Time  Nick       Message
00:02 chris_n    so which images are athorized value images?
00:03 chris_n    authorized even
00:03 rangi      hmmm
00:03 rangi      pass
00:03 * chris_n  tested the patches for 5687
00:03 chris_n    they apply
00:04 rangi      but not sure how to test them?
00:04 chris_n    not exactly
00:04 rhcl       is wahanui1 a bot?
00:04 rangi      maybe update the bug and ask marcel to explain more
00:04 chris_n    apparently these images were there before
00:04 rangi      rhcl: yep
00:04 chris_n    now they just are conditional based on the new syspref
00:04 rangi      ah right
00:04 chris_n    but nothing changes with my test data
00:05 chris_n    so I probably don't have these images setup
00:05 * chris_n  goes to dig through the code a bit
00:27 chris_n    well the bug is updated at any rate
00:28 hudsonbot  Starting build 341 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
00:32 huginn     New commit(s) kohagit: Fix for Bug 5115, Tags JavaScript includes many untranslatable strings <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=dec6be9148ec28b240015762cdeb7019fbfadeb6> / Merge branch 'new/bug_5690' into kcmaster <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=ea93d3b56e4654530871e3c454251d16b9d5ce0e> / Bug 5690 <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=60dd25b5c230249581a973
00:42 huginn     New commit(s) kohagit: Fix for Bug 5532 - sysprefs editor should show names of saved prefs <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=7acfb3a17f9ab592b385b032c93c96d6894ff821> / Fix for Bug 5689 - System preference notifications are not translatable <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=aac253a5e0192b14dfa23e34c76629020c392bca>
00:52 hudsonbot  Project Koha_Master build #341: SUCCESS in 24 min: http://hudson.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master/341/
00:52 hudsonbot  * Chris Cormack: Updating history docs
00:52 hudsonbot  * Henri-Damien LAURENT: Bug 5690
00:52 hudsonbot  * Owen Leonard: Fix for Bug 5115, Tags JavaScript includes many untranslatable strings
00:53 hudsonbot  Starting build 342 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
01:15 chris_n    @later tell atz http://librarypolice.com/wiki.koha.org/encodingscratchpad.html
01:15 huginn     chris_n: The operation succeeded.
01:18 chris_n    @later tell jwagner http://librarypolice.com/wiki.koha.org/en:development:hard_coded.html
01:18 huginn     chris_n: The operation succeeded.
01:18 chris_n    @later tell jwagner but I don't think that helps much as what they mean apparently never got filled in
01:18 huginn     chris_n: The operation succeeded.
01:21 hudsonbot  Project Koha_Master build #342: SUCCESS in 28 min: http://hudson.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master/342/
01:21 hudsonbot  * Owen Leonard: Fix for Bug 5689 - System preference notifications are not translatable
01:21 hudsonbot  * Owen Leonard: Fix for Bug 5532 - sysprefs editor should show names of saved prefs
01:49 chris_n    @later tell jwagner here is an updated version based on my parsing through irc logs and code
01:49 huginn     chris_n: The operation succeeded.
01:49 chris_n    @later tell jwagner http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Hard_Coded_Values
01:49 huginn     chris_n: The operation succeeded.
02:07 zpinhead   interested in using koha for 'special collections'.
02:07 zpinhead   see the product 'aeon' by atlas systems.
02:08 zpinhead   1) preserve user information for ever.
02:08 zpinhead   2) items always stay in room -- user gives back at end of day
02:08 zpinhead   uses next day, or for several days.
02:09 zpinhead   request items from ead files -- request at level of 'box' or 'folder'
02:09 zpinhead   depending on configuration of 'collection'.
02:09 zpinhead   anyone have any clues as to if this might have been done before?
02:09 zpinhead   thanks.
02:11 zpinhead   here is a url for the 'aeon' product.
02:11 zpinhead   http://www.atlas-sys.com/products/aeon/
02:11 druthb     ....
02:13 druthb     I suspect *something* could be done, although Koha is pretty MARC21/UNIMARC-centric.
02:13 druthb     EAD records would be something unexpected for it, so some hacking would likely be needed.
02:14 zpinhead   i think maybe one key is that you don't have a whole thing.
02:15 zpinhead   you (the patron) borrow a part of a thing -- like, from a particular collection,
02:15 druthb     yah, how you define *item* is something kind of incompatible with Koha's notion of *item.*
02:15 zpinhead   like 'Ezra Cornell's paper'  box 32 -- folder 12 -- it's kind of like
02:16 zpinhead   borrowing one volume of a serial.
02:16 druthb     If you designated a folder as the item, and have a herd of items hooked to the bib, which could be a box or a whole collection, you could make it work.  Loading the data would be a little gnarly, but do-able.
02:17 zpinhead   there is also a scheduling aspect.  folks come from far away to use
02:17 zpinhead   a thing for a few days -- so you need to have check-out's queued up.
02:17 druthb     could maybe use the holds mechanism for part of that, with a little hacking.
02:18 zpinhead   need to make sure schedules don't conflict.
02:18 zpinhead   also some items are also in library catalog -- and need to be fetched
02:18 zpinhead   from 'library annex', but some (many) are of the EAD type.
02:18 zpinhead   and many users are not actually registered at the university --
02:19 zpinhead   so you need to create users on the spot.
02:19 druthb     Easy enough, that.
02:19 druthb     The Really Big Stinker, as I see it, is the EAD format...Koha knows nothing whatever about that.
02:21 zpinhead   is there a 'call slip' mechanism for koha?
02:22 druthb     no, though I think it's been talked about.
02:23 zpinhead   fetch this item from the stacks, and deliver it to a particular
02:23 zpinhead   circ place?
02:26 druthb     yeah, I've seen 'em before.  But Koha has no tool for that.
02:29 zpinhead   this:http://www.librarytechnology.org/ltg-displaytext.pl?RC=14230
02:29 zpinhead   says koha has call slips.  but i don't see anything
02:30 zpinhead   on koha.org
02:30 druthb     If you're looking at koha.org, you're looking in the wrong place.
02:30 zpinhead   as for EAD, like you said -- each EAD would be one bib record,
02:31 zpinhead   and then, some how connect the boxes, and folders as holding info.
02:31 druthb     LibLime Enterprise Koha is a product supported by PTFS/LibLime, based on an older Koha base...  The Koha that's talked about here is based at www.koha-community.org
02:32 druthb     might use the item enum-chron field for box-folder info.
02:33 zpinhead   tricky bit is: if someone has borrowed a box -- which contains
02:34 druthb     yah, could be tedious to check out all the folders in the box.
02:35 zpinhead   some folders -- need to know that those folders are checked out.
02:35 zpinhead   need some sort of 'enclosed' or 'dependency' relations between
02:35 zpinhead   things, entities.
02:36 druthb     yep.
02:46 zpinhead   ead is really hard to parse also -- lots of options, lots of levels
02:47 zpinhead   of nesting -- but i guess we could tailor it to our own needs.
02:47 druthb     mhm
02:48 zpinhead   you can have boxes in boxes in boxes in folders in folders.
02:49 zpinhead   -- one can do that.  but one institution usually has one set of
02:49 zpinhead   conventions -- so could tailor to that.
02:51 druthb     If you build the notion of "Container" right, then it'll work for any level of nesting.
02:54 druthb     "A biblio may hold a Container, which may, in turn, hold, zero-or-more other containers.
02:54 druthb     (If a container holds zero others, then it's a folder, the lowest level of stuff you'll put over the circ desk.
02:55 druthb     Then when you check out any container, it should check out all nested objects contained by it, as deep as needed.
02:57 * druthb   looks to the "digital space" in her head...
02:58 druthb     That could be done by adding one field to the Koha items table, which would contain the itemnumber of the parent item.  a NULL there indicates a top-level item, and an item with no children pointing at it is a bottom-level.
02:59 druthb     There'd be lots of display, editing, circ hacks to be done, but the change to the data structures would not be insane for that.
03:00 druthb     Such a hack would have some value in other contexts, such as kits--barcode the individual objects, and the box they're in.
03:05 druthb     I'm gonna head out for the evening.  zpinhead, please do come back by during US working hours--lotsa folks here and talking, then.  Someone may have other ideas that could help.
03:05 zpinhead   thanks druthb.
03:06 zpinhead   i will sign on tomorrow in working hours.   my library is
03:06 druthb     you bet.  Some interesting ideas that jump off the screen at me...
03:06 zpinhead   looking at aeon -- i would really like to have something else but i
03:06 zpinhead   cannot find anything else in the space.
03:06 zpinhead   cheers.
03:06 zpinhead   tty.
03:06 zpinhead   ttyl.
03:06 druthb     Koha would require a fair bit of hacking to get there.  It's not un-do-able, but it's non-trivial
03:13 kmkale     Namaskar #koha
03:17 kmkale     @weather Mumbai
03:17 huginn     kmkale: The current temperature in Mumbai, India is 25.0�C (8:10 AM IST on February 04, 2011). Conditions: Smoke. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 15.0�C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Rising).
03:27 brendan__  @wunder 93109
03:27 huginn     brendan__: The current temperature in K6LCM - Westside / Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 9.5�C (7:28 PM PST on February 03, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 8.0�C. Windchill: 9.0�C. Pressure: 30.31 in 1026.3 hPa (Falling).
05:28 kmkale     @quote random
05:28 huginn     kmkale: Quote #28: "<owen> I'm glad munin doesn't follow me around all day remembering *everything* I say." (added by jdavidb at 01:14 PM, September 01, 2009)
06:31 rangi      @wunder wellington nz
06:31 huginn     rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 20.0�C (7:00 PM NZDT on February 04, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 19.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
06:31 rangi      sticky
06:43 kf         good morning #koha
06:44 rangi      hi kf
06:47 kf         hi chris
06:53 kmkale     hi chris kf
06:56 francharb  morning #koha
06:56 rangi      hi francharb
06:57 kf         hi francharb and kmkale
07:07 kf         rangi++
07:07 kf         lots of messages from git in my inbox
07:07 kf         chris_n++
07:30 rangi      Yep, getting the biblibre stuff attached to bugs, signed off and merged in
07:30 rangi      chris_n has been a big help
07:39 kf         you both are great
07:44 kf         chris_hall++
07:44 kf         for his template work :)
07:47 Brooke_    kia ora
07:50 kf         hi Brooke_
07:50 Brooke_    :)
07:57 kmkale     namaste Brooke_
07:57 Brooke_    namaste :D
07:59 * Brooke_  is going to try and relax then go to sleep. Not like...
09:02 kf         h hdl1
09:47 kmkale     I am trying to figure out which marc tag information is available in opac-results.tmpl. Cant figure out where <!-- TMPL_VAR name="pages" --> is getting populated in search.pm Any hints?
09:51 kmkale     I want to know which marc tags are available in addition to author, title etc in opac-results.tmpl. And if I need a particular tag, say 653$a, how to get it to display. Please help..
09:52 thd        kmkale: I should be asleep but perhaps I can help.
09:52 thd        Are you using the XSLT view or the standard record detail view?
09:52 kmkale     thd: please
09:53 kmkale     thd: standard
09:54 thd        kmkale: I assume that you do not mean the MARC view.
09:54 kmkale     thd: no. the opac-search.pl?q=sheldon view
09:56 thd        kmkale: In the standard view for one record I think that you need to alter how the subject field is stored in the SQL database or alter the template to grab the data from another place.
09:57 thd        s/another place/additional field/
09:58 kmkale     thd: I am looking into search.pm sub searchResults {. Cant figure how stuff like <!-- TMPL_IF name="pages" etc is getting populated
10:00 kf         kmkale: I don't hink it's search om
10:00 kf         pm
10:01 kf         or not sure, when i added the Controlnumber to the opacsearchtitlein I added it to biblio.pm
10:01 kf         there are methods to get things like subjects
10:01 thd        kmkale: Do you mean one record or a set of brief records?
10:01 kmkale     opac-search.pl calls @newresults = searchResults( then populates $template->param(SEARCH_RESULTS => \@newresults,
10:02 kmkale     kf: so I should use biblio.pm directly in opac-search.pl?
10:03 kf         I think the opac detail view gets the information from the methods in biblio.pm
10:04 kf         so I thought you might want to look there and check
10:04 kmkale     kf i am on opac results page
10:04 kmkale     ok
10:05 kf         we are using the xslt views, but there is none for results in staff
10:07 thd        kmkale: kf is correct that you should look at opac-detail.pl
10:08 kmkale     thd: looking.
10:08 thd        GetMarcSubjects
10:08 kmkale     GetMarcBiblio from biblio.pm
10:15 thd        kmkale: yes in biblio.pm you were right
10:16 thd        kmkale: subjects in opac-detail do not use the Koha SQL database anymore.
10:17 thd        kmkale: Perhaps the framework hidden value for 653 $a is hiding the data from the OPAC.
10:21 thd        kmkale: the hidden value is 0 which should make 653 $a visible in the OPAC.
10:24 thd        kmkale are you certain that the record which you are expecting to see something from 653 $a has a value in 653 $a?
10:24 kmkale     thd: yes
10:24 kmkale     also I am trying to get this value in the search page. Not the detail page
10:25 kmkale     fpr that I will need to populate the template->param(SEARCH_RESULTS in opac-search.pl ( I think )
10:26 kmkale     which gets its values from @newresults = searchResults( method in Search.pm ( I think )
10:31 thd        kmkale: The design of the result set page makes my wince when I see it.
10:32 kmkale     thd: For a non perl person like me its a code nightmare
10:33 kmkale     I have no clue whats going on in Search.pm
10:34 thd        kmkale: Search.pm is complicated and has been the source of much contention in the wake of KohaCon with BibLibre rewriting it for Solr/Lucene instead of Zebra support.
10:35 kmkale     I have read those threads with interest
10:35 thd        kmkale: However, you only need to find what happens when the result set is returned not when the query is sent which is the more complicated part.
10:36 kmkale     thd: yup
10:36 thd        The query formation is the most complicated part.
10:36 kmkale     # loop through all of the records we've retrieved
10:36 kmkale     for ( my $i = $offset ; $i <= $times - 1 ; $i++ ) {
10:36 kmkale     my $marcrecord = MARC::File::USMARC::decode( $marcresults[$i] );
10:37 mtj        kmkale:  use XSLT for opac, its better
10:38 mtj        better = easier for you to customize
10:38 thd        mtj: kmkale is trying to change the result set with multiple records which is unaffected by the XSLT stylesheets
10:40 mtj        if he turned on xslt syspref for opac, it *would* be affected
10:40 mtj        … by the xslt stylesheets
10:42 mtj        http://git.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=koha-tmpl/opac-tmpl/prog/en/xslt/MARC21slim2OPACResults.xsl;h=b3f61e53b5d0d13980d1ec5adbd0c66cfa1770bb;hb=HEAD
10:43 thd        mtj: I had not realised that the result set was affected.
10:44 kmkale     In the searchResults( ) method in Search.pm, does the my $marcrecord  object contain ALL the marc tags for the record?
10:45 mtj        kmkale:  add your 653 stuff to MARC21slim2OPACResults.xsl file
10:45 thd        kmkale: It should contain everything in the record
10:45 kmkale     mtj: never used xslt. will have a look. Thanks for the info
10:46 thd        kmkale: most libraries using MARC 21 prefer to use XSLT for the ease of making changes.
10:46 mtj        xslt makes the opac look much prettier too
10:47 mtj        [[citation needed]]
10:47 mtj        ;) pass, i dont know that...
10:47 kmkale     :)
10:47 thd        kmkale: You should be warned that the XSLT work in Koha is very incomplete and maximally inefficient if your goal is to report very complete record information.
10:48 mtj        most libraries using MARC21 dont know about xslt?
10:48 kmkale     thd: mtj any idea if xslt *might* have any issues with Unicode stuff like India scripts?
10:48 mtj        nah, its more complete than the other option
10:49 kmkale     s/India/Indic/
10:49 thd        mtj: Almost all of LibLime's customers had XSLT turned on for them.
10:49 mtj        meaning more of your bib info is displayed using xslt, than the no-xslt option
10:49 thd        kmkale: Unicode should display fine for any option.
10:50 kmkale     ok. WIll have a look see.
10:51 mtj        well, most liblime customers didnt make changes to their XSLT files ;)
10:51 thd        mtj: If you want to display any arbitrary record data with the XSLT design you have to add the entire MARC standard to the XSLT filter.
10:51 mtj        but hey, a silly topic... :)
10:52 kmkale     thd: you are scring me
10:52 kmkale     s/scring/scaring/
10:52 thd        kmkale: It is not scary.
10:53 thd        kmkale: record display in Koha is weak either way.
10:53 mtj        koha's xslt marc stuff references  xmlns:marc="http://www.loc.gov/MARC21/slim"
10:53 mtj        so its gonna be pretty complete?
10:54 mtj        hah, a dead url :/
10:54 thd        kmkale: The problem with XSLT efficiency is that the Koha implementation is actually merely a feature of YAZ with no concern for anything other than a minimal display.
10:55 kmkale     thd: I did not understand anything from the above statement ;)
10:55 kf         kmkale: don't be scared - xslt is changeable
10:56 kf         kmkale: if you need some help to make it show something, perhaps I can help you sometime
10:56 kmkale     <quote> add the entire MARC standard to the XSLT filter.</quote> sounds scary
10:56 thd        kmkale: YAZ is from IndexData and the Koha XSLT filters are essentially copied from YAZ.
10:56 thd        kmkale: The goal of the filters was to show very little information.
10:57 * kmkale   is aware of YAZ. In the form of yaz-client
10:57 thd        kmkale: YAZ can also convert records using XSLT filters.
10:57 kmkale     kf thanks. May take you up on that help offer
10:59 thd        kmkale: The problem from an efficiency point of view is that the XSLT filters search the record for a list of fields and subfields.
10:59 mtj        i guess my point is, if you dont use XSLT to have to make a nasty mod in opac-results.pl, *and* opac-results.tmpl
10:59 mtj        if you use XSLT , you just have to make a mod to MARC21slim2OPACResults.xsl
11:00 thd        kmkale: The XSLT filters should be reading the record sequentially and only doing something for actual record content.
11:00 kf         mtj: good point :)
11:00 kf         I like xslt
11:00 mtj        and your XSLT mod is more likely to not break when you upgrade your koha
11:01 thd        kf: XSLT is good.  The implementation in Koha is weak.
11:01 mtj        i like XSLT for making my system easier to upgrade, for custom display-mods
11:02 mtj        yep, so add the stuff thats missing ;)
11:02 mtj        … for at least your clients koha
11:02 mtj        like a 652 block
11:02 mtj        s/652/653/
11:02 thd        mtj: The problem with adding what is missing is that it would require parsing the entire MARC standard to be complete.
11:03 thd        mtj: That is why I mean that the XSLT implementation is written backwards.
11:03 mtj        pass, that hasn't been my experience yet
11:03 thd        mtj: There should be no need to parse anything not in the record.
11:04 thd        mtj: The evidence is there in the code.
11:04 mtj        im curious, which file/s ?
11:05 thd        mtj: The exact ones which you have identified
11:05 mtj        theres a *lot* of stuff re: xslt i dont understand yet,
11:06 mtj        but ive manged to display any bib subfield i want, so far
11:06 thd        mtj:  The files for OPAC detail are the most problematic.
11:06 mtj        by modding the .xsl file
11:07 thd        mtj: Yes you can have it display anything you want by specifying what you want.
11:07 mtj        yep, that works ok for me
11:07 kmkale     changed to xslt and 1st tghing is subjests are NOT displayed in the results page
11:07 kmkale     but are displayed in the details [page
11:07 thd        mtj: However, if you want to display everything which might ever be in any record then the design inefficiency is revealed.
11:08 mtj        aaaahhh, a speed issue
11:08 thd        mtj: yes I only refer to speed and precious CPU cycles
11:10 mtj        i imagine the xslt parsing stuff hasnt had a speed tweak yet , tho
11:10 mtj        both things are know problems with workarounds
11:10 thd        mtj: No mere tweak required.  It is written backwards.
11:11 thd        mtj: It should parse the record content against what you want to do with the content.
11:11 mtj        add more content to your .xsl file and get a faster box
11:12 thd        mtj: In contrast, it parses what you want to do with the content against the record content.
11:13 mtj        are you saying koha does this the wrong/slow way?
11:13 thd        mtj: It simply does not scale for presenting all possible record information even if faster boxes are cheap.  Enough users displaying enough records will slow anything.
11:13 thd        mtj: Yes backwards.
11:14 mtj        ah, ok
11:14 thd        mtj: The parsing logic reversed.
11:15 mtj        ok, sounds like a good thing to fix in the future
11:15 thd        mtj: If the list of fields you want to display is small the issue is moot.
11:15 thd        mtj: I have discussed fixing the issue with fredericd.
11:16 thd        mtj: There is a general problem that most of the XSLT files only work with MARC 21 and not UNIMARC.
11:17 mtj        ok, yes, i only run marc21 kohas
11:19 thd        kmkale: The problem may be that the record prepared for the result set page may already be a subset of the  record.
11:20 kmkale     thats what I suspect. That was the reason of the ALL marc question above
11:20 mtj        thd:  its great to hear you have been doing work in this xslt area, those problems are all new to me
11:21 thd        mtj: fredericd had asked me about XSLT a couple of years ago and so I investigated deeply.
11:23 thd        mtj: There has never been substantial effort on XSLT specifically for Koha.  The functionality was essentially invoked from YAZ.
11:25 mtj        yeah, it works well enuff for most usage
11:25 mtj        it just needs improvement, to make it complete and faster
11:26 thd        mtj: Yes, I am one of the unreasonable people never satisfied with what most people find acceptable.
11:26 thd        mtj: The trouble is that fixing it would not be a minor tweak.
11:27 thd        mtj: Fixing the problem would mean redesigning how it functions.
11:28 kmkale     uncommenting use Data::Dumper; print STDERR "-" x 25, "\n", Dumper($results_hashref); in opac-search.pl seems to indicate that all marc info is retrieved
11:28 thd        mtj: XSLT needs to call its own version of a MARC framework.
11:28 kmkale     will verify this
11:30 thd        kmkale: all the data is retrieved for search.pl, however, it may be subsequently filtered before being handed for result set display processing.
11:32 mtj        thd: so the catch with a complete (read: HUGE) marc.xsl file, is that all of teh xsl needs to be evaluated, even if the bib is tiny?
11:33 thd        mtj: exactly
11:33 mtj        and its all that extra evaluating that the performance killer?
11:33 mtj        ah
11:33 thd        mtj: exactly
11:33 mtj        ok, i get it :/
11:35 mtj        so thats the cost of a complete marc.xsl file, the execution of the .xsl is a killer
11:35 thd        mtj: a few users may not notice but given enough users and enough useful features yet to be written also taking the CPU, then the CPU needs to be used more efficiently. to be used better.
11:37 thd        mtj: This issue is trivial compared to some looping problems people are fixing for Koha 3.4
11:37 mtj        hmm, i wonder if there are hacks/tricks to optimise an .xsl file
11:37 mtj        argreed there
11:38 thd        mtj: Not writing to MARC for circulation is the easiest fix for performance people are implementing.
11:40 mtj        well, heres a good point, the .xsl for search results should be pretty brief
11:41 mtj        ultimately it could be complete, but mostly commented-out
11:42 mtj        so a speed win there for results display
11:44 thd        mtj:Yes the result set should be brief in the OPAC.
11:44 mtj        ok, i am off guys, cheers for the info
11:44 thd        mtj: Where are you from?
11:44 mtj        NZ,  mtj = mason.t.james
11:45 thd        Hello mason
11:45 mtj        i have a new nick
11:45 kf         and you are awake at odd hours :)
11:46 thd        I chose uniquely enough not to need a new nick.
11:46 kf         my nick seems to be too short to be registered
11:46 thd        kf: That is what Koha will do to you
11:46 mtj        someone already had wasabi  :/
11:46 thd        kf: Koha keeps people awake forever.
11:47 mtj        kf: nah, 1am isnt that late
11:47 kf         my trick is multiple personalities... hides the fact that I am almost always here a bit better
11:47 thd        6.50 AM where I am is late :)
11:47 kf         12:50 pm
11:47 kf         still a lot of friday left for me
11:48 mtj        12:51am here
12:00 thd        kmkale: I hope you solve the problem, I have to sleep.
12:00 kmkale     search.pm getRecords seems to return complete marc set ( may be wrong as the dumper does not display mark tag numbers but the data is displayed.) but the search.pm searchResults method returns a subset. This subset is pushed in template param. so I think I need to change searchResults method in search.pm :(
12:00 kmkale     by thd
12:01 kf         xslt doesn't work?
12:02 thd        kf: XSLT needs the data to be in the record parsed
12:02 kmkale     kf: no 6xx displayed in results with xslt
12:02 kmkale     its displayed in details
12:03 kf         ah
12:03 thd        kf: prefiltered records are the problem
12:03 * thd      sleeps
12:03 kf         I understand
12:20 kmkale     kf using Biblio.pm seems to be the way
12:42 Nate__     morning #koha!
12:44 slef       hi Nate__
12:44 kf         kmkale: oh :(
12:44 Nate__     hiya slef
12:44 kmkale     kf: I dont dxare touch search.pm
12:47 kf         understandable
12:53 paul_p     'morning americans south & north !
12:55 jwagner    morning/afternoon/evening, the rest of the world....
13:08 hdl        hi
13:08 wahanui1   hola, hdl
13:09 * kf       waves
13:13 kf         hi oleonard :)
13:13 oleonard   Hi
13:13 wahanui1   hello, oleonard
13:29 kf         wahanui_1_?
13:35 jwagner    The bots are cloning?
13:39 kf         that would be scary
13:40 jwagner    World domination is next on their agenda!!!
13:41 oleonard   chris_n: Thanks for the signoffs yesterday
13:41 chris_n    oleonard: yw
13:48 kf         hehe
13:48 kf         wahanui1 botsnack cookies
13:48 wahanui1   :)
13:49 kf         better be nice to the bots
14:15 oleonard   *sigh* The perennial 3.2 question... Why can't I place a hold...
14:15 oleonard   You'd think I've been through this enough times
14:17 * oleonard finds the errant pref
14:18 oleonard   Okay, as per Bug 4806 holds now have a unique id in the reserves table
14:18 huginn     04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4806 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, circ/circulation.tmpl: Add "reservenumber" in the reserved table
14:18 oleonard   But it looks like the hold deletion process hasn't been updated to use it?
14:18 oleonard   Duplicate holds are still deleted all together
14:19 * oleonard thought this was one of the primary motivations for adding the unique id
14:22 oleonard   paul_p or hdl, Might this be a change Biblibre has made in one of your branches?
14:24 hdl        oleonard: there are some work to be sent about that
14:28 tcohen     wahanui1: hi there
14:28 wahanui1   salut, tcohen
14:28 oleonard   hdl: I've created a new bug report for that: Bug 5696. It would be great if you could attach a patch to that when it's ready
14:28 huginn     04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5696 normal, P5, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW, Hold deletion should use reservenumber
14:41 oleonard   Does anyone know how Bug 3929 works?
14:41 huginn     04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3929 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, NEW, parameters in guided reports
14:56 kmkale     bye all. have a nice weekend
14:57 * oleonard finds info on reports parameters in the help file of all places ;)
15:03 oleonard   paul_p++ # for guided reports runtime paramters
15:03 paul_p     thx oleonard
15:04 oleonard   It's a very thoughtful implementation. I like the option to use authorised values
15:04 wizzyrea   paul_p++ for thoughtful implementations
15:06 kf         oleonard: do branches work for you?
15:07 oleonard   Using branches as a parameter?
15:07 kf         yep
15:07 kf         i have a note here somewhere... to retest that
15:07 oleonard   It worked for querying items.homebranch
15:09 kf         ah cool
15:10 kf         can you share the syntax?
15:10 kf         perhaps I had a mistake there
15:11 kf         oleonard: I found that if you use it to put in an integer valuse, like x days ago
15:11 kf         it does not work without an additional trick
15:11 kf         because of the ' ' aroudn the value
15:11 oleonard   Good point, I didn't test that. I tested with strings and dates.
15:12 kf         those work fine
15:12 kf         I did a trick in sql to make it work
15:12 kf         cast(<<Days ago>> as decimal)
15:13 kf         this worked - but I am sure there are better ways to do it
15:13 oleonard   I obviously don't have pastebot0's ear.
15:13 oleonard   http://paste.koha-community.org/138
15:13 oleonard   Sorry for the CONCATs in that, I just tested the last query I'd used
15:13 oleonard   Good morning druthb
15:14 kf         it's perfect, thx
15:14 wizzyrea   oleonard did you tell pastebot which channel to send your paste to?
15:14 oleonard   Tricky pastebot0!
15:14 druthb     hi, oleonard! :)
15:14 wizzyrea   (I sometimes forget and have the same problem you just did)
15:16 * oleonard thinks that when it comes to channels there is only one
15:16 wizzyrea   :)
15:16 wizzyrea   I never really understood why it defaulted to "none"
15:19 kf         hm, so you don't accidently share the wrong things?
15:20 wizzyrea   i suppose if you're using the koha paste to share naughty literature with your clandestine online love interest you might not want it to default to the channel
15:20 wizzyrea   so I suppose you have a point there
15:20 wizzyrea   ;)
15:20 kf         lol
15:21 * druthb   chuckles.
15:23 tcohen     wahanui1: is bug 3929 important?
15:23 huginn     04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3929 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, RESOLVED FIXED, parameters in guided reports
15:24 tcohen     wahanui1: you lost the magic
15:24 wahanui1   tcohen: huh?
15:24 druthb     wahanui1: wizzyrea?
15:24 wahanui1   hmmm... wizzyrea is a nerd
15:24 druthb     hasn't lost all its' marbles, apparently.
15:25 oleonard   I wonder how difficult it would be to get guided reports screen output to automatically link to biblios (for biblio.title, biblio.biblionumber), patrons (for borrowers.surname) etc.
15:25 druthb     oleonard++
15:25 rhcl_away  wahanui1: wahanui1?
15:25 wahanui1   i am onboard I think
15:26 oleonard   Let's hear some real enthusiasm wahanui1!
15:26 rhcl_away  dude needs some coffee
15:27 oleonard   wahanui1: forget wahanui1
15:27 wahanui1   oleonard: I forgot wahanui1
15:27 oleonard   wahanui1 is excited and ready for anything!
15:27 rhcl       he probably just needs some training
15:27 oleonard   wahanui1: wahanui1?
15:27 wahanui1   i am excited and ready for anything! or ready to help!
15:28 wizzyrea   oleonard: LOL @ dalek
15:29 oleonard   wizzyrea: Except your friends now think I want him to be exterminated!
15:29 wizzyrea   hehe unlikely :)
15:35 oleonard   kf: Can you describe the kind of query you were doing where a numeric parameter failed?
15:35 oleonard   I tried doing one with AND items.itemlost = <<Number>> and it worked
15:42 kf         one second
15:44 pastebot0  "kf" at pasted "select concat('<a href="/cgi-b" (12 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/139
15:45 kf         it's one of my reports related to fines and notices
15:45 kf         for finding borrowers with things overdue since x days
15:45 kf         so you can write them another mail or letter
15:46 oleonard   "Seit" ?
15:50 kf         Since
15:50 kf         sorry, thought I had translated everything
15:51 kf         oh, translated to much
15:51 kf         OD since = Seit column
16:00 kf         bye all and have a nice weekend
16:02 chris_n    is there a way to mass renew patron accounts from the staff interface?
16:06 paul_p     chris_n, not that I know.
16:06 oleonard   If there is it must be a closely-guarded secret
16:06 * chris_n  thinks there should be
16:06 paul_p     but in our queue (sponsored by a new customer) there is a "bulkedit" of patrons ;-)
16:06 chris_n    especially for schools :)
16:06 chris_n    that might work
16:07 jwagner    Our Bug 3468 is patron batch edit as well
16:07 huginn     04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3468 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, jwagner, ASSIGNED, Enhanced patron searching, patron batch edit/delete
16:13 * chris_n  resorts to a little sql magick on the back end
16:14 chris_n    basically we are coordinating our patron accounts with the student id card expiration date
16:14 chris_n    makes life easier administratively
16:14 oleonard   Sounds like paul_p's batch edit might work well for that
16:14 chris_n    yup
16:18 oleonard   Hi zpinhead
16:19 zpinhead   hi.
16:19 zpinhead   druthb suggested i ask about this.
16:19 zpinhead   interested in using koha for 'special collections'.
16:19 zpinhead   lots of weird requirements.
16:19 zpinhead   1) preserve user information for ever.
16:19 zpinhead   (traceability in case of theft, damage)
16:19 zpinhead   items always stay in room -- user gives back at end of day
16:20 zpinhead   then borrows in room next day.
16:20 zpinhead   request items from ead files -- request at level of 'box' or 'folder'
16:20 zpinhead   or item.
16:20 zpinhead   like this product -- aeon from atlas systems.
16:20 zpinhead   http://www.atlas-sys.com/products/aeon/
16:22 zpinhead   druthb suggested: "If you build the notion of "Container" right, then it'll work for any level of nesting."
16:22 zpinhead   folks are talking about buying aeon -- very closed architecture.
16:22 zpinhead   windows specific clients.
16:22 zpinhead   would much prefer open source, but have no ready alternative.
16:22 zpinhead   wondering how hard to do with koha.
16:24 oleonard   zpinhead: Would your organization be willing to spend some of the money they'd have spent on Aeon to develop the required functionality for Koha?
16:24 oleonard   That may be what is required.
16:24 wizzyrea   short term outlay for long term benefit
16:24 wizzyrea   and benefits to libraries like yours
16:24 oleonard   http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Hourly_Loans_RFC
16:25 zpinhead   well, i don't know.  but there is a budget, and a non-trivial one,  for yearly maintenance, and initial cost.
16:25 zpinhead   aeon is non-trivial cost -- it's more down to how 1) time -- not sure anyone want to wait for dev.
16:26 zpinhead   (they have been waiting, like, 30 years, for an adequate solution).
16:26 zpinhead   so, from my perspective, what's a few more months.
16:26 zpinhead   and 2) can i be persuasive about open source.
16:27 zpinhead   my experience with atlas is: flashy windows interface -- poor integration with other tools, very
16:27 zpinhead   little api -- sometimes none, and no interest in any.
16:28 wizzyrea   sounds like all the worst things about a proprietary ILS
16:29 wizzyrea   well, hourly loans are indeed on the horizon, that would help you. Patron records can be kept indefinitely (though probably you'd want to archive them periodically
16:30 * oleonard wonders if hourly loans are delayed or if they're being tested by the sponsor
16:31 wizzyrea   wasn't that a sekjal thing?
16:31 wizzyrea   or, it is now, anyway?
16:32 sekjal     I've got to talk to my funding body, and get some wheels in motion as to implementation plan
16:32 jwagner    oleonard, was that directed at me? Our hourly loans feature has still not been approved by the sponsor
16:33 zpinhead   oleonard -- not sure they actually have fines for these things -- it's more like, they walk up
16:33 zpinhead   to you and ask for it back.  the items never leave the guarded room, they have a map that shows
16:33 zpinhead   where each person is sitting, and what that person has borrowed.
16:34 zpinhead   @wizzyrea -- exactly.
16:34 huginn     zpinhead: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
16:34 wahanui1   i already had it that way, huginn.
16:34 zpinhead   and buying something like that now -- what a step back, except that there is no ready alternative.
16:35 wizzyrea   well
16:35 wizzyrea   you can either pay to be locked in, or pay (maybe a little less overall) to be free
16:36 wizzyrea   free to modify, free to migrate, free.
16:36 wizzyrea   and, you get an excuse to hang out with us :)
16:37 wizzyrea   there is no system in place now
16:37 wizzyrea   ?
16:37 oleonard   jwagner: No, it wasn't directed at you. I don't expect to ever see any of the LEK stuff out in the wild
16:38 jwagner    we haven't given up hope....
16:38 oleonard   Two years on?
16:38 jwagner    Not quite one year with us
16:38 zpinhead   @wizzyrea -- right now for special collections, they have three part forms -- pink, yellow, white,
16:38 huginn     zpinhead: downloading the Perl source
16:38 wizzyrea   !! paper!
16:39 wizzyrea   ignore huginn, he's on a rampage today (he's a bot)
16:39 zpinhead   the pink form goes on the shelf (in the vault) to show the item is out, the yellow goes in a box,
16:39 wizzyrea   ah, so you'd need additional receipts (or the ability to dupe print receipts) as well
16:39 zpinhead   and the white goes in a pocket type organizer that matches the chair numbers where people sit.
16:39 wizzyrea   or triplicate paper :P
16:40 wizzyrea   for your receipt printer
16:40 zpinhead   definitely need to keep the pink for -- very important to have
16:40 zpinhead   the shelf form.
16:40 wizzyrea   and an impact receipt printer, since the heat ones won't do multicopy receipts
16:40 * wizzyrea goes off on the practicalities of this for a moment... sorry
16:40 zpinhead   and they like their 'organizer'  shows at a glance what is where by who.
16:41 zpinhead   also need a sort of call slip mechanism -- users request items, and they get 'paged' from
16:41 zpinhead   the vault.
16:42 wizzyrea   like holds, but someone gets notified that something needs to be fetched
16:42 wizzyrea   ?
16:42 zpinhead   right.
16:42 wizzyrea   koha can email a librarian every time a hold is placed, iirc
16:42 wizzyrea   that, mostly, would depend on how you cataloged your items into koha
16:43 wizzyrea   which might take some trial and error
16:43 zpinhead   i think, maybe the biggest deal is treating EAD files like giant multi part MARC records.
16:45 wizzyrea   yea, that's probably your worst challenge re:koha.
17:11 snail      morning all
18:31 rangi      morning
18:33 cait       hi rangi
18:43 hudsonbot  Starting build 343 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
18:46 rangi      does this work for people http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=runnamed&namedcmd=5574
18:49 huginn     New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 5691 - Delete all items respects independentbranches system preferences <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=a4cc394508182f292b4767504dfbac882744c3df>
18:50 rangi      yay cait
18:50 cait       ?
18:50 rangi      can you check something for me please?
18:50 rangi      does this work for people http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=runnamed&namedcmd=5574
18:50 cait       and I thought you were happy to see me... ;)
18:51 rangi      of course, i always am
18:51 cait       There is no saved search        named '5574'.
18:52 cait       what are you working on?
18:52 rangi      dang
18:52 rangi      trying to figure out how to do public saved searches
18:54 cait       hm
18:55 cait       have you checked your preferences page?
18:55 cait       oh
18:55 cait       i see your shared search there
18:58 rangi      ah yeah i just switched it on
18:58 rangi      so if you click on it does ti work?
18:59 rangi      http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=runnamed&namedcmd=5574  hopefully pasting this url now works too
19:00 oleonard   Clicking "run" on the "needs signoff" saved search works
19:00 rangi      yay
19:01 rangi      and the 5574? if so ill send it to biblibre
19:01 oleonard   I don't see a 5574 search
19:01 oleonard   That link doesn't work for me either.
19:01 cait       rangi: no
19:01 rangi      ohh interesting
19:01 rangi      i wonder why one does but the other doesnt
19:01 cait       the link you pasted does not work
19:02 rangi      is there a no status one showing?
19:02 cait       he same as before
19:02 cait       unknown search
19:02 rangi      how odd
19:02 cait       in the preferences I see 2 saved public searches: needs sign-off and Koha 3.4 enhancemants from paul
19:03 oleonard   And I see, in addition, a "signed off" one from cait
19:03 cait       :)
19:04 cait       i logged out/in - no change
19:09 rangi      wow, mohan is persistent .. .and wrong
19:09 hudsonbot  Project Koha_Master build #343: SUCCESS in 26 min: http://hudson.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master/343/
19:09 hudsonbot  Chris Cormack: Bug 5691 - Delete all items respects independentbranches system preferences
19:13 rangi      eek and he uses boxbe
19:13 jcamins    What?
19:13 jcamins    Sorry, I'm with you now.
19:13 jcamins    I thought that was your response to your latest commit. ;)
19:15 cait       boxbe?
19:15 rangi      means if you send him mail you have to go fill in an online form before he gets it, with a captcha
19:16 rangi      tis a pretty over the top anti spam thing, also means that boxbe reads all your mail
19:16 jcamins    Oh, I never fill those out when people ask for help on a mailing list.
19:17 rangi      yeah
19:17 jcamins    They can do without my advice.
20:01 jcamins    Where would I look to find out who the staff person who checked a book out was?
20:02 cait       statistics or action_logs
20:02 cait       I am quite sure you can see it in the log viewer
20:02 cait       I used it to check the self check in the beginning
20:04 jcamins    Yeah, that's what I need to do.
20:06 jcamins    describe statistics;
20:06 jcamins    That's the third time I've done that this week.
20:08 jcamins    cait: any chance you have the report you used?
20:09 cait       no report
20:09 cait       only the log viewer from tools
20:09 jcamins    Aww.
20:09 jcamins    Oh, I see.
20:09 cait       but it should not be hard to find out
20:09 jcamins    No, I just figured it out, I think.
20:10 jcamins    Oops.
20:10 jcamins    Don't do a SELECT DISTINCT on a TEXT field.
20:10 jcamins    Just don't.
20:10 jcamins    ;)
20:13 jcamins    Why is action_logs.action a TEXT field?
20:22 cait       don't ask me
20:22 cait       I tried to clean up borrowers
20:22 cait       but it's an unfinished project :(
20:24 cait       and lots of unused columns
20:24 cait       ok, time to read a book :)
20:25 cait       bye all :)
21:05 Brooke_    kia ora
21:16 wizzyrea   hi brooke
21:17 Brooke_    :)
21:26 jcamins    Does anyone know anything about translated XSLTs not working?
21:26 jcamins    We're getting this error, and it seems like I should remember why: /home/koha/kohaclone/koha-tmpl/opac-tmpl/prog/hi/xslt/MARC21slim2OPACResults.xsl:264:
21:26 jcamins    parser error : Opening and ending tag mismatch: img line 263 and xsl:if </xsl:if>
21:26 jcamins    Oops, sorry, I meant that to be on one line.
21:43 jcamins    Is it safe to run perl translate fr-FR
21:43 jcamins    on a live system?
21:47 snail      rolled back COI edit on the LibLime page https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=LibLime&action=history
21:50 snail      jcamins looking at that error, it suggests that unclosed images tags, which work fine in HTML but not XSLT
21:50 jcamins    snail: I think the problem is that we need to re-run the translate script.
21:50 snail      the img tag needs to look like:   <img ...... />
21:50 gmcharlt   snail: actually, I think it's a mismatch in the XSLT itself, not an an image tag generated by it
21:51 gmcharlt   jcamins: and that sounds plausible
21:51 snail      oh, ok, sorry