Time Nick Message
23:56 robin The nice thing about the git branch method is that they don't get in the way.
23:56 chris time for a tidy up :-)
23:56 robin chris: the work repo has 945 branches, of which 105 are my local ones :)
23:55 chris (delete locally that is, i leave them in the remote repo)
23:55 larsw if one doesn't want to remove the branches, for whatever reason, then renaming might be an option
23:55 nengard very good point
23:55 chris easy peasy pudding and pie
23:55 chris ohh 4 outstanding
23:55 chris git branch
23:54 chris that way, i know what i have still waiting too
23:54 nengard chris - i plan to!
23:54 chris nengard, i delete them when they are pushed into master
23:54 robin nengard: yeah, it's just something you have to get used to, the benefits are well worth it.
23:53 nengard i'm the kind of person who likes to close all unused apps - so it's kind of like that with branches - i don't like having a bunch floating out there - but i understand why i need them :)
23:52 robin nengard: I do that for my own personal projects, it makes life so much easier.
23:35 * larsw is still learning
23:35 larsw takes some time to find out the good workflows with powerful tools like git
23:34 nengard figure if i do it enough it will become second nature - which right now it is not
23:34 nengard oh and chris i took your advice - a branch for each patch
23:33 nengard i just wish i knew more how to fix some of the bigger bugs that are bugging me :)
23:33 larsw nengard++
23:32 chris sweet
23:32 nengard :)
23:32 nengard and wrote another patch :0
23:32 nengard chris - closed
23:29 cait good night all :)
23:29 cait ok, time to sleep here
23:24 chris yeah not a bug, plus its for koha for windows .. ie 2.2.8
23:21 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4299 major, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Enable to insert new date for issuing
23:21 nengard bug 4299 looks like a question - not a bug - anyone agree?
23:17 chris :-)
23:16 nengard on a role - the more tiny patches I write, the more time it frees up for others to write the big ones .... I hope
23:11 chris_n heya mason
23:04 larsw :)
23:04 chris_n nice error message larsw
23:04 chris_n hehe "EEEK..."
23:03 larsw http://liw.fi/coverage-test-runner/ being the test runner I wrote for Python
23:02 chris testing++
23:02 larsw and I'm looking for ways to do that in perl as well, to help koha 3.4 have much better test coverage than it does now
23:02 larsw as a quick re-cap of what chris referred to: I have for Python a setup where code modules have corresponding test modules, and my test runner measures coverage when executing that pair... and even if all tests pass, the test suite as a whole fails unless coverage is 100% (not counting explicitly excluded parts of the code)
22:49 nengard :)
22:46 cait nengard++
22:46 cait nengard#+
22:46 chris cool
22:39 nengard 2 closed -testing the third
22:32 * chris goes to watch larsw demo his automated testing
22:32 chris thanks :)
22:31 nengard going to test
22:31 nengard was getting a popsicle
22:31 chris :)
22:30 * cait hides
22:29 chris have i ruined your evening yet? or do i need to keep going? :-)
22:29 chris confirming if that is still a problem would help a lot
22:29 munin chris: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2003 major, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Circulation page offers no information on why checkouts are blocked
22:29 chris @bug 2003
22:28 chris and bug2003
22:27 chris and you could test and confirm if this still exists
22:27 munin 04Bug 4328: minor, P4, ---, chris, NEW, Possibility to add a supplier with a blanc name
22:27 chris http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4328
22:26 chris you could test and close this one nengard
22:26 munin 04Bug 4448: normal, P5, ---, ian.walls, ASSIGNED, Ampersands in itemcallnumber break XSLT Results display
22:26 chris http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4448
22:25 cait hi nengard
22:25 nengard doing a very general search for bugs I might have the skills to patch since i'm home alone tonight
22:25 cait jsp will keep me awake when deadline is near
22:25 nengard howdy
22:25 chris hi nengard
22:24 chris ahhhh
22:24 cait played singstar, now too awake to sleep
22:24 chris jsp ?
22:24 cait yes
22:23 chris up late
22:23 chris heya cait
22:23 cait hi koha
22:13 libtek That was easy.
22:13 chris :)
22:13 libtek Oh, never mind. I found where I can change it. :)
22:12 libtek Hey all. Is there a way to change a patron from a Patron account to a Home Bound account, or do we have to delete the account and start over?
21:00 mib_mike I'll check out that other site. Thanks!
20:59 mib_mike I looked at that Version Control page, but Koha Revision Control for the public isn't big on explanations.
20:59 wajasu then when I upgrade, the custom stuff can come along kind of like the biblio frameworks do.
20:58 chris too
20:58 chris i like http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/everyday.html
20:57 chris http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
20:57 wajasu what do you think about a way to add an extra site specific xslt stylesheet in the transformation pipeline for the the detail pages via config preferences, so that sites can add customization to formatting without touching installed XSLT.
20:57 chris have you read the tutorial on the wiki?
20:57 mib_mike I really don't understand git is there a resource you'd recommend?
20:54 mib_mike At least that's what I thought.
20:54 mib_mike alpha 2.
20:54 chris http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commit;h=a1336175fd4b07be9b688791d52e998d55743b7a
20:53 chris http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git&a=search&h=HEAD&st=commit&s=4123
20:53 chris because that patch was pushed april 30th, into master and is in alpha2
20:53 mib_mike I like the patch. I pretty much came to the same conclusion myself independently.
20:52 chris yeah alpha or alpha2?
20:52 mib_mike koha-3.02.00-alpha
20:52 chris and no i didnt make that patch, kyle did
20:51 chris mib_mike: what version are you running mib_mike?
20:51 mason and pinched the new sub from 3.2, looks much saner
20:50 mason heh, i just bumped into that bug last nite
20:50 mib_mike When do these patches get integrated?
20:49 mib_mike But that was submitted in March, and I still needed to apply it to my code downloaded last month
20:49 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4123 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Error in checking whether a checkout can be renewed
20:49 mib_mike Bug 4123
20:48 mib_mike I just found a patch you submitted
20:48 mib_mike Happy, but puzzled
20:48 chris hehe
20:48 wizzyrea are you happy or mad at him?
20:48 chris depends who is asking :)
20:47 chris sometimes
20:47 mib_mike chris are you "Chris Cormack"?
20:42 chris back
20:24 mib_mike It's quiet in here
20:23 richard hi
20:06 chrisdroid Morning
20:06 munin chrisdroid: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 11.0�C (7:40 AM NZST on June 03, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Rising).
20:06 chrisdroid @wunder wellington,nz
19:33 wizzyrea those libraries have saved my sorry tush so many times
19:29 * owen avails himself of some sql from the SQL reports library
19:22 hdl_laptop slef still there ?
19:11 cait owen++
19:11 cait not really here, just near laptop :)
19:04 jdavidb welcome back, cait :)
19:04 collum jdavidb somehow figured out my password - dSkyS^
19:01 owen gmcharlt++ # Just the clue I needed to get it working
19:00 jdavidb That's like stating, "the sky is up," wizzyrea. It's just the way things are, so no comment was needed.
18:58 wizzyrea I must try harder.
18:58 wizzyrea sigh
18:58 wizzyrea lol, nobody got that it was "sirsi sucks?"
18:54 * owen investigates
18:54 owen Good one, thanks
18:49 gmcharlt an exaple from the OPAC stylesheet
18:48 gmcharlt ='c']}" title="MARC" rel="gb_page_center[600,500]">MARC View</a></span>
18:48 gmcharlt owen: <span class="view"><a id="MARCviewPop" href="/cgi-bin/koha/opac-showmarc.pl?id={marc:datafield[@tag=999]/marc:subfield[@code
18:48 cait_afk owen: is bibnumer in one of the 999 fields?
18:40 owen <a><xsl:attribute name="href">http://<xsl:value-of select="$OPACBaseURL"/>/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=</xsl:attribute><xsl:attribute name="target">_blank</xsl:attribute>Open in new window</a>.
18:40 owen I got as far as:
18:37 owen ...but I don't know how to get the biblionumber so I can build the correct link
18:37 owen I want to add the "view in OPAC" link, and I figured out how to check the opacbaseurl preference...
18:36 owen Hey, I've been working on cleaning up the staff-side XSL view and ran into a snag
18:36 gmcharlt owen: what's up?
18:33 * owen discovers the "Creators" tab in system preferences for the first time
18:06 owen gmcharlt around?
17:38 * chris_n thinks of ticks when he reads "bugs <re>attached"... ich
17:37 slef now really bbl
17:37 slef cool
17:37 slef one resent
17:34 slef actually, it got through to main list (I usually spot and trim crossposts) so I won't bother
17:33 slef anyone else having interesting times? :)
17:33 slef I'll resend those, but that's a task I didn't need.
17:32 slef life doesn't want me to catch up :-/
17:31 slef
17:31 slef 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.1 <koha-devel@lists.koha.org>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table'
17:16 slef bbl
17:16 slef If you want to see wizzyrea's password, press Alt+F4 now.
16:52 jdavidb rhcl++ #for making me cackle like a hyena.
16:52 rhcl she'll still be able to ssh in
16:52 wizzyrea lol O RLY?
16:52 jdavidb next up, the lobotomy. She can't read my mind, if I lose it!
16:52 wizzyrea hehe
16:51 chris_n lol
16:50 * jdavidb goes and changes several of his passwords, just in case wizzyrea has been reading minds.
16:41 wizzyrea bum Bum BUM!
16:41 wizzyrea and you want to know how I know it.
16:41 wizzyrea ...or, I just typed YOUR password
16:41 cait bye all :)
16:40 wizzyrea ...you all think I really did type my password, don't you
16:40 wizzyrea oh crap
16:40 cait qwerty?
16:40 owen Oh dang, ignore that everyone!
16:40 wizzyrea S1rs!5uCk5
16:40 owen 1234
16:39 * chris_n expects to see wizzyrea's supersecret password typed in the wrong window any moment ;-)
16:39 cait owen: I think I can test tomorrow, if thats ok
16:38 owen cait, I'm working on a patch, maybe you'll be able to test it for me later
16:38 cait owen: sorry, I have to leave now, plz let me know if you have an idea where the problem is
16:34 cait owen: they are all really similar
16:31 wizzyrea sorry, wrong window
16:31 wizzyrea sigh
16:31 wizzyrea oh that's way not right
16:31 wizzyrea www.facebook.com
16:29 owen Perhaps the single quotes nested within double quotes...
16:26 owen (Not that I can see why the standard construction doesn't work in these cases)
16:24 owen cait: Are the examples which don't work all inside an "onclick" attribute?
16:17 wizzyrea idk about the 2nd
16:17 wizzyrea yea, you will want to ask him about reassigning bugs to you
16:17 slef wizzyrea: thanks
16:16 slef wizzyrea: I think I still need chris to reassign reporter, or will adding myself to cc in bulk achieve the same?
16:16 cait jcamins: thx! just preparation for the xslt part, will start with that next week when back at work
16:15 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4506 enhancement, P5, ---, katrin.fischer, NEW, Add support of record linking by record control number in $w
16:15 jcamins_ cait++ # For her work on bug 4506
16:14 wizzyrea slef: I think I found your bugs. http://bit.ly/aYdoob
16:14 cait I had no idea how to fix it
16:14 cait ah, but its still NEW
16:13 cait I think because I marked it I18N?
16:12 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4504 normal, P5, ---, frederic, NEW, Confirmation messages in opac account not translated
16:12 cait hi, I wanted to ask you to take a look at bug 4504 - but I see now that its assigned to fredericd
16:12 owen Yes
16:12 cait owen: around?
16:02 slef using hdl_laptop's koha-fr instead because that's what's on mailman
16:01 slef if you want to see for yourself
16:01 slef curl -I http://lists.koha.org/pipermail/koha-devel/
16:01 slef lists.koha.org is also sending 302 Found rather than 301 Moved Permanently which I understand to be keeping options open
15:59 slef com or fr?
15:59 slef hdl@bib...?
15:58 hdl_laptop e
15:58 hdl_laptop slef: I do pleas
15:56 slef ok, will do - who wants cc?
15:56 jdavidb sending mail to cfouts@ptfs.com would probably work. He'd be the one to take care of it.
15:55 slef oh, they've done something silly with http://lists.koha.org ?
15:55 hdl_laptop So we might ask PTFS to do so...
15:55 slef RewriteRule (.*) http://lists.koha-community.org$1 [R=permanent,QSA,L]
15:55 slef RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} lists.koha.org
15:55 slef RewriteEngine on
15:54 hdl_laptop we are in control of the site, but unfortunately not of the domain.
15:54 slef hdl_laptop: can't we redirect archive pages to the exact page?
15:54 owen hdl_laptop: It means that if someone finds a link to the mailing list archive in goodle they can't click through to read the original thread. They get redirected to the front page
15:53 hdl_laptop slef: yes. What is the problem ?
15:52 slef damn apostrophe next to enter ;-)
15:52 slef mailman's front page
15:52 slef hdl_laptop: are you in control of the lists.koha.org -> lists.koha-community.org redirect? It seems to be redirecting the whole archive to mailman
15:50 wizzyrea chris_n: it's not difficult to crash firefox with tabs. I have a coworker who managed to do it almost every day. So she switched to chrome, and now she can open zillions of tabs and never crash.
15:48 munin chris_n: The operation succeeded. Quote #76 added.
15:48 chris_n @quote add <owen> yes, it's all part of my plan to take over the world.
15:47 owen yes, it's all part of my plan to take over the world.
15:47 * chris_n managed to open enough tabs in Firefox to crash it the other day
15:47 chris_n owen++
15:47 * owen has managed to build a web page which crashes Firefox when he tries to print it
15:44 nengard http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:List
15:42 nengard it's in the mediawiki documentation :) you know i'm all about the documentation
15:42 nengard without any spaces before it
15:40 wizzyrea *
15:38 slef Argh! How do you persuade mediawiki to do a bullet list? Anyone who wants to, please edit http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_Meeting,_June_2_2010#Attendees
15:33 schuster nengard - I'll find it thanks.
15:01 nengard did you find it - or do you need me to get you a number?
15:01 schuster Oh thanks nengard... didn't know there was a bug! Should have looked.
14:56 nengard schuster - i have - and it doesn't work - but that might be FF 3.6 as I say in my bug report
14:55 schuster ok thanks.
14:54 wizzyrea i have not yet
14:52 schuster wizzyrea - did you have a chance to "test" the firefox plugin for circ with 3.2?
14:42 * chris_n reads the log
14:42 chris_n tnx
14:42 gmcharlt sorry to hear about the strep
14:41 gmcharlt hi chris_n
14:41 * chris_n is trying to kick a persistent case of strep throat :-P apparently acquired while on vacation
14:40 slef sorry, first week of May I mean :-/
14:40 nengard chris_n we understand- well I do :) hehe
14:38 slef owen: but what's done is done.
14:38 slef owen: or just feed email addresses into the account creator so people get three days to complete the creation form.
14:37 slef wizzyrea: yeah, I'm about at the first week of April with list emails, though
14:37 owen I wonder why we couldn't have automatically created accounts with random passwords and had people use the password-recovery
14:37 chris_n a trip to the Drs office trumped it unfortunately
14:37 wizzyrea (create the new bugzilla accounts)
14:37 * chris_n offers regrets for missing the meeting this morning
14:37 wizzyrea he did give us over a week to do it :/
14:37 nengard wizzyrea and i worked on the links for the newsletter and they are all better now
14:36 nengard slef the db knew our email addresses - but chris couldn't copy over our accout info - login & password, so we had to create an account - you can't assign a bug to someone who doesn't have an account
14:34 slef wizzyrea: are you able to edit the strange character out of the start of http://koha-community.org/bugs-koha-community-org/ please? I can't edit that one.
14:33 slef The bugs db knew our email addresses, so I'm a little sore, but we are where we are.
14:33 slef I've emailed the list. I suspect this will become a FAQ.
14:33 wizzyrea what she said
14:33 wizzyrea ^^
14:32 nengard cause he kept notes of who was the assignee
14:32 nengard or you can search full text for your email
14:32 nengard you need to talk to chris to see if he can get those bugs asssigned to you
14:32 nengard to the default assignee
14:32 nengard if chris couldn't find your account then he reassigned bugs
14:32 nengard slef you have no bugs because you had no account
14:31 wizzyrea slef: you might try looking just for mjr
14:22 slef Looking at mailing list archives to see if this has been covered.
14:22 slef OK, I have no bugs.
14:22 slef "Status: NEW, ASSIGNED, REOPENED * Reporter: mjr@ttllp.co.uk = Zarro Boogs found."
14:19 schuster Hey Owen...
14:19 slef wunderground.com used not to find us as part of the UK :)
14:19 slef oh, that's changed
14:19 munin slef: The current temperature in Weston-Super-Mare, United Kingdom is 19.5�C (3:20 PM BST on June 02, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 30.14 in 1020.5 hPa (Steady).
14:19 slef @wunder Weston-super-Mare, United Kingdom
14:18 munin slef: The current temperature in Weston-Super-Mare, United Kingdom is 19.5�C (3:20 PM BST on June 02, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 30.14 in 1020.5 hPa (Steady).
14:18 slef @wunder Weston-super-Mare, SOMERSET
14:18 owen Hi schuster
14:17 munin schuster: The current temperature in Hunter's Creek - KE5VBO, Frisco, Texas is 31.8�C (9:19 AM CDT on June 02, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: 20.0�C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010.0 hPa (Rising).
14:17 schuster @wunder 75035
14:17 munin tomascohen: The current temperature in Cordoba, Argentina is 10.0�C (10:00 AM ART on June 02, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Windchill: 7.0�C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Falling).
14:17 tomascohen @wunder Cordoba, Argentina
14:14 slef wonder what's caused this... I'm sure I've done internal links on my blog before
14:13 nengard so it's just a bit weird ...
14:13 slef indeed
14:13 nengard which is a bit much
14:13 nengard unless i put the full text of the newsletter on the home page as it's published
14:13 slef wow
14:13 nengard and this is the only solution
14:13 nengard when we started
14:13 nengard wizzyrea and i went through all options
14:13 nengard nope
14:13 slef does ...2010/#present"> not work? (with a /)?
14:12 slef not from front page to body
14:12 nengard cause the TOC appears on a page by itself
14:12 nengard doing just #present won't work
14:12 nengard yeah that's the only way we could get those links to work
14:12 slef nengard: links are like <a href="http://koha-community.org/koha-newsletter-volume-1issue-5-may-2010#present"> instead of simply <a href="#present">
14:12 slef nengard: it's still behaving a bit oddly for me, reloading it on each click.
14:10 slef will check as soon as I find the window again :)
14:10 slef np
14:06 nengard i was pretty sick last month and rushed the newsletter
14:06 nengard it was missing anchors in the code
14:06 nengard slef try now
14:04 slef looked like maybe missing / but I can look closer if you can fix it
14:04 nengard hmmm - will check
14:04 nengard i do the newsletter
14:04 slef the open day one didn't work for me
14:04 nengard slef - i found that the first 2 don't work - but the others do
14:01 slef found http://koha-community.org/bugs-koha-community-org/ - wonder if the strange character at the start stopped it appearing in my feedreader :-/
14:01 owen Don't know... wizzyrea online?
14:00 slef known bug?
14:00 owen Yes
14:00 slef Anyone else find that links from the table of contents in http://koha-community.org/koha-newsletter-volume-1issue-5-may-2010/ don't work?
13:59 owen I think chris can fix it
13:58 slef ok, that explains it. Thanks. What happens about bugs assigned to my old username?
13:58 owen jwagner had to go through this process too, but it can be corrected
13:58 owen Yeah, chris sent out an email I think
13:58 slef I'm a bit behind with mailing lists.
13:58 slef No. Didn't know I had to.
13:56 owen Did you register in the new Bugzilla before the bug migration?
13:56 slef yep
13:55 owen slef, on Bugzilla?
13:54 slef OK, did I miss something? :)
13:54 slef "There is no user named 'mjr@ttllp.co.uk'."
13:53 slef "The username or password you entered is not valid."
13:52 nengard now you all have to do the same with your bugs :)
13:52 nengard updated even more
13:52 nengard done! I have gone through all of my bugs and closed like 30 of them
13:50 hdl_laptop slef: yes but sometimes happens.
13:48 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4499 normal, P5, ---, katrin.fischer, RESOLVED FIXED, Javascript erorr messages not translatable
13:48 cait I think I confused my branches at some point. I wrote the patch for bug 4499.
13:46 slef That's a strange conflict, though, only being in whitespace
13:46 slef :)
13:45 cait it worked! slef++
13:44 cait will try that, thank you!
13:43 slef ends up looking like http://pastebin.com/VL1UFb29
13:43 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4499 normal, P5, ---, katrin.fischer, RESOLVED FIXED, Javascript erorr messages not translatable
13:43 slef then delete the ===== to the >>>>> BUG 4499: line and everything between
13:43 slef To favour HEAD, delete the <<<<<<< HEAD:... line
13:42 slef looks like a null change... only whitespace, perhaps?
13:42 cait thx a lot
13:42 slef looking
13:40 cait slef: can you take a look at the code plz? I dont know what to do with it http://pastebin.com/93kFR0k1
13:38 cait ok, found them
13:37 cait I see no markers in the file :(
13:32 slef or -Xours if you want to prefer the current branch
13:31 slef (merge, recursive strategy, resolve conflicts by preferring their version)
13:31 slef another way is to "git merge -s recursive -Xtheirs" but I can't remember if you can do that after reaching a conflict
13:31 cait ok, lets have a look at the file
13:30 slef there are slicker ways to do it, with git mergetool and similar, but you don't need to
13:30 slef it's no harder than editing the file ordinarily
13:30 cait never done that :(
13:30 slef search for <<<< to find the start of the conflict
13:29 slef if one file, edit the file and resolve manually
13:29 cait one file
13:29 slef one change or one file?
13:29 cait and causes my problen now, because I wrote a patch for that
13:29 cait I just want him to ignore one change that got in there by accident
13:29 slef yep
13:29 cait butwith git reset I would loose all changes to the other files?
13:27 slef other than that, tell your merge tool to use master where there is a conflict
13:27 hdl_laptop git reset --hard ORIG_HEAD
13:27 hdl_laptop git reset --hard HEAD
13:20 cait how do I tell git, use master and avoid my changes?
13:19 jdavidb howdy, kmkale! :)
13:18 kmkale hi jdavidb
13:15 cait oh, my first merge conflict
13:14 jdavidb hi, cait! :)
13:14 cait good morning jdavidb :)
13:14 cait bye :)
13:14 KingNAMS well, gotta go! talk to you all later
13:13 KingNAMS cait: ok, thanks...I just signed up the other day but have just been reading so far
13:12 cait KingNAMS: ah, I m from Germany. :) perhaps you may want to introduce yourself on the mailing lists too.
13:09 KingNAMS cait: Alabama
13:09 owen (although it may not help if it's an expensive font)
13:09 cait KingNAMS: where are you located?
13:08 owen But I'll bet she knows
13:08 owen If Rachel ever told me what the font is I've forgotten, and I can't find the info in my email archive
13:08 owen For some reason that logo doesn't *precisely* match the OPAC one, but I'm not sure where the differences came from
13:08 nengard thanks
13:07 owen misc/interface_customization/koha3-staff-client-logo.svg
13:07 nengard sorry that was for owen - where is the svg
13:07 nengard where is the svg?
13:06 nengard welcome KingNAMS
13:06 KingNAMS thanks!
13:06 owen nengard: The svg version of the staff client logo would be a better place to start if you want to roll your own
13:06 cait hi KingNAMS and welcome
13:06 KingNAMS Hi all...I'm new to Koha (and linux as well to be honest) but I'm learning! I just wanted to introduce myself to the community!
13:05 nengard http://wiki.koha-community.org/w/images/Koha-logo-black-and-white.jpg
13:05 nengard or maybe i can recreate it using the big original logo I have
13:05 nengard if so I can probably recreate it
13:05 nengard do we know what the Koha font is?
13:04 nengard we'll want something with layers that's easy to edit the bg on
13:04 nengard owen - i on the other hand ... did forget :) hehe
13:04 owen I'm trying to figure out the best way to recreate it and what format to share it in
13:04 owen Oh by the way nengard, I didn't forget your question about the OPAC logo image, but I did decide that the original is lost
13:03 nengard i'm through 140ish and have about 60 more to go!
13:03 nengard which is why you're getting so many emails from me
13:03 nengard owen - i don't remember seeing one scheduled - but gmcharlt asked us all to go through our bugs and close the ones we can
13:00 owen I haven't read through the meeting log yet... Did we schedule a bug-squashing session?
12:45 cait good night chris
12:45 chris cyas later
12:45 chris right, i better get some sleep
12:41 jwagner Never mind -- problem is more with having independent branches on than with lack of superlibrarian privileges. Sigh.
12:38 jwagner If the syspref AllowHoldPolicyOverride, it should allow staff to override & place a hold, regardless of whether the staff is a superlibrarian, correct? So long as staff person has permissions to do circ?
12:37 cait I think we should talk about release schedules, but concentrate on finishing 3.2 now
12:37 cait morning jwagner
12:37 jwagner Morning, folks.
12:35 * owen recalls the release-schedule problem happening for the release of 3.0 as well
12:34 chris :)
12:26 kmkale yeah chris++ but would have loved to have a sneak peak ;)
12:26 cait chris++
12:23 chris so we can release
12:23 chris and ignore the boring fix the bugs stuff
12:22 chris its all to easy to get excited about new stuff
12:22 chris im delaying it to post 3.2
12:20 kmkale chris: anything further about that fastcgi irc chat?
12:18 nengard I don't mind the doubles cause it's gmail and it puts them in a thread
12:18 chris and get mail for bugs im assigned to
12:18 chris i just read the archives
12:17 chris if you dont want a double up, yep
12:16 owen Hm... so if I'm subscribed to the list I should turn off all Bugzilla emails
12:16 chris which is pretty handy
12:16 chris owen: means the mailing list gets an email when the bug is changed
12:15 nengard thanks chris - off to find it
12:15 chris theres a syspref for it nengard
12:15 nengard hey - is it just me or were we used to place holds on multiple items via the search in the staff client before? that option isn't showing for me anymore
12:15 owen What is the purpose of adding koha-bugs as the QAContact?
12:14 nengard owen - sorry about that - but some of the more recent emails are for you :)
12:14 slef owen: sorry to miss you
12:12 owen Sorry to miss the meeting folks, that meeting time is pretty much the worst possible for me.
12:12 cait you can delete most of them ;)
12:11 cait batch edit
12:11 owen Whoa, hello Bugzilla emails.
12:09 cait gmcharlt. be careful :)
12:09 nengard of course it means lots of emails :)
12:09 gmcharlt nengard++
12:09 nengard gmcharlt - i'm on a roll :) closed a lot of bugs so far this AM - glad to see so many were fixed even though they weren't marked at patched :)
12:08 * gmcharlt is heading out now, off to a library guarded by a dinosaur
12:04 cait and im not good in managing/merging branches yet, so happy to have them send
12:02 cait would make my life easer if they got in, but I can understand if they have to wait till 3.4 :)
12:02 cait ok, thx, will send them today
12:01 gmcharlt cait: just go ahead and send them - if I don't accept them for 3.2, they will be pushed to a topic branch for inclusion in 3.4
12:01 cait and the second add an index record-control-number on those $w fields
12:01 cait except german, because I just sent a patch for that, would do a follow up
12:01 cait the first one is adding $w subfields to all marc21 frameworks, including all existing translations
12:00 cait I have two patches ready but not sure what to do with them
12:00 cait sorry for bugging you
12:00 cait hi gmcharlt
11:59 gmcharlt hi cait
11:57 slef I think my next big event is http://www.congress.coop/ in Plymouth 25 June.
11:56 magnus thd: i'll keep my ear to the ground
11:56 thd magnus: I would appreciate any notes which you may take at ELAG about various national plans for RDA implementation.
11:55 * jwagner is sorry to have missed the meeting :-(
11:55 cait me too, but cant
11:55 hdl_laptop id love too
11:55 chris id love to say yes :)
11:53 magnus thanks folks! before everybody dissapears: is anyone here going to ELAG in Helsinki next week and interested in some kind of koha meetup?
11:53 cait gmcharlt: still around?
11:51 larsw thanks and bye
11:51 slef thanks all
11:50 hdl_laptop thanks slef and gmcharlt
11:50 reed g/nite
11:50 vokalrcp ciao
11:50 gmcharlt ok, thanks everybody
11:49 kmkale cool
11:49 gmcharlt kmkale: that's why we've mostly been alternating between 10:00 UTC+0 and 19:00 UTC+0
11:49 Colin +1
11:49 larsw +1
11:49 magnus +1
11:49 hdl_laptop +1
11:49 chris ok for me
11:49 thd +1
11:49 davi +1
11:49 tajoli +1
11:49 vokalrcp +1
11:48 gmcharlt Wednesday, 7 July at 19:00 UTC+0 ?
11:48 hdl_laptop and 17PM here...
11:48 gmcharlt let's try this again
11:48 larsw or did I do spontaneous time travel again?
11:48 * gmcharlt also can't read a calendar
11:48 kmkale ;)
11:48 chris 15 UTC is 3am here kmkale
11:48 larsw wed 4 july? isn't 4 july a sunday?
11:48 * gmcharlt turns in his US citizen's card ;)
11:47 vokalrcp You mean the 14th?
11:47 * gmcharlt blinks
11:47 Colin Don't you folks want to party or something on the 4th
11:47 thd gmcharlt: As you know, that is a national holiday in the US.
11:47 kmkale :(
11:47 kmkale 19:00 is half past midnight here
11:47 kmkale cant we make it like 15:00 UTC?
11:47 vokalrcp +1
11:46 davi to me.
11:46 davi +1
11:46 gmcharlt ok, so moving on to setting the time of the next meeting - Wednesday, 4 July at 19:00 UTC+0 ?
11:46 hdl_laptop ok
11:45 gmcharlt if BibLibre is willing to set that up, I'm happy with that
11:45 reed slef+
11:45 slef and put an SMTP error with that link on info@koha-community.org ideally
11:44 Colin +1
11:44 slef +1
11:44 davi +1
11:44 gmcharlt the main Koha mailing list
11:44 cait koha
11:44 davi no info@ ?
11:44 davi what list should they choose?
11:44 davi and what if the want to contact via email?
11:44 cait +1
11:44 thd +1
11:43 vokalrcp +1
11:43 larsw +1
11:43 hdl_laptop +1
11:43 chris +1
11:43 davi +1
11:43 kmkale +1
11:43 tajoli +1
11:43 magnus +1
11:42 reed +1
11:42 tajoli IMHO is better to replace info@koha.org with link to comunity site
11:42 gmcharlt so, howabout this for a vote: replace references to info@koha.org with a link to http://koha-community.org whereever they appear?
11:42 gmcharlt and just simply replacing references to info@koha.org in the code and other places with inks to the website
11:41 thd gmcharlt: your suggestion on the wiki meeting agenda was for an autoresponder if I undertstood.
11:41 gmcharlt but I'm just as happy not having an info@ address
11:41 reed can't we use computers for that?
11:41 gmcharlt I fully expect that this would be a low-volume list
11:41 reed sounds labour intensive
11:41 davi It is the usual "information" point
11:41 gmcharlt as I suggested, proper response is to answer the question, but also redirect the questioner to other forums for their question
11:41 davi to be redirected-guided as per need
11:40 gmcharlt thd: it's never been a newbie zone as such; just a single email address that somebody who is completely unfamiliar to Koha can email for general information about the project
11:40 thd I agree with reed's point about the hazard of creating a ghetto if a mailing list for newbies is intended.
11:40 chris thats fairly simple
11:40 reed just seems clunky
11:40 chris if there is no info@ address, they cant mail it
11:39 reed also - I don't feel as strongly about this as it may appear
11:39 davi simple design does not cope with complex reality
11:39 reed agree, just not that that's a good thing
11:38 davi is*
11:38 reed seems better to keep things simple
11:38 davi that is what info@ if about
11:38 reed by "silo" -- a separate mailing list, would create a ghetto of newbie info
11:38 davi anyone can reply, as in current way
11:38 slef davi: data in, nothing out
11:37 reed slef, that's be a cool end of life scheme
11:37 davi reed, describe "silo situation"
11:37 kmkale kill info@ ++
11:37 reed i propose we not have an info@ address because it creates an possible silo situation
11:37 slef reed: is your proposal best as: reject it with an SMTP error saying "please see http://KOHALISTWEBPAGE" ?
11:37 davi you know
11:37 davi name format to show it is not public archive
11:36 thd gmcharlt: You suggested including private in the list name. What is intended by private?
11:36 davi good being it set private
11:36 slef gmcharlt: alternative proposal from reed
11:36 gmcharlt the main reason I brought this up in the first place was because an info@koha.org existed, but only had limited distribution
11:35 reed slef, agree, should kill info@
11:35 * mason says 'hi', just got home...
11:35 slef reed: redirecting private email to a public-archive list without warning seems a bit rude.
11:35 thd What is the equivalent Debian list named?
11:35 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: anybody who cares to respond to such emails
11:35 reed slef, the koha mailing list
11:35 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: who should be subscribed to that list ?
11:35 gmcharlt proper response of people subscribed to that list would be to respond, but more importantly to direct the newbie to the appopriate forums
11:35 slef reed: existing scheme?
11:35 kmkale i thought hats what koha@ was for..
11:34 reed yeah, who's answering these mails? and why not use the existing schemes?
11:34 gmcharlt thd: the function is to provide a point of contact for a new user to ask basic questions
11:34 thd gmcharlt: what is the function of such a list?
11:34 hdl_laptop ok
11:33 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: paul_p: on to you: can you go ahead and set up such a mailing list and have info@koha-community.org forward to it?
11:33 davi name are good. I like mine
11:33 slef I don't care about name. Whoever creates it can pick.
11:33 cait koha-info-private++
11:33 gmcharlt ok,
11:32 davi koha-info-private@ ++
11:32 davi ok
11:32 chris we arent even the most important part
11:32 chris the community isnt just the developers davi
11:32 slef larsw: too much time around debian?
11:32 slef just so we don't necessarily get a newbie piling into koha-info and sending loads of adverts and then going "but no-one told me"
11:32 thd davi: larsw was intending to be humorous if I understood correctly
11:32 davi I propose the name of that list be "koha-devel-private" in pro of Koha developers, the community.
11:31 gmcharlt (sorry davi, this isn't really for development purposes)
11:31 gmcharlt then I suggest it be called koha-info-private@lists.koha-community.org
11:31 slef once it emerges, that is
11:31 gmcharlt OK
11:31 davi private
11:31 davi new mailing list++
11:31 slef gmcharlt: yes, I think a new list is the best of the options listed, with a basic documented-on-wiki manner of replying.
11:30 davi larsw, too much bureaucracy , the above proposal
11:30 larsw (sorry); more seriously, I suggest forwarding info@ to webmaster@ until such a time as it becomes an undue burden on the webmaster
11:30 thd reed++
11:30 davi gmcharlt, koha-devel-private (new non-public mailing list)
11:29 larsw are accurate; all companies listed on the support provider list are eligible to provide one candidate for the committee
11:29 larsw I suggest we have a committee to receive the e-mails, and have a a committee election every three months, using the condorcet system; the committee will be required to provide bi-weekly summaries of all mail recevied by info@, removing any names and other information that is sensitive, using their best judgement; to make sure the committee behaves, we should also have a randomly selected auditor verify that randomly selected committee reports
11:29 gmcharlt davi: koha-devel isn't quite right for this purpose - geneally spekaing, somebody who uses the info@ address is a librarian thinking about Koha and wanting basic information
11:29 thd info@* is a spam magnate
11:29 reed that dilutes the normal list
11:29 davi gmcharlt, ++
11:28 gmcharlt of the options listed, my preference would be to have it go to a new mailing list that is not publicly archived, but which anybody can subscribe to and feel free to respond to
11:28 slef has anyone written a semi-auto-responder yet? :)
11:28 davi koha-devel-private (new mailing list)
11:28 davi agrs, spam :(
11:28 reed agree
11:27 slef I've two concerns: debian-style surprising of naive emailers by having their email address appear in a public archive; and auto-responding to spam that gets past the filters.
11:27 davi because that is the koha community
11:27 davi koha-devel
11:27 reed i think it's weird to have
11:27 gmcharlt where should it go?
11:26 gmcharlt my main question: assuming that we want to continue to have info@koha-community.org go somewhere
11:26 gmcharlt I added the info@ item
11:26 gmcharlt moving on
11:26 gmcharlt ok, then for now - action item is to put this to the mailing list
11:26 thd I suggest we make no change to the policy agreed at the previous meeting until the wide community votes on the issue
11:25 davi I would keep current list up to it be fixed
11:25 reed (for what it's worth I may have changed my mind about this link back req)
11:25 slef leave them for volunteers to approach and challenge as/when reasonable?
11:25 gmcharlt grandparent them in? clear the vendor listing and ask everybody to resubmit requests?
11:24 gmcharlt what do we do about current listings?
11:24 gmcharlt and this may well have to end up on the mailing list
11:24 gmcharlt here's the second part
11:24 slef gmcharlt: was there a second part, or do you want to move on to address info@koha now?
11:24 gmcharlt thd: I agree - in this case, I would prefer that the final vote take place on the mailing list, particularly as, given the time of this meeting, we're discussing this in the absence of wizzyrea
11:22 davi ack
11:22 slef as I understand it
11:22 slef davi: we're already clear to do that. Just add time.
11:22 thd hdl_laptop: do you mean that if we vote, subscribers to the list serve should be invited to vote on the issue specifically?
11:22 davi What about the listing redesign?
11:21 tajoli +1
11:21 thd 0
11:21 hdl_laptop 0
11:21 hdl_laptop hi jdavidb
11:21 larsw -0
11:21 chris 0
11:21 Colin definitely vote 0
11:20 hdl_laptop I think that if a vote occurs, it should also be presented to the koha-list.
11:20 davi +1
11:20 gmcharlt as far as my own vote is concerned: 0
11:20 kmkale +1
11:20 vokalrcp gmcharlt: +1
11:20 slef It's verified by finding the link, by anyone handling the listing, reverified on demand and passed to the same process as a listing where "X no longer offers koha services".
11:20 gmcharlt if challenged, to become a matter of public debate
11:19 davi so soft
11:19 davi chris, verified on demand if needed
11:19 reed chris, enforcement department is separate
11:19 gmcharlt Colin: verification by the current webmaster, wizzyrea
11:19 slef gmcharlt: +1
11:19 chris and how often is it verified
11:19 gmcharlt that the vendor's page listing their Koha services must have the link back
11:19 davi gmcharlt++
11:19 Colin and how is this verified and by whom?
11:19 gmcharlt scratch that
11:18 gmcharlt merely that the vendor's page listing their Koha services m
11:18 slef thd: gmcharlt's wording accurately captures it.
11:18 gmcharlt thd: no, I do not
11:18 thd Do you mean that any iamkoha.org site must redirect to koha-community.org?
11:18 gmcharlt for new requests to be listed, the vendor listing must link provide a link to koha-community.org; link must be eye-reable and speakable by screen reader software, but with no requirements about the form of the link otherwise
11:17 davi It is just a link back, which is fair
11:17 thd slef: perhaps you could explain what you intend (b) to mean
11:17 davi Colin--
11:17 slef Colin--
11:17 thd Colin++
11:17 chris Colin++
11:16 Colin I think b means we revisit the argument monthly
11:16 slef Let's let gmcharlt state some precise wording for it.
11:16 davi (b) requirement to link back to koha-community.org
11:16 thd I am not certain what (b) entails
11:16 slef reed: search engines don't care about tiny. Same page makes it easier to check.
11:16 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Update FSF address in debian/copyright. <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=79d5a0fce8599719ba7a0408bc60014a1a9b559c> / Upgrade Koha instance database schema when package is upgraded. <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=5b12c69f27cf468068e03310bea23ab9f4e49fb2> / Fix bug 4818: Add note to koha README.Debian to maybe disable default vhost. <http://git.koha-community.or
11:16 cait Im for different sorting options and 'offering koha services' without additional requirements
11:15 gmcharlt first
11:15 gmcharlt I'm going to split it into too
11:15 * gmcharlt calls for a vote
11:15 Colin b is already going to start generating loads of legalese
11:15 thd reed: For those interested, language about prominent could be borrowed from GPL 3 / AGPL 3
11:15 slef Colin: linkback is common practice even for some paid-for listings.
11:15 cait and there the problems start...
11:15 reed maybe have a community badge image
11:15 davi +1
11:15 hdl_laptop and then and then...
11:14 reed refinement of b -- link should be not tiny and appear on same page that we're linking to
11:14 tajoli Hi to all, also I for b) only, now
11:14 vokalrcp Start w/ b, revisit a if problems actually arise.
11:14 slef let's drop a for now
11:14 slef so I'd settle for b alone
11:13 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: right - we don't have an active individual kaitiaki at present, and while a kaitiaki committee may be a good alternative, it would take time for it to be formally constited and build credibility
11:13 davi it would be a get-out what we are sure if obvious bad
11:13 thd Ensuring objectivity about (a) could be difficult
11:12 hdl_laptop But could really be messy to implement just now.
11:12 davi the community, we, here
11:12 slef b might actually equate to a in practice - if they have their own koha astroturf site, they probably won't link back to koha-community.org
11:12 hdl_laptop solidarity clause could be better managed with a Koha kaitiaki group.
11:12 thd On the mailing list, the concern was expressed about who will judge (a)
11:12 Colin although it sounds a bit needy
11:11 chris a is going to get messy fast
11:11 gmcharlt as far as the solidarity clause is concerned - IMO, there are a number of problems defining it - obviously one vendor suing another is bad, but one *can't* always determine whether such action has anything to do with community interests; there is always the possiblility of a plain old commercial dispute
11:11 chris b i could live with
11:11 davi we both are good guys, so at the end we agree :)
11:10 slef (it's nice to see that I actually agree with davi on something after that AGPL3 discussion ;-) )
11:10 reed b+++, a0 seems too thorny to manage
11:10 davi if any other is added
11:10 davi thd, randomised should be the default order
11:10 davi (b) ++
11:10 thd davi: randomised could be one of the orders :)
11:10 davi (a) ++
11:09 gmcharlt (b) requirement to link back to koha-community.org
11:09 gmcharlt (a) Can we add a solidarity clause?
11:09 gmcharlt as I understand it, slef is proposing adding two requirements
11:09 davi thd, different orders is not good idea. Better randomised, maybe changed each month
11:09 gmcharlt and go back to the requirements questions
11:09 gmcharlt so I'd like to suggest that we not discuss formatting issues for now
11:08 gmcharlt as far as the format of the list is concerned, I know that wizzyrea has expressed willingness in the past to work on doing things like adding maps, providing sorting optoins, etc.
11:08 davi Current listing without logos is not good
11:08 thd When the issue became controversial there was some support for multiple pages with different ordering of those listed allowing the user to choose a preference for the presentation of material.
11:08 davi randomised logos table at top
11:08 davi Each month such random could be changed
11:08 gmcharlt ok, let's step back a minute
11:07 davi randomised listing ++
11:07 reed slef, only mildly curious -- more interested in what the best thing to do is
11:07 davi reed ++
11:07 davi We have the past and current experience. I am sure we can work out a better and fair listing
11:06 slef reed: want me to find them?
11:06 reed davi, agree a randomiser would be better than a static list
11:06 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Merge branch 'translation' of git://git.workbuffer.org/git/koha into to-push <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=469b32f3180831b1946257b6bcb07699c713f226> / System Preference updates <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=f4e77ec1df31cedf88cbde3aa6a81a782780fc10> / Raft of language updates <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=6a495a010d9d33c45
11:06 davi Current listing is very unfair
11:06 slef reed: people ask on list for a list occasionally
11:05 reed slef, I'm not up on what those were
11:05 thd davi: Google disadvantages new websites in their weightings generally.
11:05 davi a by language listing?
11:05 davi a geographic listing?
11:05 davi a map?
11:05 davi chris, That is because a good listing should be set up:
11:05 slef reed: as I mentioned a while back, it depends on the requirements. LibLime's requirements weren't great, shall we say.
11:05 chris and you know that
11:05 chris its not like im going to go delete it now or something
11:05 reed i think having a list of support companies has value to people wanting to use koha -- but I sell services so it's in my interest
11:05 chris im serious that i think we should just remove it
11:05 thd davi: Google is not the solution to life. I suspect that you would have difficulty finding all the companies providing Koha support using Google alone without an explicit list for Google to index.
11:04 slef chris: so you were heckling or joking that "im serious about just removing it"?
11:04 davi I fear a wiki would be even worse
11:04 davi I prefer a wiki with requirements that current state
11:04 reed the problem w/reqs was, as discussed a while back, that application becomes a pain
11:03 slef So no-one's willing to support a list with requirements. I guess that only leaves the wiki as viable.
11:03 chris good grief
11:03 chris like i was ever in the way
11:03 slef chris: if you don't want to do the work, please stand aside.
11:02 davi Let allow Google work
11:02 slef and people picking at near-random from search results (which is OK for us, but not great for the community).
11:02 thd I agree with slef's concern about how the wiki might too easily become on topic spam
11:02 davi chris++
11:02 chris lets paint it orange!!
11:02 davi each provider can have one
11:01 slef I think if no list is offered by the main site, there will be lots of worse lists created by others.
11:01 davi Type3 has removed it
11:01 davi and unfair, lot of unfair
11:01 davi chris++
11:01 chris because i think this is a total waste of time
11:00 davi Also it is unfair under "contribution and community involvement" principle
11:00 chris im serious about just removing it
11:00 slef I think keeping the list in the wiki advantages companies with marketing staff or possibly wikirobots.
11:00 davi some get lost of hits other none
11:00 davi it is unfair under current implementation
11:00 slef chris: I think supporters of koha-community should be supported by the site in turn.
11:00 chris id support that, lets just pull it from the koha-community site and put it on the wiki
10:59 larsw I propose keeping the list in the wiki, and allowing anyone to list themselves if they provide Koha services of any kind; if there's a dispute, the next monthly meeting on irc can vote on it
10:59 chris why dont you?
10:59 davi I propose list no one
10:59 slef chris: why do you want to force it to be all or nothing?
10:58 eiro_ hello world
10:58 thd +1 chris
10:58 slef I feel that it's a mistake to link from koha-community to koha companies that oppose the community, through either holding domains/TMs/other legal tricks, or by linking only to other community sites.
10:58 chris i say list everyone or list no one
10:57 davi thd, ack
10:57 slef OK, I proposed anti-privatisation and linkback requirements.
10:57 thd davi: alternative builds perhaps
10:57 davi ?
10:56 davi What would happen to GPLv3/AGPLv3 contribution if the majority choose GPLv2
10:56 gmcharlt 5. Revisit vendor listing requirements on koha-community.org.
10:56 chris but yeah lets move
10:56 thd slef: that is a possibility if people want that
10:56 gmcharlt agreed, we need to move on in the agenda
10:56 chris there should be no GPL2 code, its all GPL2+
10:56 slef but that's not for now
10:56 slef I would be interested to know what will happen to GPL2 or GPL2+/GPL3+ contributions if the majority choose AGPL3+ - rejection? Alternative branch?
10:56 davi thd, We have not detected any AGPLv3 license burden while using and applying it on several projects
10:55 hdl_laptop ok
10:55 thd davi: Did you mean contacted?
10:55 chris cool
10:55 gmcharlt OK, then Tuesday 13 July at 19:00 UTC+0 there will be a special IRC meeting to discuss the licensing question, and to either vote on (or arrange an email poll or other type of vote) to settle the issue for 3.4
10:54 thd davi: detected?
10:54 davi It will be good to hear them at the next IRC meeting
10:54 davi thd, We have not detected any one, neither FSF on several projects
10:54 slef gmcharlt: ok
10:53 slef davi: you lost at least one contributor.
10:53 thd davi: as slef correctly identifies, there are burdens with the license
10:53 gmcharlt 19:00 UTC+0?
10:52 davi +1
10:52 larsw +1
10:52 davi thd, I have put AGPLv3 into practise and I have not had any issue. Other project has done the same. No problems detected
10:52 hdl_laptop +1
10:52 thd +1
10:52 slef gmcharlt: +1
10:52 thd davi: There are issues which even I had not expected.
10:52 gmcharlt I propose Tuesday, 13 July for the discussion
10:51 gmcharlt looking at calendar
10:51 gmcharlt slef: OK, then mid-July
10:51 davi larsw, slef: I see all question rightly answered. People have just to read the license
10:51 larsw (but enough for now)
10:51 larsw slef, switching to agpl and then back is a pretty low-risk thing regardless of what agpl says
10:51 slef gmcharlt: no. July avoiding ends would be fine.
10:50 chris lets not debate it now
10:50 slef larsw: depends if you regard agpl3 as low risk with all its unanswered questions.
10:50 gmcharlt slef: does early August work better?
10:50 thd as I pointed out at the previous meeting
10:50 gmcharlt thd: I agree
10:50 thd slef should be present
10:50 larsw (switching to agpl3+ for new code is fairly low-risk, if we keep track of copyright owners, and can get them to agree to go back to gpl2+ or gpl3+ if we decide that agpl3+ was a bad idea)
10:49 slef +0 I am away both ends of July in places where connectivity is uncertain.
10:49 hdl_laptop +1
10:49 thd +1
10:49 Colin +1
10:49 gmcharlt to settle, at least for now, whether we go with GPL3, APGL3, or remain at the status quo
10:49 larsw +1
10:49 davi +1
10:49 chris 1 even
10:49 thd There are some major issues about which I do not yet have a complete answer.
10:49 chris +!
10:49 gmcharlt with the goal of organizing a project vote some time that month
10:48 gmcharlt that the issue become the topic of a special IRC meeting to be held in July
10:48 gmcharlt thd: larsw: in that case, given that the report is expected imminintly, I propose this
10:48 thd There are more responses and clarification yet needed from SFLC.
10:47 slef or postpone, even clearer
10:47 thd You can make the deadline for initial report today
10:47 slef gmcharlt: s/table/shelve/
10:47 slef Trouble is, people seem to argue against me based on whether access to source code is a good thing: I acknowledge it is, but I don't think that AGPL is a good form of it.
10:47 davi +1
10:47 gmcharlt and table this for now
10:47 larsw I agree, but suggest we have a deadline so this does not drag on indefinitely
10:47 reed +1
10:47 chris yep
10:47 gmcharlt which is to punt - since thd has taken upon himself to ask the SFLC about the legalities, I suggest that we wait for him to report back to koha-devel
10:46 * gmcharlt has a suggestion
10:46 davi *nod*
10:46 thd davi: Yes, data is not covered by the license for the software
10:45 davi base
10:45 davi AGPLv3 protect against lock-in the source code. It does not talk about data
10:45 gmcharlt thd: yep, that's what I mean
10:45 chris thd: thats what it is
10:45 thd ... I mean a script available from the web interface of course
10:45 reed it could be worth handling the data lock in issue via a code of conduct
10:45 gmcharlt thd: yep - in fact, such a script was submitted by larsw recently
10:45 davi AGPLv3 do not force publish data, of course. That would be a lack of common sense
10:44 slef So libraries should simply add access to the program code as a contractual matter too. It's in software.coop's contracts in a much clearer and less obnoxious manner than AGPL3.
10:44 thd gmcharlt: We could write a script available on the admin side to dump the database for the user.
10:44 chris *nod*
10:44 gmcharlt I think AGPL3, insofar as it we're debating it, is relevant to the source code only
10:44 davi which a fork actually
10:44 davi slef, without AGPLv3 the vendor can lock both data and _source code_
10:44 thd Some answers are awaiting Aaron consulting with Eben Moglen who has been travelling.
10:43 gmcharlt protection of the access to the library's data if they are hosted is probably best done as a contractual matter; and it's increasingly common for libraries to insist on that
10:43 davi is it just the GPLv3 with a new section
10:43 davi (read the added license section)
10:43 thd I added slef's issues about which I intended to follow up during my meeting
10:43 davi addition*
10:43 davi plus*
10:42 davi protect against source code locking in hosting a the plush of AGPLv3
10:42 thd I had finished drafting a list of questions in the middle of the month but I could not obtain immediate answers
10:42 slef davi: you are making my point. The vendor can lock the database to offsite access. AGPLv3 does not (and a copyright license cannot) prevent that.
10:42 gmcharlt of course, that could change at any point giving a sufficiently shiny new dependency that would be a useful addition to Koha
10:42 gmcharlt slef: there is no GPL3 code that I'm aware of that we have a specific technical desire to integrate into Koha at the moment
10:42 davi I own my photo, and so on
10:41 davi of course not data base download, as data is owned ususaly by each user individually
10:41 thd Unfortunately, there is no email response to simply post
10:41 davi you have to provide source download
10:41 davi Under AGPLv3, vendor lock-in is not possible: That is false (still achievable through access control, particularly to the databases)
10:40 thd I have been much sleep deprived the past month
10:40 thd I fell asleep at midnight drafting the answers thus far
10:40 gmcharlt thd: since this is a matter of general *project* debate, I would like to ask you to send a precis of your discussions with Aaron to koha-devel as soon as practical
10:39 slef Is there code under *GPLv3 which we want to integrate imminently?
10:39 thd I have been very thorough
10:39 thd I have also been asking about objections from slef
10:39 thd gmcharlt: Yes
10:39 gmcharlt thd: you were asking about the AGPL?
10:39 slef I think this is a really bad idea as explained in http://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2010-May/023816.html
10:38 thd Not all my questions have been answered
10:38 thd I had a meeting with Aaron Williams at SFLC last week
10:37 thd I have been consulting with SFLC on what would be required
10:37 gmcharlt # Discuss switching licensing for all new code submissions to Affero General Public License (AGPL)
10:37 gmcharlt so, unless there is something to follow-up on, moving to
10:36 gmcharlt follow up from action items from last meeting - I think there were none
10:36 gmcharlt onward
10:36 gmcharlt ok, thanks
10:35 slef not from me
10:34 hdl_laptop unless you have questions.
10:34 hdl_laptop no.
10:33 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: anything more you'd like to say about 3.0.x?
10:33 gmcharlt the next agenda item is 3.0 - hdl_laptop mentioned plans to release a 3.0.7, which will be the final release on 3.0.x (assuming no security critical bug crops up, I assume)
10:33 gmcharlt ok
10:33 chris i dont think anyone could ask anything else from you
10:33 slef Not from me.
10:33 chris not from me, i think its up to us to get the blockers fixed so you can release it
10:32 slef I've not reviewed that proposal. I'm still very much back in 3.0, which is frustrating but a challenge I must deal with.
10:32 gmcharlt any questions before we move on?
10:32 chris :)
10:32 gmcharlt but dragging this conversation back to 3.2
10:32 gmcharlt which may remove some of the redundancy of having one file with the complete schema and a separate script that updates a database
10:32 chris in fact the schema parts of DBIx::Class are what interest me most
10:31 gmcharlt slef: one of the possibilities offered by DBIx::Class, which chris is proposing for 3.4, is that it can help automate most schema updates
10:31 chris *nod*
10:30 gmcharlt well, one thing to consider for 3.4 is removing the need to have an explicit database update for new sysprefs; I think we're 80% of the way towards being able to do that
10:30 slef I remain of the opinion that breaking database changes into small SQL files and using Make or similar to resolve the dependencies is the way to make that easier, but this is an argument I've failed to persuade people about before already, so I'm not going to dwell on it unless people are interested to hear it again.
10:29 chris i think the rule still applies
10:29 hdl_laptop most of the database changes were systempreferences adding
10:29 thd gmcharlt: anything which is not built in to MediaWiki is available by extension or script
10:29 davi chris++
10:28 chris i think 4141 is a good example of what we dont want to do with 3.2.x and 3.4.x .. i think database changes in the stable branch should not be made unless they are made first in the development branch and backported
10:28 gmcharlt thd: ^^ could you check for whether MediaWIki has a built-in link checker (for external links?)
10:28 cait I have two more patches ready, addition of $w subfields to all marc21 frameworks and an index for them, any chance to get them in? or just send an mark them for 3.4?
10:27 nengard whatever works for the most people :)
10:27 larsw nengard, would running an automatic link checker against the website and/or the wiki be helpful?
10:26 gmcharlt larsw: debian packaging fixes are fine - at this point, they are pretty much auto-accepted by me
10:25 nengard slef: re wiki links - these are the pages I didn't get to move over: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Special:WantedPages before the old site went down - as for links to outside sites I didn't check them - was just rushing to get the stuff moved
10:25 gmcharlt any help on that one gratefully accepted
10:25 gmcharlt slef: that will need a full court press; me, chris, hdl_laptop, possibly chris_n when he gets back from vacation
10:25 chris as i fix them at HLT
10:25 larsw gmcharlt, I will probably want to fix some more things in the Debian packaging, is that ok to send patches for? (i.e., are they likely to be accepted or just noise right now?)
10:25 chris i will be sending some fixes for acquisitions in the next few weeks
10:24 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4141 blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, reconcile 3.0.x and HEAD database updates for 3.2.0
10:24 slef only that bug 4141 seems like hell - are there enough people to work on it?
10:24 gmcharlt any other questions about 3.2?
10:23 chris nope, you cant
10:23 gmcharlt slef: AFAIK, emailing bugzilla let's you create a bug or update one; dunno if you can close a bug that way, maybe chris would know
10:23 hdl_laptop BibLibre will do.
10:22 slef Did I see that we can email bugzilla now? Can we get lists and/or close bugs by email?
10:22 gmcharlt and I issue a special call to BibLibre to help out on this - there are a number of bugs for new_acq that have been reported
10:21 gmcharlt (b) please focus on blockers and major acq bugs
10:21 gmcharlt possible planning for a big bug culling as 3.4 gets underway
10:21 gmcharlt and even if we don't get that cleaned up for 3.2, we need to clean that up soon
10:20 gmcharlt w/o naming names, there are several individuals who have dozens or even hundreds of bugs who they opened that can be closed now
10:20 gmcharlt (a) please go through all of your open bugs; any that can be closed, please do so
10:20 davi ack slef
10:20 gmcharlt to that end, I would like to request
10:20 chris i agree
10:19 gmcharlt sooner 3.2 is wrapped up, the sooner we can devote all of our energies to 3.4
10:19 slef davi: I still meet lots of broken links on wiki.koha-community.org
10:19 gmcharlt what I would like to ask for at this point is a pause for people to focus on 3.2 for the next couple weeks rather than 3.4
10:18 gmcharlt regarding release of 3.2
10:18 davi I think the migration to koha-community.org is complete
10:17 gmcharlt slef: yes, use koha-patches@lists.koha-community.org
10:17 slef I'm pretty sure we've published some fixes which haven't been included yet, that I need to rebase, retest and send a pull-request. Is koha-patches@lists.koha-community.org better than patches@koha.org was?
10:17 hdl_laptop those bugs are referenced in bugs.koha-community.org and nahuel sent patches
10:16 hdl_laptop And those fix will hit 3.2.
10:16 hdl_laptop there are still some bugs in 3.0.7 that we fixed.
10:15 slef maybe hdl_laptop would like to answer chris, while we digest gmcharlt's resync-flood
10:15 * gmcharlt checks the IRC logs to see what he needs to paste back
10:15 gmcharlt sorry, net access had dropped
10:15 * gmcharlt is back
10:15 gmcharlt questions thus far?
10:15 gmcharlt once the beta is out, there will be a total string freeze
10:15 gmcharlt consequently, assuming adequate progress on those, I expect to release the beta some time next week
10:15 gmcharlt or appear to be ready to close but just need the reporter to confirm
10:15 gmcharlt most of the other remaining blockers are for 3.4
10:15 slef wb gmcharlt
10:15 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3756 blocker, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, new sys prefs - no way to add a new local use preference
10:15 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4141 blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, reconcile 3.0.x and HEAD database updates for 3.2.0
10:15 gmcharlt bug 3756 - no way to add local use sysprefs
10:15 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4310 blocker, P5, ---, henridamien, NEW, No Migration for budgets from 3.0 to 3.2
10:15 gmcharlt bug 4141 - reconciliation of database changes from 3.0.x to 3.2
10:15 gmcharlt any, bug 4310 - no migration for budgets from 3.0 to 3.2
10:15 munin gmcharlt: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4310 blocker, P5, ---, henridamien, NEW, No Migration for budgets from 3.0 to 3.2
10:15 * gmcharlt pauses to kick munin
10:15 gmcharlt @bug 4310
10:15 gmcharlt at present, the most important ones are
10:15 gmcharlt at this point, several blockers are yet to be resolved
10:15 gmcharlt I am close to being ready to release the beta
10:15 gmcharlt regarding 3.2
10:15 gmcharlt Agree times of next meetings.
10:15 gmcharlt info@koha.org address:
10:15 gmcharlt (If time permits) Revisit vendor listing requirements on koha-community.org
10:15 gmcharlt Discuss switching licensing for all new code submissions to Affero General Public License (AGPL)
10:15 gmcharlt # Update on Roadmap to 3.0.
10:15 gmcharlt # Update on Roadmap to 3.2.
10:15 gmcharlt the agenda is
10:14 chris are the bugs in 3.0.6 that require a 3.0.7?
10:14 chris and what will it contain?
10:13 slef Any idea when that release will be?
10:13 slef OK - anything else?
10:11 hdl_laptop 3.2 will be the stable release.
10:11 hdl_laptop I think one more release and we are set.
10:11 slef yippee!
10:10 hdl_laptop 3.0.6 was released.
10:10 hdl_laptop slef: ok..
10:10 juan yes
10:10 slef I think maybe gmcharlt is fighting a grue. Maybe hdl_laptop would like to start with the Update on Roadmap to 3.0?
10:09 slef gmcharlt: are you there and ready to give Update on Roadmap to 3.2?
10:08 bgkriegel thank you hdl_laptop
10:08 miguel hi, Miguel A. Calvo, Xercode , Spain
10:08 juan Juan Sieira, Xercode Media Software, Spain
10:07 hdl_laptop (congrats bgkriegel)
10:07 * paul_p Paul Poulain, BibLibre (almost here, not 100% maybe)
10:05 bgkriegel bgkriegel, Cordoba, Argentina,
10:05 chris oh yeah, RM 3.4
10:04 * hdl_laptop Henri-Damien LAURENT, Release maintainer 3.0
10:04 * hdl_laptop Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre SARL
10:03 kmkale =Koustubha Kale anantcorp.com and granthalaya.org
10:03 vokalrcp =Richard Pritsky, vokal
10:03 chris chris cormack, catalyst IT
10:03 * nengard = Nicole C. Engard, ByWater Solutions
10:03 * larsw = Lars Wirzenius, Catalyst IT (did some Debian packaging for Koha)
10:03 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
10:03 reed Reed Wade, Catalyst, NZ
10:03 Colin = Colin Campbell, PTFS Europe
10:03 magnus Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
10:03 davi Davi Diaz (worker for software.coop)
10:03 * slef = MJ Ray, member of software.coop
10:03 jransom Joann Ransom, HLT, NZ
10:02 cait = Katrin Fischer
10:02 * gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.2 RM
10:02 gmcharlt let's start with a round of intros
10:02 nengard hehe
10:02 thd nengard: You should discover the joy of jumping on beds
10:01 gmcharlt http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_Meeting,_June_2_2010
10:01 gmcharlt it's now time for the meeting
10:01 davi no comment :)
10:01 nengard and he knows what time we wake up - and it's not at 5am
10:01 nengard i'm so going to lock my boy up today!!! we were woken up by him jumping on the bed and off the bed and spinning around on the floor and on the bed and off the bed!!
10:00 thd I have been too sleep deprived for a month.
10:00 vokalrcp Morning! :)
09:59 jransom evening all
09:59 chris morning nengard
09:58 vokalrcp YUM!
09:56 chris http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financier_(pastry) <-- im addicted to the nz version of these, the cafe i get my morning coffee from sells them
09:55 gmcharlt Colin++
09:55 gmcharlt hdl_laptop++
09:55 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: giving you coffe.
09:54 chris hiya Colin
09:54 Colin one virtual espresso coming up
09:53 chris heh
09:53 * gmcharlt offers a shiny new free ILS to whoever sends coffee
09:53 vokalrcp Good morning
09:52 gmcharlt good morning
09:51 vokalrcp Hello back atcha
09:50 chris hello vermont :-)
09:50 reed ick
09:50 vokalrcp Yup
09:50 reed 6am?
09:50 vokalrcp OK for east coast, though :)
09:50 chris yeah, brendan sends his apologies
09:49 reed ooh, yeah, so, is pretty bad for US west coast
09:49 chris i like the idea of shifting it round, so no everyone has to do a bad time at least once :)
09:48 chris pretty early for the usians, but works for the rest of us :)
09:47 * kmkale thinks 10 UTC is a gr8 time to have meetings
09:45 chris http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=10+UTC
09:45 chris yep, thats what wolframalpha tells me
09:44 chris so yeah 15 mins i think
09:44 chris 10 UTC
09:43 reed i think so
09:43 larsw am I right that there's a meeting in 15 min?
09:42 reed hey
09:42 larsw good evening
09:42 chris evening larsw
09:39 reed cool
09:39 reed but yeah, separate test after the build which would take part of Kathy's job
09:39 reed separate is the merge test w/fail mails
09:38 reed that protects the build
09:38 chris yeah
09:38 reed er, there's a merge fail list that comes in the autobuild mail
09:37 chris yep
09:37 reed could auto-set the status so it drops out of next build
09:37 chris it doesnt asplode, it stays in
09:37 chris asplodes, we pull the branch back out
09:36 chris hudson runs tests
09:36 chris (when we set some status)
09:36 chris apply it to that, the autobuilder merges it
09:36 chris or i'd do that, ie when a patch comes in, make a branch
09:36 reed i thought it was crazy but it really works
09:35 reed i have to say I really to like the scheme we've been using
09:35 reed which'll put us behind on the world cup stuff but..
09:35 chris which is no bad thing
09:35 chris people would have to name their branches after a bug
09:35 chris heh
09:34 reed I'll drop tim a note, he'll get all antsy and excited and have it done by the morning
09:34 reed cool
09:33 chris reed: yep i am sure we could do that
09:20 davi np
09:04 cait thats why I still read my mails when on vacation
09:04 slef one of my mailservers was offline earlier - hopefully not due to my mailbox!
09:04 slef cait: bah. I have 4500 of them queued :(
09:02 cait and hi slef, sorry, still reading mails
09:01 cait hi paul_p
09:01 slef thanks davi ;-)
09:01 slef someone had already adjusted to BST
09:01 slef ok, sorry, I was reading from my calendar
09:00 paul_p slef, cait is right, meeting in 1 hour
08:58 cait in 1 I think
08:57 slef morning... meeting in 2 hours?
08:54 kmkale Good afternoon
08:45 reed maybe we even fund tim to do the adaptation, he'd enjoy that
08:42 reed chris, -- think we could get buzilla to act like wrms and adapt tim's autobuild goo for koha RCs?
08:16 magnus anyone here going to ELAG in Helsinki next week? interested in some kind of koha meetup?
08:14 jransom hiya all
08:14 Colin morning cait
08:14 cait morning #koha
03:23 brendan hey Amit
03:22 Amit heya chris, brendan
02:56 brendan phasefx_ stay still
01:20 chris_n howdy brendan
01:20 brendan heya chris_n
01:08 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Dunn, North Carolina is 23.1�C (9:06 PM EDT on June 01, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 19.0�C. Pressure: 29.56 in 1000.9 hPa (Falling).
01:08 chris_n @wunder 28334