Time  Nick            Message
00:05 jcamins         mtj: I've been having issues connecting all weekend.
00:05 chris_n         QOTD help files done
00:05 mtj             hmm, looks to be a debootstrap problem or bug...
00:06 rangi           you havent told it the distro, its trying to do sid and pulling from backports
00:07 mtj             aah, the url is borked :/ ->  http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports/dists/sid/Release
00:07 rangi           yes
00:07 mtj             only squeeze/stable
00:07 rangi           you probably have that in your apt/sources.list or something
00:07 mtj             http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports/dists/
00:07 rangi           not sure why you even want backports anyway
00:08 rangi           --distribution squeeze
00:08 rangi           id do, unless you really want to build packages for sid
00:10 mtj             yep, gotcha
00:12 mtj             theres a catch tho - it pbuilder fails with both --distribution squeeze-backports and --distribution squeeze :/
00:12 rangi           why backports?
00:12 rangi           ive never needed backports
00:13 mtj             'backports' coz its the only dist available here -> http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports/dists/
00:13 rangi           yes, but why are you even looking at backports?
00:13 mtj             ie: theres no 'squeeze' dist,  only 'squeeze-backports' available
00:13 rangi           yes ... at backports
00:13 rangi           which is unsuprising
00:14 rangi           because thats only for backports
00:14 mtj             oops :)
00:14 rangi           you prolly want ftp.nz.debian.org/something/
00:16 mtj             ok, so heres why i got confused before...
00:16 mtj             running this...
00:16 mtj             bash -x  pbuilder create --distribution squeeze    --othermirror 'deb http://debian.koha-community.org/koha squeeze main'
00:17 mtj             gives an error...
00:17 mtj             I: running debootstrap
00:17 mtj             I: Retrieving Release
00:17 mtj             E: Failed getting release file http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports/dists/squeeze/Release
00:17 rangi           yes
00:17 mtj             .
00:17 rangi           backports
00:18 rangi           you dont want backporst
00:18 mtj             so its hitting backports.deb.org anyway?
00:18 rangi           you want the actual debian repository
00:18 rangi           yes probably because in you /etc/apt/sources.list you have backports or something defined
00:20 mtj             yep, i have a backports line in /etc/apt/sources.list
00:21 mtj             deb http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports squeeze-backports main contrib non-free
00:22 rangi           yeah, so its using that
00:22 rangi           do you ahve a line for the actual debian repo too?
00:22 mtj             weird - pbuilder still hits backports.deb.org  - after removing that line ?!
00:23 mtj             rangi: hmm, could you paste an example , just in case?
00:23 Space_Librarian ola all.
00:23 mtj             i need a 'deb-src' line in /etc/apt/sources.list ?
00:24 mtj             heya Space_Librarian
00:24 wahanui         somebody said Space_Librarian was a Koha poet or the sweetest lil lady you'll ever know
00:25 mtj             hmm, weird my sources.list looks correct
00:25 mtj             ive removed all my backport line from  sources.list
00:26 mtj             ... and run 'apt-get update' - yet pbuilder still wants to use  backports.deb.org ?
00:27 jcamins         mtj: delete your fakeroot and redo pbuilder --create
00:38 mtj             jcamins:  i dont think i have a fakeroot to delete? :)
00:44 mtj             ok, so i found the pbuilder problem :) - looks like it wanted an explicit  '--mirror' arg
00:46 mtj             without the --mirror arg, it keep defaulting to backports.deb.org ,  for me :/
00:49 mtj             got there in the end... ;)
01:13 chris_n         can anyone confirm that that tag editor does not work for 005?
01:23 mtj             chris_n:  looks glitchy to me, on master
01:23 chris_n         I'll open a bug then, thanks
01:24 mtj             appears to save an edited value, but defaults to an autogen-ed value instead?
01:24 libsysguy       what would be the best way to transition off master and onto stable with a TINY bit of custom code for ldap
01:25 rangi           wait for 3.8.1, and switch to the 3.8.x branch, then cherry-pick your custom code
01:26 libsysguy       ok cool
01:26 libsysguy       that is what I thought
04:31 druthb          o/
04:36 bag             hi druthb
04:37 druthb          yo, bag. :)  Best Boss EVAR!
04:37 bag             you are only saying that cause you got to go to Jordan and spread Koha love ;)
04:37 druthb          I say that alla time, silly man.
04:38 bag             well thanks druthb I love hearing it…  But don't deserve it yet - give me a chance
04:38 druthb          :P  You've been saying that for more than a year now.
04:39 bag             I can be better
05:05 mtj             eythian:  fyi i fixed the borked tiny_mce symlink in the .deb/rules file
05:05 mtj             @bug 7589
05:06 huginn          mtj: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7589 major, P5 - low, ---, robin, Needs Signoff , tinymce editor broken in .deb packages - in 'en' templates
05:08 Space_Librarian ciao all! :)
05:13 mtj             heya space
05:13 bag             hey mtj
05:26 mib_we34nn      hi guys,
05:26 wahanui         somebody said hi guys, was there a way to search for and delete duplicate entries in koha?  I got a spreadsheet from our librarian which I converted to marc file and imported to koha. however (despite bigbrovar's warning) some of the files in the spreadsheet she gave me were duplicates of entries already in koha.
05:28 mtj             nope, fix your spreadsheet - then reimport
05:28 mib_we34nn      when i try to logout from my koha intranet its just disappearing and not loging me out. am forced to go to opac and then do the logging out  from there. how can i fix this?
05:36 mib_we34nn      where can i change BiblioAddsAuthorities because some fields seem to be locked.
05:37 druthb          o/
05:47 mib_we34nn      anyone aware of how to unlock some biblio fields that are locked?
05:52 Judit           https://demo-admin.calyx.net.au/cgi-bin/koha/admin/biblio_framework.pl
05:52 Judit           Create and manage Bibliographic frameworks that define the characteristics of your MARC Records (field and subfield definitions) as well as templates for the MARC editor.
05:52 Judit           choose a framework you want to modify and click on edit
05:54 Judit           and this might be the answer dor your logout problem: http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6970
05:54 huginn          04Bug 6970: major, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, oleonard, RESOLVED FIXED, logout not redirecting to login page
05:58 Oak             Ahoy me hearties
06:15 magnuse         kia ora #koha!
06:16 magnuse         wunder boo
06:17 magnuse         stupid ubuntu 12.04 messing with my keyboard...
06:17 mib_we34nn      thanks so much my logout is working well
06:17 magnuse         @wunder boo
06:17 huginn          magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 5.0°C (7:50 AM CEST on May 08, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 0.0°C. Windchill: 0.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady).
06:18 Oak             magnuse
06:19 druthb          Kia ora, magnuse and Oak!
06:19 Oak             :)
06:19 Oak             kia ora druthb
06:19 Amit_Gupta      heya bag
06:20 bag             heya Amit_Gupta
06:20 magnuse         hiya druthb Oak Amit_Gupta bag
06:20 bag             heya magnuse
06:20 wahanui         it has been said that magnuse is afraid that we added another 10000 bugs while he was eating pizza.
06:20 magnuse         hehe
06:20 magnuse         @wunder amman
06:20 huginn          magnuse: The current temperature in Amman Airport, Jordan is 15.0°C (9:00 AM EEST on May 08, 2012). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 13%. Dew Point: -6.0°C. Pressure: 29.82 in 1010 hPa (Rising).
06:20 druthb          wahanui: Oak?
06:20 wahanui         i guess Oak is Arslan. I am a student doing masters in Library Science (2nd semester). I am a web developer and work in Joomla. or good
06:20 druthb          heh
06:20 bag             pizza sounds better than 10000 bugs
06:21 magnuse         yay for pizza!
06:21 Amit_Gupta      heya magnuse
06:21 bag             mtj?
06:21 wahanui         DeM KraZy NutZ!!
06:21 Amit_Gupta      @wunder Bangalore
06:21 magnuse         bag: shouldnt you be sleeping now?
06:21 huginn          Amit_Gupta: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 25.0°C (8:30 AM IST on May 08, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: 21.0°C.
06:21 mib_we34nn      how do you unlock the locked fields in biblio framework?
06:21 Amit_Gupta      @wunder New Delhi
06:21 huginn          Amit_Gupta: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 35.0°C (11:30 AM IST on May 08, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 30%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 29.71 in 1006 hPa (Falling).
06:21 Amit_Gupta      @wunder Dehradun
06:21 huginn          Amit_Gupta: The current temperature in Dehradun, India is 34.0°C (11:30 AM IST on May 08, 2012). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 28%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1003 hPa.
06:21 bag             maybe it's only 11:21pm here
06:21 bag             Amit_Gupta: that's wicked hot
06:22 bag             @wunder 93109
06:22 huginn          bag: The current temperature in K6LCM-Westside/Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 13.9°C (11:21 PM PDT on May 07, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 98%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 29.91 in 1013 hPa (Rising).
06:22 magnuse         wow, the temp in amman was more pleasant than i would have thougt!
06:22 druthb          It's only 9 AM, magnuse.  It'll be a good bit warmer this afternoon.
06:22 bag             magnuse: it's probably still early there
06:22 druthb          It was quite cold last night.
06:23 magnuse         druthb: i suspected it might get hotter, yes
06:24 bag             wicked hot
06:24 bag             ;)
06:24 bag             druthb?
06:24 wahanui         She finally snapped, like we all knew she would.
06:24 druthb          It's still spring, bag...midsummer will be killer, I hear, but it's not too bad this time of year.
06:24 bag             oh noes
06:24 bag             forget druthb
06:24 wahanui         bag: I forgot druthb
06:24 bag             heh
06:25 druthb          meanie!
06:25 Amit_Gupta      heya druhtb
06:25 bag             brendan?
06:25 wahanui         i think brendan is with his family
06:25 druthb          It's supposed to get up to 36C here this afternoon...22C tonight.
06:25 bag             bag?
06:25 wahanui         I LIKE BASEBALL
06:25 druthb          hi, Amit_Gupta! :)
06:25 bag             druthb never snaps - she's too buddist for that ;)
06:25 Amit_Gupta      I LIKE CRICKET
06:25 magnuse         36 is hot-ish, yes... :-)
06:26 druthb          :P
06:26 druthb          wahanui: druthb?
06:26 wahanui         you are thinking she likes Amman.  A lot.
06:26 bag             Noice
06:26 magnuse         hehe
06:26 mib_we34nn      anyone aware of how to unlock locked field in koha?
06:27 druthb          imma trying to convince bag that we need a satellite office in Amman.  It's an easy place to like, for lots of reasons.
06:27 bag             convinced
06:27 magnuse         hehe
06:28 druthb          There *will* be a long-ish article about it on the blog, probably in 12 hours or so, with pics, and *why* I'm rapidly falling in love with this place.
06:28 bag             love it
06:28 magnuse         yay!
06:29 magnuse         mib_we34nn: have you seen the FAQ "Is there a way to not use authorities?" here: http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/ ?
06:29 mib_we34nn      let me check
06:32 mib_we34nn      i have gone as far as Home › Administration › MARC Frameworks › Books, Booklets, Workbooks (BKS)  but i cant trace BiblioAddsAuthorities  to allow the locked fields. where should i go?
06:35 mib_teg4gk      please help me to know to set system preferences
06:36 mib_we34nn      the issue is that, MAIN ENTRY--PERSONAL NAME has several locked fields an i dont seem to get where to unlock them. pliz help
06:36 magnuse         mib_teg4gk: when you see the list of frameworks you need to click on "MARC structure"
06:37 mib_we34nn      ok,
06:37 magnuse         then find the field you want to change
06:37 mib_we34nn      ok,
06:37 Judit           have a look at this maybe
06:37 Judit           http://blip.tv/bywater-solutions-tv/editing-frameworks-in-koha-3-4-5346390
06:37 magnuse         Judit++
06:37 mib_teg4gk      ok
06:37 mib_we34nn      let me check on it thanks sofar
06:38 mib_teg4gk      thanks for the information
06:50 mib_sgz3hw      anyone aware of how to unlock the locked fields in koha
06:51 Judit           oka
06:51 Judit           y
06:51 mib_sgz3hw      i have checked the FAQs and it is stated that , i can correct that by going to BiblioAddsAuthorities set to ‘allow’. where it is set to 'dont allow' but i dont know where to get this
06:54 Judit           i show you one
06:54 druthb          mib_sgz3hw: That's in system preferences, in the administration menu.  Search the system preferences for BiblioAddsAuthorities.
07:05 mib_sgz3hw      to all who have helped me thanks so so much . nice time
07:11 druthb          bonjour, francharb. :)
07:12 francharb       morning druthb !
07:12 francharb       :)
07:14 druthb          I got the closest I have ever been to Marseille over the weekend.  The inflight map showed us flying just south of there, at 10 km altitude.
07:17 francharb       druthb, where were you going to?
07:17 * druthb        is in Amman, Jordan.
07:20 francharb       lucky you
07:20 francharb       how long do you stay there?
07:21 druthb          a man just came thorough the office where I am working...my counterpart here said he was taking up collections for an orphanage, after he left..  I said I would be happy to contribute, so they called him back, and Ihab translated for me, and I gave him 20 dinars.    Good Karma Is Cheap.
07:21 druthb          I'll be here until the 18th of May.
07:26 francharb       oh but you are working
07:26 francharb       I thought you were visiting
07:26 francharb       anyway, must be great
07:26 francharb       :)
07:29 Oak             should I use the built-in label creator in Koha for printing barcodes, or is there a better option?
07:29 Oak             software... i mean
07:32 druthb          francharb:  yes, I'm workin'.  We're working with an organization here to improve Koha for Arabic and other right-to-left languages.  (and other facets of translation.)
07:32 druthb          hi, cait!
07:32 cait            hi all :)
07:33 francharb       sounds cool!
07:36 druthb          I'm working on right-to-left layout translation right now.
07:36 Oak             o dear people my question not worth an answer huh?
07:38 Oak             i am printing the just the barcode... the barcode lines, and the barcode number under the lines. the font of the numbers is too thin and smallish compared to the labels. how can I increase the font size of the barcode number?
07:38 Oak             the "Font" and "Font Size" option here << Home › Tools › Labels Home › Manage Label Layouts › Edit Label Layout  >> has no effect when I change them.
07:39 Oak             cait time for you to leave?
07:40 cait            :)
07:40 cait            no not today
07:40 cait            on vacation
07:40 Oak             cool.
07:40 Oak             help me then.
07:40 druthb          I've not worked with the labels much, Oak; I know there are some problems with some fonts.
07:40 francharb       Oak, I wish I could help you but I just don't know... :(
07:40 Oak             hmm okay. so how do you guys print barcodes?
07:41 francharb       Libraries I'm working with usually buy them on stickers
07:41 Oak             ah
07:41 Oak             that would be easier
07:42 francharb       If they dont, they use the label creator
07:43 cait            Oak: same here - buying premade barcode labels mostly
07:43 cait            I think chris_n might be able to help you with the font size - not sure who else
07:43 Oak             hmm. well next time i should do *that* then.
07:44 Oak             chris_n, are you free?
07:45 druthb          It's 03:45 for chris_n, Oak...probably not around yet.
07:45 Oak             ah. got it.
08:25 dgl-library     Hi #koha!
08:27 fredericd       druthb++
08:27 fredericd       for working on RTL languages
08:28 cait            hi fredericd :)
08:28 cait            druthb++ yep
08:28 druthb          thanks, fredericd.  I'm kind of improvising, as I only speak/read English. But the folks I am working with like what I'm doing so far.
08:28 francharb       ++
08:29 fredericd       druthb: Have you seen how UNIMARC XSL support Arabic/Hebrew writing?
08:30 druthb          You can take a look at the opac at http://L17.load.bywatersolutions.com
08:30 fredericd       it helps for multi-lingual catalogs
08:30 druthb          No, I haven't.  I'll be sure to, as that may be needed for MARC21, which is commonly in use in Jordan.
08:31 druthb          One of the things I want to address on this trip is having some mechanism for OPACMainUserBlock and other html blocks be switchable in value, based on the current language setting.  Very useful for multilinguals.
08:32 cait            druthb: but you have seen the 880 with hebrew in marc21, right?
08:32 fredericd       I'm not sure it's MARC21 transposable since it uses a UNIMARC $7 subfield containing explicitely the writing code
08:32 druthb          It's been a while since I looked at it, cait.
08:32 cait            fredericd: we have a solution for 880 fields in marc21
08:33 cait            [off]
08:33 cait            [off] https://hfjs.bsz-bw.de/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=dvd
08:33 druthb          we're also investigating a better way to deal with installer/data/mysql/<lang> than what we are doing now.  That's not sustainable, IMO; I'd like to move it --somehow-- into the existing translation framework.
08:33 fredericd       For OPACMainUserBlock, isn't CSS class="rtl" enough?
08:33 cait            [off] https://hfjs.bsz-bw.de/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=30613
08:34 fredericd       druthb++ for translating SQL files on the fly from .po files...
08:34 druthb          fredericd: That works, if you only want one language...the way I did it on that test opac works, but is non-optimal.  I want it where, if you're in English, you see English, if arabic, you see arabic.
08:34 cait            druthb: you would need a query parser for sql... not sure that is doable because it's hard to tell what is a string and what not
08:35 druthb          cait:  I'm thinking of using placeholders around the strings-to-translate....then only C4::Installer::load_sql needs to be fixed to cope.
08:35 cait            similar to how javascript works?
08:35 druthb          yes.
08:36 fredericd       druthb: I also agree that placeholder is the solution generally used in any software I've seen
08:36 fredericd       much more reliable than parsing (as done currently for templates)
08:36 druthb          My strategy is :  1) nothing at all that would be a fork..everything comes to the community.  2) minimal change for other devs  3) reduce the problem down to string translation with pootle, everywhere possible.
08:36 fredericd       and it allow translation on-the-fly, without generating files, again and again
08:36 druthb          fredericd: I agree with part of your latest on bug 8044--that needs to be in the existing translation framework.
08:36 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8044 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Signed Off , Localization for Perl scripts and modules
08:37 druthb          New directory==new complexity==bad.  But the patch *works* as it is, so his first swing at it is sound.  Now to make it "fit" better.
08:37 rangi           Also fredericd is right about using the appropriate modules
08:38 * druthb        nods.  As I've not worked with either before, I'm unqualified to have an opinion.
08:38 fredericd       For me, the difficulty is that if we switch to a coherent translation framework, whichever it is, we will have to mark string to be translated in ALL existing templates
08:38 druthb          That'd be a bit of a chore.
08:38 fredericd       I don't see how it could be done incrementaly
08:38 cait            h fun
08:38 cait            oh fun
08:39 fredericd       maybe a MEGA hackfest!
08:39 rangi           Yep it would have to be done in one go, and right at the start of a cycle
08:39 druthb          Yah, it's almost gonna have to be a red-letter-day switch.  There are about 450 templates in the staff, about 50 in OPAC.
08:39 rangi           So have 6 months to fix
08:40 fredericd       druthb: The translation framework I would favor is done by a German: https://metacpan.org/author/GUIDO
08:41 fredericd       You could get in touch directly with him
08:41 fredericd       He manages a large web application with its framework
08:41 druthb          by the by, fredericd...the current ar-Arab .po files simply do not apply...the  translate script can't make it fly.  That load server is running 3.6.x...I don't know who has messed up the .po for that, but it is a serious mess.  (also, my Arabic friends tell me, the quality of the translation of strings is pretty poor.
08:41 cait            and we have to find a way to keep existing translations
08:41 cait            I mean transfer existing work to the new framework
08:42 fredericd       cait: almost impossible...
08:42 cait            well we should try
08:42 cait            it takes weeks
08:42 cait            and then oyu have something that is not consistent
08:42 cait            it took ages to get translations where I don't fall over a typo or weird term on every page
08:43 rangi           Also it needs to be very fast
08:43 fredericd       cait: But with an improved framework, we could avoid having non-sense strings to translate, and much less strings, and constructed strings, no pieces of strings
08:43 druthb          !
08:43 fredericd       rangi: no speed issue with persistency
08:44 rangi           Yes there is
08:44 fredericd       the whole translation file is loaded in memory, and getting translation is just a lookup in hash
08:44 rangi           There is always speed issues, just less
08:44 fredericd       yes
08:44 rangi           That's still slower
08:45 * druthb        is feeling smug.  The office boy here--who speaks no English at all--came in, carrying a tiny cup of turkish coffee for my counterpart.  He looked at me, and pointed at the cup with a questioning look...and I said, "shy"...and he brought me tea, sugared just right for me.
08:45 magnuse         yay
08:45 fredericd       druthb: Do you want the name and email address of the person responsible of Arabic translation?
08:46 druthb          please.  The folks I'm working with here will probably want to talk to them....could you email?
08:46 fredericd       y
08:47 fredericd       It's a team of Syrian, Algerian, Tunisian people,
08:47 cait            I am not sure on the fly translation will solve all our problems
08:47 cait            it's too complicated for that
08:47 cait            we have lots of javascript
08:47 cait            we have xml
08:47 cait            we have tt
08:48 cait            we have lots of different components and things playing together
08:48 cait            and i worry that persistency will not make it fast enough - like rangi said
08:50 druthb          The locals here are trying to ramp up projects *now*, so I'm working in the existing framework--hopefully, we have time for a better one soon, but these folks are hot to trot to get Koha busy displacing SirsiDynix in the middle-east.
08:50 cait            :)
08:50 cait            I think moving the opac system preferneces
08:50 cait            into something like the news editor would be nice
08:50 rangi           Poedit will tell u what's wrong with the .po file
08:51 cait            and adding a default language system preference
08:51 cait            druthb: that would solve the problem of switching languages - we have a whole bunch of those and we add more and more - but not working well for multiple languages
08:52 cait            opaccredits, opacmain, the header one, the one on the no results page... and so on
08:52 cait            there are also the xml cataloging plugins which are untranslatable now :( and the xml chosen is a bit weird making it hard to be parsed
08:53 druthb          that's my thinking, cait.    I'm hoping to test an approach to that in the next day or two...will take a little longer to fancy up the tool to edit, but if I can get the code working...
08:53 cait            they should have never gone in... in the first place.
08:53 cait            breaking translations like this :(
08:53 rangi           The news selector is broken for dialects
08:53 rangi           You can't select en_nz
08:54 rangi           That needs to be fixed
08:55 rangi           Yeah I think translation manager should be able to veto things that break translations
08:55 cait            I think the problem there was that it was missed
08:55 cait            until too late
08:55 rangi           Like in 3.8.0 how a ton of strings pushed after freeze
08:56 * cait          growls
08:56 rangi           (help files)
09:00 fredericd       help files should be outside. Translating the software is one thing, translating help is another one
09:02 * druthb        concurs, especially if they're not going to be updated until after string freeze.
09:02 rangi           Still need to give translators time to do it
09:03 rangi           And they shouldn't be after the freeze
09:03 rangi           That's my point
09:03 druthb          indeed.
09:03 rangi           If u miss the freeze, u wait for next release
09:04 rangi           Just like other patches do
09:05 cait            I guess the reasoning was missing documentation for new features... but it's just not fair for every other language than enlgish
09:05 rangi           Speaking of which
09:05 rangi           I should email the list
09:05 rangi           String freeze for 3.8.1
09:05 rangi           On 15 May
09:06 fredericd       Two different issues: 1) a release error, 2) a design error (help text in template .po files)
09:07 druthb          fredericd: I agree--it would be useful to kick the help text out of the main .po; it just bloats the file horribly, and there's likely a better way.
09:07 cait            I filed a bug suggesting that
09:07 cait            it would also allow prioritizing gui before help files
09:07 rangi           Still needs to be translated.  And so need to give ppl time to do so
09:09 rangi           That's the trick
09:10 cait            perhaps a communication problem too
09:10 cait            plus everything else
09:10 rangi           :)
09:10 rangi           With my caching rendered html plugin
09:11 rangi           U could cache translated templates
09:11 rangi           That would make serving them fast
09:11 cait            :)
09:12 rangi           Just have language code as part of key
09:13 fredericd       rangi: is there a bug number for that patch?
09:13 rangi           Hmm
09:13 cait            I think it is somewhere
09:13 rangi           @query plugin
09:13 huginn          rangi: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=900 enhancement, P2, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Unimarc Authorities
09:13 huginn          rangi: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1218 enhancement, P2, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , New plugin for MARC21 replacement cost
09:13 huginn          rangi: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=737 enhancement, P2, ---, mjr, NEW , Map of library in search system
09:13 huginn          rangi: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=917 enhancement, P2, ---, paul.poulain, NEW , plugins for coded fields in unimarc authorities
09:14 huginn          rangi: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1817 enhancement, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , pagination links disrupt display on large result sets
09:14 cait            jared talked aobu tit
09:14 cait            bug 7387 ?
09:14 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7387 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, chris, ASSIGNED , Add Template::Toolkit plugin to allow caching of includes
09:14 rangi           Yeah hard to find on my phone
09:14 francharb       hehe
09:14 rangi           That one
09:15 francharb       cait, will you be at the kohacon?
09:15 cait            yep :)
09:15 francharb       cool
09:15 cait            nothing could keep me away
09:15 cait            you too?
09:15 francharb       :)
09:15 francharb       yep
09:15 cait            yay!
09:15 rangi           After kohacon ill have extended to redis as well as memcached and file::cache
09:15 cait            have you figured out who else froom biblibre?
09:16 francharb       cait, I think, Paul Claire, Sophie, Adrien and Alex are coming too...
09:16 cait            oh nice
09:16 cait            no gaetan?
09:16 francharb       nope
09:16 cait            but still, big biblibre group :)
09:17 francharb       yep!
09:17 francharb       :)
09:17 francharb       It's going to be great
09:17 francharb       but, what I wanted to ask you is
09:17 cait            yep?
09:17 rangi           slef: about?
09:17 wahanui         yep.
09:18 francharb       would you be able to show how fix a template when you have a word/words that are not in the po file?
09:18 francharb       i guess it's not that hard
09:18 francharb       and since I want to do more translation, I want also to be able to do patches to correct these glitches
09:20 francharb       cait, you wanted me to be in the "history", I found a way to make it! ;) well, hopefully ;)
09:20 cait            ooh, taht sounds good
09:20 cait            where do I have to sign off? :)
09:20 cait            ah right, should read back first
09:20 cait            can you show me the problem string?
09:20 francharb       hehe
09:21 francharb       for example, on the admin interface, the "more" button
09:21 francharb       which list the modules
09:22 francharb       or, on moremember.pl, there are strings that are not translatable, I can't find them in the po file
09:23 francharb       and it's 100% translated...
09:23 francharb       so my guess is that something missing in the template to tell koha that those strings should be in the po file..;
09:24 cait            hm
09:24 cait            the more button works for me
09:24 cait            or it used to
09:24 cait            I would have to check again in master
09:24 cait            did you try reloading your javascript?
09:24 francharb       how so?
09:24 cait            sometimes that can lead to weird things, like the list button in opac showing up nontranslated
09:24 cait            I think it#s shift f5
09:25 francharb       cait, it doesn't change..
09:26 francharb       but that's no big deal
09:26 francharb       I can check this out later
09:26 cait            normally
09:26 cait            when it's javascript
09:26 cait            it has to be surrounded by _(...)
09:27 francharb       humm
09:27 cait            only wondering because it def used to work :)
09:27 francharb       if it's just things like to correct, I guess I will be able to do it! ;)
09:28 cait            i can't wait to see your first patch :)
09:28 cait            there are some problems in authorities you might want to try to tackle
09:28 cait            there is a list on the wiki
09:29 cait            I worked on some of them in marseille
09:29 cait            http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Yet_not_translatable_string
09:29 francharb       cait, during the hackfest, I wish I could work on this and send my first patch! ;) And It would be great to organize massive tests on circulation rules... It's totally different but totally necessary ;)
09:29 cait            oh yes...
09:29 cait            i think there are some patches in the pipeline to make things better
09:29 francharb       great link!! bookmarked!
09:29 cait            but it#s so hard to test that even fixes get stuck
09:30 francharb       I know!! That's why I want to organize something with a couple of people to share the work and think about how to test, etc.
09:32 cait            so many things to do :(
09:32 francharb       the thing is, we don"t have a chechlist to run when a new feature come, etc... The idea would be to list tests that should be run every time we have a new feature related to circulation rule
09:32 cait            3 days not enough!
09:32 cait            yeah, I think we should have test plans
09:32 cait            on the wiki
09:32 wahanui         it has been said that on the wiki is more information about the packages
09:32 francharb       cait, sure but a small group could be dedicated to this topic
09:33 cait            and perhaps try to automate some of them later on
09:34 francharb       that would be perfect
09:34 francharb       but first thing is to know what we want to check!
09:34 cait            it's perhaps something we could try to do in a online meeting to
09:34 francharb       ;)
09:34 francharb       cait, sure!
09:34 cait            perhaps getting liz involved too
09:34 cait            she knows lots and lots about holds
09:35 francharb       my plan is : talking about it with people interested, do a wiki page, share it, continue the discussion on IRC during an online meeting and then work!
09:36 francharb       cait, if at least we could get organised on this topic during the hackfest, it would the first step to success! ;)
09:37 cait            :)
09:37 cait            I only worry because I already want to do too many things at the hackfest!
09:37 magnuse         good plan!
09:37 cait            including learning new things of course :)
09:37 francharb       oups, I just saw it's 11:36 and my presentation for the training I give tomorrow is not ready...
09:38 francharb       magnuse, will you be at the kohacon too?
09:39 magnuse         francharb: sorry, no. i will be waiting for my firstborn... ;-)
09:40 magnuse         ...and missing you all *a lot*...
09:40 slef            rangi: you still there?
09:40 rangi           Yup
09:41 francharb       magnuse, next time! and congrats! ;)
09:41 rangi           Was wondering what the license for the kohacon logo is
09:41 slef            inherited from the koha logo IIRC so GPLv2+?
09:42 rangi           Sweet
09:43 rangi           So I can put it on a t-shirt if I wanted with no issues
09:43 slef            please do. Let us know how people can buy and let's link it from the website
09:44 rangi           Cool
09:44 cait            :)
09:44 rangi           Just an idea at the mo, but will link it if it becomes reality
09:44 cait            slef: we will have to change the hackfest schedule
09:45 cait            perhaps exchanging the bugsqash and packaging
09:45 cait            so packaging is in the afternoon
09:45 slef            cait: yes. Also there may be an Anti-ACTA march on 9th
09:45 rangi           That'd work
09:45 cait            it woudl free some time for free hacking in the morning
09:49 cait            slef: reason is that liw will not arrive until afternoon
09:55 magnuse         francharb: thanks! and definitely next time!
09:55 francharb       :)
10:03 * druthb        grumbles something about recalcitrant css
10:03 cait            slef: did you see my edits to the wiki? I also sent you a mail with the complete summary?
10:06 slef            cait: yes, thanks. I'll get on with it ASAP.
10:06 slef            it's a big help. Too many balls in the air here just now.
10:07 cait            ok - was not sure you got the mail
10:07 cait            :)
10:10 magnuse         oops in 3.8 just looking at :8080/cgi-bin/koha/admin/categorie.pl gives lots of this in the error log: Illegal date specified (year = 0, month = 0, day = 00) at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/admin/categorie.pl line 200
10:11 cait            we have millions of warns everywhere :(
10:13 magnuse         woohoo! ;-)
10:32 slef            hrm the 9 June march is in Glasgow https://www.facebook.com/events/375858179095979/
10:33 slef            50minutes and £12 away by train
10:53 Amit_Gupta      heya cait
10:53 Amit_Gupta      cait around?
10:56 cait            yes?
11:30 Amit_Gupta      heya jawagner
11:30 jcamins         o/
11:35 jwagner         Hi Amit_Gupta
12:02 chris_n         hi mail
12:03 cait            hi chris_n :)
12:03 chris_n         heya cait
12:05 keisyr          witam wszystkich
12:05 keisyr          hello all
12:05 magnuse         hiya keisyr
12:06 cait            hi keisyr
12:06 keisyr          I prepared demo LiveDVD Koha 3.8 running on Linux Mint
12:07 keisyr          someone come in handy sea
12:08 chris_n         cait: millions of warns.... do you mean in categorie.pl?
12:09 keisyr          http://koha.org.pl/live/
12:11 jcamins         keisyr: nifty!
12:13 keisyr          ;)
12:13 magnuse         chris_n: i think cait meant all over the code
12:14 cait            chris_n: everywhere :( try orderinga book until receive
12:14 cait            or a search in opac
12:14 cait            from advanced search
12:14 cait            or or or
12:16 chris_n         cait: I think there is a bug for removing extraneous warns
12:16 cait            I know
12:16 cait            I filed it
12:17 cait            I started in opac - but have to redo some of it I think
12:18 cait            I mean some of the patches need to be redone
12:18 cait            :(
12:20 * chris_n       pokes bug 7877
12:20 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7877 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , note on expiration in the opac worded wrongish
12:20 chris_n         opps
12:20 * chris_n       pokes bug 7977
12:20 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7977 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, cnighswonger, Needs Signoff , Add a "Quote-of-the-day" feature to the OPAC homepage
12:20 chris_n         ^^ ready for sign-off :-)
12:20 cait            :)
12:20 chris_n         nengard should like me... I wrote help files for it
12:21 nengard         WOO HOO :)
12:21 nengard         You're awesome
12:21 nengard         chris_n++
12:21 chris_n         nengard: feel free to correct the manual references once it makes it into master
12:22 chris_n         I wasn't sure what they would be, so I just made-up a url :-)
12:33 cait            bug 737
12:33 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=737 enhancement, P2, ---, mjr, NEW , Map of library in search system
12:35 cait            hi oleonard
12:35 cait            :)
12:35 oleonard        Hi
12:40 magnuse         was someone asking about GBSD yesterday?
12:41 magnuse         oleonard?
12:41 wahanui         hmmm... oleonard is still here, if you just wish hard enough. or Koha's master UI designer
12:41 oleonard        Yes, I did.
12:41 magnuse         you want one?
12:42 oleonard        What I want is something to happen to shake up the long queue of pending patches
12:42 magnuse         i sort of forgot about them - it got hard trying to rack up some enthusiasm. sort of
12:42 magnuse         yeah!
12:42 magnuse         any ideas?
12:42 wahanui         any ideas are welcome :)
12:42 oleonard        ...but I don't know that GBSD would help get signoffs
12:43 magnuse         a little bit of brainstorming is in order, i thinl
12:43 magnuse         s/thinl/think/
12:43 oleonard        I wonder if we need the developers of some patches to help guide testing?
12:43 oleonard        I just know that a lot of patches I wouldn't know where to begin to test
12:43 magnuse         might be a good idea
12:44 magnuse         the fudge idea is interesting
12:44 * chris_n       will exchange fudge for signoffs and qa on 7977 :-)
12:45 chris_n         hmmm.... hope that's not equivalent to a bribe... :-)
12:45 magnuse         i would pledge some kind of reward/bounty if we for example set a goal of "whoever does the most signoffs in the next month"
12:45 magnuse         or something
12:45 cait            hm a month is long
12:45 cait            it's really not easy
12:46 chris_n         maybe weekly or by-weekly
12:46 magnuse         could be norwegian chocolate, "trollhunter" on dvd or similar
12:46 cait            one idea I had was a script
12:46 chris_n         bi even
12:46 cait            that nags about an old bug
12:46 cait            each day
12:46 magnuse         yeah, one or two weeks might be better
12:46 cait            until someone fixes or closes it
12:46 magnuse         im just thinking aloud here
12:46 magnuse         where should the nagging go? to the devel-list?
12:46 chris_n         maybe a "bounty-per-bug" where the author/sponsor puts up some bounty?
12:47 chris_n         so each bug nets something?
12:47 magnuse         ooh :-)
12:47 cait            not sure I get the idea
12:48 magnuse         chris_n could promise to send a small package of fudge to whoever signs off on bug 7977 for example
12:48 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7977 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, cnighswonger, Needs Signoff , Add a "Quote-of-the-day" feature to the OPAC homepage
12:48 chris_n         cait: each bug would have some "reward" etc attached to it by the assignee
12:48 chris_n         exactly
12:48 cait            hm
12:48 cait            we want people to do good testing..I am not sure it#s the right signal
12:48 magnuse         or a gift card to kiva or a bear at the next kohacon or...
12:49 magnuse         yeah, cait has a point
12:49 chris_n         well, all QA, etc rules would still apply
12:49 cait            a bear?
12:49 * cait          wants a kiwi!
12:49 francharb       cait, could you help me to understand this?
12:49 magnuse         yeah, your choice between grizzly and polar bear!
12:49 chris_n         so whats the diff then if I hire, say, catalyst to handle the sign-off, etc?
12:49 francharb       I did a transfer from library A to library B
12:49 chris_n         or by-water, or... <your-vendor-goes-here>
12:49 cait            not much of a diff, but I don#t think that has happened
12:49 jcamins         Did no one ever notice that koha-remove was broken?
12:50 francharb       then I logged in library B
12:50 chris_n         I think it has...
12:50 cait            I mean people paying for sign-offs
12:50 francharb       did a check in
12:50 francharb       and koha ask me to transfer again the item to library A
12:50 francharb       so...
12:50 magnuse         chris_n: i have been pondering that too - we sort of want "independent" signoffs i think, so it@s tricky
12:50 chris_n         jcamins: we're discussion fudge at the moment :-)
12:51 francharb       how do I accept the transfer from library B ?
12:51 magnuse         (thanks for breaking my keyboard ubuntu 12.04...)
12:51 chris_n         magnuse: I agree, and have argued that in the past
12:51 magnuse         jcamins: how is it broken?
12:52 cait            francharb: not sure really - not much experience dealing with multiple branches
12:52 jcamins         magnuse: it tries to use "--" as the instance name in certain situations.
12:52 cait            francharb: have you checked the transfer rules?
12:52 francharb       ok cait!
12:52 francharb       yep
12:52 magnuse         jcamins: yeah, i was messing about with that the other day, there is a bug for it
12:52 jcamins         You're probably wondering "how did you never notice this before, given that you create and remove instances on a regular basis?"
12:52 cait            hm, and all system preferences related? I think some might be new
12:52 francharb       i can transfert everything, everywhere
12:52 jcamins         magnuse: oh, there is?
12:52 jcamins         I'll put my patch up.
12:52 cait            but it doesn#t accept the transfer?
12:52 jcamins         Unless you already patched it.
12:53 cait            wants to transfer it back?
12:53 magnuse         i think maybe i did
12:53 francharb       but I guess it's cause by the homeorholdingbranchretunr syspref
12:53 francharb       but i'm not dealing with a patron checkout
12:53 francharb       just a transfert
12:53 jcamins         Ah, bug 7924.
12:53 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7924 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Needs Signoff , Fix handling of command line arguments in koha-remove
12:53 chris_n         magnuse, cait: ultimately it really comes down to the integrity of the one signing off or qa'ing or....
12:53 cait            magnuse, oleonard: perhaps we need to set some goals? and have... gamification... badges?
12:54 francharb       so i don"t know if HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn is used in this case...
12:54 jcamins         Interestingly, the script works on my package development machine, but not my release maintenance machine.
12:54 chris_n         even a "most signed off" acknowledgement could result in poor sign-offs for the sake of competition
12:54 cait            I mean independent from the assignee
12:54 cait            or we could have a module of the month
12:54 cait            and try to clean out bugs related to that
12:54 magnuse         jcamins: yeah, that@s the one i was thinking about
12:54 jcamins         magnuse: there's a bug in your fix.
12:54 jcamins         Can I fix the fix while signing off?
12:54 jcamins         You're missing quotes around $args
12:54 jcamins         Oh, no, you have eval.
12:54 jcamins         That's okay, then.
12:55 jcamins         Sorry.
12:55 jcamins         There are two ways to fix it. :)
12:55 magnuse         jcamins: i basically copied how its done in koha-create, i *think*
12:56 magnuse         chris_n, cait: maybe make it "signoffs that are not rejected by qa/rm"?
12:56 jcamins         magnuse: koha-create hedges its bets by using both options.
12:56 magnuse         chris_n, cait: but that makes tracking it that much harderm of course...
12:57 magnuse         jcamins: ah
12:57 jcamins         What are we talking about?
12:57 cait            not sure :)
12:57 magnuse         jcamins: how to encourage more signoffs
12:57 chris_n         cait, magnuse: I think that using the voting mechanism of bz and establishing some sort of priority based on that might be another way to encourage sign-offs and qa
12:57 jcamins         magnuse: ah.
12:57 chris_n         any time there is any sort of incentive involved, there will be the risk of poor work
12:57 magnuse         yup
12:58 cait            yeah :(
12:58 chris_n         so its a balancing act
12:58 cait            it always is
12:58 cait            and we need more devs to sign-off
12:58 chris_n         if we provide incentives, we have to also be sure to add checks
12:58 cait            the sandboxes are nice
12:58 cait            but there is a lot you can't do with them
12:58 chris_n         so magnuse ides of "not rejected" is one such check
12:58 chris_n         idea, even :-)
12:59 magnuse         :-)
12:59 magnuse         the sandboxes could perhaps be promoted more
12:59 magnuse         and some way to separate patches/bugs that will work in the sandboxes would be nice too
13:00 chris_n         perhaps any incentive could be limited to "bug is pushed to branch foo"
13:00 chris_n         that would add the checks of QA and RM
13:00 cait            yes
13:00 cait            I suggested using a keyword
13:00 cait            you could mark what can be tested in a sandbox with it
13:00 cait            and we can create a list
13:00 cait            and promote the list
13:00 magnuse         excellent idea!
13:00 chris_n         cait++
13:00 cait            so it would be less frustrating
13:00 magnuse         is it possible to do that in bz?
13:00 cait            for someone who is limited to the sandboxe
13:00 cait            s
13:00 magnuse         yup!
13:01 chris_n         it still will probably require a carrot of some sort to encourage participation
13:02 cait            I liked the idea to add sign-offers to the release notes
13:02 * chris_n       is not advocating any policy which would degrade the quality of code --for the record
13:02 cait            testers
13:02 francharb       anybody knows if the way transfert works changed lately?
13:02 francharb       it doen's seem to work the same way than before...
13:02 magnuse         well, speaking for myself, i dont really need much of a carot, its more a question of finding the time
13:02 chris_n         francharb: check the release notes?
13:02 * jcamins       doesn't look carrots. Parsnips, on the other hand...
13:02 francharb       chris_n, good point!
13:02 cait            francharb: I think it does use the branchtransfer table for returns now - paul wrote something to fix that
13:02 chris_n         magnuse: this is just the problem... time == $$$ :-)
13:03 magnuse         chris_n: yup!
13:03 cait            yeah I think what we can do is:
13:03 chris_n         even if the community had paid release positions, etc. the issue would exist
13:03 cait            make it as easy as possible - like creating a list for the sandboxes
13:03 francharb       setting up circulation is just a p... in the a...
13:03 magnuse         nengard++ for signing off on things while we talk ;-)
13:03 jcamins         Yeah, I'd love to have more time to sign off on things.
13:03 cait            francharb: correct. :(
13:03 nengard         was i signing off on things you were talking about?
13:04 cait            we were talking about the process :)
13:04 cait            and how to make more people do it
13:04 gmcharlt        good morning
13:04 cait            hi gmcharlt :)
13:04 chris_n         heya gmcharlt
13:04 wahanui         gmcharlt is an expert in all things library technology.
13:04 magnuse         kia ora gmcharlt!
13:04 chris_n         do you have an opinion on the subject under discussion, gmcharlt?
13:05 cait            http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/describekeywords.cgi
13:06 * jcamins       will sign off on bug 7924, though.
13:06 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7924 major, P1 - high, ---, magnus, Needs Signoff , Fix handling of command line arguments in koha-remove
13:06 magnuse         yay!
13:06 magnuse         jcamins++
13:06 chris_n         jcamins++
13:06 jcamins         I'm in the process of testing it now.
13:07 chris_n         cait: we could probably setup a similar one for sandbox-able patches
13:07 magnuse         cait: huh, clicking on "Search" for "regression" gives 0 hits?
13:07 francharb       nengard, hi! do you know why i cant check in an item that i just transfered without getting koha asking me to transfert  the item back?
13:07 nengard         um ?.
13:08 nengard         sounds like a bug to me ? but i'd have to test further
13:08 francharb       I'm trying to change my set up but still, I always get this message...
13:08 cait            chris_n: that was the idea :) not sure how to set up keywords in bugzilla?
13:08 francharb       annoying, especially just before a training! :)
13:09 magnuse         for me, the stats that rangi does for signoffs are excellent incentives - i really wanna rank high in those lists. perhaps they could be published on http://koha-community.org/ - to give even more status?
13:09 cait            yeah, that's a nice idea too
13:09 cait            ok so far we have:
13:09 cait            idea: use a keyword to mark sandbox testable patche
13:09 cait            s
13:09 cait            idea: put testers in release notes
13:09 magnuse         +1
13:09 cait            idea: put sign-off stats on kc-org
13:10 magnuse         should we add these to the agenda of the next irc meeting?
13:10 magnuse         get the blessing of the community and ask for more ideas?
13:10 chris_n         idea: offer a very disinterested "bounty" such as fudge
13:10 cait            I will be travelling I think so not sure I can attend :(
13:10 cait            but yes
13:11 jcamins         chris_n: postage gets pricey.
13:11 jcamins         Heck, making that much fudge gets pricey.
13:11 cait            idea: set up a fudge fund ;)
13:11 chris_n         jcamins: how bad do you want someone to look at your bug?
13:11 jcamins         chris_n: there are 117 bugs set to Needs Signoff.
13:12 magnuse         looks like "Keywords" are just a free text field? http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4867
13:12 huginn          04Bug 4867: major, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, cnighswonger, RESOLVED FIXED, cannot clone subfields in marc editor, other clone/unclone weirdness
13:12 chris_n         with hourly rates avg $75-$100 range, I'd say fudge is cheap
13:12 chris_n         magnuse: true
13:13 chris_n         I think their usefulness is limited
13:13 chris_n         but may do what cait suggests
13:13 jcamins         chris_n: oh, are you proposing having the submitter sponsor the fudge?
13:13 cait            ah
13:13 magnuse         yeah, if we just agree on a keyword it should work
13:13 cait            another idea
13:13 jcamins         I thought by "disinterested" you meant the fudge should come from someone else.
13:13 cait            maybe we could do bug hunts
13:13 chris_n         jcamins: yes or the assignee, whichever is more appropriate
13:13 jcamins         Ah.
13:13 cait            like: try to shake out all bugs in module x
13:13 francharb       nengard, could you just tell if I always need to check the item in when it arrives at the other library (the library I'm transfering to) ?
13:13 chris_n         jcamins: no, just not something like a pound of gold
13:13 cait            and document tests on the wiki and look at the bugs for thatmodule
13:14 cait            so we could clean up bugzilla and get some serious testing done + get some written test plans
13:14 nengard         francharb yes, i thought you always had to check in items when they were transferred
13:14 chris_n         something which would require some motivation to do well on the part of the signer-offer
13:14 jcamins         chris_n: that makes sense, then.
13:14 nengard         but there is a sys pref that might be effecting that
13:14 cait            that we could try to automate later on (me looks at francharb)
13:14 magnuse         cait: sounds cool
13:14 nengard         francharb what do you have AutomaticItemReturn set to?
13:14 francharb       nengard, maybe "AutomaticItemReturn"...
13:14 jcamins         chris_n: I would even offer to do weekly fudge fests.
13:14 nengard         jinx :)
13:15 nengard         I have that set to Don't
13:15 nengard         I always recommend those I train to leave it to Don't
13:15 francharb       nengard, that what I was about to test!
13:15 francharb       thank you for the advice!
13:15 francharb       I'm going to test it this way
13:16 magnuse         cait: but will we find the time to actually do it?
13:17 cait            I think we need a way
13:17 * chris_n       thinks that getting bugs signed off/qa'd faster is a serious concern
13:17 cait            where a person can spend like 10 minutes on it
13:17 cait            and still help moving it forward a bit
13:17 cait            so just write up a test you did on the wiki... wouldn't take that long
13:18 cait            or review a bug for that module and mark it reviewed/confirmed/retested
13:18 cait            so... if someone is in a situation to be stuck somewhere for like 20 minutes... he could check out the current bug hunt page
13:18 * chris_n       can say after being rmaint for several years, that if things are going to be done for "free" then the one doing them just has to make it happen
13:19 chris_n         short of that, it won't happen
13:19 cait            you always have to make time
13:19 cait            that's true
13:19 cait            and you have to want to make time...
13:19 magnuse         yeah...
13:19 cait            I coudl try to set a page up for a bug hunt
13:19 cait            experiment
13:19 chris_n         its the "want to" part that is the problem, imho
13:19 cait            what would be a good one to start with?
13:19 cait            i think a lot of people want... what I don' like is the
13:20 cait            'i don't get paid for that'
13:20 magnuse         cait++ for setting up a bug hunt experiment!
13:20 cait            because noone is going to sponsor to work on an old bug.. but you have to factor it in somehow
13:20 chris_n         I don't think that most consciously think "I'm not going to get paid, so I won't do that," but I think the practicality of life often forces that decision unconsciously
13:21 cait            yeah perhaps
13:21 cait            yeah, think you are true, that was a bit hard
13:21 chris_n         bug hunt sounds like a good start
13:21 cait            so any ideas about a module?
13:21 cait            and you are right.. my english is broken again
13:22 cait            http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/describecomponents.cgi
13:22 chris_n         ie. rmaint "paid" me nothing tangible and often "cost" me tangibly (ie. time away from family, etc)
13:22 jcamins         Certainly that's the case for me. I would like to see all bugs fixed, but I only have so much time, and given a choice between getting paid for it and not getting paid for it, the former almost always wins.
13:22 chris_n         no complaints, just a few facts to hopefully help
13:22 cait            and I apologize :)
13:22 chris_n         no need to :-)
13:23 cait            yeah, but I feel like I have to
13:23 chris_n         it was a conscious choice :-)
13:23 cait            it's not like I think htat about people here. it's only we have to find ways to get rid of the bugs... *sigh*
13:23 francharb       hehe : I did a transfer from Library A to B, I'm in library B checkin the item in and koha says : "This item needs to be transferred to library B. Transfer now?"
13:23 cait            francharb: was it in transfer before you checked it in?
13:23 cait            I mean did the status show in transfer to.. ?
13:23 francharb       cait, yes
13:23 cait            hm
13:24 francharb       in the end,
13:24 cait            we could start with patrons maybe
13:24 cait            ?
13:24 francharb       automaticreturn helps me to only get the message (do you want to transfert back the item)
13:24 cait            it#s not a too big module to test
13:24 cait            and it has 163 bugs in bugzilla
13:24 chris_n         cait, magnuse: gotta run, but I think there are some good ideas on the table; they should be put on the next meeting agenda
13:25 francharb       but i changed the homeorholdingbranchreturn and I get the message "do you want to transfer the item in your own library?"
13:25 francharb       :)
13:25 francharb       I need to test further!
13:26 magnuse         cait: just do it! ;-)
13:26 jcamins         The other problem with signing off on things... a lot of people hate failing things, so certain patches get passed over because "gee, it doesn't seem very nice to mark it failed QA."
13:26 magnuse         have fun chris_n!
13:26 cait            jcamins: I got over that... but It hink you are right
13:26 magnuse         jcamins: knows the feeling... but tries to suppress it
13:26 cait            it's always feeling mean
13:26 cait            I try to comensate by explaiinign well why
13:27 jcamins         There is a large swath of bugs set to "needs signoff" that I'm not responding to because I haven't gotten over that feeling yet.
13:27 cait            perhaps they need some discussion then?
13:28 cait            like you could ask... I don't like that about the bug... is that enough to fail it?
13:28 cait            but not easy too
13:38 magnuse         i have tried to add our thoughts to http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_13_June_2012 - please feel free to add and delete stuff!
13:44 oleonard        Thanks magnuse
13:48 magnuse         are the criteria for when a bug/patch can be tested with the sandboxes written down somewhere?
13:48 magnuse         is it just that no command line action can be involved?
14:00 jcamins         I think the script may be able to test package installation now, too. :)
14:05 magnuse         jcamins: which script?
14:06 jcamins         magnuse: my super duper release testing megascript.
14:06 cait            back
14:07 jcamins         Once it works I'll send it (and all the supporting scripts) to chris_n for inclusion in the release-tools repo.
14:07 cait            magnuse: not totally sure
14:08 cait            I think it can do database updates?
14:08 cait            or can*t?
14:09 magnuse         jcamins: supercool!
14:09 magnuse         cait: from reading http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Sandboxes i think it can do databaseupdates
14:10 jcamins         Oh, yeah. I also need to test updatedatabase.
14:10 jcamins         Bah, humbug.
14:10 jcamins         I still haven't figured out how to do the updatedatabase testing.
14:11 magnuse         time for walkies - have fun #koha!
14:15 jcamins         Okay, didn't quite work.
14:15 druthb          oleonard++
14:20 druthb          So far, I've had very useful help from cait and oleonard and jcamins and fredericd and julian_m on this Arabic project.  Thanks for your help, all!
14:22 * oleonard      is happy that rtl support is being improved, and happy for druthb that she is on a cool trip
14:24 francharb       back
14:25 * jcamins       feels the same.
14:25 cait            :)
14:25 * jcamins       runs his release test script again.
14:25 jcamins         You know, when I started out, the entire script took about twenty minutes to run.
14:25 jcamins         That is not the case anymore.
14:25 jcamins         Of course, I do do six complete installations, so perhaps that's no surprise.
14:26 druthb          It's after 5 here...I'm headed out for the evening.  be well, everyone.
14:39 * wizzyrea      wave
14:40 oleonard        Hi wizzyrea I had trouble testing Bug 7998
14:40 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7998 critical, P5 - low, ---, wizzyrea, In Discussion , 3.8 UI cleanup, tweaks to new styles
14:41 wizzyrea        the 2nd part, I bet so
14:41 wizzyrea        I think I messed it up
14:41 wizzyrea        the patch I mean
14:41 wizzyrea        not the changes
14:41 wizzyrea        I will probably have to redo it
14:41 pastebot        "jcamins" at pasted "Package test results" (24 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/387
14:41 jcamins         ^^ super cool!
14:42 wizzyrea        wowie
14:43 cait            jcamins++
14:43 cait            :)
14:43 cait            amazing!
14:44 wizzyrea        what were the problems you saw oleonard
14:44 oleonard        wizzyrea: I wanted to test again because of the input field border problems we talked about the other day. I didn't know if the second patch addressed that
14:45 oleonard        But the second patch didn't apply
14:45 jcamins         Now I'm running the entire test script.
14:48 wizzyrea        ah
14:50 wizzyrea        well, let me attach a patch that should have everything in it - but I don't know if it will work
14:51 wizzyrea        dumb of me to do it in 2 patches.
14:51 wizzyrea        oleonard: can i send it to you directly, and if it works then I'll attach it?
14:52 oleonard        Sure
14:52 wizzyrea        cool, thx
14:53 wizzyrea        ugh. perhaps not.
14:58 wizzyrea        ok, I think I got it right. I hope
14:58 * cait          cheers wizzyrea and oleonard on :)
14:58 cait            I am sure you 2 will make it work :)
14:59 * wizzyrea      is unsure of the git fu in play here
14:59 jcamins         wizzyrea: you can use rebase -i and then change the second patch to "squash" instead of "pick."
14:59 wizzyrea        that's what I did.
14:59 jcamins         :)
15:00 wizzyrea        I applied both, resolved the conflicts, then rebased them and squashed them together
15:00 wizzyrea        we'll see I guess
15:00 jcamins         Installing UNIMARC.
15:00 jcamins         From the package.
15:00 cait            :)
15:05 jcamins         Installing MARC21 from the tarball.
15:05 oleonard        wizzyrea: Got the patch, but Gmail said it was a phishing attempt so I threw it away and hid under my desk.
15:05 wizzyrea        O.o
15:05 wizzyrea        well it's attached to the bug anyway
15:05 * wizzyrea      threw caution to the wind
15:06 wizzyrea        yea, it's probably mad because the server that the patch is coming from isn't gmail
15:06 wizzyrea        but it's got a from address of gmail.
15:12 jcamins         WOOHOO!!!
15:13 pastebot        "jcamins" at pasted "It works!" (56 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/388
15:16 jcamins         chris_n: I sent you patches for the release-tools repo.
15:16 jcamins         If you have a chance to push them, that'd be awesome.
15:25 wizzyrea        jcamins++
15:26 jcamins         wizzyrea: is that not profoundly awesome?
15:29 francharb       pffff
15:29 cait            did you figure it out?
15:29 francharb       I just discovered the floating collection feature...
15:29 francharb       and all I can say is "pfffffffffffff"
15:29 jcamins         @later tell sekjal http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/imdb2marc.pl
15:29 huginn          jcamins: The operation succeeded.
15:29 cait            is that a good or bad pfff?
15:29 francharb       Is HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn still in use?
15:30 cait            no idea
15:30 francharb       cait, the feature sounds interesting but the way circulation works, to me, it's a mess to understand, so adding more complexity is not what I need right now... ;)
15:31 francharb       wizzyrea, hi!
15:31 cait            makes sense
15:32 francharb       can i ask you a question about the floating collection feature and the way it's related to homeorholdingbranchreturn syspref?
15:32 cait            I proably don't have an answer :(
15:32 cait            ah wizzyrea - taht's a good idea :)
15:32 francharb       ;)
15:32 * cait          goes back to cleaning the windows
15:32 francharb       or anyone who knows!
15:33 francharb       Actually, what is the difference between the "default return policy" in the smart-rules.pl page and the HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn syspref?
15:34 wizzyrea        sekjal, if he's around, might know
15:35 wizzyrea        francharb: I'm not sure I know
15:35 wizzyrea        it's a brand new feature
15:35 francharb       wizzyrea, I will ask him later then. I was asking you because you said in buzilla "On upgrade, the value of HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn is used to populate the global default (which is
15:35 francharb       stored in default_circ_rules.returnbranch)."
15:36 francharb       and I didn't know what you meant by "global default"...
15:36 wizzyrea        ah, what I probably meant
15:36 wizzyrea        is that if you have homeorholdingbranchreturn set a particular way
15:37 wizzyrea        that will be the default, and the smart rules override that
15:37 wizzyrea        if that's what you desire.
15:37 wizzyrea        is that making sense?
15:37 wizzyrea        for example
15:37 francharb       sounds good to me
15:37 wizzyrea        ok then i'll not bother with an example lol.
15:38 wizzyrea        (unless you want me to)
15:38 wizzyrea        (or feel it's necessary to your understanding)
15:39 francharb       so, it's like the default default value is set up by what we have in this syspref BUT, if I use this new feature, It's override by what we have on the smart rules page...
15:40 francharb       hummm
15:42 wizzyrea        right
15:42 wizzyrea        for particular item types or collection codes or whatever the mechanism is.
15:43 francharb       wizzyrea, I re-read your comment on bugzilla and you said "The use of HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn is removed in AddReturn to instead use this subroutine."
15:43 francharb       it makes sense
15:43 wizzyrea        hehe, which bug, now I want to know what i said.
15:44 francharb       why we have this default value on the smart rule page
15:44 francharb       http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7144#c17
15:44 huginn          04Bug 7144: enhancement, P1 - high, ---, srdjan, Pushed to Master , Floating collection
15:44 wizzyrea        i've slept since then.
15:44 francharb       the comment I was reading
15:44 francharb       ;)
15:44 wizzyrea        OH, ha
15:44 wizzyrea        all of that stuff
15:44 wizzyrea        was written by sekjal
15:44 wizzyrea        in his commit message
15:44 wizzyrea        that was just my sign off :)
15:45 francharb       ahah
15:45 francharb       ok
15:45 wizzyrea        my comments come after my sign off ;)
15:46 wizzyrea        but I believe we are both reading this right - HoHBR sets the default value for everything
15:46 francharb       I guess too
15:46 wizzyrea        then smart rules define branch return on per branch/itype limits.
15:47 francharb       oh god... It's complicated
15:47 francharb       :)
15:47 wizzyrea        well
15:47 wizzyrea        @quote get 123
15:47 huginn          wizzyrea: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
15:47 wizzyrea        ^^
15:47 francharb       hehe
15:47 wizzyrea        somebody wanted it :)
15:48 wizzyrea        @quote add francharb: oh god… it's complicated
15:48 huginn          wizzyrea: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
15:48 wizzyrea        boo
15:48 chris_n         jcamins: were there 2 patches?
15:48 * chris_n       only received one
15:48 jcamins         chris_n: there were.
15:48 wizzyrea        @quote add francharb: oh god… it's complicated
15:48 huginn          wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.  Quote #203 added.
15:48 jcamins         Which one did you receive?
15:48 wizzyrea        @quote random
15:48 huginn          wizzyrea: Quote #163: "<oleonard> One nice thing about the real Koha is you don't have to call someone to get it." (added by wizzyrea at 08:05 PM, November 10, 2011)
15:48 chris_n         2/2
15:48 jcamins         I'll try again with 1/2.
15:48 jcamins         One moment.
15:49 francharb       the thing is, I was trying to test basic transfers between two libraries and I had weird message... It might be related to this new feature...
15:49 jcamins         Okay, did that work?
15:49 * francharb     is adding something else to check out later on his todo list
15:49 jcamins         No it did not.
15:50 francharb       jcamins, are you talking to yourself?
15:50 francharb       ;)
15:50 jcamins         chris_n: okay, I think it worked now.
15:50 wizzyrea        francharb: what message?
15:50 wahanui         i heard message was a warning not an error.
15:50 chris_n         got it
15:51 * wizzyrea      is keenly interested in wonkiness with transfers/holds in 3.8
15:52 francharb       at the end, I was logged in my library to receive the transfer from another one and koha asked my if I wanted to transfer the item I checking in in my own library...
15:53 wizzyrea        so you had a transfer from library A to library B, and when checked in at Library B it prompted you to return it to library A instead of receiving it?
15:53 wizzyrea        now this is not to fill a hold, just a transfer?
15:53 francharb       (I was testing HOHBR set up with 'the library the item was checked out from"
15:53 francharb       wizzyrea, at the begining, I had what you describes
15:53 francharb       then, I changed the HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn
15:54 francharb       and koha asked me to tranfer to library B
15:54 francharb       but I was already in library B
15:54 francharb       I was logged in library B
15:54 wizzyrea        hm that is interesting.
15:54 francharb       :)
15:55 wizzyrea        what do you see from a select * from branch transfers where item number = theitemnumber
15:55 wizzyrea        branchtransfers*
15:55 wizzyrea        it might be instructive.
15:55 francharb       wizzyrea, right now, I can't work more on this part, I have to finish up my presentations for my training tomorrow
15:55 francharb       but
15:56 francharb       i keep this in mind
15:56 wizzyrea        was the item already in transit when you flipped the syspref?
15:56 francharb       and when I will retest this (I will check the sql too)
15:56 wizzyrea        or was it a whole new test
15:56 wizzyrea        well anyway
15:56 wizzyrea        those are things to keep in mind when testing
15:56 francharb       wizzyrea, I'm not sure but I tried each time to do a whole new test
15:57 wizzyrea        k, that's probably best. :)
16:04 chris_n         hi wizzyrea
16:08 * wizzyrea      waves
16:08 wizzyrea        heya
16:12 * wizzyrea      is an email answering machine today
16:12 chris_n         lol
16:13 wizzyrea        also, I actually *have* email to answer today, which is somewhat of a change in the normal thing.
16:18 jcamins         When should 3.6.x enter string freeze?
16:18 cait            hm perhaps give a week for translators ?
16:18 jcamins         cait: actually, the question is "how much warning do I have to give the rest of the community?"
16:19 chris_n         jcamins: I gave at least 1wk to translation
16:19 chris_n         so now if you like :-)
16:19 jcamins         If I'd been organized, I would've announced last week that 3.6.x was entering string freeze tomorrow, but I wasn't.
16:20 cait            why does the community need to be warned?
16:20 chris_n         organized?
16:20 jcamins         cait: I don't know, someone might care?
16:21 jcamins         So what I'm hearing is "you can put 3.6.5 in string freeze Thursday if you want, sure, why not."
16:21 chris_n         jcamins: since the bulk of the changes are cherry-picked from master, it really is not that much of an issue
16:21 * chris_n       had very few maint branch specific fixes during his tenure
16:22 chris_n         and very, very little direct concerns with those branches as such
16:22 chris_n         fwiw
16:23 jcamins         Okay, 16:00UTC on May 10.
16:24 pastebot        "jcamins" at pasted "String freeze announcement - is it coherent?" (1 line) at http://paste.koha-community.org/389
16:25 jcamins         cait: chris_n: thoughts?
16:25 cait            reading :)
16:25 chris_n         sounds fine
16:25 cait            yep
16:25 chris_n         just add some \n to it
16:26 chris_n         :)
16:27 jcamins         chris_n: yeah, my e-mail client wraps text.
16:27 * chris_n       breaks out the fresh strawberry cake
16:28 jcamins         I'll be releasing 3.6.5 on May 24, not 23. Oh well.
16:29 * oleonard      destroys his desk in rage
16:29 * oleonard      shakes his fist at jcamins
16:29 jcamins         lol
16:29 jcamins         Time to head into the city.
16:42 chris_n         jcamins_away: http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=release-tools.git;a=summary
16:53 chris_n         @later tell jcamins you may want to include the translation list in the future on your release related notices; I forwarded this one on
16:53 huginn          chris_n: The operation succeeded.
16:54 Brooke          o/
16:54 chris_n         \o
16:54 cait            h Brooke
16:55 Brooke          wie geht's
16:56 cait            gut :)
16:58 Brooke          staff intranet pictures++
17:07 Brooke          gaetan++
17:09 francharb       ok! I need a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
17:10 francharb       0/ Brooke
17:10 francharb       ;)
17:10 * Brooke        hugs francharb
17:10 * francharb_afk hugs Brooke
17:10 Brooke          hey sekjal
17:10 sekjal          hi, Brooke
17:11 francharb_afk   Brooke, I still have what I want to send you on my desk. The good thing is that I think of you. The bad thing is that you don't have it.... I mean yet! ;^)
17:11 francharb_afk   it's banana bread time!
17:11 francharb_afk   see you all
17:12 cait            :)
17:15 chris_n         banana bread is spectacular
17:16 Brooke          when it is good, it's good.
17:16 Brooke          I had an excellent Banana Cupcake a couple weeks back
17:43 jcamins_away    chris_n: thanks. I shall be sure to including the translation list in the future.
18:28 oleonard        Unauthorized bot? Interesting.
18:44 chris_n         good work chanserv
18:44 chris_n         or whoever
18:57 * chris_n       collides with wizzyrea
18:58 wizzyrea        !
18:58 wizzyrea        uhoh
19:00 chris_n         bz collision :-)
19:02 wizzyrea        hehe I hope not too disastrous
19:03 chris_n         no, bz is good at handling those sorts of things :)
19:03 cait            mid-air collision!
19:03 * chris_n       takes a moment to pick up all of the cookies he dropped
19:03 chris_n         before the little bugs get them
19:03 wizzyrea        I just attached an omnibus of the css changes
19:03 wizzyrea        so if anybody wants to have a look pver it
19:03 wizzyrea        over*
19:04 wizzyrea        gaetan I hope is at home.
19:04 oleonard        Hm... members/member-picupload.pl seems to be an orphan
19:07 cait            oh
19:07 cait            poor thing
19:07 * wizzyrea      rattles the tin cup "mistah can ya spare a dime?"
19:08 cait            oleonard: I have another suspect : subject.tt
19:08 cait            we should do something for them
19:08 jcamins_away    BTW, if anyone is interested, my release test scripts are now in the release-tools repo, thanks to chris_n.
19:08 cait            :)
19:08 jcamins_away    Forgot to mention that earlier.
19:08 cait            jcamins++
19:09 oleonard        Poor subject.tt has been dragged aimlessly through so many upgrades
19:09 magnus_afk      jcamins++ chris_n++
19:09 cait            what did it use to do?
19:10 cait            I found it when doing the classes and then again when translating
19:10 cait            it's following me around
19:10 cait            I think it wants a home
19:10 oleonard        It was a specialized subject heading browse thing
19:10 oleonard        But pre-MARC
19:10 cait            oh
19:10 cait            ah
19:10 cait            sad
19:11 cait            probably not possible to breath new life into it then?
19:11 cait            jcamins_away: are you interested in adopting?
19:11 * oleonard      covers the poor dear's little ears
19:11 cait            lol
19:11 jcamins_away    wizzyrea: if you look at httprecorder.pl, that's the script needed to generate WWW::Mechanize scripts based on your browsing.
19:11 cait            jcamins_away: could we make you do some online tutorial sometime? :)
19:11 cait            like guiding me trhough a simple one?
19:12 jcamins_away    cait: If I'm able to rewrite the subject browser, I will do so. :)
19:12 cait            (not nw... but in 2 weeks after accounting?)
19:12 jcamins_away    cait: yes, that's on my to-do list.
19:12 jcamins_away    Speaking of accounting, you should be working on accounting right now!
19:12 cait            yes... sir
19:12 jcamins_away    oleonard: wizzyrea: order cait to go work on accounting. She's ignoring me.
19:13 McCloud         Hello, anyone have a minute for a Newbie type question?
19:13 wizzyrea        ms. cait - they tell me you have accounting to work on
19:13 wizzyrea        we always have minutes for those :)
19:13 cait            yes....
19:13 cait            but it's so boring
19:13 wizzyrea        well
19:13 wizzyrea        pretend you're covering something up for a zillionaire banker
19:13 wizzyrea        that will make it exciting.
19:13 jcamins_away    Hehe.
19:13 cait            lol
19:13 cait            I will try :)
19:15 * oleonard      is with cait. Accounting is boring!
19:15 McCloud         ok great, I'll be back when I have a bit more time, thanks guys and gals!
19:15 * chris_n       promptly drowns in bug 7284
19:15 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7284 major, P3, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Master , Authority matching algorithm improvements
19:16 jcamins_away    chris_n: it's already pushed to master, and it will be in 3.6.5.
19:16 oleonard        McCloud: If you had asked your question already we could already be answering it
19:16 jcamins_away    Great chatting.
19:16 * wizzyrea      substitutes "more time" for "more of a priority"
19:17 wizzyrea        seriously that was odd.
19:17 * chris_n       wonders what all that was about
19:17 wizzyrea        maybe his office was on fire.
19:17 chris_n         lol
19:17 oleonard        It's like the time I went to the DMV and waiting in line for two hours so I could ask the clerk if I could come back later and get a driver's license.
19:17 cait            lol
19:18 cait            perhaps a mystery shopper?
19:18 cait            or how do you call those who pretend to test service?
19:18 chris_n         oleonard: did the clerk let you?
19:18 chris_n         cait: right
19:18 jcamins_away    cait: mystery shopper is the right term.
19:18 cait            yay :)
19:18 * cait          is now quite impressed with her own vocabulary :P
19:18 oleonard        It was someone's boss. We all failed the test because we were goofing off.
19:18 cait            i am on vacation :)
19:18 wizzyrea        noooo!
19:19 jcamins_away    chris_n: why are you in bug 7284?
19:19 * wizzyrea      does not consider making cait do her homework goofing off
19:19 cait            oh right... the accounting thing
19:20 wizzyrea        as if I could actually *make* cait do her homework
19:20 cait            you all do a good job
19:20 cait            really
19:20 cait            I need someone pushing me to it
19:20 cait            and if you could continue that for the next 2 weeks...
19:20 chris_n         jcamins_away: just followup from my MARC research :)
19:20 cait            I will kick... complain... be grumpy... and in the end there will be cookies for all of you
19:21 rangi           Morning
19:21 jcamins_away    chris_n: ah, yes. Good stuff, that.
19:22 chris_n         glub.... glub.... ;-)
19:22 jcamins_away    Oh, come now.
19:22 jcamins_away    Contrast that to Search.pm.
19:22 oleonard        Hi rangi
19:22 chris_n         it gets easier now
19:23 jcamins_away    Morning, rangi.
19:23 cait            morning rangi
19:23 wizzyrea        mornin rangi
19:24 rangi           Happy birthday melia
19:25 jcamins_away    Happy birthday, Melia!
19:25 cait            happy birthday melia :)
19:26 magnus_afk      happy birthday melia_lunch!
19:27 JesseM          Just wondering if there is anyone working on adding a permission to not allow someone to override fines?
19:28 melia_lunch     thanks :)
19:28 jcamins_away    JesseM: turn off the various override sysprefs?
19:28 rangi           I ate ur chocolate from Pauline melia
19:29 JesseM          does that turn it off completely?
19:29 jcamins_away    It should, yes.
19:29 cait            there are different fine rleated permissions
19:29 jcamins_away    I think.
19:29 cait            but it's possible I think
19:29 JesseM          I was thinking of doing it as a per staff basis
19:30 JesseM          so adding a permission
19:31 jcamins_away    Ah.
19:31 jcamins_away    I don't think anyone is working on that.
19:31 JesseM          does that make sense? so restricting a staff member or a volunteer to override fines
19:31 JesseM          thx Jared
19:31 jcamins_away    Except you should always put things in a positive sense.
19:32 jcamins_away    So it's a permission that allows staff members *to* override fines.
19:32 rangi           Yeah off by default
19:32 cait            JesseM: I think tht makes lots of sense - we have one for renewals
19:32 jcamins_away    Automatically set it for everyone who has circ permissions, and there won't be any change in functionality, but then libraries can easily disallow individual members of staff from doing it
19:32 cait            JesseM: so having the others in a similar way would make sense to me
19:33 jcamins_away    rangi: no, on by default, since right now anyone can override.
19:33 rangi           No off for all new ppl
19:33 jcamins_away    rangi: oh, got it.
19:33 jcamins_away    Yes.
19:33 jcamins_away    On for existing, off by default.
19:33 rangi           Otherwise any new borrower can override
19:33 cait            I think it would be - since all permissions are off on default when you create a patron
19:34 rangi           Thats why positive not negative permission cait
19:34 cait            now I am confused :)
19:34 JesseM          :)
19:34 cait            but I am sure it will turn out allright
19:35 rangi           If negative off=on
19:35 jcamins_away    cait: rangi was agreeing with me. :)
19:35 cait            that's not surprising
19:35 JesseM          So a new patron needs to be granted permission to override a fine. Under the circulation flag.
19:36 JesseM          I think
19:36 cait            and he can do it, when he has all permissions for the module, but can't if he is missing the permission, right
19:36 cait            ?
19:59 rangi           Brb
20:05 * rangi         stopped at a cafe for a flat white and pan au chocolat
20:06 rangi           Before meetings
20:11 rangi           Hi Kathryn
20:12 kathryn         morning rangi : )
20:12 * cait          waves
20:12 kathryn         and morning all !
20:12 * kathryn       waves back
20:14 kathryn         cait do you like figs?
20:14 cait            yes :)
20:15 kathryn         : ) I was given about 8 pounds of nearly ripe figs recently, so some are looking beatiful in jars of sugar syrup, and other are kinda turned in into jam
20:16 cait            oh! yum!
20:16 kathryn         am quite excited about using them : )
20:16 kathryn         using = eating
20:16 cait            heh
20:17 cait            I bought some raspberries today
20:17 cait            first this year
20:17 rangi           U dude's should set up a koha and catalogue recipes
20:17 cait            I bet marc has fields for that
20:17 rangi           Probably fixed length
20:17 rangi           And not metric
20:17 kathryn         mnnnnnn
20:19 cait            we could always use 5xx
20:19 cait            245... for the title...
20:19 rangi           We should use semantikoha
20:19 rangi           Then get nice links going
20:19 kathryn         images essential, and reviews.....star ratings...
20:19 cait            for all the ingredients?
20:19 rangi           Yep
20:19 cait            you could do a combines search for the ingredients
20:20 jcamins_away    Hm. But how do you make it useful?
20:20 kathryn         honestly!
20:20 cait            heh
20:20 cait            so who is going to host it? :)
20:20 rangi           We can
20:20 kathryn         :)
20:21 cait            perhaps we can get some of jo's recipes too
20:21 jcamins_away    We still have a problem with ingedients and amounts.
20:21 cait            yum
20:22 kathryn         and wizzyrea
20:22 wahanui         I LIKE SCIENCE
20:22 cait            jcamins_away: we are koha developers... is there something we can't solve?
20:22 rangi           Oh yeah we can catalogue jos blog to start
20:22 jcamins_away    cait: no, but we have to figure out how to solve it before doing so.
20:22 * cait          can offer a fennel salad recipe
20:22 cait            oh
20:22 cait            hm
20:22 rangi           Wolfram alpha
20:22 cait            can't we have some mashup with... something else to just recalculate the cups into a sane measurement unit?
20:23 cait            yep
20:23 rangi           Use its API
20:23 cait            wolfram alpha does work nicely for things like that
20:23 rangi           To translate
20:23 jcamins_away    Oh, no, the problem I meant was how to store them.
20:23 kathryn         my recipes often don't have amounts...is there an api for handfuls and dollops?
20:23 jcamins_away    The solution to differing measuring systems is easy: we all use grams for measurements.
20:23 cait            kathryn: i have the same problem... i am more an experimental cook
20:23 cait            and if something turns out yummy... I often have no idea how to make it happen again
20:24 cait            well not exactly
20:24 wizzyrea        cat's fennel salad is a huge hit in our house
20:24 cait            :)
20:24 rangi           Cats love my cooking too
20:24 kathryn         rangi at least you didn't say dogs, cats are fussy : )
20:25 cait            heh
20:25 rangi           My cat eats tinsel
20:25 rangi           Not that fussy
20:25 kathryn         hehe
20:25 jcamins_away    I suppose one could use 505$t $g
20:25 cait            lol
20:26 jcamins_away    It'd require some refinements to the XSLTs.
20:26 jcamins_away    And possibly indexing changes.
20:27 rangi           With DOM
20:27 rangi           :)
20:27 jcamins_away    Yes, definitely would require DOM.
20:28 cait            of course
20:28 cait            can only work with dom
20:28 jcamins_away    And local cover images.
20:28 cait            which brings me back to
20:28 cait            we really need a unimarc test database
20:28 jcamins_away    That'd be nice.
20:28 cait            I have asked for one so many times :(
20:28 cait            I mean bilbiographic data and some authorities would work for me
20:29 rangi           Yeah local cover images would work great
20:29 * kathryn       looks up DOM
20:30 rangi           Would be a good demo site
20:30 jcamins_away    Maybe I should just sign off on fredericd's UNIMARC patch on the strength that GRS-1 continues to work.
20:30 cait            document object model :)
20:30 jcamins_away    rangi: it would indeed.
20:30 cait            I think
20:30 jcamins_away    rangi: flip you for it?
20:30 wizzyrea        wait what are we talking about
20:30 kathryn         jcamins_away is talking about pancakes
20:30 jcamins_away    wizzyrea: this is #koha. What else?
20:30 cait            wizzyrea: a koha installation to store our recipes :)
20:30 rangi           Heh you can have it, ill just link to it :)
20:30 jcamins_away    Cookies!
20:30 wahanui         Cookies are delicious delicacies
20:30 wizzyrea        LOL
20:31 jcamins_away    rangi: fair enough.
20:31 * wizzyrea      suspects that kohl is not the tool for that
20:31 * wizzyrea      curses lion's autocorrect
20:31 jcamins_away    wizzyrea: OH YEAH?!?
20:31 rangi           Wanna bet
20:31 wizzyrea        you know I'm cursing a lot at my mac recently.
20:31 kathryn         wizzyrea can do a proof of concept to prove us wrong?
20:32 cait            wizzyrea: get a real os?
20:32 cait            :P
20:32 * wizzyrea      has one on her laptop
20:32 rangi           It's your soul battling for freedom
20:32 cait            wizzyrea: you know that kohl is cabbage?
20:32 wizzyrea        it is!
20:32 cait            was not that far off
20:33 * sekjal        <3's rotkohl
20:33 rangi           Sekjal my man
20:33 cait            I am not so much a kohl person
20:33 cait            brokkoli... perhaps
20:33 cait            rotkohl, yes
20:33 rangi           Script to get marc from asin
20:33 cait            but cauliflower is eew
20:34 rangi           How far did ya get?
20:34 * wizzyrea      teaches her mac how to properly spell koha.
20:34 wizzyrea        stupid mac.
20:34 sekjal          rangi:  got it conceptualized, and as far as needing to write the XSLT from Amazon XML to MARCXML
20:34 rangi           Ahh
20:34 jcamins_away    rangi: http://chopac.org/cgi-bin/tools/az2marc.pl
20:34 jcamins_away    Just remembered that.
20:34 rangi           Thanks!
20:35 cait            wizzyrea: well.. had to teach my phone too... and it runs linux
20:35 jcamins_away    No idea if it's open source.
20:35 sekjal          jcamins:  it's not
20:35 sekjal          not sure what the usage restrictions are, if any
20:35 jcamins_away    sekjal: eww. Well, so much for that idea.
20:36 jcamins_away    S/he should release it as open source.
20:36 sekjal          agreed
20:36 jcamins_away    Any idea why s/he won't?
20:37 sekjal          haven't spoken to her/him
20:38 sekjal          rangi:  I've got a proto-type amazon searching script, but it's currently hard-coded to my associate tag.
20:38 sekjal          depends on Net::Amazon... which I'm not that thrilled with
20:40 jcamins_away    Okay, that's it for me. I'm heading home now.
20:40 cait            to make cookies?
20:40 cait            and why did you people start to talk about this recipe koha?
20:40 cait            now I still have not started with accounting!
20:40 jcamins_away    Just a reminder, if anyone wants to make a plea for including more patches more recent than May 14 in 3.6.5, you need to make a cogent argument to me in the next day and a half.
20:41 jcamins_away    cait: no, probably to cherry-pick into 3.6.x.
20:41 jcamins_away    While you're doing your accounting homework. :P
20:41 jcamins_away    Bye.
20:41 cait            mmh cherries.
20:42 kathryn         I'll take my autumn fruits this week cait : )
20:43 kathryn         hi melia
20:43 cait            :)
20:43 melia           hey kathryn
20:43 sekjal          rangi:  there is supposed to be a way to pass Amazon an XSLT style directly, letting their servers handle it, but it's giving me a Forbidden error whenever I try... that's my current sticking point
20:45 sekjal          was also wondering if it'd be better to create a Z39.50 wrapper for Amazon, so it can be added as a source for Koha more naturally
20:45 sekjal          happy birthday, melia
20:48 melia           thanks sekjal :)
20:48 rangi           Ok meeting time
20:48 wahanui         meeting time is always going to favour one section of the globe
20:48 sekjal          best wishes to you all for the rest of your day/evening.... time to go get some groceries before Avengers tonight
20:48 sekjal          cheers, #koha
20:48 wizzyrea        say hi to iron man for me
20:49 rangi           And laptop cleared at customs
20:49 wizzyrea        whoot!
20:49 * sekjal        hates liking Iron Man.... since he's about as anti-open source as a super hero gets
20:49 wizzyrea        it's true
20:49 sekjal          but Robert Downey Jr. plays such a good jerk
20:49 wizzyrea        *nod*
20:50 wizzyrea        oh he's got a creamy center.
20:50 wizzyrea        or something.
20:50 sekjal          something
21:39 jcamins         o/
21:41 jcamins         Does anyone know how to find out when a patch was committed, as opposed to when it was written?
21:43 jcamins         --pretty=fuller
21:47 jcamins         Okay... how do I cherry pick most of a branch?
21:48 jcamins         Oh. git cherry-pick A..B
21:50 wizzyrea        wow, that's screwed up
21:50 wizzyrea        I have a single patron who has 8 holds
21:50 wizzyrea        she is last priority on every single one
21:51 wizzyrea        her holds will not move up the list
21:51 wizzyrea        even though she should be
21:51 wizzyrea        any thoughts on why this might happen?
21:51 jcamins         wizzyrea: no thoughts, but you've had this happen before.
21:51 wizzyrea        the fix for that is not working here
21:51 wizzyrea        that was a case of someone had pinned the hold to the bottom of the list
21:51 wizzyrea        not so this time
21:52 wizzyrea        this is every hold, and none of them are pinned
21:52 wizzyrea        every hold for this patron
21:52 jcamins         Hm.
21:52 jcamins         Weird.
21:53 jcamins         Well, at least I was right that you had a similar problem at some point.
21:53 wizzyrea        :)
21:53 wizzyrea        yep
21:53 wizzyrea        I thought of that, actually.
21:53 wizzyrea        I thought that was the problem
21:53 jcamins         Well.
21:53 jcamins         You know what time it is?
21:53 wizzyrea        time to go home?
21:53 wizzyrea        time for kittens?
21:53 jcamins         No, I'm at home.
21:54 jcamins         Time to test 3.6.5!
21:54 wizzyrea        time for booze?
21:54 wizzyrea        so, time for booze AND THEN testing.
21:54 jcamins         lol
21:55 wizzyrea        well i'm flummoxed. maybe the answer will come to me in a dream.
21:55 jcamins         Let's hope!
21:56 gmcharlt        time for kittens drinking booze?
21:56 gmcharlt        wait ...
21:56 jcamins         gmcharlt: we gave Myshkin some cat grass yesterday.
21:56 jcamins         It's much the same effect.
21:56 gmcharlt        close enough
21:56 jcamins         He is presently guarding it.
21:59 jcamins         gmcharlt: Myshkin extends feline greetings to your owners, and suggests that they are overly generous with allowing you to pay attention to things not themselves.
22:00 gmcharlt        jcamins: I go to the office so as to not have cats sitting in front of my monitor ;)
22:00 jcamins         Myshkin has dictated that leaving the apartment is not permitted.
22:01 jcamins         Almost every day one of us breaks the rules. He doesn't understand it.
22:02 cait            heh
22:03 jcamins         3.6.5 passes all the unit tests.
22:03 cait            yay
22:04 gmcharlt        jcamins: yes, they never seem to make the connection between the servants leaving them and the kibble showing up later
22:27 rangi           back
22:29 jcamins         The proposed 3.6.5 builds and installs cleanly.
22:29 cait            yay
22:34 * rangi         steals 3.6.5's thunder
22:35 rangi           mainly cos if i do 3.8.1 after it will run into kohacon .. i tried doing a release while at the access conference, its a bit insane :)
22:36 jcamins         Quite understandable.
22:38 kathryn         yeah rangi I can't believe you did that - I didn't understand at the time how mental that was
22:38 rangi           if i wasnt mental, we'd never have done koha in the first place, an ils in 3 months ... lucky hlt are mental too
22:38 cait            lol
22:39 kathryn         hehe
22:39 jcamins         Okay... why can't I get get_bugs to work?
22:40 cait            i would say because we squashed all of them
22:40 cait            but .... i know better
22:40 jcamins         Hehe.
22:42 jcamins         It has something to do with connecting to Bugzilla.
22:43 rangi           jcamins: any reason why i couldnt add 690 to the Headings::Marc21 ? if i wanted the linker to link them too?
22:43 rangi           (to topic term in this case)
22:43 jcamins         rangi: no reason.
22:43 rangi           sweet thanks
22:43 jcamins         If you look at UNIMARC, there's a proposal for linking it to the frameworks.
22:44 rangi           ahh
22:44 jcamins         In the spirit of kaizen, I decided to keep the existing functionality for MARC21.
22:45 jcamins         Since there was no existing Headings::Unimarc, fredericd had more leeway.
22:50 jcamins         Oh, there's way.
22:50 jcamins         The order of fields changed.
22:50 jcamins         *why
22:51 jcamins         ... and the field I want vanished entirely.
22:56 jcamins         Fixed it.
23:11 jcamins         What else needs to go in the release notes?
23:11 jcamins         I guess we need a list of new sysprefs.
23:13 jcamins         So I guess I have to parse the INSERT bit to figure out the order of fields.
23:16 * jcamins       decides to be lazy and uses SQL::Statement::Structure.
23:35 rangi           :)
23:41 jcamins         Okay, I was really expecting this to work a little better.
23:41 jcamins         It won't parse my completely valid SQL.
23:42 jcamins         Okay, plan B.
23:43 jcamins         Wacky regular expression time!
23:44 libsysguy       w00t i managed to kick my other computer out lol
23:45 jcamins         Yay!
23:45 libsysguy       i was afraid I'd be libsysguy1 all night lol
23:50 jcamins         Ugh. This doesn't work:
23:50 jcamins         $variable =~ s/'"`//g;
23:50 jcamins         Escaping the quotation marks doesn't help.
23:52 libsysguy       hmm
23:52 jcamins         I switched it to tr.
23:52 libsysguy       is that a strange backtick?
23:52 jcamins         Because that's faster.
23:52 jcamins         Didn't help.
23:52 jcamins         You think?
23:52 jcamins         I guess it could be.
23:52 libsysguy       i just didn't know if it was just me
23:52 rangi           try \ it
23:53 jcamins         No luck.
23:53 libsysguy       what is the expression you are trying to match?
23:53 rangi           well, you want those 3 chars?
23:53 rangi           in that precise order?
23:54 rangi           or do you want any one of them?
23:54 jcamins         Any of them.
23:54 jcamins         Right.
23:54 jcamins         []
23:54 rangi           ahh yes and |
23:54 * jcamins       sighs
23:54 libsysguy       yeah |
23:54 jcamins         Yeah, that works perfectly.
23:54 libsysguy       sweet!