Time Nick Message 02:34 kmkale Namaskaar #koha 05:58 cait hi #koha 09:34 mbalmer 50% of sources checked, 16 mysqlisms so far... 09:50 mbalmer it would already help if proper standard sql was being used instead of mysql idioms. 09:54 cait I think that is a good goal 09:58 mbalmer step: change SQL so that it can run on both mysql and pgsql 09:58 wahanui mbalmer: that doesn't look right 09:59 mbalmer wahanui, I am now up to 30 such spots... 09:59 wahanui ...but mbalmer is currently going each and every file to find MySQLisms, then I can think about how to make it Pg/MySQL "compliant"... 10:03 mbalmer yes. 10:04 cait hm 10:04 cait i hope someone has told you that wahanui is our bot 10:04 cait :) 10:05 cait hm if you are checking all sql currently... you could perhaps also check that placeholders are properly used everywhere? 10:07 mbalmer I will go trhough the SQL at least two times. First to make it compatible, second to make it right where it's not 10:07 cait right? 10:07 mbalmer no, I did not know wahanui was a bot, but at least he is friendly ;) 10:08 cait most of the time 10:08 mbalmer as for right: I found a few places where sth could be achieved with a more elegant sql statement 10:08 mbalmer but it's a large codebase, it takes time to go through it. 10:16 cait yeah, it has grown a lot over the years 10:19 mbalmer quite some of the mysqlisms can be rewritten using standard SQL, so that's low hanging fruit 10:21 mbalmer I need to setup a wiki page with info on that. 10:25 cait I think that would be good 10:25 cait also help people to not make the same mistakes again 10:25 cait ok, have to leave, will be back later today 11:38 cait hey magnuse 11:38 cait waking up now? :) 12:44 jcamins_away Heh. magnuse understands sleeping in on weekends. :) 12:44 cait apparently :) 12:44 cait hi jared :) 12:45 jcamins_away Good morning. 12:50 jcamins Myshkin says hi. 12:52 * cait waves back at Myshkin 17:33 indradg server sizing for Koha? 17:34 indradg koha hardware requirement? 17:34 jcamins indradg: not sure wahanui has anything about that. 17:34 jcamins memory for koha? 17:34 indradg jcamins, ah well :) 17:35 indradg jcamins, kinda... i had proposed a config for a koha server... and now 17:36 indradg its come back to haunt me 17:36 francharb hi 17:36 wahanui bonjour, francharb 17:36 jcamins indradg: are you trying to figure out how large a server you need, or were you just wondering what wahanui had to say? 17:36 jcamins Uh-oh. What did you suggest? 18:26 druthb o/ 18:27 jcamins \o 18:27 cait hi druthb :) 18:28 druthb :D 19:06 jcamins Welcome back, indradg. 19:07 indradg jcamins, sorry was on phone... these were libs with typically 25k in collections each with about 500 - 1200 members, so i had placed a Intel Core 2 Duo E7600, 3.06 GHz with 2gigs of RAM as the server 19:07 indradg jcamins, thanks :) 19:08 jcamins indradg: I would've thought that would be plenty. 19:08 * druthb concurs; that actually sounds like overkill, to me. 19:08 jcamins I guess I would've thought wrong? 19:08 jcamins druthb: well, with that many patrons for such a small library, I can see some pretty heavy circ usage. 19:09 druthb Even if all of the members came in twice a day, you're still not looking at 10K transactions a day, jcamins. 19:09 indradg druthb, jcamins i had to factor another thing.. these are govt libs... and they wont be able to upgrade in next 4 years... so yeah overbuilt the boxes a bit 19:09 jcamins druthb: true. 19:10 indradg the server would additionally function as their web proxy with content filter and dhcp server for their 3 node LANs 19:10 druthb yeah, sounds like, and that's good. Should provide plenty of growth room, too, unless you put a teeny tiny hard drive on em 19:11 indradg plus offer web-dav shared folders 19:11 indradg the servers went with 320 GB SATA HDD 19:11 druthb for the Koha part, that should be puh-lenty. 19:11 indradg the boxes are essentially PC systems 19:11 druthb so what ended up being the choke-point? 19:12 jcamins druthb: I saw 5000-12000 members. 19:12 jcamins Just realized I added a zero. 19:12 druthb ;-) 19:13 indradg we did the rollout at 170 libraries... and now there is a new govt and want to know if there are any "koha documentation" as far as h/w sizing estimates are concerned 19:13 jcamins indradg: 170 libraries? Wow! 19:13 druthb ah-hah. so, not a technological sticking point, but a *political* one. 19:13 indradg i believe zebra can consume upto 500 MB ? jcamins druthb ? 19:13 indradg druthb, yep... precisely 19:13 jcamins In terms of RAM? 19:14 jcamins I've never seen Zebra hit the default maxmem limit. 19:14 jcamins And I think that's a lot lower. 19:14 druthb I've been meaning to do some math to correlate memory/disk vs koha size (transaction load, bib and borrower counts), but have not gotten that done. 19:14 indradg jcamins, yeah... i vaguely remember seeing something that zebra can take up to 500 MB or so 19:14 * druthb has a great long list of libraries to help provide data. 19:15 jcamins indradg: you're off by a zero. 19:15 rangi never seen it get about about 30meg 19:15 jcamins *50* MB. 19:15 indradg rangi, jcamins thankee! 19:15 jcamins Apparently my inability to read is contagious. ;) 19:16 jcamins indradg: in terms of disk space, though, Zebra can take a fairly large amount. 19:16 * druthb squees and waves to rangi 19:16 rangi heya druthb :) 19:16 jcamins rangi: how large is the largest Zebra DB you've worked with? 19:16 rangi 10 gig 19:16 rangi that was 3 million bibs 19:16 jcamins rangi: is that the space taken up by indexes, or the space taken up by the raw MARC data? 19:17 rangi indexes 19:17 rangi raw marc is well less than that 19:17 indradg i find this on the m/l archives... but dunno if he is talking about the system in general or zebra in particular - http://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-devel/2009-March/032032.html 19:18 jcamins Huh. I think the disk space requirements for Zebra indexes must not scale linearly. 19:18 jcamins indradg: he's talking about total RAM. 19:18 indradg hmm..k 19:18 jcamins I'd agree with that. 19:18 rangi yeah i dont see that 19:19 jcamins rangi: you don't think so? 19:19 jcamins rangi: I wouldn't want to run a production system with <512MB of RAM at this point. 19:19 rangi i thought you were talking zebra 19:19 rangi but no 19:19 druthb that's way conservative. I've got a DB with 300K+ bibs that doesn't take up more than 7 or 8 GB for the mysql data. 19:19 rangi 512 ram is ridiculous 19:19 rangi zebra would be fine with that much 19:19 rangi apache and mysql no 19:20 jcamins Ah. 19:20 jcamins Yeah, agreed. 19:20 jcamins With both points. 19:21 rangi apache is the ram hog 19:21 jcamins indradg: one point about the disk use for Zebra indexes: rangi is talking about the disk used by a fully-indexed database. If you're going to want the option of reindexing without totally taking down the system, you need to double the disk space requirement. 19:21 rangi if you dont set up your max connections and threads 19:22 rangi yeah but double 10 is still small 19:22 indradg i get tat 19:22 indradg that* 19:22 jcamins rangi: true. 19:22 jcamins rangi: unless you're on Rackspace. 19:22 rangi yeah 19:22 rangi cloud sux 19:23 jcamins EC2 is nice, but Rackspace... 19:23 * jcamins shudders 19:23 rangi nice until it goes down for 12 hours 19:23 rangi its only nice if you have dr 19:24 cait dr? 19:24 rangi disaster recovery 19:24 jcamins Disaster recovery. 19:24 rangi ask scls about that 19:25 indradg so do we have any docs on the wiki about tentative h/w sizing guidelines? i tried to search... didn't find any 19:25 rangi nope 19:25 jcamins indradg: I don't think so. 19:25 * jcamins encourages you to write one. :) 19:25 rangi because to do so, is usually not that useful 19:25 rangi its usually a how long is a piece of string 19:25 rangi question 19:26 * druthb notes that RFPs are usually chock-full of such useless questions. 19:26 jcamins rangi: unless some bureaucrat wants to check off a box saying that the document exists, in which case it doesn't matter, it just needs to be there for box checking. 19:27 rangi problem is, someone will take it seriously :) 19:27 * jcamins suggests a document staying "Hardware should be no less than is required, but no more than is necessary." 19:27 rangi there ya go 19:27 jcamins s/staying/saying/ 19:27 indradg well... for myself I do not need that doc... but these govt types are picking my brains... 19:28 rangi yup, write one, and put it on the wiki and refer to that :-) 19:28 * druthb suggests a wiki template tag that puts in "This document exists solely so that bureaucrats can check off boxes. don't take this seriously in the real world, ever." 19:28 rangi :-) 19:28 indradg druthb, ++ 19:29 rangi maybe slightly diplomatically worded 19:29 rangi 'This exists purely to satisfy RFP type requirements, please do your own research' 19:29 rangi type thing 19:29 druthb A tag at the bottom, maybe, that says, "if you're taking this seriously, you must not actually do this for a living?" 19:29 rangi heh 19:34 * jcamins added 300 words worth of footnotes. 19:36 jcamins Yikes. 19:37 cait sounds very academic :) 19:42 jcamins cait: I guess I need to rewrite the rest of it so the rest is as academic-sounding. :) 20:17 bag @wunder 93109 20:17 huginn` bag: The current temperature in K6LCM - Westside / Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 16.0�C (12:17 PM PST on December 17, 2011). 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