Time  Nick           Message
00:04 rangi          https://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/epic-fail-photos-autocowrecks-i-was-just-calling-to-ask-for-a-ride-you-insensitive-jag.jpg
00:20 jcamins        Is there any way to find out the last commit in a branch that was tagged?
00:21 jcamins        git describe.
00:22 jcamins        git describe --abbrev=0
00:22 rangi          cool
00:22 * jcamins      makes get_bugs.pl use that.
00:27 jcamins        There must be a shorthand way of opening a file such that if the provided filename is '-' the script prints to stdout.
00:29 jcamins        Oh, >$filename
00:30 jcamins        Guess I'll use the two-argument form of open().
00:34 jcamins        Any way to make Perl squelch newlines when reading in from `commands`?
00:35 jcamins        If I use chomp, it won't mess up anything that doesn't have a newline. That'll do.
00:45 jcamins        rangi: new version of get_bugs.pl
01:01 rangi          did you push?
01:08 jcamins_away   rangi: yeah, https://github.com/jcamins/release-tools
01:09 rangi          ah cool, to kc later?
01:10 jcamins_away   I don't think I have access
01:10 rangi          hmm
01:11 jcamins_away   I've been having chris_n push my changes.
01:11 rangi          ahh right
02:19 jenkins_koha   Starting build #64 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
02:31 jcamins_away   Ugh.
02:31 * jcamins_away is trying to rebase 7943.
02:33 rangi          oh yeah that might be tricky
02:33 rangi          i went to fix the conflict and bailed
02:33 jcamins_away   Very sensible.
02:34 rangi          it's valid to just say, it builds on work in master, so best to wait for 3.10 too
02:34 jcamins_away   Nah, I *really* want it in 3.8.
02:34 rangi          ahh righto :)
02:53 druthb         o/
02:53 rangi          heya druthb
02:53 druthb         :)  hi
02:54 jcamins_away   o/
02:54 jcamins_away   Rebased 7943 against 3.8.x.
02:54 jcamins_away   Wonder if it would apply on 3.6.x...
02:55 rangi          cool, ill test it out tonight
02:59 jcamins_away   Yeah, could do.
03:01 jcamins_away   Attached the follow-up as well.
03:01 rangi          cool
03:02 rangi          ohh good lord
03:02 rangi          someone asked about a tv
03:03 jcamins_away   A tv?
03:03 rangi          and now we have people calculating how many pixels you need to have depending on how many arcminutes you take human acuity to be
03:03 rangi          i work with geeks
03:04 jcamins_away   lol
03:06 jcamins_away   Bug 3462 is ready for sign off.
03:06 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3462 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Link see alsos in authorities
03:07 rangi          oooohhh
03:08 rangi          thats totally sandbox testable too eh?
03:08 jcamins_away   Yep.
03:08 rangi          sweet
03:10 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.8.x build #64: SUCCESS in 50 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/64/
03:10 jenkins_koha   * m.de.rooy: Bug 7367 Followup for opac-suggestions template
03:10 jenkins_koha   * Katrin.Fischer.83: Bug 8232: Comments in OPAC contain untranslatable javascript messages
03:10 jenkins_koha   * matthias.meusburger: Bug 8229: Tabs in marc subfield structure is not shown correctly
03:10 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7367 trivial, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, ASSIGNED , General OPAC typo omnibus
03:10 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8232 minor, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Pushed to Stable , Comments in OPAC contain untranslatable javascript messages
03:10 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8229 major, P5 - low, ---, matthias.meusburger, Pushed to Stable , Tabs in marc subfield structure is not shown correctly
03:10 jenkins_koha   Starting build #65 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
03:10 rangi          for fun try this
03:10 rangi          for i in Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun; do echo $( echo " $i: "; git shortlog  -n --format='%ad %s'| grep "$i " | wc -l); done
03:11 jcamins_away   Cool!
03:12 cjh            heh, Tuesdays are winning.
03:12 rangi          yep
03:12 cjh            very neat.
03:15 jcamins_away   Time to match some authorities.
03:16 jcamins_away   Hm.
03:17 rangi          jcamins_away: for i in Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun; do echo $( echo " $i: "; git shortlog  -n --format='%ad %s %aN'| grep "Esakov" | grep "$i " | wc -l); done
03:17 rangi          sunday is your most productive day
03:17 jcamins_away   I hate it when I inadvertantly upload 100MB of authorities into my system.
03:17 rangi          for i in Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun; do echo $( echo " $i: "; git shortlog  -n --format='%ad %s %aN'| grep "Chris Hall" | grep "$i " | wc -l); done
03:18 jcamins_away   Saturdays are pretty good for me, too.
03:18 rangi          yup
03:18 jcamins_away   Why did I just hit the Stage button on a 100MB authority file?
03:18 rangi          heh
03:19 jcamins_away   That was a bad idea.
03:19 rangi          go have a sleep, it'll be ready in the morning :)
03:19 jcamins_away   lol
03:20 jcamins_away   Yeah, after this Magnum PI episode ends I will.
03:20 druthb         Magnum PI?  Gosh, I've not seen that in years and years.
03:21 jcamins_away   Shari is introducing me to the TV shows of her generation. :P
03:21 druthb         lol
03:21 druthb         Tom Selleck and his Amazing...Mustache.
03:55 jcamins_away   Bug 7475 requires terminal access for sign-off.
03:55 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7475 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Option to overlay authorities
03:55 jcamins_away   2060 won't, but 7475 comes first.
03:55 * jcamins_away goes to bed.
03:59 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.8.x build #65: SUCCESS in 49 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/65/
03:59 jenkins_koha   * kyle: Bug 8223 - Properly format SQL query in C4::Bookseller::GetBookSeller
03:59 jenkins_koha   * jcamins: Bug 6720: show authority type in auth details
03:59 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8223 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Stable , Properly format SQL query in C4::Bookseller::GetBookSeller
03:59 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6720 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Saved authorities always show as 'Default'
04:05 cait           hm
04:07 Oak            Alohaa #koha
04:07 Oak            up early cait ?
04:20 cait           Oak: yes, travelling today
04:31 Oak            good
04:31 Oak            traveling is good
04:39 cait           ok, have to go :) bye all
04:40 vkm            is there anyway to restrict purchase suggestion catogory of user wise
06:11 mtj            hmm, how to test templates with 'prove t/foo.t' , again... ?
06:11 mtj            i've forgotten the name of the .t file :/
06:22 mtj            ah, twas prove ./xt, not prove ./t :)
06:35 umer           Hi everyone.. i have a little problem with the automatic email sending to new patron accounts.. can anyone help me with this
06:41 alex_a         bonjour
06:41 wahanui        privet, alex_a
06:44 umer           I can sends automatic emails to the new accouts with their username and password when i creat an account manually and put their username and password manually while makin the account. But when i use the import patrons tool KOHA doesnt send automatic emails to the new accounts. can any one help me with this or suggest some solution..
06:49 fredericd      rangi: 3.8.2 released version contains in kohaversion.pl:, not
06:50 reiveune       hello
06:59 gaetan_B       hello :)
07:30 ropuch_        Morning #koha
07:32 rangi          Yep noticed after the release but figure it's not really a problem. Not enough to do a new tarball anyway
07:37 julian_m       hello
07:37 wahanui        que tal, julian_m
07:39 hdl            hi
07:39 wahanui        hello, hdl
07:48 matts          hi #koha !
08:07 rangi          hi matts, hdl ropuch paul_p sophie_m asaurat fredericd rangi and gaetan_B
08:16 ropuch         Hello rangi
08:19 jenkins_koha   Starting build #66 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
08:20 asaurat        hi rangi !
08:25 rangi          asaurat: i was just looking at a blurry photo of us
08:25 rangi          http://pub.veggie.fr/biblibre/pics/index.php?cmd=image&sfpg=MjAxMl8wNl8wNS0xMV9Lb2hhY29uX0VkaW5idXJnaC9tYXR0cy8qUElDVDE4NDMuSlBHKjFjYjBlODhkN2Y3ZjE0MDM1OTliODVmY2E3ZjEwYjQ0
08:25 rangi          i look very confused :)
08:26 asaurat        hehe
08:27 asaurat        maybe was I trying to speak greek
08:27 rangi          heh, could be
08:31 sophie_m       hi all
08:31 rangi          morning eythian
08:32 eythian        gday
08:32 rangi          hi traveling cait-m__
08:32 cait-m__       hi
08:32 cait-m__       almost there now - exam at noon
08:32 rangi          good luck!
08:34 mib_llb4wl     hi
08:34 mib_llb4wl     anybody here
08:40 cait-m__       thx:-)
08:44 mib_llb4wl     hey
08:45 mib_llb4wl     i need some help
08:45 mib_llb4wl     regarding adding items from z3950 server
09:11 drojf1         good day #koha
09:11 hdl            mib_3z7b20: ?
09:12 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.8.x build #66: SUCCESS in 52 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/66/
09:12 jenkins_koha   colin.campbell: Bug 8216: Allow SIP modules to pass critic tests
09:12 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8216 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Stable , Enable critic tests on SIP modules
09:12 * paul_p       doing an upgrade from 2.2 to 3.8.2 today ! long time no see 2.2 ;-)
09:12 paul_p         (and I'm the only one at BibLibre knowing how to do such upgrades...)
09:12 hdl            2.2.9 was blazing fast
09:12 mib_3z7b20     confused with z3950 server and addking item
09:13 mib_3z7b20     can we give a other user a admin privileges in koha
09:13 mib_3z7b20     ?
09:13 paul_p         OTOH, I'm also playing a lot with DBIx::Class, Moose and all those things, will submit a POC soon
09:13 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 = yes, you can, just choose your admin in the user table and give him "superlibrarian" permission.
09:14 mib_3z7b20     okay thanks paul_p
09:14 mib_3z7b20     i am new to koha
09:15 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 = where are you from ? (welcome on board !)
09:15 mib_3z7b20     i am from Bhutan
09:16 mib_3z7b20     thanks
09:16 mib_3z7b20     where are you from?
09:16 mib_3z7b20     seems you know much about koha
09:16 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 = i'm from France
09:16 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 = I'm Koha Release Manager ;-)
09:16 mib_3z7b20     did you heard about Bhutan anytime
09:16 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 so yes, I know much about koha :D
09:17 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 yes, of course. It's in Asia
09:17 mib_3z7b20     ok greate
09:17 mib_3z7b20     yes its in between two giant country
09:17 mib_3z7b20     china and india
09:18 mib_3z7b20     today i just finished setting up koha
09:18 mib_3z7b20     and i cluld not import and add items from z3950 server
09:19 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 which z3950 server did you choose ? (this kind of problem can be very tricky to solve...)
09:20 mib_3z7b20     Is Library of congress one of z3950 server
09:20 mib_3z7b20     ?
09:21 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 = when you say "could not import and add items from z3950 server", could you give more details about what you were doing/seing/expecting ?
09:22 mib_3z7b20     i could do it now
09:22 mib_3z7b20     because i forgot to rebuild zebra-daemon
09:23 mib_3z7b20     where i can see my list of koha user?
09:28 mib_3z7b20     hey paul_p you there?
09:29 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 yes (although i'll leave in 15mn)
09:29 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 Koha > Patrons > search your patron
09:30 mib_3z7b20     okay
09:30 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 when you're on one patron detai l page, click Plus > permissions, superlibrarian is the 1st one
09:30 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 do you know the doc is on http://koha-community.org ?
09:30 mib_3z7b20     okay
09:30 mib_3z7b20     thanks paul_p
09:31 mib_3z7b20     you made my day
09:31 mib_3z7b20     i have created one user under staff patrons
09:31 mib_3z7b20     i have to search for that user right?
09:34 mib_3z7b20     i got it paul_p
09:34 mib_3z7b20     thanks
09:36 mib_3z7b20     hey paul_p
09:36 mib_3z7b20     one last question
09:36 mib_3z7b20     you there?
09:36 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 yep
09:36 mveron         Hey everibody #koha
09:37 mib_3z7b20     can we customize koha sites, like can we change themes n all
09:37 eythian        http://library.org.nz/ <-- mib_3z7b20 , yes you can
09:37 mib_3z7b20     thanks
09:38 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 = look at OPAC systempreferences, there are many things you can change from here (if you provide an image, a css, some javascript,...)
09:39 mib_3z7b20     okay paul_p thanks
09:40 paul_p         mib_3z7b20 (and look in the doc, there are plenty of useful informations & examples)
09:41 mib_3z7b20     okay thanks paul
09:44 mveron         Bonjour paul_p
09:45 mveron         paul_p: I rebased Bug 7621 (with Wiki as requested), and Bug 7563 , what are the next steps?
09:45 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7621 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, veron, Signed Off , Circulation: Match age restriction of title with borrower's age without using categories
09:45 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7563 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, veron, Signed Off , Silent print slips using Firefox PlugIn jsPrintSetup and new staff client preference
09:50 mib_3z7b20     i which directory openheader is located
09:50 mib_3z7b20     ?
09:52 drojf          mib_3z7b20: do you mean opacheader? there is a system preference to add your own header from the staff client without editing files by hand if that is what you want to do
09:52 mib_3z7b20     yes opacheader
09:52 * mveron       Hi drojf
09:52 drojf          hi mveron!
09:52 mib_3z7b20     thanks drojf
09:55 mveron         drojf: The Wiki mail problem seems to be related to some greylisting. I solved it (as a workaround) by redirecting mails via a gmx mail account.
09:56 drojf          mveron: ok. sounds complicated but at least it works :)
09:56 mib_3z7b20     can we edit some kind of CSS file and edit
09:56 drojf          mib_3z7b20: there is also a syspref for css
09:56 drojf          no need to edit files
09:57 mib_3z7b20     okay
10:00 mveron         mib_3z7b20: You have some HTML prferences as well. And you can do stuff with jQuery. You find hints and tricks on http://www.myacpl.org/koha/
10:00 drojf          hey. i was just looking for that url!
10:00 drojf          :)
10:01 mib_3z7b20     thanks mveron
10:01 drojf          mib_3z7b20: the advantage of the system preferences is that they will survive an upgrade. if you edit css files directly that may get lost when you upgrae to a new version of koha
10:02 mib_3z7b20     ok thanks for you suggestion
10:02 mib_3z7b20     as i am very new to koha
10:02 mib_3z7b20     i am not very good in it
10:03 drojf          mib_3z7b20: you will learn :)
10:03 drojf          we all do
10:03 mib_3z7b20     thanks
10:03 mib_3z7b20     i got to learn alot
10:03 francharb      0/ all
10:03 drojf          mib_3z7b20: you should take the time to go through the manual, it's good
10:04 mib_3z7b20     by the drojf where are you from?
10:04 mib_3z7b20     kay
10:04 drojf          hi francharb
10:04 rangi          hi francharb
10:04 drojf          mib_3z7b20: i am from berlin, germany
10:04 mib_3z7b20     okay
10:05 drojf          mib_3z7b20: you are from bhutan i read. it's nice to see koha being used all over the world
10:05 mib_3z7b20     yes
10:05 mib_3z7b20     do you know or did you ever heard of Bhutan?
10:05 drojf          sure i did
10:06 mib_3z7b20     really thats nice
10:06 mib_3z7b20     cheers for germany team in Euro2012
10:06 drojf          :)
10:07 drojf          mib_3z7b20: what are you planning to use koha for? what kind of library?
10:08 mib_3z7b20     we recently had meeting in our organization
10:08 mib_3z7b20     i am working in one of the college in bhutan as system admin
10:08 drojf          nice
10:08 mib_3z7b20     we are using one old manually developed library system called autolib
10:09 mib_3z7b20     now we want to upgrade to koha
10:10 drojf          that's cool. you will like it
10:11 mib_3z7b20     i will surely
10:11 mib_3z7b20     just now i am just the beginer
10:11 mib_3z7b20     can you give me one good link to customize koha
10:12 drojf          mib_3z7b20: i see that you have a lot of languages in bhutan. what language is used at the college?
10:12 mib_3z7b20     yes
10:12 mib_3z7b20     but we use english in all the colleges
10:12 mib_3z7b20     we do have our national language
10:13 mib_3z7b20     but we mostly use english
10:13 drojf          if you decide to translate koha to your national language one day… we always like new translations :)
10:14 mib_3z7b20     i was about to ask that
10:14 mib_3z7b20     can we translate koha to our national language
10:14 mib_3z7b20     ?
10:14 drojf          yes
10:14 mib_3z7b20     how?
10:14 drojf          there is http://translate.koha-community.org/
10:15 mib_3z7b20     but our language is not listed there
10:16 drojf          oh, i'm sorry. yes, i meant you can do a translation of koha yourself
10:16 mib_3z7b20     how i can translate koha all by myself to our language
10:16 mib_3z7b20     ?
10:17 drojf          i think somebody has to create a project for your language on the translation server and give you the administration rights
10:17 drojf          not sure how that works
10:17 mib_3z7b20     but i am sure you have worked on other language translation
10:17 hdl            mib_3z7b20: send a message on koha-translate list to the translation manager.
10:17 mib_3z7b20     ?
10:18 mib_3z7b20     okay
10:19 drojf          about customisation, i suppose you meant the opac. there is something in the manual: http://manual.koha-community.org/3.8/en/impopac.html and there is a category on the blog that mveron linked you http://www.myacpl.org/koha/?cat=6
10:19 drojf          there is also a gallery on the wiki http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Gallery_of_customized_OPACs
10:20 mib_3z7b20     thanks drofj
10:23 mib_3z7b20     my national language is listed in interface language
10:33 sophie_m       clrh : ce sera possible de faire un petit point St etienne vite fait ?
10:37 sophie_m       oups :-[
10:38 rangi          :)
10:39 rangi          google makes a really bad translation of that
10:40 clrh           :)
11:00 neo_           hi
11:00 neo_           can we see all the patrons
11:01 * rangi        goes to sleep
11:02 neo_           now we have to search or browse by last names
11:02 neo_           do we have any other way to see all the added patrons
11:03 neo_           never mind , i have searched by "*"
11:04 neo_           can see all the patrons, :)
11:19 ropuch         Hm, I get finishreceive.pl: Use of uninitialized value $origquantityrec in numeric gt (>) at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/acqui/finishreceive.pl line 60.
11:20 ropuch         followed by finishreceive.pl: Use of uninitialized value $error_url_str in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/acqui/finishreceive.pl line 104.
11:20 ropuch         I'm using, all perl modules updated
11:32 oleonard       Hi #koha
11:32 ropuch         Hi oleonard
11:37 oleonard       Anyone around who might be able to help me with Bug 8278?
11:37 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8278 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Replace YUI autocomplete in UNIMARC 210c plugin
12:47 * oleonard     thinks everyone must be hung over from the 3.8.2 release party he wasn't invited to
12:48 jcamins_away   oleonard: pre-3.6.6 party for me.
12:48 oleonard       jcamins_away: I hope that's not like having to sit at the kid table at Thanksgiving
12:48 jcamins_away   oleonard: alas, it kind of was.
12:49 eythian        I suppose I should do some 3.8.2 packages...
12:50 jcamins        eythian: yay!
13:11 jcamins        Hm. Could someone remind me what type of join will only take as many rows from the right table as there are in the left?
13:14 jcamins        (I thought it was LEFT JOIN, but LEFT JOIN is return 1400 rows instead of the desired 54)
13:14 jcamins        No, LEFT JOIN is returning 80k rows. Guess it's just doing a cartesian join.
13:24 hdl            JOIN.
13:24 hdl            or RIGHT JOIN
13:26 jcamins        Hm. SELECT DISTINCT + JOIN did it, but it's a very inefficient query. I guess better to do it differently.
13:50 francharb      0/ (again)
13:51 francharb      :)
14:21 tcohen         http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Kohacon2013
14:22 oleonard       tcohen++
14:23 tcohen         thanks oleonard
14:24 * oleonard     weeps for his travel budget though ;)
14:28 eythian        3.8.2 is being uploaded to the repo right now.
14:29 tcohen         eythian++
14:30 tcohen         julian_m: do we have a set of tests for bug 8110?
14:30 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8110 blocker, P1 - high, ---, kyle.m.hall, Failed QA , Fines accruing on closed days
14:30 tcohen         i'd like to work on that right now, but don't know how to test it
14:33 * wizzyrea     would totally do argentina
14:33 julian_m       tcohen, i don't think we have tests for this
14:34 tcohen         ok
14:35 wizzyrea       tcohen: the basic idea is this
14:35 julian_m       but you can checkout books with manually set due date to 15 days ago, 30 days ago, 400 days ago... launch fines.pl and see results
14:35 wizzyrea       right, and it would have to span a set holiday
14:35 wizzyrea       so you'd have to do some math to see if the due dates were correct
14:35 wizzyrea       and to see if the holidays were skipped for fines
14:36 wizzyrea       in all 3 (4?) date formats
15:22 eythian        can someone tell me if 952$j (Shelving control number) does something, and if so, what it does?
15:30 tcohen         wizzyrea, julian_m: i found it worked for the example I used
15:32 tcohen         (using master right now)
15:34 tcohen         its a pity as I cannot reproduce the problem in bug 8110
15:34 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8110 blocker, P1 - high, ---, kyle.m.hall, Failed QA , Fines accruing on closed days
15:34 eythian        As far as I can tell, it's managed but not actually used by anything.
15:37 magnuse        eythian: "The stack number of the item, inventory code." http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Holdings_data_fields_%289xx%29
15:38 magnuse        ...does not make me much wiser...
15:38 eythian        yes. that says nothing :)
15:38 wizzyrea       i think it's a
15:38 eythian        I can't see it being used by anything in the code
15:38 wizzyrea       @quote get 123
15:38 huginn         wizzyrea: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
15:38 magnuse        hehe
15:38 * magnuse      wanders off, all confused
15:38 wizzyrea       seriously, someone must be using it for something, but no one who cares about it
15:38 wizzyrea       oh! magnuse!
15:38 * wizzyrea     waves
15:39 eythian        wizzyrea: maybe, but I can't tell that it actually does anything
15:39 wizzyrea       right, it's like the appendix of marc
15:39 eythian        It'll store and load and comes from an auth value all OK
15:39 eythian        but there's no logic that uses it
15:39 eythian        I can't even see a display that shows it
15:39 sekjal         eythian:  I think it's just another unique identifier, separate from barcode or itemnumber
15:39 eythian        sekjal: no, it's a tinyint
15:39 tcohen         eythian: grep told me is not used anywhere
15:40 eythian        tcohen: yeah, that's what I did. The only references to it really are in C4/Items.pm
15:40 sekjal         eythian:  very tiny unique identifier?
15:40 eythian        I was hoping it was a flag to say "this is in the stack"
15:40 eythian        heh
15:40 eythian        (it's column name is items.stack)
15:40 eythian        -'
15:41 tcohen         maybe it was intended for linking with external systems?
15:41 tcohen         (a custom ID)
15:41 sekjal         oh, whoops, I was confusing it with stocknumber
15:41 sekjal         yeah, I think it may be legacy code
15:42 eythian        I wonder if I can convince a library they want it as a stack identifier.
15:43 jcamins        Oh, you're using 952$j?
15:43 jcamins        Heh.
15:43 jcamins        It's not what you want.
15:44 eythian        I'm not using it, I was hoping it did something relating to its column name
15:44 eythian        rather than nothing as seems to be the case
15:44 jcamins        It does, actually.
15:44 eythian        oh?
15:45 jcamins        "Stack number" = "non-public callnumber for microfilm collections."
15:45 eythian        jcamins: but it's a tinyint
15:45 jcamins        Microfilms often have call numbers like M12345.
15:45 jcamins        Which is great, unless you happen to barcode each spool individually.
15:45 eythian        linked to an authorised value
15:46 jcamins        Because M12345 may be stored in several different cabinets.
15:46 jcamins        So each cabinet has a stack number.
15:46 jcamins        Does it make sense?
15:46 jcamins        No, not really.
15:46 jcamins        But it is fairly standard in US libraries, as I understand it.
15:46 eythian        but what if you have more than 10 cabinets?
15:47 jcamins        eythian: that was just poor planning on the part of whoever made it a tinyint.
15:47 eythian        I can believe that.
15:47 jcamins        I think NYPL's microfilms can have stack numbers up to 300.
15:47 * oleonard     wonders how many times that has been said of tinyint
15:47 tcohen         what does stack number means? (/me is embarrased he doesnt understandthe terminology)
15:47 eythian        It doesn't even seem to display anywhere though.
15:48 jcamins        tcohen: it is the number of the stack (=cabinet) that a particular spool of microfilm is stored in.
15:48 tcohen         oh, so its a reference for the librarians
15:48 jcamins        Right.
15:48 eythian        the docs say nothing about microfilm
15:48 tcohen         to find the material
15:48 eythian        I which I had the time to find everything undocument and rip it out
15:49 eythian        until it was documented, then it could go back in
15:49 tcohen         as the call number allow them to find the material in the shelves
15:49 * wizzyrea     could get used to this european time zone eythian
15:49 eythian        though, it doesn't seem to show up even in the staff client
15:49 jcamins        tcohen: right. Though apparently we don't display it, which makes it kind of useless.
15:50 jcamins        tcohen: and, a useless (or possibly useful?) piece of triva: though a stack number refers to the number of a cabinet/stack, a shelfnumber refers to the number of a given book on the shelf.
15:50 tcohen         if it is introduced into the MARCXML for displaying maybe it could be included with the staff interface's xslts
15:51 jcamins        Where did the idea that QueryFuzzy has anything to do with spellcheck/did you mean come from?
15:52 gaetan_B       bye !
15:53 eythian        http://youtu.be/HU2ftCitvyQ <-- this sums up many things
15:54 jcamins        It seems to be a very pervasive belief.
15:55 eythian        wahanui: Captain Kirk is climbing a mountain is <reply>Why is he climbing a mountain?
15:55 wahanui        eythian: no idea
15:56 eythian        wahanui: Captain Kirk is climbing a mountain is <reply>Why \is he climbing a mountain?
15:56 wahanui        eythian: no idea
15:56 eythian        wahanui: Captain Kirk \is climbing a mountain is <reply>Why \is he climbing a mountain?
15:56 wahanui        no idea, eythian
15:56 eythian        wahanui: Captain Kirk \is climbing a mountain is <reply>Why \is he climbing a mountain#
15:56 wahanui        OK, eythian.
15:56 eythian        wahanui: Captain Kirk \is climbing a mountain =~ s/#/?/
15:56 wahanui        I didn't have anything matching 'captain kirk \is climbing a mountain', eythian
15:56 eythian        wahanui: Captain Kirk is climbing a mountain =~ s/#/?/
15:56 wahanui        OK, eythian
15:56 eythian        wahanui: Captain Kirk is climbing a mountain
15:56 wahanui        Why is he climbing a mountain?
15:56 eythian        perfect
15:57 drojf          lol
16:02 eythian        wahanui: germs
16:02 wahanui        Germs originated in Germany, before rapidly spreading throughout the rest of the world.
16:09 drojf          …all good things come from germany
16:10 drojf          yeah for another non-us bid for kohacon13
16:12 reiveune1      bye
16:12 * drojf        thinks his university will not send him to any of these places
16:12 drojf          but who knows
16:12 * eythian      might go for a beer
16:13 drojf          beer is a solution to a lot of things
16:17 * nengard      thinks beer is icky
16:17 nengard        and now I duck
16:17 drojf          heh
16:18 nengard        :)
16:19 wizzyrea       germs?
16:19 wahanui        Germs originated in Germany, before rapidly spreading throughout the rest of the world.
16:19 wizzyrea       hrmph.
16:20 * drojf        puts a scottish thistle ale in the fridge
16:56 cait           hi #koha
16:57 oleonard       Hi cait, exam all done?
16:57 cait           hm yeah
16:57 cait           but there might be a repeat
16:58 jcamins        Hello.
16:58 jcamins        Congratulations!
17:02 cait           repeat as in.... try again
17:02 cait           *sigh*
17:03 drojf          there "might be"… so when do you know?
17:03 drojf          hi cait btw :)
17:03 cait           written exam - can be soon or take a while
17:03 cait           and hi drojf :)
17:03 cait           and jcamins and oleonard :)
17:05 francharb      cait, finger crossed!
17:05 francharb      ;)
17:05 cait           thx :)
17:05 cait           for the moment I am trying to forget about it
17:05 cait           too annoying
17:05 francharb      ++
17:05 cait           any exciting koha news today? :)
17:06 drojf          argentina is in for kohacon13
17:06 francharb      circulation rules works real fine!
17:06 francharb      sorry, bad joke
17:06 francharb      ;)
17:06 drojf          lol
17:07 francharb      but I will work on a testing plan soon!!
17:10 * oleonard     was pleased with his progress on jQueryUI Dialog until he got to labels and patron cards
17:10 jcamins        cait: you finished it today, though. That's the important thing.
17:11 * jcamins      uploaded patches for bug 6720 and bug 8205
17:11 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6720 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Saved authorities always show as 'Default'
17:11 francharb      I work with a library that will have around 30 branches at the end of the projet. We spend a couple of days talking on the set up and when we talked about hold rules, well, it was a little bit messy in my head to figure out if it will works with every setting we chose! hehe! I need to test more!
17:11 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8205 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Passed QA , Should be possible to hide unused authorities in OPAC
17:11 jcamins        Bug 7475
17:11 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7475 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Option to overlay authorities
17:11 jcamins        ^^ that's what I meant. 8205 is already passed QA.
17:12 francharb      cait, jcamins made a point! I hope you will at least celebrate today!
17:13 francharb      I raise a toast to cait! 0/
17:14 francharb      ;)
17:15 francharb      and I go back on my migration report
17:15 francharb      see ya
17:15 oleonard       Bye francharb
17:16 cait           francharb: test, document and share=
17:16 cait           ?
17:16 cait           I am sure you know way more than me already :)
17:16 francharb      cait, that's my goal
17:16 cait           jcamins++
17:16 cait           and francharb++ and oleonard++
17:27 atmanning      I have multiple runaway rebuild_zebra.pl processes going!  How can I control how often rebuild_zebra runs?  There are no crontab files around to edit.  Is this hidden somewhere in the configuration files?
17:27 atmanning      running on debian - koha-common
17:29 atmanning      feel free to point me to a link... I continue to search the Koha site for info about this...
17:30 cait           atmanning: how did you install Koha?
17:30 jcamins        atmanning: crontab -e
17:30 cait           which version and os?
17:30 jwagner        atmanning, you should have a crontab for the koha user, with an entry for rebuild_zebra
17:30 jcamins        Oh, koha-common?
17:30 wahanui        koha-common is the one you want, the main koha one needs a bit more work (its for setting up a single instance)
17:30 jcamins        Just edit /etc/cron.d/koha-common. :)
17:31 atmanning      latest debian ... used apt-get to install
17:31 jcamins        atmanning: in that case, see my last suggestion.
17:31 jcamins        And ignore the complicated one I gave you at first.
17:31 * jcamins      is currently photographing books, so he's a little distracted.
17:31 atmanning      found the file - thanks!  I was looking in /var/spool/cron, which is empty and was all confused
17:32 jcamins        Yeah, /var/spool/cron is where cron output can be stored.
17:32 jcamins        (but isn't, on Linux, so far as I know)
17:37 atmanning      do I need to restart koha somehow after editing that crontab file?
17:37 jcamins        Nope.
17:38 jcamins        Just kill off your runaway Zebras. :)
17:39 drojf          zebra bbqueue
17:44 atmanning      with 135000 records, that rebuild_zebra process seems to be taking way too long...
17:47 jcamins        atmanning: if you edited a sizeable percentage of the database, it'll take a couple of hours.
17:48 atmanning      hmm.... I added the records two weeks ago and have done nothing since.    Should I run it from the command line instead to check for errors?
17:49 drojf          do you run it with -r? that rebuilds everything completely
17:49 jcamins        I would pause the cron job (comment it out), kill all the running rebuild_zebra processes, then do koha-rebuild-zebra --full
17:49 jcamins        Then unpause the cron jobs.
17:49 jcamins        Sounds like your system has been deadlocked for two weeks.
17:51 tcohen         does FineNotifyAtCheckin calculates fines for patron? does it compete with fines.pl?
17:56 atmanning      killed all the jobs, running from command line... perl /usr/share/koha/bin/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra.pl -b -r -v
17:57 jcamins        atmanning: if you installed from the packages, you should be running sudo koha-rebuild-zebra --full
17:59 atmanning      how can I monitor output from the koha-rebuild-zebra process?  /var/log/koha/?
18:00 jcamins        sudo koha-rebuild-zebra --full --verbose?
18:00 jcamins        man koha-rebuild-zebra will tell you. :)
18:00 jcamins        You just missed the guy who wrote that script, so he can't tell you off the top of his head. ;)
18:01 atmanning      ooh, forgot this stuff had man pages.... was looking through the wiki..
18:01 jcamins        atmanning: yeah, I'm lazy and usually use the man pages. ;)
18:03 tcohen         #koha, what is the fines.pl script for? I mean, aren't the fines and overdues calculated on check-in?
18:04 jcamins        tcohen: they were not until 3.8.
18:04 tcohen         exactly
18:05 cait           tcohen: and I still think you can use it
18:05 tcohen         but we have a bug against master and 3.8.x
18:05 cait           because without patrons don't see they have fines
18:05 cait           and it will not show up in their accounts or notices
18:05 jcamins        tcohen: yeah, the switch broke things.
18:05 tcohen         but... they don't have fines until the do a check-in
18:05 cait           they do.
18:06 cait           well, here they do
18:06 tcohen         as the amount won't be calculated until they check-in?
18:06 jcamins        tcohen: that's what fines.pl calculates.
18:06 cait           yeah, that's why we still need the cronjob
18:07 tcohen         so, every new [frequency], you expect the fines.pl script to add an amount of money to the debt the patron has
18:07 tcohen         so it is shown to the user
18:07 cait           yeah
18:08 cait           for libraires not using hourly loans
18:08 cait           you would run it once a day
18:08 cait           or every hour for hourly probably?
18:08 tcohen         (you can charge $X for every Y days I think)
18:08 cait           yes
18:08 cait           but it checks the calendar and dates
18:09 cait           so it will only add a fine every x days
18:09 cait           not every day, even if it's run more often
18:09 tcohen         I still don't understand why we could need a cronjob for that
18:10 cait           we always had one?
18:10 cait           I mean, that's not a new feature
18:10 cait           it's only something that can work differently now
18:10 cait           the cronjob was used to check every night if  book was overdue and put a fine on it when the rules said there should be one
18:11 tcohen         yes, but we can calculate that on check-in or when going to tha patron's details
18:12 tcohen         I guess it is possible that from one day to the other there might be a policy change
18:12 tcohen         charging more/less money for overdue days
18:12 tcohen         and we could want for a period the charge the patron using some config, and the remaining days another one
18:13 jcamins        tcohen: right, we *should* calculate it every time we need to tell someone what the fine is, but we don't.
18:13 jcamins        We have to use the cron job for that.
18:13 cait           hm
18:13 cait           I think maybe I disagree here
18:13 cait           if you change the rules
18:13 cait           and the patron already checked the account for his fine... it shouldn't change
18:13 cait           fines that were set when policy x was in place
18:13 cait           must remain
18:13 tcohen         exactly
18:13 cait           and when the notice was sent out and told them the fine amount
18:13 cait           you can't change it
18:13 cait           history has to be kept
18:13 tcohen         and thats why a fines.pl cronjob should remain
18:14 tcohen         i guess
18:14 tcohen         maybe there are other use cases
18:16 tcohen         is there any doc on the use cases that have been taken into account when writing those libs/scripts?
18:16 jcamins        tcohen: I highly doubt it.
18:16 cait           tcohen: maybe talk to eythian
18:16 cait           he had started on an account rewrite
18:17 cait           and I think he did a pod for a new modue
18:17 cait           and looked at this
18:17 tcohen         we need it to avoid confusion, because it is not straightforward to understand those concurrent libs/scripts
18:17 tcohen         not to speak about the interaction with those systemprefs
18:17 cait           agreed
18:17 jcamins        cait: I think tcohen is asking about the existing hourly loans code.
18:17 cait           ah
18:17 cait           I never touched hourly so far
18:17 cait           no help here :(
18:17 jcamins        (by which I mean, the fine stuff that the hourly loans added)
18:18 cait           but I agree, more documentation is needed
18:18 tcohen         i'm reading code so i can try to help on bug 8110
18:18 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8110 blocker, P1 - high, ---, kyle.m.hall, Failed QA , Fines accruing on closed days
18:18 cait           I didn't even know it changed the fines behaviour :(
18:18 jcamins        That's the calculating fines on checkin.
18:19 tcohen         and found i don't fully understand the interaction between fines.pl and the current sysprefs
18:20 tcohen         #koha, have a nice weekend, got to levae right now
18:20 oleonard       Bye tcohen
18:21 oleonard       One more small cut to YUI: Bug 8283
18:21 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8283 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Replace usage of YUI Cookie utility with jQuery Cookie plugin
18:23 jcamins        oleonard++
18:24 cait           oleonard++
18:25 oleonard       Now I'm off for two weeks, so you guys keep this ship running for me okay?
18:25 cait           oh
18:25 cait           we will try
18:25 cait           butit will be hard
18:25 cait           where are you going? :)
18:26 oleonard       Thailand
18:26 cait           oh!
18:26 cait           safe travels and have lots of fun :)
18:26 cait           and make some beautiful photos for us :)
18:26 oleonard       Thanks, I'm going to do my best to have fun
18:27 oleonard       I will be thinking of rangi and his many trips back and forth while flying across the Pacific for the first time
18:27 cait           how long is your trip?
18:29 oleonard       We leave Sunday and return on July 5, almost two full weeks
18:31 cait           not taht long!
18:31 cait           but I met someone from sf on the train today
18:32 * oleonard     has to leave
18:32 oleonard       Bye everyone
18:32 cait           oh ok :)
18:32 cait           so I will spare you my thoughts about vacation lengths :P
18:32 cait           bye oleonard
18:32 cait           :)
18:32 oleonard       Hold that thought...
18:32 wizzyrea       oleonard - be safe, have fun
18:33 wizzyrea       bother the typo made me miss him. Hate it when that happens
18:33 cait           hi wizzyrea - know exactly what you mean :)
19:07 rangi          oh argentina now too
19:08 * jcamins      imagines the denizens of #koha at a pro-Peron rally.
19:09 jcamins        (I actually had Evita stuck in my head earlier, too, but now it's firmly ensconced)
19:09 wizzyrea       don't cry for me argentina
19:10 rangi          heh
19:40 rangi          kids want breakfast, brb
19:45 jcamins        You know what would be useful?
19:45 wizzyrea       what?
19:46 jcamins        A way to integrate pootle more closely into running Koha installations, so you could have librarians who find mistranslations easily correct it.
19:48 cait           yeah :)
19:49 jcamins        Some kind of pootle overlay, perhaps.
19:49 jcamins        Turn on the pootle overlay, tell it you want to retranslate something, click the string you want to retranslate, and have it go straight to that string.
19:50 jcamins        Also helpful when people don't like the word "cart."
19:50 rangi          yep i talked about that at the hackfest actually
19:50 jcamins        Darn. I never have new ideas.
19:51 jcamins        :P
19:51 jcamins        So, where's the proof of concept?
19:51 jcamins        I'd test it.
19:51 rangi          hehe well its one from about 4 years ago
19:51 rangi          have no idea how to do it
19:51 jcamins        Aww.
19:51 jcamins        Me either.
19:51 rangi          the only way to jump to a string in pootle is via a search
19:51 rangi          and it may or may not be the one
19:51 jcamins        Right.
19:52 cait           search is still kinda limited in pootle
19:52 cait           although better than it was with kartouche (kartouche having no search at all)
19:52 rangi          its under active development
19:52 rangi          pootle that is
19:53 rangi          we could get involved, find the bugs list etc see if anyone is working on something like jump to a string
19:53 wizzyrea       what would be cool
19:53 wizzyrea       would be a mode where all strings are linked
19:53 wizzyrea       and you click it and it takes you there
19:53 cait           hm yeah, but then you could not switch between pages :)
19:54 rangi          yep but a toggle on and off
19:54 cait           yep
19:54 wizzyrea       well it'd have to be something like a firefox plugin or something
19:54 rangi          toggle translation mode on
19:54 wizzyrea       ^^^^
19:54 cait           I would still like to see the manual being fixed
19:54 rangi          edit the .po file locally
19:54 rangi          then a 'submit my changes' button
19:54 cait           I think perhaps we could have a bookmarklet
19:55 cait           click the stirng, click the bookmarklet, start a search in pootle
19:55 cait           and if it could search for string + template name maybe
19:55 rangi          http://katipo.co.nz/software/kea/page-editing.html
19:55 rangi          like that
19:56 atmanning      I just saw this output from rebuild_zebra.pl:  Records exported: 135392 DBD::mysql::st execute failed: The table 'zebraqueue' is full at /usr/share/koha/bin/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra.pl line 282.   Is there anything I can do to resolve the problem?   It took about three hours to get to this point in the script.
19:57 rangi          did you run out of diskspace ?
19:57 jcamins        atmanning: truncate zebraqueue.
19:58 atmanning      It says it is reindexing zebra, but I'm not sure if it is hopeless and there is no output.... ooh I see the disk is full ... grrr
19:58 rangi          yeah you will get that if the disk is full
19:59 rangi          you need enough space to write out all the records as marcxml, then enough space to create the indexes of them
19:59 jcamins        atmanning: then I'd run the mysql recovery program, whatever it is, because this is probably why your system was deadlocked, and who knows how many problems there have been.
19:59 jcamins        rangi: actually, this is an even bigger problem than that... the mysql error means that root can't even write to the device.
19:59 rangi          wel yeah if the disk is full
19:59 rangi          you will get that
20:00 rangi          no one, not even root, can write to a full device
20:00 jcamins        rangi: unless you were tampering with your filesystem settings, that shouldn't happen.
20:00 rangi          eh?
20:00 jcamins        A "full" disk has 15% free space.
20:00 rangi          um no
20:01 jcamins        Really?
20:01 rangi          its totally possible to actually fill a disk
20:01 rangi          happens all the time
20:01 jcamins        Well, I know it's possible, but it shouldn't happen when you're indexing... at least unless ext reserves space differently than ffs/ufs.
20:01 rangi          actually ive seen /var be filled tons of times
20:02 rangi          and had to truncate logs
20:03 rangi          and if you have you havent set innodb_file_per_table
20:04 rangi          that innodb data file grows huge fast, and never gets smaller
20:04 jcamins        I've seen that too, but a non-root process shouldn't be able to cause that error in MySQL.
20:04 jcamins        Hm.
20:04 jcamins        ext2 only does 5% buffer.
20:04 rangi          why not?
20:04 rangi          if mysql is writing to space at the same time
20:04 jcamins        I had understood that MySQL was run as root.
20:04 rangi          yes
20:05 atmanning      rebooting first to see if the system will wipe out some temp files on a clean startup, then I may resize this virtual machine's drive.  Any recommendations for min disk size for a library of 200K books?
20:05 jcamins        The indexing is not.
20:05 rangi          yes
20:05 rangi          each of those queuries
20:05 jcamins        In order for MySQL to run out of disk space, that implies that the filesystem was *already* overfilled.
20:05 rangi          increments the binary index
20:06 jcamins        Because the indexer would have crashed prior to MySQL running out of space otherwise.
20:06 rangi          what well happen is rebuild zebra fills all space
20:06 rangi          it doenst crash, just truncates the last record it was trying to write
20:07 rangi          and meanwhile mysql is still trying to write a ton of binary logs
20:07 rangi          and probably syslog is growing and helping create the death spiral
20:08 jcamins        I guess it depends on the size of the filesystem, but 5% of 20GB is still a lot of space for MySQL to be able to fill up so quickly.
20:08 rangi          its why i put /var/lib/mysql on its own partition
20:08 * jcamins      does that as well.
20:08 rangi          its not just mysql, lots of things run as root
20:08 rangi          and actually mysql writes as mysql
20:08 rangi          on debian
20:09 * rangi        just looked
20:09 rangi          -rw-rw---- 1 mysql mysql  5242880 Jun 23 06:49 ib_logfile0
20:09 rangi          -rw-rw---- 1 mysql mysql  5242880 Jun 23 06:49 ib_logfile1
20:09 jcamins        Ah, well, that explains why MySQL could run into problems before you got a "no space on device" message from Zebra.
20:09 * jcamins      has gotten those messages before.
20:10 rangi          i dont think its even got as far as zebra
20:10 rangi          its still dumping the records, zebraidx hasnt even been called yet
20:10 jcamins        Ohhh.
20:10 jcamins        Okay, never mind, that makes sense.
20:10 rangi          back to atmanning question ;)
20:11 rangi          how big is the disk now atmanning ?
20:11 * jcamins      saw the "table zebraqueue is full" message, and presumed it had to be on the UPDATE at the end of indexing.
20:18 rangi          i think 20gig would be enough for that size db
20:22 jcamins        Depending on what else you have on there. If you are also using the server for a digital repository, you'll want more.
20:33 jcamins        Hm.
20:33 atmanning      current disk is default debian size for VirtualBox guest OS - 8 Gig - resizing...
20:34 jcamins        I don't think I'll respond to Paul's message explaining that in fact - does not exclude an item from search, generally speaking.
20:35 rangi          not without ccl= somewhere in there
20:36 jcamins        Right.
20:36 jcamins        I'm also not feeling in the mood to explain that QueryFuzzy does not actually do anything with the dictionary.
20:38 sekjal         time for me to go.  have a good weekend, #koha!
20:39 rangi          cya sekjal
20:39 jcamins        (plus, I'm not entirely clear what it *does* do)
20:39 jcamins        (other than confuse people)
20:39 jcamins        Okay, I think I have no choice but to brave rush hour with my photography equipment.
22:22 jcamins        Ooh, this is challenging.
22:23 jcamins        On the one hand, a KohaCon in the US would be much easier to get to. On the other hand, Cordoba isn't as expensive as Edinburgh... quite.
22:27 drojf          for me it's all far away and will sound scary to the people in charge of the budget
22:31 jcamins        Hehe.
22:31 jcamins        Good answer on the list.
22:39 drojf          seems like you scared away the kobli guy
22:41 jcamins        drojf: that is unfortunate, but if you're not going to contribute, just talk big, I have no patience for you.
22:44 jcamins        (that was the generic "you," you, drojf, don't do that, and I have lots of patience for you:)
22:44 drojf          i was kidding. it's not unfortunate, your email was the right thing and he seems to be just ignorant. if he is neither going to contribute nor to answer a simple question he should stay away with the anouncement in the first place
22:44 drojf          heh i got that ;)
22:45 jcamins        Hey, isn't it midnight-ish in Berlin?
22:45 drojf          it is
22:46 drojf          0:44
22:46 jcamins        Why are you awake, then?
22:48 drojf          have been importing a bigger (as in ~1000 biblios) set of data to the koha pi and looking at some git 101
22:48 jcamins        Ahhh.
22:49 drojf          i can be very busy when i should do other things :D
22:51 drojf          i have to summon dpavlin in the coming days, plack takes more ram than i expected. but i am still surprised that koha performs like that on the raspi
22:52 jcamins        Hehe.
22:55 drojf          hm. i came across http://www.librarieswithoutborders.org/ today and was wondering what library system they use. did not find any info, so i sent them an email but nobody has answered yet
22:56 jcamins        [off] I'm not surprised. They don't seem to have their act together at all.
22:57 drojf          heh. what makes you think that? i dont really know anything about them, but i get a lot of database errors on that site
23:00 jcamins        Back when they were first trying to start a library in Cote d'Ivoire (or Ghana? I don't recall), they announced that they had encountered a serious problem: no power was available.
23:01 jcamins        At the time I worked with someone who did that sort of thing- built sustainable power sources in underdeveloped regions.
23:01 jcamins        So I contacted them to say "hey, here's this person who has a charity providing power sources to non-profits like your proposed library."
23:02 jcamins        The first response I got was "thanks, we will let you know when we are prepared to deal with the power issues" (note, the reason I contacted them was because they announced the project was stalled until they could find a solution to the problem).
23:02 jcamins        I sent them a follow-up a year later, which they ignored.
23:02 jcamins        I don't think they ever built the library.
23:02 jcamins        Wherever it was.
23:06 drojf          hm. yes that is what i thought when i looked at the website. there is way too much affiliations and names and blah. looks like something that finances an administration that is too big and won't get things done at the level you would expect from their presentation
23:06 jcamins        Yup. After my experience in Afghanistan, I generally have little patience for NGOs.
23:07 drojf          what did you do in afghanistan?
23:07 jcamins        I was a librarian. :)
23:08 drojf          i kind of expected that :)
23:08 jcamins        Hehe.
23:08 jcamins        I think you might be the only person who has ever anticipated that response, then.
23:09 drojf          in what kind of library did you work there? you were involved with a ngo?
23:09 jcamins        I worked at the American University of Afghanistan.
23:10 drojf          we will have a lot of guest ops soon
23:10 drojf          aaah now they start to time out :D
23:10 jcamins        I guess the storm is pretty strong down in NC, too.
23:13 drojf          how long have you been in afghanistan?
23:13 jcamins        I was only there three months.
23:13 jcamins        It was enough. ;)
23:14 jcamins        September-December 2007.
23:14 drojf          was it planned like this or did you run away? ;)
23:14 jcamins        Oh, I didn't really have a plan at all.
23:14 jcamins        I didn't like it there, so I left at the end of the semester.
23:15 drojf          ok
23:15 drojf          i did not expect an american university there at all, i'm slightly confused what the concept is
23:16 jcamins        So were they.
23:16 jcamins        It was an English-language university charging American prices in Kabul.
23:17 drojf          sounds like something people in that area would need
23:17 jcamins        Well, not the prices.
23:18 drojf          maybe also not the rest of it ;)
23:19 drojf          wikipedia says "not for profit". what did they do with the money then?
23:19 * jcamins      would have thought that too, but apparently we were wrong.
23:19 drojf          heh
23:20 jcamins        Good question!
23:24 drojf          is the sustainable energy-person still in that business? something like that might be useful if $100-automated-libraries really work out with koha
23:25 jcamins        If that person isn't, someone else will be, and I know who would know them.
23:27 drojf          i think i will vote for kohacon in nigeria for things like that. its amazing what is possible with ridiculously cheap hardware these days and i'd like to see people profit from that somehow.
23:29 drojf          i mean profit as in "be able to learn/ read", not $$$
23:29 jcamins        Right.
23:29 jcamins        My problem is that I have to balance my desire to get the word about Koha out to people in Nigeria with my desire to actually go to a KohaCon.
23:30 drojf          yeah i absolutely understand that
23:31 drojf          i might have voted for a kohacon in europe just because it is way more likely that i can actually go there
23:32 drojf          but i did not expect to go to edinburgh either and when i asked if that would be possible the response was surprisingly positive, so who knows
23:32 * jcamins      will cross his fingers for you. :)
23:32 drojf          :)
23:33 drojf          for me all 5 options will probably be 2x as much as edinburgh and we will see how that works out. the tactical vote would be "have usa now, then they cannot beat euro next time" but i think voting like that is too crazy
23:34 jcamins        Also, it doesn't work like that.
23:34 jcamins        Because of the rotation, USA and Europe will never be on the ballot together. :)
23:35 jcamins        At least, I don't think that could happen.
23:35 drojf          why not?
23:35 jcamins        We rotate continents.
23:36 drojf          rotation has been a different continent so far, but i think "not the same country" was said a few times now and there are no fixed rules as far as i know
23:36 jcamins        Oh, I wasn't paying too close attention.
23:43 drojf          i wonder how to interpret the fact that after kohacon in india, nobody from india came to the following kohacon
23:43 jcamins        Probably too expensive?
23:46 drojf          probably
23:46 jcamins        A lot of the attendees in India were students.
23:48 drojf          that's good! but i thought there were some support companies and assumed the one or the other person would make it to edinburgh too
23:49 drojf          but it is quite expensive to travel that way i guess
23:50 drojf          almost 2, i'll better go to bed. good night jcamins, watch #koha ;)
23:50 jcamins        Good night.