Time  Nick         Message
23:36 * dcook      shudders
23:36 dcook        Whoa, comma splice...
23:34 dcook        Nope. No packages
23:34 dcook        Excellent. Merci, beaucoup
23:34 rangi        s
23:34 rangi        unless you are using package
23:34 rangi        thats it
23:34 jcamins      misc/remove_items_from_biblioitems.pl
23:33 dcook        By chance, rangi, do you recall what that script is to handle the de-952ing of records from 3.2?
23:32 rangi        morning dcook
23:32 dcook        Morning #koha
23:00 wahanui      wahanui has karma of 12
23:00 jcamins_away karma for wahanui
23:00 wahanui      huginn has karma of 4
23:00 jcamins_away karma for huginn
23:00 jcamins_away Hehe... much better chance of catchin up to people.
23:00 wahanui      rangi has karma of 381
23:00 jcamins_away karma for rangi
22:11 wahanui      jcamins has karma of 327
22:11 rangi        karma for jcamins
22:11 rangi        lucky wahanui tracks karma too
22:11 rangi        jcamins++ # good reply
22:06 * jcamins    goes to get his veggies.
22:06 rangi        brb
22:06 rangi        :)
22:06 rangi        i guess i ought to get coffee
22:01 jcamins      [off] Guess I ought to respond to Paul.
22:01 rangi        http://fullfathomcollections.blogspot.co.nz/2012/06/keys-catalog-how-to-libx-plugin.html <-- quite cool
21:37 trea         rangi++
21:37 trea         got it thx
21:37 rangi        as soon as the futuredate is less than now
21:36 trea         that should read "at what point in the future do hold requests"
21:35 trea         hi koha - question about the AllowHoldDateInFuture syspref - at that point to future hold requests enter into the holds queue?
21:34 jcamins      Thanks.
21:34 jcamins      Woohoo!
21:34 libsysguy    awesome…but slow
21:34 drojf        jcamins: but it's le thé
21:34 libsysguy    haha yeah he is like…dude its slow
21:34 jcamins      Sorry, I should have said that irssi is currently refusing Unicode input.
21:33 rangi        Date::Manip is big slow, and slow, also did i say slow, the author themself says dont use it
21:33 drojf        nevermind
21:33 drojf        i lack them
21:33 drojf        reading skills
21:33 drojf        oh
21:33 drojf        les is plural
21:33 drojf        le is male, la is female
21:32 jcamins      I believe the proper definite article for the French word The is "le" but it'd be nice to have confirmation without needing to get my French dictionary from the other room.
21:31 jcamins      Any French speakers around?
21:29 libsysguy    we love you back wizzyrea
21:29 wizzyrea     i love you guys.
21:29 wizzyrea     :)
21:29 libsysguy    hehe
21:28 * wizzyrea   nods
21:28 wahanui      libsysguy is Koha's hottest developer or partying with swedes on his deck
21:28 wizzyrea     libsysguy?
21:28 libsysguy    looks at wizzyrea with "the look"
21:28 cait         good night all :)
21:28 jcamins      wizzyrea: have one, I think. ;)
21:28 libsysguy    have you ever used date manip
21:28 wizzyrea     stroke what
21:28 jcamins      Why?
21:28 libsysguy    but rangi might stroke
21:28 libsysguy    if I could just use the data structure that Date::Manip uses I think i'd be good
21:27 jcamins      Actually, you might want to look at the data structure used by programs that interface with ICS.
21:27 drojf        no google in my koha
21:27 libsysguy    but you need a google account
21:27 libsysguy    I mean…i could…there is a module for that
21:27 jcamins      Hehe.
21:26 libsysguy    too bad I can't just interface with google calendar p
21:25 libsysguy    so i am scouring the internet for a good calendar schema so I can have a way to model my data in perl
21:25 jcamins      Right.
21:25 libsysguy    representing that data is hard
21:24 libsysguy    so the perl part of the test is easy
21:24 libsysguy    I don't want an array of 60 in the db just hogging up rows
21:24 jcamins      Hm.
21:23 jcamins      Uhhh...
21:23 libsysguy    im trying to decide if I want to continue on the path of numbering off days/hours/minutes in an array :-/
21:23 libsysguy    haha yeah I am working on the tests
21:22 jcamins      Oh, no, but at least he's planning to write tests first. :)
21:20 jcamins      libsysguy++
21:20 jcamins      Woohoo!
21:20 jcamins      libsysguy is using DBD::Mock?
21:14 cait         it's time to kill it
21:14 drojf        cait: with that syspref you can never know
21:13 cait         [off] oh, I read " do use zebra "
21:10 drojf        [off] 'With preference set to "do not use zebra",' …i'll pass
21:09 rangi        [off] can't deal with that mail, someone elses turn
21:03 libsysguy    chris_n seriously :p
21:03 libsysguy    heh
21:03 rangi        as far as i care
21:03 rangi        as long as its not slow, is well documented and tested, you coudl write it in swahili
21:03 libsysguy    but not as in depth as I am here heh
21:02 libsysguy    I've pinged him some
21:02 rangi        you probably want to talk to jcamins tho, as RM in waiting
21:02 libsysguy    ok, im not sure how far I want to chase that :p
21:01 rangi        so its available to be used
21:01 rangi        but by using moose, dbix::class is in there
21:01 libsysguy    I want that to be an acrynom that comes out to the equivalent of "Every module under the sun"
21:01 rangi        but to each their own
21:01 rangi        frankly is still just prefer class::accessor
21:00 libsysguy    oh moose
21:00 rangi        the solr code uses moose
21:00 rangi        you could
21:00 libsysguy    so sometimes I get them mixed up
20:59 libsysguy    that is what I have been doing in catalyst
20:59 libsysguy    but not in a way that I could write a Class for a DB object
20:59 rangi        indirectly yes
20:58 libsysguy    we don't use DBIx::Class do we
20:58 rangi        and test that we still get the correct due_dates, or fines leveled
20:57 rangi        we can mock that up
20:57 rangi        we dont even need to populate a db with holidays or opening and closing times etc
20:57 libsysguy    well that is handy
20:57 rangi        http://search.cpan.org/~dichi/DBD-Mock-1.43/lib/DBD/Mock.pm
20:57 rangi        also
20:57 rangi        but that should be easily testable
20:57 libsysguy    thats why im pestering atm lol
20:56 libsysguy    im working on closing/opening times
20:56 rangi        yeah calendars, closing and opening times, those are where the current issues occur
20:56 libsysguy    lol drojf it will never be fixed
20:56 drojf        is it fixed now?
20:56 drojf        was?
20:55 cait         well to me at least :)
20:55 libsysguy    well after the foo bar that hourly was I suppose it does need to be started with tests :p
20:55 rangi        also, this must have been done before
20:55 cait         it's only calendars cause headaches
20:55 rangi        and its a pretty well contained, well defined area
20:54 libsysguy    haha
20:54 rangi        ie, if we know how we want it to work, we can build a data structure that enables it
20:54 libsysguy    ok
20:54 rangi        not the other way round
20:54 rangi        should influence representation
20:54 rangi        knowing what you want the data to do
20:53 rangi        yes
20:53 libsysguy    but you think a testing plan is still the way to go
20:53 libsysguy    well I was going to start with a way to represent in in the database
20:52 drojf        oh we do it the other way around now? :P
20:51 rangi        but seriously starting with  a test plan, and a unit test ... means we are way less likely to cause more issues than we fix
20:51 libsysguy    ^^ with the thickest southern drawl you can imagine
20:51 libsysguy    if rangi ain't happy…aint nobody happy
20:51 * libsysguy  is here to make rangi happy
20:51 libsysguy    haha
20:51 rangi        and ill be happy
20:50 rangi        then write the code to pass those tests
20:50 rangi        write the tests first
20:48 * libsysguy  thinks everyone should run away heh
20:48 libsysguy    anybody up to pointing out some mistakes im about to make :p
20:48 libsysguy    on an unrelated note I kind of want to discuss changing the way Koha::Calendar works
20:47 libsysguy    like 3.10 Koha 'BBQ Ribs'
20:47 libsysguy    a recibe
20:47 drojf        libsysguy: boring stuff like icecream sandwhich is taken. if we come up with a cool recipe per version that would work i think
20:45 * wizzyrea   appreciates that he waited
20:45 wizzyrea     bye oleonard
20:45 libsysguy    well I guess animals are taken as well as deserts
20:45 oleonard     see ya #koha
20:45 drojf        lol i like how the last commit in docs is from rangi, 3 years ago @ link
20:45 * oleonard   heads out
20:44 cjh          haha
20:44 drojf        koha 3.10 'fancy fried fudge'
20:44 cjh          koha 3.9.0 'awesome'
20:44 rangi        we could do that
20:44 rangi        for major versions?
20:44 cjh          rangi: shouldnt that be liblime academic KOHA 5.0?
20:43 libsysguy    [off] https://github.com/ctfliblime/LibLime-Koha
20:43 rangi        liblime academic koha 5.0
20:43 drojf        that reminds me, what about koha release names? we should really have this
20:42 cait         since when?
20:42 cait         !
20:42 rangi        5 now
20:42 cait         hey, they are already at version 4
20:41 cait         lol
20:41 rangi        (in terms of zebra/solr that is)
20:41 oleonard     Just imagine how much more behind they'd be if they weren't so agile.
20:41 drojf        i know a blog that might fit their installation needs ;)
20:41 drojf        must be fun
20:40 rangi        but its to replace zebra ... they are koha 2009 stage still
20:40 rangi        yup
20:37 wizzyrea     stacy is from waldo though?
20:32 drojf        probably even
20:32 drojf        it probabyl won't fix anything if they do it the ll way
20:31 rangi        [off] they are switching to solr, it was in the SCLS minutes i suspect she is trying to see if tht will actually fix anything or just compound the problem
20:29 rangi        searching, circulation, virtual shelves, peoples lives
20:29 rangi        it's what they do
20:29 rangi        it's their MO
20:29 oleonard     True. Did they mess up the searching as well?
20:28 rangi        we all know that
20:28 rangi        their system is broken
20:28 oleonard     The real question is why she thinks having stopwords would help. Sounds like an unresolved searching problem.
20:26 cait         hm
20:26 rangi        not by choice tho
20:26 rangi        yes, she is
20:26 * oleonard   wonders if Stacy reads the list when she's not posting to it
20:25 drojf        isn't she using ll anyway?
20:24 cait         not with a list
20:24 * rangi      points stacy to the thread with brooke and jcamins
20:24 cait         or with indicators
20:24 cait         but you do that with non filing characters normally
20:24 cait         yes
20:24 rangi        that makes sense
20:24 rangi        well stop words for sorting
20:24 cait         what is the point of having a list of words that is not searchable??
20:24 rangi        habit
20:24 cait         I mean seriously
20:23 cait         why would a library want stop words?
20:23 cait         too true :)
20:23 rangi        just some silliness, but silliness makes life enjoyable :)
20:21 jcamins      Okay, time to head home.
20:21 rangi        tells you the score for each build
20:21 rangi        http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/790/cigame/
20:20 * wizzyrea   likes forward momentum
20:20 rangi        the build would be worth 1 at that point
20:20 rangi        yep
20:20 wizzyrea     -1 for breaking something
20:20 wizzyrea     so +2 for a new test
20:20 wizzyrea     :P
20:20 wizzyrea     what about 2 steps forward, one step back
20:20 rangi        so you should get points for that
20:20 wizzyrea     well
20:20 rangi        increasing testing coverage gets points
20:20 rangi        -1 for every test that fails
20:19 jcamins      I'll never get any points.
20:19 jcamins      Humbug.
20:19 rangi        -10 for breaking a build
20:19 rangi        you get 1 point for each new test that passes
20:19 rangi        build 790 for master, got 3 points
20:19 rangi        each build gets a score allocated
20:18 oleonard     What are the scores based on?
20:18 rangi        http://jenkins.koha-community.org/cigame/?
20:17 rangi        out even
20:17 rangi        check this our
20:17 drojf        heh
20:16 rangi        lol
20:16 oleonard     Did you tell him we were coming over there to rough him up?
20:16 drojf        "I'll be away from work through Friday 7/27 and will be checking my work email only infrequently. Once I return to work I'll get back to you as soon as I'm able."
20:15 * drojf      sent an email to the blog guy
20:11 Shane-S      I at least cut my install down from 1 day to 4 hours to 2 hours. Packages are lovely and knowing what to fix ahead of time helps :)
20:11 Shane-S      well thanks very much for the help, I will be back often soon as I have to begin getting this system live
20:09 Shane-S      but for now it is just our main school library, then I will look into adding faculty books/videos to keep track of them
20:09 * oleonard   doesn't know
20:09 jcamins      oleonard: yeah, but doesn't it break holds or something?
20:09 Shane-S      I "may" add a small building lending library down the road
20:08 oleonard     Won't turning on singlebranchmode remove that box?
20:08 jcamins      Right, so don't worry about that box.
20:08 Shane-S      We only have 1 Library is why I asked
20:08 oleonard     Shane-S: You are running a multi-branch system?
20:08 jcamins      You'll have everyone checking things out from the wrong library by default.
20:07 Shane-S      ah okay, I will just say "ignore it" then :P
20:07 jcamins      Good point, oleonard.
20:07 jcamins      Yes, but better to just tell them what "My library" means.
20:07 oleonard     Shane-S: I don't think that's easier.
20:07 oleonard     Shane-S: If you remove it your user will always have to choose their library manually
20:07 jcamins      Shane-S: I believe you can use intranetuserjs to do that.
20:07 Shane-S      okay, but is it something I can remove for my user who might not understand that?
20:05 jcamins      Shane-S: "My library" is a synonym for "the library that my user is attached to."
20:05 Shane-S      quick question on the admin login screen it defaults to "My Library" in the bottom drop down. Can I remove that so just the library(ies) we setup appear?
20:05 drojf        he has an "about"-page, a "contact"-page that is the same "about"-page and we should contact him via his website. for somebody doing business of some kind it seems like a weird contacting philosophy to not even have an email address somewhere
19:59 jcamins      lol
19:59 drojf        "but i'm not interested in koha anymore" -- "but i get visitors"
19:59 JoeLib001    Hehe. ;-)
19:58 jcamins      What about "okay, then, update your damn guide so that it doesn't result in broken systems."
19:58 drojf        "i get visitors" -- "my information is outdated" -- "but i get visitors" …
19:57 drojf        yup :(
19:57 jcamins      Guess they didn't like losing traffic.
19:57 drojf        jcamins: i think so, yes. but it does not seem to be there
19:56 rangi        Bbiab
19:56 rangi        Ok my stop
19:56 jcamins      drojf: didn't you comment on that post to tell them that it was out of date?
19:56 JoeLib001    Where is the docs folder at in koha?
19:55 * cait       waves
19:55 mib_vdxzbe   k
19:55 mib_vdxzbe   o
19:55 jcamins      The instructions on the wiki are accurate.
19:55 jcamins      That will not be helpful. :(
19:55 jcamins      That's four years old.
19:55 jcamins      Oh my.
19:55 jcamins      `tar zxvf koha-3.08.03.tar.gz`
19:55 mib_vdxzbe   i have been fallowing this http://www.blazingmoon.org/news/2008/12/install-koha-on-ubuntu-part-4-koha/
19:55 jcamins      I would do the following: `mv /build/koha-3.08.03 /build/koha-3.08.03-old`
19:54 mib_vdxzbe   oh
19:54 jcamins      perl-ldap-0.38 has nothing to do with Koha.
19:54 jcamins      You need to start over, I think.
19:54 mib_vdxzbe   ok ,well now it says, ERROR from evaluation of /build/koha-3.08.03/perl-ldap-0.38/Makefile.PL: Cannot find an extension with method 'Meta_ArrayKeys' at /usr/share/perl5/Module/Install/Admin.pm line 186.
19:53 drojf        heh
19:53 jcamins      ^^ that page should have good, detailed instructions.
19:53 wahanui      it has been said that koha on ubuntu is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
19:53 jcamins      koha on ubuntu?
19:53 jcamins      mib_vdxzbe: what instructions are you following?
19:52 mib_vdxzbe   oh
19:52 jcamins      The Koha tarballs don't include a directory called perl-ldap-0.38.
19:52 mib_vdxzbe   maybe
19:52 JoeLib001    wizzyrea: Yeah, I don't much care to create another account. Not to mention I would be using their hosting and such. Google already has part of my soul. I don't need to give another part of it. hehe. ;-)
19:52 jcamins      You must have downloaded it manually?
19:51 mib_vdxzbe   oh, well i'm not sure what it is
19:51 jcamins      It's on your system.
19:51 mib_vdxzbe   no idea
19:51 jcamins      What is perl-ldap-0.38, though?
19:51 mib_vdxzbe   ok
19:50 jcamins      You should try `sudo apt-get install libmodule-install-perl` to install Module::Install.
19:50 mib_vdxzbe   i'm running the makefile.pl
19:50 mib_vdxzbe   no
19:50 jcamins      mib_vdxzbe: but you are currently installing perl-ldap 0.38?
19:49 mib_vdxzbe   trying to install koha
19:49 jcamins      mib_vdxzbe: no idea. Use the packages for whatever it is you're trying to install.
19:48 drojf        but mp4 and mkv seems to work
19:48 mib_vdxzbe   how do i fix it?
19:48 JoeLib001    wizzyrea: Somewhat. Haven't looked into it.
19:48 wizzyrea     (if you don't want to, say, run a koha instance)
19:48 drojf        unfortunately html5 does not play avi
19:48 mib_vdxzbe   oh
19:48 jcamins      The other one has nothing to do with Koha.
19:48 mib_vdxzbe   but it stops
19:48 drojf        heh nice. i think about making koha my video library
19:48 jcamins      The Unparsable version error can just be ignored.
19:48 wizzyrea     JoeLib001: are you familiar with librarything?
19:48 jcamins      Ah, I didn't see the last error.
19:47 JoeLib001    I've been thinking about creating a catalog of my own books, dvds, games, etc. That way when I see something I like and don't remember if I bought it yet. I can just search it. hehe.
19:47 mib_vdxzbe   jcamins, i did what you said, still says Unparsable version '' for prerequisite Test::Strict at Makefile.PL line 557. ERROR from evaluation of /build/koha-3.08.03/perl-ldap-0.38/Makefile.PL: Can't locate Module/Install/Admin.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /build/koha-3.08.03 /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.12.4 /usr/local/share/perl/5.12.4 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/sha
19:45 JoeLib001    Sweet. :-) I like it.
19:45 drojf        :)
19:45 wahanui      Raspberry Pi embedded computers run Koha just fine. :) See http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_a_Raspberry_Pi
19:45 jcamins      raspberry pi?
19:45 jcamins      raspberry pi is <reply> Raspberry Pi embedded computers run Koha just fine. :) See http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_a_Raspberry_Pi
19:44 wahanui      jcamins: I forgot raspberry pi
19:44 jcamins      forget raspberry pi
19:44 wahanui      raspberry pi is arm-based
19:44 jcamins      raspberry pi?
19:44 drojf        JoeLib001: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_a_Raspberry_Pi
19:44 JoeLib001    Cool. :-)
19:43 mib_vdxzbe   aw :(
19:43 drojf        yeah i just saw there is not much about what it actually is on that page :) it caches a lot of stuff and makes pages load faster
19:43 wahanui      i think bob is doing sys admins now
19:43 mib_vdxzbe   bob?
19:43 mib_vdxzbe   bob is <reply> Bob is an awsome dude
19:42 wahanui      Plack is a FastCGI thingy that works with Koha. See http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Plack for more information.
19:42 jcamins      plack?
19:42 jcamins      Plack is <reply> Plack is a FastCGI thingy that works with Koha. See http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Plack for more information.
19:41 wahanui      jcamins: I forgot plack
19:41 jcamins      wahanui: forget plack
19:41 wahanui      http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Plack is, like, probably good place to get started with latest development
19:41 drojf        http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Plack
19:41 wahanui      plack is working quite nice.
19:41 JoeLib001    What is plack?
19:40 drojf        without it's horribly slow
19:40 drojf        with plack it runs ok
19:40 JoeLib001    Hmm......
19:40 JoeLib001    Yeah, figured the kind of. Probably would work well for a small collection though.
19:40 drojf        i develop on it
19:40 drojf        yes
19:40 JoeLib001    Really?
19:40 drojf        kind of :)
19:40 drojf        works well!
19:40 JoeLib001    :-)
19:40 JoeLib001    Hahahaha! No.
19:39 mib_vdxzbe   thanks
19:39 JoeLib001    Yeah. Would be an interesting project to see about making it water tight. Would need special connectors and such probably.
19:39 drojf        JoeLib001: installed koha on the raspberry pi already? :P
19:39 jcamins      Step 1 or 2 on the page is how to add the apt repo.
19:39 mib_vdxzbe   haha
19:39 jcamins      I didn't remember the URL, and I knew our bot had it somewhere in its memory. ;)
19:39 mib_vdxzbe   so get that?
19:39 mib_vdxzbe   ok
19:39 mib_vdxzbe   oh
19:39 jcamins      That's what I was looking for ^^
19:39 wahanui      koha on debian is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.8_on_Debian_Squeeze
19:39 jcamins      koha on debian?
19:39 mib_vdxzbe   ubuntu
19:39 drojf        but it has holes for the cables of course, so it won't swim well. at least not without the raspi dying
19:39 wahanui      debian is what most people use and there are good manuals and even packages for that
19:39 jcamins      debian?
19:38 JoeLib001    Yeah, my lego case would not protect it from water very well. Lots of open space around the connectors.
19:38 mib_vdxzbe   how do i add the apt repo?
19:38 JoeLib001    Cool. :-)
19:38 drojf        it was tight enough for the bottle of water i poured over my desk shortly after i made the case :D
19:38 mib_vdxzbe   Ok
19:37 jcamins      There is a patch to fix the first (but you can ignore it), and the others can be installed from the apt repo at debian.koha-community.org
19:37 wahanui      hmmm... anybody is here
19:37 mib_vdxzbe   anybody?
19:37 JoeLib001    Hehe. :-) Is it water tight?
19:37 drojf        but then these things were lying around
19:37 drojf        that was what i wanted to do :)
19:37 jcamins      mib_vdxzbe: those are just warnings. You should be able to ignore them.
19:36 JoeLib001    I made mine out of legos. :-)
19:36 jcamins      JoeLib001: it saved the raspberry pi from dunking in soda.
19:36 JoeLib001    Hehe. :-)
19:36 drojf        JoeLib001: it had a good size ;)
19:36 mib_vdxzbe   Can anyone help me, this is the error i am getting, Unparsable version '' for prerequisite Test::Strict at Makefile.PL line 557. Warning: prerequisite CGI::Session::Driver::memcached 0.04 not found. Warning: prerequisite Template::Plugin::HtmlToText 0.03 not found. Warning: prerequisite Test::Strict 0 not found. ERROR from evaluation of /build/koha-3.08.03/pe
19:36 mib_vdxzbe   hello
19:36 JoeLib001    drojf: You made a raspberry pi case from a lunchbox?
19:35 jcamins      Yup.
19:35 rangi        But for now changing mapping and hoping for the best is about it
19:34 rangi        Yep
19:34 jcamins      Also, we'd have to get rid of GRS-1, but that was always just an awful idea.
19:34 jcamins      (not that 090 is that dumb)
19:34 drojf        lol
19:34 jcamins      No problem.
19:34 jcamins      Want to map something to somewhere dumb?
19:33 rangi        Yep
19:33 jcamins      Ya know, we could actually fix this, once the search rewrite was completed.
19:33 rangi        0 chance that will work
19:32 jcamins      Yeah.
19:32 jcamins      Heh.
19:32 rangi        Items in 090
19:31 drojf        and ?
19:31 * jcamins    isn't quite sure what latter is in response to.
19:31 drojf        hey rangi
19:30 rangi        And zomg
19:30 rangi        Morning
19:21 drojf        nice, fast reply from ddg
19:17 drojf        yes indeed :D i wanted to get microhosting for that money, but those people did not really answer my emails, so i thought i'd just try this, how bad can it be for that price ;) i don't really have money to spend on such things at the moment
19:15 jcamins      drojf: No wonder service is so problematic- that's absurdly inexpensive!
19:13 drojf        and i should find out how to make them anonymize my logs. it took only two weeks to get them to reenable me to install mediawiki in my db, so a service they don't advertise can surely only take a few months (or a "no"). that's what you get for 2,50 a month
19:11 drojf        but you should switch to piwik :)
19:10 drojf        speaking of that, it's really scary what stuff i can see about people visiting my website, the hoster has urchin running for everybody, which i think is pre-google anayltics
19:09 jcamins      Speaking of Google, I need to switch to Piwik.
19:09 jcamins      wizzyrea: I think so.
19:08 drojf        also google sends me 2-3 people every day to look at my ikea lunch box raspberry pi case :D
19:08 wizzyrea     is batch patron mod new?
19:06 drojf        and other junk
19:06 drojf        i had the impression that a lot of the hits for people _selling_ stuff that i want to read _about_ (and not buy) have vanished. i like that
19:05 wizzyrea     google changed their ranking/relevancy algorithm
19:05 drojf        but yes, while ddg seemed sucky, google looked less sucky than before
19:04 wizzyrea     right I"m talking in the last 2 months
19:04 drojf        so that can't be it for me
19:04 drojf        i almost never used google the last two years
19:04 wizzyrea     so it's possible that google just recently got a lot better.
19:04 wizzyrea     well google just did a huuuuuuge push on relevancy
19:00 drojf        http://duck.co/topic/relavency-in-ddg-and-google-result#28469000001212063 seems like they know it already
18:58 drojf        but i regoogle almost everything at the moment
18:57 drojf        no idea what is going on
18:57 drojf        was
18:57 jcamins      I thought ddg was supposed to have excellent relevancy?
18:57 drojf        which annoyed me a lot when i searched fot he ssh thing
18:57 drojf        jcamins: thanks, i stopped looking for it to write an email to duckduckgo that the relevancy of their search results has become horrible
18:55 jcamins      You have it set up to listen on a specific IP.
18:55 jcamins      drojf: if you didn't figure it out yet, I realized what the problem probably is with sshd.
18:25 Morthland    How can I set a default item type?
18:24 * jcamins    has been on a no-bake dessert kick recently.
18:24 drojf        :)
18:22 jcamins      I could roll the truffles in coconut!
18:22 jcamins      Oooh.
18:19 jcamins      I'd never heard of that.
18:16 drojf        do i have to restart sshd after a new interface comes up? i can't connect via wifi, also not eth0 if i plug it in later (not at boot)
18:01 drojf        lol
18:00 jcamins      I presume the theory is that we must be stupid since we're giving away our work, so maybe we won't make the connection.
18:00 drojf        also the way of using a new nick every time you come in. makes it seem like you know you should be hiding
18:00 jcamins      Even pulled up a web browser to find the name of the element.
17:59 jcamins      If s/he had tried *at all* I would've explained how to do it.
17:58 drojf        i really wonder if it is a language thing or a culture thing or a person thing. this way of interaction
17:57 jcamins      drojf: I probably shouldn't have said anything.
17:57 jcamins      Heh.
17:57 drojf        unlike someone else
17:56 jcamins      Hey, you're the one who did all the figuring things out. :)
17:56 JoeLib001    Thanks for the help guys. :-)
17:56 JoeLib001    I will have to look at our Acquisitions process and make sure we add an item when we create the record.
17:54 JoeLib001    Yeah, once I add an item to one of the records everything works.
17:52 jcamins      You could also find another OPAC that does that, and take a look at the CSS they used.
17:52 qwerty       yes am looking for changing background in search bar
17:50 jcamins      I think probably if you set the 'background' CSS property for the search bar, that would work.
17:49 qwerty       i want to add out library building is in opac background on search bar
17:49 jcamins      qwerty: it's the same way you would change the background for any other page.
17:47 qwerty       in opacusercss .tell me the script
17:47 jcamins      qwerty: you might look there for ideas. ^^
17:47 wahanui      oleonard's blog is http://www.myacpl.org/koha
17:47 jcamins      oleonard's blog
17:45 jcamins      qwerty: you can use CSS.
17:44 qwerty       how to change the opac background with our image file
17:43 JoeLib001    So, we probably need to add the item to the book as soon as we enter the order in Acquisitions?
17:42 JoeLib001    I have it so that it doesn't create the item until we "receive" the book.
17:42 JoeLib001    The labels are for our book acquisitions. So maybe, I need to work out how we are doing the Acquistions then.
17:41 jcamins      JoeLib001: well, maybe the label tool requires items.
17:41 jenkins_koha * julian.maurice: Bug 8376: New script to export borrowers misc/export_borrowers.pl
17:41 jenkins_koha * dcook: Bug 8434 - Notice generation fails for Advanced Notices, Item Due, and Overdues when run in shell (due to error in Letters.pm)
17:41 jenkins_koha * magnus: Bug 7367 - One "the" too many
17:41 jenkins_koha * m.de.rooy: 8062 Followup for HTML::FormatText
17:41 jenkins_koha * f.demians: Bug 8392: Avoid having an untranslatable age range
17:41 jenkins_koha * ruth: Bug 8392: Category age ranges not being enforced
17:41 jenkins_koha * fridolyn.somers: Bug 8440: Dates does not appear in suggestions management
17:41 jenkins_koha * dcook: Bug 8414 - Intranet header toplinks display white rather than blue in < IE8
17:41 jenkins_koha * dcook: Bug 8448 - Holds Awaiting Pickup : Cancelling a hold on a waiting item with multiple holds displays a blank screen instead of a warning prompt
17:41 jenkins_koha * dpavlin: Bug 8442 - labels creator fixes for plack
17:41 jenkins_koha * kyle.m.hall: BugFix - ReturnToShelvingCart
17:41 jenkins_koha * dpavlin: Bug 8439 - Printing basketgroup does not work on plack
17:41 jenkins_koha * fridolyn.somers: Bug 8476: Little bug in OPAC XSLT on OPACURLOpenInNewWindow
17:41 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #790: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 3 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/790/
17:40 JoeLib001    I opted not to add items per Journal Subscription creation.
17:40 JoeLib001    All I have are records.
17:40 JoeLib001    I don't have any items in my database yet.
17:39 jcamins      Sounds like you have a seriously screwed up database.
17:39 JoeLib001    Looks like I don't have a profile id either. Which is odd as there are profiles with profile IDs.
17:39 jcamins      That's a problem.
17:37 JoeLib001    Cannot add or update a child row: a foreign key constraint fails (`koha`.`creator_batches`, CONSTRAINT `creator_batches_ibfk_3` FOREIGN KEY (`item_number`) REFERENCES `items` (`itemnumber`) ON DELETE CASCADE) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Creators/Batch.pm line 72
17:37 JoeLib001    Here is part of one of my errors.
17:37 jcamins      JoeLib001: probably you need an item, but I don't really know.
17:37 JoeLib001    I have a whole slew of errors in my error log too.
17:36 JoeLib001    I can't add an "item" to the Batch Label Queue. I don't have an item associated with the record. Would that be my problem?
17:34 JoeLib001    Well, I use the term hacked loosely as I didn't do much work. :-)
17:32 JoeLib001    Hehe, I hacked my tomtom and added a mp3 player, a video player, and a linux boot image. ;-)
17:30 jcamins      (though at least you could use FreeDOS, I suppose...)
17:29 jcamins      At least it doesn't require DOS, I guess?
17:29 jcamins      limon_away: well that's ironic.
17:29 limon_away   I bought my TomTom specifically because it runs on Linux. Hate the Windows-only "My TomTom" interface for updates.
16:56 paul_p_      OK, time to leave for me now. "passed QA" queue almost empty. Busy afternoon !
16:55 drojf        bye kf
16:55 kf           bye all
16:55 paul_p_      yep, that's what I understood.
16:55 jcamins      :(
16:55 drojf        paul_p_: later does not work
16:55 jcamins      paul_p_: no huginn.
16:54 paul_p_      @later tell nengard  = pls look at http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8392#c11
16:54 paul_p_      nengard_lunch = pls look at http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8392#c11
16:47 mtompset     It's 12:45am... I just barely made it to 5.2 in my modified instructions for Ubuntu.
16:47 drojf        "Skype, together with Norton, Adobe and TomTom, is spreading the word about why it's important to keep your software in top condition" lol. a bunch of companies whose software's deinstallation would be the best update
16:47 wizzyrea     you should have seen it before we fixed it the last time.
16:47 JoeLib001    Hehe. :-)
16:47 wizzyrea     fix it then :P
16:46 mtompset     It's as bad as UBUNTU's!
16:46 drojf        the alice game i mean
16:46 drojf        not in the debian packages it seems :P
16:46 mtompset     I was looking at INSTALL.debian.
16:45 oleonard     Alice computer game?
16:44 wizzyrea     had nightmares for weeks.
16:44 * wizzyrea   played that game
16:43 JoeLib001    Will do.
16:43 JoeLib001    I think the Alice computer game was probably more correct than the original movie. :-)
16:43 wizzyrea     do let us know what you find though.
16:42 wizzyrea     WE JUST DON'T KNOW :) :)
16:42 wizzyrea     could also be an alternate universe where the laws of physics are completely different from the ones we know here.
16:42 mtompset     wizzyrea++ # yay for optimism!
16:42 JoeLib001    Could be. Hehe. :-)
16:42 wizzyrea     never know.
16:42 wizzyrea     or it might be a portal to a magical land of happiness and wonder.
16:41 JoeLib001    Yeah, we'll see where the dark rabbit hole leads. It might not have a bottom or it might have spikes at the bottom. :-)
16:40 wizzyrea     yep, and if you do, submit a patch
16:40 jcamins      JoeLib001: I am sure it is possible. I have no idea how much work it would involve.
16:40 JoeLib001    Can I make it? :-)
16:40 jcamins      I think.
16:39 jcamins      That is correct.
16:39 JoeLib001    I was reading the help on Labels and it says: "Currently all fields in the following tables are used: items, biblioitems, biblio, branches" Does that mean I can't use fields from aqorders and o?
16:38 jcamins      :)
16:38 wizzyrea     there we go
16:38 wahanui      If you're developing, you should use git. If you're not developing on a deb-based system, you should use packages. If you're not developing on a different flavour of Linux, you should use the tarball.
16:38 wizzyrea     which install to use?
16:38 jcamins      which install do wahanui use?
16:38 drojf        bad bot
16:38 * wizzyrea   will try again
16:38 jcamins      which install do wizzyrea use?
16:38 wizzyrea     aw
16:38 jcamins      which install do I use?
16:37 wizzyrea     which install do I use is <reply> If you're developing, you should use git. If you're not developing on a deb-based system, you should use packages. If you're not developing on a different flavour of Linux, you should use the tarball.
16:37 jenkins_koha Starting build #790 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #773 20 days ago)
16:37 kf           translatable koct a full success :)
16:37 jcamins      Right. If you're developing, you should use git. If you're not developing on a deb-based system, you should use packages. If you're not developing on a different flavour of Linux, you should use the tarball.
16:36 mtompset     So the method of installation is really a combination of what OS am I on and what will I be doing.
16:35 mtompset     Correct.
16:35 jcamins      And even then it's not a good idea, if you're on a deb-based system.
16:35 jcamins      Right.
16:34 mtompset     Then it would seem that the tarball is best for "only one site ever".
16:34 jcamins      Right.
16:34 mtompset     okay... and koha-common is purposefully suited to multiple-sites, but you only have to install one site?
16:33 jcamins      You can't do a useful development install from a tarball, either.
16:33 jcamins      mtompset: no, one does development installs with git.
16:32 mtompset     Oh, another question, while I think of it... can you do a meaningful development install off of koha-common?
16:32 JoeLib001    I will look at that then. :-) Thanks.
16:32 jcamins      JoeLib001: no, the reports module doesn't do barcode slips. You might have more luck with the label tool.
16:31 JoeLib001    Hello. :-) Has anyone used the Koha Reports to create a "Barcode Slip". The Barcode Slip I need to create needs to be printable in a 3x5 format. I know all of the fields and have created a test report with the data I need.
16:30 jcamins      Right.
16:29 jcamins      That's pretty critical if you want to send overdue notices.
16:29 mtompset     some are good to have, like this one, right?
16:29 mtompset     0    1 * * *  $KOHA_CRON_PATH/overdue_notices.pl -t
16:29 mtompset     # OVERDUE NOTICES
16:28 drojf        i just did not know how to do it, cherry pick was the answer
16:28 jcamins      Oh. Excellent. :)
16:28 drojf        it worked with kf's help :)
16:27 drojf        notjing
16:27 jcamins      drojf: okay, so what exactly is the problem?
16:27 jcamins      mtompset: no, they are examples.
16:27 mtompset     the misc/cronjobs/crontab.example --- are all those things necessary?
16:27 drojf        jcamins: i sent a small patch that i would like to enhance at some point. but i also want to keep the state i have now so i can do followups on what i sent in, so i cherrypicked the commit to a new branch
16:26 mtompset     Shoot! I just learned about things missing in the crontab!
16:24 wahanui      "What are you trying to do?"  "What is the goal?" or "What problem are you experiencing?"
16:24 jcamins      First question?
16:24 jcamins      drojf: what are you trying to do?
16:24 mtompset     Shoot... found another bug in the docs.
16:23 kf           :)
16:23 jcamins      (to unstage it)
16:23 jcamins      Followed by git reset
16:23 jcamins      drojf: I do git checkout branch -- file
16:22 drojf        kf++ # that worked
16:20 kf           worked nicely
16:20 kf           I used it once to backport patches from a 3.y to a 3.x
16:19 drojf        aaah that sounds more like it
16:19 kf           drojf: git cherry-pick maybe?
16:18 drojf        or not. better read what it does first :D
16:18 drojf        ah i could just do git merge in this case i guess
16:17 mtompset     oh. :(
16:17 drojf        more magic than switching branches manually and copy stuff at some temp place that is
16:16 drojf        funny question, but can i copy in git from one branch to another with some magick trick?
16:15 mtompset     and for the glory of doing it yourself.
16:15 mtompset     for testing and documenting history. :P
16:15 drojf        and then you wonder what you did all the manual stuff for :D
16:15 mtompset     but that is probably a good idea.
16:14 mtompset     once I do a koha-common install, I'll have a better idea.
16:14 kf           ignore me :)
16:14 kf           hm no, perhaps not
16:14 kf           if you have downloaded and unpacked it, it might be too late?
16:14 kf           is it wise to put the file in there in this case?
16:13 kf           hm
16:13 jcamins      mtompset: what about just one file, that says "if you're using packages, do this, and meet back up at step 30."
16:13 mtompset     INSTALL.ubuntu.manually?
16:12 mtompset     Perhaps INSTALL.ubuntu.via_packages?
16:11 kf           have anice evening
16:11 * eythian    goes home, later all
16:10 mtompset     I'll be trying a koha-common install in the future.
16:10 * paul_p_    hates failing QA on patches...(bug 5409 and bug 8163)
16:10 jcamins      The difference is with the package the upgrade is more-or-less foolproof.
16:09 jcamins      Yes, but you will do the exact same config steps with both.
16:09 mtompset     It does reduce the number of steps.
16:09 jcamins      If you have a reverse proxy, you have to edit the Apache config file no matter what.
16:09 mtompset     Well, there still are config steps.
16:09 jcamins      I don't see how there's any difference between going through all the installation manually and using the packages, except the first way takes a whole bunch of steps and manual work, and the second doesn't.
16:04 eythian      About half of my installations are behind a reverse proxy I think.
16:03 eythian      just tweaking the apache config
16:03 eythian      well, you can always change them after installation
16:03 jcamins      vfernandes: I don't think authority merging works.
16:03 mtompset     the domain name and everything would be the same?
16:03 eythian      you just set it up exactly the way you normally would, perhaps with some internal names, and point the proxy to it
16:03 eythian      very easily
16:03 mtompset     perhaps... except, how would that work behind a reverse proxy?
16:02 eythian      mtompset: it's easier in practice than what you're doing, I expect.
16:01 drojf        bombing with knowledge!
16:01 vfernandes   i'm doing something wrong?
16:01 mtompset     sorry, but Quick start loses me.
16:00 wizzyrea     an ebook drone would be cool too, except for the bombing innocents thing.
16:00 vfernandes   i'm having 1 problem... the system preference dontmerge is set to "Do" but when I change one authority, the data in the records don't change
16:00 wizzyrea     yea pretty much ;)
16:00 drojf        or, well, it's 2012, maybe an ebook drone
16:00 eythian      find open network shares on open wifi networks and uploads stuff to them as it goes past?
15:59 wizzyrea     like the google street view of mobile downloads
15:59 wizzyrea     haha I like that drojf
15:59 eythian      mtompset: see the top of the koha on ubuntu page.
15:59 drojf        digital book mobile? i picture an access point on a radio controlled car and have drive-by downloads
15:59 eythian      yeah
15:59 mtompset     by the way, are those referenced in the wiki somewhere?
15:59 vfernandes   hi guys
15:58 kf           eythian: ah no, that would be mean after all his work :)
15:58 eythian      Yeah :)
15:58 mtompset     you mean the koha-common?
15:57 eythian      jcamins: do you think we should tell mtompset that there are packages that work on Ubuntu too? ;)
15:55 mtompset     FINALLY!
15:55 mtompset     sudo make install
15:44 mtompset     I am so skipping uninstalling and upgrading. :)
15:44 mtompset     53% through the installation document.
15:41 jcamins      Hehe.
15:40 libsysguy    book mobile on SL?
15:40 oleonard     Overdrive sponsors the on-site training in order to encourage libraries to sign up, so it's all profit-driven
15:40 magnuse      hm, you'd think a *digital* bookmobile would look less physical, perhaps? ;-)
15:40 libsysguy    fwiw Anna gets really excited that she can checkout ebooks
15:39 wizzyrea     yep, it's the same as how I feel about the statewide service here
15:39 oleonard     wizzyrea: I hope the "digital bookmobile" helps some patrons, but I have the same mixed feelings about it that I have about ebooks in general
15:39 libsysguy    omg oleonard you drive a Semi!?!?!
15:38 libsysguy    I don't think so
15:38 mtompset     Is oleonard swedish? ;)
15:38 * wizzyrea   was following ACPL
15:38 libsysguy    heh
15:38 oleonard     libsysguy: You'll have to stalk the Athens County Public Libraries to see what wizzyrea is seeing I think
15:38 wahanui      libsysguy is probably Koha's hottest developer or partying with swedes on his deck
15:38 mtompset     libsysguy?
15:38 * libsysguy  goes to stalk oleonard on facebook
15:37 wizzyrea     keke
15:37 oleonard     Facebook, spy satellites, same thing.
15:37 wizzyrea     actually, someone posted it on facebook :P
15:37 mtompset     that's good. :)
15:37 * wizzyrea   flexes
15:37 jcamins      o.O
15:37 oleonard     Hah, yeah. wizzyrea's spy satellites come through again.
15:37 jcamins      mtompset: I just checked, and it uses sources.list.d, provided you don't specify -s
15:37 * wizzyrea   just saw that you have a big truck filled with gadgets in your parking lot
15:36 mtompset     perhaps.
15:36 wizzyrea     :)
15:36 wizzyrea     ME
15:36 oleonard     Oh yeah, who says?
15:36 wizzyrea     oleonard: your library is pretty awesome
15:36 jcamins      The man page mentions sources.list.d, so maybe it does check that?
15:35 mtompset     and if it does, then I probably should add a loop in there for adding the other repos.
15:35 mtompset     well, say they are missing, not barf.
15:34 mtompset     it should barf on things only in the k-c repo.
15:34 mtompset     well, if I try to run my script on 3.8.3
15:34 jcamins      Don't know what to make of that, then.
15:33 jcamins      Hm.
15:33 jcamins      No.
15:33 jcamins      mtompset: I think sources.list.d/* is included by sources.list?
15:33 mtompset     Does that mean it doesn't check sources.list.d files?>
15:33 slef         sources.list.d files are usable as that I think
15:32 jcamins      Easy as pie.
15:32 jcamins      :)
15:32 mtompset     from its default /etc/apt/sources.list.
15:32 mtompset     Sets the sources.list file to a  different  value
15:32 mtompset     --sources-list | -s sources.list
15:31 jcamins      slef: apt-file has an argument for sources.list only.
15:31 eythian      (although probably not in this case, as it's for apt-file)
15:31 eythian      slef: ITYM sources.list.d directories
15:30 slef         jcamins: ITYM sources.list.d files
15:30 jcamins      Just use different sources.list files.
15:30 jcamins      Oh, nice and easy.
15:29 mtompset     Some of my external Wiki links are important.
15:29 jcamins      Hehe. That's the hard part.
15:28 mtompset     Just have to read, and pay attention.
15:28 mtompset     50% through the install instructions... no major glitches.
15:27 mtompset     (at least once)
15:27 mtompset     if you remembered to run apt-file update
15:27 mtompset     AND
15:27 mtompset     The script in its current state detects if apt-file is installed
15:27 mtompset     Yes, but that is external to the script.
15:26 jcamins      Well, apt-file will have to use different databases, I imagine.
15:26 mtompset     I don't see anything in the script which would be OS specific to its running environment.
15:25 jcamins      Oh. Excellent!
15:25 mtompset     "I don't think so" meant I don't think it would be a challenge.
15:25 jcamins      But running under Debian, I want to be alerted about any potential problems with Lucid, or Precise.
15:25 jcamins      Oh, *you* don't need it to.
15:24 mtompset     I think the script is pretty non-OS specific.
15:24 mtompset     I don't think so.
15:24 jcamins      It's also going to have to handle different versions of Ubuntu while running under Debian, which may be a challenge.
15:23 jcamins      :)
15:23 jcamins      I'll wait until you have it working on 3.8.x and master.
15:23 mtompset     I added some extra fixes.
15:23 mtompset     Would you like the newest version?
15:23 jcamins      Which is why at some point he will adapt your script to be part of the release process.
15:23 * jcamins    is a bit paranoid about a lot of things.
15:20 * jcamins    is a bit paranoid about this.
15:20 jcamins      Exactly.
15:20 mtompset     Right. no adding dependencies at the last minute.
15:20 jcamins      No, you can add dependencies, but they have to be added more than a month before the planned release.
15:19 mtompset     when
15:19 mtompset     where you can't add dependencies.
15:19 jcamins      3.6.x has a one-month embargo.
15:19 mtompset     Ah.
15:19 jcamins      mtompset: *now* it does.
15:18 * mtompset   cringes.
15:18 mtompset     But it does exist, if you add the repositories.
15:18 jcamins      The potential problem was the lack of libtemplate-plugin-htmltotext-perl.
15:18 kf           it shoudl be on that bug
15:17 kf           search bugzilla for broken cart email I think
15:17 jcamins      mtompset: that when I embargoed 3.6.7 it hadn't been packaged yet.
15:17 mtompset     Is there a bug report somewhere?
15:17 mtompset     what potential problem with dependencies?
15:16 kf           and we need the same fix for the lists :(
15:16 kf           well, it's still only fixed for the cart
15:16 kf           because then we can update transaltions again without manipulating template files
15:16 * jcamins    looks at kf significantly
15:16 * kf         too
15:16 jcamins      I'd reeeeaaallllyyyyyyyy like to see it in 3.6.8, though.
15:15 jcamins      And not having been tested.
15:15 wahanui      it has been said that documentation is at http://koha-community.org/documentation/
15:15 kf           documentation?
15:15 jcamins      The patch that adds it was rejected for 3.6.7 due to potential problems with dependencies.
15:15 mtompset     I know, but it is for 3.8.3
15:15 jcamins      mtompset: the Template... package isn't required for 3.6.
15:13 wahanui      mailing lists are at http://koha-community.org/support/koha-mailing-lists/
15:13 kf           mailing lists?
15:13 kf           like being a bit worried about display
15:12 kf           not against it at all - only have to be a little careful adding it maybe
15:12 eythian      you can only set the news for 'en', but it doesn't match that to 'en-NZ'
15:12 kf           so that's why I think we  need to do some testng for de-CH :)
15:12 eythian      it is
15:12 kf           I think it's a problem for subdivided languages
15:12 drojf        heh i thought so
15:12 eythian      yeah
15:12 kf           they work for German
15:12 kf           there is a bug for that
15:12 eythian      yep. At least, they did in 3.6.
15:11 drojf        they do?
15:11 eythian      as they only work with en.
15:11 eythian      if I switch to en-NZ things like news stop working
15:11 eythian      it doesn't work all that well
15:11 kf           but it works - so please don't break it :)
15:10 kf           I think it could overall work better
15:10 kf           not sure
15:10 eythian      although, I'd think it would only do that if the template file didn't exist.
15:09 eythian      yeah, that rings a bell actually
15:09 kf           I think one library wanted only maori
15:09 eythian      ah right
15:09 kf           rangi was complaining about it
15:09 kf           yeah, but it will still fall back to it I think
15:08 eythian      can you not untick it?
15:08 jcamins      That's a problem.
15:08 jcamins      You can't deactivate English?
15:08 kf           yeah, but the library can't deactivate english
15:08 eythian      although en-nz should be 2nd not 3rd...
15:07 eythian      e.g. my browser sends: Accept-Language	nl,en-gb;q=0.8,en-nz;q=0.6,en;q=0.4,en-us;q=0.2
15:06 kf           and at the moment you can't deactivate english even if you wanted to
15:06 kf           but people don't know how to change language settings in browsers
15:05 kf           right
15:05 eythian      The browser has a neat thing for this
15:05 eythian      hmm. I think the better solution overall would be to make it easier to change in the browser, but that's outside the scope of Koha.
15:05 kf           the language chooser is really an important element and browser detection not a good way to do it
15:04 kf           we at least want german and english available to everyone everywhere
15:04 kf           and english exchange students
15:04 mtompset     put the german flag multiple times, different tool tips.
15:04 eythian      spose
15:04 kf           eythian: and switzerland has 3 official languages, I think norway has 2
15:04 kf           eythian: public computers
15:04 mtompset     Yes, but that's why you tooltip the codes.
15:04 kf           but for example spanish english and german are spoken in more than one
15:03 eythian      though, people should have their browser set with their preferred languages anyway :)
15:03 kf           mtompset: flags only work if one country = one language
15:03 * mveron     has to head to a shop before it closes...
15:03 eythian      yeah, I'm also confusing plugins with sites
15:03 reiveune     bye
15:03 mveron       ...oh, same answer with other wording from different people...  :-)
15:03 mtompset     I still think Koha should have pretty flags, and then tooltip the codes.
15:03 eythian      that seems weird. Surely if you want to change the language for one thing, you want to change it for everything in the browser?
15:02 mveron       eythian: We are in a coutry with several languages, so we have to hae the possibility to switch independently from the browser's language
15:02 mtompset     Yes, but what if you want to use a language different than your browser?
15:02 eythian      as you were then :)
15:02 eythian      ohh
15:02 kf           eythian: not KOCT - Koha :)
15:02 eythian      hmm, but it's a firefox plugin isn't it?
15:01 kf           mveron: maybe, not sure it's so clever
15:01 mveron       KF: I think it is because I have now both Deutsch installed.
15:01 kf           eythian: we want to switch languages - so you need a language chooser
15:01 eythian      Why does it have a language menu? Shouldn't it pick up the language settings from the browser?
15:00 kf           but de-DE looks a bit ugly :(
15:00 kf           ah good
15:00 mveron       kf: Worked! I have now two "Deutsch" in the language menu, one Deutsch (de-DE) and one  Deutsch (de-CH)
15:00 mtompset     (or at least they will be once I submit my patch to master)
14:59 mtompset     Because the files I am complaining about are ubuntu.{version}.packages
14:59 mtompset     Sorry. The terminology is confusing.
14:59 eythian      I don't know if it's in the packages file or not
14:59 eythian      oh wait, I thought you were talking about the repo
14:58 eythian      maybe that's why it didn't come up
14:58 eythian      ah
14:57 mtompset     It's not required.
14:56 eythian      I didn't see it come up when I checked the deps yesterday
14:56 eythian      Is it required?
14:56 eythian      No
14:56 mtompset     I assume Test::Strict is in there too?
14:53 mtompset     It doesn't quite cut it for 3.8.3
14:53 mtompset     I got the file cleaned up for 3.6.7
14:53 mtompset     That's why I had that little script the other day I was working on.
14:52 eythian      right, that wasn't made with the koha repo in mind last I looked.
14:52 mtompset     install_misc/ubuntu.packages
14:51 eythian      oh wait, what packages file?
14:51 mtompset     like I said... the packages file is missing it.
14:51 eythian      it is
14:51 eythian      squeeze|main|i386: libtemplate-plugin-htmltotext-perl 0.03-1koha1
14:51 mtompset     Okay, then it is NOT in the packages file.
14:50 * kf         votes for klingon
14:50 eythian      mtompset: that is in the repo
14:50 drojf        lol @ gryphnian
14:50 kf           mveron: I am not sure really, I only know that we have to add the code to the database probably - but we can try it out easily, rename the files and try to install - if it shows up ok, all good :)
14:50 mtompset     Template::Plugin::HtmlToText
14:50 mveron       Ok, klingon
14:50 kf           hmmm what about klingon?
14:49 mtompset     Template::Plugin... something...
14:49 mveron       kf: If it would be a total other language, let's say Gryphnian, what would have to be done?
14:49 eythian      mtompset: what are you missing?
14:48 drojf        wat?
14:48 drojf        The option "Apply directly" will directly apply your changes to Koha and should not be used usually.
14:48 mtompset     I thought all the dependencies were supposed to be listed.
14:47 kf           makes sense to me
14:47 mtompset     oh come on! jcamins, the koha repository failed me.
14:47 drojf        kürzel looks better, but i think its more clear that they need the actual code if i name it that way
14:46 drojf        i think i'll go with bibliothekscode
14:46 kf           Bibliothekscode? Bibliothekskürzel?
14:46 kf           ah
14:46 kf           else I would use Bibliothek
14:46 kf           drojf: depends, I normally use the database column names when the document refers to the database
14:45 kf           mveron: and the whole thing is based on some not so easy to understand database tables - so I think we need to teach it with a patch how to do that
14:45 drojf        what is a branchcode in the german translation? Zweig-Code sounds weird
14:45 kf           mveron: yes, but when you install them, the language chooser will have a pull down for german, not a single link like now I think
14:45 mtompset     Can we get pretty flags?
14:45 drojf        there was one thing, wait
14:45 drojf        ok fine
14:44 kf           Offline-Verbuchung
14:44 kf           that's what we call tools like that here
14:44 kf           nope sounds perfect to me
14:44 mveron       kf: We do first the German translation. Then I download the .po files, do a search/replace with tze sz stuff and some terms, then I rename the files to ch-DE and upload them on Pootle
14:44 drojf        i call that thing now "Koha Offline-Verbuchung", nicht verbuchungswerkzeug or something like that, any objections (besides not meeting the koct acronym)?
14:44 mtompset     Actually, the language choosing thing at the bottom is ugly.
14:43 kf           mveron will do de-CH
14:43 drojf        is swiss german done? :)
14:43 drojf        where do we get the dialect translations from?
14:43 kf           mveron: I am not sure how we want to do it - having a pull down for different german dialects will look interesting :)
14:42 mveron       kf: drojf did it!
14:42 kf           mveron: I think we will need a patch to Koha too - so that the language chooser works correctly
14:42 kf           oh and drojf++ :)
14:42 kf           mveron++ :)
14:38 mveron       drojf ++ (for the koct translation)
14:38 * mtompset   is still waiting for the dselect to finish.
14:37 mtompset     and then mass upload when you have time.
14:36 mtompset     No need to go through menus to check it and out.
14:36 mtompset     Oh that's a cool idea!
14:34 drojf        but i did a restart of course, still nothing
14:34 drojf        lol mtompset
14:33 oleonard     mtompset: http://chatzilla.rdmsoft.com/xulrunner/
14:32 mtompset     There goes my chatzilla.
14:32 mtompset     Oops... in my joy, I said "of course restart firefox."
14:31 drojf        hm no, there is just no button
14:27 mtompset     No no... do it the hard way... it's more character building. ;)
14:26 drojf        ah yes that would be easy :)
14:26 eythian      I'd just create a new default profile
14:26 eythian      oh right
14:26 eythian      if so: :set guioptions+=mT
14:25 drojf        no, i made it differently. i think some userfile, because it kept reappearing
14:25 eythian      or are you using pentadactyl?
14:25 eythian      drojf: you can usually re-enable them from the menus
14:24 drojf        hmm cannot test koct because the symbol goes in a toolbar that i have hidden in a way that i do not remember
14:24 mtompset     They expire them every two years. :(
14:24 mtompset     That reminds me... I found my library card from when I was in highschool.
14:23 mtompset     Sounds like a call for a www::mechanized testing for this case. ;)
14:23 drojf        if you set a date for the patron that should take precedence over the general category rule. no idea if that is the case though
14:21 * paul_p_    is not sure too
14:21 wizzyrea     or on the date in their record?
14:21 wizzyrea     do they expire with their category?
14:21 wizzyrea     what happens if a patron's expiry is beyond the hard date in the category?
14:21 eythian      trea: that's what I would expect, but I don't know for sure
14:21 paul_p_      eythian well, not sure which one in fact
14:21 trea         is it a "whichever expires first" kind of situation?
14:20 trea         if you have an imported patron with an dateexpiry value, but the patron category they belonged to has an enrollment period, which is going to take precedence?
14:20 eythian      which myth?
14:20 paul_p_      ;-)
14:20 paul_p_      hey ! eythian ! you break a myth !
14:19 eythian      fact for today: Cleopatra lived closer chronologically to the moon landing than to the building of the pyramids.
14:19 paul_p_      entering "pushing bugs that passed QA" mode...
14:15 wizzyrea     so if you know of some
14:15 wizzyrea     that we can refer people to
14:14 drojf        kf mveron that koct translation is tiny. i made it by accident while looking at the file :D
14:14 wizzyrea     at the very least, we need to find some good basic tutorials on best practice
14:14 mtompset     and then do everything. ;)
14:14 mtompset     sudo su -
14:14 wizzyrea     right, and those are the people who need assistance
14:14 mtompset     and then they teach others bad habits. :)
14:13 eythian      wizzyrea: yeah, but many, many don't
14:13 wizzyrea     ;)
14:13 mtompset     ha ha.
14:13 wizzyrea     sometime after 3.2
14:13 mtompset     When did .27 come out?
14:13 wizzyrea     some people do ok starting in the deep end. :)
14:13 mtompset     3.2.0.27?!
14:12 mtompset     true enough.
14:12 eythian      Usually at the deep end though
14:12 wizzyrea     yesterday's nub is today's expert.
14:12 wizzyrea     yea, but as much as I'd like to say "go learn it and come back, nub" the truth is everyone starts somewhere
14:11 mtompset     you mean vi vs. emacs vs... nano?
14:11 wizzyrea     holy wars*
14:11 wizzyrea     and let's not even get into the editor holy words
14:11 mtompset     Oh the "I can't believe you have a computer to use" type questions.
14:11 wizzyrea     ^^ all questions we get pretty often
14:10 wizzyrea     "what do I use to edit the file?" "how do I save it?" "do I have to do this on the command line?"
14:10 mtompset     Or are we talking setting up something externally?
14:10 mtompset     how is editing a file hard to explain?
14:10 wizzyrea     (I really do, at least once a week)
14:10 * wizzyrea   explains DNS to librarians all the time
14:09 wizzyrea     yes, it certainly is
14:09 eythian      which is really difficult to explain sometimes :)
14:09 mtompset     I was thinking of splitting the Koha_on_Ubuntu page.
14:09 eythian      and how you do things like add DNS entries
14:09 wizzyrea     yep
14:09 eythian      The difficulty is that it starts depending on how their network is set up etc. etc.
14:09 * mtompset   nods
14:08 wizzyrea     when I say "pretty often" i mean, it changes more often than "how do I configure a vhost in apache"
14:08 mtompset     Actually, installation instructions shouldn't change much, but the person needs to have some basics.
14:08 wizzyrea     things like the apache config, and firewall rules
14:07 wizzyrea     it might be less annoying to maintain that (things that don't change often) separately from the documentation that *does* change pretty often.
14:07 wizzyrea     i.e. "need more help with this step? see this link"
14:07 tcohen       wizzyrea: agree!
14:06 wizzyrea     we could have a wiki page of "server set up best practices" and refer to it
14:05 tcohen       (the use case I mean)
14:05 tcohen       maybe its beyond the scope of this docs, thou
14:04 tcohen       and managed to get koha installed in their 2003 dated desktop
14:04 tcohen       popular libraries, that just have a librarian
14:04 tcohen       here in Cordoba we help a lot of small community libraries
14:04 tcohen       but...
14:03 tcohen       eythian, I agree
14:03 eythian      That isn't how the world works, alas.
14:03 eythian      tbh, I kinda wish instructions could be written such that it assumed you had knowledge of how a server worked: I don't think people who don't know that should be setting up servers. It's like driving when you can barely walk.
14:02 * tcohen     thinks the apache stuff is still complicate for the average librarian
14:02 eythian      definitely
14:01 mtompset     firewall settings is surely beyond the scope of instructions for installation.
14:00 eythian      heh
14:00 eythian      yes, that's what I would do.
14:00 drojf        good luck getting my patch to work for you then ;)
14:00 mtompset     Or you get behind a reverse proxy, and set that up right. :)
13:59 eythian      mtompset: it's easier to firewall if you split things up by port.
13:59 tcohen       mtompset: we could encourage users to set ufw properly in Ubuntu
13:59 * mveron     just (experimentally) managed to have a German translation with Swiss Orthography with ss instead of ß (Strasse / Straße)    :-)
13:59 mtompset     Especially in countries that have higher piracy rates. :)
13:58 mtompset     Yes, but if you are a paranoid security freak, you don't want to have many ports open.
13:58 tcohen       it depends on your NameVirtualHost definitions
13:58 mtompset     It looks like a late night, just to make sure this documentation is right.
13:57 tcohen       Name-based virtual hosts handle different ports too
13:57 * mtompset   grumbles about the pain of waiting for the dselect to finish.
13:56 mtompset     That way you only have one port open on your machine. :)
13:55 tcohen       name-based virtualhosts are what most people use
13:55 mtompset     not to mention the OPAC and Intranet stuff point to different dirs.
13:54 mtompset     I was going to say if you are going to use named servers, you want them probably separate.
13:54 eythian      oh, that site used to exist :(
13:54 tcohen       was talking about the default setup
13:54 eythian      ah, good old wrongwindow.com
13:54 mtompset     Ah.
13:54 tcohen       i just wrote in the wrong window
13:53 tcohen       hehe I was discussing with a fellow about that
13:52 eythian      tcohen: I just don't know the context behind what you're saying about apache there
13:52 eythian      no :)
13:52 drojf        heh
13:52 lime         that didn't work :)
13:52 drojf        ?
13:52 lime         /etc/init.d/hugin restart
13:51 tcohen       ?
13:51 eythian      vanished offline
13:51 eythian      dunno
13:51 lime         still sleeping?
13:51 eythian      tcohen: ?
13:51 eythian      lime: huginn appears to be missing.
13:50 tcohen       no guessing
13:50 eythian      yeah, definitely.
13:50 tcohen       apache should be configured to use <VirtualHost *:80/8080>
13:50 lime         @seen jcamins_away
13:50 drojf        the network part is one that i would like to use actually, because i would be way too lazy to do that myself ;)
13:49 eythian      looks perfect really
13:49 eythian      I just hadn't read far enough
13:49 eythian      oh, so it does
13:49 drojf        it does
13:49 eythian      so 192.168.0.1/24 or something wouldn't work?
13:49 eythian      Though, it doesn't look like it handles ranges does it?
13:49 eythian      drojf: In general, we don't change dependencies in a release unless it can't be helped, but otherwise it doesn't matter all that much. Just put it in the appropriate place.
13:46 drojf        eythian: what about using Data::Validate::IP? it sounds like the perfect module for this. would i just say "alright, i use this", are dependencies discussed somewhere first or how does that work?
13:46 * wizzyrea   waves
13:44 drojf        mtompset: http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8492
13:42 mtompset     what patch? where patch?
13:41 eythian      drojf: sure, it's your patch, and doing it just based on apache is a good start.
13:38 drojf        eythian: but that sounds like a good idea. i'll let this open a little, don't know when i have time to implement that. maybe others have more input on it
13:38 * mtompset   smirks, "wb -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPaed8I3V1A -- Welcome Back, Kotter"
13:37 eythian      heh
13:36 drojf        yes, i did that with "use ip address" too because i was afraid of paul_p_ coming after me for too many sysprefs ;)
13:36 eythian      though, I'd probably merge 1 and 2.
13:35 eythian      drojf: well, I'm more just chucking out ideas.
13:35 drojf        eythian: do i understand that correctly that you are suggesting to have 1) the option to use x-forward-for 2) the option to specify what you expect to be remote_addr (your proxy) and x-forward-for (user's ip) when using x-forward-for?
13:33 paul_p_      well, it's paul_p_ for now ;-)
13:33 kf           wb paul_p
13:33 drojf        kf: mveron: i have not looked at it yet
13:32 mtompset     Sorry, I only speak English. I dabble in Filipino.
13:32 * mtompset   laughs.
13:31 drojf        mtompset: i thought you work for SIL, don't you people speak all languages? :P
13:31 mveron       look
13:31 mveron       I will have a lok at it this evening
13:31 mtompset     I don't speak or write German. So, I don't know.
13:31 mveron       hi kf :-)
13:30 kf           is someone translating the KOCT plugin into German?
13:29 mveron       hi drojf
13:29 drojf        hi mveron
13:28 mtompset     Well, that's true. I encountered a typo in my doing it: apt-get instead of apt-key.
13:27 eythian      Or that they'll do it correctly.
13:27 eythian      That doesn't mean people will however
13:27 eythian      Indeed you are.
13:26 mtompset     yes, but when you don't know what you are doing, you are supposed to follow the instructions.
13:26 eythian      mtompset: have you met people?
13:25 mveron       Hi #koha
13:25 mtompset     but not following the instructions?!
13:25 mtompset     typos, I get.
13:24 eythian      Keeping that in will at least provide a safety net in case they mess up somewhere.
13:24 eythian      no, you're assuming everyone will follow instructions 100%, which they won't.
13:23 mtompset     I was tempted to cut out the koha_perl_deps.pl step, because logically if you have the repo, then you should get everything.
13:22 tcohen       I added the repo so it pulls some .deb's that are there
13:20 mtompset     well, I know the adding a repo worked. I saw it pull from the debian.k-c. org repo.
13:18 mtompset     And the corruption begins...
13:16 mtompset     Similarly for 10.04.
13:16 mtompset     The problems you encounter in 12.04 are likely to be similar regardless of Koha version.
13:15 mtompset     I have thought of 3.6 on 10.04 and 3.6 on 12.04 and 3.8 on 10.04 and 3.8 on 12.04, but that's FOUR documents.
13:14 tcohen       or have been
13:14 tcohen       i'm just pointing out where my efforts are directed
13:14 tcohen       I'm not talking about something specific
13:13 tcohen       yes, I know
13:13 mtompset     When I say document, I mean INSTALL.ubuntu.12.04 (my attachment on your bug)
13:13 mtompset     When I say wiki, I mean http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
13:12 tcohen       When I first rewrote the wiki,  I wanted to write something average users could copy and paste in their terminal
13:12 mtompset     Yes, but if you want to easily check for missing libraries, apt-file is useful.
13:11 eythian      mtompset: only developers really use apt-file
13:11 tcohen       because the instructions  where very confusing
13:11 tcohen       and my main goal was that the preferred - default install
13:10 tcohen       i mean, not a single file for all versions
13:09 tcohen       i must say that I thought of having a version of these files in the 3.6.x tree and this one in master/3.8.x
13:09 mtompset     What I'd like to do to it next is restructure it so that the wiki and it line up more.
13:08 tcohen       mtompset, I like the changes you've made
13:08 mtompset     my fault, of course. :(
13:08 mtompset     Anyways, I'm on step 1.5.2 -- DOH! found some typos.
13:07 tcohen       https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptitude/+bug/831768
13:05 mtompset     Seems kind of dumb to me.
13:05 eythian      yeah
13:05 mtompset     apt-file, on the other hand, needs to be installed.
13:04 mtompset     sounds like someone needs a apt-get update. ;)
13:04 eythian      I have multiarch with aptitude
13:04 tcohen       maybe its been patched
13:04 eythian      I don't think it does any more
13:04 tcohen       as it breaks multiarch
13:03 tcohen       that's weird
13:03 mtompset     It does.
13:03 tcohen       out-of-the-box?
13:03 mtompset     It does.
13:03 * tcohen     thinks aptitude does not ship anymore with Ubuntu
13:02 * mtompset   goes, "Whew! I did"
13:02 * mtompset   wonders if he posted the tee version.
13:01 mtompset     I still have some tweaks.
13:01 mtompset     Don't worry, there weren't any glaring English problems.
13:01 mtompset     I reformatted, changed a few things.
13:00 tcohen       my english is not the best
13:00 mtompset     It's 5K longer than yours. :)
13:00 tcohen       did you rewrite them?
13:00 tcohen       i ddidn't ahve the time to read it yet
13:00 mtompset     I'm in the midst of testing the instructions.
13:00 mtompset     I've attached my latest version to the bug report.
12:59 mtompset     Greetings, tcohen.
12:59 tcohen       hi mtompset
12:59 mtompset     The directory name says 3.8.3 ... waiting for extraction...
12:52 mtompset     okay, I'll just wait for the download first.
12:52 kf           kohaversion.pl should tell you
12:48 eythian      try it and find out?
12:48 mtompset     Okay... dumb question...  is koha-latest.tar.gz correct?
12:47 mtompset     I was working on Documentation all day. Avoided email.
12:47 mtompset     I just read it.
12:41 jcamins      ... speaking of mailing lists.
12:36 jcamins      I just sent an e-mail to it about how ugly that query was.
12:35 mtompset     why?
12:35 mtompset     I have decided to ignore a lot of it. :)
12:35 mtompset     I did.
12:35 jcamins      You really should.
12:35 jcamins      mtompset: you still haven't subscribed to the Koha mailing list, have you?
12:34 jcamins      mtompset: that was my point.
12:34 mtompset     that's an ugly way to have something more like: create index on branch+acquisition date tag BLAH; set order to BLAH; seek "branch201206"
12:34 oleonard     Hi all
12:33 jcamins      Left-anchored, regular expression, and equals.
12:32 mtompset     Then what are the 1, 102, and 3 parts?
12:31 jcamins      That's an index I invented which consists of branch|acquisition-date
12:31 jcamins      It does not relate to the database at all.
12:31 mtompset     But what is index 9952? How does this relate to some table in some database?
12:30 jcamins      mtompset: my point was, it's very unpleasant to try to come up with queries like that.
12:28 magnuse      eythian: ;-)
12:27 eythian      magnuse: it's just how we speak
12:27 jcamins      mtompset: it's quite straightforward, really. "Find records with index 9952 matching the left-anchored regular expression 'branch|20120[67]'"
12:26 mtompset     BTW, could you decode your PQF query for us? pqf=@attr 3=1 @attr 5=102 @attr 2=3 @attr 1=9952 "branch|20120[67]"
12:26 kf           magnuse: *sigh*
12:25 mtompset     Ah.
12:24 magnuse      mtompset: those of us who were lucky enough to go on the road trip in nz in 2010 were taught to shout it at the top of our voices at all times ;-)
12:23 magnuse      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_ora
12:23 mtompset     well, Paris time that is.
12:22 mtompset     He was here around 8ish before.
12:22 magnuse      mtompset: a maori greeting ;-)
12:22 * magnuse    scoffs
12:22 mtompset     what's kia ora? I suppose ora means hour.
12:22 magnuse      is this a good time to show up for work, eh? ;-)
12:21 paul_p       hello magnuse
12:21 magnuse      kia ora paul_p
12:20 mtompset     nah, zebra is sick and phat. ;)
12:19 drojf        and zebra is ill too
12:19 magnuse      w00t
12:19 wahanui      it has been said that ill is Inter-Library Loan
12:19 magnuse      ill?
12:19 mtompset     ILL is Inter-Library Loan.
12:19 jcamins      ILL is Inter-Library Loan
12:19 wahanui      mtompset: i don't know
12:19 mtompset     wahanui doesn't know that?
12:19 jcamins      Yup.
12:18 mtompset     ILL?
12:18 * kf         waves
12:18 kf           yes :)
12:18 mtompset     inter-library loan?
12:17 jcamins      mtompset: well, thanks to Z39.50 being entrenched for ILL, yeah, we do need both.
12:16 * mtompset   grins.
12:16 * mtompset   goes, "AAAAAAWWWWWWW! Can't we get both?"
12:16 jcamins      (where equivalent = something that can do as much, not something that is as horrifying)
12:15 drojf        and i don't want to sit next to our patrons and do all their searches
12:14 jcamins      magnuse: yeah, but we have to support an equivalent.
12:14 drojf        :D
12:14 * drojf      just wanted to say something
12:14 jcamins      :P
12:14 jcamins      Other than drojf.
12:14 drojf        i do
12:13 jcamins      davidnind: right, that's my point. No one wants to use PQF.
12:13 mtompset     We are... solr is newer. :)
12:13 davidnind    Am now wiser, but don't think it is something mere mortals like me would use
12:12 mtompset     http://www.indexdata.com/yaz/doc/tools.html#PQF
12:12 * magnuse    thinks it's time we threw old "library tech" on the dung heap of history and adopted tech solutions that are used by others too
12:12 jcamins      It's used by Zebra.
12:12 jcamins      It's a query syntax. Nothing to do with Perl.
12:11 mtompset     http://www.indexdata.com/zebra/doc/querymodel.html#querymodel-query-languages-pqf
12:11 davidnind    Or something in the perl code
12:11 jcamins      It's a particular query syntax.
12:11 davidnind    Is that like boolean seaching, only worse?
12:10 * magnuse    agrees
12:10 * jcamins    thinks that's pretty horrifying to behold.
12:10 jcamins      davidnind: pqf=@attr 3=1 @attr 5=102 @attr 2=3 @attr 1=9952 "branch|20120[67]"
12:09 davidnind    Still not any wiser
12:09 jcamins      mtompset: The queries are horrifying to behold?
12:08 wahanui      i guess PQF is Prefix Query Format
12:08 magnuse      PQF?
12:08 magnuse      PQF is Prefix Query Format
12:07 davidnind    PQF?
12:07 mtompset     Why does that kind of searching scare people?
12:06 * jcamins    scares everyone away with PQF.
12:05 mtompset     I should probably add the external repo evilness into the wiki version.
12:04 davidnind    Will look at both and provide some feedback
12:01 mtompset     Feel free to also give feedback on http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
12:00 mtompset     I'm hoping to obsolete tcohen's other attachment too, but it is getting late in the day.
11:59 mtompset     http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8478
11:55 davidnind    What jcamins said
11:54 mtompset     true...
11:53 jcamins      mtompset: best to attach it to a bug, so that people other than davidnind can test it if they so choose.
11:53 mtompset     I also tried to keep lines to 65 characters wide, except for command-lines and sample outputs.
11:53 mtompset     It's about 5K more than the old version. :)
11:52 mtompset     email or DCC SEND?
11:51 mtompset     just a second...
11:50 davidnind    Will test for you if you like, probably over the next day or so though
11:47 mtompset     Had to add that purist comment in there. :)
11:47 mtompset     if Zebra indexing (see step 5.2) is done via cron jobs.
11:47 mtompset     NOTE: This is not required for koha 3.6.7 under Ubuntu 12.04
11:47 mtompset     1.2 Add koha repository to your apt sources
11:45 davidnind    Writing clearer step by step install instructions is also encouraged mtompset++
11:45 mtompset     I'm trying to update the INSTALL.ubuntu for 12.04 and make sure there are enough details that someone not quite familiar with linux should be able to follow it.
11:44 drojf1       hi #koha
11:43 davidnind    Depending on who your audience is for the instructions, encouraging good practice would be recommended, especially for people new to Linux and/or Koha :)
11:42 wahanui      the instructions are coming right now to the wiki near you
11:42 mtompset     The instructions.
11:42 mtompset     I'm working on INSTALL.ubuntu.12.04, jcamins.
11:40 mtompset     Well, there we go... cleaner instructions!
11:39 eythian      it will, that's what I use for that sort of thing
11:39 mtompset     tee... that may do it.
11:39 rangi        and now im going to sleep
11:38 mtompset     And yes, davidnind, you are right. But I don't want to write ugly, complex instructions.
11:38 rangi        mtompset: tee not cat
11:37 mtompset     because sudo sh -e is ugly.
11:35 jcamins      No, you're still using the shell to write the file.
11:35 eythian      no
11:35 mtompset     Can cat work that way?
11:35 mtompset     echo "deb http://debian.koha-community.org/koha squeeze main" | sudo cat - > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/koha-community.list
11:34 jcamins      I think probably sudo sh -e 'echo ...'
11:34 jcamins      I'm not sure, actually.
11:34 mtompset     How would you do that with a sudo?
11:33 mtompset     echo "deb http://debian.koha-community.org/koha squeeze main" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/koha-community.list
11:33 davidnind    Good practice for linux server administration is to use sudo with a designated user account, rather than root (so I have been told)
11:29 mtompset     I typed apt-get instead of apt-key.
11:28 mtompset     I was running as root, so no need for sudo.
11:26 eythian      yep :)
11:26 jcamins      *yes
11:26 jcamins      eythian: I guess that'd be a yess. :)
11:26 mtompset     Oops... typo. Good thing the instructions are right.
11:26 eythian      jcamins: that's why there's a 3.8.3.1 package out
11:26 jcamins      eythian: did someone tell you that the 3.8.3 package had 3.8.2 in it?
11:26 jcamins      | sudo apt-key add -
11:25 mtompset     wget -O- http://debian.koha-community.org/koha/gpg.asc | apt-key add -
11:25 mtompset     Hmm... this next command didn't wiork.
11:25 mtompset     I'm doing this for testing purposes.
11:24 jcamins      Good idea.
11:23 mtompset     echo "deb http://debian.koha-community.org/koha squeeze main" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/koha-community.list
11:22 mtompset     I'm about to issue commands I don't like. :P
11:22 mtompset     Greetings, jcamins.
11:19 eythian      They take a very long time as it requires a table copy. My theory is that if they were done in one statement, it would only have one copy, not several
11:19 jcamins      Yeah, I noticed how painful it was.
11:18 eythian      kf_lunch: it does 4 or so ALTER TABLE operations on old_issues when you go 3.6->3.8
10:58 mtompset     I think some update tables as part of an upgrade process.
10:40 kf_lunch     what are you looking at?
10:40 * eythian    goes to lunch while that runs
10:40 eythian      that _really_ should have been made one statement
10:39 eythian      oh wow, a 4th alter table :/
10:39 kf_lunch     biblibre++ for fixing bugs .)
10:38 mtompset     Greetings, #koha. Test is a success. YAY! Now if only this install would finish. :)
10:37 * mtompset   is off to test his auto-join command.
10:26 eythian      yeah, dependencies change over time
10:26 eythian      oh no, then it does the same thing again for another column.
10:25 mtompset     Though, I did note it wasn't necessary for 3.6.7 ;)
10:25 mtompset     instructions, even.
10:25 mtompset     And it is part of the isntructions.
10:25 mtompset     since I will be installing 3.8.3, it will likely be necessary.
10:24 eythian      yeah, it has the extra modules in it
10:23 mtompset     Then I'll be doing something that will make jcamins very happy, I'll be using debian.k-c.org's repos.
10:22 mtompset     I've almost finished an Ubuntu 12.04 server install with NO selections.
10:19 mtompset     I'm doing a test run of my improvements to INSTALL.ubuntu for precise.
10:17 mtompset     I'm sticking to things I can do right now, like documentation.
10:17 mtompset     Hey, I wouldn't go that far. :P
10:17 eythian      Sounds like you're volunteering to ajaxify the upgrade process :)
10:17 mtompset     pain to implement well, but nice.
10:17 mtompset     Progress bars are nice things.
10:16 mtompset     There would be no gateway timeout, if there was STDOUT dumped back to the browser.
10:16 rangi        probably, would only have to create the temporary table once
10:14 eythian      I wonder if it'd be faster if they were one statement
10:14 eythian      oh no, then it does: ALTER TABLE old_issues CHANGE returndate returndate datetime
10:11 eythian      to the point of "gateway timeout"
10:11 rangi        yup
10:11 eythian      this takes a very long time to run on a 3.6->3.8 upgrade
10:10 eythian      > ALTER TABLE old_issues CHANGE date_due date_due datetime
09:54 jenkins_koha nengard: Bug 8453: Add spaces to inventory options
09:54 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #102: SUCCESS in 1 hr 4 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/102/
09:31 mtompset     Greetings, #koha.
09:15 magnuse      eythian++
09:09 kf           yay :)
08:59 * eythian    publishes the correct version of 3.8.3 packages...
08:51 rangi        cya dcook
08:51 * dcook      calls it a night as well
08:51 jenkins_koha Starting build #102 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
08:41 kf           morning eythian :)
08:39 dcook        'night
08:39 * mtompset   waves.
08:39 * mtompset   decides to go to shut down.
08:39 mtompset     Low memory... Netbook grunting badly.
08:39 * mtompset   grins.
08:38 dcook        I'm hoping to download his Koha knowledge
08:38 dcook        USB?
08:38 mtompset     finger, meat thermometer, or trident? ;)
08:37 dcook        How else will I know? :p
08:37 rangi        heh
08:37 eythian      to see if he's done?
08:36 * dcook      pokes rangi
08:26 eythian      hello kf
08:24 kf           :)
08:24 magnuse      guten tag kf
08:23 mtompset     Greetings, kf.
08:23 dcook        hi kf
08:23 kf           hi #koha
08:23 mtompset     Hopefully, the test will be done in 2 hours.
08:20 * mtompset   switches off thinking and turns on "follow the words on the page only".
08:20 dcook        Let's hope so :)
08:19 mtompset     At least it should go well enough, if I've written the instructions well enough.
08:19 dcook        and congrats, mtompset. Sorry that there's the testing now :p
08:18 dcook        Bon matin, paul_p
08:13 mtompset     Good day to you as well, paul_p. :)
08:12 paul_p       good morning #koha
08:11 mtompset     AT LAST! DONE! -- Bad news... I have to test it.
08:03 eythian      g'day
08:03 wahanui      somebody said eythian was in NZ. ;) or a good influence
08:03 rangi        heya eythian
07:47 mtompset     There should be some sort of comment explaining what <prefix> is.
07:46 mtompset     $ zebraidx -c <prefix>/etc/zebradb/zebra-biblios.cfg -g iso2709 -d biblios init
07:46 * rangi      finished what is hopefully the last one i ever have to do today
07:46 mtompset     Good thing I'm running through this. There are sections that say things without explaining them.
07:45 rangi        try editing statutory declarations
07:44 mtompset     Editing is such a pain!
07:44 mtompset     Almost through the INSTALL.ubuntu file.
07:44 dcook        Hey mtompset. Having a rough time of it?
07:36 mtompset     Greetings, dcook
07:34 dcook_away   morning/evening everyone
07:33 magnuse      morning #koha
07:22 mtompset     Evening, rangi
07:21 rangi        evening
07:17 mtompset     Well, I hope you all have productive days. I'm not sure how productive my writing documentation is.
07:16 mtompset     Greetings, asaurat. Greetings, julian_m.
07:16 julian_m     yes mtompset :)
07:16 wahanui      privet, julian_m
07:16 julian_m     hello
07:16 mtompset     Ah, it must be morning in France. :)
07:11 mtompset     Salut? (is that valid French?)
07:11 * mtompset   grins.
07:11 laurence     hello mtompset
07:01 mtompset     I'm working on documentation. What fun are you having today? :)
07:00 mtompset     Greetings, laurence
07:00 matts        hi !
07:00 mtompset     Greetings, matts
07:00 mtompset     Greetings, francharb
07:00 francharb    hello
06:44 mtompset     Greetings, reiveune.
06:41 reiveune     re
06:38 reiveune     hello
06:20 * mtompset   is surprised how much more enjoyable documentation writing is becoming.
06:19 mtompset     items is library-speak for books.
06:19 mtompset     http://manual.koha-community.org/3.6/en/cataloging.html
06:19 mtompset     Sneha, please... go read the documentation. I think you will discover that what you are trying to do is more complex that we can describe on the channel here.
06:17 Sneha        ??
06:14 Sneha        can i send u file format ?
06:14 wahanui      irc logs are http://irc.koha-community.org/irclog/koha/
06:14 mtompset     irc logs?
06:14 Sneha        can in send u file format ?
06:13 cait         yes, xml is a format, but it depends how your data is structured within the xml
06:12 Sneha        Only .XML
06:12 Sneha        Onlt .XML
06:11 wahanui      well, marc21 is at http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/ecbdlist.html , http://www.loc.gov/marc/authority/ecadlist.html
06:11 mtompset     marc21?
06:11 cait         http://loc.gov/marc
06:11 cait         the spec is here
06:11 cait         you want MARC21
06:11 wahanui      marcxml is a representation of the usmarc in xml
06:11 mtompset     marcxml?
06:11 cait         what kind of xml?
06:11 Sneha        file format
06:11 cait         is your file marcxml?
06:11 Sneha        i need just format
06:11 Sneha        then i do import
06:11 cait         I really think documentation is the best place to start here
06:10 Sneha        i have xml file
06:10 wahanui      mtompset: I forgot there
06:10 mtompset     wahanui, forget there
06:10 Sneha        yes
06:10 wahanui      there is no spoon. or something like the second with holes like the first... or a patch from jared soemwhere removing some of the nozebra code or confusion, cait, for non-library types. What's a bibliographic record vs. an item record vs. an authorities...
06:10 mtompset     there?
06:10 mtompset     think?
06:10 wahanui      okay, mtompset.
06:10 mtompset     I think there is also confusion, cait, for non-library types. What's a bibliographic record vs. an item record vs. an authorities...
06:09 mtompset     http://manual.koha-community.org/3.6/en/cataloging.html
06:09 mtompset     As per cait's suggestion. Read the cataloging chapter.
06:08 cait         http://manual.koha-community.org/3.8/en/cataloging.html#catbibs
06:08 Sneha        yes
06:08 mtompset     Let me guess, Sneha... you have 3.06.05 of Koha, right?
06:07 mtompset     Probably not.
06:07 cait         I would recommend reading the cataloguing chapter
06:07 cait         maybe z39.50 import?
06:07 cait         it depends on how you are doing it
06:07 mtompset     cait, I'm not familiar with how to enter an item in Koha. Where's the docs for that?
06:06 Sneha        so i got confused
06:06 Sneha        i have no format of this
06:06 Sneha        no i useing import the book but not
06:05 Sneha        yes
06:05 mtompset     I mean catalogueing?
06:05 mtompset     Are you just trying to do data entry, Sneha?
06:05 * mtompset   thinks Sneha may work with two people he interacted with over the weekend. *sigh*
06:03 mtompset     which part don't you understand?
06:03 Sneha        but not understand
06:03 Sneha        i have this
06:02 wahanui      documentation is at http://koha-community.org/documentation/
06:02 cait         documentation?
06:02 cait         but mailing you details apart from that is asking a bit too much
06:02 cait         or youcan ask your quesitons on the mailing list
06:02 alex_a       bonjour \o
06:02 cait         we cantry helping you here
06:02 cait         sorry Sneha
05:59 Sneha        hdohare@yahoo.co.in
05:59 Sneha        can u send me details with my mail id ?
05:59 Sneha        i have import the book but not working properly
05:57 * mtompset   goes back to working on documentation for Ubuntu installs.
05:56 cait         there is a patch to allow "crosswalking" formats for z39.50 - but sadly it's stuck at the moment
05:56 cait         mtompset: yes, you will have to import in the format koha is set up in
05:56 mtompset     That is the best I can help, sorry.
05:56 wahanui      unimarc is http://www.ifla.org/en/publications/unimarc-formats-and-related-documentation
05:56 mtompset     unimarc?
05:55 wahanui      hmmm... marc21 is at http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/ecbdlist.html , http://www.loc.gov/marc/authority/ecadlist.html
05:55 mtompset     marc21?
05:55 mtompset     I have no such files that I am allowed to share.
05:55 mtompset     I believe the Koha Import format depends on what you set your Koha up as, right cait? MARC21 or UNIMARC.
05:54 Sneha        no body are there?
05:54 Sneha        ??
05:53 mtompset     I know CPAN is not recommended. :)
05:52 Sneha        please
05:52 Sneha        any body send me Koha import file format?
05:52 Sneha        hi every one
05:49 cait         using CPAN is not recommended
05:49 cait         so I guess not
05:49 cait         hm I think the packages have all perl dependencies
05:47 mtompset     If a user who is setting up Koha has the debian.k-c.org squeeze packages, would there be any reason for them to use CPAN?
05:40 dcook_away   Now that I look at the name of the permission, I guess so, lol
05:40 cait         hm that makes sense too i guess
05:39 dcook_away   It looks like the only thing it does is allow the user to change their library in the intranet...
05:32 dcook_away   I think that's the "Set Koha system parameters" permission
05:32 cait         I think administration area - but I am not sure right now
05:32 cait         hm
05:31 dcook_away   Or to which lib management parameters the permission refers?
05:30 dcook_away   Does anyone know if the "Set library management parameters" permission actually do anything?
04:44 muzu         ok
04:43 rangi        it may not fix this checkin checkout problem, but not running it will create all sorts of other ones
04:43 muzu         may i know what is the exact command to execute that script.
04:43 muzu         ok
04:43 rangi        right, after you have done the web installer, you need to run that script
04:43 rangi        misc/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra.pl -b -r
04:42 rangi        misc/maintenance/remove_items_from_biblioitems.pl --run
04:42 muzu         i have taken the back up of 3.2 . i have newly istalled 3.6 and restored 3.2 db
04:42 rangi
04:42 rangi        complete for large databases
04:42 rangi        following two steps, they can take a long time (several hours) to
04:42 rangi        If you are upgrading from an older version ou will need to do the
04:42 rangi        oha 3.4.x or later  no longer stores items in biblio records.
04:42 rangi        from the INSTALL file
04:42 rangi        and do a full zebra reindex
04:42 rangi        you definitely want to run that script
04:41 rangi        you just loaded in a 3.2 db into a 3.6.7 install?
04:41 rangi        how did you upgrade?
04:40 muzu         i havent execute any script.
04:38 rangi        that one?
04:38 rangi        misc/maintenance/remove_items_from_biblioitems.pl --run
04:38 rangi        when you upgraded you ran the upgrade script eh?
04:37 muzu         Use of uninitialized value $biblioitem_subfield in string at /home/koha/kohaclone/C4/Biblio.pm line 3216. Tag "" is not a valid tag. at /home/koha/kohaclone/C4/Biblio.pm line 3216"
04:35 rangi        whats the error at checkin and checkout muzu ?
04:35 dcook_away   rangi: interestingly enough, this is the third time in four days that people have commented to me about PHP's structure
04:35 muzu         even i have ignored,but gives error while checkin and checkout.
04:33 rangi        ahh you can safely ignore that, it should continue on and do the rest
04:32 muzu         [Thu Dec 15 13:59:43 2011] updatedatabase.pl: DBD::mysql::db do failed: Duplicate column name 'privacy' at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/installer/data/mysql/updatedatabase.pl line 3997.
04:31 rangi        muzu: what is the error?
04:24 rangi        definitely for the same reason, you dont want X and gdm etc all running
04:24 mtompset     But you would agree that the server version is preferred over the desktop version, rangi?
04:23 mtompset     Roughly 300MB used with myql and apache.
04:23 rangi        dcook_away: http://blog.r-wos.org/2012/php-explained
04:22 mtompset     Actually, that is probably right.
04:22 muzu         I am getting error while restoring db of 3.2 in 3.6
04:22 rangi        i think it runs in around 64MB a thread
04:22 rangi        yeah thats about 4 threads with php
04:22 mtompset     We've bumped up to 1GB total.
04:22 muzu         hi mtompset
04:22 mtompset     free.
04:22 * rangi      exaggerates for effect
04:21 mtompset     204MB.
04:21 rangi        specially if you are mtompset and have 24meg of ram :-)
04:21 rangi        drastically reducing how many concurrent threads you can have
04:21 rangi        the problem here is, now your apache threads start up with php
04:21 mtompset     I suspect it isn't a matter of fan or not, but a matter of not installing what you don't need.
04:20 rangi        not at all :) but thats not why its a problem for this
04:20 dcook_away   Not a fan of php, rangi? :P
04:20 rangi        but it has the downside of now you have php
04:20 rangi        well it is easy
04:20 rangi        not really no
04:19 mtompset     Next question. I know that LAMP includes PHP, which is not required for Koha, but would that not be the easiest option to suggest when installing Ubuntu?
04:19 cait         hi mtompset
04:18 mtompset     Greetings, muzu.
04:18 mtompset     Greetings, cait
03:53 mtompset     Thanks for the input. I'll be looking at http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8478 and helping tcohen clean up documentation for Ubuntu, and getting master patched with what I did for 3.6.7
03:53 wahanui      bonjour, muzu
03:53 muzu         hi
03:52 * mtompset   nods.
03:49 rangi        and unless someone setps up to maintain oldoldstable, you should try to be at least on oldstable
03:48 rangi        yep
03:47 mtompset     However, in terms of a repository, (apt-get stuff), only old stable, current stable, and master exist.
03:46 rangi        yep
03:46 mtompset     The tar.gz's stay around forever. A git downlaod is available as well.
03:45 mtompset     Thanks for clarifying.
03:45 mtompset     I was mixing terms.
03:45 rangi        i thought you meant the package repository
03:45 rangi        yeah that stays around for ever
03:45 rangi        oh the git repository?
03:43 mtompset     Ah, okay. So, basically, a git install is really only available for old stable, current stable, and master?
03:42 rangi        nope
03:42 mtompset     does the 3.6.x repository stay around somewhere?
03:41 rangi        yep
03:40 mtompset     So, when 3.10 comes out... oldstable = 3.8.x, and debian-codename = current stable = 3.10, debian-codename-dev = master (= 3.11)?
03:38 rangi        oldstable
03:38 mtompset     which one is 3.6.x?
03:38 rangi        squeeze-dev is master
03:38 rangi        so 3.8.x
03:38 rangi        squeeze is current stable
03:38 mtompset     also, what is the most current repository for debian.koha-community.org? Is it squeeze?
03:37 * mtompset   nods.
03:35 rangi        probably best to make one for localhost explicitly assuming that people who want to run the db on another server know enough to figure that out themselves
03:35 mtompset     Okay, seeing as I'm looking at the Ubuntu Instructions to make sure they are up to date.
03:34 rangi        doesnt really matter for the instructions
03:32 mtompset     (never = since I first saw it up until now)
03:32 mtompset     Should it have been?
03:31 mtompset     But the @'%' was never suggested on http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
03:30 rangi        but once that is in, it will work with precise again
03:29 rangi        hmm no hmm needs signoff
03:29 rangi        its passed QA
03:29 rangi        http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8162
03:29 rangi        yep
03:29 rangi        the packages worked fine up until precise
03:28 mtompset     Yes, the whole 'user'@'%' mess?
03:28 rangi        mysql in precise is a bit mental
03:28 rangi        there's one patch that needs to be pushed, and then yes
03:28 mtompset     yes.
03:28 rangi        (they aren't in debian proper)
03:27 rangi        from debian.koha-community.org you mean?
03:27 mtompset     (from Debian)
03:27 mtompset     Under Ubuntu, do we want to recommend using the koha-common packages?
03:27 mtompset     I have a question and perhaps you can give feedback, rangi.
03:26 rangi        hi mtompset
03:26 mtompset     Greetings, #koha.
02:54 jenkins_koha mtompset: Bug 8458 - $stemmed_operand in C4::Search _build_stemmed_operand is not initialized. Added =q{} to initialize it to the empty string at declaration time.
02:54 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #101: SUCCESS in 1 hr 3 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/101/
01:51 jenkins_koha Starting build #101 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)