Time Nick Message 03:13 Amit heya chris 03:13 wasabi morning amit 03:13 Amit heya mason 03:18 yhager Trying to add my first record, I get an error about item 942 not filled - item type - what is this? 03:19 chris its probably telling you you havent put an itemtype in 942c 03:21 brendan_l heya amit 03:21 Amit heya brendan 03:22 yhager chris: yes, I got that. but the option list there is empty. How can I define item types? 03:22 chris you probably should read the manual 03:22 chris 2 secs, ill find you a link 03:23 chris http://koha-community.org/documentation/3-2-manual/index.php?ch=x2963#AEN3051 03:25 yhager chris: thanks! I downloaded the stable release though (3.0) 03:25 chris that itemtype link is the same 03:26 chris and for the rest http://koha-community.org/documentation/ 03:26 chris there is a pdf there for 3.0 03:26 yhager but I can't find the item type page link 03:27 yhager I am looking at at the admin home page.. 03:28 yhager found it. sorry 03:29 chris no worries 03:29 chris pretty much everything on that page is worth looking through (the admin one) 06:58 ivanc hi #koha 07:10 kf good mornign #koha 07:21 kf chris: aroundß 07:29 ivanc guten morgen kf 07:32 kf hi ivanc :) 07:39 kf git++ 07:39 kf @karma git 07:39 munin kf: Karma for "git" has been increased 8 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 8. 07:41 kf hi magnus :) 07:41 magnus hiya kf and #koha 08:23 ivanc hi magnus 08:23 magnus hi ivanc 08:23 magnus hi davi 08:25 davi hi magnus 08:28 kf @wunder Konstanz 08:28 munin kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 12.2�C (10:31 AM CEST on September 14, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 30.33 in 1027.0 hPa (Steady). 08:29 chris kf: am now 08:31 kf chris: I had problems with git commit --amend - but solved it :) 08:32 chris ah cool 08:32 chris patch looks good 08:35 chris signed off and resent 08:36 chris for ones like that in the future, you could send direct to me, and ill send the signed off one to the list, save doubling up on the list (ie if its one ive said ill sign off on) 08:36 kf ok 08:37 kf yeah, makes more sense and less work too 08:37 chris hopefully we get to the point where its pretty much only signed off patches hitting the list 08:39 kf I think it's good to do that, but more work for the developer too 08:39 kf finding people to sign-off 08:39 chris yup, but much more chance it will get pushed up 08:40 chris yes, but building those relationships makes the project stronger 08:40 chris new ones of course can just send to the list 08:40 chris but its nice to build up, ill sign yours, you sign mine type deals :) 08:44 kf hm. I think I am only a bit worried about finding people to sign off on mine. 08:44 chris until 3.2 is released, im happy to sign off on yours 08:44 kf thx chris :) 08:44 chris once 3.2 is released ill be busy with 3.4 stuff 08:44 kf yep 08:45 kf we will keep you busy :) 08:45 chris but robin at catalyst might be able to take over 08:45 chris ill ask him tomorrow at work 08:46 kf I will try to talk to others too and I have no problem with testing a lot of patches :) 08:46 chris :) 09:41 kf hm, working on documentation about borrower notification - my messaging table looks strange again :( 10:10 ivanc with Debian lenny on the git installation 10:10 ivanc I've found a issue in zebra installer, cpan XML::LibXLT fail 10:10 ivanc with this error: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgdbm 10:10 ivanc the lib is already present : perl -V | grep libs 10:10 ivanc solved with the creation of 2 simbolic link 10:10 ivanc /usr/lib/libgdbm.so.3.0.0 10:10 ivanc and 10:10 ivanc /usr/lib/libgdbm.so.3.0.0 10:10 ivanc could help someone? 10:14 chris libxslt? 10:14 chris why are you cpanning it on, not apt-get? 10:15 chris apt-get install libxml-libxslt-perl 10:16 chris and apt-get idzebra too 10:21 ivanc cris: because a version error with libxml 10:23 chris if you really have to install from source, rather than from packages, then you need the gdbm development libraries 10:24 chris apt-get install libgbdm-dev 10:27 ivanc cris: true, but my libxml was from cpan, I thought it was better to have updated libraries 10:28 ivanc cris: but still running :) 10:29 chris its always better to have packages 10:29 chris they are looked after by the debian security team 11:47 magnus good morning jwagner & nengard! 11:47 nengard morning 11:50 jwagner Hi magnus 11:51 mgarces hello everyone 11:57 mgarces is koha avaylable in other languages 11:57 mgarces ?? 11:57 chris_n mgarces: yes 11:58 magnus mgarces. http://translate.koha.org/ 11:58 mgarces =) 11:59 mgarces my boss asked me to install this 12:17 owen Hi #koha 12:18 ivanc hi owen 12:19 Amit Hi Jwagner 12:19 jwagner Hi Amit 12:28 druthb mornin, #koha. 12:29 owen Hi druthb 12:29 druthb :D hi, owen! 12:29 owen druthb: Working on anything fun lately? 12:30 druthb fixing things for wizzyrea and schuster a lot. That's "fun," of a sort, because they're two of my favorite people. Takes your fun where you can get it. 12:31 owen It's always easier to fix things for people who will appreciate it 12:31 druthb Other non-work stuff is more fun. Go check my new facebook profile pic...Kind Of A Big Deal. 12:33 jwagner Wow, that was fast turnaround on the pic! 12:34 druthb jwagner++ # for taking it. 12:51 jcamins Good morning, #koha 13:56 wizzyrea good morning peeps 13:56 * druthb waves to wizzyrea. 13:56 wizzyrea how is everybody this morning? 13:57 druthb :D 14:05 kf hi jcamins and wizzyrea :) and druthb! :) 14:05 wizzyrea ooh, hi kf 14:05 wizzyrea :) 14:06 brendan morning 14:06 druthb hi, kf. :D 14:06 * druthb waves to brendan 14:06 wizzyrea ooh, brendan is up early 14:06 brendan :) 14:07 wizzyrea I forget when does the wee one arrive? 14:15 brendan december 14:15 wizzyrea ooh getting close! 14:16 wizzyrea well not *that* close I guess but... never mind. lol. 14:19 brendan it's getting closer 14:19 brendan I'm in the hurry up and wait mode 14:28 wizzyrea yes, in the "still luxuriating in the fact you can sleep in" mode 14:28 wizzyrea :D 14:29 owen brendan can sleep at least. His wife must be going into "can't ever get comfortable" mode 14:29 brendan that's so true 14:29 wizzyrea idk, even when I was in "can't ever get comfortable" it was still a luxury to be in bed, not doing anything. 14:30 wizzyrea now it's all "please don't put your peas in your water" and "it would be better if you didn't stick the drumstick up your nose" 14:30 jcamins wizzyrea: you make it all sound so appealing. 14:30 wizzyrea "please use your fork for eating, not for stabbing the cat" 14:30 wizzyrea >.> don't get me wrong, it's glorious ;) 14:31 jcamins :) 14:31 jcamins Time to head to work. 14:31 wizzyrea you also get kiddo proclaiming "HOT BALLOONS ARE AWESOME" 14:31 jcamins Today is awesome book day! 14:31 jcamins Aww. They are, of course (hot balloons, and books). :D 14:44 ivanc any idea for using Schlagwortkatalog in text searching? whit the rule explain in the RSWK? 14:51 reva Hi my friends, I have a quick question; when I turn on repeat for 952 $h (serial enumeration and chronology) so that various irregular numbering for the serials can be handled more elegantly, it does not work. (running Koha 3.0.6). Any ideas why? 15:01 kf I think the repeated subfidles in item are perhaps problematic 15:12 kf invanc: ask me tomorrow about RSWK and authorities - I can tell you some things 15:13 owen chris_n: Am I to understand that you can perltidy a TMPL file? Or were you just making changes to the TMPL file based on the perltidy rules? 15:13 ivanc tnks kf 15:13 chris_n owen: the latter 15:14 kf leavning now - bye all 15:15 chris_n I'm not sure what would happen if one ran perltidy on a template file 15:27 reva hi again, sorry kf: I stepped out. So what other ways are there to display holdings for serials in 3.0.6? 15:28 owen reva: Use the serials module? Unfortunately that's not easy if you're migrating existing holdings 15:29 chris_n owen: after a brief test, running perltidy on tmpl files is *not* recommended for sanity's sake 15:30 owen I can hear the klaxons from here! 15:41 brendan @wunder 93117 15:41 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 13.1�C (8:41 AM PDT on September 14, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: 11.0�C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015.1 hPa (Rising). 15:41 owen http://git.biblibre.com/ not working anymore? 15:51 reva owen: 3.0.6 does not have a serial module in Admin choices, except to enter subscriptions and go from there. But if you are meaning enter the title as serial (both using the serial framework and explicitly coding it in the leader), I have done that; there does not seem to be any way to enter holdings except in 952 $h and my version does not repeat that subfield, though I have enabled it. 15:52 owen reva: I mean using the serials module. /cgi-bin/koha/serials/serials-home.pl 15:54 reva owen: please explain, where I would find this file. 15:55 owen From the staff client home page, click "Serials" 15:56 reva owen: That is what I meant when I said "I see only a way to enter new subscription" with all the expected frequency, etc; but no way to input a bib record and create holdings in it. 15:58 owen You create a bib record first in the regular bib editor. Then you attach a subscription to it in Serials. Then you receive issues in Serials and attach items at that time. 16:01 reva Ok, I will try that. So I can search for the bib record I just created from inside the "new Subscription" and build the pattern and it will attach a new item record for the bib every time I receive the issue and record it, correct? 16:03 owen Yes. You have to choose "create an item record when receiving this serial" 16:03 owen ...when you create the subscription 16:03 reva owen: ok, got that about creating item record when receiving; thanks. What about compressed holdings from before? where would they go? 16:04 owen I don't know about that, sorry :( 16:05 reva owen: I mean, for example v.10 (1970) - v.12 (1972), v.15 (1975); how would I show them? 16:05 owen I don't know. 16:07 reva owen: ok, I will first do what you told me and figure out a way to enter retrospective holdings. If you know anyone with serials issues as mine who solved it, I would appreciate knowing in the future. Thanks. 16:10 reva owen: I think may be creating new duplicate bib record for the serial and recording the compressed holdings in its item record and adding notes about the existence of two bib records may work. 16:19 owen Anyone have enough authority records to test Bug 3187? 16:19 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3187 normal, P5, ---, nahuel.angelinetti, ASSIGNED, pagination in authority search doesn't work 16:26 cait owen: I have a lot, but can't test today 16:27 owen Thanks cait. No rush, but it looks like it could be marked fixed if it's working. 16:28 cait ok, I will add me ass cc to the bug and write a reminder to myself 16:33 chris_n sekjal: just commented up the RFC on hourly loans 16:33 sekjal chris_n: awesome, thanks! I'll read it tomorrow 16:33 sekjal today's my day off 16:34 sekjal but for some reason I still find myself in chat... 16:34 sekjal :) 16:34 owen I think Bug 3094 is fixed. Can anyone confirm? 16:34 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3094 major, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Public Virtual Shelf can be Modified / Deleted by any non-logged in patron 16:35 cait sekjal: I know the feeling ;) 16:35 cait i will try to comment on the rfc's too - but it's been a crazy week :( 16:37 jcamins_a sekjal: I'm not quite sure what a day off is, but I'm sure you shouldn't be spending it on #koha. ;) 16:42 sekjal jcamins: well, in the future, my days off my revolve around getting my home Koha instance up and running, so it would make sense for me to be in chat then 16:43 jcamins sekjal: your home Koha instance? 16:44 brendan jcamins - everyone needs a home koha install 16:44 sekjal yeah, I'm going to set on up to track my books, movies, music and such 16:44 sekjal and hopefully get my friends on board as well 16:44 sekjal set up a personal consortium 16:44 jcamins brendan: Far be it from me to disagree with you! In fact, that's what I go around telling everyone! :D 16:46 rhcl rhcl wonders if sekjal will charge fines 16:46 owen It could be a disciplinary exercise for kids: check books out to them for bedtime, then charge fines if you have to pick them up off the floor the next day 16:47 jcamins If you can change the units, you could charge in rounds of drinks. This encourages A) socialization and B) returning books on time. 16:47 sekjal rhcl: I think I'll set up another currency, and charge folks in fresh produce 16:47 rhcl a way to recoup some of that excessive allowance money 16:47 sekjal drinks woudl be good, too 16:47 brendan excellent ideas - I may implement that 16:48 rhcl if you charge in produce you'll go broke (hungry?) in the winter 16:48 jcamins And you'll end up with way too much zucchini in the summer. 16:49 cait mmh zucchini 16:49 rhcl speaking of which, time for lunch 16:49 sekjal rhcl: indeed! 16:49 cait dinner time 16:50 brendan coffee time 16:50 jcamins (courgette for our British compatriots) 16:50 jcamins :) 16:50 rhcl I got coffee, need tacos 16:50 * jwagner is channeling the spirit of owen. Ommmmmm. 16:50 jwagner Have to go teach some of our people how to do OPAC customizations :-) 16:50 cait :) 16:52 owen jwagner: Don't forget to impart Rule 1: Don't make it ugly! 16:52 jwag_mtg owen, ugly is in the eye of the beholder. The client wants it, the client gets it :-) 16:54 jwag_mtg Mind you, I do make some rather strongly-worded suggestions, at times.... 16:55 cait :) 16:58 * owen hops on the lunch train 18:15 ivanc hi #koha 18:21 * chris_n finds he somehow missed out on the lunch thing 18:25 rhcl not too late, go for it :) 18:28 chris_n yeah, its never too late for food imho :) 19:05 * jwagner is tired now. It's hard pretending to be owen :-) 19:06 owen It's hard to do the silly walk just right 19:07 jcamins A quarter twist and a hop to the left every third step? 19:07 jwagner It's just a jump to the right! 19:10 jcamins And then a step to the left? :) 19:12 jwagner Put your hands on your hips (or was it knees?) 19:12 jcamins I certainly don't know. I never saw the film, and only saw the show once. 19:12 jwagner Let's Do The Time Warp Again! 19:13 jcamins That part I knew. ;) 19:15 chris http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1009/S00078/rocky-icon-gets-residency.htm 19:18 jwagner The really priceless version was a parody done on some Comedy Channel show (I think) in the '80s, called the Ronnie Horror Picture Show. With El Presidente in the Dr. Frank-n-furter role, complete with costume..... 19:18 jwagner I cherish a copy of that. 19:21 owen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb-uw_uTdUI 19:22 jwagner Yep, that's it :-) 19:29 owen What should koha-error_log's permissions be? 19:30 chris different distributions set them at different level 19:31 chris on debian, its probably gonna be owned by root, and readable only by root 19:31 jcamins 644 root:root 19:31 jcamins But I'm on Debian. 19:31 chris i put my apache logs in /var/log/apache2 (koha included) and let logrotate take care of them 19:32 chris yours are probably where koha wanted to put them? 19:32 chris 640 root:adm on my ubuntu box 19:32 jcamins Ooh, I guess I should figure out how to get logrotate to work happily with the logs for my dev install script. 19:33 chris yup, you should, or huge files here we come :) 19:33 jcamins *for dev installations from from my Koha dev-install-ing script 19:33 chris there is a config script in misc 19:33 * owen is trying to figure out why errors aren't getting recorded to the log anymore 19:33 jcamins Why is opac-error so massive? 19:33 chris look in the main apache error log 19:34 chris jcamins: warns 19:34 jcamins Ah. 19:34 chris not errors, but things like uninitialized variable blah blah 19:34 chris and then some ppl have left warns in ... both of which should be fix 19:35 chris harmless in the greater scheme of things, but noisy logs mean real errors get missed 19:36 jcamins Well, when I have nothing else to do, perhaps I'll fix some of them. 19:36 chris owen: what version of apache are you running, one of them decides to just put stuff in the main log ... also .. are you running logrotate? is it writing to the .1 logs instead? 19:36 chris jcamins: thatd be great 19:36 * jcamins laughs hysterically at the idea of having nothing else to do 19:36 chris bug2505 19:36 chris is where you can log fixes under 19:36 chris its a nice habit that if you are touching a script 19:36 chris you check it has use warnings; 19:37 chris an fix any warnings as well 19:37 chris 2 birds one stone and all that 19:37 owen chris: It was working the other day, and then I emptied out the log files (not using logrotate obviously) 19:37 cait jcamins: cookie? 19:37 chris owen: that'd do it 19:37 chris stop apache2 19:37 jcamins cait: Was that an offer or a request? 19:37 cait an offer 19:37 chris mv the log files out of the way 19:37 cait I feel with you 19:37 jcamins Ah. Thank you! 19:38 chris start it again, and apache2 should create log files with the permissions it can write to 19:38 cait but if you take cookies we can trade 19:38 cait have cookies.. 19:38 jcamins I actually have no baked goods at all right now. 19:38 jcamins I may have to bake something quick tonight. 19:40 chris owen: lemme know if that works 19:40 chris but now i have to catch my bus 19:40 owen No, didn't work. 19:41 cait jcamins: that seems unusual for you - no cookies around :) 19:41 chris owen: is it writing to the main error log? 19:42 jcamins cait: it is. And very sad. 19:42 * cait sends an emergency package with a lot of cookies 19:42 * chris really goes this time 19:52 owen Got it. The files needed to be in the adm group. Must be an Ubuntu thing. 20:00 owen Is there a standard practice for updating a script's copyright statement if you edit it? 20:00 owen Should we be doing that? 20:02 chris Yes owen 20:03 owen Add another line after the existing copyright line? 20:03 chris We should definitely add to the copyright 20:03 chris Parts copyright owen 20:03 cait owen: this is a good question 20:03 owen chris: ? 20:03 cait chris: for every change or only significant changes? 20:04 jcamins Does that mean everyone who touches a file needs to add their name to the copyright statement? 20:05 cait I think most people don't touch the copyright statements, perhaps we should agree on something and add it to the wiki 20:05 chris Its a judgement call no hard and fast rules 20:05 chris But yes you change 3 or 4 lines then parts copyright you 20:05 chris Seems reasonable 20:06 chris Have to go back and fix the files is one of our jobs 20:06 chris Its all in the git logs 20:07 chris But we can't go into debian proper until we fix it 20:07 chris If ppl want I can point it out on patches and ask for resubmit 20:07 owen Should a "parts copyright" be noted differently than the original copyright? 20:08 chris In fact I will for 3.4 20:08 chris And ill ask colin to as well 20:08 jcamins Why can't we go into Debian? 20:08 chris Um 20:08 chris Cos of the copright statements 20:09 jcamins There has to be an accurate copyright statement in each file? 20:09 chris They are wrong 90% 20:09 chris Yes 20:09 jcamins Okay. I don't know much about Debian. 20:09 chris And its a good rule too 20:09 jcamins Other than that it's the distribution I use to run Koha. ;) 20:10 chris Owen: there are some parts copyright bits in there a grep should find them 20:11 owen # Copyright 2006 Katipo Communications. 20:11 owen # Parts Copyright 2009 Foundations Bible College. 20:11 owen chris: In terms of Debian, is it a problem that our template files have no copyright statement? 20:12 chris If you make big changes then I think a copyright line by itself is fine, ie if I rewrote a script id just put copyright chris cormack 2010 20:13 chris Owen: not sure ill read up, lars or slef would know 20:13 chris Mainpage.pl has no copyright statement .. so we have stuff to do 20:13 larsw owen, as long as copyright status is otherwise clear, it's not a problem, but it's easier to be clear by putting the copyright statement and license info in each file, even though it is ugly 20:14 chris Yay larsw! 20:14 chris One thing I hope to do 20:14 chris Is the first day of the dev conference 20:15 chris We teach the librarians how to do research with git 20:15 chris And then ask them to fix the copyrights 20:15 chris :) 20:15 magnus chris: good plan! ;-) 20:16 larsw :) 20:16 jcamins You'd think we librarians would be good at that. :) 20:16 chris Larsw: what do you reckon a rule of thumb should be for needing to update the copyroght? 20:17 jcamins I wonder how many files there are to go through. 20:17 chris And are you in the uk now? 20:17 chris jcamins hundreds 20:17 jcamins Wow. There are 11k files in Koha. 20:17 jcamins That doesn't seem right to me. 20:17 cait only the librarians? 20:17 jcamins I must have a recursive symlink. 20:18 * cait does not want to only do boring things at kohacon ;) 20:18 chris Its the images, css etc too jcamins 20:18 jcamins Ah. Right. 20:18 owen And translations maybe? 20:18 jcamins There are 940ish .pl files. 20:18 owen Gotta go, see y'all tomorrow 20:18 chris Cait: I'm trying to spare you the boring stuff 20:19 chris You're a developer now 20:19 magnus cait: you are a developer, remember! 20:19 chris :) 20:19 magnus ;-) 20:19 magnus :-) 20:19 larsw chris, I'll need to think about that and I'm about asleep already, so I'll answer later -- could you e-mail me so I don't forget? 20:20 chris Will do 20:20 chris Thanks 20:21 cait oh, good 20:21 * cait tries to remember :) 20:21 chris Ok my stop, cyas 20:28 cait magnus: but I am a librarian too 20:28 magnus me too 20:28 cait :) 20:28 magnus i guess we can choose what hat to wear as we see fit... ;-) 20:28 cait lol 20:28 cait yep, was thinking the same right now 20:35 chris back 20:36 magnus that was quick 20:37 richard hi 20:37 chris hi richard 20:37 richard hey chris 20:37 richard nice spring day out there 20:38 cait wb chris 20:38 chris it sure richard 20:39 chris magnus: its only a short walk from the bus stop to work, i stopped to get a flat white too .. you will need to learn about those in NZ :) 20:39 magnus coffee? nah... ;-) 20:49 cait coffee with a lot of milk is perhaps drinkable 20:49 chris you people are crazy 20:50 chris :) 20:56 magnus just wait until you find out how crazy we really are! 20:56 magnus and so to bed 21:03 cait can't wait to meet magnus :) 21:04 cait chris: we are really crazy, better prepare for it :) 21:04 chris i have the padded rooms ready 21:05 jcamins Nothing except a computer and a motivational Koha poster? 21:05 chris :) 21:20 cait bed time 21:20 cait bye all :) 22:07 brendan_l @wunder 93117 22:07 munin brendan_l: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 19.8�C (3:08 PM PDT on September 14, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: 12.0�C. Pressure: 29.94 in 1013.8 hPa (Falling). 22:26 Braedon 1ngR0ut3 22:26 Braedon hehe, wrong window 22:56 * robin logs into all of Braedon's accounts with that password :) 22:56 * Braedon is thankful it was only Part of his password 22:57 Braedon damn empathy popping up 23:02 * Braedon probably should change that password wherever it is used regardless... 23:02 Braedon any ideas for a password anyone? :P 23:32 robin Braedon: I recommend 'password1' 23:32 rhcl 'changeme' 23:32 richard friday is always popular 23:32 robin 'changeme' is my usual default when I give passwords to people. Then I find that they haven't changed it two weeks later. 23:33 robin So now I sometimes use "changethispasswordbecauseitisreallylongandapaintotype" 23:33 rhcl Give out something like: 'I eat snakes!" 23:34 rhcl Hey, that one's not too bad. I should have kept that and used it myself. 23:35 Braedon wouldn't a lot of things not allow a password that long robin? 23:35 robin Not the software that I'm giving out passwords on. It's bad design to have a max length on passwords. 23:35 Braedon yeah 23:36 Braedon there was something a while ago that i had to use that wanted one between 6 and 10 characters or something 23:36 Braedon it was really annoying 23:36 robin yeah, that's just stupid 23:36 Braedon possibly studylink or something like that 23:37 Braedon no, wait, it was account at UoA 23:37 Braedon i had to come up with an abreviation of my standard password at the time 23:37 Braedon XKCD really is right. I use the same password for almost everything 23:38 Braedon except my bank account theoretically 23:38 robin yeah, so do I. Although there's a password generator that I've been meaning to use. It takes the URL and your password and hashes them, that hash being the real password. 23:40 Braedon Whenever my standard password gets compromised(not often thankfully, but always have the occasional slip-up, like this time where my IRC client took focus on my second screen while i was sodoing), i have to change a bunch of accounts fast, and usually don't have the time to make up a new one. So, i use my bank password, meaning to then upgrade that one... 23:41 Braedon usually QUITE a long overlap... 23:41 Braedon in the middle of one atm, so i actually need two passwords :P 23:41 robin My usual trick for shell passwords is to write it on my hand, and use it a lot the first day or two. By the time it's faded, I've memorised it. 23:43 Braedon yeah, once i have come up with something for my main password, memorising it isn't usually a problem 23:43 Braedon i remember the keystroke sequence 23:44 Braedon but for my higher level password used for bank and a few other things, i jsut don't use it often enough 23:46 robin Once they've set, I can't forget them. I have a shell acct I use about twice a year, and I couldn't tell you the password, but it comes naturally after typing 'ssh <hostname>' 23:47 Braedon yip, same 23:48 Braedon i can remeber a sequence seemingly indefnitely IF i am currently staring at somewhere where i would input it 23:48 Braedon anywhere else, i wouldn't have a clue 23:48 Braedon but just start typing it regardless, and the sequence just comes out, even if i can't remember the first character 23:50 robin yeah. This has become a problem when trying to enter passwords on my phone. 23:51 Braedon haha, my problem with that is that i rely on the num row quite a lot(as evidenced in the password fragment that started this) 23:51 Braedon my current password is REALLY hard to input on an android keyboard