Time  Nick                 Message
23:26 drojf                better get some sleep. good night
23:04 * jcamins_away       kills his terminal by mistake.
23:02 jcamins_away         Aaaand, that didn't work.
23:01 jcamins_away         I'm sending a 640x480 video. The PIP said "just go and die."
23:01 slef                 my own laptop does not seem to like that display
23:00 slef                 bit me this morning
23:00 jcamins_away         Yep. :)
23:00 slef                 display is as described on email
23:00 jcamins_away         Okay, thanks.
23:00 slef                 I think we have mplayer if I have the same laptop as this afternoon so whatever you think
22:59 jcamins_away         slef: mpg/ogg/what would you like?
22:59 slef                 jcamins_away: yep, am still here, but switching windows slowly
22:57 jcamins_away         Maybe... one ogg theora/vorbis option, and one mpg/mp3 option?
22:55 drojf                from a free software point of view i would say ogg theora/ vorbis, but that is just me.
22:54 jcamins_away         drojf: both.
22:54 drojf                jcamins_away: video or audio?
22:53 jcamins_away         (MPG, OGG, etc.)
22:51 jcamins_away         What format do you prefer the presentations in?
22:51 jcamins_away         slef: I'm having some transcoding issues, but I think I've got it licked.
22:51 drojf                slef: is there some place now where we collect all presentations?
22:51 jcamins_away         slef: are you still here?
22:44 drojf                had to finish my slides, took way longer than i thought :/
22:43 slef                 where were youuuuu?
22:43 drojf                i have a presentation now for tomorrow ;)
22:43 drojf                hope you all had a nice musical evening
22:43 drojf                hey slef
22:43 slef                 hi drojf
22:39 wahanui              the sky is, like, the limit
22:39 slef                 wahanui: the sky
22:38 slef                 the sky
22:38 wahanui              what's up, slef
22:38 slef                 hi
22:19 wajasu               ok git clone just over 1GB
22:03 shari                goodbye, all!
22:02 wajasu               it will be nice for trying out difference distributions, or perl versions, etc.  i can't wait to try to run  koha unit tests.
22:01 YoungPublicLibrarian Okay, I was wrong...the report I thought was perfect was missing a few things...So, Wizzyrea, still willing to help?
21:55 wajasu               does anyone know how big a git clone is in megabytes.  I need to know off hand for my kvm image size build.
21:54 wajasu               i saw that contribs. and i'll do that.  (one shell script to run).  its runs under my archlinux just fine.  (it assumes one has configured a bridge to the internet right now, and dhcp assigns an ip address, but that can be added later.
21:52 wizzyrea_mib         that might be cool
21:52 wizzyrea_mib         oh, or, you could ask for push permission to contribs
21:52 wajasu               then later  in the wiki if folks want it.
21:52 jcamins_presenting   :)
21:52 wajasu               yes.  i'll put it in pastebin, when i get the next part done.  git patch support.
21:51 wizzyrea_mib         ^^ this
21:51 jcamins_presenting   wajasu: you should share that. :)
21:51 jcamins_presenting   wajasu: oh, okay.
21:51 wajasu               jcamins_presenting: no livedvd.   just a script that i wrote that pulls abd builds from deb repos, and with a debian preseed file that does all the koha needed cusomizations.
21:50 * wizzyrea_mib       does not spew on druthb
21:50 druthb               oi!  Careful with the spew, wizzyrea...I'm in the line of fire.
21:50 bag                  like wizzyrea_mib is all spy like
21:50 wizzyrea_mib         or the MIB
21:50 * wizzyrea_mib       was in a wow guild once called the "merciless iry brigade"
21:50 wizzyrea_mib         because I'm using a <spew> windows computer
21:50 bag                  I was totally thinking it was Men In Black…
21:49 bag                  heh that's why I thought of you mtj
21:49 mtj                  bag:  short for mibbit..
21:49 mtj                  bag:  not now please!  i'm building my radio-controlled cat-helicopter...
21:49 druthb               m-i-b-bit, bag.
21:49 bag                  wizzyrea_mib: what's m i b ?
21:48 bag                  ;)
21:48 wizzyrea_mib         someone was in earlier having trouble with indexing
21:48 bag                  mtj make sure you have your sound on when you watch that
21:48 wajasu               now, i am working on adding git based dev environment for patches.
21:48 mtj                  wajasu:  congrats...
21:47 jcamins_presenting   wajasu: oh, did you did the livedvd?
21:47 bag                  mtj http://jezebel.com/5916095/teeny-tiny-pig-overcomes-his-fear-of-stairs-to-get-to-a-bowl-of-delicious-oatmeal
21:47 wizzyrea_mib         that would be pretty huge.
21:47 wizzyrea_mib         and bsz\
21:47 wizzyrea_mib         yes, and I think if we got MDAH to turn theirs off
21:47 wajasu               i've got my shell script that can create a debiansqueeze+mysql+apache2+koha-common  (it creates a kvm image file via libvirt/virsh in 5min with debian network install.iso and the image in my /dev/shm  /tmp directory.  upon boot its ready on port 80/8080) .
21:46 mtj                  thats my hunch...?
21:46 mtj                  looking like the short version is... footer links to $your_domain is a no-no ?
21:44 wizzyrea_mib         so that it seems relevant
21:44 wizzyrea_mib         another option would be to give the syspref several different options of what to use as link back
21:44 jcamins_presenting   However, the first part recorded fine.
21:43 wizzyrea_mib         that's common :)
21:43 * jcamins_presenting can't watch himself.
21:42 wizzyrea_mib         it's ALL about relevancy now
21:42 * jcamins_presenting apologizes in advance to the non-native English speakers in Edinburgh.
21:42 wizzyrea_mib         if the link text doesn't contain a keyword it may help, I mean.
21:42 jcamins_presenting   I have the weirdest accent.
21:41 wizzyrea_mib         it *may* help?
21:41 jcamins_presenting   I _do_ say "aboot."
21:41 wizzyrea_mib         I took off the SEO plugin that did a lot of keywords
21:41 jcamins_presenting   Oh my.
21:40 wizzyrea_mib         yep, that was the example that I found that seemed most like ours
21:39 mtj                  thanks $god we can now use our google-anal data to help solve the problem, at least
21:36 mtj                  ... looks like kc.org is in a similar situ to wpmu.org
21:35 mtj                  interesting -> http://www.seomoz.org/blog/how-wpmuorg-recovered-from-the-penguin-update
21:33 * druthb             makes funny faces at jcamins_presenting
21:32 * jcamins            records his presentation.
21:32 magnuse              have fun, #koha!
21:32 magnuse              wow, time to catch some sleep
21:30 druthb               shari++
21:30 druthb               jcamins++
21:28 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7936 major, P5 - low, ---, nengard, Signed Off , general ticket for 3.8 help file updates
21:28 jcamins              There we go. Another followup attached to bug 7936.
21:27 magnuse              wizzyrea++
21:27 YoungPublicLibrarian Yes, thank you Wizzyrea! You have been a great help!
21:26 wizzyrea_mib         later sekjal
21:26 wizzyrea_mib         woot :)
21:26 sekjal               alrighty, time for me to jet off for the night.  cheers, #koha!
21:26 YoungPublicLibrarian Yes and no. I can't get the silly thing to run, but someone else in the consortium took it and tweaked it a bit and now it runs fine. So thanks for the help and I think we got it now!
21:24 wizzyrea_mib         YoungPublicLibrarian: any luck?
21:23 huginn`              druthb: "rangi": 588, "oleonard": 512, "wizzyrea": 342, "jcamins": 318, "gmcharlt": 311, "chris_n": 300, "cait": 291, "sekjal": 237, "paul_p": 226, "nengard": 216, "kf": 186, "magnuse": 166, "slef": 153, "druthb": 145, "eythian": 97, "fredericd": 71, "hdl": 68, "biblibre": 64, "hdl_laptop": 60, "jwagner": 54, "marcelr": 52, "kmkale": 46, "thd": 46, "atz": 44, and "pianohacker": 39
21:23 druthb               @most increased
21:22 huginn`              jcamins: Karma for "jcamins_away" has been increased 14 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 14.
21:22 jcamins              @karma jcamins_away
21:22 huginn`              wizzyrea_mib: Karma for "wizzyrea" has been increased 342 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 342.
21:22 wizzyrea_mib         @karma wizzyrea
21:22 huginn`              jcamins: Karma for "jcamins" has been increased 318 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 317.
21:22 jcamins              @karma jcamins
21:22 wizzyrea_mib         and/or, you just need to take out the line breaks in the report
21:22 druthb               shari++
21:22 wizzyrea_mib         I think you have a rogue space before the report sql
21:22 huginn`              shari: Karma for "shari" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4.
21:22 shari                @karma shari
21:21 huginn`              shari: Highest karma: "rangi" (583), "oleonard" (507), and "wizzyrea" (342).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-109), "failed" (-83), and "-" (-50).
21:21 shari                @karma
21:21 YoungPublicLibrarian Okay, so you think I have a rogue space somewhere?
21:19 wizzyrea_mib         that was for you YoungPublicLibrarian
21:18 wizzyrea_mib         so the problem may be that you have a space at the beginning of the report
21:18 wizzyrea_mib         <<Pick your branch|branches>> is what's in the documentation
21:17 YoungPublicLibrarian *Wizzyrea_mib (sorry, apparently can't type...)
21:16 YoungPublicLibrarian Wizzrea_mib: It did not. It gives me this error - <h1>Software error:</h1>           <pre>Can't use an undefined value as an ARRAY reference at /home/koha/kohaclone/reports/guided_reports.pl line 618.  </pre>             <p>             For help  please send mail to the webmaster (<a href="mailto:staff@bywatersolutions.com">staff@bywatersolutions.com</a>)  gi
21:16 druthb               the 952 formatting is a little tetchy.  if stuff isn't in just the right place, then the items won't get imported.
21:15 atmanning            this last install (3.8 on Ubuntu 10.04) imported with no modification of export from Winnebago, but then I have problems with items showing up in searches
21:14 druthb               atmanning: You'll probably need to rearrange the item data fields some; MARCEdit can do that, or write a little perl script.
21:12 sekjal               atmanning:  sounds like the packages will work very well for you
21:11 wizzyrea_mib         YoungPublicLibrarian: did it work?
21:09 atmanning            I am testing whether this will work to port our library from Winnebago - hoping to import 135K marc records after successful install
21:06 sekjal               atmanning:  are you looking for an installation to test using, or did you want to be edit/add to the code?
21:06 YoungPublicLibrarian Awesome! Thanks Wizzyrea_mib! You've been an awesome help!
21:06 wizzyrea_mib         yep
21:05 jcamins              The 3.6 packages are still on an underpowered server of mine, though.
21:05 YoungPublicLibrarian Okay, so now if I want the borrowers address there as well I can just add things like b.address, b.city, b.state, b.zip...etc? Is that right?
21:05 atmanning            Downloading squeeze now....  Will be testing in virtualbox...
21:04 jcamins              atmanning: yes, that's the best way to do it.
21:04 magnuse              atmanning: "sudo apt-get install koha-common" - that will install all the dependencies
21:04 pastebot             "wizzyrea" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "for YoungPublicLibrarian" (16 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/433
21:03 magnuse              atmanning: on debian you can install with packages: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.8_on_Debian_Squeeze
21:03 jcamins              atmanning: Debian 6.0.5 = Squeeze.
21:03 atmanning            not debian 6.0.5 (latest stable)?
21:03 YoungPublicLibrarian I tried to use the Runtime video as a guide, but it came back with an error when I ran it...
21:02 wizzyrea_mib         one min.
21:02 wizzyrea_mib         YoungPublicLibrarian: ez
21:02 wizzyrea_mib         aha
21:02 wizzyrea_mib         but that's just me
21:02 YoungPublicLibrarian I want to use the generic report for "Fines w/ Patron & Item Info" from the "SQL Reports Library - Koha Wiki", but I want to have it ask to select a branch before running the report.
21:02 wizzyrea_mib         you know, personally, I'd go for 3.6
21:02 druthb               Debian Squeeze.  3.6.x or 3.8.x, dealers' choice.
21:01 atmanning            I thought the live DVD thing was a great deal but I'm not so sure anymore....
21:01 wizzyrea_mib         debian squeeze.
21:01 wizzyrea_mib         most people use debian, and it's got the fewest real gotchas.
21:01 atmanning            Is there a general consensus on the best platform for a fresh install?   I wanted to use Ubuntu 12.04 and Koha 3.8
21:01 wizzyrea_mib         harsh!
21:01 jcamins              Soon to switch to Debian, 'cause I got angry with 12.04, and don't believe in second chances.
21:01 wizzyrea_mib         I run one server on ubuntu, simply because I needed it right away and the OS was already installed :)
21:01 jcamins              I have one production server running Ubuntu 10.04.
21:00 magnuse              (not in production, though)
21:00 * magnuse            too
21:00 * wizzyrea_mib       runs it on ubuntu too
20:59 sekjal               I'm running Koha on Ubuntu right now (as I type)
20:59 jcamins              Though I only use Debian anymore.
20:59 jcamins              I wanted to clarify that Ubuntu was close enough for Debian for Koha work.
20:59 wizzyrea_mib         ^^ this
20:59 sekjal               there is enough divergence in what's in Ubuntu that it can sometimes create surprising 'gotchas'
20:59 wizzyrea_mib         YoungPublicLibrarian: go
20:59 druthb               "Debian variation" != "Debian."
20:59 wizzyrea_mib         it is a debian variant, but not debian :)
20:59 sekjal               atmanning: you are correct
20:59 jcamins              atmanning: no, you are correct. :)
20:59 YoungPublicLibrarian Okay, I have a report question if someone has time...
20:58 atmanning            I thought Ubuntu *is* Debian variation - am I wrong?
20:58 huginn`              druthb: 2 found: #16: "< wizzyrea> i mean, the point of american bacon..." and #17: "<wizzyrea> holy flaming bacon batman!"
20:58 druthb               @quote search bacon
20:58 huginn`              wizzyrea_mib: Quote #23: "<gmcharlt> /msg huginn register nick password" (added by wizzyrea_ at 04:25 PM, August 06, 2009)
20:58 wizzyrea_mib         @quote get 23
20:58 wizzyrea_mib         no, uh....
20:58 huginn`              wizzyrea_mib: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
20:58 wizzyrea_mib         @quote get 123
20:57 jcamins              CentOS is only recommended if you feel that your anticipated lifespan is too long.
20:57 wizzyrea_mib         http://koha-community.org/download-koha/
20:57 druthb               magnuse: you could create a button that says, "delete all these", that actually truncates the table, not just the ones showing on the screen.  that's a good idea.  Suuuuure.
20:57 jcamins              Or Ubuntu.
20:57 jcamins              Debian!
20:57 wizzyrea_mib         most people use debian.
20:57 atmanning            hmm.... the install instructions said cpan for missing dependencies...   I'm happy to try something better supported...  there seem to be several versions floating around.  What is the recommended platform?   CentOS?
20:57 wizzyrea_mib         afaik
20:57 wizzyrea_mib         it's not uniform, magnuse
20:56 jcamins              Koha on Ubuntu is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
20:56 magnuse              is there a preferred way to delete things in the staff client? js-confirmation dialog v.s. an extra html confirmation page v.s. just delete once "delete" is clicked?
20:56 jcamins              ubuntu?
20:56 jcamins              koha on ubuntu?
20:55 jcamins              atmanning: pretty much everything is packaged.
20:55 YoungPublicLibrarian Hello druthb!
20:55 jcamins              atmanning: you wouldn't have needed CPAN.
20:55 * druthb             waves at YoungPublicLibrarian.
20:54 atmanning            did that - I'm now an expert at cpan, but it couldn't resolve them all
20:54 jcamins              They tell you how to install the dependencies.
20:54 jcamins              atmanning: you should always read through the installation instructions.
20:53 atmanning            I'm happy to use something else if I well get better performance long term..    I first tried an install of community version on Ubuntu 12.04 - tons of missing dependencies when running  perl Makefile.PL, backed down to Ubuntu 10.04 - same problems, so I gave up and tried the live DVD 3.2 - big MARC import bug-  now 3.8 live DVD - MARC imports worked ...
20:53 sekjal               atmanning:  yes, the 1/2 screen of messages are the first place to look: will give us some clues as to what's working and what (if anything) is not
20:51 wizzyrea_mib         :)
20:51 jcamins              atmanning: use paste.koha-community.org
20:51 wizzyrea_mib         you can use paste.koha-community.org
20:51 atmanning            you want me to paste the output here?  it's 1/2 a screen of messages... no apparent errors
20:51 jcamins              atmanning: unfortunately, none of us have ever heard of this livecd, so chances are good we won't be able to help much.
20:51 wizzyrea_mib         though I've not ever looked at that dvd before.
20:51 wizzyrea_mib         a good plan :)
20:50 atmanning            I just jumped in trying to get help with a new Koha install - looking for help from wise people here..
20:50 sekjal               atmanning:  are there any error lines output by the script?
20:49 atmanning            the faq referred to the script misc/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra.pl -b -r -v     which I have run a few times
20:49 jcamins              I have absolutely no idea who that is.
20:49 jcamins              Huh.
20:49 atmanning            I had that faq and did run that script (before manually attempting to change the item count on one book and changed location after adding authorized values for LOC) - this is all very confusing grrr...
20:47 atmanning            I found the koha 3.8 live DVD found on sourceforge: sourceforge.net/projects/kohalivedvd-mk/?source=directory
20:47 magnuse              :-)
20:47 wizzyrea_mib         *nod* i know how that goes :)
20:47 magnuse              perhaps on friday?
20:47 magnuse              wizzyrea_mib: nope, things take a little time
20:46 wizzyrea_mib         magnuse - the fam home yet?
20:46 shari                Indeed!
20:46 wizzyrea_mib         ^^
20:46 magnuse              shari: and you have #koha, full of wonderful people
20:46 magnuse              koha_bootcamp++
20:45 magnuse              yay!
20:45 shari                I do have an in-house tutor.
20:45 shari                Perhaps this summer will be a koha bootcamp for me.
20:45 shari                Brain needs a rest now. I'm new at this.
20:45 shari                I'll be working on more patches later, I think.
20:44 jcamins              Where did you get a LiveDVD, BTW?
20:44 jcamins              atmanning: take a look at the FAQ I just linked to.
20:43 atmanning            I can't even seem to be able to manually update my catalog - do I have to run this zebra script every time?  it takes about 1/2 hour!
20:43 wahanui              faq is found at http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/
20:43 jcamins              faq?
20:42 atmanning            I am frustrated with koha after bringing in MARC records nothing is showing up in my catalog - what is wrong?  Using 3.8 that came with the live DVD iso
20:39 magnuse              shari: keep the patches coming and there will be more :-)
20:38 shari                thanks for the karma!
20:36 magnuse              shari++
20:28 mtj                  hi hi yourself :)
20:27 kathryn              and hi mtj!
20:27 kathryn              mtj: good tip!
20:26 mtj                  kathryn, i bet he has more stashed in his top-draw
20:26 magnuse              bencahill: thanks!
20:24 * kathryn            sits by herself and eats the chocolates on eythian's desk
20:24 kathryn              hi everyone especially rangi and eythian :)
20:22 wahanui              confusing is "Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
20:22 trea                 confusing?
20:17 wahanui              patches are on the bug
20:17 shari                patches!
20:17 shari                yay!
20:17 * jcamins            is just about to sign off on a patch by shari. :)
20:15 jcamins              :)
20:15 jcamins              sekjal: I'm glad you like it.
20:11 bencahill_lunch      magnuse: I haven't been on in a while, but congrats! :)
20:09 chris_n              mtj: don't you have work to do? ;-)
20:02 wizzyrea_mib         pop u larity :)
19:58 sekjal               coming up with a more efficient means of getting biblio data may just be a project of it's own
19:58 sekjal               and what you're saying about code atomicity and cleanliness is very valid
19:57 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6557 normal, P3, ---, jcamins, Signed Off , biblioitems.totalissues unused
19:57 magnuse              bug 6557
19:57 sekjal               well documented, clean in it's implementation (nearly surgical)
19:57 sekjal               jcamins:  your patch for 6557 really is awesome
19:54 mtj                  http://motherboard.vice.com/2012/6/4/why-hate-the-catcopter-drones-are-the-real-flying-death--2
19:54 sekjal               mtj:  yes, last night
19:54 mtj                  woah, anyone seen the cat-copter yet?
19:52 wizzyrea_mib         ok answered you
19:51 wizzyrea_mib         uh... just got it
19:51 mtj                  wizzyrea: hiya - did you get my /msg before?
19:50 wizzyrea_mib         yea, out of scope, definitely should be an improvement though
19:50 * jcamins            is a sneaky kind of guy.
19:50 jcamins              sekjal: there are sneaky ways to do better, though.
19:49 jcamins              sekjal: yes, and "totalissues" is specifically about the number of times a bib had an item circulated.
19:49 sekjal               out of scope
19:49 sekjal               but that's complicating the algorithm
19:49 sekjal               I would think that the total number of holds should also factor into a material's "popularity"
19:48 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8115 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , DOM indexing configuration should compute totalissues from items.issues
19:48 jcamins              Bug 8115.
19:47 jcamins              sekjal: but I want to get this in first, because it might change the way the DOM indexing bit needs to be handled.
19:47 jcamins              Somewhere.
19:47 jcamins              sekjal: yes, that's a follow-up bug.
19:47 sekjal               is that right?
19:47 sekjal               jcamins: you mention in the bug report that with DOM, the addition of item circ info could be handled at indexing time
19:46 * magnuse            doesn't know the backstory, but thinks what wizzyrea_mib says sounds reasonable
19:44 wizzyrea_mib         and certainly, imo, knowing what is popular today vs. what was popular 5 minutes ago... I don't see the point
19:44 * druthb             chucks handfuls of Skittles at mtj.
19:44 wizzyrea_mib         fwiw, I don't think that instant popularity calculation is even worth it - I don't see the point of updating that stuff more than once a day - unless you have an extremely, extremely small or particularly active catalog, the popularity of items isn't probably going to change all that much.
19:43 mtj                  morning #koha
19:38 jcamins              The expensive thing is always going to be writing the MARC record.
19:38 jcamins              That's why I recommend against enabling instant popularity update.
19:37 magnuse              (nah, guess i don't really mean that, for now...)
19:37 magnuse              fastest of all: get rid of it! ;-)
19:37 jcamins              But computers will keep on getting faster.
19:37 sekjal               efficiency is really important for anything circ related
19:37 jcamins              sekjal: agreed that it'd be nice to have a faster way.
19:37 sekjal               jcamins:  looking at 6557 was what prompted me to think of finding some kind of faster way to store and share the MARC
19:36 magnuse              thanks trea ;-)
19:36 trea                 manguse that's a handsome fellow!
19:36 jcamins              That said, if you feel strongly, I don't care enough about code organization/duplication to argue any more than that. ;)
19:35 jcamins              It means we're duplicating code everywhere that we want to update the totalissues.
19:35 jcamins              sekjal: passing in $record, $frameworkcode, and $totalissues (costing logical routine separation) for a performance gain seems to be going the wrong way in terms of code cleanup.
19:34 magnuse              ;-)
19:32 sekjal               awww!
19:32 magnuse              [off] http://www.enger.priv.no/lpbs/leonard.jpg
19:32 jcamins              sekjal: adding a follow-up for 6557.
19:31 magnuse              druthb: thanks!
19:31 druthb               congrats, magnuse!  jcamins just showed me the picture.
19:31 magnuse              sekjal: thanks! ;-)
19:31 sekjal               magnuse:  yes, congratulations indeed!
19:25 magnuse              jcamins: thanks!
19:25 jcamins              magnuse: congratulations!
19:25 * magnuse            waves to druthb
19:24 * druthb             waves to magnuse.
19:22 magnuse              MARC must die!
19:20 sekjal               hmm, yes, folks are depending on that as a workaround to get non-mapped MARC fields
19:17 jcamins              We'd also need the marcxml for reporting.
19:16 sekjal               would save on processing, and we could access the object directly with SQL, instead of having to use GetMarcBiblio or the like
19:14 jcamins              I'm not sure that using a MARC::Record object abstracts significantly, but it does seem like an improvement anyway.
19:14 sekjal               jcamins: so long as it's not relatively worse, it's all okay by me
19:13 jcamins              sekjal: at least, no worse than with MARCXML.
19:13 sekjal               ... I'm liking this.  let's us abstract the data structure from the presentation a little bit more
19:12 jcamins              Serialize it with Data::Dumper.
19:12 jcamins              sekjal: not very.
19:12 sekjal               hmmm, how susceptible to corruption would the stored MARC::Record object be/
19:11 jcamins              Nor the binary MARC.
19:11 jcamins              At no point is MARCXML used directly.
19:11 sekjal               save on processing
19:11 sekjal               ... yeah, I think this might be a good thing.  store the data in the format it's most often used
19:09 jcamins              We still have to deserialize the XML into a MARC::Record for indexing.
19:08 sekjal               but doing that every X seconds is less intense that reading/writing it for every single biblio-modifying transaction
19:07 sekjal               well, at least for XML-based indexers
19:07 sekjal               we'd still have to pass MARCXML for indexing
19:06 jcamins              sekjal: I like this idea.
19:05 sekjal               then we could get that data structure without having to invoke MARC::Record every time to serialize and deserialize from the binary or xml
19:05 jcamins              sekjal: intriguing.
19:04 sekjal               random idea:  what if, instead of storing the binary MARC record in biblioitems.marc, we stored the MARC::Record object?
19:00 mgeist               Gotta boot to my XP partition, so I will be back later.
18:53 sekjal               yes, it's not the most intuitive name for the function, I'll give you that
18:52 sekjal               ah
18:52 YoungPublicLibrarian Yes, I've watched quite a few of them. I just didn't realize Runteime Parameters in SQL was what I was looking for... :/
18:52 sekjal               she takes requests
18:52 sekjal               there are lots of other Koha videos, too, most of them produced by our documentation manager Nicole Engard (nengard)
18:51 sekjal               YoungPublicLibrarian:  glad to help :)
18:50 YoungPublicLibrarian Thank you sekjal! That was perfect!
18:41 sekjal               http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjz_o3-SRQU
18:40 sekjal               YoungPublicLibrarian:  have you used the Runtime Parameters in SQL reports?
18:38 YoungPublicLibrarian Anyone, any advice?
18:33 YoungPublicLibrarian Hello everyone, I am in need of assistance with writing a Fines and Fees report for my library. I need help writing some code into it that will designate the patron's homebranch or allow us to select the homebranch at the beginning of the report.
18:26 mbalmer              anybody speaks gaelic and can translate?
17:32 bencahill_lunch      I haven't done this before; let's hope I don't burn them...
17:29 * bencahill_lunch    is cooking some hotdogs on an electric skillet
17:28 mgeist_lunch         Its okay, you can have eggos for either meal.
17:25 paul_p               lunch time ? what a strange idea ? it's dinner time !!!
17:25 bencahill_lunch      SJeffery: Texas!
17:25 SJeffery             All these east coast people!
17:24 bencahill            Yeah, me too.
17:24 mgeist               Ooh good idea
17:21 jcamins              Lunch time!
17:21 wizzyrea_mib         ah.
17:20 SJeffery             Nah, I just don't like the name showing up in search results, and since the chan is logged...
17:20 * wizzyrea_mib       notes SJeffery's skillful skirting of the question
17:19 SJeffery             The corporate library that I work for:D
17:19 wizzyrea_mib         lotta strands in old duder's head.
17:19 * wizzyrea_mib       is forgetful, remember
17:19 wizzyrea_mib         who is "us"
17:18 SJeffery             I just don't want us to end up being the only ones funding every major change:D
17:18 jcamins              wizzyrea_mib: good idea!
17:18 wizzyrea_mib         if someone did a quote, you could like, kickstarter it or something.
17:18 SJeffery             Yeah. Since it involves such a fundamental change it is probably something we would want to pull in other libraries for
17:17 wizzyrea_mib         :) I'm just being *explicit*
17:17 jcamins              wizzyrea_mib: well, yeah, that's what 'serious work' means.
17:17 wizzyrea_mib         plus, $$
17:17 jcamins              SJeffery: don't misunderstand me... I know *how* to do it. This isn't a mystery. It's just big enough a project that it will require some serious work.
17:16 SJeffery             k. Well fwiw we will be taking care of 6617 one way or another.
17:15 jcamins              (to make it like that)
17:15 jcamins              SJeffery: agreed. Unfortunately, it's a bit non-trivial to do it.
17:15 SJeffery             *checks the LHL job openings* dangit!
17:14 wizzyrea_mib         i think it's technically in MO
17:14 * mgeist             grew up in KS, moved to DC for about 10 years, then moved back to KS
17:13 SJeffery             Ideally showing/hiding fields in the opac/serps would be a set of simple configuration changes.
17:13 jcamins              Hm. MO, apparently.
17:12 SJeffery             no, Kansas City (I cant remember which side of the border it is on)
17:12 * jcamins            knows the director of special collections.
17:12 jcamins              Oh, the Linda Hall science library is in KS? I thought it was in Chicago.
17:12 jcamins              SJeffery: we really need the ability to hide any arbitrary 5xx fields from the Description tab.
17:11 wizzyrea_mib         ah yea good pt
17:11 SJeffery             There is one we need to recruit to Koha!
17:11 SJeffery             In fact, I was out there last October...I love the Linda Hall library
17:11 * wizzyrea_mib       has lived here for... a long time.
17:10 wizzyrea_mib         ohhhhhh
17:10 SJeffery             (I spent 5 years in KS and sitll think of it has home)
17:10 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6617 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , table of contents not printing right if entered right
17:10 SJeffery             jcamins: IMO it needs to be done. We would probably do that in combination of bug 6617, which should make a big difference.
17:10 * druthb             waves at SJeffery
17:10 druthb               hi, mgeist!
17:09 wizzyrea_mib         sometime's I'm like a goldfish -- ooh, a bubbler! ooh, a bubbler!
17:08 wizzyrea_mib         did I?
17:08 wizzyrea_mib         ... i didn't know you were a fellow kansan :P
17:07 jcamins              Unfortunately, that's non-trivial.
17:07 jcamins              I think the conclusion I reached was that probably we need to remove the fields from the Descriptions tab.
17:04 jcamins              SJeffery: yeah, I've thought about that... a lot, actually.
17:04 SJeffery             No wave for me?
17:04 mgeist               Still here.  It set me away.  I guess because im not talking?
17:04 * wizzyrea_mib       waves to her fellow kansan
17:04 wizzyrea_mib         oh hey, mgeist was here :)
17:01 SJeffery             Does anyone have any thoughts on removing the 505/520 from the either the main display or the description tab of the opac so that it only displays once?
16:56 jcamins              sekjal: funness awaits!
16:56 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6557 normal, P3, ---, jcamins, Signed Off , biblioitems.totalissues unused
16:56 wizzyrea_mib         bug 6557
16:56 wizzyrea_mib         popularity is officially fixed - someone QA it!
16:56 wizzyrea_mib         jcamins++
16:50 jcamins              :)
16:50 jcamins              paul_p: how did you do that?
16:49 jcamins              paul_p: in that case, you don't have an invalid record, just an invalid marcxml blob.
16:48 * druthb             blames jcamins
16:47 paul_p               jcamins not sure that's it. dom indexing work without -x flag, fail with -x. it's not related to my invalid record as I thought
16:46 jcamins              (and any records after it)
16:46 jcamins              paul_p: GRS-1 just failed to handle those records, I think.
16:44 paul_p               worked well with grs1
16:43 paul_p               (in biblioitems page)
16:43 paul_p               seems it happens when your records are somehow invalid
16:43 paul_p               )
16:43 paul_p               18:23:08-06/06 zebraidx(11130) [warn] extract error: generic
16:43 paul_p               ^
16:43 paul_p               <record
16:43 paul_p               (to say everything : Entity: line 84: parser error : Extra content at the end of the document
16:43 paul_p               18:23:08-06/06 zebraidx(11130) [warn] extract error: generic
16:43 paul_p               Just for fun, I got many zebra errors, the funniest one being :
16:42 paul_p               OK, I could make it work. The thing now is to make it reproductible :D (and write how I made)
16:39 jcamins              paul_p++
16:39 jcamins              Ah.
16:38 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7818 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Passed QA , support DOM mode for Zebra indexing of bibliographic records
16:38 wahanui              Bug 7818 is waiting for my QA. Should be pretty painless, as it works a charm.
16:38 jcamins              Bug 7818
16:38 paul_p               in 2 hours, we will have a scottish singer
16:38 paul_p               (and except zeno, that is sitted near me)
16:38 paul_p               everybody at the pub, except me who is trying to test but 7818 to push it...
16:25 * jcamins            works frantically.
16:23 SJeffery             lol so am I
16:12 wizzyrea_mib         i'm working poor jcamins hard today
15:59 mtompset             have fun discussing it.
15:59 mtompset             That is one ugly bug description.
15:57 * mtompset           made the same initial mistake too.
15:56 mtompset             *smirk* the template extensions aren't bad... someone didn't go reading the code for the substitution in C4::Templates. :)
15:55 wahanui              :)
15:55 cait                 wahanui botsnack luxemburgerli
15:54 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC
15:54 jcamins              mtompset: he's sulking because we just said bug 6874 so many times.
15:54 cait                 hm
15:54 mtompset             where's the bot?
15:54 mtompset             bug 6874
15:53 jcamins              clrh: yeah, discussing bug 6874.
15:53 mtompset             :/? Did I miss some context?
15:53 clrh                 :/
15:52 mtompset             brainwave! his email address was on some bug reports I submitted. :)
15:52 jcamins              Exact same problems.
15:52 jcamins              clrh: yes I did.
15:52 clrh                 the patches are a litle bit old, did you tested the last rebased patch?
15:51 clrh                 I see your comments
15:51 clrh                 erf
15:50 jcamins              clrh: I've tried it several times, and I just can't get it to work.
15:49 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC
15:49 clrh                 bug 6874
15:41 mtompset             Be back in 10. ;)
15:40 wizzyrea_mib         later :)
15:40 mtompset             Good day to you, #koha folk. :)
15:39 mtompset             0 to installed in 1 day... another day to harden, reconfigure, and import data.
15:38 mtompset             Enough installation work for one day.
15:38 mtompset             Well, my timezone is telling me it is bed time.
15:37 huginn`              mtompset: mtompset was last seen in #koha 1 minute and 23 seconds ago: <mtompset> I missed him by 8 minutes.
15:37 mtompset             @seen mtompset
15:37 huginn`              shari: downloading the Perl source
15:37 shari                @drruthb: Pixel will protect my share.
15:37 druthb               why do you think I put them at the other end of the table?  At least now, I have go *get up* and go get munchies.
15:37 huginn`              slef: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 16 minutes and 25 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> @quote random
15:37 slef                 @seen gmcharlt
15:37 huginn`              slef: The operation succeeded.
15:37 slef                 @later tell gmcharlt mtompset would like to talk to you
15:37 cait                 mtompset: not usre, I haven't seen him - perhaps an autoated reconnect?
15:36 druthb               shari:  cait:  Yes, she would eat them all up.  Yes, she would.  :P
15:36 mtompset             I missed him by 8 minutes.
15:36 mtompset             gmcharlt was here briefly.
15:36 cait                 I think
15:36 cait                 but we have to find someone who has permission to give permissions...
15:35 slef                 mtompset: try to update a translation and see if it no longer works?
15:35 cait                 yes, I think it's a permission problem
15:35 mtompset             Because I am part of users and autoconfirmed users.
15:35 mtompset             I was wondering if someone who does have access could tell me what groups they belong to.
15:34 cait                 mtompset: I am sory, we will try to work something out
15:34 mtompset             Still no wiki access.
15:34 * mtompset           is sad...
15:32 mtompset             Hopefully it will get noticed.
15:32 mtompset             I went with the latter.
15:32 mtompset             There is... but is this really an internationalization problem? or is this a misc utility that needs to be deleted?
15:31 slef                 sorry... I'll go stand outside
15:31 mle_office           I am heading back to Teviot now.
15:30 mle_office           (or oh no youre not)
15:30 mle_office           no your not
15:29 slef                 </panto>
15:29 slef                 I'm behind (some of) you!
15:29 cait                 :)
15:28 shari                I've been well trained with Jared's fudge. I respect the goodies.
15:28 cait                 ;)
15:28 cait                 rangi was refusing the sweets I offered to him... so glad you know what is good
15:28 jcamins              mtompset: there's no section for internationalization?
15:28 cait                 :D
15:27 wizzyrea_mib         nomnomnomnomnom
15:27 cait                 chocolate ....
15:27 shari                she wouldn't do that!
15:27 shari                lol
15:26 wizzyrea_mib         rental charges on itemtypes - makes sense but OY hard to find
15:26 cait                 so druthb got no chance to eat them all up *hide*
15:26 cait                 perfect timing then even :)
15:26 shari                :-)
15:26 shari                It arrived at the same time we did.
15:26 shari                I'll be back to editing, and that makes one hunger for sweets.
15:26 mtompset             Hmm... maybe command-line utilities? it says mainly in misc/
15:26 shari                Well, it's a bit early for chocolates, but very soon I'll be indulging, I'm sure.
15:25 cait                 I got worried it wouldn't make it in time
15:25 cait                 so glad the package finally arrived
15:25 shari                I'm looking forward to digging in.
15:25 cait                 hope you like it!
15:25 shari                hi! thanks for the box of goodies!
15:25 * cait               waves too
15:25 cait                 hi shari :)
15:25 * jcamins            welcomes Shari to the #koha IRC channel.
15:25 wizzyrea_mib         heya :)
15:25 shari                hello!
15:24 jcamins              mtompset: I think there's translation/i13n?
15:24 mtompset             component, I should say.
15:24 mtompset             jcamins, what category do you think this deprecated misc/translator/update.pl should be under?
15:23 mtompset             I've been hoping to see you, gmcharlt, so I could confirm my email address which I registered with the Wiki.
15:22 mtompset             Ah! I see gmcharlt. :)
15:22 mle_afk              play with the bot
15:21 wizzyrea_mib         mle what are you wanting to do?
15:21 mle_afk              : p
15:21 huginn`              mle_afk: (command <network> <command> [<arg> ...]) -- Gives the bot <command> (with its associated <arg>s) on <network>.
15:21 mle_afk              @help command
15:21 huginn`              mle_afk: Error: There is no command "commands".
15:21 mle_afk              @help commands
15:21 huginn`              mle_afk: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
15:21 mle_afk              @help
15:20 huginn`              gmcharlt: Quote #197: "<chris_n> half-baked things are asking for trouble" (added by slef at 04:10 PM, April 05, 2012)
15:20 gmcharlt             @quote random
15:17 mtompset             translate has 2010 in the (c)
15:15 jcamins              mtompset: not sure, exactly. A while ago.
15:14 mtompset             when was it deprecated?
15:13 jcamins              Eventually the script will be removed, I think.
15:13 jcamins              mtompset: definitely a bug, though. I'd report it.
15:13 jcamins              mtompset: okay, good.
15:13 gaetan_B             bye !
15:13 mtompset             I'm not using it... I was just looking for perl use statements, to make sure the package lists were up to date.
15:12 jcamins              Use translate.
15:12 jcamins              It's deprecated.
15:12 jcamins              mtompset: don't use update.pl.
15:09 mtompset             in the misc/translator/update.pl program.
15:09 mtompset             use lib '/home/chris/git/koha.git';
15:09 mtompset             okay, okay... a weirdness got my attention before getting to bed.
15:04 jcamins              Heh.
15:04 chris_n              although the intelligent part is in question
15:04 chris_n              imb == intelligent mail barcode
15:04 jcamins              Ah.
15:04 chris_n              I need to cook up a module to interface some perl scripts with the usps imb c libs
15:03 jcamins              chris_n: why are you learning XS?
15:03 * chris_n            is learning perl xs foo
15:03 jcamins              :)
15:03 chris_n              cool
15:02 jcamins              chris_n: no, we're enjoying cait's chocolate.
15:02 mgeist               jcamins had fudge and didnt bring any to nekls yesterday?  Im hurt.
15:02 chris_n              jcamins: out delivering fudge?
15:01 jcamins              cait++
14:50 mtompset             Bye, mle_afk.
14:50 * mle_afk            waves to mtompset
14:49 mtompset             Have a good day, bencahill.
14:49 mtompset             Well, I think I'll call it a day.
14:41 bencahill            slef: How's the video/storage working out?
14:40 mtompset             I just emailed off that PDF link to my colleagues on this koha project I'm involved with.
14:39 mtompset             Has anyone seen gmcharlt or thd-away`
14:39 * bencahill          pulls out his gaffer's tape and tapes the stick to the wall
14:39 bencahill            hey!
14:39 bencahill            lol
14:39 * mtompset           uses the poking stick excessively on bencahill.
14:39 bencahill            My brother once ran an 11:18... o_O
14:39 mtompset             On second thought...
14:38 bencahill            *hehe
14:38 bencahill            hhe
14:38 mtompset             bencahill and I were talking bash earlier. We have an understanding. ;)
14:38 bencahill            mtompset: I was just saying that I can expect myself to run faster since I'm younger. :P ;)
14:38 * mtompset           laughs, "It's okay."
14:38 * talljoy            hands poking stick to mtompset.  lol
14:37 bencahill            :(
14:37 * mtompset           jabs the young one for disrspecting his elders. ;)
14:37 bencahill            mtompset: Right, that's what I figured. ;)
14:37 mtompset             I'm over double your age. ;)
14:35 rangi                mle_afk: ooh thanks
14:35 bencahill            mtompset: How old are you? I'm 18, and going to Basic Training (although not military) in 7 weeks. To get PT Excellence, I need to be faster than 12:54
14:33 mtompset             Of course, I doubt I could do it in 20 minutes now.
14:33 mtompset             18:36... that's better than my 20 minutes.
14:32 mle_afk              rangi:  best ale pub http://www.list.co.uk/place/102899-the-cloisters/
14:32 bencahill            I ran 2 miles in 18:36 :( ...gotta work on that...
14:22 mtompset             much less now, which is good. I can focus on my strengths. :)
14:22 mtompset             not all the time, thankfully. :)
14:21 slef                 mtompset: you do cust support?
14:21 mtompset             I have to bite my tongue when I think of users having a capital silent L. ;)
14:20 jwagner              thanks -- I shut down a lot of my normal desktop stuff so I wouldn't get interrupted -- needed to reboot to get it all back :-)
14:18 slef                 wb jwagner
14:16 mtompset             Nice PDF presentation!
14:15 slef                 I am juggling again
14:14 slef                 blurgh
14:14 slef                 and we mosee pdf link now mtompset
14:14 mtompset             DOH! I can't join, because the meeting is over. :(
14:13 SJeffery             Wow, that is a great presentation. I have a meeting with all of our staff on Monday and I will make use of that.
14:12 jwagner              I'm going to reboot to get my normal setup back -- will be back online in a couple of minutes
14:12 francharb            thank you
14:12 francharb            great!
14:11 francharb            :)
14:11 francharb            jwagner, the sound was ok
14:11 wahanui              i guess on the wiki is more information about the packages
14:11 francharb            on the wiki
14:11 francharb            will your slides available
14:10 jwagner              francharb, thanks -- how was the audio?
14:10 francharb            ;)
14:10 francharb            thank you
14:10 francharb            jwagner, don't have any question for now but your presentation was very interesting!
14:09 mtompset             Meeting number?
14:06 slef                 but we fell back to phone for sound
14:06 slef                 http://ptfs.webex.com/ if you want to watch slides
14:05 slef                 hehe
14:04 mtompset             Seeing as I am not at #kohacon12, no questions. :P
14:04 slef                 may be as easy here
14:03 slef                 any questions?
14:03 slef                 any feedback for jwagner?
14:01 slef                 ok I go kick mjkaye
14:00 slef                 can someone come get mic2 for questions please?
14:00 mtompset             Hello again, bencahill.
13:59 bencahill            mtompset: Good evening ;)
13:59 bencahill            heh
13:58 mtompset             Wow, lots of people... just not one of the two people I want here. ;)
13:58 slef                 jcamins: ok we have changedlaptop but = will install linphone and co tonight
13:58 rangi                slef: ?
13:58 slef                 ;(
13:57 jcamins              And, of course, if it doesn't work I can just phone in.
13:57 slef                 is edi not as special as nz?
13:57 cait                 so wh did we start talking japanese?
13:57 jcamins              slef: I'd prefer linphone. I'll be at NEKLS during the Q & A, so we'll need to test from there.
13:57 slef                 francharb: oi is more what do you mean by that
13:57 cait                 kurisumasu
13:57 cait                 or
13:56 cait                 hea pin
13:56 cait                 hm actually that looks wrong
13:56 rangi                my fave is still iceu creamu
13:56 cait                 rangi: douzu yorushiko
13:56 wizzyrea             1 million+ identical backlinks from a single site = bad.
13:56 huginn`              bencahill: The current temperature in RAWS HENDERSON TX US, Minden, Texas is 23.9°C (8:06 AM CDT on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Falling).
13:56 bencahill            @wunder 75654
13:56 francharb            that's what I heard
13:55 rangi                komban wa, kore wa chris desu
13:55 slef                 jcamins: cool. do you want to phone in fo q and a or linphoneor what?
13:55 francharb            or something like that.
13:55 sekjal               meeting time (about Ex Libris' Aleph... must control my disdain)
13:55 francharb            slef : does "oi" really mean "hey you"?
13:55 wizzyrea             Google was also hitting websites for aggressive anchor text for keywords in backlinks even before Penguin. Post-Penguin, anchor text diversity becomes more critical. < this is what our problem is, I think.
13:55 cait                 doumo arigatou gozaimasu?
13:55 jcamins              slef: I'm going to be recording my talk today, and uploading it so you can play it tomorrow.
13:55 slef                 ignore me
13:55 rangi                su mi ma sen
13:55 slef                 wizzyrea: I managed to post a new atta... wait no another topic...
13:54 cait                 desu
13:54 cait                 oishii dese ne!
13:54 rangi                yep
13:54 asaurat              cait: yeaaah oishiii
13:54 cait                 means delicious in japanese?
13:54 bencahill            oiboiy
13:54 rangi                i know
13:54 rangi                oishi
13:54 francharb            oï
13:54 cait                 wizzyrea: hope it's all yummy and you enjoy it :)
13:53 rangi                oi?
13:53 wizzyrea             slef: I haven't had a chance to look at your link yet
13:53 * bencahill          is going to go run now (2 miles) :)
13:53 slef                 oi
13:53 bencahill            cool
13:53 wizzyrea             well, it's ever so much more special when it actually comes from the place it was made :D
13:53 rangi                yep, day 2 today
13:53 bencahill            It's active in here this morning! Is the conference still in action?
13:53 cait                 didn't know for example you had haribo (although i should have guessed that)
13:52 cait                 hard to find something that is not already sold in US!
13:52 wizzyrea             they sell all kinds of things :)
13:52 cait                 oh :)
13:52 wizzyrea             our little european market here
13:52 wahanui              bonjour, libcoop
13:52 libcoop              hi
13:52 cait                 au marche?
13:52 rangi                hi libcoop
13:52 * wizzyrea           will go try to find one just like it at au marché
13:52 cait                 jcamins: :) thx!
13:52 slef                 ok we are running
13:51 * jcamins            tries to think of an additional pro to the "traditional" workflow for analytics, so that the slide will be balanced.
13:51 * druthb             will be brining goodies from Germany to NEKLS this morning, once we all get stirring around.
13:51 wizzyrea             aww, that's ok :) it's hot here.
13:51 cait                 I hear the coconut chocolate has melted :(that one was especially for you
13:51 * druthb             offers hugs.
13:51 druthb               wizzzzeeeeeee!
13:51 cait                 I was really worried by now!
13:51 wizzyrea             yep!
13:51 wizzyrea             :D
13:50 cait                 my surprise arrived!!!
13:50 cait                 hi wizzyrea :)
13:50 wizzyrea             heya
13:50 rangi                hi wizzyrea
13:49 cait                 hi mveron :)
13:45 mtompset             I blink, and there's conversation!
13:40 drojf                corneliusbeers.com even
13:40 drojf                that cornelisbeers.com shop looks quite nice
13:36 * talljoy            will settle for sparkly or just plain shiny
13:36 medmondson           talljoy: wot bags themselves are not enough, sigh. ; )
13:35 rangi                w00t!
13:35 NateC                I thought so too
13:35 talljoy              conference bags full of awesome bling?
13:35 NateC                :)
13:35 sekjal               NateC: awesome.  flat out
13:35 medmondson           conference bags have been located and are noW in conference-organisers possesion EVEN
13:34 medmondson           ack
13:34 medmondson           woop woop
13:34 medmondson           conference bags have been located and are not in conference-organisers possesion
13:34 medmondson           newsflash #####
13:33 medmondson           very special
13:32 NateC                heh
13:32 cait                 ouch
13:32 rangi                thats a shiny endorsement of voyager :)
13:31 medmondson           : >
13:31 rangi                hehe
13:31 NateC                "Working with our old ILS was like licking the anus of a dead squirrel that’s laying bloated in the sunshine in the middle of the road on a hot summer day.  And there was also a negative side.  Koha is a wonderful improvement."
13:31 * rangi              waits
13:31 NateC                I wanted to add this to our press release for them but decided to go with a less colorful one
13:31 rangi                maybe we can do a craft beer night one of the evenings
13:31 NateC                I thought you might like to hear a recent quote from one of our newly switched library partners (Ex Voyager Library)
13:30 medmondson           rangi: http://www.brewdog.com/ these guys rock.
13:30 rangi                ahh bus, good idea
13:29 rangi                NateC: yeah it's going well
13:29 slef                 final tips from nengard
13:29 medmondson           25/30 minutes walk. short bus
13:29 medmondson           not really
13:29 medmondson           last night I was drinking kriek
13:29 rangi                is it near the uni?
13:29 medmondson           oh yes
13:29 rangi                ohhh
13:29 medmondson           rangi.  I just moved near here: http://www.corneliusbeers.com/  its by far the best in Edinburgh and is the most impressive rare/weird alcohol retailer that I have ever found
13:29 NateC                Hi Everyone! I hope the conference is going well!
13:28 rangi                saturday sounds like a good idea
13:27 slef                 am yellow carding nengard meanly
13:26 slef                 saturday maybe
13:25 rangi                i have wine for you .. also not with me :)
13:25 slef                 not with me today
13:25 slef                 rangi I have beer for you...
13:25 * medmondson         rings S
13:24 medmondson           Deuchars++
13:24 slef                 she calledme for your number at 2
13:24 medmondson           its great
13:24 rangi                its an android app, like foursquare, but for beer
13:24 medmondson           slef depends on when i was meant to call her
13:24 medmondson           rangi I like your beer tracking page.
13:24 slef                 cool I think
13:24 slef                 riiight... so she has your number
13:23 medmondson           slef I called S just before she went into the delicery depot
13:23 slef                 hi
13:22 slef                 he medmondson ... can you call S if you have not spoken with her?
13:22 slef                 bbc will have pics but Iam text only here
13:22 slef                 one of their truck got stuck in Somerset
13:21 cait                 slef: i told him, he likes it
13:21 medmondson           irn bru++
13:21 slef                 sticky too
13:21 rangi                thats a good rule
13:21 rangi                heh
13:21 slef                 anything that bright orange cannot be good
13:21 rangi                im pretty sure there is the same amount of sugar as there is fluid in it
13:20 rangi                im currently drinking an irn bru
13:18 wahanui              "What are you trying to do?"  "What is the goal?" or "What problem are you experiencing?"
13:18 slef                 first question
13:17 slef                 got to stop drinking coffee now...
13:17 sekjal               rangi:  nice!
13:16 rangi                yup
13:16 slef                 all ok back there?
13:16 cait                 hi slef
13:15 rangi                http://untappd.com/user/ranginui <-- tracking my beer drinking
13:13 slef                 hello everybody...
13:09 slef                 aha we are on
12:43 hdl                  samuel: pm
12:37 mtompset             Sorry, it doesn't really have to do with koha, but I figured perhaps some perl geeks might be intrigued by the question.
12:36 mtompset             I'm assuming it requires knowing the difference between empty keys and undef.
12:35 mtompset             proper translation?
12:35 mtompset             deprecated
12:35 mtompset             if (! defined (%hash) ) {...}
12:35 mtompset             Well, okay... here's the reason I am asking.
12:34 druthb               hm..  In the past, I've never cared about the difference.  I darn-near always initialize them as %hash = () on purpose.
12:31 mtompset             scalar keys %hash == 0 is also true for %hash = undef;
12:21 oleonard             Hi #koha
12:19 jcamins              schuster: I meant, copy <VirtualHost *:80>...</VirtualHost> so that you have a third virtualhost identical to that first one.
12:18 schuster             jcamins - what do you mean by end of that part?  Take out the whole virtualhost?
12:17 pastebot             "samuel" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "connection ldap" (33 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/432
12:16 druthb               mtompset:  The second one can be found with "if (scalar keys %hash == 0) { "
12:16 jcamins              schuster: but the suggestion still stands.
12:16 jcamins              Well, that was a pretty incoherent sentence.
12:15 jwagner              drojf, calling now
12:15 hdl                  mtompset: http://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~abatko/computers/programming/perl/howto/hash/
12:14 hdl                  %has('a'=>'q') : no way
12:14 hdl                  our undef %hash
12:14 hdl                  %hash=()
12:13 hdl                  And not NameVirtualHost *:port
12:13 jcamins              schuster: if you copy from <VirtualHost *:80> to the end of that part, then adjust the ServerName to "001.catalog.pisd.edu", try that.
12:13 hdl                  schuster: I would have only NameVirtualHost *
12:13 mtompset             ^what^way^
12:13 mtompset             anyone here know a nice what to check between, %hash = undef, %hash = (), and %hash('a'=>'q');?
12:13 samuel               hdl: ok, i'll do it :-)
12:13 jwagner              OK, give me a few minutes
12:12 drojf                its lunch break
12:12 druthb               you're welcome, schuster. :)
12:12 drojf                to test things
12:12 jwagner              drojf, now? I thought it wasn't for another hour
12:12 drojf                jwagner: slef asks if you could try phoning in please?
12:12 schuster             hey druthb... and all thanks again for helping me out.
12:11 pastebot             "schuster" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "part one of koha-httpd.conf" (189 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/431
12:11 jcamins              \o
12:10 druthb               o/
12:10 hdl                  But paste.koha-community;org
12:10 jcamins              You're going to copy the entire <VirtualHost> stanza for the OPAC.
12:10 hdl                  not on irc.
12:10 jcamins              schuster: okay, I see.
12:10 schuster             Yep just a minute
12:10 mtompset             those are different site names.
12:10 schuster             I'm trying to do 001.catalog.pisd.edu - and it will open basically koha but with a different css
12:10 hdl                  schuster: would you mind pasting your koha-httpd.conf ?
12:10 mtompset             that's not the default configuration.
12:09 schuster             catalog.pisd.edu - koha-staff.pisd.edu:8080 - urls work.
12:09 mtompset             Oh, so you want another opac on let's say 1234?
12:09 hdl                  samuel: paste your koha-conf (only the part for ldap mapping)  on paste.koha-community.org
12:09 schuster             no other websites just koha.
12:09 schuster             yes that is set on koha-httpd.conf
12:08 mtompset             Are any other websites running of this same machine?
12:08 schuster             That is working when I do the standard, but I want to add another virtual host for the opac, with a special configuration and it won't take that.
12:08 jcamins              Exactly what hdl said.
12:08 hdl                  or any.
12:08 jcamins              schuster: if you open up the koha-httpd.conf, check that it says <VirtualHost *:80>
12:08 hdl                  And not xxx.xxx.Xxx:80
12:08 mtompset             just a second... I just did a "fresh" install on ubuntu 12.04... let me look.
12:08 hdl                  *:80
12:07 hdl                  has  :
12:07 hdl                  schuster: check that your vhost declaration
12:07 schuster             yes
12:07 mtompset             How are you planning on setting up your koha? the default way with staff client at 8080 and opac at 80?
12:05 schuster             jcamins - sorry that means nothing to me.???  so what should I look at?
12:03 jcamins              schuster: probably the hosts are listening on ipaddress:80
12:02 mtompset             Sorry, I know nothing of LDAP.
12:02 samuel               anyone with ldap knowledge? I'm also having troubles, certainly of mapping, because i've the following error "Unknown column 'flags"
12:01 * medmondson         waves
12:01 * mtompset           looks around. "Is anyone else here?"
12:00 schuster             When I look at the configuration file I can't tell what I have done wrong.  The server is up and running, but not all of my virtual hosts are accessible yet.
12:00 schuster             I'm looking at koha-httpd.conf - when I restart apache I am getting NameVirtualHost *:80 has no VirtualHosts
11:58 jcamins_away         schuster: I have a little bit of Apache knowledge.
11:57 samuel               hi everybody
11:57 schuster             anyone with apache knowledge here? I'm having some trouble with virtual hosts
11:07 medmondson           ty rangi
11:06 rangi                i will at the break
11:06 rangi                i would but im about 8 rows away from her
11:06 medmondson           please can someone in Teviot tell Lee that I have located bags.  : )
11:02 medmondson           singer is 7.30 for 8.00
11:02 medmondson           ACk
11:01 rangi                i think this discussion needs to adjourn to lunchtime
10:59 medmondson           if you want to google him.
10:59 medmondson           singer details: Norrie 'Tago' MacIver
10:58 cait                 thx medmondson
10:58 medmondson           it is in the same room
10:58 cait                 I don't know - perhaps slef can say something about it between sessions?
10:58 medmondson           singer is 7.00 for 7.30
10:56 nengard              or anyone - what time is the singer tonight? and is it in this room?
10:56 nengard              slef around?
10:55 medmondson           pls? :)
10:52 medmondson           can someone in Teviot tell Lee that I am on hold about to pay customs charges for the bags. : )  groovy hold muzak. tumdee dum.
10:50 rangi                yep
10:49 eythian              soon there will be a package that lets you just pull in the perl deps
10:49 medmondson           : )
10:49 rangi                then you can do the perl Makefile.PL and you should be all good
10:48 david                right, i'll try that then
10:47 rangi                ah yep, that works too, the nice thing with the koha-common package is it will pull in all the dependencies for you
10:47 david                right, this'll be the first perl based environment i've put on this laptop so maybe not so surprising :)
10:47 david                rangi: installing from git files with 'sudo perl Makefile.PL'
10:47 rangi                that's how i install
10:47 rangi                david: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.8_on_Debian_Squeeze
10:46 cait                 hi Oak :)
10:46 rangi                are you using the packages? and yep thats about right
10:45 david                i have 60 Perl pre-requisites missing when installing Koha for the first time.  Is that norma? :)
10:06 Oak                  Ahoy me hearties in a land far far away
10:01 mtompset             Bye, #koha folks.
10:00 mtompset             Oh, and I think I'd like to chat more with you dpavlin regarding your PHP patchwork for SAML 2.0 authentication later.
10:00 rangi                will do
10:00 mtompset             I am taking off.
10:00 mtompset             Well, if anyone sees gmcharlt or thd, could you ask them about wiki access for me? :)
09:58 rangi                hi mrenvoize :)
09:58 mrenvoize            Hi cait, and all..
09:57 rangi                phew not in 3.8.x
09:56 cait                 dpavlin: ouch
09:56 dpavlin              s/admin/admit/
09:55 dpavlin              I must admin, I read through the code instead of using git bisect, but revert does help ;-)
09:54 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5742 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , batch edit patrons
09:54 dpavlin              Bug 5742 is to blame, commmit a6c6946dfc89b523988fc9478a94040d81d287a8 -- it changes C4/Members/Attributes.pm in such way that it hungles WHERE without borrower number.
09:54 cait                 hi mrenvoize :)
09:50 rangi                a bit of a tutorial
09:50 huginn`              04Bug 7975: blocker, P1 - high, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED FIXED, can't use patron import
09:50 rangi                http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7975#c2
09:49 cait                 it's fun :)
09:48 dpavlin              once or twice before, but I will find my way around it ;-)
09:48 rangi                dpavlin: have you used bisect before?
09:47 rangi                yep
09:47 dpavlin              but it's not plack related since it doesn't work in cgi mode anyway.
09:46 rangi                git bisect will help you find it
09:46 rangi                ahh fair enough :)
09:46 dpavlin              yap. I'm testing plack on our librarians ;-)
09:46 rangi                hm you run master not 3.8.x ?
09:46 rangi                i hadnt noticed but will try to look
09:46 dpavlin              but, it's one of changes from last two weeks because our last update worked ok.
09:45 dpavlin              and on our production which was updated before comming here :-(
09:45 dpavlin              yap
09:45 rangi                hmm in master?
09:45 dpavlin              members/memberentry.pl?op=add seems to list ALL values available in database as opposed to providing empty form to enter value.
09:44 dpavlin              Did anybody saw problems with extended partron attributes lately?
09:34 * cait               waves
09:28 mtompset             DOH! Belated hello, david.
09:03 david                morning
09:03 rangi                hey david
08:55 mtompset             Focus. :)
08:55 francharb            I need to focus
08:54 francharb            back to the presentation
08:54 francharb            oh, see you later I guess...
08:54 francharb            cul?
08:50 slef                 bbl
08:48 slef                 only gmc and thd?
08:48 slef                 can you not auth accounts?
08:47 mbalmer              off to kohacon12, cul
08:47 slef                 eek why is my laptop messin up?
08:46 mtompset             So this is a SSH access issue.
08:46 mtompset             But you are listed as a bureaucrat... don't you have such access?
08:45 nengard              I think it's gmcharlt
08:45 nengard              I have rights to delete pages, but nothing related to users - so it's something for someone with access to the admin section of the wiki - whatever controls the sending of confirmation emails
08:43 mtompset             Is this really a thd or gmcharlt problem?
08:43 mtompset             Oh? But you have bureaucrat access, supposedly.
08:42 nengard              mtompset unfortunatly I can't help - I know that emails aren't going out but I'm on the one who manages the wiki ....
08:42 huginn`              mtompset: The operation succeeded.
08:42 mtompset             @later tell nengard I was wondering if you, or someone else might be able to help get me registered with the wiki. My userid is mtompset, as I am using here on the channel. Thank you in advance! :)
08:41 francharb            time to listen to the first presentation!
08:41 mtompset             Ah... thanks...
08:39 matts                mtompset,, it's @later tell :)
08:39 francharb            ;)
08:39 huginn`              francharb: The operation succeeded.
08:39 francharb            @later tell mtompset hi!
08:38 mtompset             @tell mtompset hello later
08:38 huginn`              mtompset: Error: I haven't seen later, I'll let you do the telling.
08:38 mtompset             @tell later mtompset hello
08:36 francharb            hi mtompset
08:36 francharb            hey jransom I'm good! you?
08:35 jransom              Francois - how are you?
08:35 mtompset             greetings, francharb.
08:28 francharb            good morning #koha
08:26 mtompset             :(
08:26 mtompset             Nope.
08:25 alex_a               mtompset: and you ?
08:24 alex_a               mtompset: yep
08:22 mtompset             Are you at #kohacon12?
08:21 alex_a               mtompset: ca va très bien merci !
08:21 alex_a               mtompset: good :)
08:21 clrh                 :)
08:21 mtompset             comme si comme ca... So so... :)
08:20 clrh                 mtompset: très bien et toi :)
08:19 mtompset             okay, here goes my rusty french... comme ca va? (sorry, don't know how to type a cedilla)
08:18 alex_a               hello mtompset
08:18 mtompset             hello, alex_a
08:17 wahanui              what's up, alex_a
08:17 alex_a               bonjour
08:11 mtompset             but the redirect command is 10 seconds.
08:11 mtompset             I find it funny that the message says if it doesn't redirect you in 5 seconds...
08:10 mtompset             Hello, clrh
08:09 clrh                 hello
08:08 mtompset             Hello, matts.
08:07 matts                hi !
08:04 mtompset             http://wiki.koha-community.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&group=sysop
08:04 mtompset             rangi said I need a bureaucrat level person to do it. :(
08:02 mtompset             I'm hoping to get wiki access to contribute documentation.
08:02 mtompset             oops... thd-away`
08:02 mtompset             Well, if someone sees nengard, gmcharlt, or thd_away`, please let me know.
08:00 jransom              nope - thats Brendan Gallagher from Bywater
07:58 mtompset             unless bag = Liz.
07:58 mtompset             It would seem that the mibbit irc client doesn't notify when someone connects.
07:51 jransom              heya all
07:49 bag                  hey jransom
07:47 mtompset             Hello, jransom.
07:45 jransom              Millie loves her shoelaces - thank you so much or sending them
07:45 jransom              Liz :)
07:40 mtompset             -- that's why I stick with 'good day'. As a 24 hour period, day is always correct. ;)
07:39 mtompset             afternoon. ;)
07:37 bag                  evening
07:36 mtompset             thd-away`: are you really away?
07:34 mtompset             pulling out?
07:34 slef                 biab, walking to teviot
07:33 slef                 the ones who are here are good... but some are pulling out :/
07:32 slef                 stuartyeates: why aren't you here? could do with more star turns ;)
07:04 mtompset             What country are you in currently? Seeing as it is 3AM EST, so I'm guessing not North or South America. :)
07:03 mtompset             Neither am I.
07:03 gaetan_B             mtompset: am not ;)
07:01 mtompset             ^@^#^
07:01 mtompset             Are you at @kohacon12, gaetan_B?
07:00 mtompset             Hello, gaetan_B.
07:00 gaetan_B             hello :)
06:58 mtompset             Sweet! That's my bug. :)
06:56 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8176 normal, P5 - low, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Stable , $sqlwhere is undefined in C4::Serials in GetSubscriptions
06:56 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8161 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , Cataloging home page should be accessible to users with permission to edit catalog or edit items
06:56 jenkins_koha         * colin.campbell: Bug 8176 [SIGNED-OFF] Assign an intial value to $sqlwhere
06:56 jenkins_koha         * oleonard: Bug 8161 - Cataloging home page should be accessible to users with permission to edit catalog or edit items
06:56 jenkins_koha         Project Koha_3.8.x build #41: SUCCESS in 48 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/41/
06:54 mtompset             A bit is obviously more than 10 minutes. ;)
06:43 mtj                  bbiab
06:41 mtompset             koha version update is the NEXT step.
06:40 mtompset             I'm installing 3.6.3, so transposing data, etc. will be much easier... the goal is OS version update. :)
06:39 rangi                i checked, fixed in master, 3.8.x and 3.6.x branches
06:39 rangi                yep
06:39 mtompset             I think it was fixed in 3.6.4
06:38 * paul_p             think too
06:38 rangi                ahh i think fixed already
06:38 mtompset             I don't know if it is still in 3.6.5
06:38 mtompset             3.6.3
06:38 rangi                what version mtompset ?
06:38 sophie_m             j'arrive paul_p ;-)
06:37 wahanui              bonjour, reiveune
06:37 reiveune             hello
06:37 mtompset             mv Reports.t db_dependent/
06:37 mtompset             mv Koha_template_plugin_KohaDates.t db_dependent/
06:37 paul_p               sophie_m = si tu veux venir petit-déjeuner, tu es la bienvenue ;-)
06:36 mtompset             Oh right... I remember now... I had to move two test files while installing Koha.
06:35 sophie_m             france
06:34 mtompset             Yourself?
06:34 mtompset             I'm a Canadian in the Philippines.
06:34 sophie_m             where are you from mtompset ?
06:33 mtompset             I'm not at #kohacon12. :(
06:33 mtompset             intentionally a reference to when userids could only be 8 characters. :)
06:32 mtompset             yes, my user id is chopped.
06:32 sophie_m             ok :-)
06:32 mtompset             Mark Tompsett
06:32 sophie_m             hi mtompset (what is your real name ?)
06:31 mtompset             Hello, sophie_m. :)
06:31 sophie_m             almost, I haven't got breakfast yet
06:31 sophie_m             hi rangi
06:31 rangi                ready for day 2?
06:30 rangi                hi sophie_m
06:23 mtompset             I think I saw thd once in the last couple days.
06:23 mtompset             well, thanks for the attempt, Chris.
06:22 rangi                heya mtj
06:22 * mtompset           has yet to see gmcharlt to be active here.
06:22 mtj                  (ive been tramping in sth-island for last week :) )
06:21 * mtj                waves to chris o
06:21 mtompset             but bureaucrats will use the same web UI that you are trying to use?
06:21 rangi                gmcharlt: about?
06:21 rangi                ie, those 2 can ssh into the box
06:21 mtompset             Ah....
06:20 rangi                thats quite different
06:20 mtompset             perhaps even adding a see also link to the page you pointed me at would be useful.
06:20 rangi                thats shell access
06:20 rangi                no
06:20 mtompset             The above link should have Nicole's name as person three in the first list.
06:19 mtompset             http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Website_Administration#wiki.koha-community.org
06:19 mtompset             Ah... so the documentation needs tweaking.
06:18 rangi                you need a bureaucrat, not just an adminstrator, i can block, delete pages etc, i cant elevate privileges, only a bureaucrat can do that
06:18 rangi                http://wiki.koha-community.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&group=sysop
06:17 mtompset             unless the documentation is out of date. ;)
06:17 mtompset             So, I guess it's thd or gmcharlt
06:17 mtompset             nengard is not listed in the top list of two.
06:17 mtompset             Says your six names.
06:17 mtompset             http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Website_Administration#wiki.koha-community.org
06:16 rangi                nope i cant, you need nengard, thd, or gmcharlt for that
06:14 wahanui              mtompset: I forgot mtompset
06:14 mtompset             wahanui forget mtompset
06:14 wahanui              you are doing this with 3.6.3, which is NOT current.
06:14 mtompset             mtompset
06:14 rangi                maybe, what's your username?
06:13 mtompset             I was hoping one of them might be able to get me wiki access. :)
06:13 mtompset             I suppose you aren't any of:     Galen Charlton     Thomas Dukleth     Nicole Engard     Chris Cormack     Paul Poulain     Magnus Enger
06:12 mtompset             good morning, Cait.
06:08 jenkins_koha         Starting build #41 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
06:08 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3638 normal, P2, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Stable , Status of hold not changed when item checked in via SIP2 Interface
06:08 jenkins_koha         * colin.campbell: Bug 3638 : Captured Holds may need to generate a transfer
06:08 jenkins_koha         * colin.campbell: Bug 3638 Self Check Should Capture Hold Items
06:08 jenkins_koha         Project Koha_3.8.x build #40: SUCCESS in 50 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/40/
06:06 cait                 no sun waking me up
06:06 cait                 quite grey outside this morning
06:00 huginn`              mtompset: The current temperature in Edinburgh, United Kingdom is 11.4°C (6:59 AM BST on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Light Drizzle. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.47 in 998 hPa (Steady).
06:00 mtompset             @wunder EDI
05:23 mtompset             hello, jenkins_koha
05:18 jenkins_koha         Starting build #40 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: FIXED)
05:12 huginn`              mtompset: The current temperature in Edinburgh, United Kingdom is 11.1°C (6:12 AM BST on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.50 in 999 hPa (Steady).
05:12 mtompset             @wunder EDI
05:09 mtompset             So, are any #kohacon12 folks really idling here?
04:45 mtompset             use constant;
04:45 mtompset             is there a constant library?
04:44 mtompset             Hmm...
04:40 chilts               in fact, if anything the qw(f1 f2) would probably use more, but honestly, don't worry about it
04:39 chilts               better to worry about how the code looks and feels than a few bytes of memory
04:39 chilts               I don't think it would make much difference and I personally wouldn't worry about it
04:33 mtompset             So in terms of memory use, does Use blah::blah; use more memory than use blah::blah qw (f1 f2);?
04:32 mtompset             I learned about paste.koha last night, but I just want quick and dirty.
04:32 Oak                  okay you guys discuss stuff, me go work on fixing my laptop.
04:31 Oak                  mtompset, you can also use this if you like: http://paste.koha-community.org/
04:31 mtompset             Does qw(f1 f2) reduce the amount of memory used?
04:31 mtompset             There is also a use YAML::Syck;
04:30 mtompset             http://mibpaste.com/KGxOOR
04:30 Oak                  chilts++
04:30 chilts               can't comment on that I'm afraid, don't know the source enough - but I know enough Perl to answer your previous question :)
04:29 mtompset             Shouldn't this be something that is more consistent in Koha?
04:29 chilts               some people like importing things into their own namespace, others don't - your judgement
04:29 chilts               correct
04:29 chilts               same thing
04:29 mtompset             but you can't this and that directly, unless it was qw(this that)?
04:29 chilts               so either you import it with qw(this) or call it using Something::Something::this
04:28 chilts               and Something::Something::that
04:28 chilts               the use statement brings the module in and if it doesn't import anything, you can still call Something::Something::this
04:28 chilts               (assuming the module exports something by default, which it shouldn't)
04:28 mtompset             then what is the point of the use statement then?
04:28 chilts               if qw() is empty, it'll _not_ import anything
04:27 mtompset             I'm a perl geek novice. :)
04:27 chilts               use Something::Something qw(this that); # imports this and that to your namespace
04:27 mtompset             Sucky... I just ran a mass grep, and was wondering what the difference between "use blah::blah;" and "use blah::blah qw();" is.
04:27 Oak                  perl geek i mean
04:26 Oak                  but you are right?
04:26 Oak                  but i want to become one. so i can help Koha :)
04:25 Oak                  nope.
04:25 mtompset             You're not a perl geek, are you, Oak?
04:23 huginn`              mtompset: The current temperature in Manila, Philippines is 32.0°C (12:00 PM PHT on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 26.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Falling).
04:23 mtompset             @wunder MNL
04:22 mtompset             That sounds much more pleasant than:
04:22 Oak                  good night bencahill
04:21 huginn`              Oak: The current temperature in Islamabad, Pakistan is 30.0°C (9:00 AM PKT on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 37%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
04:21 Oak                  @wunder islamabad
04:21 huginn`              mtompset: The current temperature in Edinburgh, United Kingdom is 11.0°C (5:20 AM BST on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.50 in 999 hPa (Steady).
04:21 mtompset             @wunder EDI
04:09 bencahill            lol
04:09 bencahill            cya
04:09 * mtompset           laughs, "organized?!"
04:09 bencahill            mtompset: Good lunch to you as well. ;)
04:08 bencahill            mtompset: re: while...that's perfectly understandable
04:08 bencahill            #koha and freenode/#darktable are two IRC channels I'd describe as friendly...although koha is a bit more organized :P
04:08 mtompset             Have a good night, bencahill.
04:08 mtompset             Anyways.. lunch for me, and bedtime for you. :)
04:08 mtompset             I'm just so familiar with 'for', I hadn't got to using 'while'. :)
04:07 bencahill            This is true.
04:07 mtompset             that's because #koha folks are friendlier.
04:07 bencahill            mtompset: np :)
04:07 bencahill            No, I just mean that they don't explain things to you in long ways like I did; they whip you into shape quickly :P
04:06 mtompset             thanks for the education.
04:06 mtompset             I claim to write usable bash, not good bash. :P
04:06 bencahill            ;)
04:06 mtompset             I don't claim to be a #bash expert.
04:05 bencahill            mtompset: heh, you wouldn't last long in freenode/#bash ;P
04:05 mtompset             Okay, I must conceed that the while method is superior and less fraught with side effects.
04:05 * bencahill          doesn't know the first thing about perl
04:04 mtompset             It got me thinking that perhaps there should be a mass hunt for '' and "" in the entire koha system to bring it up to spec.
04:03 bencahill            Oh, perl...
04:02 mtompset             and there was a link to some Perl::Critic page.
04:02 bencahill            I don't know what that is...
04:02 mtompset             and some qa person asked by not ''?
04:02 mtompset             which is why someone used $var = q{}
04:02 bencahill            mtompset: Also, as that page talks about, bash is much more inefficient using for to read a file, because it has to read the entire file twice into memory, rather than one line at a time.
04:01 bencahill            mtompset: Not everything is possible; do things the right way, and you'll be safe. :)
04:00 bencahill            mtompset: Nope, read the page you linked. It's still globbing, and doesn't get empty lines.
04:00 mtompset             But then while becomes shorter. ;)
04:00 mtompset             You can always change IFS to be a different delimiter (eg. \n), then for works. ;)
03:59 mtompset             Hmmm... looking into IFS
03:58 bencahill            mtompset: I'd highly recommend reading the BashGuide on that website; it is quite short, but will correct many of the common misconceptions I'm guessing you have. :)
03:56 bencahill            mtompset: Yeah, don't trust me...trust that wiki. It is awesome.
03:56 mtompset             I now see what you are talking about.
03:56 bencahill            mtompset: If you include quotes in yours as well (always a good thing), then it is two characters shorter...that's a very lousy excuse for using something that will fail.
03:56 mtompset             Okay cool.
03:55 mtompset             okay... just a second.
03:54 bencahill            mtompset: while read -r line; do echo "$line"; done <test.txt
03:54 bencahill            Yes.
03:54 mtompset             Oh, because you want the \s on the same line?
03:54 bencahill            mtompset: And you don't want to cat anyway!
03:54 bencahill            mtompset: PRECISELY! for failed.
03:53 bencahill            mtompset: And the 001 FAQ does...search for <( on it.
03:53 mtompset             http://mibpaste.com/ea9gcW
03:52 bencahill            mtompset: You mean for a command rather than a file? It's the same, just a different source of input.
03:52 mtompset             It doesn't explain why you used the sample for you used.
03:52 bencahill            mtompset: There are many pitfalls to using for that the wiki explains.
03:52 mtompset             ef gh
03:52 mtompset             Okay... let's say file X has:
03:51 mtompset             That doesn't explain it.
03:51 mtompset             Yes, if you next `'s you'll have to escape and it gets ugly.
03:51 bencahill            mtompset: Because of the links you and I linked to. :-/
03:51 mtompset             Yes.
03:51 mtompset             Why the whole $(...) mess?
03:51 bencahill            mtompset: With a for loop?
03:50 mtompset             Yes, but why not `...`?
03:50 bencahill            mtompset: Thus, I'm running it...not reading it.
03:50 bencahill            mtompset: Isn't ubuntu-pkg-check.sh something you run to get the desired output?
03:50 mtompset             from the URL I have said twice.
03:50 mtompset             for i in $(<afile); do echo "$i"; done
03:49 mtompset             It must be late, or I'm not being clear. :)
03:49 bencahill            mtompset: Where am I doing $(<file.txt) ?
03:49 mtompset             http://mywiki.wooledge.org/DontReadLinesWithFor
03:49 bencahill            No...where?
03:49 mtompset             You are saying don't use for, and then proceed to use $(<file.txt) in your example
03:48 mtompset             No, you aren't understanding...
03:48 bencahill            I didn't read lines with for... :-/ ...you did :-?
03:48 mtompset             http://mywiki.wooledge.org/DontReadLinesWithFor
03:48 bencahill            Ouch...
03:47 mtompset             `cat file.txt` is more legible
03:47 bencahill            mtompset: I didn't.
03:47 mtompset             Why did you $(<file.txt)?!
03:46 bencahill            It's best to learn things the correct way, and then you avoid bad things when they might bite you.
03:45 bencahill            mtompset: Yes, but will fail in some cases. See above ^^
03:44 bencahill            See this: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/001
03:44 mtompset             mine's shorter. :P
03:44 bencahill            That's what I would've done, actually.
03:43 bencahill            while read -r pkg; do sudo apt-get -y install "$pkg"; done < <(./install_misc/ubuntu-pkg-check.sh | grep none | cut -f1 -d' ' | sort)
03:43 mtompset             for i in `...`; do sudo apt-get -y install $i; done
03:42 bencahill            Oh.
03:42 bencahill            ?
03:42 mtompset             I suppose I could do a for loop
03:42 bencahill            Yup...I would as well. ;)
03:42 mtompset             I did it the way I'm familiar with.
03:41 bencahill            mtompset: ofc, you could also do that with sed/perl
03:41 mtompset             :%s/^/apt-get -y install /g
03:41 * bencahill          loves vim
03:41 bencahill            Yeah, I noticed that.
03:41 mtompset             Well, I did have to vi it.
03:40 bencahill            mtompset: I didn't bother to look at the file to see what it did, though. :P
03:40 bencahill            mtompset: Ah, no, looked pretty normal.
03:39 mtompset             ./install_misc/ubuntu-pkg-check.sh | grep none | cut -f1 -d' ' | sort > ~/installthese.sh
03:39 bencahill            mtompset: Your command line?
03:39 bencahill            Like this one: https://github.com/bencahill/binfiles/blob/master/picrenamer
03:39 mtompset             Okay... so my command line wasn't confusing to you?
03:38 bencahill            I write bash scripts though. :P
03:38 bencahill            mtompset: The latter...sort of...I'd just say I'm a power user.
03:38 mtompset             So are you more of a librarian type or a developer type, bencahill?
03:37 bencahill            lol
03:36 mtompset             I mean install.
03:36 mtompset             And that's before trying to compile up koha.
03:35 mtompset             Yep... estimating 4.5 hours.
03:35 mtompset             = about 32% done the script I generated.
03:34 mtompset             28/88
03:34 * mtompset           grins.
03:33 bencahill            It feels odd browsing the web so fast on this computer, like something is terribly wrong...in addition to the superior font rendering...
03:32 bencahill            tmux ftw!
03:32 bencahill            mtompset: It's the one I was on a few minutes ago (thus why I didn't disconnect)
03:31 bencahill            Yes. ;)
03:31 mtompset             Ah, so your linux server is a separate machine.
03:31 bencahill            No.
03:31 mtompset             Are you running a VM?
03:31 bencahill            I'm on danlap, viewing RDP on cahilllapa (linux). Web browsing is faster on cahilllapa than on danlap, so I'm doing it there.
03:31 bencahill            I don't know what you mean by host though...
03:30 mtompset             I'm aware. :)
03:30 bencahill            (RDP is a remote access protocol)
03:30 bencahill            mtompset: RDP..not VM, but yes.
03:30 mtompset             ^houst^host^
03:30 mtompset             you are telling me that web browsing in your VM is FASTER than browsing on the houst?!
03:30 bencahill            (years-old = painfully slow)
03:29 bencahill            mtompset: Probably a years-old XP install on a P4 2.66 with 512MB ram
03:29 bencahill            mtompset: Slow ;)
03:29 mtompset             Have a good night, jcamins_away
03:29 bencahill            jcamins_away: cya, I will be soon as well ;)
03:29 mtompset             why not web browse in the host?
03:29 * jcamins_away       wanders off to get some sleep.
03:28 bencahill            mtompset: Nice and simple...I use putty portable (portableapps.com)
03:28 bencahill            It's nice to have the possibility though.
03:28 * mtompset           likes putty. :)
03:28 bencahill            jcamins_away: 99% of time is SSH (putty)
03:28 bencahill            jcamins_away: I normally would, but I wanted to use a web browser.
03:28 mtompset             Because he probably is used to the gui.
03:27 jcamins_away         bencahill: RDP? Use SSH.
03:27 * bencahill          is now on a slow Windows computer, RDP'ed into his linux box
03:26 bencahill            (just for using virii :P)
03:26 bencahill            jcamins_away++
03:26 bencahill            mtompset: Hehe...I've never used it. We used to use AVG, then MSE for a while, and now Avast! (because its updates work through our proxy, unlike MSE)
03:26 jcamins_away         mtompset: fortunately Koha runs under Linux, and if you keep your security fixes up-to-date, Debian doesn't tend to get that many virii.
03:24 mtompset             Oh, and while I think of it, bencahill, Trend Micro is one of the worst Anti-Virus packages in the world!
03:22 huginn`              mtompset: The current temperature in Toronto Pearson, Ontario is 18.0°C (11:00 PM EDT on June 05, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Steady).
03:22 mtompset             @wunder YYZ
03:22 huginn`              mtompset: Error: No such location could be found.
03:22 mtompset             @wunder Toronto
03:21 huginn`              mtompset: The current temperature in Edinburgh, United Kingdom is 10.9°C (4:20 AM BST on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.53 in 1000 hPa (Steady).
03:21 mtompset             @wunder EDI
03:18 bencahill            brb
03:18 bencahill            Ah.
03:17 mtompset             vostro survives better. :)
03:17 mtompset             Well, here in the Philippines... heat and environment is a major kill factor.
03:17 bencahill            (actually $45)
03:17 bencahill            mtompset: Why so? We're looking at the Inspiron because its $50 cheaper (and has a bigger HDD, but that doesn't really matter for us)
03:16 mtompset             by the way... good choice on vostro over inspiron.
03:15 mtompset             vostro 260 mini tower... got it... okay.. looking at the specs now. :)
03:14 bencahill            mtompset: desktop
03:14 mtompset             laptop or desktop or all-in-1?
03:13 bencahill            (I knew they were switched, but couldn't remember which was which :P)
03:13 bencahill            Nope, guessing it's Vostro 260 and Inspiron 620
03:12 bencahill            It was 349 a few days ago, but is now 399 :(
03:12 bencahill            Also I think we were looking at the Vostro 620 MT
03:11 bencahill            mtompset: 260 I think...
03:11 mtompset             So what kind of inspiron are you thinking of bencahill?
03:10 bencahill            hehe
03:10 jcamins_away         bencahill: I didn't realize you worked for a church library... I thought you had an elementary school.
03:09 bencahill            jcamins_away: I see...I saw some of those in my searches a few days ago.
03:09 jcamins_away         ^^ bookshelf-sized computer for the Koha appliance.
03:09 jcamins_away         bencahill: http://www.amazon.com/Zotac-E-350-1-6GHz-Memory-ZBOX-AD02-PLUS-U/dp/B004XYJLXG/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1338952082&sr=1-1
03:09 mtompset             Or the US, but not the Philippines.
03:09 mtompset             Because it was a model sold in Hong Kong, but not the US.
03:09 mtompset             I've done computer support for our organization, and I'd have to keep asking people: "Where did you buy this computer?"
03:08 bencahill            mtompset: Ah, I see
03:08 mtompset             But I find that you need to look up at the right site location in order to find things. :)
03:07 mtompset             Okay... just looking up what you are describing. :)
03:06 bencahill            mtompset: Texas, USA
03:06 mtompset             Where are you located, bencahill?
03:04 bencahill            jcamins_away: Bookshelf-sized? Cool.
03:04 bencahill            jcamins_away: In fact, the last time we bought a computer before our latest (AMD 5000+, 2GB DDR2, 160GB SATA, Radeon HD 3450) was probably about 10 years ago o_o
03:03 mtompset             Ah... I understand.
03:03 bencahill            mtompset: church...
03:03 bencahill            jcamins_away: Yeah, most of our computers (including the current P4 server) have been given to us by friends and such.
03:03 mtompset             That's a tiny budget for a server.
03:03 * jcamins_away       sells bookshelf-sized Koha appliances.
03:02 bencahill            (oh, and 'tiny computer' = 10.4" tall o.0)
03:02 jcamins_away         Ahh. The last time I actually bought a desktop, 80GB was standard.
03:02 bencahill            mtompset: Budget is $300-400
03:02 mtompset             Actually, if you are getting a server, why not go with the optiplex?
03:02 bencahill            I spent the better part of a day figuring out what to buy and scouring eBay and such...
03:01 jcamins_away         Well, never mind that idea.
03:01 bencahill            jcamins_away: No, you can't drop it lower than it lets you...the one in question is an Inspiron 260, base model with upgraded CPU to i3-2120
03:01 jcamins_away         Right.
03:01 bencahill            jcamins_away: Not really...we could pay $330 for a tiny computer, but we really don't want that.
03:01 jcamins_away         250GB.
03:00 bencahill            Oh d'oh
03:00 wahanui              250 is, like, the number all of those wicked, naughty grant reviewers ask for
03:00 bencahill            250?
03:00 jcamins_away         bencahill: can't you pay less for a 250?
03:00 bencahill            jcamins_away: Yeah, we're not paying extra for that...
03:00 jcamins_away         With 2GB RAM, you're not going to be able to run a whole lot on that machine.
02:59 jcamins_away         bencahill: if I were trying really hard to save money, I probably would've gone with a smaller HDD.
02:59 bencahill            mtompset: The intel pages said 2nd
02:58 mtompset             Is i3-2120 the third generation intel?
02:58 bencahill            I think we're planning on getting a dell costing $355...a 500GB HDD and just 2GB RAM...
02:58 mtompset             But why not an i7-2600k?
02:57 bencahill            ;)
02:57 jcamins_away         bencahill: yeah, I think so.
02:57 bencahill            jcamins_away: I figure that will be a massive upgrade from our current P4 2.4 :P
02:57 mtompset             sounds nice.
02:57 bencahill            heh
02:57 jcamins_away         bencahill: woohoo!
02:56 * bencahill          is getting a box with an i3-2120 for new build
02:56 mtompset             Import mysqldmp of koha 3.6.3 being used on ubuntu 10.04
02:56 mtompset             Install empty koha 3.6.3: check
02:56 mtompset             Install Ubuntu 12.04: check
02:55 bencahill            Oh, you mean just transfer the db and settings, not the actual install of koha?
02:55 mtompset             The koha 3.6.3 install on ubuntu 12.04 is fresh
02:55 bencahill            Fresh install of koha...
02:55 mtompset             fresh
02:55 mtompset             the Ubuntu 12.04 is frensh.
02:54 bencahill            Oh, so not a fresh install?
02:54 mtompset             to koha 3.8.1
02:54 mtompset             and then from koha 3.6.3
02:54 mtompset             to Ubuntu 12.04
02:54 mtompset             I'm hoping to transport from Ubuntu 10.04
02:54 bencahill            Ah, cool.
02:54 mtompset             But the NEXT test is to do an upgrade.
02:53 mtompset             I am doing this with 3.6.3, which is NOT current.
02:53 mtompset             Sure... I've done it a couple times, but I'm trying to do it cleanly this time and document steps.
02:53 * bencahill          is going to bed now, will be back in a bunch of hours :P
02:51 bencahill            mtompset: I'll be installing on 12.04 soon as well...I'll hang around to see what your outcome is :P
02:41 mtompset             I figure that should take until mid-afternoon. :)
02:31 mtompset             then a nice :%s/^/sudo apt-get -y install /g
02:27 mtompset             shoot ... should have | sort first
02:26 mtompset             ./install_misc/ubuntu-pkg-check.sh | grep none | cut -f1 -d' ' > ~/installthese.sh
02:26 mtompset             getting same copy as what is running: 5 minutes
02:25 mtompset             apt-get update, upgrade: 20 minutes
02:25 mtompset             base install: 1.5 hours
02:22 mtompset             I'm doing a fresh install of koha under Ubuntu 12.04
02:18 * Oak                is cleaning his hard disk -- deleting stuff
02:17 Oak                  3.6.4
02:16 mtompset             what version are you running?
02:14 Oak                  yup
02:14 mtompset             So you just tweaked a setting in the system preferences somewhere, and added your own CSS?
02:12 mtompset             Greetings, jcamins_away.
02:12 Oak                  come in come in
02:12 Oak                  hello jcamins_away :)
02:11 * jcamins_away       wanders in.
02:11 Oak                  yup
02:11 mtompset             Did you generate those pages by overriding some opac CSS page?
02:10 Oak                  will add them soon.
02:09 Oak                  yes, i need text / content for those tabs.
02:09 mtompset             They didn't work.
02:09 mtompset             By the way, Oak. I tried clicking the pretty tabs at the top of your page link you gave me yesterday.
02:08 Oak                  :)
02:08 mtompset             I don't have a list. It's on the wiki. :P
02:07 Oak                  nengard and bengard were here yesterday, yes.
02:07 mtompset             http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Website_Administration#wiki.koha-community.org
02:07 Oak                  kidding
02:07 Oak                  you have a list?
02:07 mtompset             She's #3 on the list of potentially 6 people that might be able to help me.
02:07 Oak                  you'll get another chance :)
02:06 mtompset             What bugs me is that I saw nengard online yesterday, but forgot to mention my registration issues.
02:05 Oak                  we wait.
02:05 Oak                  administrator types may pop up.
02:04 * mtompset           waits for the wiki.koha-community.org administrator types to resurface.
02:00 mtompset             Anyone awake out there?
02:00 mtompset             Hello #koha.
00:11 * bencahill          searches a lot, according to Google's history. 25,175 total (and that's just since I've had this account!)
00:10 bencahill            mtj: Ok, that makes sense.
00:10 bencahill            Yup, 8:04pm (Central time) Jun 1, I searched for 'koha' and went to koha-community.org from there. So it's within the last 4 days.
00:10 mtj                  looks like the google f*ck-up hit kc.org on 4th june - 2 days ago...
00:06 bencahill            They say the Penguin update was April 24th, though. I know I searched for 'koha' (I'll look back in my Google Web History in a sec) less than a week ago, and k-c.org was second (after liblime). :-/
00:05 bencahill            Wow, that site has a lot of deets.
00:04 mtj                  http://searchengineland.com/penguin-update-peck-your-site-by-mistake-googles-got-a-form-for-that-119698
00:02 mtj                  'Google Penguin Update Recovery Tips & Advice' -> http://searchengineland.com/penguin-update-recovery-tips-advice-119650
00:01 mtj                  here's some more info about google's penguin update -> http://searchengineland.com/google-pushes-first-penguin-algorithm-update-122518