Time  Nick           Message
02:28 Waylon         hiya all, and happy bday nengard.. who isn't even here.
02:29 Waylon         okay, on a siege test of my two server-in-vms setup, 10 concurrent users, 5 second delay, only 70% of the searches get a response. is this because it is on vms?
02:30 jcamins_away   Waylon: probably. Probably something to do with Apache settings.
02:31 jcamins_away   Let me try that again.
02:31 jcamins_away   Probably not the fact that they are VMs.
02:31 jcamins_away   Probably Apache tuning.
02:31 * jcamins_away leaves again.
02:32 Waylon         have got two physical servers... two vm's each server. on each, there is the actual live server, and a dev or upgrade test server. If we go the bare bone approach, we'll need another server to host the vms for the dev stuff.
02:33 jcamins_away   Waylon: if you give the servers twice as much resources, they'll work twice as fast, but, as I said, I think the problem is probably in your Apache settings.
02:33 jcamins_away   There's a page on tuning Koha somewhere on the wiki.
02:33 Waylon         are you able to take a look, jcamins_away?
02:34 jcamins_away   Not at the moment, sorry.
02:35 Waylon         we're also running koha 2.0.0pre1
02:35 jcamins_away   Waylon: you should be using Koha 3.6 or 3.8.
02:35 Waylon         yeah.. ours has been heavily modded without git history
02:35 jcamins_away   You won't be able to get any support on Koha 2.x, and about the only thing anyone is likely to remember how to do with 3.0 is upgrade.
02:36 Waylon         huge speed increase in search with the 3.x branches?
02:37 rangi          with 3.8 you can run the opac under plack, which is a massive speed increase
02:37 rangi          but 3.6 will perform a lot faster the 2.0 searching too, on any database of a decent size
02:37 rangi          say 30k records upwards
02:38 Waylon         yeah i think we have more than 30k.
02:38 Waylon         zebra alone needs more than 2GB registry.
02:38 jcamins_away   You're going to have to do it eventually... pull down a git clone, locate where you forked, and start picking up the pieces.
02:38 jcamins_away   No point in doing anything else with your servers until you do that.
02:38 jcamins_away   Probably.
02:38 jcamins_away   But *no one* is going to be able to help you with what you have now.
02:38 jcamins_away   (even if they aren't more-or-less not here)
02:39 rangi          wait, you are running zebra with 2.0???
02:39 Waylon         oo wait.
02:39 * Waylon       just woke up, okay..
02:39 Waylon         Think i have 3.0.0pre1
02:40 Waylon         marcxml and zebra.. yeha.
02:40 jcamins_away   There's no such thing... I checked 'cause I was curious. Maybe a beta?
02:40 jcamins_away   Or RC?
02:40 jcamins_away   There is, in fact, a version 2.0.0pre1, though.
02:40 jcamins_away   Okay, here's what you need to do:
02:40 jcamins_away   1. Figure out what version of Koha your fork was based on.
02:41 jcamins_away   2. Find the point in git where you branched off.
02:41 jcamins_away   3. Split your changes into self-contained commits.
02:41 jcamins_away   4. Upgrade to something modern, bringing along those changes you can't live without.
02:42 Waylon         our $VERSION = "3.00.00.094";
02:43 Waylon         but ive tried to figure out the git version... and found patches that came from higher versions.. but patches in between were not brought in.
02:43 jcamins_away   That's... unfortunate.
02:43 Waylon         Before i came along.. the developer cherrypicked patches.
02:43 jcamins_away   Unfortunately, there's no way around it.
02:43 Waylon         yup
02:43 Waylon         means a total redo, and reimplement.
02:44 jcamins_away   You could conceivably hire a vendor to work with you on it, but I can tell you it wouldn't be cheap, and I'm not sure which vendor would be willing.
02:44 Waylon         hah. im the coder for it. sadly, the only coder.
02:45 jcamins_away   Well, you have your work cut out if you're going to be doing it all yourself.
02:45 Waylon         3.6 has speed advantage over 3.0?
02:46 jcamins_away   I'd imagine.
02:46 jcamins_away   It has one even more important advantage, though: people can talk to you about it and say something other than "ouch, that sucks... good luck."
02:49 Waylon         yeah
02:49 Waylon         okay, well.. thanks jcamins_away
02:49 jcamins_away   Good luck.
02:49 Waylon         yeh.
02:49 Waylon         Think i need it.
02:49 jcamins_away   You certainly do.
02:50 Waylon         how does one turn off logging for one line of chat?
02:50 jcamins_away   [off]
02:50 myra           hi!
02:50 rangi          hi myra
02:50 myra           can i inquire here?
02:51 rangi          you just did
02:51 jcamins_away   @quote get 145
02:51 huginn         jcamins_away: Quote #145: "Don't ask to ask, just ask!" (added by wizzyrea at 02:37 PM, July 07, 2011)
02:51 myra           hahaha!
02:51 myra           well, thanks rangi
02:51 myra           is the biblionumber the same as call number?
02:51 rangi          no
02:51 Waylon         [off] God i wish i never took this job. So keen on getting paid for koha work, that i took the first job that would have me... with no idea of the mess they were in.
02:52 myra           ok.  what is the purpose of the biblionumber?
02:52 rangi          the biblionumber is Koha's internal id number, its used by Koha, and shouldnt be used by humans for anything
02:52 Waylon         [off] Admittedly, it pays okay.
02:52 myra           is it just like a reference number for each record entered in the database?
02:52 rangi          you might have 3 items with the same callnumber
02:52 rangi          yes
02:52 rangi          its a unique identifier
02:52 rangi          not for human usage
02:52 jcamins_away   [off] Well, that's something, and maybe you'll be able to find another one.
02:53 myra           ok.
02:53 myra           so, what is the format of the biblionumber?
02:53 rangi          whatever you do, do not ever delete it from the frameworks
02:53 Waylon         hmm.... in fact rangi, to avoid spydering, the company i work for is considering encrypting their biblionumbers.
02:53 rangi          lol thats the silliest thing ive heard today
02:53 jcamins_away   Waylon: are you kidding?
02:53 myra           ok
02:54 Waylon         on webside that is.
02:54 Waylon         dbase side, would be the same.
02:54 jcamins_away   Waylon: I am totally perplexed by this. That's absolutely nuts.
02:54 rangi          sounds like a recipe for madness, and making it even slower, and wouldnt work
02:54 rangi          if they were running 3.4 or later, opacpublic would do that for them
02:54 jcamins_away   rangi: but, you could encrypt the bib numbers!
02:54 Waylon         okay, how would they stop mass sequential downloads?
02:55 jcamins_away   Using asymetrical keys.
02:55 rangi          make it not public
02:55 jcamins_away   Waylon: either don't let people who aren't allowed access onto the system, or give up.
02:55 jcamins_away   You can't have your cake and eat it too.
02:55 Waylon         its not public. its only accesable to universities and their students.
02:55 jcamins_away   Right, there's no way around this.
02:55 rangi          so you dont want the students to spider it?
02:56 * jcamins_away thinks he may have heard of some software written by some students once.
02:57 jcamins_away   It had this really catchy name...
02:57 jcamins_away   Oh yeah, Linux.
02:57 rangi          hehe
02:58 Waylon         yes rangi... can't trust students.. might mass download and then just offer the pdfs for download on the net.
02:58 jcamins_away   Waylon: then they need to find an alternative to Koha that provides a proprietary reader.
02:58 jcamins_away   And get used to the idea that if any students cared, they'd get around it.
02:59 * jcamins_away would never support inclusion of a proprietary reader into Koha, for the record.
02:59 Waylon         so the idea of encrypting the biblionumbers before they go out, and then on receving a download/details request, decrypting the param, is a bad idea?
02:59 jcamins_away   Monumentally bad.
02:59 jcamins_away   Kind of like Napoleon's plan to take a hike in Russia.
03:01 Waylon         why, how long does it take to encrypt one number?
03:01 jcamins_away   A) who cares?
03:01 jcamins_away   B) see A
03:02 Waylon         Okay, so... why would it be bad?
03:02 jcamins_away   C) not an insignificant amount of time
03:02 jcamins_away   If something goes wrong, you are not going to be able to debug.
03:02 jcamins_away   (for example)
03:03 jcamins_away   If you are using actual encryption, it's expensive.
03:03 rangi          you're punishing everyone, to stop a few, better look at the logs, find out who is doing it, discipline them
03:03 jcamins_away   If you are using a hash, it's easy to figure out.
03:03 rangi          and any algorithm you can decrypt
03:03 rangi          in a reasonable time
03:03 jcamins_away   You would have to rewrite every single page.
03:03 rangi          someone else can
03:04 jcamins_away   Didn't I just say that?
03:04 rangi          if you amke it one time use, then no persistent urls
03:04 rangi          yep, im just reinforcing how mad it is :)
03:04 jcamins_away   Okay, just checking.
03:06 Waylon         what about a new column, random uuid+encryption per biblio, and thats the param that goes in and out, no encryption/decryption done, and intranet can still do everything by biblionumbers?
03:08 jcamins_away   If you really wanted, that'd be less of a bad idea (but forget the encryption), but still a very bad idea.
03:11 jcamins_away   Also, this would in no way prevent anyone from downloading all the records.
03:11 jcamins_away   A person just has to do a search that returns the entire database and use a screen scraper.
03:12 rangi          or wget -r from the search
03:12 Waylon         right. a search that returns the entire db would time out though?
03:12 rangi          no
03:12 jcamins_away   Of course not.
03:12 jcamins_away   What use would a search engine be if it couldn't return results?
03:14 Waylon         well.. for a page of results, yeah but for the entire 2GB of results?
03:14 rangi          it only returns a page at a time
03:14 * Waylon       nods.
03:14 Waylon         So would take some time.
03:14 rangi          so im failing to see your point the wget follows the next link too
03:14 cjh            even if they couldnt view the database in one go, they could script it to view it in however many chunks they want..
03:14 Waylon         oo..
03:15 jcamins_away   Scraping a database is going to take a while no matter what.
03:15 Waylon         right.
03:15 jcamins_away   'Cause you're downloading a heck of a lot of data.
03:20 rangi          and people do it :)
03:20 rangi          http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon12_Schedule#This_is_an_interesting_metadata_source._Can_I_import_it_into_Koha.3F_.2830_min.29
03:20 jcamins_away   That was *so cool*.
03:20 jcamins_away   And I wasn't even there.
03:20 rangi          :)
03:21 Waylon         well.. ive submitted my response to the performance issue.... oh another thing i forgot to mention, the sysadmin thinks it could be disk performance because of vms.... however, i use physical partitions/LVM volumes in XCP. not images or whatever SR system XCP natively has.
03:21 Waylon         and zebra is on a seperate physical hdd.
03:21 rangi          have you watched iotop
03:21 jcamins_away   You could try benchmarking.
03:21 rangi          and top
03:22 rangi          when you try to load test
03:22 rangi          dollars to donuts its apache using all the ram and swapping
03:22 * Waylon       nods. "need to give apache more ram eh?
03:23 rangi          top will tell you, but thats my random guess
03:23 jcamins_away   No bet.
03:24 Waylon         how does one get the total (all processes) amount of ram, apache is using ?
03:25 Waylon         sieging now.
03:26 Waylon         everythjing seems.... .. well. did seem fine until a few seconds ago.
03:26 Waylon         now getting some time outs.
03:27 Waylon         lifted siege.. .seeing if anytthing is in logs.
03:30 * jcamins_away calls it a night, his sudden burst of desire to have a spotless kitchen having passed.
03:30 Waylon         k. night jcamins_away
03:31 Waylon         no apparent errors in the koha-opac-error log
03:44 Waylon         interesting... server1 has lots of used swap.. server 2 has basically none used.
03:49 Waylon         ah.. server2 just had lots of zebrasrv processes in iotop hitting 99% cpu for a bit... soon after they diseappeaered... siege said timeout.
04:00 Waylon         hmm... how do i decrease the amount of io zebra needs to do?
04:21 Waylon         hmmmmm... could plack work with koha 3.0?
04:27 Oak            kia ora #koha
04:45 Waylon         hello oak
04:46 Oak            hello Waylon :)
04:46 Oak            Guten Morgen cait
04:46 cait           hi Oak :)
04:46 Oak            :)
05:19 mveron         Good morning #koha
05:21 cait           hi mveron :)
05:21 mveron         hi cait :-)
05:33 rangi          http://i.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/7175364/Library-updates-to-global-system
05:37 rangi          wb cait
05:37 cait           thx rangi
05:47 dcook          Quick question for everyone. How do people keep on top of new patches? I saw Nicole's "Bug 8321 - fix OPACShowBarcode description" and was utterly confused until I saw Amit's "Bug 6774 - Display barcode on OPAC detail page". Yet, when I went to apply that patch, it seemed that I was still behind, so I kept getting conflicts.
05:47 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8321 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nengard, Needs Signoff , fix OPACShowBarcode description
05:47 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6774 enhancement, P3, ---, amit.gupta, Pushed to Master , Display barcode on OPAC detail page
05:48 cait           dcook: what are you trying to do?
05:50 dcook          I installed 3.8.0 back in May, and I've been working on cutting over all our local enhancements from 3.2.x (we're quite behind). One of our enhancements was to show the barcode in opac-detail.pl, but when I saw that was unnecessary, I wanted to go with the community version.
05:50 cait           dcook: the feature is very new
05:51 cait           so it will be in 3.10 probably, maybe in one of the other versions if rmaint decides to port it back, but as it's a new feature, that's not so likely
05:52 cait           I think I would update to the latest stable version and then wait
05:52 cait           customizations are always trouble
05:52 dcook          Agreed, but we do quite a few of them anyway :P
05:53 cait           if you can't wait you should be using git for your changes
05:53 dcook          Actually, I'm hoping to feed a great many back into the community so as to avoid this exercise in the future
05:53 cait           and you can try to port the solution, but be careful with the database update
05:53 dcook          All our new enhancements I commit to the git
05:53 cait           giving back is the best way doing it :)
05:53 dcook          It is a philosophy I endorse whole-heartedly :)
05:54 dcook          Unfortunately, in the past, we didn't have the time so there is this enormous backlog
05:54 dcook          Definitely more than a little overwhelming :S
05:54 cait           consider filing bug reports on bugzilla :) - that way other people can comment and we can avoid doubled up work
05:55 dcook          That's what I've been doing lately with new bugs I come across that I don't have the time to fix. Are you saying that I should be registering each of my enhancements on bugzilla?
05:55 cait           I think it's a good idea yes :)
05:56 cait           at least the bigger ones
05:56 cait           and if you are now making them work with a current version, might be worth to submit patches for master in the same step
05:56 cait           while you still know what you are doing and how it works - and it will help getting them in the next version
05:56 cait           so your next update will be way more painless
05:57 dcook          That is the goal :)
05:57 cait           :)
05:57 cait           for the barcode you have different options
05:57 cait           it might be easier to put a quick fix in and note somewhere it will work with 3.10
05:57 cait           with the bug number
05:58 dcook          Mmm, good idea. The fix is already in, so it would probably be a good idea to put that in our local register
05:59 dcook          I think we have ~300 changes, so I'm tearing at my hair a bit here :p
05:59 cait           well... heh
05:59 dcook          I'm really reluctant to cut across that many, when I much rather stay current with the community
05:59 cait           yeah, 300 is a lot
05:59 cait           are those bigger features or more changes to display?
05:59 dcook          Good question
06:00 cait           for changes to the templates jquery can do lots of things - so you don't need to change the files
06:00 dcook          I came here 6 months ago, but the company has been using Koha for the past 5 years
06:00 cait           jquery library?
06:00 wahanui        i think jquery library is found at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/JQuery_Library
06:00 cait           aah
06:00 cait           so it's not even changes you made
06:00 * cait         sends coookies
06:00 dcook          Exactly
06:00 dcook          ty ^_^
06:01 * dcook        cries a little inside
06:01 cait           sounds like you will need them :)
06:01 dcook          I think so!
06:02 cait           koha 3.8 is really different to 3.2.x - lots of new features and improvements
06:02 dcook          Oh...the jQuery library is looking interesting
06:02 cait           might be that not all of your changes are still needed
06:02 dcook          That's what I'm hoping, but since they're not all my changes, it's hard to say sometimes :/
06:03 dcook          Fortunately, the writer is still here at the company. He's just busy with other projects
06:03 cait           ah that's good then :)
06:03 cait           if he still remembers :)
06:03 cait           you can always come back here - still a bit silent now
06:03 cait           but more people around later today
06:04 cait           where are you from?
06:04 dcook          I'm in Sydney, Australia, so I only have about an hour left in the work day
06:04 dcook          I'll be telecommuting from Vancouver, Canada later in the year though for a few months
06:05 cait           ah
06:05 cait           I am in Germany - so my work day is just about to begin
06:06 dcook          Always a handy part of open source :)
06:07 cait           yeah, #koha is pretty much 24 hours :)
06:07 cait           but weekends are a bit quiet
06:08 dcook          I'm glad to hear that people take breaks ;)
06:08 dcook          How common are customizations with your instance of Koha?
06:09 cait           consider updating to 3.8.3 - lots of bug fixes in there
06:09 cait           and 3.8.4 will be good too
06:09 cait           we never did many
06:09 dcook          Didn't 3.8.2 just come out?
06:09 cait           we learned the lesson with another project
06:09 cait           oh, you are right
06:09 dcook          Ahhh 3.8.2 for stable...
06:09 cait           confusing my numbers
06:10 cait           we are running Koha without customizations now :)
06:11 cait           there are some changes to indexing still, because that was not a solution for everyone. But I hope to get rid of that too with 3.10 and dom indexing :)
06:11 cait           Koha is moving so fast, it's fun to work with.
06:18 dcook          It really is. I was very excited when 3.8 came out
06:18 dcook          We also do DSpace, and we try to limit our customizations to that as much as possible. I'm thinking that might be a good idea for Koha as well
06:19 dcook          Quick question
06:19 dcook          How do you update with the new releases. Surely, you don't do a complete re-install
06:19 cait           no we don't
06:19 cait           it depends a bit on the kind of installation you did in the first place
06:19 cait           there are standard installations, dev installations with git, packages...
06:21 dcook          I think that we did the standard installation
06:21 dcook          Is the dev install the one where it runs Koha from your git clone?
06:22 cait           it can
06:22 cait           but it's also a different file structure
06:22 cait           you can do a dev installation without git - but not sure if that makes much sense
06:22 cait           I think with your customizations a dev installation with git would make sense
06:23 cait           standard is not so practical for that
06:27 cait           with standard you normally download the tarball, unpack it, run Makefile with the right parameters (it's been a while since I did that)
06:28 cait           with git you can checkout the new version and run Makefile so it updated indexing configuration
06:28 cait           it really works well
06:29 cait           the database update will kick in automatically whenever your version in the database is different from the version in kohaversion.pl
06:29 cait           ok, time to get to work
06:29 cait           bye dcook
06:29 dcook          bye cait. Thanks for your help!
06:42 reiveune       hello
06:42 wahanui        what's up, reiveune
06:47 ropuch         Morning #koha
07:03 matts          hi #koha !
07:14 gaetan_B       hello :)
07:25 kf             hi #koha
07:27 francharb      good morning
07:27 kf             hi francharb
07:28 rangi          back
08:05 * magnuse      cheers for Waimate!
08:08 * kf           cheers too
08:18 * magnuse      cheers for Stuff too, for bringing news about libraries changing their ils ;-)
08:21 kf             mveron++ :)
08:21 * kf           is still catching up on mail from being away for 3 days...
08:21 mveron         kf:Thanks.  What for ?  :-)
08:25 kf             general awesomeness? :)
08:25 kf             and lots of sign offs!
08:25 mveron         :-)
08:27 kf             good morning eythian :)
08:27 eythian        howdy
08:27 wahanui        hola, eythian
08:59 magnuse        kia ora eythian
08:59 eythian        hello
08:59 wahanui        what's up, eythian
09:10 sandeepbhavsar Dear all
09:10 sandeepbhavsar kindly guide me for this error - Availability - No items Available
09:11 sandeepbhavsar i just imported the data and even getting the search through OPAC
09:11 sandeepbhavsar but all records shows that Availability - No items Available
09:11 eythian        are there items?
09:12 sandeepbhavsar for every record koha shows 7 holdings
09:12 sandeepbhavsar i have done the indexing with nozebra.pl
09:13 sandeepbhavsar is there any mistake in indexing
09:13 eythian        Using nozebra is strongly not recommended.
09:13 eythian        Basically, it doesn't really work.
09:14 sandeepbhavsar ok then what should i do, because i really dont have any knowledge of zebra
09:14 sandeepbhavsar http://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2011-December/031485.html
09:14 sandeepbhavsar same error is face earlier also
09:15 eythian        I would recommend going through the documentation about setting up zebra
09:15 eythian        Because it's currently really the only way to do searching.
09:15 sandeepbhavsar are u sure that this has happened only because nozebra is used
09:16 eythian        No.
09:16 kf             how did you import the items?
09:16 kf             it should be 1 952 field for each item
09:16 sandeepbhavsar yes i have that field
09:16 kf             and 952 should at least have a b and y I think
09:17 eythian        that might well be part of it too.
09:19 sandeepbhavsar I have
09:19 sandeepbhavsar =952  \\$aACC
09:19 sandeepbhavsar =952  \\$bACC
09:19 sandeepbhavsar =952  \\$g0.00
09:19 sandeepbhavsar =952  \\$oB1
09:19 sandeepbhavsar =952  \\$pB1
09:19 kf             es
09:19 sandeepbhavsar =952  \\$v0.00
09:19 kf             this should be one field
09:19 sandeepbhavsar =952  \\$yB
09:19 eythian        that will explain why you have 7 of them
09:19 kf             =952 \\$a...$b...$...
09:20 kf             also make sure that ABB and B are valid codes for brnaches and itemtypes in your configuration
09:21 sandeepbhavsar yes B is for itemtype book
09:21 kf             ok :) it's only something that can go wrong - so I was pointing it out
09:21 kf             I think if you combine the fields into one your results should look a lot better
09:21 eythian        yep
09:21 eythian        but also, using nozebra is a bad idea
09:21 eythian        the sooner we remove that the better
09:22 eythian        wahanui: nozebra
09:22 wahanui        nozebra is much slower
09:22 kf             wahanui: forget nozebra
09:22 wahanui        kf: I forgot nozebra
09:22 rangi          and doesnt understand items
09:22 kf             nozebra is deprecated and should not be used
09:22 kf             nozebra
09:22 kf             nozebra?
09:22 wahanui        i heard nozebra was deprecated and should not be used
09:22 rangi          the syspref is only there, so people can switch to zebra
09:22 sandeepbhavsar kindly guide how can i have one field
09:22 kf             rangi: removing the cronjob might be also a good idea
09:22 rangi          when the upgrade, it can die for 3.10 i reckon
09:22 rangi          kf: it doesnt use the cronjob
09:23 eythian        sandeepbhavsar: when you convert your data, you must do it differently
09:23 kf             i meant the script sandeepbhavsar was using
09:23 rangi          nozebra indexes when you make a change
09:23 kf             nozebra.pl
09:23 eythian        sandeepbhavsar: but we don't know how you're doing that, so you'll have to explain more.
09:23 rangi          yes, thats not needed
09:24 rangi          thats like a flush and rebuild with zebra
09:24 rangi          but killing the syspref so that you cant use it would be good
09:24 eythian        the patch could delete the setting to, so that it fell back to default.
09:24 rangi          yep
09:24 rangi          needs to warn
09:24 eythian        yeah
09:25 rangi          but yeah it should die, specially with the new bug 8233
09:25 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8233 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , New search engine layer - introduce solr without breaking anything else
09:25 eythian        yes
09:25 rangi          there's no way it will ever work with that
09:25 kf             I think there is also a patch from jared soemwhere removing some of the nozebra code
09:25 wahanui        okay, kf.
09:25 kf             forget I think there is
09:25 kf             I think there is <reply>
09:26 kf             hm
09:26 eythian        kf: it's funnier if you stop deprogramming wahanui
09:27 kf             :P
09:28 kf             I only do it if it makes no sense and is not very funny
09:28 kf             see, he still does your jokes:
09:28 kf             germs?
09:28 wahanui        Germs originated in Germany, before rapidly spreading throughout the rest of the world.
09:28 eythian        kf: but you're from Germany, how could we possibly trust your sense of humour? ;)
09:28 kf             lol
09:32 kf             ... wait until you get here!
09:32 kf             ;)
09:47 kf             hi paul_p :)
09:47 magnuse        bonjour paul_p
09:52 magnuse        ooh, new issue of code4lib journal! http://journal.code4lib.org/issues/issue17
10:04 paul_p         good morning kf & magnuse
10:05 * paul_p       is back from meeting with accountant. Phone call to banker,... not what I prefer in my job ;-)
10:11 * magnuse      understands paul_p completely
10:14 Waylon         hmm... how do i decrease the amount of io zebra needs to do? or increase the performance of zebra?
10:25 eythian        if zebra IO is a problem for you, it might be time to upgrade that 386 ;)
10:25 eythian        (I've never seen it IO bound really)
10:25 eythian        well, for more than a short time when doing a complete rebuild
10:37 kf             paul_p: I think fridolyn was at the first hackfest in marseille? :)
10:50 kf             Happy Birthday nengard :)
10:50 kf             or was it yesterday?
10:50 nengard        :) thank you
10:50 nengard        it's today
10:58 kf             Herzlichen Glückwunsch :)
10:59 kf             so shouldn't you be doing something fun with bengard?
11:03 magnuse        gratulerer med dagen nengard!
11:04 nengard        Tusen takk
11:04 magnuse        yay!
11:04 nengard        :)
11:04 nengard        hehe
11:04 nengard        kf we both have to wrok
11:04 nengard        work
11:04 kf             oh :(
11:04 nengard        and he left this morning without wishing me a happy bday ? so i'm not sure he realizes the date
11:04 nengard        :(
11:04 kf             maybe friday?
11:04 kf             or there will be a surprise?
11:05 nengard        this past saturday we had a bunch of friends and family over
11:24 paul_p         kf yep, fridolyn was at the 1st hackfest in Marseille
11:25 kf             cool :)
11:27 drojf1         hello #koha
11:27 kf             hi drojf
11:27 drojf          and happy birthday nengard
11:28 nengard        thanks
11:29 drojf          hey kf. how is the multi-screen life? :)
11:29 kf             heh it's working now
11:29 kf             but laptop at home
11:29 kf             now back at work :)
11:34 drojf          woot! just threw mustard and mango-habanero-sauce all over myself
11:42 nengard        in the aqorders table ? where is the vendor or booksellerid?
11:42 nengard        oh! figured it out - it's in aqbasket
11:42 nengard        okay
11:53 nengard        does anyone know why you can't make an attribute repeatable after it's saved? Would me changing it at the DB level break anything?
11:53 magnuse        drojf: that seems to be an over-reaction to kf being at work...
11:53 drojf          :D
11:53 nengard        hehe
11:55 kf             nengard: not sure really
11:55 kf             maybe try on a test db?
11:56 nengard        yeah - was gonna do that
12:02 jcamins        o/
12:03 drojf          hi jcamins
12:05 jcamins        Good morning.
12:10 kf             hi jcamins :)
12:31 tcohen         hi #koha!
12:31 drojf          hi tcohen
12:31 magnuse        hiya tcohen
12:31 tcohen         happy birthday nengard!
12:31 nengard        :) thanks
12:32 tcohen         big party coming?
12:37 drojf          last IRC meeting ended at 18:45:44 UTC. so i guess we close bidding for kohacon 2013 today at the same time?
12:38 drojf          nengard: will you be doing the limesurvey magic?
12:39 nengard        yup
12:39 nengard        tcohen - had that this past saturday
12:42 tcohen         nengard :-D
12:50 ttuc           hi, could anyone tell me how to get borrowers.db for my offline circulation module
12:52 jcamins        You have to generate it. I think the instructions may be in the manual, though I'm not certain.
12:57 ttuc           i have been able to get the csv version of the table but this .db is what am not sure.
12:57 jcamins        I don't know. I don't use it, sorry.
12:58 jcamins        Maybe misc/cronjobs/create_koc.pl?
12:59 ttuc           i have been able to get the csv version of the table but this .db is what am not sure.
13:00 jcamins        I've never heard of borrowers.csv, and I still have never user offline circulation.
13:02 kf             packages
13:02 wahanui        somebody said packages was at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian
13:02 jcamins        ... someone else might know something about offline circulation.
13:14 mib_ebk9t3     anone aware of how to get borrowers.db for offline circulation?
13:15 kf             mib_ebk9t3: maybe ask on the mailing list
13:15 kf             mib_ebk9t3: and also give your version and which offline circ you are using (I think the applicaton from kyle hall?)
13:17 mib_ebk9t3     yes
13:17 jcamins        I just Googled "borrowers.db koha" and got the following result: http://perldoc.koha-community.org/misc/cronjobs/create_koc_db.html
13:20 mib_ebk9t3     let me check.
13:21 jcamins        I would imagine that is probably accurate, though I work mostly with reference-only libraries.
13:22 schuster       Linked data authority lookup noted in the newsletter whoot!
13:23 jcamins        schuster: the VIAF thing? Yeah, that's pretty amazing.
13:23 schuster       During a discussion about linked data it was discussed that if the Library community is interested in something generally the open source community adopts it the Library groups find it interesting and then demand the proprietary systems include it.
13:23 schuster       How true that is...  jcamins - VIAF YES!
13:25 jcamins        schuster: I guess the discussants elided the issue that us open source developers don't actually work for free, and therefore libraries will need to make their interest financially relevant?
13:33 schuster       I think the thought there is Librarians are Innovative and as we work with our Developers in the Open source arena we get things WE want and make it happen rather than waiting for someone else to do it.
13:33 schuster       jcamins - Or for a proprietary vendor to come up with the idea... Oh really come on...
13:34 jcamins        schuster: I'm all for that. This is how it _should_ work.
13:34 jcamins        But too many people think open source = magical little gnomes will make the program do whatever they want for free.
13:34 schuster       jcamins - Yep that's why I'm here...
13:35 schuster       jcamins - it's a mind shift...  it took me about 2 months to figure out how it all really worked.  We went with a support company initially and what "support" means is very different in open source vs proprietary
13:35 jcamins        For the record, I would like some magical little gnomes that work for free. :)
13:36 schuster       The benefit though was all the money we saved annually we could still carve a portion of that into development and get what we wanted and still save $60,000 a year.
13:36 schuster       jcamins - I need some gnomes that ...  Clean house, mow yard, do laundry, and if they could code that would be a bonus!  HA HA HA....
13:37 jcamins        Ooh, house cleaning gnomes would be excellent.
13:44 jcamins        Has anyone noticed problems with acqui/basketgroup.pl recently?
13:46 jcamins        Never mind.
13:58 schuster       jcamins - bug 7345  stripping local use fields out of marc export.  Does that only work in the opac or does that work with the export utility as well in tools?
13:58 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7345 enhancement, P3, ---, jcamins, RESOLVED FIXED, Should be possible to export MARC records without private fields
14:00 jcamins        It does not impact the export tool.
14:06 * jcamins      wonders what ILS is used by these people who are acting shocked at the idea of an OPAC without working subject browsing.
14:06 jcamins        Off the top of my head, I cannot think of a single ILS, proprietary or otherwise, that provides decent browsing capabilities.
14:08 mib_ebk9t3     i have seen this script: create_koc_db.pl but where am i supposed to run it? my koha is running on ubuntu
14:08 jcamins        Did you read the perldoc I sent you?
14:08 jcamins        It looks like you are supposed to run it from cron.
14:09 jcamins        At that point, you will need to download the borrowers.db file to the computer where you are doing offline circulation.
14:09 jcamins        Koha will not set that up for you automatically for security reasons.
14:09 jcamins        Answer: they use some sort of horrifying custom (I think) ILS written in Visual Studio which hardly functions at all.
14:23 datadoctor     Bon anniversaire!
14:29 jcamins        Ouch!
14:29 jcamins        [off] "We are looking to change our OPAC from open source to EOS"
14:31 nengard        what??
14:31 jcamins        nengard: you'll get the mail in about five minutes. You're on ACAT too. :)
14:31 jcamins        Wait, no, this isn't ACAT.
14:31 nengard        autocat
14:31 nengard        hehe
14:31 jcamins        So, you won't get the mail.
14:32 nengard        what's acat?
14:32 jcamins        Autocat.
14:32 jcamins        But it isn't on autocat.
14:32 nengard        i'm so confused right now
14:32 jcamins        The message I just quoted is from a mailing list you are not on.
14:33 jcamins        However, it was in the middle of a dozen autocat messages, so I got confused, and told you you'd receive the message.
14:33 jcamins        You probably won't because it's a local NYC list.
14:35 jcamins        So you can ignore everything after the "Ouch" and quote. :)
14:37 jcamins        [off] Libwebcats has told me which "open source" ILS they are using.
14:42 mib_ebk9t3     i have added the create_koc_db.pl script. where does koha save the borrowers.db
15:02 huginn         New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 7304 followup DBRev number <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=e73058e469fc8a0dcc3babc81218703882d382fa> / Bug 7304: More permissions for budgets <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=203757e353cbbb2add934523fdbd7113c6180207> / Bug 7905: Follow up - Multi-line subscription notes <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=51cdcd91f744ff95b442bd
15:05 jenkins_koha   Starting build #768 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:08 reiveune       bye
15:19 * mveron       ...has to go, good evening to everybody!
15:19 mveron         quit
15:33 vfernandes     hi there.... guys where is the merge_authorities.pl script?
15:35 vfernandes     to use dontmerge - authorities system preference
15:36 * kf           tries summoning jcamins
15:36 jcamins        Poof!
15:36 kf             have you checked the misc directory and its subdirectories?
15:36 kf             oh cool :) it worked!
15:36 vfernandes     yes ite sould be on bin/cronjobs but nothing
15:37 jcamins        misc/migration_tools/merge_authority.pl
15:37 vfernandes     merge_authorities.pl sould be different then merge_authority.pl
15:37 jcamins        I should warn you I've never used it, though.
15:37 jcamins        Hm.
15:37 jcamins        You're right.
15:38 * jcamins      did a find for "merge*"
15:38 vfernandes     merge_authorities.pl should update records that uses one authority which was updated
15:39 vfernandes     dontmerge - do/don't automatically update attached biblios when changing an authority record. If this is off, please ask your administrator to enable the merge_authorities.pl cronjob.
15:39 jcamins        The script does not exist.
15:39 jcamins        I'd file a bug.
15:39 jcamins        It must've been deleted.
15:41 vfernandes     tell me something
15:41 vfernandes     when you update a authority the linked records are updated?
15:41 jcamins        It should be if you have dontmerge set properly.
15:42 jcamins        However, I don't edit authorities.
15:42 jcamins        I replace them.
15:42 vfernandes     but dontmerge needs the script :/
15:42 jcamins        clrh++
15:43 jcamins        vfernandes: no, if you set it the other way, you don't need a script.
15:43 jcamins        That's the entire point of dontmerge.
15:44 vfernandes     so if don't merge is set to "don't" updating a authority updates the record?
15:44 vfernandes     i'm confusing....
15:45 vfernandes     only sh*t.... i'm so dumb sometimes
15:45 vfernandes     lol
15:45 kf             clrh++
15:45 vfernandes     the script is only needed when it is off = don't
15:45 jcamins        Right. Or on. I always get the two confused because "dontmerge" is such a bad name for a syspref. ;)
15:46 vfernandes     you bet... :D
15:46 kf             like nozebra
15:48 jcamins        You know what I need?
15:48 jcamins        I need a test that creates a 3.0.0 database, runs updatedatabase on it, then compares the result to a database created by kohastructure.sql.
15:48 vfernandes     thanks jcamins and kf for the help... sometimes it's better stop a little and read the description well :D
15:49 jcamins        :)
15:49 jcamins        That one is a staggeringly confusing syspref.
15:49 vfernandes     sure is...
15:50 kf             yep it is
15:52 eythian        jcamins: that would be relatively easy to do
15:53 jcamins        eythian: I keep on thinking that.
15:53 jcamins        Then I sit down to try and realize that I can't figure it out at all.
15:53 * jcamins      nominates eythian to do it. :)
15:54 eythian        install fresh 3.8, dump the schema, install 3.0, run koha-update-schema, dump the schema, diff
15:54 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_master build #768: UNSTABLE in 49 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/768/
15:54 jenkins_koha   * jonathan.druart: Bug 5345: DataTables integration in acquisition module [5]
15:54 jenkins_koha   * adrien.saurat: Bug 7905: display serial notes on several lines
15:54 jenkins_koha   * Katrin.Fischer.83: Bug 7905: Follow up - Multi-line subscription notes
15:54 jenkins_koha   * julian.maurice: Bug 7304: More permissions for budgets
15:54 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5345 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , DataTables in Koha
15:54 jenkins_koha   * paul.poulain: Bug 7304 followup DBRev number
15:54 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7905 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, Pushed to Master , Multi-line notes are displayed on one line in Staff Serials page
15:54 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7304 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Pushed to Master , Working on funds ergonomic display and funds management by multi librarians
15:54 eythian        just copy-paste what I wrote into a terminal, it'll be fine :D
15:59 jcamins        eythian: the problem is that doesn't work, because the names of foreign keys and indexes (and their order) may not be identical.
16:00 eythian        then write something that parses the SQL and normalises things :)
16:00 jcamins        eythian: right, see, that's the point where I realize I don't quite get it.
16:02 jcamins        There's mysqldiff, but I find it somewhat perplexing.
16:05 kf             yay
16:05 * kf           got to the web installer in her new koha sandbox :)
16:06 jcamins        :)
16:07 kf             some day I will correct the typo on the button
16:07 jcamins        What typo on what button?
16:07 kf             'import' instead of 'Import'
16:07 * eythian      attempts to relearn how debian's perl team does everything after they've gone and changed it all since I last did stuff.
16:07 eythian        Want to get some of the koha deps into debian before freeze.
16:08 kf             eythian++ :)
16:08 jcamins        eythian++
16:09 kf             ok, now zebra :)
16:11 * jcamins      runs the regression test against the import batch functionality.
16:12 kf             :)
16:12 kf             jcamins++
16:13 jcamins        And, good news! Bib import still works fine.
16:13 jcamins        :D
16:13 jcamins        Now I just need to add a test plan for the user interface.
16:14 jcamins        I don't suppose my test plan can be "import an authority"?
16:14 eythian        jcamins: cucumber or something?
16:14 jcamins        eythian: huh?
16:16 * eythian      finds references
16:17 jcamins        Folks, I've said it before and I will say it again: we need more regression tests!
16:17 eythian        @notauthed
16:17 eythian        Scenario: Login without any details
16:17 eythian        Given I am on the login page
16:17 eythian        When I press "Login »"
16:17 eythian        Then the "Username" field should have errors
16:17 eythian        And the "Password" field should have errors
16:17 eythian        stuff like that
16:17 jcamins        Ooh.
16:17 jcamins        No, I wrote it using Test::WWW::Mechanize.
16:17 jcamins        And http-recorder.
16:18 eythian        http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/libtest-cukes-perl
16:18 jcamins        Ooh.
16:20 * eythian      only heard of this today
16:20 eythian        hello melia
16:20 melia          hi eythian
16:20 jcamins        I think I would need more examples of using that to understand it.
16:23 kf             zebra - done
16:23 kf             cronjobs
16:23 wahanui        cronjobs are essential
16:23 jcamins        They can be.
16:24 jcamins        Okay, what's step 2 for testing importing authority records?
16:24 jcamins        I feel like this is something that really just requires the tester to know what the expect.
16:25 jcamins        "Make sure it will import an authority record" pretty much describes what needs to be tested.
16:25 jcamins        If it doesn't do that in the way the tester expected, it doesn't work.
16:25 jcamins        But I don't know exactly what the tester's workflow is, and that's why they're testing it and not me.
16:26 jcamins        Comments?
16:26 wahanui        Comments are turned on
16:26 jcamins        Thanks, wahanui.
16:26 wahanui        jcamins: no worries
16:26 kf             lol
16:26 jcamins        Ta, wahanui
16:26 wahanui        jcamins: sorry...
16:26 kf             jcamins: the tester will come up with a test plan for this
16:26 jcamins        kf: yeah, that's what I thought.
16:26 jcamins        Thanks.
16:26 kf             ... says the person that volunteered testing :)
16:27 kf             hm person who volunteered to test?
16:27 * kf           should go home
16:27 jcamins        I have instructions for using the command line tools, because they only support a single workflow.
16:27 jcamins        The second was correct. :)
16:27 SJeffery       Morning Melia :)
16:27 melia          morning!
16:27 wahanui        hmmm... morning is a state of mind. or whenever the cat wants breakfast.
16:28 SJeffery       Is everyone at Bywater recovered from ALA?
16:28 * kf           creates a new snapshot "koha installed"
16:28 jcamins        SJeffery: did you find a Koha gathering?
16:28 SJeffery       ok, who wrote the bib record import script and neglected to add oclc number and lc numbers as matching rules, grrr.
16:29 SJeffery       No, never did. I ended up being way too busy to organize anything.
16:29 jcamins        SJeffery: actually, fixing that is kind of a side effect of this authority matching development I'm doing.
16:29 jcamins        I was trying to figure out how to go about installing them on updates about ten seconds before you said that.
16:30 SJeffery       Did we have some sort of vulcan mind meld in the past or something?
16:30 jcamins        lol
16:30 jcamins        I think it's kind of a natural thing to get frustrated with any time you're thinking about importing.
16:31 jcamins        I'm thinking if I call the matching rules OCLC-SAMPLE and LCCN-SAMPLE, that'll make it clear for those (few) libraries who have OCLC and LCCN matching rules already.
16:31 jcamins        And I can add a random suffix if those names are taken, too.
16:32 kf             jcamins: :)
16:32 kf             you could check for the field number
16:32 kf             and don't update if they already have one
16:32 kf             maybe?
16:32 jcamins        I thought about that, but that won't work because some people use 001 for OCLC number instead of 035.
16:32 kf             ... knows some of those people
16:33 * jcamins      hopes that you have told them that it's a mistake.
16:33 kf             um.
16:33 * jcamins      hopes you will go forth and tell them that immediately.
16:34 kf             you know how it works here :) I was not referring to oclc number but to the unon catalog ID
16:34 jcamins        That's different.
16:34 kf             I think in fact we also have oclc numbers in 035
16:34 jcamins        Union catalog ID # is *exactly* what 001 is for.
16:34 jcamins        The 001 *may* include the OCLC# for records downloaded directly from OCLC.
16:34 gaetan_B       bye !
16:35 jcamins        Bye.
16:35 jcamins        (and yes, I have seen instances where it didn't)
16:35 jcamins        Also, a lot of libraries use Z39.50 for downloading records.
16:35 jcamins        Even records that are in OCLC.
16:36 * jcamins      glares at the RLIN/Worldcat merge.
16:37 kf             ok, I can't follow :)
16:37 kf             or only in parts
16:37 jcamins        kf: RLIN used to allow libraries to choose whichever record they wanted.
16:37 kf             what is RLIN?
16:37 kf             or was?
16:38 jcamins        Research Library I Network.
16:38 jcamins        I think.
16:38 jcamins        So the big PCC libraries would only download records from other big PCC libraries.
16:38 jcamins        With OCLC, the master record may not be as good as the record at, say, BYU.
16:38 jcamins        So you might want to use Z39.50 to download the record directly from BYU.
16:39 kf             hm
16:39 kf             interesting
16:39 jcamins        It *does* have an OCLC number, and you do want it to overlay the less good record.
16:39 jcamins        But the 001 is now wrong.
16:39 jcamins        Rather, the 001 no longer has the OCLC number.
16:39 jcamins        'Cause that's not what the 001 is for.
16:40 jcamins        There will be a quiz on this later for those of you in the US. :P
16:43 jcamins        Oohoo!
16:43 jcamins        *Woohoo!
16:43 jcamins        My work on bug 2060 is so advanced it hasn't even happened yet.
16:43 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2060 enhancement, P3, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , Ability to import Authorities from Staff Client
16:43 SJeffery       Perhaps...perhaps there should be a standard set of matching rules plus the option to select other and custom-define the field?
16:44 jcamins        SJeffery: well, the problem is our standard set of matching rules consists of ISBN and ISSN.
16:44 jcamins        That's it.
16:44 jcamins        Never mind the fact that ISBN is practically useless for matching MARC records.
16:45 eythian        well, still have ssh access to git.debian.org, that's a good start.
16:45 jcamins        It's possible to create new matching rules, but it's a nuisance.
16:45 schuster       Who's standard in Koha currently isn't is only LCCN or OCLC?  ISBN matching is exact only and doesn't take into account 13/10 modification.
16:45 jcamins        On the subject of which, we could fix that easily with DOM indexing.
16:45 SJeffery       Shouldn't there be a matching function/template/whatever the heck you call it that can be used across the application that would allow flexibility
16:46 jcamins        SJeffery: there is, sort of.
16:46 jcamins        Admin->Matching rules.
16:46 jcamins        Right now it doesn't work with authorities.
16:46 schuster       jcamins - I will refrain from discussion on the ISBN index matching issue as I had it working in a previous version.
16:46 jcamins        schuster: heh. I'll see how they did it.
16:47 jcamins        My goodness.
16:47 * jcamins      sees how they did it.
16:47 schuster       I have 2 patches on my old boxes that I don't know why never got contributed to community...
16:48 schuster       uh oh...  that doesn't sound good.
16:49 nengard_lunch  anybody who's good at XSLT want to help out on bug 7441
16:49 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7441 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, In Discussion , search results showing wrong branch?
16:57 eythian        nengard_lunch: added 2c, hopefully it's useful.
16:58 eythian        2p I guess at the moment
17:03 kf             eythian: I think it's something about the structure
17:03 kf             choose / when probably won't work either
17:03 eythian        kf: I think it's that xsl:if can only be used inside certain things.
17:03 kf             yep
17:03 kf             exactly
17:04 jcamins        <xsl:if> can be used anywhere so far as I know.
17:04 kf             jcamins: you can join in and make a suggestion ;)
17:05 * jcamins      will offer any feedback he comes up with before 13:10, at which point he is going back to his to-do list. ;)
17:05 jcamins        Oh.
17:05 jcamins        There's the problem.
17:05 kf             xsl:key is a top-level element
17:06 kf             I think you can't use it there
17:06 jcamins        Right.
17:06 * jcamins      hadn't read the context.
17:06 kf             :P
17:06 eythian        kf:  the error is "element if element if only allowed within a template, variable or param", which is what I was basing that on
17:06 jcamins        I'm pretty sure <xsl:choose> won't work either, as kf said.
17:06 eythian        but it's been a while since I've meddled with XSLT
17:06 kf             I think we all have the same idea
17:06 kf             we are only phrasing it differently
17:07 kf             jcamins: I agree
17:07 kf             I think xslt is weird about variables and things, some things just don't work
17:07 * jcamins      phrases it the same way kf does, when he reads the question. :)
17:07 eythian        looking deeper I see xsl:if at a higher level than I initially did.
17:07 eythian        it's not so much weird as just declarative.
17:07 kf             ok, so being declarative is weird then :)
17:07 kf             nah. I should finish this mail
17:08 eythian        someone needs to run over those xsl files with xmllint and save the reformatted version, they're hard to read.
17:08 kf             jcamins: you stil have 3 minutes? :)
17:08 jcamins        They sure are!
17:08 kf             yep they are
17:08 kf             and they are insane in parts
17:08 jcamins        use items:$OPACResultsByBranchXSLT.
17:08 jcamins        At least, that's my recommendation.
17:09 kf             put it in the comments :) you still have 2 mins!
17:09 jcamins        Also, XSLT is declarative not functional. The variable has to be set before it's used.
17:10 melia          can I ask a silly question about bug 8110?
17:10 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8110 blocker, P1 - high, ---, kyle.m.hall, Failed QA , Fines accruing on closed days
17:10 jcamins        Wait... the variable has to be set.
17:10 jcamins        Period.
17:11 melia          Julian's note says "this is not working but this is not related to the patch."  that part confuses me. I'm not sure if the next step is for someone to follow the test plan that Ian/Chris put on the ticket and sign off the patch, or if Julian is saying that the patch doesn't fix the problem
17:12 jcamins        Updated.
17:13 jcamins        Laconically.
17:13 jcamins        :)
17:30 nengard        question - in 3.6 anyone remember if when there was a hold that needed transferring did it print a transfer slip or a hold/transfer slip?
17:31 kf             not sure
17:32 nengard        k
17:59 wizzyrea       it does a transfer to x on hold for y slip
17:59 wizzyrea       I think
18:07 cait           back
18:08 jcamins        o/
18:09 cait           :)
18:09 cait           jenkins unstable ?
18:09 jcamins        !
18:09 jcamins        !status
18:09 jcamins        jenkins_koha: status
18:09 jenkins_koha   status of all projects:
18:09 jenkins_koha   3_6_Packages: last build: 16 (3 days 4 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/3_6_Packages/16/
18:09 jenkins_koha   3_8_packages: last build: 12 (1 day 14 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/3_8_packages/12/
18:09 jenkins_koha   Koha_3.2.x: last build: 36 (6 mo 26 days ago): UNSTABLE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.2.x/36/
18:09 jenkins_koha   Koha_3.4.x: last build: 80 (4 mo 7 days ago): UNSTABLE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.4.x/80/
18:09 jenkins_koha   Koha_3.6.x: last build: 53 (3 days 4 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.6.x/53/
18:09 jenkins_koha   Koha_3.8.x: last build: 74 (1 day 15 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/74/
18:09 jenkins_koha   Koha_Docs: last build: 97 (2 hr 19 min ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/97/
18:09 jenkins_koha   Koha_master: last build: 768 (3 hr 4 min ago): UNSTABLE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/768/
18:09 jenkins_koha   Master_Packages: last build: 70 (2 days 0 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Master_Packages/70/
18:09 jcamins        3.2.x and 3.4.x are allowed to be unstable.
18:10 jcamins        Oh, master is too.
18:10 cait           master
18:10 jcamins        That's not so good.
18:10 jcamins        Hm.
18:12 cait           hm.
18:12 cait           hi mveron :)
18:12 cait           what's for dinner tonight?
18:12 mveron         Streuselkuchen :-)
18:12 cait           oh yum
18:13 * mveron       ...sends cait some Streuselkuchen
18:13 cait           thx :)
18:13 drojf          that's a dinner?
18:13 jcamins        Mmm.
18:13 cait           why not? :)
18:13 jcamins        It is for me.
18:13 jcamins        :D
18:13 mveron         Had not time for cooking...
18:13 drojf          :)
18:13 * cait         was pondering bread with nutella :P
18:14 cait           but first - the laundry ...
18:14 cait           bbiab
18:16 * mveron       ponders what's going wrong with Bug 7621, works here but not for delaye
18:16 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7621 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, veron, Signed Off , Circulation: Match age restriction of title with borrower's age without using categories
18:47 rhcl           @seen wizzyrea
18:47 huginn         rhcl: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 47 minutes and 55 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> I think
18:47 rhcl           ping wizzyrea
18:49 * jcamins      concludes that wizzyrea probably is, since she was thinking 48 minutes ago.
18:50 rhcl           3M is offering an eBook service; they have "deeply" integrated it with Polaris, and working to do the same with other ILSs, including Sirsi....
18:50 rhcl           has anybody reflected on this integration w/ Koha?
18:50 * jcamins      wonders when they're going to be contributing to Koha.
18:50 jcamins        I heard about it vaguely, but didn't pay much attention.
18:50 rhcl           I think they would entertain some interest on the subject
18:50 rhcl           we had a webcon with the rep yesterday
18:51 rhcl           3M seems to have a much much simpler, easier user interface (vs OverDrive), but it's expensive
18:52 rhcl           the "deep" integration apparently refers to having ebooks listed in the ILS, and checked out via the library's OPAC exactly like a paper book, without leaving the OPAC
18:53 jcamins        It seems to me that Koha libraries would be more likely to be interested if the service were well-integrated (same as Polaris and Sirsi users, of course).
18:53 rhcl           otherwise it apparently works fine w/ SIP, but takes the patron out of the OPAC to the 3M site
18:53 jcamins        If it works fine with SIP, that's still a step ahead of Overdrive half the time...
18:53 rhcl           yea, but I think it's a "chicken and egg" problem. 3M would be interested if the libraries expressed and interest, and <->.
18:54 jcamins        I would agree.
18:54 rhcl           Yes, it completly bypasses the Adobe fifty-click download/install crap.
18:55 rhcl           the rep mentioned that Kansas was doing something w/ 3M, so was going to check w/ wizzyrea
18:57 jcamins        @later tell rangi Could you please kick Jill Griffiths off the koha@lists.katipo.co.nz mailing list? Her autoresponder is going to be spamming the list once a day for who knows how long.
18:57 huginn         jcamins: The operation succeeded.
18:57 rhcl           OK, my quantum is expiring and the CPU scheduler is ready to end my cycle time...it was fun...ltr
19:11 abracadabra    help me please: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1063060/
19:12 jcamins        abracadabra: sorry, this is the channel for Koha.
19:12 jcamins        You can download Koha from koha-community.org.
19:12 jcamins        The software you are using is only supported by LibLime, and as far as I know only used by their customers.
19:14 abracadabra    koha is open ILS?
19:14 jcamins        Koha is an open source ILS.
19:15 jcamins        You downloaded a fork made by LibLime.
19:16 jcamins        That is, you downloaded a package that contains a version of the fork.
19:16 jcamins        Sorry, that first sentence was a little incomprehensible.
19:17 drojf          abracadabra: the koha website is at http://www.koha-community.org/ you can get the latest version of koha there
19:20 wizzyrea       hi- i'm back now
19:21 wizzyrea       what about 3M?
19:21 jcamins        They have a new ebook platform.
19:21 wizzyrea       oh yea 3m cloud library
19:21 wizzyrea       kansas uses it :P
19:22 jcamins        Greg was wondering about your experiences, and whether Koha integration was planned.
19:22 wizzyrea       define "integration"
19:22 jcamins        He said that they're doing this integration where patrons can actually check out books directly from the OPAC.
19:22 wizzyrea       hmm we haven't seen that
19:23 wizzyrea       and afaik there isn't any particular movement in that direction. Certainly, you can link to the 3M from your ebook record
19:23 jcamins        Well, I think the question was more "is this something you are demanding?" ;)
19:27 jcamins        abracada1ra: I'm not sure if you saw the messages earlier, but if not, you should look at koha-community.org which is the Koha website, and where you can download the current version of Koha from.
19:30 drojf          git 101/db problem. i have my changes, all works fine. i want to continue to work on it but do git pull first. looks all fine except for a conflict in updatedatabase.pl. i change the file so it looks right but forget that i of course already did my "xxx" db update last time. i get an error message after the db update for duplicate db entry. now opac is in maintenance mode. what do i do?
19:31 jcamins        drojf: run updatedatabase, then go back to the OPAC.
19:31 jcamins        :)
19:31 jcamins        Ignore the duplicate error message.
19:31 drojf          tried that, did not work
19:32 jcamins        drojf: you're not refreshing the OPAC, are you?
19:32 jcamins        'Cause you have to hit "Back" when you're looking at the maintenance page. ;)
19:33 drojf          ah. im using the plack opac. i should probably reload that
19:33 jcamins        Oh, yes.
19:34 drojf          yeah all there
19:34 drojf          :)
19:34 drojf          so in general i just leave my db update in the file as the last one to do and ignore the error after a git pull?
19:34 jcamins        Right.
19:35 drojf          excellent. thanks
19:35 jcamins        I usually run updatedatabase from the command line, too, so I don't have to worry about getting the maintenance message on the OPAC.
19:36 drojf          that sounds wise, i'll adopt that
19:38 jcamins        Also, I don't do development under Plack 'cause then I have to remember to restart it.
19:39 drojf          heh yes. but since i actually still work on the raspi it is painfully slow to test things without plack
19:39 abracada1ra    jcamins: ok, i downloaded and install now
19:39 abracada1ra    on ubuntu 10
19:40 jcamins        Ubuntu... 10.04?
19:41 drojf          that is pretty old. like, releaqsed in april 2010 ;)
19:41 drojf          released even
19:41 jcamins        12.04 is the new LTS release.
19:42 jcamins        That said, I am boycotting Ubuntu since my disastrous experiments with it a few weeks ago.
19:42 drojf          jcamins: did you try to upgrade it?
19:42 jcamins        drojf: no, I installed 12.04 from scratch, and learned that MySQL included anonymous logins by default.
19:42 drojf          that got me off ubuntu. NO upgrade ever worked. it just took much longer than a new installation to finally fail and make me do a new installation
19:43 drojf          oh that sounds interesting
19:43 jcamins        "Interesting"?
19:43 wizzyrea       interesting?
19:43 wizzyrea       oh he doesnt' say it anymore!
19:43 wizzyrea       interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
19:43 wizzyrea       interesting?
19:43 wahanui        i guess interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
19:44 drojf          it was more a scary "interesting"
19:45 jcamins        Ah.
19:46 abracada1ra    hey
19:46 abracada1ra    i need help for this error
19:46 abracada1ra    http://paste.ubuntu.com/1063112/
19:46 jcamins        I have never seen anything like that, but it clearly has something to do with LibXML.
19:47 jcamins        Did you install the prerequisites?
19:47 abracada1ra    yes and test its ok
19:47 abracada1ra    look
19:47 abracada1ra    root@ult-dev1:/home/ult/Download/koha-3.8.2#  misc/sax_parser_print.pl
19:47 abracada1ra    Koha wants something like: XML::LibXML::SAX::Parser=HASH(0x81fe220)
19:47 abracada1ra    You have: XML::LibXML::SAX::Parser=HASH(0x8bd18c0)
19:47 abracada1ra    Looks good.
19:48 jcamins        Run koha_perl_deps.pl -m and copy the output into paste.koha-community.org
19:50 abracada1ra    ok
19:59 abracada1ra    jcamins: http://paste.koha-community.org/8
19:59 jcamins        There's the problem.
20:00 jcamins        You don't have XML::LibXSLT.
20:00 abracada1ra    how i install 2 modules?
20:00 jcamins        sudo apt-get install --reinstall libxml-perl libxml-libxslt-perl
20:00 abracada1ra    required
20:01 drojf          can someone explain what the difference between 856 (marc21/unimarc) subfields $h and $l might be?
20:01 drojf          $h Processor of request: The username, or processor of the request; generally the data which precedes  the at sign ("@") in the host address. Not repeatable.
20:01 drojf          $l Logon/login General-use logon/login strings which do not require special security.  Not repeatable.
20:01 jcamins        And then you'll need to install Template::Plugin::HtmlToText. I forget the package. Let me check.
20:02 jcamins        Oh, drat.
20:02 jcamins        That one isn't available in .deb, other than from me.
20:02 jcamins        You can cpan it.
20:02 jcamins        Oh, and you're on 10.04.
20:02 jcamins        You'll need to cpan it.
20:02 jcamins        cpan Template::Plugin::HtmlToText
20:03 jcamins        drojf: to be honest, I am not sure.
20:04 drojf          loc even explains "An account number required for login may also be indicated. For many general-use File Transfer Protocol servers, access is gained by entering the string anonymous." for $l. that is exactly what $h is too
20:05 jcamins        Hehe.
20:05 drojf          maybe i should check for both, use the one that is there and if both fields are filled with different values, explode
20:05 * jcamins      returns to magnuse's refrain: MARC must die.
20:05 jcamins        Makes sense to me.
20:05 drojf          :)
20:06 abracada1ra    jcamins: please look this: http://paste.koha-community.org/9
20:06 schuster       When using batch delete of items does it move them to the deleteditems table still?
20:07 cait           drojf: first question?
20:07 wahanui        "What are you trying to do?"  "What is the goal?" or "What problem are you experiencing?"
20:08 jcamins        Oh boy.
20:08 jcamins        abracada1ra: I think there is probably something wrong with your system.
20:08 drojf          abracada1ra: you should consider http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.8_on_Debian_Squeeze
20:09 jcamins        drojf: on Ubuntu 10.04, installing 3.8 with packages is going to be close to as painful as installing it without.
20:09 drojf          NO
20:09 drojf          install squeeze
20:09 jcamins        And upgrading from 10.04 to 11.10 or greater is just going to break everything anyway.
20:09 drojf          then use packages
20:09 jcamins        drojf: oh, yeah, _that_ is a good idea.
20:09 jcamins        abracada1ra: listen to drojf. He is wise. :)
20:09 drojf          i thought the title saying debian squeeze would give that away :)
20:09 jcamins        lol
20:10 drojf          but you are right
20:10 drojf          cait: i try to guess what subfields somebody would fill in 856 with what values that might be relevant to video(audio streaming
20:10 cait           oh
20:10 abracada1ra    jcamins: version apt install 1.7 and koha need 1.59 ... version problem?
20:10 cait           drojf: not many ideas about that :)
20:11 drojf          abracada1ra: koha does not need a special apt version
20:11 drojf          that sounds very strange at least
20:11 jcamins        abracada1ra: no, the problem is that it isn't visible to Koha at all.
20:11 abracada1ra    omg
20:11 jcamins        drojf: XML::LibXSLT version.
20:11 abracada1ra    my system have problem?
20:11 drojf          cait: i have most of it
20:11 jcamins        abracada1ra: I fear so. When did you set up the OS on it?
20:12 jcamins        cait: make drojf show you his demo if he hasn't yet.
20:12 drojf          cait: its even the same mostly in unimarc and marc21. only some differences. of course for fields i wanted to use for html5 attributes :/
20:13 abracada1ra    jcamins: recently
20:13 abracada1ra    i install eclipse, apache, and koha
20:13 abracada1ra    php mysql...
20:13 jcamins        abracada1ra: why did you install Ubuntu 10.04?
20:13 drojf          abracada1ra: do you use the server for anything else yet?
20:15 abracada1ra    my notebook the company for testing, who else was installed, the support
20:15 abracada1ra    te support man install this
20:15 abracada1ra    for my workspace programing php
20:16 abracada1ra    and now i test koha here... and vufind
20:17 abracada1ra    debian squeeze is recommended for koha?
20:17 abracada1ra    jcamins: drojf
20:17 drojf          yes. you can setup koha with packages very easily there
20:17 jcamins        abracada1ra: yes, definitely.
20:17 drojf          und updates are easy too
20:17 drojf          and
20:20 abracada1ra    and now? What do I do? cry?
20:21 jcamins        abracada1ra: unfortunately, there appears to be something seriously wrong with LibXML on your system. In your situation, I would just reinstall the OS (but use Debian Squeeze because it's a lot easier).
20:21 drojf          abracada1ra: dont cry, call the it guy and get debian squeeze
20:22 drojf          or do it yourself if you can/ are allowed to
20:22 abracada1ra    i have change on my xml conf
20:24 abracada1ra    the problem in package
20:24 abracada1ra    correct
20:25 abracada1ra    very thanks for your help jcamins and drojf
20:25 jcamins        abracada1ra: it is unlikely the problem is the changes that you were instructed to make to your XML configuration.
20:26 abracada1ra    i show the change
20:26 abracada1ra    vim /etc/perl/XML/SAX/ParserDetails.ini
20:26 abracada1ra    add
20:27 abracada1ra    [XML::LibXML::SAX::Parser]
20:27 abracada1ra    http://xml.org/sax/features/namespaces = 1
20:27 abracada1ra    in bottom of file
20:28 jcamins        Yeah, that shouldn't be enough to break it.
20:28 jcamins        Right. It's a much bigger problem than that could have called. :(
20:28 jcamins        *caused
20:29 abracada1ra    ok
20:30 abracada1ra    i use this manual
20:30 abracada1ra    http://clean-clouds.com/2011/12/22/open-source-ils-installation-guide-for-koha-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts-with-mysql-5/
20:31 drojf          that blog post keeps up sending people with problems over
20:32 jcamins        It does indeed.
20:33 jcamins        I wonder who that is.
20:33 jcamins        And if we could get him/her to point out that the instructions maintained by the community are more up-to-date.
20:34 wizzyrea       it's not *that* old, december 2011
20:34 drojf          yes
20:34 drojf          wizzyrea
20:34 wahanui        I LIKE SCIENCE
20:34 drojf          i just saw that
20:34 drojf          that is strange
20:35 abracada1ra    jcamins: bad manual?
20:35 jcamins        wizzyrea: yeah, but it's suggesting that people install Jaunty, which is from 2009.
20:35 jcamins        abracada1ra: yes, better to A) install Debian, and B) use the current instructions where are included with Koha.
20:36 wizzyrea       i'm not saying it's right, just that it's not that old ;)
20:36 abracada1ra    jcamins: US friend in freenode.org #vufind recomend to me liblime koha
20:36 jcamins        Yeah, that's what makes it so noteworthy that s/he recommends installing a version of Ubuntu that's three years out of date.
20:37 jcamins        abracada1ra: I can't recommend, because *no one* will help you with it.
20:37 jcamins        Unless you want to pay LibLime.
20:37 abracada1ra    jcamins: i find manual google... and blog result
20:37 wizzyrea       well, liblime will help you with it, for a fee. A large fee.
20:37 abracada1ra    jcamins: later i join in #koha in freenode.org
20:37 drojf          you can't spell freedom with fee
20:37 drojf          :P
20:37 abracada1ra    and telme for this channel
20:38 jcamins        wizzyrea: fair enough.
20:38 wizzyrea       liblime ILS is based on Koha, but it's not what we support
20:38 jcamins        abracada1ra: they were mistaken about LibLime Koha being the open source project. That's all. :)
20:39 abracada1ra    jcamins: this process of searching I have broken my system
20:40 jcamins        My guess would be that there was a problem after your IT guy installed it.
20:40 drojf          is that the official vufind channel?
20:40 abracada1ra    jcamins: the result of the google liblime Koha appears before the Koha open community
20:40 jcamins        abracada1ra: yes, it's unfortunate. :(
20:40 abracada1ra    :(
20:41 wizzyrea       they stole our domain a few years ago.
20:41 wizzyrea       it's very unfortunate.
20:41 abracada1ra    and comunity website dont have link for IRC support
20:41 wizzyrea       … not true, actually
20:41 abracada1ra    this would greatly facilitate the installation of software
20:41 wizzyrea       http://koha-community.org/support/
20:41 abracada1ra    for newbies
20:41 jcamins        http://koha-community.org/support/
20:42 jcamins        Sorry, wizzyrea.
20:42 jcamins        :)
20:42 abracada1ra    hmm
20:42 abracada1ra    ok
20:42 abracada1ra    nice
20:43 abracada1ra    nnow talked with those who understand, I make the correct process of installation
20:48 rangi          jcamins: done
20:49 jcamins        rangi: thanks.
20:49 jcamins        I was annoyed yesterday, and more annoyed today, so by tomorrow I was going to be downright grouchy. ;)
20:49 rangi          Heh
20:49 * rangi        just checked in at airport off to waimate today
20:50 rangi          @wunder waimate, nz
20:50 huginn         rangi: The current temperature in Oamaru North, Oamaru, New Zealand is 8.3°C (8:48 AM NZST on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: -1.0°C. Windchill: 8.0°C. Pressure: 29.59 in 1002 hPa (Rising).
20:50 cait           safe travels and good morning rangi
20:52 drojf          i thought i would write a comment for that outdated blog post, but it seems i would have to allow 10-20 other domains to embed stuff to get the form. i hate this
20:54 wizzyrea       O.o doh
20:56 wizzyrea       interesting the instructions aren't for LLILS, they do point you to download the community version
20:56 jcamins        Well, that's something.
20:58 jcamins        Woohoo! I got this working!
20:58 jcamins        Well, sort of.
20:59 kathryn        morning all :)
21:00 cait           morning kathryn :)
21:00 kathryn        hey cait!
21:10 jcamins        There must be a better way to choose which entry is selected than a dozen if statements.
21:11 jcamins        (in a select box)
21:12 jcamins        Anyone?
21:13 cait           switch?
21:13 cait           not sure what you want to do...
21:13 jcamins        I have a <select> with 9 <options>
21:13 jcamins        I would like the option that was previously selected to be selected when the page loads.
21:14 cait           aren't there a lot of examples for that in koha?
21:14 cait           previously selected - what do you mean by that?
21:14 cait           a saved value?
21:14 jcamins        Right.
21:15 jcamins        We seem to use [% IF %]... I think for translations reasons.
21:15 jcamins        I'm looking for another example now.
21:16 jcamins        We do things like this: [% IF ( limit == 10 ) %]<option value ="10" selected="selected">10 titles</option>[% ELSE %]<option value="10">10 titles</option>[% END %]
21:16 cait           yes
21:16 cait           you don't want to put the if inside of the <option> tag
21:17 cait           why not pass the selected value wth the loop?
21:17 cait           I think I have seen that
21:17 cait           and in the loop it checks for selected = 1 and then it's only one if else construct
21:17 cait           if that makes any sense
21:18 jcamins        Which I will do, but it's so much duplicated code.
21:18 jcamins        It feels like there should be a construction that does this for me.
21:18 * jcamins      makes one up.
21:18 jcamins        Please hold.
21:18 jcamins        The options are defined in the template.
21:18 jcamins        That was the entire point of bug 7943.
21:18 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7943 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Master , Untranslatable strings in OPAC's authority search
21:18 jcamins        :)
21:18 jcamins        It does, and that was my first thought.
21:19 jcamins        Is there anything that is included in ABSOLUTELY every page?
21:19 jcamins        doc-head-open.
21:19 rangi          Make more includes
21:19 rangi          And use them. Thats what we need to do
21:20 * jcamins      would like a form-blocks.inc
21:20 rangi          With the tt caching we have its super fast
21:20 * jcamins      boldly creates one.
21:20 jcamins        (with rangi's encouragement;)
21:20 rangi          It could contain a view
21:21 jcamins        A view?
21:21 rangi          And the formblock(stuff) in the tt
21:21 jcamins        I was thinking a block.
21:21 jcamins        Hm, yeah, maybe a view is better.
21:21 jcamins        Good call.
21:21 jcamins        A view it is.
21:21 cait           :)
21:22 rangi          Yay :)
21:22 rangi          U know what
21:22 jcamins        Wait... VIEW API is expected to change.
21:23 rangi          Ahh in that case block it is
21:23 jcamins        Yup. :)
21:23 jcamins        Which is a shame, 'cause I've decided that the VIEW would be nicer.
21:23 rangi          You know what I want
21:24 rangi          A switch that puts a watermark on every page
21:24 jcamins        I'm not sure how to do that, but it's an intriguing idea.
21:24 jcamins        Waylon could use it.
21:24 rangi          So I can switch a site to be staging
21:25 rangi          And ppl won't get confused with the live site
21:26 rangi          I dont want to change CSS as often that's what i want them to test
21:26 jcamins        Right.
21:26 rangi          But something (other than url)
21:27 rangi          That screams dont use me in production
21:27 rangi          :)
21:27 cjh            heh, shouldnt be too difficult. Although my css isn't good enough.
21:28 rangi          Mine either
21:29 jcamins        What do you mean, selectoption not found? I'm looking at it!
21:33 abracada1ra    jcamins: do you have example .mrc file ? for tests in vufind?
21:33 jcamins        marc sample data?
21:33 jcamins        marc data?
21:33 wahanui        well, marc data is being migrated from 2.2.9 to 3.2
21:33 jcamins        wiki?
21:33 wahanui        it has been said that wiki is http://wiki.koha-community.org
21:34 jcamins        If you look on the wiki, you'll find a link to sample data somewhere.
21:35 abracada1ra    jcamins: ok man... very thanks
21:35 rangi          It's freezing in here
21:35 * rangi        complains on Twitter
21:42 jcamins        Can you not include things from other include files?
21:42 jcamins        No, that doesn't seem to be it.
21:44 jcamins        Oh.
21:44 jcamins        You have to *PROCESS* the include.
21:44 jcamins        :)
21:44 rangi          Well process and include are different
21:45 jcamins        So it would seem.
21:45 rangi          Process changes values in the calling thing
21:46 rangi          Include locally scoped
21:46 rangi          TT pages have a good write up
21:46 jcamins        I knew that at some point, apparently, since I got it right last time.
21:47 rangi          :)
21:48 drojf          what is a sane way to test if a value exists and if so, put it into tt? [% IF HTML5Streaming.username %][% HTML5Streaming.username %][% END %] looks not very straight forward?
21:49 jcamins        No, that's the way we do it.
21:49 jcamins        We should have a block for that.
21:49 jcamins        [% PROCESS includevariable variable=HTML5Streaming.username %]
21:49 jcamins        Even better would be includevariable(HTML5Streaming.username)
21:50 cait           for a start I would be happy to get rid of some if statements
21:50 cait           we do one for each condition
21:50 cait           that's hardly readable in some place
21:50 cait           s
21:50 cait           instead of combining them into one if
21:50 rangi          Yeah that's leftover from htp
21:50 rangi          Also you can do or
21:50 jcamins        cait: don't scare drojf off!
21:50 rangi          I think
21:50 cait           but anything that's even better is welcome too :)
21:51 cait           yep
21:51 cait           I think so too
21:51 cait           wow
21:51 cait           4 letters for the post box tomorrow morning
21:51 cait           that' svery unusual
21:51 cjh            there are places where we have IFs inside IFs and all on a single line :(
21:51 cait           I send that much letters in a year normally
21:52 cait           cjh: eew
21:52 drojf          i will have ifs inside ifs i guess :/
21:52 rangi          Htmlstreaming.name or blah
21:52 schuster       well its time for me to say so long!  Have a great evening!
21:53 drojf          i guess i will try to get it do what i want before i try to make it less ugly :D
21:55 rangi          Hmm no plane yet
21:55 rangi          Looks like I'm gonna be late
21:56 drojf          always good to have a plane to blame
21:56 rangi          Kathryn: did we tell waimate a time I'd arrive?
21:57 kathryn        rangi: 1pm. and tomorrow you're expected there 9 - 2.45pm
21:57 rangi          Cool
21:58 rangi          I should make 1
21:58 rangi          Plane is 20 mins late
21:58 kathryn        think I left you time for a pie or sammie :)
21:58 kathryn        ah... stink
22:02 * jcamins      curses whoever thought frameworks would be a good idea.
22:02 jcamins        I mean, the concept is fine, but the implementation...
22:02 jcamins        ugh.
22:06 cait           jcamins: sounds familiar
22:07 jcamins        Also, who thought "/" was a good character to put in an ID?
22:08 jcamins        (it works fine, but you remove other punctuation and keep slashes?
22:10 jcamins        74 lines to add one subfield to a half dozen fields.