Time Nick Message 01:17 * chris_n looks in 01:19 chris sup chris_n 01:20 chris_n just wandered by the computer and noticed how slow it was in here :) 01:20 chris yeah, tis pretty quiet today 01:20 chris_n hows the conversion going? 01:21 chris we are in the final testing phase 01:21 chris leading up to the go live, so getting there 01:21 chris_n cool 01:21 chris most of the work has been moving from the frbr like structure, to the 2 tier marc one 01:21 chris without bustinating everything 01:22 chris man, savitra is really really helpful on the mailing lists 01:22 chris savitra++ 01:42 chris_n g'night #koha 01:43 chris night chris_n 03:52 Amit_G heya brendan, chris 03:53 brendan hi Amit_G good morning to you 03:53 Amit_G brendan: have u try OAI? 03:53 brendan nope 04:40 brendan @quote random 04:40 munin brendan: Quote #70: "<wizzyrea> owen: I have a jquery... um... query for you" (added by jdavidb at 10:30 AM, April 01, 2010) 04:42 wizzyrea_laptop oh that's a good one 04:42 wizzyrea_laptop @quote random 04:42 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Quote #19: "<chris> i just want to yell things like don't kick the ball, pass it and Feed the backs" (added by jdavidb at 08:11 AM, July 27, 2009) 04:42 wizzyrea_laptop lol 04:42 wizzyrea_laptop this is fun. 04:42 wizzyrea_laptop @quote random 04:42 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Quote #28: "<owen> I'm glad munin doesn't follow me around all day remembering *everything* I say." (added by jdavidb at 09:14 AM, September 01, 2009) 04:42 chris ahh scrum methodology 04:42 chris how i loathe thee 04:42 wizzyrea_laptop @quote random 04:42 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Quote #68: "gmcharlt: which probably means that library schools ought to rename Cataloging 101 to Identification and Avoidance of Rabbit Holes 101" (added by wizzyrea_laptop at 03:17 PM, March 10, 2010) 04:43 wizzyrea_laptop I am SO excited about the debian package 04:43 wizzyrea_laptop so. So. SO excited. 04:43 wizzyrea_laptop like, squeeing excited. 04:43 wizzyrea_laptop @quote random 04:43 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Quote #5: "<jwagner> Why is it every Koha rock I turn over produces a zillion (metaphorical) ants, each with a new question????" (added by kf at 09:13 AM, June 12, 2009) 04:43 wizzyrea_laptop @quote random 04:43 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Quote #64: "<jwagner> Depends on whether you're trying to get intelligent participation, or just saying we're going to do it MY way" (added by brendan at 10:58 AM, March 01, 2010) 04:43 wizzyrea_laptop oh snap 04:44 chris lol 04:44 chris zing! 04:44 wizzyrea_laptop @quote random 04:44 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Quote #70: "<wizzyrea> owen: I have a jquery... um... query for you" (added by jdavidb at 10:30 AM, April 01, 2010) 04:44 wizzyrea_laptop munin likes that one 04:44 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "likes" is not a valid command. 04:44 chris @love 04:44 munin chris: Error: "love" is not a valid command. 04:44 chris @hate 04:44 munin chris: Error: "hate" is not a valid command. 04:44 chris @feel_mostly_ambivalent_about 04:44 munin chris: Error: "feel_mostly_ambivalent_about" is not a valid command. 04:44 brendan @distance love hate 04:44 munin brendan: Error: "distance" is not a valid command. 04:48 chris @love fine_line hate 04:48 munin chris: Error: "love" is not a valid command. 04:49 wizzyrea_laptop @kneel 04:49 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "kneel" is not a valid command. 04:49 wizzyrea_laptop munin: why not? 04:49 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "why" is not a valid command. 04:49 chris @help 04:49 munin chris: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. 04:49 wizzyrea_laptop munin is 04:49 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "is" is not a valid command. 04:49 chris @plugins 04:49 munin chris: Error: "plugins" is not a valid command. 04:49 chris i wonder how you get a list 04:50 wizzyrea_laptop @list plugins 04:50 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Error: 'plugins' is not a valid plugin. 04:50 wizzyrea_laptop @list 04:50 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Admin, Alias, Bugzilla, Channel, Config, Dict, Factoids, Filter, Games, Google, Herald, Internet, Karma, Lart, Later, MARC, Math, Misc, News, Note, Owner, Plugin, Quote, Seen, Todo, URL, Unix, User, Utilities, and Weather 04:50 chris ahh there you go 04:50 wizzyrea_laptop just like that 04:50 wizzyrea_laptop apparently 04:50 chris @help factoids 04:50 munin chris: Error: There is no command "factoids". 04:50 brendan nice find 04:50 chris @help Factoids 04:50 munin chris: Error: There is no command "factoids". 04:51 eythian @list factoids 04:51 munin eythian: change, forget, info, learn, lock, random, search, unlock, and whatis 04:51 brendan @games 04:51 munin brendan: Error: "games" is not a valid command. 04:51 chris ahh ta eythian 04:51 wizzyrea_laptop @factoid 04:51 brendan @Games 04:51 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "factoid" is not a valid command. 04:51 munin brendan: Error: "Games" is not a valid command. 04:51 * wizzyrea_laptop bonks munin on the head 04:51 chris @whatis koha 04:51 munin chris: "koha" could be http://www.koha.org/ 04:51 brendan @Games help 04:51 munin brendan: Error: The "Games" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "help" in it. Try "list Games" to see the commands in the "Games" plugin. 04:51 wizzyrea_laptop fumble! 04:51 chris @learn koha is koha-community.org 04:51 munin chris: Invalid arguments for learn. 04:51 brendan @listGames 04:51 munin brendan: Error: "listGames" is not a valid command. 04:51 chris @help learn 04:51 munin chris: (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value. 04:51 wizzyrea_laptop munin is a supybot 04:51 brendan @list Games 04:51 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "is" is not a valid command. 04:51 chris @learn koha as koha-community.org 04:51 munin brendan: coin, dice, eightball, monologue, and roulette 04:51 munin chris: The operation succeeded. 04:52 Amit_G @wunder Dehradun 04:52 munin Amit_G: The current temperature in Dehradun, India is 23.0�C (8:30 AM IST on April 29, 2010). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 53%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 29.78 in 1008 hPa. 04:52 chris @whatis koha 04:52 munin chris: "koha" could be (#1) http://www.koha.org/, or (#2) koha-community.org 04:52 Amit_G @wunder New Delhi 04:52 munin Amit_G: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 34.0�C (10:00 AM IST on April 29, 2010). Conditions: Unknown. Humidity: 28%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009 hPa (Steady). 04:52 chris @forget koha 04:52 wizzyrea_laptop @unlearn koha as http://www.koha.org 04:52 munin chris: Error: 2 factoids have that key. Please specify which one to remove, or use * to designate all of them. 04:52 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "unlearn" is not a valid command. 04:52 Amit_G @whatis linux 04:52 munin Amit_G: Error: No factoid matches that key. 04:52 brendan @Games roulette 04:52 munin brendan: *click* 04:52 wizzyrea_laptop AHA 04:52 chris @forget koha 1 04:52 munin chris: The operation succeeded. 04:52 Amit_G @whatis perl 04:52 munin Amit_G: Error: No factoid matches that key. 04:52 chris @whatis koha 04:52 munin chris: "koha" could be koha-community.org 04:52 brendan @learn unlearn 04:52 munin brendan: Invalid arguments for learn. 04:52 chris success!!! 04:53 * chris takes the small wins 04:53 * wizzyrea_laptop highfives chris 04:53 brendan small_wins++ 04:53 Amit_G @whatis koha 04:53 munin Amit_G: "koha" could be koha-community.org 04:53 * brendan throws a highfive too 04:53 Amit_G @wunder Bangalore 04:53 munin Amit_G: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 25.0�C (8:30 AM IST on April 29, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 19.0�C. 04:54 brendan @Games eightball 04:54 munin brendan: It is possible. 04:54 brendan @Games coin 04:54 munin brendan: heads 04:54 wizzyrea_laptop @Games coin 04:54 munin wizzyrea_laptop: heads 04:54 wizzyrea_laptop @list 04:54 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Admin, Alias, Bugzilla, Channel, Config, Dict, Factoids, Filter, Games, Google, Herald, Internet, Karma, Lart, Later, MARC, Math, Misc, News, Note, Owner, Plugin, Quote, Seen, Todo, URL, Unix, User, Utilities, and Weather 04:54 chris @games monologue 04:54 munin chris: Your current monologue is at least 1 line long. 04:54 chris ohh 04:54 chris @monologue 04:54 munin chris: Your current monologue is at least 3 lines long. 04:54 chris @coin 04:54 munin chris: tails 04:54 chris there we go 04:55 wizzyrea_laptop @monologue 04:55 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Your current monologue is at least 1 line long. 04:55 chris @eightball should i go home now? 04:55 munin chris: It is possible. 04:55 eythian @list dict 04:55 munin eythian: dict, dictionaries, and random 04:55 chris alright! 04:55 eythian @random 04:55 munin eythian: Error: The command "random" is available in the Dict, Factoids, and Quote plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "random". 04:55 eythian @dict random 04:55 munin eythian: dan-eng 04:55 eythian @dict random 04:55 munin eythian: world95 04:55 wizzyrea_laptop @factoids random 04:55 munin wizzyrea_laptop: "koha": koha-community.org; "light-speed": 1.8026175 * 10^(12) furlongs per fortnight; "slef": MJ Ray, webmaster-developer for TTLLP software.coop 04:55 wizzyrea_laptop @factoid learn wizzyrea as Liz Rea, NEKLS 04:56 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "factoid" is not a valid command. 04:56 wizzyrea_laptop aw 04:56 wizzyrea_laptop @learn wizzyrea as Liz Rea, NEKLS 04:56 munin wizzyrea_laptop: The operation succeeded. 04:56 wizzyrea_laptop @factoid wizzyrea 04:56 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "factoid" is not a valid command. 04:56 chris @whatis wizzyrea 04:56 munin chris: "wizzyrea" could be Liz Rea, NEKLS 04:56 wizzyrea_laptop @factoid random 04:56 munin wizzyrea_laptop: Error: "factoid" is not a valid command. 04:56 wizzyrea_laptop oh there you go 04:56 * chris hands wizzyrea_laptop an s 04:56 chris @factoids random 04:56 wizzyrea_laptop OH 04:56 munin chris: "open-source": open-source; "wizzyrea": Liz Rea, NEKLS; "slef": MJ Ray, webmaster-developer for TTLLP software.coop 04:56 wizzyrea_laptop der 04:57 chris ok hometime 04:57 wizzyrea_laptop later :) 04:58 wizzyrea_laptop @learn zebra as the bane of our existence 04:58 munin wizzyrea_laptop: The operation succeeded. 04:58 wizzyrea_laptop rofl 05:09 brendan @Games eightball make a drink? 05:09 munin brendan: NO! 05:09 brendan @Games eightball have a drink? 05:09 munin brendan: The answer is a resounding no. 05:10 brendan wow ok thanks munes 05:11 wizzyrea_laptop @Games eightball Not even Pina Coladas? 05:11 munin wizzyrea_laptop: The answer is a resounding no. 05:12 wizzyrea_laptop Oh come on you crazy teetotaler 05:12 wizzyrea_laptop @Games eightball Beer? 05:12 munin wizzyrea_laptop: What are you asking me for? 05:12 wizzyrea_laptop oh now i've just made you angry. 05:13 wizzyrea_laptop anyway, good night humans and bots. ttyl. (lol) 06:33 chris back 06:34 chris hows the netherlands treatng you paul_p ? 06:34 paul_p hi chris. 06:34 paul_p fine, thanks. weather very nice, people very nice. 06:35 chris excellent, good to hear 06:35 chris i enjoyed myself when i was there in 1998 too 06:39 chris good ice cream i remember too 07:24 kf good morning 07:25 chris hi kf 07:25 kf hi chris 07:58 Amit_G heya kf 07:59 kf hi Amit_G 09:29 greenmang0 @wunder mumbai 09:29 munin greenmang0: The current temperature in Mumbai, India is 33.0�C (2:40 PM IST on April 29, 2010). Conditions: Unknown. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: 25.0�C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady). 09:38 magnus @wunder bodo, norway 09:38 munin magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 2.0�C (11:20 AM CEST on April 29, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: -3.0�C. Windchill: -3.0�C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady). 09:38 magnus ...and there is 1 cm of fresh snow... 10:01 kf today is the "day of import problems" *sigh* 10:11 magnus kf: ouch? 10:13 kf magnus: ouch 10:24 chris import problems are never fun 10:25 hdl_laptop hi all 10:26 chris hiya hdl_laptop 10:30 chris have you heard from nahuel? 11:01 BobB Hi all 11:32 kf we have to delete a lot of records, will it work to delete entries in biblioi and biblioitems (those records have no items) and reindex? 11:39 chris yes 11:39 chris make sure you do a reset tho 11:40 chris http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/searching/#5 11:44 kf chris: thx! 11:46 kf chris++ 11:46 kf @karma chris 11:46 munin kf: Karma for "chris" has been increased 126 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 125. 11:53 jdavidb g'mornin, #koha! :) 11:58 chris hi jdavidb 11:59 chris_n morning 12:01 chris hi chris_n 12:16 kf morning jdavidb :) 12:16 nengard morning all 12:16 nengard i'm actually home for a few days before the next trip!!! :) 12:17 nengard time to do some patching :) 12:18 owen Hi everyone 12:25 owen nengard: Re: Bug 4407 12:25 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4407 normal, P5, ---, oleonard@myacpl.org, NEW, view in opac link missing in staff client 12:26 owen That works for me. Can you double-check? 12:26 nengard I found the problem - I thought I updated - I'll update now - it's evil xslt in the staff client- 12:27 nengard Found the problem if you turn off XSLTDetailsDisplay in the staff client then 12:27 nengard the link is there. This is a bigger problem than this - basically the XSLT 12:27 nengard template for the staff client is just a copy of the one for the OPAC and need 12:27 nengard to be re-written. Will open a new bug for that if there isn't one already. 12:27 nengard that's what i added to the bug report 12:28 chris_n @quote add <nengard> it's evil xslt in the staff client 12:28 munin chris_n: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command). 12:28 * chris_n harrumphs at munin 12:29 jdavidb @quote add <nengard> it's evil xslt in the staff client 12:29 munin jdavidb: The operation succeeded. Quote #72 added. 12:29 chris_n for some reason munin seems to think someone else owns my nick 12:29 jdavidb @quote random 12:29 munin jdavidb: Quote #36: "<pianohacker> first, burn the perl book" (added by jdavidb at 03:12 PM, September 25, 2009) 12:29 chris_n hehe 12:30 jdavidb @quote random 12:30 munin jdavidb: Quote #25: "<wizzyrea> ha, in #koha we don't pick each other's brains... we git pull them." (added by gmcharlt at 03:40 PM, August 14, 2009) 12:31 chris merge --squash 12:31 chris_n lol 12:32 owen What's the command to identify yourself to munin? 12:32 chris @quote 9 12:32 munin chris: Error: The "Quote" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "9" in it. Try "list Quote" to see the commands in the "Quote" plugin. 12:32 chris @list quote 12:32 munin chris: add, change, get, random, remove, search, and stats 12:32 chris @quote get 9 12:32 munin chris: Quote #9: "pianohacker ponders drumstick->ear as a method of food acquisition...We haven't gone to this good mexican restaurant in a while..." (added by wizzyrea at 04:23 PM, June 19, 2009) 12:32 chris @quote get 6 12:32 munin chris: Quote #6: "gmcharlt: kf: hold requests are a plot to sell more aspirin ;)" (added by wizzyrea at 12:13 PM, June 16, 2009) 12:32 chris gah 12:33 chris there is some quote that has the command in it 12:33 owen Only wizzyrea remembers it 12:33 gmcharlt @quote search register 12:33 munin gmcharlt: 1 found: #23: "<gmcharlt> /msg munin register nick password" 12:33 chris that one 12:33 chris yeah 12:34 owen and what does it mean if munin says "That name is already assigned to someone." 12:34 owen Wrong password? 12:35 nengard reminder to all -- send me those newsletter article ideas!!! 12:36 chris_n owen: try /msg munin identify nick password 12:38 owen @quote add <chris_n> owen: try /msg munin identify nick password 12:38 munin owen: The operation succeeded. Quote #73 added. 12:39 chris_n g'morning jane 12:41 jwagner Morning (but not much good about it, grump) 12:44 * owen sends sympathy treats to jwagner 12:47 nengard wow: http://koha-community.org/hlt-koha-committee-report-on-discussions-with-ptfs/# 12:48 * jwagner thanks owen 12:54 owen What a great write-up. The community chose well when we entrusted the HLT Committee with this task 13:07 chris_n very nice writeup 13:08 chris_n very sad turn of events, however 13:08 magnus agreed, chris_n 13:11 sekjal @learn sekjal as Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions 13:11 munin sekjal: The operation succeeded. 13:11 nengard sekjal what does @ learn do? 13:12 sekjal @factiods random 13:12 munin sekjal: Error: "factiods" is not a valid command. 13:12 sekjal errr 13:12 sekjal @factoids random 13:12 munin sekjal: "open-source": open-source; "koha": koha-community.org; "zebra": the bane of our existence 13:12 sekjal learn adds to this list, apparently 13:13 sekjal thought I'd catch up on the last few hours of IRC chatter, and found the @ learn gem. also, apparently, munin has games 13:14 sekjal @factoids munin 13:14 munin sekjal: Error: The "Factoids" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "munin" in it. Try "list Factoids" to see the commands in the "Factoids" plugin. 13:16 owen @factoids sekjal 13:16 munin owen: Error: The "Factoids" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "sekjal" in it. Try "list Factoids" to see the commands in the "Factoids" plugin. 13:16 owen ? 13:16 sekjal I guess I'm not a command 13:16 gmcharlt @help factoids 13:16 munin gmcharlt: Error: There is no command "factoids". 13:16 gmcharlt @list Factoids 13:16 munin gmcharlt: change, forget, info, learn, lock, random, search, unlock, and whatis 13:16 owen How do you retrieve a factoid then? 13:16 gmcharlt @whatis sekjal 13:16 munin gmcharlt: "sekjal" could be Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions 13:17 sekjal there we go. neat 13:18 owen @learn cormorant as The common cormorant or shag Lays eggs inside a paper bag 13:18 munin owen: The operation succeeded. 13:18 owen @whatis cormorant 13:18 munin owen: "cormorant" could be The common cormorant or shag Lays eggs inside a paper bag 13:18 sekjal @whatis git 13:18 munin sekjal: Error: No factoid matches that key. 13:21 sekjal @whatis munin 13:21 munin sekjal: "munin" could be supybot http://supybot.sourceforge.net/docs/commands.html 13:22 gmcharlt @learn munin purveyor of all wisdom 13:22 munin gmcharlt: Invalid arguments for learn. 13:22 sekjal @learn munin as your chatbot play who's fun to be with 13:22 munin sekjal: The operation succeeded. 13:22 gmcharlt @help learn 13:22 munin gmcharlt: (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value. 13:22 gmcharlt ah 13:22 gmcharlt @learn munin as purveyor of all wisdom 13:22 munin gmcharlt: The operation succeeded. 13:22 sekjal @help forget 13:22 munin sekjal: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 13:22 gmcharlt @whatis munin 13:22 munin gmcharlt: "munin" could be (#1) supybot http://supybot.sourceforge.net/docs/commands.html, or (#2) your chatbot play who's fun to be with, or (#3) purveyor of all wisdom 13:23 gmcharlt @list Factoids 13:23 munin gmcharlt: change, forget, info, learn, lock, random, search, unlock, and whatis 13:23 sekjal I really need to drink more coffee before attempting to type 13:23 gmcharlt @Help forget 13:23 munin gmcharlt: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 13:23 gmcharlt @help forget 13:23 munin gmcharlt: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 13:23 gmcharlt @help info 13:23 munin gmcharlt: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 13:23 gmcharlt @help Factoids forget 13:23 munin gmcharlt: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 13:23 gmcharlt hmm 13:23 chris @forget munin 1 13:23 munin chris: The operation succeeded. 13:23 chris @whatis munin 13:23 munin chris: "munin" could be (#1) your chatbot play who's fun to be with, or (#2) purveyor of all wisdom 13:24 sekjal @forget munin 1 13:24 munin sekjal: The operation succeeded. 13:24 nengard @learn nengard as Nicole C. Engard, ByWater Solutions/Koha Doc Manager 13:24 munin nengard: The operation succeeded. 13:24 chris_n lol 13:24 sekjal @learn munin as your chatbot pal who's fun to be with 13:24 munin sekjal: The operation succeeded. 13:25 chris_n @factoid random 13:25 munin chris_n: Error: "factoid" is not a valid command. 13:25 chris_n @Factoid random 13:25 munin chris_n: Error: "Factoid" is not a valid command. 13:25 chris_n @Factoid 13:25 munin chris_n: Error: "Factoid" is not a valid command. 13:25 chris_n @Factoids 13:25 munin chris_n: Error: "Factoids" is not a valid command. 13:26 * chris_n gives up 13:26 sekjal @factoids 13:26 munin sekjal: Error: "factoids" is not a valid command. 13:26 sekjal @factoids random 13:26 munin sekjal: "cormorant": The common cormorant or shag Lays eggs inside a paper bag; "munin": purveyor of all wisdom; "nengard": Nicole C. Engard, ByWater Solutions/Koha Doc Manager 13:27 chris_n @whatis 13:27 munin chris_n: (whatis [<channel>] <key> [<number>]) -- Looks up the value of <key> in the factoid database. If given a number, will return only that exact factoid. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself. 13:27 chris_n @whatis fortnight 13:27 munin chris_n: Error: No factoid matches that key. 13:44 owen Is anyone familiar with a (fairly) recent change in Koha to allow renewals to be recorded with a branch code in the statistics table? 13:48 sekjal owen: not just yet, but I could get familiar 13:48 owen sekjal: At one time some renewals were recorded in the statistics table with no branch. I think it was renewals from the OPAC 13:48 owen My statistics aren't showing those branchless stats anymore, so I'm assuming it was fixed. 13:49 owen I'm just curious about what the fix did 13:50 brendan @Games eightball should I have breakfast yet? 13:50 munin brendan: NO. 13:50 owen @Games eightball Did I have breakfast yet? 13:50 munin owen: You're kidding, right? 13:51 owen What, do I have powdered sugar on my face or something? 13:52 owen @Games eightball Will my stats all add up this time? 13:52 munin owen: _I_ don't know. 13:52 gmcharlt @eightball will people play with munin all day today? 13:52 munin gmcharlt: Naturally. 13:52 brendan :) 13:53 * jwagner thinks there's too much fun going on. Back to work! 13:53 sekjal owen: not seeing anything in the code of opac-renew.pl about branchcode specifically 13:55 schuster jwagner cracking the whip feels sorry for jdavidb... but would love to see 3.2 in beta release! So I'm with her! 13:56 * jdavidb fears jwagner's whip. 13:56 * jwagner is not really that fearsome. Just grumpy today. 13:57 jwagner Actually, I could use some input on an idea I had if there are any XSLT experts around. We've talked about, and there is some provision for, having .css stylesheets live on a separate server & be called via syspref. 13:58 jwagner Would it be possible to put alternate copies of the XSLT stylesheets on a separate server & have them called via syspref the same way? 13:58 * owen boggles that his statistics actually added up this time! 13:58 jwagner That way, sites could customize what fields they want to display without mucking up their system with local code customizations. 13:58 owen jwagner: I don't know, but I like the idea! 13:59 sekjal jwagner: that'd be a good idea. Or allow folks to upload .css, .js and .xsl files to a local directory, then have dropdowns to select from those available 13:59 jwagner Probably 60% of the customization requests I get are "why can't I display _this_ field in my OPAC?" 14:00 jwagner I didn't know if there was anything funky about XSLT as opposed to .css files that would need it on the same server. 14:00 owen The other 40% is "Can you make the book covers dance to the 'Peanut Butter Jelly' song" 14:00 jwagner owen, haven't had that one yet (thank goodness) but have had some equally wierd ones.... 14:01 * chris_n thinks animated gifs 14:01 sekjal owen: looking at opac-renew.pl further, I'm seeing the call to AddRenewal is missing the $branch parameter 14:02 * owen should have checked when he was renewing books this morning 14:02 wizzyrea jwagner that's a great idea 14:02 wizzyrea afk one minute :P] 14:02 wizzyrea and good morning 14:03 jwagner Hmmmm. I might do some poking at the XSLT thing then, unless someone knows of a techie reason why it wouldn't work. 14:04 owen sekjal: Indeed, I just renewed an item from the OPAC and the line in statistics has a NULL branch. 14:05 jwagner The main concern I can think of is version updates to the main XSLT files wouldn't get reflected over. 14:05 owen I wonder if my check for NULL branch is not working as I thought it was 14:07 sekjal the line of code in opac-renewal.pl was added before the changes to the AddRenewal function in C4/Circulation that dealt with branch 14:07 * sekjal loves git-blame 14:08 * owen too except when it blames him 14:08 owen count of NULL branch renewals in 2009 stats: 0. Count in 2010 stats: 8113. 14:10 wizzyrea jwagner: that's the problem with any customizations like that I think 14:11 wizzyrea but easier to deal with than if they are THE templates you use 14:11 wizzyrea you can always fall back to the defaults if they are better than your custom changes 14:11 wizzyrea can someone point me to a *good* guide to how xslt ^*#@&(% works? 14:12 wizzyrea I've been looking off and on for two years and still haven't found one that resonates enough for me to understand 14:13 jwagner wizzyrea, I haven't either. We have someone in house who speaks it (not in the Koha group) and I've picked his brain a few times. Also have used http://www.w3schools.com/Xsl/default.asp 14:14 owen sekjal: Going through my old email, I see an email from Ryan Higgins that says there is a "statistics table fix script" which might include a routine to backfill empty branch in stats 14:14 wizzyrea jwagner: i will take a look at that, it looks familiar but I may have been seeking answers instead of learning the last time I looked at it. 14:15 jwagner Mostly I've learned by looking at how other sections work, then copying & trying to adapt. 14:15 wizzyrea I tried that, but failed (miserably) and then I gave up for a while. 14:15 wizzyrea (other things to do_) 14:16 jwagner Always. 14:17 collum Here's another. http://www.learn-xslt-tutorial.com/ 14:17 collum xslt just seems like too much code for the result. IMO. 14:17 schuster jwagner and nengard - I was looking at bug 4377 14:17 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4377 blocker, P5, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, cannot confirm hold due to missing letter 14:18 nengard yes? 14:18 schuster I see jwagner sent a patch but it wasn't "accepted yet"... 14:18 nengard k 14:19 schuster Just wondering if it looks like it would resolve the issue and we should remind gmcharlt it was there? 14:19 jwagner He knows it's there -- I asked him to check the structure when I sent it in. Probably hasn't had a chance to get to it yet. 14:19 nengard it was a pretty recent patch which is why it hasn't gone in there yet, but it will solve the problem - it will also solve the problem if you add an empty template yourself :) 14:19 nengard using the notices interface 14:20 nengard under tools 14:20 schuster Desperately trying to figure out a way to help move 3.2 along. 14:20 jwagner Yes, as long as it's named HOLD_PRINT 14:20 owen schuster: You could try dispatching someone to gmcharlt's office to apply shoulder and neck massages? 14:21 gmcharlt and combat other nuisacnes 14:21 jwagner Or send large quantities of liquor, chocolate, and gourmet cat food via fedex? 14:21 gmcharlt at any rate, expect good news by the time of the community meeting next wednesday 14:22 * owen needs to iron out some conflicts on a patch to send... 14:22 jwagner What is the time of that meeting? 14:22 * jwagner can loan owen an ironing board 14:22 * owen thinks I can haz topic plz? 14:24 jwagner I did look at http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:start but I don't see one for next week. 14:28 miguel hi all 14:29 schuster I saw on jransoms post - Committee would like to call a community handover meeting on 4 May 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0... but that is a community handover not a development meeting. 14:31 * owen wishes Google Calendar would interpret "19:00 UTC+0" for me 14:32 * jwagner can't remember -- are we on Eastern Standard or Eastern Daylight time now? 14:32 wizzyrea we are CDT 14:33 owen http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=4+May+2010+at+19%3A00+UTC%2B0 14:33 rhcl jwagner said: "Or send large quantities of liquor, chocolate, and gourmet cat food via fedex" 14:34 rhcl rhcl asks: "Does gourmet cat food taste good?" 14:34 * collum loves wolframalpha.com - http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=what+is+a+hospital 14:34 rhcl or maybe it does after large quantities of liquor and chocolate 14:34 schuster The last meeting run by gmcharlt minutes states - 19:00 UTC+0 on 5 May 14:35 schuster So we have 2 meetings possibly next week? 14:35 jwagner rhcl, one way to gmcharlt's heart is through his cats' stomachs :-) 14:35 gmcharlt schuster: yep, two meetings 14:36 chris_n lol collum :) 14:36 jwagner gmcharlt, which is when? 14:36 gmcharlt general on wednesday, community on teusday 14:36 gmcharlt both 19:00 UTC+0 14:39 wizzyrea what does this mean: xmlns:items="http://www.koha.org/items" 14:39 schuster ok to verify 2 pm central 3 pm Eastern - I've missed meetings because I can't convert time well! 14:39 wizzyrea xml namespace but I don't get it. Gah. I feel dumb. 14:40 owen schuster: Did that wolframalpha link work for you? That's what I always use 14:46 wizzyrea collum: I think I'm beginning to see why you say it's too much for the result. 14:46 schuster Yes I LOVE that link.. that's how I got to the 2 pm central! Thank you owen! That needs to be on each of the agenda pages! 14:46 wizzyrea it's a lot to wrap your mind around. 14:50 schuster wizzyrea - have you seen this on any of your reports? - bug 2281 14:50 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2281 critical, P3, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, ASSIGNED, holds queue report including unavailable items 14:50 owen Are there any contenders for alternatives to xslt? 14:51 wizzyrea I don't believe we've seen that, no 14:55 schuster wizzyrea - since I know you all use holds quite a bit could you check with a couple of your busy libraries? Then maybe we could close this bug? It is almost 2 years old... 14:55 wizzyrea I just asked sharon, we don't see this bug 14:56 * owen hasn't heard any reports of this 14:57 wizzyrea close it, we can reopen if needed 14:58 schuster gmcharlt - ok with me doing this? 14:58 gmcharlt schuster: yep 15:02 schuster done thanks - always freaks me out after you commit in bugszilla that it jumps to the next bug and I think I messed something up! 15:03 gmcharlt schuster: that's just how bugzilla hands out your next assignment :) 15:04 schuster Unfortunately I can't handle the assignments! Guess that's when you start looking for money to pay someone to fix it for you so you can close it and get some glory... 15:04 joetho @learn MUNIN: "Another busy day at the office!" 15:04 munin joetho: Invalid arguments for learn. 15:05 joetho @learn MUNIN: Another busy day at the office! 15:05 munin joetho: Invalid arguments for learn. 15:05 joetho @learn munin Another busy day at the office! 15:05 munin joetho: Invalid arguments for learn. 15:06 joetho well durn it 15:06 joetho oh I know ALL about making invalid arguments. Ask my daughters. 15:06 joetho sigh. back to work. 15:08 schuster bug requesting feedback - bug 3344 15:08 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3344 critical, P5, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, ASSIGNED, Hold priority list needs additional status for items assigned but not waiting 15:13 schuster nengard - bug 4320 looks to be included in bug 4151 can we close? 15:13 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4320 blocker, P5, ---, nengard@gmail.com, NEW, Module Text::CSV::Encoded not present in INSTALL instructions 15:13 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4151 blocker, P5, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, ASSIGNED, Document new perl modules for those upgrading 15:13 nengard will read and combine 15:14 nengard oh - this is assigned to me - i don't know about this - or how to do this - so yes closing 4151 15:14 nengard no 15:14 nengard closing 4320 15:16 schuster Thanks! that's 1 blocker down the tube and 1 critical! 15:17 wizzyrea re bug 3344, when last I looked at that, it was a very good improvement 15:17 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3344 critical, P5, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, ASSIGNED, Hold priority list needs additional status for items assigned but not waiting 15:17 wizzyrea dk if gmcharlt has done more on it or not 15:19 schuster Can someone with 3.2 alpha test this and comment? bug 4116 15:19 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4116 critical, P5, ---, henridamien@koha-fr.org, ASSIGNED, results from cataloging search is different from advanced search results 15:19 wizzyrea yep one mome nt 15:20 wizzyrea so this is opac vs. cataloging search, right? 15:20 wizzyrea just want to make sure i'm testing the right thing. 15:20 schuster Looks like Advanced search in cataloging from what I read. 15:20 owen standard staff client search vs. search from cataloging page I think 15:21 wizzyrea k 15:21 CGI558 greetings everyone 15:21 wizzyrea mine are the same 15:21 CGI558 i have a question about my marc framework 15:21 wizzyrea good morning 15:22 wizzyrea http://screencast.com/t/ODZjZmNjYjU cataloging search 15:22 wizzyrea http://screencast.com/t/OTgzMzk1NTA regular search 15:23 wizzyrea let me try one more place 15:23 schuster what did you search? 15:23 wizzyrea bear 15:23 CGI558 made the marc bibliografic framework test and i got these error: biblio y biblionumber The biblio.biblionumber and biblioitems.biblioitemnumber fields be mapped to a MARC subfield, 15:23 schuster Ah. 15:23 owen wizzyrea: that second link isn't the right thing 15:23 wizzyrea Search link above 15:23 wizzyrea http://screencast.com/t/NDY5NTZjM2Et 15:24 schuster what happens if you truncate the search do you get the same thing? 15:25 wizzyrea 1s lemme check 15:26 wizzyrea http://screencast.com/t/NzYwMzIx 15:27 wizzyrea http://screencast.com/t/ZmRlNGJkNj 15:27 owen nengard: did you ever file a bug for the frameworks deletion problem from the other day? 15:27 wizzyrea all of them look consistent to me 15:28 nengard owen - no because i haven't re-tested to see if i can make it happen again 15:28 nengard i've been out of town and now i'm just trying to catch up 15:28 owen nengard: I observe the same problem. I suspect thd is right about the cause 15:28 wizzyrea I think TD found an issue there, was in email 15:28 wizzyrea I've seen it too 15:29 wizzyrea but a while ago 15:29 nengard owen do you want to report it or should I? 15:29 wizzyrea it's really only something that comes up when you're first setting up a system 15:29 owen nengard: I'll do it since I'm looking at it atm 15:29 nengard thanks 15:31 sekjal @learn LDAP as a wicked pain to get working 15:31 munin sekjal: The operation succeeded. 15:32 slef yengh 15:32 wizzyrea hi slef 15:33 slef today not brill here - how about there? 15:33 gmcharlt sunny day in florida 15:35 slef @wunder Weston-super-Mare Somerset 15:35 munin slef: The current temperature in Weston-Super-Mare, United Kingdom is 12.9�C (4:30 PM BST on April 29, 2010). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 11.0�C. Pressure: 29.73 in 1006.7 hPa (Steady). 15:36 slef that sums it up here 15:36 slef even if munin miscapitalises the placename 15:38 owen Bug 4424 15:38 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4424 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, MARC Framework deletion incorrectly reports usage count 15:38 wizzyrea @factoids zebra 15:38 munin wizzyrea: Error: The "Factoids" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "zebra" in it. Try "list Factoids" to see the commands in the "Factoids" plugin. 15:38 wizzyrea @list Factoids 15:38 munin wizzyrea: change, forget, info, learn, lock, random, search, unlock, and whatis 15:39 wizzyrea @Factoids random 15:39 munin wizzyrea: "munin": purveyor of all wisdom; "cormorant": The common cormorant or shag Lays eggs inside a paper bag; "light-speed": 1.8026175 * 10^(12) furlongs per fortnight 15:39 owen @whatis zebra 15:39 munin owen: "zebra" could be the bane of our existence 15:39 slef furlongs per fortnight? 15:39 kf I hope not 15:41 schuster Since we are on a roll - wizzyrea can you check this one bug 4201 15:41 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4201 blocker, P5, ---, ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com, ASSIGNED, Holds priority listings assigning large numbers 15:41 wizzyrea no, this isn't fixed 15:41 schuster drat... 15:41 wizzyrea sekjal wrote a script to correct the problem 15:41 wizzyrea but the root is still there 15:41 wizzyrea whatever it is. 15:42 * wizzyrea suspects simultaneous processing of holds 15:42 wizzyrea as the root cause of that 15:42 sekjal bug 4201 and what you're experiencing, wizzyrea, are a little different, I think 15:42 wizzyrea I'm not really convinced that they aren't caused by the same thing though. 15:42 schuster ah I remember an IRC discussion one day about this with you and Sharon doing simultaneous holds 15:43 kf import problems solved in first library, tidy up second tomorrow *tired* 15:43 kf bye #koha 15:43 wizzyrea it's different behavior, that's true 15:43 sekjal well, my patch to bug 4201 solves part of it 15:43 sekjal doesn't address simulatenous holds, though 15:43 wizzyrea that's the corrective script, right? 15:43 * wizzyrea goes to read, haven't looked lately 15:44 sekjal I've published both a patch to the bug, and a cleanup script 15:44 wizzyrea oh I missed the patch, sorry 15:44 wizzyrea so sorry 15:44 sekjal wizzyrea: no worries :) 15:44 sekjal I still want to figure out how to handle simulatenous holds 15:45 wizzyrea yea, that's a huge deal in a 31, soon to be 33 library shared collection consortium 15:45 wizzyrea they all process holds at the same time, every day 15:46 schuster So do we need to create another bug for that? - simultaneous holds? 15:47 sekjal schuster: in my opinion, yes. 15:47 sekjal the huge holds priority numbers has been solved by fixing some bad SQL 15:48 sekjal or, at least that's what I've seen 15:49 wizzyrea that's done schuster 15:49 wizzyrea bug 4373 15:49 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4373 major, P2, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, Placing and Processing Items Simultaneously causes multiple issues 15:49 schuster Ah ok - haven't gone through the "major" ones yet! 15:50 wizzyrea I"m not sure that this one shouldn't be more critical, but I think it will take more time than we have for 3.2 15:50 wizzyrea plus $$ 15:50 schuster so 4201 could be closed - sekjal and wizzyrea? 15:50 wizzyrea I defer to sekjal 15:50 owen wizzyrea if you're not careful I'm going to assign Bug 2780 to you :P 15:50 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2780 minor, P3, ---, oleonard@myacpl.org, REOPENED, capitalizing strings 15:51 * wizzyrea sobs 15:51 sekjal I believe that my patch and cleanup script solve bug 4201, but having more folks test that to confirm would probably be a good idea 15:51 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4201 blocker, P5, ---, ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com, ASSIGNED, Holds priority listings assigning large numbers 15:52 jdavidb Don't be mean to wizzyrea, owen! 15:53 * owen couldn't possibly, not while #koha has her back 15:53 wizzyrea aw 15:54 schuster If I only understood what that bug is talking about HA HA HA.... 15:55 wizzyrea sekjal: it's looking good from here 15:56 wizzyrea though look at this: 15:57 wizzyrea http://screencast.com/t/NjZiYTFmZG 15:59 sekjal do you know what the priority number is for that last patron? I mean, as it reads in the database? 15:59 wizzyrea lemme look 15:59 schuster it's that custom code nekls has... ;) 15:59 wizzyrea no, darlings, this is latest 3.2 head ;) 16:00 schuster oh sorry... I'm done for today so will go sit in the corner and read a book... :0 16:00 owen That's what us librarians do all day long anyway isn't it schuster? 16:02 wizzyrea sekjal: priority 15 on a bib with 7 holds 16:02 sekjal ewww, that's bad 16:03 sekjal that sounds like bug 4201 16:03 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4201 blocker, P5, ---, ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com, ASSIGNED, Holds priority listings assigning large numbers 16:03 wizzyrea BUT. you might take a look near the code that has to do with the pick up branch 16:04 wizzyrea when the pickup branch is different from the patron's home, it seems to do this 16:04 wizzyrea the other thing 16:04 sekjal hmmm... 16:04 wizzyrea is we were placing holds fast/furious at the same time on this bib 16:05 wizzyrea 6 and this one might have been placed at nearly the same time 16:05 wizzyrea but I do know that frances has a different pick up branch than the branch I was placing the hold at 16:05 wizzyrea so I favor that theory 16:06 wizzyrea (the pickup branch mucks it up theory) 16:06 schuster speaking of holds when wizzyrea has a minute would you look at but 2655 and indicate if it is resolved? 16:07 owen Bug 2655 has not been resolved to my knowledge 16:07 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2655 blocker, P2, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, Items waiting on the hold shelf display as "Available" in OPAC 16:08 wizzyrea not sure, is this what you're talking about? http://screencast.com/t/NjZiYTFmZG 16:08 wizzyrea er 16:08 wizzyrea http://screencast.com/t/NjJkN2YzMT 16:08 wizzyrea 2nd, sorry 16:09 wizzyrea I forget to wait until it says "ok, done, paste it fool" 16:09 schuster phewy... have you noticed I'm using different words each time I hit a roadblock? 16:11 wizzyrea if that's what you're talking about then it looks like it's right to me? 16:11 wizzyrea http://screencast.com/t/NjJkN2YzMT 16:13 schuster Yep wizzyrea - not fixed. 16:13 schuster No it says AVAILABLE still on the item list. 16:13 chris_n patches flow like water today :) 16:16 owen What can we do? schuster is cracking the whip! 16:18 brendan would be nice to have bugs.koha-communtity.org kicking 16:21 nengard got a question -- does anyone know what libraries are using RFID & Koha - wizzyrea was it your libraries? I know there are some out there - I just can't think of the names 16:21 jwagner I believe one of ours is -- Middletown Township Public Library. Not sure of specifics. 16:21 schuster I know South Central is going to when they go live. 16:23 nengard thanks guys 16:23 schuster my work here is now done for today... I hope it spurred some development... I have a few things I'm working on but they will probably be 3.4... 16:23 schuster I just know there are a lot of things hinging on 3.2 right now. 16:27 chris_n schuster++ #for stirring up patches :) 16:32 slef nengard: I know some of ours are. 16:32 slef nengard: most open is CAMLIS who ran the open day. 16:33 slef nengard: 3M-compatible self-issue machine still causes us problems. 16:33 nengard thanks slef 16:42 wizzyrea yep, basehor is using 3m RFID 16:58 wizzyrea jwagner thanks for the xslt tip... It's kind of, sort of, maybe sinking in a little. 17:04 jwagner wizzyrea, then you're doing better than I am :-) 17:04 wizzyrea heh 17:05 brendan is Kyle Hall's patch, Fines System Updates - Code Cleanup & Additional Features slated to make into 3.2 ? 17:07 gmcharlt no, that's rather a bit extensive for 3.2, plus there's a counterpatch for partial payments floating out there as well 17:07 brendan thanks - do you know who sent the counter patch ? 17:08 gmcharlt Colin, IIRC 17:09 brendan thanks will look 17:10 jwagner FYI, Colin's partial payment is our Bug 3498 17:10 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3498 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, kohaprogrammers@ptfs.com, NEW, Allow partial fine payments 17:23 brendan @Games eightball will partial payments make it into 3.2? 17:23 munin brendan: Obviously. 17:23 brendan there you go gmcharlt 17:23 brendan patch away according to munin 17:23 gmcharlt @eightball will munin be the 3.6 release manager? 17:23 munin gmcharlt: The answer is def-- oooh! shiny thing! 17:23 gmcharlt just as well 17:24 brendan munin for president! 17:24 munin brendan: Error: "for" is not a valid command. 17:26 brendan @Games eightball does munin have a clue? 17:26 munin brendan: The answer is def-- oooh! shiny thing! 17:32 DRUlm What is happening in Koha world? 17:32 jwagner So now we know how to distract munin -- just wave shiny things around :-) 17:35 slef DRUlm: http://koha-community.org/hlt-koha-committee-report-on-discussions-with-ptfs/ 17:35 DRUlm Oh yeah, just read it. I think. 17:39 DRUlm Yes, I did read that. 17:40 DRUlm I think there could be some positive moves happening, on both sides. 17:40 DRUlm It looks like it is all a matter of how it will happen. 17:40 DRUlm If not, everyone may start jumping over to Evergreen ;) 17:40 DRUlm This is how open source works. Too much infighting and everyone just goes to the competitor. 17:41 DRUlm Probably in the interest of both parties to come together. But the future will show the evidence of what will happen - could go either way. 17:41 nengard I don't see it as fighting 17:41 DRUlm Good! 17:42 nengard I see it as the community governing itself 17:42 nengard the community was around before us support companies and communities are the pillar of open source 17:42 DRUlm Great, then everyone will be free to be you and me 17:43 DRUlm Be nice to see the code come together, and likely would be good for both parties - I mean, who wants to invest resources to support 2 code bases? 17:44 slef No-one. LL pretty much forced us to and we're still recovering. 17:45 cait hi koha 17:45 slef hi cait 17:45 DRUlm Historically, that is costly, and if the branch is not *really* open source, then why not just run something proprietary since there are many choices. If I am not able to change the code anyway, I would just go with a proprietary and get all the bells and whistles - whoever has the most. But the open source advantage is total *local* flexibility, but if it isn't really *open* then I would go with a proprietary. 17:46 slef Now that's just confusing. What do you mean by "really open"? 17:46 DRUlm Many feel the same way. 17:47 gmcharlt DRUlm: that's assumes that that only advance of open source software is the flexibility - but there are plenty of cases where F/OSS software is better than its proprietary equivalents in terms of its external functionality, and vice versa 17:48 slef Ours has always been open (FOSS) to our clients, but maintaining a clean-for-publication branch lagged and still isn't complete. We'll probably just junk part of it eventually. 17:49 * chris_n wonders who the antecedent to 'many' is? 17:49 DRUlm cmgharlt: I am not assuming that, I am playing the devils advocate. 17:50 DRUlm I am in agreement w/ you. 17:52 gmcharlt DRUlm: yep, I was addressing the statement 17:55 DRUlm Cool. Good things may happen. 17:55 DRUlm See ya 17:57 * chris_n wonders what that was all about 17:58 brendan @Games coin 17:58 munin brendan: heads 17:59 chris_n @Games coin 17:59 munin chris_n: tails 18:00 gmcharlt boring game, try this: 18:00 gmcharlt @marc 505 18:00 munin gmcharlt: The titles of separate works or parts of an item or the table of contents. The field may also contain statements of responsibility and volume numbers or other sequential designations. (Repeatable) [a,g,r,t,u,6,8] 18:00 gmcharlt ;) 18:00 slef gmcharlt: big red error on http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/reports.cgi 18:01 jwagner gmcharlt, and MARC _isn't_ boring??? 18:01 * collum is curious as to what other Games there are. 18:01 brendan @marc 691 18:01 munin brendan: unknown tag 691 18:01 jdavidb @marc 785 18:01 munin jdavidb: Information concerning the immediate successor to the target item (chronological relationship). When a note is generated from this field, the introductory phrase may be generated based on the value in the second indicator position for display. (Repeatable) [b,c,d,g,h,i,k,m,n,o,r,s,t,u,w,x,y,z,6,7,8] 18:01 gmcharlt @list Games 18:01 munin gmcharlt: coin, dice, eightball, monologue, and roulette 18:01 slef @marc 952 18:01 munin slef: unknown tag 952 18:01 slef someone teach munin Koha ;-) 18:01 jwagner @monologue 18:01 munin jwagner: Your current monologue is at least 1 line long. 18:01 slef @marc 785$c 18:01 munin slef: unknown tag 785$c 18:01 gmcharlt @marc 785 c 18:01 munin gmcharlt: Qualifying information 18:02 jdavidb @Games roulette 18:02 munin jdavidb: *click* 18:02 slef @roulette 18:02 munin slef: *click* 18:02 * jdavidb raises an eyebrow 18:02 slef jdavidb: never plaid russian roulette? 18:02 jdavidb oh! Russian roulette. 18:02 * collum is waiting for a loud boom 18:02 slef played even 18:02 slef collum: your turn 18:02 collum @Games roulette 18:02 munin collum: *click* 18:03 gmcharlt slef: guess the relevant graphics libs weren't reinstalled when the LL-hosted things were moved a week or so ago 18:03 * jdavidb has a list of people to suggest handing the pistol to... 18:03 chris_n hehe 18:03 slef jdavidb: if it goes bang on the first PTFSer, can we blame karma? 18:04 jdavidb @karma PTFS 18:04 munin jdavidb: Karma for "PTFS" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1. 18:04 slef PTFS-- 18:04 slef let's correct that 18:04 * jdavidb , being non-autonomous, remains mute. 18:04 slef jdavidb: looks like your turn... 18:05 brendan @Games roulette 18:05 munin *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?! 18:05 * munin reloads and spins the chambers. 18:05 brendan ouch 18:05 slef I think non-autonomous workers should be illegal, but I'm just an aging leftie. 18:05 nengard okay - did I read the backlog right? munin knows marc?? 18:05 * jwagner thought there was a gentleperson's agreement about not attacking us personally? 18:05 slef jwagner: munin is not a person. 18:06 chris_n PTFS++ # for at least having the wisdom to hire jdavidb && jwagner 18:06 jdavidb kinda-sorta, nengard. It doesn't seem to know it very well. 18:06 nengard that's kind of cool 18:06 slef useful to know, indeed 18:07 gmcharlt nengard: it's from a supybot plugin that somebody on #code4lib had put together 18:11 slef @roulette 18:11 munin slef: *click* 18:12 brendan slef stays safe again 18:12 brendan @roulette 18:12 munin *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?! 18:12 * munin reloads and spins the chambers. 18:13 slef brendan: remind me not to swap lucky charms with you. 18:20 jdavidb @roulette 18:20 munin jdavidb: *click* 18:23 cait @roulette 18:23 munin cait: *click* 18:23 * cait surprised 18:48 jdavidb @roulette 18:48 munin jdavidb: *click* 18:48 * jdavidb snaps his fingers. 18:48 cait @roulette 18:48 munin cait: *click* 18:49 magnus @roulette 18:49 munin *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?! 18:49 * munin reloads and spins the chambers. 18:49 magnus ouch 18:49 wizzyrea nooo! not magnus! 18:49 wizzyrea @roulette 18:49 munin wizzyrea: *click* 18:49 cait @roulette 18:49 munin cait: *click* 18:49 * wizzyrea high fives cait 18:49 magnus gaaaaahhh... 18:49 cait :) 18:54 cait @games 18:54 jdavidb @coin 18:54 munin jdavidb: tails 18:55 jdavidb hmpf. Thought so. 18:55 slef @roulette 18:55 munin slef: *click* 18:56 slef I think the "blank" comment is because munin would kick if it had ops 18:56 jdavidb heh. That'd be amusing. 18:56 owen If munin had ops at least *someone* could update our topic. 18:57 slef bots and ops is often risky 19:00 slef 30 minutes until ukgov leaders election debate 19:37 chris morning 19:39 chris_n hi chris 19:43 cait morning chris 19:43 brendan morning chris 19:44 brendan @roulette 19:44 munin brendan: *click* 19:44 cait @roulette 19:44 munin cait: *click* 19:44 collum @roulette 19:44 munin *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?! 19:44 * munin reloads and spins the chambers. 19:48 cait ok, time to stop playing and go to bed - good night all :) 19:48 * owen find the situation not quite grim enough to play Russian roulette 20:33 richard hi 20:50 sekjal @whatis LDAP 20:50 munin sekjal: "LDAP" could be a wicked pain to get working 20:56 chris back 20:57 richard hi chris and sekja 20:57 brendan wb chris 20:57 richard sekjal even :) 20:58 sekjal :) 21:11 chris hi jo 21:12 richard very interesting article - http://koha-community.org/hlt-koha-committee-report-on-discussions-with-ptfs/ 21:13 chris our waldo friend has chipped in with a comment already 21:20 jo yes I saw that. 21:20 jo I am amzed at the low level response 21:21 jo don't believe thatthe community doesn't care ... so shocked I guess but good or bad ? 21:22 chris not sure most people have seen it yet 21:22 wizzyrea oh we care 21:22 jo esp in USA 21:22 reed you cover things pretty nicely in the posting too - so less to clarify by comments 21:22 wizzyrea ^^ what he said 21:22 jo yeah I forgot that time difference 21:22 jo thanks Reed 21:23 jo we went for comprehensive and complete rather than short and sweet 21:23 reed it's an important document 21:23 jo Hi Liz 21:24 wizzyrea hello jo :) 21:24 jo Lordy I am so tired my eyeballs feel like sandpaper 21:24 chris ditto 21:24 jo you have to be gentle with me today Chris :) 21:25 jo and ditto 21:30 wizzyrea thoughts on this? http://koha-community.org/get-involved/for-developers/ 21:30 gmcharlt wizzyrea: the searchbox you put in isn't a search of the repos' contents, but of the repos names 21:30 wizzyrea ah okies ty wil fix 21:31 wizzyrea will even 21:31 gmcharlt i.e., I suggest getting rid of it 21:31 wizzyrea done 21:31 gmcharlt and a direct link to http://git.koha-community.org/ somewhere there would be nice 21:31 wizzyrea yep, wil ldo that too 21:44 Nate gnight #koha! 22:14 chris http://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2010-April/023637.html 22:15 chris so the choice is clear 22:15 chris join the ptfs fork 22:15 chris s/fork/split 22:15 chris fork implies open source 22:15 chris or stay with koha 22:15 chris i hope libraries chose wisely 22:16 chilts wizzyrea: I just looked at that page, there's a slight link fix to be made : the 'kohadocs.git' link underneat 'Project' in the table needs a 'git.' at the start 22:16 chilts otherwise, looks awesome :) 22:19 larsw I've been working on my Debian package for Koha mostly alone, sometimes talking things with chris; would it be welcome if I explain my plans and goals on koha-devel so others could suggest things? 22:20 chris i wonder if someone should say, the bullying attitude as invinced in this email is a major reason the conference call was declined 22:20 reed oh, wow, so it's official then - ptfs is stepping away 22:20 chris yep 22:20 reed makes the path forward simple enough 22:24 gmcharlt larsw: go for it 22:25 gmcharlt in particular, I imagine that there will need to be a debate on the best way to slice and dice the packages to help those who run Koha on split-server configurations 22:26 jo and the fork is official 22:29 jo I'm relieved to be honest. 22:29 jo clear choices to be made 22:29 jo open source or not 22:30 jo WE just keep doing what we are doing. 22:30 chris_n jo++ # and more so 22:32 reed (little gang of us here at cat. chatting it up agreeingly) 22:44 jo hi Nicole 22:48 nengard hi jo 22:48 nengard just came on to see if anyone else was talking about the real nature of open source 22:52 chris im too stupid apparently 22:52 chris right going to see a demo at larsw desk 22:52 chris bbiab 22:53 nengard LOL - no one thinks that - no one who knows a thing about Koha, you, and open source that is 22:53 gmcharlt chris: please thank larsw for demoing open source for you ;) 23:02 Joann hi nicole - sorry having trouble with my PC - i keep locking up 23:04 nengard no prob at all 23:04 nengard am trying to write 2 presentations for tomorrow 23:04 nengard i thought i had the day off!!! -- and by off I mean time to work on my real job 23:07 Joann hehe 23:07 chris nice reply from lori 23:08 Joann the LL - PTFS experience reveals a lot about the true source of open source - 23:08 Joann and what the community is prepared to defend in ternms of core values and principles 23:09 nengard I'm editing my book on open source for libraries and it's shocking how many times I say the word 'community' 23:09 nengard hopefully people learn from what i wrote 23:09 chris its a good book 23:09 nengard and it gets drilled into their heads what it's all about 23:10 chris every library should buy 2 copies 23:10 chris :) 23:10 nengard Thanks chris!!! 23:10 nengard it has a pretty good foreword if i do say so myself 23:11 chris hehe 23:11 larsw free and open source software is all about people. people form communities spontaneously. it's not surprising it's a common word in these contexts. (but I really hate it when someone say "I am going to create a community. I just registered a domain name...") 23:11 * mason waves from kapiti.... 23:11 chris hi mason 23:12 moodaepo nengard++ 23:12 moodaepo PTFS-- 23:15 chilts nengard++ your book looks great :) 23:15 nengard thanks chilts 23:15 nengard july 2010 is right around the corner :) that's when it comes out 23:16 Joann how come they've seen the book? 23:16 chilts I haven't seen it, just a webpage :) 23:16 Joann I still havn't manged to buy a copy of the first one yet .. 23:24 nengard Joann - http://opensource.web2learning.net has info on it - that's what they saw - well not chris - he saw the book cause he wrote the foreword so he has to read the book :) 23:25 nengard one presentation done -- one to go :) 23:25 chilts yeah, that's what I saw :) 23:25 chilts good luck nengard 23:25 nengard thanks 23:29 russ Joann: i was away yesterday, got your email and Chris and I are sorting a commitment today 23:30 chris yep 23:34 Joann that would be great if you can. its coz its public money and auditors get worried about potential liability etc 23:35 chris yep 23:36 Joann you are amazing Nicole... I don't know how you manage to fit so much into your life 23:37 Joann chris: thanks 23:37 nengard Joann - me either :) 23:38 nengard but as you all saw - when I crash - I really really crash 23:38 nengard or as you all read/heard :)