Time  Nick              Message
01:17 * chris_n         looks in
01:19 chris             sup chris_n
01:20 chris_n           just wandered by the computer and noticed how slow it was in here :)
01:20 chris             yeah, tis pretty quiet today
01:20 chris_n           hows the conversion going?
01:21 chris             we are in the final testing phase
01:21 chris             leading up to the go live, so getting there
01:21 chris_n           cool
01:21 chris             most of the work has been moving from the frbr like structure, to the 2 tier marc one
01:21 chris             without bustinating everything
01:22 chris             man, savitra is really really helpful on the mailing lists
01:22 chris             savitra++
01:42 chris_n           g'night #koha
01:43 chris             night chris_n
03:52 Amit_G            heya brendan, chris
03:53 brendan           hi Amit_G good morning to you
03:53 Amit_G            brendan: have u try OAI?
03:53 brendan           nope
04:40 brendan           @quote random
04:40 munin             brendan: Quote #70: "<wizzyrea> owen: I have a jquery... um... query for you" (added by jdavidb at 10:30 AM, April 01, 2010)
04:42 wizzyrea_laptop   oh that's a good one
04:42 wizzyrea_laptop   @quote random
04:42 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Quote #19: "<chris> i just want to yell things like don't kick the ball, pass it and Feed the backs" (added by jdavidb at 08:11 AM, July 27, 2009)
04:42 wizzyrea_laptop   lol
04:42 wizzyrea_laptop   this is fun.
04:42 wizzyrea_laptop   @quote random
04:42 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Quote #28: "<owen> I'm glad munin doesn't follow me around all day remembering *everything* I say." (added by jdavidb at 09:14 AM, September 01, 2009)
04:42 chris             ahh scrum methodology
04:42 chris             how i loathe thee
04:42 wizzyrea_laptop   @quote random
04:42 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Quote #68: "gmcharlt: which probably means that library schools ought to rename Cataloging 101 to Identification and Avoidance of Rabbit Holes 101" (added by wizzyrea_laptop at 03:17 PM, March 10, 2010)
04:43 wizzyrea_laptop   I am SO excited about the debian package
04:43 wizzyrea_laptop   so. So. SO excited.
04:43 wizzyrea_laptop   like, squeeing excited.
04:43 wizzyrea_laptop   @quote random
04:43 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Quote #5: "<jwagner> Why is it every Koha rock I turn over produces a zillion (metaphorical) ants, each with a new question????" (added by kf at 09:13 AM, June 12, 2009)
04:43 wizzyrea_laptop   @quote random
04:43 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Quote #64: "<jwagner> Depends on whether you're trying to get intelligent participation, or just saying we're going to do it MY way" (added by brendan at 10:58 AM, March 01, 2010)
04:43 wizzyrea_laptop   oh snap
04:44 chris             lol
04:44 chris             zing!
04:44 wizzyrea_laptop   @quote random
04:44 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Quote #70: "<wizzyrea> owen: I have a jquery... um... query for you" (added by jdavidb at 10:30 AM, April 01, 2010)
04:44 wizzyrea_laptop   munin likes that one
04:44 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "likes" is not a valid command.
04:44 chris             @love
04:44 munin             chris: Error: "love" is not a valid command.
04:44 chris             @hate
04:44 munin             chris: Error: "hate" is not a valid command.
04:44 chris             @feel_mostly_ambivalent_about
04:44 munin             chris: Error: "feel_mostly_ambivalent_about" is not a valid command.
04:44 brendan           @distance love hate
04:44 munin             brendan: Error: "distance" is not a valid command.
04:48 chris             @love fine_line hate
04:48 munin             chris: Error: "love" is not a valid command.
04:49 wizzyrea_laptop   @kneel
04:49 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "kneel" is not a valid command.
04:49 wizzyrea_laptop   munin: why not?
04:49 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "why" is not a valid command.
04:49 chris             @help
04:49 munin             chris: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
04:49 wizzyrea_laptop   munin is
04:49 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
04:49 chris             @plugins
04:49 munin             chris: Error: "plugins" is not a valid command.
04:49 chris             i wonder how you get a list
04:50 wizzyrea_laptop   @list plugins
04:50 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Error: 'plugins' is not a valid plugin.
04:50 wizzyrea_laptop   @list
04:50 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Admin, Alias, Bugzilla, Channel, Config, Dict, Factoids, Filter, Games, Google, Herald, Internet, Karma, Lart, Later, MARC, Math, Misc, News, Note, Owner, Plugin, Quote, Seen, Todo, URL, Unix, User, Utilities, and Weather
04:50 chris             ahh there you go
04:50 wizzyrea_laptop   just like that
04:50 wizzyrea_laptop   apparently
04:50 chris             @help factoids
04:50 munin             chris: Error: There is no command "factoids".
04:50 brendan           nice find
04:50 chris             @help Factoids
04:50 munin             chris: Error: There is no command "factoids".
04:51 eythian           @list factoids
04:51 munin             eythian: change, forget, info, learn, lock, random, search, unlock, and whatis
04:51 brendan           @games
04:51 munin             brendan: Error: "games" is not a valid command.
04:51 chris             ahh ta eythian
04:51 wizzyrea_laptop   @factoid
04:51 brendan           @Games
04:51 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "factoid" is not a valid command.
04:51 munin             brendan: Error: "Games" is not a valid command.
04:51 * wizzyrea_laptop bonks munin on the head
04:51 chris             @whatis koha
04:51 munin             chris: "koha" could be http://www.koha.org/
04:51 brendan           @Games help
04:51 munin             brendan: Error: The "Games" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "help" in it.  Try "list Games" to see the commands in the "Games" plugin.
04:51 wizzyrea_laptop   fumble!
04:51 chris             @learn koha is koha-community.org
04:51 munin             chris: Invalid arguments for learn.
04:51 brendan           @listGames
04:51 munin             brendan: Error: "listGames" is not a valid command.
04:51 chris             @help learn
04:51 munin             chris: (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value.
04:51 wizzyrea_laptop   munin is a supybot
04:51 brendan           @list Games
04:51 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
04:51 chris             @learn koha as koha-community.org
04:51 munin             brendan: coin, dice, eightball, monologue, and roulette
04:51 munin             chris: The operation succeeded.
04:52 Amit_G            @wunder Dehradun
04:52 munin             Amit_G: The current temperature in Dehradun, India is 23.0�C (8:30 AM IST on April 29, 2010). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 53%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 29.78 in 1008 hPa.
04:52 chris             @whatis koha
04:52 munin             chris: "koha" could be (#1) http://www.koha.org/, or (#2) koha-community.org
04:52 Amit_G            @wunder New Delhi
04:52 munin             Amit_G: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 34.0�C (10:00 AM IST on April 29, 2010). Conditions: Unknown. Humidity: 28%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009 hPa (Steady).
04:52 chris             @forget koha
04:52 wizzyrea_laptop   @unlearn koha as http://www.koha.org
04:52 munin             chris: Error: 2 factoids have that key.  Please specify which one to remove, or use * to designate all of them.
04:52 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "unlearn" is not a valid command.
04:52 Amit_G            @whatis linux
04:52 munin             Amit_G: Error: No factoid matches that key.
04:52 brendan           @Games roulette
04:52 munin             brendan: *click*
04:52 wizzyrea_laptop   AHA
04:52 chris             @forget koha 1
04:52 munin             chris: The operation succeeded.
04:52 Amit_G            @whatis perl
04:52 munin             Amit_G: Error: No factoid matches that key.
04:52 chris             @whatis koha
04:52 munin             chris: "koha" could be koha-community.org
04:52 brendan           @learn unlearn
04:52 munin             brendan: Invalid arguments for learn.
04:52 chris             success!!!
04:53 * chris           takes the small wins
04:53 * wizzyrea_laptop highfives chris
04:53 brendan           small_wins++
04:53 Amit_G            @whatis koha
04:53 munin             Amit_G: "koha" could be koha-community.org
04:53 * brendan         throws a highfive too
04:53 Amit_G            @wunder Bangalore
04:53 munin             Amit_G: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 25.0�C (8:30 AM IST on April 29, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 19.0�C.
04:54 brendan           @Games eightball
04:54 munin             brendan: It is possible.
04:54 brendan           @Games coin
04:54 munin             brendan: heads
04:54 wizzyrea_laptop   @Games coin
04:54 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: heads
04:54 wizzyrea_laptop   @list
04:54 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Admin, Alias, Bugzilla, Channel, Config, Dict, Factoids, Filter, Games, Google, Herald, Internet, Karma, Lart, Later, MARC, Math, Misc, News, Note, Owner, Plugin, Quote, Seen, Todo, URL, Unix, User, Utilities, and Weather
04:54 chris             @games monologue
04:54 munin             chris: Your current monologue is at least 1 line long.
04:54 chris             ohh
04:54 chris             @monologue
04:54 munin             chris: Your current monologue is at least 3 lines long.
04:54 chris             @coin
04:54 munin             chris: tails
04:54 chris             there we go
04:55 wizzyrea_laptop   @monologue
04:55 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Your current monologue is at least 1 line long.
04:55 chris             @eightball should i go home now?
04:55 munin             chris: It is possible.
04:55 eythian           @list dict
04:55 munin             eythian: dict, dictionaries, and random
04:55 chris             alright!
04:55 eythian           @random
04:55 munin             eythian: Error: The command "random" is available in the Dict, Factoids, and Quote plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "random".
04:55 eythian           @dict random
04:55 munin             eythian: dan-eng
04:55 eythian           @dict random
04:55 munin             eythian: world95
04:55 wizzyrea_laptop   @factoids random
04:55 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: "koha": koha-community.org; "light-speed": 1.8026175 * 10^(12) furlongs per fortnight; "slef": MJ Ray, webmaster-developer for TTLLP software.coop
04:55 wizzyrea_laptop   @factoid learn wizzyrea as Liz Rea, NEKLS
04:56 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "factoid" is not a valid command.
04:56 wizzyrea_laptop   aw
04:56 wizzyrea_laptop   @learn wizzyrea as Liz Rea, NEKLS
04:56 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: The operation succeeded.
04:56 wizzyrea_laptop   @factoid wizzyrea
04:56 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "factoid" is not a valid command.
04:56 chris             @whatis wizzyrea
04:56 munin             chris: "wizzyrea" could be Liz Rea, NEKLS
04:56 wizzyrea_laptop   @factoid random
04:56 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "factoid" is not a valid command.
04:56 wizzyrea_laptop   oh there you go
04:56 * chris           hands wizzyrea_laptop an s
04:56 chris             @factoids random
04:56 wizzyrea_laptop   OH
04:56 munin             chris: "open-source": open-source; "wizzyrea": Liz Rea, NEKLS; "slef": MJ Ray, webmaster-developer for TTLLP software.coop
04:56 wizzyrea_laptop   der
04:57 chris             ok hometime
04:57 wizzyrea_laptop   later :)
04:58 wizzyrea_laptop   @learn zebra as the bane of our existence
04:58 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: The operation succeeded.
04:58 wizzyrea_laptop   rofl
05:09 brendan           @Games eightball make a drink?
05:09 munin             brendan: NO!
05:09 brendan           @Games eightball have a drink?
05:09 munin             brendan: The answer is a resounding no.
05:10 brendan           wow ok thanks munes
05:11 wizzyrea_laptop   @Games eightball Not even Pina Coladas?
05:11 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: The answer is a resounding no.
05:12 wizzyrea_laptop   Oh come on you crazy teetotaler
05:12 wizzyrea_laptop   @Games eightball Beer?
05:12 munin             wizzyrea_laptop: What are you asking me for?
05:12 wizzyrea_laptop   oh now i've just made you angry.
05:13 wizzyrea_laptop   anyway, good night humans and bots. ttyl. (lol)
06:33 chris             back
06:34 chris             hows the netherlands treatng you paul_p ?
06:34 paul_p            hi chris.
06:34 paul_p            fine, thanks. weather very nice, people very nice.
06:35 chris             excellent, good to hear
06:35 chris             i enjoyed myself when i was there in 1998 too
06:39 chris             good ice cream i remember too
07:24 kf                good morning
07:25 chris             hi kf
07:25 kf                hi chris
07:58 Amit_G            heya kf
07:59 kf                hi Amit_G
09:29 greenmang0        @wunder mumbai
09:29 munin             greenmang0: The current temperature in Mumbai, India is 33.0�C (2:40 PM IST on April 29, 2010). Conditions: Unknown. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: 25.0�C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
09:38 magnus            @wunder bodo, norway
09:38 munin             magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 2.0�C (11:20 AM CEST on April 29, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: -3.0�C. Windchill: -3.0�C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
09:38 magnus            ...and there is 1 cm of fresh snow...
10:01 kf                today is the "day of import problems" *sigh*
10:11 magnus            kf: ouch?
10:13 kf                magnus: ouch
10:24 chris             import problems are never fun
10:25 hdl_laptop        hi all
10:26 chris             hiya hdl_laptop
10:30 chris             have you heard from nahuel?
11:01 BobB              Hi all
11:32 kf                we have to delete a lot of records, will it work to delete entries in biblioi and biblioitems (those records have no items) and reindex?
11:39 chris             yes
11:39 chris             make sure you do a reset tho
11:40 chris             http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/searching/#5
11:44 kf                chris: thx!
11:46 kf                chris++
11:46 kf                @karma chris
11:46 munin             kf: Karma for "chris" has been increased 126 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 125.
11:53 jdavidb           g'mornin, #koha! :)
11:58 chris             hi jdavidb
11:59 chris_n           morning
12:01 chris             hi chris_n
12:16 kf                morning jdavidb :)
12:16 nengard           morning all
12:16 nengard           i'm actually home for a few days before the next trip!!! :)
12:17 nengard           time to do some patching :)
12:18 owen              Hi everyone
12:25 owen              nengard: Re: Bug 4407
12:25 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4407 normal, P5, ---, oleonard@myacpl.org, NEW, view in opac link missing in staff client
12:26 owen              That works for me. Can you double-check?
12:26 nengard           I found the problem - I thought I updated - I'll update now - it's evil xslt in the staff client-
12:27 nengard           Found the problem if you turn off XSLTDetailsDisplay in the staff client then
12:27 nengard           the link is there.  This is a bigger problem than this - basically the XSLT
12:27 nengard           template for the staff client is just a copy of the one for the OPAC and need
12:27 nengard           to be re-written.  Will open a new bug for that if there isn't one already.
12:27 nengard           that's what i added to the bug report
12:28 chris_n           @quote add <nengard> it's evil xslt in the staff client
12:28 munin             chris_n: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
12:28 * chris_n         harrumphs at munin
12:29 jdavidb           @quote add <nengard> it's evil xslt in the staff client
12:29 munin             jdavidb: The operation succeeded.  Quote #72 added.
12:29 chris_n           for some reason munin seems to think someone else owns my nick
12:29 jdavidb           @quote random
12:29 munin             jdavidb: Quote #36: "<pianohacker> first, burn the perl book" (added by jdavidb at 03:12 PM, September 25, 2009)
12:29 chris_n           hehe
12:30 jdavidb           @quote random
12:30 munin             jdavidb: Quote #25: "<wizzyrea> ha, in #koha we don't pick each other's brains... we git pull them." (added by gmcharlt at 03:40 PM, August 14, 2009)
12:31 chris             merge --squash
12:31 chris_n           lol
12:32 owen              What's the command to identify yourself to munin?
12:32 chris             @quote 9
12:32 munin             chris: Error: The "Quote" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "9" in it.  Try "list Quote" to see the commands in the "Quote" plugin.
12:32 chris             @list quote
12:32 munin             chris: add, change, get, random, remove, search, and stats
12:32 chris             @quote get 9
12:32 munin             chris: Quote #9: "pianohacker ponders drumstick->ear as a method of food acquisition...We haven't gone to this good mexican restaurant in a while..." (added by wizzyrea at 04:23 PM, June 19, 2009)
12:32 chris             @quote get 6
12:32 munin             chris: Quote #6: "gmcharlt: kf: hold requests are a plot to sell more aspirin ;)" (added by wizzyrea at 12:13 PM, June 16, 2009)
12:32 chris             gah
12:33 chris             there is some quote that has the command in it
12:33 owen              Only wizzyrea remembers it
12:33 gmcharlt          @quote search register
12:33 munin             gmcharlt: 1 found: #23: "<gmcharlt> /msg munin register nick password"
12:33 chris             that one
12:33 chris             yeah
12:34 owen              and what does it mean if munin says "That name is already assigned to someone."
12:34 owen              Wrong password?
12:35 nengard           reminder to all --  send me those newsletter article ideas!!!
12:36 chris_n           owen: try /msg munin identify nick password
12:38 owen              @quote add <chris_n> owen: try /msg munin identify nick password
12:38 munin             owen: The operation succeeded.  Quote #73 added.
12:39 chris_n           g'morning jane
12:41 jwagner           Morning (but not much good about it, grump)
12:44 * owen            sends sympathy treats to jwagner
12:47 nengard           wow: http://koha-community.org/hlt-koha-committee-report-on-discussions-with-ptfs/#
12:48 * jwagner         thanks owen
12:54 owen              What a great write-up. The community chose well when we entrusted the HLT Committee with this task
13:07 chris_n           very nice writeup
13:08 chris_n           very sad turn of events, however
13:08 magnus            agreed, chris_n
13:11 sekjal            @learn sekjal as Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions
13:11 munin             sekjal: The operation succeeded.
13:11 nengard           sekjal what does @ learn do?
13:12 sekjal            @factiods random
13:12 munin             sekjal: Error: "factiods" is not a valid command.
13:12 sekjal            errr
13:12 sekjal            @factoids random
13:12 munin             sekjal: "open-source": open-source; "koha": koha-community.org; "zebra": the bane of our existence
13:12 sekjal            learn adds to this list, apparently
13:13 sekjal            thought I'd catch up on the last few hours of IRC chatter, and found the @ learn gem.  also, apparently, munin has games
13:14 sekjal            @factoids munin
13:14 munin             sekjal: Error: The "Factoids" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "munin" in it.  Try "list Factoids" to see the commands in the "Factoids" plugin.
13:16 owen              @factoids sekjal
13:16 munin             owen: Error: The "Factoids" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "sekjal" in it.  Try "list Factoids" to see the commands in the "Factoids" plugin.
13:16 owen              ?
13:16 sekjal            I guess I'm not a command
13:16 gmcharlt          @help factoids
13:16 munin             gmcharlt: Error: There is no command "factoids".
13:16 gmcharlt          @list Factoids
13:16 munin             gmcharlt: change, forget, info, learn, lock, random, search, unlock, and whatis
13:16 owen              How do you retrieve a factoid then?
13:16 gmcharlt          @whatis sekjal
13:16 munin             gmcharlt: "sekjal" could be Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions
13:17 sekjal            there we go.  neat
13:18 owen              @learn cormorant as The common cormorant or shag Lays eggs inside a paper bag
13:18 munin             owen: The operation succeeded.
13:18 owen              @whatis cormorant
13:18 munin             owen: "cormorant" could be The common cormorant or shag Lays eggs inside a paper bag
13:18 sekjal            @whatis git
13:18 munin             sekjal: Error: No factoid matches that key.
13:21 sekjal            @whatis munin
13:21 munin             sekjal: "munin" could be supybot http://supybot.sourceforge.net/docs/commands.html
13:22 gmcharlt          @learn munin purveyor of all wisdom
13:22 munin             gmcharlt: Invalid arguments for learn.
13:22 sekjal            @learn munin as your chatbot play who's fun to be with
13:22 munin             sekjal: The operation succeeded.
13:22 gmcharlt          @help learn
13:22 munin             gmcharlt: (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value.
13:22 gmcharlt          ah
13:22 gmcharlt          @learn munin as purveyor of all wisdom
13:22 munin             gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
13:22 sekjal            @help forget
13:22 munin             sekjal: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
13:22 gmcharlt          @whatis munin
13:22 munin             gmcharlt: "munin" could be (#1) supybot http://supybot.sourceforge.net/docs/commands.html, or (#2) your chatbot play who's fun to be with, or (#3) purveyor of all wisdom
13:23 gmcharlt          @list Factoids
13:23 munin             gmcharlt: change, forget, info, learn, lock, random, search, unlock, and whatis
13:23 sekjal            I really need to drink more coffee before attempting to type
13:23 gmcharlt          @Help forget
13:23 munin             gmcharlt: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
13:23 gmcharlt          @help forget
13:23 munin             gmcharlt: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
13:23 gmcharlt          @help info
13:23 munin             gmcharlt: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
13:23 gmcharlt          @help Factoids forget
13:23 munin             gmcharlt: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
13:23 gmcharlt          hmm
13:23 chris             @forget munin 1
13:23 munin             chris: The operation succeeded.
13:23 chris             @whatis munin
13:23 munin             chris: "munin" could be (#1) your chatbot play who's fun to be with, or (#2) purveyor of all wisdom
13:24 sekjal            @forget munin 1
13:24 munin             sekjal: The operation succeeded.
13:24 nengard           @learn nengard as Nicole C. Engard, ByWater Solutions/Koha Doc Manager
13:24 munin             nengard: The operation succeeded.
13:24 chris_n           lol
13:24 sekjal            @learn munin as your chatbot pal who's fun to be with
13:24 munin             sekjal: The operation succeeded.
13:25 chris_n           @factoid random
13:25 munin             chris_n: Error: "factoid" is not a valid command.
13:25 chris_n           @Factoid random
13:25 munin             chris_n: Error: "Factoid" is not a valid command.
13:25 chris_n           @Factoid
13:25 munin             chris_n: Error: "Factoid" is not a valid command.
13:25 chris_n           @Factoids
13:25 munin             chris_n: Error: "Factoids" is not a valid command.
13:26 * chris_n         gives up
13:26 sekjal            @factoids
13:26 munin             sekjal: Error: "factoids" is not a valid command.
13:26 sekjal            @factoids random
13:26 munin             sekjal: "cormorant": The common cormorant or shag Lays eggs inside a paper bag; "munin": purveyor of all wisdom; "nengard": Nicole C. Engard, ByWater Solutions/Koha Doc Manager
13:27 chris_n           @whatis
13:27 munin             chris_n: (whatis [<channel>] <key> [<number>]) -- Looks up the value of <key> in the factoid database. If given a number, will return only that exact factoid. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself.
13:27 chris_n           @whatis fortnight
13:27 munin             chris_n: Error: No factoid matches that key.
13:44 owen              Is anyone familiar with a (fairly) recent change in Koha to allow renewals to be recorded with a branch code in the statistics table?
13:48 sekjal            owen: not just yet, but I could get familiar
13:48 owen              sekjal: At one time some renewals were recorded in the statistics table with no branch. I think it was renewals from the OPAC
13:48 owen              My statistics aren't showing those branchless stats anymore, so I'm assuming it was fixed.
13:49 owen              I'm just curious about what the fix did
13:50 brendan           @Games eightball should I have breakfast yet?
13:50 munin             brendan: NO.
13:50 owen              @Games eightball Did I have breakfast yet?
13:50 munin             owen: You're kidding, right?
13:51 owen              What, do I have powdered sugar on my face or something?
13:52 owen              @Games eightball Will my stats all add up this time?
13:52 munin             owen: _I_ don't know.
13:52 gmcharlt          @eightball will people play with munin all day today?
13:52 munin             gmcharlt: Naturally.
13:52 brendan           :)
13:53 * jwagner         thinks there's too much fun going on. Back to work!
13:53 sekjal            owen: not seeing anything in the code of opac-renew.pl about branchcode specifically
13:55 schuster          jwagner cracking the whip feels sorry for jdavidb...  but would love to see 3.2 in beta release!  So I'm with her!
13:56 * jdavidb         fears jwagner's whip.
13:56 * jwagner         is not really that fearsome. Just grumpy today.
13:57 jwagner           Actually, I could use some input on an idea I had if there are any XSLT experts around.  We've talked about, and there is some provision for, having .css stylesheets live on a separate server & be called via syspref.
13:58 jwagner           Would it be possible to put alternate copies of the XSLT stylesheets on a separate server & have them called via syspref the same way?
13:58 * owen            boggles that his statistics actually added up this time!
13:58 jwagner           That way, sites could customize what fields they want to display without mucking up their system with local code customizations.
13:58 owen              jwagner: I don't know, but I like the idea!
13:59 sekjal            jwagner: that'd be a good idea.  Or allow folks to upload .css, .js and .xsl files to a local directory, then have dropdowns to select from those available
13:59 jwagner           Probably 60% of the customization requests I get are "why can't I display _this_ field in my OPAC?"
14:00 jwagner           I didn't know if there was anything funky about XSLT as opposed to .css files that would need it on the same server.
14:00 owen              The other 40% is "Can you make the book covers dance to the 'Peanut Butter Jelly' song"
14:00 jwagner           owen, haven't had that one yet (thank goodness) but have had some equally wierd ones....
14:01 * chris_n         thinks animated gifs
14:01 sekjal            owen: looking at opac-renew.pl further, I'm seeing the call to AddRenewal is missing the $branch parameter
14:02 * owen            should have checked when he was renewing books this morning
14:02 wizzyrea          jwagner that's a great idea
14:02 wizzyrea          afk one minute :P]
14:02 wizzyrea          and good morning
14:03 jwagner           Hmmmm.  I might do some poking at the XSLT thing then, unless someone knows of a techie reason why it wouldn't work.
14:04 owen              sekjal: Indeed, I just renewed an item from the OPAC and the line in statistics has a NULL branch.
14:05 jwagner           The main concern I can think of is version updates to the main XSLT files wouldn't get reflected over.
14:05 owen              I wonder if my check for NULL branch is not working as I thought it was
14:07 sekjal            the line of code in opac-renewal.pl was added before the changes to the AddRenewal function in C4/Circulation that dealt with branch
14:07 * sekjal          loves git-blame
14:08 * owen            too except when it blames him
14:08 owen              count of NULL branch renewals in 2009 stats: 0. Count in 2010 stats: 8113.
14:10 wizzyrea          jwagner: that's the problem with any customizations like that I think
14:11 wizzyrea          but easier to deal with than if they are THE templates you use
14:11 wizzyrea          you can always fall back to the defaults if they are better than your custom changes
14:11 wizzyrea          can someone point me to a *good* guide to how xslt ^*#@&(% works?
14:12 wizzyrea          I've been looking off and on for two years and still haven't found one that resonates enough for me to understand
14:13 jwagner           wizzyrea, I haven't either.  We have someone in house who speaks it (not in the Koha group) and I've picked his brain a few times.  Also have used http://www.w3schools.com/Xsl/default.asp
14:14 owen              sekjal: Going through my old email, I see an email from Ryan Higgins that says there is a "statistics table fix script" which might include a routine to backfill empty branch in stats
14:14 wizzyrea          jwagner: i will take a look at that, it looks familiar but I may have been seeking answers instead of learning the last time I looked at it.
14:15 jwagner           Mostly I've learned by looking at how other sections work, then copying & trying to adapt.
14:15 wizzyrea          I tried that, but failed (miserably) and then I gave up for a while.
14:15 wizzyrea          (other things to do_)
14:16 jwagner           Always.
14:17 collum            Here's another. http://www.learn-xslt-tutorial.com/
14:17 collum            xslt just seems like too much code for the result. IMO.
14:17 schuster          jwagner and nengard - I was looking at bug 4377
14:17 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4377 blocker, P5, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, cannot confirm hold due to missing letter
14:18 nengard           yes?
14:18 schuster          I see jwagner sent a patch but it wasn't "accepted yet"...
14:18 nengard           k
14:19 schuster          Just wondering if it looks like it would resolve the issue and we should remind gmcharlt it was there?
14:19 jwagner           He knows it's there -- I asked him to check the structure when I sent it in.  Probably hasn't had a chance to get to it yet.
14:19 nengard           it was a pretty recent patch which is why it hasn't gone in there yet, but it will solve the problem - it will also solve the problem if you add an empty template yourself :)
14:19 nengard           using the notices interface
14:20 nengard           under tools
14:20 schuster          Desperately trying to figure out a way to help move 3.2 along.
14:20 jwagner           Yes, as long as it's named HOLD_PRINT
14:20 owen              schuster: You could try dispatching someone to gmcharlt's office to apply shoulder and neck massages?
14:21 gmcharlt          and combat other nuisacnes
14:21 jwagner           Or send large quantities of liquor, chocolate, and gourmet cat food via fedex?
14:21 gmcharlt          at any rate, expect good news by the time of the community meeting next wednesday
14:22 * owen            needs to iron out some conflicts on a patch to send...
14:22 jwagner           What is the time of that meeting?
14:22 * jwagner         can loan owen an ironing board
14:22 * owen            thinks I can haz topic plz?
14:24 jwagner           I did look at http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:start but I don't see one for next week.
14:28 miguel            hi all
14:29 schuster          I saw on jransoms post - Committee would like to call a community handover meeting on 4 May 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0...  but that is a community handover not a development meeting.
14:31 * owen            wishes Google Calendar would interpret "19:00 UTC+0" for me
14:32 * jwagner         can't remember -- are we on Eastern Standard or Eastern Daylight time now?
14:32 wizzyrea          we are CDT
14:33 owen              http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=4+May+2010+at+19%3A00+UTC%2B0
14:33 rhcl              jwagner said: "Or send large quantities of liquor, chocolate, and gourmet cat food via fedex"
14:34 rhcl              rhcl asks: "Does gourmet cat food taste good?"
14:34 * collum          loves wolframalpha.com - http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=what+is+a+hospital
14:34 rhcl              or maybe it does after large quantities of liquor and chocolate
14:34 schuster          The last meeting run by gmcharlt minutes states - 19:00 UTC+0 on 5 May
14:35 schuster          So we have 2 meetings possibly next week?
14:35 jwagner           rhcl, one way to gmcharlt's heart is through his cats' stomachs :-)
14:35 gmcharlt          schuster: yep, two meetings
14:36 chris_n           lol collum :)
14:36 jwagner           gmcharlt, which is when?
14:36 gmcharlt          general on wednesday, community on teusday
14:36 gmcharlt          both 19:00 UTC+0
14:39 wizzyrea          what does this mean: xmlns:items="http://www.koha.org/items"
14:39 schuster          ok to verify 2 pm central 3 pm Eastern - I've missed meetings because I can't convert time well!
14:39 wizzyrea          xml namespace but I don't get it. Gah. I feel dumb.
14:40 owen              schuster: Did that wolframalpha link work for you? That's what I always use
14:46 wizzyrea          collum: I think I'm beginning to see why you say it's too much for the result.
14:46 schuster          Yes I LOVE that link..  that's how I got to the 2 pm central!  Thank you owen!  That needs to be on each of the agenda pages!
14:46 wizzyrea          it's a lot to wrap your mind around.
14:50 schuster          wizzyrea - have you seen this on any of your reports? - bug 2281
14:50 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2281 critical, P3, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, ASSIGNED, holds queue report including unavailable items
14:50 owen              Are there any contenders for alternatives to xslt?
14:51 wizzyrea          I don't believe we've seen that, no
14:55 schuster          wizzyrea - since I know you all use holds quite a bit could you check with a couple of your busy libraries?  Then maybe we could close this bug?  It is almost 2 years old...
14:55 wizzyrea          I just asked sharon, we don't see this bug
14:56 * owen            hasn't heard any reports of this
14:57 wizzyrea          close it, we can reopen if needed
14:58 schuster          gmcharlt - ok with me doing this?
14:58 gmcharlt          schuster: yep
15:02 schuster          done thanks - always freaks me out after you commit in bugszilla that it jumps to the next bug and I think I messed something up!
15:03 gmcharlt          schuster: that's just how bugzilla hands out your next assignment :)
15:04 schuster          Unfortunately I can't handle the assignments!  Guess that's when you start looking for money to pay someone to fix it for you so you can close it and get some glory...
15:04 joetho            @learn MUNIN: "Another busy day at the office!"
15:04 munin             joetho: Invalid arguments for learn.
15:05 joetho            @learn MUNIN: Another busy day at the office!
15:05 munin             joetho: Invalid arguments for learn.
15:05 joetho            @learn munin Another busy day at the office!
15:05 munin             joetho: Invalid arguments for learn.
15:06 joetho            well durn it
15:06 joetho            oh I know ALL about making invalid arguments. Ask my daughters.
15:06 joetho            sigh. back to work.
15:08 schuster          bug requesting feedback - bug 3344
15:08 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3344 critical, P5, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, ASSIGNED, Hold priority list needs additional status for items assigned but not waiting
15:13 schuster          nengard - bug 4320 looks to be included in bug 4151 can we close?
15:13 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4320 blocker, P5, ---, nengard@gmail.com, NEW, Module Text::CSV::Encoded not present in INSTALL instructions
15:13 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4151 blocker, P5, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, ASSIGNED, Document new perl modules for those upgrading
15:13 nengard           will read and combine
15:14 nengard           oh - this is assigned to me - i don't know about this - or how to do this - so yes closing 4151
15:14 nengard           no
15:14 nengard           closing 4320
15:16 schuster          Thanks!  that's 1 blocker down the tube and 1 critical!
15:17 wizzyrea          re bug 3344, when last I looked at that, it was a very good improvement
15:17 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3344 critical, P5, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, ASSIGNED, Hold priority list needs additional status for items assigned but not waiting
15:17 wizzyrea          dk if gmcharlt has done more on it or not
15:19 schuster          Can someone with 3.2 alpha test this and comment?  bug 4116
15:19 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4116 critical, P5, ---, henridamien@koha-fr.org, ASSIGNED, results from cataloging search is different from advanced search results
15:19 wizzyrea          yep one mome nt
15:20 wizzyrea          so this is opac vs. cataloging search, right?
15:20 wizzyrea          just want to make sure i'm testing the right thing.
15:20 schuster          Looks like Advanced search in cataloging from what I read.
15:20 owen              standard staff client search vs. search from cataloging page I think
15:21 wizzyrea          k
15:21 CGI558            greetings everyone
15:21 wizzyrea          mine are the same
15:21 CGI558            i have a question about my marc framework
15:21 wizzyrea          good morning
15:22 wizzyrea          http://screencast.com/t/ODZjZmNjYjU cataloging search
15:22 wizzyrea          http://screencast.com/t/OTgzMzk1NTA regular search
15:23 wizzyrea          let me try one more place
15:23 schuster          what did you search?
15:23 wizzyrea          bear
15:23 CGI558            made the marc bibliografic framework test and i got these error: biblio y biblionumber  	The biblio.biblionumber and biblioitems.biblioitemnumber fields be mapped to a MARC subfield,
15:23 schuster          Ah.
15:23 owen              wizzyrea: that second link isn't the right thing
15:23 wizzyrea          Search link above
15:23 wizzyrea          http://screencast.com/t/NDY5NTZjM2Et
15:24 schuster          what happens if you truncate the search do you get the same thing?
15:25 wizzyrea          1s lemme check
15:26 wizzyrea          http://screencast.com/t/NzYwMzIx
15:27 wizzyrea          http://screencast.com/t/ZmRlNGJkNj
15:27 owen              nengard: did you ever file a bug for the frameworks deletion problem from the other day?
15:27 wizzyrea          all of them look consistent to me
15:28 nengard           owen - no because i haven't re-tested to see if i can make it happen again
15:28 nengard           i've been out of town and now i'm just trying to catch up
15:28 owen              nengard: I observe the same problem. I suspect thd is right about the cause
15:28 wizzyrea          I think TD found an issue there, was in email
15:28 wizzyrea          I've seen it too
15:29 wizzyrea          but a while ago
15:29 nengard           owen do you want to report it or should I?
15:29 wizzyrea          it's really only something that comes up when you're first setting up a system
15:29 owen              nengard: I'll do it since I'm looking at it atm
15:29 nengard           thanks
15:31 sekjal            @learn LDAP as a wicked pain to get working
15:31 munin             sekjal: The operation succeeded.
15:32 slef              yengh
15:32 wizzyrea          hi slef
15:33 slef              today not brill here - how about there?
15:33 gmcharlt          sunny day in florida
15:35 slef              @wunder Weston-super-Mare Somerset
15:35 munin             slef: The current temperature in Weston-Super-Mare, United Kingdom is 12.9�C (4:30 PM BST on April 29, 2010). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 11.0�C. Pressure: 29.73 in 1006.7 hPa (Steady).
15:36 slef              that sums it up here
15:36 slef              even if munin miscapitalises the placename
15:38 owen              Bug 4424
15:38 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4424 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, MARC Framework deletion incorrectly reports usage count
15:38 wizzyrea          @factoids zebra
15:38 munin             wizzyrea: Error: The "Factoids" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "zebra" in it.  Try "list Factoids" to see the commands in the "Factoids" plugin.
15:38 wizzyrea          @list Factoids
15:38 munin             wizzyrea: change, forget, info, learn, lock, random, search, unlock, and whatis
15:39 wizzyrea          @Factoids random
15:39 munin             wizzyrea: "munin": purveyor of all wisdom; "cormorant": The common cormorant or shag Lays eggs inside a paper bag; "light-speed": 1.8026175 * 10^(12) furlongs per fortnight
15:39 owen              @whatis zebra
15:39 munin             owen: "zebra" could be the bane of our existence
15:39 slef              furlongs per fortnight?
15:39 kf                I hope not
15:41 schuster          Since we are on a roll - wizzyrea can you check this one bug 4201
15:41 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4201 blocker, P5, ---, ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com, ASSIGNED, Holds priority listings assigning large numbers
15:41 wizzyrea          no, this isn't fixed
15:41 schuster          drat...
15:41 wizzyrea          sekjal wrote a script to correct the problem
15:41 wizzyrea          but the root is still there
15:41 wizzyrea          whatever it is.
15:42 * wizzyrea        suspects simultaneous processing of holds
15:42 wizzyrea          as the root cause of that
15:42 sekjal            bug 4201 and what you're experiencing, wizzyrea, are a little different, I think
15:42 wizzyrea          I'm not really convinced that they aren't caused by the same thing though.
15:42 schuster          ah I remember an IRC discussion one day about this with you and Sharon doing simultaneous holds
15:43 kf                import problems solved in first library, tidy up second tomorrow *tired*
15:43 kf                bye #koha
15:43 wizzyrea          it's different behavior, that's true
15:43 sekjal            well, my patch to bug 4201 solves part of it
15:43 sekjal            doesn't address simulatenous holds, though
15:43 wizzyrea          that's the corrective script, right?
15:43 * wizzyrea        goes to read, haven't looked lately
15:44 sekjal            I've published both a patch to the bug, and a cleanup script
15:44 wizzyrea          oh I missed the patch, sorry
15:44 wizzyrea          so sorry
15:44 sekjal            wizzyrea: no worries :)
15:44 sekjal            I still want to figure out how to handle simulatenous holds
15:45 wizzyrea          yea, that's a huge deal in a 31, soon to be 33 library shared collection consortium
15:45 wizzyrea          they all process holds at the same time, every day
15:46 schuster          So do we need to create another bug for that? - simultaneous holds?
15:47 sekjal            schuster: in my opinion, yes.
15:47 sekjal            the huge holds priority numbers has been solved by fixing some bad SQL
15:48 sekjal            or, at least that's what I've seen
15:49 wizzyrea          that's done schuster
15:49 wizzyrea          bug 4373
15:49 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4373 major, P2, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, Placing and Processing Items Simultaneously causes multiple issues
15:49 schuster          Ah ok - haven't gone through the "major" ones yet!
15:50 wizzyrea          I"m not sure that this one shouldn't be more critical, but I think it will take more time than we have for 3.2
15:50 wizzyrea          plus $$
15:50 schuster          so 4201 could be closed - sekjal and wizzyrea?
15:50 wizzyrea          I defer to sekjal
15:50 owen              wizzyrea if you're not careful I'm going to assign Bug 2780 to you :P
15:50 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2780 minor, P3, ---, oleonard@myacpl.org, REOPENED, capitalizing strings
15:51 * wizzyrea        sobs
15:51 sekjal            I believe that my patch and cleanup script solve bug 4201, but having more folks test that to confirm would probably be a good idea
15:51 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4201 blocker, P5, ---, ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com, ASSIGNED, Holds priority listings assigning large numbers
15:52 jdavidb           Don't be mean to wizzyrea, owen!
15:53 * owen            couldn't possibly, not while #koha has her back
15:53 wizzyrea          aw
15:54 schuster          If I only understood what that bug is talking about HA HA HA....
15:55 wizzyrea          sekjal: it's looking good from here
15:56 wizzyrea          though look at this:
15:57 wizzyrea          http://screencast.com/t/NjZiYTFmZG
15:59 sekjal            do you know what the priority number is for that last patron?  I mean, as it reads in the database?
15:59 wizzyrea          lemme look
15:59 schuster          it's that custom code nekls has... ;)
15:59 wizzyrea          no, darlings, this is latest 3.2 head ;)
16:00 schuster          oh sorry...  I'm done for today so will go sit in the corner and read a book... :0
16:00 owen              That's what us librarians do all day long anyway isn't it schuster?
16:02 wizzyrea          sekjal: priority 15 on a bib with 7 holds
16:02 sekjal            ewww, that's bad
16:03 sekjal            that sounds like bug 4201
16:03 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4201 blocker, P5, ---, ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com, ASSIGNED, Holds priority listings assigning large numbers
16:03 wizzyrea          BUT. you might take a look near the code that has to do with the pick up branch
16:04 wizzyrea          when the pickup branch is different from the patron's home, it seems to do this
16:04 wizzyrea          the other thing
16:04 sekjal            hmmm...
16:04 wizzyrea          is we were placing holds fast/furious at the same time on this bib
16:05 wizzyrea          6 and this one might have been placed at nearly the same time
16:05 wizzyrea          but I do know that frances has a different pick up branch than the branch I was placing the hold at
16:05 wizzyrea          so I favor that theory
16:06 wizzyrea          (the pickup branch mucks it up theory)
16:06 schuster          speaking of holds when wizzyrea has a minute would you look at but 2655 and indicate if it is resolved?
16:07 owen              Bug 2655 has not been resolved to my knowledge
16:07 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2655 blocker, P2, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, Items waiting on the hold shelf display as "Available" in OPAC
16:08 wizzyrea          not sure, is this what you're talking about? http://screencast.com/t/NjZiYTFmZG
16:08 wizzyrea          er
16:08 wizzyrea          http://screencast.com/t/NjJkN2YzMT
16:08 wizzyrea          2nd, sorry
16:09 wizzyrea          I forget to wait until it says "ok, done, paste it fool"
16:09 schuster          phewy...  have you noticed I'm using different words each time I hit a roadblock?
16:11 wizzyrea          if that's what you're talking about then it looks like it's right to me?
16:11 wizzyrea          http://screencast.com/t/NjJkN2YzMT
16:13 schuster          Yep wizzyrea - not fixed.
16:13 schuster          No it says AVAILABLE still on the item list.
16:13 chris_n           patches flow like water today :)
16:16 owen              What can we do? schuster is cracking the whip!
16:18 brendan           would be nice to have bugs.koha-communtity.org kicking
16:21 nengard           got a question -- does anyone know what libraries are using RFID & Koha - wizzyrea was it your libraries? I know there are some out there - I just can't think of the names
16:21 jwagner           I believe one of ours is -- Middletown Township Public Library.  Not sure of specifics.
16:21 schuster          I know South Central is going to when they go live.
16:23 nengard           thanks guys
16:23 schuster          my work here is now done for today...  I hope it spurred some development...  I have a few things I'm working on but they will probably be 3.4...
16:23 schuster          I just know there are a lot of things hinging on 3.2 right now.
16:27 chris_n           schuster++ #for stirring up patches :)
16:32 slef              nengard: I know some of ours are.
16:32 slef              nengard: most open is CAMLIS who ran the open day.
16:33 slef              nengard: 3M-compatible self-issue machine still causes us problems.
16:33 nengard           thanks slef
16:42 wizzyrea          yep, basehor is using 3m RFID
16:58 wizzyrea          jwagner thanks for the xslt tip... It's kind of, sort of, maybe sinking in a little.
17:04 jwagner           wizzyrea, then you're doing better than I am :-)
17:04 wizzyrea          heh
17:05 brendan           is Kyle Hall's patch, Fines System Updates - Code Cleanup & Additional Features slated to make into 3.2 ?
17:07 gmcharlt          no, that's rather a bit extensive for 3.2, plus there's a counterpatch for partial payments floating out there as well
17:07 brendan           thanks - do you know who sent the counter patch ?
17:08 gmcharlt          Colin, IIRC
17:09 brendan           thanks will look
17:10 jwagner           FYI, Colin's partial payment is our Bug 3498
17:10 munin             04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3498 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, kohaprogrammers@ptfs.com, NEW, Allow partial fine payments
17:23 brendan           @Games eightball will partial payments make it into 3.2?
17:23 munin             brendan: Obviously.
17:23 brendan           there you go gmcharlt
17:23 brendan           patch away according to munin
17:23 gmcharlt          @eightball will munin be the 3.6 release manager?
17:23 munin             gmcharlt: The answer is def-- oooh! shiny thing!
17:23 gmcharlt          just as well
17:24 brendan           munin for president!
17:24 munin             brendan: Error: "for" is not a valid command.
17:26 brendan           @Games eightball does munin have a clue?
17:26 munin             brendan: The answer is def-- oooh! shiny thing!
17:32 DRUlm             What is happening in Koha world?
17:32 jwagner           So now we know how to distract munin -- just wave shiny things around :-)
17:35 slef              DRUlm: http://koha-community.org/hlt-koha-committee-report-on-discussions-with-ptfs/
17:35 DRUlm             Oh yeah, just read it. I think.
17:39 DRUlm             Yes, I did read that.
17:40 DRUlm             I think there could be some positive moves happening, on both sides.
17:40 DRUlm             It looks like it is all a matter of how it will happen.
17:40 DRUlm             If not, everyone may start jumping over to Evergreen ;)
17:40 DRUlm             This is how open source works. Too much infighting and everyone just goes to the competitor.
17:41 DRUlm             Probably in the interest of both parties to come together. But the future will show the evidence of what will happen - could go either way.
17:41 nengard           I don't see it as fighting
17:41 DRUlm             Good!
17:42 nengard           I see it as the community governing itself
17:42 nengard           the community was around before us support companies and communities are the pillar of open source
17:42 DRUlm             Great, then everyone will be free to be you and me
17:43 DRUlm             Be nice to see the code come together, and likely would be good for both parties - I mean, who wants to invest resources to support 2 code bases?
17:44 slef              No-one.  LL pretty much forced us to and we're still recovering.
17:45 cait              hi koha
17:45 slef              hi cait
17:45 DRUlm             Historically, that is costly, and if the branch is not *really* open source, then why not just run something proprietary since there are many choices. If I am not able to change the code anyway, I would just go with a proprietary and get all the bells and whistles - whoever has the most. But the open source advantage is total *local* flexibility, but if it isn't really *open* then I would go with a proprietary.
17:46 slef              Now that's just confusing.  What do you mean by "really open"?
17:46 DRUlm             Many feel the same way.
17:47 gmcharlt          DRUlm: that's assumes that that only advance of open source software is the flexibility - but there are plenty of cases where F/OSS software is better than its proprietary equivalents in terms of its external functionality, and vice versa
17:48 slef              Ours has always been open (FOSS) to our clients, but maintaining a clean-for-publication branch lagged and still isn't complete.  We'll probably just junk part of it eventually.
17:49 * chris_n         wonders who the antecedent to 'many' is?
17:49 DRUlm             cmgharlt: I am not assuming that, I am playing the devils advocate.
17:50 DRUlm             I am in agreement w/ you.
17:52 gmcharlt          DRUlm: yep, I was addressing the statement
17:55 DRUlm             Cool. Good things may happen.
17:55 DRUlm             See ya
17:57 * chris_n         wonders what that was all about
17:58 brendan           @Games coin
17:58 munin             brendan: heads
17:59 chris_n           @Games coin
17:59 munin             chris_n: tails
18:00 gmcharlt          boring game, try this:
18:00 gmcharlt          @marc 505
18:00 munin             gmcharlt: The titles of separate works or parts of an item or the table of contents. The field may also contain statements of responsibility and volume numbers or other sequential designations. (Repeatable) [a,g,r,t,u,6,8]
18:00 gmcharlt          ;)
18:00 slef              gmcharlt: big red error on http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/reports.cgi
18:01 jwagner           gmcharlt, and MARC _isn't_ boring???
18:01 * collum          is curious as to what other Games there are.
18:01 brendan           @marc 691
18:01 munin             brendan: unknown tag 691
18:01 jdavidb           @marc 785
18:01 munin             jdavidb: Information concerning the immediate successor to the target item (chronological relationship). When a note is generated from this field, the introductory phrase may be generated based on the value in the second indicator position for display. (Repeatable) [b,c,d,g,h,i,k,m,n,o,r,s,t,u,w,x,y,z,6,7,8]
18:01 gmcharlt          @list Games
18:01 munin             gmcharlt: coin, dice, eightball, monologue, and roulette
18:01 slef              @marc 952
18:01 munin             slef: unknown tag 952
18:01 slef              someone teach munin Koha ;-)
18:01 jwagner           @monologue
18:01 munin             jwagner: Your current monologue is at least 1 line long.
18:01 slef              @marc 785$c
18:01 munin             slef: unknown tag 785$c
18:01 gmcharlt          @marc 785 c
18:01 munin             gmcharlt: Qualifying information
18:02 jdavidb           @Games roulette
18:02 munin             jdavidb: *click*
18:02 slef              @roulette
18:02 munin             slef: *click*
18:02 * jdavidb         raises an eyebrow
18:02 slef              jdavidb: never plaid russian roulette?
18:02 jdavidb           oh!  Russian roulette.
18:02 * collum          is waiting for a loud boom
18:02 slef              played even
18:02 slef              collum: your turn
18:02 collum            @Games roulette
18:02 munin             collum: *click*
18:03 gmcharlt          slef: guess the relevant graphics libs weren't reinstalled when the LL-hosted things were moved a week or so ago
18:03 * jdavidb         has a list of people to suggest handing the pistol to...
18:03 chris_n           hehe
18:03 slef              jdavidb: if it goes bang on the first PTFSer, can we blame karma?
18:04 jdavidb           @karma PTFS
18:04 munin             jdavidb: Karma for "PTFS" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1.
18:04 slef              PTFS--
18:04 slef              let's correct that
18:04 * jdavidb         , being non-autonomous, remains mute.
18:04 slef              jdavidb: looks like your turn...
18:05 brendan           @Games roulette
18:05 munin             *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
18:05 * munin           reloads and spins the chambers.
18:05 brendan           ouch
18:05 slef              I think non-autonomous workers should be illegal, but I'm just an aging leftie.
18:05 nengard           okay - did I read the backlog right? munin knows marc??
18:05 * jwagner         thought there was a gentleperson's agreement about not attacking us personally?
18:05 slef              jwagner: munin is not a person.
18:06 chris_n           PTFS++ # for at least having the wisdom to hire jdavidb && jwagner
18:06 jdavidb           kinda-sorta, nengard.  It doesn't seem to know it very well.
18:06 nengard           that's kind of cool
18:06 slef              useful to know, indeed
18:07 gmcharlt          nengard: it's from a supybot plugin that somebody on #code4lib had put together
18:11 slef              @roulette
18:11 munin             slef: *click*
18:12 brendan           slef stays safe again
18:12 brendan           @roulette
18:12 munin             *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
18:12 * munin           reloads and spins the chambers.
18:13 slef              brendan: remind me not to swap lucky charms with you.
18:20 jdavidb           @roulette
18:20 munin             jdavidb: *click*
18:23 cait              @roulette
18:23 munin             cait: *click*
18:23 * cait            surprised
18:48 jdavidb           @roulette
18:48 munin             jdavidb: *click*
18:48 * jdavidb         snaps his fingers.
18:48 cait              @roulette
18:48 munin             cait: *click*
18:49 magnus            @roulette
18:49 munin             *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
18:49 * munin           reloads and spins the chambers.
18:49 magnus            ouch
18:49 wizzyrea          nooo! not magnus!
18:49 wizzyrea          @roulette
18:49 munin             wizzyrea: *click*
18:49 cait              @roulette
18:49 munin             cait: *click*
18:49 * wizzyrea        high fives cait
18:49 magnus            gaaaaahhh...
18:49 cait              :)
18:54 cait              @games
18:54 jdavidb           @coin
18:54 munin             jdavidb: tails
18:55 jdavidb           hmpf.  Thought so.
18:55 slef              @roulette
18:55 munin             slef: *click*
18:56 slef              I think the "blank" comment is because munin would kick if it had ops
18:56 jdavidb           heh.  That'd be amusing.
18:56 owen              If munin had ops at least *someone* could update our topic.
18:57 slef              bots and ops is often risky
19:00 slef              30 minutes until ukgov leaders election debate
19:37 chris             morning
19:39 chris_n           hi chris
19:43 cait              morning chris
19:43 brendan           morning chris
19:44 brendan           @roulette
19:44 munin             brendan: *click*
19:44 cait              @roulette
19:44 munin             cait: *click*
19:44 collum            @roulette
19:44 munin             *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
19:44 * munin           reloads and spins the chambers.
19:48 cait              ok, time to stop playing and go to bed - good night all :)
19:48 * owen            find the situation not quite grim enough to play Russian roulette
20:33 richard           hi
20:50 sekjal            @whatis LDAP
20:50 munin             sekjal: "LDAP" could be a wicked pain to get working
20:56 chris             back
20:57 richard           hi chris and sekja
20:57 brendan           wb chris
20:57 richard           sekjal even :)
20:58 sekjal            :)
21:11 chris             hi jo
21:12 richard           very interesting article -  http://koha-community.org/hlt-koha-committee-report-on-discussions-with-ptfs/
21:13 chris             our waldo friend has chipped in with a comment already
21:20 jo                yes I saw that.
21:20 jo                I am amzed at the low level response
21:21 jo                don't believe thatthe community doesn't care ... so shocked I guess but good or bad ?
21:22 chris             not sure most people have seen it yet
21:22 wizzyrea          oh we care
21:22 jo                esp in USA
21:22 reed              you cover things pretty nicely in the posting too - so less to clarify by comments
21:22 wizzyrea          ^^ what he said
21:22 jo                yeah I forgot that time difference
21:22 jo                thanks Reed
21:23 jo                we went for comprehensive and complete rather than short and sweet
21:23 reed              it's an important document
21:23 jo                Hi Liz
21:24 wizzyrea          hello jo :)
21:24 jo                Lordy I am so tired my eyeballs feel like sandpaper
21:24 chris             ditto
21:24 jo                you have to be gentle with me today Chris :)
21:25 jo                and ditto
21:30 wizzyrea          thoughts on this? http://koha-community.org/get-involved/for-developers/
21:30 gmcharlt          wizzyrea: the searchbox you put in isn't a search of the repos' contents, but of the repos names
21:30 wizzyrea          ah okies ty wil fix
21:31 wizzyrea          will even
21:31 gmcharlt          i.e., I suggest  getting rid of it
21:31 wizzyrea          done
21:31 gmcharlt          and a direct link to http://git.koha-community.org/ somewhere there would be nice
21:31 wizzyrea          yep, wil ldo that too
21:44 Nate              gnight #koha!
22:14 chris             http://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2010-April/023637.html
22:15 chris             so the choice is clear
22:15 chris             join the ptfs fork
22:15 chris             s/fork/split
22:15 chris             fork implies open source
22:15 chris             or stay with koha
22:15 chris             i hope libraries chose wisely
22:16 chilts            wizzyrea: I just looked at that page, there's a slight link fix to be made : the 'kohadocs.git' link underneat 'Project' in the table needs a 'git.' at the start
22:16 chilts            otherwise, looks awesome :)
22:19 larsw             I've been working on my Debian package for Koha mostly alone, sometimes talking things with chris; would it be welcome if I explain my plans and goals on koha-devel so others could suggest things?
22:20 chris             i wonder if someone should say, the bullying attitude as invinced in this email is a major reason the conference call was declined
22:20 reed              oh, wow, so it's official then - ptfs is stepping away
22:20 chris             yep
22:20 reed              makes the path forward simple enough
22:24 gmcharlt          larsw: go for it
22:25 gmcharlt          in particular, I imagine that there will need to be a debate on the best way to slice and dice the packages to help those who run Koha on split-server configurations
22:26 jo                and the fork is official
22:29 jo                I'm relieved to be honest.
22:29 jo                clear choices to be made
22:29 jo                open source or not
22:30 jo                WE just keep doing what we are doing.
22:30 chris_n           jo++ # and more so
22:32 reed              (little gang of us here at cat. chatting it up agreeingly)
22:44 jo                hi Nicole
22:48 nengard           hi jo
22:48 nengard           just came on to see if anyone else was talking about the real nature of open source
22:52 chris             im too stupid apparently
22:52 chris             right going to see a demo at larsw desk
22:52 chris             bbiab
22:53 nengard           LOL - no one thinks that - no one who knows a thing about Koha, you, and open source that is
22:53 gmcharlt          chris: please thank larsw for demoing open source for you ;)
23:02 Joann             hi nicole - sorry having trouble with my PC - i keep locking up
23:04 nengard           no prob at all
23:04 nengard           am trying to write 2 presentations for tomorrow
23:04 nengard           i thought i had the day off!!! -- and by off I mean time to work on my real job
23:07 Joann             hehe
23:07 chris             nice reply from lori
23:08 Joann             the LL - PTFS experience reveals a lot about the true source of open source -
23:08 Joann             and what the community is prepared to defend in ternms of core values and principles
23:09 nengard           I'm editing my book on open source for libraries and it's shocking how many times I say the word 'community'
23:09 nengard           hopefully people learn from what i wrote
23:09 chris             its a good book
23:09 nengard           and it gets drilled into their heads what it's all about
23:10 chris             every library should buy 2 copies
23:10 chris             :)
23:10 nengard           Thanks chris!!!
23:10 nengard           it has a pretty good foreword if i do say so myself
23:11 chris             hehe
23:11 larsw             free and open source software is all about people. people form communities spontaneously. it's not surprising it's a common word in these contexts. (but I really hate it when someone say "I am going to create a community. I just registered a domain name...")
23:11 * mason           waves from kapiti....
23:11 chris             hi mason
23:12 moodaepo          nengard++
23:12 moodaepo          PTFS--
23:15 chilts            nengard++ your book looks great :)
23:15 nengard           thanks chilts
23:15 nengard           july 2010 is right around the corner :) that's when it comes out
23:16 Joann             how come they've seen the book?
23:16 chilts            I haven't seen it, just a webpage :)
23:16 Joann             I still havn't manged to buy a copy of the first one yet ..
23:24 nengard           Joann - http://opensource.web2learning.net has info on it - that's what they saw - well not chris - he saw the book cause he wrote the foreword so he has to read the book :)
23:25 nengard           one presentation done -- one to go :)
23:25 chilts            yeah, that's what I saw :)
23:25 chilts            good luck nengard
23:25 nengard           thanks
23:29 russ              Joann: i was away yesterday, got your email and Chris and I are sorting a commitment today
23:30 chris             yep
23:34 Joann             that would be great if you can. its coz its public money and auditors get worried about potential liability etc
23:35 chris             yep
23:36 Joann             you are amazing Nicole... I don't know how you manage to fit so much into your life
23:37 Joann             chris: thanks
23:37 nengard           Joann - me either :)
23:38 nengard           but as you all saw - when I crash - I really really crash
23:38 nengard           or as you all read/heard :)