Time Nick Message
02:01 rangi back
02:35 eythian http://i.imgur.com/SxsGK.gif <-- there's some terrible people out there
02:36 wizzyrea o my
02:36 wizzyrea burning cars are scary imo
02:37 wizzyrea eythian: i was looking at the sound cues patch today
02:37 wizzyrea I didn't get through all of the triggers
02:37 eythian Yeah, I've sworn off driving them when they're on fire.
02:37 wizzyrea but I'll look at it more tomorrow
02:37 eythian OK.
02:37 eythian Let me know if any are missing, it's hard to spot them all.
02:37 wizzyrea didn't want you to think no one was looking at it :)
02:37 eythian :D
02:39 Danielle It's truly something else to suddenly have flames above the fuel tank fill cap protruding through the bonnet ahead of you...
02:42 eythian there's your problem: that's the radiator cap, not the fuel cap! :)
02:43 rangi ohh Danielle said bonnet
02:43 wizzyrea :)
02:45 help_koha hello!
02:46 wizzyrea are you here to help us?
02:46 help_koha goodday
02:46 help_koha nope
02:46 wizzyrea :)
02:46 help_koha I'm here to get help :)
02:46 wizzyrea ohhh
02:46 wizzyrea go ahead :)
02:47 help_koha I need support
02:47 Danielle It was also one of these http://bit.ly/npA1PN (though the gasoline version of that model.)
02:47 wizzyrea @quote get 145
02:47 huginn wizzyrea: Quote #145: "Don't ask to ask, just ask!" (added by wizzyrea at 02:37 PM, July 07, 2011)
02:48 help_koha I can't search on my koha
02:50 wizzyrea searching faq?
02:50 wahanui1 hmmm... searching faq is at http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/searching/
02:52 help_koha thanks
03:10 bg evening
03:10 bg heya wizzyrea
03:13 eythian bye wahanui1
03:13 eythian hi wahanui
03:13 wahanui bonjour, eythian
03:18 wizzyrea hwaddup bg
03:18 bg yo
03:19 rangi b dawg
03:19 bg wassup rangi
03:19 trea o/
03:19 rangi heya trea
03:20 rangi bg: just working away, waiting for the USA vs Russia game tonight
03:20 rangi apparently Putins PA has flown in for the game
03:20 eythian it'll be M.A.D.
03:20 bg hockey?
03:20 rangi rugby
03:20 bg (I'm kidding)
03:20 rangi hehe
03:20 rangi if putin was playing they would win for sure
03:21 bg use vs. russia - is wicked famous here for hockey
03:21 rangi http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/09/vladimir-putin-action-man/100147/
03:21 rangi yeah, that was the game the US one with the amateur team
03:21 rangi miracle on ice ?
03:23 bg yup
03:24 bg I just broke the laser pointer out and Aloo is chasing it around… he's on full alert
03:25 rangi heh
03:25 rangi i love that dog
03:26 rangi i could go some ribs and some elk (it was elk we had eh) right about now
03:28 bg yeah elk
03:28 bg plus vension
03:29 eythian Where I used to live, venison was cheaper than beef.
03:29 eythian I miss that.
03:33 rangi ohh got a library in eritrea now
03:34 rangi Asmara Public Library
03:35 eythian https://market.android.com/details?id=com.aldiko.android.oreilly.statisticshacks <-- this O'Reilly ebook thing is starting to become a Problem for me.
03:37 rangi too many things to buy?
03:38 eythian Well, I keep going "oh, I need to know about /X/" and grabbing the book.
03:38 rangi heh yep
03:39 rangi drm free tho, so we could actually do a catalyst library of them i guess ;)
03:39 rangi we could even catalogue them
03:39 rangi someones bound to have written something to do that
03:39 * wizzyrea looks around for people who write tools to catalogue books
03:39 wizzyrea nope. don't see any. Oh wait.
03:40 eythian Yeah, it would be good to have an index of the epubs/pdfs somewhere.
03:42 eythian https://market.android.com/details?id=com.aldiko.android.oreilly.isbn9781449395285 <-- ah, and the one I was looking for in particular
03:48 rangi hey kmkale
03:48 rangi hows the arm?
03:49 kmkale huge cast till 26th.
03:49 rangi ahh thats no fun
03:49 kmkale so left fingers for now
03:49 kmkale then a normal cast for 4 more weeks if it has healed well :(
03:50 rangi i hope it has healed well
03:50 kmkale thanks
03:51 rangi http://galencharlton.com/blog/2011/09/embracing-politics/
03:51 rangi good blog post from gmcharlt
03:51 Irma hi kmkale sorry to hear about your arm ... Guess what ... my cast is also coming off on the 26th (oh no now I read on and I see about the normal cast after the 26th :-()
03:52 kmkale heh Irma. good luck :)
03:53 Irma kmkale I was not adding 5 minutes to every 1 hour task at first, but a broken arm does slow us down ...
03:55 Irma now I do and hurt myself far less because I can take the time to be more cautious
03:55 kmkale :) presently I am on post op meds. So I can hardly do much. Hopefully it will improve from tomorrow when I get off the heavy meds..
03:56 Irma kmhale You sure have our sympathy! yes ...
03:56 Irma ciao for now :-)
03:57 kmkale Thanks Irma..
04:08 Oak kia ora #koha
04:11 rangi hi Oak
04:11 Oak how is rangi today :)
04:30 rangi oh joy
04:30 wizzyrea ?
04:31 rangi https://yfrog.com/kg1h3thj
04:31 rangi here comes another southerly front
04:31 eythian yikes, that does look bad
04:31 wizzyrea ohh
04:31 wizzyrea yikes
04:31 rangi hail again i bet
04:33 rangi and there it is
04:33 wizzyrea is hail common?
04:34 eythian nope
04:35 rangi i blame the russian rugby team
04:42 eythian Oh, blue sky again
04:43 rangi i blame the samoan rugby team for that
04:43 bg heh
04:43 bg that was a bad one
04:44 rangi :)
04:46 wizzyrea hmm, i wonder if the faq helped help_koha
04:48 rangi its destined to be an eternal mystery
04:53 wizzyrea @quote add rangi: it's destined to be an eternal mystery
04:53 huginn wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. Quote #154 added.
05:22 rangi right hometime
05:36 wizzyrea this is pretty entertaining
05:36 wizzyrea http://doodle.no.de/
05:42 eythian wizzyrea: may not be safe for work :)
05:43 eythian speaking of, hi cait ;)
05:43 wizzyrea hmm
05:43 wizzyrea I suppose you're right
05:43 cait speaking of?
05:43 wizzyrea though I got ones like "bacon and eggs in a pan"
05:43 cait hi eythian and wizzyrea
05:43 wizzyrea hi
05:43 wahanui bonjour, wizzyrea
05:43 * wizzyrea pats wahanui
05:44 wizzyrea good night botfriend
05:44 wizzyrea good night realfriends
05:44 eythian wizzyrea: I got something a bit more suggestive, in large letters on my screen :)
05:44 wizzyrea Ooo, yea that would be bad
05:44 wizzyrea REFRESH REFRESH
05:45 wizzyrea must have known I have "tender" eyes
05:45 * wizzyrea busts up laughing
05:45 eythian clearly :)
05:45 * cait wonders if she is still sleeping
05:45 wahanui i already had it that way, cait.
05:45 eythian in other news, I now have man pages autogenerating from docbook as part of the build process.
05:45 eythian hahah
05:46 wizzyrea hawt
05:46 wizzyrea I used schema.k-c.org today
05:46 wizzyrea super awesome happy fun time!
05:46 eythian yeah, nifty eh
05:46 wizzyrea way nifty
05:46 eythian should link to it from the reports page.
05:47 wizzyrea ooo
05:47 wizzyrea put a bug in to remind me
05:47 wizzyrea if you have a min
05:47 wizzyrea and I need to remember to put it on k-c.org too
05:47 wizzyrea it's like nearly 1am here
05:47 wizzyrea i'm in denial that I have to spend 6 hours in a car tomorrow
05:47 eythian OK
05:47 eythian I have 16 or 17 or so in a plane coming up :/
05:48 cait wizzyrea: go to bed!
05:48 wizzyrea but but
05:49 rangi brrrr
05:49 rangi tis cold out there
05:49 eythian my computer says 14. It may be lying htough
05:49 rangi I think it is
05:49 eythian wizzyrea: made and allocated to you
05:50 wizzyrea ty kindly
05:50 rangi @wunder wellington nz
05:50 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 10.0�C (5:00 PM NZST on September 15, 2011). Conditions: Rain Showers. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 8.0�C. Pressure: 29.42 in 996 hPa (Rising).
05:50 eythian metservice says 8, feels like 6.
05:50 rangi yeah that sounds right
05:51 rangi ok when ur moving cold waiting for the bus
05:51 cait wizzyrea: no buts - bed! :)
05:52 cait @wunder Konstanz
05:52 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 11.3�C (7:47 AM CEST on September 15, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1019.9 hPa (Rising).
05:52 cait oh
05:55 rangi hi laurence
05:55 laurence hi rangi
05:56 cait hi laurence
06:10 eythian magnuse: you've got email
06:10 magnuse yay
06:10 * magnuse runs to the inbox
06:11 magnuse eythian++
06:11 magnuse i'll give your patch a spin in a moment
06:11 eythian cool
06:12 cait :)
06:12 cait magnuse++ eythian++
06:12 magnuse yay
06:12 magnuse and hi cait
06:13 cait hi :)
06:13 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 4877] koha-* scripts have no manual pages <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4877>
06:28 alex_a hello
06:28 magnuse bonjour
06:30 cait hi alex_a
06:54 Irma Hi all
06:55 eythian hi Irma
06:55 Irma hi eythian
06:55 Irma how r u?
06:56 eythian Not too bad. Busy as ever.
06:57 Irma I get such vibes coming across the ditch ... But sounds like the business is paying off ;-)
06:57 Irma Is KohaCon2011 possible for you?
06:58 eythian yeah, we're going to be flat out until the end of the year at least we expect.
06:58 Irma correction: busyness not business
06:58 eythian Yep, I'm going. Chris isn't.
06:59 Irma Cool! Yes I know about Chris ...
06:59 Irma have you had your immunisations done yet? I am going tomorrow ... Bob too
07:00 eythian I haven't yet, the ones I got for the Solomon Islands should be all I need, but I have an appointment for next week to get a booster and see if there's anything else I should have.
07:02 Irma eythian it will be good to get it done! Just in case ...
07:03 Irma Koha question ... hourly circulation/lending is that more likely to be available in koha v 4?
07:03 Irma lending
07:03 Irma or before?
07:03 * magnuse admires the intrepid travellers
07:03 eythian Yeah, it can't hurt (well...) Also, I think by then I will have had everything I need for everywhere, except Africa (which would need a yellow fever one, too)
07:03 eythian Not sure, I haven't been following hourly loans.
07:04 eythian I guess there's a chance it'll get in to 3.6, I've seen work on it, but I don't know how far along it is.
07:04 Irma hi magnuse ;-)
07:04 magnuse hiya Irma
07:04 magnuse bug 5549
07:04 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5549 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, ian.walls, ASSIGNED , Hourly Loans
07:05 magnuse current status is "Failed QA"
07:07 reiveune hello
07:07 magnuse bonjour reiveune
07:07 reiveune :) Hi magnuse
07:08 Irma thanks eythian. NP. Most likely by the time this library has it's implementation in production it will be available .... there is much delay in their committing to Koha so far
07:10 Irma thanks magnuse for bug #
07:11 magnuse np
07:35 magnuse russia v.s. usa - that sounds kind of epic...
07:45 paul_p hello world. Live from the annual "librarian in universities association" conference. BibLibre has a booth
07:47 magnuse good luck with that, paul!
08:00 rangi 10-3 to the usa magnuse
08:01 magnuse but is it epic? ;-)
08:03 rangi pretty good game so far
08:03 rangi russia's first ever game in a world cup
08:03 rangi the russian deputy prime minister is here watching it
08:05 magnuse oh
08:05 magnuse is rugby a big game there?
08:05 rangi getting bigger all the time
08:05 rangi but its the first time they have managed to qualify
08:06 magnuse ah
08:07 rangi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_national_rugby_union_team
08:07 magnuse hm i think my preconceived notions about rugby and russians are sort of aligned with each other...
08:08 rangi romania and georgia are also in the world cup
08:08 magnuse yeah, i saw georgia on a list somewhere
08:09 kf hi #koha
08:09 rangi hi kf
08:09 kf hi rangi :)
08:09 magnuse there is a norwegian librarian who is doing a library project in a georgia prison, and wants to use koha for it :-)
08:09 kf one day away 120 mails + mailing lists...
08:09 rangi ah cool
08:09 kf magnuse: cool
08:10 magnuse we managed to find some georgia libraries already using it
08:10 magnuse searching for "koha georgia" was npt the way to do it ;-)
08:10 magnuse s/npt/not/
08:13 magnuse http://koha.iset.ge/ "Supported by BP, Government of Georgia, the Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, OSI, Sida, and the World Bank" yay
08:13 rangi ohh very cool
08:14 magnuse and this one looks cool: http://opac.kohamarc.sciencelib.ge/
08:15 rangi pretty old koha versions, but seem to be working fine for tme
08:15 rangi them
08:16 magnuse yeah, "if it works, don't fix it" seems to be quite a common stance...
08:18 rangi half time
08:18 magnuse huh - i just built koha-common off current master, with the patches for bug 4877
08:18 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4877 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, magnus, NEW , koha-* scripts have no manual pages
08:18 rangi yup?
08:18 magnuse and when i do "sudo dpkg -i" on a fresh vm i get lots of...
08:19 magnuse e.g. koha-common needs tinymce2 but tinymce2 is not installed?
08:19 rangi hmm
08:20 eythian magnuse: that's normal
08:20 rangi yup, thats quite normal
08:20 eythian it's because they're not installed
08:20 rangi try doing an apt-get -f install now
08:20 eythian what I do is do
08:20 eythian that
08:20 rangi and it should pull in all the dependencies
08:20 magnuse ah
08:20 rangi because you aren't apt-getting it, but dpkg -i it, it doesnt get a chance to pull in the dependencies
08:21 eythian (what I actually do is browse through the .deb itself usually to see what's in there)
08:21 magnuse it's been a while since i did it from scratch...
08:21 eythian (and sometimes kick it over to a staging server using repositories that we have here)
08:21 eythian now it's time to go home, been helping with a minor Stuff emergency
08:22 magnuse yay
08:22 eythian but, got two Koha things finished that I wanted to today, so that's all good :)
08:22 eythian oh, should email someone first...
08:27 eythian http://blackandwtf.tumblr.com/post/10204202171/1930s-a-cat-escapes-from-the-animal-rescue <-- home time now, but I'll leave you with this
08:28 rangi heh
08:28 magnuse :-)
08:29 magnuse ooh, ice cold whisky dispenser
08:47 magnuse what's the thing with libcgi-session-driver-memcached-perl again? the right version isn't in the debian repos yet or something?
08:51 Brooke kia ora
08:52 rangi thats right, but its at debian.koha-community.org
08:52 rangi hi Brooke
08:52 Brooke howdy
08:52 wahanui hello, Brooke
08:53 magnuse yup, i just added it to http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Building_Debian_Packages_-_The_Easy_Way#Deploy_the_packages
08:53 magnuse kia ora Brooke
09:16 Oak Hello Brooke
09:16 Brooke Oak :D
09:17 Oak :] good to see you as always
09:17 Brooke the feeling is mutual
09:17 Oak Guten Tag kf
09:17 Oak magnuse
09:18 Oak everyone
09:18 wahanui everyone is doin' the hot new dance the Cracked Out Kitty Tail Shiver
09:19 Oak oh Brooke. well, what can I say.
09:19 * Brooke titters.
09:21 Oak :)
09:21 magnuse Oak
09:30 kf hi Oak :)
09:30 kf hi Brooke
09:30 Oak :^)
09:30 Brooke 0/
09:37 magnuse time to vote, folks! http://survey.web2learning.net/limesurvey/index.php?sid=63529
09:38 Oak done :)
09:39 magnuse yay!
09:39 Oak me go now. dentist appointment...
09:41 kf ouch
09:41 kf good luck
09:41 kf magnuse: do we have a deadline for the vote?
09:41 Oak thanks
09:42 magnuse kf: october 1st was decided in a meeting a while back
09:43 kf ah ok
09:43 kf that's soon
09:44 magnuse 2 weeks and a couple of days?
09:44 kf yep
09:45 magnuse i'd say that is plenty
09:46 magnuse but it might be possible to extend it, i guess
09:46 rangi i think thats plenty
09:47 rangi but we probably need to say that in a follow up email?
09:47 * Brooke nods.
09:48 kf and what the survey is about
09:50 magnuse looks like git.koha-community.org has a problem
10:15 hdl hi
10:15 magnuse bonjour hdl
10:22 magnuse that's twitter in english and norwegian, facebook, google+, my company website and the norwegian koha email-list done... anything i forgot?
10:22 rangi heh nope
10:29 magnuse forgot the wiki...
10:51 kf magnuse++
12:16 jwagner Morning, folks. Got a question from one of my libraries. They've bought an iPad2 for staff use in the stacks and are trying to find a browser for it that would work with Koha. I've never used or even seen an iPad -- any ideas?
12:22 magnuse jwagner: does that mean the default browser (safari?) does not work?
12:23 oleonard it certainly should
12:23 jwagner magnuse, I don't know -- didn't get that far with them.
12:23 jwagner They said they couldn't find a version of Firefox for it
12:23 oleonard They just don't understand that Safari is a standards-compliant browser. it will work.
12:24 jwagner OK, good news, thanks. I'll tell them.
12:24 * magnuse breathes a sigh of relief...
12:27 * oleonard can use the Koha staff client on his first-generation iPod Touch
12:27 oleonard ...although I wouldn't want to do cataloging with it :|
12:27 magnuse hehe
12:27 jwagner Then it should be fine. I'm not sure what they're going to do with it in the stacks. Play games? :-)
12:28 jwagner Or maybe take inventory, etc.
12:28 magnuse could be that ;-)
12:28 oleonard I take the holds queue report with me while I pull books from the shelf
12:29 magnuse http://lib1point5.wordpress.com/2011/08/16/ipad-in-my-library/
12:29 magnuse "Free range librarians"
12:37 oleonard git.koha-community.org down?
12:38 magnuse looked like it earlier today
13:02 * oleonard grumbles
13:02 hdl hi oleonard
13:02 oleonard Hi hdl
13:03 hdl :D
13:04 sekjal morning, everyone!
13:04 magnuse kia ora sekjal
13:09 sekjal just so everyone's aware, I'm rebooting git.koha-community.org, since it's stopped responding. hopefully won't take much longer to come back up
13:16 * kf crosses fingers
13:16 kf and hi sekjal
13:17 sekjal back up
13:17 sekjal (hi kf)
13:19 kf yay :)
13:19 Danielle o/
13:20 kf hi Danielle
13:20 kf morning libsysguy
13:21 kf hi atz_
13:21 libsysguy morning kf
13:21 libsysguy @later tell rangi not cool man...not cool
13:21 huginn libsysguy: The operation succeeded.
13:22 magnuse what did rangi do now?
13:22 kf causing earthquakes it seems
13:22 magnuse ouch?
13:23 kf ah no, that was someone else
13:25 libsysguy he was sending me messages about vomit
13:25 libsysguy typical rangi
13:26 kf ?
13:26 magnuse not sure i want to know the rest of it... ;-)
13:26 libsysguy I have a super weak stomach when it comes to blood and puke
13:27 libsysguy so he spammed me with puke comments
13:27 libsysguy haha
13:28 kf yeah, sounds like rangi
13:28 libsysguy heh
13:28 libsysguy yeah it does
13:28 kf and still... we like him
13:28 libsysguy because he pushes our packages
13:28 libsysguy we really shouldn't take that last comment out of context
13:29 libsysguy heh
13:29 kf nah, not only because of pushing our patches
13:30 libsysguy because of his excellent selection of soundcloud music?
13:31 libsysguy jk I have love for rangi too
13:31 kf see, there is one reason
13:31 kf jk?
13:31 Danielle heh
13:32 libsysguy jk = just kidding
13:32 libsysguy what is collin's username?
13:32 libsysguy colin**
13:32 kf @seen Colin
13:32 huginn kf: Colin was last seen in #koha 36 weeks, 0 days, 15 hours, 29 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <Colin> Colin Campbell, PTFS Europe Ltd
13:33 libsysguy wow...
13:33 libsysguy Colin++ for my hourly patch
13:33 kf @seen ColinC
13:33 huginn kf: ColinC was last seen in #koha 1 week, 0 days, 18 hours, 7 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <ColinC> +1
13:33 kf oh
13:33 kf was he abelt o fix your problemß
13:34 libsysguy it looks like it...and he used my suggestion so that basically makes me happy
13:34 libsysguy I always hate touching somebody else's code that they are currently working on...its like asking someone if you can hold their kid
13:35 kf lol
13:35 kf @quote add libsysguy: I always hate touching somebody else's code that they are currently working on...its like asking someone if you can hold their kid
13:35 huginn kf: The operation succeeded. Quote #155 added.
13:35 kf and a nice number you got!
13:36 kf @quote show 155
13:36 huginn kf: downloading the Perl source
13:36 kf @quote 155
13:36 huginn kf: I suck
13:36 kf grrr
13:36 magnuse @quote get 155
13:36 huginn magnuse: Quote #155: "libsysguy: I always hate touching somebody else's code that they are currently working on...its like asking someone if you can hold their kid" (added by kf at 01:35 PM, September 15, 2011)
13:36 kf get
13:36 kf ... time to go home
13:36 libsysguy haha later kf
13:36 kf yep for the meeting :)
13:36 kf bye!
13:39 Oak hello #koha
13:39 Danielle Hi Oak
13:39 magnuse Oak
13:39 Oak oh hello Danielle :)
13:39 Oak magnuse
13:41 Oak Danielle, where are you from?
13:52 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6872] Can't set default SMS messaging options when defining a patron category <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6872>
13:53 Danielle Oak: North Carolina, USA.
13:54 Danielle Oak: If it helps matters, I used to use "agentdani" here."
13:54 Oak aah
13:54 Oak yes, it helped.
13:54 Oak Agent Dani is what I'm familiar with
13:55 Danielle :D
13:55 rhcl_away hey oak, what's up?
13:55 Oak nothing much rhcl_away :)
13:55 Oak electricity will probably go out in 2 minutes...
13:56 Oak it's 6:59 pm here... so nothing much. listening to music.
13:56 Oak what about you rhcl_away ?
14:03 rhcl_away same old stuff here
14:03 rhcl oh, he's gone
14:04 cait hi rhcl, hi koha
14:15 rhcl hi hi cait
14:36 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6842] Branch transfer limits broken <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6842>
14:38 cait oh good
14:54 gmcharlt verify, a miracle has occurred - https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=454532
14:54 huginn 04Bug 454532: was not found.
14:54 gmcharlt *verily
14:56 libsysguy ok so we've been having this issue with hourly loans and fines since the fines script runs in the cron
14:56 libsysguy it is rather bothersom when you have to tell a patron that they have to wait 30 minutes to pay their overdue fine
14:56 * wizzyrea doesn't understand the context of gmcharlt's chorus of angels
14:56 libsysguy so I'm wondering if anyone is opposed to adding a call to see if overdues and fines when an item is turned in
14:56 wizzyrea libsysguy: true
14:57 wizzyrea or a separate cron for hourly loans
14:57 libsysguy even then there is still a delay
14:57 libsysguy this would make it instant
14:57 gmcharlt wizzyrea: the upshot is that it fixes a rather longstanding bug in Firefox (and xulrunner) that could play hash with trying to print on old receipt printers
14:57 wizzyrea AHA
14:57 libsysguy and reduce load on the system by reducing the amount of calls to fines
14:58 * wizzyrea doesn't know enough about it to have an opinion
14:58 rhcl gmcharlt: does the OS matter (bug sez XP)?
14:58 libsysguy hmm sekjal you around with an opinion
14:58 gmcharlt rhcl: I suspect it applies to any recent windows
14:59 oleonard libsysguy: That seems like an awfully open-ended question.
14:59 libsysguy oh God...what have I done
14:59 sekjal libsysguy: there has been some call for doing a fines calculation on-demand, instead of just on cron
14:59 rhcl I really want to become the world expert on printing from linux/koha to receipt printers. We've been unsuccessful so far, and I need to take a look at the issue.
14:59 libsysguy sekjal will have syslock when he starts typing with all his opinions :p
15:00 libsysguy sekjal I think there will be more of a call when we push hourly
15:00 sekjal agreed
15:00 sekjal so it can either be event driven (checkin, etc) or scheduled (on cron)
15:01 libsysguy so do you think it should be a separate bug or included in hourly. Also I think it should be both
15:01 wizzyrea I, for one, would have to *know* that it wasn't going to make checkin excessively slow
15:01 libsysguy just a nightly cron
15:01 sekjal cron is kind of limited, since you have to schedule it, and there is at least 1 min max wait-time
15:02 sekjal and running it every minute could produce a lot of excess load on the system
15:02 libsysguy well it would be the time to do an overdue lookup on that item then the time to run calcfine
15:02 libsysguy i can run 300+ overdues in under 15 s
15:02 libsysguy sekjal exactly
15:02 libsysguy that is why I have it set to 30 mins currently
15:02 libsysguy but that is making the librarians mad
15:02 libsysguy and are sharpening their pitchforks
15:03 sekjal what system events would we want to trigger on?
15:03 sekjal checkin is a good candidate
15:03 sekjal patron details page load?
15:03 libsysguy I think checkin is a must
15:03 wizzyrea patron fines page load
15:03 wizzyrea not details
15:03 wizzyrea (imo)
15:04 libsysguy how about anywhere the overdues check gets called?
15:04 libsysguy that makes logical sense (imo)
15:04 wizzyrea it makes sense to me to do it anywhere you could do something with a fine
15:05 wizzyrea so, fines tab, really.
15:05 sekjal ideally, I'd like it to be up to date every time you check, no matter what vector you come in from
15:05 libsysguy ^^
15:05 wizzyrea the details page only shows the total due
15:05 wizzyrea on it's fines tab
15:06 wizzyrea I'd just as soon get rid of that tab, as the fines tab on the side shows the detail view
15:06 libsysguy I also agree with that
15:06 sekjal put it behind an AJAX-y widget
15:06 * sekjal <3's his vaporware AJAX widgets
15:07 wizzyrea http://screencast.com/t/izGTBVF1a
15:09 sekjal that tab is pretty useless
15:09 wizzyrea *nod* idk why anybody would use it, honestly
15:09 wizzyrea the others are fie
15:09 wizzyrea fine*
15:09 oleonard Instant gratification?
15:10 cait to see te total quickly
15:10 cait I think it's ok where it is
15:10 cait we have it in the patron account too (and sometimes I hide the fines tab there because it's so confusng and untranslated)
15:10 libsysguy but the total is below all the charges
15:10 wizzyrea and it slows down the load of that page
15:10 cait libsysguy: I think the important thing is that the fine does not show up on return - but in the moment it occurs
15:10 wizzyrea and we have a whole beautiful tab
15:11 wizzyrea devoted to fines
15:11 cait libsysguy: if this can not be done reasonable with a cron we need another solution
15:11 libsysguy then I think we need another solution
15:11 cait wizzyrea: another reason: because when you print that page
15:12 cait wizzyrea: you can give the patron a lot of the information that is saved about him in the system
15:12 libsysguy because with hourly it will be almost impossible to catch the fine when it occurs
15:12 cait and that is something we need to be able to do
15:12 * wizzyrea wonders if the print page is actually dependent on what is shown on this page
15:12 libsysguy you will always have to be watching
15:12 cait the tabs print differently
15:13 cait hm
15:13 cait wizzyrea: perhaps you are right
15:13 cait about removing it
15:13 cait but I always kind of liked it
15:16 wizzyrea it doesn't have any functionality that I can discern, besides showing the total?
15:16 sekjal I think for hourly, we'll either need to run fines on a minutely cron, or else have a daemon
15:16 cait *giggles*
15:17 wizzyrea cait we're talking about print -> print page, righ
15:17 wizzyrea right?
15:17 libsysguy why can't we just run the overdue function when we do a checkin?
15:17 cait we were
15:18 wizzyrea ok then yea
15:18 wizzyrea that comes from a diff template
15:18 cait libsysguy: because you will still want to calculate and report on fines before that
15:18 libsysguy right
15:18 libsysguy so run a nightly cron
15:18 wizzyrea well a compromise would be
15:18 libsysguy just like you would now
15:18 wizzyrea if the loan is hourly, compute the fine now
15:18 cait or that deamon thing
15:18 wizzyrea if not
15:18 wizzyrea don't
15:18 cait sounds fun too
15:18 cait i was just reading about daemons - that's why I was giggling
15:19 wizzyrea but i'm not sure there's a way to differentiate a type of loan
15:19 * cait is reading 'city of glass'
15:19 wizzyrea oo
15:19 cait horizon did that
15:19 cait calculated the hourly loans on return
15:20 cait but people never knew what was waiting for them in the library
15:20 libsysguy so did symphony
15:20 libsysguy cait I don't understand
15:20 cait and you could not send out notices for the fines with the amounts in them
15:20 cait and it was all kind of trouble
15:20 cait waiting = fines waiting
15:20 cait unpleasant surprises
15:20 sekjal our circulation rules are configured so that fines accrue on a schedule
15:21 sekjal possibly because of history
15:21 sekjal but also, that makes sense
15:21 cait answering questions like: why can i see that fine but not the other on my borrower account and so on
15:21 cait oh
15:21 sekjal every X minutes, charge Y fee
15:22 sekjal since hourly loans is really minutely-loans, we need a minutely cron to preserve what we're doing
15:22 wizzyrea http://screencast.com/t/SPQT626KqBg for cait
15:22 wizzyrea is what print page looks like
15:22 cait from fines?
15:22 cait tag?
15:22 cait tab?
15:22 wizzyrea nope, from the patron detail page
15:23 cait ah
15:23 cait looks nice
15:23 wizzyrea well, from all tabs
15:23 wizzyrea it calls a totally separate template
15:23 cait but that's checkouts, right?
15:23 cait not fines, address, holds and all that
15:23 cait oh, I see
15:23 cait does that make sense?
15:23 cait why not use a print css?
15:23 libsysguy sekjal do we really charge based on that
15:24 libsysguy I thought it was every X minutes check for new fines
15:24 libsysguy -> apply them
15:24 wizzyrea all good questions, not sure I have answers
15:24 sekjal libsysguy: yes, true
15:24 wizzyrea but, what I mean is
15:24 wizzyrea the tab on the patron detail
15:24 wizzyrea shows less detail than the print page
15:25 wizzyrea so the printing argument, I don't think it holds
15:25 libsysguy so I guess I'm a little confused as to what you are proposing we do with the daemon
15:25 cait wizzyrea: ok :)
15:25 cait libsysguy: immediate fining!
15:26 wizzyrea not trying to be a jerk or anything
15:26 wizzyrea :)
15:26 libsysguy but wouldn't doing a system call do the same thing?
15:27 * wizzyrea imagines steam coming out of libsysguy's ears
15:28 wizzyrea :)
15:28 libsysguy basically
15:28 sekjal I'm looking at all as triggers and actions
15:28 libsysguy its been a rough morning
15:28 * wizzyrea gives libsysguy a hot cup of tea and a cookie
15:28 * libsysguy accepts wizzyrea's tokens
15:28 wizzyrea and permission to wield the double bird and spin
15:29 sekjal if we only triggered on checkin or overdues or the loading of the patrons' fine page, then any other vector for approaching the question "what fines does this patron have AS OF RIGHT NOW?" wouldn't be accurate
15:29 sekjal it would be on us to think of every single place where that question could be asked, and include the logic to update the fines before asking
15:29 libsysguy oh...well I was thinking that we would still be running the cron and those checkin operations
15:29 sekjal a more thorough method would be to do this on a cron every minute, or with a daemon
15:30 * libsysguy is a daemon newb :'(
15:30 reiveune bye
15:30 wizzyrea seriously has anyone ever heard him say anything but bye?
15:30 sekjal I imagine the daemon option is not going to be very viable
15:30 libsysguy not I
15:30 sekjal for systems with many, many overdues, keeping track of all those patrons in the daemon's memory would be... expensive
15:31 wizzyrea ^^
15:31 libsysguy I think setting the cron to run every minute is also very expensive
15:31 sekjal yes
15:31 sekjal unless it's a VERY efficient cron
15:31 wizzyrea could hourly have it's own minute - running cron?
15:31 sekjal s/cron/script/
15:31 wizzyrea something that only looks at short-term loans
15:32 libsysguy so the issue I see with minutely cron is that when a patron checks in and they are overdue there is still a possible 60s window for not fines being charged
15:33 sekjal yes
15:33 sekjal but that may be unavoidable
15:33 sekjal and how much is a patron charged per second?
15:33 libsysguy if they are overdue by a second its a 50 cent fine then its based on whatever interval
15:34 sekjal is it really worth it to be that draconian?
15:34 libsysguy but I think the real issue that I have is a patron would have to stand at the circ desk for an additional (possible) minute to pay thier fine
15:34 libsysguy to the librarians I work with...yes
15:34 wizzyrea this is a people issue
15:34 wizzyrea not a technology problem
15:34 libsysguy ^^
15:35 wizzyrea if they know that people are x minutes overdue
15:35 wizzyrea or they are 30s late with their return
15:35 wizzyrea they know they'r going to get a 50c fine
15:35 wizzyrea why not take the money
15:35 wizzyrea and apply it once the fine appears
15:35 libsysguy sorry...I don't mean to sound so animated about this
15:35 wizzyrea all good :)
15:35 libsysguy I brought that up
15:35 libsysguy but then they have to remember
15:35 wizzyrea for a single minute :)
15:35 libsysguy and when the line is long that could turn into 15
15:36 wizzyrea and in most cases lest
15:36 wizzyrea less
15:36 sekjal libsysguy: perhaps explaining to them how many hours it's going to take to fix this, and the hourly cost of development, and weigh that in terms of how much extra money they'll wind up bringing in with fines
15:36 wizzyrea ^^
15:36 sekjal I mean, 50 cents per second is a pretty good hourly rate
15:37 * magnuse buts in to remind everyone to vote for KohaCon12 location http://survey.web2learning.net/limesurvey/index.php?sid=63529
15:37 libsysguy but what I am proposing is no change to the current cron system and one extra call in the checkin function
15:37 wizzyrea well, 50 cents for the first second overdue
15:37 * magnuse buts out agin
15:37 wizzyrea then 50 cents per minute, right?
15:38 wizzyrea basically, the fine is applied at the beginning of every minute, instead of the end
15:38 sekjal libsysguy: so, keep the minutely cron, and also have a manual update call when the patron page loans? so those last-minute fines are guaranteed to show up?
15:39 * oleonard wonders if all the people who voted in the KohaCon11 survey will be voting this time
15:39 libsysguy right
15:39 libsysguy (I think)
15:39 wizzyrea the patron page or the fines tab?
15:39 libsysguy the patrons page only
15:40 wizzyrea I think fines tab, because you have to go there to pay fines anyway
15:40 libsysguy details
15:40 wizzyrea if they're trying to pay the fine they just got
15:40 libsysguy or...acutally just on check in
15:40 wizzyrea that's the only place to do it
15:40 sekjal what about checkout?
15:40 libsysguy why not just update when the barcode is scanned in
15:40 sekjal what if that extra 50 cents just put them over the maximum limit, and they're now blocked?
15:40 libsysguy what about checkout?
15:41 libsysguy so they have an item that seconds before they checkout another item goes overdue
15:41 libsysguy and a fine gets assessed
15:42 * wizzyrea wonders idly how other ils's dealt with the problem
15:42 wizzyrea gmcharlt does evergreen do hourly loans yet?
15:42 * libsysguy was doing that same thing wizzyrea
15:43 wizzyrea i'll give it a minute then ask in #evergreen ;)
15:43 cait and total on the details page...
15:43 wizzyrea ok wait a sec
15:44 wizzyrea sorry I had a thought and then someone walked in
15:44 wizzyrea >.<
15:44 wizzyrea so now it's gone.
15:44 wizzyrea bleh
15:44 libsysguy x_x
15:48 gmcharlt wizzyrea: yep (actually, it has for a long time)
15:49 wizzyrea gmcharlt, do you have a minute to enlighten us as to how it works?
15:49 wizzyrea with minutely fines
15:51 gmcharlt wizzyrea: basically, fines are calculated one of two ways -- via a cron job (for generating estimated fines) and upon checkin
15:52 wizzyrea there you have it :)
15:52 gmcharlt at the point of checkout, a loan in Evergreen records it's fining interval, which can be expressed as any valid interval
15:52 libsysguy that is exactly what I was proposing I thought
15:52 gmcharlt and that gets used when calculating the number of fine billings to add
15:53 Oak hello #koha
15:53 Oak Evening cait
15:53 wizzyrea and that process is the same for every item?
15:53 libsysguy btw sekjal...of you are interested in just how crazy the people I work with are just ask druthb lol
15:53 wizzyrea not just hourlies, but regular checkins too
15:54 wizzyrea libsysguy: I only have the requirement that it doesn't inordinately slow down checkin.
15:54 wizzyrea the rest, idc about as much.
15:55 sekjal wizzyrea: it would add whatever processing time it takes to run the fines update subroutine
15:55 wizzyrea I do think that the fines tab on the patron detail is pointless
15:55 sekjal so, as long as that's as efficient as possible....
15:55 wizzyrea checkouts and holds make sense to me :)
15:55 wizzyrea but not the fines tab
15:56 wizzyrea but that's kind of a separate issue
15:56 wizzyrea thanks gmcharlt
15:56 wizzyrea very enlightening
15:56 libsysguy so basically don't add more than a second to checkin...got it :)
15:57 wizzyrea yes, exactly.
15:57 gmcharlt wizzyrea: sekjal: one thing about calculating fines on checkin -- that *is* something that's been the target of various performance tweaks over the years to avoid too much of a performance penalty when checking in an item that has been long overdue
15:58 wizzyrea which is why I was wondering if a check to see if the fine *needed* to be calculated now (in the case of a per-minute loan, for example) might be faster than calculating for everything
15:58 wizzyrea that crosses the scanner gun
16:00 cait perhaps it could be an option?
16:00 cait if we are going to keep the cron and other libraries are not so crazy about fines?
16:01 cait fine calculation on checkin I mean
16:01 sekjal cait++
16:01 wizzyrea yea that's a good idea
16:01 wizzyrea and with that, I bid you adieu - i'm off to talk to librarians about online security
16:01 cait :)
16:01 cait hf
16:01 gmcharlt cait: and possibly a session option - if you're checking in a bunch of items from the bookdrop, you don't necessarily need the fines to be calculated instantly
16:02 libsysguy or you could do it on itemtype
16:02 cait gmcharlt: makes sense!
16:02 gmcharlt whereas if a patron is standing in front of you wondering if they're going to ahve to take out a second mortgage, enable on the spot calculation
16:02 cait hehe
16:02 gmcharlt of course, however it gets done, it does all need to be finsihed up before fine notices are sent out that day
16:03 cait hm, but will the checkin fine not be harder to him then?
16:03 cait because it will catch even a second more lateness?
16:03 gmcharlt cait: the calculation would have to be based on the checkin timestamp, even if the calculation itself occurs later
16:04 cait hm
16:04 libsysguy ^^
16:04 cait i woul dthink
16:04 cait and think this is like it worked for us
16:04 gmcharlt of course, somebody who drops an hourly loan into the book drop ... perhaps deserves what they get charged ;)
16:04 cait that checked in items should not get fines
16:04 cait never
16:04 cait so if someone checks the book on before the cronjob does its round - he is ok with the fine that was on the book on checkin
16:08 JoeLib001 Hi, I am looking for information on Migrating Data for Serials Titles from an Excel file to Koha. Is there a tutorial or even a pointer in the right direction? I have Koha installed correctly and I am able to add bib records and attach subscriptions to those.
16:11 JoeLib001 Is there a good explanation of what should go in each MySQL Table and Field?
16:11 cait I think for serials not yet
16:11 cait I woul dadd some subscriptions into koha and try to figure out from there
16:12 cait schema.koha-community.org
16:12 cait will show you the tables, but not all tables have been commented yet
16:15 JoeLib001 Thanks for the pointer. :-) I will poke my head in the hole and hope it's not for a guillotine. hehe. :-)
16:32 kmkale hi cait gmcharlt
16:34 cait hi kmkale
16:35 gmcharlt hi kmkale
16:36 kmkale hi paul_p
17:02 libsysguy what function(s) controls checkin/checkout
17:03 sekjal checkin: AddReturn()
17:03 sekjal checkout: AddIssue()
17:04 libsysguy sekjal++
17:12 Brooke kia ora
17:17 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 5549] Hourly Loans <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5549>
17:42 Brooke marthakanter++
18:02 cait here
18:02 slef cait: there?
18:02 wahanui somebody said there was no spoon.
18:03 sekjal and this is why we keep you around, wahanui
18:03 wahanui ...but this is something we have to talk about...
18:03 oleonard-away wahanui has turned into a chat bot
18:03 wahanui oleonard-away: excuse me?
18:03 cait slef: hi slef
18:03 Brooke wahanui forget this
18:03 wahanui Brooke: I forgot this
18:04 cait only showing libsysguy I am here :P
18:04 slef wahanui: rangi?
18:04 wahanui I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS! or at work
18:05 Brooke forget rangi
18:05 wahanui Brooke: I forgot rangi
18:05 cait no Brooke...
18:05 slef who is supposedly running this meeting
18:05 cait rangi is I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS!
18:05 cait rangi?
18:05 wahanui somebody said rangi was I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS!
18:05 cait hm
18:05 slef Brooke is the lobotomy-mistress
18:05 cait forget rangi
18:05 wahanui cait: I forgot rangi
18:05 cait Brooke: you broke the joke
18:06 cait rangi <reply> I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS!
18:06 slef wahanui: rangi is <reply> I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS!
18:06 wahanui OK, slef.
18:06 Brooke I also broke the interwebs, so watch it ;)
18:06 cait rangi?
18:06 wahanui I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS!
18:06 cait phew
18:06 cait we saved the world
18:06 slef cait is our saviour
18:06 cait slef: I thought libsysguy
18:06 slef who?
18:06 slef ah, wahanui is too smart
18:07 cait wondering where he is
18:07 Brooke natec?
18:07 wahanui I LIKE SPACE!
18:07 cait hm sekjal?
18:07 wahanui hmmm... sekjal is someone's favorite propeller-head.
18:07 sekjal I'm here
18:07 sekjal sans propeller
18:07 slef I mean, http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Notifications_RFC sort of fits into a general need to overhaul and generalise notifications doesn't it? Multiple notice types, multiple send methods, consistent TT templating
18:08 cait yeah
18:08 Brooke slef get to the meeting later ;)
18:08 cait but that's not bad
18:08 slef dare I mention hooks or triggers again? I don't think I've tried that for a few years
18:08 cait dreaming up what we want it to do
18:08 Brooke mention away
18:08 cait now we have to find a way to get it done
18:08 * Brooke agrees with cait.
18:08 cait in the database?
18:09 cait we talked about actions and triggers
18:09 cait but more flexible than the notice triggers are now
18:09 slef nah, in the modules (in the koha sense, not the perl sense)
18:09 cait some notices wired to actions, like checkout, checkin etc.
18:09 Brooke http://typewith.me/3gYf6ozqf4
18:09 cait slef: only wanted to make sure :)
18:10 slef oh wait I'm being dense
18:10 Brooke I'm chronically dense. At least your condition is acute.
18:10 slef awww, I'm a cute?
18:11 Brooke nope. That'd get me in trouble with the little missus.
18:11 slef the OO way is probably to replace the C4 class with something that extends it and adds the extra actions you want
18:11 slef as well as a call back to the C4 class
18:12 slef the bit I forget is how to make your extended class get called instead of the C4 base one
18:12 slef the other way to do it is with hooks, like wordpress
18:12 cait now you confused me
18:12 cait you should talk to ian like that :)
18:12 * sekjal isn't good with OO Perl yet
18:13 slef http://codex.wordpress.org/Plugin_API#Hooks.2C_Actions_and_Filters
18:13 slef cait: I confuse myself. Why should you escape?
18:13 sekjal but Wordpress's hooks and filters are pretty great. I'd like to see more of that
18:13 cait slef: good reasoning
18:14 slef sekjal: they're awful PHP kludges trying to make up for a braindead implementation environment. Python does this so much better. Aha! That's how we do it!
18:14 sekjal migrate Koha to Python?
18:14 slef nah, but same method will work
18:14 slef in python we do things like this
18:14 * slef rummages
18:15 cait uhoh
18:15 slef http://packages.python.org/django-mothertongue/setup.html#setup
18:15 libsysguy hey guys
18:15 slef so we have TEMPLATE_CONTEXT_PROCESSORS that say what modules do the templating
18:15 Brooke hi dude
18:15 libsysguy sorry I had someone in my office
18:15 slef libsysguy: fnarr
18:15 Brooke use the trap door, I keep tellin' ye.
18:16 slef oh I used to have a good trick
18:16 cait keep the headset on
18:16 slef screen facing the door, Moire screensaver kicking in after 2mins
18:16 cait and pretend you are on the phone?
18:16 slef few people can stand psychadelia over the shoulder of the person they're trying to talk to
18:17 slef which let me interrupt and move the conversation to its conclusion
18:17 slef so libsysguy are you OK with the meetingbot?
18:18 libsysguy meetingbot?
18:18 libsysguy yeah sure i guess
18:18 cait the bot we use to log irc meetings
18:18 libsysguy oh yeah thats coo
18:18 Brooke http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
18:18 * cait volunteers slef to chair
18:18 slef wahanui: meetingbot?
18:18 wahanui wish i knew, slef
18:19 slef wahanui: meetbot instructions?
18:19 wahanui i don't know, slef
18:19 Brooke so easy a caveman like me can use it.
18:19 slef wahanui: meetbot?
18:19 wahanui wish i knew, slef
18:19 * slef kills wahanui
18:19 Brooke wahanui meetbot is http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
18:19 wahanui OK, Brooke.
18:19 cait oh no, you don't
18:19 libsysguy bad slef
18:19 cait he is still small
18:19 cait be nice
18:19 slef wahanui: meetbot is also http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/Semi-automatic-minutes-for-IRC-meetings-on-koha-td3264811.html
18:19 wahanui okay, slef.
18:19 Brooke I dun wanna be nice, he resembles his namesake XD
18:19 * sekjal wishes he could share his dry erase board live with everyone
18:20 slef hrm, not sure I should chair... can't promise I won't go to dinner
18:20 Brooke twitpic!
18:20 libsysguy that would be cool
18:20 cait there are programs for that, you know
18:20 slef sekjal: http://whiteboard.debian.net/
18:21 Brooke slef: no pictahs
18:21 libsysguy we use lync here with whiteoard sharing
18:21 libsysguy works pretty well
18:21 sekjal we've got several pieces identified from last meeting
18:21 slef pretty sure it doesn't ;-)
18:22 sekjal and I think a diagram would be the best way to show the relationships between them
18:22 slef ok, shall I start as chair and drop cait or Brooke in it if I leave?
18:22 libsysguy cool with me
18:22 slef Do we have an agenda, time limits or something like?
18:22 cait me too
18:22 cait not yet
18:22 slef #startmeeting
18:22 huginn Meeting started Thu Sep 15 18:22:02 2011 UTC. The chair is slef. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:22 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:22 cait last time we created the document
18:22 cait altogether
18:22 slef #chair cait Brooke
18:22 huginn Current chairs: Brooke cait slef
18:23 cait not sure we can make that work agai nfor us
18:23 slef ok, is that what's on the wiki?
18:23 cait probably need more of a chat this time - but we could still use the tool
18:23 sekjal #info last meeting's document found at: http://typewith.me/3gYf6ozqf4
18:23 slef #topic Introductions
18:23 slef please introduce yourself with #info if you want to be recorded
18:23 sekjal #info Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions, Koha 3.6 QA Manager
18:24 libsysguy #info Elliott Davis, University of Texas at Tyler, Developer
18:24 cait hm
18:24 slef #info MJ Ray, software.coop, delaying dinner because this stuff's important, you know?
18:24 cait #info Katrin Fischer
18:24 slef ok, late entrants can intro themselves later
18:25 slef #topic What we want to cover this meeting
18:25 slef so sekjal has pasted a link to something
18:25 slef it's not loading for me... I'm just going to kick browser permissions to try to see it...
18:25 libsysguy right the link to the collaboration document
18:26 Brooke #link http://typewith.me/3gYf6ozqf4
18:26 cait I thought it was on the wiki too, but can't find it right now
18:26 libsysguy it was there
18:26 Brooke the wiki was revolting
18:26 libsysguy but the other day I checked and it was gone
18:26 Brooke it kept handling things like i was editing a template
18:26 Brooke so chris moved stuff
18:26 slef #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Notifications_RFC
18:27 Brooke but really, someone should fix the forkin wiki
18:27 slef is what I saw
18:27 cait that's the document that was started from the mailing list thread
18:27 cait the typewithme is from our first meeting
18:27 slef Brooke: I think I'm compelled to say about all mediawiki problems: I told you so. ;-)
18:27 Brooke http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Messaging_rewrite_RFC
18:27 libsysguy so in this meeting we are supposed to start planning the steps right?
18:28 slef that seems like a good idea
18:28 sekjal I'm looking at data structure first
18:28 libsysguy did you say you had that on a whiteboard sekjal?
18:28 sekjal I'm drawing it on the one on my wall behind my desk
18:29 libsysguy haha you need one of those smartboards
18:29 cait hm
18:29 sekjal yes
18:29 cait make us a phoot?
18:29 cait photo...
18:29 slef http://imgur.com/ or similar?
18:29 libsysguy because I am having trouble seeing the one on your desk
18:29 cait I know what you mean,might need new glasses
18:29 cait ;)
18:29 libsysguy or we could huddle in G+ and watch sekjal on his webcam
18:29 sekjal I could turn on my webcam, but... then you'd see the rest of my horrible office
18:30 slef #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Messaging_rewrite_RFC
18:30 * cait chants webcam webcam..
18:30 * libsysguy joins cait's chat....webcam webcam...
18:30 slef [off] http://media.rightmove.co.uk/77k/76325/19937445/76325_APW0418_IMG_06_0000_max_620x414.JPG
18:31 slef there I've showed you mine, now you show me yours
18:31 slef magnus_away: we can seeeeee you
18:32 slef So which came first? The Notifications RFC, then the Messaging_rewrite_RFC?
18:32 libsysguy yes
18:32 cait correct
18:32 cait i think the second should have most points from the first
18:32 * Brooke nods.
18:33 Brooke I was gonna link them, and initially both were on the same page, but like I said, stuff got moved.
18:33 sekjal okay, so we've got some key pieces of the puzzle to link together
18:34 slef #topic Planning the steps to implement this
18:35 sekjal we've got the various kinds of messages we want to send (overdue, due, hold placed, claim, etc etc)
18:35 sekjal and we want to be able to have different templates for those messages depending on several factors
18:35 sekjal {itemtype, branchcode,patroncategory}
18:36 sekjal messages can also be delivered in several ways: print, email, SMS, RSS, etc
18:36 sekjal each deliver method can support 1 or more message formats
18:36 cait to make it more complicated we might want to fall back from one to the other
18:37 Brooke cait++
18:37 sekjal the formats so far are HTML, plaintext, RSS/XML, and short-message
18:37 cait no mobile numbe > send email > no email > create print
18:37 Brooke rank by patron preference, perhaps?
18:38 sekjal we could save ourselves some complexity, and fuse message format with delivery method
18:38 cait hm
18:38 sekjal since RSS is always RSS/XML
18:38 sekjal SMS is always shortmessage
18:38 cait what about email? should be plan or html
18:38 sekjal ^^
18:39 sekjal same with print
18:39 sekjal though I'd lean more on HTML for print
18:39 cait def
18:39 Brooke hmmm
18:39 Brooke it'd have to print nicely
18:39 cait but email makes sense in plain and html (although I always prefere plain)
18:39 cait print should have options to add corporate design
18:39 cait logos, footer, header
18:39 * Brooke nods.
18:39 cait so html is a good way to go for that
18:39 sekjal do we think this is something people would want to decide on globally?
18:40 Brooke no
18:40 sekjal like, system preference level?
18:40 Brooke I think this is a pizza topping
18:40 cait decide about?
18:40 sekjal all emails are plain, or all emails are HTML, per install?
18:40 cait hm
18:40 Brooke no
18:40 Brooke not even that
18:40 Brooke for my overdue notices
18:40 Brooke I'd want plain
18:40 Brooke for my flash fundraising stuff, might want html.
18:40 cait Brooke: really not so sure about that
18:40 Brooke although
18:40 cait couldn't we make it an option in the notice templates?
18:40 Brooke if we default to plain
18:40 Brooke I can always be sneaky
18:40 Brooke and just link stuff.
18:40 slef I think that's fine for an option, but it's plain at the mo, isn't it?
18:41 cait like give it a subject, give it an email address to be sent from and check html or not?
18:41 libsysguy from a design perspective whats the difference between html and plain
18:41 Brooke for a test, we've to ensure that the email address in reply to is the right one in parameters.
18:42 sekjal libsysguy: WYSIWYG editor
18:42 slef Would someone go through http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Messaging_rewrite_RFC and bold which ones already exist? I'm happy to take a first crack, but I'll probably miss some.
18:42 cait slef: I had marked soem of them with a *
18:42 libsysguy why not enable the wysiwyg editor by default...if its plain text just render it as such?
18:42 libsysguy maybe im just being naive about it
18:43 Brooke the new ones are * on the initial document
18:43 cait libsysguy: you can't do bold and such tihngs in plain, might get confusing
18:43 slef libsysguy: people screw up and use only colour or styling to indicate things.
18:43 cait yep
18:43 cait hi Oak
18:43 cait but why not have a flag on the notice to indicate?
18:43 cait the format?
18:43 slef libsysguy: which they shouldn't, because that's bad for accessibility too (red-green colour-blind for example)
18:43 Oak hello cait
18:43 Oak hello #koha
18:43 libsysguy gotcha
18:43 slef cait / Brooke: so are * the new ones or the current ones?
18:43 cait see my note below ;)
18:44 Brooke line 50 says new
18:44 sekjal if we're including a flag or an option, we're losing any benefits of merging format and delivery method
18:44 sekjal unless
18:44 cait new
18:44 sekjal we have two email delivery methods: plain, and HTML
18:44 Oak loud hello to Brooke
18:44 slef hi Oak. Welcome to the meeting. #info if you want to be noted in the minutes.
18:44 * Brooke hugs Oak.
18:44 Oak oops
18:44 Oak it's a meeting. will shut up now
18:44 cait sekjal: hm, is this so bad?
18:44 slef it's a chaos
18:45 cait having html and plain mail?
18:45 slef Brooke: ok, I see that line now. That wasn't clear to me on first reading.
18:45 sekjal so, when in the notices editor creating a new notice:
18:46 sekjal you'd have the options for format: "email-plain, email-HTML, print (HTML), SMS, RSS"
18:46 sekjal choice of format would inform the editor on any restrictions/tools to include
18:47 Brooke *nod* and theoretically call the printer on the carpet.
18:48 slef So am I right in thinking the later sections don't have *s?
18:48 slef OK with everyone if I take a run through those?
18:48 cait slef: correct
18:48 Brooke please do, and double check the wiki I know I edited some out accidentally.
18:48 cait we didn't get far tidying it up
18:48 cait I will mark them now for oyu
18:49 sekjal okay: so message templates would have major characteristics: itemtype, branchcode, patron category, format
18:49 sekjal oh, and type
18:49 libsysguy yes ^^
18:50 cait hm
18:50 cait i was thinking
18:50 cait have the rules apart
18:50 cait from the templates
18:50 * Brooke nods.
18:50 cait so you can reuse a template
18:50 cait for different combinatons
18:51 sekjal good point
18:51 cait like have one overdue to sent to all borrowers, but different overdues for professors and students
18:51 libsysguy so like the circ rules
18:51 cait keep template characteristics specific to the text
18:52 cait libsysguy: similar, yes, but perhaps with a nicer gui :)
18:52 sekjal so just format and type
18:52 sekjal makes sense
18:52 Brooke nicer guis++
18:52 sekjal use rules elsewhere
18:52 libsysguy aww I wanted all text everyhing :'(
18:52 cait sekjal: perhaps even a code for the hardcoded things? like module now
18:52 cait oh
18:52 libsysguy jk
18:53 cait if we put how something is triggered into the rules
18:53 cait how do we indicate which placeholders can be used in a template?
18:53 sekjal that would be a function of "type"
18:53 slef OK, I've tried to update http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Messaging_rewrite_RFC#Meeting_Document_from_8_September_2011 and put *s on new types and formats. Did I get it right?
18:53 sekjal all Overdues would have access to the same variables
18:54 cait slef: we could use the typewithme and put that on the wiki later?
18:54 Brooke it's on the thinger
18:54 cait slef: sms is possible already
18:55 slef cait: oh yeah. I thought I deleted that
18:55 slef cait: :( typewithme eats my battery.
18:55 cait ok
18:55 slef cait: you remove or shall I?
18:55 cait can you?
18:55 slef removing
18:55 cait thx
18:55 slef done
18:56 cait ok
18:56 cait so type format
18:56 sekjal so, right now, when creating a new message, you specific what Module it's in
18:56 cait where format also indicates the delivery type
18:56 cait hm
18:56 sekjal and that gives you access to various tables
18:56 sekjal what about
18:56 sekjal instead
18:57 sekjal you specify an SQL query to per message type to get you the variables you want?
18:57 sekjal and that SQL lived in a Report
18:57 * Brooke pukes.
18:58 Brooke that's okay for advanced users
18:58 Brooke but is incredibly hostile for other types, if I'm grokin' ye
18:58 slef sekjal: how would the SQL query work? Wouldn't that need its own placeholders, which would vary by which module it's in, or at least which type of object it's working on?
18:59 sekjal Brooke: we'd include default reports that include all the tokens we include now
18:59 cait some kind of primary key , yes
18:59 Brooke default features++
18:59 cait sekjal: I kind of like the idea to make it more flexible
18:59 cait for example fines
18:59 cait i could make it sum things
18:59 sekjal slef: the template would be called with whatever key parameters make sense in it's context
19:00 cait using sql functions,not dpeenidng on the system to do it the way I want it too
19:00 cait to
19:00 cait but it would need a way to make clear which pk is to be used...
19:00 slef I think this is another enhancement for later?
19:00 cait pehaps a phase 2 thing yes...
19:00 cait but still something I would really love to see
19:00 Brooke a lot of this is enhancement and phased
19:01 Brooke I think it's important to honour what we want while we move on the stuff y'all need NAO
19:01 slef sekjal: do you think this would still work if we move to DBIx or whatever it's called?
19:01 cait ok
19:01 cait so we have a desired structure for templates now
19:01 sekjal slef: I don't know
19:01 cait that will kill a lot of the tables in there right now
19:01 cait because koha has already very complicated structures in place for delivery types and messaging
19:01 slef oh yeah, it's worth mentioning... just I've 1001 questions on it which probably don't need asking just now
19:02 slef So what are the phases? Is that written anywhere yet?
19:02 cait no
19:02 cait not yet
19:02 cait I think talking about structures is first
19:02 cait and then making small sets to be developed as patches?
19:03 cait and be aware of what we want it to do late to not make it hard to enhance
19:03 * Brooke nods.
19:03 slef sure
19:03 sekjal I doubt we'll come out of this meeting with a complete roadmap, but a few steps closer is acceptable to me
19:04 sekjal is it acceptable to say
19:04 sekjal that
19:04 * cait nods
19:04 slef We've also a structure for how we get what to put into the templates. So any other structures we need?
19:04 sekjal each message type should pull in a specific set of usable variables?
19:05 cait yes
19:05 cait and consistent this time plz
19:05 cait from the beginning
19:05 sekjal phrase another way: does it make sense to have message type and 'module' as separate things?
19:06 cait hm
19:06 cait perhaps not
19:06 cait as long as message type is not unique
19:06 slef Why not?
19:06 cait why not unique?
19:06 slef why no sense?
19:06 cait oh
19:06 cait perhaps not necessary
19:06 sekjal can an overdue notice be anything but a Circulation module notice?
19:06 cait but might make it easier to organize
19:07 cait or prone to false inputs
19:07 slef sekjal: it could be an email scheduled, or a screen notice triggered on checkout and checkin, couldn't it?
19:08 sekjal slef: I mean, in the Notices editor, there is a dropdown to select Module
19:08 sekjal and that's what determines what tokens/variables/database fields you can put into the template
19:08 cait but type would already indicate the module
19:08 cait and choose the fields
19:09 slef I thought type was delivery type?
19:09 Brooke do we want a preview box someplace so we can see what all will be pulled?
19:09 slef let's keep the jargon straight please people! ;-)
19:09 sekjal sorry, slef
19:09 sekjal message templates
19:09 sekjal have message types (overdue, checkin, predue, holds place, etc)
19:10 * slef has gin now (it's 8pm here), so may be more easily confused than usual.
19:10 cait Brooke: you can't preview without giving it a borrower or something - I think it's not really necessary
19:10 sekjal and formats (email-plain, email-HTML, print, SMS, etc)
19:10 slef sekjal: those seem to be called messages in the new RFC.
19:11 sekjal yeah, that's how we originally labeled them last meeting
19:11 sekjal message type informs the available database fields for the message template
19:12 sekjal every overdue notice will have access to the same fields
19:12 slef please stop using type or I'll get confused again... so the question is: can the same message appear in multiple modules?
19:12 sekjal I'm proposing getting rid of modules
19:12 cait slef: for the messages we have spoken about - I think no
19:13 slef By the looks of the design, I think it makes sense to relegate them to headings in the messages list.
19:13 cait so voting to go for the simpler version now
19:13 cait no modules
19:13 * slef just checks the current source
19:13 cait sekjal: the table will also need subject and perhaps description
19:13 sekjal cait: yes
19:13 cait and a pk
19:13 cait of course
19:13 cait or?
19:14 sekjal those are free text and 3NF design bits, respectively
19:14 sekjal very necessary
19:14 cait ok
19:14 cait so we have that mapped out now
19:14 cait now, we will have things where triggers are hardcoded
19:14 cait like for holds
19:14 cait but we need other things with more options
19:14 cait like overdues
19:15 cait or predues
19:15 sekjal right, we've got two kinds of message triggers
19:15 cait can we get that into 1 additional table? or do we need another structure?
19:15 sekjal event-based (checkin, checkout, hold placed, hold confirmed, etc)
19:15 sekjal and scheduled
19:15 cait overdues - event or scheduled?
19:15 cait the event is book gets overdue - but it's more a time based thing probably
19:15 Brooke both
19:15 Brooke which is tricky
19:16 sekjal scheduled at this point
19:16 cait ok
19:16 Brooke should be pre overdue triggers notice
19:16 Brooke actual overdue triggers a notice
19:16 Brooke end of month accounting might nag yet again.
19:16 sekjal the trigger is "our cronjob ran to see what's overdue, and here're the messages"
19:16 Brooke then > collection over X $
19:16 slef could scheduled be just events (queuerun,hourly,dayhour,nighthour,...)?
19:17 sekjal slef: yes
19:17 sekjal we'd just need some thing to cause those events (cron, daemon, etc)
19:17 libsysguy sorry guys for going silent
19:17 libsysguy i had to take care of something
19:18 sekjal this is much like the fines discussion earlier today, actually
19:18 sekjal much like it
19:18 libsysguy uh oh
19:18 slef I think book dueness events are just strange events, triggered by another event (a search triggered by the queuerun or daily event which looks for books going that much due)
19:18 libsysguy looks like i came back just in time
19:19 slef sekjal: heh. A fine is a type of message.
19:19 * slef runs
19:19 sekjal slef: well.... yeah
19:19 sekjal in a way
19:19 cait ok
19:19 cait only wanted to get that sorted in :)
19:19 cait I think this is good so far
19:20 cait sekjal: do you have a structure in mind for the triggers?
19:20 cait the scheduled triggers (I should clarify this)
19:20 sekjal well, scheduled or event based should probably both call the same subroutine to populate the message template with real data
19:21 sekjal that means a) choosing the right template, based on our rules
19:21 sekjal b) passing the appropriate primary keys for the contextually-correct objects
19:21 Brooke is there summat clever y'all can do to prevent someone from being sent a message too often within a certain timeframe? Like an array that checks v chron or summat?
19:21 sekjal c) adding the completed notice to the message_queue
19:22 slef event_id int, event varchar(16), function text, template_id int references templates.template_id
19:22 slef I'm sure that's a security disaster waiting to happen.
19:23 slef at very least, function would need whitelisting
19:23 sekjal right now, steps a), b) and possibly c) are done each time a message event happens
19:23 rangi morning
19:24 Brooke morena
19:24 cait morning rangi
19:24 Brooke Kei te pehea koe?
19:24 sekjal how could we pass the right keys to an arbitrary notice.... hmmmm......
19:24 slef rangi: where's my microUSB cable hiding?
19:25 rangi in the couch?
19:25 cait check under the bad?
19:25 cait bed
19:25 cait ... sorry
19:25 cait sekjal: I am not sure I can follow all that
19:25 libsysguy slef refridgerator
19:25 cait let me reread
19:26 cait hm
19:26 cait sounds ok to me so far
19:26 cait not sure about slefs security concerns though
19:26 slef I found a different one in the cupboard. All is well
19:27 slef sekjal: by having the event say what function fuels it. See above. Maybe add a column for report_id if you want to use the reports table?
19:28 sekjal slef: ah, I'm seeing it, now
19:28 sekjal took a second
19:28 slef sekjal: yeah, clarity is not my strong point right now.
19:28 cait ah
19:29 slef Brooke: if the outgoing messages are being logged in koha, a sending action could check the log to make sure it isn't sending too often.
19:30 Brooke excellent :)
19:30 * Brooke can't help but picture teh angry Patrons.
19:30 * slef can and is laughing. Is that wrong?
19:30 sekjal well, choosing which message template to retrieve doesn't involve passing keys
19:30 sekjal need itemtype/patroncategory/branchcode (maybe)
19:30 cait hmm
19:31 sekjal and message type, of course
19:31 sekjal and message format, taken from patron preferences
19:31 cait but that also would make a lot of repeated entries
19:31 cait when setting up things i mean
19:31 slef sekjal: I'm seeing function as an arbitrary something like C4::Notification::SendOverdueToPatron
19:32 slef rangi: c'mon, are you horrified yet?
19:32 cait he is hiding
19:32 cait but perhaps that's ok
19:32 cait I think we have to rethink the way message preferences work
19:32 cait for patrons
19:32 * rangi is happy this is SEP
19:33 cait SEP?
19:33 wahanui SEP is probably similar daylight to March.
19:33 rangi someone elses problem
19:33 Brooke wahanui forget SEP
19:33 wahanui Brooke: I forgot sep
19:33 cait are we that bad?
19:33 rangi Hehe nope but its not 3.6 so im low on caring :)
19:33 slef rangi: what's the right way to extend core actions? My brian isn't working just now.
19:34 slef Or brain even.
19:34 cait what we are talking abou tnow will kill existing structures
19:34 * sekjal just needs to be exorbitantly wealthy, so he can fly everyone interested in working on this to the same location, and provide whiteboards, snacks/beer and comfy sofas
19:35 libsysguy ^^
19:35 cait the messaging tables are quite a bit complicated, but could be extended I guess
19:35 rangi id start again
19:35 Brooke sekjal++
19:35 rangi in the Koha:: namespace
19:35 sekjal oh, and remember:
19:35 rangi then cutover when done
19:36 sekjal whatever database structure changes we wind up making, we have to be able to port over everyone's existing notices into the new structures
19:36 sekjal seamlessly
19:36 libsysguy oh yes...i keep forgetting that
19:36 sekjal no regressions allowed
19:36 libsysguy and there frequency structure
19:37 rangi yep port and equally important clean up what is now deprecated
19:37 slef sekjal: can you fix my health too please?
19:38 slef ok, sorry folks, I resign the chair
19:38 slef not that I've been doing much for the last few minutes ;)
19:38 cait bye slef
19:38 cait perhaps we need to close the meeting soon
19:38 libsysguy bye slef...thanks
19:38 cait can someone put down our structures?
19:38 Brooke he's not leaving, he's passing the gavel, yes?
19:39 cait to have something to start with next time?
19:39 cait and perhaps meet again in one week or 2?
19:39 slef I'm not sure when I'm leaving but it will be soon and sudden
19:39 cait I am not feeling too well myself tonight - might be getting a cold
19:40 libsysguy Well i basically missed the meeting so I have no objections to whatever
19:40 sekjal #idea instead of functions in the database table, why not functions directly in the event itself?
19:40 slef because then how do you replace events?
19:41 sekjal when an item is checked in, the CHECKIN event occurs, and SendCheckinNotice($itemnumber) is called
19:41 slef #idea something like eventid int, event varchar(16), function text, template_id int references templates.templateid, report_id references reports.reportid
19:42 slef yeah but what SendCheckinNotice? C4::SendCheckinNotice or LocalLibrary::SendCheckinNotice?
19:42 slef sorry, C4::Circulation::SendCheckinNotice
19:43 sekjal slef: right, sorry, Koha::Notices::SendCheckinNotice
19:43 cait the one defined in our table weith borrowercategory library and itemtype?
19:44 slef sekjal: so what would I do to get LocalLibrary::Notices::SendCheckinNotice run instead?
19:44 sekjal slef: why would you want to?
19:45 slef sekjal: because Koha::Notices::SendCheckinNotice doesn't check the message log before deciding whether to send a notice.
19:45 slef (for example)
19:45 sekjal then write a patch to fix it so it does... (optionally controlled by a syspref)
19:45 sekjal sorry, I think my head is getting all fuzzy
19:46 sekjal having a hard time grasping ideas
19:46 slef patching core is no fun... we have a chance to avoid it here :)
19:46 rangi oh noes
19:46 sekjal I think I see
19:46 sekjal plugin support
19:46 rangi slef is pitching drupal
19:46 * rangi runs screaming
19:47 slef rangi: I'm hoping to do better.
19:47 oleonard slef would never pitch something written in PHP
19:47 slef rangi: replace function calls, not just have function calls that defer to other function calls
19:47 rangi couldn't do worse :)
19:47 slef oh I could
19:47 slef and probably have
19:47 slef father forgive me
19:47 Brooke you are forgiven, my son.
19:48 slef oleonard: danger money, yeah!
19:48 * cait can't follow
19:48 sekjal I'm all for making Koha pluggable, but I think that's outside the scope of this particular project
19:48 rangi im pretty sure the catalyst drupal team (all 10 of them) just sit around swearing about plugins
19:49 slef the co-op does too. We almost have no drupal sites left now.
19:49 slef ttyl - remember to endmeeting, someone
19:49 sekjal bye, slef
19:49 * libsysguy libsysguys site is based on drupal :'(
19:49 cait oh
19:50 cait he is using that smiley again
19:50 * cait glares
19:50 cait ok
19:50 libsysguy i mean :-D
19:50 cait so perhaps we should end meeting and start with trigger talk/modules next time?
19:50 sekjal cait: agreed
19:50 sekjal I'm fried
19:51 rangi catalyst has a lot, im just glad I dont have to maintain them
19:51 Brooke #endmeeting
19:51 huginn Meeting ended Thu Sep 15 19:50:35 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
19:51 huginn Minutes: http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-09-15-18.22.html
19:51 huginn Minutes (text): http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-09-15-18.22.txt
19:51 huginn Log: http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-09-15-18.22.log.html
19:51 rangi and next time I wont derail the discussion Hehe
19:51 sekjal and I've still have some fun intellectual problems to solve involving undoing patron imports
19:51 Brooke it is unpossible to derail an open source conversation. They are not on track by default. ;)
19:51 oleonard rangi: Does Catalyst still start new sites on Drupal or do they have a new preferred system?
19:52 cait we forgot time of nextmeeting
19:52 rangi still start new sites on drupal, for certain types of sites anyway
19:52 cait next week might not be good
19:52 cait with feature freeze pending
19:52 cait perhaps in 2 weeks?
19:52 rangi at least its not plone, is the consensus :)
19:52 libsysguy im ok with that
19:53 oleonard Amen to that rangi
19:53 * oleonard is glad he didn't take Josh's advice on that one
19:53 rangi heh
20:00 * oleonard splits
20:28 rangi http://drupal.biblibre.com/en/blog/entry/biblibre-social-enterprise-and-responsible-enterprise
20:28 rangi biblibre++
20:41 Brooke mmm good on them. biblibre++
20:45 rangi hdl++
20:46 Brooke hdl++
20:46 hdl rangi: why ?
20:46 hdl hi
20:46 wahanui bonjour, hdl
20:47 rangi http://t.co/PjaknIRB
20:50 hdl oh... thanks.
20:50 hdl biblibre++ then
20:50 rangi yep did that already ;)
20:54 Brooke hardball!
20:56 hdl thanks anyway
22:48 cait biblibre++
22:48 wizzyrea cait!
22:49 wizzyrea it's so late for you!
22:49 rangi i thought u was travelling wizzyrea ?
22:49 wizzyrea i am at my destination
22:49 wizzyrea :)
22:49 cait book
22:49 wizzyrea arrived about an hour ago
22:49 rangi ahh
22:49 cait one word, explains everything
22:49 rangi is it all secure?
22:49 rangi :)
22:50 wizzyrea afaict
22:50 rangi :)
22:51 cait wizzyrea: where are you that rangi asks if it's secure?
22:51 wizzyrea that's classified maam.
22:51 wizzyrea teasing, it's southwest kansas library system tech day
22:52 wizzyrea well the day before swkls tech day
22:52 wizzyrea 5.5 hour drive from lawrence
22:53 rangi shes talking about security
22:53 wizzyrea and that
22:55 cait oh
22:55 cait :)
22:55 cait you will do great
22:55 wizzyrea i've give this one several times before
23:08 cait so it will be morethan great :)
23:09 rangi that was fast
23:09 wizzyrea i'll do my best to make you all proud ;)
23:11 cait aw :)
23:17 wizzyrea bbl
23:17 rangi cya
23:32 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: bug_6318: Always give predefined fields drop downs on label layout edit <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=d43aa87d35561266275d840fe890009d8a231772>