Time  Nick       Message
03:19 wajasu     sweet! 3.2 has a koha_perl_deps.pl script so now I can drive my distribution package builder from it!
03:22 Amit       heya chris, brendan
03:22 brendan    hi Amit
06:32 chris      I think I have answered every email with send a patch today
06:37 chris      I might make a template
07:10 kf         good morning #koha
07:12 magnus     hiya kf and #koha
07:12 kf         morning magnus and paul_p
07:12 kf         marc-must-die? :)
07:13 magnus     kf: yup! it's about time
07:13 kf         I am really looking forward to meet you :)
07:14 magnus     and the same to you!
07:14 magnus     my trip starts in exactly 2 months! ;-)
07:15 kf         mine too :)
07:15 kf         @wunder Konstanz
07:15 munin      kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 14.5�C (9:24 AM CEST on August 19, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 14.0�C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017.2 hPa (Steady).
07:15 kf         ah Jacob Voss contributed to your wiki
07:17 magnus     yup. hope he is not the only one, or i will loose my faith in a better future for library data... ;-)
07:17 magnus     @wunder bodo, norway
07:17 munin      magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 14.0�C (9:20 AM CEST on August 19, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
07:18 paul_p     hi Europe (magnus & kf)
07:19 paul_p     my trip start in less than 2 months, as we do a stop-and-go of 1 day in Kuala-Lumpur
07:19 magnus     hiya paul_p
07:19 paul_p     ;-)
07:19 magnus     paul_p: sounds good!
07:20 kf         :)
08:39 jt         hi, is there any hardware requirement for a decent koha installation with about 250 simultaneous users?
08:41 pastebot   "jt" at pasted "koha goes to crawl/ without current users" (14 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/46
08:47 chris      magnus: i wish you had killed marc before i started working on koha
08:47 kf         jt: I don't know, our libraries are quite small and I am not sure what hardware we are using
08:47 kf         evening chris :)
08:47 chris      jt: simultaneous librarian users, or people using the opac
08:48 magnus     chris: sorry about that, but i guess i have been a librarian about as long as you have worked on koha... ;-)
08:48 jt         chris: the current nopaste is a koha server without users using it, but somehow it bring the server to crawl
08:49 jt         what is the use of opac-reserver.pl by the way?
08:50 kf         it normally appears when you make a reserve in the opac
08:50 kf         or at least it did when I worked on that some time ago
08:50 kf         reserve = hold
08:50 chris      jt: theres no way they should be running that long
08:51 chris      55:34.02 opac-reserve.pl
08:51 jt         is this a bug or server hacked?
08:51 chris      not a bug
08:51 chris      but unlikely its been hacked
08:52 kf         I had problems with that when my perl code was not right - had to kill the processes
08:52 chris      well if you put an infinite loop in it yeah, but if you havent edited opac-reserve.pl its unlikely to be that
08:52 chris      more likely mysql is jammed
08:52 jt         the usual approvch to resolve is to restart the server orweb server
08:53 jt         but I don't think it will be the cure on the long run
08:53 chris      yeah, thats not so much resolving as postponing :)
08:53 kf         chris: I see... you know me ... I always manage to make infinite loops
08:53 kf         :)
08:54 magnus     kf: and you still think of yourself as a non-developer? ;-)
08:55 kf         magnus: I think this is a good reason to think of me as a non-developer! :)
08:56 kf         magnus: it took me about a week to get the code right - and all I wanted to do was to show serial enumeration in the item list for item level holds!
08:56 magnus     kf: nah, it shows you try. the name does not say anything about how successfull you are :-)
08:57 kf         hmpf. :)
08:57 chris      jt: http://markmail.org/message/n6v2sikmud7vdtbb
08:58 jt         chris: thanks, I'll try this out
08:59 DaGentooB  I am looking at label-item-search.pl and on my installation if there is more then 1 page of results it lists the first 20 and then the rows for the rest and no data. If I try to go to the next page it lists the first 20 and that is it.
09:00 DaGentooB  I was trying to download the latest from GIT but I clicked on the instructions link on the website and my dns said it couldn't find wiki.koha
09:02 chris      which website?
09:02 wasabi     http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
09:02 chris      www.koha-community.org is the official koha website, and what wasabi just pasted is the wiki :)
09:02 DaGentooB  http://koha.org/download
09:02 wasabi     heh, heya chris
09:02 Amit       heya wasabi
09:02 chris      yeah, dont believe koha.org
09:03 wasabi     dagentoob: thats the *old* koha website ;)
09:03 chris      its not under the control of the community, but one company, (it used to be community controlled)
09:03 chris      so only that one company can update it, and they don't
09:03 DaGentooB  oh ok
09:04 DaGentooB  ok that makes more sense.
09:04 chris      we keep hoping they will return the domain to the community, but they seem more interested in sowing confusion and being hostile instead
09:04 wasabi     yes, lots of links on the old koha.org website dont work anymore :(
09:04 DaGentooB  now... about label-item-search.pl
09:05 DaGentooB  any idea why it would be doing that?
09:05 wasabi     and people go there, like you dagentoob, and get confused :(
09:05 kf         chris: my coworker has pootle permission problems and I dont see the language list when logged in - something wrong there again?
09:05 DaGentooB  I am thinking that the for loop is putting in a row for every result
09:06 DaGentooB  does anyone else have this problem?
09:06 kf         chris: ok, correction, I can not login at all and German is empty?
09:07 chris      DaGentooB: ive never used the label maker sorry
09:07 wasabi     dagentoob:  do you have more than 20 labels?
09:07 chris      kf: i hope not, but ill look
09:07 DaGentooB  yeah I do
09:07 kf         chris: I hope it too, but what I see does not look good
09:07 DaGentooB  I am hoping to print about 2000
09:08 chris      http://translate.koha.org/de/
09:08 chris      seems fine to me
09:08 wasabi     dagentoob:  check your log file, while generating your pdf...
09:08 kf         can you check my user?
09:08 kf         I can't login and resetting the password always tells me my email address does not exist
09:08 DaGentooB  it isn't the pdf process that is hanging up... it is the search to add them to the batch
09:09 chris      first does that look ok? ie is the german all there?
09:09 kf         it does
09:09 kf         give me a moment
09:09 chris      i can login fine as me
09:09 chris      looking at your user now
09:09 wasabi     dagentoob you may have UTF characters that dont map to PDF char, in your label-data
09:09 kf         I think I am stupid and my browsers autocomplete landed me on koha-community.org
09:09 chris      yeah, that wont work :)
09:09 DaGentooB  wasabi: the error is No item numbers retrieved for biblio number:
09:10 wasabi     is there an item?
09:10 DaGentooB  it looks like anything after 20 isn't getting retrieved
09:10 DaGentooB  yes I am searching by barcode
09:10 kf         ok, now I only have to find out why my coworker can't edit
09:11 wasabi     pass, i cant look right now...
09:12 wasabi     ... just got back from werk
09:13 DaGentooB  $biblioitemnumber isn't getting populated after the first 20
09:13 DaGentooB  I get the same 3 errors for each item after 20
09:14 DaGentooB  Use of uninitialized value $biblionumber in hash element, Use of uninitialized value $biblionumber in sprintf, and No item numbers retrieved for biblio number:
09:14 wasabi     yr bibdata is bad?
09:14 kf         chris: sorry! It's all working now, I gave her the permissons for German
09:15 DaGentooB  no... for some reason the for loop keeps going through results after the first 20 even though the results for that page have been reduced to 20 at a time
09:15 DaGentooB  wonder what would happen if I just set the for loop to 20.... let me try it
09:17 DaGentooB  ok that did work.... it now only displays 20 per page....
09:18 DaGentooB  but it still won't advance to the next page
09:18 wasabi     the form isnt sending a page=2 arg to the script?
09:19 DaGentooB  well at the top it lists "Results 61 through 80 of 213"
09:19 DaGentooB  so at least that part is going through
09:20 DaGentooB  forgive my perl ignorance but does $iii have something to do with th $i that the for loop is using?
09:21 DaGentooB  wait I see
09:21 DaGentooB  ok so $marcresults->[$i]
09:22 DaGentooB  is pulling the result number from the for loop
09:22 wasabi     theres no current bug for your problem..
09:22 DaGentooB  but the for loop is reset to 0 every time you change a page
09:22 wasabi     http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/buglist.cgi?product=Koha&component=Label%20printing&resolution=---
09:23 DaGentooB  yeah.... I searched before I came here
09:23 wasabi     dagentoob  if  you are keen, you can try to log your problem as a bug...
09:23 wasabi     with good screenshots!
09:23 DaGentooB  k. I will do it once I get it fixed.
09:23 DaGentooB  I think I am on to something here
09:24 wasabi     i need to return some late DVD's now... :/
09:24 DaGentooB  ok
09:24 wasabi     late fees, oww!
09:28 jt         I find this very insteresting
09:28 pastebot   "jt" at pasted "curious" (9 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/47
09:29 jt         is that mean that wis possible to participate in development iwth very basic programming skill on koha?
09:34 paul_p     jt: the koha community is welcoming anyone that want to send a patch ! Of course, your first patches will be examined very carefully & you'll probably have to send them more than once because there will be some changes to do to respect the coding guidelines. But we have 110+ devs, so, feel free to become another one ;-)
09:34 kf         jt: it is open source everybody is welcome to help fix bugs and improve koha
09:35 paul_p     but we have some librarians that now send patches (about templates or things like that), so it's possible for anyone !
09:35 kf         paul_p: I think this sentence is not so nice about librarians ;)
09:36 kf         and I am a librarian...
09:36 paul_p     oups... right ! I wasn't implying librarians are dummies...
09:36 kf         you better not ;)
09:36 paul_p     or you'll kick my ass in NZ ? :D
09:37 kf         something like that yes :)
09:37 paul_p     s/it's possible for anyone/you don't need to be a IT guy/
09:38 kf         :)
09:39 paul_p     (note that anyone understanding s// immediatly get respect from most developers. Could we consider that as a test ? ;-) )
09:39 paul_p     more complex test : s/\/\//\/\/\// :D
09:41 kf         regex?
09:45 kf         why not test the IT folks for basic library knowledge? :)
09:45 jt         lol
09:45 magnus     paul_p: if you are not nice to us librarians we will force you to do bungy jumping on the road trip ;-)
09:46 kf         magnus: I like how your mind works :)
09:46 magnus     hehe
09:47 paul_p     wow... /me start to think about cancelling my trip. too dangerous... :D
09:48 kf         so hard to be nice to us?
09:48 chris      you make it hard by keeping making us deal with MARC :)
09:49 paul_p     chris++ !!!!!
09:49 paul_p     marc-must-die.info, I fully agree !!!
09:50 kf         marc was not my idea...
09:50 magnus     chris: good point. let's come up with a better alternative! ;-)
09:50 chris      thats what every librarian says, then they say, but everyone else is using it, so we have too
09:50 chris      :)
09:51 * paul_p   feel that oneone will move until either LoC, BL or BNF moves.
09:51 paul_p     and those 3 old ladies are very slow to move...
09:52 magnus     chris, pail_p: sad but true
09:52 paul_p     big boats
09:52 magnus     paul_p: and they seem to be preoccupied with RDA...
09:52 kf         Germany had MAB and is moving to MARC
09:52 kf         ...
09:53 magnus     a working prototype of an alternative approach would be sooo good
09:53 kf         lunch time - bbl
09:53 * magnus   wishes someone would try ripping marc out of e.g. koha and replacing it with e.g. RDF, as a research project
09:54 magnus     kf: MAB?
09:54 kf         German bibliographic format
09:54 kf         MAB2 to be more correct
09:54 kf         it's still widely used around here
09:54 chris      yeah, step backwards to go from MAB to MARC
09:55 kf         the problem you have to solve is import - map the new format to marc and all others so you can get data from everywhere
09:55 chris      and then a step into UTTER MADNESS to wedge RDA into MARC
09:55 kf         they managed to get a lot of the mab things into marc21
09:55 chris      i mean AARC2 was complicated enough
09:55 chris      RDA is just mental
09:55 kf         does not make my life easier
09:55 kf         ok, coworkers waiting - see you later
09:55 magnus     and RD is closed
09:55 chris      seriously, i think ppl forget the entire point of a library system
09:55 magnus     have a nice lunch, kf
09:56 magnus     s/RD/RDA/
09:56 chris      adding more unused data to the record isnt going to make the opac work better
09:59 magnus     chris: sounds logical to me!
10:05 * magnus   is off for lunch
10:27 kf         back
10:49 kf         is it ok to change the text under the koha logo? want to change Open-Source integrated library system to the german translation (without integrated) Open-Source-Bibliothekssystem
10:49 kf         found the .psd file in git :)
11:03 magnus     kf: i did the same thing for some koha posters i made earlier this year. i don't think nicomo saw any problems with it, at least
11:04 magnus     @las seen nicomo
11:04 munin      magnus: Error: "las" is not a valid command.
11:05 magnus     @last seen nicomo
11:05 munin      magnus: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must match; --nolimit (1 more message)
11:05 magnus     @lastseen nicomo
11:05 munin      magnus: Error: "lastseen" is not a valid command.
11:05 magnus     @seen nicomo
11:05 munin      magnus: nicomo was last seen in #koha 13 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 50 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <nicomo> hi Amit_G
11:06 Amit       hi nicomo
11:06 Amit       @seen chris
11:06 munin      Amit: chris was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 9 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <chris> adding more unused data to the record isnt going to make the opac work better
11:07 Amit       @seen brendan
11:07 munin      Amit: brendan was last seen in #koha 7 hours, 44 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <brendan> hi Amit
11:07 Amit       @seen amit
11:07 munin      Amit: amit was last seen in #koha 5 seconds ago: <Amit> @seen brendan
11:07 Amit       @seen chris
11:07 munin      Amit: chris was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 10 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <chris> adding more unused data to the record isnt going to make the opac work better
11:07 Amit       @seen amit
11:07 munin      Amit: amit was last seen in #koha 4 seconds ago: <Amit> @seen chris
11:20 kf         magnus: I think nicomo is no longer at biblibre
11:20 magnus     kf: i know, i was just curious about how long he has been away... ;-)
11:20 kf         ah
11:21 kf         Integriertes Open-Source-Bibliothekssystem is too long
11:38 magnus     kf: i used something like "der freie Bibliothekssystem" (in norwegian)
11:39 kf         das :)
11:39 kf         magnus: I think open-source-bibliotheksystem has the important points :)
11:48 greenmang  hello friends... can anybody suggest me an api or z3950 server which can make available Major Journals?
12:19 kf         hi owen
12:19 owen       Hi kf
12:22 magnus     greenmang: how about LOC?
12:57 * magnus   tries to remember if there are more tables than sessions and zebraqueue that does not usually need to be in a mysqldump
13:01 * owen     wonders about the labels* and creator* tables ending with _tmp
13:03 * kf       wonders if she will ever finish the text for the new Koha flyer
13:05 * owen     wonders if everything in #koha today will be in interior monologue
13:05 * jwagner  thinks it probably will be....
13:06 * magnus   agrees
13:07 * magnus   cant't see any *_tmp tables, just tmp_holdsqueue
13:08 tcohen     hi, should we refactor rebuild_(no)zebra as a library?
13:10 tcohen     that way we could avoid the spawning of a new perl process
13:10 tcohen     when implementing a service that substitutes
13:11 tcohen     the reindexing process previously feaured by the (flawed) zebraqueue
13:17 tcohen     hi, should we refactor rebuild_(no)zebra as a library?
13:17 tcohen     that way we could avoid the spawning of a new perl process
13:17 tcohen     when implementing a service that substitutes
13:17 tcohen     the reindexing process previously feaured by the (flawed)
13:17 tcohen     zebraqueue
13:17 owen       We heard you the first time tcohen :)
13:18 tcohen     oewn: oh, sorry I had a hard lock of my computer and was not sure
13:18 owen       Perhaps an email to the developers list would be better?
13:18 owen       There doesn't seem to be anyone here with an opinion :)
13:18 tcohen     too much perl processes reindexing here, hehe
13:18 tcohen     ok!
13:19 * magnus   gotta run
13:25 jcamins    Good morning, #koha
13:27 tcohen     jcamins: hi
13:54 kf         jcamins: hi :)
13:57 * jcamins  doesn't understand what's special about question marks in authority records. :(
13:57 * kf       whispers: fudge...
13:57 chris_n`   owen: I just commented on your comment on bug 3523, but bugzilla informed me that it did not send you an email
13:57 munin      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3523 normal, P5, ---, cnighswonger, NEW, Menu of existing lists limited to 10
13:57 chris_n    fwiw
13:59 owen       Thanks chris_n, I'm still a little confused about how Bugzilla decides when to send me a message
13:59 owen       I don't understand your idea about a list of lists
13:59 chris_n    maybe its a bug... :-Z
13:59 profmathe  hi all
14:00 chris_n    I 'm thinking of some sort of drop-down which would have a scroll bar on one side
14:01 chris_n    allowing all lists to be available but only 10 or so viewable in the dropdown at once... make sense?
14:01 * chris_n  recalls seeing such a creature once, but can't remember where
14:01 owen       And then a link or control to load the next set of lists?
14:02 chris_n    probably so, to avoid the use of js
14:02 pastebot   "jcamins" at pasted "Jared's fudge recipe" (13 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/48
14:03 chris_n    owen: but since we can't use ajax stuff in opac, it might not be doable in a nice and clean way
14:04 jcamins    kf: unfortunately I use both metric and Imperial measurements. :(
14:04 owen       Can't use ajax stuff in the opac?
14:04 jcamins    chris_n: why can't we use ajax in the OPAC?
14:04 chris_n    I thought we wanted to avoid things that had the potential to cause accessibility problems?
14:05 owen       Sure, but it shouldn't keep us from adding features which are useful
14:05 owen       We just need to back them up with accessible fallbacks
14:08 owen       The trouble is the accessible fallbacks aren't as fun to develop
14:09 owen       What about keeping the 10 item limit in the popup, but offer a link to "show all" ?
14:09 owen       Or am I underestimating the number of lists some patrons might have?
14:10 owen       For the "show all" view we could use a list of items with radio buttons instead of a <select>
14:11 profmathe  if anyone has time for 2 quick new user questions that i promise i researched first, i'd really appreciate it...
14:11 wizzyrea   jcamins: that is made of win
14:11 wizzyrea   we always have time :)
14:11 profmathe  sweet
14:11 profmathe  first one's easy: is my dns borked or is wiki.koha.org down?
14:12 owen       http://wiki.koha-community.org
14:12 profmathe  ah
14:12 profmathe  broken link!
14:12 profmathe  thx on that one
14:12 owen       PTFS/Liblime uses koha.org for their own purposes
14:12 kf         jcamins: I can improvise
14:12 jcamins    wizzyrea: I'm glad you like it.
14:13 profmathe  second one i hope will be easy: in a fresh install, what would call nullmailer once a minute and how do i configure it?  i don't see any MTA options in the admin console
14:13 profmathe  i've killed my forwards in nullmailer so my mail admin doesn't shoot me but i'd actually like it to work
14:14 wizzyrea   probably the holds notices?
14:14 profmathe  nothing in catalog, no patrons, brand new install...
14:15 wizzyrea   i'm not sure, sorry
14:15 profmathe  no prob
14:15 wizzyrea   we always have time, not always the answer :/
14:15 profmathe  i might try just installing postfix and forwarding to that
14:15 profmathe  bad form to run home to the product i'm most familiar with, but hey
14:16 briceSanc  hi koha !
14:16 profmathe  just odd that there seems to be no mail option config in the console
14:16 jcamins    Can someone confirm that bug 5155 isn't just me doing something dumb?
14:16 munin      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5155 major, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Question marks cause problems for BiblioAddsAuthorities
14:16 wizzyrea   nah, most people would probably say that postfix is the mailer of choice
14:16 profmathe  well anyway thank you all very much
14:16 wizzyrea   no, special characters bork lots of stuff :(
14:16 chris_n    owen: we could do that; along the ajax lines I was thinking of a call back function tied to a "Next 10" sort of link to refresh just the list
14:16 kf         jcamins: thx for the recipe!
14:17 profmathe  i'll go search the real wiki and get back if i learn anything useful :)
14:17 chris_n    I think that we could reasonably count on some patrons having 20-30 lists
14:18 chris_n    or at least the accumulation of that many between private/public/open lists
14:18 jcamins    kf: you're welcome.
14:22 kf         wb druthb
14:22 druthb     thanx!
14:22 jcamins    My bug list keeps growing. :(
14:23 kf         jcamins: I know that feeling... some days are like everything you touch is falling apart
14:28 nengard    morning all
14:28 nengard    i got to start my day by having a tooth drilled!! everything is up hill from there
14:40 kf1        hi cfouts and brendan
14:41 brendan    hi kf1
14:41 kf1        1?
14:41 kf1        hm
14:42 kf1        I have a clone
14:42 cfouts     good morning
14:45 kf         better
14:46 * druthb   thinks two kfs, or even a kf and a cait, would be fun to have around!
14:46 kf         :)
14:49 jwagner    Don't we already have a kf and a cait?  The more the better, of course....
14:49 owen       It strange, though, we never see them together in the same room... Hmmm....
14:50 brendan    it's like clark kent and superman
14:50 kf         and who is who? :)
14:50 jcamins    Only both have super powers.
14:50 * kf       blushes
15:05 chris_n    heya cfouts
15:08 cfouts     howdy
15:09 brendan    hey there chris_n
15:11 chris_n    hey brendan
15:11 * chris_n  is shuffling server hardware today
15:12 * kf       hides under her desk again
15:13 * jwagner  proposes a new Koha module -- the official Sysadmin/Developer Desk under which we can all hide when needed.
15:13 * chris_n  feels like tossing some of it into the big pond ;-)
15:14 * brendan  according to jwagner and owen - it's inner-monolog day :)
15:15 * kf       thinks this new module would lead to much progress on different other projects
15:15 kf         like the koha cookie flavor :)
15:17 * jcamins  thinks all successful open source projects need their own cookie and fudge flavors
15:18 jwagner    jcamins, don't forget the ice cream!
15:18 jcamins    jwagner: I live in NYC, so I don't have space for an ice cream maker. ;)
15:18 owen       Wait--there's an official koha cookie flavor?
15:18 jcamins    We're working on it.
15:19 owen       Is there a git repo for it? :)
15:19 jcamins    Hm, good point.
15:20 jwagner    Is there an RFC or bugzilla entry for it?
15:27 jcamins    What component should it be filed under?
15:28 wizzyrea   definitely enhancement
15:28 wizzyrea   I am always enhanced by cookies.
15:29 jwagner    Many of us are.  Maybe we also need an official Koha diet....
15:29 rhcl       Double hamburger with cheese
15:29 rhcl       lettuce, tomato pickle onion heavy on the spicy mustard
15:29 jcamins    Yeah, that's definitely the severity, but should it be "Architecture," "Developer documentation," "Holidays," "Tools," "Websites," or something else?
15:32 jwagner    I'd say Developer Documentation, myself.  At least it might inspire me to _do_ some documentation....
15:36 jcamins    Bug 5158
15:36 munin      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5158 enhancement, P5, ---, camins, ASSIGNED, Koha needs its own cookie, ice cream, and fudge flavors
15:36 kf         or developer motivation
15:44 owen       How's this for motivation? Anyone want to guess how many "FIXME's" there are in the Koha code?
15:44 brendan    1,250 ?
15:45 kf         2364
15:45 owen       Luckily you're both too high
15:45 owen       My search found 818
15:46 owen       (excluding JS)
15:47 owen       251 of those are "#use warnings; FIXME - Bug 2505"
15:47 munin      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2505 major, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, enable Perl warnings in all modules and scripts
15:49 owen       I like "FIXME: No Such thing."
15:49 owen       and "FIXME - this is cheating on two levels"
15:49 wizzyrea   ok, is it the circulation history
15:49 wizzyrea   or the reading history
15:49 * wizzyrea likes consistency in labels
15:50 owen       I vote "checkout history"
15:50 wizzyrea   it's reading history in the opac and in the header in the staff client
15:50 wizzyrea   but the tab says "circulation history"
15:52 kf         we use Ausleihhistorie in German, that would be checkout history
15:53 wizzyrea   I can go with that, I just want them to all be the same
15:54 wizzyrea   reading history is more patron friendly
15:54 wizzyrea   circulation history is a little librarianish
15:54 wizzyrea   checkout history probably would make sense to both
15:54 owen       checkout history is materials-agnostic
15:54 wizzyrea   yes, and I think that makes it the winning choice
15:54 wizzyrea   ok, so tell me
15:54 wizzyrea   I have a workflow problem
15:54 wizzyrea   (git workflow)
15:55 wizzyrea   am I supposed to make one change then commit, or make several related changes then commit?
15:55 wizzyrea   < has had this burning question for a while
15:55 owen       The real question is when should you submit the patch
15:56 owen       Because you can commit as many times as you want and then squash all the commits together for one patch
15:56 owen       The key is to limit your changes to one very specific feature or bug fix
15:56 owen       But within that scope you can commit many times
15:57 wizzyrea   oh oh
15:57 wizzyrea   I need to know how to do that
15:57 wizzyrea   squashing
15:57 wizzyrea   owen you'll be pleased to know that I'm using your workflow :P
15:57 owen       git rebase -i origin
15:58 wizzyrea   ah ok that's what that does
15:58 owen       That will show you a list of your commits
15:58 owen       Keep the first one as "pick" and the rest as "s" (for squash)
15:58 owen       You'll be given the opportunity to edit the commit message for the resulting squashed commit
15:58 wizzyrea   omg that would have saved me yesterday
15:59 wizzyrea   >.<
15:59 owen       It took me too long to learn that one myself. It makes life much easier.
16:03 cfouts     in my topic branches I commit after even relatively tiny changes, then squash, just as owen describes.
16:03 cfouts     hard to over-commit using that technique
16:04 owen       We defy stereotypes: We're not afraid of commitment!
16:04 wizzyrea   lol
16:04 * wizzyrea totally is, in this one case.
16:05 wizzyrea   but I will learn
16:07 kf         will try to squash my next patch :)
16:21 wizzyrea   ok
16:22 wizzyrea   another question
16:22 wizzyrea   do you like this change?
16:22 wizzyrea   http://screencast.com/t/Y2U0N2Ez
16:22 wizzyrea   is it helpful to have both current and holding on the detail page?
16:22 wizzyrea   (our libraries think it is)
16:22 wizzyrea   (and they prefer the shortcodes)
16:23 jwagner    @quote add <owen> We defy stereotypes: We're not afraid of commitment!
16:23 munin      jwagner: The operation succeeded.  Quote #89 added.
16:24 owen       +1 wizzyrea
16:24 wizzyrea   I was thinking about it
16:24 jwagner    wizzyrea, the earlier discussion on Bug 3262 was mixed, and leaned toward having a syspref control which appeared.
16:24 owen       I don't really have an opinion about the code vs. full name question though
16:24 munin      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3262 enhancement, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, OPAC needs syspref to show homebranch instead of current location on detail page
16:25 jwagner    I think it could be reframed so that the syspref(s) controlled whether the separate columns appeared so you could have both if you wanted.
16:25 owen       I'd rather show both than have a syspref at all
16:25 wizzyrea   ^^ and he was the main detractor
16:25 wizzyrea   in that discussion
16:25 jwagner    code vs full name I think should be a syspref, though -- a lot of sites won't recognize their codes
16:26 jwagner    I'm fine with having both show by default so long as the template is set up properly so you could hide one or the other with jquery
16:26 wizzyrea   cool beans. I think it's a better solution than a single column
16:26 wizzyrea   and, I would need help with the syspref part for the short vs. long codes
16:26 jwagner    And are you talking the same solution for both staff and OPAC view?
16:27 wizzyrea   no, I think the OPAC only needs to show one column
16:27 wizzyrea   because patrons don't need to know where it is
16:27 wizzyrea   that one probably should be a syspref
16:27 wizzyrea   but I think it should default to home branch
16:27 wizzyrea   owen I think disagrees with that, at least according to the bug
16:27 jwagner    wizzyrea, I was looking at this one last week & had some ideas on it, but I wanted to talk to our developers.  We could continue that discussion on the codes/description part
16:28 jwagner    When I looked at the code, the same part of Search.pm controls & feeds item data to both staff & OPAC search, so doing different settings would get a little involved.
16:28 kf         I vote for description - we use isil as branch code, it's really ugly :)
16:28 kf         ok, time to go home for me - my alter ego will be back later :)
16:29 owen       Our patrons want to know where the book *is*, not where it should be.
16:29 owen       So if you're going to show only one column in the OPAC and we disagree about which one it is, then it should be a syspref
16:30 wizzyrea   so yea that should be a pref
16:30 wizzyrea   so in your library, a book can be shelved in any library?
16:30 wizzyrea   libraries
16:30 jwagner    And that's where it got complicated -- you'd have to separate out the code in Search.pm depending on whether the search was for staff or OPAC.
16:31 jwagner    (always assuming I'm reading that section of code right)
16:31 owen       wizzyrea: Theoretically
16:32 owen       wizzyrea: It's complicated by the fact that automatic transfers don't work properly (i.e. checking in something at the wrong branch and having it be transferred automatically)
16:32 wizzyrea   it shouldn't matter to the search what you show on the detail page
16:33 jwagner    During that part of Search.pm is where it's building the item data, though -- filling in the fields for location, itype, etc.
16:33 wizzyrea   gotya
16:33 jwagner    So to change what gets filled in for branch, you need to specify there
16:34 wizzyrea   our most immediate problem re: locations would be solved by the dual columns
16:34 wizzyrea   incidentally
16:34 wizzyrea   re: shortcode
16:34 wizzyrea   vs. longcode
16:34 wizzyrea   owen maybe you can answer this
16:35 wizzyrea   how do you tell the code which to grab?
16:35 wizzyrea   I looked at it and couldn't figure it out
16:35 wizzyrea   mental map failure.
16:36 wizzyrea   dual columns in the intranet, I mean
16:36 wizzyrea   the opac problem is one we've lived with for a long time
16:38 owen       I don't understand the question wizzyrea
16:40 jwagner    I think I'm back at the same place I was looking at last week, in Search.pm -- current head, line 1541 -- it's doing a check for HomeOrHoldingBranch
16:40 * owen     has to run. bbl
16:40 * jwagner  should keep questionable code snippets for future reference instead of having to look for them again :-(
16:41 wizzyrea   I couldn't find where those template variables were defined
16:41 wizzyrea   to compare how they are being generated
16:42 jwagner    which variable(s)?
16:42 wizzyrea   homebranch vs holdingbranch
16:42 wizzyrea   is there a good tool to help with that kind of thing?
16:42 * wizzyrea pulls out all of the nub questions
16:43 jwagner    from Search.pm, # set item's branch name, use HomeOrHoldingBranch syspref first, fall back to the other one -- whatever is defined in the syspref is going to get set as the homebranch for search results/display
16:43 jwagner    If I'm reading it correctly
16:45 jwagner    Which brings up another question I was troubleshooting last night.  The old syspref description for HomeOrHoldingBranch implies it's only used with Independent Branches:
16:45 jwagner    Used by Circulation to determine which branch of an item to check with independent branches on, and by search to determine which branch to choose for availability
16:45 wizzyrea   mm no
16:45 wizzyrea   it has applications for multibranch non independent too
16:45 wizzyrea   we are non-indy
16:45 jwagner    But it affects transfers when Independent Branches isn't on, and is affecting branch display in searching as above
16:46 jwagner    Syspref description probably needs to be amplified/clarified, then.
16:46 wizzyrea   well that's probably wrong behavior :/
16:46 wizzyrea   as it reads, it should only affect using the circ/fines rules
16:46 wizzyrea   if it does more than that either needs to be documented, or the purpose of the syspref changed.
16:47 wizzyrea   *it either
16:47 wizzyrea   but yea, it's apparently a big mess
16:47 jwagner    I think I'll open a bugzilla on that problem
16:48 wizzyrea   the 3.2 text is as follows: Use the checkout and fines rules of
16:48 wizzyrea   NOTE: This is older than CircControl, but used by some parts of Koha. It will be removed soon.
16:49 wizzyrea   so there may be plans to kill it off.
16:51 jwagner    I saw that too.  Am much puzzled.
16:51 wizzyrea   in regards to where the template variables are generated...
16:52 wizzyrea   you think it's in C4:Search?
16:52 wizzyrea   (which seems TOTALLY far out to me, but I will accept it)
16:53 jwagner    Bug 5159
16:53 munin      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5159 normal, P5, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW, HomeOrHoldingBranch syspref description misleading
16:53 jwagner    wizzyrea, both the opac & staff search scripts call the same C4:Search routine
16:54 * jwagner  is drooling -- lunch just got delivered, so I'm off to eat it :-)
17:25 CGI194     helo?
17:26 wizzyrea   <tap tap tap> is this thing on?
17:26 wizzyrea   oh hai
17:26 CGI194     how are u?
17:26 wizzyrea   well enough, and you?
17:26 CGI194     fine!
17:27 CGI194     i'am new to this room
17:28 wizzyrea   everybody starts somewhere
17:28 CGI194     yap!
17:28 CGI194     u'r from?
17:29 wizzyrea   did you have a question about Koha?
17:29 CGI194     ya
17:30 CGI194     i'am on the way to integrate koha with ldap so do u have an idea if so pls help?
17:30 wizzyrea   I don't, sorry. There might be others that can help
17:30 CGI194     ok thank u!
17:31 reva       hi all, I am looking for answers to a couple of questions: how do you set up where you can tell who worked on a bib record in koha? and what is the command line phrase (with exact syntax) for bulkimporting marc authority files? jcamins: (FYI)-You may recall I had an issue with publisher name (260 $b) showing as links. On the OPAC side it does not show as links, only on the staff side. It is so even in the liblime demo (which makes m
17:32 jcamins    reva: the end of your message got cut off.
17:33 jcamins    In answer to your first question, take a look at the Logs tab under sysprefs.
17:34 reva       Oh I was just saying that the publisher's name showing as a link only on the staff side, not in OPAC; so I guess it is alright. But the place of publication is not showing in the OPAC (remember you said it was your customization; well it seems to be mine too; only I did not do the customizing:)
17:34 reva       Ok, I will look in the logs now.
17:35 jcamins    reva: it's possible that the location has never shown up, and I just never noticed, because that matched my desired behavior.
17:35 jcamins    I've never imported authority records, but perhaps someone else can advise you.
17:35 reva       jcamins: that is okay then. I mean it may not be strict AACR2, but that is ok.
17:36 Amanu      can any body help me on how to integrate koha with openldap ?
17:36 * wizzyrea tries to raise chris_n for that question
17:37 jcamins    Amanu: I believe some people have done this... did you check the mailing list archives?
17:37 reva       ok, maybe chris: or chirs_n or wizzyrea?: how do I import into Koha an authority record I have saved from LC?
17:38 wizzyrea   i'm sorry I don't know
17:38 Amanu      jcamins: no ihaven't!
17:39 wizzyrea   also
17:39 wizzyrea   you may be interested to know that www.koha.org isn't the official webpage
17:39 wizzyrea   the official website is at www.koha-community.org
17:40 reva       wizzyrea: I thought that is what the bulkimportauthority command was for? (I have never had to deal with authorities and technology before.)
17:42 jcamins    reva: I gather the instructions in the script didn't work?
17:43 jcamins    I've never tried because you can only download authority records one at a time from LC. Much less trouble to just enter authorities myself.
17:45 reva       jcamins: I am sorry I did not get what script you are referring to. Also, cataloguing log is turned to ON under sys preferences. So would the Log file be in the directory and I can simply read it as a text file?
17:45 jcamins    reva: under Tools (in the staff client) is the log viewer.
17:46 jcamins    There is a script called misc/migration_tools/bulkauthimport.pl
17:46 jcamins    I have never used it, but I think it is for importing authorities. Isn't that what you're trying to use?
17:47 reva       jcamins: that is what I have also been doing, creating my own? But I thought you could save all the LC authority files (which we got one at a time) together and stage and import it into Koha, no?
17:47 jcamins    reva: no, you can only download one authority record at a time.
17:47 jcamins    It's very painful.
17:48 jcamins    Or did you find a way to download multiple authority records from LC?
17:49 reva       jcamins: I knew that limitation with LC authority files. But can you not append them all in a single file and import them into Koha?
17:49 jcamins    I have no idea.
17:49 jcamins    Maybe. But you'd still have to manually download each one.
17:50 reva       jecamins: I agree, LC is below par with this end of their catalog.
17:51 zen        am doing koha bulk import everything is fine except  it can't display copy number! is there anyone who can help me?
17:52 reva       jcamins: I do not that for a fact either; I was just asking because in Unix you can append files. But I do not know if in the .mrc (is that the extension for a MARC file?) can be handled the same way.
17:53 reva       oh zen: can you tell me how you do bulk import? have you done it with authority files? or only bib records?
17:53 jcamins    I think probably it would be possible, because the MARC format is stream-oriented, but I have never tried.
17:53 jcamins    reva: try running the bulkauthimport.pl script without any arguments.
17:53 jcamins    It will give you instructions.
17:54 zen        only bib records!
17:54 jcamins    You can also try using bulkmarcimport.pl with a -a argument.
17:54 reva       jcamins: I will give it a go. Also is the Log file a txt file?
17:54 jcamins    (instead of -b)
17:54 jcamins    I don't think so. I think maybe it's stored in the database.
17:54 reva       jcamins: I meant I will give the script a go.
17:56 reva       So where exactly would I look for the operator id (id of staff who created/edited) in a record?
17:57 cait       hi #koha
17:59 reva       what is the -b parameter for? (I kind of guess the -a is for all.)
18:00 jcamins    reva: I think -b is bibliographic and -a is authority
18:00 jcamins    Hi cait
18:00 jcamins    It's the same as the patron id.
18:00 cait       hi jcamins
18:01 reva       ok jcamins: -a is for authority, dah:0
18:02 reva       ok, so that is helpful in the training drills so that I address remarks to the correct staff-student.
18:02 cait       jcamins: i think we have a patch somewhere to show place of publicaton in opac
18:02 cait       not sure I send it, but I am sure it was done for our library
18:04 reva       cait: how would I patch (I mean download and inject it into Koha)? Maybe you can find out from your library and let me know, please.
18:05 cait       reva: I can not find out before tomorrow - I am at home now and have limited access to our installations and my files
18:05 cait       but its quite easy
18:06 reva       cait: I was not meaning immediately; but may be even next week.
18:06 cait       you only need to add a subfield to the xslt
18:06 cait       will check for the patch
18:07 reva       oh, I think I understand. is it the xsltdisplay found in the OPAC?
18:08 reva       cait: I will check back with you next week. Thanks.
18:08 jcamins    It will be in MARC21slim2OPACDetails.xsl.
18:08 cait       ok :) I have some xslt things scheduled for next week
18:09 cait       dinner time
18:10 reva       Thanks jcamins: and cait: for your help; bye for now.
18:14 wizzyrea   hmm do we need to add a "browser" field in our bugzilla
18:14 wizzyrea   now that we have at least 3 very popular browsers in use with koha?
18:15 jcamins    Hm, that would make sense.
18:15 jcamins    I'm surprised Bugzilla doesn't provide that automatically.
18:15 wizzyrea   we have an "OS" dropdown
18:16 tcohen     how'd you call a rebuild_zebra library?
18:16 tcohen     C4::Catalog::Rebuild?
18:16 owen       There's a browser compatibility component
18:18 jcamins    owen: yeah, but if how can you tell if you're encountering a browser compatibility problem or a problem in, e.g., the cataloging interface?
18:18 jcamins    Errr... please disregard the extra "if".
18:18 owen       True
18:18 wizzyrea   it would help you replicate too
18:18 wizzyrea   to know what they were using
18:19 wizzyrea   er
18:19 wizzyrea   you = one
18:19 wizzyrea   not just you of course
18:19 jcamins    I can no longer access my catalog from Firefox, so I could easily misidentify a compatibility bug as a functionality bug.
18:20 wizzyrea   even if it's something like "I'm using IE and I can't..." and the answer is "use firefox," at least we'll have that as a diagnostic tool.
18:21 wizzyrea   gmcharlt? master of the bugzilla?
18:26 jcamins    Would other libraries find it useful if Koha optionally checked that each item had a unique location/call#/copy#?
18:29 ebegin     jcamins, it's my understanding that call# doesn't have to be unique... but i may be wrong, i'm not a librarian :)
18:29 wizzyrea   yea, we don't have unique call numbers
18:31 jcamins    ebegin: you are completely correct. However, I would like to know when I'm assigning a duplicate call number.
18:31 jcamins    I was thinking of something that added a message after you created an item "this call number is a duplicate."
18:31 wizzyrea   something like that would almost certainly have to be optional
18:31 jcamins    Controlled by a syspref, obviously.
18:34 jcamins    It's not a feature so urgent that I'm going to do anything about it right now, I was just wondering if anyone else would find it useful.
18:36 ebegin     jcamins, meanwhile, you could create an SQL report stating your duplicate call numbers...
18:37 jcamins    ebegin: ooh, I guess I could do that, couldn't I?
18:37 jcamins    Thanks!
18:39 ebegin     np :)
18:46 ebegin     FROM `items`
18:46 ebegin     GROUP BY itemcallnumber
18:46 ebegin     HAVING COUNT( biblionumber ) >1
18:59 chris      morning
18:59 wizzyrea   mornin
19:00 cait       hi chris
19:04 jcamins    ebegin++
19:04 jcamins    # for pointing out that Koha already provided a solution to my problem
19:10 wizzyrea   is there some trick to modifying the template includes? I made a change and it's not being reflected and It's quite flummoxing to me
19:10 owen       Are you sure you're modifying the right template? You haven't switched languages by mistake have you?
19:11 wizzyrea   well I will double check that
19:11 wizzyrea   but I don't think so
19:11 owen       It wouldn't happen unless you'd installed translations for testing
19:11 wizzyrea   no, it's not the language
19:11 wizzyrea   it's in members-menu.inc
19:11 wizzyrea   I can't change the text from "Circulation history" to Checkout History
19:11 wizzyrea   or
19:11 wizzyrea   rather
19:12 wizzyrea   it's changed, but it's not reflected
19:12 wizzyrea   I've cleared my cache
19:12 wizzyrea   idk what's left to do
19:12 owen       Are you sure there's not also a patrons-menu.inc?
19:12 wizzyrea   well
19:12 * owen     is away from his VM
19:12 wizzyrea   that is a very good point
19:13 wizzyrea   no, I don't think there is
19:13 wizzyrea   patron-search-box, patron-search, patron-toolbar
19:13 wizzyrea   but members-menu.inc is what's being included in the tmpl I'm looking at (readingrec.tmpl)
19:13 ebegin     wizzyrea, make sure you are modifying the right version.  Installed dir vs source dir (depending of your install type)
19:14 wizzyrea   maybe circ-menu?
19:14 wizzyrea   ebegin: also a good idea, i'm pretty sure I'm working in the live dir
19:14 wizzyrea   it's a dev install
19:14 wizzyrea   since changes I made to other templates have been reflected
19:14 owen       Yeah, circ-menu.inc
19:14 ebegin     ok, so it's the live dir then ;)
19:15 wizzyrea   let me look at circ-menu
19:16 wizzyrea   owen++ I think that's it
19:16 wizzyrea   thank you, whew, that was it
19:16 wizzyrea   I thought I was losing my mind
19:16 wizzyrea   aside, I also can't read properly
19:16 wizzyrea   lol
19:17 owen       At one time there were good reasons for having the two includes. I'm not sure if there still are.
19:18 wizzyrea   hmm
19:18 wizzyrea   why do we have both messaging and notices?
19:18 * wizzyrea is picking up lots of rocks today
19:18 wizzyrea   ooh! worms!
19:19 cait       wizzyra: does notices still show all borrower's messages instead only those of the borrower account open?
19:19 wizzyrea   no, it shows only the ones sent to me
19:19 wizzyrea   or the active patron
19:19 cait       ah cool
19:19 owen       Bug 3941
19:19 munin      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3941 major, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Notices Tab on Patron Records Showing All Msgs
19:20 wizzyrea   perhaps we should close that bug, but the original question stands: why both tabs?
19:21 wizzyrea   notices shows everything messaging does, and more
19:22 * owen     saw that bug today but has no notices or messages in his test system
19:22 wizzyrea   notices: http://screencast.com/t/ZDhjYjUxNGY
19:23 wizzyrea   er, messaging
19:24 cait       wizzyrea: I am ot sure it shows all
19:24 wizzyrea   notices: http://screencast.com/t/ZDhjYjUxNGY
19:24 wizzyrea   gah
19:24 wizzyrea   http://screencast.com/t/MGIxYmM2OW
19:25 cait       hm, you are right, but messaging is a bit better to look at
19:25 wizzyrea   well, it depends on what you define as better
19:25 cait       I would like the text to show in a sepaarate window and formatted
19:25 wizzyrea   you mean the content
19:26 cait       ah sorry, yes
19:26 wizzyrea   no need to apologize, I was just clarifying
19:26 wizzyrea   I must have been too tired to remember to return the no cry sleep solution lol
19:27 cait       witout formatting it's hard to tell which items were in the notice
19:27 cait       and with formatting the table gets too big
19:27 wizzyrea   tis true
19:27 owen       So both tabs show basically the same info?
19:27 wizzyrea   I don't have a preference really, I'm just wondering why ^^
19:27 wizzyrea   yea
19:27 wizzyrea   they appear to
19:27 wizzyrea   just one more succinctly than the other
19:28 wizzyrea   I rather like the messaging view
19:28 owen       weird
19:28 wizzyrea   I mean (dangit) the notices view
19:28 cait       it would be better if there was just another column in link in the messaging view to show the content
19:28 cait       ah, now you are confusing me :)
19:28 wizzyrea   I like the verbosity of the notices view
19:29 wizzyrea   it's not like you're going to use that to know what they had checked out, that's what checkout history is for
19:29 wizzyrea   but you would use it to see what notice they got when they claim to have returned an item
19:29 wizzyrea   and got a notice anyway
19:30 wizzyrea   (we have seen that happen when a person returns an item after library hours, then gets the overdue message because their item is in the book drop when the overdues are generated. Boy are they irate.)
19:31 wizzyrea   idk, I'd like to get rid of one of them because they are redundant
19:31 wizzyrea   but I'm not sure which
19:31 owen       We don't even charge fines and patrons are still irate about it.
19:31 wizzyrea   and if they serve separate purposes
19:31 wizzyrea   yea, not many of our libraries charge fines either
19:31 wizzyrea   it just turns out people really don't like getting email
19:32 wizzyrea   I think I'll send something to the dev list about it
19:32 wizzyrea   "uh, what's this about?"
19:32 cait       our libraries all charge fines
19:32 cait       notices are important
19:33 cait       I have to link the fine to the notice (I know, only we want that...) so i like messaging but stilll think the display would look better with a way to see the formatted notice :)
19:33 owen       wizzyrea: I'd be curious what git-blame says about those tabs. It might indicate the right hand not knowing what the left is doing
19:33 wizzyrea   ah, true
19:35 wizzyrea   ...hdl last touched both tabs
19:35 wizzyrea   august last year
19:36 cait       it's been like that for a long time
19:36 wizzyrea   in the same commit, no less
19:36 cait       I think there is bug somewhere
19:45 wizzyrea   ok well I"m not going to touch them :P
19:48 owen       This is interesting. Git says that at one point someone made a commit to remove one of them
19:48 owen       "members/notices.pl and members/messaging.pl are doing the same thing"
19:49 cait       wizzy: meant bug report, sorry, getting late
19:49 owen       The commit was reverted, "Should remove members/notices.pl instead"
19:49 wizzyrea   weird
19:49 owen       ...but obviously no one went back and actually removed notices.pl
19:49 wizzyrea   so, whoever it was never got back to removing notices.pl
19:49 wizzyrea   jinx
19:50 wizzyrea   either way, the various names for reading history have all been changed to "checkout history"
19:50 wizzyrea   :P
19:53 owen       hdl's comment "should remove members/notices.pl instead" refers to the more verbose version right?
19:53 wizzyrea   un moment
19:53 wizzyrea   yes
19:53 wizzyrea   I had to double check.
19:54 wizzyrea   dk what's better, seeing the text of the notice or only being able to say that it was sent
19:54 owen       Isn't more information usually better?
19:54 wizzyrea   well that's what I thought
19:55 wizzyrea   spose we could improve it
19:55 wizzyrea   a little of that js trickery that makes a link to "show contents of this notice"
19:55 wizzyrea   and expands it
19:55 wizzyrea   might be nice
19:56 owen       So *is* Bug 3941 fixed?
19:56 munin      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3941 major, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Notices Tab on Patron Records Showing All Msgs
19:56 chris      And then I had to translate it to circulation history
19:56 wizzyrea   we took a vote earlier >.>
19:56 chris      Checkout is what you do at hotels
19:57 * chris    was reminded of this onsite in christchurch yesterday
19:57 wizzyrea   so does your Check Out tab say "circulate"
19:57 chris      When 2 of the librarians commented
19:58 chris      Issue
19:58 wizzyrea   or "Issue"
19:58 chris      And return
19:58 wizzyrea   aha, so it should be "Issuing History"
19:58 chris      Circulation works fine too
19:58 owen       Chris, when you're release manager you can decree that we change them all back! ;)
19:58 wizzyrea   ^^
19:58 * cait     imagines books as visitors in the library hotel
19:59 wizzyrea   that was very poetic, cait
19:59 cait       ;)
19:59 wizzyrea   really, they'd rather be traveling
19:59 wizzyrea   travelling
19:59 owen       travellling
19:59 chris      Translating works fine
20:00 chris      As long as people don't keep changing their minds
20:00 chris      Its re re re translating that gets old
20:00 wizzyrea   well, these 3 places are now all the same
20:01 wizzyrea   3 places, and 3 different names
20:01 chris      And quit it with the z :)
20:01 chris      Luckily I can regex those out
20:02 chris      If its not zo or ze its an s :)
20:03 wizzyrea   haha
20:04 chris      Wizzyrea: circulation history works for borrowers, issuing history for items
20:04 chris      That's how my librarians like it anyway :)
20:05 chris      I wonder what the en_gb one uses
20:05 wizzyrea   I'm trying to think about how our librarians refer to it
20:05 wizzyrea   when they refer to an item
20:05 wizzyrea   they often refer to "circ history
20:06 owen       Our librarians refer to it as "Oh god you mean it remembers everything they've had checked out?!"
20:06 wizzyrea   well they would refer to both as circ history
20:06 wizzyrea   hehe
20:07 chris      Yeah u need to fix your govt so that's a feature not a bug :)
20:07 wizzyrea   I need to fix lots of stuff.
20:07 wizzyrea   not all of it is attainable.
20:07 wizzyrea   lol
20:07 owen       I'm sure it's more worrisome to librarians than it is to our users
20:07 chris      The anonymise job does erase the history
20:08 owen       ...considering what people put on Facebook
20:08 wizzyrea   oh for sure
20:08 wizzyrea   I was just thinking about how our librarians consider it a feature that they can tell a patron what book they checked out 3 years ogo
20:08 wizzyrea   ago
20:08 wizzyrea   I can't even see my amazon orders that far back
20:08 wizzyrea   which potentially has more relevance than my effing library reading history
20:09 * wizzyrea fumes a little.
20:09 larsw      me, I think it's creepy if libraries keep track of what patrons read
20:09 wizzyrea   ^^ agreed
20:10 larsw      outstanding books, sure, but once a book is returned, the library should forget about it, imho
20:10 jcamins    Amazon keeps track of every page you look at.
20:10 wizzyrea   ^^ I don't like that either
20:10 owen       A lot of patrons would like to be able to check to see if they've read something before
20:10 owen       ...because some of them read so much they can't remember
20:10 wizzyrea   yea, that's our librarians' big argument for keeping the data
20:11 jcamins    I can understand that.
20:11 larsw      owen, they can opt-in to do that, that's fine of course
20:11 wizzyrea   we're all like "but the FBI... blah blah... take your records without telling you.... blah blah"
20:11 owen       Maybe someday we'll find that missing opac-privacy page
20:11 wizzyrea   which is what it sounds like to them
20:11 jcamins    Goodness knows I could never remember everything I've read in the last year.
20:11 owen       (bug 3881)
20:11 munin      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3881 blocker, P5, ---, paul.poulain, NEW, No Page for Opac Privacy
20:11 larsw      if I cared about that, I'd keep the list myself, though, since I get reading materials from so many sources that a library's system would be insufficient
20:12 larsw      but I'll shut up now (hit-and-run commenting, that's me)
20:12 * wizzyrea gets whiplash watching larsw come and go
20:13 wizzyrea   zoom
20:14 wizzyrea   chris do you have a feeling about the notices.pl vs. messaging.pl thing we were talking about (that they both show on the member menu, and show the same thing)
20:14 wizzyrea   (or nearly the same thing)
20:14 jcamins    Important philosophical question for the members of #koha: is open source free like a kitten or free like a puppy?
20:15 * wizzyrea ducks
20:15 * brendan  lions
20:16 owen       Free like a handful of ball bearings
20:16 * brendan  read that too fast :)
20:20 * cait     comes back from washing a mountain of dishes
20:24 richard    hi
20:24 jcamins    So, the concensus is "no one cares"?
20:26 owen       jcamins: http://www.googlefight.com/ ?
20:27 jcamins    Apparently puppies win.
20:27 chris      sorry was my bus stop
20:27 jcamins    Thanks.
20:28 chris      wizzyrea: pick the one that shows more
20:28 chris      jcamins: i answered this question already
20:28 chris      "Free as in kittens is a silly phrase that should die, if FOSS is free as in kittens, proprietary software is free as in an inbred purebreed cat. That costs thousands of dollars in vet bills every year and is slightly retarded."
20:29 chris      http://www.librarian.net/stax/3297/now-thats-how-you-do-a-foss-press-release/#comment-133362
20:29 jcamins    chris++
20:30 cait       lol
20:30 wizzyrea   @quote add <chris> "Free as in kittens is a silly phrase that should die, if FOSS is free as in kittens, proprietary software is free as in an inbred purebreed cat. That costs thousands of dollars in vet bills every year and is slightly retarded."
20:30 munin      wizzyrea: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
20:30 wizzyrea   @quote get 23
20:30 munin      wizzyrea: Quote #23: "<gmcharlt> /msg munin register nick password" (added by wizzyrea_ at 12:25 PM, August 06, 2009)
20:32 wizzyrea   @quote add <member:chris> "Free as in kittens is a silly phrase that should die, if FOSS is free as in kittens, proprietary software is free as in an inbred purebreed cat. That costs thousands of dollars in vet bills every year and is slightly retarded."
20:32 munin      wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.  Quote #90 added.
20:32 wizzyrea   woot
20:33 wizzyrea   @quote remove 90
20:33 munin      wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.
20:33 wizzyrea   @quote add <chris> "Free as in kittens is a silly phrase that should die, if FOSS is free as in kittens, proprietary software is free as in an inbred purebreed cat. That costs thousands of dollars in vet bills every year and is slightly retarded."
20:33 munin      wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.  Quote #91 added.
20:33 wizzyrea   there we go.
20:33 wizzyrea   @quote get 90
20:33 munin      wizzyrea: Error: There is no Quote with id #90 in my database for #koha.
20:33 wizzyrea   @quote random
20:33 munin      wizzyrea: Quote #5: "<jwagner> Why is it every Koha rock I turn over produces a zillion (metaphorical) ants, each with a new question????" (added by kf at 09:13 AM, June 12, 2009)
20:34 wizzyrea   hehe
20:34 jcamins    Have a good night, everyone.
20:34 brendan    @wunder 93117
20:34 munin      brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 24.8�C (1:42 PM PDT on August 19, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 29.85 in 1010.7 hPa (Falling).
20:36 * owen     is still waiting for someone to hook munin's quote database to Bugzilla's quips list
20:41 chris      yeah that would be good owen
20:41 druthb     @quote random
20:41 munin      druthb: Quote #52: "<wizzyrea> Ahh, it's like putting on your slippers" (added by gmcharlt at 03:50 PM, January 28, 2010)
20:43 chris      @quote stats
20:43 munin      chris: There are 83 quotes in my database.
21:15 cait       good night all
21:17 wizzyrea   @quote random
21:17 munin      wizzyrea: Quote #16: "< wizzyrea> i mean, the point of american bacon is to erm, use the belly of the hog (I think)" (added by chris at 05:37 PM, July 17, 2009)
21:18 chris      oh yeah that was the bacon day
21:18 chris      @quote random
21:18 munin      chris: Quote #1: "<pianohacker> resolve, rather, I doubt it needs lotion" (added by gmcharlt at 11:05 PM, May 30, 2009)
21:19 druthb     @quote random
21:19 munin      druthb: Quote #6: "gmcharlt: kf: hold requests are a plot to sell more aspirin ;)" (added by wizzyrea at 12:13 PM, June 16, 2009)
21:29 wajasu     i'm progressing through installing perl module prerequisites for 3.2beta on archlinux but with perl5.12.
21:29 wajasu     it seems Time::localtime is builtin core
21:30 chris      oh, i hadnt seen this before http://bpraweb.puntobiblio.com/
21:31 chris      wasaju: cool
21:36 wajasu     though i've installed Date:ICal the koha_perl_deps.pl -m  still shows it as missing.  Also that HTTP::OAI has a dependency on XML::SAX::Base that conflict with the earlier installed Sax parser. I've just comment out the HTTP::OAI from the makefile.
21:48 wajasu     Unix::Syslog is used by zebraqueue_daemon.pl     Maybe that should be a perl required module?
21:48 chris      no, because that script is deprecated
21:48 wajasu     ahhh
22:13 wajasu     no more wiki.koha.org   ak.a.  http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=encodingscratchpad   (INSTALL.ubuntu and INSTALL.fedora7  refer to this for an install)
22:16 chris      are you installing from git?
22:17 wajasu     i grabbed the beta
22:18 chris      right
22:18 chris      if you have time, you could clone the repo, and send a patch fixing those links
22:19 chris      if not, then report a bug (cos it will scroll out of my scroll buffer here, and never get fixed otherwise)
22:19 wajasu     i'm also installing into an lxc-container, so my distribution is minimal.  then I can run a script to build koha lxc-containers and run/test installs
22:19 chris      cool
22:19 wajasu     ok. i'll write bug.  maybe a patch when I have time.
22:20 chris      cool
22:20 wajasu     no LC_???? thing needs locale set to UTF-8 now?
22:20 wajasu     as its not mentioned in INSTALL.debian
22:32 wajasu     ok. i set my LC_???? environ vars correctly now for my lxc-container.  just need to config mysql apache, then run the webinstaller.
22:39 rhcl       "chris> oh, i hadnt seen this before http://bpraweb.puntobiblio.com/"
22:40 rhcl       OK, I looked up an item in the catalog and then looked at the source code for that page, and saw it was using Koha.
22:40 rhcl       but chris, was there something more obvious to you that indicated they were using koha?
22:43 wasabi     rhcl:  yes, their URL ;)
22:43 wasabi     http://bpraopac.puntobiblio.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=love
22:45 rhcl       harumph
22:46 wasabi     i think chris has a daily automated 'koha' google-search running.
22:47 rhcl       Yea, frankly I don't peruse the world's library catalogs doing searches to see which ones run Koha.
22:47 wasabi     and it often returns surprising results, like this one :)
22:48 wasabi     yep, but google does
22:49 rhcl       Yea, but that's like doing the easy sudoku's--the hard sudoku's are like doing the work yourself, and looking at the code, and are much more rewarding.
22:49 rhcl       like this: <meta name="generator" content="Koha 3.0006010"
22:58 brendan    @wunder 93117
22:58 munin      brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 23.6�C (4:02 PM PDT on August 19, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 15.0�C. Pressure: 29.81 in 1009.4 hPa (Falling).
22:58 brendan    @wunder wellington, nz
22:58 munin      brendan: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 9.0�C (10:00 AM NZST on August 20, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
23:00 robin      that doesn't tell you the wind, which isn't so bad today but is usually quite relevant.
23:20 chris      http://www.stuff.co.nz/4044164/Air-NZs-All-Black-safety-briefing
23:44 wajasu     maybe we need the  all black  koha edition
23:50 wajasu     i've compiled a distribution package for Date::Ical just as for many other perl modules, but after my distribution install, the koha_perl_deps.pl reports its not installed. Hmmm.
23:54 robin      wajasu: $ perl -MData::ICal
23:54 robin      that'll tell you for sure
23:55 robin      (if you get an error it's not installed. If it just sits there its OK and you can ctrl-C out)