Time  Nick           Message
03:28 Amit_Gupta     heya bag
04:58 bag            heya Amit_Gupta
04:58 wahanui        Amit_Gupta is from Nucsoft Osslabs
06:48 reiveune       hello
06:57 * paul_p       and all the BibLibre team now head to the airport...
06:57 paul_p         bye bye Edinburgh.
07:03 rangi          safe travels
07:04 cait           safe travels!
07:04 rangi          missing you guys already, will have to try to get to the marseille hackfest
07:04 cait           hope to see you all again soon
07:05 * liw          missed everyone :(
07:07 cait           liw: but hope you are feeling better?
07:07 liw            I am feeling better, maybe tomorrow I get to go to work
07:08 cait           oh
07:33 jenkins_koha   Starting build #50 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
07:36 * Oak          waves
07:38 cait           hi Oak :)
07:39 Oak            hello cait :)
07:39 Oak            how long is your stay left in UK?
07:40 cait           flying back home tomorrow
07:43 Oak            hmm.
07:43 Oak            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY-zmJ1VCQI
07:44 Oak            "Did you ever get the feeling that you wanted to go, But still had the feeling that you wanted to stay."
07:45 cait           hm
07:45 cait           I don't want to go
07:45 Oak            hmm.
08:06 slef           blurgh. Car fixed up for free. Got me home. Got lost on the way (road closed) but about as long as I expected (7.5 hours including breaks).
08:08 rangi          glad you made it home safe
08:10 cait           slef: what rangi said :)
08:10 cait           glad it worked out with the car
08:10 cait           and thx for a great time in edinburgh :)
08:11 slef           well... it was fixed-up, not fixed. Still need to find its bug.
08:12 slef           and thanks for the same :)
08:12 slef           is anyone else going to be at bibliohack? I've more book bags...
08:14 mtj            hows the whisky/beer sampling going at kohacon?
08:15 mbalmer        moarning
08:23 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.8.x build #50: SUCCESS in 50 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/50/
08:23 jenkins_koha   * ruth: Bug 8009: Item descriptive data not populated on pay.pl
08:23 jenkins_koha   * jonathan.druart: Bug 8009: Followup Item descriptive data not populated on pay.pl
08:23 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8009 minor, P5 - low, ---, ruth, Pushed to Stable , Item descriptive data not populated on pay.pl
08:23 jenkins_koha   Starting build #51 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
09:13 drojf          hi from the airlink bus
09:13 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.8.x build #51: SUCCESS in 49 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/51/
09:13 jenkins_koha   * adrien.saurat: Bug 8217:[SIGNED-OFF] Focus on search box in staff detail page
09:13 drojf          byebye edinburgh
09:13 jenkins_koha   * Chris Cormack: Updating template for release notes
09:13 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8217 minor, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, Needs Signoff , Focus on search box in Detail page (staff search)
09:34 mtompset       Greetings, #koha.
09:38 medmondson     droif: byeee
10:00 magnuse        kia ora #koha!
10:21 mbalmer        back @office
10:31 mtompset       Greetings, mblamer.
10:31 mtompset       Oops.. mbalmer.
10:31 mbalmer        heh, common typo ;)
10:32 mtompset       Thankfully, otherwise I'd feel really stupid.
10:36 mtompset       Where's the office?
10:37 mtompset       @wunder MNL
10:37 huginn         mtompset: The current temperature in Manila, Philippines is 30.0°C (6:00 PM PHT on June 12, 2012). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 25.0°C. Pressure: 29.68 in 1005 hPa (Steady).
10:37 * mtompset     is about to attempt an upgrade for the very first time.
10:51 mbalmer        mtompset, in Basel, Switzerland
11:01 mtompset       Ah, Interesting.
11:02 mtompset       Just waiting for my old data to import before updating. :)
11:03 mbalmer        from a Koha point of view, Switzerland is still a developing country.
11:06 * mtompset     smirks.
11:06 mtompset       Is that a pun on developing?
11:08 mbalmer        no, it means that in Switzerland, there aint not much Koha installations yet.
11:09 * mtompset     is enlightened. :)
11:09 mtompset       That was the other possibility.
11:09 mtompset       Here in the Philippines, the National Library has moved to Koha.
11:10 mbalmer        nice!
11:10 mtompset       It's more of a user role, rather than a participatory one.
11:11 mtompset       But it means that our organization's move to use Koha is a good move at least in the local context. :)
11:31 magnuse        mtompset: moving to koha is good in any context ;-)
11:34 slef           mtompset: Philippine House of Representatives uses Koha too I think.
11:37 jcamins        o/
11:37 * mtompset     shrugs. Just trying to get imported data to search before attempting an upgrade for the first time.
11:38 mtompset       Greetings, jcamins.
11:38 jcamins        Good time-of-day.
11:38 * mtompset     grins, "Good reply."
11:45 * mtompset     groans, "Oh the pains of a 1.5GHZ netbook running a koha virtual machine. I guess the indexing will take a while."
11:45 mbalmer        indexing what?
11:45 wahanui        rumour has it indexing is done by Zebra
11:46 mtompset       rebuild_zebra.pl -b -a -r -v
11:46 jcamins        mtompset: yep.
11:46 mtompset       supposedly around 39K books.
11:46 mbalmer        ah, I see.  well, I can only smile and point to my blog post about MARC in SQL ;)
11:47 mtompset       I noticed that... but PostGreSQL was mentioned.
11:47 jcamins        Unfortunately, having a MARC datatype in postgres won't help with the indexing at all.
11:47 mbalmer        indexes 246'814 books just in seconds.
11:47 mtompset       What does that mean for MySQL?
11:47 mbalmer        it will never be in MySQL.
11:48 mtompset       Well, that's a little PostGreSQL-ist. :P
11:48 mbalmer        hehe ;)  but it's a nice experiment, with still open questions.
11:49 jcamins        mbalmer: you patched Zebra to directly access the database?
11:49 mtompset       Yes, it is.
11:49 jcamins        That seems like a maintenance nightmare.
11:49 mbalmer        e.g. I want to find out if PostgreSQL's full text search can be used for title search and such.
11:49 mtompset       Actually, if I read it correctly, he patched the DB structure to allow for MARC fields/subfields.
11:49 jcamins        mtompset: yeah, that I know.
11:49 mbalmer        jcamins, no, I did not do that neither do I plan that.
11:50 jcamins        mtompset: however, indexing is dependent on Zebra.
11:50 jcamins        mbalmer: very wise.
11:51 mbalmer        atm, this is pure research.  If at all, it should replace Zebra.  But I don't know if it even could (full text search etc..)
11:51 mtompset       If this is pure research, try to find a generic solution that works in other back-ends too. :)
11:52 * jcamins      will stick with Zebra or solr for indexing.
11:52 mbalmer        mtompset, no, it's pg only, sorry.
11:53 jcamins        mbalmer doesn't consider any option other than postgres to be worthwhile.
11:54 mbalmer        well, I am curious if indexing purely in an SQL DB is doable at all (there are some doubts)
11:54 mbalmer        jcamins, please don't put words in my mouth, speak for yourself, I did not say what you just said.
11:55 jcamins        mbalmer: apologies. I must have misunderstood.
11:57 mtompset       Well, it is obvious that people tend to prefer one backend over another, and some back ends lend themselves better syntactically for experiments, like mbalmer's experiment.
11:58 mtompset       Frankly, you wouldn't have me experimenting with PostGreSQL by default. :)
11:58 mtompset       Though, depending on the size of your data, and type of data, it may be a better choice than MySQL. :)
11:59 mbalmer        as for Koha, the current goal is clear:  run on mysql and eventually on postgres, too.  so support two DBs.  what I do with postgres here, is an experiment.
11:59 jcamins        mbalmer: three DBs. Don't forget about sqlite for testing purposes! ;)
11:59 mbalmer        mtompset, try storing february, 31-st in a postgres database.  it will refuse that, because it is an illegal date.
12:00 mtompset       Let me guess, MySQL massages it to a valid date?
12:00 mbalmer        sqllite can not be a choice, since it allows only one process to access data, and we have several.
12:00 mbalmer        (at least when doing sip)
12:01 jcamins        mbalmer: for most testing, one would only need a single process at once.
12:01 mbalmer        mtompset, mySQL just accepts it.  and I can tell you numerous other glitches.
12:01 jcamins        mbalmer: and perhaps there is a similar file-based system that allows multiple databases.
12:01 mbalmer        jcamins, true, but then setting up a DB is not really that hard, definitely easier than support a third DB in the code.
12:02 mtompset       What about February 29? Does PostGreSQL actually do the leap year checks to validate?
12:02 jcamins        DBIx FTW! :D
12:02 mbalmer        mtompset, of course.
12:02 mbalmer        jcamins, the ORM route is a dead end.
12:02 samuel         hi everybody
12:02 mbalmer        unless DBIx can be done in a way where it consider specialities of the udnerlying DB.
12:03 jcamins        Good... afternoon (?) samuel.
12:03 samuel         jcarmin: yes, it's 2 PM in Paris
12:04 mtompset       Greetings, Samuel.
12:13 oleonard       Hi #koha
12:19 nengard        hi oleonard
12:21 mtompset       hello, nengard and oleonard.
12:22 mtj            mbalmer: whatever DBIx can't do, just dont use DBIx - for that specific task
12:22 mtj            ... thats the solution to your DBIx problem
12:29 mtj            the important thing to understand with DBIx (and other ORMs?) is... you are not forced to use them for *everything*
12:31 mtj            so in a situation where  DBIx does not consider specialities of the udnerlying DB... just dont use it for that task :)
12:31 mtompset       But what is the point of a mixed solution? Why not implement solutions for each DB backend?
12:31 jcamins        mtompset: maintenance.
12:32 mtj            ...and use DBIx in the places where it makes easy and clean sense
12:32 mtj            yes, code maintenance!
12:33 mtompset       Okay, there's merit to the maintenance argument, but will changes to the DB backends be so drastic as to cause more maintenance for individual solutions as compared to a mixed solution?
12:34 magnuse        talking of dead ends, MARC is the biggest of them all...
12:34 jcamins        mtompset: yes. DBIx will be suitable the vast majority of the time.
12:35 * mtompset     chuckles, "You have a point magnuse."
12:36 mtompset       Out of curiousity, what MARC are you folks using, UniMarc, or Marc 21?
12:36 jcamins        MARC21.
12:36 magnuse        NORMARC
12:37 oleonard       OLEONARDMARC
12:37 jcamins        UNIMARC is mostly limited to France, I think.
12:37 magnuse        the horror!
12:37 mtompset       You have your own MARC standard, oleonard?
12:37 oleonard       I would, but the MAN works tirelessly to keep it down
12:37 magnuse        see, us 5 million norwegians are so special, we need our own MARC version, because we have special needs and we understand things that no one else understands
12:37 * oleonard     is just kidding
12:38 jcamins        magnuse: I think you're very special. ;)
12:38 jcamins        How's your little one?
12:39 magnuse        jcamins: eating and sleeping and something i won't mention in polite company - all well!
12:39 jcamins        Hehe.
12:39 jcamins        :)
12:39 samuel         yes, unimarc is a french thing. Our ILS use his own unimarc
12:42 * magnuse      wishes he had more time to work on semantikoha...
12:42 * jcamins      too!
12:43 magnuse        i'm thinking of using something like kickstarter to try and raise money for it...
12:43 mtompset       Okay, next dumb question... why don't a bunch of international librarians sit down and reach a consensus as to what MARC should be?
12:43 * oleonard     wishes he had more time to work on coding guidelines
12:43 jcamins        mtompset: they did... that's why we have MARC21 and UNIMARC.
12:44 oleonard       mtompset: Yeah, the Americans should sit down and convince everyone they're doing it wrong. We're good at that.
12:44 magnuse        mtompset: MARC should be dead - we should spend our energy on it's successor
12:44 mtompset       hence my "should be", magnuse.
12:45 magnuse        :-)
12:45 jcamins        magnuse: I think a kickstarter project is a good idea.
12:46 mtompset       But MARC21 and UNIMARC are two different standards. The dream of every programmer is a single, simple standard.
12:46 magnuse        jcamins: yay! though kickstarter only works for recipients in the us, so i'm looking for alternatives
12:46 jcamins        Andrew S. Tanenbaum said something about that.
12:46 mtompset       And magnuse pointed out NORMARC.
12:47 mtompset       Ah yes, Tanenbaum... I remember that OS book. ;)
12:47 oleonard       It would be nice to have just one MARC standard that everyone hated and hoped would die instead of three.
12:47 * mtompset     laughs, "Exactly. Focus the hate." ;)
12:48 jcamins        oleonard: four.
12:48 jcamins        Don't forget RUSMARC.
12:48 mtompset       Nothing about RUSMARC on the wiki.
12:48 jcamins        That's because Koha doesn't have any support for it.
12:49 magnuse        BISMARC, DANMARC... the list goes on...
12:49 mtompset       http://www.rba.ru/rusmarc/rusmarc_e.html
12:49 * mtompset     cringes.
12:49 magnuse        some countries have taken to their senses and adopted AMRC21, though
12:49 mtompset       Do standards have to be so political?
12:51 jcamins        mtompset: my sources say yes.
12:51 jcamins        :(
12:51 oleonard       There's nothing political about us being right and everyone else being wrong is there?
12:51 mtompset       Sadly, it is so.
12:52 mtompset       oleonard, I sense a tongue-in-cheek comment in there. :P
12:53 mtompset       Speak softly, carry a big stick?
12:56 mtompset       Almost... indexed....
12:56 mtompset       What sort of speeds do you normally experience with your zebra indexing?
12:57 mtompset       How long does a full reindex take? minutes with # records?
12:58 jcamins        mtompset: that's a good question!
12:58 jcamins        I actually don't know.
12:58 magnuse        mtompset: depends a lot on your hardware, i think?
12:58 mtompset       true,... okay, time, # records, size of ram, machine speed.
12:59 * magnuse      doesn't have any numbers
12:59 magnuse        kia ora libsysguy!
12:59 libsysguy      hi magnuse
12:59 libsysguy      whats happening
13:00 magnuse        we, kohacon just happenede for some lucky people
13:00 magnuse        for me personally, a baby happened quite recently :-)
13:01 libsysguy      wow congratulations
13:01 magnuse        thanks!
13:01 libsysguy      babies seem to be happening all over koha
13:01 magnuse        ter
13:01 libsysguy      I think bag is next
13:01 magnuse        ooh!
13:01 libsysguy      8 days I think
13:01 magnuse        oh, nice
13:02 magnuse        future bidders for kohacon might have to include kindergarten facilities in their proposals :-)
13:02 libsysguy      heh
13:03 * libsysguy    wishes he could have gone to kohacon
13:03 mtompset       Just did a rebuild_zebra -b -a -r -v ... 39398 biblio 260 authority, 204MB, 2.4GHZ, .... it took (retiming it now)
13:03 oleonard       magnuse: That would have made my presence more likely!
13:04 oleonard       Me in conference, the kids in daycare, my wife being a tourist. Everyone happy.
13:04 libsysguy      mtompset you should probably go make a sandwich if you are timing it
13:04 mtompset       it's about 2/3 done.
13:05 libsysguy      still enough time for a few sandwiches then :p
13:05 magnuse        libsysguy: when i clone your koha-catalyst repo and run script/koha_server.pl and visit http://localhost:3000/ i get a "Welcome to the world of Catalyst" page - is that what is supposed to happen?
13:05 * mtompset     grins.
13:05 magnuse        oleonard: sounds good, i think?!?
13:06 libsysguy      magnuse I haven't set a default home page yet
13:06 libsysguy      you should go to http://localhost:3000/tools/overduerules
13:07 magnuse        libsysguy: ah, very cool! thanks
13:07 libsysguy      I haven't written any of the mutators yet so you can't actually write
13:07 libsysguy      lame, I know, but I want to make sure I have a solid database schema for that table before I implement anything
13:07 libsysguy      but im pumped you are checking it out
13:08 magnuse        i know nothing about catalyst (except for quickly reading the first third of "The Definitive Guide to Catalyst") but it does look interesting
13:09 libsysguy      it is really interesting, I am just hoping it will help reign in the codebase
13:10 libsysguy      Can we just call it Koha V5.0 for now :p
13:11 mtompset       Just did a rebuild_zebra -b -a -r -v ... 39398 biblio 260 authority, 204MB, 2.4GHZ, .... it took ~7:40
13:12 mtompset       Probably would have been faster if we had more ram... there were 45K minor page faults.
13:17 Barrc          Hi guys.....does anyone have much experience with multiple instances of Koha on the same box? I see there is a doc on the Wiki but it isn't closed to how I would do it so am wondering if anyone has any thoughts?
13:18 magnuse        Barrc: the easiest way to do it is to run the packages on debian
13:18 jcamins        Barrc: use packages.
13:18 jcamins        It's easy.
13:18 magnuse        that gives you some nice scripts for creating new instances etc
13:18 magnuse        Barrc: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.8_on_Debian_Squeeze
13:18 jcamins        ^^ what he said.
13:19 Barrc          Super, thanks!
13:33 * wizzyrea     waves
13:35 vkm            is there any way to restrict user catogory wise for online purchase sugession
13:36 jcamins        Not to my knowledge, no.
13:36 nengard        nope
13:36 * jcamins      considers using a chroot for testing the installation.
13:36 oleonard       Hi wizzyrea
13:37 samuel         is there any way to get ldap entry with a search base on user id ?
13:39 libsysguy      samuel: do you mean match the userid in koha to the CN in ldap?
13:41 mtompset       "<owen> I'm a crazed branch-creating maniac" is this you, oleonard?
13:41 samuel         libsysguy: the idea is ->connect to ldap >search base on user id ->retrieve cn-> compare password->get the ldap entry
13:41 jcamins        mtompset: yes that is.
13:41 oleonard       mtompset: Yes
13:41 samuel         i've seen there http://blog.mbek.net/2009/01/previously-i-make-some-troubleshooting.html
13:41 libsysguy      samuel yeah I do that now
13:41 libsysguy      but koha doesn't support it
13:41 libsysguy      and its a pain
13:42 libsysguy      but i can share the code I wrote with you
13:42 * jcamins      tries to talk himself out of using chroot for testing Koha installation.
13:42 libsysguy      are you running git or packages?
13:42 mtompset       I thought koha supported LDAP authentication.
13:42 libsysguy      mtompset it does
13:42 samuel         libsysguy: yes, we discuss in PM
13:43 jcamins        mtompset: apparently there are an infinite number of ways LDAP can be configured.
13:43 libsysguy      mtompset just not in the way samuel is talking about
13:43 jcamins        mtompset: I have been amazed at how many different configurations there are.
13:43 mtompset       Is this another political standard problem?
13:44 jcamins        mtompset: I think some of the LDAP options are MS vs. not MS.
13:46 mtompset       Is this going to be a similar problem with SAML 2.0 work that may or may not be under way?
13:48 * jcamins      finds his battle to talk himself out of setting up a chroot to be going badly.
13:48 mbalmer        back.
13:49 mtompset       Why not just a VM, jcamins?
13:49 mbalmer        speaking of MARC, I favour BALMERMARC ;)
13:49 mtompset       It's simpler than a chroot setup.
13:49 mtompset       (I would think)
13:50 mbalmer        and now I stop working and commute home… see you on the other side...
13:50 jcamins        mtompset: a VM inside a VM is pushing it.
13:50 wajasu         jacamins: i'll pastebin my shell script that builds a VM if you want to give it a try.
13:50 mtompset       oh, nested VM's ugly.
13:51 jcamins        mtompset: I'm not sure I know how to set up a VM without any user intervation.
13:51 jcamins        wajasu: I'd *love* to see it.
13:51 mtompset       Dumb question... why not a separate VM on the same host?
13:52 mtompset       It only took me 1.5 hours to get an Ubuntu VM set up under Windows 7.
13:52 wajasu         no user intervention.  but you have to have your bridge to ineternet setup already, and libvirt installed/working on your host os
13:52 samuel         mtompset: why do you want a separate vm?
13:53 mtompset       because nested VMs is ugly.
13:53 jcamins        mtompset: because part of the idea of testing is that I want to reset the VM prior to running the installation, every time, and I'm using VirtualBox for my VMs, which doesn't have a nice programmatic interface the way vmware does.
13:53 mtompset       Oh... you don't like manually recloning?
13:54 jcamins        mtompset: eventually my release-tool script will be run daily.
13:54 jcamins        With cron.
13:54 jcamins        'Cause I can.
13:54 mtompset       Ah... hence the need for no user intervention.
13:57 jcamins        Exactly.
13:57 jcamins        My long-term goal is to have continuous integration in place for my clients.
13:57 wajasu         letme run it to test.  do you have libvirt installed?
13:57 jcamins        Not yet, but I will shortly. :)
13:58 mtompset       continuous integration from where?
13:58 jcamins        mtompset: My own release branch.
13:58 wajasu         that gives me time to pastebin the scripts/files.
13:59 mtompset       So a development install, but git from your branch?
13:59 jcamins        mtompset: no, I use packages.
13:59 jcamins        release-tool.pl builds the packages.
13:59 * magnuse      cheers loudly for bug 8233
13:59 jcamins        https://github.com/jcamins/release-tools
13:59 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8233 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , New search engine layer - introduce solr without breaking anything else
14:00 * jcamins      joins magnuse in the cheering.
14:00 jcamins        I hate Windows.
14:00 jcamins        windows--
14:01 mtompset       Why do you hate windows?
14:01 jcamins        mtompset: a minute and a half after booting it up, it informed me that I had to reboot.
14:01 wizzyrea       ^^ most. annoying. thing. ever.
14:01 libsysguy      I hate windows for the same reason I hate comic sans
14:02 libsysguy      it doesn't work with anything
14:02 wajasu         jcamins: are you on a cpu such that you can use kvm (for performance)?
14:02 mtompset       oh shoot.
14:02 mtompset       It's the first tuesday of the month.
14:02 jcamins        wajasu: I am not, though I may need to get a desktop, in which case I'll be able to use it on that.
14:03 jcamins        mtompset: no it's not. It's the second.
14:03 mtompset       Is it the first or second that MS does their monthly pushes?
14:04 jeff           the second tuesday. today is patch tuesday.
14:04 wajasu         jcamins: you will need a debian netinstall iso, so i hope your bridge give you internet access,  debian-6.0.5-amd64-netinst.iso
14:04 jcamins        Ugh. That means it's going to demand that I restart my computer *again* in a few minutes.
14:05 * mtompset     tries to comfort jcamins.
14:05 * libsysguy    runs osx then parallels for windows
14:06 libsysguy      makes restarts less painful
14:06 mtompset       Actually, it means the shutdown will be 10 minutes, and the reboot up will be 10 minutes. ;)
14:06 jcamins        libsysguy: I rarely boot up Windows. It's just in a VM.
14:06 libsysguy      lol thats why it needs so many patchs
14:07 libsysguy      you're probably still getting patches for those stuxnet holes :p
14:07 mtompset       actually, FLAME is the new STUXNET.
14:07 libsysguy      oh yeah I read about that yesterday
14:08 mtompset       Actually, the only true solution to this virus mess is to virtualize EVERYTHING.
14:09 libsysguy      http://i.qkme.me/36c6o2.jpg
14:10 * wizzyrea     applauds
14:10 wizzyrea       libsysguy?
14:10 wahanui        libsysguy is Koha's hottest developer or partying with swedes on his deck
14:10 * wizzyrea     nods
14:10 libsysguy      heh
14:11 mtompset       Loved that graphic!
14:11 mtompset       "Virtualize all the servers!"
14:11 wizzyrea       so much that it made you leave? :)
14:11 wizzyrea       or you snorted coffee on your keyboard
14:11 wizzyrea       which is what nearly happened to me.
14:11 mtompset       Actually, I opened the image... but it should have been in a new tab. And back disconnected me.
14:12 wizzyrea       doh!
14:12 * jcamins      curses .NET.
14:12 * mtompset     laughs.
14:12 jcamins        In what way was .NET a good idea?
14:12 mtompset       A common runtime library is a good idea in theory.
14:13 mtompset       Makes maintaining the Visual Studio suite easier. ;)
14:13 jcamins        Ah. Right.
14:13 jcamins        Unfortunately, installing it is non-trivial.
14:13 mtompset       And could break things which are dependent on it.
14:14 jcamins        I successfully downloaded all the .NET files, and now it's just kind of spinning doing nothing.
14:15 * jcamins      tries Windows Update in IE.
14:15 * oleonard     offers jcamins a satchel packed with garlic and silver bullets
14:15 jcamins        oleonard: thanks!
14:16 mtompset       That only works under XP... Vista and 7 integrate windows update.
14:16 jcamins        It won't cancel the installation either.
14:16 mtompset       Nope.
14:17 * mtompset     hands jcamins a stake in the shape of a holy cross.
14:17 jcamins        Argh!
14:17 mtompset       And better take some gold-dust just incase the cybermen are involved. ;)
14:18 * mtompset     thinks the old school cybermen would beat up the new school cybermen easy.
14:18 wajasu         jcamins: if you use my script, you could tweak the libvirt virsh command to create the vm machine to use other targets than kvm, such as lxc, qcow2, etc
14:19 mtompset       "< owen> If your vendor calls it KOHA you know it's not really Koha." -- is that why you got on my case about KOHA when we first met, oleonard? ;)
14:20 wajasu         jcamins: one other thing, is i have a dnsmasq handing out ip adresses, so my vm uses dhcp.
14:21 wajasu         jcamins: on the bridged network.
14:22 jcamins        wajasu: I can tweak it if it doesn't work with my system.
14:23 oleonard       mtompset: Partly, yes. The other fact is that the name of the software is Koha, not KOHA.
14:24 wajasu         jcamins: ok bldkohavm.sh is a shell script, which reads the debian iso, and a preseed.cfg file and writes an image to boot as a cdrom install.
14:25 pastebot       "wajasu" at pasted "bldkohavm.sh early release shell script that builds a virtual machine (kvm) squeeze+" (41 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/447
14:25 mtompset       I was thinking kOhA would be nice to call it. It's case-insensitive in my address bar. ;)
14:26 wajasu         jcamins: now i am trying to figure out how to upload the preseed.cfg
14:27 oleonard       mtompset: The software already has a name, thanks.
14:28 * jcamins      tries installing .NET again.
14:28 pastebot       "wajasu" at pasted "preseed.cfg that drives non-interactive debian squeeze koha-common install." (501 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/448
14:31 jcamins        Hm. # indicates a comment?
14:31 wajasu         jcamins: you must edit bldkohavm.sh and tweak to point to your ISO, and preseed.cfg.  I had mine in /tmp, because it is /dev/shm memory for speed.  # is comment in shell script.
14:34 wajasu         after you run that script, you have a new iso, that is called debian-6.0.5-amd64-netinst-koha.iso, which when booted in the cdrom will auto install debian, and grab all the koha-common, dependencies.  it takes 5 minutes on my box, probably 20 on yours.
14:34 jcamins        wajasu: but what about in preseed.cfg? Is # a comment on that?
14:34 jcamins        *in that
14:35 wajasu         yes those are comments
14:35 jcamins        Thanks.
14:43 pastebot       "wajasu" at pasted "koha-vm-builder.sh early-release: using libvirt command line, boot installs the koha debian auto-install image. using a bridge br1, and virt-type=kvm" (82 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/449
14:46 wajasu         jcamins: i've got an appointment in 20minutes.  but will be back in 2-3 hours and can help give support later today.
14:47 jcamins        wajasu: thanks for sharing!
14:47 wajasu         i'm using libvirt, because we can leverage/target lvm, lxc, kvm, etc.
14:49 wajasu         the thing i was successful in was booting, then adding git, and then kohaclone, with a koha-dev running against the same database.
14:49 mtompset       So, jcamins, why use packages over a git install?
14:51 jcamins        mtompset: maintenance.
14:51 wajasu         the user:pass is koha-biblio/koh-biblio  see /etc/koha/passwd.
14:52 wajasu         really everything is driven in the preseed.cfg
14:54 wajasu         i was also able to use sshfs to mount my kohaclone git on my host OS, and added another apache virtual host pointing to that, using the same database. so i can code in my host os.
14:54 jcamins        That last part is pretty cool.
14:54 jcamins        mtompset: with packages, I don't have to worry about upgrades going wrong.
14:54 jcamins        With git, I do.
14:56 wajasu         yes.  and i was going to just add a script in the vm that you run to support git development. and a commented sshfs line in fstab.
14:57 wajasu         i had another idea:  using autofs and sshfs to autmount my git dev environment upon accesssing a certain directory in the VM.
14:58 wajasu         and i wonder if i accessed something like  /home/koha/bugNNNN, that it would automount, and sent the git command to switch to that branch. AND show the current git branch in my command prompt :)
14:58 jcamins        Ooh. That'd be pretty slick.
15:02 wajasu         ...and create instances of the database like koha-bugNNNN as needed or using koha-create or such.  so a flxible kohadev VM can happen.
15:03 wajasu         you can then run this from jenkins, and do continous integration.
15:03 jcamins        :)
15:03 jcamins        That's my kind of idea. :)
15:05 wajasu         if you had all the perl packages  ????-perl that are in the koha-common  to the preseed file, the auto install could do that part if one did not want to use koha common.
15:06 wajasu         we all want the same thing.   a solid dev environment, that we can trust the integrity for patches/QA and saves time to refactor/code.
15:08 wajasu         you could even expose your VM on the internet and collaborate with another koha dev, and let them sign in or expose the VNC session to share it.
15:10 Oak            \o
15:11 wajasu         now if all these features were in a koha-dev vm, folks could collaborate even more.  and the wiki could walk them through.
15:13 mtompset       Woo hoo! It worked.
15:13 mtompset       Now tomorrow, I shall attempt an upgrade for the first time. :)
15:13 mtompset       Hi, Oak.
15:14 * mtompset     waves good bye.
15:14 Oak            hello mtompset :)
15:14 * wajasu       there was much cheer and jubulation
15:36 reiveune       bye
15:36 * wajasu       back in a couple of hours
17:48 nengard        Is there a problem with the RFC template?
17:48 nengard        http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Enhancements_to_the_display_of_extended_patron_attributes_in_circ
17:48 nengard        http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Claimed_Returned_RFC
17:48 nengard        if you edit those pages they have content - but they show up as blank
17:48 cait           hm we might have broken it
17:48 nengard        we?
17:48 wahanui        we are very happy 3.6.3 users now
17:48 nengard        heh
17:49 cait           kyleh had accidently put a new page into the template
17:49 nengard        oh
17:49 cait           and dobrica tried to fix it
17:49 nengard        hmmm
17:49 cait           probably something went wrong
17:49 cait           but I don't know anything about how the templates work :(
17:49 nengard        yeah me either
17:49 nengard        maybe i'll email the list
17:53 Oak            you did \o/
17:54 cait           ?
17:54 cait           Oak?
17:54 wahanui        i guess Oak is Arslan. I am a student doing masters in Library Science (2nd semester). I am a web developer and work in Joomla. or good
17:55 Oak            she emailed the list
17:56 Oak            never mind
17:56 Oak            cait?
17:56 wahanui        That's Ms. Cait to you! or in a very good mood today :) or a librarian, you will get wahanui's information or a hero
17:57 cait           hm?
17:58 Oak            time changes everything
17:58 drojf          hi #koha
17:59 mbalmer        hi drojf...
17:59 mbalmer        all got back home safe?
18:00 cait           hi drojf
18:00 cait           home safe?
18:03 drojf          hi mbalmer and cait! safe yes, but with delay and a later flight
18:03 cait           ah
18:03 mbalmer        oh that sucks...
18:03 cait           hope everything goes well for me tomorrow
18:04 cait           don't want to be stuck in zürich
18:04 mbalmer        still in edin, cait?
18:04 cait           yeah
18:04 cait           my flight is tomorrow
18:04 mbalmer        cool
18:04 cait           <- vacation ;)
18:04 drojf          but i met dpavlin and mglavica and had a last ale before the flight ;)
18:05 cait           oooh nice :)
18:06 drojf          would have been nice to get some voucher for refreshments from lufthansa in düsseldorf though, i ate only a pretzel since breakfast
18:06 drojf          but well, another beer on the second flight :D
18:06 drojf          i think i am 2 hours later now than planned, lost track of that a little
18:06 cait           2 hours is not all that bad
18:06 cait           I got to nz 24 hours late last time ;)
18:06 drojf          no!
18:06 drojf          bah
18:07 drojf          yeah it was ok, they seem to fly often frim ddorf to berlin
18:07 drojf          from
18:08 francharb      hey all
18:08 rangi          hey its my robot friend francharb !
18:08 francharb      delayed (hopefully) bags in my case
18:08 francharb      hi rangi
18:08 cait           oh
18:08 francharb      but at least i'm home
18:09 cait           didn't get them at the airprort?
18:09 francharb      nope
18:09 francharb      and they didn't know where they were
18:09 drojf          it seemed all flights were delayed at some point
18:09 francharb      maybe in amsterdam (my connection flight)
18:09 rangi          oh man, you have caught my lost luggage disease
18:09 francharb      cross fingers for getting them tonight or tomorrow!
18:10 francharb      ahah
18:10 cait           francharb: at least lots of flights between there and home... hope you get them soon
18:10 francharb      I looks like that
18:10 francharb      I hope too
18:10 drojf          it's probably better to lose them on the way back
18:10 * liw          mentions his favorite travel website ever: http://www.onebag.com/
18:10 cait           they lost mine too when coming back from nz :P
18:10 cait           so it originated from me maybe
18:10 francharb      drojf++
18:10 * drojf        is happy that all luggage and ales are here with me :D
18:10 francharb      that's right
18:10 wahanui        I know.
18:11 francharb      hehe
18:11 francharb      and the principal is with me (my computer) so...
18:11 drojf          21kg, 6kg more than on the way to edinburgh!
18:11 drojf          francharb: yes at least you can wait online ;)
18:12 francharb      :)
18:12 drojf          cait: whats happening in edinburgh tonight?
18:12 francharb      And I've been able to prepare my meeting tomorrow.... :)
18:12 francharb      I need to book my train tickets by the way
18:12 francharb      bbl
18:14 oleonard       Are you home rangi ?
18:14 rangi          nope
18:15 rangi          i catch a bus at 3am to the mare port
18:15 francharb      0_0
18:15 rangi          then 7 zillion hours later
18:15 rangi          i get home
18:15 drojf          heh
18:15 liw            range, 3am? ouch
18:15 liw            rangi, even
18:15 rangi          yeah, im having words with the travel agent when i get back
18:15 liw            rangi, then you have time for one of the Edinburgh night-time underground horror zombie vampire serial killer tours? :)
18:15 rangi          early flight ... then 14 hours in singapore ...
18:16 cait           drojf: sleep soon I think :) went shopping with rangi today, lots of walking ... *glares at rangi*
18:16 rangi          hehe
18:16 rangi          liw: robin did one of those last night
18:16 rangi          we did a literary pub tour earlier too
18:16 rangi          which was a lot of fun
18:16 liw            nice
18:17 rangi          its a lovely city
18:17 liw            were deep-fried mars bars consumed?
18:17 drojf          funny that marijana told me alcohol would lessen the pressure problems while flying but i lost almost all hearing on the right ear after having an ale
18:17 * oleonard     is jealous of your long spell in Edinburgh
18:17 cait           yep - and they talked loud and clear too , good for me :) (literary pub tour)
18:17 drojf          the pub tour was really nice
18:17 rangi          liw: nope, but i ate about 7 more teacakes than i probably should have
18:18 cait           heh
18:18 francharb      It's like it was a pub tour everyday...
18:18 cait           he didn't share with us!
18:18 liw            rangi, good, the mars bars are not a good idea :)
18:18 cait           deserves you right :P
18:18 rangi          and my bloodstream is now irn bru
18:18 francharb      rangi, I wanted to try this but didn't have time
18:18 francharb      so tonight, if you can
18:18 drojf          rangi: fiery irn bru? ;)
18:18 francharb      try a deep-fried mars bar
18:18 francharb      it sounds like a local treat
18:19 drojf          francharb: have you seen it somewhere? i only read about it
18:19 rangi          i think ill just be going to sleep soon
18:19 francharb      drojf, yep
18:19 francharb      near grass marke
18:19 francharb      t
18:19 rangi          but we have deep fried moro bars in nz
18:19 drojf          i bet it's strangely delicious
18:19 rangi          ive had one of those
18:19 francharb      and they have deep fried pizza as well
18:19 rangi          its incredibly messy
18:19 francharb      I bet
18:19 francharb      :)
18:20 francharb      I wish I had tested this...
18:20 drojf          try it at home
18:20 francharb      maybe one day!
18:20 francharb      drojf, hehe
18:20 drojf          i suppose you have mars bars
18:20 drojf          in france i mean
18:20 cait           francharb: what about meeting again here next yeear? :)
18:20 rangi          heh
18:20 drojf          or talk to mveron and try to make it in the dishwasher :D
18:20 cait           I skipped the fish and chips...
18:20 cait           and the chocolate fudge cake
18:21 francharb      I need to find a fryer
18:21 cait           drojf: heh
18:21 francharb      and yep drojf, we have mars bars
18:21 francharb      :)
18:21 rangi          we did have indian food tho, you cant get much more scottish than that :)
18:21 drojf          cait: i also missed the fudge store
18:21 francharb      rangi, that's right!
18:21 drojf          not enough time for sweetseeing
18:21 cait           drojf: rangi pointed that out ot me today... but I should have bought more
18:22 drojf          i should have gone at all
18:22 francharb      The funny thing is I like indian food better in the UK than in India....
18:22 francharb      weird...
18:22 wahanui        weird is normal after a while :)
18:22 drojf          but i have my ales. i think that will make me quite happy
18:22 francharb      :)
18:22 cait           they had those little pieses on plates for testing
18:22 drojf          ooooh
18:22 rangi          we found the fudge and whisky stores today, much joy was had by all :)
18:22 cait           I bought one block and took a little piece before I wnet out... had to go straight back into the shop to buy another
18:22 drojf          hahahaha
18:22 * drojf        is jealous
18:22 mbalmer        in these scottish stores they sold condoms with a whisky taste, strange guys, these scots...
18:23 francharb      cait, the fudge house?
18:23 cait           hm no I think something with candy in the name
18:23 drojf          oh not the fudge house? ok, then we can go again together. next year or so ;)
18:24 francharb      mbalmer, just next to the whisky condom, you can also but a 4£ fake vagina...
18:24 francharb      realllly strange
18:24 drojf          francharb: with whiskey taste?
18:24 francharb      sorry for sharring that
18:24 francharb      by the way
18:24 drojf          lol
18:24 * mbalmer      wonders in which store francharb was...
18:24 francharb      a random pub
18:24 francharb      :)
18:25 francharb      but for sure, we could doubt that
18:25 francharb      but I swear it was in a pub!
18:25 francharb      :)
18:25 drojf          yes they had condom machines often, i never had a look. should have, seems to be interesting ;)
18:25 mbalmer        but for 4 pound, you can get a real whisky ;)
18:26 francharb      i should have take a picture
18:26 francharb      mbalmer, and it's way more fun!
18:26 drojf          i wonder when my hearing will return, it gets irritating.
18:27 cait           dring some beer?
18:27 francharb      s/some/lot
18:27 cait           it broke after you had the ale... so ale might fix it ,)
18:27 francharb      and forget eveyrthing
18:27 francharb      ;)
18:27 * rangi        has 4 beers from slef
18:27 drojf          that would make everything less irritating at least :D
18:28 rangi          but all safely packed away
18:28 francharb      time for diner here!
18:28 mbalmer        is evergreen a good ils?
18:28 rangi          yup
18:28 francharb      for those who travel today or tomorrow, travel safe!
18:28 drojf          mbalmer: fed up with the koha crowd already?
18:28 rangi          thanks francharb
18:28 mbalmer        drojf, not at all.
18:29 drojf          or is there an evergreen conference in some nice place? ;)
18:29 francharb      see ya!
18:29 drojf          bye francharb
18:29 drojf          bon appetit
18:29 francharb_afk  :)
18:29 francharb_afk  thanks
18:29 mbalmer        drojf, they use pg and qt, two nice things.
18:30 cait           I think it is a nice ils
18:30 mbalmer        is it used a lot?
18:30 drojf          i only remember they were lacking acquisition when i looked for a system for us
18:30 cait           lots of libraries in US do
18:31 mbalmer        imo, koha has the huge advantage of a large and vibrant community
18:31 rangi          http://www.librarytechnology.org/map.pl?ILS=Evergreen
18:32 rangi          http://www.librarytechnology.org/map.pl?ILS=Koha
18:33 drojf          wow that is extremely north america centered, i didn't know
18:33 * oleonard     wonders if Evergreen has good i18n features
18:33 cait           drojf: I think they have acq and serials now
18:33 drojf          yes i think so too
18:33 drojf          but we are not gonna change now ;)
18:33 cait           back when we (BSZ) started looking at koha and evergreen they hadn't
18:33 mbalmer        oleonard, it must, since it is based on qt.
18:34 drojf          the koha map looks way more balanced and nicer
18:34 drojf          not the system's fault though i guess
18:34 wizzyrea       well evergreen was commissioned for a huge library system in Georgia US
18:34 drojf          none in greenland. yet
18:35 * drojf        claims the artic
18:35 wizzyrea       so it's got a distinct north american bias in terms of who exactly it serves
18:35 drojf          arctic even
18:35 wizzyrea       (at the moment)
18:39 drojf          alright, will try to get some scampi done and put on a salad. bbl
18:39 rangi          http://untappd.com/user/ranginui
18:39 drojf          those that still have to travel, have a safe and not too long way back
18:40 rangi          my trip, in beers
18:40 * cait         rolls eyes at the nz beer snobs ;)
18:40 drojf          i wish i had done that, then i would remember what all i had
18:40 drojf          i remember abbott ale in the airport ;)
18:40 drojf          i think its spelled wrong
18:41 rhcl           on librarytechnology.org, is it possible to view a country with the ILSs used there? I can't seem to find a link that will let me do that
18:42 rangi          not with the map
18:42 rangi          but you can do a search in libwebcats
18:43 oleonard       The distribution of Koha on the map really is a beautiful sight to behold.
18:43 rangi          http://librarytechnology.org/libwebcats/
18:44 bag            cool rangi I like tracking a trip in beers :)
18:44 cait           oleonard: thereis only one flaw with the map - not enough entries for germany yet :)
18:45 mbalmer        we will change that ;P
18:45 oleonard       I'd like to see more in Eastern Europe, Russia, and Asia
18:45 cait           drojf should enter his library :)
18:45 cait           *hint*
18:46 cait           oleonard: asia... hm... you should go on a mission there and fix it :)
18:48 * oleonard     wonders if China has a state-mandated ILS
18:49 rangi          https://mmitblog.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/kohacon-2012/ <-- nice blog post from kate
18:56 cait           :)
18:57 mbalmer        my next iteration of MARC support in PostgreSQL will be able to directly read in MARC files using the so-called foreign data wrappers.
18:58 mbalmer        PostgreSQL++
18:58 wajasu         nice
19:01 drojf          cait: i'm pretty sure i did
19:01 drojf          enter my library i mean
19:01 cait           ah
19:01 cait           didn't check lately
19:02 drojf          and pretended to be using koha love already ;)
19:02 * cait         checks the map
19:03 drojf          i did not put much info in yet but it should know where we are
19:04 drojf          yeah, huge salad. i missed that in edinburgh. should have gone to an italian restaurant maybe
19:05 cait           you seemed happy enough with beer :)
19:05 jcamins_away   Mmm. Salad.
19:05 cait           and you are rehabilitated - the library is on the map :)
19:05 jcamins_away   We're going to have a nice salad for dinner tonight. :)
19:05 cait           jcamins_away: I made a fudge photo for you!
19:05 jcamins_away   It's a co-op night!
19:05 jcamins_away   cait: oh?
19:05 cait           yeah, it's still on my phone tho
19:06 cait           we found a fudge store... and I should so have bought more.. *sigh*
19:06 oleonard       Alright, no more procrastinating. Time to get the jquery datepicker working on the holiday calendar
19:06 cait           yayQ
19:06 jcamins_away   Oh, the one on the royal mile?
19:06 * cait         cheers oleonard on
19:06 cait           the new tabs are very nice and shiny
19:06 cait           hm not sure
19:06 cait           rangi found it
19:06 cait           I think it was somewhere around the grassmarket
19:07 cait           I got a block of baileys and a block of caramell
19:07 jcamins_away   Mmm.
19:07 liw            cait, what you need is someone who's willing to send you tinned fudge by mail, obviously
19:07 oleonard       Fudge is a thing there?
19:07 mbalmer        I want to be able to do select marc_field(marc21', '245$a') to get at MARC subfields, and I need a syntax to set marc fields.
19:08 cait           oleonard: yep
19:08 cait           and liw: sounds exensive... but yes...:)
19:09 * wizzyrea     gives oleonard something healthy to fuel him on
19:09 cait           wizzyrea: fudge is not healthy?
19:09 jcamins_away   cait: only if it has chocolate in it.
19:11 jcamins_away   That's why I always make chocolate fudge varieties.
19:12 * jcamins_away respects his wife's goal to eat healthy.
19:14 cait           lol
19:14 cait           then it's not healty what I bought :)
19:14 cait           will keep it all to myself so noone else gets endangered
19:15 jcamins_away   This is why I make *chocolate* Bailey's fudge.
19:15 jcamins_away   :D
19:15 drojf          lol
19:26 rangi          hey eythian
19:26 wahanui        eythian is in NZ. ;) or a good influence
19:26 eythian        hi
19:26 eythian        thought you'd gone to sleep
19:26 * cait         waves
19:26 eythian        hello
19:26 wahanui        what's up, eythian
19:27 drojf          hi eythian
19:27 rangi          sposta be, but my brain is not cooperating
19:29 eythian        ah right
19:29 eythian        did you want to leave me your SIM card for Stacey?
19:29 eythian        hi drojf
19:30 rangi          ahh actually i was gonna use it at heathrow
19:31 eythian        oh right
20:10 * oleonard     is pleased with the drastic reduction in complexity the jqueryUI datepicker will bring
20:12 jcamins        Reduced_complexity++
20:15 * oleonard     might actually get this one submitted tomorrow.
20:15 oleonard       Until then #koha
20:15 * oleonard     waves
20:28 roygbivovac    hi
20:28 wahanui        salut, roygbivovac
20:29 roygbivovac    I've got this trivial question...
20:29 wizzyrea       shoot :)
20:31 roygbivovac    I'm trying to install koha on a virtual machine,I need to type the upside down hat like this  lamp-server^, How can I type it?
20:34 roygbivovac    ok got it - shift 6
20:41 mbalmer        hmm, we got more patches in koha than we got koha customers, we ate doing sth wrong in .ch, I guess ;)
20:41 mbalmer        s/ate/are/
21:10 mbalmer        in the long term, any compley database application probably has to settle on one database server system.
22:14 dpavlin        I'm back from kohacon and I'm still amazed how you can read e-mails all day but when you really meet people they are so much more! This goes for you all. Thanks everybody!