Time  Nick            Message
00:02 psychokiller    what does that tell me ?
00:03 psychokiller    i just need kphja
00:03 psychokiller    koha
00:07 moodaepo        psychokiller: when do you get that error?
00:10 psychokiller    when i tried this
00:10 psychokiller
00:13 psychokiller    http://bagno.be/poradniki/instalacja-koha/
00:13 psychokiller    just followed this
00:13 psychokiller    got that message
00:13 psychokiller    tough luck
02:01 chris           hello
02:59 richard         hellio chris
02:59 richard         how's singapore?
03:20 eythian         richard: chris'll be giving his demo in about 10 minutes, probably been preparing :)
03:21 richard         ah
03:21 eythian         oh, no, this time tomorrow I think.
03:25 Amit_G          hi all
03:29 chris           yeah 4.30pm singapore time tomorrow
03:29 chris           so 9.30pm nz time
03:42 ebegin          hello!
03:42 ebegin          chris, do you still in charge of the translation? :)
03:42 chris           yep, will hand over to frederic1 soon, but still in charge at the moment
03:43 chris           im unlinkely to be able to do much until saturday tho, am in singapore at the moment
03:43 chris           heh, unlikely even
03:43 ebegin          I just noticed that the translation of the submit button are not getting listed in pootle... exemple: <input type="submit" value="Submit Changes" ... >
03:44 ebegin          chris, I wish I was in Singapore too!!!
03:44 ebegin          @wunder montreal, quebec
03:44 munin           ebegin: The current temperature in Montreal, Quebec is -1.0�C (10:00 PM EST on March 09, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: -10.0�C. Windchill: -4.0�C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
03:45 ebegin          Is there is a way to detect them to be included in the translation packages?
03:46 chris           ahh there is a bug for that
03:46 chris           its harder than including them
03:46 chris           because some scripts use the value
03:47 chris           so if you translate them, the script breaks
03:47 chris           so needs to use a hidden input instead
03:47 chris           then we can translate them
03:48 ebegin          or the code could check for the name attribute instead of the value...
03:49 ebegin          since we know that there is a problem related to that, it's ok.
04:42 Nouman          Good morning
05:10 wajasu          when i create my work branch i used origin/3.0.x
05:10 wajasu          but i pulled that a day ago
05:10 wajasu          is that the latest?
05:11 wajasu          or are changes not done very often
05:11 wajasu          or is that not the latest dev branch or tag?
07:28 Ropuch          Morning #koha
07:40 Amit_G          heya Ropuch
07:41 Ropuch          Hi Amit_G
09:46 magnus          next week i will be bragging to norwegian librarians about all the protocols that koha supports: Z39.50, SRU, OAI-PMH, ILS-DI, CoinS, OpenSearch, SIP2 - have i missed any?
09:59 chris           CAS
09:59 chris           LDAP
10:03 chris           i think thats all of them
10:48 magnus          thanks chris, i'll add those two!
10:49 magnus          CAS is for logging in, right?
10:52 chris           yep
12:45 jdavidb         <!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="Appropriate_greeting_for_your_timezone" -->, #koha!
12:48 jwagner         @wunder 20740
12:48 munin           jwagner: The current temperature in Hollywood, College Park, Maryland is 6.2�C (7:47 AM EST on March 10, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 69%. Dew Point: 1.0�C. Windchill: 6.0�C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1014.8 hPa (Steady).
12:49 magnus          @wunder bodo, norway
12:49 munin           magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -1.0�C (1:20 PM CET on March 10, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: -2.0�C. Windchill: -4.0�C. Pressure: 29.77 in 1008 hPa (Falling).
13:11 chris_n         @wunder 28334
13:11 munin           chris_n: The current temperature in Erwin, North Carolina is 12.0�C (7:42 AM EST on March 10, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 3.0�C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Steady).
13:11 chris_n         jdavidb: lol
13:11 chris_n         g'morning #koha
13:11 jdavidb         :)
13:12 * chris_n       heads off to the failed raid array data recovery salt mine
13:12 jdavidb         Hi, owen. :)
13:12 owen            Hi
13:12 chris_n         howdy owen
13:12 owen            Tally of bug fixes yesterday: 1.
13:13 owen            I hope others had some luck
13:13 chris_n         that's one less bug ;)
13:13 jdavidb         you beat me by one, owen.  Good job.
13:13 * jdavidb       spent the day flailing away on other matters.
13:14 owen            Off topic, but does anyone here use 64-bit Windows 7?
13:14 * jdavidb       shudders.
13:14 owen            Oh that's not good :)
13:14 * jdavidb       only uses Windows at work because the bosses make me, and at home only because of one game that just won't run in wine.
13:16 * owen          is trying to decide whether 64-bit is worth the trouble over 32-bit on a machine with 8GB RAM
13:16 collum          My colleague 10 feet away is using 7, but we just checked and it's 32 bit.
13:17 collum          But she has had no problem with 7.  She was formerly on vista.
13:26 chris_n         owen: most likely it is only useful if your favorite app is also 64 bit
13:27 chris_n         otherwise there are performance penalties due to the the way ram is reserved in a 64 bit environment iirc
13:27 * chris_n       runs 64 bit ubuntu
13:28 owen            Interesting...I thought there were disadvantages to the way 32-bit Windows handled that much RAM
13:29 * owen          isn't very up on the subject, but got the opportunity to snag a new computer here at work
13:35 jwagner         I bought a new laptop for one of my nieces last year, and got one with 4GB RAM.  It came with 64-bit Vista which surprised me; they said 32-bit couldn't handle 4GB RAM.  Don't know if she's had any other problems -- the first one we found was that the antivirus software the college provides free didn't have a 64-bit version.
13:39 collum          That's the problem we are finding.  Our PC tech was going to replace public computers at one of our locations with machines with the 64-bit version, but some of the apps were not yet available.  The main one being PC Reservation.
13:40 * owen          sees in the logs that psychokiller was in fine form yesterday
13:40 * jwagner       says the OTHER niece got a laptop with only 3GB RAM and 32-bit Vista....
13:40 chris_n         vista/win7 use a completely different memory management algorithm which is much improved over XP, et al.
13:40 chris_n         XP had a hard coded limit of 4GB iirc
13:40 chris_n         as well
13:41 jwagner         It's a tough life, being a fairy god-aunt....
13:42 chris_n         as I understand it, a 64bit os reserves wider slices of ram for application use than 32 bit; but the 32bit app can only access some portion smaller than that reserved by the os
13:42 chris_n         so there is some inefficiency from that prospective
13:43 chris_n         as a rule we only run the 64bit version of the os here if a) it is the only thing that will support the hardware (ie. xp will not support more than 2 cores) or b) the main app is in 64bit form
13:44 jdavidb         owen:  he'd just appeared when I left for the day.  Reading the logs has been...uhm...interesting.  Like watching a forty-car pileup on the Beltway.
13:44 chris_n         hehe
13:44 * collum        must now go and read the logs.
13:46 * jwagner       too
13:46 * jdavidb       hasn't seen anything quite like that in a while.  For which he is duly grateful.
13:46 Ropuch          chris_n: 64bit XP can handle up to 128GB
13:47 jdavidb         props to joetho and wizzyrea for telling him to tone down the tacky talk.
13:47 jdavidb         And to Ropuch for tryin' to help him.
13:48 Ropuch          ;>
13:49 * chris_n       thinks an op would have been nice at that point in time
13:49 * jdavidb       nominates Ropuch for the #koha Loving-the-Hard-To-Love prize.
13:49 jwagner         Hmmmm...  Maybe there are advantages to being out sick :-)
13:49 chris_n         Ropuch: tnx, I did not realize that
13:49 chris_n         will it handle more than 2 cores?
13:49 jwagner         Ropuch++
13:50 jdavidb         Ropuch++
13:50 chris_n         Ropuch++
13:51 * owen          is amused by Microsoft's windows 7 Upgrade Advisor, which doesn't seem to noticed 80% of the programs I have installed
13:52 * owen          is even more amused that Microsoft's Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor reports that Microsoft's Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor is compatible with Windows 7
13:52 jdavidb         lol
13:52 jdavidb         I should hope so.
13:52 Ropuch          chris_n: don't know - here's memomry capabilities http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778(VS.85).aspx
13:53 Ropuch          But I'm not sure if xp can handle more than 4 cores
13:53 Ropuch          Um, 2 cores
13:54 Ropuch          Oh, it seems it can
13:56 chris_n         hmm... I have installed xp 32bit on several systems with quad cores and had no success in it acknowledging more than two cores
13:57 chris_n         but in any case, the improvement in both memory management and multicore support in Win7 is worth the switch imho
13:57 * collum        must be a slow reader or my brain was seizing up
14:02 Ropuch          Let's face it: XP is best thing MS ever released, but it's been 10 years now
14:02 Ropuch          I have never installed Vista, but i removed couple of it ;>
14:02 jwagner         I took one look at Vista & stubbornly clung to my XP installs.  Is Win7 any better?
14:03 collum          My laptop was mistakenly delivered with XP.  I didn't complain.
14:03 Ropuch          Well, Win7 sems to be ok, I have it preinstalled on my new laptop, but I'm rarely booting into it
14:03 Ropuch          collum: ;>
14:05 Ropuch          XP was so good it was marketing disaster for MS actually
14:06 Ropuch          Even now I was provided for extra xp drivers and install instruction for my new lap by my supplier ;>
14:06 Ropuch          Despite Win7 on board
14:08 chris_n         the very few systems here running Win7 are gathering very few complaints
14:09 chris_n         Vista was a total disaster and we skipped it entirely
14:09 chris_n         the library here will be going ubuntu this summer, however :)
14:12 magnus          ubuntu++
14:34 * owen          is getting tired of receiving Ms. Espiau-Bechetoille's vacation auto-responder messages
14:41 owen            Hi sekjal
14:42 sekjal          morning, owen
15:10 jwagner         owen and anyone else, see Bug 4314 -- any issues you can think of with the proposed fix?
15:10 munin           04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4314 enhancement, P5, ---, jwagner@ptfs.com, ASSIGNED, Flag for SSL Enabled to fix 3rd Party Enhanced Content in OPAC
15:13 jwagner         And how do you add a syspref with the new syspref interface?  I remember traffic about that, but don't remember a solution.
15:14 owen            jwagner: Is there anything that needs to be done for Amazon and Baker & Taylor content?
15:16 jwagner         I don't know.  EBPL only uses Syndetics and LT, and I don't have SSL enabled anywhere else.
15:16 jwagner         Was hoping someone else would know :-)
15:16 jwagner         The initial thought was to make it a Syndetics-specific syspref.  Then Chris realized LibraryThing also needed it.  If it's a generic syspref, it can be applied to any 3rd party calls.
15:19 gmcharlt        jwagner: no need for a syspref - just pass a template variable if Koha detects that the page request uses SSL
15:20 jwagner         gmcharlt, I don't know how to do that :-(
15:23 jdavidb         I had thought of that, gmcharlt, when this came in for jwagner and me.  that would user-proof it.
15:26 gmcharlt        jwagner: jdavidb: I just sent a patch
15:27 gmcharlt        adds a variable available to all templates that lets you do <!-- tmpl_if name="using_https" --> ...
15:30 jdavidb         gmcharlt++
15:31 jwagner         gmcharlt++ and thanks!  If I see how you do it, maybe I can figure it out myself next time :-)
15:32 jwagner         So then in the template, just add in the checks for using_https where needed, correct?
15:33 * jdavidb       sends cookies to gmcharlt.
15:33 jdavidb         sure 'nuf, jwagner, that's all you'll have to do.
15:34 * jwagner       owes gmcharlt a beverage of his choice :-)
15:57 owen            So if debug level = 2 we get lots of information, level 1 we get some, and level 0 we get "production mode - trapped fatal error"
15:58 owen            Seems to me that could be a little friendlier.
16:13 ccurry          Morning everyone.  I have a question about installing patches in  This bug: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3550 (subtitle display) has been patched and I want to apply it to my install without upgrading to 3.2.  Since this bug applied to HEAD, I expect the patches were only applied there, correct?  Is there an easier way to apply this patch to current...
16:13 munin           04Bug 3550: enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, nahuel.angelinetti@biblibre.com, ASSIGNED, Use GetRecordValue to get the subtitle
16:13 ccurry          ...stable without cherry picking all of the changes in every effected template?
16:16 ccurry          If it's relevant, I'm using a standard install, not a dev install.
16:42 ccurry          nahuel & owen?  I don't need an answer in a hurry, but I'm headed to lunch, so if you have an ideas for me, I'd be very appreciative if you emailed them to me @ ccurry@amphilsoc.org.  I'll log back in after work if you'd prefer to answer me here.  Cheers!
16:42 nahuel          ??
16:45 owen            nahuel: ccurry was wondering if "GetRecordValue" works in for getting subtitles
16:45 nahuel          yep and ?
16:45 nahuel          he just should checkout 3.0.x
16:45 nahuel          it was integrated
16:47 schuster        OK since there are programmers here...  I had a programmer ask me about where these calls <!-- tmpl_if name="using_https" --> reside? using_https ?
16:48 nahuel          it's a variable defined in the .pl file
16:49 jwagner         schuster, nowhere yet -- gmcharlt sent that patch in response to my new Bug 4314.  I'm working on changes for Syndetics and LibraryThing
16:49 munin           04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4314 enhancement, P5, ---, jwagner@ptfs.com, ASSIGNED, Flag for SSL Enabled to fix 3rd Party Enhanced Content in OPAC
16:50 jwagner         I have a patch worked out but not tested yet.
16:51 schuster        thanks nahuel - we are working on a batch load program that would run as a cron so we are having to build things into the borrower_import.pl with some command line options since there isn't user interaction.
16:52 nahuel          :)
16:52 nahuel          great
16:52 schuster        hmmm  Guess I should write up the Enhancement and get people's feedback.  Pointing out my personal faults bowing to Jwagner for scolding her once on this.
16:52 jwagner         schuster ?
17:06 jwagner         Hi chyde
17:07 chyde           hi jane
17:07 chyde           hi all
17:18 chris_n         heya chyde
17:27 gmcharlt        hi chyde
17:29 tomascohen      hi, i have a perl question regarding CGI
17:29 tomascohen      in general koha devs use $input->param('name')
17:30 tomascohen      to read post variables
17:30 tomascohen      but i've found they use other method too
17:30 tomascohen      using %myparameters = $input->Vars
17:31 tomascohen      in which cases would you recommend one or the other?
17:35 moodaepo        @weather 56001
17:35 munin           moodaepo: The current temperature in South on Monks, Mankato, Minnesota is 4.7�C (11:32 AM CST on March 10, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 92%. Dew Point: 4.0�C. Windchill: 3.0�C. Pressure: 29.44 in 996.8 hPa (Steady).  Dense fog advisory in effect until 6 PM CST this evening... 
17:35 * jdavidb       waves at chyde
17:37 jdavidb         2wunder 20817
17:37 jdavidb         @wunder 20817
17:37 munin           jdavidb: The current temperature in Langley Fork Park, McLean, Virginia is 15.7�C (12:36 PM EST on March 10, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 49%. Dew Point: 5.0�C. Pressure: 29.93 in 1013.4 hPa (Falling).
17:37 tomascohen      @wunder cordoba, argentina
17:37 munin           tomascohen: The current temperature in Cordoba Aerodrome, Argentina is 22.0�C (12:00 PM ART on March 10, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 64%. Dew Point: 17.0�C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1015 hPa (Falling).
17:38 tomascohen      any perl/CGI monk there?
17:39 * jdavidb       submits a bill to his Congresscritter to pass a law that the US term for places where aircraft take off and land shall be henceforth "aerodrome."
17:39 jdavidb         tomascohen:  As far as I can tell, the advantage to the %myparams approach is that then you can pass all of the params as a group.
17:40 jdavidb         (you could, then use foreach or similar constructs on it, when desirable.)
17:41 Sharon          Hi all, I'm create a report that needs to pull historic circ data migrated into the field marked in this screenshot: http://screencast.com/t/NzlmOTczZm
17:41 Sharon          What field is that so I can include it in my weeding report?
17:42 jdavidb         Sharon:  should be items.issues.
17:42 jwagner         I think it's items.issues, isn't it?
17:42 Sharon          cool, thanks.
17:43 jwagner         @quote random
17:43 munin           jwagner: Quote #25: "<wizzyrea> ha, in #koha we don't pick each other's brains... we git pull them." (added by gmcharlt at 03:40 PM, August 14, 2009)
17:44 tomascohen      javidb: I understand how to use it, my question would be 'when it is desirable?'
17:44 tomascohen      as far as I can see it could be used everywhere
17:46 tomascohen      and use $input->param before that for asking if we do need to pull the rest of the variables
17:46 Sharon          thank you Jane and David
17:46 tomascohen      (i mean, as a sketch for any script)
17:46 Sharon          my report was right, just needed to find an example to prove it!
17:59 Rockliff        hello. anyone know where i can find out about where koha-reservesdirect integration is going?
18:03 owen            Rockliff: I haven't heard of that. Where did you hear about it?
18:04 Rockliff        owen: the reservesdirect site. "The Koha (http://www.koha.org/) Open Source Integrated Library System project is using ReservesDirect to build a reserves module into its ILS."
18:04 Rockliff        http://www.reservesdirect.org/wiki/index.php/Contributing_to_ReservesDirect
18:07 jdavidb         tomascohen, other than the use case I just mentioned, I can't see any particular preference one way or the other, really.  Operationally, it should work fine either way.
18:08 sekjal          Rockliff: this may be something that LibLime initiated.  looks like the edit was made back in May 08
18:09 owen            Rockliff: And anything LibLime is working on is affecting only their proprietary fork of Koha
18:09 schuster        I had heard that LL was building a "reserves" module but not sure if it got off the ground...  It was promised to WALDO libraries this spring.
18:09 Rockliff        sekjal: aha. so no plans in the non-liblime community to integrate reservesdirect code, then?
18:10 sekjal          Rockliff: I've taken a look, and doing such an integration wouldn't be too bad, depending on how you wanted the workflow to look
18:10 Sharon          schuster, I was looking at the release notes for LL yesterday and course reserves are part of LLEK
18:11 Sharon          www.liblime.com/products/koha/liblime-enterprise-koha/llek-release-notes
18:11 owen            Rockliff: Plans for enhancements to Koha are driven largely by sponsorship, so without a sponsor for that developers aren't likely to take it on.
18:12 Rockliff        i wonder if liblime's reserves module is made up of reservesdirect code? they don't mention it...
18:13 sekjal          Rockliff:  I wouldn't be surprised
18:13 Rockliff        sekjal: when you say integration, what exactly do you mean?
18:15 sekjal          Rockliff: there are two ways to go.  You could write connectors so that a Reserves Direct install will talk to a Koha install, or you could adapt the RD code to be a part of Koha
18:15 sekjal          the former is probably easier, but the latter would have a more integrated user experience
18:16 Rockliff        sekjal: right. so in the first case, the flow of data would be koha > reservesdirect, really, right?
18:16 gmcharlt        Rockliff: note the modification date on http://www.reservesdirect.org/wiki/index.php/Contributing_to_ReservesDirect
18:17 Rockliff        gmcharlt: yes, i have
18:17 sekjal          users would need to login to RD in the first case, and it would communicate both directions with Koha
18:19 Rockliff        sekjal: so RD would alter availability info in koha...
18:21 sekjal          well, physical items would still need to be checked out from Circ... so I suppose one-way communication would work
18:21 sekjal          RD would just tell the user what the library has on reserve, and s/he would then need to go in and pick it up.
18:23 sekjal          in that case, though, RD wouldn't be functioning as much more than an interactive list, indicating which courses the items are on reserve for.  all circ would still need to be done in Koha
18:24 sekjal          though RD does allow for electronic reserves, so it would also be providing that service integrated with the physical reserves
18:24 Rockliff        sekjal: in our case, we're a small graduate institute considering koha
18:24 Rockliff        we non-circulating, so that doesn't matter much to us.
18:24 Rockliff        s/we/we're
18:26 ccurry          owen & nahuel: Thanks.  Got your response from earlier.
18:27 sekjal          I'm of two minds about it.  the first case would probably be the least amount of effort for the most gain, but creating an integrated Koha Course Reserves would be fun, and allow some tighter integration
18:28 Rockliff        sekjal: now this raises another question i've had. koha is mainly perl, right? is it ok for individual modules to be in other languages, or does this cause big problems for everyone else?
18:30 sekjal          oooh, bigger question than I can answer on my own
18:30 sekjal          everything in Perl would be simpler
18:30 sekjal          but I don't suppose it would be strictly necessary, depending on the nature of the module
18:32 gmcharlt        Rockliff: Perl for core business logic would definitely be preferable
18:32 gmcharlt        if you like C, writing it as an XS is another approach ;)
18:32 jwagner         Would having modules in other languages limit development?  Currently developers know everything is in Perl & work accordingly.
18:33 Rockliff        hm, maybe i need to learn perl.
18:34 sekjal          Rockliff: it's pretty neat.  I think I've gotten to like it as well or better than PHP
18:37 Rockliff        there are really 3 things i want in koha which aren't there now: 1. course reserves; 2. a working oclc connexion gateway; 3. MODS support. it's hard to tell how far along any of these are, or how much work they'd entail.
18:38 Rockliff        now, #3 is technically possible, right? i mean, zebra is just as happy with MODS as MARC, right?
18:38 owen            What do you mean by MODS support? You can get MODS *out* of Koha via unapi
18:38 sekjal          yes, Zebra can ingest pretty much any XML, I think.  we'd just have to configure how it parses the data, and then figure out the management of the MODS record in the database
18:39 Rockliff        owen: i mean support for cataloging in MODS, actually.
18:40 sekjal          I've talked to OCLC about developing a Gateway; I have the documentation somewhere.... (have changed jobs since)
18:40 gmcharlt        a gateway wouldn't be hard to write
18:41 sekjal          just need the TCP/IP details to get hashed out, then configure Connexion to point to Koha
18:41 Rockliff        sekjal: you're not working for bywater now, by any chance?
18:41 gmcharlt        re actually cataloging in mods - Zebra can support it, and there's a relatively clear path to implementing it in Koha, particularly if MODs would be used as a drop-in substitute for a MARC bib record
18:42 sekjal          Rockliff: why, yes, I am!  we spoke, didn't we?
18:42 Rockliff        gmcharlt: what do you mean by drop-in substitute?
18:42 gmcharlt        Rockliff: are there currently any *good* external MODS editors you can recommend?
18:42 gmcharlt        drop-in subtitute - a MODS record acting as a bibliographic entity with the same semantics as a MARC21 bib
18:43 Rockliff        gmcharlt: yikes. nothing as streamlined as the cataloging interface in koha.
18:44 Rockliff        gmcharlt: the only problem with that is it would rob MODS of some of what makes it an improvement on MARC, wouldn't it?
18:44 gmcharlt        depends on what your goals are
18:45 gmcharlt        MODS-qua-MARC with human-readable tags, doesn't make a difference as far as Koha's implicit idea of a biliographic entity is concerned
18:46 gmcharlt        extending things so that there is a more explicit representation of (say) FRBR group 1 entities would mean more changes to Koha's metadata structure
18:46 Rockliff        gmcharlt: right, right. well, MODS as drop-in replacement for MARC probably solves my immediate needs.
18:46 gmcharlt        not that that would be a bad idea, just more time-consuming to do than to just have MODS or MARC21 (or both) be allowable metadata formats for the same bibliographic entities
18:47 gmcharlt        do you have a corpus of MODS records already?
18:47 Rockliff        no, i'm considering a wholesale migration from MARC to MODS.
18:47 Rockliff        considering. :)
18:48 gmcharlt        would you still need to ingest MARC (presumably converting it to MODS along the way), or would most of your cataloging by original?
18:49 Rockliff        the former.
18:51 Rockliff        sekjal: i'll want to get in touch with someone at bywater for a quote on hosting, by the way. i've talked a bit to the people at equinox already.
18:53 sekjal          Rockliff: sure thing.
18:53 Rockliff        gmcharlt: the immediate impetus for the idea was the difficulty of combining terms from multiple vocabularies in, e.g., one MARC 6xx field, identifying the source of each explicitly.
18:54 gmcharlt        i.e., you want do be able to (in effect) mix headings from one theaurus and subdivisions from another?
18:55 Rockliff        well, here... there's the 654 field, already. here's an example from LOC:
18:55 Rockliff        654  	0#$cr$alandscape gardens$cy$b18th century$cz$bEngland.$2aat
18:55 Rockliff        now, the $2 identifies the source as the getty AAT.
18:56 Rockliff        but 'England'? where's that from?
18:57 Rockliff        even a repeatable $2 doesn't really solve the problem, which is endemic to MARC
18:57 Rockliff        parsing the subfielded data relies on subfield order, which is just not a great idea.
18:57 gmcharlt        similar issues best the $0
18:58 gmcharlt        *beset
18:58 Rockliff        right.
18:58 Rockliff        but MODS allows for one <subject> to wrap multiple terms, each with its own namespace, essentially.
19:03 gmcharlt        yep, although I note that it doesn't seem to allow a distinct authority attribute for subject.topic, subject.geographic, subject.temporal
19:03 gmcharlt        does AAT specify that one can draw geographic terms from LCSH?
19:04 Rockliff        well, the thing is, not too many people use AAT to construct precoordinated strings, apparently.
19:05 Rockliff        nor do they use it to describe monographs.
19:06 gmcharlt        but you do?  or were you just drawing on the example from LC's website?
19:06 Rockliff        we would like to, yeah.
19:09 Rockliff        gmcharlt: and no, it doesn't look like @authority is explicitly allowed at that level. but MODS, unlike MARC, is extensible.
19:09 gmcharlt        and in turn gives one more levels of knobs to fiddle with - both a good and a bad thing
19:10 gmcharlt        but yeah, if you do a <geographic mymodsext:authority="lcsh">English</geographic>
19:10 gmcharlt        it's better than nothing
19:11 gmcharlt        and wouldn't interfere with goal 14 (http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods/design-principles-mods-mads.html)
19:13 Rockliff        yeah, and "lcsh" could just as easily be a URI.
19:14 gmcharlt        yep
19:14 gmcharlt        although brings right back to the question of the editor
19:15 Rockliff        yes, that's true
19:16 Rockliff        i really wonder if there's any reason for @authority not to be available one level deeper, or if it's a relic of the way things have been in MARC...
19:16 gmcharlt        i.e., I'd argue that a *good* metadata editor is not one that requires the catalogers to have to think about such matters except when absolutely necessary
19:16 gmcharlt        my guess is that it's a relic of MARC21 practice
19:17 Rockliff        oh, know what?
19:17 Rockliff        RDA-related change: Add authorityURI and valueURI attributes to subject subelements (October 14, 2009)
19:17 Rockliff        there we go.
19:17 Rockliff        http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods/changes-3-4.html
19:18 Rockliff        i knew that, but completely forgot.
19:18 * gmcharlt      kills off mymodsext:authority, then
19:19 gmcharlt        presumably kcoyle and jphipps have set up a registry equivalent of http://www.loc.gov/marc/sourcecode/authorityfile/authorityfilesource.html
19:20 ccurry          I asked this question earlier: I have a question about installing patches in  This bug: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3550 (subtitle display) has been patched and I want to apply it to my install without upgrading to 3.2.  Since this bug applied to HEAD, I expect the patches were only applied there, correct?  Is there an easier way to apply this patch to current...
19:20 Rockliff        although i'd really like to link a given subject subelement to the uri for *that term*, not a uri for the vocabulary.
19:20 ccurry          ...stable without cherry picking all of the changes in every effected template?
19:20 ccurry          And owen replied that you should just update to pull 3.0.x.  3.0.x is not actually current stable though, is it?  since 3.0.6 is just about to be released, 3.0.x includes all of the patches leading up to it, correct?  So, repeat question, can I get these patches now without cherry picking or will I have to wait until 3.0.6 stable?
19:22 owen            I didn't actually make a recommendation ccurry, that was nahuel
19:22 ccurry          ah...sorry.  thought it was you
19:23 gmcharlt        Rockliff: alas, this is about as close you can get, in this specific case - http://id.loc.gov/authorities/sh90003064#concept
19:23 ccurry          my attention to detail is just not there today.
19:28 gmcharlt        LCSH: a country doesn't exist until it is subdivided
19:30 ccurry          anybody know when 3.0.6 will be released?
19:31 richard         hi
19:35 Rockliff        gmcharlt: in actual practice, it would probably be http://id.loc.gov/authorities/sh85056605
19:36 Rockliff        but i will confess to being a little confused about 'England.'
19:36 gmcharlt        well, of course, that's the thing - 'Great Britain' could be wildly over-broad for that AAT heading
19:37 gmcharlt        which probably means that library schools ought to remain Cataloging 101 to "Identification and Avoidance of Rabbit Holes 101"
19:37 gmcharlt        *rename
19:37 Rockliff        gmcharlt: in any case, we'd be using TGN.
19:38 gmcharlt        has anybody minted URIs for TGN - there's http://www.getty.edu/vow/TGNFullDisplay?find=england&place=&nation=&english=Y&subjectid=7002445
19:39 gmcharlt        of course, but that strikes me as a bit verbose
19:41 Rockliff        well, the getty vocabularies are a little tricky. we'd be licensing access to their data via a web service. of course, a stable public uri for each concept seems like a good idea, doesn't it?
19:41 gmcharlt        surely
19:41 gmcharlt        at least TGN seems to have stable term IDs with which to do it easily
19:44 CGI333          Hi Everyone. I've got a problem
19:44 CGI333          Can't use an undefined value as a HASH reference at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/labels/label-item-search.pl line 129.
19:45 CGI333          This error comes up when searching for a new item to add to a lable printing batch
19:46 gmcharlt        what version are you running?
19:46 CGI333          That's an excellent question.  I was told we were on 3.0.2, but the "about Koha" says 3.0.1
19:47 CGI333 to be exact
19:47 gmcharlt        ah, that's actually the current development HEAD (3.*1*.00.124)
19:48 gmcharlt        3.0.2 would be 3.00.02.something
19:48 gmcharlt        anyway, that gives a starting point
19:48 CGI333          I see.
19:48 CGI333          Thanks for the clarification
19:49 gmcharlt        what is the search you're trying to use to add to the label batch?
19:50 CGI333          Any search I've tried so far has given the same results [barcode, keyword, author]
19:52 gmcharlt        does the return results, then fail with that warning when you try to add an item to the batch?
19:53 CGI333          I never get results from the search.
19:53 CGI333          Sometimes I'll get "no response" from the search if I don't select an "added on" date range.
19:53 sekjal          I think I know this one.
19:54 sekjal          in the new label creator, there are a couple lines where the a hash is defined and assigned on the same line
19:55 sekjal          some instances of Perl don't like that
19:55 gmcharlt        ah, right
19:55 sekjal          submitted a patch a little while back
19:55 CGI333          Where can I find this patch?
19:55 gmcharlt        if you have access to the command line, what does perl -version report ?
19:56 CGI333          This is perl, v5.8.8 built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi
19:56 gmcharlt        what flavor of Linux are you running?
19:56 CGI333          Ubuntu
19:56 CGI333          The about koha page says Perl version 5.008008
20:01 CGI333          Is the patch sekjal mentioned a dead end?
20:02 sekjal          I messed up the formatting in the submission process.  working on fixing it
20:02 gmcharlt        the patch in question should resolve the problem, but at the moment there's technical difficulty getting it sent
20:02 CGI333          GREAT!
20:11 Rockliff        gmcharlt: so it seems like it might be a good idea for me to take a look at koha's metadata model to see how much work a more robust implementation of MODS might entail (before recoiling in terror and opting for just basic support)
20:12 Rockliff        where can i look for that?
20:12 gmcharlt        the database schema - I did say it was an *implicit* model
20:12 gmcharlt        :)
20:13 Rockliff        aha.
20:13 gmcharlt        but essentially, Koha currently assumes that a packet of metadata is an attribute of the bib record
20:13 gmcharlt        i.e., ye olde record-centric metadata model
20:14 Rockliff        gmcharlt: ok, i have a feeling i'll be back here with a load of questions sometime soon. :)
20:16 wizzyrea_laptop @quote add gmcharlt: which probably means that library schools ought to remain Cataloging 101 to "Identification and Avoidance of Rabbit Holes 101"
20:16 munin           wizzyrea_laptop: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
20:16 wizzyrea_laptop noo
20:16 wizzyrea_laptop @quote get 23
20:16 munin           wizzyrea_laptop: Quote #23: "<gmcharlt> /msg munin register nick password" (added by wizzyrea_ at 12:25 PM, August 06, 2009)
20:17 wizzyrea_laptop @quote add gmcharlt: which probably means that library schools ought to remain Cataloging 101 to "Identification and Avoidance of Rabbit Holes 101"
20:17 munin           wizzyrea_laptop: The operation succeeded.  Quote #67 added.
20:17 wizzyrea_laptop doh, I forgot to spellcorrect you
20:17 gmcharlt        gah - sans my s/remain/rename/ correction ;)
20:17 wizzyrea_laptop can I delete it?
20:17 wizzyrea_laptop I'll fix it :)
20:17 gmcharlt        quote rm or quote del number, I think
20:17 wizzyrea_laptop @quote rm 67
20:17 munin           wizzyrea_laptop: Error: The "Quote" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "rm" in it.  Try "list Quote" to see the commands in the "Quote" plugin.
20:17 gmcharlt        @list Quote
20:17 munin           gmcharlt: add, change, get, random, remove, search, and stats
20:18 wizzyrea_laptop @quote remove 67
20:18 gmcharlt        heh - remove
20:18 munin           wizzyrea_laptop: The operation succeeded.
20:18 wizzyrea_laptop well that is just too logical
20:18 wizzyrea_laptop @quote add gmcharlt: which probably means that library schools ought to rename Cataloging 101 to "Identification and Avoidance of Rabbit Holes 101"
20:18 munin           wizzyrea_laptop: The operation succeeded.  Quote #68 added.
20:18 wizzyrea_laptop there we go
20:18 gmcharlt        thanks
20:18 wizzyrea_laptop yw
20:23 CGI333          Is there a "how to" on applying patches to koha?
20:53 jwagner         @quote random
20:53 munin           jwagner: Quote #44: "<thd> People make bugs fairly much in the degree to which they contribute to the code" (added by gmcharlt at 04:07 PM, October 30, 2009)
20:55 CGI333          sekjal, gmcharlt I don't want to be a pain, but where will I be able to get that label printing patch you were talking about?
20:57 sekjal          I'm testing my new configurations now, and will hopefully have it submitted to the patches listserv shortly.
20:58 CGI333          Is that http://lists.koha.org/pipermail/koha-patches/
20:59 sekjal          CGI333: yes
21:00 CGI333          sekjal,You're a life-saver!
21:03 sekjal          and its off.  should be
21:04 sekjal          on the list soon
21:04 CGI333          Thanks again, sekjal.  Is there any info on the best way to apply patches?
21:05 sekjal          http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:git_usage#applying_patches may help
21:06 CGI333          Great.
21:06 gmcharlt        CGI333: it sounds like you installed by from a git clone - was that the case?
21:06 CGI333          -I- didn't install it, but yes, git was involved.
21:07 gmcharlt        ok, then an alternative approach would be do to a git fetch, then make install and make update
21:07 CGI333          Our "koha master" has moved on, and I've got to figure this out.
21:08 CGI333          Where can I find more documentation on the "get fetch" method?
21:14 sekjal          CGI333: the page linked previous has some info on using 'git fetch' with Koha.  You can also check the git manual at http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/user-manual.html
21:15 CGI333          thanks very much sekjal, and gmcharlt!  I'll probably be bothering you some more after I've done some research.
21:16 schuster        CGI333 - are you doing this on a production box or test?
21:17 CGI333          Well, I do have to fix a production box.
21:17 CGI333          Is there something I should know?
21:18 schuster        I was just concerned about the get fetch process since current HEAD is beta 3.2?  but gmcharlt and sekjal can probably speak more directly to that.
21:18 schuster        guess it would be ALPHA right now not beta.
21:19 sekjal is pretty close to HEAD
21:20 CGI333          I'm open to suggestions as to the version I should be using.
21:20 CGI333          I'd prefer stability to features at this point.
23:47 moodaepo        @weather 56001
23:47 munin           moodaepo: The current temperature in South on Monks, Mankato, Minnesota is 1.3�C (5:42 PM CST on March 10, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 99%. Dew Point: 1.0�C. Windchill: -1.0�C. Pressure: 29.49 in 998.5 hPa (Steady).  Dense fog advisory in effect until 9 am CST Thursday...