Time Nick Message 00:12 brendan wizzyrea you figure out your problem? 00:13 brendan you need to edit the first two lines of your installer/data/mysql/updatedatabase.pl file 00:14 brendan I saw that in my update and that did the trick for me (something happened during the merge or something) 00:31 * chris_n is glad he was not the only one with those two random lines 00:45 brendan yeah those two lines have got to be from a bad merge right? 01:03 chris_n yup 01:04 * chris_n tried out a vim irc plugin today 01:05 chris_n sadly it did not work too well 01:05 braedon_ :) 01:06 braedon_ i'm on empathy 01:06 braedon_ sadly it does not work too well 01:06 braedon_ but it is getting better 01:06 braedon_ yay for PPAs 01:18 chris_n wizzyrea must be very mobile atm 01:20 braedon_ chris_n: do you know what version first broke the biblio view search links? 01:20 chris_n braedon_: no, but the fix is a one-liner... hold on 01:24 chris_n braedon_: in C4/Search.pm 01:24 chris_n find this line: # $query =~ s/:/=/g; 01:24 braedon_ yipyip 01:24 chris_n and add just after it this line: $query =~ s/(?<=(ti|au|pb|su|an|kw|mc)):/=/g; 01:24 chris_n do *not* uncomment the line referred to above which is commented out 01:25 braedon_ ok 01:25 braedon_ thanks 01:25 chris_n np... and I have not yet submitted the patch to do that, but will tonight or tomorrow 01:26 braedon_ how long does it usually take for patches to be applied to the repos, out of interest 01:37 chris_n that depends on gmcharlt's schedule, but this will be in the alpha of 3.2 so not too long from now 01:37 chris_n you can also grab the patch once it posts to the list and apply it to your repo 01:38 chris_n git should work out the merge when it does show up in the main repo and you rebase 01:38 chris_n bbiab 01:40 braedon_ grr, damn empathy crashing 01:40 braedon_ ok, thanks chris_n. 01:43 Drew need some help I am new to koha and I followed the instructions from the wiki but I am getting nothing when I go to port 8080 any ideas? 01:44 braedon are you on the machine koha is on? or are you on another? 01:44 Drew another 01:44 braedon apache may not be set up correctly 01:45 braedon check your site config for koha 01:45 braedon probably something like /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/koha 01:45 braedon (that is what it is on ubuntu/debian at least) 01:46 Drew yeah that is where it is I am using that myself what am I looking for? 01:46 braedon if the hosts in that file are set up for 127.0.0.1(localhost), you will need to change them to the IP address of the server 01:47 Drew let me check 01:48 braedon eg, <VirtualHost 127.0.0.1:80> 01:48 braedon there will be one lower down for 8080 as well 01:48 Drew yes I changed them before do I need to take out VirtualHost from the title? 01:49 braedon what are they set to now? 01:49 braedon did you restart apache after changing them? 01:49 Drew <VirtualHost 192.168.1123:8080> 01:50 Drew yes, I have even restart the pc 01:50 braedon you need a extra . 01:50 braedon i presume between the two 1's 01:50 Drew thats just a typo it is there 01:50 braedon lol, ok 01:51 braedon hmm, not sure then sorry 01:51 braedon does port 80 work? 01:52 Drew no if I go to the ip it gives me the koha screen but tells me it is down for maitience 01:52 Drew so I know that apache is working 01:52 braedon yip 01:52 braedon so it is jsut the port 8080 virtualhost that isn't working 01:52 Drew or port 80 01:53 braedon the port 80 should give you a maintenance message until you set it up through 8080 01:55 braedon can you paste your whole apache koha file in pastebin or something? 01:55 Drew do I need to change anything else other than ports.conf to listen 8080 01:58 braedon as far as i am aware, no 01:58 Drew ok give me a sec 01:58 braedon but i haven't done a fresh install, so there may be something tricksy elsewhere that i am unaware of 02:05 Drew whats the best way to send it? 02:06 braedon http://pastebin.com/ 02:06 braedon then send the link 02:07 Drew http://pastebin.com/d78047351 02:13 braedon hmm, looks alright to me 02:13 braedon sorry. anyone else have any ideas? 02:14 Drew you think it is an apache problem or a koha 02:15 braedon what is it giving you on 8080 exactly? 02:16 Drew The webpage cannot be displayed 02:17 braedon i would say it is an apache config issue 02:17 Drew ok then I will look in that dirction for answers thanks for the help. 02:19 braedon no probs. sorry i couldn't be more help 02:19 braedon and don't restrict the search to apache too strictly. that is only my guess :P 02:22 chris_n Drew: is your apache configured to listen on port 8080? 02:24 braedon "- Drew, 14:52 - do I need to change anything else other than ports.conf to listen 8080" 02:29 chris_n missed that 02:32 chris_n Drew: what do the apache logs say? ie. /var/log/apache2/error.log and access.log 02:37 braedon chris_n: where abouts should that line "# $query =~ s/:/=/g;" be? The only one I an find isn't commented 02:37 braedon s/I an/I can/ 02:37 chris_n in that case, comment it and add the one I gave below it 02:38 braedon i tried that, and it doesn't seem to work 02:41 braedon what exactly is it supposed to fix(in case i am getting the wrong end of the stick here) 02:45 chris_n normalizing the query by removing all : results in the inability to search on anything containing a : 02:45 chris_n the new regexp normalizes by removing only query limit pragma 02:46 chris_n ie. ti: au: etc 02:47 chris_n but if the original line was not commented out, your search links should have worked 02:47 chris_n so maybe there is something else wronge there 02:47 chris_n what version are you using? 02:48 chris_n s/wronge/wrong/ 02:48 Drew the log says file not found 02:52 chris_n Drew: which file? 02:52 Drew error.log 02:56 chris_n which file does the log say is not found? 03:07 braedon chris_n: sorry, was afk 03:07 braedon using 3.0.5 currently 03:08 braedon have used, and is broken in, 3.0.4, and git head 03:08 braedon and git 3.0.x actually 03:08 braedon works in 3.0.1 03:08 Drew this is the line [error] [client 192.168.11.54] File does not exist: /var/www/:8080 03:09 chris ahh you are putting the :8080 in the wrong place 03:10 chris it needs to before the slash 03:10 chris http://your.ip.number:8080/ 03:10 chris or http://your.domain.name:8080/ 03:10 Drew thats what i did 03:11 chris can you paste exactly what you did? 03:11 Drew might have messed it up once but thats the only error i found 03:11 Drew 192.168.11.23:8080 03:11 chris right, well that error must have occured the one time you messed it up 03:12 chris whats in the access log? 03:15 Drew nothing that i can see thats an error 03:18 chris what does it list when you hit that url above? 03:18 Drew The webpage cannot be displayed 03:18 chris no, what does the access log say 03:19 chris does it get an entry at all? 03:19 chris and if you go 03:19 chris telnet 192.168.11.23 8080 03:19 chris do you get a connection? 03:21 Drew 127.0.0.1 - - [02/Feb/2010:11:38:52 +0900] "OPTIONS * HTTP/1.0" 200 - "-" "Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.4-2ubuntu5.10 with Suhosin-Patch (internal dummy connection)" 03:24 Drew if i telnet i get nothing it does connect 03:25 chris ok so its definitely listening on port 8080 03:25 Drew it would seem so it just won't respond 03:26 chris whats the virtualhost line of your intranet section of the httpd.conf file? 03:27 Drew the file is blank 03:35 chris_n I think on ubuntu that is apache2.conf 03:38 Drew there is no virtualhost line in that file 03:41 chris_n braedon: add '$query =~ s/(?<=rtrn):/=/g;' immediately after the line I had you add a moment ago and see if that fixes things up 03:41 chris_n both lines I had you add should be there and uncommented 03:46 Amit heya brendan, chris 03:46 Amit morning #koha 03:47 chris_n howdy Amit 03:47 Amit heya chris_n2 03:47 chris_n actually I'm just one now :-) 03:48 chris_n I got an irc proxy up and running thanks to several who pointed me in the right direction 03:52 Jo pop quizz: koha consortia serving populations over 4 million, or 'all of country or state" 03:52 Jo virtula lolly pop for the first 5 answers :) 03:57 brendan hey amit 03:57 Amit heya JO 03:58 brendan Jo "all of country" 04:00 chris http://www.scls.info/ has 3.6 million volumes does 11262790 circ transactions per year 04:03 Jo Amit: as in all of NZ, or an entire state in US or India 04:03 Jo Hands lollypop to Chris .. :) 04:04 brendan oh I get it now 04:04 chris its hard to know masscat has a lot of libraries mostly small though 04:04 brendan howard county 04:05 brendan whoops off by a month 04:05 brendan errr.. year 04:05 Jo scls - what state is that? 04:05 chris wisconsin 04:05 chris vicki 04:06 Jo cool. 04:06 Jo thanks - needed a very cool example 04:06 Amit Delhi public library completed 60 years 04:06 Amit i think oldest library in india 04:06 chris there must be 4 million ppl in delhi easy 04:06 Jo Kerala state : whats the story with that one again? 04:07 Jo delhi is a g ood one 04:07 Jo Hands lollypop to Amit :) 04:07 Amit http://dpl.gov.in/ 04:08 Jo delhi: how many branches or sites would you think? 04:08 Amit 45 branches 04:09 Jo amit: thank you. 04:09 Amit np 04:10 Jo Masscat: any idea how many partner libraries or service sites 04:11 chris no idea, you could email nora 04:11 chris nblake at masscat.org 04:12 chris ok hometime 04:12 chris bbl 04:13 Jo thanks everyone 04:13 Amit heya chris 04:32 chris_n @later tell hdl_laptop I resubmitted a corrected patch for bug 4074; the 3.0.x version is here: http://git.foundations.edu/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=925aad5aa27f327153dd0de75edfb1a4ebf6b47f and can be pulled from there if you like 04:32 munin chris_n: The operation succeeded. 04:33 chris_n g'night #koha 07:24 Ropuch Morning #koha 07:51 imp moin :) 08:25 kf hi #koha 08:29 imp heyho kf :) 08:29 kf heyho imp ;) 08:30 Ropuch Hello kf, imp :) 08:31 kf good morning Ropuch 08:44 Amit heya kf, Ropuch 08:45 magnus good time-of-the-day-or-night #koha 08:45 kf morning Amit and magnus 08:45 Amit heya magnus 08:46 magnus hi, kf and Amit 08:51 hdl_laptop hi magnus 08:51 magnus hi hdl_laptop 08:52 hdl_laptop thx chris_n. 09:43 * chris reads magnus blog 09:43 magnus chris: and understands everything? ;-) 09:44 chris mostly, google translate does a good job 09:44 chris it seems the swedish report was very complimentary toward koha 09:47 magnus oh, yes - the title says it all really 09:47 magnus they point out some things that are particular to sweden + translations, but otherwise they really like it 09:48 chris very cool 09:50 magnus yup 09:50 magnus i'm using it for all it's worth to make norwegian librarians aware of the benefits of koha too... 09:51 chris good idea 09:51 chris be nice to get a good koha presence in scandanavia 09:51 magnus i'm doing my best... 09:51 chris :) 09:52 magnus in the middle of march there will be the annual norwegian library conference, where i will have a stand to promote koha and myself. and nicomo will be there to help too :-) 09:53 magnus i'm very anxious to hear and feel what the response will be there 09:54 chris i feel that 2010 is going to be a good year for koha 09:55 magnus me too 10:00 magnus and i would love to "round it out" by going to kohacon, but i'll need some more customers first i think... 10:04 Ropuch Heh 10:06 kf German library conference is in march too 10:06 Ropuch I'm still considering sightseeing trip to NZ with Kohacon as a bonus 10:06 Ropuch But it would cost all of my savings 10:06 kf Ropuch: I know your problem 10:07 kf I would really like to go too.. but I will be really expensive 10:07 kf I = it 10:08 Ropuch Althought I'm years past my student times, I thinking about just getting there and try get some part time job to cover my expenses, just as I did in NOrway back then ;> 10:08 magnus Ropuch: sounds like a good idea! 10:08 Ropuch Librarian on the road ;-) 10:09 Ropuch The flight cost alone is a killer 10:10 kf yes :( 10:10 Ropuch And hitchhiking the plane is not an option ;> 10:13 Ropuch chris: can I assemble a tent on your yard? ;-) 10:13 Ropuch I mean: in 10:14 Ropuch Is "pitching a tent" used in realtion to a tent? 10:15 Ropuch http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pitch+a+tent 10:15 kf I ll bring mine too :) 10:15 kf hm playing with dates, not flying on weekends gets cheaper 10:15 kf still enough to buy a real nice new laptop :( 10:16 Ropuch Still it's 1300-1500 euro 10:17 kf yes 10:17 Ropuch I'm a big fan of cheap laptops ;> 10:17 kf hm I have one for 1209.00 EUR here 10:18 kf flight, not laptop 10:18 Ropuch I must geto to Germany first 10:20 kf ah ok 10:21 Ropuch Oh, +/- 50 eoros is nothing compraed to final amount ;> 10:21 kf hm? 10:23 Ropuch I was thinking about cost of trip to Berlin/Hannover 10:23 kf because it might be cheaper to fly from here? 10:24 magnus what sites are you guys using to look for tickets? any recomendations? 10:25 kf I think there are several sites for finding cheap flights - but I have no recommendation 10:25 kf flying too seldom 10:27 magnus me to... 10:29 kf perhaps chris has some tips 10:29 kf or nengard 10:31 chris i usually use travelocity 10:31 kf ah, hi chris 10:32 chris then book direct with the airline 10:32 chris lufthansa is part of the star alliance 10:32 chris same as air nz 10:33 kf star alliance? 10:33 chris means they often code share flights 10:33 chris i flew lufthansa to vienna, and also to munich 10:33 kf thx! 10:33 * Ropuch making notes 10:33 Ropuch ;> 10:33 chris they stop in singapore or thailand usually 10:33 kf me too 10:35 chris whats the nearest big airport to you kf? 10:35 kf stuttgart 10:35 kf or perhaps zürich (switzerland) 10:37 chris looks like lufthansa's main hub is frankfurt 10:37 chris so they all fly through there 10:38 kf stuttgart london seems to work too 10:38 kf and 1/2 days +- are making a difference too - will need more time for this :) 10:39 chris yeah 10:40 chris yeah stuttgart -> london -> hong kong -> nz 10:41 chris seems to be cheapest so far 10:42 chris http://www.igougo.com/traveldeals/ratefinder.aspx 10:46 chris ok time for sleep for me 10:46 chris night all 10:47 kf good night chris 10:48 magnus sleep tight 10:58 CGI693 hi All! I installed koha-3.004_fixed on debian-lenny, 10:58 CGI693 I read documents properly, but Im still in cofusion, that how koha function 10:59 CGI693 how can I place books in different shelving locations 10:59 CGI693 can any body help me? 11:01 Amit hi CGI693 11:01 Amit what problem 11:04 CGI693 Im new user of KOHA 11:05 CGI693 and I review the documentation but still Im in cofusion, that wht is different b/w item types and lists 11:05 CGI693 and how can I add books in different shelves 11:07 hdl_laptop item types are the type of items and rules for check-in and out. 11:08 hdl_laptop lists were named virtualshelves : they are just there to store some records for more visibility and work 11:10 hdl_laptop CGI693: for shelving locations, in koha, and in libraries, you can use itemcallnumber. 11:11 CGI693 how can I use callnumber 11:13 CGI693 I add some books but when I want to search these from OPAC search catalogue, they dont show there 11:15 hdl_laptop CGI693: have you launched indexation ? 11:15 hdl_laptop are you using zebra or no zebra mode ? 11:16 CGI693 Im using zebra mode 11:16 CGI693 I did not get " launched indexation" ...?? 11:20 CGI693 ?? 11:25 CGI693 Im not able to search opac catalgue from reserviours data 11:25 CGI693 while books are present but it do not show in catalogue from opac 13:27 hilongo good morning to all :) 13:27 jwagner G'morning. 13:33 jwagner Oh, by the way... 13:33 jwagner kf++ for yesterday's patron attribute help :-) 13:35 hilongo I have updated my Koha to 3.0.5 and I'm having a 'dia'critial problem ... 13:36 hilongo is there someone who can lend me a hand on that matter around? :) 13:39 kf karma yay :) 13:39 jwagner Meant to do that yesterday, but I was too excited about getting it to work! 13:40 kf jwagner++ # for discussing fines and notices with me :) 13:40 kf @karma kf 13:40 munin kf: Karma for "kf" has been increased 6 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 6. 13:41 jwagner Awwww, getting karma back :-) 13:42 jwagner hilongo, you can ask, don't know whether anyone is online that has an answer.... 13:42 kf @karma cait 13:42 munin kf: cait has neutral karma. 13:45 gmcharlt cait++ 13:46 gmcharlt kf: happy now? :) 13:47 gmcharlt hilongo: what's your question? 13:47 jwagner Hey, kf/cait can accumulate karma under two identities! That's not fair. I need to start logging in with an alternate persona!!! 13:48 kf gmcharlt: not sure this is fair 13:48 gmcharlt sockpuppets FTW! 13:49 jwagner Harrumph. 13:49 hilongo the thing is ... that I seem to have two sets of diacritics in my database.. back in v3.0.1 I fixed this adding some equivalences in word-phrase-utf.chr and sort-string-utf.chr 13:49 hilongo under /etc/koha... 13:50 owen jdavidb: Not enough time to score some karma 13:50 * jdavidb hasn't done much karma-worthy lately, anyway. 13:51 hilongo after the upgrade to v3.0.5 same problem presented, because of new word-phrase and sort-string files 13:52 hdl_laptop hi gmcharlt 13:52 gmcharlt hi hdl_laptop 13:53 hilongo but now I can't add the equivalences to the sort-string-utf.chr file, cause it complains on saving with a 'CONVERSION ERROR' from vim ... 13:53 owen jdavidb: Toiling away for clients is toiling away in obscurity 13:53 gmcharlt news for you - this evening I'll be bringing in the last of the patches for 3.2 and tarring up the alpha 13:53 jdavidb Indeed, owen. 13:54 jwagner gmcharlt++ yippeee! 13:54 gmcharlt hilongo: do you get this conversion error if you open the file in vi and try saving it without making any changes? 13:56 jdavidb gmcharlt++ 13:57 nengard gmcharlt++ woo hoo 14:03 magnus gmcharlt++ 14:03 hdl_laptop gmcharlt++ 14:04 kf gmcharlt++ 14:05 imp \o/ 14:06 * imp will try the alpha version :D 14:06 imp gmcharlt++ 14:30 Colin is hdl_laptop about? 14:30 hdl_laptop hi Colin 14:31 magnus i think there was talk a while back about making available test-installations for people to try and hunt for bugs, without requiring everyone to set up their own installations. anyone thought any more about that? 14:31 Colin Hi a question on enddate in serials. You can add a subscription without one 14:31 Colin but not receive a copy until you renew 14:32 magnus i have one at http://head.bibkat.no/ http://head.bibkat.no:8080/ username = password = demo that i will share with anyone 14:32 magnus and i'll make sure it's updated to alpha as soon as i can after it's out 14:33 Colin Was the logic to force the renew or should you require the enddate on add 14:42 jdavidb Hm...anyone seen anything useful that might help with Bug 2629 ? I've got a couple of sites that are fussing about this 14:42 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2629 major, P1, ---, jmf@liblime.com, NEW, Diacritics not being ignored when searching 14:43 hdl_laptop Colin: maybe we could require the enddate or try and process that from subscription data 14:43 hdl_laptop jdavidb: I guess you should try to setup yaz-icu 14:44 kf jdavidb: icu indexinb 14:44 nengard csv profiles question ... why are the seperators listed 2 times each? Is this a bug or is there a reason I need it twice? 14:45 kf jdavidb: you can test in our library catalog if you want to, it works fine there 14:46 jdavidb okay.. gonna go do some searching, and figure out how to do that... 14:48 nengard hdl_laptop any ideas why the seperator fields are duplicated on the CSV profiles tool? 14:49 hdl_laptop jdavidb: I posted some icu files and you have some on Univ_Lyon3 branch on git.biblibre.com 14:49 hdl_laptop nengard: bad conflict merge ? 14:49 hdl_laptop I guess. 14:49 nengard okay - so it's a bug :) 14:49 jdavidb hdl_laptop++ 14:49 nengard will report and try to fix 14:49 owen nengard: I'm working on that template now 14:49 jdavidb Thanks! Is it just a matter of installing the package, and reconfiguring/reindexing zebra? 14:50 nengard owen can you remove the dup fields then too? 14:50 owen Yes 14:50 nengard thanks :)( 14:50 nengard or :) 14:50 hdl_laptop installing the package, + tweak zebra configuration 14:51 jdavidb I see etc/zebra/etc/icu.xml; I gather that's the config that tells icu how to do stuff? 14:54 nengard okay - documentation question re: csv profiles - what does each seperator mean? what's the diff between a csv sperator, field seperator and subfield seperator? 14:55 jdavidb hdl_laptop: http://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2010-January/022269.html ? This what I need? 14:56 hdl_laptop yep 14:57 jdavidb hdl_laptop++ again, just because! Gonna spin this up on a test instance, make sure I get it right before I subject my customers to my fumblin'. 14:59 jwagner Gee, lots of karma floating around this morning :-) 15:11 wizzyrea brendan: thanks for the tip, will do :) 15:11 brendan ah sure thing wizzyrea :) 15:12 hdl_laptop nengard: csv separator is for the csv "fields" in your excel file 15:12 hdl_laptop nengard: But you can have multiple tags and subfields answering your question 15:12 hdl_laptop imagine 700$a 15:12 hdl_laptop and you have 10 700 tags... 15:13 nengard OH!!! that makes sense 15:13 hdl_laptop There comes the field separator 15:13 nengard and then the $ is the subfield separator? 15:13 hdl_laptop And had you had multiple $a in your 700 then you would use the subfield separator 15:13 hdl_laptop for instance ; as csv 15:14 hdl_laptop for instance / as field separator 15:14 hdl_laptop for instance -- as subfield separator 15:14 wizzyrea brilliant, it worked 15:14 wizzyrea thanks again 15:15 hdl_laptop my;field;is;great;Ratzinger**Benedito/Wojtila**john-Paul;.... 15:16 nengard thanks hdl_laptop!! 15:20 nengard owen just saw the work you did on subscriptions display in the OPAC - nice work!! Thanks :) 15:21 jdavidb hdl_laptop: after setting icu up, is it necessary to reindex? I've got the modified default.idx and icu.xml in place, and restarted zebra, but no change to results. 15:21 gmcharlt yes, you need to reindex 15:21 hdl_laptop sure you have to. 15:22 jdavidb figured probably so. Thanks! 15:28 Colin hdl_laptop: thanks I'll take a look at ensuring enddate gets set 15:29 hdl_laptop thanks Colin 15:39 owen hdl_laptop: Can you look at Bug 4090? 15:39 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4090 minor, P5, ---, oleonard@myacpl.org, NEW, subscription ID showing in OPAC - confusing 15:39 owen Is there a reason why a librarian would need to filter by a subscription ID? 15:40 owen The ID number doesn't mean much to the librarian, let alone a patron 15:42 hdl_laptop mmm maybe... I think it was asked. 15:43 hdl_laptop But if we could use a pretty jqueryfilter so that user can filter branchcode or even serialseq.... Then i think it would do the job 15:43 owen serialseq? 15:43 hdl_laptop serial name 15:46 owen Isn't a filter by branchcode all you would need? Unless you expect one library branch to have duplicate subscriptions to the same title 15:47 nengard owen, i would expect one library to have multiple subscriptions with the same name 15:47 nengard name/title 15:47 owen One library branch? 15:48 nengard the way it works now if you have 2 copies of Computers in Libraries at your branch you need two subscriptions 15:48 nengard yes 15:48 owen But there is no way, other than with subscription ID, to distinguish the two 15:48 nengard but as I'm the bug reporter - I still see no reason for the patron to know how many subscriptions the library has set up or their IDs 15:48 nengard owen - not that I know of ... 15:51 owen So nengard you think all we need is the library filter? 15:51 nengard On the OPAC - I see no reason why the patron would need anything else ... but if hdl_laptop was asked to put it there - maybe we need find out why 16:04 ccurry Hello everyone. A few questions about serials: 16:04 ccurry I'm working on getting the serials module working correctly (or at least limping along). When receiving a new item from within a subscription record, some data is automatically generated in the item record. The call number is applied (as defined in system preferences "itemcallnumber") and "serialseq" ( from serial items table) is inserted into subfield v Cost, replacement price. The... 16:04 ccurry ...latter is obviously a mistake, and is easy enough to fix by editing line 73 of /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/serials/serials-edit.tmpl, replacing "v" with "h" to populate h - Serial Enumeration / chronology with "serialseq" instead. 16:04 ccurry http://pastebin.com/m4e03ad68 16:05 owen Bug 3899 16:05 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3899 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, nengard@gmail.com, NEW, Receive Serial Item Has Copy Info in Wrong Field 16:06 ccurry I'm trying to do a more involved customization to populate $h with "publisheddate" from the serialitems table and append "serialseq" to the call number in $o. Any tips on how I can achieve this? 16:06 ccurry munin: thanks. good to know. 16:06 munin ccurry: Error: "thanks." is not a valid command. 16:07 ccurry interesting. I never know when I'm talking to a robot on IRC...that's a smart one. 16:08 owen munin spits out details of bugs if you give a bug number 16:08 munin owen: Error: "spits" is not a valid command. 16:08 ccurry duh 16:08 ccurry owen: thanks 16:09 ccurry I tried copying the js from the pastebin above and changing the subfield to o and replacing serialseq with publisheddate, but this doesn't output the publisheddate field...and overwrites the call number generated by system preferences, so I guess something more sophisticated is necessary? 16:15 ccurry In addition, $c, shelving location is missing from this form...I checked the MARC Bibliographic Framework and the code for the hidden field of 952$c is correct & it displays correctly when creating a non-serial item. 16:27 chris_n g'morning 16:34 schuster hey all - owen have a minute to look at something dealing with printing? 16:34 owen Sure 16:35 schuster If we pull up an item in the edit mode - and do file print we get 3 pages - title, grid, and then the Edit item #XXXX 16:36 schuster on the Edit item page all cells/fields are filled in on the printout. 16:36 schuster If we do file print and say print ONLY page 3 to 3 which is the edit item page all the fields are blank except #2, 8, a, b, c, y 16:37 schuster Thoughts? 16:38 owen schuster: This isn't a new issue is it? I seem to recall you asking about this before. 16:39 wizzyrea you know 16:39 wizzyrea what a great feature it would be to have a print friendly items view 16:40 * wizzyrea puts that on her list 16:40 schuster You are correct not a new item, but it bubbled to the top of my stack of papers again. 16:40 * chris_n wonders if wizzyrea can see the bottom of her list 16:41 wizzyrea heh, no 16:41 wizzyrea sok though 16:41 owen schuster: I get the same thing. 16:41 wizzyrea really it's more like an idea bucket 16:45 schuster Ok idea bucket tip over and let the ideas flow to completion!! wizzyrea has all the answers right? 16:46 wizzyrea no, no I don't 16:46 wizzyrea hmm 16:46 wizzyrea perhaps I should post my idea bucket somewhere online :/ 16:46 schuster I think we need to put all those ideas into bugzilla as enhancements so that others can chime in and possible help... 16:46 wizzyrea yea, but most of my ideas are half baked and kind of dum 16:46 wizzyrea b 16:46 wizzyrea ;) 16:47 schuster Hey doesn't hurt, I half baked one and I think it is almost complete!! URL checker... 16:47 schuster Timer hasn't dinged, but it is getting close. 16:47 schuster So owen any suggestions on how to fix that so the data comes all the way through? 16:48 wizzyrea you are looking at the edit items screen? 16:48 owen schuster: The print stylesheet needs to be modified 16:48 wizzyrea file a bug I'd guess 16:48 schuster yes wizzyrea - if you print all 3 pages it comes out ok, if you print page 3 of 3 most of the fields are blank. 16:49 owen http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=blob;f=koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/css/print.css;h=16996611f56fa61f365fa5343941999326d066c6;hb=HEAD 16:49 owen Line 205 says to hide <input> when printing 16:49 owen ...but I don't see why it wouldn't do that whether or not you're printing page 3 of 3 16:54 schuster smm still a mystery... 16:55 owen schuster: Were you able to tweak that file? 16:56 schuster head looks different than mine at the moment. So I'm investigating. Since I'm on like .36... 17:03 owen schuster: True. Yours probably doesn't have that line, and therefore my hypothesis is incorrect. 17:04 brendan @wunder 93117 17:04 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 12.4�C (9:00 AM PST on February 02, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 29.85 in 1010.7 hPa (Steady). 17:08 chris_n @wunder 28334 17:08 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Dunn, North Carolina is 2.0�C (12:02 PM EST on February 02, 2010). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: -4.0�C. Windchill: 0.0�C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007.0 hPa (Falling). 17:11 wizzyrea schuster: i'm trying to understand your issue. You have a problem with http://screencast.com/t/NzUwNTRmY2I 17:11 owen schuster: ...and yet the fix worked for me :| 17:11 wizzyrea that view? 17:11 owen wizzyrea: Do you have the Web Developer Firefox addon? 17:12 wizzyrea I have firebug 17:12 wizzyrea i will get it 17:12 wizzyrea if it will help 17:13 wizzyrea hmm, 3/3 looks like http://screencast.com/t/OWM2YjJjZ 17:13 owen It has a nice option for viewing pages using the CSS files for alternate media types. Good for testing your print CSS 17:13 wizzyrea oooh 17:13 chris_n neat 17:13 owen wizzyrea: That's 3/3 of a printout? 17:13 wizzyrea yea 17:15 chris_n owen: is this it? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/60?src=api 17:15 schuster 3/3 on the screen looks ok - its when it actually goes to the printer that it is missing the data. 17:15 owen wizzyrea: Yes 17:15 wizzyrea that's the print preview 17:15 wizzyrea PDF 17:15 wizzyrea <- on a mac though 17:16 wizzyrea so, if i were to print that, it would come out the same 17:16 schuster print preview looks ok that's what is strange - no probably would be missing the data. 17:16 wizzyrea not on mine 17:17 * owen highly recommends the Web Developer addon. It pre-dates Firebug and does some things Firebug doesn't 17:17 wizzyrea i just printed it L. 17:17 wizzyrea :/ 17:18 wizzyrea owen: will def check it out 17:20 schuster I downloaded it, but I need to "restart" firefox 17:20 wizzyrea http://img70.yfrog.com/i/qkkl.jpg/ 17:20 wizzyrea that's what my two prints look like :/ 17:20 owen Sorry chris_n: that "Yes" was meant for you :) 17:21 chris_n got it and installed :-) 17:21 owen Sounds like this may be a PC problem. 17:21 * chris_n loves tools that make life easier... especially with web developing 17:21 schuster can't get to that one - my network proxy blocks it... So are you missing barcode or does yours display. 17:21 * wizzyrea too 17:21 wizzyrea mine display on both 17:21 Ropuch Web Developer plugin is must ;> 17:21 schuster phewey 17:22 wizzyrea ooh look at all of the new shiny buttons 17:22 Ropuch ;> 17:22 Ropuch Evening #koha 17:22 schuster bblb 17:22 wizzyrea owen: you are on a PC? 17:22 * wizzyrea is also using FF 3.6 17:22 owen At work I am, at home I'm on a Mac. 17:23 wizzyrea you are presumably at work right now :) 17:24 * owen checks for pants 17:24 owen Yup, work. 17:24 owen http://imagebin.ca/view/NXGtHD1.html 17:25 owen schuster, is this what you see? http://imagebin.ca/view/NXGtHD1.html 17:26 schuster my *()^)*&^)&*( filter doesn't let me get to some of those sites. Are you showing me code or printout? 17:26 schuster I can share either with you... 17:27 owen http://zivotdesign.com/examples/edit-item-print-view.png 17:28 owen schuster: Your filter is protecting you. We've been trying to trick you into looking at naughty pictures at work. 17:29 schuster yes that is what I see when I look at css media type 17:29 Ropuch ..and i fell for it ;> 17:29 schuster print 17:30 owen schuster: I mean is that what you get when you print it 17:30 schuster oh yes that is what I get when I print it - but things are lined up nicely. 17:34 moodaepo @wunder 56001 17:34 munin moodaepo: The current temperature in South on Monks, Mankato, Minnesota is -8.7�C (11:30 AM CST on February 02, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 79%. Dew Point: -11.0�C. Windchill: -16.0�C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1017.8 hPa (Rising). 17:37 brendan hi moodaepo 17:38 moodaepo Hey brendan seems like we are back to being polar-opposites with ze weather : ) 17:38 brendan heh ;) 17:38 owen polar is right 17:38 schuster schuster is killing trees... sorry... 17:39 moodaepo Well the Canucks got me beat most of the time so I feel warmer when I do this... 17:39 moodaepo @wunder montreal 17:39 munin moodaepo: Error: No such location could be found. 17:39 brendan my favorite is 17:39 moodaepo @wunder Montreal, QC Canada 17:39 brendan @wunder north pole, alaska 17:39 munin moodaepo: Error: No such location could be found. 17:39 munin brendan: The current temperature in Speedway, North Pole, Alaska is -31.1�C (8:32 AM AKST on February 02, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: -999%. Dew Point: -70.0�C. Windchill: -31.0�C. Pressure: 30.02 in 1016.5 hPa (Steady). 17:39 moodaepo brendan++ 17:40 owen "Humidity: -999%" ?! 17:40 * moodaepo tries it one last time 17:40 moodaepo @wunder Montreal, Canada 17:40 munin moodaepo: The current temperature in Montreal, Quebec is -12.0�C (12:00 PM EST on February 02, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 48%. Dew Point: -21.0�C. Windchill: -18.0�C. Pressure: 30.26 in 1025 hPa (Falling). 17:40 brendan yay! 17:42 moodaepo It was -30s in Montreal a couple of weeks back when we were in the -20s, wonder how el norte pole was doing. @wunder should be able to do past weather! 17:52 indradg @wunder kolkata 17:52 munin indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 17.0�C (10:50 PM IST on February 02, 2010). Conditions: Mist. Humidity: 77%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Rising). 17:53 jdavidb @wunder 20817 17:53 munin jdavidb: The current temperature in Potomac, Maryland is 3.2�C (12:44 PM EST on February 02, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: -1.0�C. Windchill: 3.0�C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1014.8 hPa (Falling). Winter Storm Warning in effect from 4 PM this afternoon to 7 am EST Wednesday... 17:53 schuster owen - so we have decided this print problem is a local issue correct? 17:53 * jdavidb goes "eep!" 17:54 owen schuster: Were you able to confirm or deny the existence of a declaration in your print stylesheet that hides inputs? 17:55 owen /intranet-tmpl/prog/en/css/print.css 17:55 schuster hmmm - what would that declaration look like? sorry still learning. 17:56 schuster .print { display : inline; 17:56 owen input, fieldset.action, .list-actions { display: none; } 17:57 schuster I do not have that line in my code. So when you changed yours to??? it worked? or comment it out? 17:58 owen schuster: I took out the "input, " part of that line and it worked for me. Since you don't even have that I'm not sure what's going on. 17:59 schuster OK - I'll bang a little on this with some of the other stylesheets that are referenced to see if that makes a difference. 18:19 nengard chris_n do i need a perl module for the patron card tool to work? cause i keep getting errorswhen clicking different links 18:19 chris_n nengard: you must install Graphics::Magick 18:20 nengard k that needs to be added to the about page 18:20 nengard installing now 18:21 nengard chris_n that wasn't it :) 18:21 nengard still getting errors when clicking links - off to bug report them for you 18:21 chris_n use the package maintainer's version as there is no cpan version 18:22 chris_n beware that Image::Magick will not work 18:24 chris_n nengard: that link works on two different installations here 18:25 chris_n does the error log say anything else? 18:25 nengard chris_n that was all another language for me .... what command do I type? 18:25 chris_n what kind of install are you running? 18:25 chris_n and do you have command line access? 18:26 nengard yes 18:26 nengard and i'm about to get you the log file as well 18:27 nengard is it possible that the errors are because I don't have templates/layouts/etc set up already 18:27 nengard and if so then we need to disable those links if you don't have things set up yet 18:27 nengard cause the new user will find nothing but errors :) 18:27 chris_n ? 18:27 chris_n nope 18:27 nengard oh oka :( darn - then hang on - getting error log now 18:28 chris_n all links are good regardless 18:28 * chris_n imagines something broke during your upgrade 18:28 chris_n if you are on dev install over git 18:29 nengard updated bug 4096 with error log 18:29 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4096 blocker, P5, ---, cnighswonger@foundations.edu, NEW, Patron Card Tool throwing many errors 18:30 chris_n nengard: I'm looking at bug 4094 18:30 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4094 critical, P5, ---, cnighswonger@foundations.edu, NEW, link to manage images broken 18:31 nengard chris_n there were 2 bugs - one was 500 error the others were scripting errors 18:31 nengard so I split them up 18:31 chris_n nengard: your upgrade did not work 18:31 nengard heh 18:31 nengard lovely 18:31 chris_n and you are missing db tables 18:31 nengard hmm 18:31 nengard k - so will checking out a new branch work? 18:31 chris_n there have been a number of issue with updatedatabase.pl over the past few months 18:31 nengard oh 18:32 nengard yeah - i did fix some of them 18:32 chris_n I would suggest starting over with a clean db 18:32 chris_n and run the webinstaller from scratch 18:32 chris_n then see if there are still errors 18:32 Colin if you use the current updatedatebase you need to delete the first two lines 18:32 nengard :( doing that loses my patron and catalog data - which means starting all over with subscriptions and stuff - which makes documenting hard - 18:33 schuster BACKUP! 18:33 wizzyrea afk 18:34 schuster owen - what about intranet-print.css does that come into play? 18:34 nengard okay - brain is really tired - need to feed it - lunch time 18:34 nengard closed the bugs 18:37 chris_n nengard: you don't have to drop your current db, just create another and adjust koha-conf.xml accordingly 18:38 chris_n test what you like in patron cards and then switch back to your previous db 18:38 chris ok, off to catch my bus, might be a bit late to the meeting, my apologies if so 18:39 schuster LUNCH quick! 18:48 cait hi koha 18:48 brendan heya cait 18:49 cait hi brendan 18:49 cait the meeting is in a few minutes, right? 18:50 brendan yes in about 10 minutes 18:50 brendan if I've done the time conversions correctly ;) 18:51 Colin I'll confirm it from the no-conversions timezone 18:52 brendan thanks Colin 18:52 cait :) 19:00 nengard dog decided to get sick all over the carpet - i'm here but cleaning 19:02 imp :( 19:02 slef Hi all. 19:02 gmcharlt it's time, I believe 19:03 Lee Sorry off to another meeting but I will read transcript 19:03 davi hi 19:03 wizzy_lunch hey peps 19:03 slef wizzy_lunch: YO! 19:04 slef gmcharlt: are you in the chair, or is someone with no LL/PTFS links better? 19:05 gmcharlt I'll chair if nobody else steps up, but would agree that somebody else should do it 19:05 thd slef: what are gmcharlt's LibLime / PTFS links anymore? 19:05 slef OK. Any volunteers to chair? 19:05 slef thd: ex-worker. Purely history, but even so. 19:06 thd slef: I nominate you 19:06 slef thd: swine ;-) Anyone else? (please?) 19:06 gmcharlt thd: none currently, but I did sign an NDA with LL and not personally likely to inspire much cooperation from kados on this matter 19:06 Vickiteal Galen is RM 19:07 Vickiteal I think he is trustworthy. 19:07 gmcharlt Vickiteal: right, but I'm purposely trying to keep my RM role separate from the foundation-forming issue 19:07 gmcharlt but thanks 19:07 * chris_n seconds slef 19:07 thd I would volunteer but I am in great pain and will go see a doctor some time after the meeting 19:07 slef okay so - I call this meeting to order 19:07 slef and we should all start with introductions 19:07 slef MJ Ray, member of software.coop 19:07 chris_n Chris Nighswonger, FBC 19:07 * gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.2 RM, Equinox 19:08 * cait = Katrin Fischer, BSZ 19:08 * wizzyrea = Liz Rea, NEKLS 19:08 owen Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library 19:08 tajoli Zeno Tajoli, CILEA, Italy 19:08 * nengard Nicole C. Engard - Doc Manager & ByWater Solutions 19:08 davi Davi Diaz, worker for software.coop 19:08 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 19:08 Nate Nate Curulla ByWater Solutions 19:08 jwagner Jane Wagner, PTFS 19:08 Jo Joann Ransom, Horowhenua Library Trust, NZ 19:08 rosa Rosalie Blake formerly HLT 19:08 schuster schuster = David Schuster Plano ISD/KUDOS 19:08 brendan Brendan Gallagher, ByWater Solutions 19:08 Jo apologies from George Sue (travelling) 19:08 sekjal-away Ian Walls, NYU Health Sciences Libraries 19:08 magnus Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway 19:08 Vickiteal Vicki Teal Lovely, South Central Library System, Madison, WI, US 19:08 Colin Colin Campbell, PTFS Europe 19:08 Sharon Sharon Moreland, NEKLS 19:09 imp Martin Janitschke, CCC Hannover 19:09 wizzyrea apologies from Lee Philips, Butte Montana (another meeting) 19:09 indradg Indranil Das Gupta, L2C2 Technologies, Kolkata, India 19:09 slef OK - any further attendees, please announce yourself when you wish. 19:10 slef Report on DRAFT Horowhenua Library Trust KOHA Committee RULES. Who wants to report on this? Jo? 19:10 Jo sure. 19:10 slef please go ahead 19:10 Jo The trustees meeting for Januray was postponed - well cancelled really - and I will be submitting the draft rules to the next Trust meeting being held on 25th Feb. 19:11 Jo so any last minute suggestions before I take the draft should be done this week. 19:11 * Ropuch Piotr Wejman, Biblioteka CSNE, Poland 19:11 Jo I do want to clarify that the only task the community requests of HLT is to use best endeavours to secure the domain name and trademarks. 19:12 slef OK, I point out that there are a number of FIXMEs still in those draft rules. 19:13 slef Any other comments, or any questions? 19:13 owen Should we be discussing those FIXMEs now? 19:14 thd I hope that Bob would give attention to the FIXMEs 19:14 wizzyrea http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:organisations:koha_project_organisation:hlt:rules&s[]=committee&s[]=rules 19:14 slef Any opinion? I'm minded to suggest that they should be taken up on the wiki. 19:15 chris_n I agree with slef; most of them are pretty straight forward 19:15 slef If the FIXMEs remain when they are submitted to the Trust, I think it's up to Bob or HLT 19:15 Jo +1 19:15 gmcharlt slef: wiki commentary is fine, but I think that a discussion on the Koha mailing list will ensure that everybody who is interested is aware of it 19:16 Jo the Trust may want to suggest tweaks as well 19:16 gmcharlt or at least a reminder sent to the lists to look at it 19:16 slef If it degenerates into wiki war, then we'll deal with that. 19:16 davi Will that committee be dissolved if we end turning to be an democratic Association 19:16 davi ? 19:16 chris_n I also agree with gmcharlt that a reminder to the list is in order 19:16 slef Yes, shall we take the FIXME topics to the mailing list in a reminder? 19:16 Jo Dai: That is my understanding 19:16 wizzyrea +! 19:16 wizzyrea +1 even 19:16 slef Who will post it? 19:17 * imp likes slef idea :) 19:17 davi +as a reminder to mailing list 19:17 chris_n slef: maybe not so much the fixmes, but a reminder to look 19:17 Jo I will 19:17 slef Thank you. 19:17 davi Will that committee be dissolved if we end turning to be an democratic Association? 19:17 slef OK, any further comments or questions? Particularly from anyone who hasn't opined yet. 19:17 slef davi: "<Jo> Dai: That is my understanding" 19:18 davi ack 19:18 slef I think that was an ytpo. 19:18 hdl_laptop hi 19:18 Jo yep- my fingers are dyslexic :) 19:18 thd davi: That is actually covered in some language in the draft 19:18 slef ok, moving on 19:18 slef 3. Report on status of negotiations over assignment of trademarks and domains. 19:18 * hdl_laptop Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre SARL 19:18 slef Is this Jo again? 19:18 Jo yep :) 19:19 slef sorry - please fill us in 19:19 chris back 19:19 Jo Biblibre and HLT have signed and submitted the documentation for tranferfring the EU trademark over to HLT. 19:19 * wizzyrea cheers 19:19 slef note: trademark application 19:19 brendan biblibre++ 19:20 Jo unasked and at no cost :) 19:20 chris_n Biblibre++ 19:20 slef I have a conflict of interest, but that is only a point of information. 19:20 Jo actually they carfrying all the costs 19:20 thd biblibre++ 19:20 sekjal biblibre++, indeed 19:20 chris_n slef: surely you support this move 19:20 wizzyrea biblibre++ 19:20 davi biblibre++ 19:20 slef chris_n: it depends. Let us discuss that another time. 19:20 chris_n right 19:20 magnus biblibre++ 19:21 nengard biblibre++ 19:21 slef nengard: you cannot modify your own karma! 19:21 Jo HLT has also written to John Yokley twice reminding him about the community wishes for the koha domain and trademark and that we look forwarding to working with him 19:21 nengard ?? 19:21 Jo Maybe someone from PTFS might like to comment? 19:21 slef nengard: ;-) 19:21 thd chris_n: slef should speak for himself but his conflict is not really opposed as far as I know. 19:21 cait biblibre++ 19:21 jwagner To forestall this and other questions, I'll repeat what I said the day the sale was announced. 19:21 chris Jo: i dont think that is fair to anyone from PTFS present, they dont have any authority to speak 19:22 Jo sure... it was a suggestion 19:22 chris all doing so woudl do, would be to get themselves in trouble 19:22 Jo fair enough. 19:22 jwagner (1) No decisions can be made until the sale is final (which it isn't yet). (2) These decisions will be made above our pay grade. (3) We are not authorized to speak for the company, and are still under an NDA. 19:22 Jo John basically said said wait and see 19:22 schuster The sale is not final yet between LibLime and PTFS - probably another 2 weeks. 19:22 owen Thanks jwagner 19:23 Jo Cheers Jane. 19:23 hdl_laptop thanks jwagner 19:23 slef I bow to others' knowledge of PTFS structure, but I'm always saddened by non-autonomous workers. 19:23 schuster boy she had that statement typed up and ready to go! 19:23 thd I attended the PTFS press conference at ALA Midwinter 19:23 wizzyrea jwagner++ for clearing that up :) 19:23 slef Do we expect that anything will happen before the sale completes? 19:23 Jo so the upshot is that we need to wait for the Americans to ghet their act together :) 19:23 chris i certainly don't 19:24 gmcharlt agreed 19:24 chris_n +1 19:24 indradg ok 19:24 thd I could report from the public statements at the press conference that PTFS has not decided many questions 19:24 wizzyrea NEKLS has not had any particular inkling of what they plan to do with the domain names/trademarks 19:24 * chris_n imagines its hard to make decisions before a sale is final at any rate 19:24 Jo and that is certainly the message I have been given: no decisions made 19:24 wizzyrea I know that we have expressed to the leadership our desire that the assets be returned to the community 19:25 slef Is there any more to report on the status of negotiations or shall we move on? 19:25 Jo +1 19:25 Jo I think that it is vcritical for LL / PTFS to express their opinions to PTFS 19:25 Jo I have nothing more 19:26 slef 4. Possible suggestions on unresolved negotiations. 19:26 slef I guess we're now opening it to the floor. What do we do? Keep waiting how long after the sale completes, do you think? 19:26 thd Jo did you mean customers? 19:26 Jo yep 19:26 * chris_n moves that we wait for the transaction to complete/fail 19:26 Jo sorry - ll / ptfs clients 19:27 slef exyliadics of het wordl, untie! 19:27 owen NPL has voted with our feet :) 19:27 Jo The lack of access to the domain name is a real bummer 19:27 Jo NPL ++++ 19:27 chris_n owen++ 19:27 chris_n NPL++ 19:27 magnus owen++ 19:27 slef chris_n++ 19:27 cait NPL++ 19:27 indradg N 19:27 indradg NPL++ 19:27 nengard NPL++ 19:27 owen We were lucky to be in a position to do so. I know others might if their situation was different. 19:28 hdl_laptop NPL++ 19:28 wizzyrea NPL++ 19:28 chris lee from montana voted with her feet also 19:28 nengard chris - she did?? 19:28 slef No-one has anything to add about unresolved negotiations? 19:28 Jo I think HLT should contact PTFS again in a month - no point any sooner, 19:28 wizzyrea well, she's voting with her payout 19:28 chris yeah 19:28 nengard that i knew 19:29 wizzyrea i.e. she hasn't paid for the next 10 months of support 19:29 chris shes going it alone rather than stick with the crud 19:29 slef OK, so "Next issues if negotiations have concluded." - they haven't. 19:29 Jo I suspect its going to be a long drawn out affair 19:29 slef So let's wrap up so you can all gossip about who is hosting who in a mo: 19:29 slef 6. Agree time of next meeting. 19:29 Jo 1 moment 19:30 slef ok, go on 19:30 Jo what can we do / should we do in the interim. 19:30 Jo this could easily go on for 3 months 19:30 Jo regarding access to thedomain 19:30 Jo listing for paid support etc 19:30 slef and koha.org remains pickled until then 19:30 chris yeah and the website sitll points to 3.0.4 .. and we cant list zeno etc 19:30 Jo that seems to be a poblem for the community, or am i overstating this? 19:30 nengard It's a big problem 19:30 owen Definitely a problem. 19:30 nengard I have the manual to publish 19:30 gmcharlt Jo: it's an ongoing problem, yes 19:30 slef some of it we can update (wiki), some of it we have limited updates (bugs) and others are stuck 19:30 hdl_laptop it surely is 19:30 nengard and the newsletter 19:31 Jo so do we have options to consider? 19:31 thd from the press conference: PTFS will not change LLEK while evaluating it for 3 months. Does not say anything about trademarks and domains but calls for patience. 19:31 chris i dont care 2 cents about LLEK 19:31 nengard i would say we could register a new domain or use someone elses' for a while - but that's silly because all links go to koha.org 19:31 chris if ppl wanna let themselves be locked in, so be it 19:31 slef Difficult, not silly. 19:31 wizzyrea I think there needs to be at least a secondary hosting spot. The further out of date koha.org gets the more likely people are to look for more up to date info 19:31 Jo we can get the word out between us 19:31 chris all i want is the website back in community control 19:31 chris so its not full of lies 19:32 nengard slef - silly if we do eventaully get koha.org back 19:32 Jo agreed 19:32 slef chris: I think thd is taking that as a signal that PTFS won't change things. 19:32 schuster Jo - when you make your next contact you may want to point out those specifics to John Y and Patrick J - so they are aware how heavily the community used to rely on LibLime - they may not be aware that they are holding us up. 19:32 slef nengard: not really. We just Redirect permanent one site to the other. 19:32 thd no slef 19:32 wizzyrea I would say that PTFS is asking LL clients lots of questions 19:32 slef chris: well, not in the immediate. 19:32 nengard so then chris don't you have a koha domain - can we start using that? 19:32 nengard and then set up redirects if things change? 19:32 chris i dont 19:32 thd I am stating that we should give PTFS a chanc to consider their position 19:32 wizzyrea thd++ 19:33 Jo I would suggest that we can't wait another 3 months 19:33 slef nengard: then we keep all the search engine juice. 19:33 wizzyrea they do have an awful lot to consider. 19:33 chris they could at least let someone edit the website while they consider 19:33 thd At this point, the deal is not yet even closed. 19:33 chris i hardly think that is asking much 19:33 chris for crying out loud 19:33 magnus but LL aren't going to give up anything now, are they? and PTFS isn't really in a position to hand anything over as long as the deal is not finalized, i would think? 19:33 Jo so is that an option: we ask PTFS for editing rights to the wiki 19:33 Ropuch chris++ 19:33 wizzyrea when it is legally theirs then we can ask 19:33 nengard chris++ 19:33 slef Jo: we have the wiki. We don't have www. 19:33 Jo ok. 19:33 sekjal just did a quick Google search on 'koha'. Second relevant hit is Wikipedia 19:33 Vickiteal PTFS does not own LL yet. They cannot give you access to the web site. 19:33 slef well, most of the wiki 19:34 sekjal could we make it a point to update Wikipedia to the most correct info? 19:34 hdl_laptop Jo++ 19:34 wizzyrea 2nd vickiteal 19:34 imp how about a (second) domain, which can be used later for user based stuff (manual, ...) and maybe use it for everything / as second domain for specific stuff if we get the othre one back? 19:34 Jo well lets ask LL and PTFS jointly 19:34 tajoli As CILEA we have www.koha.it 19:34 chris Vickiteal: they surely have some influence, im sure they could say, joshua stop being a dick 19:34 chris i mean cmon 19:34 chris_n Jo++ 19:34 imp .oO(whois koha-community.org -> not found) 19:34 Jo my thoughts exactly 19:34 chris this is freaking retarded 19:34 slef Vickiteal: you may know US law more than most of us. If both PTFS and LL agree, can't we get access? 19:34 slef imp: too long, contains a - 19:34 Jo it would forestall a rename / rebrand / relaunch 19:34 gmcharlt slef: it would boil down to LL alone agreeing, until they are bought 19:35 nengard slef it's not a law thing - it's a who owns the server thing 19:35 Vickiteal This conversation is rapidly degrading. 19:35 chris ppl are installing old versions of software because thats what the website points to 19:35 Jo I'd say they would probably accept it as an interim soluition 19:35 chris my patience with this situation is rapidly wearing thin 19:35 thd slef: you can get access if access is granted or control is transferred 19:35 nengard Vickiteal - i think that we're asking for something necessary - not degrading the conversation 19:35 nengard we're problem solving 19:35 chris seriously, the US is causing a big mess for the rest of the world, and its getting old 19:35 nengard trying ot come up with a way to fix things 19:35 Jo yep. 19:35 Vickiteal All I'm saying is PTFS has no control over the web site and they have other things they are worrying about now. 19:36 nengard chris - HEY! Don't blame the whole country!! 19:36 Jo yep. and the koha community is bigger than PTFS 19:36 nengard Okay - so I think we need to set up a home for an up to date koha site 19:36 slef So we've asked LL for access before and not got it. 19:36 chris_n PTFS *could* exercise a deal of force on LL to give us access, however 19:36 Jo and we need a way to function effectively 19:36 slef Who has what nice koha domain? 19:36 Jo what do we lose by asking ? 19:36 thd We should at least wait until PTFS has effective control when the deal is completed 19:36 slef PTFS has koha-ils.org still 19:36 wizzyrea more disappointment 19:36 nengard Jo nothing - i think we should ask - but we need an alternative option as well 19:36 Jo wizzyrea: we can handle that 19:37 Jo absolutely agree 19:37 thd The announcement had been that the deal would be completed by the beginning of February 19:37 hdl_laptop koha-fr.org is for kohala 19:37 slef Anyone here got a nice koha domain already, or shall we go searching/buying? 19:37 wizzyrea we just got word that it will be an extra 2 weeks 19:37 wizzyrea last friday 19:37 chris thomas brevik has openkoha 19:37 slef koha-fr.org is good but probably should remain in French? 19:37 Jo i like openkoha 19:37 magnus openkoha.org is on friendly hands 19:37 imp chris: sounds fine 19:37 thd I expect that we would not have long to wait for the deal to be completed 19:37 slef I hate openkoha. 19:37 cait i have koha-support.de - not used 19:38 chris yeah im not super partial to it either 19:38 Jo its an interim name 19:38 nengard freekoha is avail 19:38 slef koha.something or kohaSomething.gtld would be better 19:38 nengard no one owns it 19:38 gmcharlt we could keep it limited for now, perhaps do koha-download.org to substitute for download.koha.org 19:38 Jo i like freekoha too 19:38 Jo (it sounds like a call to arms thouggh ... a Braveheart thing) 19:38 chris_n koha.net? 19:38 * wizzyrea roars with bestial vigor 19:38 indradg Jo++ 19:38 slef chris_n: is that available? 19:38 chris heh 19:39 slef blimey... I must have typod it earlier 19:39 owen koha-community.com seems to be available 19:39 wizzyrea ooh, I like that 19:39 wizzyrea owen 19:39 slef owen: kohaworld.com too 19:39 imp owen: why .com and not .org? 19:39 tajoli koha.net is used 19:39 nengard chris_n koha.net is not avail 19:39 nengard kohails.net is 19:39 owen koha-community.org too imp 19:39 wizzyrea ooh, nengard also with a good one 19:40 wizzyrea i do like koha-community.org 19:40 chris yeah .org would be my preference 19:40 nengard me too 19:40 gmcharlt there a lot of potential domains containing the word koha that we could - I suggest we go back to the bigger question 19:40 Jo +1 19:40 wizzyrea koha-community.org++ 19:40 slef gmcharlt: which is? 19:40 gmcharlt do we set up a whole alternative website now? 19:40 Sharon koha-community.org+ 19:40 imp owen: i know it's free ;) 19:40 thd gmcharlt++ 19:40 gmcharlt just pieces of it (e.g., download) 19:40 nengard gmcharlt i htink that's what we have to do - an entire site - there is way too much out of date and unreliable info 19:40 gmcharlt or wait until we know the final disposition of the LL/PTFS sale 19:40 wizzyrea I think you probably want the download, and the pay for support 19:40 nengard in my opinion 19:40 Sharon I think be hopeful and work on the assumption that koha.org will come back to us eventually 19:40 wizzyrea the things we can't fiddle with 19:41 slef I think we should keep it simple for now: download, links, manual. What do others think? 19:41 magnus slef++ 19:41 indradg slef: ++ 19:41 nengard okay - tell me if i'm going off track - but if we don't do the whole site how the heck do we let people who know nohtng about koha koha that there is a diff site for downloads and support? 19:41 Ropuch slef++ 19:41 cait will we keep the koha.org website when we get the domain or will we need a new site anyway? 19:41 thd slef: I understand that we could easily reproduce the old pre-plone website 19:42 schuster slef++ 19:42 collum slef++ 19:42 chris_n slef++ 19:42 gmcharlt nengard: I think a homepage to explain what's going on would suffice 19:42 slef nengard: we market it. koha.org is not actively marketed at the moment, as far as I understand it. 19:42 hdl_laptop cait++ 19:42 sekjal I'm inclined to be patient while PTFS figures things out. We of course request whatever action is possible, but moving to rebrand is a lot of work to undertake if we're just going to get koha.org back again later. 19:42 gmcharlt we can rely on marketing to educate Google 19:42 slef nengard: for example, we all link it from our library mailing list sigs, which will appear on lists.koha.org 19:42 wizzyrea not to mention that a homepage that explains what's going on and what has happened could be an effective leverage tool :P 19:42 slef we put link it from the listinfo pages 19:42 chris_n sekjal: this would not be rebranding atm 19:42 slef and so on 19:42 Jo we don't have to rebrand as such, buyt we will need a whole new website regardless 19:42 nengard okay 19:43 gmcharlt I favor slef's suggestion of a limited-purpose website for now 19:43 Jo so why not get the new site up and ruinning on whatever new domian we settle on 19:43 chris ditto 19:43 chris limited purpose for now 19:43 chris_n we install a redirect when/if we get the main domain back 19:43 Jo then shift it over to the koha.org if / when we get the domain back 19:43 wizzyrea limited-purpose_website++ 19:43 davi koha-lib.org 19:43 sekjal alright, sounds good 19:43 slef Thinking back, one problem with koha-community.org is will people look there for downloads and vendors, or only for support/chat? 19:43 cait Jo++ 19:43 davi koha-community.org also good 19:44 thd I worry that actually making a new website live might be interpreted as a message of aggression by PTFS when they have not had an opportunity to respond from a position of control 19:44 slef kohaHQ.org? 19:44 chris slef: i just want a place that has accurate information about the latest version 19:44 Jo i think we need to show that the koha community is a 'together' thing who knows what its doing. 19:44 davi kohaLib.org 19:44 imp davi: koha-lib.org belongs to ptfs 19:44 davi :P 19:44 chris_n thd: he who hesitates is lost.... 19:44 Sharon I agree with Jo 19:44 Jo having info spread over a number of sites isn't especially organised or 'together' 19:44 davi imp: When they got it? ! 19:44 davi I proposed it some week ago? 19:44 davi here 19:44 Jo we don't ned to be held to ransom here by PTFS. 19:45 imp davi: Created On:31-Mar-2009 03:07:26 UTC 19:45 davi ah 19:45 thd chris_n: I would not hesitate except for the prospect of a change of control 19:45 Jo lets get on with a new site, host oit on a new domian and shift it back when'if we can 19:45 wizzyrea davi: there was a big kerfuffle about it 19:45 slef thd: I think as long as we're clear that we're putting a minimal site live because there is stale info on a site we have no access too, they shouldn't see it as agression. 19:45 Vickiteal PTFS is not holding you ransom. It is LL. 19:45 slef thd: if they do, then that would speak volumes. 19:45 Jo thank you Vicki 19:45 imp jo++ 19:45 chris_n thd: a clear explanation on the main page should do to defuse concern 19:46 chris if PTFS said, as soon as the deal is concluded, you can edit the website again 19:46 wizzyrea I know of at least 4 customers of LL that have told PTFS that they want the assets transferred back to the community 19:46 chris problem solved 19:46 thd slef: thank you, I like that answer 19:46 Jo and that it is ideally a temporary measure until we get koha.org back 19:46 chris as long as they are silent, they are in effect dangling a sword over us 19:46 imp i would try to avoid using domainnames just differing by a "-" in the middle 19:46 thd chris_n++ 19:46 gmcharlt I move that however the substitue domain is acquired, that it be held or transferred to HLT 19:46 davi Is KohaLib.org taken? 19:46 wizzyrea +! 19:46 thd chris: I agree 19:46 Sharon as long as we're transparent with the intent of the new site, I see no problem 19:46 wizzyrea +1 19:46 slef gmcharlt++ 19:47 chris_n gmcharlt++ 19:47 tajoli +1 19:47 owen +1 19:47 slef davi: yes, PTFS. Use whois to check them. 19:47 imp +1 19:47 thd gmcharlt: that is essential 19:47 davi :P 19:47 chris_n would HLT handle the setup of the new site? 19:47 gmcharlt Jo: will HLT accept it - particular given that this is something that I think that we'll want to set up quickly? 19:47 Jo can someone please clarify exactly what is it we are all in agreement to :) 19:47 chris so if we could get PTFS to say "After the deal is concluded we will restore access rights to the community to the www.koha.org website" 19:47 chris then none of this has to happen 19:48 wizzyrea chris: i'm not sure that it has been decided by them :( 19:48 Jo gmcharlt: yes. HLT will absolutely accept it. Committed to supporting the kopha community 19:48 slef Jo: "the substitue domain be held by or transferred to HLT" 19:48 chris but i dont think that without a promise, we can delay even longer 19:48 owen If I were PTFS I'd rather transfer ownership of the domain than deal with the practicalities of granting outsiders access. 19:48 davi What about get lib-koha.org and or libKoha.org ? 19:48 wizzyrea chris: then we are doing the right thing getting a new domain 19:48 davi They are free 19:48 wizzyrea and when we know for sure, we can work out the logistics of it then 19:48 thd As Vickiteal stated, PTFS is concentrating attention on other issues 19:49 slef So, this is my understanding: a limited website with a clear explanation of why it exists, on a domain with HLT as the registrant and admin contact? 19:49 Sharon +1 19:49 Jo my preference is a near full subsitute website 19:49 gmcharlt chris: is there a suitable maori expression for "Koha For All" or the like that might make a suitable domain? 19:49 owen Is HLT in a position right now to register a domain? 19:49 Jo yes. 19:49 davi I like libKoha,org It is free yet 19:49 Jo have my creditcard in hand :) 19:49 cait Jo++ 19:49 slef owen: we can register it for them if not. These are details. 19:50 Jo can we vote on whether a partial or full website please 19:50 slef kohaLMS.org is also free, but maybe that is UKish 19:50 slef ok, votes! partial or full? 19:50 Jo and also settle on a domian name 19:50 slef partial IMO 19:50 davi full 19:50 nengard i'm had US libraries call it a LMS 19:50 Jo full 19:50 gmcharlt LMS works for USians too, although it's not as common 19:50 nengard full 19:50 Sharon I think partial leaves the door open to getting koha.org back 19:50 sekjal partial 19:50 gmcharlt partial 19:51 owen partial 19:51 chris_n partial 19:51 imp partial 19:51 hdl_laptop partial 19:51 collum partial 19:51 wizzyrea partial 19:51 schuster partial 19:51 magnus partial 19:51 brendan partial - downloads and community information 19:51 Jo lol 19:51 Jo ok - i'll lie down now an dbe quiet 19:51 slef The partials have it? 19:51 thd partial for now 19:51 cait full 19:51 wizzyrea no no we like it when you talk Jo 19:51 wizzyrea ;) 19:51 davi libKoha.org would add confusion to lib-koha for PTFS, and so would be good for us 19:51 slef davi: Machiavelli. 19:51 rosa full 19:51 davi :) 19:51 Jo davi: i likke it 19:52 slef another silly idea: kohaC4.org 19:52 chris heh 19:52 Sharon communitykoha.org 19:52 chris_n lol 19:52 thd whatever domain we choose we could have other good choices point at the one being used 19:52 hdl_laptop davi: it is a tough idea 19:52 slef anyway, I'm sure that one sucks... do we have a clear domain leader yet? 19:52 davi Jo; Do you want I buy libKoha.org now? Else who would buy it? 19:52 wizzyrea communitykoha.org is available 19:52 davi hdl_laptop, Do you want I buy libKoha.org now? Else who would buy it? 19:53 Jo lets settle on the name now. 19:53 gmcharlt actually, I would prefer that it not be communitykoha.org - there is one one Koha 19:53 owen I prefer koha-community.org because I think "community koha" is a derogatory term invented by LibLime 19:53 Jo then i;ll buy to save transferring it 19:53 gmcharlt *only one Koha 19:53 magnus i think koha-community.org or some varient thereof would emphasise nicely the fact that this is the community taking control 19:53 Jo can someone please list the serious contenders for a domain name 19:53 slef yes, please don't all go buying domain names for HLT 19:53 Ropuch ;> 19:53 gmcharlt Jo: koha-community.org is one 19:53 * owen puts away his wallet 19:53 gmcharlt kohalms.org 19:53 thd wizzyrea: think about length and the difficulty of typing accurately also 19:54 davi magnus, We can add a subtible at libkoha.org with "Community" word 19:54 wizzyrea well you can't beat koha.org for that 19:54 gmcharlt libkoha.org 19:54 Sharon onetruekoha.org 19:54 rosa koha-community.org because it starts with koha (important) and is straightforward 19:54 slef koha-community.org, libkoha.org, kohalms.org and what else? We're keen on being in .org I think. 19:54 magnus one koha to rule them all! 19:54 davi libKoha.org 19:54 Jo (sit down Magnus) 19:54 imp magnus: :D 19:54 thd wizzyrea: :) 19:54 wizzyrea thd :D 19:54 slef davi: already wrote that... 19:54 slef 3 options... any other good ones? 19:54 schuster The teacher in Jo comes out I see... 19:55 tirabo kohasite.org is available 19:55 cait magnus: lol 19:55 gmcharlt I move that we vote between koha-community.org, libkoha.org, and kohalms.org 19:55 chris_n seconded 19:55 Ropuch gmcharlt++ 19:55 Jo +1 19:55 davi gmcharlt++ 19:55 wizzyrea +1 19:55 imp +1 19:55 Sharon kohalms sounds like 'alms for the poor' 19:55 nengard kohalms.org 19:55 cait +1 19:55 hdl_laptop kohaworld.org 19:55 Jo I hate kohalms 19:55 thd I think that we should consider one issue first 19:55 slef ok, votes! koha-community.org, libkoha.org or kohalms.org 19:55 cait koha-community.org 19:56 gmcharlt koha-community.org 19:56 * owen votes koha-community.org 19:56 chris_n koha-community.org 19:56 imp koha-community.org 19:56 Jo koha-community.org 19:56 slef libkoha.org 19:56 chris +1 19:56 Sharon koha-community.org 19:56 wizzyrea koha-community.org 19:56 hdl_laptop koha-community.org 19:56 rosa koha-community.org 19:56 collum koha-community.org 19:56 chris to koha-community.org 19:56 Ropuch koha-community.org 19:56 schuster koha-community.org 19:56 brendan koha-community.org 19:56 sekjal koha-community.org 19:56 wizzyrea thd: you had an issue? 19:56 magnus koha-community.org 19:56 davi koha-community.org looks better 19:56 slef ok, I'm a minority of 1. 19:56 slef go for it 19:56 thd Remember that a .org domain could always be at risk of being captured by the US trademark holder 19:57 Jo http://www.domainz.net.nz/purchasewizard/SearchPage.aspx?DomainNameSearch=koha-community.org 19:57 Jo koha-community.org is not available 19:57 slef heh 19:57 thd I do not think that is a present concern but we should not forget about that risk long term 19:57 davi Who have it? 19:57 slef ; whois koha-community.org 19:57 slef NOT FOUND 19:57 slef 19:57 imp slef: right, same here 19:57 Jo i can grab .net 19:57 chris_n http://www.whois.net/whois/koha-community.org 19:57 owen It says available to me 19:57 gmcharlt ok, if somebody just bought it for the benefit of HLT, please speak up NOW 19:57 chris_n says it is 19:58 thd davi: LibLime hold the US trademark at the moment 19:58 Jo Owen: can you buy it please 19:58 Jo for us 19:58 davi thd, noted, but it would not clash with libKoha.org 19:58 schuster I'm actually shocked that the IRC and discussion lists are still running with Katipo personally... 19:58 chris_n owen: doing it? 19:59 owen Yes 19:59 chris schuster: why? 19:59 wizzyrea owen++ 19:59 Jo trust until people prove to be untrustworthy 19:59 chris jo: freeparking.co.nz has it available 19:59 chris they are better than domainz too 19:59 chris so you can grab it there 19:59 * owen stops clicking 19:59 thd davi: *koha*.org would always be at risk as long as the community does not hold the trademark . 19:59 slef owen: got it? 20:00 wizzyrea Ack 20:00 owen Jo, are you looking now at freeparking.co.nz? 20:00 Jo ok - I have it 20:00 chris_n have what? 20:00 schuster chris - that's owned by LL too technically isn't it? 20:00 davi thd, ah, I see 20:00 slef thd: as long as we do not sell off the back of it, it is honest use 20:00 chris schuster: what???? 20:00 chris hell no 20:00 slef thd: sorry, descriptive use. 20:01 chris schuster: pretty much dont believe anything you read on the LL website 20:01 * richard tunes in 20:01 chris ll never bought katipo 20:01 slef thd: are there particular rules for .org which put it at risk? 20:01 thd slef: yes but not as safe as *koha*.fr 20:01 richard schuster, liblime have never bought or have any financial interest in katipo 20:02 slef ok, so we have a domain - who wants to organise the development? 20:02 davi thd, As I understand tradermarsk, prefix *koha is allowed, but not koha* postfix 20:02 wizzyrea and who wants to hoste it 20:02 davi so libKoha would be ok 20:02 nengard i have room on my server for another site 20:02 * chris_n nominates owen 20:03 brendan we can host it too 20:03 davi For example, we have to ask to user GNU Herds, but not to use Herds of GNUs 20:03 Jo all done. 20:03 thd can we not just easily use or adapt the old pre-Plone website? 20:03 slef we have one offer of hosting 20:03 chris_n Jo++ 20:03 Jo koha-community.org 20:03 owen Jo++ 20:03 chris the old site still exists in kea 20:03 magnus Jo++ 20:03 slef thd: personally, it would be nice not to have to use Kea, but it is up to those doing the work IMO. 20:03 hdl_laptop Jo++ 20:03 nengard my problem is that the old site is a static html site 20:03 nengard why not throw wordpress on a server and put up the pages necessary then we can easily give everyone rights to edit things 20:03 thd slef: I was merely referring to expedience 20:03 slef (is Kea FOSS?) 20:03 wizzyrea NEKLS could host it 20:04 chris no 20:04 chris_n brendan++ 20:04 davi Jo, thd, I think koha-community.org would clash with trademark, not not libKoha,org What do you think thd? 20:04 chris i wasnt suggesting we use kea, we can just trigger it somewhere and have a full site in 15 mins 20:04 Jo should hlt host it 20:04 nengard hlt makes sense to me 20:04 wizzyrea if you have the server space and can, HLT would be best imo 20:04 Jo impartial / non-inflammatory etc 20:04 chris_n Jo: makes sense 20:04 gmcharlt agreed 20:04 slef ok, so we have two suggestions so far... I'll throw in my own suggestion of hosting with software.coop and/or using django-blocks. 20:04 Jo Chris: is there a cost we will have to carry? 20:05 thd davi: koha anything or anything koha could be an issue but I do not think that it is a real problem at the present time 20:05 gmcharlt main thing that anybody offering to host shoudl keep in mind that with release of 3.2 alpha and 3.0.6, there will be a fair amount of bulk download traffic 20:05 Jo I'm open to software.coop 20:05 wizzyrea bandwidth is always a cost 20:05 slef five offers of hosting, three offers of platforms 20:05 davi ack thd. I thought only postfix would be a problem, not prefix 20:05 gmcharlt so in particular, if anybody is willing to participate by running mirrors of the downlaods, that might be great 20:05 imp erm, afaik, it's ok to use a trademark, as long as you are using it /right/. so you can use cola-critic, if write critical stuff on it, but not just for "fun" 20:05 wizzyrea We are in EC2 with our server 20:05 Jo we happy to but can't carry a financial burden 20:05 khall why not use sourceforge for hosting downloads? 20:05 cait cant we make something like differnt mirrors for download? 20:05 chris_n gmcharlt took my words :-) 20:06 thd davi: The bad publicity of trying to stop the community would be a strong caution against any unfortunate action 20:06 gmcharlt (also, mirrors in east asia, europe, and north america would be desirable anyway) 20:06 Jo mirrors +1 20:06 slef can we organise a bittorrent to make downloads lighter on the hoster? 20:06 * wizzyrea volunteers to mirror 20:06 hdl_laptop we could host mirrors here at biblibre 20:06 * braedon chimes in that he has some bandwidth going to waste if it is needed 20:06 davi ack thd 20:06 chris_n why don't we appoint someone to head this up? 20:06 davi bittorrent++ 20:06 slef yes, who wants to organise... I saw someone try to put owen's hand up 20:06 chris_n then offers could be vetted by that person 20:07 owen Sorry folks, it's not a good time for me to take that job :( 20:07 Jo I quite like the idea of having a temp site up in half an hour using kea 20:07 slef ok, anyone else? 20:07 Jo and then we replace it over the next few weeks 20:08 magnus Jo++ 20:08 thd Jo++ 20:08 davi After having it, announce it 20:08 Jo not Chris or me (we are trying to go live with 3.) 20:08 Ropuch Jp++ 20:08 Ropuch Jo__ 20:08 Ropuch damn ;> 20:08 chris yeah i have about a trillion things to do 20:08 Jo does anyone want to volunteer to organise this 20:08 slef OK, I volunteer, but davi and mjkaye may flame me for that because I also have 1001 tasks backed up. 20:08 wizzyrea <- is willing 20:08 slef wizzyrea! 20:08 * wizzyrea ducks 20:08 chris_n wizzyrea++ 20:08 * slef withdraws, quickly 20:08 owen wizzyrea++ 20:08 gmcharlt I am willing to help organize as well, but my priority is going to be getting the alpha out 20:08 Jo wizzyrea+ 20:08 thd wizzyrea++ 20:09 chris_n wordpress wizard 20:09 Jo (slef: that was a hasty retreat :) 20:09 hdl_laptop wizzyrea++ 20:09 gmcharlt wizzyrea++ 20:09 sekjal wizzyrea++ 20:09 Ropuch wizzyrea++ 20:09 chris wordpress would work fine, with the widgets and stuff 20:09 magnus wizzyrea++ 20:09 imp wizzyrea++ 20:09 owen slef++ # for offering too 20:09 schuster wizzyrea++ - gmcharlt - aplpha, beta, final! 20:09 schuster wordpress++ 20:09 wizzyrea I can do that super fast, and you all are wizards so if I need help you know who I'll be asking 20:09 schuster (a Texas favorite...:)) 20:09 Jo so we have a domain, a partial wwebsite going up, what else? 20:09 slef wizzyrea: if you're using something I know (like wordpress, django, static html, or whatever), I'll do my damnedest to help, now I've opened my mouth. 20:10 wizzyrea I can do wp super ez 20:10 Jo slef +1 20:10 cait wizzyrea++ 20:10 slef but everyone who wants to help, contact wizzyrea! 20:10 gmcharlt I think the main thing left is to organize download mirrors 20:10 wizzyrea yes 20:10 cait wordpress++ 20:10 gmcharlt wordpress++ 20:10 Jo a mirror on each continent would be good 20:10 nengard wordpress++ 20:10 chris_n maybe those willing to host mirrors should contact wizzyrea directly? 20:10 richard wordpress would be nice and quick 20:10 gmcharlt I think anybody who wants to run a mirror and who can do so should be allowed to 20:11 slef ok, mirrorers? I think software.coop has some problem with mirroring just now, but biblibre is in the same country as us. 20:11 slef Are releases GPG-signed? And there should be an md5sum on the www download page. 20:11 cait I have to ask about it 20:11 nengard wizzyrea - may I recommend wordpressmu ... then we can have a blog for the newsletter and one for koha news and one for ... etc etc etc 20:11 gmcharlt slef: releases are supposed to be signed with checksums 20:11 hdl_laptop releases are gpg signed 20:11 imp some stats around, how many downloads / traffic it causes per month? 20:11 hdl_laptop and there are md5summ also 20:11 slef gmcharlt: ok, thanks. Git does this stuff for me automatically now. 20:12 slef imp: we don't have access to downloads.koha.org stats to know, I think. 20:12 wizzyrea nengard: that would take longer but I'm open to that 20:12 slef wizzyrea: I have a wordpress mu git tree which I could upload to the host 20:12 wizzyrea longer = 15 minutes :P 20:13 wizzyrea instead of 5 20:13 wizzyrea I"m already to the point of configuring the DNS so... 20:13 nengard hehe 20:13 nengard awesome 20:13 magnus could we encourage people to get the alpha from git, to ease load on download servers? 20:13 wizzyrea whoever bought it and wants to put in the server info PM me plz 20:13 slef can hdl_laptop tell us any download stats for the release hosted on koha-fr.org? 20:14 wizzyrea brb, afk one min 20:14 nengard with MU we can easily create sites with subdomains - like docs.koha-community.org etc 20:14 nengard so exciting 20:14 wizzyrea yes, but this is temp, nengard, remember ;) 20:14 hdl_laptop slef: would not be accurate since download.koha.org competed with that 20:14 thd please also ensure that domain control is transferred to HLT 20:14 slef magnus: on a related note, can gmcharlt or hdl_laptop run git pack on git.koha.org to make a tarball there? 20:14 gmcharlt slef: alas, no 20:14 nengard wizzyrea - temp yes - but i see it as us moving it to koha.org when we have that domain 20:14 slef hdl_laptop: no, but better than no info. 20:15 chris_n thd: Jo purchased it 20:15 gmcharlt at least, not on git.koha.org directly - we no longer have shell access 20:15 Jo I did. 20:15 thd I thought so but was not certain it happened that way 20:16 slef ok, so we'll let everyone mirror, link them all and put verification instructions on the download page? 20:16 davi yep 20:16 wizzyrea nengard fair enough 20:16 davi checked via GPGsign 20:16 chris sounds good to me 20:16 imp slef: can we make a continent based round robin? 20:16 davi bittorrent advised too 20:17 slef imp: let's walk for the alpha/beta, run for the release? 20:17 Sharon who is best at wordsmithing? The tone of the explanation for the creation of this site will be very important, so as not to piss off anyone 20:17 davi or we want to track downloads? 20:17 * wizzyrea is going to use wpmu, but it will take a few minutes longer, and require some DNS configuration 20:17 davi Sharon++ 20:17 Jo wizzyrea: can you flick me an email please 20:18 imp slef: ok, technical stuff later :) 20:18 wizzyrea jo: yep, sec 20:18 Jo Rosalie 20:18 Vickiteal Not that it matters, but just for the record I'm starting to warm up to this idea. 20:18 Jo Rosalie is good at wordsmithing 20:18 Jo yippi! 20:19 slef OK, is there anything else left to decide right now? 20:19 Jo how about Rosalie (who has probably sloped off into the garden) 20:19 schuster Vickiteal is good with political goo and saying the right thing. 20:19 thd Rosalie++ 20:19 slef (except the date of next meeting?) 20:19 Vickiteal Hah, hah schuster. 20:19 chris_n March 2? 20:19 rosa yes I'm happy to help with stuff I know about 20:20 collum Oh. Is this still the meeting. - Garry Collum, Kenton County Public Library :) 20:20 slef 6. Agree time of next meeting. 20:20 gmcharlt +1 to March 2 20:20 nengard +! 20:20 davi +1 20:20 slef We have Tue 2 March suggested. 19:00? 20:20 chris_n +1 20:20 davi 19:00 ++ 20:20 hdl_laptop +1 to March,2 20:20 imp +1 20:21 tajoli +1 20:21 thd ++ 20:21 sekjal +1 20:21 Jo same time? 20:21 collum ++ 20:21 slef Jo: yes 20:21 magnus +1 20:21 Jo someone will post notes for this meeting? 20:21 gmcharlt +1 20:21 slef OK, meeting adjourned until 19:00 Tuesday 2 March 2010 and congratulations to collum sneaking on the attendee list! 20:22 Jo thanks everyone 20:22 slef Jo: yes. Do you need them before 25 Feb? 20:23 slef Thanks all for participating and all the ideas shared freely. 20:23 davi Will be it a communitee meeting or and 'general' one? 20:23 chris hiya steven_tw :) 20:23 davi What is the difference? 20:23 chris_n community 20:23 slef davi: that will be community handover. 20:23 chris_n the general is a developer meeting in reality 20:24 davi ok, thanks 20:24 slef davi: CH meetings are about gathering materials with HLT 20:24 chris_n or maybe I should say development related 20:24 slef chris_n: USERS AND DEVELOPERS... I keep telling everyone ;-) 20:24 * slef runs 20:24 * chris_n knew that was coming as soon as he hit <enter> 20:24 chris_n ;-) 20:24 steven_tw hi chris 20:24 slef damn, predictability 20:24 wizzyrea jo: what's your email 20:25 wizzyrea lol I can't find it >.< 20:25 brendan awesomeness@hlt 20:25 owen Is that correct? 20:25 gmcharlt owen: yes 20:25 chris_n time is wrong maybe? 20:25 slef wizzyrea: I'll msg it you 20:25 wizzyrea ty slef 20:25 chris_n 1100 UTC according to wiki 20:25 chris_n gmcharlt: ? 20:26 tajoli for wiki: Tuesday, 09 February 2010 at 11:00 UTC+0 20:27 gmcharlt chris_n: you're right, it's 11:00 UTC+0 20:27 owen Thanks chris_n 20:28 schuster wizzyrea - I'm waiting to be wowed... ;) 20:28 wizzyrea they wanted MU, it takes a little longer ;) 20:28 jwagner I thought the meeting next week was on Wednesday. It's Tuesday? 20:29 * owen gives schuster a "Moo!" in the meantime 20:30 schuster Now if I could only get that stuff to print... Guess I'll have to give up until I can get to a higher release. 20:31 Jo sorry - was on phone 20:31 braedon chris_n: now that the meeting is over, apologies for not getting back to you yesterday. I will give the patch a try today, and see what happens 20:32 owen Can someone "select suggestedon from suggestions" and tell me if they're getting an dates? Looks to me like suggestion dates aren't stored 20:35 collum owen: suggestedon is not a column in my table. I have a date which is defined by a timestamp. 20:35 hdl_laptop owen should be suggesteddate 20:36 owen Well, I'm glad I asked :) 20:36 * owen wonders how he got into this predicament 20:37 schuster schuster still mooing... people in the office looking at him funny... 20:38 cait why does schuster moo? 20:38 hdl_laptop owen: ancient code was with suggestedon and not suggesteddate, I thought I had fixed any occurence of suggestedon. 20:39 owen hdl_laptop: Database updates seem to be a weak point in the upgrade process. I must have skipped something by mistake. 20:40 * owen still doesn't see data in suggesteddate after adding a new suggestion 20:41 hdl_laptop hi indradg 20:43 wizzyrea way early, but koha-community.mykansaslibrary.org (working on the DNS now) 20:43 chris_n wizzyrea++ # nice :-) 20:43 wizzyrea could have been even faster but you wanted MU. PF. 20:44 wizzyrea pff, that is ;) 20:44 Ropuch ;> 20:44 hdl_laptop owen: seen the bug 20:44 hdl_laptop owen: in opac/opac-suggestion.pl 20:44 hdl_laptop replace suggestioncreateddate by suggesteddate 20:48 joetho @karma wizzyrea 20:48 munin joetho: Karma for "wizzyrea" has been increased 47 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 47. 20:49 wizzyrea now that is just scary 20:49 chris she deserves it 20:49 cait :) 20:49 wizzyrea heh, we'll see soon enough >.> 20:49 brendan @karma chris 20:49 munin brendan: Karma for "chris" has been increased 103 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 103. 20:49 brendan nice nothing negative about chris 20:49 jwagner @karma jwagner 20:49 munin jwagner: Karma for "jwagner" has been increased 16 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 16. 20:49 joetho @karma vickiteal 20:49 munin joetho: Karma for "vickiteal" has been increased 2 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 2. 20:50 wizzyrea because you're awesome like that 20:50 chris probably deserve a -- for my crack about the US today tho 20:50 cait @karma cait kf 20:50 munin cait: cait kf has neutral karma. 20:50 wizzyrea @karma kf 20:50 munin wizzyrea: Karma for "kf" has been increased 6 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 6. 20:50 wizzyrea @karma cait 20:50 munin wizzyrea: Karma for "cait" has been increased 2 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 2. 20:50 cait ok, I need to decide who I am 20:50 wizzyrea def 20:50 wizzyrea I'm always getting confused 20:50 joetho @karma joetho 20:50 wizzyrea (and that sounds like a very existential statement) 20:50 munin joetho: joetho has neutral karma. 20:50 wizzyrea joetho++ for being awesome 20:50 wizzyrea @karma joetho 20:50 munin wizzyrea: Karma for "joetho" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1. 20:50 cait started koha in my free time mostly - so it was cait , kf is my work self 20:53 brendan joetho++ 20:53 Vickiteal I stepped away from desk for a few minutes and there is all this stuff about mooing and karma. You guys are funny. 20:53 Vickiteal I agree with my Karma at 2 and Chris at 103. I'm grateful for the 2. 20:54 Jo wow - playing hardball. with hotels is resulting iun some quite good accom discounts for KohaCon 2010 20:54 cait chris probably deserves more... I forget about the karma thing most of the times when he helps me with something 20:54 schuster @karma schuster 20:54 munin schuster: Karma for "schuster" has been increased 12 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 12. 20:54 gmcharlt Jo: not surprising - for the upcoming Evergreen conference, the committee practically had hotels begging to host it 20:54 schuster Wow wonder how that happened! 20:57 * owen had a suggestions.managedon column instead of suggestions.manageddate too 20:57 Ropuch gmcharlt: I wish some airlines would beg me for allowe them to take me to NZ ;> 20:58 owen Me too Ropuch 20:58 gmcharlt heh 20:59 cait Ropuch: tell me if you find one :) 20:59 Ropuch hehe 21:00 imp same here :D 21:01 * Ropuch has just finished writing 'Installing Koha for my mom' ;> 21:02 chris :-) 21:03 Ropuch Now I;'m working on part 1 - "Installing Ubuntu on VirtualBox for my mom" 21:03 Ropuch I plan to do some tutorials with "My mom can do this" certificate 21:05 braedon haha 21:05 braedon link? 21:06 chris_n owen: is the left menu in csv-profiles.pl messed up in your development install? 21:06 Ropuch braedon: http://bagno.be/koha/instalacja.html 21:06 Ropuch But it's in polish 21:07 owen chris_n: I just submitted a patch for it today 21:07 chris_n ahh... cool 21:08 braedon Ropuch: ...oh. To google translate! 21:08 Ropuch Looking through translation atm ;> 21:09 braedon i'l have a read through on my lunch break. (two hours or so:( ) 21:22 magnus_away it works! http://koha-community.org/ 21:22 chilts sweet! :) 21:22 * chilts still needs to read the meeting logs this morning 21:22 chris wizzyrea++ 21:23 magnus wizzyrea++ 21:23 chilts can we go and signup a new blog? 21:24 wizzyrea not quite yet 21:24 wizzyrea still setting it up 21:24 wizzyrea :) 21:24 * chilts holds back 21:24 wizzyrea thks :) 21:24 chilts :) 21:24 imp wizzyrea++ 21:24 chilts wizzyrea++ 21:24 chris chilts: its more a replacement partial site for www.koha.org 21:24 chilts ah, ok 21:24 owen chilts: Read the meeting log for all the gory details 21:24 chilts righto ... :) 21:24 chilts sorry 21:24 chilts just got excited there 21:24 chris including me slandering an entire nation 21:24 chris chris-- 21:24 munin chris: Error: You're not allowed to adjust your own karma. 21:24 chilts lol 21:24 chilts yeah, saw that 21:25 chilts slapped down :) 21:25 wizzyrea chris__ 21:25 wizzyrea chris-- 21:25 wizzyrea there, just because 21:25 chris hehe 21:25 magnus hehe, someone had to do it... ;-) 21:25 owen Now everyone will wonder what the negative karma was for 21:25 owen chris, you can spread rumors about a violent outburst, many tears shed all around. 21:27 owen I wonder if we should not be allowing patrons to delete suggestions which have been accepted? 21:27 magnus good night, all - can't wait to see what the site will look like in the morning ;-) 21:32 cait imp++ # for being a nice person ;) 21:32 chris_n bbl 21:33 wizzyrea bah, no nengard 21:33 owen quitting_time++ # for being now 21:33 cait time to sleep here :) 21:43 chris brendan: got a sec? 21:43 brendan yes 21:43 chris do you guys have a 3.0.5 demo running? 21:44 brendan no - just HEAD 21:44 brendan I could get one up 21:44 chris i have one but i break it daily 21:44 chris playing with translations 21:44 wizzyrea http://koha-community.org/about/ 21:44 wizzyrea i r a thief 21:44 chris :) 21:45 chris http://old.koha.org/ is the old site, still up 21:45 wizzyrea ohhh good call 21:45 chris if there is anythign there you want 21:45 brendan I could switch one of my demo's to 3.0.5 for you if you want it 21:45 wizzyrea that is up to you 21:46 chilts the old site is better than the Plone one :) 21:46 chris plone is a bit stink 21:46 * wizzyrea is not a plone fan 21:57 schuster wizzyrea is a wizz... looking good... 21:57 schuster I'll stop mooing now. 21:57 Jo chilts: are you doing the kohacon 2010 website? 21:58 Jo I have updates for the accommodation which I'd like to email you. 21:59 chris you can edit that page yourself Jo 21:59 chris if you want 21:59 chilts Jo: yep ... but I can always give you access to update it yourself (if you have a Google Account)? 21:59 chilts so either/or .... andychilton -at- gmail -dot- com 22:00 Jo I have a google account 22:00 chilts message me your email and I'll add you, or chris can do it too 22:02 Jo wizzyrea: you are soooo clever :) 22:03 wizzyrea we'll see, jo ;) 22:04 braedon wizzyrea: missing a <p> block around the Library Standards Compliant paragraph of the about page 22:04 wizzyrea ah ty, will look, tis just copy/paste 22:05 wizzyrea better? 22:05 braedon yip :) 22:14 gmcharlt wizzyrea++ 22:18 chris hi pmlozeau 22:18 pmlozeau hi chris 22:20 chris richard: you about? 22:20 richard hey chris 22:21 chris katipo wanna be on here http://koha-community.org/support/paid-support/ ? 22:21 richard sure do 22:21 chris braedon: ditto you guys 22:21 chris richard: wanna drop me an email with what you want it to say, and ill make it so 22:21 richard cool 22:21 richard thanks chris 22:22 richard oooh it's alphabetical ;) 22:22 chris yup, no judgement implied at all :) 22:22 chilts wow, that site is going up pretty fast :) 22:22 chilts well done guys :) 22:22 joetho make vendors ASK to be listed 22:22 joetho ha ha ha ha 22:23 chris what you do joe is make them ask, then ignore them for months 22:23 brendan hmm... can't add a patron category on - categorie.pl?op=add_form (for current 3.01.00.110) 22:23 chris oh wait, we wanted to do it different 22:23 pmlozeau Could we update our entry on the list? (I work for inLibro) 22:23 braedon chris: i shall ask steven 22:23 chris thanks braedon 22:23 wizzyrea gmcharlt++ for using the event calendar function j^.^ 22:23 chris pmlozeau: you sure can 22:23 wizzyrea fyi, this is very much like how KLOW works 22:23 chris what would you like instead? 22:23 wizzyrea you can see why we like it 22:24 pmlozeau can I send it to you by email? I'll double check with Eric Begin 22:24 chris sure can 22:24 pmlozeau perfect 22:25 brendan yup I need to update my phone number too -- (888) 900-8944 22:29 chris hows that now brendan 22:29 brendan thanks chris 22:30 brendan just missing the part where it says "bywater has programmed %XX of koha" 22:30 brendan I know bad joke 22:30 * brendan goes back into hiding 22:30 chris hehe 22:41 gmcharlt @later tell nengard is there a rendered HTML view of the Koha 3.2 docbook anywhere? might be something for you, BibLibre and/or brendan to set up quickly 22:41 munin gmcharlt: The operation succeeded. 22:43 brendan gmcharlt there is one 22:43 brendan I think chris has got it on his site 22:43 chris yeah i have a couple 22:43 chris http://stats.workbuffer.org/manual_en/ 22:43 chris pmlozeau: updated the address 22:44 gmcharlt cool - does it get updated automatically / periodically? 22:44 chris yeah, but thats my homeserver so id rather it doesnt get linked to, but that we put it somewhere else :) 22:46 pmlozeau chris: thanks! 23:12 gmcharlt for those who missed the meeting - http://koha-community.org/ has been set up as a temporary home away from home - domain is held by HLT, hosting of the Wordpress site by wizzyrea 23:17 chris http://www.nzherald.co.nz/web-2-0/news/article.cfm?c_id=363&objectid=10623790&ref=rss 23:20 gmcharlt chris: oops, sorry, I redid my retweet to not put words in your mouth 23:20 chris no worries :-) 23:29 brendan gmcharlt++ 23:29 brendan I like the picture you have for twitter 23:33 chris hey Jo, see the new site? 23:33 gmcharlt brendan: thanks 23:35 Jo yep - and it is beautiful 23:41 rhcl_inclass gee, is the IRC meeting still going on? 23:41 chris hehe no 23:41 chris finished hours ago, irc is like this most days 23:42 rhcl I was reading the log just now, looked like it continued for a couple of hours at least 23:42 chris bout 1.5 hours ... tis pretty standard 23:42 gmcharlt we know not the the meaning of "short meeting" :) 23:43 joetho whoa chris I'm glad I checked here, I just changed my dox link to the link you gave me 23:43 chris yeah dont be doing that please :-) 23:43 chris the will end up probably at docs.koha-community or something 23:43 joetho I will fix it tomorrow. I am quite sure NEKLS will host that 23:43 joetho or wherever. 23:43 chris i only have 40gig a month bandwidth 23:44 chris before i have to pay extra 23:44 joetho whoa 23:44 joetho I will fix it now 23:44 rhcl can anybody recommend a domain registrar? 23:44 chris godaddy is annoying, but cheap 23:44 chris i use them for my workbuffer.org domain 23:45 rhcl yea, that's who I usually use, and agree with you 100% 23:45 joetho man oh man. goddady gets to make their own rules. 23:46 chris i see more commits going in 23:46 chris gmcharlt++ 23:52 gmcharlt chris: is the translations branch in a pullable state for 3.2 at the moment?