Time Nick Message 02:31 mtj heres a random Q.... 02:32 mtj does anyone know where the equiv. of http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=22_to_30 is? 02:32 mtj i need to do a koha2 -> koha3 upgrade, and that link is the only doco i can find 02:33 mtj ... and it no longer exists :/ 02:33 mtj . 02:34 mtj i wonder if any ptfs/liblime folk might be able to find an old backup of the wiki.koha.org database... 02:35 mtj ... i could find that lost important information, and paste it into the new kc.org wiki 02:36 mtj hmm, perhaps i could send that request to the Koha general mailing-list 02:36 druthb o/ 02:36 mtj heya druthb 02:36 mtj got a copy of the wiki.koha.org db somewhere ;) 02:37 druthb nopers. 02:37 rangi im pretty sure i shifted that already 02:37 mtj im looking for this page -> http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=22_to_30 02:37 rangi http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Upgrading_2.2 02:37 druthb rangi++ 02:38 mtj bah , was searching on '22_to_30' 02:38 mtj thanks chris :) 02:39 rangi mtj: what you should do 02:39 mtj facepalm, its the 1st results using 'upgrading' :/ 02:39 mtj ;p 02:39 rangi http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4518 02:39 huginn 04Bug 4518: enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, nahuel.angelinetti, ASSIGNED , Enhance 2.2 to 3.0 scripts 02:40 rangi thats a patch that fixes/enhances the 2.2 to 3.0 scripts 02:41 mtj oooh, thanks! 02:42 mtj im upgrading a koha thats so old.. it doesnt have a 'version' syspref value :p 02:42 rangi thats pretty old 02:43 rangi theosophical society? 02:43 mtj which is a 1st for me :) , its a 2.0.x (i think) 02:43 mtj yeah :) 02:43 rangi ahh ull need to go to 2.2.x first then 3.0.0 then 3.2 then 3.4 etc 02:43 mtj so far, so good 02:43 rangi cool 02:43 druthb Hi, Oak. :) 02:43 * Oak waves 02:43 Oak heya druthb :) 02:44 mtj rangi: yeah, the 2.0 to 2.2 bit... and quick ideas there? 02:44 rangi i forget how i did that 02:44 rangi been a long time 02:45 mtj ive been looking at a 2.2.9 repo, but cant find any 2.0->2.2 doco in it 02:45 mtj yeah :) 02:45 mtj all good - i can wing it, if i cant find any info 02:47 rangi yeah i cant remember 02:48 mtj ahh, here they are :) 02:49 mtj http://git.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=koha.git;a=tree;f=misc/release+notes;h=85bfb75ff1a82466be137de366395e2726543983;hb=675f9d5b0152922364c1963438b2aad977a17cf2 02:49 rangi ahh thats easy 02:49 rangi ./koha.upgrade 02:53 mtj http://git.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=misc/koha.upgrade;h=0449c10494ba25cd7f5aad15220f890f16a0a86e;hb=675f9d5b0152922364c1963438b2aad977a17cf2 02:53 mtj w00t 02:53 mtj heya ronald 02:53 mtj mtj <- mason :) 04:13 druthb o/ 04:13 Oak druthb :) 04:14 druthb hi again, Oak. :) 04:14 rangi http://www.eclecticmethod.net/2011/07/07/the-dark-side/ 04:15 druthb Interesting lil dubstep... 05:04 francharb hello all 06:19 cait hi #koha 06:43 reiveune hello 06:50 julian hello #koha 08:03 jenkins_koha Starting build 320 for job Koha_master (previous build: FIXED) 08:09 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Fix for Bug 6573 - Library name entry field enforces unnecessary maxlength <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=7b1ca473cc0307dfde997051e04fad664ba0503f> / Revised fix for Bug 6133 - Authorised values administration, warn for modifs <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=7f095be74ab2169eb4401bfc4f51abec08cc5a9f> / Bug 5197: add < > token to notices <http://git.koha-commu 08:46 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #320: SUCCESS in 43 mn: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/320/ 08:46 jenkins_koha * ian.walls: Bug 5197: add <<today>> token to notices 08:46 jenkins_koha * oleonard: Revised fix for Bug 6133 - Authorised values administration, warn for modifs 08:46 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5197 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, ian.walls, ASSIGNED , today's date on notices 08:46 jenkins_koha * oleonard: Fix for Bug 6573 - Library name entry field enforces unnecessary maxlength 08:46 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6133 trivial, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Authorised values administration, warn for modifs 08:46 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6573 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Library name entry field enforces unnecessary maxlength 10:24 slef hi all 10:25 kf hi slef 10:26 slef anyone any idea about kohacon11 meeting? 10:26 kf sorry, no 10:28 rangi hi slef and kf 10:32 kf hi rangi :) 10:32 slef hi rangi 10:32 kf can you bring wahanui back? 10:32 rangi nope 10:32 kf oh :( 10:33 slef gone for good or just waiting on eythian? 10:33 rangi well i could, but id rather just wait for eythian he was working on some plugins 10:33 kf so he is not dead, only sleeping 10:33 kf that's good :) 10:45 druthb o/ 10:46 rangi hi druthb 10:46 druthb hi, rangi! :) 11:35 JesseM Good Morning 12:15 kf morning JesseM 12:16 JesseM Hi kf 12:17 kf hi talljoy 12:17 talljoy good morning 12:29 magnuse kia ora #koha 12:31 druthb kia ora, magnuse. :) 12:32 magnuse hiya druthb 12:48 oleonard Must bug the person at this library who blocked IRC 12:48 magnuse ouch 13:01 kf hi magnuse :) 13:01 magnuse guten tag kf 13:54 library_systems_guy once a patch has been signed off on how long does it usually take to get pushed to maser? 13:58 kf until qa manager signs off 13:58 library_systems_guy ahh 13:58 slef library_systems_guy: I'm not sure it's an easy thing to average :-/ 13:58 kf then rangi pushes them very quick 13:59 library_systems_guy gotcha 13:59 library_systems_guy i was just curious 13:59 slef http://bugs.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/progress.pl might give some idea of trends 13:59 sekjal small patches, things that touch the templates only, tend to be quicker to push through QA because they're easier to test; you either see it works or it doesn't 13:59 slef looks like a couple of days 13:59 sekjal anything mucking around in C4/Circulation, Reserves or Search... much more in depth 14:00 library_systems_guy right right...so my patch that messes with xslt should tale some time 14:00 kf it's your first patch, right? :) 14:00 kf history is waiting :) 14:01 kf meaning - we can add another name to the list of that gets through 14:01 library_systems_guy third actually...but the first two were like id patches lol 14:01 kf oh 14:01 library_systems_guy i think im already in there :D 14:01 kf :) 14:01 library_systems_guy i felt that if i was going to make the list it might as well be for something cool 14:38 wizzyrea good morning 14:38 kf good morning liz 14:41 Agent_Dani Hi wizzyrea 14:41 jcamins_away Hello, wizzyrea, kf, and Agent_Dani. 14:42 kf hi jcamins :) 14:44 druthb hi, jcamins. :) 14:45 jcamins Hi, druthb! 14:45 jcamins druthb++ # because it's after breakfast, and she does something amazing before breakfast every day :) 14:46 kf :) 14:48 * druthb blushes 14:48 talljoy I don't see any blushing. 14:48 * talljoy ducks 14:48 druthb no fair, with talljoy sitting next to me. 14:52 jcamins Hi, talljoy! 14:53 talljoy hello! 14:55 * kf whispers to talljoy: can you poke her from me? 15:01 * Agent_Dani fences photos of druthb blushing. *whistles innocently* 15:02 druthb :P 15:11 miguel Hola, hay alguién para la reunión en el IRC de es-koha-community ? 15:22 rhcl wizzy is dizzy 15:22 druthb lol 15:23 rhcl Miguel: I don't think there is an English language meeting scheduled, I don't know if there is something scheduled on the Spanish language side or not. 15:25 miguel thanks, I think we scheduled a meeting for today, but ... 15:29 SirDekar hi people, I've got a question. UNIMARC or MARC21 which is better or what's the difference? 15:29 reiveune bye 15:29 kf where are you located? 15:29 SirDekar me? 15:29 kf yes :) 15:29 SirDekar Panama, Center of America 15:30 kf hm 15:31 slef SirDekar: look at what the libraries you want to share with use. 15:32 kf slef: good answer :) 15:32 kf both are bibliographic data formats 15:32 slef kf: until we figure out translating between them, at least. 15:33 kf there is a pending patch from marcelr 15:33 kf but if you want to import data too... 15:33 kf hm, export 15:33 kf it would help importing them via z39.50 - but no complete translation for all fields probably 15:33 kf but export works only with one format 15:37 kf ok, and now I stop confusing people and go book my hotel for the presentation next week 15:37 jcamins Argh! I just spent 45 minutes on a complicated item, only to have the computer crash when I tried to save the record. 15:37 kf ouch 15:37 * jcamins remembers all over again why he hates the Koha cataloging interface. 15:40 library_systems_guy so i was just looking at rangi's place that he works...any correlation to http://www.catalystframework.org 15:41 * jcamins had never forgotten why he hates embedding authids in bib records. 15:44 wizzyrea not related, afaik 15:45 library_systems_guy aww...thats disappointing 15:46 library_systems_guy although not surprising really...i guess if they were related Koha would probably be based on that framework 15:46 * wizzyrea questions that claim 16:00 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6577] Columns misaligned on serials search results <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6577> 17:17 hdl jcamins: can you elaborate ? 17:18 jcamins hdl: elaborate on what? 17:18 hdl jcamins had never forgotten why he hates embedding authids in bib records. 17:18 jcamins Ah. 17:18 hdl because of linking required ? 17:18 jcamins Right. 17:19 hdl mmmm only with ids can the relation be accurate imho. 17:19 cait that's what I keep saying, but he doesn't listen to me :P 17:19 jcamins You have to either create all your authority records in advance, or you have to allow the system to create them automatically for you. 17:20 hdl But this is a UNIMARC and endless discussion. 17:20 jcamins If there were a script to repair the damage after the fact, that would be one thing. 17:20 jcamins But there isn't. 17:20 cait and jcamins - didn't we agree that we need to improve the tools managing th elinks instead of killing the authids? ;) 17:20 jcamins cait: we agreed it would be a good idea. 17:20 hdl link_authorities.... doesnot work ? 17:20 cait hehe 17:20 jcamins hdl: no, of course not. 17:20 hdl for you ? 17:21 hdl I thought that dom indexing was the heaven for marc21. 17:21 cait it works for us - but we don#t use the linking scripts 17:21 cait it's not generally broken i would say 17:21 jcamins hdl: the matching algorithm is very inaccurate. 17:22 cait have to run and buy food :) 17:22 jcamins In particular, it doesn't match things with multiple subdivisions. 17:28 cait @wunder Konstanz 17:28 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 26.4�C (7:25 PM CEST on July 12, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 21.0�C. Pressure: 29.73 in 1006.7 hPa (Steady). 17:28 wizzyrea Did something change on the circ screen that would make it take a lot longer on patrons with lots of checkouts? 17:28 jcamins @wunder 11375 17:28 huginn jcamins: The current temperature in Howard Beach, Queens, New York is 33.7�C (1:28 PM EDT on July 12, 2011). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 47%. Dew Point: 21.0�C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1003.9 hPa (Steady). Heat advisory in effect until 9 PM EDT this evening... 17:29 jcamins wizzyrea: did you turn on the sorter things? 17:29 wizzyrea is that a syspref 17:29 wizzyrea ? 17:29 wizzyrea and it's new? 17:29 wizzyrea as of 3.4? 17:29 cait I think it's new 17:30 cait but it was there before, the sorter thing, you can turn it off now 17:30 cait perhaps the relatives thing? 17:31 wizzyrea hmm tablesort for circ is off 17:31 wizzyrea could be the relatives thing... sec 17:32 wizzyrea heh... 17:33 wizzyrea 41 checkouts, no relatives, just took 40 seconds 17:33 wizzyrea to load the checkout screen 17:33 wizzyrea hmm 17:38 wizzyrea well soemthing has changed, because the same thing didn't happen in 3.2 17:38 cait :( 17:38 wizzyrea or at least, it only kicked in at a much higher level of borrows/user 17:38 cait your production system? 17:38 wizzyrea ya 17:38 cait ouch :( 17:39 wizzyrea ah sok. I've filed a ticket and the smarties will look into it. ;) 17:39 cait perhaps something on server side? 17:39 wizzyrea could be 17:44 thd Has anyone had difficulty uploading files to the wiki? 17:44 wizzyrea I thought that was fixed 17:45 thd wizzyrea, yes when I looked last week I could find no configuration obstacle to uploading common file types. 17:45 thd wizzyrea: Only specific file types are allowed as a sensible security measure. 17:45 wizzyrea sure 17:46 wizzyrea but you're not able to? 17:46 cait I think it was Brooke who had problems - I never tried it really 17:46 thd Brooke mentioned that there had been a problem. 17:47 thd There had definitely been a problem with the category assignments which I have mostly fixed. 17:47 cait thd++ 17:47 cait perhaps have a list of allowed file types somewhere? 17:47 thd gmcharlt had upgraded the wiki software but some extensions needed upgrading in consequence. 17:48 thd cait++ 17:48 thd The list is probably not long enough. 17:48 cait yes, perhaps something like .mrc or something missing 17:49 cait not sure what Brooke wanted to upload 17:51 thd I just added mrc. 17:51 thd We now have pdf, csv, and mrc as additional file types. 17:52 cait what are the others? 17:52 cait I think graphics? 17:52 thd I do not know what the base list of already allowed file types is. 17:52 cait ah ok 17:52 thd Yes graphics file types are certainly in the base list. 17:53 thd The directory in which they are stored is images. 17:53 cait I wonder if we should add odt 17:53 thd All uploads are stored in the images directory as far as I can tell. 17:54 thd I just added odt. 17:54 cait cool :) 17:54 cait might be good for checklists or other things you might want to print and edit 17:54 cait edit in print... in that sequence 18:18 jcamins Does anyone know of any IRC channels where people who collate old books hang out? 18:18 cait hm 18:22 * wizzyrea mutters 18:23 wizzyrea can someone release that poor message I just sent to the koha list please and thanks? 18:24 jcamins hdl just left. 18:25 wizzyrea never mind I just re-sent it 18:25 wizzyrea my sig pissed it off. 18:26 * wizzyrea prepares for the poostorm that message will kick off. 18:26 * jcamins eagerly awaits the message. 18:27 jcamins This is a really weird book. Leaves C1 and C6 were both bound in backwards. 18:31 * jcamins doesn't see what the problem with that message is. 18:55 cait wizzyrea: looks good for me too 18:55 wizzyrea there are just a lot of politics surrounding the vendor list. 18:56 wizzyrea (it has a tangential relationship to "money," thus people get really excited about it) 18:56 wizzyrea (and I'm sure someone will call me out for saying it's tangential, because in capitalism the relationship to money is direct!) 18:57 cait hm 18:58 cait I don't think money was my reason to be excited about it :) 19:07 * slef fires up the poo cannon 19:07 * wizzyrea gets on her poo resistant outfit 19:08 cait oh cool 19:08 cait they are playing a song in the radio rangi showed me months ago 19:08 * druthb gets out a scrub brush. 19:08 * cait hums along 19:09 slef wizzyrea: mainly, where has "legitimate" gone from http://koha-community.org/support/paid-support/how-to-get-listed/ ? 19:12 wizzyrea slef: that's the wording that has been there since the last discussion on vendor listing took place 19:12 jcamins Ooooooooh. A Grolier binding. :D :D :D 19:12 wizzyrea that happened.... 5 may 2010 19:12 wizzyrea Legitimate has never been on that page. 19:13 slef wizzyrea: yeah rereading the IRC archives, it looks like gmcharlt dropped the word between everyone voting for his suggestion and him writing it on pastebin. 19:13 wizzyrea I'd take that up at the next meeting then. 19:13 slef wizzyrea: so would you list any old fraudsters on that site then? (Personally - and I don't know if I have access - I would not act.) 19:14 wizzyrea the requirements that I follow are the ones agreed upon by the community 19:14 wizzyrea the ones stated on the web page 19:14 slef no, they're not 19:15 slef they're the ones you were given, though 19:15 wizzyrea then blaming me is putting the blame in the wrong place. 19:16 wizzyrea I can understand why this situation is upsetting for you, and I"m willing to hold off on listing until the requirements have been discussed. As it stands though, there aren't any real barriers to listing. 19:17 wizzyrea not to mention the fact that by practicing selection, you then do bear some responsibility should a vendor not live up to the standards of their customers. 19:17 wizzyrea "you said this vendor was good" 19:17 wizzyrea by disclaiming all of them -- you don't have to worry about that. 19:19 wizzyrea so in my mind 19:19 slef I don't believe that's accurate or ethical and I don't think it's legal in the UK. We have concepts like "attractive nuisance" and I'm surprised if the US doesn't, given how the US DHS seizes domains. 19:20 wizzyrea we either take that responsibility seriously and offer a certification (which would likely trim the list) or we list based on basic requirements 19:20 slef Certainly in the UK, webmasters have been punished for failing to remove links to illegal enterprises from websites they ran voluntarily in a timely fashion. 19:20 wizzyrea you have a keyword there 19:20 wizzyrea illegal 19:20 wizzyrea "distateful to me" isn't "illegal" 19:21 slef read the last bullet on http://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-devel/2011-July/035866.html 19:21 slef it was part of my objection 19:22 wizzyrea (failure to respond to that particular objection is why they're not listed already, fwiw) 19:22 wizzyrea (you'll note that they're not listed) 19:22 slef (ok, but it feels like we're into a grey area here) 19:22 wizzyrea this particular request is extremely grey 19:22 wizzyrea because there is a lot of interpersonal stuff around it 19:23 slef yeah, it plays into two other disputes which I'm not handling 19:24 wizzyrea I personally don't like all of the personal jabs, it could have been a lot more professional. 19:24 slef but I'm not going to let him game me out of being the co-op's koha-community liaison... I'm already not our membership manager nor our data controller because of those disputes. 19:25 slef Yeah, I decided not to respond to most of those because I don't see what good it would do. 19:25 wizzyrea I respect you greatly for your abstinence from poo-flinging. ;) 19:25 wizzyrea (I mean that) 19:27 slef all the EDI-related dispute is more debatable... I guess we should have held payment until it was in master. Oh well, live and learn. 19:28 wizzyrea the point re: client's who didn't hire the company, would need proof 19:28 wizzyrea clients... i have an apostrophe happy finger. 19:28 slef how can anyone prove something didn't happen? 19:28 wizzyrea he will just need to prove that it did. 19:30 slef hmmm... not sure how that will play 19:30 slef you do know he's reading this BTW? 19:30 wizzyrea I do 19:30 * wizzyrea waves 19:41 rangi morning 19:41 oleonard Hi rangi, long time no see 19:42 rangi took an irc mental health break :) 19:43 slef I've met NateC haven't it? 19:45 oleonard Were you and he at KohaCon in NZ slef? 19:46 sekjal slef: yes, you met him at KohaCon '11 19:47 rangi he probably did card tricks for ya :) 19:48 slef he looks nothing like the pic on the bywater website 19:48 slef oleonard: yes 19:49 oleonard Can someone please host KohaCon 2012 closer to me please? Thanks. 19:49 jcamins oleonard++ 19:49 wizzyrea closer like -- norway? 19:49 oleonard I'll take it. 19:50 slef oleonard: UK is already on http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Proposals_for_KohaCon12 but still lots to do 19:50 slef I think we're most likely to go for London or Edinburgh - which would people prefer? 19:51 * jcamins loves Edinburgh, but London is close enough to Oxford to detour for a research trip. 19:51 jcamins So... 19:51 jcamins edinburgh++ 19:51 jcamins lond++ 19:51 jcamins Let me try that again. 19:51 jcamins london++ 19:51 * library_systems_guy wants to gooo 19:51 oleonard I'd prefer less expensive accomodations over more to do and see, FWIW 19:52 rangi either works for me 19:52 * druthb will tuck library_systems_guy into her duffel bag for the trip. 19:52 slef oleonard: well, both those cities are big enough to have a range of accommodation prices and tons to do, so that doesn't narrow it down much ;-) 19:52 library_systems_guy yayyy 19:52 library_systems_guy thanks druthb :D 19:53 sekjal london is closer to Legoland Winsor 19:53 sekjal ~Windsor 19:54 slef let me know nearer the time if that's seriously a consideration and I'll keep an eye out for discount vouchers for you because it's eyewateringly expensive 19:55 sekjal I've been to two of the others already, so I'm not sure if that's enough, or if I'm going for the complete set... will ponder on it 19:58 rangi slef: I could asl francois about how the mahara partners thing works 19:58 rangi ask even 19:58 wizzyrea we know his asl :P 19:58 wizzyrea well you do probably 19:58 rangi I think they do some kinda certification 19:58 rangi kristina would know too 20:01 slef rangi: Please do, but isn't it a misnamed self-perpetuating group? 20:01 rangi sure but aren't all certified ones 20:02 rangi who certifies the certifiers 20:02 rangi my stop bbiab 20:02 rangi mahara not moodle btw 20:02 wizzyrea ^^ what he said 20:02 slef the certifiers certify each other, peer-to-peer style 20:02 slef yeah, moodle partners is pay-to-play, we've looked at that before 20:05 sekjal that sounds pretty neat 20:06 sekjal more applications than just certification 20:06 slef OK, let me draft a page for it 20:06 sekjal could be tied into karma, or other forms of "merit" 20:07 sekjal do it for individuals, not organizations. an organization would just be a sum of it's members in whatever aspects we'd want to measure 20:07 * wizzyrea has reservations about this, but will wait to see what you come up with 20:09 cait hm I missed most of the discussion - but organization being the sum of their members... sounds not so good when you are small 20:12 * cait reads back now 20:14 cait ah, missed a rangi appearance 20:15 slef ah 20:16 cait ah? 20:16 slef I don't like certifying people. Someone can leave their organisation and lose access to their tools. 20:17 slef I was thinking of fairly simple requirements like "we have tested the user interface of one of their Koha installations successfully". 20:19 jcamins What's the point of that? It only costs $5 and twenty minutes to meet a requirement like that (get a super-cheap vps, and install Koha). 20:20 slef ok, here's the other things I was thinking of: 20:20 slef # we regard them as a contributor to Koha in the last year; 20:20 slef # they have been recorded as attending a Koha meeting in the last year; 20:20 slef # we have seen recent basic business information (an annual report or similar); and/or 20:20 slef # the co-op's members agree we would do business with them. 20:21 slef jcamins: the point is, many people would fail even that test. 20:21 rangi back 20:21 slef It's up to each certifier to decide their requirements, though. 20:21 rangi still here cait :) 20:22 cait :) 20:24 rangi ohh i see what you mean slef 20:24 jcamins Sounds like a lot of administrative work, for what seems to me limited benefit. 20:24 rangi theres no standard, but catalyst might be certified by software.coop and bywater 20:24 rangi bywater certified by equinox etc 20:24 rangi is that what you were thinking? 20:26 slef yeah, like we'd give bywater 4/5 almost immediately on request, as we keep hammering their public demo 20:26 slef (don't remember if catalyst host a sample site sorry :) ) 20:27 rangi demo.mykoha.co.nz 20:27 slef then when the web of trust gets strong enough, I'd probably propose it's incorporated into the koha-community listing 20:27 cait hm 20:27 rangi i kinda like that 20:29 slef jcamins: the benefit is informing potential customers. I feel it would be better to spend 30mins reviewing another support provider in exchange for them reviewing us, than to spend 30mins posting marketingspeak that any old fraudster could write. 20:31 jcamins Hm. 20:36 rangi speaking of which, i again!!!! forgot to sign people gpg keys at ALA 20:37 slef hey, did you sign mine at kohacon10? 20:37 jcamins rangi: if it makes you feel any better, my GPG key expired. 20:37 rangi nope i forgot that too 20:37 slef ratbag 20:37 * wizzyrea giggles 20:38 wizzyrea "ratbag" 20:38 wizzyrea that never gets old. 20:38 * cait giggles with wizzyrea 20:38 slef jcamins: heh, that's such a common FU that the co-op has an alarm on our keyring to remind us to extend them. 20:38 jcamins slef: I never use my GPG key, which is why it expired. 20:38 slef wizzyrea: that BBC sports presenter keeps using it. I really notice it now. 20:38 wizzyrea hee! 20:38 rangi jcamins: i sign the tags with them, and my RM mail 20:38 slef jcamins: we have to use ours to get access to customer data. 20:38 jcamins Actually, I should probably get a new key which is linked to my current e-mail address. 20:39 rangi and yeah, the sysadmins wont give me passwords, in any form other than encrypted 20:39 rangi which is good 20:39 slef jcamins: err, update your expiry and add your new email address as a uid? 20:39 jcamins You can use GPG for authenticating into systems? 20:39 jcamins slef: oh, I thought the GPG key was linked irretrievably to the e-mail you used to set it up initially. 20:39 slef jcamins: no, but you can feed your ssh keys to gpg-agent. 20:40 * jcamins puts it on my to-do list. 20:40 slef or at least NAFAIK 20:41 rangi when my user package is installed on a machine by a sysadmin, it pwgens a password, gpg encrypts that, and emails it to me (installs my ssh key too of course) so i can then login and do stuffs 20:41 rangi so i use my a lot 20:42 slef yeah, we log in with ssh keys but sudo is usually a pwgen password 20:43 slef jcamins: you seemed unconvinced about the mutual certs idea. Is that right? 20:44 jcamins slef: that is correct. 20:44 jcamins slef: not the peer-review/web-of-trust bit, just the idea of certifying Koha vendors in general. 20:44 slef jcamins: do you think there's a flaw in the implementation, or that the underlying problem doesn't need solving? 20:44 jcamins The latter. 20:45 jcamins There's also the problem of what do you do in a small ecosystem, if it turns out that one of the certifying authorities can't be trusted. 20:45 slef Do you think any market for lemons exists? 20:46 slef "The Market for Lemons: Quality Uncertainty and the Market Mechanism" is a 1970 paper by the economist George Akerlof. It discusses information asymmetry, which occurs when the seller knows more about a product than the buyer. Akerlof, Michael Spence, and Joseph Stiglitz jointly received the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences in 2001 for their research related to... http://a.vu/w:The_Market_for_Lemons 20:47 slef If one of the CAs sucks, other providers will decertify or low-certify them. 20:48 slef It may be possible one day to figure out a basis set of CAs along the lines of http://advogato.org/trust-metric.html seeds, but let's walk before we run. 20:49 jcamins There are currently 29 vendors listed. If you require three +1s, that means that each vendor is approving certifying an average of 10 other vendors. 20:49 slef bbl 20:49 jcamins That's a lot of work. 20:50 slef dang 20:50 slef three +1s? 20:51 jcamins slef: I'm just making up a number there, but 3 is a nice number. 20:51 slef yeah, but what's a +1? 20:51 jcamins Votes in favor of certification. 20:51 slef oh no, it doesn't work like that 20:52 slef A certificate is either issued or it's not. No voting (unless the CA wants to vote on it). 20:53 slef Anyway, I was expecting to do 1 or 2 a month, which means certifying 10 might only take 5 months. 20:54 slef It's good to look at other people's stuff anyway. 20:54 slef Also, some of those 29 are probably stale or wouldn't request certs anyway. 20:55 slef I don't see there being a koha-community.org certificate. koha-community's big asset is being neutral. 21:11 rangi i like the idea of it not being a community cert, but purely a peer one, i kinda operates this way informally anyway 21:11 rangi there are support companies in the us id recommend, and ones i wouldnt, i just havent put that down on paper 21:42 cait hmpf 21:42 rangi ? 21:43 cait my little perl program doesn't work 21:43 jcamins Time for me to go home, since my server just went down. 21:43 jcamins Bye. 21:43 cait and it's too late to figure out why 21:43 cait bye jared 21:43 rangi ah 21:44 cait probably a stupid thinking error somewhere 21:44 cait good night #koha :) 21:45 rangi night 23:49 Brooke kia ora 23:49 bg hi Brooke 23:49 Brooke 0/ 23:50 rangi hi Brooke 23:50 Brooke :)