Time Nick Message
02:31 dgl-library Good morning #koha
02:31 dgl-library Is there anyone here who can answer a question about barcode scanners?
02:37 dgl-library And a question about printing spine labels and barcodes
02:51 jcamins dgl-library: I'm not here, but you can use any barcode scanner you want, as they just act like a keyboard.
02:52 jcamins All barcodes/spine labels on a sheet have to be the same size.
02:52 * jcamins leaves again.
03:57 eythian @later tell jcamins it's pretty easy, you just set it up like any SSL cert for apache.
03:57 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded.
03:59 jcamins_away eythian: you make it sound so simple.
03:59 eythian jcamins_away: it's fairly simple, at least once you've done it once :)
04:00 jcamins_away eythian: right.
04:00 jcamins_away Which I haven't.
04:00 jcamins eythian: what about the client certificate?
04:00 jcamins This is the part where I get most confused.
04:01 jcamins Do I really have to set up my own CA?
04:01 eythian http://www.symantec.com/connect/articles/apache-2-ssltls-step-step-part-3 <-- I think I used this
04:01 eythian you will need to make a CA cert, and then sign the client certs using that
04:01 eythian http://www.garex.net/apache/ <-- also useful
04:02 jcamins I have to tell you, I have reconsidered my consideration of using PKI/X.509 for authentication.
04:02 jcamins Apache will only start ~50% of the time with SSL enabled.
04:03 jcamins 0% of the time when I enable StdEnvVars.
04:03 eythian that's weird
04:03 jcamins Yeah.
04:03 eythian we have had it in production for a while now with no issues
04:03 jcamins Oh, I'm sure it *works*.
04:04 jcamins I just think the whole thing is a little too brittle, if I can run "sudo apache2ctl restart" twice in a row, and have it work one time but not the other.
04:04 eythian yeah, that's very strange
04:04 * jcamins looks at the number of steps.
04:04 jcamins I don't think I'm signing off on bug 6296, sorry.
04:04 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6296 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, robin, Needs Signoff , Allow authentication to Koha via PKI / x.509 certificates
04:04 jcamins Also, there are a few bugs in it.
04:05 jcamins I'll attach my revised patch, still unsigned-off-on, but at least Koha will function with it applied. :)
04:45 dgl-library jcamins: Are barcodes and spine labels printed on the same sheet? And can I set the label size in Koha, or do only certain sizes (i.e. certain Avery label sheets) work properly?
04:45 jcamins dgl-library: no they are not. They're separate.
04:45 jcamins You configure the size of the labels.
04:45 jcamins That's pretty much all I know about them.
04:45 jcamins I buy preprinted.
04:45 bag wait you can do alternating
04:46 dgl-library jcamins: you buy preprinted barcodes and only print spine labels yourself
04:46 jcamins bag: really? I was under the impression you couldn't.
04:46 jcamins dgl-library: right.
04:46 bag one barcode and then one biblio
04:46 dgl-library bag: on the same sheet, a bunch at a time?
04:47 bag yup it's called alternating
04:48 dgl-library that sounds good
04:48 dgl-library also can we start out buying preprinted barcodes, and then move to printing our own? or do we basically have to use one method forever?
04:48 bag nope you can use preprinted - then print your own - then go back to preprinted
04:49 dgl-library fantastic. that makes things easier.
04:50 dgl-library as for barcode scanners, I've been reading the reviews on amazon, and I'm looking at one that's rated well, but when it sends the barcode number, by default it sends [ENTER KEY] at the end. is that the preferred koha behavior?
04:51 bag yes
04:52 dgl-library ok thanks
04:53 dgl-library I've been telling everyone here that I'm getting help from other koha users elsewhere in the world and they're amazed
04:53 dgl-library afk
05:48 dgl-library Do I need to set up a field for (koha's) Item Type in the Marc frameworks?
06:10 ibeardslee I think I might spend a wee bit of time working out how to tune those ubuntu install instructions
07:03 cait hi #koha
07:05 dgl-library hi cait
07:11 cait hi dgl-library
07:45 cait hm
07:45 * cait hands jenkins the duct tape
07:51 cait @later tell paul_p I tried using the sanboxes to verify a bug - but don't know how to login?
07:52 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
07:52 cait morning mbalmer
07:52 mbalmer morning!
07:52 wahanui morning is a state of mind.
08:04 mbalmer are there any docs how to configure and activate the SIP2 server?
08:11 cait mbalmer: yes, in themanuasl
08:11 cait I think
08:11 cait http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_SIP2_server_setup
08:12 mbalmer I found the config file. The docs on the wiki are abit wrong, but still useful
08:16 mbalmer login: term1
08:16 mbalmer password: term1
08:16 mbalmer Invalid login
08:16 mbalmer Login OK. Initiating SIP
08:16 mbalmer I guess it has bugs..
08:16 cait hm
08:16 cait no
08:16 cait it works
08:16 cait we use it in 2 libraries
08:16 cait do you have a patron in koha with permissions for circulating?
08:16 mbalmer no patrons yet on my development system
08:17 cait ah
08:17 cait you need one
08:17 cait for the sip
08:17 cait the sip acts as a staff member
08:17 mbalmer but it should not output "invalid login" then Login OK.
08:17 cait ok, that's a bug perhaps, but it can't work
08:17 mbalmer but isn't the login I define in <accounts> in SIPconfig.xml for the machine?
08:18 cait ys
08:18 cait a staffmember
08:18 mbalmer oh, btw, yes I have a patron.
08:18 cait you have to add a patron account with some permissions
08:18 cait and enter the login data for that patron into your sip config
08:18 mbalmer and with the same name as the patron?
08:18 cait ?
08:19 mbalmer well, I create a patron 'arcapos' in the staff client, then I create that as an account in SIPconfig.xml?
08:19 cait yes
08:19 cait and your sip patron user needs some permissions
08:20 cait circulate I think
08:20 mbalmer an in the staff client (de-DE) "Nachname" is the patron name?
08:20 cait and perhaps catalog
08:20 cait no
08:20 cait you need username and password
08:20 cait scroll down
08:20 cait opac login
08:20 mbalmer ah!
08:20 cait hm
08:20 cait thinking about it
08:20 cait you need cardnumber and password
08:20 cait or not sure
08:21 cait patrons authenticate with cardnumber + password, I am not totally sure about the sip user for the machine
08:21 mbalmer yes, but that is in the SIP protocol. before I can use SIP, the machine has to authtnticate itself at the SIPserver
08:21 cait I would just make it both the same - cardnumber and username
08:22 cait yeah, you put that data in the config file
08:22 mbalmer it's that machine account that I was referring, too.
08:22 cait yes
08:22 mbalmer s/too/to/
08:22 cait Ich denke wir reden aneinander vorbei
08:23 mbalmer that machine account, defined in SIPconfig.xml does not worl.
08:23 cait then there is something wrong in the data you entered
08:23 cait or with the user
08:24 mbalmer strange
08:25 cait what data did you enter?
08:25 cait does the user have circulation permissions?
08:25 cait circulate and catalog? perhaps staff access?
08:26 mbalmer wait, I am still talking about the machine's account. the one needed to get to the SIP server, not the account of the patron.
08:26 cait yes
08:26 cait I do that too
08:26 cait it acts as a staff member
08:26 cait so it needs permissions
08:26 mbalmer so why did term1 work when I don't have a patron with that name?
08:27 cait I don't think it really worked
08:27 cait could you check out?
08:28 mbalmer I have no real client yet.
08:28 cait I am not sure what you are trying to do
08:29 mbalmer and I don't want to checkout/checkin, but to pay fees (point of sales terminal for self service)
08:29 cait and I can't find the page in the old manual about setting up the sip user
08:29 cait I think without test data it's hard to tell if oyu can
08:39 cait hm
08:40 cait jenkins
08:43 mbalmer So I must create a stadd user apparently, so lets find out how to do that
08:46 mbalmer aha, it get's betterer
08:47 mbalmer now to set permissions on a patron. sigh, why is this sunday so brutal to me ;)
08:47 cait it's always what you make of it
08:48 mbalmer Hah! Victory! : Login OK. Initiating SIP
08:49 mbalmer <institution> in SIPconfig.xml must match the branch code of the library
08:50 cait yeah, obviously
08:51 mbalmer I hope to get www.arcapos.de working with Koha one day.
08:57 mbalmer hmm, aynone knows a URL to the SIP2 specification?
08:57 cait it's in google
08:57 cait 3m and sip2
08:58 mbalmer found 3M Standard Interchange Protocol V2.00
11:19 mbalmer SIP login from C program to Koha already works..
11:22 cait cool
11:29 mbalmer now let's see if I can scan the patron card at the POS terminal and retrieve patron status and due fees from Koha ..
11:30 cait mbalmer: perhaps look for feepaid in bugzilla - the fee payment support is rather new and might not support the whole standard
11:31 mbalmer tnx for the hint
11:31 cait sure :)
12:18 Oak hello cait.
12:18 mbalmer hah! got the checksumming right, Koha responds properly to my SIP SC Status message
12:19 cait Oak: hello Oak
12:19 cait :)
12:28 mbalmer I wonder if my SIP implementation will also work with a Sunrise system..
13:13 mbalmer two nice C functions help with SIP: sip_printf() and sip_scanf()
13:45 seneca Buongiorno!
13:46 cait hi seneca
13:46 seneca <-- just got back from Italy. :)
13:46 seneca anyone ever have their mysql db grow very large in a short time?
13:46 seneca At least, I think that's what happened.
13:47 seneca It seems my koha db is ~23GB - it has grown so much it has filled the filesystem and crashed mysqld.
13:47 cait oh
13:47 cait session table perhaps?
13:47 seneca I have to admit, though, that I wasn't really paying attention to how big it was before I left...
13:48 seneca Maybe it just got that big naturally?
13:48 seneca there's only about 21k items...
13:48 cait hm not so likely then
13:49 seneca That's what I was thinking. Is there a way to clear the session table?
13:50 seneca ...or a way to see the sizes of individual tables in a db?
13:51 cait not sure about seeing sizes
13:51 cait we clean the sessiont able every night
13:51 cait you could just truncate it - but it will log out all current users
13:51 seneca at you installation?
13:52 seneca we're a school and it's a weekend, so I'm not too worried about that. ;)
13:52 jcamins_away Almost certainly sessions table.
13:52 jcamins_away Truncate it.
13:53 seneca I think I know how to check the number of rows...should there only be active logins in the sessions table?
13:53 jcamins_away seneca: it will be every session ever, if you haven't been truncating regularly.
13:53 seneca hmmm
13:53 seneca I see
13:53 seneca let me check the rows...
13:54 seneca 8353708 rows
13:54 seneca ha!
13:54 seneca yeah
13:54 seneca that seems ridiculously high
13:55 cait seneca: there is a cronjob you can use to clean it every night
13:55 seneca I think that's more sessions than possible...
13:56 seneca We've only been running this install for a couple of years, and we're a school of about 500 users...
13:56 seneca odd
13:56 seneca I should certainly truncate it, though
13:56 jcamins Yeah.
13:56 jcamins Hopefully it will work.
13:57 seneca ok
13:57 seneca truncated it...
13:57 cait seneca: bots
13:57 seneca but it's growing... first check after truncated shows 5 rows
13:57 seneca then 19
13:57 seneca now 29
13:58 jcamins Wow!
13:58 jcamins Run netstat.
13:58 seneca guess I found a problem!
13:58 jcamins Yes, I think so.
13:58 seneca I have an established connection to a "66.249.71.147:47278"
13:59 seneca but that's it
13:59 jcamins I have no idea what it could be, but that's a big problem.
14:00 cait paul_p mentioned they had massive problems with bots the last few weeks
14:00 cait I wonder if activating a robots.txt would help?
14:01 seneca hmm...
14:02 seneca ha!
14:02 seneca that ip seems to be a google bot
14:02 seneca should that be generating sessions?
14:03 seneca I was thinking sessions were only logins
14:03 jcamins seneca: every connection creates a session.
14:03 jcamins Nope.
14:03 seneca ah
14:03 seneca that explains it
14:03 seneca where should the robots.txt go?
14:03 cait hm
14:03 cait there is a sample file
14:03 cait in the main directory I think
14:14 seneca OK, went for the sample robots.txt that blocks everything
14:14 seneca just to test
14:15 cait did it help?
14:15 seneca still am connected to that google bot, and the sessions are still growing...
14:15 seneca 113 sessions in about 4 minutes
14:15 cait hm
14:15 cait can you block it?
14:15 cait or kick it out?
14:15 seneca probably ;)
14:16 seneca Am I thinking correctly: I don't have to do anything to "activate" a robots.txt file, right?
14:16 seneca Those crawlers that will pay attention to it will just start paying attention to it, I think...
14:17 cait no
14:17 cait I don't think yo have
14:17 cait did you play clean?
14:18 seneca I'm not sure what you mean
14:21 cait wrong window :)
14:21 cait sorry :)
14:23 seneca oh...:)
14:23 jcamins seneca: Scrabble has taken #koha by storm. ;)
14:24 seneca hehe
14:25 mbalmer ahah...
14:25 seneca another db question while I work on blocking the google bot: I've truncated the sessions table but didn't get any filesystem space back. Is there a way to do get it back from the db?
14:25 mbalmer when requesting patron information over SIP, Koha sets field AF to "Greetings from Koha".
14:32 cait mbalmer: I think it always did that
14:32 cait seems to be no problem, the machines ignore it
14:32 mbalmer friendly Koha ;)
14:33 mbalmer I can now scan a patron card at the _point of sale terminal_ and it retrieves patron information using SIP. that's a great start.
14:41 cait :)
14:42 jcamins You know, SSL is possibly the worst-designed technology I have ever had the misfortune of using.
14:43 jcamins Basically all the instructions come down to "and then everything will work."
14:43 jcamins When it doesn't work, your only option is to use curl.
14:43 jcamins Koha is not particularly curl-friendly.
14:44 cait hm
14:44 cait what is curl?
14:44 wahanui i think curl is pretty slick :-)
14:44 jcamins cait: it's like wget.
14:44 jcamins Fancier, but it's still a command line tool for retrieving things over HTTP.
14:44 * jcamins prefers not to do his web browsing by reading HTML source.
14:50 cait hm
14:52 mbalmer that would be like operating a library over SIP insteaf of using the staff client…..
14:53 jcamins mbalmer: unpleasant.
14:53 mbalmer anyway, got further with my C SIP implementation that I thought.
14:53 mbalmer s/that/than/
14:55 * jcamins sighs.
14:56 jcamins That was just depressing.
14:56 mbalmer ??
14:56 cait didn't gt it working?
14:56 jcamins mbalmer: I've been trying to test bug 6926 for the last 24 hours.
14:56 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6926 normal, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, paul.poulain, Pushed to Master , overdue_notices don't send itemcount to notification
14:56 jcamins No.
14:56 jcamins Bug 6296
14:56 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6296 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, robin, Failed QA , Allow authentication to Koha via PKI / x.509 certificates
14:56 jcamins That's the one.
14:56 jcamins I *finally* managed to figure out how to test it, and it doesn't work!
14:57 cait ouch
14:57 jcamins (and, yes, it deserves a "finally managed to figure out how to test";)
14:57 cait make robin fix it?
14:57 jcamins cait: that's the plan.
14:59 jcamins I think eythian attached the wrong patch. :(
14:59 * cait sends cookies
15:00 jcamins Thanks.
15:00 jcamins Oh, BTW...
15:00 jcamins SSL--
15:00 jcamins @karma ssl
15:00 huginn jcamins: Karma for "ssl" has been increased 0 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of -1.
15:00 jcamins SSL--
15:00 jcamins @karma ssl
15:00 huginn jcamins: Karma for "ssl" has been increased 0 times and decreased 2 times for a total karma of -2.
15:00 jcamins Better, anyway.
15:20 mbalmer ah crap, the SIP response to "patron status" sent by Koha is in the wrong order (violates SIP spec imo)
15:22 jcamins mbalmer: you should sign off on bugs 3638 and 6273, since you're working on SIP.
15:22 seneca OK, update for everyone
15:23 mbalmer I am working on a C client implememtation, fwiw, jcamins
15:23 seneca b/c I know you're dying to find out ;)
15:23 seneca my super-huge db was due to the sessions table
15:23 jcamins mbalmer: yeah, so you'll have a working testbed.
15:23 cait mbalmer: the problem with sip patches is that it's hard to find someone testing them
15:23 mbalmer took a note of those bug numbers
15:24 mbalmer well, I _have_ a working SIP client now.
15:24 seneca I was able to truncate the sessions table, but - as is expected, I guess - the db didn't shrink to a smaller size
15:24 seneca however, the steps here: http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?35,121880,121886
15:24 seneca worked great
15:25 seneca and I even did this: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/innodb-multiple-tablespaces.html
15:25 cait Sorry, 'JEDI' may be misspelled or may be a proper noun! !!!
15:25 seneca to ensure that if it happens again, I only need to deal with one table, not the entire db
15:25 jcamins seneca: a good idea.
15:25 seneca I've got a really restrictive robots.txt in place now, so I hope that will save some space/bandwidth
15:26 seneca and I'm going to look into that cronjob that truncates the sessions table every night
15:26 seneca as I'm still registering about 23 sessions per minute
15:26 mbalmer ok, fields can come in any order, that complicates bits a bit.
15:28 cait you mean it makes it more... interesting
15:28 jcamins interesting?
15:29 mbalmer exactly ;)
15:29 jcamins mbalmer: I was trying to get wahanui to chime in.
15:29 mbalmer byte fiddling in C. and in the end I will have a nice Lua interface to SIP and Koha
15:29 mbalmer that's a bot, right?
15:29 jcamins Yup.
15:30 jcamins What exactly will be the use of a lua interface?
15:30 mbalmer our point of sale and self check systems are largely written in Lua(or rather, are scriptable in Lua)
15:32 mbalmer that will not be part of Koha, obviously.
15:32 mbalmer but Koha is my SIP testbed, that is how I came to Koha in the first place. By sheer accident we are now promoting Koha itself in Switzerland ;)
15:32 jcamins Ah.
15:33 jcamins Are you planning on releasing this as open source?
15:33 jcamins It seems like a C client like this would greatly simplify testing SIP.
15:33 mbalmer no plans for opensource yet. but the C client and Lua interface could possibly be released as opensource.
15:34 mbalmer it's a Unix library, linsip, and a lua module 'sip'. and maybe a command line tool 'sipctl'.
15:35 mbalmer s/linsip/libsip/
15:35 jcamins You should consider it.
15:36 mbalmer I have no objections.
15:36 mbalmer A SIP library is not competitive advantage for our product, it's how we use SIP that makes it unique, I guess.
15:37 mbalmer but the code is still very young, I only started today.
15:37 seneca Thanks for everyone's help!
16:08 Oak http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/is-google-making-us-stupid/6868/
16:09 jcamins They said that about the printing press, too.
16:12 Oak what do you mean? they said printing press will make us stupid?
16:13 jcamins Yup.
16:14 Oak how? :)
16:19 * jcamins didn't read the article just now, but I think that I read it before.
16:19 jcamins Oak: doomsayers claimed that people stopped thinking for themselves.
16:20 jcamins They also claimed it was the end of the manuscript, and the century after the introduction of the printing press was the high point in manuscript production.
16:20 Oak hmm.
16:20 * jcamins thinks pundits are always wrong.
16:45 jcamins Yay! git.biblibre.com is back!
16:46 jcamins I can sign off on bug 3216!
16:46 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3216 normal, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, frederic, Needs Signoff , UNIMARC author facets
16:46 cait yay!
17:21 jcamins bug 7700
17:21 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7700 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Cart's more details view shows identity numbers
17:24 cait bug 7671
17:24 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7671 major, P5 - low, ---, stephane.delaune, ASSIGNED , add a real primary key "id" in accountlines
17:24 jcamins But 7617, sorry.
17:25 jcamins *Bug 7617
17:25 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7617 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, NEW , Authority search results should optionally be sorted by system order
17:25 jcamins Though bug 7671 *is* a good one.
18:25 jcamins bug 6831
18:25 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6831 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, colin.campbell, Signed Off , Enhanced Workflow for adding analytical records
18:28 druthb o/
18:30 cait hiya ruth :)
18:30 jcamins o/
18:31 cait jcamins++
18:31 druthb jcamins++
18:31 druthb cait++
18:31 cait hmpf
18:31 druthb what?
18:33 * druthb got hmpfed, and doesn't know why.
18:33 druthb n meanie cait won't tell me *why*...
18:33 * cait is a lazy cait
18:33 cait don't deserve karma
18:56 mbalmer re
18:56 mbalmer today was a good day
18:57 * mbalmer tamed SIP
18:58 mbalmer and if absolutely needed, I think I can make my C SIP library open source under the GPL.
18:59 jcamins mbalmer: it's not that it's needed, it's that making it open source means that others might be able to make use of your work.
19:00 mbalmer I know, and if that leads to a better SIP server, I also profit.
19:00 jcamins Right.
19:02 mbalmer so maybe, oneday, who knows, it will be opensource ;)
19:05 jcamins unimarc?
19:05 wahanui well, unimarc is http://www.ifla.org/en/publications/unimarc-formats-and-related-documentation
19:06 cait thx jcamins :)
19:07 mbalmer jcamins, will you be in marseillle?
19:07 jcamins mbalmer: nope.
19:07 mbalmer ok
19:07 * cait still hopes he will be in scotland
19:08 jcamins cait: me too, though it's hard to see how.
19:08 jcamins :(
19:08 cait hmf :(
19:08 mbalmer I think we already booked flights for edinburgh
19:08 jcamins Ticket prices are outrageous... last time I was there, I could buy *two* round-trip tickets for the price of one ticket for the summer.
19:08 cait :(
19:43 * jcamins_away thinks "Liiibraariaaaaaannnnnnnssss iiiiiiiinnnnn spaaaaaaaace" every time you sign in.
19:45 * Space_Librarian walks out of her TARDIS and locks it.
19:46 * Space_Librarian looks at wizzyrea_away, making sure she's nowhere near the time machine.
19:46 * jcamins_away also pictures muppets in space suits carrying books. :)
19:46 Space_Librarian muppets?!
19:46 jcamins_away Space_Librarian: yes, isn't that the name of the movie? "Muppets in space"?
19:48 cait :)
19:48 * cait waves
19:48 Brooke kia ora
19:49 Space_Librarian don't know the movie...
19:50 * Space_Librarian is fighting some serious fires with Koha, lists, and expiring links.
19:53 jcamins_away Expiring links?
19:53 jcamins_away Space_Librarian: neither do I.
19:53 ibeardslee Space_Librarian: I have it at home, shall bring it in for next time you pop in to BoC
19:53 jcamins_away Told you there was a movie by that title! :D
19:54 ibeardslee .. actually Muppet From Space
19:54 ibeardslee Muppets in Space was the short segment
19:54 ibeardslee http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0158811/
19:55 Brooke I just remember Pigs in Space, but it could easily be a misremembrance
19:57 ibeardslee no, it was Pigs in Space
19:57 ibeardslee as the short segment
19:58 jcamins_away That might be the day that we move.
19:58 jcamins_away Or it might be a week before.
19:58 Brooke oh sweet
19:58 Brooke have fun moving
20:03 Brooke @later tell druthb remind me to tell you my macho gym story
20:03 huginn Brooke: The operation succeeded.
20:03 Space_Librarian jcamins_away: yes, expiring links/return to loging page, etc - depends on whether you're using IE/Chrome/Firefox
20:04 * Space_Librarian is still bemused by muppets
20:04 Brooke is it the timeout jiggermawhatsit
20:04 Brooke because before I set that to like a jillion
20:04 Brooke it was annoying
20:04 Brooke and I find Koha on anything but firefox pretty durn frustrating
20:04 Brooke so whip yer coworkers until they cooperate
20:09 cait @later tell magnuse - I need your help :) can you tell me if 773 is using the same fields subfields than marc21 does? :)
20:09 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
20:09 cait hi Brooke
20:09 Brooke hey cait :D
20:09 jcamins_away cait: it does.
20:09 cait I checked the 773 documentation
20:09 cait but does all content come from the same fields? was not sure about that
20:13 jcamins_away When I asked magnuse, he said it was close enough.
20:13 cait ok
20:13 cait I think it is quite close
20:14 cait there are additional subfields for language and country cods
20:14 Brooke half of MARC and cataloguing is close enough
20:14 cait but we don't use that subfields
20:14 * Brooke applies the Home Repair Rule to cataloguing.
20:14 Space_Librarian Brooke: how do you set the timeout?
20:14 jcamins_away Brooke: If you can do a bad job, do it, then the next owners will have to redo it?
20:15 Space_Librarian it's fine with internal nav, but people don't use the internal nav
20:15 jcamins_away Internal nav?
20:15 Brooke jcamins: as long as your half arsed jorb is better than the last half arsed jorb, things are marginally better
20:15 Brooke because it's never going to be perfect.
20:16 jcamins_away Heh.
20:17 Space_Librarian using the buttons in koha
20:17 jcamins_away Oh.
20:17 Space_Librarian if you're using the browser buttons things fall off
20:17 jcamins_away Got it.
20:18 jcamins_away There's nothing you can do to avoid that. If they hit back to go back past the login page, they'll lose their session.
20:18 Brooke Login>Administration>System Preferences > Login Options > Timeout
20:18 jcamins_away ^^ that will help a bit, though.
20:18 Brooke took me a sec to find it
20:18 Brooke because we've a boatload of preferences now
20:18 * Brooke gets back in the rocking chair on the porch.
20:18 jcamins_away If you teach them to log in first thing, then open a new window to do all their work in (and close the first one), that problem will go away.
20:19 jcamins_away How one teaches that without a weapon I'm not entirely sure. :(
20:19 Brooke you get Pippa to call by with 3 slices of cheese and a clicker.
20:19 Brooke pretty soon you have dancing staff.
20:21 * Space_Librarian goes to tinker.
20:27 Space_Librarian so. riddle me this, you fine people.
20:27 jcamins_away What happened to this batch of fudge?
20:28 * jcamins_away has *no* idea.
20:28 Space_Librarian It was replaced with a couple of strong porters
20:28 Space_Librarian ?
20:28 cait jcamins_away: you ate it all?
20:28 Space_Librarian :p
20:28 cait jcamins_away: my irish cream fudge?
20:28 Brooke what version of fudge are you on
20:28 Brooke we need specifics.
20:28 jcamins cait: no, but it's kind of peculiar.
20:29 Brooke is your platform gas or electric?
20:29 jcamins cait: it's seized up.
20:29 jcamins Gas.
20:29 Space_Librarian not cool
20:29 jcamins I've made lots of fudge here before.
20:29 Brooke (good because Electric is proprietary bs.)
20:29 jcamins Brooke: yeah, electric is awful.
20:29 jcamins I tried making fudge on electric a few times.
20:29 jcamins Always an absolute disaster.
20:29 jcamins Gas or wood is the way to go.
20:29 * Brooke cheats with chocolate and uses the microwave
20:30 Brooke wood is AWESOME but it is so freggin picky
20:30 mbalmer today was a cool day. got really far with sip.
20:30 Brooke you have to seduce wood into doing what you want, and when you succeed, naught beats it
20:30 Brooke way to go mbalmer
20:31 Brooke don't try and rescue seized chocolate, you're prolly gonna wanna just rip your hair out
20:31 Brooke if you absolutely must
20:31 Space_Librarian So. Once you login to the opac, there's a url to take you to the public lists (don't ask, this is just they way the want it). So you click on this link, and it askes you to login again. You do, and it takes you to the lists. That's cool. But everytime you want to go backto that url. It asks you to login. Not a timeout issue. What's with that?
20:31 Space_Librarian mmmm. chocolate
20:31 Brooke sometimes warm milk will let you get away with redrum
20:31 Space_Librarian sounds good right about now
20:31 Brooke or a wee bit of alcohol
20:31 Brooke like chambord
20:31 Brooke or grand marnier
20:31 Brooke summat ye'd wanna drink
20:31 jcamins Space_Librarian: the link is wrong.
20:31 jcamins Space_Librarian: what's the link?
20:31 wahanui hmmm... the link is wrong.
20:32 jcamins Hehe.
20:32 cait Space_Librarian: separate url's for staff and opac right?
20:32 cait you have to log in once for staff once for opac probably
20:32 jcamins Brooke: this is the weird thing... it's not the *chocolate* that's seized up.
20:32 jcamins It's the fudge.
20:32 Space_Librarian yep. I did all the lists in the opac though
20:32 jcamins It's not set, it's seized.
20:32 Brooke Sur La Table has guittard
20:32 Brooke it's the chocolate passing blame to the fudge dude
20:32 Brooke trust me.
20:32 Space_Librarian how did your fudge seize?
20:33 cait Space_Librarian: that's like it is then. if you are logged in for staff, you are not automatically also logged in into the opac
20:33 mbalmer sip is quite fast to my surprise
20:33 jcamins Brooke: I guess so, but it's really weird.
20:33 Brooke did the humidity in the area do summat weird?
20:33 Brooke or the pan?
20:33 jcamins Brooke: must've been the pan.
20:34 Brooke I <3 guittard because it's wonderful on the tastebuds and incredibly forgiving
20:34 jcamins Space_Librarian: it's stiff, but there is no setting going on. It's very chewy, and generally peculiar.
20:34 Brooke which is like a ridiculous combo
20:34 Brooke oh that's weird
20:34 Space_Librarian so it's almost like a toffee
20:34 Brooke that's like air got into the sugar
20:34 Space_Librarian that is weird
20:34 jcamins Yeah.
20:35 jcamins You see?
20:35 Brooke yes I do now
20:35 Space_Librarian that is weird
20:35 jcamins Weird.
20:35 Space_Librarian what did you do?
20:35 jcamins Space_Librarian: nothing particularly out of the ordinary.
20:35 Space_Librarian cait: it's not an issue for me, it's an issue for the patrons
20:35 Brooke did you beat the dickens out of it (I assume not since this woulda happened before...)
20:35 cait Space_Librarian: oh
20:35 Space_Librarian and they're not on the staff client
20:35 jcamins Brooke: I tried, after it had hit softball stage, but it was kind of... unwilling to be beaten.
20:36 cait Space_Librarian: sorry misunderstood
20:36 cait Space_Librarian: what does your link look like?
20:36 Brooke yeah if you beat the dickens out of it, there's your problem
20:36 Brooke because you basically treated the sugar crystalisation like you were making toffee or salt water candy
20:36 Space_Librarian cait: the url causing the problems?
20:37 Brooke is it just one URL or many?
20:37 Space_Librarian It's one.
20:38 Space_Librarian We have it in a nav box on the left, and in the centre box - it's identical. The left one doesn't cause mass destruction, whereas the centre one does. And it's exactly the same url
20:38 jcamins Space_Librarian: what's the link that requires a new login look like?
20:38 Brooke that's retarded.
20:38 jcamins Brooke: I tried that because it had seized. It was already seized when I tried that, and I figured I couldn't make it worse. ;)
20:38 jcamins Space_Librarian: yup.
20:39 Brooke bringing us back to don't try to save seized choc or you're gonna wanna tear yer hair out :P
20:40 jcamins Brooke: too late!
20:40 jcamins I came back and reported it was seized after I'd spent a while trying to save it. ;)
20:40 Brooke now you're just leading tech support on, jcamins :P
20:40 Brooke fudge is srs buisnass
20:40 Space_Librarian mmmm fudge
20:42 jcamins Well, this is toffee.
20:42 Brooke cooking > baking
20:42 jcamins Now that it's cooled down, it is remarkably toffee-like.
20:43 jcamins Looks like Marseille is getting toffee.
20:43 Brooke XD
20:43 jcamins I mean, I don't think that's quite how toffee is supposed to be made, but it works.
20:43 cait Marseille?
20:43 wahanui Marseille is a very contrasted city, some parts are gorgeous, other parts are... well... not so
20:43 jcamins cait: yes... I heard there's a hackfest there.
20:43 cait !
20:43 mbalmer I look forward to Koha and fish in marseille..
20:44 cait you are planning to send that toffee to marseille?
20:44 cait really?
20:44 jcamins cait: by way of oleonard.
20:44 jcamins Who doesn't know yet.
20:44 cait hmmm
20:44 cait seal it
20:44 * Brooke is jealous of Owen.
20:44 cait heh
20:44 * cait would still prefer jcamins to fudge
20:44 jcamins Heh.
20:44 jcamins :)
20:44 pastebot "Space_Librarian" at 202.27.78.250 pasted "OpacUserMain and OpacNav" (19 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/307
20:47 mbalmer edinburgh will be fun. cheap flights from .ch
20:47 jcamins Space_Librarian: just for fun, try changing the links to /cgi-bin/koha/opac-shelves.pl
20:48 rangi oh library.nzica.com
20:48 rangi if they logged in to that
20:48 rangi then the cookie is set to that, not nzica.mykoha.co.nz so that would prompt a new login
20:49 rangi it all depends what url you want ppl to use .. pick one .... :-)
20:50 Brooke both prompt logins for me
20:51 rangi they will
20:51 rangi opacpublic is off
20:51 rangi what im saying is
20:51 rangi if you login to one
20:51 rangi then hit a link to the other, you will get prompted to login again
20:51 rangi cookies are domain based
20:52 jcamins rangi: shouldn't changing all the links to /cgi-bin/koha/... fix that issue?
20:52 rangi yep
20:52 Space_Librarian rangi, what should I be doing to fix it?
20:52 rangi in the sysprefs
20:52 rangi opacnav
20:52 Space_Librarian yep
20:52 rangi and the main one
20:53 Space_Librarian yep
20:54 rangi in general relative links (without the http://site/) are better
20:54 rangi because if you ever change url .. you dont have to go changing all links
20:55 * Space_Librarian very, very confused
20:55 rangi what by?
20:55 cait Space_Librarian: follow jcamin's suggestion
20:55 cait make the link start with /cgi....
20:57 * jcamins bets he knows what went wrong with the fudge...
20:58 * cait likes toffee
20:58 jcamins I added the irish cream too early.
20:58 * Space_Librarian has done what the elders have suggested
20:58 jcamins I should have let it cool down some.
20:58 Space_Librarian jcamins: you curdled the irish cream?
20:59 Brooke stick with the chambord or grand marnier son
20:59 jcamins Space_Librarian: I'm thinking that might be it... it still tastes good, but I did notice that there was a lot more boiling going on than there usually is.
20:59 Brooke doh
21:00 jcamins This is a different kind of irish cream than I'm used to.
21:00 Brooke Bailey's or naught!
21:00 Space_Librarian Okay. so the cgi-bin seems to be working, but we're still getting this, if we push the back button in IE navigation... http://screencast.com/t/z7Kfi0KSlO8
21:00 jcamins Yeah, this was a gift.
21:00 Space_Librarian and what Brooke said!
21:00 Brooke ahhh that's the worst kind
21:00 rangi yes, IE is crap
21:00 Brooke it's like fruitcake
21:01 jcamins Space_Librarian: not much you can do about that.
21:01 rangi thats the browser doing that, there really is no way to stop that im afraid :(
21:01 jcamins rangi: can you make pages expire a little further in the future?
21:02 rangi its not the page expiry
21:02 rangi that page never expires
21:02 rangi its ie does not remember post data
21:02 jcamins Ah.
21:03 rangi we could make the login a get, but then we'd get hacked in 2 minutes and stabbed by every sysadmin in the world
21:03 jcamins Hehe.
21:03 ibeardslee starting with the ones on L2?
21:04 rangi especially those ones :)
21:04 mbalmer the new patron web page has a form to query username and password, and that shouls
21:04 mbalmer should set autocomplete to off
21:04 cait mbalmer: you could send a patch to make it do that :)
21:04 Space_Librarian I've tried to explain that, but IE is the preferred browser of 80% of our users
21:05 mbalmer cait, I will eventually.
21:05 mbalmer I took a note.
21:05 rangi yep, theres no way to stop it .. its a function of IE + requiring login
21:07 Space_Librarian gtk
21:07 Space_Librarian I'll explain that again
21:08 rangi however
21:08 rangi with the links being consistent
21:09 rangi and a long time out, ppl should have to login less, and the problem should manifest less
21:11 Space_Librarian here's hoping.
21:11 Space_Librarian I'm not looking forward to dealing with this when we have 11k people looking at the bulletin and wanting to login.
21:12 jcamins rangi: what about using whatever technique the old MARC view used to break the back button?
21:12 jcamins (just on IE, for the login page only)
21:13 rangi yeah you could do some js to disable the back button
21:18 cait Space_Librarian: is your library on the user's page in the wiki?
21:19 cait http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaUsers/Oceania
21:20 Space_Librarian I dunno if my predecessor set it up
21:22 cait ok
21:22 cait nice and shiny rebased analytics thingy
21:22 cait bug 6831 - waiting for testers!
21:22 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6831 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, colin.campbell, Signed Off , Enhanced Workflow for adding analytical records
21:23 * jcamins gets the hint. :P
21:24 cait heh :)
21:25 Space_Librarian cait: we're there now.
21:26 cait cool :)
21:26 jcamins Hm.
21:26 jcamins cait: doesn't your followup add UNIMARC?
21:27 cait hm i does
21:27 cait did I forget something? :(
21:28 jcamins This is quite peculiar.
21:29 jcamins I see it in the cataloging client, but it disappears when I save.
21:30 cait what disappears?
21:30 jcamins The entire 461 field.
21:30 cait oh!
21:30 cait pehraps there is one marc21 thing left somewhere
21:30 jcamins No...
21:31 jcamins This is *really* weird.
21:31 jcamins Oh, I get it.
21:31 jcamins Ignore me.
21:31 rangi jcamins: do you know where the js to disable the back button lives?
21:31 jcamins rangi: I have absolutely no idea. I always thought that was an unfortunate side effect of something else.
21:31 rangi hmm
21:32 rangi oh hey jcamins
21:32 rangi C4::Heading::UNIMARC
21:32 rangi does it have to do the db handle in the begin?
21:32 rangi could it do it in the new ?
21:32 jcamins cait: works fine with UNIMARC.
21:32 jcamins rangi: lemme check.
21:33 cait jcamins: sure?
21:33 rangi cause it means you cant do a simple use test (which 00-load.t) does without a db
21:33 rangi now
21:33 cait you scared me!
21:33 rangi which means make test fails
21:33 rangi when installing
21:33 jcamins rangi: it probably could be moved, yes.
21:33 jcamins But, wait.
21:34 jcamins I think I may have a follow up patch to remove the DB access entirely.
21:35 rangi that would be most excellent
21:35 jcamins Hmmm... no I do not.
21:36 rangi in the init or new sub would make sense .. and would be nicer when we move to plack too
21:36 jcamins I don't see any reason why the DB access couldn't be moved to the new.
21:36 rangi sweet :)
21:36 rangi http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Master_Packages/2/console
21:36 rangi scroll to the bottom
21:36 rangi i now have jenkins building packages too
21:36 rangi for master and 3.6.x
21:36 cait woot
21:36 rangi which catches any errors that break that
21:37 jcamins I think the reason it is not is that I was trying to imitate the way C4::Heading::MARC21 worked.
21:37 rangi ahhh
21:38 * Space_Librarian hunts down a quad-shot
21:38 rangi makes sense
21:38 jcamins Arguably we should have C4::Heading::MARC21 be using the database too
21:38 rangi *nod*
21:38 ibeardslee sounds like Space_Librarian is planning on heading to space
21:38 rangi as part of an init or new would be great for that too
21:38 rangi much more robust
21:39 jcamins Right, but I wasn't sure how to do it.
21:39 jcamins So I settled on "if it ain't broke, I'm not fixing it."
21:39 rangi fair enough :)
21:41 jcamins There are some subfield ordering issues, but this is pretty nice!
21:42 rangi wow bug 7648 is totally a 123
21:42 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7648 normal, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW , staff can make themselves superlibrarians
21:42 cait yeah
21:42 cait and not really a bug
21:42 rangi no
21:42 cait more an enh... and that is probably debatable
21:43 jcamins You know what I need?
21:43 jcamins I need git so to sign off and attach *all* patches.
21:44 jcamins This whole git rebase -i kc/master && commit --amend -s && rebase --continue, etc., is too much work. ;)
21:44 cait you could write a script - and share :)
21:53 cait jcamins++
21:55 eythian jcamins: I think a signoff will require a rebase as you're changing history, however it would be nice to have a "signoff" option in rebase -i
21:56 cait oh eythian
21:56 eythian and I saw your comment on the bug.
21:56 eythian You're right.
21:56 jcamins eythian: yeah, I know it requires a rebase. What I want is my git so macro to automatically go through *all* the patches.
21:56 jcamins Thanks.
21:56 cait :)
21:56 eythian I don't know where that thing went, I guess I incorrectly merged the patches or something.
21:57 * jcamins looks forward to a new patch.
21:57 jcamins Now that I understand what it does, I'm pretty jazzed about switching to PKI for my authentication.
21:58 eythian cool :) it's a bit of a learning hurdle, but once you've worked it out, it's pretty neat.
21:58 * eythian -> (hopefully short) meeting.
21:58 jcamins Of course, I still haven't worked out how to get certificates into the web browser.
22:03 jcamins cjh: don't forget when doing updatedatabase patches that you shouldn't put an actual number in the version string.
22:15 jcamins unimarc?
22:15 wahanui unimarc is http://www.ifla.org/en/publications/unimarc-formats-and-related-documentation
22:34 jcamins cait: I'm looking at bug 7700.
22:34 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7700 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Cart's more details view shows identity numbers
22:34 jcamins Where does $0 show up?
22:35 jcamins Wait... maybe I figured it out.
22:36 jcamins Yup.
22:36 jcamins git_so++
22:37 cait thx jcamins :)
22:39 jcamins I'd try bug 7421, but I don't really know that much about UNIMARC.
22:39 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7421 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, frederic, Needs Signoff , UNIMARC authorities DOM indexing mode
22:40 cait yeah
22:40 rangi oh i got kohagit tweeting again in the weekend too
22:40 cait yay :)
22:48 Space_Librarian Didn't somebody do awesome stuffs with a default pic for items without a cover in their opac?
22:48 * Space_Librarian is pondering
22:48 jcamins Space_Librarian: some did something like that.
22:48 jcamins *someone
22:49 Space_Librarian yes, I thought it may have been you. I wasn't sure.
22:49 Space_Librarian And it looked awesome
22:49 Space_Librarian Is it difficult?
22:49 * Space_Librarian wants to do the same thing
22:49 jcamins Actually, that wasn't intended to remind you it was me.
22:49 jcamins I had forgotten until cait pointed it out.
22:49 jcamins Very easy.
22:49 Space_Librarian lol
22:49 jcamins jquery library?
22:49 wahanui jquery library is, like, found at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/JQuery_Library
22:50 jcamins I got the original idea from bag, I think.
22:50 Space_Librarian *awesome*
22:50 jcamins Let me just find the script.
23:05 jcamins Space_Librarian: $('.no-image').css('background-image','url(bookplate.jpg)');
23:06 jcamins Sorry, got a bit distracted.
23:06 jcamins Well, very.
23:07 Space_Librarian thank you! that's fantastic. will play with it this arvo
23:07 Space_Librarian :D
23:08 jcamins Who thought that three apostrophes was a good idea to use for *bold*?
23:08 cait mediawiki?
23:08 wahanui mediawiki is not fun
23:09 cait right wahanui
23:09 jcamins Very true.
23:09 wahanui I know. That's why I said it.
23:09 Space_Librarian lol. I love the bot
23:10 eythian jcamins: thanks for getting bug 6199 sorted :)
23:10 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6199 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, robin, Signed Off , Allow bulkmarcimport to blank duplicate barcodes rather than skipping items
23:10 Space_Librarian @botsnack cookie
23:10 huginn Space_Librarian: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready
23:10 Space_Librarian I love all the bots
23:10 eythian wahanui: \I love the bot is <reply>BAD TOUCH!
23:10 wahanui OK, eythian.
23:11 jcamins eythian: you're welcome. I just didn't have a chance to sign off on it when I initially responded to Sophie.
23:12 eythian ah right
23:30 BobB hi eythian
23:35 eythian hello
23:44 mtj BobB: about now :)
23:45 BobB Hi Mason
23:45 mtj heya
23:45 BobB we had a week in Japan - VERY cool.
23:45 mtj have you really been to japan?
23:46 mtj wow
23:46 mtj what was the occasion?
23:46 mtj just a holiday?
23:46 BobB Yes, we went up to see friends who live in Tokyo. So we also went out to Hakuba and had a ski. It was great.
23:47 BobB We went to Happo One - one big mountain with lots of steeps. I was so proud of Irma - she cruised it!
23:48 BobB Only one day on the snow unfortunately. We were going to have more but the weather caved in. But it was great nonetheless. We have nothing like it in Oz.
23:49 BobB How are you, OK?
23:49 mtj i have heard about the indoor snow places in japan
23:49 mtj indoor snow and surf
23:49 mtj yep, all good over here
23:50 BobB I've heard about the indoor surf but didn't come across it. Nothing they do would surprise me. The place is awesome.
23:50 BobB Tokyo and Yokohama have 35 million people - more than Au plus NZ combined.
23:51 BobB mtj I've a couple of things to mention.
23:51 BobB Do you have a couple of minutes?
23:52 mtj yep, sure do
23:52 mtj we need to sort out a plan for the eesi stuff...
23:53 rangi w00t!!!
23:53 jcamins bug 7557
23:53 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7557 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Failed QA , Change hardcoded routing list note into a system preference
23:54 cait BobB: congrats :)
23:54 jcamins rangi: yeah, you'd better.
23:54 BobB So I just announced it. Bugger.
23:54 BobB Thanks Chris.
23:54 * cait forgot it already
23:55 * BobB humbly apologises
23:56 mtj bah, monday brain :/
23:56 eythian yep, I'll never tell anyone that the Library of Elbonia is switching to Unicorn
23:56 pastebot "jcamins" at 74.73.59.41 pasted "cait: change it like so and go to sleep!" (1 line) at http://paste.koha-community.org/308
23:56 cait lol
23:57 cait I did
23:57 cait still does not work!
23:58 jcamins Also, there's a typo.
23:58 jcamins Should be RoutingList not RoutlingList.
23:58 jcamins Oh.
23:58 jcamins Change the |...| to {...}
23:58 wahanui jcamins: that doesn't look right
23:58 rangi http://irc.koha-community.org/irclog/koha/2012-03-11#i_916523