Time Nick Message 01:08 chris_n @wunder 28334 01:08 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Dunn, North Carolina is 23.1�C (9:06 PM EDT on June 01, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 19.0�C. Pressure: 29.56 in 1000.9 hPa (Falling). 01:20 brendan heya chris_n 01:20 chris_n howdy brendan 02:56 brendan phasefx_ stay still 03:22 Amit heya chris, brendan 03:23 brendan hey Amit 08:14 cait morning #koha 08:14 Colin morning cait 08:14 jransom hiya all 08:16 magnus anyone here going to ELAG in Helsinki next week? interested in some kind of koha meetup? 08:42 reed chris, -- think we could get buzilla to act like wrms and adapt tim's autobuild goo for koha RCs? 08:45 reed maybe we even fund tim to do the adaptation, he'd enjoy that 08:54 kmkale Good afternoon 08:57 slef morning... meeting in 2 hours? 08:58 cait in 1 I think 09:00 paul_p slef, cait is right, meeting in 1 hour 09:01 slef ok, sorry, I was reading from my calendar 09:01 slef someone had already adjusted to BST 09:01 slef thanks davi ;-) 09:01 cait hi paul_p 09:02 cait and hi slef, sorry, still reading mails 09:04 slef cait: bah. I have 4500 of them queued :( 09:04 slef one of my mailservers was offline earlier - hopefully not due to my mailbox! 09:04 cait thats why I still read my mails when on vacation 09:20 davi np 09:33 chris reed: yep i am sure we could do that 09:34 reed cool 09:34 reed I'll drop tim a note, he'll get all antsy and excited and have it done by the morning 09:35 chris heh 09:35 chris people would have to name their branches after a bug 09:35 chris which is no bad thing 09:35 reed which'll put us behind on the world cup stuff but.. 09:35 reed i have to say I really to like the scheme we've been using 09:36 reed i thought it was crazy but it really works 09:36 chris or i'd do that, ie when a patch comes in, make a branch 09:36 chris apply it to that, the autobuilder merges it 09:36 chris (when we set some status) 09:36 chris hudson runs tests 09:37 chris asplodes, we pull the branch back out 09:37 chris it doesnt asplode, it stays in 09:37 reed could auto-set the status so it drops out of next build 09:37 chris yep 09:38 reed er, there's a merge fail list that comes in the autobuild mail 09:38 chris yeah 09:38 reed that protects the build 09:39 reed separate is the merge test w/fail mails 09:39 reed but yeah, separate test after the build which would take part of Kathy's job 09:39 reed cool 09:42 chris evening larsw 09:42 larsw good evening 09:42 reed hey 09:43 larsw am I right that there's a meeting in 15 min? 09:43 reed i think so 09:44 chris 10 UTC 09:44 chris so yeah 15 mins i think 09:45 chris yep, thats what wolframalpha tells me 09:45 chris http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=10+UTC 09:47 * kmkale thinks 10 UTC is a gr8 time to have meetings 09:48 chris pretty early for the usians, but works for the rest of us :) 09:49 chris i like the idea of shifting it round, so no everyone has to do a bad time at least once :) 09:49 reed ooh, yeah, so, is pretty bad for US west coast 09:50 chris yeah, brendan sends his apologies 09:50 vokalrcp OK for east coast, though :) 09:50 reed 6am? 09:50 vokalrcp Yup 09:50 reed ick 09:50 chris hello vermont :-) 09:51 vokalrcp Hello back atcha 09:52 gmcharlt good morning 09:53 vokalrcp Good morning 09:53 * gmcharlt offers a shiny new free ILS to whoever sends coffee 09:53 chris heh 09:54 Colin one virtual espresso coming up 09:54 chris hiya Colin 09:55 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: giving you coffe. 09:55 gmcharlt hdl_laptop++ 09:55 gmcharlt Colin++ 09:56 chris http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financier_(pastry) <-- im addicted to the nz version of these, the cafe i get my morning coffee from sells them 09:58 vokalrcp YUM! 09:59 chris morning nengard 09:59 jransom evening all 10:00 vokalrcp Morning! :) 10:00 thd I have been too sleep deprived for a month. 10:01 nengard i'm so going to lock my boy up today!!! we were woken up by him jumping on the bed and off the bed and spinning around on the floor and on the bed and off the bed!! 10:01 nengard and he knows what time we wake up - and it's not at 5am 10:01 davi no comment :) 10:01 gmcharlt it's now time for the meeting 10:01 gmcharlt http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_Meeting,_June_2_2010 10:02 thd nengard: You should discover the joy of jumping on beds 10:02 nengard hehe 10:02 gmcharlt let's start with a round of intros 10:02 * gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.2 RM 10:02 cait = Katrin Fischer 10:03 jransom Joann Ransom, HLT, NZ 10:03 * slef = MJ Ray, member of software.coop 10:03 davi Davi Diaz (worker for software.coop) 10:03 magnus Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway 10:03 Colin = Colin Campbell, PTFS Europe 10:03 reed Reed Wade, Catalyst, NZ 10:03 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 10:03 * larsw = Lars Wirzenius, Catalyst IT (did some Debian packaging for Koha) 10:03 * nengard = Nicole C. Engard, ByWater Solutions 10:03 chris chris cormack, catalyst IT 10:03 vokalrcp =Richard Pritsky, vokal 10:03 kmkale =Koustubha Kale anantcorp.com and granthalaya.org 10:04 * hdl_laptop Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre SARL 10:04 * hdl_laptop Henri-Damien LAURENT, Release maintainer 3.0 10:05 chris oh yeah, RM 3.4 10:05 bgkriegel bgkriegel, Cordoba, Argentina, 10:07 * paul_p Paul Poulain, BibLibre (almost here, not 100% maybe) 10:07 hdl_laptop (congrats bgkriegel) 10:08 juan Juan Sieira, Xercode Media Software, Spain 10:08 miguel hi, Miguel A. Calvo, Xercode , Spain 10:08 bgkriegel thank you hdl_laptop 10:09 slef gmcharlt: are you there and ready to give Update on Roadmap to 3.2? 10:10 slef I think maybe gmcharlt is fighting a grue. Maybe hdl_laptop would like to start with the Update on Roadmap to 3.0? 10:10 juan yes 10:10 hdl_laptop slef: ok.. 10:10 hdl_laptop 3.0.6 was released. 10:11 slef yippee! 10:11 hdl_laptop I think one more release and we are set. 10:11 hdl_laptop 3.2 will be the stable release. 10:13 slef OK - anything else? 10:13 slef Any idea when that release will be? 10:14 chris and what will it contain? 10:14 chris are the bugs in 3.0.6 that require a 3.0.7? 10:15 gmcharlt the agenda is 10:15 gmcharlt # Update on Roadmap to 3.2. 10:15 gmcharlt # Update on Roadmap to 3.0. 10:15 gmcharlt Discuss switching licensing for all new code submissions to Affero General Public License (AGPL) 10:15 gmcharlt (If time permits) Revisit vendor listing requirements on koha-community.org 10:15 gmcharlt info@koha.org address: 10:15 gmcharlt Agree times of next meetings. 10:15 gmcharlt regarding 3.2 10:15 gmcharlt I am close to being ready to release the beta 10:15 gmcharlt at this point, several blockers are yet to be resolved 10:15 gmcharlt at present, the most important ones are 10:15 gmcharlt @bug 4310 10:15 * gmcharlt pauses to kick munin 10:15 munin gmcharlt: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4310 blocker, P5, ---, henridamien, NEW, No Migration for budgets from 3.0 to 3.2 10:15 gmcharlt any, bug 4310 - no migration for budgets from 3.0 to 3.2 10:15 gmcharlt bug 4141 - reconciliation of database changes from 3.0.x to 3.2 10:15 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4310 blocker, P5, ---, henridamien, NEW, No Migration for budgets from 3.0 to 3.2 10:15 gmcharlt bug 3756 - no way to add local use sysprefs 10:15 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4141 blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, reconcile 3.0.x and HEAD database updates for 3.2.0 10:15 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3756 blocker, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, new sys prefs - no way to add a new local use preference 10:15 slef wb gmcharlt 10:15 gmcharlt most of the other remaining blockers are for 3.4 10:15 gmcharlt or appear to be ready to close but just need the reporter to confirm 10:15 gmcharlt consequently, assuming adequate progress on those, I expect to release the beta some time next week 10:15 gmcharlt once the beta is out, there will be a total string freeze 10:15 gmcharlt questions thus far? 10:15 * gmcharlt is back 10:15 gmcharlt sorry, net access had dropped 10:15 * gmcharlt checks the IRC logs to see what he needs to paste back 10:15 slef maybe hdl_laptop would like to answer chris, while we digest gmcharlt's resync-flood 10:16 hdl_laptop there are still some bugs in 3.0.7 that we fixed. 10:16 hdl_laptop And those fix will hit 3.2. 10:17 hdl_laptop those bugs are referenced in bugs.koha-community.org and nahuel sent patches 10:17 slef I'm pretty sure we've published some fixes which haven't been included yet, that I need to rebase, retest and send a pull-request. Is koha-patches@lists.koha-community.org better than patches@koha.org was? 10:17 gmcharlt slef: yes, use koha-patches@lists.koha-community.org 10:18 davi I think the migration to koha-community.org is complete 10:18 gmcharlt regarding release of 3.2 10:19 gmcharlt what I would like to ask for at this point is a pause for people to focus on 3.2 for the next couple weeks rather than 3.4 10:19 slef davi: I still meet lots of broken links on wiki.koha-community.org 10:19 gmcharlt sooner 3.2 is wrapped up, the sooner we can devote all of our energies to 3.4 10:20 chris i agree 10:20 gmcharlt to that end, I would like to request 10:20 davi ack slef 10:20 gmcharlt (a) please go through all of your open bugs; any that can be closed, please do so 10:20 gmcharlt w/o naming names, there are several individuals who have dozens or even hundreds of bugs who they opened that can be closed now 10:21 gmcharlt and even if we don't get that cleaned up for 3.2, we need to clean that up soon 10:21 gmcharlt possible planning for a big bug culling as 3.4 gets underway 10:21 gmcharlt (b) please focus on blockers and major acq bugs 10:22 gmcharlt and I issue a special call to BibLibre to help out on this - there are a number of bugs for new_acq that have been reported 10:22 slef Did I see that we can email bugzilla now? Can we get lists and/or close bugs by email? 10:23 hdl_laptop BibLibre will do. 10:23 gmcharlt slef: AFAIK, emailing bugzilla let's you create a bug or update one; dunno if you can close a bug that way, maybe chris would know 10:23 chris nope, you cant 10:24 gmcharlt any other questions about 3.2? 10:24 slef only that bug 4141 seems like hell - are there enough people to work on it? 10:24 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4141 blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, reconcile 3.0.x and HEAD database updates for 3.2.0 10:25 chris i will be sending some fixes for acquisitions in the next few weeks 10:25 larsw gmcharlt, I will probably want to fix some more things in the Debian packaging, is that ok to send patches for? (i.e., are they likely to be accepted or just noise right now?) 10:25 chris as i fix them at HLT 10:25 gmcharlt slef: that will need a full court press; me, chris, hdl_laptop, possibly chris_n when he gets back from vacation 10:25 gmcharlt any help on that one gratefully accepted 10:25 nengard slef: re wiki links - these are the pages I didn't get to move over: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Special:WantedPages before the old site went down - as for links to outside sites I didn't check them - was just rushing to get the stuff moved 10:26 gmcharlt larsw: debian packaging fixes are fine - at this point, they are pretty much auto-accepted by me 10:27 larsw nengard, would running an automatic link checker against the website and/or the wiki be helpful? 10:27 nengard whatever works for the most people :) 10:28 cait I have two more patches ready, addition of $w subfields to all marc21 frameworks and an index for them, any chance to get them in? or just send an mark them for 3.4? 10:28 gmcharlt thd: ^^ could you check for whether MediaWIki has a built-in link checker (for external links?) 10:28 chris i think 4141 is a good example of what we dont want to do with 3.2.x and 3.4.x .. i think database changes in the stable branch should not be made unless they are made first in the development branch and backported 10:29 davi chris++ 10:29 thd gmcharlt: anything which is not built in to MediaWiki is available by extension or script 10:29 hdl_laptop most of the database changes were systempreferences adding 10:29 chris i think the rule still applies 10:30 slef I remain of the opinion that breaking database changes into small SQL files and using Make or similar to resolve the dependencies is the way to make that easier, but this is an argument I've failed to persuade people about before already, so I'm not going to dwell on it unless people are interested to hear it again. 10:30 gmcharlt well, one thing to consider for 3.4 is removing the need to have an explicit database update for new sysprefs; I think we're 80% of the way towards being able to do that 10:31 chris *nod* 10:31 gmcharlt slef: one of the possibilities offered by DBIx::Class, which chris is proposing for 3.4, is that it can help automate most schema updates 10:32 chris in fact the schema parts of DBIx::Class are what interest me most 10:32 gmcharlt which may remove some of the redundancy of having one file with the complete schema and a separate script that updates a database 10:32 gmcharlt but dragging this conversation back to 3.2 10:32 chris :) 10:32 gmcharlt any questions before we move on? 10:32 slef I've not reviewed that proposal. I'm still very much back in 3.0, which is frustrating but a challenge I must deal with. 10:33 chris not from me, i think its up to us to get the blockers fixed so you can release it 10:33 slef Not from me. 10:33 chris i dont think anyone could ask anything else from you 10:33 gmcharlt ok 10:33 gmcharlt the next agenda item is 3.0 - hdl_laptop mentioned plans to release a 3.0.7, which will be the final release on 3.0.x (assuming no security critical bug crops up, I assume) 10:33 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: anything more you'd like to say about 3.0.x? 10:34 hdl_laptop no. 10:34 hdl_laptop unless you have questions. 10:35 slef not from me 10:36 gmcharlt ok, thanks 10:36 gmcharlt onward 10:36 gmcharlt follow up from action items from last meeting - I think there were none 10:37 gmcharlt so, unless there is something to follow-up on, moving to 10:37 gmcharlt # Discuss switching licensing for all new code submissions to Affero General Public License (AGPL) 10:37 thd I have been consulting with SFLC on what would be required 10:38 thd I had a meeting with Aaron Williams at SFLC last week 10:38 thd Not all my questions have been answered 10:39 slef I think this is a really bad idea as explained in http://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2010-May/023816.html 10:39 gmcharlt thd: you were asking about the AGPL? 10:39 thd gmcharlt: Yes 10:39 thd I have also been asking about objections from slef 10:39 thd I have been very thorough 10:39 slef Is there code under *GPLv3 which we want to integrate imminently? 10:40 gmcharlt thd: since this is a matter of general *project* debate, I would like to ask you to send a precis of your discussions with Aaron to koha-devel as soon as practical 10:40 thd I fell asleep at midnight drafting the answers thus far 10:40 thd I have been much sleep deprived the past month 10:41 davi Under AGPLv3, vendor lock-in is not possible: That is false (still achievable through access control, particularly to the databases) 10:41 davi you have to provide source download 10:41 thd Unfortunately, there is no email response to simply post 10:41 davi of course not data base download, as data is owned ususaly by each user individually 10:42 davi I own my photo, and so on 10:42 gmcharlt slef: there is no GPL3 code that I'm aware of that we have a specific technical desire to integrate into Koha at the moment 10:42 gmcharlt of course, that could change at any point giving a sufficiently shiny new dependency that would be a useful addition to Koha 10:42 slef davi: you are making my point. The vendor can lock the database to offsite access. AGPLv3 does not (and a copyright license cannot) prevent that. 10:42 thd I had finished drafting a list of questions in the middle of the month but I could not obtain immediate answers 10:42 davi protect against source code locking in hosting a the plush of AGPLv3 10:43 davi plus* 10:43 davi addition* 10:43 thd I added slef's issues about which I intended to follow up during my meeting 10:43 davi (read the added license section) 10:43 davi is it just the GPLv3 with a new section 10:43 gmcharlt protection of the access to the library's data if they are hosted is probably best done as a contractual matter; and it's increasingly common for libraries to insist on that 10:44 thd Some answers are awaiting Aaron consulting with Eben Moglen who has been travelling. 10:44 davi slef, without AGPLv3 the vendor can lock both data and _source code_ 10:44 davi which a fork actually 10:44 gmcharlt I think AGPL3, insofar as it we're debating it, is relevant to the source code only 10:44 chris *nod* 10:44 thd gmcharlt: We could write a script available on the admin side to dump the database for the user. 10:44 slef So libraries should simply add access to the program code as a contractual matter too. It's in software.coop's contracts in a much clearer and less obnoxious manner than AGPL3. 10:45 davi AGPLv3 do not force publish data, of course. That would be a lack of common sense 10:45 gmcharlt thd: yep - in fact, such a script was submitted by larsw recently 10:45 reed it could be worth handling the data lock in issue via a code of conduct 10:45 thd ... I mean a script available from the web interface of course 10:45 chris thd: thats what it is 10:45 gmcharlt thd: yep, that's what I mean 10:45 davi AGPLv3 protect against lock-in the source code. It does not talk about data 10:45 davi base 10:46 thd davi: Yes, data is not covered by the license for the software 10:46 davi *nod* 10:46 * gmcharlt has a suggestion 10:47 gmcharlt which is to punt - since thd has taken upon himself to ask the SFLC about the legalities, I suggest that we wait for him to report back to koha-devel 10:47 chris yep 10:47 reed +1 10:47 larsw I agree, but suggest we have a deadline so this does not drag on indefinitely 10:47 gmcharlt and table this for now 10:47 davi +1 10:47 slef Trouble is, people seem to argue against me based on whether access to source code is a good thing: I acknowledge it is, but I don't think that AGPL is a good form of it. 10:47 slef gmcharlt: s/table/shelve/ 10:47 thd You can make the deadline for initial report today 10:47 slef or postpone, even clearer 10:48 thd There are more responses and clarification yet needed from SFLC. 10:48 gmcharlt thd: larsw: in that case, given that the report is expected imminintly, I propose this 10:48 gmcharlt that the issue become the topic of a special IRC meeting to be held in July 10:49 gmcharlt with the goal of organizing a project vote some time that month 10:49 chris +! 10:49 thd There are some major issues about which I do not yet have a complete answer. 10:49 chris 1 even 10:49 davi +1 10:49 larsw +1 10:49 gmcharlt to settle, at least for now, whether we go with GPL3, APGL3, or remain at the status quo 10:49 Colin +1 10:49 thd +1 10:49 hdl_laptop +1 10:49 slef +0 I am away both ends of July in places where connectivity is uncertain. 10:50 larsw (switching to agpl3+ for new code is fairly low-risk, if we keep track of copyright owners, and can get them to agree to go back to gpl2+ or gpl3+ if we decide that agpl3+ was a bad idea) 10:50 thd slef should be present 10:50 gmcharlt thd: I agree 10:50 thd as I pointed out at the previous meeting 10:50 gmcharlt slef: does early August work better? 10:50 slef larsw: depends if you regard agpl3 as low risk with all its unanswered questions. 10:50 chris lets not debate it now 10:51 slef gmcharlt: no. July avoiding ends would be fine. 10:51 larsw slef, switching to agpl and then back is a pretty low-risk thing regardless of what agpl says 10:51 larsw (but enough for now) 10:51 davi larsw, slef: I see all question rightly answered. People have just to read the license 10:51 gmcharlt slef: OK, then mid-July 10:51 gmcharlt looking at calendar 10:52 gmcharlt I propose Tuesday, 13 July for the discussion 10:52 thd davi: There are issues which even I had not expected. 10:52 slef gmcharlt: +1 10:52 thd +1 10:52 hdl_laptop +1 10:52 davi thd, I have put AGPLv3 into practise and I have not had any issue. Other project has done the same. No problems detected 10:52 larsw +1 10:52 davi +1 10:53 gmcharlt 19:00 UTC+0? 10:53 thd davi: as slef correctly identifies, there are burdens with the license 10:53 slef davi: you lost at least one contributor. 10:54 slef gmcharlt: ok 10:54 davi thd, We have not detected any one, neither FSF on several projects 10:54 davi It will be good to hear them at the next IRC meeting 10:54 thd davi: detected? 10:55 gmcharlt OK, then Tuesday 13 July at 19:00 UTC+0 there will be a special IRC meeting to discuss the licensing question, and to either vote on (or arrange an email poll or other type of vote) to settle the issue for 3.4 10:55 chris cool 10:55 thd davi: Did you mean contacted? 10:55 hdl_laptop ok 10:56 davi thd, We have not detected any AGPLv3 license burden while using and applying it on several projects 10:56 slef I would be interested to know what will happen to GPL2 or GPL2+/GPL3+ contributions if the majority choose AGPL3+ - rejection? Alternative branch? 10:56 slef but that's not for now 10:56 chris there should be no GPL2 code, its all GPL2+ 10:56 gmcharlt agreed, we need to move on in the agenda 10:56 thd slef: that is a possibility if people want that 10:56 chris but yeah lets move 10:56 gmcharlt 5. Revisit vendor listing requirements on koha-community.org. 10:56 davi What would happen to GPLv3/AGPLv3 contribution if the majority choose GPLv2 10:57 davi ? 10:57 thd davi: alternative builds perhaps 10:57 slef OK, I proposed anti-privatisation and linkback requirements. 10:57 davi thd, ack 10:58 chris i say list everyone or list no one 10:58 slef I feel that it's a mistake to link from koha-community to koha companies that oppose the community, through either holding domains/TMs/other legal tricks, or by linking only to other community sites. 10:58 thd +1 chris 10:58 eiro_ hello world 10:59 slef chris: why do you want to force it to be all or nothing? 10:59 davi I propose list no one 10:59 chris why dont you? 10:59 larsw I propose keeping the list in the wiki, and allowing anyone to list themselves if they provide Koha services of any kind; if there's a dispute, the next monthly meeting on irc can vote on it 11:00 chris id support that, lets just pull it from the koha-community site and put it on the wiki 11:00 slef chris: I think supporters of koha-community should be supported by the site in turn. 11:00 davi it is unfair under current implementation 11:00 davi some get lost of hits other none 11:00 slef I think keeping the list in the wiki advantages companies with marketing staff or possibly wikirobots. 11:00 chris im serious about just removing it 11:00 davi Also it is unfair under "contribution and community involvement" principle 11:01 chris because i think this is a total waste of time 11:01 davi chris++ 11:01 davi and unfair, lot of unfair 11:01 davi Type3 has removed it 11:01 slef I think if no list is offered by the main site, there will be lots of worse lists created by others. 11:02 davi each provider can have one 11:02 chris lets paint it orange!! 11:02 davi chris++ 11:02 thd I agree with slef's concern about how the wiki might too easily become on topic spam 11:02 slef and people picking at near-random from search results (which is OK for us, but not great for the community). 11:02 davi Let allow Google work 11:03 slef chris: if you don't want to do the work, please stand aside. 11:03 chris like i was ever in the way 11:03 chris good grief 11:03 slef So no-one's willing to support a list with requirements. I guess that only leaves the wiki as viable. 11:04 reed the problem w/reqs was, as discussed a while back, that application becomes a pain 11:04 davi I prefer a wiki with requirements that current state 11:04 davi I fear a wiki would be even worse 11:04 slef chris: so you were heckling or joking that "im serious about just removing it"? 11:05 thd davi: Google is not the solution to life. I suspect that you would have difficulty finding all the companies providing Koha support using Google alone without an explicit list for Google to index. 11:05 chris im serious that i think we should just remove it 11:05 reed i think having a list of support companies has value to people wanting to use koha -- but I sell services so it's in my interest 11:05 chris its not like im going to go delete it now or something 11:05 chris and you know that 11:05 slef reed: as I mentioned a while back, it depends on the requirements. LibLime's requirements weren't great, shall we say. 11:05 davi chris, That is because a good listing should be set up: 11:05 davi a map? 11:05 davi a geographic listing? 11:05 davi a by language listing? 11:05 thd davi: Google disadvantages new websites in their weightings generally. 11:05 reed slef, I'm not up on what those were 11:06 slef reed: people ask on list for a list occasionally 11:06 davi Current listing is very unfair 11:06 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Merge branch 'translation' of git://git.workbuffer.org/git/koha into to-push <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=469b32f3180831b1946257b6bcb07699c713f226> / System Preference updates <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=f4e77ec1df31cedf88cbde3aa6a81a782780fc10> / Raft of language updates <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=6a495a010d9d33c45 11:06 reed davi, agree a randomiser would be better than a static list 11:06 slef reed: want me to find them? 11:07 davi We have the past and current experience. I am sure we can work out a better and fair listing 11:07 davi reed ++ 11:07 reed slef, only mildly curious -- more interested in what the best thing to do is 11:07 davi randomised listing ++ 11:08 gmcharlt ok, let's step back a minute 11:08 davi Each month such random could be changed 11:08 davi randomised logos table at top 11:08 thd When the issue became controversial there was some support for multiple pages with different ordering of those listed allowing the user to choose a preference for the presentation of material. 11:08 davi Current listing without logos is not good 11:08 gmcharlt as far as the format of the list is concerned, I know that wizzyrea has expressed willingness in the past to work on doing things like adding maps, providing sorting optoins, etc. 11:09 gmcharlt so I'd like to suggest that we not discuss formatting issues for now 11:09 gmcharlt and go back to the requirements questions 11:09 davi thd, different orders is not good idea. Better randomised, maybe changed each month 11:09 gmcharlt as I understand it, slef is proposing adding two requirements 11:09 gmcharlt (a) Can we add a solidarity clause? 11:09 gmcharlt (b) requirement to link back to koha-community.org 11:10 davi (a) ++ 11:10 thd davi: randomised could be one of the orders :) 11:10 davi (b) ++ 11:10 davi thd, randomised should be the default order 11:10 davi if any other is added 11:10 reed b+++, a0 seems too thorny to manage 11:10 slef (it's nice to see that I actually agree with davi on something after that AGPL3 discussion ;-) ) 11:11 davi we both are good guys, so at the end we agree :) 11:11 chris b i could live with 11:11 gmcharlt as far as the solidarity clause is concerned - IMO, there are a number of problems defining it - obviously one vendor suing another is bad, but one *can't* always determine whether such action has anything to do with community interests; there is always the possiblility of a plain old commercial dispute 11:11 chris a is going to get messy fast 11:12 Colin although it sounds a bit needy 11:12 thd On the mailing list, the concern was expressed about who will judge (a) 11:12 hdl_laptop solidarity clause could be better managed with a Koha kaitiaki group. 11:12 slef b might actually equate to a in practice - if they have their own koha astroturf site, they probably won't link back to koha-community.org 11:12 davi the community, we, here 11:12 hdl_laptop But could really be messy to implement just now. 11:13 thd Ensuring objectivity about (a) could be difficult 11:13 davi it would be a get-out what we are sure if obvious bad 11:13 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: right - we don't have an active individual kaitiaki at present, and while a kaitiaki committee may be a good alternative, it would take time for it to be formally constited and build credibility 11:14 slef so I'd settle for b alone 11:14 slef let's drop a for now 11:14 vokalrcp Start w/ b, revisit a if problems actually arise. 11:14 tajoli Hi to all, also I for b) only, now 11:14 reed refinement of b -- link should be not tiny and appear on same page that we're linking to 11:15 hdl_laptop and then and then... 11:15 davi +1 11:15 reed maybe have a community badge image 11:15 cait and there the problems start... 11:15 slef Colin: linkback is common practice even for some paid-for listings. 11:15 thd reed: For those interested, language about prominent could be borrowed from GPL 3 / AGPL 3 11:15 Colin b is already going to start generating loads of legalese 11:15 * gmcharlt calls for a vote 11:15 gmcharlt I'm going to split it into too 11:15 gmcharlt first 11:16 cait Im for different sorting options and 'offering koha services' without additional requirements 11:16 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Update FSF address in debian/copyright. <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=79d5a0fce8599719ba7a0408bc60014a1a9b559c> / Upgrade Koha instance database schema when package is upgraded. <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=5b12c69f27cf468068e03310bea23ab9f4e49fb2> / Fix bug 4818: Add note to koha README.Debian to maybe disable default vhost. <http://git.koha-community.or 11:16 slef reed: search engines don't care about tiny. Same page makes it easier to check. 11:16 thd I am not certain what (b) entails 11:16 davi (b) requirement to link back to koha-community.org 11:16 slef Let's let gmcharlt state some precise wording for it. 11:16 Colin I think b means we revisit the argument monthly 11:17 chris Colin++ 11:17 thd Colin++ 11:17 slef Colin-- 11:17 davi Colin-- 11:17 thd slef: perhaps you could explain what you intend (b) to mean 11:17 davi It is just a link back, which is fair 11:18 gmcharlt for new requests to be listed, the vendor listing must link provide a link to koha-community.org; link must be eye-reable and speakable by screen reader software, but with no requirements about the form of the link otherwise 11:18 thd Do you mean that any iamkoha.org site must redirect to koha-community.org? 11:18 gmcharlt thd: no, I do not 11:18 slef thd: gmcharlt's wording accurately captures it. 11:18 gmcharlt merely that the vendor's page listing their Koha services m 11:19 gmcharlt scratch that 11:19 Colin and how is this verified and by whom? 11:19 davi gmcharlt++ 11:19 gmcharlt that the vendor's page listing their Koha services must have the link back 11:19 chris and how often is it verified 11:19 slef gmcharlt: +1 11:19 gmcharlt Colin: verification by the current webmaster, wizzyrea 11:19 reed chris, enforcement department is separate 11:19 davi chris, verified on demand if needed 11:19 davi so soft 11:20 gmcharlt if challenged, to become a matter of public debate 11:20 slef It's verified by finding the link, by anyone handling the listing, reverified on demand and passed to the same process as a listing where "X no longer offers koha services". 11:20 vokalrcp gmcharlt: +1 11:20 kmkale +1 11:20 gmcharlt as far as my own vote is concerned: 0 11:20 davi +1 11:20 hdl_laptop I think that if a vote occurs, it should also be presented to the koha-list. 11:21 Colin definitely vote 0 11:21 chris 0 11:21 larsw -0 11:21 hdl_laptop hi jdavidb 11:21 hdl_laptop 0 11:21 thd 0 11:21 tajoli +1 11:22 davi What about the listing redesign? 11:22 thd hdl_laptop: do you mean that if we vote, subscribers to the list serve should be invited to vote on the issue specifically? 11:22 slef davi: we're already clear to do that. Just add time. 11:22 slef as I understand it 11:22 davi ack 11:24 gmcharlt thd: I agree - in this case, I would prefer that the final vote take place on the mailing list, particularly as, given the time of this meeting, we're discussing this in the absence of wizzyrea 11:24 slef gmcharlt: was there a second part, or do you want to move on to address info@koha now? 11:24 gmcharlt here's the second part 11:24 gmcharlt and this may well have to end up on the mailing list 11:24 gmcharlt what do we do about current listings? 11:25 gmcharlt grandparent them in? clear the vendor listing and ask everybody to resubmit requests? 11:25 slef leave them for volunteers to approach and challenge as/when reasonable? 11:25 reed (for what it's worth I may have changed my mind about this link back req) 11:25 davi I would keep current list up to it be fixed 11:26 thd I suggest we make no change to the policy agreed at the previous meeting until the wide community votes on the issue 11:26 gmcharlt ok, then for now - action item is to put this to the mailing list 11:26 gmcharlt moving on 11:26 gmcharlt I added the info@ item 11:26 gmcharlt my main question: assuming that we want to continue to have info@koha-community.org go somewhere 11:27 gmcharlt where should it go? 11:27 reed i think it's weird to have 11:27 davi koha-devel 11:27 davi because that is the koha community 11:27 slef I've two concerns: debian-style surprising of naive emailers by having their email address appear in a public archive; and auto-responding to spam that gets past the filters. 11:28 reed agree 11:28 davi agrs, spam :( 11:28 davi koha-devel-private (new mailing list) 11:28 slef has anyone written a semi-auto-responder yet? :) 11:28 gmcharlt of the options listed, my preference would be to have it go to a new mailing list that is not publicly archived, but which anybody can subscribe to and feel free to respond to 11:29 davi gmcharlt, ++ 11:29 reed that dilutes the normal list 11:29 thd info@* is a spam magnate 11:29 gmcharlt davi: koha-devel isn't quite right for this purpose - geneally spekaing, somebody who uses the info@ address is a librarian thinking about Koha and wanting basic information 11:29 larsw I suggest we have a committee to receive the e-mails, and have a a committee election every three months, using the condorcet system; the committee will be required to provide bi-weekly summaries of all mail recevied by info@, removing any names and other information that is sensitive, using their best judgement; to make sure the committee behaves, we should also have a randomly selected auditor verify that randomly selected committee reports 11:29 larsw are accurate; all companies listed on the support provider list are eligible to provide one candidate for the committee 11:30 davi gmcharlt, koha-devel-private (new non-public mailing list) 11:30 thd reed++ 11:30 larsw (sorry); more seriously, I suggest forwarding info@ to webmaster@ until such a time as it becomes an undue burden on the webmaster 11:30 davi larsw, too much bureaucracy , the above proposal 11:31 slef gmcharlt: yes, I think a new list is the best of the options listed, with a basic documented-on-wiki manner of replying. 11:31 davi new mailing list++ 11:31 davi private 11:31 gmcharlt OK 11:31 slef once it emerges, that is 11:31 gmcharlt then I suggest it be called koha-info-private@lists.koha-community.org 11:31 gmcharlt (sorry davi, this isn't really for development purposes) 11:32 davi I propose the name of that list be "koha-devel-private" in pro of Koha developers, the community. 11:32 thd davi: larsw was intending to be humorous if I understood correctly 11:32 slef just so we don't necessarily get a newbie piling into koha-info and sending loads of adverts and then going "but no-one told me" 11:32 slef larsw: too much time around debian? 11:32 chris the community isnt just the developers davi 11:32 chris we arent even the most important part 11:32 davi ok 11:32 davi koha-info-private@ ++ 11:33 gmcharlt ok, 11:33 cait koha-info-private++ 11:33 slef I don't care about name. Whoever creates it can pick. 11:33 davi name are good. I like mine 11:33 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: paul_p: on to you: can you go ahead and set up such a mailing list and have info@koha-community.org forward to it? 11:34 hdl_laptop ok 11:34 thd gmcharlt: what is the function of such a list? 11:34 gmcharlt thd: the function is to provide a point of contact for a new user to ask basic questions 11:34 reed yeah, who's answering these mails? and why not use the existing schemes? 11:35 kmkale i thought hats what koha@ was for.. 11:35 slef reed: existing scheme? 11:35 gmcharlt proper response of people subscribed to that list would be to respond, but more importantly to direct the newbie to the appopriate forums 11:35 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: who should be subscribed to that list ? 11:35 reed slef, the koha mailing list 11:35 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: anybody who cares to respond to such emails 11:35 thd What is the equivalent Debian list named? 11:35 slef reed: redirecting private email to a public-archive list without warning seems a bit rude. 11:35 * mason says 'hi', just got home... 11:35 reed slef, agree, should kill info@ 11:36 gmcharlt the main reason I brought this up in the first place was because an info@koha.org existed, but only had limited distribution 11:36 slef gmcharlt: alternative proposal from reed 11:36 davi good being it set private 11:36 thd gmcharlt: You suggested including private in the list name. What is intended by private? 11:37 davi name format to show it is not public archive 11:37 davi you know 11:37 slef reed: is your proposal best as: reject it with an SMTP error saying "please see http://KOHALISTWEBPAGE" ? 11:37 reed i propose we not have an info@ address because it creates an possible silo situation 11:37 kmkale kill info@ ++ 11:37 davi reed, describe "silo situation" 11:37 reed slef, that's be a cool end of life scheme 11:38 slef davi: data in, nothing out 11:38 davi anyone can reply, as in current way 11:38 reed by "silo" -- a separate mailing list, would create a ghetto of newbie info 11:38 davi that is what info@ if about 11:38 reed seems better to keep things simple 11:38 davi is* 11:39 reed agree, just not that that's a good thing 11:39 davi simple design does not cope with complex reality 11:39 reed also - I don't feel as strongly about this as it may appear 11:40 chris if there is no info@ address, they cant mail it 11:40 reed just seems clunky 11:40 chris thats fairly simple 11:40 thd I agree with reed's point about the hazard of creating a ghetto if a mailing list for newbies is intended. 11:40 gmcharlt thd: it's never been a newbie zone as such; just a single email address that somebody who is completely unfamiliar to Koha can email for general information about the project 11:41 davi to be redirected-guided as per need 11:41 gmcharlt as I suggested, proper response is to answer the question, but also redirect the questioner to other forums for their question 11:41 davi It is the usual "information" point 11:41 reed sounds labour intensive 11:41 gmcharlt I fully expect that this would be a low-volume list 11:41 reed can't we use computers for that? 11:41 gmcharlt but I'm just as happy not having an info@ address 11:41 thd gmcharlt: your suggestion on the wiki meeting agenda was for an autoresponder if I undertstood. 11:42 gmcharlt and just simply replacing references to info@koha.org in the code and other places with inks to the website 11:42 gmcharlt so, howabout this for a vote: replace references to info@koha.org with a link to http://koha-community.org whereever they appear? 11:42 tajoli IMHO is better to replace info@koha.org with link to comunity site 11:42 reed +1 11:43 magnus +1 11:43 tajoli +1 11:43 kmkale +1 11:43 davi +1 11:43 chris +1 11:43 hdl_laptop +1 11:43 larsw +1 11:43 vokalrcp +1 11:44 thd +1 11:44 cait +1 11:44 davi and what if the want to contact via email? 11:44 davi what list should they choose? 11:44 davi no info@ ? 11:44 cait koha 11:44 gmcharlt the main Koha mailing list 11:44 davi +1 11:44 slef +1 11:44 Colin +1 11:45 slef and put an SMTP error with that link on info@koha-community.org ideally 11:45 reed slef+ 11:45 gmcharlt if BibLibre is willing to set that up, I'm happy with that 11:46 hdl_laptop ok 11:46 gmcharlt ok, so moving on to setting the time of the next meeting - Wednesday, 4 July at 19:00 UTC+0 ? 11:46 davi +1 11:46 davi to me. 11:47 vokalrcp +1 11:47 kmkale cant we make it like 15:00 UTC? 11:47 kmkale 19:00 is half past midnight here 11:47 kmkale :( 11:47 thd gmcharlt: As you know, that is a national holiday in the US. 11:47 Colin Don't you folks want to party or something on the 4th 11:47 * gmcharlt blinks 11:47 vokalrcp You mean the 14th? 11:48 * gmcharlt turns in his US citizen's card ;) 11:48 larsw wed 4 july? isn't 4 july a sunday? 11:48 chris 15 UTC is 3am here kmkale 11:48 kmkale ;) 11:48 * gmcharlt also can't read a calendar 11:48 larsw or did I do spontaneous time travel again? 11:48 gmcharlt let's try this again 11:48 hdl_laptop and 17PM here... 11:48 gmcharlt Wednesday, 7 July at 19:00 UTC+0 ? 11:49 vokalrcp +1 11:49 tajoli +1 11:49 davi +1 11:49 thd +1 11:49 chris ok for me 11:49 hdl_laptop +1 11:49 magnus +1 11:49 larsw +1 11:49 Colin +1 11:49 gmcharlt kmkale: that's why we've mostly been alternating between 10:00 UTC+0 and 19:00 UTC+0 11:49 kmkale cool 11:50 gmcharlt ok, thanks everybody 11:50 vokalrcp ciao 11:50 reed g/nite 11:50 hdl_laptop thanks slef and gmcharlt 11:51 slef thanks all 11:51 larsw thanks and bye 11:53 cait gmcharlt: still around? 11:53 magnus thanks folks! before everybody dissapears: is anyone here going to ELAG in Helsinki next week and interested in some kind of koha meetup? 11:55 chris id love to say yes :) 11:55 hdl_laptop id love too 11:55 cait me too, but cant 11:55 * jwagner is sorry to have missed the meeting :-( 11:56 thd magnus: I would appreciate any notes which you may take at ELAG about various national plans for RDA implementation. 11:56 magnus thd: i'll keep my ear to the ground 11:57 slef I think my next big event is http://www.congress.coop/ in Plymouth 25 June. 11:59 gmcharlt hi cait 12:00 cait hi gmcharlt 12:00 cait sorry for bugging you 12:00 cait I have two patches ready but not sure what to do with them 12:01 cait the first one is adding $w subfields to all marc21 frameworks, including all existing translations 12:01 cait except german, because I just sent a patch for that, would do a follow up 12:01 cait and the second add an index record-control-number on those $w fields 12:01 gmcharlt cait: just go ahead and send them - if I don't accept them for 3.2, they will be pushed to a topic branch for inclusion in 3.4 12:02 cait ok, thx, will send them today 12:02 cait would make my life easer if they got in, but I can understand if they have to wait till 3.4 :) 12:04 cait and im not good in managing/merging branches yet, so happy to have them send 12:08 * gmcharlt is heading out now, off to a library guarded by a dinosaur 12:09 nengard gmcharlt - i'm on a roll :) closed a lot of bugs so far this AM - glad to see so many were fixed even though they weren't marked at patched :) 12:09 gmcharlt nengard++ 12:09 nengard of course it means lots of emails :) 12:09 cait gmcharlt. be careful :) 12:11 owen Whoa, hello Bugzilla emails. 12:11 cait batch edit 12:12 cait you can delete most of them ;) 12:12 owen Sorry to miss the meeting folks, that meeting time is pretty much the worst possible for me. 12:14 slef owen: sorry to miss you 12:14 nengard owen - sorry about that - but some of the more recent emails are for you :) 12:15 owen What is the purpose of adding koha-bugs as the QAContact? 12:15 nengard hey - is it just me or were we used to place holds on multiple items via the search in the staff client before? that option isn't showing for me anymore 12:15 chris theres a syspref for it nengard 12:15 nengard thanks chris - off to find it 12:16 chris owen: means the mailing list gets an email when the bug is changed 12:16 chris which is pretty handy 12:16 owen Hm... so if I'm subscribed to the list I should turn off all Bugzilla emails 12:17 chris if you dont want a double up, yep 12:18 chris i just read the archives 12:18 chris and get mail for bugs im assigned to 12:18 nengard I don't mind the doubles cause it's gmail and it puts them in a thread 12:20 kmkale chris: anything further about that fastcgi irc chat? 12:22 chris im delaying it to post 3.2 12:22 chris its all to easy to get excited about new stuff 12:23 chris and ignore the boring fix the bugs stuff 12:23 chris so we can release 12:26 cait chris++ 12:26 kmkale yeah chris++ but would have loved to have a sneak peak ;) 12:34 chris :) 12:35 * owen recalls the release-schedule problem happening for the release of 3.0 as well 12:37 jwagner Morning, folks. 12:37 cait morning jwagner 12:37 cait I think we should talk about release schedules, but concentrate on finishing 3.2 now 12:38 jwagner If the syspref AllowHoldPolicyOverride, it should allow staff to override & place a hold, regardless of whether the staff is a superlibrarian, correct? So long as staff person has permissions to do circ? 12:41 jwagner Never mind -- problem is more with having independent branches on than with lack of superlibrarian privileges. Sigh. 12:45 chris right, i better get some sleep 12:45 chris cyas later 12:45 cait good night chris 13:00 owen I haven't read through the meeting log yet... Did we schedule a bug-squashing session? 13:03 nengard owen - i don't remember seeing one scheduled - but gmcharlt asked us all to go through our bugs and close the ones we can 13:03 nengard which is why you're getting so many emails from me 13:03 nengard i'm through 140ish and have about 60 more to go! 13:04 owen Oh by the way nengard, I didn't forget your question about the OPAC logo image, but I did decide that the original is lost 13:04 owen I'm trying to figure out the best way to recreate it and what format to share it in 13:04 nengard owen - i on the other hand ... did forget :) hehe 13:04 nengard we'll want something with layers that's easy to edit the bg on 13:05 nengard do we know what the Koha font is? 13:05 nengard if so I can probably recreate it 13:05 nengard or maybe i can recreate it using the big original logo I have 13:05 nengard http://wiki.koha-community.org/w/images/Koha-logo-black-and-white.jpg 13:06 KingNAMS Hi all...I'm new to Koha (and linux as well to be honest) but I'm learning! I just wanted to introduce myself to the community! 13:06 cait hi KingNAMS and welcome 13:06 owen nengard: The svg version of the staff client logo would be a better place to start if you want to roll your own 13:06 KingNAMS thanks! 13:06 nengard welcome KingNAMS 13:07 nengard where is the svg? 13:07 nengard sorry that was for owen - where is the svg 13:07 owen misc/interface_customization/koha3-staff-client-logo.svg 13:08 nengard thanks 13:08 owen For some reason that logo doesn't *precisely* match the OPAC one, but I'm not sure where the differences came from 13:08 owen If Rachel ever told me what the font is I've forgotten, and I can't find the info in my email archive 13:08 owen But I'll bet she knows 13:09 cait KingNAMS: where are you located? 13:09 owen (although it may not help if it's an expensive font) 13:09 KingNAMS cait: Alabama 13:12 cait KingNAMS: ah, I m from Germany. :) perhaps you may want to introduce yourself on the mailing lists too. 13:13 KingNAMS cait: ok, thanks...I just signed up the other day but have just been reading so far 13:14 KingNAMS well, gotta go! talk to you all later 13:14 cait bye :) 13:14 cait good morning jdavidb :) 13:14 jdavidb hi, cait! :) 13:15 cait oh, my first merge conflict 13:18 kmkale hi jdavidb 13:19 jdavidb howdy, kmkale! :) 13:20 cait how do I tell git, use master and avoid my changes? 13:27 hdl_laptop git reset --hard HEAD 13:27 hdl_laptop git reset --hard ORIG_HEAD 13:27 slef other than that, tell your merge tool to use master where there is a conflict 13:29 cait butwith git reset I would loose all changes to the other files? 13:29 slef yep 13:29 cait I just want him to ignore one change that got in there by accident 13:29 cait and causes my problen now, because I wrote a patch for that 13:29 slef one change or one file? 13:29 cait one file 13:29 slef if one file, edit the file and resolve manually 13:30 slef search for <<<< to find the start of the conflict 13:30 cait never done that :( 13:30 slef it's no harder than editing the file ordinarily 13:30 slef there are slicker ways to do it, with git mergetool and similar, but you don't need to 13:31 cait ok, lets have a look at the file 13:31 slef another way is to "git merge -s recursive -Xtheirs" but I can't remember if you can do that after reaching a conflict 13:31 slef (merge, recursive strategy, resolve conflicts by preferring their version) 13:32 slef or -Xours if you want to prefer the current branch 13:37 cait I see no markers in the file :( 13:38 cait ok, found them 13:40 cait slef: can you take a look at the code plz? I dont know what to do with it http://pastebin.com/93kFR0k1 13:42 slef looking 13:42 cait thx a lot 13:42 slef looks like a null change... only whitespace, perhaps? 13:43 slef To favour HEAD, delete the <<<<<<< HEAD:... line 13:43 slef then delete the ===== to the >>>>> BUG 4499: line and everything between 13:43 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4499 normal, P5, ---, katrin.fischer, RESOLVED FIXED, Javascript erorr messages not translatable 13:43 slef ends up looking like http://pastebin.com/VL1UFb29 13:44 cait will try that, thank you! 13:45 cait it worked! slef++ 13:46 slef :) 13:46 slef That's a strange conflict, though, only being in whitespace 13:48 cait I think I confused my branches at some point. I wrote the patch for bug 4499. 13:48 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4499 normal, P5, ---, katrin.fischer, RESOLVED FIXED, Javascript erorr messages not translatable 13:50 hdl_laptop slef: yes but sometimes happens. 13:52 nengard done! I have gone through all of my bugs and closed like 30 of them 13:52 nengard updated even more 13:52 nengard now you all have to do the same with your bugs :) 13:53 slef "The username or password you entered is not valid." 13:54 slef "There is no user named 'mjr@ttllp.co.uk'." 13:54 slef OK, did I miss something? :) 13:55 owen slef, on Bugzilla? 13:56 slef yep 13:56 owen Did you register in the new Bugzilla before the bug migration? 13:58 slef No. Didn't know I had to. 13:58 slef I'm a bit behind with mailing lists. 13:58 owen Yeah, chris sent out an email I think 13:58 owen jwagner had to go through this process too, but it can be corrected 13:58 slef ok, that explains it. Thanks. What happens about bugs assigned to my old username? 13:59 owen I think chris can fix it 14:00 slef Anyone else find that links from the table of contents in http://koha-community.org/koha-newsletter-volume-1issue-5-may-2010/ don't work? 14:00 owen Yes 14:00 slef known bug? 14:01 owen Don't know... wizzyrea online? 14:01 slef found http://koha-community.org/bugs-koha-community-org/ - wonder if the strange character at the start stopped it appearing in my feedreader :-/ 14:04 nengard slef - i found that the first 2 don't work - but the others do 14:04 slef the open day one didn't work for me 14:04 nengard i do the newsletter 14:04 nengard hmmm - will check 14:04 slef looked like maybe missing / but I can look closer if you can fix it 14:06 nengard slef try now 14:06 nengard it was missing anchors in the code 14:06 nengard i was pretty sick last month and rushed the newsletter 14:10 slef np 14:10 slef will check as soon as I find the window again :) 14:12 slef nengard: it's still behaving a bit oddly for me, reloading it on each click. 14:12 slef nengard: links are like <a href="http://koha-community.org/koha-newsletter-volume-1issue-5-may-2010#present"> instead of simply <a href="#present"> 14:12 nengard yeah that's the only way we could get those links to work 14:12 nengard doing just #present won't work 14:12 nengard cause the TOC appears on a page by itself 14:12 slef not from front page to body 14:13 slef does ...2010/#present"> not work? (with a /)? 14:13 nengard nope 14:13 nengard wizzyrea and i went through all options 14:13 nengard when we started 14:13 nengard and this is the only solution 14:13 slef wow 14:13 nengard unless i put the full text of the newsletter on the home page as it's published 14:13 nengard which is a bit much 14:13 slef indeed 14:13 nengard so it's just a bit weird ... 14:14 slef wonder what's caused this... I'm sure I've done internal links on my blog before 14:17 tomascohen @wunder Cordoba, Argentina 14:17 munin tomascohen: The current temperature in Cordoba, Argentina is 10.0�C (10:00 AM ART on June 02, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Windchill: 7.0�C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Falling). 14:17 schuster @wunder 75035 14:17 munin schuster: The current temperature in Hunter's Creek - KE5VBO, Frisco, Texas is 31.8�C (9:19 AM CDT on June 02, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: 20.0�C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010.0 hPa (Rising). 14:18 owen Hi schuster 14:18 slef @wunder Weston-super-Mare, SOMERSET 14:18 munin slef: The current temperature in Weston-Super-Mare, United Kingdom is 19.5�C (3:20 PM BST on June 02, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 30.14 in 1020.5 hPa (Steady). 14:19 slef @wunder Weston-super-Mare, United Kingdom 14:19 munin slef: The current temperature in Weston-Super-Mare, United Kingdom is 19.5�C (3:20 PM BST on June 02, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 30.14 in 1020.5 hPa (Steady). 14:19 slef oh, that's changed 14:19 slef wunderground.com used not to find us as part of the UK :) 14:19 schuster Hey Owen... 14:22 slef "Status: NEW, ASSIGNED, REOPENED * Reporter: mjr@ttllp.co.uk = Zarro Boogs found." 14:22 slef OK, I have no bugs. 14:22 slef Looking at mailing list archives to see if this has been covered. 14:31 wizzyrea slef: you might try looking just for mjr 14:32 nengard slef you have no bugs because you had no account 14:32 nengard if chris couldn't find your account then he reassigned bugs 14:32 nengard to the default assignee 14:32 nengard you need to talk to chris to see if he can get those bugs asssigned to you 14:32 nengard or you can search full text for your email 14:32 nengard cause he kept notes of who was the assignee 14:33 wizzyrea ^^ 14:33 wizzyrea what she said 14:33 slef I've emailed the list. I suspect this will become a FAQ. 14:33 slef The bugs db knew our email addresses, so I'm a little sore, but we are where we are. 14:34 slef wizzyrea: are you able to edit the strange character out of the start of http://koha-community.org/bugs-koha-community-org/ please? I can't edit that one. 14:36 nengard slef the db knew our email addresses - but chris couldn't copy over our accout info - login & password, so we had to create an account - you can't assign a bug to someone who doesn't have an account 14:37 nengard wizzyrea and i worked on the links for the newsletter and they are all better now 14:37 wizzyrea he did give us over a week to do it :/ 14:37 * chris_n offers regrets for missing the meeting this morning 14:37 wizzyrea (create the new bugzilla accounts) 14:37 chris_n a trip to the Drs office trumped it unfortunately 14:37 owen I wonder why we couldn't have automatically created accounts with random passwords and had people use the password-recovery 14:37 slef wizzyrea: yeah, I'm about at the first week of April with list emails, though 14:38 slef owen: or just feed email addresses into the account creator so people get three days to complete the creation form. 14:38 slef owen: but what's done is done. 14:40 nengard chris_n we understand- well I do :) hehe 14:40 slef sorry, first week of May I mean :-/ 14:41 * chris_n is trying to kick a persistent case of strep throat :-P apparently acquired while on vacation 14:41 gmcharlt hi chris_n 14:42 gmcharlt sorry to hear about the strep 14:42 chris_n tnx 14:42 * chris_n reads the log 14:52 schuster wizzyrea - did you have a chance to "test" the firefox plugin for circ with 3.2? 14:54 wizzyrea i have not yet 14:55 schuster ok thanks. 14:56 nengard schuster - i have - and it doesn't work - but that might be FF 3.6 as I say in my bug report 15:01 schuster Oh thanks nengard... didn't know there was a bug! Should have looked. 15:01 nengard did you find it - or do you need me to get you a number? 15:33 schuster nengard - I'll find it thanks. 15:38 slef Argh! How do you persuade mediawiki to do a bullet list? Anyone who wants to, please edit http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_Meeting,_June_2_2010#Attendees 15:40 wizzyrea * 15:42 nengard without any spaces before it 15:42 nengard it's in the mediawiki documentation :) you know i'm all about the documentation 15:44 nengard http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:List 15:47 * owen has managed to build a web page which crashes Firefox when he tries to print it 15:47 chris_n owen++ 15:47 * chris_n managed to open enough tabs in Firefox to crash it the other day 15:47 owen yes, it's all part of my plan to take over the world. 15:48 chris_n @quote add <owen> yes, it's all part of my plan to take over the world. 15:48 munin chris_n: The operation succeeded. Quote #76 added. 15:50 wizzyrea chris_n: it's not difficult to crash firefox with tabs. I have a coworker who managed to do it almost every day. So she switched to chrome, and now she can open zillions of tabs and never crash. 15:52 slef hdl_laptop: are you in control of the lists.koha.org -> lists.koha-community.org redirect? It seems to be redirecting the whole archive to mailman 15:52 slef mailman's front page 15:52 slef damn apostrophe next to enter ;-) 15:53 hdl_laptop slef: yes. What is the problem ? 15:54 owen hdl_laptop: It means that if someone finds a link to the mailing list archive in goodle they can't click through to read the original thread. They get redirected to the front page 15:54 slef hdl_laptop: can't we redirect archive pages to the exact page? 15:54 hdl_laptop we are in control of the site, but unfortunately not of the domain. 15:55 slef RewriteEngine on 15:55 slef RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} lists.koha.org 15:55 slef RewriteRule (.*) http://lists.koha-community.org$1 [R=permanent,QSA,L] 15:55 hdl_laptop So we might ask PTFS to do so... 15:55 slef oh, they've done something silly with http://lists.koha.org ? 15:56 jdavidb sending mail to cfouts@ptfs.com would probably work. He'd be the one to take care of it. 15:56 slef ok, will do - who wants cc? 15:58 hdl_laptop slef: I do pleas 15:58 hdl_laptop e 15:59 slef hdl@bib...? 15:59 slef com or fr? 16:01 slef lists.koha.org is also sending 302 Found rather than 301 Moved Permanently which I understand to be keeping options open 16:01 slef curl -I http://lists.koha.org/pipermail/koha-devel/ 16:01 slef if you want to see for yourself 16:02 slef using hdl_laptop's koha-fr instead because that's what's on mailman 16:12 cait owen: around? 16:12 owen Yes 16:12 cait hi, I wanted to ask you to take a look at bug 4504 - but I see now that its assigned to fredericd 16:12 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4504 normal, P5, ---, frederic, NEW, Confirmation messages in opac account not translated 16:13 cait I think because I marked it I18N? 16:14 cait ah, but its still NEW 16:14 cait I had no idea how to fix it 16:14 wizzyrea slef: I think I found your bugs. http://bit.ly/aYdoob 16:15 jcamins_ cait++ # For her work on bug 4506 16:15 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4506 enhancement, P5, ---, katrin.fischer, NEW, Add support of record linking by record control number in $w 16:16 cait jcamins: thx! just preparation for the xslt part, will start with that next week when back at work 16:16 slef wizzyrea: I think I still need chris to reassign reporter, or will adding myself to cc in bulk achieve the same? 16:17 slef wizzyrea: thanks 16:17 wizzyrea yea, you will want to ask him about reassigning bugs to you 16:17 wizzyrea idk about the 2nd 16:24 owen cait: Are the examples which don't work all inside an "onclick" attribute? 16:26 owen (Not that I can see why the standard construction doesn't work in these cases) 16:29 owen Perhaps the single quotes nested within double quotes... 16:31 wizzyrea www.facebook.com 16:31 wizzyrea oh that's way not right 16:31 wizzyrea sigh 16:31 wizzyrea sorry, wrong window 16:34 cait owen: they are all really similar 16:38 cait owen: sorry, I have to leave now, plz let me know if you have an idea where the problem is 16:38 owen cait, I'm working on a patch, maybe you'll be able to test it for me later 16:39 cait owen: I think I can test tomorrow, if thats ok 16:39 * chris_n expects to see wizzyrea's supersecret password typed in the wrong window any moment ;-) 16:40 owen 1234 16:40 wizzyrea S1rs!5uCk5 16:40 owen Oh dang, ignore that everyone! 16:40 cait qwerty? 16:40 wizzyrea oh crap 16:40 wizzyrea ...you all think I really did type my password, don't you 16:41 cait bye all :) 16:41 wizzyrea ...or, I just typed YOUR password 16:41 wizzyrea and you want to know how I know it. 16:41 wizzyrea bum Bum BUM! 16:50 * jdavidb goes and changes several of his passwords, just in case wizzyrea has been reading minds. 16:51 chris_n lol 16:52 wizzyrea hehe 16:52 jdavidb next up, the lobotomy. She can't read my mind, if I lose it! 16:52 wizzyrea lol O RLY? 16:52 rhcl she'll still be able to ssh in 16:52 jdavidb rhcl++ #for making me cackle like a hyena. 17:16 slef If you want to see wizzyrea's password, press Alt+F4 now. 17:16 slef bbl 17:31 slef 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.1 <koha-devel@lists.koha.org>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table' 17:31 slef 17:32 slef life doesn't want me to catch up :-/ 17:33 slef I'll resend those, but that's a task I didn't need. 17:33 slef anyone else having interesting times? :) 17:34 slef actually, it got through to main list (I usually spot and trim crossposts) so I won't bother 17:37 slef one resent 17:37 slef cool 17:37 slef now really bbl 17:38 * chris_n thinks of ticks when he reads "bugs <re>attached"... ich 18:06 owen gmcharlt around? 18:33 * owen discovers the "Creators" tab in system preferences for the first time 18:36 gmcharlt owen: what's up? 18:36 owen Hey, I've been working on cleaning up the staff-side XSL view and ran into a snag 18:37 owen I want to add the "view in OPAC" link, and I figured out how to check the opacbaseurl preference... 18:37 owen ...but I don't know how to get the biblionumber so I can build the correct link 18:40 owen I got as far as: 18:40 owen <a><xsl:attribute name="href">http://<xsl:value-of select="$OPACBaseURL"/>/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=</xsl:attribute><xsl:attribute name="target">_blank</xsl:attribute>Open in new window</a>. 18:48 cait_afk owen: is bibnumer in one of the 999 fields? 18:48 gmcharlt owen: <span class="view"><a id="MARCviewPop" href="/cgi-bin/koha/opac-showmarc.pl?id={marc:datafield[@tag=999]/marc:subfield[@code 18:48 gmcharlt ='c']}" title="MARC" rel="gb_page_center[600,500]">MARC View</a></span> 18:49 gmcharlt an exaple from the OPAC stylesheet 18:54 owen Good one, thanks 18:54 * owen investigates 18:58 wizzyrea lol, nobody got that it was "sirsi sucks?" 18:58 wizzyrea sigh 18:58 wizzyrea I must try harder. 19:00 jdavidb That's like stating, "the sky is up," wizzyrea. It's just the way things are, so no comment was needed. 19:01 owen gmcharlt++ # Just the clue I needed to get it working 19:04 collum jdavidb somehow figured out my password - dSkyS^ 19:04 jdavidb welcome back, cait :) 19:11 cait not really here, just near laptop :) 19:11 cait owen++ 19:22 hdl_laptop slef still there ? 19:29 * owen avails himself of some sql from the SQL reports library 19:33 wizzyrea those libraries have saved my sorry tush so many times 20:06 chrisdroid @wunder wellington,nz 20:06 munin chrisdroid: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 11.0�C (7:40 AM NZST on June 03, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Rising). 20:06 chrisdroid Morning 20:23 richard hi 20:24 mib_mike It's quiet in here 20:42 chris back 20:47 mib_mike chris are you "Chris Cormack"? 20:47 chris sometimes 20:48 chris depends who is asking :) 20:48 wizzyrea are you happy or mad at him? 20:48 chris hehe 20:48 mib_mike Happy, but puzzled 20:48 mib_mike I just found a patch you submitted 20:49 mib_mike Bug 4123 20:49 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4123 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Error in checking whether a checkout can be renewed 20:49 mib_mike But that was submitted in March, and I still needed to apply it to my code downloaded last month 20:50 mib_mike When do these patches get integrated? 20:50 mason heh, i just bumped into that bug last nite 20:51 mason and pinched the new sub from 3.2, looks much saner 20:51 chris mib_mike: what version are you running mib_mike? 20:52 chris and no i didnt make that patch, kyle did 20:52 mib_mike koha-3.02.00-alpha 20:52 chris yeah alpha or alpha2? 20:53 mib_mike I like the patch. I pretty much came to the same conclusion myself independently. 20:53 chris because that patch was pushed april 30th, into master and is in alpha2 20:53 chris http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git&a=search&h=HEAD&st=commit&s=4123 20:54 chris http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commit;h=a1336175fd4b07be9b688791d52e998d55743b7a 20:54 mib_mike alpha 2. 20:54 mib_mike At least that's what I thought. 20:57 mib_mike I really don't understand git is there a resource you'd recommend? 20:57 chris have you read the tutorial on the wiki? 20:57 wajasu what do you think about a way to add an extra site specific xslt stylesheet in the transformation pipeline for the the detail pages via config preferences, so that sites can add customization to formatting without touching installed XSLT. 20:57 chris http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git 20:58 chris i like http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/everyday.html 20:58 chris too 20:59 wajasu then when I upgrade, the custom stuff can come along kind of like the biblio frameworks do. 20:59 mib_mike I looked at that Version Control page, but Koha Revision Control for the public isn't big on explanations. 21:00 mib_mike I'll check out that other site. Thanks! 22:12 libtek Hey all. Is there a way to change a patron from a Patron account to a Home Bound account, or do we have to delete the account and start over? 22:13 libtek Oh, never mind. I found where I can change it. :) 22:13 chris :) 22:13 libtek That was easy. 22:23 cait hi koha 22:23 chris heya cait 22:23 chris up late 22:24 cait yes 22:24 chris jsp ? 22:24 cait played singstar, now too awake to sleep 22:24 chris ahhhh 22:25 chris hi nengard 22:25 nengard howdy 22:25 cait jsp will keep me awake when deadline is near 22:25 nengard doing a very general search for bugs I might have the skills to patch since i'm home alone tonight 22:25 cait hi nengard 22:26 chris http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4448 22:26 munin 04Bug 4448: normal, P5, ---, ian.walls, ASSIGNED, Ampersands in itemcallnumber break XSLT Results display 22:26 chris you could test and close this one nengard 22:27 chris http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4328 22:27 munin 04Bug 4328: minor, P4, ---, chris, NEW, Possibility to add a supplier with a blanc name 22:27 chris and you could test and confirm if this still exists 22:28 chris and bug2003 22:29 chris @bug 2003 22:29 munin chris: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2003 major, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Circulation page offers no information on why checkouts are blocked 22:29 chris confirming if that is still a problem would help a lot 22:29 chris have i ruined your evening yet? or do i need to keep going? :-) 22:30 * cait hides 22:31 chris :) 22:31 nengard was getting a popsicle 22:31 nengard going to test 22:32 chris thanks :) 22:32 * chris goes to watch larsw demo his automated testing 22:39 nengard 2 closed -testing the third 22:46 chris cool 22:46 cait nengard#+ 22:46 cait nengard++ 22:49 nengard :) 23:02 larsw as a quick re-cap of what chris referred to: I have for Python a setup where code modules have corresponding test modules, and my test runner measures coverage when executing that pair... and even if all tests pass, the test suite as a whole fails unless coverage is 100% (not counting explicitly excluded parts of the code) 23:02 larsw and I'm looking for ways to do that in perl as well, to help koha 3.4 have much better test coverage than it does now 23:02 chris testing++ 23:03 larsw http://liw.fi/coverage-test-runner/ being the test runner I wrote for Python 23:04 chris_n hehe "EEEK..." 23:04 chris_n nice error message larsw 23:04 larsw :) 23:11 chris_n heya mason 23:16 nengard on a role - the more tiny patches I write, the more time it frees up for others to write the big ones .... I hope 23:17 chris :-) 23:21 nengard bug 4299 looks like a question - not a bug - anyone agree? 23:21 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4299 major, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Enable to insert new date for issuing 23:24 chris yeah not a bug, plus its for koha for windows .. ie 2.2.8 23:29 cait ok, time to sleep here 23:29 cait good night all :) 23:32 nengard chris - closed 23:32 nengard and wrote another patch :0 23:32 nengard :) 23:32 chris sweet 23:33 larsw nengard++ 23:33 nengard i just wish i knew more how to fix some of the bigger bugs that are bugging me :) 23:34 nengard oh and chris i took your advice - a branch for each patch 23:34 nengard figure if i do it enough it will become second nature - which right now it is not 23:35 larsw takes some time to find out the good workflows with powerful tools like git 23:35 * larsw is still learning 23:52 robin nengard: I do that for my own personal projects, it makes life so much easier. 23:53 nengard i'm the kind of person who likes to close all unused apps - so it's kind of like that with branches - i don't like having a bunch floating out there - but i understand why i need them :) 23:54 robin nengard: yeah, it's just something you have to get used to, the benefits are well worth it. 23:54 chris nengard, i delete them when they are pushed into master 23:54 nengard chris - i plan to! 23:54 chris that way, i know what i have still waiting too 23:55 chris git branch 23:55 chris ohh 4 outstanding 23:55 chris easy peasy pudding and pie 23:55 nengard very good point 23:55 larsw if one doesn't want to remove the branches, for whatever reason, then renaming might be an option 23:55 chris (delete locally that is, i leave them in the remote repo) 23:56 robin chris: the work repo has 945 branches, of which 105 are my local ones :) 23:56 chris time for a tidy up :-) 23:56 robin The nice thing about the git branch method is that they don't get in the way.