Time  Nick                 Message
00:01 mtj                  here's some more info about google's penguin update -> http://searchengineland.com/google-pushes-first-penguin-algorithm-update-122518
00:02 mtj                  'Google Penguin Update Recovery Tips & Advice' -> http://searchengineland.com/penguin-update-recovery-tips-advice-119650
00:04 mtj                  http://searchengineland.com/penguin-update-peck-your-site-by-mistake-googles-got-a-form-for-that-119698
00:05 bencahill            Wow, that site has a lot of deets.
00:06 bencahill            They say the Penguin update was April 24th, though. I know I searched for 'koha' (I'll look back in my Google Web History in a sec) less than a week ago, and k-c.org was second (after liblime). :-/
00:10 mtj                  looks like the google f*ck-up hit kc.org on 4th june - 2 days ago...
00:10 bencahill            Yup, 8:04pm (Central time) Jun 1, I searched for 'koha' and went to koha-community.org from there. So it's within the last 4 days.
00:10 bencahill            mtj: Ok, that makes sense.
00:11 * bencahill          searches a lot, according to Google's history. 25,175 total (and that's just since I've had this account!)
02:00 mtompset             Hello #koha.
02:00 mtompset             Anyone awake out there?
02:04 * mtompset           waits for the wiki.koha-community.org administrator types to resurface.
02:05 Oak                  administrator types may pop up.
02:05 Oak                  we wait.
02:06 mtompset             What bugs me is that I saw nengard online yesterday, but forgot to mention my registration issues.
02:07 Oak                  you'll get another chance :)
02:07 mtompset             She's #3 on the list of potentially 6 people that might be able to help me.
02:07 Oak                  you have a list?
02:07 Oak                  kidding
02:07 mtompset             http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Website_Administration#wiki.koha-community.org
02:07 Oak                  nengard and bengard were here yesterday, yes.
02:08 mtompset             I don't have a list. It's on the wiki. :P
02:08 Oak                  :)
02:09 mtompset             By the way, Oak. I tried clicking the pretty tabs at the top of your page link you gave me yesterday.
02:09 mtompset             They didn't work.
02:09 Oak                  yes, i need text / content for those tabs.
02:10 Oak                  will add them soon.
02:11 mtompset             Did you generate those pages by overriding some opac CSS page?
02:11 Oak                  yup
02:11 * jcamins_away       wanders in.
02:12 Oak                  hello jcamins_away :)
02:12 Oak                  come in come in
02:12 mtompset             Greetings, jcamins_away.
02:14 mtompset             So you just tweaked a setting in the system preferences somewhere, and added your own CSS?
02:14 Oak                  yup
02:16 mtompset             what version are you running?
02:17 Oak                  3.6.4
02:18 * Oak                is cleaning his hard disk -- deleting stuff
02:22 mtompset             I'm doing a fresh install of koha under Ubuntu 12.04
02:25 mtompset             base install: 1.5 hours
02:25 mtompset             apt-get update, upgrade: 20 minutes
02:26 mtompset             getting same copy as what is running: 5 minutes
02:26 mtompset             ./install_misc/ubuntu-pkg-check.sh | grep none | cut -f1 -d' ' > ~/installthese.sh
02:27 mtompset             shoot ... should have | sort first
02:31 mtompset             then a nice :%s/^/sudo apt-get -y install /g
02:41 mtompset             I figure that should take until mid-afternoon. :)
02:51 bencahill            mtompset: I'll be installing on 12.04 soon as well...I'll hang around to see what your outcome is :P
02:53 * bencahill          is going to bed now, will be back in a bunch of hours :P
02:53 mtompset             Sure... I've done it a couple times, but I'm trying to do it cleanly this time and document steps.
02:53 mtompset             I am doing this with 3.6.3, which is NOT current.
02:54 mtompset             But the NEXT test is to do an upgrade.
02:54 bencahill            Ah, cool.
02:54 mtompset             I'm hoping to transport from Ubuntu 10.04
02:54 mtompset             to Ubuntu 12.04
02:54 mtompset             and then from koha 3.6.3
02:54 mtompset             to koha 3.8.1
02:54 bencahill            Oh, so not a fresh install?
02:55 mtompset             the Ubuntu 12.04 is frensh.
02:55 mtompset             fresh
02:55 bencahill            Fresh install of koha...
02:55 mtompset             The koha 3.6.3 install on ubuntu 12.04 is fresh
02:55 bencahill            Oh, you mean just transfer the db and settings, not the actual install of koha?
02:56 mtompset             Install Ubuntu 12.04: check
02:56 mtompset             Install empty koha 3.6.3: check
02:56 mtompset             Import mysqldmp of koha 3.6.3 being used on ubuntu 10.04
02:56 * bencahill          is getting a box with an i3-2120 for new build
02:57 jcamins_away         bencahill: woohoo!
02:57 bencahill            heh
02:57 mtompset             sounds nice.
02:57 bencahill            jcamins_away: I figure that will be a massive upgrade from our current P4 2.4 :P
02:57 jcamins_away         bencahill: yeah, I think so.
02:57 bencahill            ;)
02:58 mtompset             But why not an i7-2600k?
02:58 bencahill            I think we're planning on getting a dell costing $355...a 500GB HDD and just 2GB RAM...
02:58 mtompset             Is i3-2120 the third generation intel?
02:59 bencahill            mtompset: The intel pages said 2nd
02:59 jcamins_away         bencahill: if I were trying really hard to save money, I probably would've gone with a smaller HDD.
03:00 jcamins_away         With 2GB RAM, you're not going to be able to run a whole lot on that machine.
03:00 bencahill            jcamins_away: Yeah, we're not paying extra for that...
03:00 jcamins_away         bencahill: can't you pay less for a 250?
03:00 bencahill            250?
03:00 wahanui              250 is, like, the number all of those wicked, naughty grant reviewers ask for
03:00 bencahill            Oh d'oh
03:01 jcamins_away         250GB.
03:01 bencahill            jcamins_away: Not really...we could pay $330 for a tiny computer, but we really don't want that.
03:01 jcamins_away         Right.
03:01 bencahill            jcamins_away: No, you can't drop it lower than it lets you...the one in question is an Inspiron 260, base model with upgraded CPU to i3-2120
03:01 jcamins_away         Well, never mind that idea.
03:02 bencahill            I spent the better part of a day figuring out what to buy and scouring eBay and such...
03:02 mtompset             Actually, if you are getting a server, why not go with the optiplex?
03:02 bencahill            mtompset: Budget is $300-400
03:02 jcamins_away         Ahh. The last time I actually bought a desktop, 80GB was standard.
03:02 bencahill            (oh, and 'tiny computer' = 10.4" tall o.0)
03:03 * jcamins_away       sells bookshelf-sized Koha appliances.
03:03 mtompset             That's a tiny budget for a server.
03:03 bencahill            jcamins_away: Yeah, most of our computers (including the current P4 server) have been given to us by friends and such.
03:03 bencahill            mtompset: church...
03:03 mtompset             Ah... I understand.
03:04 bencahill            jcamins_away: In fact, the last time we bought a computer before our latest (AMD 5000+, 2GB DDR2, 160GB SATA, Radeon HD 3450) was probably about 10 years ago o_o
03:04 bencahill            jcamins_away: Bookshelf-sized? Cool.
03:06 mtompset             Where are you located, bencahill?
03:06 bencahill            mtompset: Texas, USA
03:07 mtompset             Okay... just looking up what you are describing. :)
03:08 mtompset             But I find that you need to look up at the right site location in order to find things. :)
03:08 bencahill            mtompset: Ah, I see
03:09 mtompset             I've done computer support for our organization, and I'd have to keep asking people: "Where did you buy this computer?"
03:09 mtompset             Because it was a model sold in Hong Kong, but not the US.
03:09 mtompset             Or the US, but not the Philippines.
03:09 jcamins_away         bencahill: http://www.amazon.com/Zotac-E-350-1-6GHz-Memory-ZBOX-AD02-PLUS-U/dp/B004XYJLXG/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1338952082&sr=1-1
03:09 jcamins_away         ^^ bookshelf-sized computer for the Koha appliance.
03:09 bencahill            jcamins_away: I see...I saw some of those in my searches a few days ago.
03:10 jcamins_away         bencahill: I didn't realize you worked for a church library... I thought you had an elementary school.
03:10 bencahill            hehe
03:11 mtompset             So what kind of inspiron are you thinking of bencahill?
03:11 bencahill            mtompset: 260 I think...
03:12 bencahill            Also I think we were looking at the Vostro 620 MT
03:12 bencahill            It was 349 a few days ago, but is now 399 :(
03:13 bencahill            Nope, guessing it's Vostro 260 and Inspiron 620
03:13 bencahill            (I knew they were switched, but couldn't remember which was which :P)
03:14 mtompset             laptop or desktop or all-in-1?
03:14 bencahill            mtompset: desktop
03:15 mtompset             vostro 260 mini tower... got it... okay.. looking at the specs now. :)
03:16 mtompset             by the way... good choice on vostro over inspiron.
03:17 bencahill            mtompset: Why so? We're looking at the Inspiron because its $50 cheaper (and has a bigger HDD, but that doesn't really matter for us)
03:17 bencahill            (actually $45)
03:17 mtompset             Well, here in the Philippines... heat and environment is a major kill factor.
03:17 mtompset             vostro survives better. :)
03:18 bencahill            Ah.
03:18 bencahill            brb
03:21 mtompset             @wunder EDI
03:21 huginn`              mtompset: The current temperature in Edinburgh, United Kingdom is 10.9°C (4:20 AM BST on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.53 in 1000 hPa (Steady).
03:22 mtompset             @wunder Toronto
03:22 huginn`              mtompset: Error: No such location could be found.
03:22 mtompset             @wunder YYZ
03:22 huginn`              mtompset: The current temperature in Toronto Pearson, Ontario is 18.0°C (11:00 PM EDT on June 05, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Steady).
03:24 mtompset             Oh, and while I think of it, bencahill, Trend Micro is one of the worst Anti-Virus packages in the world!
03:26 jcamins_away         mtompset: fortunately Koha runs under Linux, and if you keep your security fixes up-to-date, Debian doesn't tend to get that many virii.
03:26 bencahill            mtompset: Hehe...I've never used it. We used to use AVG, then MSE for a while, and now Avast! (because its updates work through our proxy, unlike MSE)
03:26 bencahill            jcamins_away++
03:26 bencahill            (just for using virii :P)
03:27 * bencahill          is now on a slow Windows computer, RDP'ed into his linux box
03:27 jcamins_away         bencahill: RDP? Use SSH.
03:28 mtompset             Because he probably is used to the gui.
03:28 bencahill            jcamins_away: I normally would, but I wanted to use a web browser.
03:28 bencahill            jcamins_away: 99% of time is SSH (putty)
03:28 * mtompset           likes putty. :)
03:28 bencahill            It's nice to have the possibility though.
03:28 bencahill            mtompset: Nice and simple...I use putty portable (portableapps.com)
03:29 * jcamins_away       wanders off to get some sleep.
03:29 mtompset             why not web browse in the host?
03:29 bencahill            jcamins_away: cya, I will be soon as well ;)
03:29 mtompset             Have a good night, jcamins_away
03:29 bencahill            mtompset: Slow ;)
03:29 bencahill            mtompset: Probably a years-old XP install on a P4 2.66 with 512MB ram
03:30 bencahill            (years-old = painfully slow)
03:30 mtompset             you are telling me that web browsing in your VM is FASTER than browsing on the houst?!
03:30 mtompset             ^houst^host^
03:30 bencahill            mtompset: RDP..not VM, but yes.
03:30 bencahill            (RDP is a remote access protocol)
03:30 mtompset             I'm aware. :)
03:31 bencahill            I don't know what you mean by host though...
03:31 bencahill            I'm on danlap, viewing RDP on cahilllapa (linux). Web browsing is faster on cahilllapa than on danlap, so I'm doing it there.
03:31 mtompset             Are you running a VM?
03:31 bencahill            No.
03:31 mtompset             Ah, so your linux server is a separate machine.
03:31 bencahill            Yes. ;)
03:32 bencahill            mtompset: It's the one I was on a few minutes ago (thus why I didn't disconnect)
03:32 bencahill            tmux ftw!
03:33 bencahill            It feels odd browsing the web so fast on this computer, like something is terribly wrong...in addition to the superior font rendering...
03:34 * mtompset           grins.
03:34 mtompset             28/88
03:35 mtompset             = about 32% done the script I generated.
03:35 mtompset             Yep... estimating 4.5 hours.
03:36 mtompset             And that's before trying to compile up koha.
03:36 mtompset             I mean install.
03:37 bencahill            lol
03:38 mtompset             So are you more of a librarian type or a developer type, bencahill?
03:38 bencahill            mtompset: The latter...sort of...I'd just say I'm a power user.
03:38 bencahill            I write bash scripts though. :P
03:39 mtompset             Okay... so my command line wasn't confusing to you?
03:39 bencahill            Like this one: https://github.com/bencahill/binfiles/blob/master/picrenamer
03:39 bencahill            mtompset: Your command line?
03:39 mtompset             ./install_misc/ubuntu-pkg-check.sh | grep none | cut -f1 -d' ' | sort > ~/installthese.sh
03:40 bencahill            mtompset: Ah, no, looked pretty normal.
03:40 bencahill            mtompset: I didn't bother to look at the file to see what it did, though. :P
03:41 mtompset             Well, I did have to vi it.
03:41 bencahill            Yeah, I noticed that.
03:41 * bencahill          loves vim
03:41 mtompset             :%s/^/apt-get -y install /g
03:41 bencahill            mtompset: ofc, you could also do that with sed/perl
03:42 mtompset             I did it the way I'm familiar with.
03:42 bencahill            Yup...I would as well. ;)
03:42 mtompset             I suppose I could do a for loop
03:42 bencahill            ?
03:42 bencahill            Oh.
03:43 mtompset             for i in `...`; do sudo apt-get -y install $i; done
03:43 bencahill            while read -r pkg; do sudo apt-get -y install "$pkg"; done < <(./install_misc/ubuntu-pkg-check.sh | grep none | cut -f1 -d' ' | sort)
03:44 bencahill            That's what I would've done, actually.
03:44 mtompset             mine's shorter. :P
03:44 bencahill            See this: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/001
03:45 bencahill            mtompset: Yes, but will fail in some cases. See above ^^
03:46 bencahill            It's best to learn things the correct way, and then you avoid bad things when they might bite you.
03:47 mtompset             Why did you $(<file.txt)?!
03:47 bencahill            mtompset: I didn't.
03:47 mtompset             `cat file.txt` is more legible
03:48 bencahill            Ouch...
03:48 mtompset             http://mywiki.wooledge.org/DontReadLinesWithFor
03:48 bencahill            I didn't read lines with for... :-/ ...you did :-?
03:48 mtompset             No, you aren't understanding...
03:49 mtompset             You are saying don't use for, and then proceed to use $(<file.txt) in your example
03:49 bencahill            No...where?
03:49 mtompset             http://mywiki.wooledge.org/DontReadLinesWithFor
03:49 bencahill            mtompset: Where am I doing $(<file.txt) ?
03:49 mtompset             It must be late, or I'm not being clear. :)
03:50 mtompset             for i in $(<afile); do echo "$i"; done
03:50 mtompset             from the URL I have said twice.
03:50 bencahill            mtompset: Isn't ubuntu-pkg-check.sh something you run to get the desired output?
03:50 bencahill            mtompset: Thus, I'm running it...not reading it.
03:50 mtompset             Yes, but why not `...`?
03:51 bencahill            mtompset: With a for loop?
03:51 mtompset             Why the whole $(...) mess?
03:51 mtompset             Yes.
03:51 bencahill            mtompset: Because of the links you and I linked to. :-/
03:51 mtompset             Yes, if you next `'s you'll have to escape and it gets ugly.
03:51 mtompset             That doesn't explain it.
03:52 mtompset             Okay... let's say file X has:
03:52 mtompset             ef gh
03:52 bencahill            mtompset: There are many pitfalls to using for that the wiki explains.
03:52 mtompset             It doesn't explain why you used the sample for you used.
03:52 bencahill            mtompset: You mean for a command rather than a file? It's the same, just a different source of input.
03:53 mtompset             http://mibpaste.com/ea9gcW
03:53 bencahill            mtompset: And the 001 FAQ does...search for <( on it.
03:54 bencahill            mtompset: PRECISELY! for failed.
03:54 bencahill            mtompset: And you don't want to cat anyway!
03:54 mtompset             Oh, because you want the \s on the same line?
03:54 bencahill            Yes.
03:54 bencahill            mtompset: while read -r line; do echo "$line"; done <test.txt
03:55 mtompset             okay... just a second.
03:56 mtompset             Okay cool.
03:56 bencahill            mtompset: If you include quotes in yours as well (always a good thing), then it is two characters shorter...that's a very lousy excuse for using something that will fail.
03:56 mtompset             I now see what you are talking about.
03:56 bencahill            mtompset: Yeah, don't trust me...trust that wiki. It is awesome.
03:58 bencahill            mtompset: I'd highly recommend reading the BashGuide on that website; it is quite short, but will correct many of the common misconceptions I'm guessing you have. :)
03:59 mtompset             Hmmm... looking into IFS
04:00 mtompset             You can always change IFS to be a different delimiter (eg. \n), then for works. ;)
04:00 mtompset             But then while becomes shorter. ;)
04:00 bencahill            mtompset: Nope, read the page you linked. It's still globbing, and doesn't get empty lines.
04:01 bencahill            mtompset: Not everything is possible; do things the right way, and you'll be safe. :)
04:02 bencahill            mtompset: Also, as that page talks about, bash is much more inefficient using for to read a file, because it has to read the entire file twice into memory, rather than one line at a time.
04:02 mtompset             which is why someone used $var = q{}
04:02 mtompset             and some qa person asked by not ''?
04:02 bencahill            I don't know what that is...
04:02 mtompset             and there was a link to some Perl::Critic page.
04:03 bencahill            Oh, perl...
04:04 mtompset             It got me thinking that perhaps there should be a mass hunt for '' and "" in the entire koha system to bring it up to spec.
04:05 * bencahill          doesn't know the first thing about perl
04:05 mtompset             Okay, I must conceed that the while method is superior and less fraught with side effects.
04:05 bencahill            mtompset: heh, you wouldn't last long in freenode/#bash ;P
04:06 mtompset             I don't claim to be a #bash expert.
04:06 bencahill            ;)
04:06 mtompset             I claim to write usable bash, not good bash. :P
04:06 mtompset             thanks for the education.
04:07 bencahill            No, I just mean that they don't explain things to you in long ways like I did; they whip you into shape quickly :P
04:07 bencahill            mtompset: np :)
04:07 mtompset             that's because #koha folks are friendlier.
04:07 bencahill            This is true.
04:08 mtompset             I'm just so familiar with 'for', I hadn't got to using 'while'. :)
04:08 mtompset             Anyways.. lunch for me, and bedtime for you. :)
04:08 mtompset             Have a good night, bencahill.
04:08 bencahill            #koha and freenode/#darktable are two IRC channels I'd describe as friendly...although koha is a bit more organized :P
04:08 bencahill            mtompset: re: while...that's perfectly understandable
04:09 bencahill            mtompset: Good lunch to you as well. ;)
04:09 * mtompset           laughs, "organized?!"
04:09 bencahill            cya
04:09 bencahill            lol
04:21 mtompset             @wunder EDI
04:21 huginn`              mtompset: The current temperature in Edinburgh, United Kingdom is 11.0°C (5:20 AM BST on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.50 in 999 hPa (Steady).
04:21 Oak                  @wunder islamabad
04:21 huginn`              Oak: The current temperature in Islamabad, Pakistan is 30.0°C (9:00 AM PKT on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 37%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
04:22 Oak                  good night bencahill
04:22 mtompset             That sounds much more pleasant than:
04:23 mtompset             @wunder MNL
04:23 huginn`              mtompset: The current temperature in Manila, Philippines is 32.0°C (12:00 PM PHT on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 26.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Falling).
04:25 mtompset             You're not a perl geek, are you, Oak?
04:25 Oak                  nope.
04:26 Oak                  but i want to become one. so i can help Koha :)
04:26 Oak                  but you are right?
04:27 Oak                  perl geek i mean
04:27 mtompset             Sucky... I just ran a mass grep, and was wondering what the difference between "use blah::blah;" and "use blah::blah qw();" is.
04:27 chilts               use Something::Something qw(this that); # imports this and that to your namespace
04:27 mtompset             I'm a perl geek novice. :)
04:28 chilts               if qw() is empty, it'll _not_ import anything
04:28 mtompset             then what is the point of the use statement then?
04:28 chilts               (assuming the module exports something by default, which it shouldn't)
04:28 chilts               the use statement brings the module in and if it doesn't import anything, you can still call Something::Something::this
04:28 chilts               and Something::Something::that
04:29 chilts               so either you import it with qw(this) or call it using Something::Something::this
04:29 mtompset             but you can't this and that directly, unless it was qw(this that)?
04:29 chilts               same thing
04:29 chilts               correct
04:29 chilts               some people like importing things into their own namespace, others don't - your judgement
04:29 mtompset             Shouldn't this be something that is more consistent in Koha?
04:30 chilts               can't comment on that I'm afraid, don't know the source enough - but I know enough Perl to answer your previous question :)
04:30 Oak                  chilts++
04:30 mtompset             http://mibpaste.com/KGxOOR
04:31 mtompset             There is also a use YAML::Syck;
04:31 mtompset             Does qw(f1 f2) reduce the amount of memory used?
04:31 Oak                  mtompset, you can also use this if you like: http://paste.koha-community.org/
04:32 Oak                  okay you guys discuss stuff, me go work on fixing my laptop.
04:32 mtompset             I learned about paste.koha last night, but I just want quick and dirty.
04:33 mtompset             So in terms of memory use, does Use blah::blah; use more memory than use blah::blah qw (f1 f2);?
04:39 chilts               I don't think it would make much difference and I personally wouldn't worry about it
04:39 chilts               better to worry about how the code looks and feels than a few bytes of memory
04:40 chilts               in fact, if anything the qw(f1 f2) would probably use more, but honestly, don't worry about it
04:44 mtompset             Hmm...
04:45 mtompset             is there a constant library?
04:45 mtompset             use constant;
05:09 mtompset             So, are any #kohacon12 folks really idling here?
05:12 mtompset             @wunder EDI
05:12 huginn`              mtompset: The current temperature in Edinburgh, United Kingdom is 11.1°C (6:12 AM BST on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.50 in 999 hPa (Steady).
05:18 jenkins_koha         Starting build #40 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: FIXED)
05:23 mtompset             hello, jenkins_koha
06:00 mtompset             @wunder EDI
06:00 huginn`              mtompset: The current temperature in Edinburgh, United Kingdom is 11.4°C (6:59 AM BST on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Light Drizzle. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.47 in 998 hPa (Steady).
06:06 cait                 quite grey outside this morning
06:06 cait                 no sun waking me up
06:08 jenkins_koha         Project Koha_3.8.x build #40: SUCCESS in 50 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/40/
06:08 jenkins_koha         * colin.campbell: Bug 3638 Self Check Should Capture Hold Items
06:08 jenkins_koha         * colin.campbell: Bug 3638 : Captured Holds may need to generate a transfer
06:08 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3638 normal, P2, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Stable , Status of hold not changed when item checked in via SIP2 Interface
06:08 jenkins_koha         Starting build #41 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
06:12 mtompset             good morning, Cait.
06:13 mtompset             I suppose you aren't any of:     Galen Charlton     Thomas Dukleth     Nicole Engard     Chris Cormack     Paul Poulain     Magnus Enger
06:13 mtompset             I was hoping one of them might be able to get me wiki access. :)
06:14 rangi                maybe, what's your username?
06:14 mtompset             mtompset
06:14 wahanui              you are doing this with 3.6.3, which is NOT current.
06:14 mtompset             wahanui forget mtompset
06:14 wahanui              mtompset: I forgot mtompset
06:16 rangi                nope i cant, you need nengard, thd, or gmcharlt for that
06:17 mtompset             http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Website_Administration#wiki.koha-community.org
06:17 mtompset             Says your six names.
06:17 mtompset             nengard is not listed in the top list of two.
06:17 mtompset             So, I guess it's thd or gmcharlt
06:17 mtompset             unless the documentation is out of date. ;)
06:18 rangi                http://wiki.koha-community.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&group=sysop
06:18 rangi                you need a bureaucrat, not just an adminstrator, i can block, delete pages etc, i cant elevate privileges, only a bureaucrat can do that
06:19 mtompset             Ah... so the documentation needs tweaking.
06:19 mtompset             http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Website_Administration#wiki.koha-community.org
06:20 mtompset             The above link should have Nicole's name as person three in the first list.
06:20 rangi                no
06:20 rangi                thats shell access
06:20 mtompset             perhaps even adding a see also link to the page you pointed me at would be useful.
06:20 rangi                thats quite different
06:21 mtompset             Ah....
06:21 rangi                ie, those 2 can ssh into the box
06:21 rangi                gmcharlt: about?
06:21 mtompset             but bureaucrats will use the same web UI that you are trying to use?
06:21 * mtj                waves to chris o
06:22 mtj                  (ive been tramping in sth-island for last week :) )
06:22 * mtompset           has yet to see gmcharlt to be active here.
06:22 rangi                heya mtj
06:23 mtompset             well, thanks for the attempt, Chris.
06:23 mtompset             I think I saw thd once in the last couple days.
06:30 rangi                hi sophie_m
06:31 rangi                ready for day 2?
06:31 sophie_m             hi rangi
06:31 sophie_m             almost, I haven't got breakfast yet
06:31 mtompset             Hello, sophie_m. :)
06:32 sophie_m             hi mtompset (what is your real name ?)
06:32 mtompset             Mark Tompsett
06:32 sophie_m             ok :-)
06:32 mtompset             yes, my user id is chopped.
06:33 mtompset             intentionally a reference to when userids could only be 8 characters. :)
06:33 mtompset             I'm not at #kohacon12. :(
06:34 sophie_m             where are you from mtompset ?
06:34 mtompset             I'm a Canadian in the Philippines.
06:34 mtompset             Yourself?
06:35 sophie_m             france
06:36 mtompset             Oh right... I remember now... I had to move two test files while installing Koha.
06:37 paul_p               sophie_m = si tu veux venir petit-déjeuner, tu es la bienvenue ;-)
06:37 mtompset             mv Koha_template_plugin_KohaDates.t db_dependent/
06:37 mtompset             mv Reports.t db_dependent/
06:37 reiveune             hello
06:37 wahanui              bonjour, reiveune
06:38 sophie_m             j'arrive paul_p ;-)
06:38 rangi                what version mtompset ?
06:38 mtompset             3.6.3
06:38 mtompset             I don't know if it is still in 3.6.5
06:38 rangi                ahh i think fixed already
06:38 * paul_p             think too
06:39 mtompset             I think it was fixed in 3.6.4
06:39 rangi                yep
06:39 rangi                i checked, fixed in master, 3.8.x and 3.6.x branches
06:40 mtompset             I'm installing 3.6.3, so transposing data, etc. will be much easier... the goal is OS version update. :)
06:41 mtompset             koha version update is the NEXT step.
06:43 mtj                  bbiab
06:54 mtompset             A bit is obviously more than 10 minutes. ;)
06:56 jenkins_koha         Project Koha_3.8.x build #41: SUCCESS in 48 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/41/
06:56 jenkins_koha         * oleonard: Bug 8161 - Cataloging home page should be accessible to users with permission to edit catalog or edit items
06:56 jenkins_koha         * colin.campbell: Bug 8176 [SIGNED-OFF] Assign an intial value to $sqlwhere
06:56 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8161 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , Cataloging home page should be accessible to users with permission to edit catalog or edit items
06:56 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8176 normal, P5 - low, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Stable , $sqlwhere is undefined in C4::Serials in GetSubscriptions
06:58 mtompset             Sweet! That's my bug. :)
07:00 gaetan_B             hello :)
07:00 mtompset             Hello, gaetan_B.
07:01 mtompset             Are you at @kohacon12, gaetan_B?
07:01 mtompset             ^@^#^
07:03 gaetan_B             mtompset: am not ;)
07:03 mtompset             Neither am I.
07:04 mtompset             What country are you in currently? Seeing as it is 3AM EST, so I'm guessing not North or South America. :)
07:32 slef                 stuartyeates: why aren't you here? could do with more star turns ;)
07:33 slef                 the ones who are here are good... but some are pulling out :/
07:34 slef                 biab, walking to teviot
07:34 mtompset             pulling out?
07:36 mtompset             thd-away`: are you really away?
07:37 bag                  evening
07:39 mtompset             afternoon. ;)
07:40 mtompset             -- that's why I stick with 'good day'. As a 24 hour period, day is always correct. ;)
07:45 jransom              Liz :)
07:45 jransom              Millie loves her shoelaces - thank you so much or sending them
07:47 mtompset             Hello, jransom.
07:49 bag                  hey jransom
07:51 jransom              heya all
07:58 mtompset             It would seem that the mibbit irc client doesn't notify when someone connects.
07:58 mtompset             unless bag = Liz.
08:00 jransom              nope - thats Brendan Gallagher from Bywater
08:02 mtompset             Well, if someone sees nengard, gmcharlt, or thd_away`, please let me know.
08:02 mtompset             oops... thd-away`
08:02 mtompset             I'm hoping to get wiki access to contribute documentation.
08:04 mtompset             rangi said I need a bureaucrat level person to do it. :(
08:04 mtompset             http://wiki.koha-community.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&group=sysop
08:07 matts                hi !
08:08 mtompset             Hello, matts.
08:09 clrh                 hello
08:10 mtompset             Hello, clrh
08:11 mtompset             I find it funny that the message says if it doesn't redirect you in 5 seconds...
08:11 mtompset             but the redirect command is 10 seconds.
08:17 alex_a               bonjour
08:17 wahanui              what's up, alex_a
08:18 mtompset             hello, alex_a
08:18 alex_a               hello mtompset
08:19 mtompset             okay, here goes my rusty french... comme ca va? (sorry, don't know how to type a cedilla)
08:20 clrh                 mtompset: très bien et toi :)
08:21 mtompset             comme si comme ca... So so... :)
08:21 clrh                 :)
08:21 alex_a               mtompset: good :)
08:21 alex_a               mtompset: ca va très bien merci !
08:22 mtompset             Are you at #kohacon12?
08:24 alex_a               mtompset: yep
08:25 alex_a               mtompset: and you ?
08:26 mtompset             Nope.
08:26 mtompset             :(
08:28 francharb            good morning #koha
08:35 mtompset             greetings, francharb.
08:35 jransom              Francois - how are you?
08:36 francharb            hey jransom I'm good! you?
08:36 francharb            hi mtompset
08:38 mtompset             @tell later mtompset hello
08:38 huginn`              mtompset: Error: I haven't seen later, I'll let you do the telling.
08:38 mtompset             @tell mtompset hello later
08:39 francharb            @later tell mtompset hi!
08:39 huginn`              francharb: The operation succeeded.
08:39 francharb            ;)
08:39 matts                mtompset,, it's @later tell :)
08:41 mtompset             Ah... thanks...
08:41 francharb            time to listen to the first presentation!
08:42 mtompset             @later tell nengard I was wondering if you, or someone else might be able to help get me registered with the wiki. My userid is mtompset, as I am using here on the channel. Thank you in advance! :)
08:42 huginn`              mtompset: The operation succeeded.
08:42 nengard              mtompset unfortunatly I can't help - I know that emails aren't going out but I'm on the one who manages the wiki ....
08:43 mtompset             Oh? But you have bureaucrat access, supposedly.
08:43 mtompset             Is this really a thd or gmcharlt problem?
08:45 nengard              I have rights to delete pages, but nothing related to users - so it's something for someone with access to the admin section of the wiki - whatever controls the sending of confirmation emails
08:45 nengard              I think it's gmcharlt
08:46 mtompset             But you are listed as a bureaucrat... don't you have such access?
08:46 mtompset             So this is a SSH access issue.
08:47 slef                 eek why is my laptop messin up?
08:47 mbalmer              off to kohacon12, cul
08:48 slef                 can you not auth accounts?
08:48 slef                 only gmc and thd?
08:50 slef                 bbl
08:54 francharb            cul?
08:54 francharb            oh, see you later I guess...
08:54 francharb            back to the presentation
08:55 francharb            I need to focus
08:55 mtompset             Focus. :)
09:03 rangi                hey david
09:03 david                morning
09:28 mtompset             DOH! Belated hello, david.
09:34 * cait               waves
09:44 dpavlin              Did anybody saw problems with extended partron attributes lately?
09:45 dpavlin              members/memberentry.pl?op=add seems to list ALL values available in database as opposed to providing empty form to enter value.
09:45 rangi                hmm in master?
09:45 dpavlin              yap
09:45 dpavlin              and on our production which was updated before comming here :-(
09:46 dpavlin              but, it's one of changes from last two weeks because our last update worked ok.
09:46 rangi                i hadnt noticed but will try to look
09:46 rangi                hm you run master not 3.8.x ?
09:46 dpavlin              yap. I'm testing plack on our librarians ;-)
09:46 rangi                ahh fair enough :)
09:46 rangi                git bisect will help you find it
09:47 dpavlin              but it's not plack related since it doesn't work in cgi mode anyway.
09:47 rangi                yep
09:48 rangi                dpavlin: have you used bisect before?
09:48 dpavlin              once or twice before, but I will find my way around it ;-)
09:49 cait                 it's fun :)
09:50 rangi                http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7975#c2
09:50 huginn`              04Bug 7975: blocker, P1 - high, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED FIXED, can't use patron import
09:50 rangi                a bit of a tutorial
09:54 cait                 hi mrenvoize :)
09:54 dpavlin              Bug 5742 is to blame, commmit a6c6946dfc89b523988fc9478a94040d81d287a8 -- it changes C4/Members/Attributes.pm in such way that it hungles WHERE without borrower number.
09:54 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5742 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , batch edit patrons
09:55 dpavlin              I must admin, I read through the code instead of using git bisect, but revert does help ;-)
09:56 dpavlin              s/admin/admit/
09:56 cait                 dpavlin: ouch
09:57 rangi                phew not in 3.8.x
09:58 mrenvoize            Hi cait, and all..
09:58 rangi                hi mrenvoize :)
10:00 mtompset             Well, if anyone sees gmcharlt or thd, could you ask them about wiki access for me? :)
10:00 mtompset             I am taking off.
10:00 rangi                will do
10:00 mtompset             Oh, and I think I'd like to chat more with you dpavlin regarding your PHP patchwork for SAML 2.0 authentication later.
10:01 mtompset             Bye, #koha folks.
10:06 Oak                  Ahoy me hearties in a land far far away
10:45 david                i have 60 Perl pre-requisites missing when installing Koha for the first time.  Is that norma? :)
10:46 rangi                are you using the packages? and yep thats about right
10:46 cait                 hi Oak :)
10:47 rangi                david: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.8_on_Debian_Squeeze
10:47 rangi                that's how i install
10:47 david                rangi: installing from git files with 'sudo perl Makefile.PL'
10:47 david                right, this'll be the first perl based environment i've put on this laptop so maybe not so surprising :)
10:47 rangi                ah yep, that works too, the nice thing with the koha-common package is it will pull in all the dependencies for you
10:48 david                right, i'll try that then
10:49 rangi                then you can do the perl Makefile.PL and you should be all good
10:49 medmondson           : )
10:49 eythian              soon there will be a package that lets you just pull in the perl deps
10:50 rangi                yep
10:52 medmondson           can someone in Teviot tell Lee that I am on hold about to pay customs charges for the bags. : )  groovy hold muzak. tumdee dum.
10:55 medmondson           pls? :)
10:56 nengard              slef around?
10:56 nengard              or anyone - what time is the singer tonight? and is it in this room?
10:58 medmondson           singer is 7.00 for 7.30
10:58 cait                 I don't know - perhaps slef can say something about it between sessions?
10:58 medmondson           it is in the same room
10:58 cait                 thx medmondson
10:59 medmondson           singer details: Norrie 'Tago' MacIver
10:59 medmondson           if you want to google him.
11:01 rangi                i think this discussion needs to adjourn to lunchtime
11:02 medmondson           ACk
11:02 medmondson           singer is 7.30 for 8.00
11:06 medmondson           please can someone in Teviot tell Lee that I have located bags.  : )
11:06 rangi                i would but im about 8 rows away from her
11:06 rangi                i will at the break
11:07 medmondson           ty rangi
11:57 schuster             anyone with apache knowledge here? I'm having some trouble with virtual hosts
11:57 samuel               hi everybody
11:58 jcamins_away         schuster: I have a little bit of Apache knowledge.
12:00 schuster             I'm looking at koha-httpd.conf - when I restart apache I am getting NameVirtualHost *:80 has no VirtualHosts
12:00 schuster             When I look at the configuration file I can't tell what I have done wrong.  The server is up and running, but not all of my virtual hosts are accessible yet.
12:01 * mtompset           looks around. "Is anyone else here?"
12:01 * medmondson         waves
12:02 samuel               anyone with ldap knowledge? I'm also having troubles, certainly of mapping, because i've the following error "Unknown column 'flags"
12:02 mtompset             Sorry, I know nothing of LDAP.
12:03 jcamins              schuster: probably the hosts are listening on ipaddress:80
12:05 schuster             jcamins - sorry that means nothing to me.???  so what should I look at?
12:07 mtompset             How are you planning on setting up your koha? the default way with staff client at 8080 and opac at 80?
12:07 schuster             yes
12:07 hdl                  schuster: check that your vhost declaration
12:07 hdl                  has  :
12:08 hdl                  *:80
12:08 mtompset             just a second... I just did a "fresh" install on ubuntu 12.04... let me look.
12:08 hdl                  And not xxx.xxx.Xxx:80
12:08 jcamins              schuster: if you open up the koha-httpd.conf, check that it says <VirtualHost *:80>
12:08 hdl                  or any.
12:08 jcamins              Exactly what hdl said.
12:08 schuster             That is working when I do the standard, but I want to add another virtual host for the opac, with a special configuration and it won't take that.
12:08 mtompset             Are any other websites running of this same machine?
12:09 schuster             yes that is set on koha-httpd.conf
12:09 schuster             no other websites just koha.
12:09 hdl                  samuel: paste your koha-conf (only the part for ldap mapping)  on paste.koha-community.org
12:09 mtompset             Oh, so you want another opac on let's say 1234?
12:09 schuster             catalog.pisd.edu - koha-staff.pisd.edu:8080 - urls work.
12:10 mtompset             that's not the default configuration.
12:10 hdl                  schuster: would you mind pasting your koha-httpd.conf ?
12:10 schuster             I'm trying to do 001.catalog.pisd.edu - and it will open basically koha but with a different css
12:10 mtompset             those are different site names.
12:10 schuster             Yep just a minute
12:10 jcamins              schuster: okay, I see.
12:10 hdl                  not on irc.
12:10 jcamins              You're going to copy the entire <VirtualHost> stanza for the OPAC.
12:10 hdl                  But paste.koha-community;org
12:10 druthb               o/
12:11 jcamins              \o
12:11 pastebot             "schuster" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "part one of koha-httpd.conf" (189 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/431
12:12 schuster             hey druthb... and all thanks again for helping me out.
12:12 drojf                jwagner: slef asks if you could try phoning in please?
12:12 jwagner              drojf, now? I thought it wasn't for another hour
12:12 drojf                to test things
12:12 druthb               you're welcome, schuster. :)
12:12 drojf                its lunch break
12:13 jwagner              OK, give me a few minutes
12:13 samuel               hdl: ok, i'll do it :-)
12:13 mtompset             anyone here know a nice what to check between, %hash = undef, %hash = (), and %hash('a'=>'q');?
12:13 mtompset             ^what^way^
12:13 hdl                  schuster: I would have only NameVirtualHost *
12:13 jcamins              schuster: if you copy from <VirtualHost *:80> to the end of that part, then adjust the ServerName to "001.catalog.pisd.edu", try that.
12:13 hdl                  And not NameVirtualHost *:port
12:14 hdl                  %hash=()
12:14 hdl                  our undef %hash
12:14 hdl                  %has('a'=>'q') : no way
12:15 hdl                  mtompset: http://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~abatko/computers/programming/perl/howto/hash/
12:15 jwagner              drojf, calling now
12:16 jcamins              Well, that was a pretty incoherent sentence.
12:16 jcamins              schuster: but the suggestion still stands.
12:16 druthb               mtompset:  The second one can be found with "if (scalar keys %hash == 0) { "
12:17 pastebot             "samuel" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "connection ldap" (33 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/432
12:18 schuster             jcamins - what do you mean by end of that part?  Take out the whole virtualhost?
12:19 jcamins              schuster: I meant, copy <VirtualHost *:80>...</VirtualHost> so that you have a third virtualhost identical to that first one.
12:21 oleonard             Hi #koha
12:31 mtompset             scalar keys %hash == 0 is also true for %hash = undef;
12:34 druthb               hm..  In the past, I've never cared about the difference.  I darn-near always initialize them as %hash = () on purpose.
12:35 mtompset             Well, okay... here's the reason I am asking.
12:35 mtompset             if (! defined (%hash) ) {...}
12:35 mtompset             deprecated
12:35 mtompset             proper translation?
12:36 mtompset             I'm assuming it requires knowing the difference between empty keys and undef.
12:37 mtompset             Sorry, it doesn't really have to do with koha, but I figured perhaps some perl geeks might be intrigued by the question.
12:43 hdl                  samuel: pm
13:09 slef                 aha we are on
13:13 slef                 hello everybody...
13:15 rangi                http://untappd.com/user/ranginui <-- tracking my beer drinking
13:16 cait                 hi slef
13:16 slef                 all ok back there?
13:16 rangi                yup
13:17 sekjal               rangi:  nice!
13:17 slef                 got to stop drinking coffee now...
13:18 slef                 first question
13:18 wahanui              "What are you trying to do?"  "What is the goal?" or "What problem are you experiencing?"
13:20 rangi                im currently drinking an irn bru
13:21 rangi                im pretty sure there is the same amount of sugar as there is fluid in it
13:21 slef                 anything that bright orange cannot be good
13:21 rangi                heh
13:21 rangi                thats a good rule
13:21 slef                 sticky too
13:21 medmondson           irn bru++
13:21 cait                 slef: i told him, he likes it
13:22 slef                 one of their truck got stuck in Somerset
13:22 slef                 bbc will have pics but Iam text only here
13:22 slef                 he medmondson ... can you call S if you have not spoken with her?
13:23 slef                 hi
13:23 medmondson           slef I called S just before she went into the delicery depot
13:24 slef                 riiight... so she has your number
13:24 slef                 cool I think
13:24 medmondson           rangi I like your beer tracking page.
13:24 medmondson           slef depends on when i was meant to call her
13:24 rangi                its an android app, like foursquare, but for beer
13:24 medmondson           its great
13:24 slef                 she calledme for your number at 2
13:24 medmondson           Deuchars++
13:25 * medmondson         rings S
13:25 slef                 rangi I have beer for you...
13:25 slef                 not with me today
13:25 rangi                i have wine for you .. also not with me :)
13:26 slef                 saturday maybe
13:27 slef                 am yellow carding nengard meanly
13:28 rangi                saturday sounds like a good idea
13:29 NateC                Hi Everyone! I hope the conference is going well!
13:29 medmondson           rangi.  I just moved near here: http://www.corneliusbeers.com/  its by far the best in Edinburgh and is the most impressive rare/weird alcohol retailer that I have ever found
13:29 rangi                ohhh
13:29 medmondson           oh yes
13:29 rangi                is it near the uni?
13:29 medmondson           last night I was drinking kriek
13:29 medmondson           not really
13:29 medmondson           25/30 minutes walk. short bus
13:29 slef                 final tips from nengard
13:29 rangi                NateC: yeah it's going well
13:30 rangi                ahh bus, good idea
13:30 medmondson           rangi: http://www.brewdog.com/ these guys rock.
13:31 NateC                I thought you might like to hear a recent quote from one of our newly switched library partners (Ex Voyager Library)
13:31 rangi                maybe we can do a craft beer night one of the evenings
13:31 NateC                I wanted to add this to our press release for them but decided to go with a less colorful one
13:31 * rangi              waits
13:31 NateC                "Working with our old ILS was like licking the anus of a dead squirrel that’s laying bloated in the sunshine in the middle of the road on a hot summer day.  And there was also a negative side.  Koha is a wonderful improvement."
13:31 rangi                hehe
13:31 medmondson           : >
13:32 rangi                thats a shiny endorsement of voyager :)
13:32 cait                 ouch
13:32 NateC                heh
13:33 medmondson           very special
13:34 medmondson           newsflash #####
13:34 medmondson           conference bags have been located and are not in conference-organisers possesion
13:34 medmondson           woop woop
13:34 medmondson           ack
13:35 medmondson           conference bags have been located and are noW in conference-organisers possesion EVEN
13:35 sekjal               NateC: awesome.  flat out
13:35 NateC                :)
13:35 talljoy              conference bags full of awesome bling?
13:35 NateC                I thought so too
13:35 rangi                w00t!
13:36 medmondson           talljoy: wot bags themselves are not enough, sigh. ; )
13:36 * talljoy            will settle for sparkly or just plain shiny
13:40 drojf                that cornelisbeers.com shop looks quite nice
13:40 drojf                corneliusbeers.com even
13:45 mtompset             I blink, and there's conversation!
13:49 cait                 hi mveron :)
13:50 rangi                hi wizzyrea
13:50 wizzyrea             heya
13:50 cait                 hi wizzyrea :)
13:50 cait                 my surprise arrived!!!
13:51 wizzyrea             :D
13:51 wizzyrea             yep!
13:51 cait                 I was really worried by now!
13:51 druthb               wizzzzeeeeeee!
13:51 * druthb             offers hugs.
13:51 cait                 I hear the coconut chocolate has melted :(that one was especially for you
13:51 wizzyrea             aww, that's ok :) it's hot here.
13:51 * druthb             will be brining goodies from Germany to NEKLS this morning, once we all get stirring around.
13:51 * jcamins            tries to think of an additional pro to the "traditional" workflow for analytics, so that the slide will be balanced.
13:52 slef                 ok we are running
13:52 cait                 jcamins: :) thx!
13:52 * wizzyrea           will go try to find one just like it at au marché
13:52 rangi                hi libcoop
13:52 cait                 au marche?
13:52 libcoop              hi
13:52 wahanui              bonjour, libcoop
13:52 wizzyrea             our little european market here
13:52 cait                 oh :)
13:52 wizzyrea             they sell all kinds of things :)
13:52 cait                 hard to find something that is not already sold in US!
13:53 cait                 didn't know for example you had haribo (although i should have guessed that)
13:53 bencahill            It's active in here this morning! Is the conference still in action?
13:53 rangi                yep, day 2 today
13:53 wizzyrea             well, it's ever so much more special when it actually comes from the place it was made :D
13:53 bencahill            cool
13:53 slef                 oi
13:53 * bencahill          is going to go run now (2 miles) :)
13:53 wizzyrea             slef: I haven't had a chance to look at your link yet
13:53 rangi                oi?
13:54 cait                 wizzyrea: hope it's all yummy and you enjoy it :)
13:54 francharb            oï
13:54 rangi                oishi
13:54 rangi                i know
13:54 bencahill            oiboiy
13:54 cait                 means delicious in japanese?
13:54 asaurat              cait: yeaaah oishiii
13:54 rangi                yep
13:54 cait                 oishii dese ne!
13:54 cait                 desu
13:55 slef                 wizzyrea: I managed to post a new atta... wait no another topic...
13:55 rangi                su mi ma sen
13:55 slef                 ignore me
13:55 jcamins              slef: I'm going to be recording my talk today, and uploading it so you can play it tomorrow.
13:55 cait                 doumo arigatou gozaimasu?
13:55 wizzyrea             Google was also hitting websites for aggressive anchor text for keywords in backlinks even before Penguin. Post-Penguin, anchor text diversity becomes more critical. < this is what our problem is, I think.
13:55 francharb            slef : does "oi" really mean "hey you"?
13:55 sekjal               meeting time (about Ex Libris' Aleph... must control my disdain)
13:55 francharb            or something like that.
13:55 slef                 jcamins: cool. do you want to phone in fo q and a or linphoneor what?
13:55 rangi                komban wa, kore wa chris desu
13:56 francharb            that's what I heard
13:56 bencahill            @wunder 75654
13:56 huginn`              bencahill: The current temperature in RAWS HENDERSON TX US, Minden, Texas is 23.9°C (8:06 AM CDT on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Falling).
13:56 wizzyrea             1 million+ identical backlinks from a single site = bad.
13:56 cait                 rangi: douzu yorushiko
13:56 rangi                my fave is still iceu creamu
13:56 cait                 hm actually that looks wrong
13:56 cait                 hea pin
13:57 cait                 or
13:57 cait                 kurisumasu
13:57 slef                 francharb: oi is more what do you mean by that
13:57 jcamins              slef: I'd prefer linphone. I'll be at NEKLS during the Q & A, so we'll need to test from there.
13:57 cait                 so wh did we start talking japanese?
13:57 slef                 is edi not as special as nz?
13:57 jcamins              And, of course, if it doesn't work I can just phone in.
13:58 slef                 ;(
13:58 rangi                slef: ?
13:58 slef                 jcamins: ok we have changedlaptop but = will install linphone and co tonight
13:58 mtompset             Wow, lots of people... just not one of the two people I want here. ;)
13:59 bencahill            heh
13:59 bencahill            mtompset: Good evening ;)
14:00 mtompset             Hello again, bencahill.
14:00 slef                 can someone come get mic2 for questions please?
14:01 slef                 ok I go kick mjkaye
14:03 slef                 any feedback for jwagner?
14:03 slef                 any questions?
14:04 slef                 may be as easy here
14:04 mtompset             Seeing as I am not at #kohacon12, no questions. :P
14:05 slef                 hehe
14:06 slef                 http://ptfs.webex.com/ if you want to watch slides
14:06 slef                 but we fell back to phone for sound
14:09 mtompset             Meeting number?
14:10 francharb            jwagner, don't have any question for now but your presentation was very interesting!
14:10 francharb            thank you
14:10 francharb            ;)
14:10 jwagner              francharb, thanks -- how was the audio?
14:11 francharb            will your slides available
14:11 francharb            on the wiki
14:11 wahanui              i guess on the wiki is more information about the packages
14:11 francharb            jwagner, the sound was ok
14:11 francharb            :)
14:12 francharb            great!
14:12 francharb            thank you
14:12 jwagner              I'm going to reboot to get my normal setup back -- will be back online in a couple of minutes
14:13 SJeffery             Wow, that is a great presentation. I have a meeting with all of our staff on Monday and I will make use of that.
14:14 mtompset             DOH! I can't join, because the meeting is over. :(
14:14 slef                 and we mosee pdf link now mtompset
14:14 slef                 blurgh
14:15 slef                 I am juggling again
14:16 mtompset             Nice PDF presentation!
14:18 slef                 wb jwagner
14:20 jwagner              thanks -- I shut down a lot of my normal desktop stuff so I wouldn't get interrupted -- needed to reboot to get it all back :-)
14:21 mtompset             I have to bite my tongue when I think of users having a capital silent L. ;)
14:21 slef                 mtompset: you do cust support?
14:22 mtompset             not all the time, thankfully. :)
14:22 mtompset             much less now, which is good. I can focus on my strengths. :)
14:32 bencahill            I ran 2 miles in 18:36 :( ...gotta work on that...
14:32 mle_afk              rangi:  best ale pub http://www.list.co.uk/place/102899-the-cloisters/
14:33 mtompset             18:36... that's better than my 20 minutes.
14:33 mtompset             Of course, I doubt I could do it in 20 minutes now.
14:35 bencahill            mtompset: How old are you? I'm 18, and going to Basic Training (although not military) in 7 weeks. To get PT Excellence, I need to be faster than 12:54
14:35 rangi                mle_afk: ooh thanks
14:37 mtompset             I'm over double your age. ;)
14:37 bencahill            mtompset: Right, that's what I figured. ;)
14:37 * mtompset           jabs the young one for disrspecting his elders. ;)
14:37 bencahill            :(
14:38 * talljoy            hands poking stick to mtompset.  lol
14:38 * mtompset           laughs, "It's okay."
14:38 bencahill            mtompset: I was just saying that I can expect myself to run faster since I'm younger. :P ;)
14:38 mtompset             bencahill and I were talking bash earlier. We have an understanding. ;)
14:38 bencahill            hhe
14:38 bencahill            *hehe
14:39 mtompset             On second thought...
14:39 bencahill            My brother once ran an 11:18... o_O
14:39 * mtompset           uses the poking stick excessively on bencahill.
14:39 bencahill            lol
14:39 bencahill            hey!
14:39 * bencahill          pulls out his gaffer's tape and tapes the stick to the wall
14:39 mtompset             Has anyone seen gmcharlt or thd-away`
14:40 mtompset             I just emailed off that PDF link to my colleagues on this koha project I'm involved with.
14:41 bencahill            slef: How's the video/storage working out?
14:49 mtompset             Well, I think I'll call it a day.
14:49 mtompset             Have a good day, bencahill.
14:50 * mle_afk            waves to mtompset
14:50 mtompset             Bye, mle_afk.
15:01 jcamins              cait++
15:02 chris_n              jcamins: out delivering fudge?
15:02 mgeist               jcamins had fudge and didnt bring any to nekls yesterday?  Im hurt.
15:02 jcamins              chris_n: no, we're enjoying cait's chocolate.
15:03 chris_n              cool
15:03 jcamins              :)
15:03 * chris_n            is learning perl xs foo
15:03 jcamins              chris_n: why are you learning XS?
15:04 chris_n              I need to cook up a module to interface some perl scripts with the usps imb c libs
15:04 jcamins              Ah.
15:04 chris_n              imb == intelligent mail barcode
15:04 chris_n              although the intelligent part is in question
15:04 jcamins              Heh.
15:09 mtompset             okay, okay... a weirdness got my attention before getting to bed.
15:09 mtompset             use lib '/home/chris/git/koha.git';
15:09 mtompset             in the misc/translator/update.pl program.
15:12 jcamins              mtompset: don't use update.pl.
15:12 jcamins              It's deprecated.
15:12 jcamins              Use translate.
15:13 mtompset             I'm not using it... I was just looking for perl use statements, to make sure the package lists were up to date.
15:13 gaetan_B             bye !
15:13 jcamins              mtompset: okay, good.
15:13 jcamins              mtompset: definitely a bug, though. I'd report it.
15:13 jcamins              Eventually the script will be removed, I think.
15:14 mtompset             when was it deprecated?
15:15 jcamins              mtompset: not sure, exactly. A while ago.
15:17 mtompset             translate has 2010 in the (c)
15:20 gmcharlt             @quote random
15:20 huginn`              gmcharlt: Quote #197: "<chris_n> half-baked things are asking for trouble" (added by slef at 04:10 PM, April 05, 2012)
15:21 mle_afk              @help
15:21 huginn`              mle_afk: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
15:21 mle_afk              @help commands
15:21 huginn`              mle_afk: Error: There is no command "commands".
15:21 mle_afk              @help command
15:21 huginn`              mle_afk: (command <network> <command> [<arg> ...]) -- Gives the bot <command> (with its associated <arg>s) on <network>.
15:21 mle_afk              : p
15:21 wizzyrea_mib         mle what are you wanting to do?
15:22 mle_afk              play with the bot
15:22 mtompset             Ah! I see gmcharlt. :)
15:23 mtompset             I've been hoping to see you, gmcharlt, so I could confirm my email address which I registered with the Wiki.
15:24 mtompset             jcamins, what category do you think this deprecated misc/translator/update.pl should be under?
15:24 mtompset             component, I should say.
15:24 jcamins              mtompset: I think there's translation/i13n?
15:25 shari                hello!
15:25 wizzyrea_mib         heya :)
15:25 * jcamins            welcomes Shari to the #koha IRC channel.
15:25 cait                 hi shari :)
15:25 * cait               waves too
15:25 shari                hi! thanks for the box of goodies!
15:25 cait                 hope you like it!
15:25 shari                I'm looking forward to digging in.
15:25 cait                 so glad the package finally arrived
15:25 cait                 I got worried it wouldn't make it in time
15:26 shari                Well, it's a bit early for chocolates, but very soon I'll be indulging, I'm sure.
15:26 mtompset             Hmm... maybe command-line utilities? it says mainly in misc/
15:26 shari                I'll be back to editing, and that makes one hunger for sweets.
15:26 shari                It arrived at the same time we did.
15:26 shari                :-)
15:26 cait                 perfect timing then even :)
15:26 cait                 so druthb got no chance to eat them all up *hide*
15:26 wizzyrea_mib         rental charges on itemtypes - makes sense but OY hard to find
15:27 shari                lol
15:27 shari                she wouldn't do that!
15:27 cait                 chocolate ....
15:27 wizzyrea_mib         nomnomnomnomnom
15:28 cait                 :D
15:28 jcamins              mtompset: there's no section for internationalization?
15:28 cait                 rangi was refusing the sweets I offered to him... so glad you know what is good
15:28 cait                 ;)
15:28 shari                I've been well trained with Jared's fudge. I respect the goodies.
15:29 cait                 :)
15:29 slef                 I'm behind (some of) you!
15:29 slef                 </panto>
15:30 mle_office           no your not
15:30 mle_office           (or oh no youre not)
15:31 mle_office           I am heading back to Teviot now.
15:31 slef                 sorry... I'll go stand outside
15:32 mtompset             There is... but is this really an internationalization problem? or is this a misc utility that needs to be deleted?
15:32 mtompset             I went with the latter.
15:32 mtompset             Hopefully it will get noticed.
15:34 * mtompset           is sad...
15:34 mtompset             Still no wiki access.
15:34 cait                 mtompset: I am sory, we will try to work something out
15:35 mtompset             I was wondering if someone who does have access could tell me what groups they belong to.
15:35 mtompset             Because I am part of users and autoconfirmed users.
15:35 cait                 yes, I think it's a permission problem
15:35 slef                 mtompset: try to update a translation and see if it no longer works?
15:36 cait                 but we have to find someone who has permission to give permissions...
15:36 cait                 I think
15:36 mtompset             gmcharlt was here briefly.
15:36 mtompset             I missed him by 8 minutes.
15:36 druthb               shari:  cait:  Yes, she would eat them all up.  Yes, she would.  :P
15:37 cait                 mtompset: not usre, I haven't seen him - perhaps an autoated reconnect?
15:37 slef                 @later tell gmcharlt mtompset would like to talk to you
15:37 huginn`              slef: The operation succeeded.
15:37 slef                 @seen gmcharlt
15:37 huginn`              slef: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 16 minutes and 25 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> @quote random
15:37 druthb               why do you think I put them at the other end of the table?  At least now, I have go *get up* and go get munchies.
15:37 shari                @drruthb: Pixel will protect my share.
15:37 huginn`              shari: downloading the Perl source
15:37 mtompset             @seen mtompset
15:37 huginn`              mtompset: mtompset was last seen in #koha 1 minute and 23 seconds ago: <mtompset> I missed him by 8 minutes.
15:38 mtompset             Well, my timezone is telling me it is bed time.
15:38 mtompset             Enough installation work for one day.
15:39 mtompset             0 to installed in 1 day... another day to harden, reconfigure, and import data.
15:40 mtompset             Good day to you, #koha folk. :)
15:40 wizzyrea_mib         later :)
15:41 mtompset             Be back in 10. ;)
15:49 clrh                 bug 6874
15:49 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC
15:50 jcamins              clrh: I've tried it several times, and I just can't get it to work.
15:51 clrh                 erf
15:51 clrh                 I see your comments
15:52 clrh                 the patches are a litle bit old, did you tested the last rebased patch?
15:52 jcamins              clrh: yes I did.
15:52 jcamins              Exact same problems.
15:52 mtompset             brainwave! his email address was on some bug reports I submitted. :)
15:53 clrh                 :/
15:53 mtompset             :/? Did I miss some context?
15:53 jcamins              clrh: yeah, discussing bug 6874.
15:54 mtompset             bug 6874
15:54 mtompset             where's the bot?
15:54 cait                 hm
15:54 jcamins              mtompset: he's sulking because we just said bug 6874 so many times.
15:54 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC
15:55 cait                 wahanui botsnack luxemburgerli
15:55 wahanui              :)
15:56 mtompset             *smirk* the template extensions aren't bad... someone didn't go reading the code for the substitution in C4::Templates. :)
15:57 * mtompset           made the same initial mistake too.
15:59 mtompset             That is one ugly bug description.
15:59 mtompset             have fun discussing it.
16:12 wizzyrea_mib         i'm working poor jcamins hard today
16:23 SJeffery             lol so am I
16:25 * jcamins            works frantically.
16:38 paul_p               everybody at the pub, except me who is trying to test but 7818 to push it...
16:38 paul_p               (and except zeno, that is sitted near me)
16:38 paul_p               in 2 hours, we will have a scottish singer
16:38 jcamins              Bug 7818
16:38 wahanui              Bug 7818 is waiting for my QA. Should be pretty painless, as it works a charm.
16:38 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7818 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Passed QA , support DOM mode for Zebra indexing of bibliographic records
16:39 jcamins              Ah.
16:39 jcamins              paul_p++
16:42 paul_p               OK, I could make it work. The thing now is to make it reproductible :D (and write how I made)
16:43 paul_p               Just for fun, I got many zebra errors, the funniest one being :
16:43 paul_p               18:23:08-06/06 zebraidx(11130) [warn] extract error: generic
16:43 paul_p               (to say everything : Entity: line 84: parser error : Extra content at the end of the document
16:43 paul_p               <record
16:43 paul_p               ^
16:43 paul_p               18:23:08-06/06 zebraidx(11130) [warn] extract error: generic
16:43 paul_p               )
16:43 paul_p               seems it happens when your records are somehow invalid
16:43 paul_p               (in biblioitems page)
16:44 paul_p               worked well with grs1
16:46 jcamins              paul_p: GRS-1 just failed to handle those records, I think.
16:46 jcamins              (and any records after it)
16:47 paul_p               jcamins not sure that's it. dom indexing work without -x flag, fail with -x. it's not related to my invalid record as I thought
16:48 * druthb             blames jcamins
16:49 jcamins              paul_p: in that case, you don't have an invalid record, just an invalid marcxml blob.
16:50 jcamins              paul_p: how did you do that?
16:50 jcamins              :)
16:56 wizzyrea_mib         jcamins++
16:56 wizzyrea_mib         popularity is officially fixed - someone QA it!
16:56 wizzyrea_mib         bug 6557
16:56 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6557 normal, P3, ---, jcamins, Signed Off , biblioitems.totalissues unused
16:56 jcamins              sekjal: funness awaits!
17:01 SJeffery             Does anyone have any thoughts on removing the 505/520 from the either the main display or the description tab of the opac so that it only displays once?
17:04 wizzyrea_mib         oh hey, mgeist was here :)
17:04 * wizzyrea_mib       waves to her fellow kansan
17:04 mgeist               Still here.  It set me away.  I guess because im not talking?
17:04 SJeffery             No wave for me?
17:04 jcamins              SJeffery: yeah, I've thought about that... a lot, actually.
17:07 jcamins              I think the conclusion I reached was that probably we need to remove the fields from the Descriptions tab.
17:07 jcamins              Unfortunately, that's non-trivial.
17:08 wizzyrea_mib         ... i didn't know you were a fellow kansan :P
17:08 wizzyrea_mib         did I?
17:09 wizzyrea_mib         sometime's I'm like a goldfish -- ooh, a bubbler! ooh, a bubbler!
17:10 druthb               hi, mgeist!
17:10 * druthb             waves at SJeffery
17:10 SJeffery             jcamins: IMO it needs to be done. We would probably do that in combination of bug 6617, which should make a big difference.
17:10 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6617 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , table of contents not printing right if entered right
17:10 SJeffery             (I spent 5 years in KS and sitll think of it has home)
17:10 wizzyrea_mib         ohhhhhh
17:11 * wizzyrea_mib       has lived here for... a long time.
17:11 SJeffery             In fact, I was out there last October...I love the Linda Hall library
17:11 SJeffery             There is one we need to recruit to Koha!
17:11 wizzyrea_mib         ah yea good pt
17:12 jcamins              SJeffery: we really need the ability to hide any arbitrary 5xx fields from the Description tab.
17:12 jcamins              Oh, the Linda Hall science library is in KS? I thought it was in Chicago.
17:12 * jcamins            knows the director of special collections.
17:12 SJeffery             no, Kansas City (I cant remember which side of the border it is on)
17:13 jcamins              Hm. MO, apparently.
17:13 SJeffery             Ideally showing/hiding fields in the opac/serps would be a set of simple configuration changes.
17:14 * mgeist             grew up in KS, moved to DC for about 10 years, then moved back to KS
17:14 wizzyrea_mib         i think it's technically in MO
17:15 SJeffery             *checks the LHL job openings* dangit!
17:15 jcamins              SJeffery: agreed. Unfortunately, it's a bit non-trivial to do it.
17:15 jcamins              (to make it like that)
17:16 SJeffery             k. Well fwiw we will be taking care of 6617 one way or another.
17:17 jcamins              SJeffery: don't misunderstand me... I know *how* to do it. This isn't a mystery. It's just big enough a project that it will require some serious work.
17:17 wizzyrea_mib         plus, $$
17:17 jcamins              wizzyrea_mib: well, yeah, that's what 'serious work' means.
17:17 wizzyrea_mib         :) I'm just being *explicit*
17:18 SJeffery             Yeah. Since it involves such a fundamental change it is probably something we would want to pull in other libraries for
17:18 wizzyrea_mib         if someone did a quote, you could like, kickstarter it or something.
17:18 jcamins              wizzyrea_mib: good idea!
17:18 SJeffery             I just don't want us to end up being the only ones funding every major change:D
17:19 wizzyrea_mib         who is "us"
17:19 * wizzyrea_mib       is forgetful, remember
17:19 wizzyrea_mib         lotta strands in old duder's head.
17:19 SJeffery             The corporate library that I work for:D
17:20 * wizzyrea_mib       notes SJeffery's skillful skirting of the question
17:20 SJeffery             Nah, I just don't like the name showing up in search results, and since the chan is logged...
17:21 wizzyrea_mib         ah.
17:21 jcamins              Lunch time!
17:24 mgeist               Ooh good idea
17:24 bencahill            Yeah, me too.
17:25 SJeffery             All these east coast people!
17:25 bencahill_lunch      SJeffery: Texas!
17:25 paul_p               lunch time ? what a strange idea ? it's dinner time !!!
17:28 mgeist_lunch         Its okay, you can have eggos for either meal.
17:29 * bencahill_lunch    is cooking some hotdogs on an electric skillet
17:32 bencahill_lunch      I haven't done this before; let's hope I don't burn them...
18:26 mbalmer              anybody speaks gaelic and can translate?
18:33 YoungPublicLibrarian Hello everyone, I am in need of assistance with writing a Fines and Fees report for my library. I need help writing some code into it that will designate the patron's homebranch or allow us to select the homebranch at the beginning of the report.
18:38 YoungPublicLibrarian Anyone, any advice?
18:40 sekjal               YoungPublicLibrarian:  have you used the Runtime Parameters in SQL reports?
18:41 sekjal               http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjz_o3-SRQU
18:50 YoungPublicLibrarian Thank you sekjal! That was perfect!
18:51 sekjal               YoungPublicLibrarian:  glad to help :)
18:52 sekjal               there are lots of other Koha videos, too, most of them produced by our documentation manager Nicole Engard (nengard)
18:52 sekjal               she takes requests
18:52 YoungPublicLibrarian Yes, I've watched quite a few of them. I just didn't realize Runteime Parameters in SQL was what I was looking for... :/
18:52 sekjal               ah
18:53 sekjal               yes, it's not the most intuitive name for the function, I'll give you that
19:00 mgeist               Gotta boot to my XP partition, so I will be back later.
19:04 sekjal               random idea:  what if, instead of storing the binary MARC record in biblioitems.marc, we stored the MARC::Record object?
19:05 jcamins              sekjal: intriguing.
19:05 sekjal               then we could get that data structure without having to invoke MARC::Record every time to serialize and deserialize from the binary or xml
19:06 jcamins              sekjal: I like this idea.
19:07 sekjal               we'd still have to pass MARCXML for indexing
19:07 sekjal               well, at least for XML-based indexers
19:08 sekjal               but doing that every X seconds is less intense that reading/writing it for every single biblio-modifying transaction
19:09 jcamins              We still have to deserialize the XML into a MARC::Record for indexing.
19:11 sekjal               ... yeah, I think this might be a good thing.  store the data in the format it's most often used
19:11 sekjal               save on processing
19:11 jcamins              At no point is MARCXML used directly.
19:11 jcamins              Nor the binary MARC.
19:12 sekjal               hmmm, how susceptible to corruption would the stored MARC::Record object be/
19:12 jcamins              sekjal: not very.
19:12 jcamins              Serialize it with Data::Dumper.
19:13 sekjal               ... I'm liking this.  let's us abstract the data structure from the presentation a little bit more
19:13 jcamins              sekjal: at least, no worse than with MARCXML.
19:14 sekjal               jcamins: so long as it's not relatively worse, it's all okay by me
19:14 jcamins              I'm not sure that using a MARC::Record object abstracts significantly, but it does seem like an improvement anyway.
19:16 sekjal               would save on processing, and we could access the object directly with SQL, instead of having to use GetMarcBiblio or the like
19:17 jcamins              We'd also need the marcxml for reporting.
19:20 sekjal               hmm, yes, folks are depending on that as a workaround to get non-mapped MARC fields
19:22 magnuse              MARC must die!
19:24 * druthb             waves to magnuse.
19:25 * magnuse            waves to druthb
19:25 jcamins              magnuse: congratulations!
19:25 magnuse              jcamins: thanks!
19:31 sekjal               magnuse:  yes, congratulations indeed!
19:31 magnuse              sekjal: thanks! ;-)
19:31 druthb               congrats, magnuse!  jcamins just showed me the picture.
19:31 magnuse              druthb: thanks!
19:32 jcamins              sekjal: adding a follow-up for 6557.
19:32 magnuse              [off] http://www.enger.priv.no/lpbs/leonard.jpg
19:32 sekjal               awww!
19:34 magnuse              ;-)
19:35 jcamins              sekjal: passing in $record, $frameworkcode, and $totalissues (costing logical routine separation) for a performance gain seems to be going the wrong way in terms of code cleanup.
19:35 jcamins              It means we're duplicating code everywhere that we want to update the totalissues.
19:36 jcamins              That said, if you feel strongly, I don't care enough about code organization/duplication to argue any more than that. ;)
19:36 trea                 manguse that's a handsome fellow!
19:36 magnuse              thanks trea ;-)
19:37 sekjal               jcamins:  looking at 6557 was what prompted me to think of finding some kind of faster way to store and share the MARC
19:37 jcamins              sekjal: agreed that it'd be nice to have a faster way.
19:37 sekjal               efficiency is really important for anything circ related
19:37 jcamins              But computers will keep on getting faster.
19:37 magnuse              fastest of all: get rid of it! ;-)
19:37 magnuse              (nah, guess i don't really mean that, for now...)
19:38 jcamins              That's why I recommend against enabling instant popularity update.
19:38 jcamins              The expensive thing is always going to be writing the MARC record.
19:43 mtj                  morning #koha
19:44 wizzyrea_mib         fwiw, I don't think that instant popularity calculation is even worth it - I don't see the point of updating that stuff more than once a day - unless you have an extremely, extremely small or particularly active catalog, the popularity of items isn't probably going to change all that much.
19:44 * druthb             chucks handfuls of Skittles at mtj.
19:44 wizzyrea_mib         and certainly, imo, knowing what is popular today vs. what was popular 5 minutes ago... I don't see the point
19:46 * magnuse            doesn't know the backstory, but thinks what wizzyrea_mib says sounds reasonable
19:47 sekjal               jcamins: you mention in the bug report that with DOM, the addition of item circ info could be handled at indexing time
19:47 sekjal               is that right?
19:47 jcamins              sekjal: yes, that's a follow-up bug.
19:47 jcamins              Somewhere.
19:47 jcamins              sekjal: but I want to get this in first, because it might change the way the DOM indexing bit needs to be handled.
19:48 jcamins              Bug 8115.
19:48 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8115 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , DOM indexing configuration should compute totalissues from items.issues
19:49 sekjal               I would think that the total number of holds should also factor into a material's "popularity"
19:49 sekjal               but that's complicating the algorithm
19:49 sekjal               out of scope
19:49 jcamins              sekjal: yes, and "totalissues" is specifically about the number of times a bib had an item circulated.
19:50 jcamins              sekjal: there are sneaky ways to do better, though.
19:50 * jcamins            is a sneaky kind of guy.
19:50 wizzyrea_mib         yea, out of scope, definitely should be an improvement though
19:51 mtj                  wizzyrea: hiya - did you get my /msg before?
19:51 wizzyrea_mib         uh... just got it
19:52 wizzyrea_mib         ok answered you
19:54 mtj                  woah, anyone seen the cat-copter yet?
19:54 sekjal               mtj:  yes, last night
19:54 mtj                  http://motherboard.vice.com/2012/6/4/why-hate-the-catcopter-drones-are-the-real-flying-death--2
19:57 sekjal               jcamins:  your patch for 6557 really is awesome
19:57 sekjal               well documented, clean in it's implementation (nearly surgical)
19:57 magnuse              bug 6557
19:57 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6557 normal, P3, ---, jcamins, Signed Off , biblioitems.totalissues unused
19:58 sekjal               and what you're saying about code atomicity and cleanliness is very valid
19:58 sekjal               coming up with a more efficient means of getting biblio data may just be a project of it's own
20:02 wizzyrea_mib         pop u larity :)
20:09 chris_n              mtj: don't you have work to do? ;-)
20:11 bencahill_lunch      magnuse: I haven't been on in a while, but congrats! :)
20:15 jcamins              sekjal: I'm glad you like it.
20:15 jcamins              :)
20:17 * jcamins            is just about to sign off on a patch by shari. :)
20:17 shari                yay!
20:17 shari                patches!
20:17 wahanui              patches are on the bug
20:22 trea                 confusing?
20:22 wahanui              confusing is "Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
20:24 kathryn              hi everyone especially rangi and eythian :)
20:24 * kathryn            sits by herself and eats the chocolates on eythian's desk
20:26 magnuse              bencahill: thanks!
20:26 mtj                  kathryn, i bet he has more stashed in his top-draw
20:27 kathryn              mtj: good tip!
20:27 kathryn              and hi mtj!
20:28 mtj                  hi hi yourself :)
20:36 magnuse              shari++
20:38 shari                thanks for the karma!
20:39 magnuse              shari: keep the patches coming and there will be more :-)
20:42 atmanning            I am frustrated with koha after bringing in MARC records nothing is showing up in my catalog - what is wrong?  Using 3.8 that came with the live DVD iso
20:43 jcamins              faq?
20:43 wahanui              faq is found at http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/
20:43 atmanning            I can't even seem to be able to manually update my catalog - do I have to run this zebra script every time?  it takes about 1/2 hour!
20:44 jcamins              atmanning: take a look at the FAQ I just linked to.
20:44 jcamins              Where did you get a LiveDVD, BTW?
20:45 shari                I'll be working on more patches later, I think.
20:45 shari                Brain needs a rest now. I'm new at this.
20:45 shari                Perhaps this summer will be a koha bootcamp for me.
20:45 shari                I do have an in-house tutor.
20:45 magnuse              yay!
20:46 magnuse              koha_bootcamp++
20:46 magnuse              shari: and you have #koha, full of wonderful people
20:46 wizzyrea_mib         ^^
20:46 shari                Indeed!
20:46 wizzyrea_mib         magnuse - the fam home yet?
20:47 magnuse              wizzyrea_mib: nope, things take a little time
20:47 magnuse              perhaps on friday?
20:47 wizzyrea_mib         *nod* i know how that goes :)
20:47 magnuse              :-)
20:47 atmanning            I found the koha 3.8 live DVD found on sourceforge: sourceforge.net/projects/kohalivedvd-mk/?source=directory
20:49 atmanning            I had that faq and did run that script (before manually attempting to change the item count on one book and changed location after adding authorized values for LOC) - this is all very confusing grrr...
20:49 jcamins              Huh.
20:49 jcamins              I have absolutely no idea who that is.
20:49 atmanning            the faq referred to the script misc/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra.pl -b -r -v     which I have run a few times
20:50 sekjal               atmanning:  are there any error lines output by the script?
20:50 atmanning            I just jumped in trying to get help with a new Koha install - looking for help from wise people here..
20:51 wizzyrea_mib         a good plan :)
20:51 wizzyrea_mib         though I've not ever looked at that dvd before.
20:51 jcamins              atmanning: unfortunately, none of us have ever heard of this livecd, so chances are good we won't be able to help much.
20:51 atmanning            you want me to paste the output here?  it's 1/2 a screen of messages... no apparent errors
20:51 wizzyrea_mib         you can use paste.koha-community.org
20:51 jcamins              atmanning: use paste.koha-community.org
20:51 wizzyrea_mib         :)
20:53 sekjal               atmanning:  yes, the 1/2 screen of messages are the first place to look: will give us some clues as to what's working and what (if anything) is not
20:53 atmanning            I'm happy to use something else if I well get better performance long term..    I first tried an install of community version on Ubuntu 12.04 - tons of missing dependencies when running  perl Makefile.PL, backed down to Ubuntu 10.04 - same problems, so I gave up and tried the live DVD 3.2 - big MARC import bug-  now 3.8 live DVD - MARC imports worked ...
20:54 jcamins              atmanning: you should always read through the installation instructions.
20:54 jcamins              They tell you how to install the dependencies.
20:54 atmanning            did that - I'm now an expert at cpan, but it couldn't resolve them all
20:55 * druthb             waves at YoungPublicLibrarian.
20:55 jcamins              atmanning: you wouldn't have needed CPAN.
20:55 YoungPublicLibrarian Hello druthb!
20:55 jcamins              atmanning: pretty much everything is packaged.
20:56 jcamins              koha on ubuntu?
20:56 jcamins              ubuntu?
20:56 magnuse              is there a preferred way to delete things in the staff client? js-confirmation dialog v.s. an extra html confirmation page v.s. just delete once "delete" is clicked?
20:56 jcamins              Koha on Ubuntu is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
20:57 wizzyrea_mib         it's not uniform, magnuse
20:57 wizzyrea_mib         afaik
20:57 atmanning            hmm.... the install instructions said cpan for missing dependencies...   I'm happy to try something better supported...  there seem to be several versions floating around.  What is the recommended platform?   CentOS?
20:57 wizzyrea_mib         most people use debian.
20:57 jcamins              Debian!
20:57 jcamins              Or Ubuntu.
20:57 druthb               magnuse: you could create a button that says, "delete all these", that actually truncates the table, not just the ones showing on the screen.  that's a good idea.  Suuuuure.
20:57 wizzyrea_mib         http://koha-community.org/download-koha/
20:57 jcamins              CentOS is only recommended if you feel that your anticipated lifespan is too long.
20:58 wizzyrea_mib         @quote get 123
20:58 huginn`              wizzyrea_mib: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
20:58 wizzyrea_mib         no, uh....
20:58 wizzyrea_mib         @quote get 23
20:58 huginn`              wizzyrea_mib: Quote #23: "<gmcharlt> /msg huginn register nick password" (added by wizzyrea_ at 04:25 PM, August 06, 2009)
20:58 druthb               @quote search bacon
20:58 huginn`              druthb: 2 found: #16: "< wizzyrea> i mean, the point of american bacon..." and #17: "<wizzyrea> holy flaming bacon batman!"
20:58 atmanning            I thought Ubuntu *is* Debian variation - am I wrong?
20:59 YoungPublicLibrarian Okay, I have a report question if someone has time...
20:59 jcamins              atmanning: no, you are correct. :)
20:59 sekjal               atmanning: you are correct
20:59 wizzyrea_mib         it is a debian variant, but not debian :)
20:59 druthb               "Debian variation" != "Debian."
20:59 wizzyrea_mib         YoungPublicLibrarian: go
20:59 sekjal               there is enough divergence in what's in Ubuntu that it can sometimes create surprising 'gotchas'
20:59 wizzyrea_mib         ^^ this
20:59 jcamins              I wanted to clarify that Ubuntu was close enough for Debian for Koha work.
20:59 jcamins              Though I only use Debian anymore.
20:59 sekjal               I'm running Koha on Ubuntu right now (as I type)
21:00 * wizzyrea_mib       runs it on ubuntu too
21:00 * magnuse            too
21:00 magnuse              (not in production, though)
21:01 jcamins              I have one production server running Ubuntu 10.04.
21:01 wizzyrea_mib         I run one server on ubuntu, simply because I needed it right away and the OS was already installed :)
21:01 jcamins              Soon to switch to Debian, 'cause I got angry with 12.04, and don't believe in second chances.
21:01 wizzyrea_mib         harsh!
21:01 atmanning            Is there a general consensus on the best platform for a fresh install?   I wanted to use Ubuntu 12.04 and Koha 3.8
21:01 wizzyrea_mib         most people use debian, and it's got the fewest real gotchas.
21:01 wizzyrea_mib         debian squeeze.
21:01 atmanning            I thought the live DVD thing was a great deal but I'm not so sure anymore....
21:02 druthb               Debian Squeeze.  3.6.x or 3.8.x, dealers' choice.
21:02 wizzyrea_mib         you know, personally, I'd go for 3.6
21:02 YoungPublicLibrarian I want to use the generic report for "Fines w/ Patron & Item Info" from the "SQL Reports Library - Koha Wiki", but I want to have it ask to select a branch before running the report.
21:02 wizzyrea_mib         but that's just me
21:02 wizzyrea_mib         aha
21:02 wizzyrea_mib         YoungPublicLibrarian: ez
21:02 wizzyrea_mib         one min.
21:03 YoungPublicLibrarian I tried to use the Runtime video as a guide, but it came back with an error when I ran it...
21:03 atmanning            not debian 6.0.5 (latest stable)?
21:03 jcamins              atmanning: Debian 6.0.5 = Squeeze.
21:03 magnuse              atmanning: on debian you can install with packages: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.8_on_Debian_Squeeze
21:04 pastebot             "wizzyrea" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "for YoungPublicLibrarian" (16 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/433
21:04 magnuse              atmanning: "sudo apt-get install koha-common" - that will install all the dependencies
21:04 jcamins              atmanning: yes, that's the best way to do it.
21:05 atmanning            Downloading squeeze now....  Will be testing in virtualbox...
21:05 YoungPublicLibrarian Okay, so now if I want the borrowers address there as well I can just add things like b.address, b.city, b.state, b.zip...etc? Is that right?
21:05 jcamins              The 3.6 packages are still on an underpowered server of mine, though.
21:06 wizzyrea_mib         yep
21:06 YoungPublicLibrarian Awesome! Thanks Wizzyrea_mib! You've been an awesome help!
21:06 sekjal               atmanning:  are you looking for an installation to test using, or did you want to be edit/add to the code?
21:09 atmanning            I am testing whether this will work to port our library from Winnebago - hoping to import 135K marc records after successful install
21:11 wizzyrea_mib         YoungPublicLibrarian: did it work?
21:12 sekjal               atmanning:  sounds like the packages will work very well for you
21:14 druthb               atmanning: You'll probably need to rearrange the item data fields some; MARCEdit can do that, or write a little perl script.
21:15 atmanning            this last install (3.8 on Ubuntu 10.04) imported with no modification of export from Winnebago, but then I have problems with items showing up in searches
21:16 druthb               the 952 formatting is a little tetchy.  if stuff isn't in just the right place, then the items won't get imported.
21:16 YoungPublicLibrarian Wizzrea_mib: It did not. It gives me this error - <h1>Software error:</h1>           <pre>Can't use an undefined value as an ARRAY reference at /home/koha/kohaclone/reports/guided_reports.pl line 618.  </pre>             <p>             For help  please send mail to the webmaster (<a href="mailto:staff@bywatersolutions.com">staff@bywatersolutions.com</a>)  gi
21:17 YoungPublicLibrarian *Wizzyrea_mib (sorry, apparently can't type...)
21:18 wizzyrea_mib         <<Pick your branch|branches>> is what's in the documentation
21:18 wizzyrea_mib         so the problem may be that you have a space at the beginning of the report
21:19 wizzyrea_mib         that was for you YoungPublicLibrarian
21:21 YoungPublicLibrarian Okay, so you think I have a rogue space somewhere?
21:21 shari                @karma
21:21 huginn`              shari: Highest karma: "rangi" (583), "oleonard" (507), and "wizzyrea" (342).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-109), "failed" (-83), and "-" (-50).
21:22 shari                @karma shari
21:22 huginn`              shari: Karma for "shari" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4.
21:22 wizzyrea_mib         I think you have a rogue space before the report sql
21:22 druthb               shari++
21:22 wizzyrea_mib         and/or, you just need to take out the line breaks in the report
21:22 jcamins              @karma jcamins
21:22 huginn`              jcamins: Karma for "jcamins" has been increased 318 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 317.
21:22 wizzyrea_mib         @karma wizzyrea
21:22 huginn`              wizzyrea_mib: Karma for "wizzyrea" has been increased 342 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 342.
21:22 jcamins              @karma jcamins_away
21:22 huginn`              jcamins: Karma for "jcamins_away" has been increased 14 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 14.
21:23 druthb               @most increased
21:23 huginn`              druthb: "rangi": 588, "oleonard": 512, "wizzyrea": 342, "jcamins": 318, "gmcharlt": 311, "chris_n": 300, "cait": 291, "sekjal": 237, "paul_p": 226, "nengard": 216, "kf": 186, "magnuse": 166, "slef": 153, "druthb": 145, "eythian": 97, "fredericd": 71, "hdl": 68, "biblibre": 64, "hdl_laptop": 60, "jwagner": 54, "marcelr": 52, "kmkale": 46, "thd": 46, "atz": 44, and "pianohacker": 39
21:24 wizzyrea_mib         YoungPublicLibrarian: any luck?
21:26 YoungPublicLibrarian Yes and no. I can't get the silly thing to run, but someone else in the consortium took it and tweaked it a bit and now it runs fine. So thanks for the help and I think we got it now!
21:26 sekjal               alrighty, time for me to jet off for the night.  cheers, #koha!
21:26 wizzyrea_mib         woot :)
21:26 wizzyrea_mib         later sekjal
21:27 YoungPublicLibrarian Yes, thank you Wizzyrea! You have been a great help!
21:27 magnuse              wizzyrea++
21:28 jcamins              There we go. Another followup attached to bug 7936.
21:28 huginn`              04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7936 major, P5 - low, ---, nengard, Signed Off , general ticket for 3.8 help file updates
21:30 druthb               jcamins++
21:30 druthb               shari++
21:32 magnuse              wow, time to catch some sleep
21:32 magnuse              have fun, #koha!
21:32 * jcamins            records his presentation.
21:33 * druthb             makes funny faces at jcamins_presenting
21:35 mtj                  interesting -> http://www.seomoz.org/blog/how-wpmuorg-recovered-from-the-penguin-update
21:36 mtj                  ... looks like kc.org is in a similar situ to wpmu.org
21:39 mtj                  thanks $god we can now use our google-anal data to help solve the problem, at least
21:40 wizzyrea_mib         yep, that was the example that I found that seemed most like ours
21:41 jcamins_presenting   Oh my.
21:41 wizzyrea_mib         I took off the SEO plugin that did a lot of keywords
21:41 jcamins_presenting   I _do_ say "aboot."
21:41 wizzyrea_mib         it *may* help?
21:42 jcamins_presenting   I have the weirdest accent.
21:42 wizzyrea_mib         if the link text doesn't contain a keyword it may help, I mean.
21:42 * jcamins_presenting apologizes in advance to the non-native English speakers in Edinburgh.
21:42 wizzyrea_mib         it's ALL about relevancy now
21:43 * jcamins_presenting can't watch himself.
21:43 wizzyrea_mib         that's common :)
21:44 jcamins_presenting   However, the first part recorded fine.
21:44 wizzyrea_mib         another option would be to give the syspref several different options of what to use as link back
21:44 wizzyrea_mib         so that it seems relevant
21:46 mtj                  looking like the short version is... footer links to $your_domain is a no-no ?
21:46 mtj                  thats my hunch...?
21:47 wajasu               i've got my shell script that can create a debiansqueeze+mysql+apache2+koha-common  (it creates a kvm image file via libvirt/virsh in 5min with debian network install.iso and the image in my /dev/shm  /tmp directory.  upon boot its ready on port 80/8080) .
21:47 wizzyrea_mib         yes, and I think if we got MDAH to turn theirs off
21:47 wizzyrea_mib         and bsz\
21:47 wizzyrea_mib         that would be pretty huge.
21:47 bag                  mtj http://jezebel.com/5916095/teeny-tiny-pig-overcomes-his-fear-of-stairs-to-get-to-a-bowl-of-delicious-oatmeal
21:47 jcamins_presenting   wajasu: oh, did you did the livedvd?
21:48 mtj                  wajasu:  congrats...
21:48 wajasu               now, i am working on adding git based dev environment for patches.
21:48 bag                  mtj make sure you have your sound on when you watch that
21:48 wizzyrea_mib         someone was in earlier having trouble with indexing
21:48 bag                  ;)
21:49 bag                  wizzyrea_mib: what's m i b ?
21:49 druthb               m-i-b-bit, bag.
21:49 mtj                  bag:  not now please!  i'm building my radio-controlled cat-helicopter...
21:49 mtj                  bag:  short for mibbit..
21:49 bag                  heh that's why I thought of you mtj
21:50 bag                  I was totally thinking it was Men In Black…
21:50 wizzyrea_mib         because I'm using a <spew> windows computer
21:50 * wizzyrea_mib       was in a wow guild once called the "merciless iry brigade"
21:50 wizzyrea_mib         or the MIB
21:50 bag                  like wizzyrea_mib is all spy like
21:50 druthb               oi!  Careful with the spew, wizzyrea...I'm in the line of fire.
21:50 * wizzyrea_mib       does not spew on druthb
21:51 wajasu               jcamins_presenting: no livedvd.   just a script that i wrote that pulls abd builds from deb repos, and with a debian preseed file that does all the koha needed cusomizations.
21:51 jcamins_presenting   wajasu: oh, okay.
21:51 jcamins_presenting   wajasu: you should share that. :)
21:51 wizzyrea_mib         ^^ this
21:52 wajasu               yes.  i'll put it in pastebin, when i get the next part done.  git patch support.
21:52 jcamins_presenting   :)
21:52 wajasu               then later  in the wiki if folks want it.
21:52 wizzyrea_mib         oh, or, you could ask for push permission to contribs
21:52 wizzyrea_mib         that might be cool
21:54 wajasu               i saw that contribs. and i'll do that.  (one shell script to run).  its runs under my archlinux just fine.  (it assumes one has configured a bridge to the internet right now, and dhcp assigns an ip address, but that can be added later.
21:55 wajasu               does anyone know how big a git clone is in megabytes.  I need to know off hand for my kvm image size build.
22:01 YoungPublicLibrarian Okay, I was wrong...the report I thought was perfect was missing a few things...So, Wizzyrea, still willing to help?
22:02 wajasu               it will be nice for trying out difference distributions, or perl versions, etc.  i can't wait to try to run  koha unit tests.
22:03 shari                goodbye, all!
22:19 wajasu               ok git clone just over 1GB
22:38 slef                 hi
22:38 wahanui              what's up, slef
22:38 slef                 the sky
22:39 slef                 wahanui: the sky
22:39 wahanui              the sky is, like, the limit
22:43 slef                 hi drojf
22:43 drojf                hey slef
22:43 drojf                hope you all had a nice musical evening
22:43 drojf                i have a presentation now for tomorrow ;)
22:43 slef                 where were youuuuu?
22:44 drojf                had to finish my slides, took way longer than i thought :/
22:51 jcamins_away         slef: are you still here?
22:51 drojf                slef: is there some place now where we collect all presentations?
22:51 jcamins_away         slef: I'm having some transcoding issues, but I think I've got it licked.
22:51 jcamins_away         What format do you prefer the presentations in?
22:53 jcamins_away         (MPG, OGG, etc.)
22:54 drojf                jcamins_away: video or audio?
22:54 jcamins_away         drojf: both.
22:55 drojf                from a free software point of view i would say ogg theora/ vorbis, but that is just me.
22:57 jcamins_away         Maybe... one ogg theora/vorbis option, and one mpg/mp3 option?
22:59 slef                 jcamins_away: yep, am still here, but switching windows slowly
22:59 jcamins_away         slef: mpg/ogg/what would you like?
23:00 slef                 I think we have mplayer if I have the same laptop as this afternoon so whatever you think
23:00 jcamins_away         Okay, thanks.
23:00 slef                 display is as described on email
23:00 jcamins_away         Yep. :)
23:00 slef                 bit me this morning
23:01 slef                 my own laptop does not seem to like that display
23:01 jcamins_away         I'm sending a 640x480 video. The PIP said "just go and die."
23:02 jcamins_away         Aaaand, that didn't work.
23:04 * jcamins_away       kills his terminal by mistake.
23:26 drojf                better get some sleep. good night