Time Nick Message
00:03 NateC ok quittin time for me ginight #koha!
00:33 snail I've started work on some of the issues with the wikipedia page, see: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Talk:Koha_%28software%29#Requested_move
00:38 rangi snail:
00:38 rangi 007350135
00:38 rangi look for that at http://oami.europa.eu/CTMOnline/RequestManager/en_SearchBasic
00:40 snail rangi: PTFS have the US trademark?
00:40 rangi yes
00:40 rangi but hlt has the EU CTM
00:40 snail cool, now to forge a persistent url to that as for the reference
00:40 rangi which came initially from the french trademark, which predates the US one
00:41 rangi so your talk is slightly misleading
00:41 rangi both have trademarks
00:42 snail will update shortly
00:46 rangi i see one problem
00:46 rangi http://www.librarytechnology.org/ils-turnover-reverse.pl?Year=2011
00:46 rangi liblime are shedding customers like crazy, what happens when they get out of the koha game
00:47 jcamins rangi: "LibLime was a support provider for a fork of Koha_(koha_community.org software)"?
00:48 rangi im just not sure tying them to the domains is good
00:48 rangi i have hope still that one day the project will get koha.org back
00:50 snail rangi: I fully understand that you would like the domain back, and if that happens we can rename everything back again
00:50 snail rangi: the problem right now is finding a pair of names that are clear, unambiguous and non-POV
00:51 rangi why not leave the fork out
00:51 rangi or call it harley, like they do
00:52 rangi koha.org advertises harley
00:52 rangi they advertise a may 2010 and a september 2010 release of Harley
00:54 jcamins There was a September 2010 release?
00:54 jcamins I had no idea.
00:54 rangi apparently so
00:54 rangi they call their software one of three things when marketing it, Harley, PTFS Master, or Liblime Enterprise Koha
00:55 rangi they never refer to it as koha.org koha
00:55 rangi i guess tying it to the domain name just seems like an artificial distinction
00:55 rangi to me anyway
00:57 mtj rangi: yeah, agreed
00:58 mtj the only relationship koha.org has to ptfs/liblime, is they own it
00:58 snail it is an artificial distinction, deliberately, because i'm trying to avoid marketing-speak, otherwise I'd have left the liblime page as a cut'n'paste of their press release
01:00 rangi im just not sure what the split is meant to achieve
01:00 rangi i cant see that it will stop any editing
01:01 rangi probably just start yet another argument
01:01 snail rangi: avoiding the need to mention both pieces of software on the same page
01:01 rangi well they dont call theirs koha, so why mention it?
01:02 snail the naming conventions don't follow what things are marketed as, but what they're known as
01:02 rangi well its known by me as a piece of shit
01:02 snail with a strong weighting towards what they're known as by third parties
01:02 rangi but we arent gonna call it that
01:03 snail if you make the paper calling it that, I'll be happy to add it myself
01:03 rangi i guess i dont care enough to fight it, but all i can see is its gonna cause more ructions than it solves
01:04 rangi the fact that their customers hate them will resolve this in the end
01:04 rangi so meh whatever
01:06 jcamins Uh-oh.
01:06 jcamins My stove just broke.
01:06 jcamins I turn it on, light it, and a few seconds later, the flame goes out and the gas doesn't.
01:06 rangi yikes
01:07 rangi thats about the worst possible result
01:07 rangi lucky you noticed
01:08 jcamins Yeah, I'll say!
01:08 jcamins I don't understand how that's even possible.
01:09 rangi i guess it cuts out for a second
01:09 rangi air in the pipes?
01:09 jcamins I guess.
01:10 jcamins Unfortunately I can't really safely use the microwave either, if there's a possibility there's gas in the air.
01:10 ibeardslee town supply or bottle?
01:10 jcamins Town supply.
01:12 rangi prolly need to get someone to come look at it
01:12 jcamins Yeah.
01:13 jcamins Unfortunately, it's not ConEdison, so they're closed.
01:13 rangi do you have gas heating?
01:13 rangi lots of american houses have furnaces eh?
01:14 * rangi is paranoid but id check that too
01:14 jcamins You know, I'm not entirely sure what the heat is.
01:14 jcamins We live in a big apartment building with radiators.
01:14 rangi ahhh
01:14 rangi SEP then
01:16 mtj i think splitting the Koha wiki page into 2, based on domain-names is a horrible idea
01:19 mtj "After the move Koha (software) should redirect to the Koha disambiguation page and LibLime should be a redirect to Koha (koha.org software). "
01:19 mtj liblime != koha.org
01:20 mtj one is a company, one is a website
01:27 rangi gah wiki spammers
01:27 rangi diaf
01:28 rangi http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges
01:32 rangi right afternoon tea, i better get my smile on
01:32 rangi bbiab
01:34 eythian Grr, the 'lowestPriority' column in the reserves table appears to be used but not documented.
01:40 eythian http://paper.st/~pipes/WLG.png
02:31 eythian Grr, the 'constrainttype' column in the reserves table appears to be used but not documented.
02:32 rangi im not sure they actually are any more
02:32 eythian hmm, they're referenced by bits of code in some degree anyway.
02:32 eythian I'm not sure whether those thigns are used thought
02:33 rangi yeah
02:33 rangi http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Holds_Rewrite_RFC
03:31 kmkale Namaskar #koha
05:42 cait good morning #koh
05:42 cait a
07:49 magnuse @wunder bodo, norway
07:49 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 6.0�C (8:50 AM CET on March 02, 2011). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 3.0�C. Windchill: 0.0�C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
07:51 magnuse a strong gale is expected this evening, with 24 m/s wind
07:54 francharb hello all
08:02 magnuse hiya
08:02 hdl hi magnuse
08:02 magnuse bonjour hdl
10:52 kf hi #koha
10:54 kf anyone any idea about missing pagination in reports? :(
10:55 magnuse hiya kf - nope, sorry
10:56 kf this is really annoying
10:57 slef bah, I just replied to something rangi had already answered. broken_threads--
10:58 magnuse hey, where did bugzilla go?
10:58 slef magnuse: worksforme
10:58 magnuse me too, i cliked an old link to bugs.k....org
10:59 magnuse sorry 'bout that
10:59 slef k*@!.org
10:59 magnuse yep
10:59 slef ok
10:59 magnuse kf: bug 3315?
10:59 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3315 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Aggregate SQL clauses break pagination in guided reports
10:59 slef my IRC client was being artificially intelligent and showed a triple ...
11:00 magnuse hehe
11:00 kf will check
11:00 kf thx!
11:27 kf @later tell jcamins take a look at bug 3315 - missing pagination in reports
11:27 huginn kf: The operation succeeded.
11:30 kf I think he was running into this a few days ago
11:39 kf huginn botsnack cake
11:39 huginn kf: downloading the Perl source
11:39 kf !huginn botsnack cake
11:41 druthb good morning, #koha.
12:08 jcamins Good morning, #koha
12:08 jcamins kf: thanks.
12:08 druthb hi, jcamins!
12:10 kf jcamins: If you can fix it I promise to test ;)
12:10 kf hi druthb :)
12:28 jcamins Yay! Two druthbs!
12:28 kf yay!
12:28 druthb1 :D
12:33 gmcharlt good morning/afternoon/evening
12:35 kf hi gmcharlt
12:54 kf jcamins: you should update the irc regulars wiki page :)
12:56 jcamins kf_mtg: I'm not the only one whose bio is a bit out of date!
12:58 jcamins druthb++ # her awesomeness knows no bounds
12:58 * druthb blushes. 'tweren't nuthin.
12:59 magnuse dig in, folks http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/IRC_Regulars
13:03 * druthb updates her entry there
13:14 tcohen hi #koha
13:14 tcohen if you where to lower the '1 minute' frequency for reindexing updated records
13:15 tcohen how low would be comfortable for you?
13:15 tcohen 10 secs for auths and 1 minute for biblio?
13:18 sekjal tcohen: depends on how busy the library is
13:18 sekjal lots of circulation means lots of biblios getting updated
13:19 sekjal if the frequency is too low, then the index can trip over itself
13:19 tcohen sekjal: it depends. If everything is handled serially by a single process...
13:19 tcohen there would not be concurrency at all
13:20 tcohen (race conditions)
13:21 sekjal ah, so that's what we're talking. sounds good to me. triggering the next runthrough of the indexer when the previous run finishes (plus pad time), rather than on cron
13:21 tcohen right sekjal
13:21 tcohen i've submited patches for this
13:21 tcohen I plan to refine a little the scripts
13:21 tcohen and resend
13:22 sekjal tcohen: that sounds very nice
13:22 tcohen what I ask you is what default frequency u think could be a good default
13:23 tcohen we use 10 secs for authorities, and 6*authfreq for biblios
13:23 tcohen 10 secs its ok for our librarians to feel
13:23 tcohen their new authorities are "instantly available" when cataloguing
13:24 sekjal that sounds reasonable to me.
13:24 tcohen and 60 secs for biblios has been enough
13:26 tcohen perl developers: is there a way to avoid smth like this:
13:26 tcohen $var = (something) ? something : something_else;
13:26 tcohen (avoid putting 'something' two times)
13:26 tcohen ??
13:27 sekjal $var = something || something_else; # I think might work.... seen it before
13:27 jcamins I think you need parentheses:
13:27 jcamins $var = (something || something_else);
13:31 * jcamins topples over in shock - do we really not have an index on cn_sort?
13:33 tcohen jcamins & sekjal: thanks
13:33 tcohen parenthesis needed
13:34 * jcamins topples over in shock again - we're using VARCHAR(100) for biblionumber and subscriptionid in the serial table?
13:35 sekjal this is going to be another one of those days where I'm constantly confused, isn't it? varchar? really?
13:35 jcamins Uh-huh.
13:36 jcamins Don't get too used to me being not toppled yet, though. I'm only 85% of the way through the schema.
13:36 druthb If you're gonna topple over in shock repeatedly, it may be helpful to be build like a Weeble, like me.
13:37 jcamins Okay, no more toppling.
13:41 tcohen master means 3.4? I prepared the sysprefs for my next submission
13:41 tcohen and found a new set of steps for 3.4
13:42 jcamins tcohen: that's correct.
14:03 tcohen jcamins: got network problems here, sorry
14:05 jcamins tcohen: if the perl xt/sysprefs.t command succeeds, you can go ahead and submit your patch. The wiki describes the easy way for those of us who don't know anything about adding sysprefs.
14:05 tcohen oh, so it's just a shortcut for the same
14:05 jcamins s/don't/didn't
14:06 tcohen jcamins: thanks
14:36 Brooke_ kia ora!
14:36 magnuse kia ora Brooke_!
14:37 kf_mtg hi Brooke_
14:37 Brooke_ :)
14:37 druthb hi, Brooke_!
14:37 * Brooke_ feels the love!
14:38 jcamins Howdy
14:38 wahanui1 que tal, jcamins
14:43 Brooke_ hooray for no more meetings
14:44 magnuse well, there is one in about 3 hours, if i'm not mistaken... ;-)
14:44 * Brooke_ knows about that one, but that one will be fun.
14:44 Brooke_ Free Venison Stew!
14:45 magnuse sounds good!
14:46 kf i had 2 meethings today
14:46 kf that's enough for one day
14:47 magnuse not coming to the community meeting, kf?
14:47 kf args
14:47 wizzyrea oo i have a sense that I'll be participating in 2 meetings at once this afternoon
14:47 kf yep, but not counting it
14:48 wizzyrea beat that!
14:48 kf hehe
14:48 wizzyrea :)
14:48 wizzyrea and good morning
14:48 wizzyrea afternoon
14:48 wizzyrea evening
14:48 wizzyrea sleeping time
14:48 druthb :P Mine are overlapping too, wizzyrea.
14:48 jcamins Will the query pastebot is about to share work?
14:48 pastebot0 "jcamins" at 208.120.0.116 pasted "INSERT INTO deletedbiblio SELE" (1 line) at http://paste.koha-community.org/160
14:48 pastebot0 "jcamins" at 208.120.0.116 pasted "INSERT INTO deletedbiblio SELE" (1 line) at http://paste.koha-community.org/161
14:48 jcamins Oops, I think I must've doubleclicked.
14:48 jcamins They're the same.
14:54 JesseM what do you want me to do with the Bio
14:55 JesseM oops
15:00 jcamins Answer: yeah, that query seems to work.
15:02 jcamins transactions++
15:06 sekjal did runtime parameters in Reports make it into Koha yet, or is that still in QA?
15:07 paul_p sekjal, it's in 3.2 afaik
15:08 sekjal thanks, paul_p. Reading the [?] entry on it now
15:11 tcohen paul_p: where do I find an updated copyright/license header for koha files ?
15:11 paul_p tcohen, ??? the copyright/license is on top of each .pl file
15:11 paul_p (otherwise, pls file a bug, it should !)
15:11 tcohen i ask because there are plenty of different headings
15:13 wizzyrea atz: bet you thought you'd never make the NYT
15:13 wizzyrea http://www.nytimes.com/external/readwriteweb/2011/02/28/28readwriteweb-do-e-book-users-need-a-bill-of-rights-libra-53704.html?ref=technology
15:13 tcohen rebuild_zebra.pl and zebraqueue_daemon.pl
15:13 tcohen don't have a proper header
15:14 atz damn... i sould get google ads on that thing
15:14 atz *should
15:14 wizzyrea *nod*
15:14 atz haha... and they got my name wrong
15:14 atz John is my brother
15:14 atz this is awesome
15:14 wizzyrea ^.^
15:15 atz this is karma from his high school senior homecoming court when they introduced him as "Joe Atzberger"
15:16 atz the fate of the youngest sibling
15:16 SharonNEKLS I'm the youngest of 6, mom went through a lot of names before she finally hit mine
15:17 jcamins atz: another family with all J names?
15:17 atz nah, just us two. my sister is elizabeth (liz). parents: tom, chris.
15:18 * wizzyrea 's irc blows up with notifications... keywords!
15:18 atz =-_s'plosion_-=
15:19 atz sorta weird for a blog to cite but not link
15:19 wizzyrea yea, I was thinking that too
15:19 atz i guess i am interesting but not reputable
15:19 atz the blog's only like 2.5 weeks old anyway
15:20 wizzyrea well if you weren't before, you are now >.>
15:24 tcohen it there a git copy command?
15:25 atz tcohen: you mean at the file level? or the whole repo?
15:25 tcohen file level
15:25 tcohen I plan to commit (again) a rewrite of rebuild_zebra.pl
15:25 atz i don't think there is, just cp and git add
15:26 tcohen and need to track that file's history...
15:26 tcohen (rewrite as library)
15:26 atz then probably should create a branch for it
15:26 atz and make your changes right on top
15:27 tcohen i'd like to do a
15:27 tcohen git copy misc/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra.pl C4/Catalog/Zebra.pm
15:28 tcohen i'm currently working on a branch of master
15:28 slef life is a branch of master
15:29 tcohen slef: lol
15:29 tcohen i'm happy today, i hope devs aren't too rude on my commit :-D
15:30 jcamins tcohen: the trick is to bribe everyone with sourdough.
15:31 tcohen jcamins: true story (barney's dixit)
15:32 atz tcohen: git tries to find file copies (as part of the compression logic) at commit time. there is an option to make it "look harder"
15:32 tcohen atz, just found about it on google, thanks!
15:32 atz np
15:33 tcohen i think the more I manage to do smth like git ocpy, the less rude you'll all be on my patch :-D
15:33 tcohen jajaja
15:42 magnuse tcohen: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines has a standard copyright/license header, but who knows if it's up to date?
15:44 jcamins Does anyone know how the circulation statistics report works?
15:47 kf jcamins: not sure, is it on eof the build in reports?
15:47 jcamins kf: yeah.
15:48 kf jcamins: I had problems with one of them and renewals - there was a limit to branch that was wrong
15:48 kf what is your question?
15:48 jcamins What is it doing?
15:48 jcamins I can't figure it out.
15:49 jcamins When I choose itemtypes for the rows, it seems to be missing some.
15:50 jcamins And I'm having trouble believing that the report is faulty, so I think the problem must be me.
15:53 slef magnus_away: tcohen: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines looks similar to the one on http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.html so I think it's up-to-date.
15:54 tcohen thanks magnus
16:00 jcamins Never mind, mystery solved.
16:00 jcamins The item type was NULL.
16:12 sekjal jcamins: that's the Koha equivalent of "the butler did it"
16:13 * druthb wonders what the Koha equivalent of "Col. Mustard, in the library, with a wrench" is.
16:14 wizzyrea diacritics, probably ;)
16:14 sekjal and possibly SIP
16:14 * druthb lols, and high-fives wizzyrea.
16:14 wizzyrea ^^
16:14 wizzyrea SIP also
16:15 wizzyrea SIP is enough to make me drink stronger things than my usual beer. Like whiskey.
16:15 jcamins wizzyrea: what, drinks that one SIPs?
16:15 * druthb sets out a bottle of Midnight Hobo for wizzyrea.
16:16 wizzyrea /me rimshots
16:16 sekjal wow, didn't know you could authenticate EZProxy with SIP
16:16 sekjal that's neat
16:16 wizzyrea ^.^ you sure can
16:19 kmkale Namaskar #koha
16:22 kf hi kmkale
16:22 kmkale hi kf
16:23 slef anyone seen (20014)Internal error: Error reading request entity data before?
16:24 slef urgh, it seems it's a generic apache something-has-crashed :(
16:27 slef I'm getting it in addbiblio. So what does addbiblio use that die()s?
16:29 slef actually, if it die()d, wouldn't Koha Carp to the browser?
16:29 gmcharlt yes, it should
16:29 slef erm, this is in addbiblio:
16:29 slef #use warnings; FIXME - Bug 2505
16:29 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2505 major, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, enable Perl warnings in all modules and scripts
16:29 slef would that stop it?
16:29 gmcharlt no
16:30 slef so what could cause an abrupt death?
16:33 gmcharlt something that is causing the Perl interpreter itself to segfault?
16:33 gmcharlt not sure - I think you'll have to stick in warn statements and narrow down the point where it's crashing
16:33 slef old skool :/
16:34 gmcharlt yup
16:35 sekjal speaking of abrupt death, anyone know why Zebra would stop merging, and indicate "previous transaction did not reach commit" without giving any other warnings or errors?
16:35 slef sekjal: iDunno. an earlier process leaving Zebra open?
16:36 gmcharlt sekjal: try bumping up the verbosity on zebraidx
16:40 * slef wanders over, kills memcache on that server and tries again :/
16:40 slef well that was silly
16:41 slef damn, still getting nothing useful in the koha-error_log. Do I have to do anything else to get warn()s to appear there?
16:41 hdl slef: have you tried to see apache logs ?
16:42 slef hdl: koha-error_log is an apache log.
16:42 slef I'm getting the apache error, but nothing from the warns I added to addbiblio.pl
16:43 jcamins slef: I find sometimes the errors don't go into the Koha error log, but the other_virtual-hosts.log
16:43 slef checking other logs...
16:45 slef not seeing the warnings in any of them :-/
16:47 slef added STDERR->autoflush(1); didn't help
16:48 slef this is a very mysterious bug. Finally I will try deleting values from the form, to see if it saves at some point
16:51 slef odd. I changed framework type and now I can see the warnings
16:56 slef I can see it reaching the "if ( $op eq "addbiblio" ) {" line but it gets no further - even a warning straight after that doesn't show. I don't understand.
17:01 kmkale slef i remember having to export KOHA_DEBUG or something to get warn's to show up in the logs. cant be more precise as i am on my son's desktop.
17:02 slef I just deleted nearly everything and it saved! So it may be something wrong in the MARC, but Koha is handling it very badly too.
17:04 slef oh now it just gets stranger
17:05 slef If I click the - next to 245
17:05 slef @marc 245
17:05 huginn slef: The title and statement of responsibility area of the bibliographic description of a work. [a,b,c,f,g,h,k,n,p,s,6,8]
17:05 slef and then save, it will save, including the title. Anyone ever seen that behaviour before?
17:15 wizzyrea I haven't :(
17:15 slef Found the source record: yaz-client complains "Length implementation at offset 22 should hold a digit. Assuming 0"
17:15 slef offset 22 of what, though :-/
17:15 jcamins LDR.
17:15 slef @marc ldr
17:15 huginn slef: unknown tag ldr
17:15 slef @marc leader
17:15 huginn slef: unknown tag leader
17:15 slef huginn: you suck
17:15 huginn slef: I've exhausted my database of quotes
17:15 jcamins @marc 000
17:15 huginn jcamins: unknown tag 000
17:15 wizzyrea aside: http://www.screencast.com/users/neklstraining/folders/Jing/media/41da003f-8f1f-45b0-be16-eb5ba0fc8ef8 has anybody seen this before, where long overdue mucks the result list?
17:15 * slef goes to loc.gov
17:16 slef wizzyrea: not me yet
17:19 slef rebuilding the leader (using the ...) doesn't allow me to save, so do you think I'm safe to assume it's not the leader problem breaking Koha?
17:20 wizzyrea ah no oleonard today
17:21 slef wizzyrea: we love you too
17:21 wizzyrea aww
17:21 * wizzyrea doesn't know if that was sarcasm or serious
17:22 wizzyrea makes this face: O.o
17:22 * jcamins saw that. Yesterday.
17:23 * jcamins will have to look and see why it happened.
17:23 * Brooke_ notes that if it's 5 o'clock in the UK then that means we can have a pint...
17:23 wizzyrea I was just noting that there wasn't a bug in bz for that, that I can find anyway
17:24 slef Brooke_: it's been all-day-drinking here for a few years now. But I might have to carry a bookcase down stone stairs in a bit, so best not drink.
17:31 kmkale brb
17:35 * Brooke_ shuffles pixels in anticipation of meeting jiggerybobbers.
17:43 slef I can import the record into our demo (which doesn't use authorities) and I can import it into the faulty catalogue if I delete the authors.
17:43 slef So I currently suspect their authority configuration
17:44 * thd is suspicious of all authority :)
17:47 * Brooke_ watches the clock...
17:48 * Brooke_ waves to Paul
17:49 Brooke_ #startmeeting
17:49 huginn Meeting started Wed Mar 2 17:56:09 2011 UTC. The chair is Brooke_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:49 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:49 Brooke_ #topic Introductions
17:49 paul_p paul_p, BibLibre, France
17:49 Brooke_ Haere Mai, Egondea, Welcome to #koha, please introduce yourselves as we wait for others to arrive :)
17:50 * gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, Equinox
17:50 * cait = Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
17:50 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
17:50 * jcamins = Jared Camins-Esakov, ByWater Solutions
17:50 kmkale chatzilla tells me we are 4 mins early ;)
17:50 jwagner Jane Wagner, PTFS
17:50 * wizzyrea liz rea, NEKLS
17:50 * slef = MJ Ray, CEO software.coop
17:50 * davi davi = worker for software.coop
17:50 JesseM Jesse Maseto, ByWater Solutions
17:50 * magnuse Magnus Enger. Libriotech, Norway
17:50 slef kmkale: I think we are early too
17:50 kmkale Koustubha Kale Anant Corporation, VPM, Thane, granthalaya.org
17:50 bg Brendan Gallagher ByWater Solutions
17:51 * sekjal is Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions
17:51 SandeepBhavsar Sandeep Bhavsar Librarian Vidya Prasarak mandal, Thane's Dr. V N Bedekar Institute of Management Studies
17:52 NateC Nate Curulla: ByWater Solutions
17:52 space_librarian_home Shelley Gurney, Catalyst IT
17:53 * hdl Henri-Damien LAURENT, biblibre
17:53 Brooke_ welcome everyone again and now it is properly time ;)
17:54 Brooke_ #topic Roadmap to 3.2
17:54 Brooke_ so, do we have an update on the 3.2 Roadmap?
17:54 slef Do we have a chris_n?
17:55 gmcharlt chris_n++ # 3.2.4 and 3.2.5
17:55 wizzyrea chris_n++
17:55 hdl chris_n++
17:55 wizzyrea maybe enough beeps will raise him
17:55 Brooke_ chris_n++ for timely delivery :D
17:55 cait chris_n++
17:56 paul_p can we speak of a security list as 3.2.5 has been released because of a security (hacker) issue ?
17:56 slef chris_n++ for timely releases, chris_n-- for not being here or putting his report on the wiki page?
17:56 Brooke_ paul go for it
17:56 gmcharlt paul_p: I've added an item to the agenda
17:56 gmcharlt after the KohaCon 11 discussion
17:56 paul_p gmcharlt, sorry, missed it
17:56 Brooke_ it's not on mine either
17:56 gmcharlt paul_p: no problem, I *just* added it now
17:56 paul_p ah, ok ;-)
17:56 gmcharlt http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_Meeting,_2_March_2011#Agenda
17:56 Brooke_ makes more sense here, methinks.
17:57 slef #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_Meeting,_2_March_2011
17:57 gmcharlt Brooke_: it's not specific to 3.2
17:57 Brooke_ okily dokily.
17:57 gmcharlt shall we move on to 3.0?
17:57 Brooke_ yep
17:57 Brooke_ #topic 3.0 Roadmap
17:58 mtj_ morning
17:58 gmcharlt I actually have an update for 3.0 - with hdl's consent, I intend to cut a security release of 3.0
17:58 gmcharlt which, IIRC, would make it 3.0.7
17:58 hdl yes.
17:59 Brooke_ anything else?
17:59 wahanui1 rumour has it anything else is reinventing the wheel
17:59 gmcharlt and ... I think that's about it for an update on 3.0
17:59 Brooke_ brevity is a virtue sir
18:00 Brooke_ #topic Roadmap to 3.4
18:00 hdl yes. it should be noted in the relase notes that it should be the last.
18:00 Brooke_ Chris is skived off to a cool conference
18:00 Brooke_ anyone want to sub?
18:00 paul_p I have something to say about 3.4 & bugzilla.
18:00 Brooke_ shoot
18:01 Brooke_ allez :D
18:01 slef #info the apologies section of the wiki page says "chris cormack will try to be there but is at a conference"
18:01 paul_p I did a lot of wrangling recently, and have some important numbers :85 bugs are "patch pushed" waiting for "bug closed" and 152 bugs "needs signoff"
18:02 paul_p What can we do to lower those numbers ?
18:02 hdl hehe: test and sign off ;)
18:02 paul_p the more there are, the hard it is to deal with them (specially the "need sign-off")
18:02 paul_p hdl, yes, so I change my question = how can we motivate ppl to sign-off & close ?
18:02 paul_p should we organise a "wrangling day" ? should we publish a weekly summary ?
18:03 cait I think hdl is right, we need more people testing and signing-off
18:03 paul_p a news in the newsletter ?
18:03 magnuse it's probably a question of time for most of us...
18:03 sekjal scoreboard
18:03 wizzyrea scoreboard++
18:03 Brooke_ #idea Wrangling Day
18:03 Brooke_ a newsletter item would make nengard happy
18:03 hdl what could help would be to have some dedicated server with as many vhosts as branches
18:03 Brooke_ so I'm all for it
18:03 gmcharlt hdl: is BibLibre offering to set one up?
18:04 hdl we could do that.... on the new jenkins server.
18:04 hdl Problem would be the databases...
18:04 paul_p magnuse, yes, but once we've said it's a question of time, we have 2 options: or we *decide* to do something, each of us taking, for example 20 bugs. or we do nothing, and those numbers will continue to grow and our workflow is just a theory,...
18:04 slef magnuse++
18:04 hdl any help would be appreciated in setting that up and automating that..
18:04 Brooke_ #help bug wranglers to address backlog
18:04 paul_p I don't have time, but I take time !
18:04 magnuse paul_p++
18:05 paul_p last night I worked up to 1AM, and signed/closed something like 20
18:05 paul_p (i'm not asking everybody to work up to 1AM ;-) )
18:05 paul_p s/asking/suggesting/
18:05 magnuse (it might help, though ;-) )
18:05 Brooke_ I appreciate your dedication, as always Paul
18:06 paul_p thx Brooke_, but me alone won't be enough.
18:06 thd hdl: Do you not have appropriate test databases?
18:06 hdl thd: we have for unimarc
18:06 Brooke_ I realise that, and I like the 20 per person. Do we have enough volunteers that could spare the time and technical expertise to make this happen?
18:06 hdl and databases are not automated.
18:06 slef Each time I put aside time, by the point I've got myself to the point of having a current master, reminded myself how to do the signing-off and found something I could test (right MARC format, reproducible problem, and so on), I'm out of time. Why does it take so long?
18:06 paul_p a good, but not enough news: Julian Maurice started yesterday a 6month time with us. He's a student, and will be dedicated to signin/closing/submitting BibLibre patches.
18:06 gmcharlt with respect, it is not just a numbers game
18:06 hdl And some bugs are really tightened to some systempreferences
18:07 gmcharlt the quality of the signoffs and testing also matters
18:07 slef gmcharlt++ security_bugs--
18:07 cait gmcharlt++
18:07 magnuse gmcharlt++
18:07 Brooke_ I'd imagine that they won't necessarily break down cleanly as some would work packaged together, too
18:08 Brooke_ but someplace there needs be a line drawn if we can manage
18:08 sekjal would be really helpful if bug reports came with testing plans. "Here is how to confirm a fix works"
18:08 gmcharlt in terms of prioritizing, I suggest that the patches awaiting signoff should come first
18:08 Brooke_ many hands make light work.
18:08 davi I could contribute 1 hour of my time to sign some bugs more
18:08 thd I think that we need to develop some automated systems for testing so that testing becomes easier.
18:08 paul_p gmcharlt, double right = it also means that it takes time to signoff/close (see some bugs that i've commented "can't sign-off")
18:08 Brooke_ sekjal good idea
18:08 Brooke_ thank you davi
18:08 gmcharlt once a patch has been pushed, it has presumably been tested at least once (by the person who signed off)
18:08 slef hdl++ do we need syspref summarising in "About Koha"?
18:08 Brooke_ #idea automated testing
18:08 gmcharlt so additional testing to close the bug, while still important, is hopefully less of an issue
18:08 Brooke_ #idea testing plans in conjunction with patches
18:09 davi no Brooke_
18:09 davi np
18:09 hdl slef: i think we could adding some test plans to reproduce the bug would be helpfull...
18:09 paul_p another idea = having more than one setup, with various configs (like marc21/unimarc , IndependantBranches ON/OFF,...)
18:09 hdl But it would add some more overhead to declare bugs.
18:09 thd I did not mean that all tests should be automated but we need to have good automation for setting up tests run by humans checking behaviour.
18:10 slef hdl: I think reporting already asks for steps to reproduce the bug
18:10 wizzyrea it does
18:10 thd paul_p++ Yes, that is what I meant.
18:10 cait I am not sure we have a technical problem
18:10 cait the easy bugs are done quickly - like interface changes
18:10 hdl slef: sometimes the bug comes because of one system preference.
18:11 wizzyrea cait: agreed
18:11 hdl And user are not aware of that.
18:11 cait but there are some things I have no idea about - we need people with enough knowledge looking at them
18:11 mtj_ some bugs really need attached bib and syspref .sql files
18:11 paul_p can we consider that someone who declares a bug should be the one who closes it when "patch pushed" ? I could send some reminders to ppl in this situation ?
18:11 slef hdl: that's what I mean. If user could get a syspref summary code from "About Koha" to paste in the report which was useful to us that may help.
18:11 hdl mtj++
18:11 mtj_ complex circ bugs, etc
18:11 wizzyrea slef++ a report about the reporter's config
18:11 wizzyrea would help immensely
18:12 * Brooke_ nods.
18:12 * paul_p agrees too
18:12 gmcharlt paul_p: yes, general the person who first reported a bug ought to test and close it, so reminders would be appropriate
18:12 slef I think mtj_ might be right - it would be a settings file to attach to the bug.
18:12 hdl #idea add a syspref summary code from About Koha" to paste in the report which was useful to us that may help.
18:12 Brooke_ #idea enhancing About Koha to report more configuration details
18:12 gmcharlt (at least for project regulars, no need to bug somebody who just dropped by to report a bug)
18:12 mtj_ hdl++, yes, a very nice idea to work towards
18:12 paul_p ok, will send reminder soon unless someone objects.
18:12 Brooke_ I am hearing no objections
18:12 Brooke_ am I right?
18:13 paul_p #idea paul_p will send mail reminders to ppl that have a bug where they are "reporter" that is "patch pushed, pls close"
18:13 Brooke_ #action Paul to send a reminder about bug workflow details
18:13 mtj_ an 'about this koha' page, to attach to bug reports
18:13 thd mtj_: Some bugs definitely require much more testing work but anything we can do to make any testing easier on people with limited time should help.
18:14 slef mtj_: we already have that, don't we?
18:14 * paul_p will deal with biblibre ppl that are no more working at BibLibre :\
18:14 paul_p (nahuel mostly)
18:15 davi Sometimes the one who report a bug do not have the expertise to test-close it
18:15 gmcharlt paul_p: is he still around (in the sense of having any interest or time to work on Koha)?
18:15 magnuse davi: true
18:16 hdl gmcharlt: he is around on koha-fr but no longer any time to work on koha
18:16 paul_p gmcharlt, nope. working for a university using Koha (AixMarseille), but not on Koha at all
18:16 gmcharlt davi: perhaps, but hopefully they should at least recognize when the initial problem they reported now appears to be working
18:16 hdl gmcharlt++
18:16 gmcharlt paul_p: thanks
18:16 davi gmcharlt, working in the new release, that is to say, check close after release
18:16 davi note they can not even install a dev version maybe
18:17 davi ?
18:17 gmcharlt davi: well, then they'd have to wait until the new release to test, then
18:17 gmcharlt though that leads to a variant of one of the ideas discussed
18:17 davi It is OK to ask the reported to test, but IMHO do not set as a "have to" because some ones will not be able to
18:18 gmcharlt #idea public database that always tracks master
18:18 * paul_p is wondering if we should not remind ppl that there are bug to test/close in a weekly/bi-monthly email on koha-devel.
18:18 paul_p I feel, but i may be wrong, that many ppl could find a few minuts if they knew exactly what to do.
18:18 gmcharlt davi: hence the distinction I made between project regulars and people who submit the occassional bug report
18:18 slef paul_p: I think we are always aware of it :-/
18:18 davi ack gmcharlt
18:19 paul_p slef, everybody is aware ? i'm not sure. I had Frydolin boss on phone this morning, not sure he was aware.
18:19 Brooke_ it feels like this is exhausted
18:19 gmcharlt no! we must keep our energy up to close bugs!
18:19 Brooke_ heh
18:19 gmcharlt Brooke_: oh, you meant the agenda item ;)
18:19 paul_p and i'm sure he could tell fridolyn to take a few hours!
18:20 paul_p gmcharlt, no! to what ?
18:20 thd paul_p: I think that many people would indeed take the issue seriously if all that people had to do was test and not set up and configure the system to run the test.
18:20 gmcharlt paul_p: as in "no, we must not be exhausted" ;)
18:20 Brooke_ anything else relevant to 3.4?
18:21 Brooke_ movin' on
18:21 schuster Schuster - Plano ISD
18:21 thd mtj_: What did you mean by "about this Koha?"
18:21 Brooke_ #topic roles for 3.6
18:22 Brooke_ soooo
18:22 Brooke_ we've a slight problem here
18:22 paul_p gmcharlt, lol
18:22 Brooke_ but it's not to big to surmount.
18:22 slef I don't remember who Frydolin is.
18:22 Brooke_ Most of our slate is unopposed
18:22 paul_p slef, Progilone, french company that won at least 2 contracts in France
18:23 paul_p (Lyon2 university, Bulac university)
18:23 Brooke_ so I think that we can probably manage a blanket affirmation on those.
18:23 * gmcharlt proposes that we proceed with votes on RM, TM, and DM for 3.6; with +1/0/-1 for the current (sole) candiates
18:23 Brooke_ also, a bunch of the usual suspects are missing
18:23 Brooke_ so the proposed Release Manager is Chris Cormack
18:23 slef gmcharlt: and RMaint?
18:23 Brooke_ all in favour
18:23 magnuse #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_3.6
18:23 space_librarian_home i think Rangi was resigned to his fate before he left
18:24 slef +1
18:24 gmcharlt slef: yes, and RMaint
18:24 paul_p slef, http://www.progilone.com/Templates/Koha.htm
18:24 thd +1
18:24 magnuse +1
18:24 paul_p +1
18:24 gmcharlt +1
18:24 sekjal +1
18:24 jcamins +1
18:24 cait +1
18:24 space_librarian_home +1
18:24 wizzyrea +1
18:24 brendan_ +1
18:25 davi 0
18:25 JesseM +1
18:25 schuster +1
18:25 kmkale +1
18:25 * gmcharlt further moves that we vote on sekjal's bid to be QAM
18:25 Brooke_ #agreed Chris successfully suckered into another 6 months.
18:26 Brooke_ I'm gettin' there gmcharlt.
18:26 Brooke_ that's down the line.
18:26 Brooke_ I go by the list or I git too squirrelly ;P
18:26 Brooke_ Translation Manager is proposed to be Frédéric Demians
18:26 gmcharlt Brooke_: there is a motion on the table for voting on the slate of RM, TM, DM, and RMaint
18:27 gmcharlt it might save time to vote on all of the unopposed positions
18:27 * slef thought "tabled" meant something different to USians
18:27 Brooke_ which is what I initially said, but I thought there was disagreement on that...
18:28 * paul_p was not sure to have understand, but anyway will say +1 once or 4 times.
18:28 gmcharlt slef: tabled != on the table, in US parliamentary speak
18:28 Brooke_ so how about this
18:28 Brooke_ we know chris is in
18:28 Brooke_ let's bundle the other posts
18:28 Brooke_ is everyone fine with that?
18:28 space_librarian_home yep
18:29 paul_p gmcharlt, in france, things that are on the table is usually food :D (kidding, we also use "tabled" in the "to be discussed" too)
18:29 gmcharlt yes
18:29 Brooke_ so
18:29 thd Brooke_: I see no opposition to a blanket vote in the log
18:29 slef paul_p: ("tabled" is "postponed" to US I think)
18:29 mtj__ i would like to propose a *new* position, some person/people to be elected as admins for the Koha lists on nabble.com
18:29 Brooke_ Frédéric Demians for Translation Manager, Nicole Engard for Documentation Manager, Ian Walls for QA, Chris Nighswonger for Release Maintainer
18:29 davi paul_p, in Spain the discussion of a subject can be on the table too
18:30 Brooke_ hang on to that idea mtj
18:30 Brooke_ I'll come back to it and if I don't yell at meh
18:30 mtj__ *nod*
18:30 Brooke_ so all in favour of the afforementioned blanket slate
18:30 gmcharlt +1
18:30 magnuse +1
18:30 space_librarian_home +1
18:30 thd slef: 'tabled' meaning postponed is different from 'on the table' meaning the item for current discussion.
18:30 davi 0
18:30 slef 0
18:30 thd +1
18:30 brendan_ +1
18:30 cait +1
18:30 JesseM +1
18:30 paul_p +1
18:30 wizzyrea +1
18:31 cait and we have things on the table in Germany too ;)
18:31 sekjal +1
18:31 slef thd: not in English English
18:31 jcamins +1
18:31 schuster +1
18:31 hdl +1
18:31 slef thd: we use "shelved" for postponed instead.
18:32 paul_p should we vote to decide if we can use the "tabled" word ? :D :D
18:32 thd slef: Do you use 'tabled' at all?
18:32 slef paul_p: yeah and we'll lose and still get confused!
18:32 * gmcharlt proposes that we use whatever the French term is ;)
18:32 slef thd: yes, to describe the state of the motion on the table.
18:33 Brooke_ there's a current motion, and there are actions on the table, but not usually both at once
18:33 Brooke_ anyhoo
18:33 Brooke_ think it's safe to say
18:33 Brooke_ #agreed the motion carries
18:33 Brooke_ that leaves us with Bug Wrangler
18:33 Brooke_ and a proposal for a new slot
18:34 thd slef: What is the standard manual for parliamentary procedure in the UK?
18:34 paul_p looking at bugwrangler position on the wiki page, I see "to do some PR about the work done", that's what I suggested a few mn ago with my weekly mail ;-) I candidate to write this PR. You'll enjoy my english ;-)
18:34 gmcharlt I propose that both applications for Bug Wrangler be accepted
18:34 slef thd: I think the Speaker makes it up as he goes along.
18:34 thd :)
18:34 paul_p the more bugwrangler we have the better it is.
18:34 thd pau_p++++
18:34 cait gmcharlt++
18:34 Brooke_ I <3 that proposal gmcharlt
18:35 paul_p and I feel i've been a BW recently, event without the official position...
18:35 * Brooke_ notes that paul is getting dangerously close to a nomination with those words...
18:35 slef just to check, everyone has noticed my drastic WONTFIX plan?
18:35 mtj__ im keen to be a bug-wrangler
18:35 * paul_p knew that and accept the position if ppl want ;-)
18:36 Brooke_ so then, I'll entertain a motion to have Marcel de Rooy, MJ Ray, and Paul Poulain as Bug Wranglers.
18:36 cait I think the more bug wranglers the better
18:36 thd slef: Would explain you won't fix plan?
18:36 gmcharlt slef: noticed, though I'd prefer that those bugs be at least glanced at individually before being marked WONTFIX
18:36 * gmcharlt is willing to help with that
18:36 cait I will try to spend more time on it too - after march is over
18:36 slef gmcharlt: yes, I plan to check each one.
18:36 paul_p slef, or there is something i'm misunderstanding, or I agree with your proposition
18:36 cait too many projects at the moment :(
18:36 slef thd: so that we can concentrate on 3.6, I'd systematically check and RESOLVE WONTFIX the ~140 bugs reported not against maintained versions and I'd suggest reclassifying the 771 bugs reported against master as reported against the version which immediately follows the date they were reported
18:37 mtj__ Brooke_: can i be a bug-wrangler too?
18:37 Brooke_ hmmm
18:37 Brooke_ this is pretty fluid
18:37 Brooke_ what do we do with this as a group?
18:37 sekjal is there a formal relationship between the Bug Wranglers and the QAM?
18:37 Brooke_ should we have a wrangler of the month?
18:37 davi sometimes WONTFIX can be as a wish for future version
18:37 Brooke_ or a team with an appointed chair?
18:37 gmcharlt sekjal: I thnk that would be up to the QAM and the bug wranglers to work out
18:38 cait some bugs might be reported against older versions but still be existing on master
18:38 thd slef: I had read that but do you mean not maintained is that bugs reported against 3.0 would not be fixed if no longer maintained?
18:38 sekjal gmcharlt: sounds good
18:38 Brooke_ should we then allow Ian to appoint as many bug wranglers as he deems fit?
18:38 paul_p Brooke_, team-member of the month is only used in Mc Donalds here, so it's really not something ppl are proud to be ;-)
18:38 * gmcharlt is in favor of having anybody who wants to wrangle bugs to get the title of Bug Wrangler, as long as they publicly commit to put in a reasonable amount of effort to it
18:38 slef thd: yes, and all the 2.x and 1.x ones.
18:39 paul_p slef, i fear it will be a mountain to move !
18:39 mtj__ gmcharlt++ , i agree
18:39 paul_p that's so many !!!
18:39 paul_p gmcharlt++
18:39 Brooke_ so then
18:39 Brooke_ open position
18:39 magnuse gmcharlt++
18:39 Brooke_ that reports to the QA manager
18:39 slef paul_p: 140ish, plus some fraction of the 700+ bugs labelled master.
18:39 Brooke_ and receives recognition at some point that they're an official bug wrangler
18:40 Brooke_ the top wrangler can get a can of raid in the post ;)
18:40 thd slef: I assume that reporters would be notified with the suggestion that they login and reopen any bug which they believe still exists.
18:40 slef thd: reopen and update the labels, yes.
18:40 schuster part of the problem with the old ones it is hard to locate the originator...
18:40 Brooke_ resolved: as many wranglers as will step forward
18:40 paul_p slef, /me think it would be more interesting to test/close pushed patches don't you agree ?
18:41 gmcharlt thd: slef: and if a bug is marked WONTFIX, a comment could be added that the WONTFIX was done semi-automatically, and is not meant as a moral pronouncement on the validity of the bug
18:41 paul_p s/interesting/useful/
18:41 thd gmcharlt++
18:41 slef paul_p: making it easier to find relevant things in bugzilla will free everyone's time for working on current development.
18:41 paul_p agreed
18:42 schuster slef++
18:42 slef this is unfun grunt work, but it's been left too long
18:42 Brooke_ moving on to admins for the Koha lists on Nabble
18:42 paul_p OK, rereading your proposal, I misunderstood something slef !
18:42 paul_p slef++
18:42 thd Can we have a label for closed by rule but without investigation?
18:42 paul_p very good idea !
18:42 gmcharlt mtj: could you clarify what you mean by Nabble admin?
18:43 gmcharlt I thought Nabble itself was just one (of several) archives of the mailng list
18:43 paul_p why does not everybody in the world speak french? that would make my life so easier :D
18:43 gmcharlt *list
18:43 mtj__ yeah, i would like to ask the admins at nabble, to grant access to the Koha lists at nabble.com
18:43 mtj__ these lists... -> http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/
18:44 slef It is, but the admin can update headers and so on. I think kados is the admin.
18:44 mtj__ for 1 or 2 elected kc.org people
18:44 gmcharlt whoever it is did change the project link to koha-community.org
18:44 slef I got the koha nabble moved to the new site, but I find nabble very hard to use.
18:44 slef Ah, that was probably me whinging at them repeatedly :)
18:45 gmcharlt coo
18:45 gmcharlt cool, even
18:45 slef oh yeah, it says Hugo <Nabble> is the admin now.
18:45 mtj__ gmcharlt: hugo, a nabble admin did that, as i asked him to , last week-ish
18:45 slef mtj__: ah, well done! I didn't think I got anywhere!
18:45 mtj__ so currently, only hugo@nabble is an admin...
18:46 paul_p slef, previously, joshua upgraded all bug from N to N+1 when N was released. I think it means many bugs are now irrelevant, so setting WONTFIX is really a good idea !
18:46 slef mtj__: are you willing to admin?
18:46 slef anyone else willing to admin?
18:46 mtj__ i propose we elect 1/2 people here, and ask hugo et al nicely f they will grant them admin access
18:46 cait paul_p/slef: can we reopen bugs if we find they still apply to master/3.2?
18:46 * gmcharlt tosses name in the hat for redundancy's sake
18:46 mtj__ i am willing to admin the nabble lists
18:46 gmcharlt cait: sure
18:46 thd slef: Can we have a label in bugzilla for closed by rule but without investigation?
18:47 Brooke_ so I'm hearing gmcharlt and mtj
18:47 paul_p cait, of course !
18:47 Brooke_ anyone else?
18:47 irma Hi all - Irma from CALYX - sorry I am so late ...
18:47 Brooke_ all in favour of gmcharlt and mtj as nabble admins
18:47 mtj__ http://nabble-support.1.n2.nabble.com/Request-to-update-Koha-ILS-mailing-lists-topic-page-with-new-website-address-td6029182.html#a6030223
18:48 slef thd: I think a message is better, but maybe a bugzilla admin can tell us if that's possible.
18:48 Brooke_ oi
18:48 Brooke_ vote.
18:48 space_librarian_home +1
18:48 slef +1
18:48 kmkale +1
18:48 jcamins +1
18:48 gmcharlt thd: slef: yes, a new status could be added, but I prefer simply using a message
18:48 slef (anything so I don't have to use that site again!)
18:48 hdl +1
18:48 paul_p +1
18:48 sekjal +1
18:48 mtj__ +1
18:49 thd gmcharlt: How can the message be found systematically?
18:49 thd +1
18:49 gmcharlt thd: why would it need to?
18:49 hdl thd: it will be sent to the reporter.
18:49 gmcharlt somebody who cares about a particular issue would either reopen it or file a new bug
18:49 JesseM +1
18:50 magnuse +1
18:50 thd gmcharlt: If you are looking for bugs which might be present but had been closed without investigation there should be a way to find them.
18:50 Brooke_ #action motion carries
18:51 slef thd: search bug content for a phrase or tag we put in the message.
18:51 Brooke_ moving on
18:51 Brooke_ #topic KohaCon 11
18:52 Brooke_ kmkale it's all yours :D
18:52 kmkale hi all
18:52 slef hi kmkale!
18:52 thd slef: The message would be fine if there is a consistent word or tag used.
18:52 kmkale Thanks to the commmunity form choosing India for Kohacon 11
18:52 kmkale I have prepared a Koha wiki page at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon2011
18:52 kmkale and a website at http://kohacon11.vpmthane.org/ocs ( this is running on Open Conference System from http://pkp.sfu.ca/ocs/)
18:52 cait paul_p: I suggest adding the bugs list as qa contact before closing those bugs - it's missing on a lot of them
18:53 magnuse kmkale++
18:53 kmkale At our end we are setting up sub-committees to handle conference arrangements, accomodation assistance, travelling guide, food guide, a day trip to Mumbai, getting sponsors, cultural program / conference dinner etc..
18:53 Brooke_ #link http://kohacon11.vpmthane.org/ocs/index.php/k/k11
18:54 paul_p kmkale, the kohacon11.vpmthane.org is very slow from here at this time. Is there a known reason for this slowness ?
18:54 * chris_n = Chris Nighswonger, 3.2.x Release Maintainer... and very late :P
18:54 gmcharlt chris_n: and now 3.4.x Release Maintainer ;)
18:54 paul_p chris_n, too late, you've been elected 3.4 Rmaint :D
18:55 kmkale paul_p: its hosted inside campus. which has nill traffic atm. so i see no reason
18:55 kmkale may be a dns or routes issue between the two end points?
18:55 gmcharlt kmkale: would you be willing to extend the deadline call for papers a bit, say, to the end of July?
18:55 chris_n :-)
18:55 paul_p so it can be my connexion. Or india <=> france that is slow somewhere
18:55 kmkale gmcharlt: sure. I want us to discuss and decide these sorta points
18:56 kmkale may be form a comitee here to discuss and decidce
18:56 gmcharlt kmkale: cool. another question - are you considering papers to be distinct from presentation proposals?
18:56 Brooke_ worse ideas have been proposed ;)
18:56 gmcharlt or the same thing
18:56 kmkale same thing basically
18:56 gmcharlt ok
18:56 kmkale what you see at the above site is what comes with the ocs basically
18:57 gmcharlt gotcha
18:57 kmkale needs work
18:57 kmkale I would like us to form a committee of volunteers here to work on call for papers, paper selection, presentation scheduling, keynote address etc.
18:57 paul_p it's a cool framework to help organizing a conf if it's what is provided by default !
18:58 kmkale thanks to SandeepBhavsar for finding and suggesting it
18:58 gmcharlt I would like to volunteer to be a (remote) member of that committee
18:58 paul_p SandeepBhavsar++
18:58 space_librarian_home I volunteer too
18:58 kmkale great
18:58 paul_p (wow long name to type ;-) )
18:58 kmkale Also let us discuss and decide conference volunteers meeting times, the general timeline for events leading up to the conference like call for papers duration, last date of papers, programme finalization etc
18:58 paul_p kmkale, I candidate to help on the hackfest organization
18:59 kmkale super
18:59 kmkale paul_p had mentioned that he would like a longer hackfest following the kohacon. We can discuss that and decide on the number of days. I am pretty sure we can manage to provide a venue like a conference room or lab or a classroom for the hackfest duration.
18:59 kmkale with wi-fi
19:00 Brooke_ wi-fi and beer? Catalyst gave you a high bar, ye know...
19:00 paul_p I'm probably with chris the only one who participated to the 3 previous hackfest, so have a little experience now ;-)
19:00 kmkale aye venue is a college
19:00 kmkale so no beer and no smoking
19:00 kmkale but we can all go out after hours ;)
19:01 thd kmkale: Is there a room big enough for all the people who voted for Thane?
19:01 paul_p (thinking of it, yes, chris & me are the only ones who made the 3 conferences in France/USA/NZ ;-) )
19:01 gmcharlt kmkale: that might make for better code, though, so it's all good ;)
19:01 slef please remember that each extra day increases the costs for attendees which increases the cost of Koha for libraries if it is priced fairly
19:01 kmkale thd: we have 4 seminar halls of 200 capacities each all interconnected with polycokm video conferencing hardware
19:02 kmkale so we can have parallel sessions if we get that much participation
19:02 paul_p kmkale, how many ppl from india to you think we may get ? (for the user conf I mean) ?
19:02 paul_p (really up to 800 ?)
19:02 mtj__ slef: the hackfest days are optional tho, so people dont need to attend those
19:02 kmkale paul_p: I have done 4 or 5 koha trainings at various colleges so far
19:03 magnuse slef: everyone doesn't have to stay for the whole hackfest...
19:03 kmkale at each one ( paid trainings at that ) we had to send back librarians
19:03 hdl or you can choose between hackfest and user conference
19:03 slef mtj__: optional, but seems to be expected.
19:03 kmkale so we will get excellent indian participation. people are eager to learn Koha
19:04 paul_p wow... well : NZ 4million ppl, 60ppl at the conference, India 1.2billion, so 300x, the goal is 18 000 attendees then :D
19:04 kmkale we need good speakers and topics.
19:04 thd kmkale: You would need a large theatre or sports arena to hold everyone who voted for Thane :)
19:04 magnuse paul_p++ ;-)
19:04 kmkale which will help librarians get started in Koha and help developers get into koha
19:04 hdl not only into koha as it stands... but maybe also as it could grow.
19:05 slef paul_p: more realistically, it should be 660 people (= first choice votes for Thane, less some who can't go for various reasons, plus some who put it as a lower choice)
19:05 space_librarian_home kmkale: so, do you have any themes for the kohacon you wish to highlight?
19:05 paul_p what about some workshops about koha + other OSS tools for libraries (greenstone, Drupal/Joomla,...)
19:05 slef Brooke_: kmkale: sorry, what do we need to do here?
19:06 hdl kete
19:06 hdl Dspace
19:06 paul_p oops... sorry to have forgottent kete ...
19:06 Brooke_ I think
19:06 kmkale What i have in mind is help librarians and developers get started and hooked on Koha
19:07 Brooke_ we empower kmkale redundantly to go form a committee and report back with their progress next month
19:07 paul_p Brooke_++
19:07 gmcharlt Brooke_: sounds good
19:07 space_librarian_home Brooke_++
19:07 chris_n +1
19:07 gmcharlt kmkale: I also suggest that you call monthly KohaCon meetings in #koha
19:07 slef kmkale: can you remove the eye test from http://kohacon11.vpmthane.org/ocs/index.php/k/k11/user/account please, or at least provide another way to register?
19:08 thd Brooke++
19:08 slef (OpenID would be good)
19:08 kmkale slef: will do
19:08 thd gmcharlt++
19:08 kmkale gmcharlt: will do
19:08 kmkale need more volunteers
19:08 slef Brooke_++
19:08 Brooke_ anything else, other than excitement about KohaCon 11?
19:08 gmcharlt KohaCon11++
19:08 slef KohaCon11++
19:08 Brooke_ #help KohaCon 11 committee members and volunteers: see Kmkale
19:08 kmkale are we all good with tyhe proposed dates?
19:08 slef kmkale: thanks
19:09 kmkale what about hackfest duration
19:09 Brooke_ one further note
19:09 Brooke_ I'm very happy that no one went for each other's jugular upon hearing the results.
19:09 paul_p kmkale, let's speak of it on a commetee : depend on what we want to do during this fest.
19:09 kmkale paul_p: ok
19:09 Brooke_ I hope in future as the conference rotates that everyone gets a crack at having it in their respective backyards. :)
19:09 thd kmkale: Does the date include both the conference and the developers' sessions?
19:10 mtj__ kmkale: i'm volunteering to help
19:10 paul_p As i've already said, I think it could be worthwhile to have 2 parts : "learning to hack" then "real/deep hacking"
19:10 kmkale are we all good with the proposed dates? we can throw open registrations and start working on accomodation and travel then
19:10 slef kmkale: I'm OK with those dates as far as I know just now.
19:10 paul_p kmkale, I think that unless there is a worldwide event at those dates, it's OK
19:10 schuster paul_p ++ learning to hack... I'm still trying to figure that out!
19:11 space_librarian_home dates look good.
19:11 paul_p mmm... thinking of it : when is the rugby world cup exactly ?
19:11 Brooke_ it's diwali then, yes?
19:11 thd kmkale: How do the dates relate to paul_p's proposal for two part hacking period?
19:11 space_librarian_home september
19:11 Brooke_ september Paul
19:11 kmkale Brooke_: Diwali ends 27th October
19:11 Brooke_ perfect
19:11 kmkale just past Diwali
19:11 kmkale but you could come a bit early to enjoy the festival of lights :)
19:11 slef 9 Sep - 23 Oct http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/pools/index.html
19:12 paul_p Brooke_, start on sept, ends on oct, 23
19:12 Brooke_ so rugger buggers have no excuse :P
19:12 paul_p so no overlap (that would be a real problem for chris & all kiwis ;-) )
19:12 space_librarian_home yes!
19:12 space_librarian_home :p
19:13 mtj__ i think i'm cuming early, for Diwali
19:13 Brooke_ okay moving on
19:13 thd paul_p: How do the closing date relate to your proposal for two part hacking period?
19:13 Brooke_ #topic Security Issues
19:13 pastebot0 "gmcharlt" at 68.101.78.67 pasted "security list proposal" (24 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/163
19:13 kmkale thd: conference 3 days 1 day Mumbai trip 3 day hackfest = 31st Oct to 6th Nov
19:13 gmcharlt #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Security_Mailing_List_Proposal
19:13 paul_p thd, I think the closing date could/should be later than 6th
19:13 schuster FYI international library conference tracker - http://www.conferencealerts.com/library.htm
19:13 kmkale but we can extend the hackfest if community decides to do so
19:14 paul_p what i've experienced : after 3days of conf everybody is tired & happy to have a restful week-end. Then hackfest
19:14 gmcharlt details are in the link I just posted, but to boil down the proposal, I propose creating a new limited purpose mailing list for the confidential reporting and discussion of security bugs that aren't reported to Bugzilla
19:14 kmkale mtj__: good for you. Its the biggest festival here
19:14 gmcharlt with goal of quick resolution to security issues
19:14 gmcharlt and transparency via a time-delayed public archive
19:14 thd paul_p++
19:14 slef I suggest we should recycle koha-manage to be that list.
19:15 slef We don't need two private lists.
19:15 gmcharlt slef: I disagree; I'd rather that we simply close koha-manage
19:15 paul_p slef, koha-manage is not used. Whe have some archives that should not be set public
19:15 thd A restful weekend is much better than tired people at a hackfest.
19:15 gmcharlt "koha-manage" as a name does not apply to the purpose I'm proposing koha-security for
19:15 paul_p I prefer to close it definetly
19:15 gmcharlt and it's not like it's expensive to create mailing lists
19:15 paul_p I agree with galen
19:15 mtj__ me too
19:16 slef I think labelling it koha-security will attract misdirected posts about more general security topics.
19:16 paul_p about delayed archives = is there a way to do that wit mailman ?
19:16 gmcharlt paul_p: I'm sure something can be hacked together; I'm willing to work out the details
19:16 slef it's not expensive to create mailing lists, but it is expensive to admin them well and to have the right people subscribed and participating well.
19:16 gmcharlt slef: we can simply redirect people to koha-devel in such instances
19:17 paul_p yes, and on mailman list header & koha-community.org, we can be very clear !
19:17 thd gmcharlt: are the bugs so dangerous that they need to have the security of not being published until they are patched?
19:17 paul_p thd, right
19:17 gmcharlt paul_p: to confirm, BibLibre would be willing to provide hosting for such a list, (along with the other lists you already host?)
19:17 slef Amend this proposal to close koha-manage too?
19:18 gmcharlt slef: +1 to closing koha-manage
19:18 paul_p thd, the 3.2.5 contains a fix that let anyone without any permission delete all authorities in your catalogue :\
19:18 paul_p (well the fix prevent this, not enable it ;-) )
19:18 paul_p +1 to closing koha-manage
19:18 mtj__ +1 to closing koha-manage
19:18 gmcharlt thd: there are some where as a matter of practice, having a *bit* of time to work out a fix would help
19:19 slef paul_p: the current mailman listinfo pages are mostly unhelpful, containing only the default bugzilla text.
19:19 gmcharlt thd: plus, as was the case with the specific incident, the person who found the security issue was not willing to simply post it to bugzilla
19:19 gmcharlt and I'd rather that we get security bug reports rather than not get them
19:19 paul_p slef, what could/should we add ? (correct english welcomed !)
19:19 schuster +1 close koha-manage - that list gave me fits way back to KohaCon09... forgiveness requested if you were on it. Chances are you were not the one causing the consternation!
19:20 mtj__ yeah, koha-manage does have some bad karma
19:20 cait +1 for gmcharlt's proposal
19:20 cait and +1 for closing koha-manage
19:20 schuster How often do we have "security" concerns of this magnitude?
19:20 paul_p about the security ML, if it's a invitation-only mailing list, then ppl can't write to it. So how will ppl be able to report a security issue ?
19:20 thd How do you decide who is safe enough to subscribe?
19:21 gmcharlt schuster: thus far, once or twice a year
19:21 gmcharlt I don't expect that koha-security will be high-volume
19:21 slef paul_p: permitted senders != subscribers
19:21 paul_p schuster, the more eyes seing the code, the more ppl finding such problems ;-)
19:21 paul_p slef, yep, but if anyone can send, we may get zillions of spams. But nevermind, we will deal with it.
19:22 schuster Obviously the person who reported this figured out who to talk with... I suspect then the RM and others were contacted to "find help" to resolve the problem?
19:22 paul_p schuster, just FYI, the guy who reported this one is ... a french catholic monk !
19:22 slef paul_p: so you'll need a moderator
19:22 gmcharlt slef: I am willing to moderate and despam
19:22 paul_p schuster, exactly
19:22 slef and one who is a bit faster than the current list moderators IIRC
19:22 Brooke_ okie dokie
19:23 Brooke_ so is it safe to presume we've resolved to shut manage and open security?
19:23 gmcharlt schuster: yes, basically because I told the reporter what to do
19:23 slef paul_p: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_List_Welcome is the suggestion for the koha list, but it doesn't seem to be on http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha yet.
19:23 gmcharlt schuster: I'd just like to have it a little more formalized
19:23 paul_p slef, for this one (katipo.co.nz), I can't do anything ;-)
19:23 slef I think the name should be something like koha-devel-private
19:24 schuster Dislikes closed lists - and it has been beat into him with FOSS to stay as transparent as possible...
19:24 slef but then I believe security should be full disclosure
19:24 slef which I think puts me in a minority here.
19:24 gmcharlt slef: "koha-devel-private" is broader scope than I intend
19:24 gmcharlt slef: this is not inconsistent with full disclosure
19:25 slef gmcharlt: how is it not?
19:25 cait I think private is not a good name
19:25 cait koha-securitiy-issues or something like that
19:25 slef cait: call a cat a cat.
19:25 thd cait++
19:25 paul_p slef, once we will be on debian with apt-get update koha, I think Full disc will be fair. But as ofnow, many libraries can't afford checking everyday & installing immediatly a security release i think
19:26 gmcharlt slef: anybody who cares to make a fully public report of a security issue and is irresponsible enough to also publicize an exploit is not prevented from doing so
19:26 * Brooke_ has always wondered what data Librarians stick in their systems to make security an issue in the first place...
19:26 thd slef: The list contents should be disclosed after the bug is fixed or found to be mistakenly reported..
19:26 slef paul_p: most libraries don't apt-get update AFAICT.
19:26 cait Brooke: data about persons
19:26 davi security coordinated disclosure++
19:26 gmcharlt Brooke_: long history on that one; there were various incidents back in the day when the FBI did go after library patron records
19:27 davi just koha-security would be OK IMHO
19:27 paul_p librarians, no. but libraries sysop I think yes. And if we are on Debian, we will be on security updates as well, no ? So anyone just checking this list will be aware.
19:27 thd gmcharlt: They still do.
19:27 * Brooke_ spots a dead horse
19:27 paul_p koha-security sounds OK to me as well
19:27 gmcharlt and as with the bug fixed in 3.2.5, security issues also mean things like holes that allow an external attacker to cause arbitrary damage to a database
19:28 slef paul_p: have you met any who do?
19:28 paul_p yes, some, at cnrs labs
19:28 slef thd: ok, but that should be less than a year, right?
19:28 Brooke_ so, let's set this up
19:28 Brooke_ and just do it
19:28 paul_p (but I agree, none in small public libraries. That's why we strongly suggest hosted Koha as the best solution ;-) )
19:28 slef sorry, six months
19:28 Brooke_ cause the meeting is v long by now
19:29 gmcharlt ok
19:29 mtj__ lets vote on the security list name, shall we?
19:29 Brooke_ #topic time and date of next meeitng
19:29 gmcharlt I will work with BibLibre to start the list
19:29 thd slef: Disclosure should be as soon as people have had a reasonable time to update their installations.
19:29 paul_p Brooke_++, /me hungry ;-)
19:29 gmcharlt we can evaulate it after a few months
19:29 jwagner Question -- who is allowed to be a member of that list?
19:29 slef I'm really unhappy about encouraging security bugs into the dark, but I seem to be in a minority of one.
19:29 slef jwagner: read the links gmcharlt posted, please.
19:30 jwagner I did, what did I miss?
19:30 slef "membership to be RMs, RMaints, QAMs, past, present, and future"
19:30 gmcharlt slef: I guess I must have imagined writing things like "preference to simply use Bugzilla
19:30 gmcharlt "
19:30 Brooke_ 6 April acceptable?
19:30 paul_p apr, 4-8th there will be the sprint in Marseille
19:30 slef gmcharlt: the list name sends mixed messages.
19:30 gmcharlt jwagner: and "other interested devs can join on request
19:30 gmcharlt "
19:30 davi slef, They will be on the dark, all koha dev will know, just that we will not publicity them
19:30 paul_p many ppl expected to work on 3.4 this week
19:30 Brooke_ 13 April
19:30 Brooke_ ?
19:30 davi s/They will/They will not/
19:31 paul_p (not meaning it's not a good week for this meeting)
19:31 jwagner OK, thanks -- missed that line.
19:31 gmcharlt paul_p: actually, I think that 4/6 would be good even with the sprint
19:31 gmcharlt you can add a report on the sprint to the agenda
19:31 thd slef: I think that we should encourage people to describe the type of problem publicly without enough public detail to reproduce the issue where it is too scary.
19:31 paul_p gmcharlt, yes, I think so, just reminding that ;-)
19:31 Brooke_ so back to 6 April?
19:31 gmcharlt 6 April
19:32 paul_p Brooke_, OK to me. And if daylight time for europe it will even be better ;-)
19:33 slef I've no preference between 6 and 13.
19:34 magnuse i'd say 6th - might be good to have a few days before the scheduled relaese on 22nd, perhaps?
19:34 space_librarian_home 6 April is good.
19:34 * kmkale yawns its past 1 am
19:34 slef kmkale puts us all to shame
19:34 thd slef: I presume that Debian has no secret security related lists but I assume that there are secret security lists for upstream projects while patches are being developed.
19:35 paul_p kmkale, sweet dreams !
19:35 kmkale so 6th is it? what time?
19:35 Brooke_ that's the question
19:35 Brooke_ who takes the bullet this go
19:35 paul_p 8 hours sooner than today ?
19:35 space_librarian_home ack!
19:35 space_librarian_home not for the kiwis!
19:35 mtj__ 12+ hours the start of this meeting
19:35 gmcharlt thd: an example http://httpd.apache.org/security_report.html
19:35 paul_p should we do8 hours sooner than the previous meeting each time ?
19:36 slef kmkale is in the worst time now IIRC
19:36 kmkale slef: not so bad
19:36 space_librarian_home It's going 8:45am here
19:36 paul_p I think no time is easy for everybody
19:36 davi thd, there can be at least some private emails exchange upstream
19:36 schuster paul_p ++
19:36 paul_p that's why I suggest to have a lasttime -8H everytime
19:37 schuster If it is important people will be there...
19:37 thd space_librarian_home: Your time will be very reasonable compared to the US.
19:37 kmkale 8hrs sooner i.e. 10.00 utc works for me
19:37 mtj__ paul_p++ yeah, i agree
19:37 Brooke_ I'd propse 8
19:37 sekjal rotating by 8 is good.... but i think we've been going + 8H... last one was 10:00 UTC
19:37 paul_p and next time that will be 2utc, and next time ...
19:37 space_librarian_home thd: point taken.
19:37 Brooke_ that way kiwis aren't also taking a hit
19:37 thd 10.00 UTC ++
19:37 magnuse 10.00 UTC ++
19:37 Brooke_ it's horribly early for yanks, but at least it's good for others
19:38 davi 10.00 UTC ++
19:38 gmcharlt Brooke_: we're used to it
19:38 gmcharlt +1 10:00 UTC+0
19:38 slef +1 10:00 UTC+0
19:38 slef (is 2 UTC good for anyone? We keep avoiding it)
19:38 paul_p Brooke_, , and next time, 2utc will be awful for us in europe
19:38 Brooke_ that is good for kiwis slef
19:39 Brooke_ so set
19:39 Brooke_ 10AM UTC 6 April
19:39 space_librarian_home and for west coast US
19:39 thd Brooke_: Are you proposing 2:00 UTC?
19:39 mtj__ so +8 hours is the new rule for meeting starts...
19:39 Brooke_ #action 10 AM UTC 6 April
19:39 paul_p suggestion for next agenda : everybody speak french and come to france timezone :D
19:39 Brooke_ #endmeeting
19:39 huginn Meeting ended Wed Mar 2 19:46:33 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
19:39 huginn Minutes: http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-03-02-17.56.html
19:39 huginn Minutes (text): http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-03-02-17.56.txt
19:39 huginn Log: http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-03-02-17.56.log.html
19:40 kmkale huginn++
19:40 kmkale good night all
19:40 space_librarian_home night!
19:40 paul_p ok, sweet dreams to ppl going to bed, good day to ppl starting work, good whateveryourtimezonemeans to others !
19:40 * paul_p heading for dinner !
19:40 thd mtj__: I think that +8 was passed over without discussion.
19:40 slef paul_p: c'est peut-être pas possible, l'appel était un peu trop tard
19:41 paul_p slef, ;-)
19:45 magnuse hiya jransom!
19:46 * Brooke_ waves to jransom
19:48 jransom hiya all
19:48 jransom only 1.5 hours late :(
19:48 jransom hope the meeting went well ... (off to track down ogs)
19:48 jransom aves back
19:49 magnuse jransom: original gangstas?
19:49 * Brooke_ guesses dogs.
19:49 magnuse that would make sense too, i guess ;-)
19:50 jransom logs
19:50 jransom both wrong - so minus 1 point
19:50 jransom :D
19:50 magnuse :-(
19:50 magnuse jransom: logs, minutes etc: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_Meeting,_2_March_2011
19:50 Brooke_ awww
19:51 jransom thanks Magnus
19:51 magnuse my pleasure!
19:51 jransom had just there by myself - thansk to our love koha-community website
19:51 * magnuse must try to be quicker next time
19:52 * slef is looking up restaurants in a city he lived 15 years ago for a friend of a relative... why?
19:53 magnuse slef: because you can?
19:53 * magnuse bids #koha a good time-of-day!
19:55 * Brooke_ waves to tajoli
19:55 Brooke_ buona sera
19:55 tajoli I have forget the meeting
19:56 tajoli I'm reading the logs
19:57 tcohen atz: would you check if the string input of the function is a valid value or assume is ok?
19:57 jcamins tcohen: I don't know what the context is, but check.
19:58 tcohen if ($action eq 'updated' or $action eq 'deleted') ... else raise error code
19:58 tcohen s/raise/return
20:08 sekjal paul_p++
20:16 slef davi: the problem with security issues only being told to a private list of developers is that the independent koha user won't even know they are vulnerable until they are exploited.
20:16 rangi morning
20:16 slef hi rangi
20:17 Brooke_ morning!
20:18 slef rangi: when you get time (ha!) can you put http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_List_Welcome (back?) onto http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha please?
20:19 rangi probably wont be for a few days, but yep
20:19 rangi that mail does go out though
20:19 rangi now
20:19 slef ah, I've misunderstood
20:19 slef sorry
20:19 slef We need just the bit from "This is the general discussion list" onwards on the page, I think?
20:21 rangi ah yep, can do that
20:21 slef thanks
20:21 gmcharlt slef: if security issues languish in koha-security, that would be a failure of the people active in, in which case a reporter would be perfectly entitled to more broadly disclose
20:22 gmcharlt and I'm not suggesting that we be coy about the nature of security bugfixes once they are released
20:23 Brooke_ I propose that we lend my cat out to developers who are slow about bugfixing. They aren't allowed to give her back until the backlog is resolved.
20:24 gmcharlt Brooke_: that sounds ... ineffective as a threat :)
20:24 gmcharlt (at least for devs who aren't alergic to cats, of course)
20:26 * jcamins thinks it would probably work better than the same threat with my cat.
20:26 jcamins Also known as "Mr. Stop Working And Adore MEEEEE."
20:27 Brooke_ clearly you underaestimate how annoying socks is.
20:32 tcohen rangi: i have an update for sysprefs to send
20:32 tcohen but cannot translate to every language
20:32 tcohen just did it for english
20:32 tcohen so the test fails
20:33 tcohen rangi: do I really need to add the syspref to all sysprefs.sql files?
20:33 cait yes
20:33 cait but not translated
20:33 cait tcohen: if you don't and I install with german sample files next times I will miss sysprefs... and I don't like that ;)
20:34 tcohen cait: ok, i'll just copy them...
20:34 tcohen I thoght that was a bit more automated process
20:34 cait translation is done through the pref files
20:34 tcohen oook
20:35 rangi tcohen: it will go away eventually but for now, has to be done, or a fresh install for those languages will miss out on the sysprefs
20:35 tcohen allright
20:35 rangi thanks
20:35 rangi heres a trick
20:35 tcohen and the way to get that for es_ES is to create a similar folder?
20:35 rangi perl xt/author/syspref.t
20:36 rangi will tell you all the places its missing
20:36 rangi yes
20:36 rangi and update that test if you do that :)
20:36 JesseM how long did it take you to get your first contract signed
20:38 rangi ww JesseM ?
20:38 JesseM wrong window so sry all
20:44 jcamins Does collection.abs ring any bells for anyone?
20:45 tcohen rangi: was the xt/syspref.t use encourage talked in the koha-devel list?
20:45 tcohen or just on irc -> wiki?
20:46 tcohen i mean, the update-all-language's for submission encourage
20:50 * Brooke_ waves to space_librarian
20:50 * space_librarian_ waves back
21:10 jenkins_koha Starting build 110 for job Koha_3.2.x (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #102 8 days 17 hr ago)
21:11 jenkins_koha Starting build 62 for job Koha_Docs_Master_Branch (previous build: FIXED)
21:12 rangi thats not the new jenkins, im still setting it up
21:14 tcohen bye #koha
21:25 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs_Master_Branch build #62: SUCCESS in 13 min: http://hudson.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_Master_Branch/62/
21:25 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: add new duplicate check from placing an order
21:31 cait time to sleep here - bye all :)
21:36 jenkins_koha Yippie, build fixed!
21:36 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.2.x build #110: FIXED in 25 min: http://hudson.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.2.x/110/
21:36 jenkins_koha * Marcel de Rooy: 2742 Encoding problem
21:36 jenkins_koha * MJ Ray: bug 1953: Reduce risk of possible tainted supplierid call to C4::Serials::GetLateIssues
21:36 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Follow-up fix for Bug 4885 - Only 1 ISBN shows in non-XSL detail view
21:36 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Fix for Bug 5812 - Tag Cloud - capitalized words come before lower-case words
21:36 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Follow-up fix for Bug 5733 - Empty cart in intranet when session is closed
21:36 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1953 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt, REOPENED, remove possible SQL injection attacks
21:36 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4885 minor, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED, Only 1 ISBN shows in non-XSL detail view
21:36 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5812 minor, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, RESOLVED FIXED, Tag Cloud - capitalized words come before lower-case words
21:36 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5733 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, RESOLVED FIXED, Empty cart in intranet when session is closed
22:25 MichaelNCAR Am I truly the only one here?
22:25 MichaelNCAR Is it siesta or something?
22:27 wizzyrea nah, it's just quiet today
22:29 MichaelNCAR So, a patron phoned me yesterday, reporting that a simple Koha catalog search was giving him errors.
22:30 MichaelNCAR We came to find that it seemed to be related to the fact that he was using Safari.
22:30 wizzyrea oo
22:30 jcamins MichaelNCAR: what version?
22:30 MichaelNCAR Though I see no such bugs on the wiki
22:30 MichaelNCAR Ah, I should inquire.
22:30 wizzyrea what kind of errors ^.^
22:31 MichaelNCAR Well, I don't recall exactly...rather than return results, it spit out some kind of error msg. I'll inquire about that as well.
22:32 wizzyrea safari is the only browser that patron tried?
22:32 wizzyrea maybe it was the search he was trying
22:32 wizzyrea sometimes a corrupt bib causes searches to error
22:32 gmcharlt MichaelNCAR: for what it's worth, I just did a search on your catalog using Safari 5.0.3
22:32 gmcharlt no apparent errors
22:33 wizzyrea which would seem to confirm that maybe it was *what* he was searching for, not *how*
22:33 MichaelNCAR While I had him on the phone, we tried a few different searches, all with the same error msg. Once he opened Firefox, all was well, of course.
22:33 wizzyrea aha, well that's a good sign
22:33 MichaelNCAR (thanks Galen, that's good to know)
22:34 MichaelNCAR Well, I've sent an email and will get back on here when Ihave more info
22:34 jcamins MichaelNCAR: what version of Koha?
22:34 MichaelNCAR 3.01.00.145
22:35 rangi ahh so you are not running a released version then?
22:38 gmcharlt it's a pre-3.2.0 git version
22:39 wizzyrea pretty close to 3.2.0 tho
22:39 * wizzyrea doesn't recall at what number db rev we rolled over
22:40 jcamins That's RC2.
22:49 jenkins_koha Yippie, build fixed!
22:49 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #9: FIXED in 30 mn: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/9/
22:52 jenkins_koha Starting build 10 for job Koha_master (previous build: FIXED)
23:08 bg @wunder 93109
23:08 huginn bg: The current temperature in K6LCM - Westside / Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 13.0�C (3:15 PM PST on March 02, 2011). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 86%. Dew Point: 11.0�C. Pressure: 30.13 in 1020.2 hPa (Rising).
23:12 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Merge remote branch 'kc/new/bug_5804' into kcmaster <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=a8c0897643a1d4ffd13e2a2ac61995ea61add124> / Follow-up fix for Bug 5804, acqui duplicate warning <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=f8c85a6bc8b6828b619f8e0469e80a175e833c8c>
23:25 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #10: SUCCESS in 32 mn: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/10/
23:56 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #11: SUCCESS in 30 mn: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/11/
23:56 jenkins_koha Chris Cormack: Follow-up fix for Bug 5804, acqui duplicate warning
23:56 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5804 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED, duplicate warning when ordering needs design work