Time Nick Message 02:28 Waylon hiya all, and happy bday nengard.. who isn't even here. 02:29 Waylon okay, on a siege test of my two server-in-vms setup, 10 concurrent users, 5 second delay, only 70% of the searches get a response. is this because it is on vms? 02:30 jcamins_away Waylon: probably. Probably something to do with Apache settings. 02:31 jcamins_away Let me try that again. 02:31 jcamins_away Probably not the fact that they are VMs. 02:31 jcamins_away Probably Apache tuning. 02:31 * jcamins_away leaves again. 02:32 Waylon have got two physical servers... two vm's each server. on each, there is the actual live server, and a dev or upgrade test server. If we go the bare bone approach, we'll need another server to host the vms for the dev stuff. 02:33 jcamins_away Waylon: if you give the servers twice as much resources, they'll work twice as fast, but, as I said, I think the problem is probably in your Apache settings. 02:33 jcamins_away There's a page on tuning Koha somewhere on the wiki. 02:33 Waylon are you able to take a look, jcamins_away? 02:34 jcamins_away Not at the moment, sorry. 02:35 Waylon we're also running koha 2.0.0pre1 02:35 jcamins_away Waylon: you should be using Koha 3.6 or 3.8. 02:35 Waylon yeah.. ours has been heavily modded without git history 02:35 jcamins_away You won't be able to get any support on Koha 2.x, and about the only thing anyone is likely to remember how to do with 3.0 is upgrade. 02:36 Waylon huge speed increase in search with the 3.x branches? 02:37 rangi with 3.8 you can run the opac under plack, which is a massive speed increase 02:37 rangi but 3.6 will perform a lot faster the 2.0 searching too, on any database of a decent size 02:37 rangi say 30k records upwards 02:38 Waylon yeah i think we have more than 30k. 02:38 Waylon zebra alone needs more than 2GB registry. 02:38 jcamins_away You're going to have to do it eventually... pull down a git clone, locate where you forked, and start picking up the pieces. 02:38 jcamins_away No point in doing anything else with your servers until you do that. 02:38 jcamins_away Probably. 02:38 jcamins_away But *no one* is going to be able to help you with what you have now. 02:38 jcamins_away (even if they aren't more-or-less not here) 02:39 rangi wait, you are running zebra with 2.0??? 02:39 Waylon oo wait. 02:39 * Waylon just woke up, okay.. 02:39 Waylon Think i have 3.0.0pre1 02:40 Waylon marcxml and zebra.. yeha. 02:40 jcamins_away There's no such thing... I checked 'cause I was curious. Maybe a beta? 02:40 jcamins_away Or RC? 02:40 jcamins_away There is, in fact, a version 2.0.0pre1, though. 02:40 jcamins_away Okay, here's what you need to do: 02:40 jcamins_away 1. Figure out what version of Koha your fork was based on. 02:41 jcamins_away 2. Find the point in git where you branched off. 02:41 jcamins_away 3. Split your changes into self-contained commits. 02:41 jcamins_away 4. Upgrade to something modern, bringing along those changes you can't live without. 02:42 Waylon our $VERSION = "3.00.00.094"; 02:43 Waylon but ive tried to figure out the git version... and found patches that came from higher versions.. but patches in between were not brought in. 02:43 jcamins_away That's... unfortunate. 02:43 Waylon Before i came along.. the developer cherrypicked patches. 02:43 jcamins_away Unfortunately, there's no way around it. 02:43 Waylon yup 02:43 Waylon means a total redo, and reimplement. 02:44 jcamins_away You could conceivably hire a vendor to work with you on it, but I can tell you it wouldn't be cheap, and I'm not sure which vendor would be willing. 02:44 Waylon hah. im the coder for it. sadly, the only coder. 02:45 jcamins_away Well, you have your work cut out if you're going to be doing it all yourself. 02:45 Waylon 3.6 has speed advantage over 3.0? 02:46 jcamins_away I'd imagine. 02:46 jcamins_away It has one even more important advantage, though: people can talk to you about it and say something other than "ouch, that sucks... good luck." 02:49 Waylon yeah 02:49 Waylon okay, well.. thanks jcamins_away 02:49 jcamins_away Good luck. 02:49 Waylon yeh. 02:49 Waylon Think i need it. 02:49 jcamins_away You certainly do. 02:50 Waylon how does one turn off logging for one line of chat? 02:50 jcamins_away [off] 02:50 myra hi! 02:50 rangi hi myra 02:50 myra can i inquire here? 02:51 rangi you just did 02:51 jcamins_away @quote get 145 02:51 huginn jcamins_away: Quote #145: "Don't ask to ask, just ask!" (added by wizzyrea at 02:37 PM, July 07, 2011) 02:51 myra hahaha! 02:51 myra well, thanks rangi 02:51 myra is the biblionumber the same as call number? 02:51 rangi no 02:51 Waylon [off] God i wish i never took this job. So keen on getting paid for koha work, that i took the first job that would have me... with no idea of the mess they were in. 02:52 myra ok. what is the purpose of the biblionumber? 02:52 rangi the biblionumber is Koha's internal id number, its used by Koha, and shouldnt be used by humans for anything 02:52 Waylon [off] Admittedly, it pays okay. 02:52 myra is it just like a reference number for each record entered in the database? 02:52 rangi you might have 3 items with the same callnumber 02:52 rangi yes 02:52 rangi its a unique identifier 02:52 rangi not for human usage 02:52 jcamins_away [off] Well, that's something, and maybe you'll be able to find another one. 02:53 myra ok. 02:53 myra so, what is the format of the biblionumber? 02:53 rangi whatever you do, do not ever delete it from the frameworks 02:53 Waylon hmm.... in fact rangi, to avoid spydering, the company i work for is considering encrypting their biblionumbers. 02:53 rangi lol thats the silliest thing ive heard today 02:53 jcamins_away Waylon: are you kidding? 02:53 myra ok 02:54 Waylon on webside that is. 02:54 Waylon dbase side, would be the same. 02:54 jcamins_away Waylon: I am totally perplexed by this. That's absolutely nuts. 02:54 rangi sounds like a recipe for madness, and making it even slower, and wouldnt work 02:54 rangi if they were running 3.4 or later, opacpublic would do that for them 02:54 jcamins_away rangi: but, you could encrypt the bib numbers! 02:54 Waylon okay, how would they stop mass sequential downloads? 02:55 jcamins_away Using asymetrical keys. 02:55 rangi make it not public 02:55 jcamins_away Waylon: either don't let people who aren't allowed access onto the system, or give up. 02:55 jcamins_away You can't have your cake and eat it too. 02:55 Waylon its not public. its only accesable to universities and their students. 02:55 jcamins_away Right, there's no way around this. 02:55 rangi so you dont want the students to spider it? 02:56 * jcamins_away thinks he may have heard of some software written by some students once. 02:57 jcamins_away It had this really catchy name... 02:57 jcamins_away Oh yeah, Linux. 02:57 rangi hehe 02:58 Waylon yes rangi... can't trust students.. might mass download and then just offer the pdfs for download on the net. 02:58 jcamins_away Waylon: then they need to find an alternative to Koha that provides a proprietary reader. 02:58 jcamins_away And get used to the idea that if any students cared, they'd get around it. 02:59 * jcamins_away would never support inclusion of a proprietary reader into Koha, for the record. 02:59 Waylon so the idea of encrypting the biblionumbers before they go out, and then on receving a download/details request, decrypting the param, is a bad idea? 02:59 jcamins_away Monumentally bad. 02:59 jcamins_away Kind of like Napoleon's plan to take a hike in Russia. 03:01 Waylon why, how long does it take to encrypt one number? 03:01 jcamins_away A) who cares? 03:01 jcamins_away B) see A 03:02 Waylon Okay, so... why would it be bad? 03:02 jcamins_away C) not an insignificant amount of time 03:02 jcamins_away If something goes wrong, you are not going to be able to debug. 03:02 jcamins_away (for example) 03:03 jcamins_away If you are using actual encryption, it's expensive. 03:03 rangi you're punishing everyone, to stop a few, better look at the logs, find out who is doing it, discipline them 03:03 jcamins_away If you are using a hash, it's easy to figure out. 03:03 rangi and any algorithm you can decrypt 03:03 rangi in a reasonable time 03:03 jcamins_away You would have to rewrite every single page. 03:03 rangi someone else can 03:04 jcamins_away Didn't I just say that? 03:04 rangi if you amke it one time use, then no persistent urls 03:04 rangi yep, im just reinforcing how mad it is :) 03:04 jcamins_away Okay, just checking. 03:06 Waylon what about a new column, random uuid+encryption per biblio, and thats the param that goes in and out, no encryption/decryption done, and intranet can still do everything by biblionumbers? 03:08 jcamins_away If you really wanted, that'd be less of a bad idea (but forget the encryption), but still a very bad idea. 03:11 jcamins_away Also, this would in no way prevent anyone from downloading all the records. 03:11 jcamins_away A person just has to do a search that returns the entire database and use a screen scraper. 03:12 rangi or wget -r from the search 03:12 Waylon right. a search that returns the entire db would time out though? 03:12 rangi no 03:12 jcamins_away Of course not. 03:12 jcamins_away What use would a search engine be if it couldn't return results? 03:14 Waylon well.. for a page of results, yeah but for the entire 2GB of results? 03:14 rangi it only returns a page at a time 03:14 * Waylon nods. 03:14 Waylon So would take some time. 03:14 rangi so im failing to see your point the wget follows the next link too 03:14 cjh even if they couldnt view the database in one go, they could script it to view it in however many chunks they want.. 03:14 Waylon oo.. 03:15 jcamins_away Scraping a database is going to take a while no matter what. 03:15 Waylon right. 03:15 jcamins_away 'Cause you're downloading a heck of a lot of data. 03:20 rangi and people do it :) 03:20 rangi http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon12_Schedule#This_is_an_interesting_metadata_source._Can_I_import_it_into_Koha.3F_.2830_min.29 03:20 jcamins_away That was *so cool*. 03:20 jcamins_away And I wasn't even there. 03:20 rangi :) 03:21 Waylon well.. ive submitted my response to the performance issue.... oh another thing i forgot to mention, the sysadmin thinks it could be disk performance because of vms.... however, i use physical partitions/LVM volumes in XCP. not images or whatever SR system XCP natively has. 03:21 Waylon and zebra is on a seperate physical hdd. 03:21 rangi have you watched iotop 03:21 jcamins_away You could try benchmarking. 03:21 rangi and top 03:22 rangi when you try to load test 03:22 rangi dollars to donuts its apache using all the ram and swapping 03:22 * Waylon nods. "need to give apache more ram eh? 03:23 rangi top will tell you, but thats my random guess 03:23 jcamins_away No bet. 03:24 Waylon how does one get the total (all processes) amount of ram, apache is using ? 03:25 Waylon sieging now. 03:26 Waylon everythjing seems.... .. well. did seem fine until a few seconds ago. 03:26 Waylon now getting some time outs. 03:27 Waylon lifted siege.. .seeing if anytthing is in logs. 03:30 * jcamins_away calls it a night, his sudden burst of desire to have a spotless kitchen having passed. 03:30 Waylon k. night jcamins_away 03:31 Waylon no apparent errors in the koha-opac-error log 03:44 Waylon interesting... server1 has lots of used swap.. server 2 has basically none used. 03:49 Waylon ah.. server2 just had lots of zebrasrv processes in iotop hitting 99% cpu for a bit... soon after they diseappeaered... siege said timeout. 04:00 Waylon hmm... how do i decrease the amount of io zebra needs to do? 04:21 Waylon hmmmmm... could plack work with koha 3.0? 04:27 Oak kia ora #koha 04:45 Waylon hello oak 04:46 Oak hello Waylon :) 04:46 Oak Guten Morgen cait 04:46 cait hi Oak :) 04:46 Oak :) 05:19 mveron Good morning #koha 05:21 cait hi mveron :) 05:21 mveron hi cait :-) 05:33 rangi http://i.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/7175364/Library-updates-to-global-system 05:37 rangi wb cait 05:37 cait thx rangi 05:47 dcook Quick question for everyone. How do people keep on top of new patches? I saw Nicole's "Bug 8321 - fix OPACShowBarcode description" and was utterly confused until I saw Amit's "Bug 6774 - Display barcode on OPAC detail page". Yet, when I went to apply that patch, it seemed that I was still behind, so I kept getting conflicts. 05:47 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8321 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nengard, Needs Signoff , fix OPACShowBarcode description 05:47 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6774 enhancement, P3, ---, amit.gupta, Pushed to Master , Display barcode on OPAC detail page 05:48 cait dcook: what are you trying to do? 05:50 dcook I installed 3.8.0 back in May, and I've been working on cutting over all our local enhancements from 3.2.x (we're quite behind). One of our enhancements was to show the barcode in opac-detail.pl, but when I saw that was unnecessary, I wanted to go with the community version. 05:50 cait dcook: the feature is very new 05:51 cait so it will be in 3.10 probably, maybe in one of the other versions if rmaint decides to port it back, but as it's a new feature, that's not so likely 05:52 cait I think I would update to the latest stable version and then wait 05:52 cait customizations are always trouble 05:52 dcook Agreed, but we do quite a few of them anyway :P 05:53 cait if you can't wait you should be using git for your changes 05:53 dcook Actually, I'm hoping to feed a great many back into the community so as to avoid this exercise in the future 05:53 cait and you can try to port the solution, but be careful with the database update 05:53 dcook All our new enhancements I commit to the git 05:53 cait giving back is the best way doing it :) 05:53 dcook It is a philosophy I endorse whole-heartedly :) 05:54 dcook Unfortunately, in the past, we didn't have the time so there is this enormous backlog 05:54 dcook Definitely more than a little overwhelming :S 05:54 cait consider filing bug reports on bugzilla :) - that way other people can comment and we can avoid doubled up work 05:55 dcook That's what I've been doing lately with new bugs I come across that I don't have the time to fix. Are you saying that I should be registering each of my enhancements on bugzilla? 05:55 cait I think it's a good idea yes :) 05:56 cait at least the bigger ones 05:56 cait and if you are now making them work with a current version, might be worth to submit patches for master in the same step 05:56 cait while you still know what you are doing and how it works - and it will help getting them in the next version 05:56 cait so your next update will be way more painless 05:57 dcook That is the goal :) 05:57 cait :) 05:57 cait for the barcode you have different options 05:57 cait it might be easier to put a quick fix in and note somewhere it will work with 3.10 05:57 cait with the bug number 05:58 dcook Mmm, good idea. The fix is already in, so it would probably be a good idea to put that in our local register 05:59 dcook I think we have ~300 changes, so I'm tearing at my hair a bit here :p 05:59 cait well... heh 05:59 dcook I'm really reluctant to cut across that many, when I much rather stay current with the community 05:59 cait yeah, 300 is a lot 05:59 cait are those bigger features or more changes to display? 05:59 dcook Good question 06:00 cait for changes to the templates jquery can do lots of things - so you don't need to change the files 06:00 dcook I came here 6 months ago, but the company has been using Koha for the past 5 years 06:00 cait jquery library? 06:00 wahanui i think jquery library is found at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/JQuery_Library 06:00 cait aah 06:00 cait so it's not even changes you made 06:00 * cait sends coookies 06:00 dcook Exactly 06:00 dcook ty ^_^ 06:01 * dcook cries a little inside 06:01 cait sounds like you will need them :) 06:01 dcook I think so! 06:02 cait koha 3.8 is really different to 3.2.x - lots of new features and improvements 06:02 dcook Oh...the jQuery library is looking interesting 06:02 cait might be that not all of your changes are still needed 06:02 dcook That's what I'm hoping, but since they're not all my changes, it's hard to say sometimes :/ 06:03 dcook Fortunately, the writer is still here at the company. He's just busy with other projects 06:03 cait ah that's good then :) 06:03 cait if he still remembers :) 06:03 cait you can always come back here - still a bit silent now 06:03 cait but more people around later today 06:04 cait where are you from? 06:04 dcook I'm in Sydney, Australia, so I only have about an hour left in the work day 06:04 dcook I'll be telecommuting from Vancouver, Canada later in the year though for a few months 06:05 cait ah 06:05 cait I am in Germany - so my work day is just about to begin 06:06 dcook Always a handy part of open source :) 06:07 cait yeah, #koha is pretty much 24 hours :) 06:07 cait but weekends are a bit quiet 06:08 dcook I'm glad to hear that people take breaks ;) 06:08 dcook How common are customizations with your instance of Koha? 06:09 cait consider updating to 3.8.3 - lots of bug fixes in there 06:09 cait and 3.8.4 will be good too 06:09 cait we never did many 06:09 dcook Didn't 3.8.2 just come out? 06:09 cait we learned the lesson with another project 06:09 cait oh, you are right 06:09 dcook Ahhh 3.8.2 for stable... 06:09 cait confusing my numbers 06:10 cait we are running Koha without customizations now :) 06:11 cait there are some changes to indexing still, because that was not a solution for everyone. But I hope to get rid of that too with 3.10 and dom indexing :) 06:11 cait Koha is moving so fast, it's fun to work with. 06:18 dcook It really is. I was very excited when 3.8 came out 06:18 dcook We also do DSpace, and we try to limit our customizations to that as much as possible. I'm thinking that might be a good idea for Koha as well 06:19 dcook Quick question 06:19 dcook How do you update with the new releases. Surely, you don't do a complete re-install 06:19 cait no we don't 06:19 cait it depends a bit on the kind of installation you did in the first place 06:19 cait there are standard installations, dev installations with git, packages... 06:21 dcook I think that we did the standard installation 06:21 dcook Is the dev install the one where it runs Koha from your git clone? 06:22 cait it can 06:22 cait but it's also a different file structure 06:22 cait you can do a dev installation without git - but not sure if that makes much sense 06:22 cait I think with your customizations a dev installation with git would make sense 06:23 cait standard is not so practical for that 06:27 cait with standard you normally download the tarball, unpack it, run Makefile with the right parameters (it's been a while since I did that) 06:28 cait with git you can checkout the new version and run Makefile so it updated indexing configuration 06:28 cait it really works well 06:29 cait the database update will kick in automatically whenever your version in the database is different from the version in kohaversion.pl 06:29 cait ok, time to get to work 06:29 cait bye dcook 06:29 dcook bye cait. Thanks for your help! 06:42 reiveune hello 06:42 wahanui what's up, reiveune 06:47 ropuch Morning #koha 07:03 matts hi #koha ! 07:14 gaetan_B hello :) 07:25 kf hi #koha 07:27 francharb good morning 07:27 kf hi francharb 07:28 rangi back 08:05 * magnuse cheers for Waimate! 08:08 * kf cheers too 08:18 * magnuse cheers for Stuff too, for bringing news about libraries changing their ils ;-) 08:21 kf mveron++ :) 08:21 * kf is still catching up on mail from being away for 3 days... 08:21 mveron kf:Thanks. What for ? :-) 08:25 kf general awesomeness? :) 08:25 kf and lots of sign offs! 08:25 mveron :-) 08:27 kf good morning eythian :) 08:27 eythian howdy 08:27 wahanui hola, eythian 08:59 magnuse kia ora eythian 08:59 eythian hello 08:59 wahanui what's up, eythian 09:10 sandeepbhavsar Dear all 09:10 sandeepbhavsar kindly guide me for this error - Availability - No items Available 09:11 sandeepbhavsar i just imported the data and even getting the search through OPAC 09:11 sandeepbhavsar but all records shows that Availability - No items Available 09:11 eythian are there items? 09:12 sandeepbhavsar for every record koha shows 7 holdings 09:12 sandeepbhavsar i have done the indexing with nozebra.pl 09:13 sandeepbhavsar is there any mistake in indexing 09:13 eythian Using nozebra is strongly not recommended. 09:13 eythian Basically, it doesn't really work. 09:14 sandeepbhavsar ok then what should i do, because i really dont have any knowledge of zebra 09:14 sandeepbhavsar http://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2011-December/031485.html 09:14 sandeepbhavsar same error is face earlier also 09:15 eythian I would recommend going through the documentation about setting up zebra 09:15 eythian Because it's currently really the only way to do searching. 09:15 sandeepbhavsar are u sure that this has happened only because nozebra is used 09:16 eythian No. 09:16 kf how did you import the items? 09:16 kf it should be 1 952 field for each item 09:16 sandeepbhavsar yes i have that field 09:16 kf and 952 should at least have a b and y I think 09:17 eythian that might well be part of it too. 09:19 sandeepbhavsar I have 09:19 sandeepbhavsar =952 \\$aACC 09:19 sandeepbhavsar =952 \\$bACC 09:19 sandeepbhavsar =952 \\$g0.00 09:19 sandeepbhavsar =952 \\$oB1 09:19 sandeepbhavsar =952 \\$pB1 09:19 kf es 09:19 sandeepbhavsar =952 \\$v0.00 09:19 kf this should be one field 09:19 sandeepbhavsar =952 \\$yB 09:19 eythian that will explain why you have 7 of them 09:19 kf =952 \\$a...$b...$... 09:20 kf also make sure that ABB and B are valid codes for brnaches and itemtypes in your configuration 09:21 sandeepbhavsar yes B is for itemtype book 09:21 kf ok :) it's only something that can go wrong - so I was pointing it out 09:21 kf I think if you combine the fields into one your results should look a lot better 09:21 eythian yep 09:21 eythian but also, using nozebra is a bad idea 09:21 eythian the sooner we remove that the better 09:22 eythian wahanui: nozebra 09:22 wahanui nozebra is much slower 09:22 kf wahanui: forget nozebra 09:22 wahanui kf: I forgot nozebra 09:22 rangi and doesnt understand items 09:22 kf nozebra is deprecated and should not be used 09:22 kf nozebra 09:22 kf nozebra? 09:22 wahanui i heard nozebra was deprecated and should not be used 09:22 rangi the syspref is only there, so people can switch to zebra 09:22 sandeepbhavsar kindly guide how can i have one field 09:22 kf rangi: removing the cronjob might be also a good idea 09:22 rangi when the upgrade, it can die for 3.10 i reckon 09:22 rangi kf: it doesnt use the cronjob 09:23 eythian sandeepbhavsar: when you convert your data, you must do it differently 09:23 kf i meant the script sandeepbhavsar was using 09:23 rangi nozebra indexes when you make a change 09:23 kf nozebra.pl 09:23 eythian sandeepbhavsar: but we don't know how you're doing that, so you'll have to explain more. 09:23 rangi yes, thats not needed 09:24 rangi thats like a flush and rebuild with zebra 09:24 rangi but killing the syspref so that you cant use it would be good 09:24 eythian the patch could delete the setting to, so that it fell back to default. 09:24 rangi yep 09:24 rangi needs to warn 09:24 eythian yeah 09:25 rangi but yeah it should die, specially with the new bug 8233 09:25 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8233 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , New search engine layer - introduce solr without breaking anything else 09:25 eythian yes 09:25 rangi there's no way it will ever work with that 09:25 kf I think there is also a patch from jared soemwhere removing some of the nozebra code 09:25 wahanui okay, kf. 09:25 kf forget I think there is 09:25 kf I think there is <reply> 09:26 kf hm 09:26 eythian kf: it's funnier if you stop deprogramming wahanui 09:27 kf :P 09:28 kf I only do it if it makes no sense and is not very funny 09:28 kf see, he still does your jokes: 09:28 kf germs? 09:28 wahanui Germs originated in Germany, before rapidly spreading throughout the rest of the world. 09:28 eythian kf: but you're from Germany, how could we possibly trust your sense of humour? ;) 09:28 kf lol 09:32 kf ... wait until you get here! 09:32 kf ;) 09:47 kf hi paul_p :) 09:47 magnuse bonjour paul_p 09:52 magnuse ooh, new issue of code4lib journal! http://journal.code4lib.org/issues/issue17 10:04 paul_p good morning kf & magnuse 10:05 * paul_p is back from meeting with accountant. Phone call to banker,... not what I prefer in my job ;-) 10:11 * magnuse understands paul_p completely 10:14 Waylon hmm... how do i decrease the amount of io zebra needs to do? or increase the performance of zebra? 10:25 eythian if zebra IO is a problem for you, it might be time to upgrade that 386 ;) 10:25 eythian (I've never seen it IO bound really) 10:25 eythian well, for more than a short time when doing a complete rebuild 10:37 kf paul_p: I think fridolyn was at the first hackfest in marseille? :) 10:50 kf Happy Birthday nengard :) 10:50 kf or was it yesterday? 10:50 nengard :) thank you 10:50 nengard it's today 10:58 kf Herzlichen Glückwunsch :) 10:59 kf so shouldn't you be doing something fun with bengard? 11:03 magnuse gratulerer med dagen nengard! 11:04 nengard Tusen takk 11:04 magnuse yay! 11:04 nengard :) 11:04 nengard hehe 11:04 nengard kf we both have to wrok 11:04 nengard work 11:04 kf oh :( 11:04 nengard and he left this morning without wishing me a happy bday ? so i'm not sure he realizes the date 11:04 nengard :( 11:04 kf maybe friday? 11:04 kf or there will be a surprise? 11:05 nengard this past saturday we had a bunch of friends and family over 11:24 paul_p kf yep, fridolyn was at the 1st hackfest in Marseille 11:25 kf cool :) 11:27 drojf1 hello #koha 11:27 kf hi drojf 11:27 drojf and happy birthday nengard 11:28 nengard thanks 11:29 drojf hey kf. how is the multi-screen life? :) 11:29 kf heh it's working now 11:29 kf but laptop at home 11:29 kf now back at work :) 11:34 drojf woot! just threw mustard and mango-habanero-sauce all over myself 11:42 nengard in the aqorders table ? where is the vendor or booksellerid? 11:42 nengard oh! figured it out - it's in aqbasket 11:42 nengard okay 11:53 nengard does anyone know why you can't make an attribute repeatable after it's saved? Would me changing it at the DB level break anything? 11:53 magnuse drojf: that seems to be an over-reaction to kf being at work... 11:53 drojf :D 11:53 nengard hehe 11:55 kf nengard: not sure really 11:55 kf maybe try on a test db? 11:56 nengard yeah - was gonna do that 12:02 jcamins o/ 12:03 drojf hi jcamins 12:05 jcamins Good morning. 12:10 kf hi jcamins :) 12:31 tcohen hi #koha! 12:31 drojf hi tcohen 12:31 magnuse hiya tcohen 12:31 tcohen happy birthday nengard! 12:31 nengard :) thanks 12:32 tcohen big party coming? 12:37 drojf last IRC meeting ended at 18:45:44 UTC. so i guess we close bidding for kohacon 2013 today at the same time? 12:38 drojf nengard: will you be doing the limesurvey magic? 12:39 nengard yup 12:39 nengard tcohen - had that this past saturday 12:42 tcohen nengard :-D 12:50 ttuc hi, could anyone tell me how to get borrowers.db for my offline circulation module 12:52 jcamins You have to generate it. I think the instructions may be in the manual, though I'm not certain. 12:57 ttuc i have been able to get the csv version of the table but this .db is what am not sure. 12:57 jcamins I don't know. I don't use it, sorry. 12:58 jcamins Maybe misc/cronjobs/create_koc.pl? 12:59 ttuc i have been able to get the csv version of the table but this .db is what am not sure. 13:00 jcamins I've never heard of borrowers.csv, and I still have never user offline circulation. 13:02 kf packages 13:02 wahanui somebody said packages was at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian 13:02 jcamins ... someone else might know something about offline circulation. 13:14 mib_ebk9t3 anone aware of how to get borrowers.db for offline circulation? 13:15 kf mib_ebk9t3: maybe ask on the mailing list 13:15 kf mib_ebk9t3: and also give your version and which offline circ you are using (I think the applicaton from kyle hall?) 13:17 mib_ebk9t3 yes 13:17 jcamins I just Googled "borrowers.db koha" and got the following result: http://perldoc.koha-community.org/misc/cronjobs/create_koc_db.html 13:20 mib_ebk9t3 let me check. 13:21 jcamins I would imagine that is probably accurate, though I work mostly with reference-only libraries. 13:22 schuster Linked data authority lookup noted in the newsletter whoot! 13:23 jcamins schuster: the VIAF thing? Yeah, that's pretty amazing. 13:23 schuster During a discussion about linked data it was discussed that if the Library community is interested in something generally the open source community adopts it the Library groups find it interesting and then demand the proprietary systems include it. 13:23 schuster How true that is... jcamins - VIAF YES! 13:25 jcamins schuster: I guess the discussants elided the issue that us open source developers don't actually work for free, and therefore libraries will need to make their interest financially relevant? 13:33 schuster I think the thought there is Librarians are Innovative and as we work with our Developers in the Open source arena we get things WE want and make it happen rather than waiting for someone else to do it. 13:33 schuster jcamins - Or for a proprietary vendor to come up with the idea... Oh really come on... 13:34 jcamins schuster: I'm all for that. This is how it _should_ work. 13:34 jcamins But too many people think open source = magical little gnomes will make the program do whatever they want for free. 13:34 schuster jcamins - Yep that's why I'm here... 13:35 schuster jcamins - it's a mind shift... it took me about 2 months to figure out how it all really worked. We went with a support company initially and what "support" means is very different in open source vs proprietary 13:35 jcamins For the record, I would like some magical little gnomes that work for free. :) 13:36 schuster The benefit though was all the money we saved annually we could still carve a portion of that into development and get what we wanted and still save $60,000 a year. 13:36 schuster jcamins - I need some gnomes that ... Clean house, mow yard, do laundry, and if they could code that would be a bonus! HA HA HA.... 13:37 jcamins Ooh, house cleaning gnomes would be excellent. 13:44 jcamins Has anyone noticed problems with acqui/basketgroup.pl recently? 13:46 jcamins Never mind. 13:58 schuster jcamins - bug 7345 stripping local use fields out of marc export. Does that only work in the opac or does that work with the export utility as well in tools? 13:58 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7345 enhancement, P3, ---, jcamins, RESOLVED FIXED, Should be possible to export MARC records without private fields 14:00 jcamins It does not impact the export tool. 14:06 * jcamins wonders what ILS is used by these people who are acting shocked at the idea of an OPAC without working subject browsing. 14:06 jcamins Off the top of my head, I cannot think of a single ILS, proprietary or otherwise, that provides decent browsing capabilities. 14:08 mib_ebk9t3 i have seen this script: create_koc_db.pl but where am i supposed to run it? my koha is running on ubuntu 14:08 jcamins Did you read the perldoc I sent you? 14:08 jcamins It looks like you are supposed to run it from cron. 14:09 jcamins At that point, you will need to download the borrowers.db file to the computer where you are doing offline circulation. 14:09 jcamins Koha will not set that up for you automatically for security reasons. 14:09 jcamins Answer: they use some sort of horrifying custom (I think) ILS written in Visual Studio which hardly functions at all. 14:23 datadoctor Bon anniversaire! 14:29 jcamins Ouch! 14:29 jcamins [off] "We are looking to change our OPAC from open source to EOS" 14:31 nengard what?? 14:31 jcamins nengard: you'll get the mail in about five minutes. You're on ACAT too. :) 14:31 jcamins Wait, no, this isn't ACAT. 14:31 nengard autocat 14:31 nengard hehe 14:31 jcamins So, you won't get the mail. 14:32 nengard what's acat? 14:32 jcamins Autocat. 14:32 jcamins But it isn't on autocat. 14:32 nengard i'm so confused right now 14:32 jcamins The message I just quoted is from a mailing list you are not on. 14:33 jcamins However, it was in the middle of a dozen autocat messages, so I got confused, and told you you'd receive the message. 14:33 jcamins You probably won't because it's a local NYC list. 14:35 jcamins So you can ignore everything after the "Ouch" and quote. :) 14:37 jcamins [off] Libwebcats has told me which "open source" ILS they are using. 14:42 mib_ebk9t3 i have added the create_koc_db.pl script. where does koha save the borrowers.db 15:02 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 7304 followup DBRev number <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=e73058e469fc8a0dcc3babc81218703882d382fa> / Bug 7304: More permissions for budgets <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=203757e353cbbb2add934523fdbd7113c6180207> / Bug 7905: Follow up - Multi-line subscription notes <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=51cdcd91f744ff95b442bd 15:05 jenkins_koha Starting build #768 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS) 15:08 reiveune bye 15:19 * mveron ...has to go, good evening to everybody! 15:19 mveron quit 15:33 vfernandes hi there.... guys where is the merge_authorities.pl script? 15:35 vfernandes to use dontmerge - authorities system preference 15:36 * kf tries summoning jcamins 15:36 jcamins Poof! 15:36 kf have you checked the misc directory and its subdirectories? 15:36 kf oh cool :) it worked! 15:36 vfernandes yes ite sould be on bin/cronjobs but nothing 15:37 jcamins misc/migration_tools/merge_authority.pl 15:37 vfernandes merge_authorities.pl sould be different then merge_authority.pl 15:37 jcamins I should warn you I've never used it, though. 15:37 jcamins Hm. 15:37 jcamins You're right. 15:38 * jcamins did a find for "merge*" 15:38 vfernandes merge_authorities.pl should update records that uses one authority which was updated 15:39 vfernandes dontmerge - do/don't automatically update attached biblios when changing an authority record. If this is off, please ask your administrator to enable the merge_authorities.pl cronjob. 15:39 jcamins The script does not exist. 15:39 jcamins I'd file a bug. 15:39 jcamins It must've been deleted. 15:41 vfernandes tell me something 15:41 vfernandes when you update a authority the linked records are updated? 15:41 jcamins It should be if you have dontmerge set properly. 15:42 jcamins However, I don't edit authorities. 15:42 jcamins I replace them. 15:42 vfernandes but dontmerge needs the script :/ 15:42 jcamins clrh++ 15:43 jcamins vfernandes: no, if you set it the other way, you don't need a script. 15:43 jcamins That's the entire point of dontmerge. 15:44 vfernandes so if don't merge is set to "don't" updating a authority updates the record? 15:44 vfernandes i'm confusing.... 15:45 vfernandes only sh*t.... i'm so dumb sometimes 15:45 vfernandes lol 15:45 kf clrh++ 15:45 vfernandes the script is only needed when it is off = don't 15:45 jcamins Right. Or on. I always get the two confused because "dontmerge" is such a bad name for a syspref. ;) 15:46 vfernandes you bet... :D 15:46 kf like nozebra 15:48 jcamins You know what I need? 15:48 jcamins I need a test that creates a 3.0.0 database, runs updatedatabase on it, then compares the result to a database created by kohastructure.sql. 15:48 vfernandes thanks jcamins and kf for the help... sometimes it's better stop a little and read the description well :D 15:49 jcamins :) 15:49 jcamins That one is a staggeringly confusing syspref. 15:49 vfernandes sure is... 15:50 kf yep it is 15:52 eythian jcamins: that would be relatively easy to do 15:53 jcamins eythian: I keep on thinking that. 15:53 jcamins Then I sit down to try and realize that I can't figure it out at all. 15:53 * jcamins nominates eythian to do it. :) 15:54 eythian install fresh 3.8, dump the schema, install 3.0, run koha-update-schema, dump the schema, diff 15:54 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #768: UNSTABLE in 49 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/768/ 15:54 jenkins_koha * jonathan.druart: Bug 5345: DataTables integration in acquisition module  15:54 jenkins_koha * adrien.saurat: Bug 7905: display serial notes on several lines 15:54 jenkins_koha * Katrin.Fischer.83: Bug 7905: Follow up - Multi-line subscription notes 15:54 jenkins_koha * julian.maurice: Bug 7304: More permissions for budgets 15:54 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5345 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , DataTables in Koha 15:54 jenkins_koha * paul.poulain: Bug 7304 followup DBRev number 15:54 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7905 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, Pushed to Master , Multi-line notes are displayed on one line in Staff Serials page 15:54 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7304 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Pushed to Master , Working on funds ergonomic display and funds management by multi librarians 15:54 eythian just copy-paste what I wrote into a terminal, it'll be fine :D 15:59 jcamins eythian: the problem is that doesn't work, because the names of foreign keys and indexes (and their order) may not be identical. 16:00 eythian then write something that parses the SQL and normalises things :) 16:00 jcamins eythian: right, see, that's the point where I realize I don't quite get it. 16:02 jcamins There's mysqldiff, but I find it somewhat perplexing. 16:05 kf yay 16:05 * kf got to the web installer in her new koha sandbox :) 16:06 jcamins :) 16:07 kf some day I will correct the typo on the button 16:07 jcamins What typo on what button? 16:07 kf 'import' instead of 'Import' 16:07 * eythian attempts to relearn how debian's perl team does everything after they've gone and changed it all since I last did stuff. 16:07 eythian Want to get some of the koha deps into debian before freeze. 16:08 kf eythian++ :) 16:08 jcamins eythian++ 16:09 kf ok, now zebra :) 16:11 * jcamins runs the regression test against the import batch functionality. 16:12 kf :) 16:12 kf jcamins++ 16:13 jcamins And, good news! Bib import still works fine. 16:13 jcamins :D 16:13 jcamins Now I just need to add a test plan for the user interface. 16:14 jcamins I don't suppose my test plan can be "import an authority"? 16:14 eythian jcamins: cucumber or something? 16:14 jcamins eythian: huh? 16:16 * eythian finds references 16:17 jcamins Folks, I've said it before and I will say it again: we need more regression tests! 16:17 eythian @notauthed 16:17 eythian Scenario: Login without any details 16:17 eythian Given I am on the login page 16:17 eythian When I press "Login »" 16:17 eythian Then the "Username" field should have errors 16:17 eythian And the "Password" field should have errors 16:17 eythian stuff like that 16:17 jcamins Ooh. 16:17 jcamins No, I wrote it using Test::WWW::Mechanize. 16:17 jcamins And http-recorder. 16:18 eythian http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/libtest-cukes-perl 16:18 jcamins Ooh. 16:20 * eythian only heard of this today 16:20 eythian hello melia 16:20 melia hi eythian 16:20 jcamins I think I would need more examples of using that to understand it. 16:23 kf zebra - done 16:23 kf cronjobs 16:23 wahanui cronjobs are essential 16:23 jcamins They can be. 16:24 jcamins Okay, what's step 2 for testing importing authority records? 16:24 jcamins I feel like this is something that really just requires the tester to know what the expect. 16:25 jcamins "Make sure it will import an authority record" pretty much describes what needs to be tested. 16:25 jcamins If it doesn't do that in the way the tester expected, it doesn't work. 16:25 jcamins But I don't know exactly what the tester's workflow is, and that's why they're testing it and not me. 16:26 jcamins Comments? 16:26 wahanui Comments are turned on 16:26 jcamins Thanks, wahanui. 16:26 wahanui jcamins: no worries 16:26 kf lol 16:26 jcamins Ta, wahanui 16:26 wahanui jcamins: sorry... 16:26 kf jcamins: the tester will come up with a test plan for this 16:26 jcamins kf: yeah, that's what I thought. 16:26 jcamins Thanks. 16:26 kf ... says the person that volunteered testing :) 16:27 kf hm person who volunteered to test? 16:27 * kf should go home 16:27 jcamins I have instructions for using the command line tools, because they only support a single workflow. 16:27 jcamins The second was correct. :) 16:27 SJeffery Morning Melia :) 16:27 melia morning! 16:27 wahanui hmmm... morning is a state of mind. or whenever the cat wants breakfast. 16:28 SJeffery Is everyone at Bywater recovered from ALA? 16:28 * kf creates a new snapshot "koha installed" 16:28 jcamins SJeffery: did you find a Koha gathering? 16:28 SJeffery ok, who wrote the bib record import script and neglected to add oclc number and lc numbers as matching rules, grrr. 16:29 SJeffery No, never did. I ended up being way too busy to organize anything. 16:29 jcamins SJeffery: actually, fixing that is kind of a side effect of this authority matching development I'm doing. 16:29 jcamins I was trying to figure out how to go about installing them on updates about ten seconds before you said that. 16:30 SJeffery Did we have some sort of vulcan mind meld in the past or something? 16:30 jcamins lol 16:30 jcamins I think it's kind of a natural thing to get frustrated with any time you're thinking about importing. 16:31 jcamins I'm thinking if I call the matching rules OCLC-SAMPLE and LCCN-SAMPLE, that'll make it clear for those (few) libraries who have OCLC and LCCN matching rules already. 16:31 jcamins And I can add a random suffix if those names are taken, too. 16:32 kf jcamins: :) 16:32 kf you could check for the field number 16:32 kf and don't update if they already have one 16:32 kf maybe? 16:32 jcamins I thought about that, but that won't work because some people use 001 for OCLC number instead of 035. 16:32 kf ... knows some of those people 16:33 * jcamins hopes that you have told them that it's a mistake. 16:33 kf um. 16:33 * jcamins hopes you will go forth and tell them that immediately. 16:34 kf you know how it works here :) I was not referring to oclc number but to the unon catalog ID 16:34 jcamins That's different. 16:34 kf I think in fact we also have oclc numbers in 035 16:34 jcamins Union catalog ID # is *exactly* what 001 is for. 16:34 jcamins The 001 *may* include the OCLC# for records downloaded directly from OCLC. 16:34 gaetan_B bye ! 16:35 jcamins Bye. 16:35 jcamins (and yes, I have seen instances where it didn't) 16:35 jcamins Also, a lot of libraries use Z39.50 for downloading records. 16:35 jcamins Even records that are in OCLC. 16:36 * jcamins glares at the RLIN/Worldcat merge. 16:37 kf ok, I can't follow :) 16:37 kf or only in parts 16:37 jcamins kf: RLIN used to allow libraries to choose whichever record they wanted. 16:37 kf what is RLIN? 16:37 kf or was? 16:38 jcamins Research Library I Network. 16:38 jcamins I think. 16:38 jcamins So the big PCC libraries would only download records from other big PCC libraries. 16:38 jcamins With OCLC, the master record may not be as good as the record at, say, BYU. 16:38 jcamins So you might want to use Z39.50 to download the record directly from BYU. 16:39 kf hm 16:39 kf interesting 16:39 jcamins It *does* have an OCLC number, and you do want it to overlay the less good record. 16:39 jcamins But the 001 is now wrong. 16:39 jcamins Rather, the 001 no longer has the OCLC number. 16:39 jcamins 'Cause that's not what the 001 is for. 16:40 jcamins There will be a quiz on this later for those of you in the US. :P 16:43 jcamins Oohoo! 16:43 jcamins *Woohoo! 16:43 jcamins My work on bug 2060 is so advanced it hasn't even happened yet. 16:43 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2060 enhancement, P3, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , Ability to import Authorities from Staff Client 16:43 SJeffery Perhaps...perhaps there should be a standard set of matching rules plus the option to select other and custom-define the field? 16:44 jcamins SJeffery: well, the problem is our standard set of matching rules consists of ISBN and ISSN. 16:44 jcamins That's it. 16:44 jcamins Never mind the fact that ISBN is practically useless for matching MARC records. 16:45 eythian well, still have ssh access to git.debian.org, that's a good start. 16:45 jcamins It's possible to create new matching rules, but it's a nuisance. 16:45 schuster Who's standard in Koha currently isn't is only LCCN or OCLC? ISBN matching is exact only and doesn't take into account 13/10 modification. 16:45 jcamins On the subject of which, we could fix that easily with DOM indexing. 16:45 SJeffery Shouldn't there be a matching function/template/whatever the heck you call it that can be used across the application that would allow flexibility 16:46 jcamins SJeffery: there is, sort of. 16:46 jcamins Admin->Matching rules. 16:46 jcamins Right now it doesn't work with authorities. 16:46 schuster jcamins - I will refrain from discussion on the ISBN index matching issue as I had it working in a previous version. 16:46 jcamins schuster: heh. I'll see how they did it. 16:47 jcamins My goodness. 16:47 * jcamins sees how they did it. 16:47 schuster I have 2 patches on my old boxes that I don't know why never got contributed to community... 16:48 schuster uh oh... that doesn't sound good. 16:49 nengard_lunch anybody who's good at XSLT want to help out on bug 7441 16:49 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7441 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, In Discussion , search results showing wrong branch? 16:57 eythian nengard_lunch: added 2c, hopefully it's useful. 16:58 eythian 2p I guess at the moment 17:03 kf eythian: I think it's something about the structure 17:03 kf choose / when probably won't work either 17:03 eythian kf: I think it's that xsl:if can only be used inside certain things. 17:03 kf yep 17:03 kf exactly 17:04 jcamins <xsl:if> can be used anywhere so far as I know. 17:04 kf jcamins: you can join in and make a suggestion ;) 17:05 * jcamins will offer any feedback he comes up with before 13:10, at which point he is going back to his to-do list. ;) 17:05 jcamins Oh. 17:05 jcamins There's the problem. 17:05 kf xsl:key is a top-level element 17:06 kf I think you can't use it there 17:06 jcamins Right. 17:06 * jcamins hadn't read the context. 17:06 kf :P 17:06 eythian kf: the error is "element if element if only allowed within a template, variable or param", which is what I was basing that on 17:06 jcamins I'm pretty sure <xsl:choose> won't work either, as kf said. 17:06 eythian but it's been a while since I've meddled with XSLT 17:06 kf I think we all have the same idea 17:06 kf we are only phrasing it differently 17:07 kf jcamins: I agree 17:07 kf I think xslt is weird about variables and things, some things just don't work 17:07 * jcamins phrases it the same way kf does, when he reads the question. :) 17:07 eythian looking deeper I see xsl:if at a higher level than I initially did. 17:07 eythian it's not so much weird as just declarative. 17:07 kf ok, so being declarative is weird then :) 17:07 kf nah. I should finish this mail 17:08 eythian someone needs to run over those xsl files with xmllint and save the reformatted version, they're hard to read. 17:08 kf jcamins: you stil have 3 minutes? :) 17:08 jcamins They sure are! 17:08 kf yep they are 17:08 kf and they are insane in parts 17:08 jcamins use items:$OPACResultsByBranchXSLT. 17:08 jcamins At least, that's my recommendation. 17:09 kf put it in the comments :) you still have 2 mins! 17:09 jcamins Also, XSLT is declarative not functional. The variable has to be set before it's used. 17:10 melia can I ask a silly question about bug 8110? 17:10 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8110 blocker, P1 - high, ---, kyle.m.hall, Failed QA , Fines accruing on closed days 17:10 jcamins Wait... the variable has to be set. 17:10 jcamins Period. 17:11 melia Julian's note says "this is not working but this is not related to the patch." that part confuses me. I'm not sure if the next step is for someone to follow the test plan that Ian/Chris put on the ticket and sign off the patch, or if Julian is saying that the patch doesn't fix the problem 17:12 jcamins Updated. 17:13 jcamins Laconically. 17:13 jcamins :) 17:30 nengard question - in 3.6 anyone remember if when there was a hold that needed transferring did it print a transfer slip or a hold/transfer slip? 17:31 kf not sure 17:32 nengard k 17:59 wizzyrea it does a transfer to x on hold for y slip 17:59 wizzyrea I think 18:07 cait back 18:08 jcamins o/ 18:09 cait :) 18:09 cait jenkins unstable ? 18:09 jcamins ! 18:09 jcamins !status 18:09 jcamins jenkins_koha: status 18:09 jenkins_koha status of all projects: 18:09 jenkins_koha 3_6_Packages: last build: 16 (3 days 4 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/3_6_Packages/16/ 18:09 jenkins_koha 3_8_packages: last build: 12 (1 day 14 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/3_8_packages/12/ 18:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.2.x: last build: 36 (6 mo 26 days ago): UNSTABLE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.2.x/36/ 18:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.4.x: last build: 80 (4 mo 7 days ago): UNSTABLE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.4.x/80/ 18:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.6.x: last build: 53 (3 days 4 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.6.x/53/ 18:09 jenkins_koha Koha_3.8.x: last build: 74 (1 day 15 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/74/ 18:09 jenkins_koha Koha_Docs: last build: 97 (2 hr 19 min ago): FAILURE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/97/ 18:09 jenkins_koha Koha_master: last build: 768 (3 hr 4 min ago): UNSTABLE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/768/ 18:09 jenkins_koha Master_Packages: last build: 70 (2 days 0 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Master_Packages/70/ 18:09 jcamins 3.2.x and 3.4.x are allowed to be unstable. 18:10 jcamins Oh, master is too. 18:10 cait master 18:10 jcamins That's not so good. 18:10 jcamins Hm. 18:12 cait hm. 18:12 cait hi mveron :) 18:12 cait what's for dinner tonight? 18:12 mveron Streuselkuchen :-) 18:12 cait oh yum 18:13 * mveron ...sends cait some Streuselkuchen 18:13 cait thx :) 18:13 drojf that's a dinner? 18:13 jcamins Mmm. 18:13 cait why not? :) 18:13 jcamins It is for me. 18:13 jcamins :D 18:13 mveron Had not time for cooking... 18:13 drojf :) 18:13 * cait was pondering bread with nutella :P 18:14 cait but first - the laundry ... 18:14 cait bbiab 18:16 * mveron ponders what's going wrong with Bug 7621, works here but not for delaye 18:16 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7621 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, veron, Signed Off , Circulation: Match age restriction of title with borrower's age without using categories 18:47 rhcl @seen wizzyrea 18:47 huginn rhcl: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 47 minutes and 55 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> I think 18:47 rhcl ping wizzyrea 18:49 * jcamins concludes that wizzyrea probably is, since she was thinking 48 minutes ago. 18:50 rhcl 3M is offering an eBook service; they have "deeply" integrated it with Polaris, and working to do the same with other ILSs, including Sirsi.... 18:50 rhcl has anybody reflected on this integration w/ Koha? 18:50 * jcamins wonders when they're going to be contributing to Koha. 18:50 jcamins I heard about it vaguely, but didn't pay much attention. 18:50 rhcl I think they would entertain some interest on the subject 18:50 rhcl we had a webcon with the rep yesterday 18:51 rhcl 3M seems to have a much much simpler, easier user interface (vs OverDrive), but it's expensive 18:52 rhcl the "deep" integration apparently refers to having ebooks listed in the ILS, and checked out via the library's OPAC exactly like a paper book, without leaving the OPAC 18:53 jcamins It seems to me that Koha libraries would be more likely to be interested if the service were well-integrated (same as Polaris and Sirsi users, of course). 18:53 rhcl otherwise it apparently works fine w/ SIP, but takes the patron out of the OPAC to the 3M site 18:53 jcamins If it works fine with SIP, that's still a step ahead of Overdrive half the time... 18:53 rhcl yea, but I think it's a "chicken and egg" problem. 3M would be interested if the libraries expressed and interest, and <->. 18:54 jcamins I would agree. 18:54 rhcl Yes, it completly bypasses the Adobe fifty-click download/install crap. 18:55 rhcl the rep mentioned that Kansas was doing something w/ 3M, so was going to check w/ wizzyrea 18:57 jcamins @later tell rangi Could you please kick Jill Griffiths off the firstname.lastname@example.org mailing list? Her autoresponder is going to be spamming the list once a day for who knows how long. 18:57 huginn jcamins: The operation succeeded. 18:57 rhcl OK, my quantum is expiring and the CPU scheduler is ready to end my cycle time...it was fun...ltr 19:11 abracadabra help me please: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1063060/ 19:12 jcamins abracadabra: sorry, this is the channel for Koha. 19:12 jcamins You can download Koha from koha-community.org. 19:12 jcamins The software you are using is only supported by LibLime, and as far as I know only used by their customers. 19:14 abracadabra koha is open ILS? 19:14 jcamins Koha is an open source ILS. 19:15 jcamins You downloaded a fork made by LibLime. 19:16 jcamins That is, you downloaded a package that contains a version of the fork. 19:16 jcamins Sorry, that first sentence was a little incomprehensible. 19:17 drojf abracadabra: the koha website is at http://www.koha-community.org/ you can get the latest version of koha there 19:20 wizzyrea hi- i'm back now 19:21 wizzyrea what about 3M? 19:21 jcamins They have a new ebook platform. 19:21 wizzyrea oh yea 3m cloud library 19:21 wizzyrea kansas uses it :P 19:22 jcamins Greg was wondering about your experiences, and whether Koha integration was planned. 19:22 wizzyrea define "integration" 19:22 jcamins He said that they're doing this integration where patrons can actually check out books directly from the OPAC. 19:22 wizzyrea hmm we haven't seen that 19:23 wizzyrea and afaik there isn't any particular movement in that direction. Certainly, you can link to the 3M from your ebook record 19:23 jcamins Well, I think the question was more "is this something you are demanding?" ;) 19:27 jcamins abracada1ra: I'm not sure if you saw the messages earlier, but if not, you should look at koha-community.org which is the Koha website, and where you can download the current version of Koha from. 19:30 drojf git 101/db problem. i have my changes, all works fine. i want to continue to work on it but do git pull first. looks all fine except for a conflict in updatedatabase.pl. i change the file so it looks right but forget that i of course already did my "xxx" db update last time. i get an error message after the db update for duplicate db entry. now opac is in maintenance mode. what do i do? 19:31 jcamins drojf: run updatedatabase, then go back to the OPAC. 19:31 jcamins :) 19:31 jcamins Ignore the duplicate error message. 19:31 drojf tried that, did not work 19:32 jcamins drojf: you're not refreshing the OPAC, are you? 19:32 jcamins 'Cause you have to hit "Back" when you're looking at the maintenance page. ;) 19:33 drojf ah. im using the plack opac. i should probably reload that 19:33 jcamins Oh, yes. 19:34 drojf yeah all there 19:34 drojf :) 19:34 drojf so in general i just leave my db update in the file as the last one to do and ignore the error after a git pull? 19:34 jcamins Right. 19:35 drojf excellent. thanks 19:35 jcamins I usually run updatedatabase from the command line, too, so I don't have to worry about getting the maintenance message on the OPAC. 19:36 drojf that sounds wise, i'll adopt that 19:38 jcamins Also, I don't do development under Plack 'cause then I have to remember to restart it. 19:39 drojf heh yes. but since i actually still work on the raspi it is painfully slow to test things without plack 19:39 abracada1ra jcamins: ok, i downloaded and install now 19:39 abracada1ra on ubuntu 10 19:40 jcamins Ubuntu... 10.04? 19:41 drojf that is pretty old. like, releaqsed in april 2010 ;) 19:41 drojf released even 19:41 jcamins 12.04 is the new LTS release. 19:42 jcamins That said, I am boycotting Ubuntu since my disastrous experiments with it a few weeks ago. 19:42 drojf jcamins: did you try to upgrade it? 19:42 jcamins drojf: no, I installed 12.04 from scratch, and learned that MySQL included anonymous logins by default. 19:42 drojf that got me off ubuntu. NO upgrade ever worked. it just took much longer than a new installation to finally fail and make me do a new installation 19:43 drojf oh that sounds interesting 19:43 jcamins "Interesting"? 19:43 wizzyrea interesting? 19:43 wizzyrea oh he doesnt' say it anymore! 19:43 wizzyrea interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad 19:43 wizzyrea interesting? 19:43 wahanui i guess interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad 19:44 drojf it was more a scary "interesting" 19:45 jcamins Ah. 19:46 abracada1ra hey 19:46 abracada1ra i need help for this error 19:46 abracada1ra http://paste.ubuntu.com/1063112/ 19:46 jcamins I have never seen anything like that, but it clearly has something to do with LibXML. 19:47 jcamins Did you install the prerequisites? 19:47 abracada1ra yes and test its ok 19:47 abracada1ra look 19:47 abracada1ra root@ult-dev1:/home/ult/Download/koha-3.8.2# misc/sax_parser_print.pl 19:47 abracada1ra Koha wants something like: XML::LibXML::SAX::Parser=HASH(0x81fe220) 19:47 abracada1ra You have: XML::LibXML::SAX::Parser=HASH(0x8bd18c0) 19:47 abracada1ra Looks good. 19:48 jcamins Run koha_perl_deps.pl -m and copy the output into paste.koha-community.org 19:50 abracada1ra ok 19:59 abracada1ra jcamins: http://paste.koha-community.org/8 19:59 jcamins There's the problem. 20:00 jcamins You don't have XML::LibXSLT. 20:00 abracada1ra how i install 2 modules? 20:00 jcamins sudo apt-get install --reinstall libxml-perl libxml-libxslt-perl 20:00 abracada1ra required 20:01 drojf can someone explain what the difference between 856 (marc21/unimarc) subfields $h and $l might be? 20:01 drojf $h Processor of request: The username, or processor of the request; generally the data which precedes the at sign ("@") in the host address. Not repeatable. 20:01 drojf $l Logon/login General-use logon/login strings which do not require special security. Not repeatable. 20:01 jcamins And then you'll need to install Template::Plugin::HtmlToText. I forget the package. Let me check. 20:02 jcamins Oh, drat. 20:02 jcamins That one isn't available in .deb, other than from me. 20:02 jcamins You can cpan it. 20:02 jcamins Oh, and you're on 10.04. 20:02 jcamins You'll need to cpan it. 20:02 jcamins cpan Template::Plugin::HtmlToText 20:03 jcamins drojf: to be honest, I am not sure. 20:04 drojf loc even explains "An account number required for login may also be indicated. For many general-use File Transfer Protocol servers, access is gained by entering the string anonymous." for $l. that is exactly what $h is too 20:05 jcamins Hehe. 20:05 drojf maybe i should check for both, use the one that is there and if both fields are filled with different values, explode 20:05 * jcamins returns to magnuse's refrain: MARC must die. 20:05 jcamins Makes sense to me. 20:05 drojf :) 20:06 abracada1ra jcamins: please look this: http://paste.koha-community.org/9 20:06 schuster When using batch delete of items does it move them to the deleteditems table still? 20:07 cait drojf: first question? 20:07 wahanui "What are you trying to do?" "What is the goal?" or "What problem are you experiencing?" 20:08 jcamins Oh boy. 20:08 jcamins abracada1ra: I think there is probably something wrong with your system. 20:08 drojf abracada1ra: you should consider http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.8_on_Debian_Squeeze 20:09 jcamins drojf: on Ubuntu 10.04, installing 3.8 with packages is going to be close to as painful as installing it without. 20:09 drojf NO 20:09 drojf install squeeze 20:09 jcamins And upgrading from 10.04 to 11.10 or greater is just going to break everything anyway. 20:09 drojf then use packages 20:09 jcamins drojf: oh, yeah, _that_ is a good idea. 20:09 jcamins abracada1ra: listen to drojf. He is wise. :) 20:09 drojf i thought the title saying debian squeeze would give that away :) 20:09 jcamins lol 20:10 drojf but you are right 20:10 drojf cait: i try to guess what subfields somebody would fill in 856 with what values that might be relevant to video(audio streaming 20:10 cait oh 20:10 abracada1ra jcamins: version apt install 1.7 and koha need 1.59 ... version problem? 20:10 cait drojf: not many ideas about that :) 20:11 drojf abracada1ra: koha does not need a special apt version 20:11 drojf that sounds very strange at least 20:11 jcamins abracada1ra: no, the problem is that it isn't visible to Koha at all. 20:11 abracada1ra omg 20:11 jcamins drojf: XML::LibXSLT version. 20:11 abracada1ra my system have problem? 20:11 drojf cait: i have most of it 20:11 jcamins abracada1ra: I fear so. When did you set up the OS on it? 20:12 jcamins cait: make drojf show you his demo if he hasn't yet. 20:12 drojf cait: its even the same mostly in unimarc and marc21. only some differences. of course for fields i wanted to use for html5 attributes :/ 20:13 abracada1ra jcamins: recently 20:13 abracada1ra i install eclipse, apache, and koha 20:13 abracada1ra php mysql... 20:13 jcamins abracada1ra: why did you install Ubuntu 10.04? 20:13 drojf abracada1ra: do you use the server for anything else yet? 20:15 abracada1ra my notebook the company for testing, who else was installed, the support 20:15 abracada1ra te support man install this 20:15 abracada1ra for my workspace programing php 20:16 abracada1ra and now i test koha here... and vufind 20:17 abracada1ra debian squeeze is recommended for koha? 20:17 abracada1ra jcamins: drojf 20:17 drojf yes. you can setup koha with packages very easily there 20:17 jcamins abracada1ra: yes, definitely. 20:17 drojf und updates are easy too 20:17 drojf and 20:20 abracada1ra and now? What do I do? cry? 20:21 jcamins abracada1ra: unfortunately, there appears to be something seriously wrong with LibXML on your system. In your situation, I would just reinstall the OS (but use Debian Squeeze because it's a lot easier). 20:21 drojf abracada1ra: dont cry, call the it guy and get debian squeeze 20:22 drojf or do it yourself if you can/ are allowed to 20:22 abracada1ra i have change on my xml conf 20:24 abracada1ra the problem in package 20:24 abracada1ra correct 20:25 abracada1ra very thanks for your help jcamins and drojf 20:25 jcamins abracada1ra: it is unlikely the problem is the changes that you were instructed to make to your XML configuration. 20:26 abracada1ra i show the change 20:26 abracada1ra vim /etc/perl/XML/SAX/ParserDetails.ini 20:26 abracada1ra add 20:27 abracada1ra [XML::LibXML::SAX::Parser] 20:27 abracada1ra http://xml.org/sax/features/namespaces = 1 20:27 abracada1ra in bottom of file 20:28 jcamins Yeah, that shouldn't be enough to break it. 20:28 jcamins Right. It's a much bigger problem than that could have called. :( 20:28 jcamins *caused 20:29 abracada1ra ok 20:30 abracada1ra i use this manual 20:30 abracada1ra http://clean-clouds.com/2011/12/22/open-source-ils-installation-guide-for-koha-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts-with-mysql-5/ 20:31 drojf that blog post keeps up sending people with problems over 20:32 jcamins It does indeed. 20:33 jcamins I wonder who that is. 20:33 jcamins And if we could get him/her to point out that the instructions maintained by the community are more up-to-date. 20:34 wizzyrea it's not *that* old, december 2011 20:34 drojf yes 20:34 drojf wizzyrea 20:34 wahanui I LIKE SCIENCE 20:34 drojf i just saw that 20:34 drojf that is strange 20:35 abracada1ra jcamins: bad manual? 20:35 jcamins wizzyrea: yeah, but it's suggesting that people install Jaunty, which is from 2009. 20:35 jcamins abracada1ra: yes, better to A) install Debian, and B) use the current instructions where are included with Koha. 20:36 wizzyrea i'm not saying it's right, just that it's not that old ;) 20:36 abracada1ra jcamins: US friend in freenode.org #vufind recomend to me liblime koha 20:36 jcamins Yeah, that's what makes it so noteworthy that s/he recommends installing a version of Ubuntu that's three years out of date. 20:37 jcamins abracada1ra: I can't recommend, because *no one* will help you with it. 20:37 jcamins Unless you want to pay LibLime. 20:37 abracada1ra jcamins: i find manual google... and blog result 20:37 wizzyrea well, liblime will help you with it, for a fee. A large fee. 20:37 abracada1ra jcamins: later i join in #koha in freenode.org 20:37 drojf you can't spell freedom with fee 20:37 drojf :P 20:37 abracada1ra and telme for this channel 20:38 jcamins wizzyrea: fair enough. 20:38 wizzyrea liblime ILS is based on Koha, but it's not what we support 20:38 jcamins abracada1ra: they were mistaken about LibLime Koha being the open source project. That's all. :) 20:39 abracada1ra jcamins: this process of searching I have broken my system 20:40 jcamins My guess would be that there was a problem after your IT guy installed it. 20:40 drojf is that the official vufind channel? 20:40 abracada1ra jcamins: the result of the google liblime Koha appears before the Koha open community 20:40 jcamins abracada1ra: yes, it's unfortunate. :( 20:40 abracada1ra :( 20:41 wizzyrea they stole our domain a few years ago. 20:41 wizzyrea it's very unfortunate. 20:41 abracada1ra and comunity website dont have link for IRC support 20:41 wizzyrea … not true, actually 20:41 abracada1ra this would greatly facilitate the installation of software 20:41 wizzyrea http://koha-community.org/support/ 20:41 abracada1ra for newbies 20:41 jcamins http://koha-community.org/support/ 20:42 jcamins Sorry, wizzyrea. 20:42 jcamins :) 20:42 abracada1ra hmm 20:42 abracada1ra ok 20:42 abracada1ra nice 20:43 abracada1ra nnow talked with those who understand, I make the correct process of installation 20:48 rangi jcamins: done 20:49 jcamins rangi: thanks. 20:49 jcamins I was annoyed yesterday, and more annoyed today, so by tomorrow I was going to be downright grouchy. ;) 20:49 rangi Heh 20:49 * rangi just checked in at airport off to waimate today 20:50 rangi @wunder waimate, nz 20:50 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Oamaru North, Oamaru, New Zealand is 8.3°C (8:48 AM NZST on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: -1.0°C. Windchill: 8.0°C. Pressure: 29.59 in 1002 hPa (Rising). 20:50 cait safe travels and good morning rangi 20:52 drojf i thought i would write a comment for that outdated blog post, but it seems i would have to allow 10-20 other domains to embed stuff to get the form. i hate this 20:54 wizzyrea O.o doh 20:56 wizzyrea interesting the instructions aren't for LLILS, they do point you to download the community version 20:56 jcamins Well, that's something. 20:58 jcamins Woohoo! I got this working! 20:58 jcamins Well, sort of. 20:59 kathryn morning all :) 21:00 cait morning kathryn :) 21:00 kathryn hey cait! 21:10 jcamins There must be a better way to choose which entry is selected than a dozen if statements. 21:11 jcamins (in a select box) 21:12 jcamins Anyone? 21:13 cait switch? 21:13 cait not sure what you want to do... 21:13 jcamins I have a <select> with 9 <options> 21:13 jcamins I would like the option that was previously selected to be selected when the page loads. 21:14 cait aren't there a lot of examples for that in koha? 21:14 cait previously selected - what do you mean by that? 21:14 cait a saved value? 21:14 jcamins Right. 21:15 jcamins We seem to use [% IF %]... I think for translations reasons. 21:15 jcamins I'm looking for another example now. 21:16 jcamins We do things like this: [% IF ( limit == 10 ) %]<option value ="10" selected="selected">10 titles</option>[% ELSE %]<option value="10">10 titles</option>[% END %] 21:16 cait yes 21:16 cait you don't want to put the if inside of the <option> tag 21:17 cait why not pass the selected value wth the loop? 21:17 cait I think I have seen that 21:17 cait and in the loop it checks for selected = 1 and then it's only one if else construct 21:17 cait if that makes any sense 21:18 jcamins Which I will do, but it's so much duplicated code. 21:18 jcamins It feels like there should be a construction that does this for me. 21:18 * jcamins makes one up. 21:18 jcamins Please hold. 21:18 jcamins The options are defined in the template. 21:18 jcamins That was the entire point of bug 7943. 21:18 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7943 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Master , Untranslatable strings in OPAC's authority search 21:18 jcamins :) 21:18 jcamins It does, and that was my first thought. 21:19 jcamins Is there anything that is included in ABSOLUTELY every page? 21:19 jcamins doc-head-open. 21:19 rangi Make more includes 21:19 rangi And use them. Thats what we need to do 21:20 * jcamins would like a form-blocks.inc 21:20 rangi With the tt caching we have its super fast 21:20 * jcamins boldly creates one. 21:20 jcamins (with rangi's encouragement;) 21:20 rangi It could contain a view 21:21 jcamins A view? 21:21 rangi And the formblock(stuff) in the tt 21:21 jcamins I was thinking a block. 21:21 jcamins Hm, yeah, maybe a view is better. 21:21 jcamins Good call. 21:21 jcamins A view it is. 21:21 cait :) 21:22 rangi Yay :) 21:22 rangi U know what 21:22 jcamins Wait... VIEW API is expected to change. 21:23 rangi Ahh in that case block it is 21:23 jcamins Yup. :) 21:23 jcamins Which is a shame, 'cause I've decided that the VIEW would be nicer. 21:23 rangi You know what I want 21:24 rangi A switch that puts a watermark on every page 21:24 jcamins I'm not sure how to do that, but it's an intriguing idea. 21:24 jcamins Waylon could use it. 21:24 rangi So I can switch a site to be staging 21:25 rangi And ppl won't get confused with the live site 21:26 rangi I dont want to change CSS as often that's what i want them to test 21:26 jcamins Right. 21:26 rangi But something (other than url) 21:27 rangi That screams dont use me in production 21:27 rangi :) 21:27 cjh heh, shouldnt be too difficult. Although my css isn't good enough. 21:28 rangi Mine either 21:29 jcamins What do you mean, selectoption not found? I'm looking at it! 21:33 abracada1ra jcamins: do you have example .mrc file ? for tests in vufind? 21:33 jcamins marc sample data? 21:33 jcamins marc data? 21:33 wahanui well, marc data is being migrated from 2.2.9 to 3.2 21:33 jcamins wiki? 21:33 wahanui it has been said that wiki is http://wiki.koha-community.org 21:34 jcamins If you look on the wiki, you'll find a link to sample data somewhere. 21:35 abracada1ra jcamins: ok man... very thanks 21:35 rangi It's freezing in here 21:35 * rangi complains on Twitter 21:42 jcamins Can you not include things from other include files? 21:42 jcamins No, that doesn't seem to be it. 21:44 jcamins Oh. 21:44 jcamins You have to *PROCESS* the include. 21:44 jcamins :) 21:44 rangi Well process and include are different 21:45 jcamins So it would seem. 21:45 rangi Process changes values in the calling thing 21:46 rangi Include locally scoped 21:46 rangi TT pages have a good write up 21:46 jcamins I knew that at some point, apparently, since I got it right last time. 21:47 rangi :) 21:48 drojf what is a sane way to test if a value exists and if so, put it into tt? [% IF HTML5Streaming.username %][% HTML5Streaming.username %][% END %] looks not very straight forward? 21:49 jcamins No, that's the way we do it. 21:49 jcamins We should have a block for that. 21:49 jcamins [% PROCESS includevariable variable=HTML5Streaming.username %] 21:49 jcamins Even better would be includevariable(HTML5Streaming.username) 21:50 cait for a start I would be happy to get rid of some if statements 21:50 cait we do one for each condition 21:50 cait that's hardly readable in some place 21:50 cait s 21:50 cait instead of combining them into one if 21:50 rangi Yeah that's leftover from htp 21:50 rangi Also you can do or 21:50 jcamins cait: don't scare drojf off! 21:50 rangi I think 21:50 cait but anything that's even better is welcome too :) 21:51 cait yep 21:51 cait I think so too 21:51 cait wow 21:51 cait 4 letters for the post box tomorrow morning 21:51 cait that' svery unusual 21:51 cjh there are places where we have IFs inside IFs and all on a single line :( 21:51 cait I send that much letters in a year normally 21:52 cait cjh: eew 21:52 drojf i will have ifs inside ifs i guess :/ 21:52 rangi Htmlstreaming.name or blah 21:52 schuster well its time for me to say so long! Have a great evening! 21:53 drojf i guess i will try to get it do what i want before i try to make it less ugly :D 21:55 rangi Hmm no plane yet 21:55 rangi Looks like I'm gonna be late 21:56 drojf always good to have a plane to blame 21:56 rangi Kathryn: did we tell waimate a time I'd arrive? 21:57 kathryn rangi: 1pm. and tomorrow you're expected there 9 - 2.45pm 21:57 rangi Cool 21:58 rangi I should make 1 21:58 rangi Plane is 20 mins late 21:58 kathryn think I left you time for a pie or sammie :) 21:58 kathryn ah... stink 22:02 * jcamins curses whoever thought frameworks would be a good idea. 22:02 jcamins I mean, the concept is fine, but the implementation... 22:02 jcamins ugh. 22:06 cait jcamins: sounds familiar 22:07 jcamins Also, who thought "/" was a good character to put in an ID? 22:08 jcamins (it works fine, but you remove other punctuation and keep slashes? 22:10 jcamins 74 lines to add one subfield to a half dozen fields.