Time Nick Message 23:32 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: bug_6318: Always give predefined fields drop downs on label layout edit <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=d43aa87d35561266275d840fe890009d8a231772> 23:17 rangi cya 23:17 wizzyrea bbl 23:11 cait aw :) 23:09 wizzyrea i'll do my best to make you all proud ;) 23:09 rangi that was fast 23:08 cait so it will be morethan great :) 22:55 wizzyrea i've give this one several times before 22:55 cait you will do great 22:55 cait :) 22:55 cait oh 22:53 wizzyrea and that 22:53 rangi shes talking about security 22:52 wizzyrea 5.5 hour drive from lawrence 22:52 wizzyrea well the day before swkls tech day 22:51 wizzyrea teasing, it's southwest kansas library system tech day 22:51 wizzyrea that's classified maam. 22:51 cait wizzyrea: where are you that rangi asks if it's secure? 22:50 rangi :) 22:50 wizzyrea afaict 22:49 rangi :) 22:49 rangi is it all secure? 22:49 cait one word, explains everything 22:49 rangi ahh 22:49 wizzyrea arrived about an hour ago 22:49 cait book 22:49 wizzyrea :) 22:49 wizzyrea i am at my destination 22:49 rangi i thought u was travelling wizzyrea ? 22:49 wizzyrea it's so late for you! 22:48 wizzyrea cait! 22:48 cait biblibre++ 20:56 hdl thanks anyway 20:54 Brooke hardball! 20:50 rangi yep did that already ;) 20:50 hdl biblibre++ then 20:50 hdl oh... thanks. 20:47 rangi http://t.co/PjaknIRB 20:46 wahanui bonjour, hdl 20:46 hdl hi 20:46 hdl rangi: why ? 20:46 Brooke hdl++ 20:45 rangi hdl++ 20:41 Brooke mmm good on them. biblibre++ 20:28 rangi biblibre++ 20:28 rangi http://drupal.biblibre.com/en/blog/entry/biblibre-social-enterprise-and-responsible-enterprise 20:00 * oleonard splits 19:53 rangi heh 19:53 * oleonard is glad he didn't take Josh's advice on that one 19:53 oleonard Amen to that rangi 19:52 libsysguy im ok with that 19:52 rangi at least its not plone, is the consensus :) 19:52 cait perhaps in 2 weeks? 19:52 cait with feature freeze pending 19:52 cait next week might not be good 19:52 rangi still start new sites on drupal, for certain types of sites anyway 19:52 cait we forgot time of nextmeeting 19:51 oleonard rangi: Does Catalyst still start new sites on Drupal or do they have a new preferred system? 19:51 Brooke it is unpossible to derail an open source conversation. They are not on track by default. ;) 19:51 sekjal and I've still have some fun intellectual problems to solve involving undoing patron imports 19:51 rangi and next time I wont derail the discussion Hehe 19:51 huginn Log: http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-09-15-18.22.log.html 19:51 huginn Minutes (text): http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-09-15-18.22.txt 19:51 huginn Minutes: http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-09-15-18.22.html 19:51 huginn Meeting ended Thu Sep 15 19:50:35 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 19:51 Brooke #endmeeting 19:51 rangi catalyst has a lot, im just glad I dont have to maintain them 19:50 sekjal I'm fried 19:50 sekjal cait: agreed 19:50 cait so perhaps we should end meeting and start with trigger talk/modules next time? 19:50 libsysguy i mean :-D 19:50 cait ok 19:50 * cait glares 19:50 cait he is using that smiley again 19:49 cait oh 19:49 * libsysguy libsysguys site is based on drupal :'( 19:49 sekjal bye, slef 19:49 slef ttyl - remember to endmeeting, someone 19:49 slef the co-op does too. We almost have no drupal sites left now. 19:48 rangi im pretty sure the catalyst drupal team (all 10 of them) just sit around swearing about plugins 19:48 sekjal I'm all for making Koha pluggable, but I think that's outside the scope of this particular project 19:48 * cait can't follow 19:48 slef oleonard: danger money, yeah! 19:47 Brooke you are forgiven, my son. 19:47 slef father forgive me 19:47 slef and probably have 19:47 slef oh I could 19:47 rangi couldn't do worse :) 19:47 slef rangi: replace function calls, not just have function calls that defer to other function calls 19:47 oleonard slef would never pitch something written in PHP 19:47 slef rangi: I'm hoping to do better. 19:46 * rangi runs screaming 19:46 rangi slef is pitching drupal 19:46 sekjal plugin support 19:46 sekjal I think I see 19:46 rangi oh noes 19:46 slef patching core is no fun... we have a chance to avoid it here :) 19:46 sekjal having a hard time grasping ideas 19:45 sekjal sorry, I think my head is getting all fuzzy 19:45 sekjal then write a patch to fix it so it does... (optionally controlled by a syspref) 19:45 slef (for example) 19:45 slef sekjal: because Koha::Notices::SendCheckinNotice doesn't check the message log before deciding whether to send a notice. 19:44 sekjal slef: why would you want to? 19:44 slef sekjal: so what would I do to get LocalLibrary::Notices::SendCheckinNotice run instead? 19:43 cait the one defined in our table weith borrowercategory library and itemtype? 19:43 sekjal slef: right, sorry, Koha::Notices::SendCheckinNotice 19:42 slef sorry, C4::Circulation::SendCheckinNotice 19:42 slef yeah but what SendCheckinNotice? C4::SendCheckinNotice or LocalLibrary::SendCheckinNotice? 19:41 slef #idea something like eventid int, event varchar(16), function text, template_id int references templates.templateid, report_id references reports.reportid 19:41 sekjal when an item is checked in, the CHECKIN event occurs, and SendCheckinNotice($itemnumber) is called 19:40 slef because then how do you replace events? 19:40 sekjal #idea instead of functions in the database table, why not functions directly in the event itself? 19:40 libsysguy Well i basically missed the meeting so I have no objections to whatever 19:39 cait I am not feeling too well myself tonight - might be getting a cold 19:39 slef I'm not sure when I'm leaving but it will be soon and sudden 19:39 cait and perhaps meet again in one week or 2? 19:39 cait to have something to start with next time? 19:38 Brooke he's not leaving, he's passing the gavel, yes? 19:38 cait can someone put down our structures? 19:38 libsysguy bye slef...thanks 19:38 cait perhaps we need to close the meeting soon 19:38 cait bye slef 19:38 slef not that I've been doing much for the last few minutes ;) 19:38 slef ok, sorry folks, I resign the chair 19:37 slef sekjal: can you fix my health too please? 19:37 rangi yep port and equally important clean up what is now deprecated 19:36 libsysguy and there frequency structure 19:36 sekjal no regressions allowed 19:36 libsysguy oh yes...i keep forgetting that 19:36 sekjal seamlessly 19:36 sekjal whatever database structure changes we wind up making, we have to be able to port over everyone's existing notices into the new structures 19:35 rangi then cutover when done 19:35 sekjal oh, and remember: 19:35 rangi in the Koha:: namespace 19:35 Brooke sekjal++ 19:35 rangi id start again 19:35 cait the messaging tables are quite a bit complicated, but could be extended I guess 19:35 libsysguy ^^ 19:34 * sekjal just needs to be exorbitantly wealthy, so he can fly everyone interested in working on this to the same location, and provide whiteboards, snacks/beer and comfy sofas 19:34 cait what we are talking abou tnow will kill existing structures 19:34 slef Or brain even. 19:33 slef rangi: what's the right way to extend core actions? My brian isn't working just now. 19:33 rangi Hehe nope but its not 3.6 so im low on caring :) 19:33 cait are we that bad? 19:33 wahanui Brooke: I forgot sep 19:33 Brooke wahanui forget SEP 19:33 rangi someone elses problem 19:33 wahanui SEP is probably similar daylight to March. 19:33 cait SEP? 19:32 * rangi is happy this is SEP 19:32 cait for patrons 19:32 cait I think we have to rethink the way message preferences work 19:32 cait but perhaps that's ok 19:32 cait he is hiding 19:32 slef rangi: c'mon, are you horrified yet? 19:31 slef sekjal: I'm seeing function as an arbitrary something like C4::Notification::SendOverdueToPatron 19:31 cait when setting up things i mean 19:31 cait but that also would make a lot of repeated entries 19:31 sekjal and message format, taken from patron preferences 19:31 sekjal and message type, of course 19:30 cait hmm 19:30 sekjal need itemtype/patroncategory/branchcode (maybe) 19:30 sekjal well, choosing which message template to retrieve doesn't involve passing keys 19:30 * slef can and is laughing. Is that wrong? 19:30 * Brooke can't help but picture teh angry Patrons. 19:30 Brooke excellent :) 19:29 slef Brooke: if the outgoing messages are being logged in koha, a sending action could check the log to make sure it isn't sending too often. 19:28 cait ah 19:28 slef sekjal: yeah, clarity is not my strong point right now. 19:28 sekjal took a second 19:28 sekjal slef: ah, I'm seeing it, now 19:27 slef sekjal: by having the event say what function fuels it. See above. Maybe add a column for report_id if you want to use the reports table? 19:26 slef I found a different one in the cupboard. All is well 19:26 cait not sure about slefs security concerns though 19:26 cait sounds ok to me so far 19:26 cait hm 19:25 cait let me reread 19:25 libsysguy slef refridgerator 19:25 cait sekjal: I am not sure I can follow all that 19:25 cait ... sorry 19:25 cait bed 19:25 cait check under the bad? 19:25 rangi in the couch? 19:24 slef rangi: where's my microUSB cable hiding? 19:24 sekjal how could we pass the right keys to an arbitrary notice.... hmmmm...... 19:24 Brooke Kei te pehea koe? 19:24 cait morning rangi 19:24 Brooke morena 19:23 rangi morning 19:23 sekjal right now, steps a), b) and possibly c) are done each time a message event happens 19:23 slef at very least, function would need whitelisting 19:22 slef I'm sure that's a security disaster waiting to happen. 19:22 slef event_id int, event varchar(16), function text, template_id int references templates.template_id 19:21 sekjal c) adding the completed notice to the message_queue 19:21 Brooke is there summat clever y'all can do to prevent someone from being sent a message too often within a certain timeframe? Like an array that checks v chron or summat? 19:21 sekjal b) passing the appropriate primary keys for the contextually-correct objects 19:21 sekjal that means a) choosing the right template, based on our rules 19:20 sekjal well, scheduled or event based should probably both call the same subroutine to populate the message template with real data 19:20 cait the scheduled triggers (I should clarify this) 19:20 cait sekjal: do you have a structure in mind for the triggers? 19:19 cait I think this is good so far 19:19 cait only wanted to get that sorted in :) 19:19 cait ok 19:19 sekjal in a way 19:19 sekjal slef: well.... yeah 19:19 * slef runs 19:19 slef sekjal: heh. A fine is a type of message. 19:18 libsysguy looks like i came back just in time 19:18 slef I think book dueness events are just strange events, triggered by another event (a search triggered by the queuerun or daily event which looks for books going that much due) 19:18 libsysguy uh oh 19:18 sekjal much like it 19:18 sekjal this is much like the fines discussion earlier today, actually 19:17 libsysguy i had to take care of something 19:17 libsysguy sorry guys for going silent 19:17 sekjal we'd just need some thing to cause those events (cron, daemon, etc) 19:17 sekjal slef: yes 19:16 slef could scheduled be just events (queuerun,hourly,dayhour,nighthour,...)? 19:16 Brooke then > collection over X $ 19:16 sekjal the trigger is "our cronjob ran to see what's overdue, and here're the messages" 19:16 Brooke end of month accounting might nag yet again. 19:16 Brooke actual overdue triggers a notice 19:16 Brooke should be pre overdue triggers notice 19:16 cait ok 19:16 sekjal scheduled at this point 19:15 Brooke which is tricky 19:15 Brooke both 19:15 cait the event is book gets overdue - but it's more a time based thing probably 19:15 cait overdues - event or scheduled? 19:15 sekjal and scheduled 19:15 sekjal event-based (checkin, checkout, hold placed, hold confirmed, etc) 19:15 cait can we get that into 1 additional table? or do we need another structure? 19:15 sekjal right, we've got two kinds of message triggers 19:15 cait or predues 19:14 cait like overdues 19:14 cait but we need other things with more options 19:14 cait like for holds 19:14 cait now, we will have things where triggers are hardcoded 19:14 cait so we have that mapped out now 19:14 cait ok 19:14 sekjal very necessary 19:14 sekjal those are free text and 3NF design bits, respectively 19:13 cait or? 19:13 cait of course 19:13 cait and a pk 19:13 sekjal cait: yes 19:13 cait sekjal: the table will also need subject and perhaps description 19:13 * slef just checks the current source 19:13 cait no modules 19:13 cait so voting to go for the simpler version now 19:13 slef By the looks of the design, I think it makes sense to relegate them to headings in the messages list. 19:12 cait slef: for the messages we have spoken about - I think no 19:12 sekjal I'm proposing getting rid of modules 19:12 slef please stop using type or I'll get confused again... so the question is: can the same message appear in multiple modules? 19:12 sekjal every overdue notice will have access to the same fields 19:11 sekjal message type informs the available database fields for the message template 19:11 sekjal yeah, that's how we originally labeled them last meeting 19:10 slef sekjal: those seem to be called messages in the new RFC. 19:10 sekjal and formats (email-plain, email-HTML, print, SMS, etc) 19:10 cait Brooke: you can't preview without giving it a borrower or something - I think it's not really necessary 19:10 * slef has gin now (it's 8pm here), so may be more easily confused than usual. 19:09 sekjal have message types (overdue, checkin, predue, holds place, etc) 19:09 sekjal message templates 19:09 sekjal sorry, slef 19:09 slef let's keep the jargon straight please people! ;-) 19:09 Brooke do we want a preview box someplace so we can see what all will be pulled? 19:09 slef I thought type was delivery type? 19:08 cait and choose the fields 19:08 cait but type would already indicate the module 19:08 sekjal and that's what determines what tokens/variables/database fields you can put into the template 19:08 sekjal slef: I mean, in the Notices editor, there is a dropdown to select Module 19:07 slef sekjal: it could be an email scheduled, or a screen notice triggered on checkout and checkin, couldn't it? 19:07 cait or prone to false inputs 19:06 cait but might make it easier to organize 19:06 sekjal can an overdue notice be anything but a Circulation module notice? 19:06 cait perhaps not necessary 19:06 cait oh 19:06 slef why no sense? 19:06 cait why not unique? 19:06 slef Why not? 19:06 cait as long as message type is not unique 19:06 cait perhaps not 19:06 cait hm 19:05 sekjal phrase another way: does it make sense to have message type and 'module' as separate things? 19:05 cait from the beginning 19:05 cait and consistent this time plz 19:05 cait yes 19:04 sekjal each message type should pull in a specific set of usable variables? 19:04 slef We've also a structure for how we get what to put into the templates. So any other structures we need? 19:04 * cait nods 19:04 sekjal that 19:04 sekjal is it acceptable to say 19:03 sekjal I doubt we'll come out of this meeting with a complete roadmap, but a few steps closer is acceptable to me 19:03 slef sure 19:03 * Brooke nods. 19:03 cait and be aware of what we want it to do late to not make it hard to enhance 19:02 cait and then making small sets to be developed as patches? 19:02 cait I think talking about structures is first 19:02 cait not yet 19:02 cait no 19:02 slef So what are the phases? Is that written anywhere yet? 19:01 slef oh yeah, it's worth mentioning... just I've 1001 questions on it which probably don't need asking just now 19:01 cait because koha has already very complicated structures in place for delivery types and messaging 19:01 cait that will kill a lot of the tables in there right now 19:01 sekjal slef: I don't know 19:01 cait so we have a desired structure for templates now 19:01 cait ok 19:01 slef sekjal: do you think this would still work if we move to DBIx or whatever it's called? 19:01 Brooke I think it's important to honour what we want while we move on the stuff y'all need NAO 19:00 Brooke a lot of this is enhancement and phased 19:00 cait but still something I would really love to see 19:00 cait pehaps a phase 2 thing yes... 19:00 slef I think this is another enhancement for later? 19:00 cait but it would need a way to make clear which pk is to be used... 19:00 cait to 19:00 cait using sql functions,not dpeenidng on the system to do it the way I want it too 18:59 sekjal slef: the template would be called with whatever key parameters make sense in it's context 18:59 cait i could make it sum things 18:59 cait for example fines 18:59 cait sekjal: I kind of like the idea to make it more flexible 18:59 Brooke default features++ 18:59 cait some kind of primary key , yes 18:59 sekjal Brooke: we'd include default reports that include all the tokens we include now 18:58 slef sekjal: how would the SQL query work? Wouldn't that need its own placeholders, which would vary by which module it's in, or at least which type of object it's working on? 18:58 Brooke but is incredibly hostile for other types, if I'm grokin' ye 18:58 Brooke that's okay for advanced users 18:57 * Brooke pukes. 18:57 sekjal and that SQL lived in a Report 18:57 sekjal you specify an SQL query to per message type to get you the variables you want? 18:56 sekjal instead 18:56 sekjal what about 18:56 sekjal and that gives you access to various tables 18:56 cait hm 18:56 cait where format also indicates the delivery type 18:56 sekjal so, right now, when creating a new message, you specific what Module it's in 18:56 cait so type format 18:56 cait ok 18:55 slef done 18:55 cait thx 18:55 slef removing 18:55 cait can you? 18:55 slef cait: you remove or shall I? 18:55 cait ok 18:55 slef cait: :( typewithme eats my battery. 18:55 slef cait: oh yeah. I thought I deleted that 18:54 cait slef: sms is possible already 18:54 Brooke it's on the thinger 18:54 cait slef: we could use the typewithme and put that on the wiki later? 18:53 sekjal all Overdues would have access to the same variables 18:53 slef OK, I've tried to update http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Messaging_rewrite_RFC#Meeting_Document_from_8_September_2011 and put *s on new types and formats. Did I get it right? 18:53 sekjal that would be a function of "type" 18:53 cait how do we indicate which placeholders can be used in a template? 18:53 cait if we put how something is triggered into the rules 18:52 libsysguy jk 18:52 cait oh 18:52 cait sekjal: perhaps even a code for the hardcoded things? like module now 18:52 libsysguy aww I wanted all text everyhing :'( 18:52 sekjal use rules elsewhere 18:52 Brooke nicer guis++ 18:52 sekjal makes sense 18:52 sekjal so just format and type 18:52 cait libsysguy: similar, yes, but perhaps with a nicer gui :) 18:51 cait keep template characteristics specific to the text 18:51 libsysguy so like the circ rules 18:51 cait like have one overdue to sent to all borrowers, but different overdues for professors and students 18:51 sekjal good point 18:50 cait for different combinatons 18:50 cait so you can reuse a template 18:50 * Brooke nods. 18:50 cait from the templates 18:50 cait have the rules apart 18:50 cait i was thinking 18:50 cait hm 18:49 libsysguy yes ^^ 18:49 sekjal oh, and type 18:49 sekjal okay: so message templates would have major characteristics: itemtype, branchcode, patron category, format 18:48 cait I will mark them now for oyu 18:48 cait we didn't get far tidying it up 18:48 Brooke please do, and double check the wiki I know I edited some out accidentally. 18:48 cait slef: correct 18:48 slef OK with everyone if I take a run through those? 18:48 slef So am I right in thinking the later sections don't have *s? 18:47 Brooke *nod* and theoretically call the printer on the carpet. 18:46 sekjal choice of format would inform the editor on any restrictions/tools to include 18:46 sekjal you'd have the options for format: "email-plain, email-HTML, print (HTML), SMS, RSS" 18:45 sekjal so, when in the notices editor creating a new notice: 18:45 slef Brooke: ok, I see that line now. That wasn't clear to me on first reading. 18:45 cait having html and plain mail? 18:44 slef it's a chaos 18:44 cait sekjal: hm, is this so bad? 18:44 Oak it's a meeting. will shut up now 18:44 Oak oops 18:44 * Brooke hugs Oak. 18:44 slef hi Oak. Welcome to the meeting. #info if you want to be noted in the minutes. 18:44 Oak loud hello to Brooke 18:44 sekjal we have two email delivery methods: plain, and HTML 18:44 cait new 18:44 sekjal unless 18:44 sekjal if we're including a flag or an option, we're losing any benefits of merging format and delivery method 18:44 Brooke line 50 says new 18:43 cait see my note below ;) 18:43 slef cait / Brooke: so are * the new ones or the current ones? 18:43 libsysguy gotcha 18:43 Oak hello #koha 18:43 Oak hello cait 18:43 slef libsysguy: which they shouldn't, because that's bad for accessibility too (red-green colour-blind for example) 18:43 cait the format? 18:43 cait but why not have a flag on the notice to indicate? 18:43 cait hi Oak 18:43 cait yep 18:43 slef libsysguy: people screw up and use only colour or styling to indicate things. 18:43 cait libsysguy: you can't do bold and such tihngs in plain, might get confusing 18:43 Brooke the new ones are * on the initial document 18:42 libsysguy maybe im just being naive about it 18:42 libsysguy why not enable the wysiwyg editor by default...if its plain text just render it as such? 18:42 cait slef: I had marked soem of them with a * 18:42 slef Would someone go through http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Messaging_rewrite_RFC and bold which ones already exist? I'm happy to take a first crack, but I'll probably miss some. 18:42 sekjal libsysguy: WYSIWYG editor 18:41 Brooke for a test, we've to ensure that the email address in reply to is the right one in parameters. 18:41 libsysguy from a design perspective whats the difference between html and plain 18:41 cait like give it a subject, give it an email address to be sent from and check html or not? 18:40 slef I think that's fine for an option, but it's plain at the mo, isn't it? 18:40 Brooke and just link stuff. 18:40 Brooke I can always be sneaky 18:40 Brooke if we default to plain 18:40 cait couldn't we make it an option in the notice templates? 18:40 Brooke although 18:40 cait Brooke: really not so sure about that 18:40 Brooke for my flash fundraising stuff, might want html. 18:40 Brooke I'd want plain 18:40 Brooke for my overdue notices 18:40 Brooke not even that 18:40 Brooke no 18:40 cait hm 18:40 sekjal all emails are plain, or all emails are HTML, per install? 18:40 cait decide about? 18:40 Brooke I think this is a pizza topping 18:40 sekjal like, system preference level? 18:40 Brooke no 18:39 sekjal do we think this is something people would want to decide on globally? 18:39 cait so html is a good way to go for that 18:39 * Brooke nods. 18:39 cait logos, footer, header 18:39 cait print should have options to add corporate design 18:39 cait but email makes sense in plain and html (although I always prefere plain) 18:39 Brooke it'd have to print nicely 18:39 Brooke hmmm 18:39 cait def 18:39 sekjal though I'd lean more on HTML for print 18:39 sekjal same with print 18:38 sekjal ^^ 18:38 cait what about email? should be plan or html 18:38 sekjal SMS is always shortmessage 18:38 sekjal since RSS is always RSS/XML 18:38 cait hm 18:38 sekjal we could save ourselves some complexity, and fuse message format with delivery method 18:37 Brooke rank by patron preference, perhaps? 18:37 cait no mobile numbe > send email > no email > create print 18:37 sekjal the formats so far are HTML, plaintext, RSS/XML, and short-message 18:37 Brooke cait++ 18:36 cait to make it more complicated we might want to fall back from one to the other 18:36 sekjal each deliver method can support 1 or more message formats 18:36 sekjal messages can also be delivered in several ways: print, email, SMS, RSS, etc 18:35 sekjal {itemtype, branchcode,patroncategory} 18:35 sekjal and we want to be able to have different templates for those messages depending on several factors 18:35 sekjal we've got the various kinds of messages we want to send (overdue, due, hold placed, claim, etc etc) 18:34 slef #topic Planning the steps to implement this 18:33 sekjal okay, so we've got some key pieces of the puzzle to link together 18:33 Brooke I was gonna link them, and initially both were on the same page, but like I said, stuff got moved. 18:32 * Brooke nods. 18:32 cait i think the second should have most points from the first 18:32 cait correct 18:32 libsysguy yes 18:32 slef So which came first? The Notifications RFC, then the Messaging_rewrite_RFC? 18:31 slef magnus_away: we can seeeeee you 18:31 slef there I've showed you mine, now you show me yours 18:30 slef [off] http://media.rightmove.co.uk/77k/76325/19937445/76325_APW0418_IMG_06_0000_max_620x414.JPG 18:30 * libsysguy joins cait's chat....webcam webcam... 18:30 * cait chants webcam webcam.. 18:30 slef #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Messaging_rewrite_RFC 18:29 sekjal I could turn on my webcam, but... then you'd see the rest of my horrible office 18:29 libsysguy or we could huddle in G+ and watch sekjal on his webcam 18:29 cait ;) 18:29 cait I know what you mean,might need new glasses 18:29 libsysguy because I am having trouble seeing the one on your desk 18:29 slef http://imgur.com/ or similar? 18:29 cait photo... 18:29 cait make us a phoot? 18:29 sekjal yes 18:29 cait hm 18:29 libsysguy haha you need one of those smartboards 18:28 sekjal I'm drawing it on the one on my wall behind my desk 18:28 libsysguy did you say you had that on a whiteboard sekjal? 18:28 sekjal I'm looking at data structure first 18:28 slef that seems like a good idea 18:27 libsysguy so in this meeting we are supposed to start planning the steps right? 18:27 Brooke http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Messaging_rewrite_RFC 18:27 slef Brooke: I think I'm compelled to say about all mediawiki problems: I told you so. ;-) 18:27 cait the typewithme is from our first meeting 18:27 cait that's the document that was started from the mailing list thread 18:27 slef is what I saw 18:27 Brooke but really, someone should fix the forkin wiki 18:26 slef #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Notifications_RFC 18:26 Brooke so chris moved stuff 18:26 Brooke it kept handling things like i was editing a template 18:26 libsysguy but the other day I checked and it was gone 18:26 Brooke the wiki was revolting 18:26 libsysguy it was there 18:26 cait I thought it was on the wiki too, but can't find it right now 18:26 Brooke #link http://typewith.me/3gYf6ozqf4 18:25 libsysguy right the link to the collaboration document 18:25 slef it's not loading for me... I'm just going to kick browser permissions to try to see it... 18:25 slef so sekjal has pasted a link to something 18:25 slef #topic What we want to cover this meeting 18:24 slef ok, late entrants can intro themselves later 18:24 cait #info Katrin Fischer 18:24 slef #info MJ Ray, software.coop, delaying dinner because this stuff's important, you know? 18:24 cait hm 18:24 libsysguy #info Elliott Davis, University of Texas at Tyler, Developer 18:23 sekjal #info Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions, Koha 3.6 QA Manager 18:23 slef please introduce yourself with #info if you want to be recorded 18:23 slef #topic Introductions 18:23 sekjal #info last meeting's document found at: http://typewith.me/3gYf6ozqf4 18:23 cait probably need more of a chat this time - but we could still use the tool 18:23 slef ok, is that what's on the wiki? 18:23 cait not sure we can make that work agai nfor us 18:22 huginn Current chairs: Brooke cait slef 18:22 slef #chair cait Brooke 18:22 cait altogether 18:22 cait last time we created the document 18:22 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:22 huginn Meeting started Thu Sep 15 18:22:02 2011 UTC. The chair is slef. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:22 slef #startmeeting 18:22 cait not yet 18:22 cait me too 18:22 slef Do we have an agenda, time limits or something like? 18:22 libsysguy cool with me 18:22 slef ok, shall I start as chair and drop cait or Brooke in it if I leave? 18:22 sekjal and I think a diagram would be the best way to show the relationships between them 18:21 slef pretty sure it doesn't ;-) 18:21 sekjal we've got several pieces identified from last meeting 18:21 libsysguy works pretty well 18:21 libsysguy we use lync here with whiteoard sharing 18:21 Brooke slef: no pictahs 18:20 slef sekjal: http://whiteboard.debian.net/ 18:20 cait there are programs for that, you know 18:20 libsysguy that would be cool 18:20 Brooke twitpic! 18:20 slef hrm, not sure I should chair... can't promise I won't go to dinner 18:19 * sekjal wishes he could share his dry erase board live with everyone 18:19 Brooke I dun wanna be nice, he resembles his namesake XD 18:19 wahanui okay, slef. 18:19 slef wahanui: meetbot is also http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/Semi-automatic-minutes-for-IRC-meetings-on-koha-td3264811.html 18:19 cait be nice 18:19 cait he is still small 18:19 libsysguy bad slef 18:19 cait oh no, you don't 18:19 wahanui OK, Brooke. 18:19 Brooke wahanui meetbot is http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot 18:19 * slef kills wahanui 18:19 wahanui wish i knew, slef 18:19 slef wahanui: meetbot? 18:19 Brooke so easy a caveman like me can use it. 18:19 wahanui i don't know, slef 18:19 slef wahanui: meetbot instructions? 18:18 wahanui wish i knew, slef 18:18 slef wahanui: meetingbot? 18:18 * cait volunteers slef to chair 18:18 Brooke http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot 18:18 libsysguy oh yeah thats coo 18:18 cait the bot we use to log irc meetings 18:18 libsysguy yeah sure i guess 18:18 libsysguy meetingbot? 18:17 slef so libsysguy are you OK with the meetingbot? 18:17 slef which let me interrupt and move the conversation to its conclusion 18:16 slef few people can stand psychadelia over the shoulder of the person they're trying to talk to 18:16 cait and pretend you are on the phone? 18:16 slef screen facing the door, Moire screensaver kicking in after 2mins 18:16 cait keep the headset on 18:16 slef oh I used to have a good trick 18:15 Brooke use the trap door, I keep tellin' ye. 18:15 slef libsysguy: fnarr 18:15 libsysguy sorry I had someone in my office 18:15 Brooke hi dude 18:15 slef so we have TEMPLATE_CONTEXT_PROCESSORS that say what modules do the templating 18:15 libsysguy hey guys 18:15 slef http://packages.python.org/django-mothertongue/setup.html#setup 18:15 cait uhoh 18:14 * slef rummages 18:14 slef in python we do things like this 18:14 slef nah, but same method will work 18:14 sekjal migrate Koha to Python? 18:14 slef sekjal: they're awful PHP kludges trying to make up for a braindead implementation environment. Python does this so much better. Aha! That's how we do it! 18:13 cait slef: good reasoning 18:13 sekjal but Wordpress's hooks and filters are pretty great. I'd like to see more of that 18:13 slef cait: I confuse myself. Why should you escape? 18:13 slef http://codex.wordpress.org/Plugin_API#Hooks.2C_Actions_and_Filters 18:12 * sekjal isn't good with OO Perl yet 18:12 cait you should talk to ian like that :) 18:12 cait now you confused me 18:12 slef the other way to do it is with hooks, like wordpress 18:12 slef the bit I forget is how to make your extended class get called instead of the C4 base one 18:11 slef as well as a call back to the C4 class 18:11 slef the OO way is probably to replace the C4 class with something that extends it and adds the extra actions you want 18:11 Brooke nope. That'd get me in trouble with the little missus. 18:10 slef awww, I'm a cute? 18:10 Brooke I'm chronically dense. At least your condition is acute. 18:10 slef oh wait I'm being dense 18:09 cait slef: only wanted to make sure :) 18:09 Brooke http://typewith.me/3gYf6ozqf4 18:09 cait some notices wired to actions, like checkout, checkin etc. 18:09 slef nah, in the modules (in the koha sense, not the perl sense) 18:09 cait but more flexible than the notice triggers are now 18:09 cait we talked about actions and triggers 18:08 cait in the database? 18:08 * Brooke agrees with cait. 18:08 cait now we have to find a way to get it done 18:08 Brooke mention away 18:08 cait dreaming up what we want it to do 18:08 slef dare I mention hooks or triggers again? I don't think I've tried that for a few years 18:08 cait but that's not bad 18:08 Brooke slef get to the meeting later ;) 18:08 cait yeah 18:07 slef I mean, http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Notifications_RFC sort of fits into a general need to overhaul and generalise notifications doesn't it? Multiple notice types, multiple send methods, consistent TT templating 18:07 sekjal sans propeller 18:07 sekjal I'm here 18:07 wahanui hmmm... sekjal is someone's favorite propeller-head. 18:07 cait hm sekjal? 18:07 wahanui I LIKE SPACE! 18:07 Brooke natec? 18:07 cait wondering where he is 18:06 slef ah, wahanui is too smart 18:06 slef who? 18:06 cait slef: I thought libsysguy 18:06 slef cait is our saviour 18:06 cait we saved the world 18:06 cait phew 18:06 wahanui I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS! 18:06 cait rangi? 18:06 Brooke I also broke the interwebs, so watch it ;) 18:06 wahanui OK, slef. 18:06 slef wahanui: rangi is <reply> I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS! 18:06 cait rangi <reply> I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS! 18:05 cait Brooke: you broke the joke 18:05 wahanui cait: I forgot rangi 18:05 cait forget rangi 18:05 slef Brooke is the lobotomy-mistress 18:05 cait hm 18:05 wahanui somebody said rangi was I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS! 18:05 cait rangi? 18:05 cait rangi is I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS! 18:05 slef who is supposedly running this meeting 18:05 cait no Brooke... 18:05 wahanui Brooke: I forgot rangi 18:05 Brooke forget rangi 18:04 wahanui I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS! or at work 18:04 slef wahanui: rangi? 18:04 cait only showing libsysguy I am here :P 18:03 wahanui Brooke: I forgot this 18:03 Brooke wahanui forget this 18:03 cait slef: hi slef 18:03 wahanui oleonard-away: excuse me? 18:03 oleonard-away wahanui has turned into a chat bot 18:03 wahanui ...but this is something we have to talk about... 18:03 sekjal and this is why we keep you around, wahanui 18:02 wahanui somebody said there was no spoon. 18:02 slef cait: there? 18:02 cait here 17:42 Brooke marthakanter++ 17:17 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 5549] Hourly Loans <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5549> 17:12 Brooke kia ora 17:04 libsysguy sekjal++ 17:03 sekjal checkout: AddIssue() 17:03 sekjal checkin: AddReturn() 17:02 libsysguy what function(s) controls checkin/checkout 16:36 kmkale hi paul_p 16:35 gmcharlt hi kmkale 16:34 cait hi kmkale 16:32 kmkale hi cait gmcharlt 16:15 JoeLib001 Thanks for the pointer. :-) I will poke my head in the hole and hope it's not for a guillotine. hehe. :-) 16:12 cait will show you the tables, but not all tables have been commented yet 16:12 cait schema.koha-community.org 16:11 cait I woul dadd some subscriptions into koha and try to figure out from there 16:11 cait I think for serials not yet 16:11 JoeLib001 Is there a good explanation of what should go in each MySQL Table and Field? 16:08 JoeLib001 Hi, I am looking for information on Migrating Data for Serials Titles from an Excel file to Koha. Is there a tutorial or even a pointer in the right direction? I have Koha installed correctly and I am able to add bib records and attach subscriptions to those. 16:04 cait so if someone checks the book on before the cronjob does its round - he is ok with the fine that was on the book on checkin 16:04 cait never 16:04 cait that checked in items should not get fines 16:04 gmcharlt of course, somebody who drops an hourly loan into the book drop ... perhaps deserves what they get charged ;) 16:04 cait and think this is like it worked for us 16:04 cait i woul dthink 16:04 libsysguy ^^ 16:04 cait hm 16:03 gmcharlt cait: the calculation would have to be based on the checkin timestamp, even if the calculation itself occurs later 16:03 cait because it will catch even a second more lateness? 16:03 cait hm, but will the checkin fine not be harder to him then? 16:02 gmcharlt of course, however it gets done, it does all need to be finsihed up before fine notices are sent out that day 16:02 cait hehe 16:02 gmcharlt whereas if a patron is standing in front of you wondering if they're going to ahve to take out a second mortgage, enable on the spot calculation 16:02 cait gmcharlt: makes sense! 16:02 libsysguy or you could do it on itemtype 16:01 gmcharlt cait: and possibly a session option - if you're checking in a bunch of items from the bookdrop, you don't necessarily need the fines to be calculated instantly 16:01 cait hf 16:01 cait :) 16:01 wizzyrea and with that, I bid you adieu - i'm off to talk to librarians about online security 16:01 wizzyrea yea that's a good idea 16:01 sekjal cait++ 16:01 cait fine calculation on checkin I mean 16:00 cait if we are going to keep the cron and other libraries are not so crazy about fines? 16:00 cait perhaps it could be an option? 15:58 wizzyrea that crosses the scanner gun 15:58 wizzyrea which is why I was wondering if a check to see if the fine *needed* to be calculated now (in the case of a per-minute loan, for example) might be faster than calculating for everything 15:57 gmcharlt wizzyrea: sekjal: one thing about calculating fines on checkin -- that *is* something that's been the target of various performance tweaks over the years to avoid too much of a performance penalty when checking in an item that has been long overdue 15:57 wizzyrea yes, exactly. 15:56 libsysguy so basically don't add more than a second to checkin...got it :) 15:56 wizzyrea very enlightening 15:56 wizzyrea thanks gmcharlt 15:56 wizzyrea but that's kind of a separate issue 15:55 wizzyrea but not the fines tab 15:55 wizzyrea checkouts and holds make sense to me :) 15:55 sekjal so, as long as that's as efficient as possible.... 15:55 wizzyrea I do think that the fines tab on the patron detail is pointless 15:55 sekjal wizzyrea: it would add whatever processing time it takes to run the fines update subroutine 15:54 wizzyrea the rest, idc about as much. 15:54 wizzyrea libsysguy: I only have the requirement that it doesn't inordinately slow down checkin. 15:53 wizzyrea not just hourlies, but regular checkins too 15:53 libsysguy btw sekjal...of you are interested in just how crazy the people I work with are just ask druthb lol 15:53 wizzyrea and that process is the same for every item? 15:53 Oak Evening cait 15:53 Oak hello #koha 15:52 gmcharlt and that gets used when calculating the number of fine billings to add 15:52 libsysguy that is exactly what I was proposing I thought 15:52 gmcharlt at the point of checkout, a loan in Evergreen records it's fining interval, which can be expressed as any valid interval 15:52 wizzyrea there you have it :) 15:51 gmcharlt wizzyrea: basically, fines are calculated one of two ways -- via a cron job (for generating estimated fines) and upon checkin 15:49 wizzyrea with minutely fines 15:49 wizzyrea gmcharlt, do you have a minute to enlighten us as to how it works? 15:48 gmcharlt wizzyrea: yep (actually, it has for a long time) 15:44 libsysguy x_x 15:44 wizzyrea bleh 15:44 wizzyrea so now it's gone. 15:44 wizzyrea >.< 15:44 wizzyrea sorry I had a thought and then someone walked in 15:43 wizzyrea ok wait a sec 15:43 cait and total on the details page... 15:43 wizzyrea i'll give it a minute then ask in #evergreen ;) 15:42 * libsysguy was doing that same thing wizzyrea 15:42 wizzyrea gmcharlt does evergreen do hourly loans yet? 15:42 * wizzyrea wonders idly how other ils's dealt with the problem 15:41 libsysguy and a fine gets assessed 15:41 libsysguy so they have an item that seconds before they checkout another item goes overdue 15:40 libsysguy what about checkout? 15:40 sekjal what if that extra 50 cents just put them over the maximum limit, and they're now blocked? 15:40 libsysguy why not just update when the barcode is scanned in 15:40 sekjal what about checkout? 15:40 wizzyrea that's the only place to do it 15:40 libsysguy or...acutally just on check in 15:40 wizzyrea if they're trying to pay the fine they just got 15:40 libsysguy details 15:40 wizzyrea I think fines tab, because you have to go there to pay fines anyway 15:39 libsysguy the patrons page only 15:39 wizzyrea the patron page or the fines tab? 15:39 libsysguy (I think) 15:39 libsysguy right 15:39 * oleonard wonders if all the people who voted in the KohaCon11 survey will be voting this time 15:38 sekjal libsysguy: so, keep the minutely cron, and also have a manual update call when the patron page loans? so those last-minute fines are guaranteed to show up? 15:38 wizzyrea basically, the fine is applied at the beginning of every minute, instead of the end 15:37 wizzyrea then 50 cents per minute, right? 15:37 * magnuse buts out agin 15:37 wizzyrea well, 50 cents for the first second overdue 15:37 libsysguy but what I am proposing is no change to the current cron system and one extra call in the checkin function 15:37 * magnuse buts in to remind everyone to vote for KohaCon12 location http://survey.web2learning.net/limesurvey/index.php?sid=63529 15:36 sekjal I mean, 50 cents per second is a pretty good hourly rate 15:36 wizzyrea ^^ 15:36 sekjal libsysguy: perhaps explaining to them how many hours it's going to take to fix this, and the hourly cost of development, and weigh that in terms of how much extra money they'll wind up bringing in with fines 15:36 wizzyrea less 15:36 wizzyrea and in most cases lest 15:35 libsysguy and when the line is long that could turn into 15 15:35 wizzyrea for a single minute :) 15:35 libsysguy but then they have to remember 15:35 libsysguy I brought that up 15:35 wizzyrea all good :) 15:35 libsysguy sorry...I don't mean to sound so animated about this 15:35 wizzyrea and apply it once the fine appears 15:35 wizzyrea why not take the money 15:35 wizzyrea they know they'r going to get a 50c fine 15:35 wizzyrea or they are 30s late with their return 15:35 wizzyrea if they know that people are x minutes overdue 15:34 libsysguy ^^ 15:34 wizzyrea not a technology problem 15:34 wizzyrea this is a people issue 15:34 libsysguy to the librarians I work with...yes 15:34 libsysguy but I think the real issue that I have is a patron would have to stand at the circ desk for an additional (possible) minute to pay thier fine 15:34 sekjal is it really worth it to be that draconian? 15:33 libsysguy if they are overdue by a second its a 50 cent fine then its based on whatever interval 15:33 sekjal and how much is a patron charged per second? 15:33 sekjal but that may be unavoidable 15:33 sekjal yes 15:32 libsysguy so the issue I see with minutely cron is that when a patron checks in and they are overdue there is still a possible 60s window for not fines being charged 15:31 wizzyrea something that only looks at short-term loans 15:31 sekjal s/cron/script/ 15:31 wizzyrea could hourly have it's own minute - running cron? 15:31 sekjal unless it's a VERY efficient cron 15:31 sekjal yes 15:31 libsysguy I think setting the cron to run every minute is also very expensive 15:31 wizzyrea ^^ 15:30 sekjal for systems with many, many overdues, keeping track of all those patrons in the daemon's memory would be... expensive 15:30 libsysguy not I 15:30 sekjal I imagine the daemon option is not going to be very viable 15:30 wizzyrea seriously has anyone ever heard him say anything but bye? 15:30 reiveune bye 15:30 * libsysguy is a daemon newb :'( 15:29 sekjal a more thorough method would be to do this on a cron every minute, or with a daemon 15:29 libsysguy oh...well I was thinking that we would still be running the cron and those checkin operations 15:29 sekjal it would be on us to think of every single place where that question could be asked, and include the logic to update the fines before asking 15:29 sekjal if we only triggered on checkin or overdues or the loading of the patrons' fine page, then any other vector for approaching the question "what fines does this patron have AS OF RIGHT NOW?" wouldn't be accurate 15:28 wizzyrea and permission to wield the double bird and spin 15:28 * libsysguy accepts wizzyrea's tokens 15:28 * wizzyrea gives libsysguy a hot cup of tea and a cookie 15:28 libsysguy its been a rough morning 15:28 sekjal I'm looking at all as triggers and actions 15:28 libsysguy basically 15:28 wizzyrea :) 15:27 * wizzyrea imagines steam coming out of libsysguy's ears 15:26 libsysguy but wouldn't doing a system call do the same thing? 15:26 wizzyrea :) 15:26 wizzyrea not trying to be a jerk or anything 15:25 cait libsysguy: immediate fining! 15:25 cait wizzyrea: ok :) 15:25 libsysguy so I guess I'm a little confused as to what you are proposing we do with the daemon 15:25 wizzyrea so the printing argument, I don't think it holds 15:24 wizzyrea shows less detail than the print page 15:24 wizzyrea the tab on the patron detail 15:24 wizzyrea but, what I mean is 15:24 sekjal libsysguy: yes, true 15:24 wizzyrea all good questions, not sure I have answers 15:24 libsysguy -> apply them 15:24 libsysguy I thought it was every X minutes check for new fines 15:23 libsysguy sekjal do we really charge based on that 15:23 cait why not use a print css? 15:23 cait does that make sense? 15:23 cait oh, I see 15:23 cait not fines, address, holds and all that 15:23 cait but that's checkouts, right? 15:23 wizzyrea it calls a totally separate template 15:23 wizzyrea well, from all tabs 15:23 cait looks nice 15:23 cait ah 15:22 wizzyrea nope, from the patron detail page 15:22 cait tab? 15:22 cait tag? 15:22 cait from fines? 15:22 wizzyrea is what print page looks like 15:22 wizzyrea http://screencast.com/t/SPQT626KqBg for cait 15:22 sekjal since hourly loans is really minutely-loans, we need a minutely cron to preserve what we're doing 15:21 sekjal every X minutes, charge Y fee 15:21 cait oh 15:21 cait answering questions like: why can i see that fine but not the other on my borrower account and so on 15:21 sekjal but also, that makes sense 15:21 sekjal possibly because of history 15:20 sekjal our circulation rules are configured so that fines accrue on a schedule 15:20 cait unpleasant surprises 15:20 cait waiting = fines waiting 15:20 cait and it was all kind of trouble 15:20 cait and you could not send out notices for the fines with the amounts in them 15:20 libsysguy cait I don't understand 15:20 libsysguy so did symphony 15:20 cait but people never knew what was waiting for them in the library 15:19 cait calculated the hourly loans on return 15:19 cait horizon did that 15:19 wizzyrea oo 15:19 * cait is reading 'city of glass' 15:19 wizzyrea but i'm not sure there's a way to differentiate a type of loan 15:18 cait i was just reading about daemons - that's why I was giggling 15:18 cait sounds fun too 15:18 wizzyrea don't 15:18 wizzyrea if not 15:18 cait or that deamon thing 15:18 wizzyrea if the loan is hourly, compute the fine now 15:18 libsysguy just like you would now 15:18 wizzyrea well a compromise would be 15:18 libsysguy so run a nightly cron 15:18 libsysguy right 15:18 cait libsysguy: because you will still want to calculate and report on fines before that 15:18 wizzyrea that comes from a diff template 15:18 wizzyrea ok then yea 15:17 cait we were 15:17 libsysguy why can't we just run the overdue function when we do a checkin? 15:17 wizzyrea right? 15:17 wizzyrea cait we're talking about print -> print page, righ 15:16 cait *giggles* 15:16 sekjal I think for hourly, we'll either need to run fines on a minutely cron, or else have a daemon 15:16 wizzyrea it doesn't have any functionality that I can discern, besides showing the total? 15:13 cait but I always kind of liked it 15:13 cait about removing it 15:13 cait wizzyrea: perhaps you are right 15:13 cait hm 15:12 cait the tabs print differently 15:12 libsysguy you will always have to be watching 15:12 * wizzyrea wonders if the print page is actually dependent on what is shown on this page 15:12 cait and that is something we need to be able to do 15:12 libsysguy because with hourly it will be almost impossible to catch the fine when it occurs 15:12 cait wizzyrea: you can give the patron a lot of the information that is saved about him in the system 15:11 cait wizzyrea: another reason: because when you print that page 15:11 libsysguy then I think we need another solution 15:11 cait libsysguy: if this can not be done reasonable with a cron we need another solution 15:11 wizzyrea devoted to fines 15:10 wizzyrea and we have a whole beautiful tab 15:10 cait libsysguy: I think the important thing is that the fine does not show up on return - but in the moment it occurs 15:10 wizzyrea and it slows down the load of that page 15:10 libsysguy but the total is below all the charges 15:10 cait we have it in the patron account too (and sometimes I hide the fines tab there because it's so confusng and untranslated) 15:10 cait I think it's ok where it is 15:10 cait to see te total quickly 15:09 oleonard Instant gratification? 15:09 wizzyrea fine* 15:09 wizzyrea the others are fie 15:09 wizzyrea *nod* idk why anybody would use it, honestly 15:09 sekjal that tab is pretty useless 15:07 wizzyrea http://screencast.com/t/izGTBVF1a 15:06 * sekjal <3's his vaporware AJAX widgets 15:06 sekjal put it behind an AJAX-y widget 15:06 libsysguy I also agree with that 15:06 wizzyrea I'd just as soon get rid of that tab, as the fines tab on the side shows the detail view 15:05 wizzyrea on it's fines tab 15:05 wizzyrea the details page only shows the total due 15:05 libsysguy ^^ 15:05 sekjal ideally, I'd like it to be up to date every time you check, no matter what vector you come in from 15:05 wizzyrea so, fines tab, really. 15:04 wizzyrea it makes sense to me to do it anywhere you could do something with a fine 15:04 libsysguy that makes logical sense (imo) 15:04 libsysguy how about anywhere the overdues check gets called? 15:03 wizzyrea (imo) 15:03 wizzyrea not details 15:03 wizzyrea patron fines page load 15:03 libsysguy I think checkin is a must 15:03 sekjal patron details page load? 15:03 sekjal checkin is a good candidate 15:03 sekjal what system events would we want to trigger on? 15:02 libsysguy and are sharpening their pitchforks 15:02 libsysguy but that is making the librarians mad 15:02 libsysguy that is why I have it set to 30 mins currently 15:02 libsysguy sekjal exactly 15:02 libsysguy i can run 300+ overdues in under 15 s 15:02 libsysguy well it would be the time to do an overdue lookup on that item then the time to run calcfine 15:02 sekjal and running it every minute could produce a lot of excess load on the system 15:01 sekjal cron is kind of limited, since you have to schedule it, and there is at least 1 min max wait-time 15:01 libsysguy just a nightly cron 15:01 wizzyrea I, for one, would have to *know* that it wasn't going to make checkin excessively slow 15:01 libsysguy so do you think it should be a separate bug or included in hourly. Also I think it should be both 15:00 sekjal so it can either be event driven (checkin, etc) or scheduled (on cron) 15:00 sekjal agreed 15:00 libsysguy sekjal I think there will be more of a call when we push hourly 14:59 libsysguy sekjal will have syslock when he starts typing with all his opinions :p 14:59 rhcl I really want to become the world expert on printing from linux/koha to receipt printers. We've been unsuccessful so far, and I need to take a look at the issue. 14:59 sekjal libsysguy: there has been some call for doing a fines calculation on-demand, instead of just on cron 14:59 libsysguy oh God...what have I done 14:59 oleonard libsysguy: That seems like an awfully open-ended question. 14:58 gmcharlt rhcl: I suspect it applies to any recent windows 14:58 libsysguy hmm sekjal you around with an opinion 14:58 rhcl gmcharlt: does the OS matter (bug sez XP)? 14:58 * wizzyrea doesn't know enough about it to have an opinion 14:57 libsysguy and reduce load on the system by reducing the amount of calls to fines 14:57 wizzyrea AHA 14:57 gmcharlt wizzyrea: the upshot is that it fixes a rather longstanding bug in Firefox (and xulrunner) that could play hash with trying to print on old receipt printers 14:57 libsysguy this would make it instant 14:57 libsysguy even then there is still a delay 14:57 wizzyrea or a separate cron for hourly loans 14:56 wizzyrea libsysguy: true 14:56 libsysguy so I'm wondering if anyone is opposed to adding a call to see if overdues and fines when an item is turned in 14:56 * wizzyrea doesn't understand the context of gmcharlt's chorus of angels 14:56 libsysguy it is rather bothersom when you have to tell a patron that they have to wait 30 minutes to pay their overdue fine 14:56 libsysguy ok so we've been having this issue with hourly loans and fines since the fines script runs in the cron 14:54 gmcharlt *verily 14:54 huginn 04Bug 454532: was not found. 14:54 gmcharlt verify, a miracle has occurred - https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=454532 14:38 cait oh good 14:36 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6842] Branch transfer limits broken <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6842> 14:15 rhcl hi hi cait 14:04 cait hi rhcl, hi koha 14:03 rhcl oh, he's gone 14:03 rhcl_away same old stuff here 13:56 Oak what about you rhcl_away ? 13:56 Oak it's 6:59 pm here... so nothing much. listening to music. 13:55 Oak electricity will probably go out in 2 minutes... 13:55 Oak nothing much rhcl_away :) 13:55 rhcl_away hey oak, what's up? 13:55 Danielle :D 13:54 Oak Agent Dani is what I'm familiar with 13:54 Oak yes, it helped. 13:54 Oak aah 13:54 Danielle Oak: If it helps matters, I used to use "agentdani" here." 13:53 Danielle Oak: North Carolina, USA. 13:52 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6872] Can't set default SMS messaging options when defining a patron category <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6872> 13:41 Oak Danielle, where are you from? 13:39 Oak magnuse 13:39 Oak oh hello Danielle :) 13:39 magnuse Oak 13:39 Danielle Hi Oak 13:39 Oak hello #koha 13:36 kf bye! 13:36 kf yep for the meeting :) 13:36 libsysguy haha later kf 13:36 kf ... time to go home 13:36 kf get 13:36 huginn magnuse: Quote #155: "libsysguy: I always hate touching somebody else's code that they are currently working on...its like asking someone if you can hold their kid" (added by kf at 01:35 PM, September 15, 2011) 13:36 magnuse @quote get 155 13:36 kf grrr 13:36 huginn kf: I suck 13:36 kf @quote 155 13:36 huginn kf: downloading the Perl source 13:36 kf @quote show 155 13:35 kf and a nice number you got! 13:35 huginn kf: The operation succeeded. Quote #155 added. 13:35 kf @quote add libsysguy: I always hate touching somebody else's code that they are currently working on...its like asking someone if you can hold their kid 13:35 kf lol 13:34 libsysguy I always hate touching somebody else's code that they are currently working on...its like asking someone if you can hold their kid 13:34 libsysguy it looks like it...and he used my suggestion so that basically makes me happy 13:33 kf was he abelt o fix your problemß 13:33 kf oh 13:33 huginn kf: ColinC was last seen in #koha 1 week, 0 days, 18 hours, 7 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <ColinC> +1 13:33 kf @seen ColinC 13:33 libsysguy Colin++ for my hourly patch 13:33 libsysguy wow... 13:32 huginn kf: Colin was last seen in #koha 36 weeks, 0 days, 15 hours, 29 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <Colin> Colin Campbell, PTFS Europe Ltd 13:32 kf @seen Colin 13:32 libsysguy colin** 13:32 libsysguy what is collin's username? 13:32 libsysguy jk = just kidding 13:31 Danielle heh 13:31 kf jk? 13:31 kf see, there is one reason 13:31 libsysguy jk I have love for rangi too 13:30 libsysguy because of his excellent selection of soundcloud music? 13:29 kf nah, not only because of pushing our patches 13:29 libsysguy heh 13:28 libsysguy we really shouldn't take that last comment out of context 13:28 libsysguy because he pushes our packages 13:28 kf and still... we like him 13:28 libsysguy yeah it does 13:28 libsysguy heh 13:28 kf yeah, sounds like rangi 13:27 libsysguy haha 13:27 libsysguy so he spammed me with puke comments 13:26 libsysguy I have a super weak stomach when it comes to blood and puke 13:26 magnuse not sure i want to know the rest of it... ;-) 13:26 kf ? 13:25 libsysguy typical rangi 13:25 libsysguy he was sending me messages about vomit 13:23 kf ah no, that was someone else 13:22 magnuse ouch? 13:22 kf causing earthquakes it seems 13:22 magnuse what did rangi do now? 13:21 huginn libsysguy: The operation succeeded. 13:21 libsysguy @later tell rangi not cool man...not cool 13:21 libsysguy morning kf 13:21 kf hi atz_ 13:20 kf morning libsysguy 13:20 kf hi Danielle 13:19 Danielle o/ 13:19 kf yay :) 13:17 sekjal (hi kf) 13:17 sekjal back up 13:16 kf and hi sekjal 13:16 * kf crosses fingers 13:09 sekjal just so everyone's aware, I'm rebooting git.koha-community.org, since it's stopped responding. hopefully won't take much longer to come back up 13:04 magnuse kia ora sekjal 13:04 sekjal morning, everyone! 13:03 hdl :D 13:02 oleonard Hi hdl 13:02 hdl hi oleonard 13:02 * oleonard grumbles 12:38 magnuse looked like it earlier today 12:37 oleonard git.koha-community.org down? 12:29 magnuse "Free range librarians" 12:29 magnuse http://lib1point5.wordpress.com/2011/08/16/ipad-in-my-library/ 12:28 oleonard I take the holds queue report with me while I pull books from the shelf 12:28 magnuse could be that ;-) 12:28 jwagner Or maybe take inventory, etc. 12:27 jwagner Then it should be fine. I'm not sure what they're going to do with it in the stacks. Play games? :-) 12:27 magnuse hehe 12:27 oleonard ...although I wouldn't want to do cataloging with it :| 12:27 * oleonard can use the Koha staff client on his first-generation iPod Touch 12:24 * magnuse breathes a sigh of relief... 12:24 jwagner OK, good news, thanks. I'll tell them. 12:23 oleonard They just don't understand that Safari is a standards-compliant browser. it will work. 12:23 jwagner They said they couldn't find a version of Firefox for it 12:23 jwagner magnuse, I don't know -- didn't get that far with them. 12:23 oleonard it certainly should 12:22 magnuse jwagner: does that mean the default browser (safari?) does not work? 12:16 jwagner Morning, folks. Got a question from one of my libraries. They've bought an iPad2 for staff use in the stacks and are trying to find a browser for it that would work with Koha. I've never used or even seen an iPad -- any ideas? 10:51 kf magnuse++ 10:29 magnuse forgot the wiki... 10:22 rangi heh nope 10:22 magnuse that's twitter in english and norwegian, facebook, google+, my company website and the norwegian koha email-list done... anything i forgot? 10:15 magnuse bonjour hdl 10:15 hdl hi 09:50 magnuse looks like git.koha-community.org has a problem 09:48 kf and what the survey is about 09:47 * Brooke nods. 09:47 rangi but we probably need to say that in a follow up email? 09:46 rangi i think thats plenty 09:46 magnuse but it might be possible to extend it, i guess 09:45 magnuse i'd say that is plenty 09:44 kf yep 09:44 magnuse 2 weeks and a couple of days? 09:43 kf that's soon 09:43 kf ah ok 09:42 magnuse kf: october 1st was decided in a meeting a while back 09:41 Oak thanks 09:41 kf magnuse: do we have a deadline for the vote? 09:41 kf good luck 09:41 kf ouch 09:39 Oak me go now. dentist appointment... 09:39 magnuse yay! 09:38 Oak done :) 09:37 magnuse time to vote, folks! http://survey.web2learning.net/limesurvey/index.php?sid=63529 09:30 Brooke 0/ 09:30 Oak :^) 09:30 kf hi Brooke 09:30 kf hi Oak :) 09:21 magnuse Oak 09:21 Oak :) 09:19 * Brooke titters. 09:19 Oak oh Brooke. well, what can I say. 09:18 wahanui everyone is doin' the hot new dance the Cracked Out Kitty Tail Shiver 09:18 Oak everyone 09:17 Oak magnuse 09:17 Oak Guten Tag kf 09:17 Brooke the feeling is mutual 09:17 Oak :] good to see you as always 09:16 Brooke Oak :D 09:16 Oak Hello Brooke 08:53 magnuse kia ora Brooke 08:53 magnuse yup, i just added it to http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Building_Debian_Packages_-_The_Easy_Way#Deploy_the_packages 08:52 wahanui hello, Brooke 08:52 Brooke howdy 08:52 rangi hi Brooke 08:52 rangi thats right, but its at debian.koha-community.org 08:51 Brooke kia ora 08:47 magnuse what's the thing with libcgi-session-driver-memcached-perl again? the right version isn't in the debian repos yet or something? 08:29 magnuse ooh, ice cold whisky dispenser 08:28 magnuse :-) 08:28 rangi heh 08:27 eythian http://blackandwtf.tumblr.com/post/10204202171/1930s-a-cat-escapes-from-the-animal-rescue <-- home time now, but I'll leave you with this 08:22 eythian oh, should email someone first... 08:22 eythian but, got two Koha things finished that I wanted to today, so that's all good :) 08:22 magnuse yay 08:21 eythian now it's time to go home, been helping with a minor Stuff emergency 08:21 eythian (and sometimes kick it over to a staging server using repositories that we have here) 08:21 magnuse it's been a while since i did it from scratch... 08:21 eythian (what I actually do is browse through the .deb itself usually to see what's in there) 08:20 rangi because you aren't apt-getting it, but dpkg -i it, it doesnt get a chance to pull in the dependencies 08:20 magnuse ah 08:20 rangi and it should pull in all the dependencies 08:20 eythian that 08:20 eythian what I do is do 08:20 rangi try doing an apt-get -f install now 08:20 eythian it's because they're not installed 08:20 rangi yup, thats quite normal 08:20 eythian magnuse: that's normal 08:19 rangi hmm 08:19 magnuse e.g. koha-common needs tinymce2 but tinymce2 is not installed? 08:18 magnuse and when i do "sudo dpkg -i" on a fresh vm i get lots of... 08:18 rangi yup? 08:18 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4877 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, magnus, NEW , koha-* scripts have no manual pages 08:18 magnuse huh - i just built koha-common off current master, with the patches for bug 4877 08:18 rangi half time 08:16 magnuse yeah, "if it works, don't fix it" seems to be quite a common stance... 08:15 rangi them 08:15 rangi pretty old koha versions, but seem to be working fine for tme 08:14 magnuse and this one looks cool: http://opac.kohamarc.sciencelib.ge/ 08:13 rangi ohh very cool 08:13 magnuse http://koha.iset.ge/ "Supported by BP, Government of Georgia, the Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, OSI, Sida, and the World Bank" yay 08:10 magnuse s/npt/not/ 08:10 magnuse searching for "koha georgia" was npt the way to do it ;-) 08:10 magnuse we managed to find some georgia libraries already using it 08:09 kf magnuse: cool 08:09 rangi ah cool 08:09 kf one day away 120 mails + mailing lists... 08:09 magnuse there is a norwegian librarian who is doing a library project in a georgia prison, and wants to use koha for it :-) 08:09 kf hi rangi :) 08:09 rangi hi kf 08:09 kf hi #koha 08:08 magnuse yeah, i saw georgia on a list somewhere 08:08 rangi romania and georgia are also in the world cup 08:07 magnuse hm i think my preconceived notions about rugby and russians are sort of aligned with each other... 08:07 rangi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_national_rugby_union_team 08:06 magnuse ah 08:05 rangi but its the first time they have managed to qualify 08:05 rangi getting bigger all the time 08:05 magnuse is rugby a big game there? 08:05 magnuse oh 08:03 rangi the russian deputy prime minister is here watching it 08:03 rangi russia's first ever game in a world cup 08:03 rangi pretty good game so far 08:01 magnuse but is it epic? ;-) 08:00 rangi 10-3 to the usa magnuse 07:47 magnuse good luck with that, paul! 07:45 paul_p hello world. Live from the annual "librarian in universities association" conference. BibLibre has a booth 07:35 magnuse russia v.s. usa - that sounds kind of epic... 07:11 magnuse np 07:10 Irma thanks magnuse for bug # 07:08 Irma thanks eythian. NP. Most likely by the time this library has it's implementation in production it will be available .... there is much delay in their committing to Koha so far 07:07 reiveune :) Hi magnuse 07:07 magnuse bonjour reiveune 07:07 reiveune hello 07:05 magnuse current status is "Failed QA" 07:04 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5549 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, ian.walls, ASSIGNED , Hourly Loans 07:04 magnuse bug 5549 07:04 magnuse hiya Irma 07:04 Irma hi magnuse ;-) 07:04 eythian I guess there's a chance it'll get in to 3.6, I've seen work on it, but I don't know how far along it is. 07:03 eythian Not sure, I haven't been following hourly loans. 07:03 eythian Yeah, it can't hurt (well...) Also, I think by then I will have had everything I need for everywhere, except Africa (which would need a yellow fever one, too) 07:03 * magnuse admires the intrepid travellers 07:03 Irma or before? 07:03 Irma lending 07:03 Irma Koha question ... hourly circulation/lending is that more likely to be available in koha v 4? 07:02 Irma eythian it will be good to get it done! Just in case ... 07:00 eythian I haven't yet, the ones I got for the Solomon Islands should be all I need, but I have an appointment for next week to get a booster and see if there's anything else I should have. 06:59 Irma have you had your immunisations done yet? I am going tomorrow ... Bob too 06:59 Irma Cool! Yes I know about Chris ... 06:58 eythian Yep, I'm going. Chris isn't. 06:58 Irma correction: busyness not business 06:58 eythian yeah, we're going to be flat out until the end of the year at least we expect. 06:57 Irma Is KohaCon2011 possible for you? 06:57 Irma I get such vibes coming across the ditch ... But sounds like the business is paying off ;-) 06:56 eythian Not too bad. Busy as ever. 06:55 Irma how r u? 06:55 Irma hi eythian 06:55 eythian hi Irma 06:54 Irma Hi all 06:30 cait hi alex_a 06:28 magnuse bonjour 06:28 alex_a hello 06:13 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 4877] koha-* scripts have no manual pages <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4877> 06:13 cait hi :) 06:12 magnuse and hi cait 06:12 magnuse yay 06:12 cait magnuse++ eythian++ 06:12 cait :) 06:11 eythian cool 06:11 magnuse i'll give your patch a spin in a moment 06:11 magnuse eythian++ 06:10 * magnuse runs to the inbox 06:10 magnuse yay 06:10 eythian magnuse: you've got email 05:56 cait hi laurence 05:55 laurence hi rangi 05:55 rangi hi laurence 05:52 cait oh 05:52 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 11.3�C (7:47 AM CEST on September 15, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1019.9 hPa (Rising). 05:52 cait @wunder Konstanz 05:51 cait wizzyrea: no buts - bed! :) 05:51 rangi ok when ur moving cold waiting for the bus 05:50 rangi yeah that sounds right 05:50 eythian metservice says 8, feels like 6. 05:50 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 10.0�C (5:00 PM NZST on September 15, 2011). Conditions: Rain Showers. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 8.0�C. Pressure: 29.42 in 996 hPa (Rising). 05:50 rangi @wunder wellington nz 05:50 wizzyrea ty kindly 05:49 eythian wizzyrea: made and allocated to you 05:49 rangi I think it is 05:49 eythian my computer says 14. It may be lying htough 05:49 rangi tis cold out there 05:49 rangi brrrr 05:48 wizzyrea but but 05:48 cait wizzyrea: go to bed! 05:47 eythian I have 16 or 17 or so in a plane coming up :/ 05:47 eythian OK 05:47 wizzyrea i'm in denial that I have to spend 6 hours in a car tomorrow 05:47 wizzyrea it's like nearly 1am here 05:47 wizzyrea and I need to remember to put it on k-c.org too 05:47 wizzyrea if you have a min 05:47 wizzyrea put a bug in to remind me 05:47 wizzyrea ooo 05:46 eythian should link to it from the reports page. 05:46 wizzyrea way nifty 05:46 eythian yeah, nifty eh 05:46 wizzyrea super awesome happy fun time! 05:46 wizzyrea I used schema.k-c.org today 05:46 wizzyrea hawt 05:45 eythian hahah 05:45 eythian in other news, I now have man pages autogenerating from docbook as part of the build process. 05:45 wahanui i already had it that way, cait. 05:45 * cait wonders if she is still sleeping 05:45 eythian clearly :) 05:45 * wizzyrea busts up laughing 05:45 wizzyrea must have known I have "tender" eyes 05:44 wizzyrea REFRESH REFRESH 05:44 wizzyrea Ooo, yea that would be bad 05:44 eythian wizzyrea: I got something a bit more suggestive, in large letters on my screen :) 05:44 wizzyrea good night realfriends 05:44 wizzyrea good night botfriend 05:43 * wizzyrea pats wahanui 05:43 wahanui bonjour, wizzyrea 05:43 wizzyrea hi 05:43 cait hi eythian and wizzyrea 05:43 wizzyrea though I got ones like "bacon and eggs in a pan" 05:43 cait speaking of? 05:43 wizzyrea I suppose you're right 05:43 wizzyrea hmm 05:43 eythian speaking of, hi cait ;) 05:42 eythian wizzyrea: may not be safe for work :) 05:36 wizzyrea http://doodle.no.de/ 05:36 wizzyrea this is pretty entertaining 05:22 rangi right hometime 04:53 huginn wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. Quote #154 added. 04:53 wizzyrea @quote add rangi: it's destined to be an eternal mystery 04:48 rangi its destined to be an eternal mystery 04:46 wizzyrea hmm, i wonder if the faq helped help_koha 04:44 rangi :) 04:43 bg that was a bad one 04:43 bg heh 04:43 rangi i blame the samoan rugby team for that 04:42 eythian Oh, blue sky again 04:35 rangi i blame the russian rugby team 04:34 eythian nope 04:33 wizzyrea is hail common? 04:33 rangi and there it is 04:31 rangi hail again i bet 04:31 wizzyrea yikes 04:31 wizzyrea ohh 04:31 eythian yikes, that does look bad 04:31 rangi here comes another southerly front 04:31 rangi https://yfrog.com/kg1h3thj 04:30 wizzyrea ? 04:30 rangi oh joy 04:11 Oak how is rangi today :) 04:11 rangi hi Oak 04:08 Oak kia ora #koha 03:57 kmkale Thanks Irma.. 03:56 Irma ciao for now :-) 03:56 Irma kmhale You sure have our sympathy! yes ... 03:55 kmkale :) presently I am on post op meds. So I can hardly do much. Hopefully it will improve from tomorrow when I get off the heavy meds.. 03:55 Irma now I do and hurt myself far less because I can take the time to be more cautious 03:53 Irma kmkale I was not adding 5 minutes to every 1 hour task at first, but a broken arm does slow us down ... 03:52 kmkale heh Irma. good luck :) 03:51 Irma hi kmkale sorry to hear about your arm ... Guess what ... my cast is also coming off on the 26th (oh no now I read on and I see about the normal cast after the 26th :-() 03:51 rangi good blog post from gmcharlt 03:51 rangi http://galencharlton.com/blog/2011/09/embracing-politics/ 03:50 kmkale thanks 03:50 rangi i hope it has healed well 03:49 kmkale then a normal cast for 4 more weeks if it has healed well :( 03:49 kmkale so left fingers for now 03:49 rangi ahh thats no fun 03:49 kmkale huge cast till 26th. 03:48 rangi hows the arm? 03:48 rangi hey kmkale 03:42 eythian https://market.android.com/details?id=com.aldiko.android.oreilly.isbn9781449395285 <-- ah, and the one I was looking for in particular 03:40 eythian Yeah, it would be good to have an index of the epubs/pdfs somewhere. 03:39 wizzyrea nope. don't see any. Oh wait. 03:39 * wizzyrea looks around for people who write tools to catalogue books 03:39 rangi someones bound to have written something to do that 03:39 rangi we could even catalogue them 03:39 rangi drm free tho, so we could actually do a catalyst library of them i guess ;) 03:38 rangi heh yep 03:38 eythian Well, I keep going "oh, I need to know about /X/" and grabbing the book. 03:37 rangi too many things to buy? 03:35 eythian https://market.android.com/details?id=com.aldiko.android.oreilly.statisticshacks <-- this O'Reilly ebook thing is starting to become a Problem for me. 03:34 rangi Asmara Public Library 03:33 rangi ohh got a library in eritrea now 03:29 eythian I miss that. 03:29 eythian Where I used to live, venison was cheaper than beef. 03:28 bg plus vension 03:28 bg yeah elk 03:26 rangi i could go some ribs and some elk (it was elk we had eh) right about now 03:25 rangi i love that dog 03:25 rangi heh 03:24 bg I just broke the laser pointer out and Aloo is chasing it around… he's on full alert 03:23 bg yup 03:21 rangi miracle on ice ? 03:21 rangi yeah, that was the game the US one with the amateur team 03:21 rangi http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/09/vladimir-putin-action-man/100147/ 03:21 bg use vs. russia - is wicked famous here for hockey 03:20 rangi if putin was playing they would win for sure 03:20 rangi hehe 03:20 bg (I'm kidding) 03:20 rangi rugby 03:20 bg hockey? 03:20 eythian it'll be M.A.D. 03:20 rangi apparently Putins PA has flown in for the game 03:20 rangi bg: just working away, waiting for the USA vs Russia game tonight 03:19 rangi heya trea 03:19 trea o/ 03:19 bg wassup rangi 03:19 rangi b dawg 03:18 bg yo 03:18 wizzyrea hwaddup bg 03:13 wahanui bonjour, eythian 03:13 eythian hi wahanui 03:13 eythian bye wahanui1 03:10 bg heya wizzyrea 03:10 bg evening 02:52 help_koha thanks 02:50 wahanui1 hmmm... searching faq is at http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/searching/ 02:50 wizzyrea searching faq? 02:48 help_koha I can't search on my koha 02:47 huginn wizzyrea: Quote #145: "Don't ask to ask, just ask!" (added by wizzyrea at 02:37 PM, July 07, 2011) 02:47 wizzyrea @quote get 145 02:47 Danielle It was also one of these http://bit.ly/npA1PN (though the gasoline version of that model.) 02:47 help_koha I need support 02:46 wizzyrea go ahead :) 02:46 wizzyrea ohhh 02:46 help_koha I'm here to get help :) 02:46 wizzyrea :) 02:46 help_koha nope 02:46 help_koha goodday 02:46 wizzyrea are you here to help us? 02:45 help_koha hello! 02:43 wizzyrea :) 02:43 rangi ohh Danielle said bonnet 02:42 eythian there's your problem: that's the radiator cap, not the fuel cap! :) 02:39 Danielle It's truly something else to suddenly have flames above the fuel tank fill cap protruding through the bonnet ahead of you... 02:37 eythian :D 02:37 wizzyrea didn't want you to think no one was looking at it :) 02:37 eythian Let me know if any are missing, it's hard to spot them all. 02:37 eythian OK. 02:37 wizzyrea but I'll look at it more tomorrow 02:37 eythian Yeah, I've sworn off driving them when they're on fire. 02:37 wizzyrea I didn't get through all of the triggers 02:37 wizzyrea eythian: i was looking at the sound cues patch today 02:36 wizzyrea burning cars are scary imo 02:36 wizzyrea o my 02:35 eythian http://i.imgur.com/SxsGK.gif <-- there's some terrible people out there 02:01 rangi back