ignored, not sure how else
17:18 cait         ?
17:18 cait         what does date in predictions mean
17:18 cait         reading the mail on the list
17:18 cait         hm
17:18 slef         jcamins: what numbers are lenny/etch?
17:18 jcamins      mtompset: it should probably be removed.
17:17 mtompset     Also, I was wondering... since it really doesn't make sense to check the debian.packages file (there is the koha-common package after all), will it be removed? or perhaps renamed for historical purposes (Lenny/Etch)?
17:13 jcamins      True.
17:13 mtompset     though, once this script is working properly... you could tell easily. ;)
17:12 jcamins      liw: is it fair to say that there is no reason to worry about whether Koha would install on Lenny or Etch?
17:11 jcamins      mtompset: I think they overlap by a few years, but the emphasis is on stability.
17:11 cait         hi mtompset
17:11 mtompset     Hi, cait
17:11 * cait       waves
17:11 mtompset     So debian is really focused on a nice clean, stable install, rather than something that just works, even if it is the wrong way.
17:10 jcamins      mtompset: security updates for Debian Lenny (5) were discontinued on February 6, 2012.
17:09 jcamins      SJeffery: yeah, I sent her a message off-list.
17:09 jcamins      liw would know for sure.
17:09 SJeffery     There's an academic library looking for info on Koha on the ACAT mailing list if anyone wants to take a shot.
17:09 jcamins      mtompset: I believe so.
17:09 jcamins      mtompset: I suppose it might be a good idea to produce a list for Lenny (5.0) too, though I don't think anyone has tried installing Koha on Lenny since 3.2.
17:09 mtompset     So basically, only one stable debian is active at a time?
17:08 jcamins      mtompset: oh yes.
17:08 mtompset     jcamins: I was wondering... Is debian 4.0.x unsupported now?
17:07 * oleonard   goes to get his ears lowered
16:48 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7716 enhancement, P3, ---, mjr, ASSIGNED , Statistical/analytic item type
16:48 jcamins      Bug 7716
16:47 jcamins      I will look into it this weekend.
16:47 jcamins      Hm, yeah, nothing unusual about that.
16:47 pastebot     "nengard" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "my opacnav" (6 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/62
16:46 nengard      it's a basic list
16:46 * jcamins    isn't sure what would make it "unusual." ;)
16:46 nengard      not that i see
16:46 jcamins      nengard: anything unusual about it?
16:46 nengard      jcamins i have html in my opav nav
16:45 slef         jcamins: that's called implied consent and it's dodgy but legal in the UK at the moment... at least until someone bothers to appeal to the European courts
16:44 jcamins      slef: yes.
16:44 slef         does anyone else type into the wrong text box on bugzilla and save a useless search named after the search terms you wanted to try next?
16:44 jcamins      slef: here's how library catalogs are dealing with the cookie law: "We use cookies on this website. By continuing to use this site without changing your cookie settings, you agree that you are happy to accept our cookies and for us to access these on your device. Find out more about how we use cookies and how to change your cookie settings."
16:40 mtompset     Shoot! found another bug... good thing it's a coding fest. :)
16:38 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8204 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Signed Off , Authority viewer in OPAC ugly, unfriendly, and mostly useless
16:38 jcamins      (re: bug 8204)
16:38 jcamins      OPACNav or the other one(s)?
16:38 jcamins      nengard: do you have anything special in any of your sidebar prefs?
16:25 slef         and rebase
16:25 slef         I do, far too often :-/
16:24 jcamins      Yup. If you want to move a single commit, you could use git cherry-pick.
16:24 slef         I was looking around commit --amend which was the wrong place
16:24 slef         I was sure there was one but wasn't seeing it :-/
16:23 slef         thanks!
16:23 oleonard     git branch -m <new name>
16:23 slef         OTTOTH is Off The Top Of My Head
16:23 jcamins      git branch -m?
16:23 wahanui      no idea, slef
16:23 slef         wahanui: OTTOMH?
16:23 slef         OTTOMH?
16:23 slef         OTTOTH is Off The Top Of Their Head
16:22 slef         anyone know an easy way to rename a git branch OTTOTH?
16:21 gaetan_B     bye !
16:21 slef         oleonard: yeah... the Olympics being in London was part of the reason kohacon12 was in Edinburgh. Quite a few London hotels and venues were closed for refurbishment, creating a supply shortage, so increased prices.
16:20 slef         although that's quite sympathetic... I understand there are actually 18000 army troops deployed now
16:20 * oleonard   wonders why any city would want to have the Olympics
16:19 slef         security, not seconds
16:19 slef         http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18866153 if anyone hasn't seen the olympic seconds scandal
16:13 wizzyrea     eeeks
16:13 wizzyrea     4 hours!
16:10 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8516 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Add a "Street Address" search option to the patrons search
16:10 slef         patch submitted for bug 8516
16:08 slef         mtompset: not yet. Maybe in the morning if I get this deployment finished (so probably not :( )
16:08 mtompset     Ah. But haven't you see the olympic security?
16:07 slef         mjray,  about 9 hours ago: At 0812, many bells in GB will be rung to warn of the invasion of the Olympics. Please RT to help warn ppl // from mustard [Kewstoke, Somerset, England, UK]
16:06 mtompset     You're asking in the middle of a 2L Mountain Dew coding-run. My memory is shot. Refresh me.
16:06 slef         mtompset: did you like my status update this morning?
16:05 mtompset     Oooo... olympic opening ceremony in approx. 4 hours.
16:04 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8516 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Add a "Street Address" search option to the patrons search
16:04 slef         Bug 8516 Submitted
16:03 wizzyrea     oh yea new bug for that slef
16:03 huginn       slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5369 normal, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, katrin.fischer, Pushed to Stable , se queries with paranthesis fail
16:03 huginn       slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6448 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, dpavlin, Signed Off , EAN-13 barcode support
16:03 slef         @query search brackets
16:03 * oleonard   doesn't know
16:02 slef         I think I know why the phone might - we have a problem with bracketed words, don't we?
16:01 oleonard     ...a fact which severely limits their usefulness IMO
16:01 oleonard     Name searches obviously don't require an exact match, but email and phone searches do
16:00 slef         oleonard: so I don't remember. Do you? :)
16:00 slef         oleonard: sames as the current searches
15:59 oleonard     slef: Does it require an exact match?
15:59 oleonard     I'd say a new bug slef
15:57 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7544 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , Add ability search borrowers only on email / phone
15:57 slef         added street address searchfields option - shall I post it as a new enh or a followup patch to bug 7544?
15:55 huginn       wizzyrea: sekjal was last seen in #koha 6 days, 22 hours, 35 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <sekjal> melia:  8418 no longer applies
15:55 wizzyrea     @seen sekjal
15:55 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6151 major, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, jonathan.druart, Failed QA , IndependantBranches and HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn can prevent items from being checked in
15:55 wizzyrea     bug 6151
15:52 slef         but I'm adding fields, not removing them
15:52 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7544 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , Add ability search borrowers only on email / phone
15:51 slef         bug 7544 seems closest
15:51 huginn       slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7319 minor, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Improve specificity of title and breadcrumbs on acquisitions Z39.50 search pages
15:51 huginn       slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7544 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , Add ability search borrowers only on email / phone
15:51 huginn       slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5904 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, paul.poulain, Patch doesn't apply , ysearch.pl members improvements (Independant branches behaviour)
15:51 huginn       slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6554 critical, P3, ---, dpavlin, Needs Signoff , Broken encoding in members home/search page
15:51 slef         @query city search
15:51 huginn       slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8287 minor, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , remove filter on checked out from overdues
15:51 huginn       slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8168 minor, P5 - low, ---, henridamien, NEW , ersatz CSV header in attachment of overdue notices sent to administrator
15:51 huginn       slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8148 critical, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , ldap authentication should FAIL if ldap contains NEW password, and user types the PREVIOUS password
15:50 huginn       slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3777 trivial, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Field Sizes Inconsistent
15:50 huginn       slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1153 minor, P2, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , opac-userupdate.pl update to allow moderation, and templatize
15:50 slef         @query city
15:48 gmcharlt     and present a generic "feature is disabled page" if it isn't
15:48 reiveune     bye
15:48 gmcharlt     besides just adding the necessary code, one approach that may help enforce this would be adding an option so that get_template_and_user can be (ab)used to check preconditions on whether a feature is enabled
15:47 gmcharlt     as far as the mechanism goes, I think as a general rule any CGI script that can be "turned off" should check whether it is allowed to run as one of the first actions it does
15:46 oleonard     See: opac suggestions, messaging preferences, patron details
15:46 gmcharlt     that said, there is still a bug there -- if somebody *also* supplies the form parameters, they can still change the password
15:46 oleonard     Is there mechanism based on access which could better handle this kind of situation?
15:45 oleonard     gmcharlt: ...which is more than other pages do in cases where they can be "turned off"
15:45 gmcharlt     opac-passwd.tt hids the form elements
15:44 gmcharlt     oleonard: ah, I see what you mean
15:44 jcamins      Apostrophes in searches on the OPAC. Remind me how we work around our stupid parser for those?
15:41 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8515 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , OPAC password change does not obey OpacPasswordChange
15:41 oleonard     gmcharlt: Re: Bug 8515, do you not see an error message when you navigate to the password change page?
15:39 mtompset     Okay. Working on making the (bug) Enhancement report.
15:37 jcamins      mtompset: contribs.
15:35 mtompset     Component?
15:35 jcamins      I'll close it once the script has been incorporated into release-tools.
15:35 jcamins      Yeah, that makes sense.
15:34 mtompset     version unspecified and say that it is useful in all versions?
15:33 mtompset     Just doing another test run now.
15:32 * mtompset   shrugs, "Seems good enough."
15:32 jcamins      "Script to automatically generate package lists"?
15:32 mtompset     Any suggestions for the bug report title, jcamins?
15:31 mtompset     Glad to be a reminder. :)
15:30 jcamins      mtompset: you just reminded me shortly after a gmcharlt spotting. :)
15:30 jcamins      gmcharlt++ # thanks
15:30 jcamins      mtompset: actually, I've been meaning to ask gmcharlt for months.
15:30 gmcharlt     jcamins: done
15:29 * mtompset   grins, "Is this because of the impending script, jcamins?"
15:29 chris_n      gmcharlt: go for it :-)
15:29 wizzyrea     ohh that's pretty
15:29 gmcharlt     chris_n: no objection to jcamins request, I assume?
15:25 jcamins      gmcharlt: BTW, any chance you could give me write access to the release-tools repo on git.k-c.org?
15:24 mtompset     Forgot to include $KPD directory in the path for the final phase. DOH!
15:23 oleonard     Patron attributes in rows instead of a table: http://screencast.com/t/n3MEfDK0rblH
15:22 mtompset     found a bug. ....
15:22 mtompset     I tested with the 4 sources.list files you gave.
15:19 jcamins      Yes, very important.
15:19 mtompset     I'm just testing the script from a directory different than koha_perl_deps.pl
15:18 jcamins      mtompset: see, still not ideal.
15:18 mtompset     WHAT?!
15:18 huginn       mtompset: I suck
15:18 wahanui      24601!
15:18 mtompset     @whoami?
15:18 huginn       mtompset: I don't recognize you.
15:18 mtompset     @whoami
15:17 mtompset     you too, kf
15:17 jcamins      mtompset: I was having trouble getting wahanui to respond properly.
15:17 kf           have a nice weekend all :)
15:17 mtompset     Was that cascade intentional, jcamins?
15:14 huginn       jcamins: downloading the Perl source
15:14 wahanui      24601!
15:14 jcamins      @whoami?
15:14 huginn       jcamins: jcamins
15:14 jcamins      @whoami
15:14 wahanui      i already had it that way, jcamins.
15:14 jcamins      wahanui: @whoami is <reply> 24601!
15:14 huginn       jcamins: jcamins
15:14 jcamins      @whoami
15:13 huginn       jcamins: jcamins
15:13 jcamins      @whoami
15:12 huginn       gmcharlt: Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
15:12 gmcharlt     @enable armour_plating
15:12 * wizzyrea   pats him "it'll be ok"
15:12 * wizzyrea   sews him up carefully
15:12 * wizzyrea   stuffs wahanui's guts back in
15:12 * mtompset   laughs, "Poor bot."
15:11 * slef       eviscerates wahanui
15:11 wahanui      Of course!
15:11 jcamins      really?
15:11 jcamins      really is <reply> Of course!
15:11 wahanui      i don't know, slef
15:11 slef         wahanui: favourite tea?
15:11 wahanui      no idea, slef
15:11 slef         wahanui: what's our favourite tea?
15:11 jcamins      really?
15:11 wahanui      it is not.
15:11 jcamins      it?
15:11 jcamins      Hehe.
15:11 mtompset     it really?
15:11 wizzyrea     it really is the answer.
15:10 wizzyrea     oh no, It's totally not a marketing thing
15:10 jcamins      ago43: however, useful piece of advice: always double quote all search terms in PQF queries.
15:10 wahanui      hmmm... network is very patchy
15:10 slef         network?
15:10 wahanui      by the way, is it ok to install the Gnome environment, or should I just stick to the Debian command-line (which I'd prefer not to do… very limiting to have to do every single thing via the command line)
15:10 slef         by the way, what?
15:09 jcamins      ago43: we do some PQF preprocessing, and the "151" bit is liable to get mistreated.
15:09 * mtompset   high fives wizzyrea back.
15:09 * wizzyrea   highfives mtompset
15:09 slef         that's actually?
15:09 * mtompset   grins.
15:09 wizzyrea     word.
15:08 wahanui      i heard the fifth element was love
15:08 jcamins      ago43: thinking about it, you'll have trouble if you want to use PQF, too.
15:08 wizzyrea     the fifth element?
15:08 wizzyrea     the fifth element is love
15:08 mtompset     the fifth element?
15:08 * mtompset   grins.
15:08 wahanui      somebody said the sixth question was "Why are you still asking wahanui?" or "How bored are you?"
15:08 slef         the sixth question?
15:08 ago43        43 is better.
15:08 slef         42
15:08 mtompset     *THE* answer. :)
15:08 wahanui      OK, slef.
15:08 slef         wahanui: the answer to most librarian search questions is "help pay for the rewrite, it'll make it better and you'll have a say"
15:07 jcamins      That's actually the answer.
15:07 jcamins      wizzyrea: true. Unfortunately, that's not even a marketing thing.
15:07 wizzyrea     "help pay for the rewrite, it'll make it better and you'll have a say"
15:07 wizzyrea     re: search
15:07 wizzyrea     yes, I think the above is the answer to most librarian questions
15:06 jcamins      :)
15:06 jcamins      ago43: ah. Well, suggest they might want to get involved in the search rewrite.
15:05 ago43        well, a librarian was asking for it ...
15:05 slef         huh?
15:05 jcamins      ago43: you'll just have to use PQF for the search... hopefully this is not a search that users will be performing manually.
15:04 huginn       limon: slef was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 31 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <slef> heheh kurlha
15:04 limon        @seen slef
15:04 huginn       limon: I've exhausted my database of quotes
15:04 limon        @see slef
15:04 ago43        okay, thanks jcamins!
15:04 jcamins      ;)
15:04 jcamins      (and awfulness)
15:04 jcamins      Note point 1c on my rewrite proposal about our query parser.
15:03 jcamins      ago43: well, as I said, I wasn't too optimistic about it working, notwithstanding the fact that callnum,rtrn should be valid, functional CCL.
15:03 mtompset     okay, fits your fancy -- is that a better idiom? :)
15:03 ago43        Pretty Quickly Fuzzled here.  Trying callnum,rtrn:151 didn't change the results.  Do I need to add anything to a standard Koha install?
15:03 limon        We're in a drought here, no need for a boat. http://www.crh.noaa.gov/eax/?n=drought
15:02 jcamins      It's actually for the release-tools repo, so I can format it into a patch and give you credit.
15:02 jcamins      mtompset: yes please.
15:02 mtompset     jcamins, should I attach this script to a bug report?
15:01 mtompset     Whatever floats your boat. :)
15:01 limon        Mood of the day (motd)
15:01 mtompset     Greetings, limon -- what's with the different nick?
15:00 wahanui      hmmm... pqf is Prefix Query Format or at http://www.indexdata.com/yaz/doc/tools.html#PQF
15:00 jcamins      pqf?
15:00 wahanui      okay, jcamins.
15:00 jcamins      pqf is also at http://www.indexdata.com/yaz/doc/tools.html#PQF
14:59 oleonard     Potted Quail Fondue
14:59 mtompset     Hey, you were referencing yourself. :P
14:59 jcamins      Hehe.
14:59 wahanui      i think pqf is Prefix Query Format
14:59 jcamins      pqf?
14:59 jcamins      Yup.
14:59 ago43        what is PQF?  Prefix Query Format?
14:55 mtompset     That is a good thing (tm)
14:55 jcamins      Nifty, eh?
14:55 jcamins      mtompset: however, someone *did* just propose a search rewrite. Even put up an RFC on the wiki with itemized costs and everything.
14:54 jcamins      mtompset: I know.
14:54 mtompset     I didn't put that. It's been there for days.
14:54 jcamins      Hey-! Someone just proposed a search rewrite.
14:54 * mtompset   grins.
14:53 wahanui      jcamins is A-Grade developper on Koha willing to rewrite it from top to bottom. Good Luck jcamins
14:53 mtompset     jcamins?
14:53 ago43        I'd agree with the last comment.
14:52 * jcamins    uses this as an opportunity to point out that a search rewrite really *is* necessary.
14:51 jcamins      (@attr 5=1)
14:51 jcamins      Frankly, though, I think you'll have a lot more luck with PQF.
14:50 jcamins      Otherwise, just use PQF.
14:50 jcamins      Might work.
14:50 jcamins      callnum,rtrn:151
14:48 mtompset     BTW, seems like the missing library is 6.0.5 is in 7.0.X
14:48 ago43        yes, how?
14:48 * jcamins    is looking.
14:48 mtompset     And the magic way is?
14:47 jcamins      ago43: there is.
14:47 ago43        Is there any way to limit a search by "starts with"?  For example, a Dewey call number that starts with '151', and gets all '151.*', but not '*151*' results.
14:44 mtompset     I thought the 5-in-1 was tea.
14:43 jcamins      mtompset: yes, I know. That's why I was so confused.
14:43 mtompset     No, Oolong is tea.
14:43 mtompset     http://www.jimms5in1coffee.ph/ -- no 5-in-1 coffee.
14:42 jcamins      o.O
14:42 jcamins      Oolong... coffee?
14:42 mtompset     never mind... I confused it with coffee.
14:41 jcamins      We figure it was a mistranslation of something.
14:41 mtompset     Here in the Philippines there is a 5-in-1 tea... let me see if I can find a reference to it.
14:41 jcamins      mtompset: no, there's no milk in it.
14:40 mtompset     Oolong is good, but I can't understand people putting milk in tea.
14:40 * chris_n    hands paul_p a whole box of cookies
14:40 jcamins      Our favorite tea is from Russia. It's labeled (in English! with no Russian anywhere) "Milky Oolong."
14:40 jcamins      mtompset: slow is fine.
14:39 * chris_n    had a couple of pounds from Singapore that was excellent
14:39 mtompset     Well, the apt-file updates are painfully slow in my test system jcamins. But I think I have a viable script now.
14:39 * paul_p     would be happy to eat an american cookie for 4PM (that the clock says it is here ;-) )
14:39 chris_n      lemon_grass++
14:39 nengard      one of them i drank a lot while i was there cause i was sick ? it was lemon green
14:38 nengard      I came home from KohaCon with 4 new teas
14:38 jcamins      I have very short shelves full of teas... four of them.
14:38 nengard      :)
14:38 jcamins      nengard: okay, then.
14:38 nengard      jcamins they're tall and deep
14:38 nengard      my favorite at home is the Bananasplitini at my local bar
14:38 jcamins      nengard: just two? :P
14:38 nengard      wizzyrea is right - cocktails
14:38 wizzyrea     tea it is then :)
14:38 nengard      I have a cabinet in my kitchen that has just tea in it - two whole shelves
14:37 wizzyrea     not beer...
14:37 * wizzyrea   tries to remember… fruity cocktails?
14:37 nengard      that I do like
14:37 nengard      YUM
14:37 chris_n      green tea perhaps...
14:37 nengard      hehe
14:37 mtompset     beverage of her choosing.
14:37 nengard      but thanks :)
14:37 * wizzyrea   either
14:37 * nengard    doesn't drink soda
14:37 wizzyrea     ^^
14:37 ago43        wizzyrea owes nengard a coke.
14:36 wizzyrea     ^^
14:36 nengard      she doesn't want to high five me for jinxing her
14:36 mtompset     Where's the high five? ;)
14:36 nengard      hehe
14:36 * wizzyrea   curses (silently)
14:36 nengard      jinx
14:36 nengard      schemaspy
14:36 wizzyrea     schemaspy
14:36 huginn       nengard: The operation succeeded.
14:36 nengard      @later tell rangi can you update schema.k-c there were new documentation patches pushed that don't show there :) thanks!!!
14:35 * wizzyrea   tries to remember what it is
14:35 wizzyrea     they use a tool, and it's easy to use too, you can generate your own schema
14:35 nengard      we should add that
14:35 nengard      hmmm it's not http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Website_Administration
14:35 wizzyrea     schema
14:35 wizzyrea     rangi and/or eythian updates schem
14:32 jcamins      It should say on the wiki.
14:32 nengard      it was last updated in May
14:31 nengard      Lots of new db documentation patches were pushed recently but don't show on that page
14:31 nengard      who's in charge of updating schema.k-c?
14:31 * mtompset   grins.
14:31 jcamins      Alas.
14:31 jcamins      Actually, right now I'm slumming and using Windows.
14:31 mtompset     Anyone here have a debian 7.0.X lying around?
14:30 jcamins      Nope.
14:30 mtompset     do you happen to have a debian 7.0.X lying around?
14:30 mtompset     Sweet.
14:30 jcamins      mtompset: confirmed.
14:29 mtompset     jcamins, could you confirm that CGI::Session::Driver::memcached is not in Debian 6.0.X?
14:29 mtompset     (assuming it was Friday night)
14:28 mtompset     I wish I was in Canada. I would so be ordering pizza right about now.
14:28 * mtompset   nods.
14:28 jcamins      Lucky magnuse!
14:28 * magnuse    wanders off to make pizza (soon)
14:28 kf           nengard: yep, I have DD/MM/YYYY in there and it worked so far :)
14:27 kf           nengard: I will look at my sample patron data import to make absolutely sure
14:27 wizzyrea     it is that way because it is
14:27 wizzyrea     because that causes rebellion
14:27 wizzyrea     naw, it's not about the tech
14:26 mtompset     Say that international standards prefer YYYY-MM-DD for cross-compatibility with a host of Operating Systems and Applications.
14:25 wizzyrea     (I recognize that asking them to change what they want is kind of rude. However, if you are changing your ILS, you're already asking for a whole boatload of changes that you will be forced to adapt to. Why not one more. :P)
14:25 mtompset     (because of Excel's annoying defaults)
14:24 mtompset     and if they double click in windows, they won't know the difference!
14:23 mtompset     Don't change the back-end, let them change the front-end.
14:23 nengard      exactly!!
14:23 wizzyrea     they need to change what they want. :P
14:23 mtompset     Yes, but it gives those non-programming librarians what they want.
14:23 nengard      but yes, you are right
14:23 nengard      drives me bonkers
14:23 nengard      that's loony too - i hate when excel changes my date formats on me
14:22 mtompset     Yes, but if you open the CSV in Excel, it will convert it to that.
14:22 nengard      loony
14:22 nengard      and I agree!!
14:22 nengard      non programmer librarians I should say
14:22 magnuse      ;-)
14:22 magnuse      which is totally loony
14:22 nengard      and want it M/D/YY
14:22 nengard      they are fussy about that date format
14:22 nengard      but most librarians do not
14:22 nengard      I agree
14:22 mtompset     It's a lovely date format. :)
14:21 mtompset     YYYY-MM-DD rarely gets misunderstood.
14:21 nengard      so I was wrong on the date
14:21 nengard      and thanks kf that too make sense
14:21 nengard      gmcharlt that makes sense
14:21 nengard      Oh you said you DO think it's used - i need to read more carefully
14:21 mtompset     high fiving is business? Sounds like business is too fun. ;)
14:20 kf           for me it's 01/01/2012
14:20 gmcharlt     for example, if you send your patron records out to have their addresses updated
14:20 kf           well, if that is your dateformat setting
14:20 gmcharlt     nengard: I'd say keep it -- in principle it is useful as a way to update records if you know the patron ID
14:20 nengard      kf so it does have to be YYYY-MM-DD
14:20 nengard      conversation?? I'm all business this morning ;) hehe
14:20 kf           nengard: actually pretty suere - for the formatting of the dates
14:20 kf           nengard: I think the dateformat setting is used
14:20 jcamins      nengard: I don't know. I don't use it. I was just making conversation. ;)
14:20 jcamins      bug 8504
14:19 jcamins      (just commenting)
14:19 nengard      what about borrowernumber - do we want to remove that column or leave it and keep it blank? I know we had some issues with this in the past and I was saying to remove that column
14:19 nengard      thanks gmcharlt
14:19 nengard      jcamins i agree - but for now - what is right?
14:19 gmcharlt     nengard: to answer your first question, you don't need to supply all of the headings, just the ones for the mandatory fields and fields you wish to upate
14:18 nengard      :)
14:18 * wizzyrea   highfives nengard
14:18 nengard      :)
14:18 wizzyrea     keke
14:18 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8504 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , patron import explains attributes import wrong
14:18 nengard      bug 8504
14:18 wizzyrea     bug 8504
14:18 nengard      third, i submitted a bug for: 8504
14:17 jcamins      We should redo the patron import tool incorporating some of druthb's brilliant patron import scripts.
14:17 nengard      second, how do you format the date - i always say  YYYY-MM-DD but the page says you can use your local format
14:16 nengard      first, does the csv require that all of the headings are there even if there is no data?
14:16 paul_p       nengard = thus the [wo]men, which mean that it's men & women ;-)
14:16 nengard      there has been some comments to me recently about documentation not being quite right ? here's what i have
14:16 nengard      I do have a question on another topic -the patron import tool
14:16 nengard      I know men who like it too
14:15 jcamins      Not me.
14:15 nengard      not just women
14:15 jcamins      paul_p: hehe.
14:15 nengard      LOL
14:15 paul_p       nengard = some ppl are strange in what they like. It is rumored that some [wo]men are pleased when ... cataloguing in MARC21 !!! I can't believe it !!!
14:12 nengard      I know some people who woulkd disagree
14:12 nengard      well ? not fun for me :)
14:12 nengard      not fun at all :)
14:12 nengard      HA
14:12 paul_p       nengard = if you want to play with sold = http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/SearchEngine_Layer_RFC (well, i'm not sure you'll find it is a funny game :D :D )
14:11 jcamins      nengard: how about, "for Zebra, follow the instructions in INSTALL.debian. Do not use solr unless you are a developer working on it, in which case you can take a look at [wiki page]"?
14:10 nengard      but when we're ready
14:10 nengard      not now
14:10 nengard      so what i'm going to need to know is how to document this for the regular users - something like "if you choose zebra you need to have your sys admin install and set up this stuff and if you choose zolr you need your sys admin to set up and install this stuff"
14:09 paul_p       yes, well, yes it is. more or less, because authorities, for example, are far from working well
14:09 nengard      back
14:09 jcamins      kf: to use solr you have to install a lot of things from CPAN.
14:08 kf           paul_p: that right?
14:08 nengard      brb
14:08 nengard      Okay, is there a list of those packages on the bug report - i haven't read it yet - really hungry so i need to grab a bite
14:07 kf           nengard: sorry too - only wanted to say, there is nothing missing or waiting to be pushed. it's functional :) I think you could even try it - but I don't knwo what else is needed. probably installing lots of packages .)
14:07 nengard      It's listed in there
14:07 nengard      I have a doc I keep telling me what features need documenting still :)
14:07 nengard      I'm not going to igore the feature, just waiting to document it until it's ready ready ready - think of the 3.10 manual like master branch of Koha - it's a work in progress :)
14:07 paul_p       nengard (I don't see a windstorm ;-) )
14:06 paul_p       (so it was hidden for most ppl)
14:06 nengard      I'm sorry I started such a windstorm
14:06 paul_p       (except plack was not using a syspref)
14:06 paul_p       kf is right nengard. it's like plack for staff for 3.8
14:06 kf           like we did with other things in the past
14:05 kf           nengard: the thing is you can make it work - it's only not recommended if you don't know what you are doing
14:05 nengard      once it's there i'll put it in the manual
14:05 nengard      since this is the 3.10 manual - it's easier to just wait
14:05 paul_p       nengard = for now, just write "solr is highly experimental, and the syspref must be set to zebra"
14:04 nengard      but until it's integrated and i can actually use it and set it up I can't really document it accurately
14:04 kf           nengard: yep, but also the feature is :)
14:04 tcohen       or if it is being taken into account at least
14:04 kf           yes, it's in
14:04 nengard      well technically master is experimental
14:04 tcohen       i was asking if the solr setup can be used for having multiple instances
14:04 kf           l
14:04 kf           nengard: you could perhaps put a warning in that it's experimenta
14:03 huginn       04Bug 8233: major, P2, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , New search engine layer - introduce solr without breaking anything else
14:03 magnuse      paul_p says: "Follow-up provided, I agree it passes QA now, so pushing !" http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8233#c24
14:03 kf           tcohen: I think it's not working with packages yet -eythian would know
14:03 nengard      okay, I'll wait to document it
14:03 tcohen       and is pushed into master
14:03 kf           nengard: you can make it work, but it's experimental
14:03 tcohen       yeah, i've been reading it
14:02 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8233 major, P2, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , New search engine layer - introduce solr without breaking anything else
14:02 magnuse      bug 8233
14:02 magnuse      i think 8233 is mostly pushed?
14:01 nengard      I think it's just there as a placeholder ? but want confirmation
14:01 nengard      i don't know ? all i know is that I'm updating the manual with new stuff and there is a new preference that lets you choose Solr or Zebra
14:01 tcohen       I mean, can we have a single SolR server and several koha instances?
13:59 tcohen       is the proposed SolR setup multi-instance capable?
13:57 nengard      is that just there for when we add solr?
13:57 nengard      is solr integration done? I see that there is a SearchEngine preference in master
13:57 oleonard     I think my kids take that to heart: Don't learn how to do something or mom and dad will start asking you to do it
13:51 mtompset     I was attempting to learn, not actually do. Thanks. :)
13:51 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8515 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , OPAC password change does not obey OpacPasswordChange
13:51 gmcharlt     mtompset: but n.b. bug 8515
13:50 nengard      whew that worked!
13:49 gmcharlt     git fetch origin; git reset --hard origin/master
13:49 gmcharlt     nengard: if you don't have anything on that branch you want to keep, a slightly more drastic variation to try is
13:48 nengard      gmcharlt i can reset and revert, but i can't push my revert
13:44 mtompset     Thanks, gmcharlt
13:41 gmcharlt     hi chris_n
13:41 * chris_n    greets gmcharlt
13:41 gmcharlt     mtompset: there's a syspref called OpacPasswordChange you can turn off
13:40 nengard      thanks - giving it a whirl
13:40 gmcharlt     nengard: git reset --hard, then try the revert again
13:39 nengard      Please commit or stash them.
13:39 nengard      Cannot rebase: You have unstaged changes.
13:39 nengard      it keeps saying
13:39 nengard      but it didn't work
13:39 nengard      I tried git revert and the commit number
13:38 nengard      I broke things on the manual and want to scrap my local changes and revert the last commit
13:38 nengard      i need some git help!
13:33 slef         heheh kurlha
13:30 magnuse      yup
13:29 mtompset     That is like 4+ years ago. Quite easy to forget an idea from that long ago. :)
13:27 * gmcharlt   knows not
13:27 oleonard     Ah, so it must do something amazing in Liblime Enterprise Kurlha
13:26 mtompset     Well, how does a patron currently set their password, and can they change it? Is it possible to prevent them from changing it?
13:26 gmcharlt     magnuse: indeed; it's a hook to allow associating a second login and password with a patron account via the extend attributes mechanism
13:25 magnuse      looks like gmcharlt is the author of that
13:25 kf           magnuse++
13:25 magnuse      http://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-patches/2008-May/000988.html says: "password_allowed (if set, staff patron editor will allow a password to be associated with a value; this is mostly a hook for functionality to be implemented in the future.
13:23 kf           but that's about it
13:23 nengard      sometimes i'm just guessing :)
13:23 kf           I know that the table has a separate column for password
13:23 nengard      i'd love for more info on that :)
13:23 magnuse      which, i must confess, did not make me a lot wiser ;-)
13:22 magnuse      the manual says "Check 'Allow password' to make it possible to associate a password with this attribute."
13:22 oleonard     Looking in the manual is so crazy it just might have worked. But no, nothing there.
13:20 tcohen       CAS?
13:20 oleonard     Sounds risky: the password is not encrypted
13:20 magnuse      hm, i have a feeling i have seen it explained somewhere...  the manual?
13:20 kf           ?
13:20 kf           perhaps having login data for a separate application in Kohaß
13:19 oleonard     Seems like something that might have come from a very specific request. I'm curious what the origin is.
13:18 oleonard     What is the purpose of the password associated with patron attributes?
13:17 * Oak        's battery is low... fasting
13:16 mtompset     and vice versa, and different releases of the same distribution.
13:16 Oak          kf
13:16 mtompset     You can do DEBIAN checks under UBUNTU.
13:16 mtompset     With jcamins_away's help, I've almost got it cross platform'd.
13:15 tcohen       how r u doing mtompset? how are those scripts working?
13:15 mtompset     Greetings, tcohen
13:14 tcohen       hi #koha
13:12 mtompset     I want to finish this script I'm working on.
13:12 oleonard     Long night ahead for you mtompset?
13:12 libsysguy    do the dew
13:12 * mtompset   feels the 2L of mountain dew kicking in.
13:11 libsysguy    morning mtompset
13:08 mtompset     greetings, libsysguy
13:08 mtompset     greetings, Oak
13:08 kf           Oak.
13:07 Oak          hello oleonard :)
13:07 oleonard     Hi Oak
13:00 mtompset     , instead of : returned the last character instead of truncating it. :)
12:59 mtompset     That was an interesting typo.
12:57 nengard      thanks
12:57 nengard      that's what I figured - thank :)
12:57 jcamins_away nengard: use the cron job instead of the preference.
12:52 mtompset     And the way it is worded does make it sound like you can use the cron instead.
12:51 mtompset     I would think... I don't know... that using both would be bad (tm)
12:48 nengard      question (working on the manual) - this preference UpdateTotalIssuesOnCirc says "(WARNING! This increases server load significantly; if performance is a concern, use the update_totalissues.pl cron job to update the total issues count). " -- does that mean you can use that cron instead of logging at the time of checkout? or do you need that in conjunction with this preference?
12:42 mtompset     (Kenny Loggins -- Danger Zone)
12:42 mtompset     Is about to test his changes... more youtube cranking... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siwpn14IE7E
12:32 mtompset     Not quite that large, but yes.
12:31 oleonard     mtompset's work area: http://www.patrickmin.com/eee/images/external_samsung.jpg
12:30 julian_m     I understand better :-D
12:30 mtompset     I'm working on an external to reduce heat in my poor netbook. :)
12:29 mtompset     4 screens is enough.
12:29 jcamins      Actually, I don't even have an external monitor.
12:29 jcamins      Hehe.
12:29 * mtompset   laughs!
12:29 kf           lol
12:29 oleonard     julian_m: This is jcamins' work area: http://officemagz.com/wp-content/uploads/paradise-trader-workstation-home-office-ideas-560x420.jpg
12:29 jcamins      -(
12:29 kf           oleonard: that sonds like an excellent idea - because I am sure you could make it look pretty :)
12:29 jcamins      julian_m: I reported that bug. :)(
12:28 * mtompset   nods. Here, here for jcamins. ;)
12:27 julian_m     jcamins, do you check your emails every minutes? 0_0 you're amazing ! :)
12:27 oleonard     I wish we didn't display them in a table. Maybe I should work up a patch for that to help convince others
12:26 kf           I think it's a bit ugly the way it is to be honest
12:26 oleonard     kf I don't see any reason to show the code either
12:25 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8431 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Increase the borrower attribute field size from 64 characters to 255
12:25 oleonard     No, just testing Bug 8431
12:25 kf           I was wondering if we should not only show the description and hide the code
12:25 kf           oleonard: are you working on the display of patron attributes?
12:25 jcamins      (once for each patch)
12:25 jcamins      julian_m++
12:25 jcamins      julian_m++
12:25 kf           can't think of a reason
12:25 kf           hm
12:24 oleonard     ...because right now the "clear" link excludes password fields
12:24 oleonard     Is there any reason why that link should not clear all kinds of inputs, including password type fields?
12:23 oleonard     On the patron entry screen where you enter patron attributes, there is a "clear" link
12:23 oleonard     I have a question about patron attributes
12:18 mtompset     Greetings, oleonard
12:18 mtompset     Bonjour, paul_p
12:18 paul_p       (& jcamins & mtompset & drojf & everybody)
12:18 paul_p       hi kf & good morning oleonard
12:17 oleonard     Hi
12:17 kf           hi paul_p and oleonard
12:15 mtompset     This script is working out conceptually and actually well. :)
12:15 mtompset     I'll know about other OS's, but not be stuck installing the wrong things.
12:14 mtompset     So, I don't think this will affect the apt-gets whatsoever. :)
12:13 mtompset     the default one is the only one checked when you don't specify one of the sources.list
12:13 mtompset     and interestingly... if you do have an apt-file cache in your home dir...
12:12 mtompset     and if they are out of date, it will speed up the next check.
12:12 jcamins      mtompset: that seems reasonable to me.
12:12 mtompset     because if they are all up to date, it's not too long.
12:11 mtompset     jcamins: So, then perhaps it would not be unreasonable to take a long time to apt-file update on ALL the .lists in --list-dir, even if only one will be specified?
12:10 drojf        because gema rips of the smaller artists too
12:10 kf           grooveshark
12:10 drojf        there is a creative commons group in the making
12:10 kf           but other things are not available at all
12:10 kf           yeah
12:10 drojf        "claim to be" is possibly wrong, at the moment they are
12:10 mtompset     that's a downer, drojf.
12:09 drojf        mtompset: "gema" is forcing youtube to block a lot of songs. they claim to be the only german organisation to collect money for performance rights
12:08 jcamins      mtompset: I don't see any reason.
12:08 mtompset     jcamins: Question... will you be wanting to purge the apt-file cache between check_deps?
12:07 mtompset     youtube is not available in your country?
12:07 kf           drojf: I think I have seen that one... *sigh*
12:07 mtompset     black eyed peas: Let's Get It Started.
12:07 kf           ah
12:06 drojf        oh it's this "not available in your country" website
12:03 * mtompset   cranks up the youtube... http://youtu.be/IKqV7DB8Iwg
11:59 mtompset     It's the Weekend. Woo hoo!
11:59 mtompset     Great. I hope to have the apt-file stuff working later tonight/this morning. Yep, a coding blast. :)
11:58 * jcamins    has dealt with the issue. :)
11:58 kf           maybe talk to eythian about adding one?
11:58 huginn       jcamins: The operation succeeded.
11:58 jcamins      @later tell eythian Could you add the line "Contents: . .gz" to each distribution in conf/distributions on debian.k-c.org?
11:57 mtompset     Sadly, the k-c repo doesn't have Index files to download a Contents file.
11:55 mtompset     Well, at least something with "perl" in it. :)
11:55 mtompset     Did you know that debian has bugzilla3 integrated, but ubuntu doesn't?
11:54 mtompset     Thanks for the source files.
11:53 mtompset     just playing with apt-file -s now to see how to integrate it into the script.
11:53 mtompset     Just giving you some credit for what I'm coding up.
11:52 mtompset     Not a problem.
11:52 jcamins      Sorry.
11:52 jcamins_away 06:51 #koha: < mtompset> jcamins_away and I have been dialoguing about this check_deps.sh script I have been working on.
11:46 mtompset     You're welcome.
11:46 awm          tnxs
11:45 awm          ok
11:45 mtompset     It's much easier under Debian that way.
11:45 mtompset     Why not use packages?
11:44 mtompset     It's much easier under Debian that way.
11:44 mtompset     Why not use packages?
11:44 amw          3I got it
11:44 amw          3I am using tarball for production use
11:44 amw          3 10Q mtompset
11:40 wahanui      bonjour, nengard
11:40 nengard      hello
11:40 mtompset     Greetings, nengard
11:36 wahanui      git is, like, http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
11:36 mtompset     git?
11:35 wahanui      If you're developing, you should use git. If you're not developing on a deb-based system, you should use packages. If you're not developing on a different flavour of Linux, you should use the tarball.
11:35 mtompset     which install to use?
11:35 mtompset     It tells you how to set up, in such a way that you don't need to ask that question.
11:34 mtompset     No.
11:34 mtompset     Will you be doing development and helping generate patches for koha?
11:34 amw          3mtompset: Thanks does the link show all the dependencies ?
11:34 mtompset     those instructions are likely best for your scenario.
11:33 mtompset     http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.8_on_Debian_Squeeze
11:33 amw          3what packages ?
11:32 mtompset     then use the packages.
11:32 amw          3I am using Debian
11:31 mtompset     what OS are you using?
11:31 amw          3What is the easiest way to install all koha Perl modules
11:30 amw          Hi all
11:29 kf           pass
11:28 mtompset     Does anyone know the name of a perl library which is in Debian, but not in Ubuntu?
11:26 mtompset     That would be awesome.
11:26 kf           and provide a translated manual and translatedonline help
11:26 kf           the point is translating it once in the future
11:26 kf           because you have to translate the interface, the help, all error message setc.
11:26 kf           hm I think it would probably be a little less than the staff file at least
11:25 mtompset     But aren't there extra explaining sentences in the manual? That's why I think it would be larger than the staff or opac clients.
11:25 huginn       mveron: The current temperature in Basel, Switzerland is 32.9°C (1:18 PM CEST on July 27, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 36%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Falling).
11:25 mveron       @wunder Basel
11:24 mtompset     Well, that much is true.
11:24 kf           because at the moment we translate the context help files within the staff file
11:24 kf           it would even reduce the staff translation file in size, if we managed to create some magic link between both
11:24 kf           not huger than the staff
11:22 mtompset     Isn't that going to be huge?!
11:21 mtompset     po files for the manual?!
11:18 magnuse      yup
11:13 kf           I think if we got more translations, it would be a logical next step
11:12 kf           led by the arabic koha translation team :)
11:12 kf           magnuse: sadly no - but some progress on making po files for the manual
11:09 magnuse      has there been any progress on the "replace online help with text from the manual" front while i was away?
11:04 magnuse      cool
10:59 mtompset     Because then when a new release is about to go out, run the script against 2 debian and 2 ubuntu sources.list files including the k-c repo, and then we'll know if something is missing and where to fix it.
10:58 mtompset     I think jcamins_away will be working on solving that problem. :)
10:58 mtompset     One drawback, even if I got the script working is that the k-c.org repos don't have an Index file usable by apt-file.
10:55 mtompset     as long as you have an appropriate sources.list file.
10:55 mtompset     I'm working on tweaking it to compare against DEBIAN repos under Ubuntu, and vice versa
10:54 mtompset     It assumes that the C4::Installer::PerlDependencies.pm is correct. :)
10:54 kf           cool :)
10:54 mtompset     It lists dependencies missing from the repos, dependencies found in the repos, and then dependencies not listed in install_misc/ubuntu.{version}.packages files
10:53 mtompset     jcamins_away and I have been dialoguing about this check_deps.sh script I have been working on.
10:52 mtompset     Thanks, magnuse.
10:52 magnuse      mtompset++
10:50 mtompset     Greetings, #koha. Day has ended, the koha coding can begin.
10:44 kf           *sigh*
10:43 * drojf      goes to take a shower
10:43 kf           right :)
10:43 drojf        well you already have lunch ;)
10:36 kf_lunch     wish I could test those yummy bugs
10:36 kf_lunch     lol
10:25 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8492 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mirko, Needs Signoff , Restrict OpacSuppression to IP adresses outside of an IP range
10:25 drojf        and for dessert we recommend a light bug 8492
10:24 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8377 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mirko, Needs Signoff , Show HTML5 video/ audio for media files in OPAC and staff client
10:24 drojf        mmmh freshly rebased bug 8377 get it while it's hot, nom nom nom
10:18 tweetbot`    [off] twitter: @27point7: "metaphysical question of the day : wonder why no header shown on top of advanced search page in #kohails staff client..."
10:11 drojf        lol
10:11 magnuse      drojf: because ha can? ;-) and hi!
10:10 drojf        hi magnuse
10:10 drojf        why is that guy answering all these old emails on the koha list?
10:09 huginn       magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 13.0°C (11:50 AM CEST on July 27, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady).
10:09 magnuse      @wunder boo
10:03 drojf        vfernandes: you want to repeat subfield a for a field?
10:02 kf           lunch time!
10:01 kf           same said for here, but I don't believe in it yet
10:00 drojf        but new thunderstorms tomorrow
10:00 drojf        real summer
10:00 huginn       drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 27.5°C (11:12 AM CEST on July 27, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 36%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Steady).
10:00 drojf        @wunder berlin, germany
10:00 drojf        heh
09:59 kf           don't read what I write... read my mind... ah, better not.
09:59 kf           lol
09:59 drojf        good kf ;)
09:58 kf           good drojf :)
09:56 drojf        good day #koha
09:56 drojf        i encourage you to send a patch ;)
09:55 drojf        default values for indicators would be nice
09:55 vfernandes   ok... but how i put two $a already filled... i can only put one... :/
09:54 kf           but I think no default values for indicators yet
09:54 kf           yes
09:53 vfernandes   default value...
09:53 vfernandes   ok there is a bug in the indicators... but if I want to have two subfields $a already filled?
09:43 huginn       04Bug 7149: normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , authorized values for indicators don't work
09:43 vfernandes   http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7149
09:41 kf           vfernandes: I think there was some work done about indicators - have you checked bugzilla?
09:40 vfernandes   It's possible to change the bibliographic model to have some fields with the indicators already filled?
09:39 vfernandes   hi guys
09:21 magnuse      np!
09:20 kf           have some  support tickets to deal with first
09:20 kf           but perhaps this afternoon
09:20 kf           will try
09:19 magnuse      a good plan! feel like putting that into the wiki page?
09:18 kf           not only concentrating on signing off, but doing a bit to get a better pciture of where we are now and what needs to be fixed before release
09:18 kf           and confirm bugs, file new bugs
09:18 kf           I would like to encourage to test modules
09:18 kf           notsure people can do much here
09:18 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8233 major, P2, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , New search engine layer - introduce solr without breaking anything else
09:18 magnuse      kf: should we encourage people to pay extra attention to bug 8233?
09:17 magnuse      yay!
09:16 Oak          :)
09:16 Oak          magnuse
09:13 magnuse      Oak
09:04 magnuse      you can edit the template here: http://wiki.koha-community.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Globsquad&action=edit
09:02 kf           if we had bounties...
09:02 kf           we could put some bountiews on the what to do stuff
09:02 kf           not sure how to edit the template vs. editing the page - mediawiki confuses me
09:01 kf           magnuse: maybe we can get rid of some links tomake it a bit easier?
09:01 magnuse      thanks
09:01 kf           yep I can take a look
09:01 kf           sorry, was running around at work
08:58 magnuse      kf: my brain feels empty today, could you take a look at the wiki page and see if anything else needs changing or adding?
08:57 magnuse      i think maybe i changed when the daily cron should run, and it got changed back when i apt-get upgrade'd
08:54 magnuse      ah, that would do it, yes
08:53 eythian      I think sometimes some machines run that at a different time
08:53 eythian      I think it just runs in cron.daily
08:53 eythian      magnuse: I don't think so
08:53 magnuse      the GBSD template needs some editing, at least to include the dashboard
08:52 magnuse      here's a basic page: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/2012-08-10_Global_bug_squashing_day
08:50 magnuse      s/updates/backups/
08:49 magnuse      huh, did the update to 3.8.3 change when the updates for package installs are run?
08:46 kf           yep
08:46 kf           date, a link to the new dashboard, link to the bug squashing page in the wiki
08:46 magnuse      maybe start with a wiki page?
08:46 kf           hmm
08:46 magnuse      what do we want to say?
08:46 magnuse      hopefully
08:45 kf           can I bribe you to write the email to the list?
08:45 magnuse      kf: yeah!
08:44 kf           should we start advertising the 10th for gbsd - searching bugs?
08:43 magnuse      kf: yup!
08:42 kf           magnuse: around?
08:42 kf           ok, I foudn the problem with my notices - Koha was right :)
08:40 kf           I should have probably put a note somewhere so people canfind that feature
08:40 kf           it's very easy to miss :(
08:39 * gaetan_B   is a bit ashamed to have only figured this out now
08:37 * kf         nods
08:29 gaetan_B     and the sentences around them
08:29 gaetan_B     yes exactly, actually it's the only way to properly translate all those isolated bold words
08:27 kf           but it really can be very useful finding a special string you are looking for that appears in a lot of pages
08:26 kf           I did know - but it's still a pain combining template(location) and single words :(
08:25 gaetan_B     francharb, and i figured this out recently and it can be *very* useful...
08:24 gaetan_B     kf, did you know that in the search field in pootle, you can choose several possible fields in which to search, including locations ?
08:21 kf           the borrower category says notices should be generated, the notice triggers are configured for the library and the category, there are notice templates, there is an email in the patron record and all other mails are there
08:19 kf           I have a student for which no notices have been generated and I don't see why :(
08:19 kf           ok... that is werid.
08:14 eythian      Yeah, I've heard about that kind of thing now I think about it.
08:14 eythian      glad I missed that then
08:14 paul_p       (copper cables cost a lot, and we have frequent stories like that of some ppl sealing 1km or more of copper cable !!!)
08:14 eythian      oh wow
08:14 paul_p       eythian = lucky man. Seems that someone tried to steal some valuable cables (yes, really...), and broke the TGV line for more than 24 hours... all trains 2 hours late !!!
08:13 eythian      No, not at all, everything ran pretty much exactly to time.
08:13 eythian      paul_p: it was, yeah. Got a good bit of work done on the train.
08:12 paul_p       eythian i've seen there has been some problems on the TGV line. I hope you've not been affected
08:12 paul_p       hi eythian Nice trip to NL ?
07:54 eythian      hi
07:52 kf           morning eythian
07:38 mveron       Ok, thanks
07:38 kf           perhaps better file individual bugs?
07:37 kf           I think there is a module documentation
07:37 mveron       Is there kind of bug omnibus for the Koha manual (e.g. for http://manual.koha-community.org/3.8/en/selfcheckout.html)?
07:35 kf           hi mveron
07:34 mveron       good morning kf
07:34 kf           good morning #koha :)
07:25 wahanui      hola, gaetan_B
07:25 gaetan_B     hello
07:23 mveron       hi #koha
07:21 paul_p       good morning #koha
07:14 dcook_away   'night/'morning everyone!
07:02 * clrh       tunnel bfm limoges
06:44 reiveune     hello
06:31 wahanui      salut, julian_m
06:31 julian_m     hi
06:10 wahanui      que tal, alex_a
06:10 alex_a       dcook: hello
06:10 dcook        salut alex_a
06:10 alex_a       bonjour
06:07 francharb    hello cait
06:07 cait         hi francharb :)
05:59 francharb    hi dcook
05:59 dcook        morning, francharb
05:55 francharb    morning
05:39 cait         hi Oak :)
05:26 Oak          afternoon dcook :)
05:26 dcook        afternoon, Oak
05:24 Oak          kia ora #koha
05:24 Oak          guten morgen cait
05:23 Oak          hello mtompset :)
05:22 mtompset     Greetings, Oak
04:53 * mtompset   goes back to real non-koha work. :(
04:53 mtompset     And now I'm caught up. :)
04:52 mtompset     mtj, I run Ubuntu. :P
04:51 mtompset     Hey, there was a PS2Linux which was short lived. :)
04:51 mtompset     I was reading the install file for that. UGLY!
04:51 mtompset     GAH!
04:51 mtompset     OpenSuse?!
04:43 dcook        Thanks for the info, as always, rangi  :)
04:42 rangi        And now I need to go.
04:42 rangi        Thanks autocorrect
04:41 rangi        Evening = database
04:41 rangi        It doesn't reconfigure
04:41 rangi        (In packages that is)
04:41 rangi        And pulls in New dependencies
04:40 rangi        Upgrading copies files and updates the evening
04:40 rangi        Copying files is the easy bit
04:40 rangi        Most of the install is configuration
04:39 rangi        Not quite
04:39 dcook        So each time you update your installs, you're really re-installing?
04:39 rangi        Putting them in the right places
04:38 rangi        Pretty much yes
04:38 dcook        You're packaging up all the files from the git and putting them out, yes?
04:38 dcook        With packages...
04:38 dcook        Agreed. Variety is the spice of life
04:37 rangi        I'd like to see koha packaged and in all distros
04:36 rangi        Just need someone to package it
04:36 rangi        Quite a few Indian koha + suse users
04:35 dcook        Mmm, I do remember you mentioning rpm before, rangi
04:34 rangi        Unfortunately I know nothing about packaging other than debian
04:34 mtj          (safety in numbers, and all that...)
04:34 mtj          i'm the little baby gnu, that sticks close to the herd :)
04:33 mtj          ... only to discover a strange bug, that no-one can help me with :/
04:32 mtj          i dont wanna be the only guy in the world running production koha+openbsd systems
04:32 rangi        That does lots of rpm based stuff. It just needs someone to maintain rpm packages
04:31 rangi        Opensuse have a build system
04:31 mtj          if i discover a horrible ,horrible problem with my system - theres a very good chance someone else here has too
04:31 rangi        Suse
04:31 dcook        But...there are times when people don't necessarily have the option of using Debian
04:30 rangi        A valid other response would be packaging for side
04:30 dcook        I was talking to rangi the other day about how I will use Debian when I do my personal install
04:30 dcook        That makes sense
04:30 mtj          ... and that reason is because everyone else here does
04:29 mtj          theres a reason why i run everything on debian...
04:29 * dcook      is not the server admin
04:29 dcook        That's a question for someone other than me ;)
04:29 mtj          but seriously, ask yourself - is it worth the additional time/pain/problems of running koha on suse
04:28 dcook        Right...
04:27 mtj          nah, just kidding...
04:25 mtj          please helps!
04:25 mtj          yeah, i'm having lots of problems trying to do koha-development on my xbox?! :/
04:24 dcook        morning, cait :)
04:24 cait         morning :)
04:21 wahanui      dcook: that doesn't look right
04:21 dcook        Change OS? :P
04:21 mtj          ah yep... i know a great fix for that....
04:20 dcook        However, we can't use packages, since we're on opensuse
04:20 dcook        The plan is to develop in git
04:19 mtj          dcook:  and no to winmerge, yes to git
04:17 mtj          yep, thats all i'm asking... :)
04:16 dcook        Ca m'est égal. I clicked :P
04:15 * dcook      shrugs
04:15 mtj          my hunch is you're on one of those pages ;)
04:14 mtj          ps: the 'watcher' refresh on github is slow - for some specific pages
04:14 dcook        Actually, it says KohaAloha has no followers on the organization/community page as well
04:14 dcook        I know. I followed KohaAloha
04:14 mtj          ... so it cant 'watch' anything, as such
04:13 dcook        Am I looking for bugs in github? Maybe...
04:13 mtj          ' Koha-Community' is a organistation on github - not a user
04:13 dcook        It says the same, but my back-end stats for "followers" and "followed" haven't changed
04:12 mtj          says i'm following you - where $i eq 'kohaaloha'
04:05 dcook        Github says you're not following me and that I'm not following you though :o
04:05 dcook        Reciprocity is pretty awesome
04:04 mtj          sure i did - one good turn, deserves another
04:03 dcook        o rly?
04:03 * mtj        reciprocates dcook's favour , and follows him back...
04:02 dcook        Does anyone use any file merging tools such as WinMerge?
04:01 dcook        C'est moi
04:01 mtompset     keener! :P
04:00 dcook        Signed up and watching as well
03:59 mtj          cool, thanx for doing that :)
03:59 mtompset     I did click 'watch' though, mtj
03:58 mtompset     GAH! I have to subscribe.
03:57 mtompset     I can be a slacktivist -- unless I have to subscribe. :)
03:55 dcook        ...
03:55 dcook        Being a joiner is fun!
03:54 dcook        Sounds good
03:53 mtj          thats all...
03:52 mtj          yeah, i want people click teh little 'watch' button on it :)
03:51 dcook        mtj: you mean that you want people following it but only using it as a "next" resort, yes?
03:26 mtompset     But still... dangerous doesn't mean don't implement. :P
03:25 mtompset     I can see the danger.
03:25 mtj          thats potentially a dangerous feature, so it hasnt happened
03:25 mtompset     because that would be useful to do.
03:25 mtj          afaik
03:24 mtj          not automagically
03:23 mtompset     Is there a way to tell git the "backup location"?
03:23 mtompset     So, what if it was the other way around?
03:23 mtj          and some pretty graphs....
03:23 mtompset     Okay...
03:23 mtj          thats why...
03:22 mtj          if kc.org was down.... you could use that repo - its a mirror , sync-ed every hour
03:22 mtompset     I'm just asking as a person who is new to the whole use of git.
03:22 mtompset     why would I choose github over koha-community?
03:21 mtj          no, its the offical koha repo... on github
03:21 mtompset     The URL doesn't match.
03:21 mtompset     Is it the one listed here? ...
03:20 wahanui      well, git is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
03:20 mtompset     git?
03:13 mtj          s/following/watching/
03:10 mtj          why? for all the obvious reasons... ;)
03:10 mtj          -> https://github.com/Koha-Community
03:10 mtj          -> https://github.com/Koha-Community/Koha
03:09 mtj          attn: #koha any chance we could get more people 'following' the 'offical' koha repo on github? please...?
02:46 mtompset     Greetings, #koha.
01:26 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8204 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Stable , Authority viewer in OPAC ugly, unfriendly, and mostly useless
01:26 jenkins_koha * jcamins: Bug 8204: fix UNIMARC display
01:26 jenkins_koha * jcamins: Bug 8204: Add user friendly authority view to OPAC
01:26 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #110: SUCCESS in 1 hr 3 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/110/
00:49 Justin       No problem. Thanks. Bye for now
00:49 rangi        depending on the time of the day there are varying numbers of people actually at their keyboards here
00:48 Justin       Thanks. I will forward her a link for both
00:48 rangi        yep, here or the mailing list
00:47 Justin       Hi. I am introducing Koha to one of our schools and the librarian has some questions. I was wondering if I could direct her to here to see if she could get some answers?
00:23 jenkins_koha Starting build #110 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
00:16 dcook        Hmm, actually, case sensitivity still a problem. Just .inArray is definitely a good replacement..
00:12 dcook        Thanks for the reminder to give it another go ;)
00:11 rangi        sweet
00:10 dcook        I think that takes care of the case sensitivity and the lack of support for indexOf. Go jQuery!
00:10 dcook        Hmm, now I try it...and it works. Funny how you can spend a few continuous hours without success, but if you just wait until the next morning, everything flows easier.
00:07 dcook        I'll have to ask him if I continue to meet roadblocks
00:07 dcook        I tried using jQuery.inArray() last night, but I couldn't get it to work..
00:07 dcook        Hmm, good idea
00:06 rangi        id drop owen a note theres not a lot he doesnt know about jquery
00:06 rangi        :)
00:05 dcook        Mind you, if the jQuery datatables were better, I wouldn't have to do anything :p
00:04 dcook        I'm thinking that's what I had better do
00:03 rangi        mostly cos it handles the crossbrowser issues better than i could
00:03 rangi        always just use jquery
00:03 rangi        i try never to write straight js anymore
00:03 dcook        Mind you, it could be that my code is problematic
00:03 rangi        yep
00:02 dcook        Well, I suppose the case sensitivity is a JS issue, but IE changing how it capitalizes html elements is irritating..
00:01 dcook        Damn straight
00:01 huginn       rangi: Karma for "explorer" has been increased 0 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of -1.
00:01 rangi        @karma explorer
00:01 dcook        IE--
00:01 huginn       rangi: Karma for "ie" has been increased 0 times and decreased 42 times for a total karma of -42.
00:01 rangi        @karma ie
00:01 * dcook      thinks that he may have found his problem. Damn case sensitivity
00:01 rangi        there we go
00:01 huginn       rangi: Karma for "IE" has been increased 0 times and decreased 42 times for a total karma of -42.
00:01 rangi        @karma IE
00:01 rangi        ahhh
00:00 dcook        :O
00:00 rangi        explorer--
00:00 rangi        hmmm
00:00 huginn       rangi: for ie has neutral karma.
00:00 rangi        @karma for ie
00:00 rangi        ie--
00:00 rangi        what!
00:00 huginn       rangi: for ie has neutral karma.
00:00 rangi        @karma for ie
00:00 huginn       rangi: for IE has neutral karma.
00:00 rangi        @karma for IE
00:00 dcook        Signifies the same thing?