Time  Nick         Message
01:51 jenkins_koha Starting build #101 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
02:54 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #101: SUCCESS in 1 hr 3 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/101/
02:54 jenkins_koha mtompset: Bug 8458 - $stemmed_operand in C4::Search _build_stemmed_operand is not initialized. Added =q{} to initialize it to the empty string at declaration time.
03:26 mtompset     Greetings, #koha.
03:26 rangi        hi mtompset
03:27 mtompset     I have a question and perhaps you can give feedback, rangi.
03:27 mtompset     Under Ubuntu, do we want to recommend using the koha-common packages?
03:27 mtompset     (from Debian)
03:27 rangi        from debian.koha-community.org you mean?
03:28 rangi        (they aren't in debian proper)
03:28 mtompset     yes.
03:28 rangi        there's one patch that needs to be pushed, and then yes
03:28 rangi        mysql in precise is a bit mental
03:28 mtompset     Yes, the whole 'user'@'%' mess?
03:29 rangi        the packages worked fine up until precise
03:29 rangi        yep
03:29 rangi        http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8162
03:29 rangi        its passed QA
03:29 rangi        hmm no hmm needs signoff
03:30 rangi        but once that is in, it will work with precise again
03:31 mtompset     But the @'%' was never suggested on http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
03:32 mtompset     Should it have been?
03:32 mtompset     (never = since I first saw it up until now)
03:34 rangi        doesnt really matter for the instructions
03:35 mtompset     Okay, seeing as I'm looking at the Ubuntu Instructions to make sure they are up to date.
03:35 rangi        probably best to make one for localhost explicitly assuming that people who want to run the db on another server know enough to figure that out themselves
03:37 * mtompset   nods.
03:38 mtompset     also, what is the most current repository for debian.koha-community.org? Is it squeeze?
03:38 rangi        squeeze is current stable
03:38 rangi        so 3.8.x
03:38 rangi        squeeze-dev is master
03:38 mtompset     which one is 3.6.x?
03:38 rangi        oldstable
03:40 mtompset     So, when 3.10 comes out... oldstable = 3.8.x, and debian-codename = current stable = 3.10, debian-codename-dev = master (= 3.11)?
03:41 rangi        yep
03:42 mtompset     does the 3.6.x repository stay around somewhere?
03:42 rangi        nope
03:43 mtompset     Ah, okay. So, basically, a git install is really only available for old stable, current stable, and master?
03:45 rangi        oh the git repository?
03:45 rangi        yeah that stays around for ever
03:45 rangi        i thought you meant the package repository
03:45 mtompset     I was mixing terms.
03:45 mtompset     Thanks for clarifying.
03:46 mtompset     The tar.gz's stay around forever. A git downlaod is available as well.
03:46 rangi        yep
03:47 mtompset     However, in terms of a repository, (apt-get stuff), only old stable, current stable, and master exist.
03:48 rangi        yep
03:49 rangi        and unless someone setps up to maintain oldoldstable, you should try to be at least on oldstable
03:52 * mtompset   nods.
03:53 muzu         hi
03:53 wahanui      bonjour, muzu
03:53 mtompset     Thanks for the input. I'll be looking at http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8478 and helping tcohen clean up documentation for Ubuntu, and getting master patched with what I did for 3.6.7
04:18 mtompset     Greetings, cait
04:18 mtompset     Greetings, muzu.
04:19 cait         hi mtompset
04:19 mtompset     Next question. I know that LAMP includes PHP, which is not required for Koha, but would that not be the easiest option to suggest when installing Ubuntu?
04:20 rangi        not really no
04:20 rangi        well it is easy
04:20 rangi        but it has the downside of now you have php
04:20 dcook_away   Not a fan of php, rangi? :P
04:20 rangi        not at all :) but thats not why its a problem for this
04:21 mtompset     I suspect it isn't a matter of fan or not, but a matter of not installing what you don't need.
04:21 rangi        the problem here is, now your apache threads start up with php
04:21 rangi        drastically reducing how many concurrent threads you can have
04:21 rangi        specially if you are mtompset and have 24meg of ram :-)
04:21 mtompset     204MB.
04:22 * rangi      exaggerates for effect
04:22 mtompset     free.
04:22 muzu         hi mtompset
04:22 mtompset     We've bumped up to 1GB total.
04:22 rangi        yeah thats about 4 threads with php
04:22 rangi        i think it runs in around 64MB a thread
04:22 muzu         I am getting error while restoring db of 3.2 in 3.6
04:22 mtompset     Actually, that is probably right.
04:23 rangi        dcook_away: http://blog.r-wos.org/2012/php-explained
04:23 mtompset     Roughly 300MB used with myql and apache.
04:24 mtompset     But you would agree that the server version is preferred over the desktop version, rangi?
04:24 rangi        definitely for the same reason, you dont want X and gdm etc all running
04:31 rangi        muzu: what is the error?
04:32 muzu         [Thu Dec 15 13:59:43 2011] updatedatabase.pl: DBD::mysql::db do failed: Duplicate column name 'privacy' at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/installer/data/mysql/updatedatabase.pl line 3997.
04:33 rangi        ahh you can safely ignore that, it should continue on and do the rest
04:35 muzu         even i have ignored,but gives error while checkin and checkout.
04:35 dcook_away   rangi: interestingly enough, this is the third time in four days that people have commented to me about PHP's structure
04:35 rangi        whats the error at checkin and checkout muzu ?
04:37 muzu         Use of uninitialized value $biblioitem_subfield in string at /home/koha/kohaclone/C4/Biblio.pm line 3216. Tag "" is not a valid tag. at /home/koha/kohaclone/C4/Biblio.pm line 3216"
04:38 rangi        when you upgraded you ran the upgrade script eh?
04:38 rangi        misc/maintenance/remove_items_from_biblioitems.pl --run
04:38 rangi        that one?
04:40 muzu         i havent execute any script.
04:41 rangi        how did you upgrade?
04:41 rangi        you just loaded in a 3.2 db into a 3.6.7 install?
04:42 rangi        you definitely want to run that script
04:42 rangi        and do a full zebra reindex
04:42 rangi        from the INSTALL file
04:42 rangi        oha 3.4.x or later  no longer stores items in biblio records.
04:42 rangi        If you are upgrading from an older version ou will need to do the
04:42 rangi        following two steps, they can take a long time (several hours) to
04:42 rangi        complete for large databases
04:42 rangi
04:42 muzu         i have taken the back up of 3.2 . i have newly istalled 3.6 and restored 3.2 db
04:42 rangi        misc/maintenance/remove_items_from_biblioitems.pl --run
04:43 rangi        misc/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra.pl -b -r
04:43 rangi        right, after you have done the web installer, you need to run that script
04:43 muzu         ok
04:43 muzu         may i know what is the exact command to execute that script.
04:43 rangi        it may not fix this checkin checkout problem, but not running it will create all sorts of other ones
04:44 muzu         ok
05:30 dcook_away   Does anyone know if the "Set library management parameters" permission actually do anything?
05:31 dcook_away   Or to which lib management parameters the permission refers?
05:32 cait         hm
05:32 cait         I think administration area - but I am not sure right now
05:32 dcook_away   I think that's the "Set Koha system parameters" permission
05:39 dcook_away   It looks like the only thing it does is allow the user to change their library in the intranet...
05:40 cait         hm that makes sense too i guess
05:40 dcook_away   Now that I look at the name of the permission, I guess so, lol
05:47 mtompset     If a user who is setting up Koha has the debian.k-c.org squeeze packages, would there be any reason for them to use CPAN?
05:49 cait         hm I think the packages have all perl dependencies
05:49 cait         so I guess not
05:49 cait         using CPAN is not recommended
05:52 Sneha        hi every one
05:52 Sneha        any body send me Koha import file format?
05:52 Sneha        please
05:53 mtompset     I know CPAN is not recommended. :)
05:54 Sneha        ??
05:54 Sneha        no body are there?
05:55 mtompset     I believe the Koha Import format depends on what you set your Koha up as, right cait? MARC21 or UNIMARC.
05:55 mtompset     I have no such files that I am allowed to share.
05:55 mtompset     marc21?
05:55 wahanui      hmmm... marc21 is at http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/ecbdlist.html , http://www.loc.gov/marc/authority/ecadlist.html
05:56 mtompset     unimarc?
05:56 wahanui      unimarc is http://www.ifla.org/en/publications/unimarc-formats-and-related-documentation
05:56 mtompset     That is the best I can help, sorry.
05:56 cait         mtompset: yes, you will have to import in the format koha is set up in
05:56 cait         there is a patch to allow "crosswalking" formats for z39.50 - but sadly it's stuck at the moment
05:57 * mtompset   goes back to working on documentation for Ubuntu installs.
05:59 Sneha        i have import the book but not working properly
05:59 Sneha        can u send me details with my mail id ?
05:59 Sneha        hdohare@yahoo.co.in
06:02 cait         sorry Sneha
06:02 cait         we cantry helping you here
06:02 alex_a       bonjour \o
06:02 cait         or youcan ask your quesitons on the mailing list
06:02 cait         but mailing you details apart from that is asking a bit too much
06:02 cait         documentation?
06:02 wahanui      documentation is at http://koha-community.org/documentation/
06:03 Sneha        i have this
06:03 Sneha        but not understand
06:03 mtompset     which part don't you understand?
06:05 * mtompset   thinks Sneha may work with two people he interacted with over the weekend. *sigh*
06:05 mtompset     Are you just trying to do data entry, Sneha?
06:05 mtompset     I mean catalogueing?
06:05 Sneha        yes
06:06 Sneha        no i useing import the book but not
06:06 Sneha        i have no format of this
06:06 Sneha        so i got confused
06:07 mtompset     cait, I'm not familiar with how to enter an item in Koha. Where's the docs for that?
06:07 cait         it depends on how you are doing it
06:07 cait         maybe z39.50 import?
06:07 cait         I would recommend reading the cataloguing chapter
06:07 mtompset     Probably not.
06:08 mtompset     Let me guess, Sneha... you have 3.06.05 of Koha, right?
06:08 Sneha        yes
06:08 cait         http://manual.koha-community.org/3.8/en/cataloging.html#catbibs
06:09 mtompset     As per cait's suggestion. Read the cataloging chapter.
06:09 mtompset     http://manual.koha-community.org/3.6/en/cataloging.html
06:10 mtompset     I think there is also confusion, cait, for non-library types. What's a bibliographic record vs. an item record vs. an authorities...
06:10 wahanui      okay, mtompset.
06:10 mtompset     think?
06:10 mtompset     there?
06:10 wahanui      there is no spoon. or something like the second with holes like the first... or a patch from jared soemwhere removing some of the nozebra code or confusion, cait, for non-library types. What's a bibliographic record vs. an item record vs. an authorities...
06:10 Sneha        yes
06:10 mtompset     wahanui, forget there
06:10 wahanui      mtompset: I forgot there
06:10 Sneha        i have xml file
06:11 cait         I really think documentation is the best place to start here
06:11 Sneha        then i do import
06:11 Sneha        i need just format
06:11 cait         is your file marcxml?
06:11 Sneha        file format
06:11 cait         what kind of xml?
06:11 mtompset     marcxml?
06:11 wahanui      marcxml is a representation of the usmarc in xml
06:11 cait         you want MARC21
06:11 cait         the spec is here
06:11 cait         http://loc.gov/marc
06:11 mtompset     marc21?
06:11 wahanui      well, marc21 is at http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/ecbdlist.html , http://www.loc.gov/marc/authority/ecadlist.html
06:12 Sneha        Onlt .XML
06:12 Sneha        Only .XML
06:13 cait         yes, xml is a format, but it depends how your data is structured within the xml
06:14 Sneha        can in send u file format ?
06:14 mtompset     irc logs?
06:14 wahanui      irc logs are http://irc.koha-community.org/irclog/koha/
06:14 Sneha        can i send u file format ?
06:17 Sneha        ??
06:19 mtompset     Sneha, please... go read the documentation. I think you will discover that what you are trying to do is more complex that we can describe on the channel here.
06:19 mtompset     http://manual.koha-community.org/3.6/en/cataloging.html
06:19 mtompset     items is library-speak for books.
06:20 * mtompset   is surprised how much more enjoyable documentation writing is becoming.
06:38 reiveune     hello
06:41 reiveune     re
06:44 mtompset     Greetings, reiveune.
07:00 francharb    hello
07:00 mtompset     Greetings, francharb
07:00 mtompset     Greetings, matts
07:00 matts        hi !
07:00 mtompset     Greetings, laurence
07:01 mtompset     I'm working on documentation. What fun are you having today? :)
07:11 laurence     hello mtompset
07:11 * mtompset   grins.
07:11 mtompset     Salut? (is that valid French?)
07:16 mtompset     Ah, it must be morning in France. :)
07:16 julian_m     hello
07:16 wahanui      privet, julian_m
07:16 julian_m     yes mtompset :)
07:16 mtompset     Greetings, asaurat. Greetings, julian_m.
07:17 mtompset     Well, I hope you all have productive days. I'm not sure how productive my writing documentation is.
07:21 rangi        evening
07:22 mtompset     Evening, rangi
07:33 magnuse      morning #koha
07:34 dcook_away   morning/evening everyone
07:36 mtompset     Greetings, dcook
07:44 dcook        Hey mtompset. Having a rough time of it?
07:44 mtompset     Almost through the INSTALL.ubuntu file.
07:44 mtompset     Editing is such a pain!
07:45 rangi        try editing statutory declarations
07:46 mtompset     Good thing I'm running through this. There are sections that say things without explaining them.
07:46 * rangi      finished what is hopefully the last one i ever have to do today
07:46 mtompset     $ zebraidx -c <prefix>/etc/zebradb/zebra-biblios.cfg -g iso2709 -d biblios init
07:47 mtompset     There should be some sort of comment explaining what <prefix> is.
08:03 rangi        heya eythian
08:03 wahanui      somebody said eythian was in NZ. ;) or a good influence
08:03 eythian      g'day
08:11 mtompset     AT LAST! DONE! -- Bad news... I have to test it.
08:12 paul_p       good morning #koha
08:13 mtompset     Good day to you as well, paul_p. :)
08:18 dcook        Bon matin, paul_p
08:19 dcook        and congrats, mtompset. Sorry that there's the testing now :p
08:19 mtompset     At least it should go well enough, if I've written the instructions well enough.
08:20 dcook        Let's hope so :)
08:20 * mtompset   switches off thinking and turns on "follow the words on the page only".
08:23 mtompset     Hopefully, the test will be done in 2 hours.
08:23 kf           hi #koha
08:23 dcook        hi kf
08:23 mtompset     Greetings, kf.
08:24 magnuse      guten tag kf
08:24 kf           :)
08:26 eythian      hello kf
08:36 * dcook      pokes rangi
08:37 eythian      to see if he's done?
08:37 rangi        heh
08:37 dcook        How else will I know? :p
08:38 mtompset     finger, meat thermometer, or trident? ;)
08:38 dcook        USB?
08:38 dcook        I'm hoping to download his Koha knowledge
08:39 * mtompset   grins.
08:39 mtompset     Low memory... Netbook grunting badly.
08:39 * mtompset   decides to go to shut down.
08:39 * mtompset   waves.
08:39 dcook        'night
08:41 kf           morning eythian :)
08:51 jenkins_koha Starting build #102 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
08:51 * dcook      calls it a night as well
08:51 rangi        cya dcook
08:59 * eythian    publishes the correct version of 3.8.3 packages...
09:09 kf           yay :)
09:15 magnuse      eythian++
09:31 mtompset     Greetings, #koha.
09:54 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #102: SUCCESS in 1 hr 4 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/102/
09:54 jenkins_koha nengard: Bug 8453: Add spaces to inventory options
10:10 eythian      > ALTER TABLE old_issues CHANGE date_due date_due datetime
10:11 eythian      this takes a very long time to run on a 3.6->3.8 upgrade
10:11 rangi        yup
10:11 eythian      to the point of "gateway timeout"
10:14 eythian      oh no, then it does: ALTER TABLE old_issues CHANGE returndate returndate datetime
10:14 eythian      I wonder if it'd be faster if they were one statement
10:16 rangi        probably, would only have to create the temporary table once
10:16 mtompset     There would be no gateway timeout, if there was STDOUT dumped back to the browser.
10:17 mtompset     Progress bars are nice things.
10:17 mtompset     pain to implement well, but nice.
10:17 eythian      Sounds like you're volunteering to ajaxify the upgrade process :)
10:17 mtompset     Hey, I wouldn't go that far. :P
10:17 mtompset     I'm sticking to things I can do right now, like documentation.
10:19 mtompset     I'm doing a test run of my improvements to INSTALL.ubuntu for precise.
10:22 mtompset     I've almost finished an Ubuntu 12.04 server install with NO selections.
10:23 mtompset     Then I'll be doing something that will make jcamins very happy, I'll be using debian.k-c.org's repos.
10:24 eythian      yeah, it has the extra modules in it
10:25 mtompset     since I will be installing 3.8.3, it will likely be necessary.
10:25 mtompset     And it is part of the isntructions.
10:25 mtompset     instructions, even.
10:25 mtompset     Though, I did note it wasn't necessary for 3.6.7 ;)
10:26 eythian      oh no, then it does the same thing again for another column.
10:26 eythian      yeah, dependencies change over time
10:37 * mtompset   is off to test his auto-join command.
10:38 mtompset     Greetings, #koha. Test is a success. YAY! Now if only this install would finish. :)
10:39 kf_lunch     biblibre++ for fixing bugs .)
10:39 eythian      oh wow, a 4th alter table :/
10:40 eythian      that _really_ should have been made one statement
10:40 * eythian    goes to lunch while that runs
10:40 kf_lunch     what are you looking at?
10:58 mtompset     I think some update tables as part of an upgrade process.
11:18 eythian      kf_lunch: it does 4 or so ALTER TABLE operations on old_issues when you go 3.6->3.8
11:19 jcamins      Yeah, I noticed how painful it was.
11:19 eythian      They take a very long time as it requires a table copy. My theory is that if they were done in one statement, it would only have one copy, not several
11:22 mtompset     Greetings, jcamins.
11:22 mtompset     I'm about to issue commands I don't like. :P
11:23 mtompset     echo "deb http://debian.koha-community.org/koha squeeze main" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/koha-community.list
11:24 jcamins      Good idea.
11:25 mtompset     I'm doing this for testing purposes.
11:25 mtompset     Hmm... this next command didn't wiork.
11:25 mtompset     wget -O- http://debian.koha-community.org/koha/gpg.asc | apt-key add -
11:26 jcamins      | sudo apt-key add -
11:26 jcamins      eythian: did someone tell you that the 3.8.3 package had 3.8.2 in it?
11:26 eythian      jcamins: that's why there's a 3.8.3.1 package out
11:26 mtompset     Oops... typo. Good thing the instructions are right.
11:26 jcamins      eythian: I guess that'd be a yess. :)
11:26 jcamins      *yes
11:26 eythian      yep :)
11:28 mtompset     I was running as root, so no need for sudo.
11:29 mtompset     I typed apt-get instead of apt-key.
11:33 davidnind    Good practice for linux server administration is to use sudo with a designated user account, rather than root (so I have been told)
11:33 mtompset     echo "deb http://debian.koha-community.org/koha squeeze main" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/koha-community.list
11:34 mtompset     How would you do that with a sudo?
11:34 jcamins      I'm not sure, actually.
11:34 jcamins      I think probably sudo sh -e 'echo ...'
11:35 mtompset     echo "deb http://debian.koha-community.org/koha squeeze main" | sudo cat - > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/koha-community.list
11:35 mtompset     Can cat work that way?
11:35 eythian      no
11:35 jcamins      No, you're still using the shell to write the file.
11:37 mtompset     because sudo sh -e is ugly.
11:38 rangi        mtompset: tee not cat
11:38 mtompset     And yes, davidnind, you are right. But I don't want to write ugly, complex instructions.
11:39 rangi        and now im going to sleep
11:39 mtompset     tee... that may do it.
11:39 eythian      it will, that's what I use for that sort of thing
11:40 mtompset     Well, there we go... cleaner instructions!
11:42 mtompset     I'm working on INSTALL.ubuntu.12.04, jcamins.
11:42 mtompset     The instructions.
11:42 wahanui      the instructions are coming right now to the wiki near you
11:43 davidnind    Depending on who your audience is for the instructions, encouraging good practice would be recommended, especially for people new to Linux and/or Koha :)
11:44 drojf1       hi #koha
11:45 mtompset     I'm trying to update the INSTALL.ubuntu for 12.04 and make sure there are enough details that someone not quite familiar with linux should be able to follow it.
11:45 davidnind    Writing clearer step by step install instructions is also encouraged mtompset++
11:47 mtompset     1.2 Add koha repository to your apt sources
11:47 mtompset     NOTE: This is not required for koha 3.6.7 under Ubuntu 12.04
11:47 mtompset     if Zebra indexing (see step 5.2) is done via cron jobs.
11:47 mtompset     Had to add that purist comment in there. :)
11:50 davidnind    Will test for you if you like, probably over the next day or so though
11:51 mtompset     just a second...
11:52 mtompset     email or DCC SEND?
11:53 mtompset     It's about 5K more than the old version. :)
11:53 mtompset     I also tried to keep lines to 65 characters wide, except for command-lines and sample outputs.
11:53 jcamins      mtompset: best to attach it to a bug, so that people other than davidnind can test it if they so choose.
11:54 mtompset     true...
11:55 davidnind    What jcamins said
11:59 mtompset     http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8478
12:00 mtompset     I'm hoping to obsolete tcohen's other attachment too, but it is getting late in the day.
12:01 mtompset     Feel free to also give feedback on http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
12:04 davidnind    Will look at both and provide some feedback
12:05 mtompset     I should probably add the external repo evilness into the wiki version.
12:06 * jcamins    scares everyone away with PQF.
12:07 mtompset     Why does that kind of searching scare people?
12:07 davidnind    PQF?
12:08 magnuse      PQF is Prefix Query Format
12:08 magnuse      PQF?
12:08 wahanui      i guess PQF is Prefix Query Format
12:09 jcamins      mtompset: The queries are horrifying to behold?
12:09 davidnind    Still not any wiser
12:10 jcamins      davidnind: pqf=@attr 3=1 @attr 5=102 @attr 2=3 @attr 1=9952 "branch|20120[67]"
12:10 * jcamins    thinks that's pretty horrifying to behold.
12:10 * magnuse    agrees
12:11 davidnind    Is that like boolean seaching, only worse?
12:11 jcamins      It's a particular query syntax.
12:11 davidnind    Or something in the perl code
12:11 mtompset     http://www.indexdata.com/zebra/doc/querymodel.html#querymodel-query-languages-pqf
12:12 jcamins      It's a query syntax. Nothing to do with Perl.
12:12 jcamins      It's used by Zebra.
12:12 * magnuse    thinks it's time we threw old "library tech" on the dung heap of history and adopted tech solutions that are used by others too
12:12 mtompset     http://www.indexdata.com/yaz/doc/tools.html#PQF
12:13 davidnind    Am now wiser, but don't think it is something mere mortals like me would use
12:13 mtompset     We are... solr is newer. :)
12:13 jcamins      davidnind: right, that's my point. No one wants to use PQF.
12:14 drojf        i do
12:14 jcamins      Other than drojf.
12:14 jcamins      :P
12:14 * drojf      just wanted to say something
12:14 drojf        :D
12:14 jcamins      magnuse: yeah, but we have to support an equivalent.
12:15 drojf        and i don't want to sit next to our patrons and do all their searches
12:16 jcamins      (where equivalent = something that can do as much, not something that is as horrifying)
12:16 * mtompset   goes, "AAAAAAWWWWWWW! Can't we get both?"
12:16 * mtompset   grins.
12:17 jcamins      mtompset: well, thanks to Z39.50 being entrenched for ILL, yeah, we do need both.
12:18 mtompset     inter-library loan?
12:18 kf           yes :)
12:18 * kf         waves
12:18 mtompset     ILL?
12:19 jcamins      Yup.
12:19 mtompset     wahanui doesn't know that?
12:19 wahanui      mtompset: i don't know
12:19 jcamins      ILL is Inter-Library Loan
12:19 mtompset     ILL is Inter-Library Loan.
12:19 magnuse      ill?
12:19 wahanui      it has been said that ill is Inter-Library Loan
12:19 magnuse      w00t
12:19 drojf        and zebra is ill too
12:20 mtompset     nah, zebra is sick and phat. ;)
12:21 magnuse      kia ora paul_p
12:21 paul_p       hello magnuse
12:22 magnuse      is this a good time to show up for work, eh? ;-)
12:22 mtompset     what's kia ora? I suppose ora means hour.
12:22 * magnuse    scoffs
12:22 magnuse      mtompset: a maori greeting ;-)
12:22 mtompset     He was here around 8ish before.
12:23 mtompset     well, Paris time that is.
12:23 magnuse      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_ora
12:24 magnuse      mtompset: those of us who were lucky enough to go on the road trip in nz in 2010 were taught to shout it at the top of our voices at all times ;-)
12:25 mtompset     Ah.
12:26 kf           magnuse: *sigh*
12:26 mtompset     BTW, could you decode your PQF query for us? pqf=@attr 3=1 @attr 5=102 @attr 2=3 @attr 1=9952 "branch|20120[67]"
12:27 jcamins      mtompset: it's quite straightforward, really. "Find records with index 9952 matching the left-anchored regular expression 'branch|20120[67]'"
12:27 eythian      magnuse: it's just how we speak
12:28 magnuse      eythian: ;-)
12:30 jcamins      mtompset: my point was, it's very unpleasant to try to come up with queries like that.
12:31 mtompset     But what is index 9952? How does this relate to some table in some database?
12:31 jcamins      It does not relate to the database at all.
12:31 jcamins      That's an index I invented which consists of branch|acquisition-date
12:32 mtompset     Then what are the 1, 102, and 3 parts?
12:33 jcamins      Left-anchored, regular expression, and equals.
12:34 oleonard     Hi all
12:34 mtompset     that's an ugly way to have something more like: create index on branch+acquisition date tag BLAH; set order to BLAH; seek "branch201206"
12:34 jcamins      mtompset: that was my point.
12:35 jcamins      mtompset: you still haven't subscribed to the Koha mailing list, have you?
12:35 jcamins      You really should.
12:35 mtompset     I did.
12:35 mtompset     I have decided to ignore a lot of it. :)
12:35 mtompset     why?
12:36 jcamins      I just sent an e-mail to it about how ugly that query was.
12:41 jcamins      ... speaking of mailing lists.
12:47 mtompset     I just read it.
12:47 mtompset     I was working on Documentation all day. Avoided email.
12:48 mtompset     Okay... dumb question...  is koha-latest.tar.gz correct?
12:48 eythian      try it and find out?
12:52 kf           kohaversion.pl should tell you
12:52 mtompset     okay, I'll just wait for the download first.
12:59 mtompset     The directory name says 3.8.3 ... waiting for extraction...
12:59 tcohen       hi mtompset
12:59 mtompset     Greetings, tcohen.
13:00 mtompset     I've attached my latest version to the bug report.
13:00 mtompset     I'm in the midst of testing the instructions.
13:00 tcohen       i ddidn't ahve the time to read it yet
13:00 tcohen       did you rewrite them?
13:00 mtompset     It's 5K longer than yours. :)
13:00 tcohen       my english is not the best
13:01 mtompset     I reformatted, changed a few things.
13:01 mtompset     Don't worry, there weren't any glaring English problems.
13:01 mtompset     I still have some tweaks.
13:02 * mtompset   wonders if he posted the tee version.
13:02 * mtompset   goes, "Whew! I did"
13:03 * tcohen     thinks aptitude does not ship anymore with Ubuntu
13:03 mtompset     It does.
13:03 tcohen       out-of-the-box?
13:03 mtompset     It does.
13:03 tcohen       that's weird
13:04 tcohen       as it breaks multiarch
13:04 eythian      I don't think it does any more
13:04 tcohen       maybe its been patched
13:04 eythian      I have multiarch with aptitude
13:04 mtompset     sounds like someone needs a apt-get update. ;)
13:05 mtompset     apt-file, on the other hand, needs to be installed.
13:05 eythian      yeah
13:05 mtompset     Seems kind of dumb to me.
13:07 tcohen       https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptitude/+bug/831768
13:08 mtompset     Anyways, I'm on step 1.5.2 -- DOH! found some typos.
13:08 mtompset     my fault, of course. :(
13:08 tcohen       mtompset, I like the changes you've made
13:09 mtompset     What I'd like to do to it next is restructure it so that the wiki and it line up more.
13:09 tcohen       i must say that I thought of having a version of these files in the 3.6.x tree and this one in master/3.8.x
13:10 tcohen       i mean, not a single file for all versions
13:11 tcohen       and my main goal was that the preferred - default install
13:11 tcohen       because the instructions  where very confusing
13:11 eythian      mtompset: only developers really use apt-file
13:12 mtompset     Yes, but if you want to easily check for missing libraries, apt-file is useful.
13:12 tcohen       When I first rewrote the wiki,  I wanted to write something average users could copy and paste in their terminal
13:13 mtompset     When I say wiki, I mean http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
13:13 mtompset     When I say document, I mean INSTALL.ubuntu.12.04 (my attachment on your bug)
13:13 tcohen       yes, I know
13:14 tcohen       I'm not talking about something specific
13:14 tcohen       i'm just pointing out where my efforts are directed
13:14 tcohen       or have been
13:15 mtompset     I have thought of 3.6 on 10.04 and 3.6 on 12.04 and 3.8 on 10.04 and 3.8 on 12.04, but that's FOUR documents.
13:16 mtompset     The problems you encounter in 12.04 are likely to be similar regardless of Koha version.
13:16 mtompset     Similarly for 10.04.
13:18 mtompset     And the corruption begins...
13:20 mtompset     well, I know the adding a repo worked. I saw it pull from the debian.k-c. org repo.
13:22 tcohen       I added the repo so it pulls some .deb's that are there
13:23 mtompset     I was tempted to cut out the koha_perl_deps.pl step, because logically if you have the repo, then you should get everything.
13:24 eythian      no, you're assuming everyone will follow instructions 100%, which they won't.
13:24 eythian      Keeping that in will at least provide a safety net in case they mess up somewhere.
13:25 mtompset     typos, I get.
13:25 mtompset     but not following the instructions?!
13:25 mveron       Hi #koha
13:26 eythian      mtompset: have you met people?
13:26 mtompset     yes, but when you don't know what you are doing, you are supposed to follow the instructions.
13:27 eythian      Indeed you are.
13:27 eythian      That doesn't mean people will however
13:27 eythian      Or that they'll do it correctly.
13:28 mtompset     Well, that's true. I encountered a typo in my doing it: apt-get instead of apt-key.
13:29 drojf        hi mveron
13:29 mveron       hi drojf
13:30 kf           is someone translating the KOCT plugin into German?
13:31 mveron       hi kf :-)
13:31 mtompset     I don't speak or write German. So, I don't know.
13:31 mveron       I will have a lok at it this evening
13:31 mveron       look
13:31 drojf        mtompset: i thought you work for SIL, don't you people speak all languages? :P
13:32 * mtompset   laughs.
13:32 mtompset     Sorry, I only speak English. I dabble in Filipino.
13:33 drojf        kf: mveron: i have not looked at it yet
13:33 kf           wb paul_p
13:33 paul_p_      well, it's paul_p_ for now ;-)
13:35 drojf        eythian: do i understand that correctly that you are suggesting to have 1) the option to use x-forward-for 2) the option to specify what you expect to be remote_addr (your proxy) and x-forward-for (user's ip) when using x-forward-for?
13:35 eythian      drojf: well, I'm more just chucking out ideas.
13:36 eythian      though, I'd probably merge 1 and 2.
13:36 drojf        yes, i did that with "use ip address" too because i was afraid of paul_p_ coming after me for too many sysprefs ;)
13:37 eythian      heh
13:38 * mtompset   smirks, "wb -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPaed8I3V1A -- Welcome Back, Kotter"
13:38 drojf        eythian: but that sounds like a good idea. i'll let this open a little, don't know when i have time to implement that. maybe others have more input on it
13:41 eythian      drojf: sure, it's your patch, and doing it just based on apache is a good start.
13:42 mtompset     what patch? where patch?
13:44 drojf        mtompset: http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8492
13:46 * wizzyrea   waves
13:46 drojf        eythian: what about using Data::Validate::IP? it sounds like the perfect module for this. would i just say "alright, i use this", are dependencies discussed somewhere first or how does that work?
13:49 eythian      drojf: In general, we don't change dependencies in a release unless it can't be helped, but otherwise it doesn't matter all that much. Just put it in the appropriate place.
13:49 eythian      Though, it doesn't look like it handles ranges does it?
13:49 eythian      so 192.168.0.1/24 or something wouldn't work?
13:49 drojf        it does
13:49 eythian      oh, so it does
13:49 eythian      I just hadn't read far enough
13:49 eythian      looks perfect really
13:50 drojf        the network part is one that i would like to use actually, because i would be way too lazy to do that myself ;)
13:50 lime         @seen jcamins_away
13:50 tcohen       apache should be configured to use <VirtualHost *:80/8080>
13:50 eythian      yeah, definitely.
13:50 tcohen       no guessing
13:51 eythian      lime: huginn appears to be missing.
13:51 eythian      tcohen: ?
13:51 lime         still sleeping?
13:51 eythian      dunno
13:51 eythian      vanished offline
13:51 tcohen       ?
13:52 lime         /etc/init.d/hugin restart
13:52 drojf        ?
13:52 lime         that didn't work :)
13:52 drojf        heh
13:52 eythian      no :)
13:52 eythian      tcohen: I just don't know the context behind what you're saying about apache there
13:53 tcohen       hehe I was discussing with a fellow about that
13:54 tcohen       i just wrote in the wrong window
13:54 mtompset     Ah.
13:54 eythian      ah, good old wrongwindow.com
13:54 tcohen       was talking about the default setup
13:54 eythian      oh, that site used to exist :(
13:54 mtompset     I was going to say if you are going to use named servers, you want them probably separate.
13:55 mtompset     not to mention the OPAC and Intranet stuff point to different dirs.
13:55 tcohen       name-based virtualhosts are what most people use
13:56 mtompset     That way you only have one port open on your machine. :)
13:57 * mtompset   grumbles about the pain of waiting for the dselect to finish.
13:57 tcohen       Name-based virtual hosts handle different ports too
13:58 mtompset     It looks like a late night, just to make sure this documentation is right.
13:58 tcohen       it depends on your NameVirtualHost definitions
13:58 mtompset     Yes, but if you are a paranoid security freak, you don't want to have many ports open.
13:59 mtompset     Especially in countries that have higher piracy rates. :)
13:59 * mveron     just (experimentally) managed to have a German translation with Swiss Orthography with ss instead of ß (Strasse / Straße)    :-)
13:59 tcohen       mtompset: we could encourage users to set ufw properly in Ubuntu
13:59 eythian      mtompset: it's easier to firewall if you split things up by port.
14:00 mtompset     Or you get behind a reverse proxy, and set that up right. :)
14:00 drojf        good luck getting my patch to work for you then ;)
14:00 eythian      yes, that's what I would do.
14:00 eythian      heh
14:01 mtompset     firewall settings is surely beyond the scope of instructions for installation.
14:02 eythian      definitely
14:02 * tcohen     thinks the apache stuff is still complicate for the average librarian
14:03 eythian      tbh, I kinda wish instructions could be written such that it assumed you had knowledge of how a server worked: I don't think people who don't know that should be setting up servers. It's like driving when you can barely walk.
14:03 eythian      That isn't how the world works, alas.
14:03 tcohen       eythian, I agree
14:04 tcohen       but...
14:04 tcohen       here in Cordoba we help a lot of small community libraries
14:04 tcohen       popular libraries, that just have a librarian
14:04 tcohen       and managed to get koha installed in their 2003 dated desktop
14:05 tcohen       maybe its beyond the scope of this docs, thou
14:05 tcohen       (the use case I mean)
14:06 wizzyrea     we could have a wiki page of "server set up best practices" and refer to it
14:07 tcohen       wizzyrea: agree!
14:07 wizzyrea     i.e. "need more help with this step? see this link"
14:07 wizzyrea     it might be less annoying to maintain that (things that don't change often) separately from the documentation that *does* change pretty often.
14:08 wizzyrea     things like the apache config, and firewall rules
14:08 mtompset     Actually, installation instructions shouldn't change much, but the person needs to have some basics.
14:08 wizzyrea     when I say "pretty often" i mean, it changes more often than "how do I configure a vhost in apache"
14:09 * mtompset   nods
14:09 eythian      The difficulty is that it starts depending on how their network is set up etc. etc.
14:09 wizzyrea     yep
14:09 eythian      and how you do things like add DNS entries
14:09 mtompset     I was thinking of splitting the Koha_on_Ubuntu page.
14:09 eythian      which is really difficult to explain sometimes :)
14:09 wizzyrea     yes, it certainly is
14:10 * wizzyrea   explains DNS to librarians all the time
14:10 wizzyrea     (I really do, at least once a week)
14:10 mtompset     how is editing a file hard to explain?
14:10 mtompset     Or are we talking setting up something externally?
14:10 wizzyrea     "what do I use to edit the file?" "how do I save it?" "do I have to do this on the command line?"
14:11 wizzyrea     ^^ all questions we get pretty often
14:11 mtompset     Oh the "I can't believe you have a computer to use" type questions.
14:11 wizzyrea     and let's not even get into the editor holy words
14:11 wizzyrea     holy wars*
14:11 mtompset     you mean vi vs. emacs vs... nano?
14:12 wizzyrea     yea, but as much as I'd like to say "go learn it and come back, nub" the truth is everyone starts somewhere
14:12 wizzyrea     yesterday's nub is today's expert.
14:12 eythian      Usually at the deep end though
14:12 mtompset     true enough.
14:13 mtompset     3.2.0.27?!
14:13 wizzyrea     some people do ok starting in the deep end. :)
14:13 mtompset     When did .27 come out?
14:13 wizzyrea     sometime after 3.2
14:13 mtompset     ha ha.
14:13 wizzyrea     ;)
14:13 eythian      wizzyrea: yeah, but many, many don't
14:14 mtompset     and then they teach others bad habits. :)
14:14 wizzyrea     right, and those are the people who need assistance
14:14 mtompset     sudo su -
14:14 mtompset     and then do everything. ;)
14:14 wizzyrea     at the very least, we need to find some good basic tutorials on best practice
14:14 drojf        kf mveron that koct translation is tiny. i made it by accident while looking at the file :D
14:15 wizzyrea     that we can refer people to
14:15 wizzyrea     so if you know of some
14:19 paul_p_      entering "pushing bugs that passed QA" mode...
14:19 eythian      fact for today: Cleopatra lived closer chronologically to the moon landing than to the building of the pyramids.
14:20 paul_p_      hey ! eythian ! you break a myth !
14:20 paul_p_      ;-)
14:20 eythian      which myth?
14:20 trea         if you have an imported patron with an dateexpiry value, but the patron category they belonged to has an enrollment period, which is going to take precedence?
14:21 trea         is it a "whichever expires first" kind of situation?
14:21 paul_p_      eythian well, not sure which one in fact
14:21 eythian      trea: that's what I would expect, but I don't know for sure
14:21 wizzyrea     what happens if a patron's expiry is beyond the hard date in the category?
14:21 wizzyrea     do they expire with their category?
14:21 wizzyrea     or on the date in their record?
14:21 * paul_p_    is not sure too
14:23 drojf        if you set a date for the patron that should take precedence over the general category rule. no idea if that is the case though
14:23 mtompset     Sounds like a call for a www::mechanized testing for this case. ;)
14:24 mtompset     That reminds me... I found my library card from when I was in highschool.
14:24 mtompset     They expire them every two years. :(
14:24 drojf        hmm cannot test koct because the symbol goes in a toolbar that i have hidden in a way that i do not remember
14:25 eythian      drojf: you can usually re-enable them from the menus
14:25 eythian      or are you using pentadactyl?
14:25 drojf        no, i made it differently. i think some userfile, because it kept reappearing
14:26 eythian      if so: :set guioptions+=mT
14:26 eythian      oh right
14:26 eythian      I'd just create a new default profile
14:26 drojf        ah yes that would be easy :)
14:27 mtompset     No no... do it the hard way... it's more character building. ;)
14:31 drojf        hm no, there is just no button
14:32 mtompset     Oops... in my joy, I said "of course restart firefox."
14:32 mtompset     There goes my chatzilla.
14:33 oleonard     mtompset: http://chatzilla.rdmsoft.com/xulrunner/
14:34 drojf        lol mtompset
14:34 drojf        but i did a restart of course, still nothing
14:36 mtompset     Oh that's a cool idea!
14:36 mtompset     No need to go through menus to check it and out.
14:37 mtompset     and then mass upload when you have time.
14:38 * mtompset   is still waiting for the dselect to finish.
14:38 mveron       drojf ++ (for the koct translation)
14:42 kf           mveron++ :)
14:42 kf           oh and drojf++ :)
14:42 kf           mveron: I think we will need a patch to Koha too - so that the language chooser works correctly
14:42 mveron       kf: drojf did it!
14:43 kf           mveron: I am not sure how we want to do it - having a pull down for different german dialects will look interesting :)
14:43 drojf        where do we get the dialect translations from?
14:43 drojf        is swiss german done? :)
14:43 kf           mveron will do de-CH
14:44 mtompset     Actually, the language choosing thing at the bottom is ugly.
14:44 drojf        i call that thing now "Koha Offline-Verbuchung", nicht verbuchungswerkzeug or something like that, any objections (besides not meeting the koct acronym)?
14:44 mveron       kf: We do first the German translation. Then I download the .po files, do a search/replace with tze sz stuff and some terms, then I rename the files to ch-DE and upload them on Pootle
14:44 kf           nope sounds perfect to me
14:44 kf           that's what we call tools like that here
14:44 kf           Offline-Verbuchung
14:45 drojf        ok fine
14:45 drojf        there was one thing, wait
14:45 mtompset     Can we get pretty flags?
14:45 kf           mveron: yes, but when you install them, the language chooser will have a pull down for german, not a single link like now I think
14:45 drojf        what is a branchcode in the german translation? Zweig-Code sounds weird
14:45 kf           mveron: and the whole thing is based on some not so easy to understand database tables - so I think we need to teach it with a patch how to do that
14:46 kf           drojf: depends, I normally use the database column names when the document refers to the database
14:46 kf           else I would use Bibliothek
14:46 kf           ah
14:46 kf           Bibliothekscode? Bibliothekskürzel?
14:46 drojf        i think i'll go with bibliothekscode
14:47 drojf        kürzel looks better, but i think its more clear that they need the actual code if i name it that way
14:47 mtompset     oh come on! jcamins, the koha repository failed me.
14:47 kf           makes sense to me
14:48 mtompset     I thought all the dependencies were supposed to be listed.
14:48 drojf        The option "Apply directly" will directly apply your changes to Koha and should not be used usually.
14:48 drojf        wat?
14:49 eythian      mtompset: what are you missing?
14:49 mveron       kf: If it would be a total other language, let's say Gryphnian, what would have to be done?
14:49 mtompset     Template::Plugin... something...
14:50 kf           hmmm what about klingon?
14:50 mveron       Ok, klingon
14:50 mtompset     Template::Plugin::HtmlToText
14:50 kf           mveron: I am not sure really, I only know that we have to add the code to the database probably - but we can try it out easily, rename the files and try to install - if it shows up ok, all good :)
14:50 drojf        lol @ gryphnian
14:50 eythian      mtompset: that is in the repo
14:50 * kf         votes for klingon
14:51 mtompset     Okay, then it is NOT in the packages file.
14:51 eythian      squeeze|main|i386: libtemplate-plugin-htmltotext-perl 0.03-1koha1
14:51 eythian      it is
14:51 mtompset     like I said... the packages file is missing it.
14:51 eythian      oh wait, what packages file?
14:52 mtompset     install_misc/ubuntu.packages
14:52 eythian      right, that wasn't made with the koha repo in mind last I looked.
14:53 mtompset     That's why I had that little script the other day I was working on.
14:53 mtompset     I got the file cleaned up for 3.6.7
14:53 mtompset     It doesn't quite cut it for 3.8.3
14:56 mtompset     I assume Test::Strict is in there too?
14:56 eythian      No
14:56 eythian      Is it required?
14:56 eythian      I didn't see it come up when I checked the deps yesterday
14:57 mtompset     It's not required.
14:58 eythian      ah
14:58 eythian      maybe that's why it didn't come up
14:59 eythian      oh wait, I thought you were talking about the repo
14:59 eythian      I don't know if it's in the packages file or not
14:59 mtompset     Sorry. The terminology is confusing.
14:59 mtompset     Because the files I am complaining about are ubuntu.{version}.packages
15:00 mtompset     (or at least they will be once I submit my patch to master)
15:00 mveron       kf: Worked! I have now two "Deutsch" in the language menu, one Deutsch (de-DE) and one  Deutsch (de-CH)
15:00 kf           ah good
15:00 kf           but de-DE looks a bit ugly :(
15:01 eythian      Why does it have a language menu? Shouldn't it pick up the language settings from the browser?
15:01 kf           eythian: we want to switch languages - so you need a language chooser
15:01 mveron       KF: I think it is because I have now both Deutsch installed.
15:01 kf           mveron: maybe, not sure it's so clever
15:02 eythian      hmm, but it's a firefox plugin isn't it?
15:02 kf           eythian: not KOCT - Koha :)
15:02 eythian      ohh
15:02 eythian      as you were then :)
15:02 mtompset     Yes, but what if you want to use a language different than your browser?
15:02 mveron       eythian: We are in a coutry with several languages, so we have to hae the possibility to switch independently from the browser's language
15:03 eythian      that seems weird. Surely if you want to change the language for one thing, you want to change it for everything in the browser?
15:03 mtompset     I still think Koha should have pretty flags, and then tooltip the codes.
15:03 mveron       ...oh, same answer with other wording from different people...  :-)
15:03 reiveune     bye
15:03 eythian      yeah, I'm also confusing plugins with sites
15:03 * mveron     has to head to a shop before it closes...
15:03 kf           mtompset: flags only work if one country = one language
15:03 eythian      though, people should have their browser set with their preferred languages anyway :)
15:04 kf           but for example spanish english and german are spoken in more than one
15:04 mtompset     Yes, but that's why you tooltip the codes.
15:04 kf           eythian: public computers
15:04 kf           eythian: and switzerland has 3 official languages, I think norway has 2
15:04 eythian      spose
15:04 mtompset     put the german flag multiple times, different tool tips.
15:04 kf           and english exchange students
15:04 kf           we at least want german and english available to everyone everywhere
15:05 kf           the language chooser is really an important element and browser detection not a good way to do it
15:05 eythian      hmm. I think the better solution overall would be to make it easier to change in the browser, but that's outside the scope of Koha.
15:05 eythian      The browser has a neat thing for this
15:05 kf           right
15:06 kf           but people don't know how to change language settings in browsers
15:06 kf           and at the moment you can't deactivate english even if you wanted to
15:07 eythian      e.g. my browser sends: Accept-Language	nl,en-gb;q=0.8,en-nz;q=0.6,en;q=0.4,en-us;q=0.2
15:08 eythian      although en-nz should be 2nd not 3rd...
15:08 kf           yeah, but the library can't deactivate english
15:08 jcamins      You can't deactivate English?
15:08 jcamins      That's a problem.
15:08 eythian      can you not untick it?
15:09 kf           yeah, but it will still fall back to it I think
15:09 kf           rangi was complaining about it
15:09 eythian      ah right
15:09 kf           I think one library wanted only maori
15:09 eythian      yeah, that rings a bell actually
15:10 eythian      although, I'd think it would only do that if the template file didn't exist.
15:10 kf           not sure
15:10 kf           I think it could overall work better
15:11 kf           but it works - so please don't break it :)
15:11 eythian      it doesn't work all that well
15:11 eythian      if I switch to en-NZ things like news stop working
15:11 eythian      as they only work with en.
15:11 drojf        they do?
15:12 eythian      yep. At least, they did in 3.6.
15:12 kf           there is a bug for that
15:12 kf           they work for German
15:12 eythian      yeah
15:12 drojf        heh i thought so
15:12 kf           I think it's a problem for subdivided languages
15:12 eythian      it is
15:12 kf           so that's why I think we  need to do some testng for de-CH :)
15:12 eythian      you can only set the news for 'en', but it doesn't match that to 'en-NZ'
15:12 kf           not against it at all - only have to be a little careful adding it maybe
15:13 kf           like being a bit worried about display
15:13 kf           mailing lists?
15:13 wahanui      mailing lists are at http://koha-community.org/support/koha-mailing-lists/
15:15 jcamins      mtompset: the Template... package isn't required for 3.6.
15:15 mtompset     I know, but it is for 3.8.3
15:15 jcamins      The patch that adds it was rejected for 3.6.7 due to potential problems with dependencies.
15:15 kf           documentation?
15:15 wahanui      it has been said that documentation is at http://koha-community.org/documentation/
15:15 jcamins      And not having been tested.
15:16 jcamins      I'd reeeeaaallllyyyyyyyy like to see it in 3.6.8, though.
15:16 * kf         too
15:16 * jcamins    looks at kf significantly
15:16 kf           because then we can update transaltions again without manipulating template files
15:16 kf           well, it's still only fixed for the cart
15:16 kf           and we need the same fix for the lists :(
15:17 mtompset     what potential problem with dependencies?
15:17 mtompset     Is there a bug report somewhere?
15:17 jcamins      mtompset: that when I embargoed 3.6.7 it hadn't been packaged yet.
15:17 kf           search bugzilla for broken cart email I think
15:18 kf           it shoudl be on that bug
15:18 jcamins      The potential problem was the lack of libtemplate-plugin-htmltotext-perl.
15:18 mtompset     But it does exist, if you add the repositories.
15:18 * mtompset   cringes.
15:19 jcamins      mtompset: *now* it does.
15:19 mtompset     Ah.
15:19 jcamins      3.6.x has a one-month embargo.
15:19 mtompset     where you can't add dependencies.
15:19 mtompset     when
15:20 jcamins      No, you can add dependencies, but they have to be added more than a month before the planned release.
15:20 mtompset     Right. no adding dependencies at the last minute.
15:20 jcamins      Exactly.
15:20 * jcamins    is a bit paranoid about this.
15:23 * jcamins    is a bit paranoid about a lot of things.
15:23 jcamins      Which is why at some point he will adapt your script to be part of the release process.
15:23 mtompset     Would you like the newest version?
15:23 mtompset     I added some extra fixes.
15:23 jcamins      I'll wait until you have it working on 3.8.x and master.
15:23 jcamins      :)
15:24 jcamins      It's also going to have to handle different versions of Ubuntu while running under Debian, which may be a challenge.
15:24 mtompset     I don't think so.
15:24 mtompset     I think the script is pretty non-OS specific.
15:25 jcamins      Oh, *you* don't need it to.
15:25 jcamins      But running under Debian, I want to be alerted about any potential problems with Lucid, or Precise.
15:25 mtompset     "I don't think so" meant I don't think it would be a challenge.
15:25 jcamins      Oh. Excellent!
15:26 mtompset     I don't see anything in the script which would be OS specific to its running environment.
15:26 jcamins      Well, apt-file will have to use different databases, I imagine.
15:27 mtompset     Yes, but that is external to the script.
15:27 mtompset     The script in its current state detects if apt-file is installed
15:27 mtompset     AND
15:27 mtompset     if you remembered to run apt-file update
15:27 mtompset     (at least once)
15:28 mtompset     50% through the install instructions... no major glitches.
15:28 mtompset     Just have to read, and pay attention.
15:29 jcamins      Hehe. That's the hard part.
15:29 mtompset     Some of my external Wiki links are important.
15:30 jcamins      Oh, nice and easy.
15:30 jcamins      Just use different sources.list files.
15:30 slef         jcamins: ITYM sources.list.d files
15:31 eythian      slef: ITYM sources.list.d directories
15:31 eythian      (although probably not in this case, as it's for apt-file)
15:31 jcamins      slef: apt-file has an argument for sources.list only.
15:32 mtompset     --sources-list | -s sources.list
15:32 mtompset     Sets the sources.list file to a  different  value
15:32 mtompset     from its default /etc/apt/sources.list.
15:32 jcamins      :)
15:32 jcamins      Easy as pie.
15:33 slef         sources.list.d files are usable as that I think
15:33 mtompset     Does that mean it doesn't check sources.list.d files?>
15:33 jcamins      mtompset: I think sources.list.d/* is included by sources.list?
15:33 jcamins      No.
15:33 jcamins      Hm.
15:34 jcamins      Don't know what to make of that, then.
15:34 mtompset     well, if I try to run my script on 3.8.3
15:34 mtompset     it should barf on things only in the k-c repo.
15:35 mtompset     well, say they are missing, not barf.
15:35 mtompset     and if it does, then I probably should add a loop in there for adding the other repos.
15:36 jcamins      The man page mentions sources.list.d, so maybe it does check that?
15:36 wizzyrea     oleonard: your library is pretty awesome
15:36 oleonard     Oh yeah, who says?
15:36 wizzyrea     ME
15:36 wizzyrea     :)
15:36 mtompset     perhaps.
15:37 * wizzyrea   just saw that you have a big truck filled with gadgets in your parking lot
15:37 jcamins      mtompset: I just checked, and it uses sources.list.d, provided you don't specify -s
15:37 oleonard     Hah, yeah. wizzyrea's spy satellites come through again.
15:37 jcamins      o.O
15:37 * wizzyrea   flexes
15:37 mtompset     that's good. :)
15:37 wizzyrea     actually, someone posted it on facebook :P
15:37 oleonard     Facebook, spy satellites, same thing.
15:37 wizzyrea     keke
15:38 * libsysguy  goes to stalk oleonard on facebook
15:38 mtompset     libsysguy?
15:38 wahanui      libsysguy is probably Koha's hottest developer or partying with swedes on his deck
15:38 oleonard     libsysguy: You'll have to stalk the Athens County Public Libraries to see what wizzyrea is seeing I think
15:38 libsysguy    heh
15:38 * wizzyrea   was following ACPL
15:38 mtompset     Is oleonard swedish? ;)
15:38 libsysguy    I don't think so
15:39 libsysguy    omg oleonard you drive a Semi!?!?!
15:39 oleonard     wizzyrea: I hope the "digital bookmobile" helps some patrons, but I have the same mixed feelings about it that I have about ebooks in general
15:39 wizzyrea     yep, it's the same as how I feel about the statewide service here
15:40 libsysguy    fwiw Anna gets really excited that she can checkout ebooks
15:40 magnuse      hm, you'd think a *digital* bookmobile would look less physical, perhaps? ;-)
15:40 oleonard     Overdrive sponsors the on-site training in order to encourage libraries to sign up, so it's all profit-driven
15:40 libsysguy    book mobile on SL?
15:41 jcamins      Hehe.
15:44 mtompset     53% through the installation document.
15:44 mtompset     I am so skipping uninstalling and upgrading. :)
15:55 mtompset     sudo make install
15:55 mtompset     FINALLY!
15:57 eythian      jcamins: do you think we should tell mtompset that there are packages that work on Ubuntu too? ;)
15:58 mtompset     you mean the koha-common?
15:58 eythian      Yeah :)
15:58 kf           eythian: ah no, that would be mean after all his work :)
15:59 vfernandes   hi guys
15:59 mtompset     by the way, are those referenced in the wiki somewhere?
15:59 eythian      yeah
15:59 drojf        digital book mobile? i picture an access point on a radio controlled car and have drive-by downloads
15:59 eythian      mtompset: see the top of the koha on ubuntu page.
15:59 wizzyrea     haha I like that drojf
15:59 wizzyrea     like the google street view of mobile downloads
16:00 eythian      find open network shares on open wifi networks and uploads stuff to them as it goes past?
16:00 drojf        or, well, it's 2012, maybe an ebook drone
16:00 wizzyrea     yea pretty much ;)
16:00 vfernandes   i'm having 1 problem... the system preference dontmerge is set to "Do" but when I change one authority, the data in the records don't change
16:00 wizzyrea     an ebook drone would be cool too, except for the bombing innocents thing.
16:01 mtompset     sorry, but Quick start loses me.
16:01 vfernandes   i'm doing something wrong?
16:01 drojf        bombing with knowledge!
16:02 eythian      mtompset: it's easier in practice than what you're doing, I expect.
16:03 mtompset     perhaps... except, how would that work behind a reverse proxy?
16:03 eythian      very easily
16:03 eythian      you just set it up exactly the way you normally would, perhaps with some internal names, and point the proxy to it
16:03 mtompset     the domain name and everything would be the same?
16:03 jcamins      vfernandes: I don't think authority merging works.
16:03 eythian      well, you can always change them after installation
16:03 eythian      just tweaking the apache config
16:04 eythian      About half of my installations are behind a reverse proxy I think.
16:09 jcamins      I don't see how there's any difference between going through all the installation manually and using the packages, except the first way takes a whole bunch of steps and manual work, and the second doesn't.
16:09 mtompset     Well, there still are config steps.
16:09 jcamins      If you have a reverse proxy, you have to edit the Apache config file no matter what.
16:09 mtompset     It does reduce the number of steps.
16:09 jcamins      Yes, but you will do the exact same config steps with both.
16:10 jcamins      The difference is with the package the upgrade is more-or-less foolproof.
16:10 * paul_p_    hates failing QA on patches...(bug 5409 and bug 8163)
16:10 mtompset     I'll be trying a koha-common install in the future.
16:11 * eythian    goes home, later all
16:11 kf           have anice evening
16:12 mtompset     Perhaps INSTALL.ubuntu.via_packages?
16:13 mtompset     INSTALL.ubuntu.manually?
16:13 jcamins      mtompset: what about just one file, that says "if you're using packages, do this, and meet back up at step 30."
16:13 kf           hm
16:14 kf           is it wise to put the file in there in this case?
16:14 kf           if you have downloaded and unpacked it, it might be too late?
16:14 kf           hm no, perhaps not
16:14 kf           ignore me :)
16:14 mtompset     once I do a koha-common install, I'll have a better idea.
16:15 mtompset     but that is probably a good idea.
16:15 drojf        and then you wonder what you did all the manual stuff for :D
16:15 mtompset     for testing and documenting history. :P
16:15 mtompset     and for the glory of doing it yourself.
16:16 drojf        funny question, but can i copy in git from one branch to another with some magick trick?
16:17 drojf        more magic than switching branches manually and copy stuff at some temp place that is
16:17 mtompset     oh. :(
16:18 drojf        ah i could just do git merge in this case i guess
16:18 drojf        or not. better read what it does first :D
16:19 kf           drojf: git cherry-pick maybe?
16:19 drojf        aaah that sounds more like it
16:20 kf           I used it once to backport patches from a 3.y to a 3.x
16:20 kf           worked nicely
16:22 drojf        kf++ # that worked
16:23 jcamins      drojf: I do git checkout branch -- file
16:23 jcamins      Followed by git reset
16:23 jcamins      (to unstage it)
16:23 kf           :)
16:24 mtompset     Shoot... found another bug in the docs.
16:24 jcamins      drojf: what are you trying to do?
16:24 jcamins      First question?
16:24 wahanui      "What are you trying to do?"  "What is the goal?" or "What problem are you experiencing?"
16:26 mtompset     Shoot! I just learned about things missing in the crontab!
16:27 drojf        jcamins: i sent a small patch that i would like to enhance at some point. but i also want to keep the state i have now so i can do followups on what i sent in, so i cherrypicked the commit to a new branch
16:27 mtompset     the misc/cronjobs/crontab.example --- are all those things necessary?
16:27 jcamins      mtompset: no, they are examples.
16:27 jcamins      drojf: okay, so what exactly is the problem?
16:27 drojf        notjing
16:28 drojf        it worked with kf's help :)
16:28 jcamins      Oh. Excellent. :)
16:28 drojf        i just did not know how to do it, cherry pick was the answer
16:29 mtompset     # OVERDUE NOTICES
16:29 mtompset     0    1 * * *  $KOHA_CRON_PATH/overdue_notices.pl -t
16:29 mtompset     some are good to have, like this one, right?
16:29 jcamins      That's pretty critical if you want to send overdue notices.
16:30 jcamins      Right.
16:31 JoeLib001    Hello. :-) Has anyone used the Koha Reports to create a "Barcode Slip". The Barcode Slip I need to create needs to be printable in a 3x5 format. I know all of the fields and have created a test report with the data I need.
16:32 jcamins      JoeLib001: no, the reports module doesn't do barcode slips. You might have more luck with the label tool.
16:32 JoeLib001    I will look at that then. :-) Thanks.
16:32 mtompset     Oh, another question, while I think of it... can you do a meaningful development install off of koha-common?
16:33 jcamins      mtompset: no, one does development installs with git.
16:33 jcamins      You can't do a useful development install from a tarball, either.
16:34 mtompset     okay... and koha-common is purposefully suited to multiple-sites, but you only have to install one site?
16:34 jcamins      Right.
16:34 mtompset     Then it would seem that the tarball is best for "only one site ever".
16:35 jcamins      Right.
16:35 jcamins      And even then it's not a good idea, if you're on a deb-based system.
16:35 mtompset     Correct.
16:36 mtompset     So the method of installation is really a combination of what OS am I on and what will I be doing.
16:37 jcamins      Right. If you're developing, you should use git. If you're not developing on a deb-based system, you should use packages. If you're not developing on a different flavour of Linux, you should use the tarball.
16:37 kf           translatable koct a full success :)
16:37 jenkins_koha Starting build #790 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #773 20 days ago)
16:37 wizzyrea     which install do I use is <reply> If you're developing, you should use git. If you're not developing on a deb-based system, you should use packages. If you're not developing on a different flavour of Linux, you should use the tarball.
16:38 jcamins      which install do I use?
16:38 wizzyrea     aw
16:38 jcamins      which install do wizzyrea use?
16:38 * wizzyrea   will try again
16:38 drojf        bad bot
16:38 jcamins      which install do wahanui use?
16:38 wizzyrea     which install to use?
16:38 wahanui      If you're developing, you should use git. If you're not developing on a deb-based system, you should use packages. If you're not developing on a different flavour of Linux, you should use the tarball.
16:38 wizzyrea     there we go
16:38 jcamins      :)
16:39 JoeLib001    I was reading the help on Labels and it says: "Currently all fields in the following tables are used: items, biblioitems, biblio, branches" Does that mean I can't use fields from aqorders and o?
16:39 jcamins      That is correct.
16:40 jcamins      I think.
16:40 JoeLib001    Can I make it? :-)
16:40 jcamins      JoeLib001: I am sure it is possible. I have no idea how much work it would involve.
16:40 wizzyrea     yep, and if you do, submit a patch
16:41 JoeLib001    Yeah, we'll see where the dark rabbit hole leads. It might not have a bottom or it might have spikes at the bottom. :-)
16:42 wizzyrea     or it might be a portal to a magical land of happiness and wonder.
16:42 wizzyrea     never know.
16:42 JoeLib001    Could be. Hehe. :-)
16:42 mtompset     wizzyrea++ # yay for optimism!
16:42 wizzyrea     could also be an alternate universe where the laws of physics are completely different from the ones we know here.
16:42 wizzyrea     WE JUST DON'T KNOW :) :)
16:43 wizzyrea     do let us know what you find though.
16:43 JoeLib001    I think the Alice computer game was probably more correct than the original movie. :-)
16:43 JoeLib001    Will do.
16:44 * wizzyrea   played that game
16:44 wizzyrea     had nightmares for weeks.
16:45 oleonard     Alice computer game?
16:46 mtompset     I was looking at INSTALL.debian.
16:46 drojf        not in the debian packages it seems :P
16:46 drojf        the alice game i mean
16:46 mtompset     It's as bad as UBUNTU's!
16:47 wizzyrea     fix it then :P
16:47 JoeLib001    Hehe. :-)
16:47 wizzyrea     you should have seen it before we fixed it the last time.
16:47 drojf        "Skype, together with Norton, Adobe and TomTom, is spreading the word about why it's important to keep your software in top condition" lol. a bunch of companies whose software's deinstallation would be the best update
16:47 mtompset     It's 12:45am... I just barely made it to 5.2 in my modified instructions for Ubuntu.
16:54 paul_p_      nengard_lunch = pls look at http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8392#c11
16:54 paul_p_      @later tell nengard  = pls look at http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8392#c11
16:55 jcamins      paul_p_: no huginn.
16:55 drojf        paul_p_: later does not work
16:55 jcamins      :(
16:55 paul_p_      yep, that's what I understood.
16:55 kf           bye all
16:55 drojf        bye kf
16:56 paul_p_      OK, time to leave for me now. "passed QA" queue almost empty. Busy afternoon !
17:29 limon_away   I bought my TomTom specifically because it runs on Linux. Hate the Windows-only "My TomTom" interface for updates.
17:29 jcamins      limon_away: well that's ironic.
17:29 jcamins      At least it doesn't require DOS, I guess?
17:30 jcamins      (though at least you could use FreeDOS, I suppose...)
17:32 JoeLib001    Hehe, I hacked my tomtom and added a mp3 player, a video player, and a linux boot image. ;-)
17:34 JoeLib001    Well, I use the term hacked loosely as I didn't do much work. :-)
17:36 JoeLib001    I can't add an "item" to the Batch Label Queue. I don't have an item associated with the record. Would that be my problem?
17:37 JoeLib001    I have a whole slew of errors in my error log too.
17:37 jcamins      JoeLib001: probably you need an item, but I don't really know.
17:37 JoeLib001    Here is part of one of my errors.
17:37 JoeLib001    Cannot add or update a child row: a foreign key constraint fails (`koha`.`creator_batches`, CONSTRAINT `creator_batches_ibfk_3` FOREIGN KEY (`item_number`) REFERENCES `items` (`itemnumber`) ON DELETE CASCADE) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Creators/Batch.pm line 72
17:39 jcamins      That's a problem.
17:39 JoeLib001    Looks like I don't have a profile id either. Which is odd as there are profiles with profile IDs.
17:39 jcamins      Sounds like you have a seriously screwed up database.
17:40 JoeLib001    I don't have any items in my database yet.
17:40 JoeLib001    All I have are records.
17:40 JoeLib001    I opted not to add items per Journal Subscription creation.
17:41 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #790: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 3 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/790/
17:41 jenkins_koha * fridolyn.somers: Bug 8476: Little bug in OPAC XSLT on OPACURLOpenInNewWindow
17:41 jenkins_koha * dpavlin: Bug 8439 - Printing basketgroup does not work on plack
17:41 jenkins_koha * kyle.m.hall: BugFix - ReturnToShelvingCart
17:41 jenkins_koha * dpavlin: Bug 8442 - labels creator fixes for plack
17:41 jenkins_koha * dcook: Bug 8448 - Holds Awaiting Pickup : Cancelling a hold on a waiting item with multiple holds displays a blank screen instead of a warning prompt
17:41 jenkins_koha * dcook: Bug 8414 - Intranet header toplinks display white rather than blue in < IE8
17:41 jenkins_koha * fridolyn.somers: Bug 8440: Dates does not appear in suggestions management
17:41 jenkins_koha * ruth: Bug 8392: Category age ranges not being enforced
17:41 jenkins_koha * f.demians: Bug 8392: Avoid having an untranslatable age range
17:41 jenkins_koha * m.de.rooy: 8062 Followup for HTML::FormatText
17:41 jenkins_koha * magnus: Bug 7367 - One "the" too many
17:41 jenkins_koha * dcook: Bug 8434 - Notice generation fails for Advanced Notices, Item Due, and Overdues when run in shell (due to error in Letters.pm)
17:41 jenkins_koha * julian.maurice: Bug 8376: New script to export borrowers misc/export_borrowers.pl
17:41 jcamins      JoeLib001: well, maybe the label tool requires items.
17:42 JoeLib001    The labels are for our book acquisitions. So maybe, I need to work out how we are doing the Acquistions then.
17:42 JoeLib001    I have it so that it doesn't create the item until we "receive" the book.
17:43 JoeLib001    So, we probably need to add the item to the book as soon as we enter the order in Acquisitions?
17:44 qwerty       how to change the opac background with our image file
17:45 jcamins      qwerty: you can use CSS.
17:47 jcamins      oleonard's blog
17:47 wahanui      oleonard's blog is http://www.myacpl.org/koha
17:47 jcamins      qwerty: you might look there for ideas. ^^
17:47 qwerty       in opacusercss .tell me the script
17:49 jcamins      qwerty: it's the same way you would change the background for any other page.
17:49 qwerty       i want to add out library building is in opac background on search bar
17:50 jcamins      I think probably if you set the 'background' CSS property for the search bar, that would work.
17:52 qwerty       yes am looking for changing background in search bar
17:52 jcamins      You could also find another OPAC that does that, and take a look at the CSS they used.
17:54 JoeLib001    Yeah, once I add an item to one of the records everything works.
17:56 JoeLib001    I will have to look at our Acquisitions process and make sure we add an item when we create the record.
17:56 JoeLib001    Thanks for the help guys. :-)
17:56 jcamins      Hey, you're the one who did all the figuring things out. :)
17:57 drojf        unlike someone else
17:57 jcamins      Heh.
17:57 jcamins      drojf: I probably shouldn't have said anything.
17:58 drojf        i really wonder if it is a language thing or a culture thing or a person thing. this way of interaction
17:59 jcamins      If s/he had tried *at all* I would've explained how to do it.
18:00 jcamins      Even pulled up a web browser to find the name of the element.
18:00 drojf        also the way of using a new nick every time you come in. makes it seem like you know you should be hiding
18:00 jcamins      I presume the theory is that we must be stupid since we're giving away our work, so maybe we won't make the connection.
18:01 drojf        lol
18:16 drojf        do i have to restart sshd after a new interface comes up? i can't connect via wifi, also not eth0 if i plug it in later (not at boot)
18:19 jcamins      I'd never heard of that.
18:22 jcamins      Oooh.
18:22 jcamins      I could roll the truffles in coconut!
18:24 drojf        :)
18:24 * jcamins    has been on a no-bake dessert kick recently.
18:25 Morthland    How can I set a default item type?
18:55 jcamins      drojf: if you didn't figure it out yet, I realized what the problem probably is with sshd.
18:55 jcamins      You have it set up to listen on a specific IP.
18:57 drojf        jcamins: thanks, i stopped looking for it to write an email to duckduckgo that the relevancy of their search results has become horrible
18:57 drojf        which annoyed me a lot when i searched fot he ssh thing
18:57 jcamins      I thought ddg was supposed to have excellent relevancy?
18:57 drojf        was
18:57 drojf        no idea what is going on
18:58 drojf        but i regoogle almost everything at the moment
19:00 drojf        http://duck.co/topic/relavency-in-ddg-and-google-result#28469000001212063 seems like they know it already
19:04 wizzyrea     well google just did a huuuuuuge push on relevancy
19:04 wizzyrea     so it's possible that google just recently got a lot better.
19:04 drojf        i almost never used google the last two years
19:04 drojf        so that can't be it for me
19:04 wizzyrea     right I"m talking in the last 2 months
19:05 drojf        but yes, while ddg seemed sucky, google looked less sucky than before
19:05 wizzyrea     google changed their ranking/relevancy algorithm
19:06 drojf        i had the impression that a lot of the hits for people _selling_ stuff that i want to read _about_ (and not buy) have vanished. i like that
19:06 drojf        and other junk
19:08 wizzyrea     is batch patron mod new?
19:08 drojf        also google sends me 2-3 people every day to look at my ikea lunch box raspberry pi case :D
19:09 jcamins      wizzyrea: I think so.
19:09 jcamins      Speaking of Google, I need to switch to Piwik.
19:10 drojf        speaking of that, it's really scary what stuff i can see about people visiting my website, the hoster has urchin running for everybody, which i think is pre-google anayltics
19:11 drojf        but you should switch to piwik :)
19:13 drojf        and i should find out how to make them anonymize my logs. it took only two weeks to get them to reenable me to install mediawiki in my db, so a service they don't advertise can surely only take a few months (or a "no"). that's what you get for 2,50 a month
19:15 jcamins      drojf: No wonder service is so problematic- that's absurdly inexpensive!
19:17 drojf        yes indeed :D i wanted to get microhosting for that money, but those people did not really answer my emails, so i thought i'd just try this, how bad can it be for that price ;) i don't really have money to spend on such things at the moment
19:21 drojf        nice, fast reply from ddg
19:30 rangi        Morning
19:30 rangi        And zomg
19:31 drojf        hey rangi
19:31 * jcamins    isn't quite sure what latter is in response to.
19:31 drojf        and ?
19:32 rangi        Items in 090
19:32 jcamins      Heh.
19:32 jcamins      Yeah.
19:33 rangi        0 chance that will work
19:33 jcamins      Ya know, we could actually fix this, once the search rewrite was completed.
19:33 rangi        Yep
19:34 jcamins      Want to map something to somewhere dumb?
19:34 jcamins      No problem.
19:34 drojf        lol
19:34 jcamins      (not that 090 is that dumb)
19:34 jcamins      Also, we'd have to get rid of GRS-1, but that was always just an awful idea.
19:34 rangi        Yep
19:35 rangi        But for now changing mapping and hoping for the best is about it
19:35 jcamins      Yup.
19:36 JoeLib001    drojf: You made a raspberry pi case from a lunchbox?
19:36 mib_vdxzbe   hello
19:36 mib_vdxzbe   Can anyone help me, this is the error i am getting, Unparsable version '' for prerequisite Test::Strict at Makefile.PL line 557. Warning: prerequisite CGI::Session::Driver::memcached 0.04 not found. Warning: prerequisite Template::Plugin::HtmlToText 0.03 not found. Warning: prerequisite Test::Strict 0 not found. ERROR from evaluation of /build/koha-3.08.03/pe
19:36 drojf        JoeLib001: it had a good size ;)
19:36 JoeLib001    Hehe. :-)
19:36 jcamins      JoeLib001: it saved the raspberry pi from dunking in soda.
19:36 JoeLib001    I made mine out of legos. :-)
19:37 jcamins      mib_vdxzbe: those are just warnings. You should be able to ignore them.
19:37 drojf        that was what i wanted to do :)
19:37 drojf        but then these things were lying around
19:37 JoeLib001    Hehe. :-) Is it water tight?
19:37 mib_vdxzbe   anybody?
19:37 wahanui      hmmm... anybody is here
19:37 jcamins      There is a patch to fix the first (but you can ignore it), and the others can be installed from the apt repo at debian.koha-community.org
19:38 mib_vdxzbe   Ok
19:38 drojf        it was tight enough for the bottle of water i poured over my desk shortly after i made the case :D
19:38 JoeLib001    Cool. :-)
19:38 mib_vdxzbe   how do i add the apt repo?
19:38 JoeLib001    Yeah, my lego case would not protect it from water very well. Lots of open space around the connectors.
19:39 jcamins      debian?
19:39 wahanui      debian is what most people use and there are good manuals and even packages for that
19:39 drojf        but it has holes for the cables of course, so it won't swim well. at least not without the raspi dying
19:39 mib_vdxzbe   ubuntu
19:39 jcamins      koha on debian?
19:39 wahanui      koha on debian is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.8_on_Debian_Squeeze
19:39 jcamins      That's what I was looking for ^^
19:39 mib_vdxzbe   oh
19:39 mib_vdxzbe   ok
19:39 mib_vdxzbe   so get that?
19:39 jcamins      I didn't remember the URL, and I knew our bot had it somewhere in its memory. ;)
19:39 mib_vdxzbe   haha
19:39 jcamins      Step 1 or 2 on the page is how to add the apt repo.
19:39 drojf        JoeLib001: installed koha on the raspberry pi already? :P
19:39 JoeLib001    Yeah. Would be an interesting project to see about making it water tight. Would need special connectors and such probably.
19:39 mib_vdxzbe   thanks
19:40 JoeLib001    Hahahaha! No.
19:40 JoeLib001    :-)
19:40 drojf        works well!
19:40 drojf        kind of :)
19:40 JoeLib001    Really?
19:40 drojf        yes
19:40 drojf        i develop on it
19:40 JoeLib001    Yeah, figured the kind of. Probably would work well for a small collection though.
19:40 JoeLib001    Hmm......
19:40 drojf        with plack it runs ok
19:40 drojf        without it's horribly slow
19:41 JoeLib001    What is plack?
19:41 wahanui      plack is working quite nice.
19:41 drojf        http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Plack
19:41 wahanui      http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Plack is, like, probably good place to get started with latest development
19:41 jcamins      wahanui: forget plack
19:41 wahanui      jcamins: I forgot plack
19:42 jcamins      Plack is <reply> Plack is a FastCGI thingy that works with Koha. See http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Plack for more information.
19:42 jcamins      plack?
19:42 wahanui      Plack is a FastCGI thingy that works with Koha. See http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Plack for more information.
19:43 mib_vdxzbe   bob is <reply> Bob is an awsome dude
19:43 mib_vdxzbe   bob?
19:43 wahanui      i think bob is doing sys admins now
19:43 drojf        yeah i just saw there is not much about what it actually is on that page :) it caches a lot of stuff and makes pages load faster
19:43 mib_vdxzbe   aw :(
19:44 JoeLib001    Cool. :-)
19:44 drojf        JoeLib001: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_a_Raspberry_Pi
19:44 jcamins      raspberry pi?
19:44 wahanui      raspberry pi is arm-based
19:44 jcamins      forget raspberry pi
19:44 wahanui      jcamins: I forgot raspberry pi
19:45 jcamins      raspberry pi is <reply> Raspberry Pi embedded computers run Koha just fine. :) See http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_a_Raspberry_Pi
19:45 jcamins      raspberry pi?
19:45 wahanui      Raspberry Pi embedded computers run Koha just fine. :) See http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_a_Raspberry_Pi
19:45 drojf        :)
19:45 JoeLib001    Sweet. :-) I like it.
19:47 mib_vdxzbe   jcamins, i did what you said, still says Unparsable version '' for prerequisite Test::Strict at Makefile.PL line 557. ERROR from evaluation of /build/koha-3.08.03/perl-ldap-0.38/Makefile.PL: Can't locate Module/Install/Admin.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /build/koha-3.08.03 /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.12.4 /usr/local/share/perl/5.12.4 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/sha
19:47 JoeLib001    I've been thinking about creating a catalog of my own books, dvds, games, etc. That way when I see something I like and don't remember if I bought it yet. I can just search it. hehe.
19:48 jcamins      Ah, I didn't see the last error.
19:48 wizzyrea     JoeLib001: are you familiar with librarything?
19:48 jcamins      The Unparsable version error can just be ignored.
19:48 drojf        heh nice. i think about making koha my video library
19:48 mib_vdxzbe   but it stops
19:48 jcamins      The other one has nothing to do with Koha.
19:48 mib_vdxzbe   oh
19:48 drojf        unfortunately html5 does not play avi
19:48 wizzyrea     (if you don't want to, say, run a koha instance)
19:48 JoeLib001    wizzyrea: Somewhat. Haven't looked into it.
19:48 mib_vdxzbe   how do i fix it?
19:48 drojf        but mp4 and mkv seems to work
19:49 jcamins      mib_vdxzbe: no idea. Use the packages for whatever it is you're trying to install.
19:49 mib_vdxzbe   trying to install koha
19:50 jcamins      mib_vdxzbe: but you are currently installing perl-ldap 0.38?
19:50 mib_vdxzbe   no
19:50 mib_vdxzbe   i'm running the makefile.pl
19:50 jcamins      You should try `sudo apt-get install libmodule-install-perl` to install Module::Install.
19:51 mib_vdxzbe   ok
19:51 jcamins      What is perl-ldap-0.38, though?
19:51 mib_vdxzbe   no idea
19:51 jcamins      It's on your system.
19:51 mib_vdxzbe   oh, well i'm not sure what it is
19:52 jcamins      You must have downloaded it manually?
19:52 JoeLib001    wizzyrea: Yeah, I don't much care to create another account. Not to mention I would be using their hosting and such. Google already has part of my soul. I don't need to give another part of it. hehe. ;-)
19:52 mib_vdxzbe   maybe
19:52 jcamins      The Koha tarballs don't include a directory called perl-ldap-0.38.
19:52 mib_vdxzbe   oh
19:53 jcamins      mib_vdxzbe: what instructions are you following?
19:53 jcamins      koha on ubuntu?
19:53 wahanui      it has been said that koha on ubuntu is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
19:53 jcamins      ^^ that page should have good, detailed instructions.
19:53 drojf        heh
19:54 mib_vdxzbe   ok ,well now it says, ERROR from evaluation of /build/koha-3.08.03/perl-ldap-0.38/Makefile.PL: Cannot find an extension with method 'Meta_ArrayKeys' at /usr/share/perl5/Module/Install/Admin.pm line 186.
19:54 jcamins      You need to start over, I think.
19:54 jcamins      perl-ldap-0.38 has nothing to do with Koha.
19:54 mib_vdxzbe   oh
19:55 jcamins      I would do the following: `mv /build/koha-3.08.03 /build/koha-3.08.03-old`
19:55 mib_vdxzbe   i have been fallowing this http://www.blazingmoon.org/news/2008/12/install-koha-on-ubuntu-part-4-koha/
19:55 jcamins      `tar zxvf koha-3.08.03.tar.gz`
19:55 jcamins      Oh my.
19:55 jcamins      That's four years old.
19:55 jcamins      That will not be helpful. :(
19:55 jcamins      The instructions on the wiki are accurate.
19:55 mib_vdxzbe   o
19:55 mib_vdxzbe   k
19:55 * cait       waves
19:56 JoeLib001    Where is the docs folder at in koha?
19:56 jcamins      drojf: didn't you comment on that post to tell them that it was out of date?
19:56 rangi        Ok my stop
19:56 rangi        Bbiab
19:57 drojf        jcamins: i think so, yes. but it does not seem to be there
19:57 jcamins      Guess they didn't like losing traffic.
19:57 drojf        yup :(
19:58 drojf        "i get visitors" -- "my information is outdated" -- "but i get visitors" …
19:58 jcamins      What about "okay, then, update your damn guide so that it doesn't result in broken systems."
19:59 JoeLib001    Hehe. ;-)
19:59 drojf        "but i'm not interested in koha anymore" -- "but i get visitors"
19:59 jcamins      lol
20:05 drojf        he has an "about"-page, a "contact"-page that is the same "about"-page and we should contact him via his website. for somebody doing business of some kind it seems like a weird contacting philosophy to not even have an email address somewhere
20:05 Shane-S      quick question on the admin login screen it defaults to "My Library" in the bottom drop down. Can I remove that so just the library(ies) we setup appear?
20:05 jcamins      Shane-S: "My library" is a synonym for "the library that my user is attached to."
20:07 Shane-S      okay, but is it something I can remove for my user who might not understand that?
20:07 jcamins      Shane-S: I believe you can use intranetuserjs to do that.
20:07 oleonard     Shane-S: If you remove it your user will always have to choose their library manually
20:07 oleonard     Shane-S: I don't think that's easier.
20:07 jcamins      Yes, but better to just tell them what "My library" means.
20:07 jcamins      Good point, oleonard.
20:07 Shane-S      ah okay, I will just say "ignore it" then :P
20:08 jcamins      You'll have everyone checking things out from the wrong library by default.
20:08 oleonard     Shane-S: You are running a multi-branch system?
20:08 Shane-S      We only have 1 Library is why I asked
20:08 jcamins      Right, so don't worry about that box.
20:08 oleonard     Won't turning on singlebranchmode remove that box?
20:09 Shane-S      I "may" add a small building lending library down the road
20:09 jcamins      oleonard: yeah, but doesn't it break holds or something?
20:09 * oleonard   doesn't know
20:09 Shane-S      but for now it is just our main school library, then I will look into adding faculty books/videos to keep track of them
20:11 Shane-S      well thanks very much for the help, I will be back often soon as I have to begin getting this system live
20:11 Shane-S      I at least cut my install down from 1 day to 4 hours to 2 hours. Packages are lovely and knowing what to fix ahead of time helps :)
20:15 * drojf      sent an email to the blog guy
20:16 drojf        "I'll be away from work through Friday 7/27 and will be checking my work email only infrequently. Once I return to work I'll get back to you as soon as I'm able."
20:16 oleonard     Did you tell him we were coming over there to rough him up?
20:16 rangi        lol
20:17 drojf        heh
20:17 rangi        check this our
20:17 rangi        out even
20:18 rangi        http://jenkins.koha-community.org/cigame/?
20:18 oleonard     What are the scores based on?
20:19 rangi        each build gets a score allocated
20:19 rangi        build 790 for master, got 3 points
20:19 rangi        you get 1 point for each new test that passes
20:19 rangi        -10 for breaking a build
20:19 jcamins      Humbug.
20:19 jcamins      I'll never get any points.
20:20 rangi        -1 for every test that fails
20:20 rangi        increasing testing coverage gets points
20:20 wizzyrea     well
20:20 rangi        so you should get points for that
20:20 wizzyrea     what about 2 steps forward, one step back
20:20 wizzyrea     :P
20:20 wizzyrea     so +2 for a new test
20:20 wizzyrea     -1 for breaking something
20:20 rangi        yep
20:20 rangi        the build would be worth 1 at that point
20:20 * wizzyrea   likes forward momentum
20:21 rangi        http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/790/cigame/
20:21 rangi        tells you the score for each build
20:21 jcamins      Okay, time to head home.
20:23 rangi        just some silliness, but silliness makes life enjoyable :)
20:23 cait         too true :)
20:23 cait         why would a library want stop words?
20:24 cait         I mean seriously
20:24 rangi        habit
20:24 cait         what is the point of having a list of words that is not searchable??
20:24 rangi        well stop words for sorting
20:24 rangi        that makes sense
20:24 cait         yes
20:24 cait         but you do that with non filing characters normally
20:24 cait         or with indicators
20:24 * rangi      points stacy to the thread with brooke and jcamins
20:24 cait         not with a list
20:25 drojf        isn't she using ll anyway?
20:26 * oleonard   wonders if Stacy reads the list when she's not posting to it
20:26 rangi        yes, she is
20:26 rangi        not by choice tho
20:26 cait         hm
20:28 oleonard     The real question is why she thinks having stopwords would help. Sounds like an unresolved searching problem.
20:28 rangi        their system is broken
20:28 rangi        we all know that
20:29 oleonard     True. Did they mess up the searching as well?
20:29 rangi        it's their MO
20:29 rangi        it's what they do
20:29 rangi        searching, circulation, virtual shelves, peoples lives
20:31 rangi        [off] they are switching to solr, it was in the SCLS minutes i suspect she is trying to see if tht will actually fix anything or just compound the problem
20:32 drojf        it probabyl won't fix anything if they do it the ll way
20:32 drojf        probably even
20:37 wizzyrea     stacy is from waldo though?
20:40 rangi        yup
20:40 rangi        but its to replace zebra ... they are koha 2009 stage still
20:41 drojf        must be fun
20:41 drojf        i know a blog that might fit their installation needs ;)
20:41 oleonard     Just imagine how much more behind they'd be if they weren't so agile.
20:41 rangi        (in terms of zebra/solr that is)
20:41 cait         lol
20:42 cait         hey, they are already at version 4
20:42 rangi        5 now
20:42 cait         !
20:42 cait         since when?
20:43 drojf        that reminds me, what about koha release names? we should really have this
20:43 rangi        liblime academic koha 5.0
20:43 libsysguy    [off] https://github.com/ctfliblime/LibLime-Koha
20:44 cjh          rangi: shouldnt that be liblime academic KOHA 5.0?
20:44 rangi        for major versions?
20:44 rangi        we could do that
20:44 cjh          koha 3.9.0 'awesome'
20:44 drojf        koha 3.10 'fancy fried fudge'
20:44 cjh          haha
20:45 * oleonard   heads out
20:45 drojf        lol i like how the last commit in docs is from rangi, 3 years ago @ link
20:45 oleonard     see ya #koha
20:45 libsysguy    well I guess animals are taken as well as deserts
20:45 wizzyrea     bye oleonard
20:45 * wizzyrea   appreciates that he waited
20:47 drojf        libsysguy: boring stuff like icecream sandwhich is taken. if we come up with a cool recipe per version that would work i think
20:47 libsysguy    a recibe
20:47 libsysguy    like 3.10 Koha 'BBQ Ribs'
20:48 libsysguy    on an unrelated note I kind of want to discuss changing the way Koha::Calendar works
20:48 libsysguy    anybody up to pointing out some mistakes im about to make :p
20:48 * libsysguy  thinks everyone should run away heh
20:50 rangi        write the tests first
20:50 rangi        then write the code to pass those tests
20:51 rangi        and ill be happy
20:51 libsysguy    haha
20:51 * libsysguy  is here to make rangi happy
20:51 libsysguy    if rangi ain't happy…aint nobody happy
20:51 libsysguy    ^^ with the thickest southern drawl you can imagine
20:51 rangi        but seriously starting with  a test plan, and a unit test ... means we are way less likely to cause more issues than we fix
20:52 drojf        oh we do it the other way around now? :P
20:53 libsysguy    well I was going to start with a way to represent in in the database
20:53 libsysguy    but you think a testing plan is still the way to go
20:53 rangi        yes
20:54 rangi        knowing what you want the data to do
20:54 rangi        should influence representation
20:54 rangi        not the other way round
20:54 libsysguy    ok
20:54 rangi        ie, if we know how we want it to work, we can build a data structure that enables it
20:54 libsysguy    haha
20:55 rangi        and its a pretty well contained, well defined area
20:55 cait         it's only calendars cause headaches
20:55 rangi        also, this must have been done before
20:55 libsysguy    well after the foo bar that hourly was I suppose it does need to be started with tests :p
20:55 cait         well to me at least :)
20:56 drojf        was?
20:56 drojf        is it fixed now?
20:56 libsysguy    lol drojf it will never be fixed
20:56 rangi        yeah calendars, closing and opening times, those are where the current issues occur
20:56 libsysguy    im working on closing/opening times
20:57 libsysguy    thats why im pestering atm lol
20:57 rangi        but that should be easily testable
20:57 rangi        also
20:57 rangi        http://search.cpan.org/~dichi/DBD-Mock-1.43/lib/DBD/Mock.pm
20:57 libsysguy    well that is handy
20:57 rangi        we dont even need to populate a db with holidays or opening and closing times etc
20:57 rangi        we can mock that up
20:58 rangi        and test that we still get the correct due_dates, or fines leveled
20:58 libsysguy    we don't use DBIx::Class do we
20:59 rangi        indirectly yes
20:59 libsysguy    but not in a way that I could write a Class for a DB object
20:59 libsysguy    that is what I have been doing in catalyst
21:00 libsysguy    so sometimes I get them mixed up
21:00 rangi        you could
21:00 rangi        the solr code uses moose
21:00 libsysguy    oh moose
21:01 rangi        frankly is still just prefer class::accessor
21:01 rangi        but to each their own
21:01 libsysguy    I want that to be an acrynom that comes out to the equivalent of "Every module under the sun"
21:01 rangi        but by using moose, dbix::class is in there
21:01 rangi        so its available to be used
21:02 libsysguy    ok, im not sure how far I want to chase that :p
21:02 rangi        you probably want to talk to jcamins tho, as RM in waiting
21:02 libsysguy    I've pinged him some
21:03 libsysguy    but not as in depth as I am here heh
21:03 rangi        as long as its not slow, is well documented and tested, you coudl write it in swahili
21:03 rangi        as far as i care
21:03 libsysguy    heh
21:03 libsysguy    chris_n seriously :p
21:09 rangi        [off] can't deal with that mail, someone elses turn
21:10 drojf        [off] 'With preference set to "do not use zebra",' …i'll pass
21:13 cait         [off] oh, I read " do use zebra "
21:14 drojf        cait: with that syspref you can never know
21:14 cait         it's time to kill it
21:20 jcamins      libsysguy is using DBD::Mock?
21:20 jcamins      Woohoo!
21:20 jcamins      libsysguy++
21:22 jcamins      Oh, no, but at least he's planning to write tests first. :)
21:23 libsysguy    haha yeah I am working on the tests
21:23 libsysguy    im trying to decide if I want to continue on the path of numbering off days/hours/minutes in an array :-/
21:23 jcamins      Uhhh...
21:24 jcamins      Hm.
21:24 libsysguy    I don't want an array of 60 in the db just hogging up rows
21:24 libsysguy    so the perl part of the test is easy
21:25 libsysguy    representing that data is hard
21:25 jcamins      Right.
21:25 libsysguy    so i am scouring the internet for a good calendar schema so I can have a way to model my data in perl
21:26 libsysguy    too bad I can't just interface with google calendar p
21:27 jcamins      Hehe.
21:27 libsysguy    I mean…i could…there is a module for that
21:27 libsysguy    but you need a google account
21:27 drojf        no google in my koha
21:27 jcamins      Actually, you might want to look at the data structure used by programs that interface with ICS.
21:28 libsysguy    if I could just use the data structure that Date::Manip uses I think i'd be good
21:28 libsysguy    but rangi might stroke
21:28 jcamins      Why?
21:28 wizzyrea     stroke what
21:28 libsysguy    have you ever used date manip
21:28 jcamins      wizzyrea: have one, I think. ;)
21:28 cait         good night all :)
21:28 libsysguy    looks at wizzyrea with "the look"
21:28 wizzyrea     libsysguy?
21:28 wahanui      libsysguy is Koha's hottest developer or partying with swedes on his deck
21:28 * wizzyrea   nods
21:29 libsysguy    hehe
21:29 wizzyrea     :)
21:29 wizzyrea     i love you guys.
21:29 libsysguy    we love you back wizzyrea
21:31 jcamins      Any French speakers around?
21:32 jcamins      I believe the proper definite article for the French word The is "le" but it'd be nice to have confirmation without needing to get my French dictionary from the other room.
21:33 drojf        le is male, la is female
21:33 drojf        les is plural
21:33 drojf        oh
21:33 drojf        reading skills
21:33 drojf        i lack them
21:33 drojf        nevermind
21:33 rangi        Date::Manip is big slow, and slow, also did i say slow, the author themself says dont use it
21:34 jcamins      Sorry, I should have said that irssi is currently refusing Unicode input.
21:34 libsysguy    haha yeah he is like…dude its slow
21:34 drojf        jcamins: but it's le thé
21:34 libsysguy    awesome…but slow
21:34 jcamins      Woohoo!
21:34 jcamins      Thanks.
21:35 trea         hi koha - question about the AllowHoldDateInFuture syspref - at that point to future hold requests enter into the holds queue?
21:36 trea         that should read "at what point in the future do hold requests"
21:37 rangi        as soon as the futuredate is less than now
21:37 trea         got it thx
21:37 trea         rangi++
22:01 rangi        http://fullfathomcollections.blogspot.co.nz/2012/06/keys-catalog-how-to-libx-plugin.html <-- quite cool
22:01 jcamins      [off] Guess I ought to respond to Paul.
22:06 rangi        i guess i ought to get coffee
22:06 rangi        :)
22:06 rangi        brb
22:06 * jcamins    goes to get his veggies.
22:11 rangi        jcamins++ # good reply
22:11 rangi        lucky wahanui tracks karma too
22:11 rangi        karma for jcamins
22:11 wahanui      jcamins has karma of 327
23:00 jcamins_away karma for rangi
23:00 wahanui      rangi has karma of 381
23:00 jcamins_away Hehe... much better chance of catchin up to people.
23:00 jcamins_away karma for huginn
23:00 wahanui      huginn has karma of 4
23:00 jcamins_away karma for wahanui
23:00 wahanui      wahanui has karma of 12
23:32 dcook        Morning #koha
23:32 rangi        morning dcook
23:33 dcook        By chance, rangi, do you recall what that script is to handle the de-952ing of records from 3.2?
23:34 jcamins      misc/remove_items_from_biblioitems.pl
23:34 rangi        thats it
23:34 rangi        unless you are using package
23:34 rangi        s
23:34 dcook        Excellent. Merci, beaucoup
23:34 dcook        Nope. No packages
23:36 dcook        Whoa, comma splice...
23:36 * dcook      shudders