Time Nick Message
22:41 hdl good night
22:40 hdl hi bg
22:11 huginn braedon: The current temperature in Auckland, New Zealand is 21.0�C (11:00 AM NZDT on February 19, 2011). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady).
22:11 braedon @wunder auckland
21:58 bg hi hdl
21:18 bg light rain - ha
21:17 huginn bg: The current temperature in K6LCM - Westside / Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 11.5�C (1:22 PM PST on February 18, 2011). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Pressure: 29.79 in 1008.7 hPa (Falling). Wind Advisory in effect from 9 am this morning to 8 PM PST this evening...
21:17 bg @wunder 93109
21:07 bg oleonard++ less lines of javascript has got to be a win somewhere
20:58 * druthb is gonna step away for a bit too. back later this evening.
20:57 jcamins Time to go cook and clean for our dinner guests. I'll be back for a bit, later.
20:53 sekjal happy weekend, #koha!
20:46 * oleonard is pleased that the switch to the jqueryUI date picker will result in a net reduction in lines of javascript in Koha
20:37 * jcamins 's cat is impressively chastened. Apparently sticky bug catcher things are more effective than scolding.
20:32 * jcamins rescues his cat from the sticky bug catcher thing
20:30 * druthb waves back to jcamins.
20:30 * jcamins waves to druthb
20:29 * druthb gets her pillow and blanket and KinderMat down off the shelf, and gets ready for a snooze.
20:27 oleonard Shhhhh, everyone is napping!
20:26 druthb Good afternoon, #koha.
18:10 jcamins sekjal: yeah, defaulttab is set in Perl.
18:09 sekjal (didn't know H::T could do that)
18:09 jcamins Right.
18:09 sekjal wouldn't be too hard to add. the opac-detail.pl page tests for defaulttab = 'something'
18:09 jcamins *actually
18:08 jcamins Apparently that syspref isn't actuall defined.
18:07 jcamins opacSerialDefaultTab.
18:07 jcamins Oh, no, it's only for Serials.
18:06 jcamins I thought there was, anyway.
18:05 jcamins Let me find it.
18:05 jcamins sekjal: there's a syspref.
18:05 sekjal how would one make Koha default to the Title Notes tab on opac-detail.pl, rather than Holdings?
18:00 cait hi Brooke
17:56 wizzyrea afk lunch
17:53 * Brooke_ waves to Cait :D
17:47 rhcl hi cait
17:44 cait hi #koha
17:41 jcamins Does Koha need the mail server to be listening on port 25?
17:12 wizzyrea bon... o bother
17:12 paul_p bye bye #koha ! good week end everybody !
17:02 jcamins oleonard: two running on zebraqueue simultaneously.
17:02 paul_p oleonard, wow... is your server doing a lot of other things ? it usually means a mySQL query has locked some tables/rows, and rebuild_zebra has waited too long for the lock to be removed
17:00 oleonard Anyone know why I would get this error when running rebuildzebra.pl? "DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Lock wait timeout exceeded;"
16:59 Brooke_ streusel, take your own risks laddy
16:55 paul_p 6PM and still sun light outside... spring coming... /me happy !
16:53 rhcl With all the ingredients I extracted and enumerated above I can't possibly imagine that anyone could taste the difference.
16:42 Brooke_ nor are they crumbly little pluckers
16:42 Brooke_ no nasty chemical taste to em
16:42 Brooke_ organic oats are worth it if you can find them since they could in theory stand on their own as an ingredient
16:41 Brooke_ back
16:34 * oleonard Tivos that whole series
16:33 wizzyrea and this concludes today's "things spud says" installment
16:32 wizzyrea no clue.
16:32 wizzyrea and "eggplanet ice cream" to be exact
16:32 wizzyrea he calls it an "eggplanet"
16:32 Brooke_ tsc
16:32 wizzyrea spud got some play food the other day that included an eggplant
16:32 Brooke_ you don't know?!
16:32 rhcl_away now why exactly are _organic_ oats worth it?
16:32 rhcl_away sugar, butter, sweetened milk, coconut, golden syrup, brown sugar...
16:32 wizzyrea you really can't go wrong with coconut, caramel, and rolled oats
16:29 wizzyrea oh my
16:29 Brooke_ http://lesttheybelost.blogspot.com/2010/12/caramel-anzac-slice.html
16:29 Brooke_ if I had some frangelico...
16:28 jcamins Brooke_: what?
16:28 * Brooke_ desperately hopes she doesn't unintentionally lure an unsuspecting developer to her house with the smell of this stuff...
16:03 Barc If I uncomment line 113 I get the borrower listing screen in admin but everyones cat shows "( )". There are no nulls in borrowers tables for categories. Any ideas?
16:02 Barc Can't use an undefined value as a HASH reference at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/members/member.pl line 113
16:02 Barc I am back with this error when searching for a borrower:#
16:02 wizzyrea hehe
16:01 Brooke_ see, I told you there was bot latency :P
16:01 wahanui :)
16:01 jcamins wahanui: botsnack sourdough bread
16:01 wizzyrea oh there he is
16:01 wizzyrea he's still not quite right
16:01 wahanui :)
16:01 wizzyrea wahanui: botsnack
16:01 wizzyrea botsnack wahanui
16:00 Brooke_ it's not their fault they were offered good posts.
16:00 atz booo
15:59 oleonard They're all being absorbed into Watson's collective.
15:58 wizzyrea oh there they all go
15:58 gmcharlt the VPS that bugs et al is running on appears to be entirely inaccesible, so I assume network or server issues at Linode
15:57 Brooke_ general strike!
15:56 wizzyrea iirc wow I am having troubles
15:56 wizzyrea he's on same server as bz irrc
15:56 wizzyrea there goes ibot too
15:56 Brooke_ maybe my latency is just high, oleonard.
15:56 huginn kf: downloading the Perl source
15:56 wizzyrea borked even
15:56 kf huginn botsnack
15:55 wizzyrea oh, bz bored
15:55 oleonard Hmmm... pretty slow for a bot
15:55 Brooke_ http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5768
15:55 oleonard Brooke_: Bug 5768
15:54 Brooke_ thanks gmcharlt! :)
15:54 gmcharlt Brooke_: botsnack
15:54 gmcharlt Brooke_: see how they respond when you feed them a botsnack
15:53 jcamins Brooke_: eating is a give-away. In order to save money, most bots don't eat. ;)
15:53 Brooke_ but how are you telling the people apart from bots?
15:52 oleonard Too many people have met nengard for her to be a bot
15:51 jcamins :)
15:51 jcamins Nicole is not, though.
15:51 jcamins Well, at least I'm not crazy.
15:51 wizzyrea bugzilla and hudson are on the same server I think
15:50 wizzyrea oh that's not a good sign
15:50 * wizzyrea admits not trying it yet with chrome
15:49 wizzyrea slips work pretty well in firefox
15:49 hdl tcohen: remember what ?
15:43 tcohen i was wondering if we'd have some checks there
15:43 jcamins Brooke_: I recall there being some issue with certain browsers not cooperating with the lousy print drivers that come with receipt printers.
15:41 * Brooke_ was an olde fashioned stamper though.
15:41 tcohen hdl: do u remember when writing AuthoritiesMarc::DelAuthority?
15:41 Brooke_ any given proper configuration I thought
15:41 jcamins Did Bugzilla just go down?
15:40 jcamins Slip printing. Which browser is it that it works best in?
15:32 sekjal this is why I prefer Pandora (that, and less buggy Flash)
15:32 sekjal done
15:32 Brooke_ aloha
15:31 oleonard Your preferences have been contaminated! The only choice is to nuke it from orbit!
15:31 wizzyrea it's science gone mad!
15:31 sekjal and now it's Ashley Simpson... something is wrong here
15:30 wizzyrea ^.^
15:30 * wizzyrea notes for the record that nerds from MIT are awesome
15:30 gmcharlt people still get rickrolled? that's so 2009! ;)
15:29 wizzyrea some nerd from MIT just rickrolled you
15:28 sekjal I just don't see the connection on Florence and the Machine radio...
15:28 wizzyrea i.e. science just rickrolled you
15:28 oleonard It's not a Rickrolling if science determined you should hear it ;)
15:28 wizzyrea teehee
15:27 * sekjal just got Rickrolled on Last.fm
15:24 sekjal Koha needs a new SIP checksum algorithm
15:24 sekjal kf: I'm learning that disabling error-detection in the SIPconfig.xml fixes the problem pretty well
15:23 kf sekjal: not sure if we changed something to make it work, but it does
15:23 kf sekjal: they have hebrew and I never got complains about it not working
15:23 kf we were a bit worried about the self check, but so far everything fine
15:22 kf hehe thx
15:22 sekjal kf: huzzah!
15:21 kf updated our biggst one today with icu and self check
15:20 * wizzyrea throws the confetti and commences the party
15:20 wizzyrea yay!
15:20 kf yay!
15:20 kf all our installations on 3.2.x now!
15:17 drulm OK, gotta go, thanks!
15:17 wizzyrea lots of people want working sms
15:16 drulm True. Good point. Well, perhaps I will do that once we upgrade to 3.4
15:16 wizzyrea i imagine if you asked for help here you'd probably get it
15:16 jcamins rangi prefers Gitorious.
15:16 jcamins Or Gitorious.
15:16 wizzyrea ^^
15:16 jcamins drulm: you can set up a GitHub account easily.
15:16 drulm Nope, not public. I have time to submit rarely. It's OK, it is the way of things.
15:15 wizzyrea never moot.
15:15 drulm It may all be moot soon enough.
15:15 wizzyrea is the code at least public?
15:15 wizzyrea (no better time than the present)
15:15 drulm wizzyrea: Oh heck no. I don't have time to breathe there are so many routine things to do here :)
15:14 drulm Also have an option for patrons to have their card barcode on their cell phone (in the opac).
15:14 wizzyrea ok, are you saying you don't have time to submit it?
15:14 drulm Oh we are running SMS messages on cell phones to alert patrons who opt in on an Opac form. Then they get hold, overdue, pre-overdue on their phones.
15:13 wizzyrea ? I"m not sure what you mean drulm?
15:12 drulm prob no time submit the SMS/TXT stuff either. A email gateway is needed for the SMS.
15:10 jcamins My query doesn't work with Codabar barcodes.
15:10 jcamins Argh!
15:10 wizzyrea owen: regarding the calendar: doo eet.
15:07 * jcamins sometimes misses doing all his DB interfacing in C.
15:05 wizzyrea right it can't stream partial results
15:05 jcamins And to make it worse, lots of times what it's doing is transferring the data. The client has to receive *all* the data before any is sent to Apache.
15:04 wizzyrea ok thanks, that's what I thought happened
15:04 hdl it keeps going
15:04 jcamins As far as I can tell, it just keeps grinding on.
15:04 jcamins wizzyrea: oh, yeah, that's fun.
15:04 hdl But only with dreams a man can be truly free it was alwas thus and always thus will be..
15:04 hdl show me a man unfilled with foolish dreams... and i will show you a happy man.... Tenisson
15:03 wizzyrea keeps going?
15:03 wizzyrea and apache times out, what happens to the mysql query? It completes and dumps the data?
15:03 wizzyrea if you try to run a huge report
15:03 wizzyrea ok here's something I've wondered about
15:02 hdl maybe.
15:02 hdl Could be done with enough ajax...
15:02 jcamins "Oh what a dream, a wonderful dream. And all that I need is eighty-eight bucks."
15:02 wizzyrea :)
15:01 hdl So do I ... node.js
15:01 * wizzyrea dreams big dreams
15:01 jcamins hdl: yes, I know.
15:01 wizzyrea if a report foregrounds for x seconds, to avoid timeout it should ask if you would like it to be backgrounded
15:01 hdl jcamins: as things are coded now... one can dream of it or recode the whole stuff.
15:00 wizzyrea or
15:00 wizzyrea oh oh
15:00 jcamins And also a button that said "please run this report in the foreground."
15:00 jcamins hdl: there would have to be a button you could click that said "please run this report in the background."
14:59 hdl (all the lengthy scripts in fact... such as reports, overdues and so on...)
14:59 hdl I would not put my word on background jobbing all the scripts... Since it is a real pain to debug onwards.
14:57 hdl that could be used.
14:57 hdl wizzyrea: there is a cronjob for reports.
14:57 sekjal that DB could then be optimized for reading (tons of indexes)
14:56 sekjal we've talked about allowing the library to specify a read-only mirror database for running reports against
14:56 wizzyrea :)
14:56 wizzyrea reports next!
14:56 wizzyrea ooo
14:56 sekjal it's just not applied to everything yet
14:56 sekjal there is a background processing module in Koha
14:56 wizzyrea (I could also be full of poo on that)
14:55 wizzyrea there's a mechanism for background processing on the offline circ upload
14:55 * jcamins , too
14:55 * wizzyrea often wishes for background report processing
14:54 jcamins Drat.
14:54 wizzyrea apache sometimes times out reports
14:54 jcamins Does Koha time out reports?
14:54 jwagner oleonard, we haven't put that fix out yet -- still testing it.
14:53 jwagner hi hdl
14:53 oleonard jwagner: I'm not aware of any updates to Harley which have been made public
14:53 nengard :)
14:53 paul_p nengard, thx for the mail ;-)
14:53 drulm We are running SMS/TXT notifications and smart-phone barcodes for patron IDs
14:53 hdl and all
14:53 hdl hi jwagner
14:52 jwagner I think we've done a couple of tweaks that haven't been submitted yet.
14:52 jwagner Bestsellers' Club? yes, the main thing is a Harley branch
14:52 drulm If I have time I may end up incorporating it (if someone does not beat me to it) - since staff wants it. Yet another project on the pile.
14:51 drulm oleonard: Ah got it.
14:51 oleonard jwagner: drulm was asking about bug 4245
14:51 drulm Also rooting for partial fine payment and or no fines until item is returned.
14:51 * jwagner pops in from meet ing -- did I get flagged on something?
14:50 oleonard There is no patch for 3.4, just Harley.
14:50 drulm So there is a patch for 3.4, not just Harley, that would be nice.
14:50 drulm Wacky. Well, it has got to be based on biblionumber and itemnumber so probably pretty easy to jam in there
14:50 oleonard nengard beat me to it
14:49 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4245 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, jwagner, NEW, Bestseller's Club and email notifications
14:49 nengard drulm Bug 4245
14:49 oleonard drulm: In PTFS's Harley release I suppose?
14:49 drulm Thanks got it. Is the code out there for the book club somewhere?
14:48 nengard oh yeah - that's worse
14:47 jcamins nengard: no, just a migraine. :(
14:47 nengard jcamins did druthb keep you up late too?
14:46 nengard yikes!!
14:46 kf size
14:46 kf that defines the sitze
14:46 kf if you call it that, a style attribute
14:46 kf the simple search field has an inline style :(
14:46 oleonard nengard: http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/query.cgi?format=advanced
14:46 jcamins I'm not logged in.
14:46 jcamins Wait, never mind.
14:46 nengard new advanced search?
14:46 jcamins Help!
14:46 jcamins The wiki page is broken again.
14:46 kf uh
14:45 oleonard Gotta learn the new advanced search now.
14:45 oleonard Oh, Bugzilla upgrade.
14:45 jcamins I am placing it immediately after my "validate Codabar barcodes" report.
14:45 nengard the wierd ones are very useful
14:45 nengard :)
14:45 jcamins Has anyone noticed that I write the weirdest reports?
14:44 nengard jcamins i was gonna say that
14:43 oleonard drulm: No one is working on integrating the book club. Perhaps PTFS could hire a Koha developer to help get it working in Koha.
14:43 jcamins Ooh, I should put it on the Wiki.
14:43 wizzyrea you poor thing
14:43 wizzyrea oh lawd
14:43 jcamins ^^ in case anyone was curious.
14:43 pastebot0 "jcamins" at 208.120.0.116 pasted "How to find contiguous unused barcodes" (6 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/150
14:43 wizzyrea (we wanted something like it, though. It'd be a nice feature to have)
14:42 wizzyrea *nod*
14:42 oleonard Is the book club thing a PTFS feature?
14:42 oleonard drulm: We're working on getting Biblibre's batch biblio edit feature polished
14:41 wizzyrea we never got the book club thing to work
14:41 wizzyrea YAY
14:41 sekjal partial payments has been green-lighted
14:40 nengard :)
14:40 nengard ha! that's a lot of different things all at once
14:40 drulm Bulk bib editing happening now? Cool if so. Be cool if the the book club thing were added in and thirdly the fines partial payment stuff. :)
14:40 kf not one I know of
14:39 jcamins Is there any way to tell Koha "this is not a fuzzy search term"?
14:38 nengard that sounds painful
14:37 jcamins Oof. Finding unused ranges of barcodes is way less trivial than I expected.
14:35 nengard I don't mind where the batch edit is located - it is a tool - but the permissions should be in the logical spots
14:35 oleonard Crowded.
14:35 kf crowded?
14:35 kf perhaps we should think about that too - tools gets crowdy
14:35 kf hm. I think we only have kind of a start page for circ and tools?
14:35 oleonard kf: I think so. I think that grouping reflects where to find the tool in Koha, but really the permissions should reflect roles
14:34 nengard okey dokey
14:34 paul_p nengard, seen you msg. Could you drop me a mail pls, i'll forget...
14:34 kf i think they are under tools, because we have no cataloging start page?
14:34 kf oleonard: perhaps even the batch item delete/modify should moved to cataloging?
14:32 oleonard Theoretically you'd want "batchedit" to be a sub-permission of "edit_catalogue" (not "editcatalog," the parent category)
14:32 oleonard How deep can the permissions hierarchy go? Right now we only have two levels
14:29 kf so it should be grouped into the cataloging rights?
14:25 sekjal I'd agree that if you can edit in batch, you should be able to edit individually
14:16 oleonard It seems strange that someone could have batch edit permission and not catalog edit permission
14:08 oleonard But that doesn't explain why it didn't work for me even though that permission was there
14:08 oleonard That must be why I have it... messy database.
14:08 oleonard Yes, I see it in the original Biblibre branch
14:06 nengard so there is a permission in another patch?
14:06 oleonard He probably didn't cherry-pick that part (if cherry pick is the right word here)
14:05 oleonard nengard: I'll bet the batchedit permission didn't make it into the patch because of the way rangi is putting together the patches
14:01 oleonard No reason not to include a separate permission and let the supervisor decide.
14:01 oleonard A batch edit is potentially much more destructive
14:01 * oleonard does
14:00 nengard i'd argue that if you're allowed to edit the catalog then you should be able to do batch edits ... but others might disagree
13:59 nengard but right now we don't have one
13:59 nengard i think we do
13:58 kf only a thought: but do we need different permissions for items_batchedit and biblio_batchedit?
13:58 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5725 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED, Batch modifications for Biblios
13:58 nengard paul_p can you take a look at questions on bug 5725
13:58 nengard :)
13:57 oleonard I ought to trash this database and start over... I'm not good about keeping it "clean" when testing
13:56 nengard but not batchedit
13:56 nengard under tools i have items_batchmod
13:56 oleonard At first I thought it would be under cataloging, but it's under tools
13:55 nengard under what?
13:55 nengard oh
13:55 oleonard ...and it's checked in my permissions setup
13:55 nengard i don't have that either - but the patch doesn't say it adds a new permission
13:55 oleonard Hmmm, no I see the batchedit permission in my database
13:53 nengard i'll go ahead and try with only the edit permissions
13:52 nengard i'm logged in a superlibrarian
13:52 oleonard nengard: I wonder if my installation didn't get the proper update in order to have a new "batchedit" permission?
13:51 nengard i added in an 050 subfield a
13:49 oleonard nengard: What did you try to modify?
13:48 nengard i have added my notes
13:48 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5725 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED, Batch modifications for Biblios
13:48 nengard can you update bug 5725 with that info?
13:48 nengard oh!
13:46 oleonard Looks like you have to be a superlibrarian
13:45 nengard hmmm
13:45 oleonard Yes
13:45 nengard did you apply both patches?
13:44 nengard mine is a new install if that means anything
13:44 nengard strange
13:44 oleonard Not working for me: "Can't use string ("batchedit") as a HASH ref while "strict refs" in use at C4/Auth.pm line 1559."
13:44 nengard I think it needs a bit of the oleonard touch on design, but it works
13:44 nengard it works
13:44 nengard holy cow that is so cool!
13:43 nengard gonna try again
13:43 nengard record
13:43 nengard but i'm not seeing my changes on the marc recotd
13:43 nengard i did get a table with records in it
13:42 nengard you have to select titles first
13:42 oleonard I clicked 'Batch Edit' and got a page with an empty table
13:42 oleonard nengard: Is it working for you?
13:41 kf still looks kinda wrong...
13:41 kf comfortable
13:41 kf uh
13:41 kf comfortabel?
13:41 kf yeah, and cart would be more handy
13:41 * druthb heads out to catch her bus back to DC.
13:41 nengard they should both work the same way
13:41 nengard and merge works on lists - not the cart
13:40 nengard kf you're right!!!
13:40 kf I think that's how the merge works
13:40 kf nengard: cart perhaps?
13:38 nengard i applied both batches and looked in the acq baskets but i don't think that's right
13:38 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5725 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Batch modifications for Biblios
13:38 nengard how do i find the new features introduced in the patch for bug 5725 - i'm trying to test and sign off, but i can't find where to look for the new features
13:37 nengard okay I need some help
13:34 oleonard Requiring email confirmation for wiki accounts doesn't seem to have done anything to stop the spam
13:19 druthb hi, paul_p.
13:10 jwagner Hi paul_p
13:10 nengard good afternoon paul_p
13:09 paul_p good morning americans
13:09 nengard druthb broke my koha and built it back up to be even awesomer!!!
13:09 * jwagner has always found it a good practice to blame druthb for everything :-)
13:09 druthb if I'm all fuzzy today you can blame nengard :)
13:08 NateC heh will do ;)
13:08 NateC Hiya nengard
13:08 nengard if I'm all fuzzy today you can blame druthb :)
13:08 nengard howdy NateC
13:08 NateC morning druthb
13:08 druthb Good morning, NateC
13:07 NateC and #koha!
13:07 NateC morning drulm!
12:51 druthb they working all right, nengard?
12:50 nengard druthb I have finished my two installs!!
12:25 jcamins_away Nifty.
12:25 jcamins_away Oh, I see.
12:24 nengard yes
12:24 nengard so cool!! it's also searching for dups as i type up my report
12:24 jcamins_away bugs.koha-community.org, right?
12:24 jcamins_away Uhhh... yes there is?
12:24 nengard it's all slick looking
12:24 nengard there isn't a bug there on the 'new' button
12:24 jcamins_away nengard: what?
12:23 nengard holy cow - bugzilla changed!
12:13 thd Imagine a legion of people setting up Koha even if merely for a class. A few of them may well take it further than the class.
12:12 thd ... and on this channel
12:11 thd jcamins_away: That would be great. There are certainly many people from there asking questions on the mailing list.
12:09 * jcamins_away doesn't see any objection to that, if whole CS & LIS classes are going to show up to learn about Koha.
12:02 * thd wonders if whole computer science and library science classes were encouraged to vote for Thane but that still seems fine if people are taking a real interest.
12:01 thd It might matter to some to know quantitatively that those who considered more than one choice were still overwhelmingly for Thane.
11:59 nengard np
11:59 thd Thanks nengard
11:58 nengard 31 nepal only - 6 Kolkata only - 16 UK only - the rest of the 635 did Thane only
11:55 nengard wait ... maybe it is
11:55 thd :)
11:55 nengard hmmmm .. that's not easy ... not in my current state
11:55 nengard oh!
11:54 thd sorry for asking the question improperly previously.
11:54 thd nengard: Do you have an easy list of votes of those who only listed one preference?
11:54 nengard [06:53] <nengard> 30 didn't answer any (which is silly) - and 635 only made one choice
11:53 nengard thd i answered you ....
11:53 * thd tries again
11:53 thd nengard: Do you have an easy breakdown of those who voted only once?
11:52 kf hm same here
11:50 thd I think that I may have been counted as not answering any a few times when looking at the ballot despite never pressing submit.
11:48 nengard 30 didn't answer any (which is silly) - and 635 only made one choice
11:48 thd I took two weeks to decide which I preferred and could not really decide well.
11:47 kf ;)
11:47 kf I did 2
11:46 nengard I only did 1 - so that's 1 :)
11:46 thd I know that the number is overwhelming in any case.
11:46 nengard yes, I think so - hang on
11:46 thd nengard: Do you have an easily obtained statistic for everyone who ranked more than one option?
11:44 nengard wow! and :(
11:44 thd I have been up all night
11:44 nengard druthb kept me up until 1am so I'm a bit dopey
11:44 thd :)
11:44 nengard oh - wait i typed that right
11:44 nengard or
11:44 nengard hiya thd
11:43 thd good morning nengard
11:41 huginn Log: http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-02-18-10.08.log.html
11:41 huginn Minutes (text): http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-02-18-10.08.txt
11:41 huginn Minutes: http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-02-18-10.08.html
11:41 huginn Meeting ended Fri Feb 18 11:46:47 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
11:41 hdl #endmeeting
11:39 hdl If I can help in any way, if you have any question or if you think of any exemple... please do.
11:39 hdl If anyone has questions about Plack and how to test...
11:38 hdl and zebra will take some more memory
11:38 hdl send 1000 queries to a single connection and it will slow down...
11:37 hdl yes...
11:37 thd What causes the slowness for an open connection?
11:37 hdl ok. if noone has anything else to say... Let's end the meeting.
11:36 hdl And .... It ends up being very slow.
11:36 hdl It is owed to the z3950 protocol which is connected... And since koha initiate one connection and use that... In a data persistent model... you use always the same.
11:35 hdl I think it would not help in fact.
11:35 thd hdl: I see reports on the koha mailing list of people not running Zebra as a daemon. Does that help with the issue or merely create other performance problems?
11:34 hdl But this state of fact is known with zebra and yaz.
11:34 hdl But neglected to report...
11:34 hdl It is something we discovered with some of our tools...
11:33 hdl not yet in fact.
11:33 hdl no.
11:29 thd hdl: Is there a bug and patch for the Zebra connection issue?
11:29 ColinC thd: the life of of the cached data differs
11:28 hdl Who ?
11:28 hdl Are you interested in any of the 3 problems I listed ?
11:28 hdl Are you interested in testing ?
11:28 hdl Are you interested in playing with plack ?
11:28 thd ColinC: What did you mean in referring to item and patron record for issuing transactions as different from circ rules?
11:27 hdl Is there anything else to say now ?
11:26 ColinC Its not
11:26 thd ColinC: Why is having multiple data access rules especially problematic?
11:24 ColinC and what hdl said
11:24 ColinC The approach to e.g. the item and patron record in an issue transaction is different to the circ rules governing that transaction is a crude example
11:23 hdl where it can be used.
11:23 hdl But there are many places : branches, categories, issuingrules, systempreferences, languages, message_preferences...
11:22 hdl thd: i think so
11:22 thd ColinC: Are you suggesting that the performance improvement would be minimal for data which is used infrequently or changes often and therefore needs careful update management?
11:21 ColinC Yes
11:21 hdl you mean to use caching only where it was really needed ?
11:18 ColinC I've used memcached in a high-throughput environment it gave many improvements but it was important to concentrate cacheing on what benefitted from it
11:18 hdl Are you thinking of evergreen ?
11:17 ColinC we have operations that intertwine updates and reads to persistent/non-persistent data
11:16 hdl ColinC: But is there any concrete exemple of a nice application design you have in mind ?
11:14 thd ColinC: What improper presumptions have been taken in consequence of that legacy design?
11:09 ColinC s/trated/treated/
11:08 ColinC Because the model has been cgi script based nothing has been trated as possibly living longer than the scripts runtime
11:08 hdl or does anyone has some precise idea ?
11:06 hdl Can you provide an exemple of how you see things ?
11:05 ColinC I think there is quite a bit of refactoring to be done to some code to take advantage of any caching structure
11:04 hdl instance : systempreferences donot change often... but biblio change far more often
11:02 hdl But it would require to have some more fine grain for some other things.
11:01 hdl The problem is that the edition for Memcached would have to be quite localized and centralized... in order to be easily generalised.
10:59 hdl both in fact...
10:58 ColinC hdl or both
10:58 thd hdl: Are the deficiencies to which you are referring deficiencies of memcached or deficiencies of the current implementation work for Koha?
10:57 ColinC For future ref I think the Cache::Memcached interface has more fine grained api than Memoize::Memcached
10:56 hdl You have to wait for 5 or whatever the time in the file for it to be updated correctly...
10:55 hdl (at least with the system as it is now)
10:54 hdl you cache preferences, when you edit a preference. the cache is not updated
10:54 thd hdl: What does it mean to "edit the thing" or "edit the structure"?
10:53 hdl But Memcached is not really adding much performance... unless you use for complex structures.
10:52 hdl flush... Or to edit the structure.
10:52 hdl you have to flush the cache regularly. Or to slush the cache on edits.
10:51 hdl And when you edit the thing, the old stuff sticks in Memchaced.
10:49 hdl Memcached is not generalized in all the modules.
10:47 ColinC I'm not sure what point you were trying to make about Memcached
10:46 hdl Do you think I am wrong ?
10:46 hdl ColinC: what are you not following.
10:44 hdl http://git.biblibre.com/?p=koha;a=blob;f=C4/Context.pm;h=eb8b7ada8dd1f55c8af2e32041d747b6d41de5c5;hb=bug/BLO/MT5496
10:43 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York [lost attention to the time but has read back.]
10:42 hdl http://git.biblibre.com/?p=koha;a=blob;f=C4/Languages.pm;h=c00695b607b0f4d1ac8a5f8f4a397b03a97a849d;hb=bug/BLO/MT5496
10:42 hdl I have done some work for C4::Languages (which still has some bug... But it was a first start... and provided a good improvements.) and C4::Context
10:40 ColinC not sure I followed that last part
10:36 hdl This would be much more efficient.
10:36 hdl But this would also require to add some local variables to store the information. and not make any calls.
10:34 hdl And I think it is quite a good start.
10:34 hdl And about the lack of Caching, chris proposed the usage of Memcached
10:33 hdl If you could test and provide some feedback
10:33 hdl But about zebra search, i think that the solution we proposed could be a nice option.
10:32 hdl i cannot find the link right now.
10:31 hdl on the lists.
10:30 hdl I gave a list of some of the circular references.
10:29 hdl About Circular references : I think that if we could at least get the functions which adds some additional dependencies...
10:29 ColinC a hitlist of obstacles
10:27 hdl But I would like to know if we can setup a plan on order to solve those problems and work out solutions
10:26 hdl Some from ColinC quite helpful...
10:25 hdl But had very little feedback
10:25 hdl About Circular refereences in Code, I sent some mails on list.
10:23 hdl Since there is a tcp timeout
10:22 hdl With tcp connection, that problem is not so hard.
10:21 hdl But the fact is that when you are running with sockets, it leaves zombies on the system... So one has to kill them
10:21 hdl This is why I sent a branch datapersistence... which destroy the connection to zebra when things are over.
10:20 hdl yes.
10:20 fredericd You mean that zebra search slow down if connection isn't reset regularly?
10:20 hdl c) lack of caching in the code.
10:19 hdl b) zebra search
10:19 hdl a) Circular references in code.
10:19 hdl Because of some problems :
10:19 hdl The stuff is working quite well... ... But not ready for production at the moment.
10:19 fredericd installation in progress...
10:18 hdl starman I think
10:18 hdl plackup, starlet, and an other one.
10:18 hdl Task::Plack comes with 3 servers you can test
10:17 hdl (you can install cpan minus for that)
10:17 hdl cpanm Task::Plack
10:17 hdl you need to install Plack
10:17 hdl it needs some tweaking of the apache configuration to have static files served directly and a reverse proxy on 5000
10:16 fredericd If I checkout wip_pack branch from git.koha-communty.org, what do I need to do to get it working?
10:15 hdl But you can use the file.
10:15 hdl fredericd: well I had... But I donot have them right there.
10:14 hdl you can launch using : KOHA_CONF=/home/users/koha/sites/univ_lyon3/etc/koha-conf.xml PERL5LIB=/home/koha/src plackup -S Starlet --workers 32 --port 5000 /local/home/users/koha/src/prod.psgi
10:13 fredericd do you have figures?
10:12 hdl The results are quite good in terms of performance.
10:11 hdl We have been testing thet on some servers with nginx
10:11 hdl data_persistence branch which contains some patches in order to manipulate C4::Context to remove the connections to zebra when they are not used any longer. at least in SimpleSearch
10:10 hdl There is also the http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=wip/koha-biblibre.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/wip/data_persistence
10:10 hdl http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=wip/koha-biblibre.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/wip/Plack
10:09 hdl We have pushed a branch on koha-community.org where you can have psgi files to launch a plack server
10:08 hdl #link http://plackperl.org/
10:08 hdl http://plackperl.org/
10:08 hdl We have been playing with Plack in order to test that and achieve data performance.
10:07 hdl Ok.
10:07 hdl So 4 ...
10:06 fredericd salut Henri-Damien
10:06 * fredericd Frédéric Demians, Tamil
10:06 ColinC Colin Campbell, PTFS-Europe
10:06 * kf Katrin Fischer, BSZ - following the discussion
10:05 * hdl Henri-Damien LAURENT BibLibre
10:05 hdl Is there any one for the record ?
10:04 hdl Let's start the meeting.
10:03 hdl Hi
10:03 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
10:03 huginn Meeting started Fri Feb 18 10:08:46 2011 UTC. The chair is hdl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
10:03 hdl #startmeeting data persistence on koha
10:02 ColinC Yes ....
10:00 hdl Are you there for the meeting around data persistence ?
09:59 ColinC hi there
09:58 hdl hi ColinC
09:46 braedon ...indeed
09:44 kf hm.
09:44 kf well,?
09:44 kf well?
09:44 wahanui kf, I didn't have anything matching well
09:44 kf wahanui: forget well
09:34 wahanui well, there is no spoon.
09:34 braedon well, there...
09:34 braedon i wonder when i was last here
09:33 braedon ahh
09:30 kf braedon: the other server was down and we moved, but it is permanent now
09:08 braedon when did this happen?
09:08 braedon wow, new server
08:35 hdl kf: it may be a very simple and light discussion
08:32 kf will try to follow the discussion, but can't probably not add to it
08:31 kf ah
08:25 hdl at 11AM
08:24 kf oh, when is the meeting? I missed to put in on my calendar
08:14 hdl rangi: anything special about your Plack usage for circulation... It has been up and running for quite a long time now... So maybe you have some interesting statements.
08:12 hdl rangi: will you be there this for the persistence meeting ? Or will I be alone with slef ?
08:10 hdl hi rangi
08:10 hdl hi all
08:02 rangi but it involved no code change to koha to do it
08:01 rangi to do things like sync with your phones calendar etc
08:01 rangi the former
08:01 snail is kiritakikoha an app that runs on the smartphone, or a HTML web interface customised for smartphone based browsers?
07:57 fredericd hi kf
07:57 kf hi fredericd
07:57 fredericd (just reading the code, I don't have Android smartphone)
07:56 fredericd I'm trying to figure out how the search work
07:56 fredericd look nice!
07:56 rangi http://code.google.com/p/kiritakikoha/
07:53 fredericd kiritakikoha
07:48 kf hi rangi
07:47 rangi hi kf
07:31 kf good morning #koha
06:58 francharb hello all
06:46 cait http://www.tib-hannover.de/en/the-tib/opendata/
02:38 huginn brendan___: The current temperature in K6LCM - Westside / Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 12.2�C (6:43 PM PST on February 17, 2011). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 69%. Dew Point: 7.0�C. Pressure: 29.99 in 1015.5 hPa (Steady).
02:38 brendan___ @wunder 93109
01:16 rangi :)
01:15 eythian friday new wave here, but that doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
01:15 rangi friday flamenco
01:15 rangi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-qgum7hFXk
01:12 rangi midnight us time, thats about 6pm here :)
01:10 eythian yeah, I find when I'm asleep to also be the best part of the day.
01:09 rangi its the best part of the day
01:08 jcamins_away I have the good sense to be asleep at that time.
01:08 jcamins_away Never noticed that.
01:08 jcamins_away Ah.
01:08 druthb she logs on from home before work, about midnight our time, some days.
01:07 jcamins_away druthb: kf will probably be on before cait. It's only Thursday.
01:07 sekjal druthb++
01:07 huginn druthb: The operation succeeded.
01:07 druthb @later tell cait JULY 19!
00:58 thd rangi: Yes, I will include that suggestion in my next message to him.
00:57 rangi if he wants a koha to play with, im sure we can sort one out for him
00:57 mtj pssst: linode ;)
00:57 rangi ahhh
00:56 thd rangi: He is using a very cheap web host which does not allow enough control to install Koha.
00:56 thd rangi: I spoke to him about git being accessible on many platforms.
00:55 rangi cool
00:55 thd rangi: There are a few libraries using Chopac and he makes some occasional improvements for them.
00:55 nengard hi all
00:55 rangi we like those (and women too of course)
00:54 rangi hes a man with ideas
00:54 rangi ahhh, he should join us ;)
00:54 thd rangi: Charles Ledvina told me that he stopped doing substantive work on his Chopac ILS because he could not keep up with the rate of development of Koha and other library systems.
00:51 rangi hello pa
00:45 thd s/recognise/appreciate/
00:45 thd People already know the meaning of 'viral'.
00:44 thd 'Copyleft' is more difficult to recognise instantly because it takes a while to understand the meaning.
00:44 mtj interesting topic guys
00:44 * mtj waves
00:43 rangi hence my ++ above :)
00:43 rangi yeah
00:43 thd 'viral' is pejorative and false.
00:42 thd People imagine the license escaping from a bottle and devouring them :)
00:42 thd rangi: That 'viral' word is scary to many people.
00:41 rangi ie, let your code be borged into osx licenses :)
00:41 rangi Personally, I much prefer "non-viral" type open source licenses like Apache or MIT for this reason.
00:40 rangi MIT
00:40 thd ?
00:40 thd rangi: What license are people advocating on code4lib instead of GPL.
00:39 rangi im glad he talked to you, not the people on the code4lib fudding about gpl ;)
00:39 thd rangi: He understood somewhat how licenses were applied but was a little hesitant without knowing how simple it is to apply a license to code.
00:39 rangi ahhh, that makes more sense :)
00:37 thd ... when you asked him.
00:37 thd rangi: He had never thought about licenses previously, therefore, he did not know how to answer.
00:36 rangi true :)
00:36 thd rangi: If the license is compatible then modifications have the license of the modification.
00:35 rangi in a pinch .. yes
00:35 thd rangi: Any compatible license will do.
00:35 rangi well 1, not so much, but all the rest :)
00:35 rangi i love all the gpls
00:34 thd rangi: I am recommending that he use GPL 2+ for now so that we can add his code sooner but I am writing to inform him about the range of GPL compatible licenses. an ex
00:32 rangi so_called_viral_licenses_that_freedom_haters_hate++
00:32 thd charles++
00:32 rangi charles++
00:31 rangi thd++