IRC Logs

Time Nick Message
22:22 eythian pg is not universally faster (try running Drupal on it, for example.) Also, MySQL wasn't chosen so much as happened due to critical mass.
22:20 mbalmer one last word: when I see how random MySQL idioms are used, and wrongly so, I am totally convinced that MySQL was choosen for no real reason besides maybe speed advantages it once had over PostgreSQL. But that has changed a lot and PostgreSQL is nowadays ways ahead of MySQL.
22:17 eythian later
22:15 mbalmer and now I need to pull out and take a nap ;) cul!
22:15 eythian yep, also there's HTML in the backend modules. Lots of things like that that need to be cleaned.
22:14 mbalmer the DB layer and SQL use is really inconsistend and, at least partly, horrible.
22:13 mbalmer I would even say, much of the code is briliant when it comes to the "library" stuff, but less than poor when it comes to databases/SQL.
22:13 eythian hopefully things are better in the newer stuff :)
22:13 mbalmer oh yes, I am totally aware of that.
22:12 eythian also keep in mind that the older code didn't really have quite as much of a review process as it does now. There have been people of varying skill levels contributing over the years.
22:12 mbalmer and there are so many strange SQL uses, which are, well, strange ;)
22:11 mbalmer there are.
22:11 eythian where are there table locks? I hope we don't have those, but anything is possible.
22:10 mbalmer when I see stuff like locking whole tables and such, using non-standard SQL, I get the feeling that using the database was mor of a chore than of an art.
22:08 eythian it used to support pgsql, but there wasn't enough interest to keep it maintained.
22:07 mbalmer until the Koha community at large realizes that there are better databaes than MySQL ;)
22:06 mbalmer yes, I know ;)
22:06 eythian you're going to spend a lot of time merging.
22:05 mbalmer I want to use the advanced features of PostgreSQL.
22:05 mbalmer my branch ditches MySQL in favour of PostgreSQL. I don't believe in database abstraction layers.
22:05 eythian otherwise you end up having to reinvent the wheel, only this one is a slightly different colour.
22:04 mbalmer abstraction means only using the least common denominator.
22:04 eythian sure, but it's a lot of work to maintain. I think the effort is best put into abstracting the SQL away to work with all sorts of databases.
22:04 ibeardslee personally I think also one of the weaknesses
22:03 mbalmer eythian, if you don't like mysql, dropping it in favour or postgresql is the best thing you can do.
22:03 mbalmer that's the great advantage of opensource, right?
22:03 eythian I don't like mysql, but I don't thing dropping support for it is at all a good idea for the project.
22:03 mbalmer I created a pgsql branch, and maybe one day folks can try it out, and it will then maybe lead to a fork.
22:02 eythian speed is important however.
22:02 mbalmer but hey, let's not get into religion ;)
22:01 mbalmer MySQL is a crap database. Speed is not everything.
22:01 eythian although, memcache should take care of the worst of that anyway
22:01 eythian I'd be interested to see a performance comparison. I suspect that the MySQL query cache helps things a lot, and I don't think pgsql has an equivalent.
22:00 mbalmer no.
22:00 ibeardslee There is a lot of sense to be able to support more than two
22:00 eythian *pgsql
22:00 eythian err
21:59 mbalmer absolutely not.
21:59 eythian Some places can't/don't run mysql.
21:59 eythian it makes a lot of sense to support two.
21:59 mbalmer It makes no sense to support two databasesâ€¦ But that is my opinion, and I will ditch MySQL in favour of PostgreSQL.
21:59 eythian well, they'd be the first things to move to using DBIx::something.
21:58 mbalmer but then there are MySQL idioms being used that can not be rewritten portable. So at the Perl level, different statements have to be used, depending on whether MySQl or PostgreSQL is being used.
21:56 mbalmer like CURDATE() or CURRENT_DATE(), which can be written as "CAST(now() AS date)" which works on both DBs
21:56 mbalmer to many stupid MYSQLisms. some of them are easy to remove.
21:55 eythian but it almost can.
21:55 eythian yes, I know.
21:55 mbalmer eythian, Koha as it is will _NOT_ run on PostgreSQL.
21:55 eythian it is an only-go for many people.
21:55 eythian as it is, it's about 95% pg compatible.
21:54 mbalmer MySQL is a no go for us.
21:54 eythian they already exist.
21:54 ibeardslee surely it'd be better to put effort into building a database abstraction layer?
21:54 mbalmer I am not.
21:54 eythian I sure hope you're joking :)
21:53 mbalmer koha-pg or so.
21:52 mbalmer oh, I think we will just fork.
21:51 eythian yes. I don't think that'll ever fly, unfortunately.
21:49 mbalmer some folks will have different opinions.
21:49 mbalmer but that _is_ controversial.
21:49 mbalmer it makes no sense to support two databases. Koha should switch to PostgreSQL. Which is clearly the better database.
21:48 eythian we've been planning on abstracting the SQL layer away a bit, or at least the schema. This would make it easier.
21:48 mbalmer yes.
21:47 eythian Oh, with Koha. Yeah, postgres would be nice.
21:47 mbalmer it will, maybe, soon be. since I see only little sense in keeping MySQL compatability.
21:46 eythian It's never seemed like a controversial project to me :)
21:46 eythian postgres controversy?
21:43 mbalmer more postgresql news, and probably contoversy, tomorrow.
20:15 mbalmer are there any koha folks in paris?
20:00 mbalmer anyone still awake?
19:54 mbalmer re
17:24 cait enjoy :)
17:23 * magnus_afk wanders off to eat his bacalao...
17:17 huginn` indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 15.0ï¿½C (10:20 PM IST on December 18, 2011). Conditions: Mist. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 13.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
17:17 indradg @wunder kolkata
16:55 julian_m hello magnuse
16:55 magnuse hiya bigbrovar and julian_m
16:54 julian_m hi cait ;)
16:54 cait hi julian_m
16:52 cait ah
16:52 mbalmer_oao off-and-on
16:52 * cait_afk nick cait
16:52 cait_afk oao?
16:51 jcamins Right.
16:51 mbalmer_oao a the lime stuff?
16:51 jcamins Just the one.
16:51 jcamins Back before it was a fork.
16:51 mbalmer_oao ah. are there many such forks?
16:51 jcamins mbalmer_oao: they didn't. They purchased a fork of Koha.
16:50 mbalmer_oao jcamins, why did they fork Koha?
16:49 mbalmer_oao magnuse, also in portuguese it's the name of the dish
16:20 cait_afk ok
16:17 jcamins cait_afk: there won't be any news of any sort.
16:17 jcamins cait_afk: I'm friends with the librarian there.
16:17 magnuse yay
16:17 cait_afk still confused, where did you see it?
16:17 cait_afk ok
16:16 jcamins The staff is flying to India to learn how to use actual Koha.
16:16 jcamins cait_afk: they use a fork of Koha.
16:15 cait_afk now I am confused
16:15 jcamins A bit unfortunate that they don't use Koha, but at least they get a nice trip to India. :)
16:14 cait_afk oh!
16:14 jcamins cait_afk: the American University of Afghanistan's library staff is getting trained on Koha.
16:13 cait_afk huh?
16:13 jcamins Woohoo! AUAf Koha training is going to happen!
16:06 magnuse hiya druthb
16:06 magnuse and in the rest of the world it's the name of the fish...
16:06 druthb hi, magnuse! :D
16:06 cait_afk it looks yummy
16:06 magnuse dried and salted cod cooked with onions, tomatoes, potatoes etc
16:05 magnuse well, it's funny - in norway bacalao is the name of one dish
16:02 jcamins Portuguese dried and salted codfish?
16:01 * magnuse is making http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacalao
16:00 jcamins magnuse: it certainly is!
15:58 magnuse sounds nice, jcamins
15:55 jcamins Biscuits with cheddar and oregano are definitely the best kind of Sunday breakfast.
15:50 cait_afk heh
15:50 magnuse yay!
15:49 jcamins The biscuits are delicious.
15:48 huginn` mbalmer_oao: Error: No such location could be found.
15:48 mbalmer_oao @wunder koha
15:47 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -1.0ï¿½C (4:20 PM CET on December 18, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: -5.0ï¿½C. Windchill: -7.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 29.50 in 999 hPa (Steady).
15:47 magnuse @wunder boo
15:46 magnuse kia ora #koha
15:44 huginn` indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 16.0ï¿½C (8:50 PM IST on December 18, 2011). Conditions: Mist. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 13.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
15:44 indradg @wunder kolkata
15:43 druthb_away loading bibs now...gonna go stir up some breakfast! :D
15:40 jcamins Hooray!
15:37 druthb_away my script worked! got a buncha bibs all ready to load!
15:37 druthb_away wahoo!
15:30 * jcamins waits impatiently for them to be finished.
15:29 jcamins Mmm. Biscuits.
15:15 huginn` druthb: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 1.0ï¿½C (4:00 PM CET on December 18, 2011). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 80%. Dew Point: -1.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1015 hPa (Rising).
15:15 druthb @wunder konstanz
15:14 huginn` druthb: The current temperature in APRSWXNET Denison/Sherman TX US, Pottsboro, Texas is 8.9ï¿½C (9:03 AM CST on December 18, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 55%. Dew Point: 1.0ï¿½C. Windchill: 9.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 30.30 in 1026.0 hPa.
15:14 druthb @wunder 75076
15:10 mbalmer re from a nice walk on the snow..
15:08 francharb cait_afk, it's on wednesday and it's a public library and it's more a "question/answer day"
15:05 * druthb checks for other problems, before re-running that monster.
15:05 * druthb grumps...the script finished, but there is some sort of mapping goof---one lil tweak!
15:02 cait_afk what kind of library are you training tomorrow?
14:58 francharb ;)
14:58 cait_afk yep
14:57 francharb some koha testing for clients
14:57 * druthb thinks it'd be awesome to have francharb for a trainer. :)
14:57 francharb a training to prepare
14:57 cait_afk what are you doing here on a sunday francharb?
14:57 cait_afk watching a documentation and trying to gather some motivation for bugs
14:56 cait_afk not that hard :)
14:56 cait_afk heh
14:56 francharb hehe
14:56 druthb she keeps me sane. Hard job.
14:56 francharb ;)
14:56 francharb just chilling with koha crew?
14:56 francharb cait_afk, what do you do, right now?
14:56 druthb imma cranking data for a go-live. my new data-cranking script is working very nicely now.
14:55 cait_afk hm? :)
14:55 francharb working partners!! :)
14:55 francharb hi cait_afk
14:55 cait_afk :)
14:55 cait_afk hi francharb
14:54 francharb hi druthb
14:54 druthb bonjour, francharb
13:39 cait_afk so sometimes afk
13:38 cait_afk running around the apartment
13:38 cait_afk hehe
13:38 druthb hi, cait_who_isn't_really_afk, and jcamins_who_isn't_really_away.
13:38 jcamins_away cait_afk: not very far away from the keyboard!
13:38 cait_afk hi jcamins_away :)
13:37 jcamins_away \o
13:37 cait_afk hi druthb :)
13:37 druthb o/
12:18 mbalmer some of the SQL used is really weird (to say the least), e.g. 'SELECT DATE(CURDATE())" ...
12:10 cait_afk time to do some reading
12:09 cait_afk the wiki page is a good thing
12:09 cait_afk only half around today
11:52 mbalmer bug and wiki page set up.
11:41 cait http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines
11:40 cait it makes it hard for qa
11:40 cait people look at the patches to see what has been changed
11:40 cait yeah, but it's not good
11:34 mbalmer (visually, I mean)
11:34 mbalmer cait, my editor removes trailing whitespace automatically, as you may see these affected lines don't change
11:25 cait perhaps try fixing those in separate patches
11:25 cait mbalmer: fixing indentation and whitespace makes your patches hard to read
09:13 mbalmer hello Koha world!
07:07 cait hi rangi :)
07:06 rangi hi cait
07:00 cait good morning #koha