Time Nick Message
00:07 ronald Hello #koha
00:08 rangi hi ronald
00:09 ronald hiya rangi :)
00:15 * mtj waves to ronald :)
00:17 ronald ronald waves back to mtj : )
01:26 mtj hi #koha, ive a question about setting up memcache with Koha
01:27 mtj could anyone point me to some recent doco re: memcache setup?
01:29 bag memcached?
01:29 wahanui memcached is probably running, but I dunno it Koha uses it.
01:29 bag memcache?
01:29 bag sorry mtj I don't know of any documentation
01:30 bag I usually just apt-get and then stop and restart it ;)
01:31 mtj so, update the memcached bit in your koha-conf.xml file...
01:31 mtj ... and add some new $ENV variable in apache too?
01:37 mtj hmm, any example for these 2 variables in koha-conf.xml ?
01:37 mtj <memcached_servers></memcached_servers>
01:38 mtj <memcached_namespace></memcached_namespace>
01:38 mtj i think ill go with ..
01:39 mtj <memcached_servers>127.0.0.1:1121</memcached_servers>
01:39 libsysguy if the bugs list is the QA contact for a bug…what does that mean
01:39 mtj <memcached_namespace>koha</memcached_namespace>
01:39 libsysguy mtj is that for something old?
01:40 libsysguy I thought that config got moved into koha-http.conf
01:40 mtj the qa contact is some email addy, always
01:40 * libsysguy is sorry to butt in
01:40 libsysguy bug 5339
01:40 wahanui bug 5339 is looking for a second sign off :)
01:40 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5339 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Signed Off , Parcel closing in acq
01:41 libsysguy wahanui forget bug 5339
01:41 wahanui libsysguy: I forgot bug 5339
01:46 mtj hmm, looks like the apache ENV stuff for memcache is happening for 3.8
01:46 libsysguy yeah thats what it is…sorry im running master and just set it up the other day
01:47 mtj 6193
01:47 mtj but the bugs status incorrectly says 'Status: Pushed to Stable' ?
01:47 libsysguy bug 6193
01:47 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6193 enhancement, P3, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to Stable , Use memcached cache koha-conf.xml configuration variables
01:47 rangi http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6677942/Dolphins-spotted-in-Wellingtons-Island-Bay
01:48 mtj 'Version: rel_3_8'
01:48 rangi yeah its in ENV variables now
01:48 rangi check C4/Context
01:48 * libsysguy thinks that rangi is really the physical form of bugzilla
01:49 mtj # Check if there are memcached servers set
01:50 mtj 83 $servers = $ENV{'MEMCACHED_SERVERS'};
01:50 rangi yup :)
01:51 libsysguy random question…if you wanted to change a timestamp that was update on change…how would you go about that?
01:51 rangi SetEnv MEMCACHED_SERVERS "127.0.0.1:11211"
01:51 rangi SetEnv MEMCACHED_NAMESPACE "KOHA"
01:51 rangi like that in your conf
01:51 rangi it has the sideffect
01:51 rangi you can run memcached for just the opac if you wanted
01:51 mtj merci
01:51 rangi or even
01:51 rangi using <Location>
01:52 rangi blocks .. part of the opac/staff side
01:52 rangi since if the env variable is not set, it wont use memcached, .. i havent test that at all, but it should work
01:53 mtj aah yeah, nice :)
01:55 rangi libsysguy: update should do it, i think if you explicity update it it will stick
01:55 mtj ooh, its working sweet!
01:56 rangi switch on sessions
01:56 rangi in sysprefs
01:56 rangi makes the db work a lot less
01:56 * mtj watches the memcached.log...
01:57 libsysguy thanks rangi, will try
02:47 Space_Librarian o/
02:48 rangi hiya Space_Librarian
02:48 Space_Librarian hey.
02:50 Space_Librarian rangi, our articles framework... would it be possible to submit it to be included in a future version of Koha for other special libraries to use and tweak?
02:51 rangi yes :)
02:51 rangi 2 ways to do it
02:52 rangi one would be to make a wiki page, like the sql reports and upload and link the file there
02:53 rangi http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/MARC_frameworks
02:53 rangi or you could make a patch and put it in the sample data
02:54 rangi it might be nicer/easier to have a page on the wiki
02:54 * Space_Librarian ponders this...
02:54 rangi and we could link to the page on the frameworks page, like we do for the sql reports
02:54 rangi will make it easy for others to add frameworks too
02:54 * Space_Librarian nods
02:55 * Space_Librarian exports framework to sql
02:55 Space_Librarian or should I try something else?
02:56 Space_Librarian Argh. Editing wiki pages is evil
02:57 rangi i think sql is the best option
03:03 Space_Librarian This is one very, very long sql file. What should I be bracketing it with? Or should I just put it on the wiki and somebody could help me clean it up...?
03:03 rangi id just load it as a file, not cut and paste it in
03:04 eythian Oh hey, oocalc will open the XML format nicely too
03:04 rangi Space_Librarian: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Special:Upload
03:04 rangi once you upload it, you can just put a link to it on that other page
03:04 rangi does that make sense?
03:07 Space_Librarian perfectly. It just won't let me upload a .txt file
03:07 rangi can you rename it to .sql
03:07 rangi >
03:07 rangi ? even
03:08 Space_Librarian I've renamed it to .sql - "Permitted file types: png, gif, jpg, jpeg, odt, pdf, csv, mrc"
03:08 rangi ahh
03:08 rangi how annoying
03:09 Space_Librarian yup
03:09 rangi ill ask gmcharlt to allow .sql too
03:09 Space_Librarian cool
03:09 Space_Librarian Once that's done, I'll add it
03:10 rangi sweet
03:14 gmcharlt Space_Librarian: give it a try now
03:14 rangi gmcharlt++
03:21 Space_Librarian gmcharlt++
03:21 * Space_Librarian links stuff through now
03:22 rangi sweeet
03:25 Space_Librarian Boom. http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/MARC_frameworks
03:26 Space_Librarian How's that?
03:32 rangi I like it!
03:36 Space_Librarian I must just go through and take a couple of our pre-pops out...
03:36 Space_Librarian (whoops)
03:39 Space_Librarian done. All clean and ready to roll.
03:40 rangi sweet
03:44 eythian Space_Librarian: what is 'WAC'?
03:45 Space_Librarian Wellington Accountants. I've cleaned it out of the file I've just uploaded to the wiki.
03:58 Amit_Gupta heya bag
04:20 bag heya Amit_Gupta
04:31 rangi Space_Librarian: https://twitter.com/#!/nengard/status/186671213635059714 famous already
04:31 Space_Librarian :D
04:32 Space_Librarian Milton and I are stoked.
04:32 Space_Librarian I could actually put our coursework paper framework up too...
04:33 rangi cant hurt :)
04:33 Space_Librarian I wonder if that would be used
04:49 Oak kia ora #koha
05:12 Amit_Gupta can we reorder marc subfield while creating marc record
05:13 Amit_Gupta heya cait
05:13 Space_Librarian Amit_Gupta we do
05:13 Space_Librarian the little arrows next to the subfields can be moved up and down.
05:14 cait I don't think you can change the order in the frameworks
05:14 cait but what Space_Librarian said :)
05:15 Space_Librarian So within a marc field, we have b, a, c as an order, for example
05:19 Amit_Gupta Heya Space_librarian
05:19 wahanui rumour has it Space_librarian is a Koha poet or the sweetest lil lady you'll ever know
05:20 Amit_Gupta in item tag 952
05:20 Amit_Gupta i want to reorder subfield
05:20 Amit_Gupta while exporting
05:20 eythian why?
05:21 Space_Librarian what eythian said.
05:23 Space_Librarian the only time we change subfields is in 260, we put b before a... but why in 952?
05:29 cait Space_Librarian: I think the order in 952 is not optimal always - I had libraries asking about that
05:30 cait for entering the data
05:30 Space_Librarian It's hidden in our default.
05:30 cait 952?
05:30 wahanui 952 is probably the field used for items in Koha. See http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Holdings_data_fields_%289xx%29
05:30 * Space_Librarian goes to look for 952
05:31 cait you can hide fields you don't use
05:31 cait but not change the order
05:31 cait Amit_Gupta: it will not work afaik - no reordering
05:31 Space_Librarian We do most of that in the item editing, rather than the marc record
05:31 Space_Librarian that's probably why
05:34 Amit_Gupta ok
05:35 Space_Librarian Right. time to sign off for the evening. Toodle pip, and I'll see ya'll tomorrow. :)
05:55 cait morning alex_a
05:57 alex_a morning cait
06:10 kmkale Why gullible?
06:12 cait ask Brooke
06:13 kmkale Aahh
06:37 reiveune hello
06:37 wahanui que tal, reiveune
06:38 marcelr hi koha
06:49 magnuse kia ora #koha
06:49 marcelr hi magnuse
06:50 magnuse hiya marcelr
06:54 magnuse hiya julian_m
06:54 julian_m hello magnuse
06:54 magnuse cait++ for signing off on 7850
06:56 magnuse bonjour paul_p
06:57 paul_p good morning magnuse & all
06:57 magnuse @wunder boo
06:57 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -4.0°C (8:50 AM CEST on April 02, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: -8.0°C. Windchill: -9.0°C. Pressure: 29.44 in 997 hPa (Rising).
06:57 magnuse @wunder marseille
06:57 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 14.0°C (8:30 AM CEST on April 02, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
06:57 magnuse heh
06:59 paul_p lol: adrien just said : "-4°C in norway, and +14 in Marseille... and he stays in Bodo ... when you don't know that's understandable, but when you know..."
06:59 magnuse lol!
07:00 magnuse i know, i must be stupid or crazy :-)
07:00 magnuse or both...
07:01 magnuse @wunder oslo, norway
07:01 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Holter, Holter, Norway is 0.9°C (8:59 AM CEST on April 02, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 29%. Dew Point: -16.0°C. Windchill: -2.0°C. Pressure: 29.53 in 1000 hPa (Steady).
07:02 magnuse we have been talking about moving further south, so let's see what happens...
07:07 francharb hello #koha
07:08 clrh bonjour
07:08 paul_p FSF announced GPL V4 yesterday :D :D
07:08 clrh oups hello
07:20 * magnuse wanders over to fsf.org, but can't see anything ;-)
07:31 rangi evening
07:54 hdl1 Amit_Gupta:
07:56 rangi hdl1: i tried to read a story from Petites Histoires du Pere Castor to Kahu tonight
07:56 rangi my pronounciation was probably really really bad
07:57 kf rangi: bet not worse than mine :)
07:58 rangi maybe i will bring it to kohacon and record french speakers reading it :)
08:02 asaurat père Castoooor :D
08:04 clrh jcamins_away: hello sorry for the gdoc, I think it is better now
08:07 kf hi asaurat and clrh :)
08:08 * magnuse waves
08:08 asaurat hi! :)
08:08 magnuse so how many days do people get off from work this week?
08:08 * rangi wonders if the whole of biblibre will come to scotland
08:09 rangi just one this week
08:09 rangi and one next week for me
08:09 rangi (friday and monday)
08:09 magnuse ah
08:09 magnuse in norway the norm is half of wednesday off + thursday + friday + monday
08:10 * kf moves to norway
08:10 magnuse unless you are self-employed, of course
08:11 magnuse good thing about easter: no holidays that get eaten by weekends!
08:13 rangi ywp
08:13 rangi yep
08:13 rangi we get the 25th off too
08:13 rangi anzac day
08:13 magnuse ah
08:14 magnuse we miss out on that one, sadly...
08:15 magnuse i had a play with Devel::Cover the other day, but i'm not sure it tells us anything we don't know yet? http://div.libriotech.no/kohamisc/coverage/
08:15 rangi ahh you need to get your army slaughtered by a british generals incompetence to get that holiday
08:15 * magnuse should dig deeper into jenkins
08:16 rangi magnuse: yeah jenkins runs devel::cover
08:16 rangi well, since i told it to it does
08:16 rangi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anzac_Day#Gallipoli_campaign
08:16 magnuse rangi: ah, guess we'll pass on the 25th then...
08:17 * magnuse knows that from a pogues song
08:18 magnuse "And the band played Waltzing Mathilda" - probably not a pogues original
08:18 magnuse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_the_Band_Played_Waltzing_Matilda
08:19 rangi ah yep
08:21 rangi the somme was actually worse for NZ
08:21 rangi http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/battle-of-the-somme/new-zealands-somme-experience
08:23 rangi and then Passchendale even worse
08:23 magnuse :-(
08:28 rangi https://twitter.com/#!/mrkrazycab/status/186729862030045184/photo/1
08:43 pastebot "magnuse" at 109.189.7.19 pasted "here's the full error" (8 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/328
08:45 rangi yep
08:45 rangi theres a fix for that
08:45 rangi sitting in passed qa
08:45 rangi (its the blocker one there)
08:46 rangi bug 7821
08:46 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7821 blocker, P5 - low, ---, dpavlin, Passed QA , XSLT systempreference multi-language support
08:48 magnuse rangi: cool, thanks
08:48 magnuse always nice when things are already fixed :-)
08:49 magnuse ultrasound-time!
08:49 rangi :)
09:33 paul_p magnus_away i'm on the way to push the fix for bug 7821
09:33 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7821 blocker, P5 - low, ---, dpavlin, Passed QA , XSLT systempreference multi-language support
09:36 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 7821 - fix C4::Templates::_current_language <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=574f46fb19a933a6ef25d32423785cafc378213c>
09:43 rangi paul_p: want to know why you need the ()
09:43 rangi C4::Templates is not an exporter
09:43 rangi its base class is Class::Accessor
09:44 rangi its an object, you shouldnt be calling functions in it, they are methods and should be accessed via the object
09:46 paul_p rangi but why is it working well when you display, for example, detail.pl ?
09:47 rangi because detail.pl doesnt use XSLT
09:47 * slef cranks up patches2bugs
09:48 rangi the real way to call it would be $template->_current_language .. but even that is wrong the _ denotes its an internal function, shouldnt be called outside C4::Templates
09:49 jenkins_koha Starting build #691 for job Koha_master (previous build: UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #689 3 days 11 hr ago)
09:49 rangi the object has accessors
09:50 rangi if you want to know the lang
09:50 rangi $template->lang();
09:50 paul_p (why do you say detail.pl doesn't use XSLT ? -> line 88)
09:51 paul_p rangi so we should make a followup and use ->lang() instead of the internal sub ?
09:51 rangi it doesnt call it
09:52 rangi the xslt file doesnt exist for details ..
09:52 rangi we should check the accessor has the right value, then kill that internal sub
09:53 rangi it came across from C4::Output .. and its the last thing that isnt OO about it, be good to get rid of it
09:53 rangi but not urgent
09:53 rangi this will stop the 47 tests failing :)
09:57 rangi &foo; # foo() get current args, like foo(@_) !!
09:58 rangi foo;# like foo() IFF sub foo predeclared, else "foo"
09:58 rangi (thats why it fails, because it's not predeclared by EXPORTER)
09:59 kf wow
09:59 * kf needs to resume her perl reading
10:00 kf slef: should we put a note for call for papers on the kc.org start page? so it ends up in rss feeds?
10:00 rangi and then it would be different again with AUTOLOAD
10:00 rangi as always with perl, lots of ways to do it :)
10:02 slef kf: yes. Does http://koha-community.org/kohacon12-call-for-papers-opened/ not work?
10:02 kf ah, that's from the calendar?
10:03 kf slef: sorry, I missed that!
10:07 slef kf: I don't know if it's in the feed
10:07 kf me neither
10:07 kf it is
10:08 kf slef: so all good
10:19 rangi asaurat: you found the cause of that error eh? bug 7786
10:19 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7786 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Master , Adding More Lists to the Add-to combo of staff search results
10:22 asaurat rangi: do you mean bug 7868 ?
10:22 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7868 minor, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, ASSIGNED , Warnings in logs for search.pl
10:22 asaurat for this one I've found something, yes
10:23 rangi yep, bug 7786 caused it
10:23 asaurat oh ok
10:24 asaurat indeed
10:24 rangi hmm do you think a talk at the hackfest about Template::Toolkit might be good?
10:24 asaurat we have to check if addbarshelvesloop.size is defined
10:24 kf yep
10:25 kf yep for the TT talk
10:26 asaurat might be useful, yep
10:26 rangi i could talk about writing plugins, and how its essentially perl, so it does things like warnings
10:26 kf :)
10:27 rangi i guess i should go submit that
10:28 kf rangi++ :)
10:32 rangi i hope paul_p talks about the sandboxes
10:34 kmkale I hope there is more about solr
10:34 kf asaurat++ for fixing bugs!
10:34 rangi we should do battledecks :)
10:36 kmkale Rangi do you know of a way to search over a range of barcodes in zebra? Barcodes are alphanumeric.
10:36 marcelr asaurat?
10:36 wahanui asaurat is probably 161
10:36 asaurat :D
10:37 jenkins_koha Yippie, build fixed!
10:37 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #691: FIXED in 47 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/691/
10:37 marcelr asaurat: are you fixing 7786 error?
10:37 jenkins_koha dpavlin: Bug 7821 - fix C4::Templates::_current_language
10:37 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7821 blocker, P5 - low, ---, dpavlin, Pushed to Master , XSLT systempreference multi-language support
10:37 rangi kmkale: i think you would need an index on them and then do a > and < type search
10:37 rangi have never tried tho
10:38 rangi because i can do it easier in sql
10:38 asaurat marcelr: yes, just added a tiny check
10:38 marcelr ok should i sign off?
10:38 marcelr followup on 7786?
10:38 asaurat no I had already created a new bug, didn't know about this 7786
10:39 asaurat bug 7868
10:39 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7868 minor, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, Needs Signoff , Warnings in logs for search.pl
10:39 marcelr ok i look there
10:39 marcelr change the name?
10:39 wahanui marcelr: that doesn't look right
10:39 kmkale rangi tried bc, ge and bc, le didn't work.
10:39 asaurat and it needs sign off, yes =)
10:40 rangi asaurat: what i do, is git blame to find the commit then that commit message has the bug number
10:40 rangi when i remember to do that :)
10:41 marcelr asaurat: we should do this too in opac template?
10:41 asaurat oh yes, I don't use this often, can be useful
10:42 asaurat marcelr: didn't notice this behaviour in OPAC, no
10:42 marcelr ok will look at it
10:50 marcelr asaurat: could you check my amendment; do you agree?
10:51 marcelr asaurat: if there are no private shelves, there can be more than 10 public shelves
11:31 marcelr asaurat?
11:31 wahanui rumour has it asaurat is 161
11:48 slef mailed Draft sponsorship requests to kohacon12volunteers
11:49 cait-m test
12:15 oleonard I like April 1 falling on a Sunday.
12:17 kf :)
12:17 kf hey owen :)
12:18 oleonard Hi
12:18 slef oleonard: yeah. Much less annoying. I just spent the day mostly offline.
12:18 oleonard kf++ # for bug-wrangling
12:19 kf oh thx :)
12:19 kf was thinking of you when I closed the amazon one :)
12:20 oleonard Good choice
12:20 kf hm
12:20 kf perl5lib path for a standard install?
12:23 jcamins_away PERL5LIB=/usr/share/koha/lib?
12:28 kf ok
12:28 kf then it looks right, thx jcamins_away :)
12:40 gmcharlt good morning
12:42 * magnuse waves
12:43 kf hi gmcharlt and magnuse :)
12:54 * magnuse takes a shot at tackling bug 7445
12:54 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7445 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Clicking on a tag gives "Language ... does not exist"
12:58 NateC Morning Ruth!
12:59 NateC morning #Koha!
13:00 kf hi NateC and talljoy
13:00 talljoy hi kf!!
13:00 NateC Hi kf :)
13:01 Oak kia ora #koha
13:02 magnuse Oak
13:02 Oak magnuse
13:02 magnuse yay!
13:02 Oak :)
13:02 magnuse hiya talljoy and NateC
13:03 talljoy hey magnuse!
13:03 wahanui i guess magnuse is afraid that we added another 10000 bugs while he was eating pizza.
13:03 talljoy heh
13:03 magnuse heh
13:05 NateC Hi magnuse!
13:15 kmkale Namaskaar #koha
13:16 Oak if I backup /var/lib/mysql/kohadb/*.frm then is it of any use?
13:18 Oak I now know the /var/spool/koha/kohadb folder... and the tar.gz and sql.gz files are the proper backup. but still just wondering if I can use the *.frm files...
13:33 kmkale Oak: not if you are using innodb
13:33 kmkale which is probably what you are using.
13:34 Oak i'll only ask silly questions for one or two months... after that I'll start asking average, non-silly questions.
13:34 kf Oak: I don't have an snwer for your question - it seems very non-silly to me :)
13:35 kmkale for innodb you need the ibdata* and ib_logfile* files too
13:35 Oak thank you!
13:35 Oak i'll annoy you when you are cait
13:35 Oak :)
13:36 Oak i can't afford to annoy kf!
13:36 Oak of kf_mtg
13:36 Oak or*
13:37 fabio_t Hi koha folks... I have an issue. I have deleted any bibliographic record (items included) from Koha backend (via items batch deletion and revert imported records tools) and ran koha-rebuild-zebra -f. If I search for records, none is returned (as expected) BUT some records are still in biblio database table. How could I get rid of them in a safe way? By truncating or deleting the table? Same applies to authorities and auth_header table; items table is empty t
13:37 fabio_t hough. Thanks a lot!
13:40 kmkale fabio_t: delete all from biblio and biblioitems tables
13:40 fabio_t thanks kmkale
13:41 fabio_t is it safe for auth_header table too?
13:41 magnuse i forget - should patches still be sent to the mailinglist?
13:42 oleonard New patches yes, not signoffs
13:42 magnuse thanks oleonard
13:45 kf ok... off to dentist :(
13:45 * magnuse adds another patch that needs signoff to the queue, making the total number 92
13:45 magnuse ooh, good luck kf
13:45 francharb good luck kf
13:45 francharb ahah
13:45 * wizzyrea goes to look at the ones needing signoff
13:45 * wizzyrea also waves good morning
13:46 * magnuse waves to wizzyrea
13:46 fabio_t hi there wizzyrea
13:47 kf thx...
13:47 * kf waves and heads out
13:51 fabio_t is it safe to run a "delete from auth_header" over koha's database?
13:53 fabio_t I have some authorities records not showing in Koha backend and I don't know how to safely delete them (I've already ran koha-rebuild-zebra -f but with no success, they still appears in db)
14:01 wizzyrea lol @ xkcd today - this is my life. http://xkcd.com/1037/
14:01 * francharb waves #koha
14:02 francharb I'm looking into bugzilla but I can't find this bug
14:02 francharb I think it's weird that no one reported it yet
14:02 francharb In the authority framework
14:03 oleonard wizzyrea: You know you see a different comic than people in different places?
14:03 francharb if you have an optional field with a mandatory subfield
14:03 oleonard francharb: Bug 7725?
14:04 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7725 minor, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Marking a subfield mandatory makes the entire field mandatory
14:04 francharb you can't add the authority if you don't put something in the mandatory subfiled
14:04 wizzyrea lolwut
14:04 francharb ahah
14:04 francharb exactly
14:05 francharb oleonard, i sorted by component and was checkiing the cataloging bugs
14:05 oleonard wizzyrea: http://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/rnpiw/mindboggling_xkcd_april_fools_comic/
14:05 francharb thanks oleonard !
14:05 wizzyrea ha that's awesome
14:06 oleonard wizzyrea: Although I don't see Kansas listed
14:06 wizzyrea just "midwest"
14:06 wizzyrea is what mine said.
14:07 oleonard Poor Kansas, lumped together with "all of tornado country"
14:07 * wizzyrea doesn't care so much - shoulda just said "flyover country"
14:08 oleonard Hmmm... the one listed on that page for Ohio isn't the one I get
14:32 fabio_t kmkale++
14:47 kmkale huh what did i do?
15:01 libsysguy o/
15:02 libsysguy So I just saw paul_p's message to the devel list
15:02 libsysguy and had an idea, but wanted to run it here before I sounded retarded via email :p
15:02 paul_p libsysguy which on ? because I write a lot of mails to koha-devel ;-)
15:02 libsysguy hehe
15:02 paul_p s/on/one/
15:02 libsysguy the one about the git repo size
15:03 paul_p (I was just reviving someone else idea ;-) )
15:04 libsysguy paul_p what about having a koha core install, then module installs for acq, circ, cataloging, etc
15:04 cait hm I am not sure that will work well - because they modules are integrated
15:04 cait or they should be for an ils :)
15:04 paul_p libsysguy I don't see the link to git repo size ?
15:04 cait why is the repo size such a problem?
15:04 libsysguy each module would have its own repo paul_p
15:05 gmcharlt fragmenting the codebase across multiple repositories is not worth it IMO
15:05 cait you clone it once, then you are ok, and bandwitdh is not really much of a problem nowadays?
15:05 * libsysguy is glad I brought this up on here first them :p
15:05 paul_p cait : when someone want to clone, it's large.
15:05 cait yes, but it#s a one time thing
15:05 paul_p gmcharlt & cait = feel free to jump in the discussion on koha-devel ! I have no strong opinion here, so...
15:05 libsysguy my thought was what if your library doesn't use acq, or doesn't circulate
15:05 jcamins I think the loss of history is a bigger problem than anything else.
15:06 jcamins libsysguy: don't use git.
15:06 libsysguy you could really cut down on some space
15:06 jcamins libsysguy: or, rather, use git for development, but not, for goodness sake, in production.
15:06 cait libsysguy: I think those parts are not the big problem
15:06 libsysguy jcamins has a point
15:06 paul_p cait : bandwith is not a problem for ppl from germany (or france, or US), but for some ppl from africa or other foreign countries it can be.
15:06 cait libsysguy: you could always remove the install folders with sample data and po files if you don't plan on using them
15:06 gmcharlt I would encourage somebody to set up regional mirrors, in that case
15:06 cait gmcharlt++ :)
15:07 paul_p jcamins = with frederic's suggestion, we don't loose history, we just split it in 2 places.
15:07 libsysguy I keep thinking about master as production not development and that is really my downfall :p
15:07 * jcamins is concerned about solr because of the overhead and what it would mean for developing countries, but if someone in Afghanistan is setting up Koha, I'm going to tell them not to download the git repo at all.
15:07 jcamins Use the packages.
15:07 paul_p jcamins = all our productions servers are using git. But not master. using git <> running master
15:08 jcamins paul_p: I know, but if you're concerned about bandwidth, packages are a smaller solution.
15:08 jcamins Or tarball.
15:08 paul_p jcamins one point for you ;-)
15:11 jcamins paul_p: if you're doing development, you need to download everything eventually anyway.
15:11 cait and keeping things together is better then
15:11 jcamins So instead of downloading 355MB with one command, you download it with two. Right?
15:37 mle cait: @Teviot.... 64 bytes from serene.ttllp.co.uk (86.54.115.53): icmp_req=7 ttl=55 time=12.6 ms but that is on the staff wireless ; ) I have confirmation that delegates will have internets. It is likely that it will be good enough uplink to stream. ; >
15:37 cait woohoo nice!
15:37 mle init
15:37 cait delegates?
15:37 mle erm. yes people coming to the conference
15:38 cait ah :)
15:38 jcamins mle: oh, I didn't realize the conference was actually going to be in Teviot.
15:38 cait was not sure if it meant only people presenting or all of us :)
15:38 mle it is in the Dining Hall @ Teviot. It is a wonderful space.
15:39 cait :)
15:39 cait how many people will fit in there?
15:40 jcamins Can't say I spent much time there (in the dining hall), but I recall it vaguely.
15:40 mle I have asked if there is a room in Informatics for the Hackfest, since certain obstables have now been overcome on that front. : )
15:40 mle I don't think I had ever been in the Dining Hall before
15:41 mle cait: plenty
15:41 alex_a dpavlin: ping
15:42 mle Capacity 150 http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/yourvenues/teviot/
15:42 mle cait but it will be a bit less than that, due to room layout
15:42 cait ah
15:42 cait hope we can fit all in then :)
15:43 cait it looks like a real nice place
15:43 mle It is lovely
15:43 mle I was hanging out in the Library bar today
15:43 mle ; )
15:43 cait :)
15:48 cait ok, #koha - I started looking at some old bugs this morning :)
15:49 cait I wonder - do we keep bugs like bug 1953 open forever
15:49 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1953 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt, REOPENED , remove possible SQL injection attacks
15:49 cait or close when last patch is pushed?
15:50 cait should we mark those 'omnibus' bus in some way to their purpose is clear?
15:50 cait like add some [tag] to the description?
15:50 fabio_t bye :)
15:50 cait hm now I scared the first one away.... any more who want to leave now?
15:52 cait no opinions? ooh
15:52 oleonard I vote close
15:58 cait oleonard++ for giving his opinion :)
15:58 cait anyone else wants karma?
15:58 cait or cookies?
15:58 wahanui Cookies are delicious delicacies
15:58 cait hi melia
15:58 melia morning
16:00 cait ok, bug 2399 - will it work to remove the blank values from the sample files?
16:00 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2399 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , All status fields in the item edit interface offer two blank/null entries per dropdown instead of one
16:00 cait I am willing to do it - but unsure if it's a good idea
16:00 cait or not
16:06 oleonard cait: You could get a lot of issues decided if you ask when no one is around to object ;)
16:07 cait but I don't want to decide alone...
16:07 cait I am trying it for german
16:07 cait and will provide a patch
16:08 cait and try to ask about some other old bugs later :)
16:09 oleonard I think one problem may be that the additem interface offers a blank entry so that you can not set a value, but authorised_values might also contain a blank entry which has a value of "0"
16:10 hdl 0 value is a value, if it means something, it should have a label
16:10 wizzyrea i agree with hdl
16:10 wizzyrea do we have default values that are 0 and have no labels?
16:10 wizzyrea we should fix that.
16:11 cait wizzy: all of them
16:11 cait 0 no label
16:11 wizzyrea lerd.
16:11 wizzyrea ok
16:11 wizzyrea so
16:11 cait i gues sit doesn't mean anything
16:11 wizzyrea the question is: what should the label be
16:11 wizzyrea "no value defined"
16:11 cait 0 the same then empty
16:12 cait no
16:12 cait we have no value defined
16:12 cait I think we should get really rid of them
16:12 wizzyrea what if, hypothetically
16:12 wizzyrea a library wants to choose not to choose
16:12 wizzyrea isn't that the point of the 0 value?
16:12 cait that works
16:12 cait now
16:12 cait I think it didn't always
16:13 wizzyrea aha
16:13 cait that's why people added 0
16:13 cait as auth value
16:13 cait and it makes us end up with 2 empty lines now
16:13 wizzyrea ok
16:13 cait :)
16:13 cait afaikt at least
16:13 wizzyrea so you're saying remove it from the sample authorized values
16:13 cait yeah,that was my idea
16:13 wizzyrea it won't touch existing installations
16:13 cait nope
16:13 cait i wouldn't write an update
16:14 wizzyrea by all means. Go ahead.
16:14 cait if someone complains
16:14 cait you can tell them to delete them
16:14 cait if they haven't figured that out already :)
16:14 cait but if someone has an example for a real 0 value... they appear in withdrawn, lost, damaged, notforloan and restricted
16:15 oleonard What do you mean by a real 0 value?
16:17 oleonard One disadvantage to setting a description for the 0 value is that it's harder to scan the list of items in cataloging. It's easier to see which ones are "Damaged" if you're not scanning through a bunch which say "Not damaged"
16:18 cait oleonard: I meant some piece of code really looking for 0
16:19 cait but I guess... not it's empty if you don't set something and nothing exploded sofar
16:21 cait hm most of the fields default to 0 in the database
16:21 cait and sorry for not making much sense- blame the dentist :)
16:21 oleonard Doing a search for "damaged =" returns some hits in pendingreserves.pl and reserveratios.pl
16:22 oleonard Hm, and lines in updatedatabase.pl: UPDATE items SET damaged = 0 WHERE damaged IS NULL
16:22 cait the field defaults to 0
16:22 cait in the table definition
16:22 oleonard Oh, okay.
16:23 cait so it should be ok :)
16:31 wizzyrea oleonard: intentional or a bug that the link from the home page for pending suggestions takes you to accepted suggestions instead of the pending tab?
16:31 wizzyrea (your fancy and awesome number
16:31 wizzyrea count for pending suggestions)
16:32 oleonard sounds like a bug
16:32 wizzyrea k will file one
16:33 cait wizzyrea: I think there is one
16:33 cait there is something weird about redirecting in suggestions :(
16:33 wizzyrea aha
16:35 cait hm not finding it
16:35 cait but I know there is one
16:37 cait wizzyrea: what I saw was all tabs were gone
16:37 cait except for the one I was redirected to
16:37 wizzyrea hmm
16:37 cait and I had to go bck to the start page and back into the module to see all my suggestions
16:37 wizzyrea in 3.6.4 all of the tabs are there
16:38 paul_p time to go back home for me. have a good day #koha !
16:38 juan_sieira bye Paul ¡¡
16:38 cait wizzyrea: that's good :)
16:39 cait bye paul_p
16:39 cait wizzyrea: ignore me - I can't find it
16:40 oleonard Bug 4068 is about tabs weirdness, not exactly the same thing.
16:40 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4068 major, P5 - low, ---, henridamien, NEW , Accepting a suggestion hides 'pending' tab
16:40 cait ooh
16:40 cait yes, I meant that
16:40 cait thx owen!
16:41 wizzyrea well I think I'll file this one anyway
16:41 wizzyrea as it's different
16:41 oleonard Maybe if I didn't have all this Bugzilla stuff stored in my head I would be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.
16:41 jcamins lol
16:41 cait lol
16:41 wizzyrea @quote add oleonard: maybe if I didn't have all this Bugzilla stuff stored in my head I would be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.
16:41 huginn wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. Quote #196 added.
16:42 wizzyrea @quote random
16:42 huginn wizzyrea: Quote #128: "When TDF was founded, the group's leadership invited Oracle to participate in the hope that the database giant would be willing to hand over the OOo trademark and allow the vendor-neutral governance body to take over stewardship of the project" (added by wizzyrea at 07:11 PM, April 18, 2011)
16:42 wizzyrea mhm.
16:43 cait @quote random
16:43 huginn cait: Quote #142: "Pianohacker: hrm. What's the plural of ILS again? Rangi: ILSESESESESESES" (added by wizzyrea at 08:54 PM, June 08, 2011)
16:43 cait lol
16:43 wizzyrea that's a great one.
16:43 wizzyrea @quote random
16:43 huginn wizzyrea: Quote #164: "<sekjal> word of advice to folks: take an aspirin before reading C4/Overdues.pm" (added by wizzyrea at 09:08 PM, November 14, 2011)
16:43 * wizzyrea nods
16:44 bag @wunder 93105
16:44 huginn bag: The current temperature in Samarkand San Roque Upper SB Weather, Santa Barbara, California is 14.8°C (9:43 AM PDT on April 02, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 38%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Rising). High surf advisory in effect until noon PDT today...
16:44 oleonard C4/[ insert your least favorite .pm here ]
16:44 cait Search.pm?
16:44 wahanui Search.pm is complicated and has been the source of much contention in the wake of KohaCon with BibLibre rewriting it for Solr/Lucene instead of Zebra support.
16:44 oleonard High surf advisory... we don't get many of those around here.
16:45 wizzyrea @wunder lawrence ks
16:45 huginn wizzyrea: The current temperature in Channel 6 Downtown, Lawrence, Kansas is 27.2°C (11:42 AM CDT on April 02, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 58%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 29.60 in 1002 hPa (Rising).
16:45 wizzyrea 27, at 11:45am
16:45 wizzyrea on april 2
16:45 bag yeah I should go surfing :)
16:45 wizzyrea that is INSANE.
16:46 bag yup that's mental
16:46 oleonard @wunder 45701
16:46 huginn oleonard: The current temperature in Ohio University, Athens, Ohio is 12.0°C (12:40 PM EDT on April 02, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 46%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Falling).
16:46 oleonard that's more sane
16:46 wizzyrea 12 is chillyish.
16:46 cait @wunder konstanz
16:46 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 14.4°C (6:39 PM CEST on April 02, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 39%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Pressure: 29.68 in 1005 hPa (Falling).
16:46 wizzyrea everybody has normal weather but me!
16:46 cait spring :)
16:46 * cait heads out to the supermarket
16:46 wizzyrea i won't lie, it's gorgeous here
16:46 jcamins @wunder 11375
16:46 huginn jcamins: The current temperature in APRSWXNET Jackson Heights NY US, Corona, New York is 8.3°C (12:12 PM EDT on April 02, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 52%. Dew Point: -1.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.78 in 1008 hPa (Steady).
16:47 wizzyrea ok that's getting into "br, for spring" territory
16:47 jcamins Yesterday it was bitterly cold.
16:48 jcamins Well, I guess it wasn't that much colder, but the fact that it was pouring and there was no subway meant that it felt bitterly cold by the time we got home.
16:50 libsysguy would anybody be up to signing off on bug 7852?
16:50 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7852 major, P1 - high, ---, kyle.m.hall, Needs Signoff , Hourly loan fines are not working
16:51 slef jcamins: packages mean downloading the whole thing each upgrade. git means big upload up front, then smaller. I wish I could figure out shallow clones properly.
16:51 jcamins slef: you end up downloading more.
16:51 jcamins slef: every time.
16:52 jcamins At least, that's how it seems to me.
16:55 jcamins It seems to me that an rsync server would be the solution for keeping downloads small.
17:05 schuster @wunder 75074
17:05 huginn schuster: The current temperature in Brookview, Plano, Texas is 24.4°C (11:53 AM CDT on April 02, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 60%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 29.68 in 1005 hPa (Falling).
17:12 cait back
17:23 maximep @wunder cyqb
17:23 huginn maximep: The current temperature in Quebec, Quebec is 6.0°C (1:00 PM EDT on April 02, 2012). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 27%. Dew Point: -12.0°C. Windchill: 2.0°C. Pressure: 29.75 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
17:34 chris_n cait: do any of your libraries serve electronic resources off of the same server as koha?
17:35 chris_n or wizzyrea
17:35 wahanui I LIKE SCIENCE
17:35 wizzyrea no, we don't
17:35 chris_n or anyone else :-)
17:35 chris_n just wondering if its best to use a different box, etc
17:36 jcamins chris_n: I'd think it would be.
17:36 cait chris_n: sorry no - we have only links in the records
17:36 jcamins chris_n: you should check with BibLibre, though.
17:36 jcamins They have that file upload thing.
17:37 gmcharlt also, if one is embedding (say) images in the OPAC, if you're using one server for both Koha and content, it still helps to use different virtual host names
17:37 chris_n we're getting ready to inculcate pdf scans some public domain works... older ones
17:37 gmcharlt that allows browsers to pull in static content with more parallelism
17:44 jcamins chris_n: how are you serving the media?
17:46 chris_n jcamins: viewable in browser with the option to download
17:47 * chris_n would like to have a fancy reader like internet archive, but that's probably not possible atm
17:47 jcamins chris_n: I meant on the backend. If you're using something heavy-duty like Fez/Fedora, you'd probably want it on a separate server because Tomcat is hefty.
17:47 * jcamins chuckles at this understatement.
17:49 chris_n no, just a vanilla apache install on ubuntu or debian depending on the mood :-)
17:50 jcamins How are you uploading the files?
17:50 chris_n at the moment I'm doing it from the backend, but I've not thought that far ahead
17:51 jcamins (I bet you weren't expecting a kind of Spanish inquisition!)
17:51 chris_n :-)
17:51 chris_n I suppose I should use some sort of CMS
17:52 schuster So I'm setting up a new Koha system any recommendations on the email on debian to use?
17:52 * chris_n looks worriedly to see if jcamins has gone for the thumb-screws
17:52 jcamins schuster: bring out the comfy chair!
17:52 chris_n lol
17:52 jcamins schuster: I prefer Postfix.
17:53 schuster was getting the popcorn ready for a lecture...
17:54 schuster thanks
17:54 jcamins schuster: some people prefer Exim.
17:54 jcamins No one prefers sendmail. ;)
17:56 schuster K thanks - this will have to run through a mail proxy too... just venturing in ...
17:56 jcamins I'm definitely pro-Postfix.
17:57 schuster thanks
19:27 francharb sssssssssseeee yaaaaa
19:44 mib_tv8sa8 i have an issue when we search the catalog it returns results however clicking some of the results gives an error, i was told by the librarian that she didnt delete any of the affected records
19:44 cait it sounds like an index problem
19:44 mib_tv8sa8 http://lib.themico.edu.jm/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?idx=kw&q=harcourt&offset=20
19:44 cait or a problem with translation
19:45 mib_tv8sa8 how do i fix that?
19:45 mib_tv8sa8 i'm wondering if maybe the data was lost or something
19:45 oleonard mib_tv8sa8: Are you talking about "Error 404" ?
19:46 jcamins I think you need to reindex, most likely.
19:46 rangi Morning
19:46 jcamins However, before going into troubleshooting...
19:46 jcamins Second question?
19:46 wahanui i guess Second question is "What is the exact error message?"
19:46 jcamins No.
19:46 jcamins Third question?
19:46 wahanui well, Third question is "What version of Koha are you using?" http://koha-community.org/faq/find-version-koha-running/
19:46 cait morning rangi
19:46 jcamins ^^ that's the question I wanted to ask. :)
19:46 cait 3.04 :)
19:46 jcamins Morning.
19:46 wahanui somebody said morning was a state of mind.
19:46 cait 3.4
19:47 jcamins cait: oh, thanks. I guess mib_tv8sa8 just said that and I didn't notice?
19:47 mib_tv8sa8 http://lib.themico.edu.jm/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=harcourt, that was the search term when i click on any of the results past about 10 i get error 404
19:47 cait nope, I checked the opac
19:47 cait first thing I did
19:47 mbalmer good evening koha community
19:47 jcamins Clever.
19:48 jcamins Zeno isn't here, is he?
19:48 jcamins Ah well.
19:49 jcamins Any Italian speakers around?
19:49 jcamins mib_tv8sa8: what changed before this error started occurring?
19:51 mbalmer jcamins, I can order beer in italian, does that count?
19:51 mib_tv8sa8 it seem all references for catalogs over about 1750 are missing...i checked the biblio table and it has about 1700records another table that seem to have and audit log or something indicates catalog numbers in the 2400+ region
19:51 jcamins mbalmer: I'm trying to figure out whether Marzio or Marizio is more likely to be the right name in Italian.
19:52 mib_tv8sa8 the system had gone down, when it came back mysql kept crashing, turns out to be a problem with sessions table and zebraqueue table
19:52 mbalmer Maurizio, jcamins
19:52 jcamins mbalmer: cool, looks like ordering beer is enough, thanks. :)
19:52 mbalmer Marzio sounds quite wrong.
19:52 jcamins mib_tv8sa8: did you reindex?
19:52 jcamins mbalmer: yeah, that's what I thought.
19:53 jcamins That sounds like a month, or something not Italian.
19:53 mbalmer definitely not italian..
19:53 mib_tv8sa8 how do i reindex?
19:53 jcamins mib_tv8sa8: how did you install Koha?
19:53 jcamins (packages, git, tarball, etc.)
19:53 oleonard mib_tv8sa8: It's usually something your system administrator would handle
19:54 mib_tv8sa8 i had to drop the contents of those tables in order to get mysql to run
19:54 mib_tv8sa8 from pkg
19:54 mib_tv8sa8 tarball
19:54 jcamins Okay.
19:54 jcamins searching faq?
19:54 wahanui i heard searching faq was at http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/
19:55 jcamins See the last question for the command.
19:55 jcamins You want to use the rebuil_zebra.pl one.
19:56 cait anyone opposed to closing bug 2657?
19:56 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2657 normal, P3, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED , AutoEmailPrimaryAddress preference not universally applied
19:56 cait it as reported against 3.0 and there are no current bugs reporting that it's not applied to some kind of message
19:56 mbalmer is it enough to add patches to a bug or do I need to mail them to koha-patches as well?
19:56 cait and from another bug we know it works for overdues
19:56 mib_tv8sa8 i installed from the tarball i will run the script right now
19:57 jcamins mbalmer: if there hasn't been any patch submitted previously, you should send it to the list as well.
19:57 mbalmer ok.
19:57 cait jcamins: which I forgot twice today already... hmpf :)
19:57 mbalmer will do.
19:58 oleonard git bz makes it easy to forget :)
20:00 jcamins Most people have switched to using git-bz, so it's not so important now, I think.
20:00 jcamins (still should be done, but if you're a day late, it probably won't delay your patch getting in... at least that's my theory)
20:05 oleonard See y'all later, #koha
20:05 chris_n bye
20:07 mbalmer cait, please no new MySQLisms, please rework your patch.
20:07 cait I added no new mysqlisms
20:07 cait I removed lines
20:07 mbalmer yes, you did.
20:07 cait there is no chance i added new
20:07 cait I didn#t rework the whole file
20:07 cait but I think that's a patch for another day
20:08 mbalmer +INSERT INTO `authorised_values` (`id`, `category`, `authorised_value`, `lib`) VALUES (LAST_INSERT_ID( ) + 4,'LOST','4','ОтÑутÑтвует при инвентиризации');
20:08 cait I renumbered
20:08 mbalmer Please remove the backquotes.
20:09 jcamins There weren't any MySQLisms added in that patch.
20:10 mbalmer but MySQLisms were changed, which is not acceptable either. Easy to remove, so please remove them.
20:10 maximep just curious, how do you escape characters in field names in postgres?
20:10 rangi Send a followup mbalmer
20:11 mbalmer rangi. no that is up to the one who posts a patch.
20:11 jcamins We generally defer to our elected QA team for making these decisions.
20:11 chris_n mbalmer: probably a better way would be to followup with a patch that removes backticks entirely from that file
20:11 mbalmer I will just continue to complain about MySQLisms.
20:11 mbalmer yes, I will go through all code and remove backquotes.
20:11 rangi Go for it
20:11 chris_n chipping away line by line will be extremely slow going
20:11 gmcharlt mbalmer: sure, that's a possible strategy, but not necessarily the most effective one to achieve your end (the complaining about it)
20:11 chris_n sorta like the perl-tidy issues
20:12 mbalmer but everyone who changes SQL code should do it proper now.
20:12 gmcharlt sending_patches++
20:12 chris_n sending_patches++
20:12 jcamins chris_n: yeah, but this seems rather less destructive to history than a mass Perl-tidy.
20:12 jcamins sending_patches++
20:12 chris_n jcamins: right
20:13 mbalmer maximep, in PostgresSQL, you have to quote column names that are e.g. keywords.
20:13 chris_n jcamins: and that is probably an issue for mass mysqlism changes as well
20:14 rangi My bus stop
20:14 rangi Bbiab
20:14 jcamins chris_n: it is, but if we're talking about changing backticks in one file, that's not so bad.
20:14 mbalmer bug 7365 has some sub-bugs with patches to remove some mysqlism.
20:14 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7365 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, marc, In Discussion , Koha uses MySQL
20:14 chris_n which makes fredericd 's "new" git thought all the more interesting
20:14 jcamins The logic will be a lot easier to trace backwards.
20:14 mbalmer the backticks I plan to remove in one monster-patch..
20:15 chris_n ie. archive the existing repo and open an new one with mass changes completed
20:15 * chris_n heads out for the day
20:15 jcamins Have a good evening.
20:15 mbalmer my grep pattern is easy: whenever I see a ^+ line that contains a MySQLism, I will complain on the mailing list.
20:16 jcamins mbalmer: that doesn't seem very productive.
20:16 chris_n tact?
20:16 jcamins chris_n: huh?
20:16 mbalmer jcamins, It makes people aware of the problem.
20:19 mbalmer but changing the backticks in one patch will already help greatly, since many people just copy and paste.
20:19 mbalmer and when there is no mysqlism to copy, there is no mysqlism to paste.
20:21 gmcharlt mbalmer: there's another appraoch to try after 3.8 is released -- submitting a test case that looks for backticks in the appropriate source files and fails the test if it detects an SQL query that uses them
20:21 gmcharlt that way, the "complaining" would be done via bot, not personally
20:21 sekjal ^^
20:21 sekjal I second gmcharlt's suggestion
20:22 mbalmer heh, but folks need a person to blame ;)
20:22 mbalmer but yes, automated tests are good.
20:22 mbalmer I learned that in Marseille.
20:22 gmcharlt mbalmer: let the bots have the indigestion, not the people ;)
20:34 sekjal I think there is plenty of work as things stand now that moves equally towards both goals
20:34 sekjal mbalmer: do you know of any Postgres-specific features that would provide a direct benefit to library patrons? It's been a long while since I used it
20:35 rangi it also had 2 separate database handles, one for staff one for opac, bring that back would be good too
20:36 jcamins Ooh, I like that idea!
20:37 rangi a read and a write handle
20:37 rangi then you can read from slaves write to master
20:37 rangi and since 98% of the work koha does is reads
20:37 rangi you can share a lot of load around
20:38 sekjal rangi: that sounds pretty sweet
20:38 gmcharlt Postgres is also a *lot* nicer to develop stored procedures for
20:38 rangi ive seen it used well on a quite a few high traffic projects
20:38 gmcharlt although, of course, that wouldn't really be consistent with DBMS-independence
20:39 mbalmer Imo, DB independence has to solve one big problem: To not only use the least common features of all DBs, but to allow us to use advanced features where available. That is a ture problem.
20:39 gmcharlt it has better type checking enabled by default
20:39 gmcharlt (though mysql can be made stricter, too -- just isn't normally configured that way)
20:40 * rangi works with a postgres developer
20:40 mbalmer sekjal, I think that asynchronous and synchronous replication are one feature that you want. Plus that your data is more safe when it comes to system crashes etc.
20:40 mbalmer oh yes, MySQL can store illegal dates. Crazy… ;)
20:41 rangi and we use it for most of our work like tab.co.nz and stuff.co.nz
20:41 mbalmer rangi, who is that?
20:41 rangi what i dont want to see is yet another blah blah postgres is better than mysql blah blah vim blah blah
20:41 gmcharlt well, mysql supports replication as well
20:41 rangi emacs blah blah
20:41 * gmcharlt is occupying the fence, doncha know ;)
20:41 rangi i think what sekjal was asking is what can it do for patrons
20:41 mbalmer rangi, vi is better ;P
20:42 sekjal right, in the end, it'll be up to each sysadmin what platform they think is best for their stuff
20:42 jcamins rangi: I always use C-x M-c M-butterfly when those conversations come up.
20:42 rangi mbalmer: mark kirkwood
20:42 jcamins Make the people arguing disappear.
20:42 mbalmer rangi, yes, there is an issue; MySQL has been bought by Oracle, and that fact alone makes a good lot of MySQL users very nervous.
20:43 sekjal but if some feature of one database or another can make or break a feature for patron usage, then I'm all ears
20:43 rangi yes, i am aware of that
20:43 gmcharlt mbalmer: well, there's always s/mysql/mariadb/
20:43 cait heya jo
20:43 * cait waves
20:43 mbalmer or s/mysql/PostgreSQL/ or even a better solution where both can be used.
20:44 rangi i like drizzle
20:44 jcamins sekjal: I've always understood that an RDBMS is an RDBMS is an RDBMS.
20:44 sekjal jcamins: for most functionality, I think it is
20:44 mbalmer I am currently working towards a DB independent solutions that still lets us use features from a DB.
20:44 mbalmer aka not the least common denominator.
20:45 cait @later tell oleonard can you take a look at 2733? I am not sure what to do about this - perhaps we could rename to print account? Is the print page maintained? Or perhaps should be removed?
20:45 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
20:45 jcamins mbalmer: and what does that get the patrons?
20:46 sekjal mbalmer: I guess what I'm after is: what beyond the least common denominator is worth coding up special exemptions for?
20:46 mbalmer jcamins, running on a stable DB is already a gain.
20:46 sekjal where the measure of "worth" is patron satisfaction
20:46 mbalmer MySQL is not a stable DB.
20:47 rangi wow, exactly the blah i was meaning
20:47 sekjal mbalmer: that's a bold claim, and would require bold evidence to be taken as anything more than an opinion
20:47 jcamins mbalmer: but we could run on Postgres if we coded for the LCD.
20:47 mbalmer sure, sekjal.
20:48 mbalmer very easy to currupt a MySQL DB, very hard to corrupt a PostgreSQL DB.
20:48 mbalmer nothing I need to defend, it's just a fact.
20:48 rangi LOL
20:48 schuster mbalmer - running 4 years just fine here pretty big db if you ask me...
20:49 schuster walking away... It's actually better than what I had that was proprietary before this...
20:49 sekjal mbalmer: I'm a librarian... I'll always be one of those folks holding up the "citation needed" sign
20:49 mbalmer I force nobody to run on PostgreSQL, but we decided to support PostgreSQL, so that is what I am doing. Giving users a choice.
20:49 cait sekjal++ for being a librarian :)
20:50 mbalmer I don't care to much if you run on MySQL. The goal is to run on both.
20:50 gmcharlt mbalmer: I don't think there is actually much disagreement that support for Pg (in the guise of DB-independence) would be a Nice Thing
20:51 gmcharlt and the fact that you're willing to work on it is great ... just, well
20:51 gmcharlt working code wins?
20:51 gmcharlt more code less arguing?
20:51 mbalmer look at bug 7365
20:51 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7365 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, marc, In Discussion , Koha uses MySQL
20:51 mbalmer and the sub bugs
20:51 mbalmer the buglets ;)
20:51 mib_tv8sa8 well i had a problem where a single table in a database cause mysql to crash 3 seconds after starting, the table indicated that it had about 100 records more than was actually there
20:51 sekjal mbalmer: at a practical, let's-write-some-patches level, I think the two approaches are completely compatible at this time. once they're not, then we'll have to discuss in more depth
20:52 mbalmer and wiki/PostgreSQL
20:52 mib_tv8sa8 mysql could not stay running with this table
20:54 mbalmer mveron had his disk filled up up by a rogie script (actually a bug of mine), then MySQL stop working, then the machines stopped working, he had to reboot, and then it tooks hours to rebuild the MySQL DB. MySQL just is not very robust when it comes to suche cases.
20:54 sekjal I would very much like to stay and continue, but I've got to catch a bus.
20:54 sekjal cheers, #koha
20:54 mbalmer cu
20:55 libsysguy [off] mbalmer did mysql cheat on you or something?
20:55 mbalmer ???
20:55 libsysguy it sounds like you are on some kind of crusade
20:55 * libsysguy was just lurking
20:56 jcamins Heh.
20:57 mbalmer not a crusade, but I see advantages of PostgresSQL over MySQL on various levels/issues. And these are coherent with what I see from users/customers. And keep in mind that I always said: Support both of them. I did not say "switch to PG". Users should choose.
20:57 rangi i guess thats what it all boils down to, tone
20:59 libsysguy yeah I get database independence and best practices…but like rangi said…its the tone
20:59 mbalmer if we create a proper abstraction for MySQL and PostgreSQL now, I am sure it will be easier to support other databases in the future, too.
21:00 mib_tv8sa8 true mbalmer
21:01 jcamins Sure, but why don't we just program to LCD?
21:01 mib_tv8sa8 and given mysql's oracle takeover i'm not expecting mysql to grow at its previous pace
21:01 bag @wunder 93109
21:01 huginn bag: The current temperature in K6LCM-Westside/Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 21.4°C (2:00 PM PDT on April 02, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 28%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Pressure: 29.99 in 1016 hPa (Falling).
21:01 mbalmer jcamins, what does LCD in this context stand for?
21:01 mib_tv8sa8 least commaon denominator
21:01 jcamins Lowest Common Denominator.
21:02 libsysguy if you really cared about database independence perhaps you should push for complete database abstraction
21:02 libsysguy I hate to jet but I've gotta get on the road…I'll see you guys tomorrow
21:02 mbalmer ah, I see. I think LCD is a bad way. It does prevent us from using advanced features of a database.
21:02 libsysguy later #koha
21:02 mbalmer it will make Koha slow..
21:03 mbalmer well, it already is slow ;)
21:04 jcamins Okay, time for me to call it a day, too.
21:04 jcamins Good night, #koha.
21:18 cait bug 2778
21:18 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2778 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Search Also missing from subfied framework edit
21:18 cait search also links in frameworks - those were related to nozebra, is that right?
21:20 rangi not sure cait
21:20 wahanui well, not sure cait is leistungsfähig
21:20 cait wahanui?
21:20 wahanui yes, cait?
21:20 cait what are you talking about?
21:21 cait rangi: whatever it was - seems to be gone
21:26 magnus_afk use the rdf, luke!
21:27 rangi foaf
21:27 rangi :)
21:27 rangi you could have some fun with foaf and authors
21:28 cait magnus_away: ? )
21:28 cait :)
22:00 Space_Librarian morning #koha
22:00 rangi hiya Space_Librarian
22:00 Space_Librarian hey rangi