Time Nick Message 22:50 slef I'll read back the logs later and see if the agenda should change, but please beat me to it. 22:50 chris thanks slef 22:49 slef http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:meetingnotes10feb02 created 22:45 chris hehe 22:43 brendan [over] 22:43 chris_n2 lol 22:43 brendan I feel like I'm reading the movie airplane 22:37 chris imho 22:37 chris that you dont want in the log 22:37 chris or phone numbers 22:37 chris off is more use when doing things like email addresses 22:33 thd [off] The knowledge that [off] is ever used probably provokes an interest as much as it may suppress the ease of obtaining the information. As slef stated, the interest would not be pursued cheaply. 22:30 chris_n2 [off] in that case, I'd say that the channel log is about as non-advertised a publicly available record as you could ask for and so no need to keep those things [off] record 22:28 thd [off] There should be no real secret here it is merely an issue of perception about the level of publicity and an adverse reaction to that which interferes with a friendly request. 22:27 chris_n2 [off] perhaps a second logbot logging to an access controlled log... transparency is the number one rule, but at times it could be the undoing of itself 22:26 thd [off] chris_n2: even in the worst case I think that a log should be kept which could be available to those interested with appropriate promises about not publicising it. 22:26 chris_n2 [off] I agree, but we need to inform meeting participants of the [off] usage for sensitive discussions 22:24 slef thd: square brackets [] not bars || 22:24 thd |off| chris_n2: I think that we should be as public as we reasonably can and I would only favour using off for a meeting if there would be a direct and immediate threat to the community where we could not respond properly in the open 22:22 slef biab 22:22 chris_n2 where my comment with [off] does not appear 22:22 slef I'm not particularly bothered to hide the TM questions, but I don't see any reason to actively publicise them just now. 22:22 chris_n2 thd: see http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/2010-01-05#i_368756 22:22 slef chris: I didn't realise that. Something earlier today makes more sense now. 22:21 chris yes 22:21 chris_n2 yes 22:21 thd chris does off allow everyone logged in to see it but avoid logging? 22:21 chris_n2 [off] /me wonders if logbot needs to take a break during meetings like this 22:21 slef in line with http://mjr.towers.org.uk/writing/fightingshadows#Information 22:21 chris just fyi 22:20 chris otherwise it all ends up there 22:20 chris prefix with [off] 22:20 chris anything you guys dont want in the public log 22:20 slef well, that and not tipping them off cheaply 22:19 thd slef: yes I had imagined that had been your reasoning about the notes but it was not perfectly clear to me. 22:18 slef thd: I have no problem with not posting this yet. The reasons seem similar to why I thought we might not want to compile notes of the meeting yet. 22:10 slef chris_n: not yet (post about patron card tool) 22:05 thd jransom: are you there? 22:04 chris fair enough 22:04 thd chris: There is an issue of degree of forwardness and the interpretation of hostility despite the best possible research only explanation. 22:03 Nate goodnight #Koha 22:03 thd chris: I explained that to the lawyer. 22:03 chris course, this is all publicly logged anyway 22:03 thd jransom: do you see my two messages above? 22:03 chris ill defer to the lawyers on that 22:02 thd If anyone thinks that it would be a mistake to take that legal advice against an announcement about legal research at this point on the mailing list please let me know. 22:00 thd hdl_laptop: I just had a conversation with the lawyer from SFLC who indicates that a message on the mailing list about researching the trademark / domain issue would be likely to be construed as antagonistic and harmful to the possibility of an easy painless resolution of the issue. 21:59 lee8buttemib_bp long time no chat 21:59 lee8buttemib_bp hi Chris 21:59 davi ack 21:59 lee8buttemib_bp Butte Public Library 21:59 chris its all publicly logged 21:58 lee8buttemib_bp many thanks 21:58 davi Who you work for lee8buttemib_bp ? 21:58 chris http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/2010-01-05#i_368182 21:58 davi Sent 21:53 davi processing ... 21:52 lee8buttemib_bp thanks lee8phillips2@gmail.com 21:52 davi Can you let me know your email in private? 21:52 davi I can send you it. 21:49 lee8buttemib_bp I know I missed the IRC meeting can I get the link to the archives chat from someone? 21:44 pianohacker not bad. In any case, I have to head off, see y'all 21:44 rhcl Tuatara? 21:44 davi Koha Lib 21:44 davi or 21:44 davi Lib Koha 21:44 davi or 21:44 davi ? 21:44 davi LibKoha 21:43 davi What about 21:41 davi I do not know. I am confused 21:41 Ropuch Trying to make some asci art? ;> 21:41 davi LibreLib Koha 21:41 davi LibreLib (Koha) 21:40 davi LibreLib Koha 21:40 Ropuch pianohacker: it sounds exactly like (he|she) loves in polish 21:40 davi LibreLib (Koha) 21:40 chilts Open Koha is way easier 21:40 davi LibreLib Koha 21:40 chris as a maori, im not having some american company removing a maori word from my usage 21:39 davi What about LibreKoha 21:39 pianohacker Koha has, among other things, very obvious pronunciation in a lot of languages 21:39 davi You are right Ropuch 21:39 chris yeah i will strongly resist removing koha from the name 21:39 davi That can be even a good thing 21:39 Ropuch davi: removing Koha from name is giving up 10 years of history and recognition 21:39 pianohacker Also, I am extremely confident that I would hear it said "LeeberLib" 21:39 rhcl Note that many people would take to writing LibreLib as "LL" 21:38 davi LibreLib 21:38 davi I will propose LibreLib in the next meeting 21:38 rhcl Just so :) 21:38 pianohacker A bit awkward to pronounce 21:38 davi and LibreLib does not sound bad 21:38 davi Free Software add the user freedom value 21:37 Ropuch It's like mix of LibLime & BibLibre 21:37 davi OpenSource is weak 21:37 rhcl Hey, how about "Lemon Koha" since there is a "Lime Koha"? 21:37 davi What about LibreLib ? 21:36 davi OpenOffice bad? OpenBSD? Open Sesame? OpenSuse? There are better names 21:36 Ropuch ;> 21:36 Ropuch Karmic Koala Koha? 21:36 rhcl Let's see Koala Koha? 21:36 davi rhcl, Completed the log reading 21:36 Ropuch rhcl: I thinkd we should preserve "Koha" part of name 21:36 richard aw mate, they are so cuddly :) 21:35 Ropuch chris: ;-) 21:35 rhcl Well, there's lots of Koala bears too, but Koala ILS has a certain charm. 21:35 chris i think i have to renounce my nz citizenship if we change the name to an australian animal 21:35 Ropuch There's Koala Player 21:34 rhcl It might be a poor second choice, since Koha should be truly free and open as it was originally designed to be, but the only other name I like is Koala, and nobody besides me seems to like that. 21:34 Ropuch I like Open Koha too 21:32 chilts because of prior art 21:32 * chilts like Open Koha ... it's implicit of it's meaning 21:32 rhcl Well, I certainly think it's possible to argue that we have too many Open* somethings now, but OpenKoha might indicate clearly that there is a "closed" Koha and an "open" Koha in the same sense that there is a closed Office and an Open Office. 21:28 pianohacker It is a bit generic, but others have used it 21:27 rhcl Is OpenOffice bad? OpenBSD? Open Sesame? OpenSuse? 21:22 davi 'open' is a very bad prefix. 21:22 davi At the right time I will propose a better name 21:21 munin wizzyrea: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is -6.3�C (3:19 PM CST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: -11.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 30.39 in 1029.0 hPa (Falling). 21:21 wizzyrea @wunder 66047 21:20 davi very bad I would say. 21:20 davi openkoha is a bad name 21:15 collum snow 21:14 munin collum: The current temperature in Taylor Mill, Taylor Mill, Kentucky is -6.1�C (4:10 PM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: -8.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 28.84 in 976.5 hPa (Rising). Winter Storm Watch in effect from Thursday morning through Thursday evening... 21:14 collum @wunder 41017 21:12 chris_n bbl 20:46 davi slef, I was late in the meeting because I did not know about it. Reading the log now. 20:44 wizzyrea so. So. Great. 20:44 wizzyrea it's so great. 20:43 wizzyrea collum: I KNO!!! 20:40 collum cool! http://mpm-itk.sesse.net/ 20:38 * owen will 20:37 wizzyrea ooh, I don't really have time to explain right now owen, but ask me later, okies? 20:37 nengard k time for me to log off - i'll probably be back - as you all know i can't stay away :) hehe 20:37 chris apache2-mpm-tik ... ill let wizzyrea explain :) 20:37 wizzyrea seriously, mpm-tik = WIN 20:36 owen mpm-tik? 20:36 * wizzyrea puts that on her to do list 20:36 wizzyrea ooh 20:36 chris that way you can tighten the privileges on koha-conf.xml right up 20:36 chris specially for anyone running more than one koha instance on the same machine 20:35 chris it would be useful for koha too 20:35 chris wizzyrea: you should do a blog post about mpm-tik 20:35 chris :) 20:34 * chris_n feels very enlightened on learning that bit of knowledge ;-) 20:33 wizzyrea (I learned that this week, aren't you glad) 20:32 wizzyrea EC2 is either in US Eastern or US Pacific 20:26 chris_n slef: did you see my post about the patron card tool? 20:26 thd I will try to obtain an immediate answer about what might be helpful and then post what I can think of with a stay tuned message. 20:25 chris_n slef: unlocked now... sorry 20:24 thd I just do not want to miss the participation of someone who would ignore everything after the first post 20:24 thd I agree completely 20:23 chris not sure, i think it might be good for the community to know that legal advice is being sought 20:23 thd chris: I could do that immediately but I was wondering if I should wait for some answer from SFLC about they type of information which they would find helpful in case I might miss something in my first announcement which will get the most attention 20:21 slef fbcit has it locked I think 20:21 chris i wonder thd do you want to email the list about the SFLC ? 20:21 thd slef: yes, sections are good for avoiding locking conflicts 20:21 chris sweet thanks for doing that slef 20:21 slef I'll come back and play again after dinner, probably 20:20 slef Does it lock more nicely if you edit sections not the whole thing? 20:20 chris :) 20:20 slef you know more than my traceroute ;-) 20:19 chris ahh that'd be right 20:19 slef It's at Spry Hosting, Seattle 20:19 chris its on ec2 somewhere i think 20:18 slef no, -0800 AFAICT 20:18 slef probably Ohio USA 20:17 chris_n what TZ is the wiki in? 20:16 slef and another in section 5 20:16 slef found, even 20:16 slef fond it in section 6 20:14 thd I was merely reconstituting something from KohaCon 2006 DevWeek which was apparently lost when peirrick left the community in consequence of INNEO leaving 20:12 slef damn... when I was editing the rules for wiki markup, I remember seeing something and thinking "that looks odd" but now I can't remember what ;-) 20:12 thd Hence, my effort to describe how to do it so that it actually works 20:11 thd I kept getting pages when trying to create namespaces 20:11 slef yeah, it's quite unlike any other wiki I've seen 20:11 thd The real problem was that I had trouble initially using the correct syntax for namespaces 20:10 thd I was so exhausted by my effort from that weekend that I neglected to note what I had done for the mailing list. 20:09 slef http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:organisations:koha_project_organisation:hlt:rules posted 20:09 thd they were not in fact linked in the wiki only in email messages 20:09 thd I spent all of a weekend putting some things in namespaces when I could not find discussions about the foundation in one place 20:08 thd However I can help 20:08 thd slef: just create one if you do not find one suitable 20:08 thd slef: I am not the arbitrator of namespace rules :) 20:06 slef posting at the namespace location I said 20:05 slef I think I commented... quite often, you can post to blogs which I can't/won't because they discriminate against users with disabilities 20:05 slef sure, I saw that - be ready to email the link out lots too ;-) 20:04 nengard I wrote it publically :) don't want to be a hypocrite and ask others to be public when I wouldn't :) 20:04 slef The Lone Gunmen are a trio of fictional characters, Richard "Ringo" Langly, Melvin Frohike and John Fitzgerald Byers, who had recurring roles on The X-Files and also starred in a short-lived spin-off, also called The Lone Gunmen. The name was derived from the lone gunman theory of the John F. Kennedy assassination. http://a.vu/w:The_Lone_Gunmen 20:04 slef nengard: write a really good canned reply saying you'd love to help, but you cannot be the lone gunmen any more. 20:02 slef en:organisations:koha_project_organisation:hlt:rules ? 20:01 slef thd: where in the namespace should the draft rules go? 20:01 nengard they're sending me emails out of the public eye and nagging chris to do something 20:01 slef yeah, that's a bit odd 20:01 masonj thd: thanks for your effort with SFLC, too 20:01 thd at least he has been the contact person about the wiki and volunteered to research the trademark issue 20:01 nengard and they're not speaking up 20:01 nengard but the libraries who are upset don't want LLEK - they have Koha and want to keep Koha 20:01 slef nengard: not LLEK... 20:00 slef Given the postponement, I don't think there's any harm in noting this meeting. 20:00 nengard slef - but the thing with Koha is - if you upset the vendor you still get to use/keep the software 20:00 thd www.softwarefreedom.org 20:00 thd (212) 580-0898 fax 20:00 thd (212) 461-1911 direct 20:00 thd New York, NY 10023 20:00 thd 1995 Broadway, 17th Fl. 20:00 thd Software Freedom Law Center 20:00 thd Counsel 20:00 slef LMSes are mission-critical, so librarians seem to be a bit scared of upsetting them. 20:00 thd Aaron Williamson 20:00 thd for the immediate record my contact person at SFLC 20:00 Nate AMEN! 20:00 chris_n nengard: exactly ;-) 20:00 nengard and how do others know what to expect from the company? 19:59 nengard chris_n i think you're required to express disatisfaction - otherwise how does the company know they need to fix something? 19:59 Nate Well, it is with some companies :) 19:59 chris_n and "being legally correct" does not exclude the right to express dissatisfaction imho 19:59 schuster OK thanks for the meeting Nicole - Feb 2nd! Looking forward to good news between now and then. Have a great day everyone off to another meeting! This one F2F! 19:59 thd at least as it should be Nate 19:58 thd yes 19:58 thd Nate++ 19:58 sekjal Nate++ 19:58 chris_n if expressing dissatisfaction with QOS puts relations at a risk, then the relationship was already sour 19:58 Nate I thought the customer made their vendor fear for damaging a relationship 19:58 thd Nate: Is what backwards? 19:58 nengard Nate++ 19:58 masonj nate++ lol 19:58 chris Nate++ 19:57 Nate thd: isn't that a bit backwards 19:57 nengard schuster - the info after the 16th can be shared on list and then what chris said 19:57 chris schuster: we can always call a special meeting if somethign happens such that one is needed 19:57 jransom good point 19:57 Ropuch :) 19:57 jdavidb Good job, nengard. nice and quick. 19:57 schuster But... Deadlines are Jan 16th and 20th so we'll sit on things until Feb 2nd - ?? 19:56 nengard no prob all :) 19:56 hdl_laptop thanks nengard 19:56 chris thanks nengard 19:56 thd I think that jransom raises an important point that, if I interpret correctly, it is unrealistic to expect customers to overtly risk damaging their relationship with a company while they have an ongoing contract with the company. 19:56 jransom thanks everyone. 19:56 jransom ok. Thanks Nicole. 19:56 nengard or continue or whatever :) 19:56 nengard I hearby close this meeting - let the ranting begin 19:56 GeorgeSue My apology 19:56 nengard okay so the next meeting is Tuesday, 2 February 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0 19:56 jdavidb chris++ #for all sorts of reasons. 19:56 schuster chris ++ 19:56 chris_n + 19:55 chris_n feb 2+ 19:55 * chris just had to put that out there, it was making me deeply unhappy and ive resolved not to let it anymore 19:55 schuster Yes please. 19:55 nengard okay - so do we do the first Tues of Feb at this time 19:55 schuster LibLime clients are trying to be legally correct in dealing with our vendor. Working in the background until Jan 16th. 19:55 jransom and LL need to be honest about problems and take steps to resolve them. 19:55 chris i think perhaps so 19:55 nengard are we getting off topic - should we come up with a next meeting and then close this meeting? 19:54 jransom I think a Liblime client problem has become a Koha community problem. 19:54 chris what she said 19:54 slef well, one of our libraries has asked me to report what happens here 19:54 nengard he wants them to stand up for themselves 19:54 nengard argue for librarians 19:54 thd not prepared to do what chris? 19:53 chris if the libraries are not willing to back us up 19:53 masonj i like 'openkoha' too 19:53 nengard :( 19:53 chris and im not prepared to do it anymore 19:53 slef thd: let's cross that bridge if we need to. 19:53 thd slef: It is not my favourite either but please win favour for a beter one 19:53 jransom We must be seen to be actively taking positive steps to reclaim Koha for the community. I like open koha :) 19:53 nengard but then again i said that already openly and was shot down by libraries 19:53 chris as you all know by now, im sick of being attacked when i point out things 19:53 * chris_n thinks they should in any case 19:53 nengard libraries-break-silence++++ 19:53 chris_n libraries-break-silence++ 19:52 slef openkoha is still a awful name 19:52 chris and by we, i mean libraries 19:52 chris we need to break the silence 19:52 chris i think if silence is the result 19:52 thd One of the next issues is if the answer from LibLime is complete silence do we put up openkoha.org or some such which is where researching the trademark may become immediately important not that the presence of the trademark should stop us 19:52 jransom like grabbing wiki and bugzilla copies? 19:52 nengard which brings us to the final agenda item of coming up with a next meeting 19:52 jransom We are still posiitioning us incase we have to relaunch aye... 19:51 nengard okay so i repeat okay so the next agenda item I think we can skip since negotiations are not concluded: 'Next issues if negotiations have concluded.' 19:51 chris_n lol 19:51 nengard hehe 19:51 chris or 431 19:51 chris or 23 19:51 chris cos negotiations might conclude in 12 different ways 19:51 nengard that's what i thought :) 19:51 jransom well concluded negotiations can be of 2 sorts: we have the stuff or we don't 19:51 chris well, cant really answer that 19:50 nengard okay - so then the next agenda item is: Next issues if negotiations have concluded. 19:50 schuster nengard - I don't know about skipping - getting things in place physically is a good idea as well or at least an outline of a plan. 19:50 jransom yes 19:50 nengard great so hdl_laptop and jransom will work with thd in communicating with the lawyer and we will all share research and info on the mailing list 19:49 thd thanks hdl_laptop and jransom 19:49 jransom me too 19:49 hdl_laptop thd: you can count on me. 19:49 GeorgeSue I think Jo should be the the contact person as I will be out of coverage 19:49 nengard okay so the next agenda item I think we can skip since negotiations are not concluded: 'Next issues if negotiations have concluded.' 19:49 thd I would actually like a contact person at BibLibre because in addition to anyone else becuase their co-operation could be essential for any actual challenge on at least one possible point. 19:48 schuster GeorgeSue ++ if willing 19:47 thd well GeorgeSue could be a contact person at HLT. 19:47 GeorgeSue Hlt will help where possible 19:47 chris_n it may be in an email or the channel log 19:47 schuster If items are found where are we posting/linking/sending for future reference? 19:47 chris_n thd: I went through some of that a while back 19:46 GeorgeSue HLT will help 19:46 thd We need to find anything we think might help such as statements that LibLime intended to hold assets in question for the community until a community organisation was ready etc. 19:46 jransom but it may not be the most useful 2nd person. 19:46 chris_n jransom +1 19:46 jransom It should probably be from hLT since we are the parent org fr koha community 19:46 chris thd often thinks aloud, it's a process i appreciate 19:45 masonj +1 19:45 hdl_laptop +1 19:45 nengard +1 19:45 schuster thd - I thought you were asking for another individual to be involved with your direct discussions. 19:45 chris_n +1 19:45 chris yes, i agree 19:44 jransom sounds excellent - mailing list for evrything wherever possible 19:44 thd schuster: I intend for HLT to be consulted on every step and I think that most communication can be forwarded to the mailing list 19:43 jransom Schuster: nods 19:43 chris but cant offer much more time than that 19:43 thd Each of us may have some information about historical stuff which we might have heard or discover in the public record of the mailing list etc. if we would look. 19:43 schuster As HLT is going to be the holder - it wouldn't hurt for someone jransom or GeorgeSue? to be involved to understand what the US Lawyers are saying. 19:43 chris_n thd: did you have anyone in mind? 19:42 chris im happy to help out with historical stuff if needed 19:42 jransom but youknow stuff from early days og koha 19:42 thd nothing should be pursued without consulting HLT 19:42 masonj chris_n +1 19:42 chris im juggling 5 million balls at the moment already 19:42 jransom lol 19:42 chris dear god no 19:41 jransom thd: Chris C? 19:41 schuster thd - it would make sense for HLT to be in the loop on these discussions.. 19:41 thd However, I think that information could be passed openly on the mailing list unless there is some fear about some particular bit of information 19:41 rhcl +1 19:41 sekjal chris_n +1 19:41 hdl_laptop chris_n++ chris++ 19:41 jransom thd: if you need anything from HLT just ask 19:41 Ropuch chris_n +1 19:41 thd I would like to coordinate things with at least one other person for what might be necessary 19:40 nengard chris +1 19:40 nengard chris_n +1 19:40 chris chris_n: +1 19:40 chris doing_stuff_in_the_open++ 19:40 thd being situated in NYC where SFLC is gives me an advantage 19:40 chris_n I propose that we authorize thd to continue communications with SFLC on behalf of the koha community 19:40 nengard okay - so where are we on this issue? research done in the open while negotiations continue until the 16th of Jan 19:39 thd I have very convenient access even directly to this lawyer although SFLC has been busy recently with busybox lawsuits but I do not want to be the exclusive contact person 19:39 schuster future ++ 19:39 nengard we can make it clear that we're in negotiations 19:38 jransom protetcting the futre ++ 19:38 nengard we should know what our rights are - and I think we should see what these people have to say 19:38 sekjal having_more_information++ 19:38 schuster nengard - agreed - in all maters! 19:38 thd I agree that I am corrected schuster 19:38 richard hi 19:38 nengard schuster research is always worthwhile 19:37 schuster thd - we have some possible positive action with the group you are currently working with so I think it would be good to exhaust that before turning elsewhere, and not to move to far until we know what the outcome of the Jan 16th deadline is. 19:37 thd Even if the trademark might not be actively used against the community at this moment there is always the uncertainty of the future 19:37 chris_n thd++ 19:37 thd We need all the help that we can get on this issue 19:36 nengard might I jump in and remind you all about law librarians :) they too can help :) 19:36 slef SPI has two sets of lawyers but I think they ask whoever is more available 19:36 thd SFLC seems enthusiastic and has a legal director who is a patent and trademarks expert 19:35 thd ok I stand corrected 19:35 chris_n imho, we should work all possible fronts at the same time to provide maximum pressure 19:35 slef only one per issue, generally, I think 19:35 thd big projects like Debian SPI consult several sets of lawyers do they not slef? 19:35 slef The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is an international non-profit advocacy and legal organization based in the United States with the stated purpose of being dedicated to preserving the right to freedom of speech, such as protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, in the context of today's digital age (see also digital rights)... http://a.vu/w:Electronic_Frontier_Foundation 19:35 Nate nicole, i agree with you, but think we should try to have as many ducks in a row as possible before the 16th 19:34 schuster Too many lawyers creates too much confusion and who is right.??? 19:34 thd they also have lawyers who volunteer time to free software projects 19:34 hdl_laptop nengard++ 19:34 thd Electronic Frontier Foundation 19:34 chris_n EFF? 19:33 thd I also think that the issue is too important to leave to one set of lawyers and we should seek alternate advice via EFF for example 19:33 nengard how's that work for you all? 19:33 nengard my suggestion on this issue is that we research between now and the new deadline - the 16th - and if negotiations go well then we can stop research - and if not we can see what is needed to move forward 19:32 chris_n thd: I have an email which outlines several pertinent points which could be forwarded 19:32 thd remember though we are only speaking about researching the possibility 19:32 thd exactly slef, I have been very cautious because I certainly do not want to even be perceived as acting unilaterally 19:32 jransom I think Brendan raised an issue once about this 19:31 chris id agree with that 19:31 thd They would also of course need any information which anyone could find that might be thought of as legal grounds 19:31 schuster I would also suggest that maybe their questions be written and posted on listservs/wiki so many people could respond to them with contact information? 19:31 slef thd: I'd be happy for you to continue exploring this, but would like that you to "the community" in some way before acting on it. 19:30 thd I have a contact person there with whom I consulted about the wiki 19:30 jransom (would protect kete as well..) 19:30 jransom would love to see the word Koha treated internationally as it is in NZ 19:30 nengard thd I have some background research that I did already after the last meeting and can send that to you or to them 19:30 thd the only background they have is my brief verbal explanation 19:29 thd Well they have no background really and I did not want to act unilaterally 19:29 jdavidb I would support that. It won't hurt a thing to find out the how-and-what-it-means. 19:29 chris_n it can certainly provide greater leverage on all fronts 19:29 nengard i am by the way on board as well - just want to be clear on where we go next 19:29 * chris_n too 19:29 nengard thd - what does that require from us? how do we help exactly? 19:29 jransom Oh I'll vote a big yes 19:29 thd I wanted community approval and participation to help them with their research 19:28 chris cos thats how it is in NZ already 19:28 * chris hopes for the latter 19:28 slef What does that mean? Would that leave it open to future registration, or make Koha a generic term? 19:28 thd they also mentioned a possibility that control of the domain might be challenged independently of trademark control 19:28 GeorgeSue What does that mean 19:28 rhcl ? details? we're all ears 19:28 schuster Interesting... 19:28 nengard thd and what would that entail? 19:28 chris_n nice 19:27 jransom :) 19:27 thd they are interested in researching the possibility of having the US trademark nullified 19:27 thd in the context of relicensing the wiki content the US trademark came up 19:26 thd As part of my communication with the Software Freedom Law Center ... 19:26 jransom renaming, rebranding and relaunch with 3.2 19:26 * chris_n thinks it best to let LL slam the door 19:26 nengard thd what issue? 19:26 schuster + 19:26 nengard k 19:26 thd I would like to introduce the parallel issue 19:26 nengard I'm with slef - i'll go with the majority 19:25 GeorgeSue me too 19:25 sekjal +1 19:25 slef I do not support it, but will not oppose. 19:25 thd ++ 19:25 Ropuch +1 19:25 masonj +1 19:25 Nate +1 19:25 thd there is an issue in parallel 19:25 owen +1 19:25 jransom me to 19:25 chris_n I agree w/chris 19:25 wizzyrea I am for it 19:25 jransom (stunned silence) 19:25 nengard okay - so does anyone want to say anything about postponing until ALA Midwinter - aka 16th of Jan 19:25 chris i think if negotiations are still continuing, it is in our best interest to let them continue a bit more 19:25 jdavidb vicki++ , for having those conversations with Josh. 19:24 jransom as Nicole said. 19:24 thd or are we referring to LibLime still? 19:24 schuster No you are right on. FYI that is also the American Library Association Conference. 19:24 nengard those to get the koha domain and trademarks transferred to HLT 19:23 thd Which negotiations are unresolved? 19:23 jransom David: anthing to add? 19:23 jransom The 16th Jan has been requested as a postponement date 19:23 thd We should be sure to have the NZ time translated to be clear. 19:23 GeorgeSue Sorry away form 18 to 2nd Feb, My apologies,, may not have coverage 19:23 nengard which kind of brings us to #3 Possible suggestions on unresolved negotiations. 19:22 jransom from Vicki: I've had conversion with Joshua Ferraro at LibLime and there will be opportunity for continued discussion and negotiation. I ask for a postponement to allow negotiations to continue." 19:22 jransom I have apologies and a statement from her 19:22 schuster David Schuster 19:22 schuster No but I am in her place kind of. 19:22 jransom no. 19:21 nengard is Vikki here? 19:21 nengard Report on status of negotiations over assignment of trademarks and domains. 19:21 nengard okay - so next item on the agenda 19:21 slef ok to me 19:21 chris_n looks fine to me 19:21 jransom yep. Thats good. 19:21 chris thats the 19th for most of youse fullas 19:21 nengard So Weds the 20th - is that enough time? and remember we're talking the 20th in NZ time 19:20 hdl_laptop +1 19:20 slef thu 21 jan? 19:20 chris_n Jan 21 ?? 19:20 slef BobCalyx++ 19:20 jransom (i don't have a calender handy) 19:20 jransom bob++ 19:20 nengard bob++ 19:20 schuster draft motion for Bob!+ 19:19 nengard what date is that? 19:19 chris_n seconded 19:19 nengard awesome - so we'll try to finish the Weds before the meeting - does that work? 19:19 chris id also like to propose a motion of thanks to bob birchall at calyx for the initial draft 19:19 GeorgeSue yes 19:19 chris_n +1 19:19 schuster + 19:19 jransom yes 19:19 thd ++ 19:19 chris yep 19:19 slef +1 19:19 nengard okay - so can we all agree to try to take some time to make edits/additions? 19:19 GeorgeSue We eill need a short minutes for each meeting for the records. 19:18 nengard jransom - makes sense! 19:18 jransom I could but we do try to get all papers out with the agenda so trustees have time to read and digest before the meeting; makes for better quality deciionmaking :) 19:18 thd s/they/his/g 19:18 masonj Mason James, KohaAloha NZ 19:17 nengard thd works for me 19:17 thd Someone could attach his clear name or initials if they think that they may need to explain further about a comment in the wiki. 19:17 masonj hi everyone 19:17 nengard jransom if something gets held up can you submit a draft at that meeting? 19:17 chris_n steady progress++ 19:17 chris seems like a good point to aim for 19:17 jransom yes 19:17 jransom There is no panic or rush here but steady progress would be good. 19:17 chris thats the next HLT meeting jransom ? 19:17 nengard so basically we all need to carve out some time to submit comments/edits/etc in the next couple weeks 19:16 jransom however we don't have to make that deadline. 19:16 jransom timeframes: I would like to get this doc on the next agenda, so he 2nd to last Thursday in Jan 19:16 slef just write FIXME next to it and leave it a while 19:16 slef either the clarification can be provided by anyone or the point should be struck 19:15 chris_n :-) 19:15 nengard chris_n reading my mind 19:15 slef but this is an argument which has been circulating around the co-op for months, so ho hum. 19:15 nengard well i like knowing who to contact for clarification 19:15 chris_n slef: unless someone would like clarification on a point 19:15 slef nengard: it should not matter who wrote what. 19:15 slef thd: it's unusual that we have reasons not to note, so I mention it. 19:15 chris_n nengard: good idea 19:15 slef thd: yes, I appreciate the arguments for noting. 19:14 nengard should we note what edits we've made? I know that the history keeps track of that - but it may not be easy to see what everyone added/changed/suggested using the history 19:14 thd :) 19:14 slef ok, I've landed myself more work :-/ ;-) 19:14 chris slef: i think that thats a great idea 19:14 jransom absolutely 19:14 thd slef: I partly meant to encourage involvement by more interested parties at future meetings. 19:13 slef if that's OK with HLT? 19:13 slef yes, that works OK-ish. I'll convert that to a page immediately after this meeting 19:13 * Ropuch Piotr Wejman, Biblioteka CSNE 19:13 slef let me see if I can convert the PDF to a wiki page 19:12 jransom rather than take it offsite 19:12 slef thd: alerting the press and certain others who aren't taking time to participate. That may or may not matter, depending on what is reported to this meeting. 19:12 jransom would it better to take commenst on the koha wiki instead 19:12 chris_n Chris Nighswonger, FBC 19:12 jransom sorry folks 19:12 jransom http://kete.library.org.nz/site/documents/show/46-rules-for-koha-subcommittee-of-hlt 19:12 jransom Hey George ( Horowhenua Library Trust trustee) 19:12 nengard jransom, can you give us a link to the kete page? I only have a link to the PDF which I cannot comment on or edit 19:12 slef Kete requires registration which is a pain and does HLT want a load of one-comment koha people registering? Can we gather comments on the wiki or a thread? 19:11 thd slef: Is there any reason not to have notes for the benefit of those who would not take the time to read the log? 19:11 GeorgeSue Happy New Year everyone: 19:11 jransom there are gaps too 19:11 Ropuch Heloo everybody 19:11 jransom the whole thing is to bedecided 19:11 jransom unknown 19:10 slef What do the yellow bits mean? To be decided? 19:10 jransom I think on the Kete either as a comment or else in the body of the entry. its a wiki 19:10 jransom I would like to take the HLT Trustees a starting point at the end of january 19:09 nengard where should we send suggestions/edits to? 19:09 jransom It is a starting point only. 19:09 jransom Bob has kindly helped us by writing a starting point for the rules of the koha subcommittee of hlt. 19:08 nengard Report on forming HLT Koha foundation committee. (First draft of rules: http://kete.library.org.nz/site/documents/show/46-rules-for-koha-subcommittee-of-hlt) 19:08 chris yeah i think write up the minutes from the log after the meeting might be best 19:08 nengard okey dokey - then our first agenda item 19:08 slef I noticed the last meeting was not noted - maybe it's a good idea not to compile short notes until some dust has settled. 19:07 chris its being logged, so its more a volunteer to write it up from the logs 19:07 nengard volunteers to take notes? 19:07 schuster David Schuster - Plano ISD 19:06 magnusenger Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway 19:06 hdl_laptop Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre 19:06 Nate Nate Curulla ByWater Solutions 19:06 nengard who will be taking notes? 19:06 nengard today's agenda can be found online at: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:meetingnotes10jan05 19:06 wizzyrea Liz Rea NEKLS 19:06 kyle Kyle Hall, Crawford County Federated Library System, Meadville, PA 19:05 chilts Andrew Chilton, Catalyst IT, NZ 19:05 collum Garry Collum, Kenton County Public Library, KY 19:05 sekjal Ian Walls, NYU Health Sciences Libraries 19:05 rhcl Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library, St. Joseph, MO 19:05 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 19:05 Colin Colin Campbell PTFS Europe 19:05 chris Chris Cormack, Catalyst, NZ 19:04 brendan Brendan Gallagher, ByWater Solutions 19:04 jransom Joann Ransom. HLT, NZ. 19:04 owen Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library 19:04 jwagner Jane Wagner, PTFS 19:04 jdavidb J. David Bavousett, PTFS 19:04 slef MJ Ray, member of software.coop 19:04 nengard Nicole C. Engard, ByWater 19:04 nengard and we should all start with introductions 19:04 slef heh, first person to ask 19:04 jdavidb That's three. you're drafted. 19:04 chris yep, first one to ask, runs the meeting, its the rule 19:04 nengard okay so - i call this meeting to order 19:04 nengard LOL 19:04 thd Is it not you nengard? 19:04 * jdavidb nominates nengard. 19:04 jransom nominates Nicole 19:03 nengard who's running this meeting? :) 19:03 thd jransom: just making idle comment about what might actually be the best term to use by legal conventions. 19:03 chris :) 19:02 jransom I would appreciate lots of brains and unput to this :) 19:02 jransom thd: this is absolutely the first cut and I havn't read it thoroughly yet either. Welcome all comments and dicussion. I would prefer them on the Kete site as either added comments or in the body of the wiki article. 19:02 * jdavidb feeds thd's last back through his English language parser again. 19:01 chris i think calling thigns what they are, trademarks, copyright etc is much more honest 19:00 chris yeah, i hate the term IP too 19:00 jransom done 19:00 chris back 19:00 thd That wording 'intellectual property' gives rise to consternation from Richard Stallman where such 'property' is of a sufficiently different kind that he thinks the common word property is misapplied in referring to it collectively. 18:57 nengard jransom can you add that link to the meeting page 18:55 jransom alrighty. I have put it on our Kete: http://kete.library.org.nz/documents/0000/0000/0046/Koha_Committee_Rules_Jan10.pdf 18:55 hdl_laptop hi jransom 18:55 thd ... the original name for the upload apparently cannot be overwritten without the assistance of the site administrator. 18:54 thd jransom: a caution from recent experience of nengard. Uploading documents can go wrong where a PDF is not written correctly and then will not open directly in the web browser for many users. Trying again and making a new link to the successful attempt will fix the issue. 18:51 nengard just so long as we can find a link to it 18:51 nengard jransom it should be a new page on the wiki - and/or on the kete 18:50 jransom Thd: I have the first draft of rules for Koha foundation here. is it posssible to load them onto this wiki or stick them somewhere else, like the Trust's Kete? 18:50 thd jransom: The simple way may be to find the general link from the main page by searching for meetings within the page at http://wiki.koha.org 18:48 thd jransom: any higher point in the hierarchy such as en:events should have links to what is below 18:48 jransom t. I had a poke around but couldn't find them (must still be in holiday mode :) 18:47 thd jransom: meetings have their own namespace so that you can go to en:events:meetings:irc_meetings and find them all 18:45 thd http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:meetingnotes10jan05 18:45 jransom Can someplease point me to the agenda for the meeting 18:44 jransom Morning all. 18:30 * chris_n may be a few minutes late to the meeting 18:12 chris but will try to get to the office before 8am 18:12 chris i may be a little late to the meeting 18:11 * chris is gonna try to catch an early bus 17:24 nengard i love hearing i'm not crazy :) 17:24 nengard ahhh :) 17:24 Colin nengard: Stage one done.. I now display claims where there's no one to claim to 17:23 nengard colin++ :) 17:15 jdavidb colin++ 17:13 Colin Possible.. leave it with me and I'll try and duplicate it (and maybe even fix it!!) 17:10 nengard is it possible that I see that row because I have subscriptions without suppliers? something that should be allowed - the page warns you that you won't be able to claim if you don't enter a vendor - so those subscriptions shouldn't show at all on that page 17:09 nengard Colin - nada - nothing - zilch :) 17:01 Colin if you select the blank line which supplier is retrieved? 17:01 nengard anyone have the issue i mentioned in 3945? 17:00 nengard strange - it's always been an issue for me - and i've installed new dbs - like this one 17:00 Colin nengard: Works for me and on customer sites 16:58 nengard Colin - re: bug 3945 -- are you saying that it works for you? 16:57 jdavidb okies. 16:53 rhcl jdavidb: just a sec 16:51 jdavidb rhcl: pong? 16:44 brendan nengard++ 16:44 brendan agreed paul_p 16:43 paul_p nengard++ 16:34 nengard i think I'm going to set the publication date to the 15th of each month 16:32 nengard thanks to all who have emailed me so far - we're at 6 items in the newsletter!! woo hoo!! 16:23 rhcl rog 16:22 * liz-nekls is in a meetiing :( 16:22 liz-nekls I saw your message rhcl, i'll have to think about it 16:20 rhcl liz liz, are you there? 16:20 owen Hey liz-nekls, rhcl was lookin' for you 16:09 munin rhcl: jdavidb was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 1 minute, and 21 seconds ago: <jdavidb> Owen! ew! There's a great huge car-sized pile of that stuff in the grass next to my bus stop, still. 16:09 rhcl @seen jdavidb 16:04 rhcl oops wizzyrea 16:04 rhcl ping wizyrea 16:02 munin hdl_laptop: pianohacker was last seen in #koha 16 hours, 2 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <pianohacker> Off to work on college applications, have a great evening, everybody 16:02 hdl_laptop @seen pianohacker 15:45 nengard they can be as short as 2 lines - if you have something to share with the koha world, please email me :) 15:45 nengard site set up for koha newsletter - now i just need some articles to include :) 15:27 munin moodaepo: The current temperature in MSU Physics Dept, Mankato, Minnesota is -24.4�C (9:25 AM CST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: -29.0�C. Windchill: -24.0�C. Pressure: 30.39 in 1029.0 hPa (Steady). 15:27 moodaepo @wunder 56001 15:08 magnusenger cool! (pun intended...) 15:08 owen magnusenger: True. You'll have to share the prize, like a Nobel prize for bad weather. 15:07 magnusenger hehe - but we've got windchill of -19 15:07 jdavidb Owen! ew! There's a great huge car-sized pile of that stuff in the grass next to my bus stop, still. 15:07 owen The bad weather prize is a bronze statuette in the shape of that dirty ice that builds up in back of your tire when you drive in the snow. 15:06 liz-nekls ok, now i really must get up and get the wee one ready for playtime and get into work. 15:06 liz-nekls Ooh, do I win a bad weather prize? 15:06 owen there you go liz-nekls, you're colder than Norway! 15:05 munin magnusenger: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -10.0�C (3:20 PM CET on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: -15.0�C. Windchill: -19.0�C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady). 15:05 magnusenger @wunder bodo, norway 15:05 jdavidb 8 inches is the Magic Number here, too. (That's the height above ground of the electrified third rail on the Metro. 8" triggers the shutdown of all aboveground segments, which would strand me at home, pretty-much. 15:04 owen 8 inches would be a snowpocalypse around here 15:03 liz-nekls it's not DC snowpocalypse, but it's enough 15:03 liz-nekls we've got like 8 inches on the ground, it's the most I can remember in a loooong time 15:03 liz-nekls owen: hahahaha 15:02 jdavidb jwagner wondered out loud why I wasn't wearing a heavier coat this morning. The answer: because we are not in Kansas. 15:02 owen liz-nekls: Witness the first snow I experienced here after I moved here in high school: There was an inch or less on the ground and I dutifully trudged to the bus stop only to be told school had been canceled. 15:02 jdavidb Balmy here, by comparison. 15:01 munin jdavidb: The current temperature in Flower Valley, Rockville, Maryland is -1.6�C (9:53 AM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 56%. Dew Point: -9.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 29.63 in 1003.3 hPa (Steady). 15:01 jdavidb @wunder 20852 15:01 liz-nekls *sob* 15:01 owen liz-nekls: Sorry to break it to you, but at least compared to this part of Ohio Kansas weather is almost always worse. 14:59 liz-nekls that's just not right 14:59 liz-nekls how can it be colder here than ohio?! 14:59 munin liz-nekls: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is -13.1�C (8:57 AM CST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: -15.0�C. Windchill: -13.0�C. Pressure: 30.48 in 1032.1 hPa (Rising). 14:59 liz-nekls @wunder 66047 14:47 owen Nice. I wish our windchill was higher than the air temperature! 14:44 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 5.5�C (6:38 AM PST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 1.0�C. Windchill: 6.0�C. Pressure: 30.07 in 1018.2 hPa (Rising). 14:44 brendan @wunder 93117 14:28 Colin There's plenty of cleaning to do 14:21 nengard cleaning is a great way to start the new year 14:19 paul_p Colin: thanks for your cleaning patches ! 14:18 munin owen: The current temperature in Athens, Ohio is -8.0�C (8:54 AM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 79%. Dew Point: -12.0�C. Windchill: -15.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady). 14:18 owen @wunder 45701 14:13 schuster Thanks same to you! It's started off with me finally getting an old laptop running debian lenny last night about 11:30 pm Finally! agh. 14:12 paul_p happy new year schuster ! 14:01 schuster wizzyrea you here? 13:40 munin jwagner: The current temperature in Langley Fork Park, McLean, Virginia is -3.2�C (8:38 AM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: -9.0�C. Windchill: -3.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013.1 hPa (Steady). 13:40 jwagner @wunder 20817 13:15 nengard if you're on LinkedIn - I added KohaCon as an event you can mark your interest in: http://events.linkedin.com/KohaCon-2010/pub/195161 13:10 nengard :) 13:09 slef we also have no employees, but we're a partnership, so that's OK 13:08 slef [off] software.coop has not grown as fast, but we have no exes yet. 13:08 paul_p jdavidb: true. not that good for their customers, for sure. 13:08 nengard [off] jdavidb unfortunatly LL isn't telling customers that - I had a new customer of ours (bywater) tell me that LL said they had 29 employees 13:07 jdavidb [off] There are more members of the LL Exes Association than there are LLers. Not good, for a company so young, I would think. 13:07 nengard Congrats to Marc!! 13:07 gmcharlt at LL, I mean 13:06 paul_p gmcharlt: ??? 13:06 paul_p good morning gmcharlt 13:06 gmcharlt not many left 13:06 gmcharlt good morning 13:06 jdavidb I did see that, Paul. 13:05 paul_p jdavidb (& others) : did you see that Marc Roberson has left LL ? 13:05 jdavidb morning, paul_p! :)\ 13:05 jwagner Bonjour paul_p 13:05 paul_p morning nengard & jwagner & jdavidb 12:58 * jwagner heads off to get tea 12:58 jwagner A cup of caffiene might be a good place.... 12:57 nengard trying to decide where to start :) 12:56 jdavidb Hi, nengard! :) 12:56 nengard morning all 09:42 Kivutar :) 09:36 chris paul_p: yes i did 09:36 chris Kivutar: magnusenger is mostly right, C4 was a working name, C4 being twice as good ... or it will explode (c4 being the name of a explosive) 09:35 paul_p hi chris. did you see marc roberson has a new position ? 09:34 chris back now 09:26 * magnusenger added a link to http://translate.koha.org/ - better than nothing... 09:23 magnusenger hm, the bit about translations further down on that page seems somewhat out of date... 09:22 magnusenger ah, here it is: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=faq#behind_the_scenesmodules_config_and_so_on 09:20 magnusenger something about HLTs old system being called C2, so someone thought naming the new system C4 would make it twice as good, i think? i may be remembering this wrong... 09:15 Kivutar why is C4 named C4? 09:09 slef oh well, I'll go do other stuff for a while :-) 09:08 slef I was delayed by pouring coffee over a neighbouring office 09:07 Colin I got here before I did too 09:07 slef thanks 09:07 slef not opened that mailbox yet 09:07 Colin 19:00 Chris has sent out a correction email 09:06 slef is there a meeting about now, or am I confused? 08:48 Ropuch Ypu should have some mysql database installed on your win box 08:48 Ropuch CGI308: hym, it would be easier if you had Koha installed on linux, if it's windows I can only guess 08:46 paul_p chris: about ? 08:45 CGI308 how? technically im a moron with this thing 08:43 Ropuch You need to dump your database into file 08:43 CGI308 i have a query, i install a fresyh koha server then i want to transfer the old database of our previous koha, what file im going to copy from the old koha server? im using the koha for windows 08:39 CGI308 hello, anyone? 07:43 liz-nekls but we have really awesome librarians in our state, i think. For the most part they really "get" that the library in a small town is really a gathering place for the community 07:42 liz-nekls yea, we struggle with that here as well 07:41 Ropuch Problem is: in smaller libraries there's often people without proper education (resources and will) to make library a place where people like to be, in university libraries there is "they come to us anyway" thinking 07:40 liz-nekls I think NEKLS owns that book... 07:40 Ropuch I've ordered "Social software in libraries" - will post a rewiev whet it comes 07:37 liz-nekls training for librarians re: social technologies 07:37 Ropuch Instead of making and twitter account and just tweet, they would rather make a "From incunabule to tweeter" conference ;> 07:37 liz-nekls oh man, you might be interested in this: http://www.23thingskansas.org 07:35 Ropuch I remeber having an argue in last month with some "Big Librarian Fishes" about using IM and microbloging in libraries 07:33 Ropuch Well, I don't regret becoming librarian, but honestly our librarianship and information scienece studies focus too much on history 07:33 * liz-nekls conjures her best Gandalf and shouts "SILENCE!" 07:32 liz-nekls confession: I don't have a library degree -- mostly because I didn't/don't feel they would teach me what I want to know. At least not the schools near me. 07:31 * Ropuch pass the master shushing bel to liz-nekls 07:31 Ropuch Damn 07:30 liz-nekls the "if you do that again you'll never have cookies again" look 07:30 liz-nekls I have a killer "mom look" 07:30 Ropuch hehe 07:30 liz-nekls j/k lol 07:30 liz-nekls ooh, I aced shushing 07:29 Ropuch liz-nekls: we're supposed to have exams on drinking coffe and saying "Shh, quiet" techniques 07:27 Ropuch What a relief ;> 07:27 liz-nekls it may be fairly universal :D 07:24 magnusenger not too different from norway, then... 07:22 liz-nekls oh, yea, there's a conception in the states that all librarians do is sit in the library and read books 07:21 Ropuch Or "you neeed to graduate to be librarian? And what are you doijng during study - meomorizng location of the books?" 07:21 Ropuch I don't really know how are the things going in other countries, but in Poland being librarian is almost equal to some mental illnes: payments are the lowest, there's no respect associated with the job (librarian? laZy fat ass who could not get a normal job, just sitting here, drinking coffee all day) 07:20 chris and now i must go do the dishes :) 07:20 chris its the exceptions to the exceptions of the exceptions 07:18 chris its the business logic that makes it hard, not the db structure :-) 07:17 chris its just a database ... with insane rules 07:16 chris like i said at kohacon in texas 07:15 Ropuch :) 07:15 Ropuch It's not me who you want to convince 07:15 liz-nekls silly guys. 07:15 liz-nekls all in one database 07:15 liz-nekls how about 30 libraries with individual rules and 1k interlibrary loans a day? 07:14 Ropuch "C'mmon, what is this all about, library software, 4 tables and here we go" 07:14 liz-nekls ^.^ 07:14 liz-nekls "it's just a database, right?" 07:14 Ropuch when I was speaking about koha on Open Solaris conf, I talked to some no-library relted IT guys 07:13 liz-nekls lordy that's the understatement of the century lol 07:13 Ropuch Well, fresh ideas are good, but most people are not aware that full featured, MARC compliant ILS is quite complex software 07:11 chris we certainly would have built on an existing one if one existed when Koha started 07:11 chris the ones who have been around a while would much rather find an existing piece of software to work on :) 07:10 chris its usually how you spot a developer new to free software :-) 07:10 chris there is always the temptation for people want to start again 07:09 Ropuch I hoped that some of 'let's start yet another ils-wannabe piece of software' people will get interested in Koha (and lend me hand with translation), but thre's no response till now 07:06 chris my saved search found it 07:06 chris yes 07:06 Ropuch On polish forum? ;> 07:06 Ropuch Oh 07:02 chris i saw an email from you the other day ropuch, all talking about someone wanting to make a new library system? google translate did an ok job, I think you answered them well :-) 07:00 Ropuch Morning chris 06:59 chris moring europe 06:53 Ropuch Morning #koha 05:42 schuster asking again - hope someone is here - what command to use to pull the 3.2 release for alpha testing. 05:05 liz-nekls never mind mind! I got it :D 04:47 liz-nekls the appending I think I get but how to get the first 8 lines 04:47 liz-nekls say I have a file, 9 lines, and I want to get 8 of those lines and append some more text in a bash script 04:46 liz-nekls this is kind of a silly non-koha question 03:51 munin Amit: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 10.0�C (9:00 AM IST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Fog. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Windchill: 8.0�C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Rising). 03:51 Amit @wunder New Delhi 03:51 liz-nekls yea, it's winter in the arctic lol 03:51 liz-nekls oh snap 03:51 brendan sorry gotcha beat there 03:51 munin Amit: The current temperature in Dehradun, India is 8.0�C (8:30 AM IST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Heavy Fog. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 8.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa. 03:51 Amit @wunder Dehradun, India 03:51 brendan gotta beat liz-nekls 03:50 munin brendan: The current temperature in Speedway, North Pole, Alaska is -26.7�C (6:46 PM AKST on January 04, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: -999%. Dew Point: -67.0�C. Windchill: -27.0�C. Pressure: 30.03 in 1016.8 hPa (Steady). 03:50 brendan @wunder north pole, alaska 03:50 munin Amit: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 18.0�C (8:30 AM IST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. 03:50 Amit @wunder Bangalore india 03:42 chris feels like i just got here 03:42 chris is it hometime already? 03:42 liz-nekls "down there" meaning both NZ and antarctica 03:41 * chilts & 03:41 chilts on that note, time for me to brave windy Wellington 03:41 chilts been terrible 03:41 chilts summer started this morning I think, so yeah, you're just right :) 03:41 chilts heh lol even more :) 03:41 liz-nekls though I guess it's summer down there 03:40 liz-nekls lol yea 03:40 chilts hope you're ok :) 03:40 chilts lol 03:40 * liz-nekls faints 03:40 liz-nekls oh jesus 03:40 liz-nekls ah there you go 03:40 chris you are colder than antartica 03:40 chilts nice :) 03:40 chris got it 03:40 munin liz-nekls: Error: No such location could be found. 03:40 liz-nekls @wunder south pole, antarcctica 03:40 munin chris: The current temperature in McMurdo, Antarctica is -1.0�C (4:00 PM NZDT on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: -6.0�C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Falling). 03:40 munin chilts: Error: No such location could be found. 03:40 chris @wunder mcmurdo sound, antartica 03:40 chilts @wunder antarctica 03:40 munin liz-nekls: Error: No such location could be found. 03:39 liz-nekls @wunder scott base, antarctica 03:39 munin chris: Error: No such location could be found. 03:39 chris @wunder macmurdo, antartica 03:39 munin chris: Error: No such location could be found. 03:39 chris @wunder scott base, antartica 03:39 liz-nekls seriously, it's freeze your fat off cold 03:39 chris when it gets past -10, its just mental 03:39 liz-nekls it's effing freezing here 03:39 brendan wow that's too cold 03:39 liz-nekls yesss 03:39 liz-nekls typing fail 03:38 munin liz-nekls: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is -14.7�C (9:36 PM CST on January 04, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 79%. Dew Point: -18.0�C. Windchill: -15.0�C. Pressure: 30.50 in 1032.7 hPa (Falling). 03:38 liz-nekls @wunder 66047 03:38 munin liz-nekls: Error: No such location could be found. 03:38 liz-nekls @wunder 66057 03:35 brendan blew me outta the water 03:35 chris gotcha brendan :) 03:34 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 20.0�C (4:00 PM NZDT on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: 7.0�C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Falling). 03:34 chris @wunder wellington, nz 03:32 brendan Hi Amit 03:32 Amit hi brendan, chris 03:21 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 10.9�C (7:19 PM PST on January 04, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 61%. Dew Point: 4.0�C. Pressure: 30.03 in 1016.8 hPa (Steady). 03:21 brendan @wunder 93117 01:46 munin rhcl_home: kyle was last seen in #koha 4 weeks, 4 days, 5 hours, 39 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <kyle> A late thought, instead of having a version number battle, why not move to a date based versioning system like Ubuntu? Koha 9.12? 01:46 rhcl_home @seen kyle 01:34 munin rhcl_home: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 4 hours, 2 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> tomorrow :P 01:34 rhcl_home @seen wizzyrea 01:34 rhcl_home ping wizzyrea 01:18 ricardo Sleep time. Take care everyone! :) 00:36 rhcl ping wizzyrea