Time Nick Message 00:26 chris excellent russ 00:37 chris yeah vettori is playing well 01:10 chris interesting i was searching the liblime site, to see if they had put up when they plan to release their LLEK code 01:10 chris http://www.liblime.com/search?SearchableText=release 01:11 chris found http://www.liblime.com/products/koha/liblime-enterprise-koha/llek-release-notes/?searchterm=release 01:12 pianohacker That's very interesting 01:13 chris Changes from June 1 Update (3.01.00.032) to LibLime Enterprise Koha build 4.0000000 01:14 pianohacker Bleh, I might be helping with some training of a local consortium that has chosen LEK, so I'd better study up... 01:14 pianohacker At least now we know what happened to the enhanced fines module 01:14 chris train them in asking for it to be released :-) 01:14 chris yeah 01:14 chris siloed 01:15 chris its kinda naff they use their own bug tracker 01:15 chris so people who fixed the bugs get no credit 01:15 pianohacker also very siloed 01:15 chris yep 01:15 pianohacker I've used the internal bugzilla, but it had two-digit bug numbers in those days, and was mainly used for support stuff 01:16 pianohacker evidently that's changed 01:16 chris when i was there we used rt 01:16 chris but we linked to koha bug numbers 01:20 chris i wonder if there is a release now there are release notes 01:23 BuchBebbi I wish you a god night (or a sunny dax if you are at the other side of the earth :-) 01:24 chris good night :) 01:24 bebbi thx 01:27 chris nope not anywhere i can find .. ah well, we live in hope 01:36 pianohacker If you had to search to find it, it's probably meant for internal use 01:36 chris well i wasnt even looking for it 01:36 chris was just seeing if they had put up anything about releases 01:36 chris but its not behind auth, so it will get in the google 01:44 pianohacker This is going to be very interesting to integrate 01:44 chris if we ever get the chance 01:44 pianohacker Because taken as a whole, this touches almost all of C4 and a good portion of cgi-bin 01:44 chris the longer they with hold it, the harder it gets 01:44 chris yeah 01:45 chris and without a git repo, which you and i both know they have 01:45 chris but just a tarball of the files, manually integrating .. when they branched off koha 30 odd db edits and who knows how many patches ago 01:45 chris is gonna be a nightmare 01:45 chris thats why they invented version control 01:47 pianohacker More interestingly, they seem to be using a separate version numbering 01:47 chris yup 01:49 chris imagine how hard it will be 01:49 chris when we change to TT 02:01 pianohacker bye 02:26 chris @wunder sydney australia 02:26 munin chris: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 26.0�C (1:00 PM EST on November 25, 2009). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 17.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady). 03:21 Amit hi brendan, chris, chris_n2 03:21 Amit good morning #koha 03:21 chris hi Amit 03:24 brendan hello amit 04:59 elpid101 hello everyone, i'm new to koha and i setup one, the problem is that the MARC records is not present or cannot be found in the catalouge.,, whenever i will querry in the catalouge 05:00 elpid101 something problem with my koha or just a little setup.. :) 06:17 chris evening 06:18 nicomo morning 06:25 |Lupin| hey there 06:31 |Lupin| till soon 06:44 chris http://www.thehindu.com/2009/11/25/stories/2009112559940300.htm 07:17 Ropuch Good morning 07:23 greenmang0 hello 07:31 Amit hi nicomo 09:13 paul_p @seen gmcharlt 09:13 munin paul_p: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 15 hours, 46 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> jwagner: yes, first Wednesday of each month is the regular meeting 09:41 greenmang0 can anybody help me with this problem? if i upload a pdf in koha and search for a word written in that pdf... koha should show me the related pdf... is it possible.. if yes... how? 09:42 chris no 09:43 chris koha is a library management system, not a digital library, to do things like that you will want something like dspace, greenstone, fedora/fez, kete etc 09:45 greenmang0 chris: ok... 09:45 greenmang0 chris: i hope it has nothing to do with full text search..... ? 09:45 greenmang0 :S 09:46 chris koha doesnt search documents 09:46 chris it searches metadata about documents 09:47 chris if you want to search documents you want a digital library system, you can combine one with koha, but you will have to do some work to do that 09:47 greenmang0 chris: can you tell me how to combine? and what work i will have to do? 09:48 chris nope, and i dont know 09:48 chris it would depend entirely on what you used as a digital library system 09:49 greenmang0 chris: because koha's feature list says koha can be used as a digital library system 09:49 greenmang0 chris; http://koha.org/about/features 09:50 chris yeah you can do what Lupin has done and catalogue digital resources with it 09:50 chris but its not searching the document, just the data about the document 09:50 chris if you want to index the document, you need something else to do that 09:52 hdl hi chris 09:52 chris hi hdl 09:53 chris id edit that page on the koha.org site, it has some out of date info on it, but i cant 10:22 greenmang0 chris: what do you mean by "do something else" ? if possible i can try it out 10:31 bebbi Hello world :-) 10:39 indradg greenmang0, use stuff like plucene and hack up a bunch of custom .pm modules or you may use Namazu have it working as a CGI and then again go the custom perl module way 10:56 greenmang0 indradg: Perl - The only language that looks the same before and after RSA encryption. - Keith Bostic. 10:56 greenmang0 :D 11:00 indradg greenmang0, then plucene perhaps... based around the Lucene API (the stuff used by DSpace for full-text indexing) 11:01 greenmang0 indradg: ok... :) 13:14 jdavidb hdl: ping? 13:15 hdl jdavidb: ? 13:15 hdl hi 13:15 hdl how are you ? 13:16 jdavidb howdy. I'm well. I got your note, and the conversation with Jane. I've replied, but long-and-short is that I'll see about getting this out and available over the holiday weekend. Will that be soon enough to be of use to you? 13:17 Nate good morning everyone 13:17 jdavidb howdy, Nate. 13:18 Nate hiya jdavidb 13:26 |Lupin| hi again all :) 13:28 chris_n g'morning 13:28 |Lupin| hi chris_n 13:29 |Lupin| I was wonderng 13:29 |Lupin| is there a way to have most recently added records (or items) displayed on opac start page ? 13:33 Ropuch http://www.myacpl.org/koha/?p=74 13:34 owen "Check that it's real Koha and that you can download the exact same source to run on your own server if you want, though." 13:34 owen slef++ 13:35 Ropuch Hi owen 13:42 jdavidb Hm...cfouts said in email that git.koha.org was healthy again, but I'm not able to get there this morning. Anyone else having the same trouble? 13:43 nengard jdavidb me neither 13:43 nengard :( 13:43 jdavidb :( 13:45 |Lupin| Ropuch: thanks a lot 13:45 |Lupin| Ropuch: perhaps a bit to complex to set-up, and not exactly what we would need... 13:46 |Lupin| ON our old server the 20 most recent records were displayed on the start page, I think our librarian is missing this feature 13:46 Ropuch |Lupin|: np, actually displaying last added records should be much easier 13:46 nengard I need help - what do I do on Debian if I can't remember my MySQL login info? can I create a new user? or recover that info in any way? 13:46 Ropuch nengard: do you have root acces to mysql? 13:46 nengard yes 13:47 nengard DUH!! 13:47 nengard that's the username - ROOT :) hehe 13:47 jdavidb you can log in as root, and just reset it. If you can't log in as root, there are ways to recover that. 13:47 nengard I'm so so so jetlagged and fuzzy 13:47 |Lupin| nengard: then grant should work... the thing that is documented in INSTA...debian in koha sources I think 13:47 Ropuch UPDATE mysql.user SET Password=PASSWORD('newpass') WHERE User='bob' AND Host='%.loc.gov'; 13:47 Ropuch FLUSH PRIVILEGES; 13:47 Ropuch (from mysql documentation) 13:48 |Lupin| grant all on *.* to user nengard identified by password('newpassword)'); 13:48 |Lupin| something like this 13:48 |Lupin| (the exact thing is in the mentionned file) 13:49 |Lupin| k, have to go again, till soon all 13:49 |Lupin| bye 13:51 magnusenger nengard: if it's the username/password Koha uses you can look in /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml (on a standard install) 13:53 nengard thanks magnusenger, it wasn't - it was one I set on the server and it was the username I was using wrong - I was trying my koha user instead of root :) 13:54 magnusenger nengard: ah... ;-) 15:19 brendan good morning 15:20 nengard howdy 15:45 wizzyrea_ mornin peps 15:48 chris_n wizzyrea_: ate the rest of the pesto with wild goose last evening... they made a super good combination 15:49 chris_n fwiw: git.koha.org is back up... again 16:08 nengard can i just say - documenting frameworks sucks - and i keep skipping around and editing other manual pieces instead of finishing it ;) 16:10 chris_n lol 16:10 chris_n nengard: the new documentation looks nice in yelp 16:10 nengard in yelp? 16:10 wizzyrea_ chris_n: wild goose! 16:11 wizzyrea_ I so should have proposed goose for thanksgiving 16:11 chris_n wizzyrea_: canadian to be exact :-) 16:11 wizzyrea_ aw, I drive past a flock of those every day 16:11 chris_n taken just outside my house 16:11 wizzyrea_ hehe wow! 16:12 chris_n btw, had a cauliflower the other day that had to be a good 14" across the head 16:14 chris_n nengard: yelp is the help client in gnome 16:14 nengard ah - it's also a consume review site - so i was confused :) 16:15 chris_n nengard: yelp file:///home/nobodyshere/kohadocs/en/koha3-2manual.xml 16:24 wizzyrea_ bleh, I'm doing something wrong here: 16:24 wizzyrea_ SELECT borrowers.cardnumber, borrowers.surname, borrowers.firstname, borrowers.branchcode WHERE borrowers.cardnumber LIKE "1003008003%" AND borrowers.branchcode == "linwood" 16:25 wizzyrea_ what I need to know is all of the cardnumbers above that 100300800% range that are in linwood 16:25 wizzyrea_ i tried with single quotes 16:27 jdavidb use = instead of ==. 16:27 wizzyrea_ I tried that too :( 16:28 jdavidb I would word it thus: 16:28 jdavidb SELECT cardnumber,surname,firstname,branchcode FROM borrowers WHERE cardnumber LIKE "1003008003%" AND branchcode="LINWOOD". 16:28 jdavidb Probably, your branchcodes are all-caps, and the SELECT is case-sensitive. 16:29 wizzyrea_ I did it that way the first time, no results, and I know there *should* be results 16:30 jdavidb take out each half of the AND clause, to check each part independently? 16:31 jdavidb WHERE cardnumber LIKE "1003008003%" and then WHERE branchcode="LINWOOD" 16:31 wizzyrea_ yea, that's where I'm headed. Blerg. One should not think this hard the day before thanksgiving 16:31 jdavidb aw.. 16:31 wizzyrea_ :) 16:35 wizzyrea_ yea, it doesn't want to combine those two things for whatever reason 16:35 wizzyrea_ it just refuses 16:35 wizzyrea_ I can get them independently 16:36 nengard okay - frameworks docs started - probably needs some work - but it's a start :) http://git.biblibre.com/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=kohadocs;a=commit;h=70cb8f6957bab6eff28dcb88ee5f59c51bea8f5e 16:38 jdavidb might try some parentheses, wizzyrea_: WHERE (cardnumber LIKE "foo" ) AND (branchcode="blah") couldn't hoit. 16:44 wizzyrea_ well I must have had an extra space or something, now it works 16:44 wizzyrea_ i'm fuddled. Thanks jdavidb for looking 16:44 jdavidb woot! 16:44 jdavidb you're welcome. :) 17:03 chris_n arggg! 17:03 chris_n the cabinet installer just broke the water supply line underneath the house :-( 17:03 wizzyrea_ OMG! That sucks!! 17:04 chris_n yeah, the crawl space is about 12" high... 17:04 * chris_n looks around for a very short plumber 17:15 wizzyrea chris_n: I don't discount at all the necessity of plumbers of all heights. I lived in a place with a very inconveniently located toilet, and you really did have to get a short, thin plumber to work on it. 17:15 owen There may be a market for toddlers with plumbing training... 17:16 * wizzyrea has a toddler... hmmm... 17:18 chris_n lol :-) 17:20 chris morning 17:25 |Lupin| hi again everybody 17:25 |Lupin| our librarian just came to me with a strange issue... 17:26 |Lupin| she can't modify a user, and I can't either 17:26 |Lupin| Koha complains that the card number is already in use. 17:26 |Lupin| Has somebody already met this problem ? 17:26 bebbi Hi |Lupin| 17:26 |Lupin| guten Abend bebbi 17:27 wizzyrea |Lupin| are you using Owen's hack to put the quick add at the top? 17:27 wizzyrea |Lupin| patron quick add, that is 17:28 bebbi Auch einen sch�nen Aben |Lupin| und viel Erfolg bei der Probleml�sung ... 17:28 |Lupin| wizzyrea: not that I know 17:28 |Lupin| wizzyrea: if it's not in master, then I think I don't use it. 17:29 |Lupin| wizzyrea: I just used the Edit link that appears besides to the user info in the member results after a search 17:29 |Lupin| bebbi: viel mal Danke. NIcht einfar. 17:30 wizzyrea |Lupin| owen's little jquery thing puts barcode/birthdate at the top of the add or edit screens, if you fill it in, it says you have a duplicate barcode when editing 17:31 |Lupin| wizzyrea: I don't have that... I'm using lynx anyway so that would not be active here, but I don't have it so I think it's a different problem 17:32 wizzyrea hrm 17:33 |Lupin| wizzyrea: which version of KOha do you have ? 17:33 wizzyrea it's older than yours, I think we have 3.01.00.34 or somesuch 17:34 wizzyrea it's some ways back off of master 17:36 |Lupin| wizzyrea: ok, but not too far, thogh... 17:37 |Lupin| wizzyrea: would you mind trying to modify something related to a member, just to see if it works for you ? 17:37 wizzyrea |Lupin| I'm curious if the koha logs say anything 17:37 |Lupin| wizzyrea: like just adding a space in an address, so something like that... 17:37 wizzyrea |Lupin| we'd have heard about it if it didn't work, our librarians are doing it every day 17:37 wizzyrea it definitely works for us :( 17:38 |Lupin| I can check the logs... 17:40 hdl |Lupin| ? Can you tell me more ? 17:42 |Lupin| wizzyrea: it doesn't like line 722 of members/memberentry.pl: my $newentry = { map { $_ => $entry->{$_} } %$entry }; 17:42 |Lupin| rather unclear to me... 17:42 |Lupin| hdl: sure I can... the error is ERROR_cardnumber 17:43 |Lupin| hi jane 17:43 jwagner hi |Lupin| 17:43 hdl hi jwagner 17:44 jwagner hi hdl 17:49 nengard Hi all -Report question - how would I query info in the Marc record? Like if I wanted to grab a list of subject headings and count how many times they're each used? 17:52 * owen Chirping crickets 17:54 nengard uh huh 17:54 nengard was scared of that 17:54 nengard come on people - you can't tell me that no customers ever asked for this .... 17:56 jwagner nengard, _I_ ask for lots of stuff like that -- the ability to dump out particular MARC fields, the ability to edit particular MARC fields, etc. etc. It just isn't real easy to do with Koha's handling of MARC records. I have plans..... 17:57 nengard hmmm 17:57 nengard i don't mind hard - i just need to see one example to try and do it for myself and my customers 18:00 jwagner You won't get one from me -- I haven't figured it out myself. Some of our MySQL experts may have, I think, but I Are No Expert. 18:01 owen I would think you'd need some kind of specialized query of Zebra 18:01 nengard why zebra - isn't the marc stored in the mysql tables? 18:02 jdavidb In one big field, yes. 18:02 jwagner It's in one big blob in biblioitems, if I remember correctly. The trick is reading that blob & extracting just what you want. 18:02 nengard k 18:03 jdavidb I've seen a few things where you can grab a control field, like if 001 starts with EBL on a bunch of records, with WHERE biblioitems.marcxml LIKE '%<controlfield tag="001">EBL%' but that is *really* gruesome. 18:04 jdavidb brute-force searches of the marcxml would be very inefficient, I should think. 18:04 chris_n nengard: I think the marc is stored as a blog in xml in biblioitems 18:04 nengard yep - found that 18:04 chris_n what jdavidb said :-) 18:04 |Lupin| someone remembers how to temporarily disable a unicity constraint in mysql, pls ? 18:05 nengard okay - so how do we pull data out of the blob to print on the screen - and on the catalogign form 18:05 nengard isn't there a query for that? or are we doing it a diff way 18:05 chris_n nengard: you could write a script using XML::Simple to do something with it perhaps 18:05 chris_n but probably not a direct SQL query 18:06 jdavidb At the hitlist level, it's coming from Zebra, mostly. When you get to the edit screen, it's being SELECTed on the biblionumber, and XML libraries are being used to chop it up for editing, then put it back together again. 18:06 jdavidb If I'm understanding it right. 18:06 nengard hmm 18:06 nengard this is not good news at all 18:07 nengard every cataloger wants data on the items they've cataloged - data about authors, subject headings, etc etc etc 18:07 jdavidb nope. It's a tremendous weakness in the data model. If you don't store it in SQL, basically, reporting Just Won't Happen 18:07 pastebot "chris_n" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "marcxml blob example" (106 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/63 18:07 chris_n nengard: ^^ 18:08 nengard chris_n yeah i have that open 18:08 nengard and i understand what jdavidb is saying - but trying to count the occurences of subject headings or authors when there can be morethan one per blob is where i'm stuck 18:10 jdavidb you would almost need a hook into zebra to do searches like that, and get back the biblionumbers of relevant records, then just slice-and-dice those. 18:10 jwagner nengard, both jdavidb and I come from Sirsi Unicorn, where you had lots of tools to be able to export and manipulate not only the item data but the MARC data itself. I used to produce massive cleanup lists for the catalogers of subject headings with typos, outdated subject headings, 856s for URL checking, etc. I _really_ miss that with Koha. 18:11 nengard so maybe we need to figure out how to fix koha so that that can be done 18:11 * jdavidb hands nengard the keys to a Maserati with no transmission. 18:11 nengard data should be stored in individual fields in a table(s) 18:11 chris_n jdavidb: lol! 18:12 jwagner That's one of my long-term dreams for Koha development. Of course, that means someone else (cough, cough) gets to do the actual work -- it's beyond me. But I know what I want it to do! 18:12 jdavidb oh, heck no, nengard. Every change to the MARC standard would require restructuring of the database tables. 18:12 nengard okay - then what do you suggest? 18:12 jwagner There are (there have to be) tools to store the MARC record itself in a table, and parse out the fields/subfields as needed. 18:13 jdavidb Storing the MARCXML not in a blob in the table, perhaps, but in a separate XML-native database, which could do that sort of searching inherently. 18:13 jwagner Then the MARC record links to the items & whatever other tables it needs to, like now on biblionumber. 18:13 jdavidb Either that, or better XML slice-and-dicing available to the reports module. (since none is available now) 18:13 chris_n nengard: jdavidb's suggestion of zebra + script is probably the best solution given the status quo 18:13 nengard my prob with the marcxml - or the way it's presented is things like the subject headings which you can't search or browse in koha in the way a cataloger would expect 18:13 nengard i don't want to just see $a - I want to see the entire subject heading - all subfields 18:13 nengard and i want to search for them that way too 18:14 nengard chris_n - I know mysql - I do not know perl or zebra - and so i'm screwed if that's the only option 18:14 * jdavidb edits nengard's last to read "...i'm screwed for now if that's..." 18:15 nengard and how long is 'for now'? 18:15 jdavidb Until someone has some serious time to hack on it. Or serious sponsorship. 18:15 nengard right - so a long long long time 18:15 nengard :( 18:15 jdavidb Not necessarily. 18:15 nengard you know something i don't know 18:15 nengard like thatyou're going ot have serious time or funding soon? 18:15 jdavidb yeah, I do. I know what needs hacking. I don't know about time or funding, no. 18:16 jwagner We've been kicking around ideas on this for months. Just a question of getting the time and funding.... 18:16 nengard yup 18:16 jdavidb My approach, rather than trash the data model, would be a re-do of the reports module, to include tools for searching Zebra and extracting and displaying MARC fields. 18:16 jdavidb Seems to me that'd be the smaller problem. 18:17 jwagner I have lots of other dreams, too, like making it easier to control what fields are indexed and displayed. 18:17 nengard better idea - that others have had - scrap zebra alltogether 18:17 nengard it's more trouble than it's worth 18:17 nengard i think it was chris and nahuel 18:17 jdavidb Handle the search part like Sirsi's seltext API, which does searches Just Like The Opac, and gives back biblionumbers. 18:18 jdavidb Wouldn't hurt my feelings to switch to some sort of native-XML database. 18:18 jwagner Fine by me -- zebra's caused me nothing but grief every time I've had to mess with it. As long as there is something better, which I think there is. 18:18 chris_n nengard: nozebra code in koha has many more problems iirc than zebra has problems 18:18 chris_n so that solution would take some major changes as well 18:19 * chris_n thinks Search.pm could also benefit from a re-factor, however 18:19 jdavidb Replacing Zebra would be major surgery. Major-major. Like, take-your-brain-out-and-put-it-another-body major. 18:19 nengard jdavidb - well that said - i know it's in the plans 18:19 nengard that's what i know :) hehe 18:20 jdavidb :) I'm glad. Zebra has a number of issues that limit its' usefulness, IMO. 18:20 nengard yup yup 18:20 jdavidb I'd like to see things modified where any arbitrary metadata format can be used, and the user can control display, indexing, everything, from inside Koha frameworks. 18:20 nengard frameworks - another area worth ranting about 18:21 jwagner Don't Get Me Started! 18:21 nengard why the heck do i have to delete each individual tag one at a time? if I want to create a brief record template it takes nearly an hour to remove all the fields i don't need 18:21 nengard i need checkboxes 18:21 |Lupin| mysql> alter table borrowers drop key cardnumber; 18:21 |Lupin| this fails with the following error: 18:22 * chris_n thinks nengard should like the labels interface if checkboxes make her happy 18:22 |Lupin| ERROR 1025 (HY000): Error on rename of './braillenet_koha/#sql-723_ef' to './braillenet_koha/borrowers' (errno: 150) 18:22 |Lupin| any idea ? :) 18:22 |Lupin| I feel dry... 18:22 jdavidb chris_n, do you think my notion of hacking on the report module is the Right Way to go at it? 18:22 nengard lol - they don't always - but it just seems stupid to have over 300 links to delete things ... ther eare more efficient options 18:22 chris_n jdavidb: that is probably the approach I would take give the way things are 18:22 nengard reports needs work too - i'm with you on that 18:23 jdavidb Use Search.pm to do the searches, so a refactor there won't break anything, then write some sort of report definition language to allow the user to snag the MARC fields. 18:23 nengard i'd love to be able to put my where clause in using the wizard - 18:23 chris_n |Lupin|: probably a foreign key or unique key problem 18:24 |Lupin| chris_n: aaaah... hmm I'd need to temporarily disable the unicity checks on cardnumbers so that I can update them... not sure how I should do... 18:24 jdavidb Boxes: Search this <box>, then output this: <box>, sorted by <box> ...user fills in the boxes, and a report jumps out. 18:24 |Lupin| maybe I can do m updates in a clever way, actually... 18:25 chris_n |Lupin|: SET FOREIGN_KEY_CHECKS=0; 18:25 chris_n |Lupin|: SET UNIQUE_KEY_CHECKS=0; 18:25 chris_n |Lupin|: and then set them back to 1 afterwards 18:25 nengard jdavidb - add - where <box> 18:26 |Lupin| chris_n: ahhh thanks ! I was pretty sure I already did such a thing but couldn't find the magical lines... thanks !! 18:26 fredericd nengard: Concerning framework editing, since you're a SQL wizard, just do it direcly in MySQL. With marc_tag_structure and marc_subfield_structure tables... 18:26 fredericd can't agree more on your marcxml reporting discussion... 18:26 fredericd even if I'm not sure Zebra is so bad... 18:26 nengard fredericd - yes I can do that - but the librarians I train can't - so they sit there for hours clicking delete 18:27 nengard we need to design for the librarians - not the sql experts 18:27 |Lupin| chris_n: ERROR 1062 (23000): Duplicate entry '3' for key 'cardnumber' 18:27 |Lupin| (although it has been disabled... 18:28 fredericd so it's just a matter of improving UI: not very invoicable 18:28 |Lupin| (althogh the checks have been disabled, I mean) 18:28 jwagner What I'd like is one table that is the complete MARC standard -- 000 through 999. Then make the frameworks select fields to display & edit from the standard as needed (for books, serials, whatever). But there's only one underlying MARC, which will make it easier to maintain when LC makes changes. 18:28 chris_n |Lupin|: I'm not sure there 18:29 |Lupin| chris_n: ok, np, I'll see if I can do my updates in a way that aways respects the constraints... 18:30 chris_n jwagner: so various frameworks essentially become simple "filters" through which one views the standard 18:30 chris_n nice solution 18:30 chris_n |Lupin|: you did disable both foreign key and unique key checks? 18:30 jwagner After suffering through years of updating 12-15 format policies in Unicorn every time there was a change to the MARC standard (Unicorn also has them separate), believe me I'll do anything to simplify the frameworks! 18:31 chris_n simplification++ 18:31 chris_n wb paul_p 18:31 jdavidb Better quit talking about paul_p..he's here! 18:31 jwagner As much as I used to complain about Unicorn, though, I have to admit that it did do a LOT of things right. I want to steal, er, adapt some of those for Koha. 18:32 paul_p sorry, but not really here : just checking my gmail calendar for a meeting with a teacher of my 1st son. 18:33 chris_n jdavidb: ok we can go back to talking about paul_p since he's not really here ;-) 18:33 fredericd salut Paul ! 18:33 jdavidb okay. 18:33 jwagner Pay no attention to that man behind the alias.... 18:34 * chris_n wishes he could think code and it appear in vim 18:34 chris_n things would go a lot faster 18:34 jwagner I dream in code sometimes. Does that work too? 18:35 chris_n that's a step in the right direction 18:36 jwagner But I can think of more exciting things to dream about :-( 18:36 chris_n heh 18:38 jdavidb chris_n: for the searching bit, what if you created a variation of C4::Search::SimpleSearch to return biblionumbers instead of MARC results? It can take a CCL query as input, which is what you'd want the user putting in the box. 18:39 chris the thing that we have to deal with 18:39 chris that others simply dont bother with 18:39 chris is the fact we deal with more than just MARC21 18:39 chris whatever you do cannot break what is a fundamentally cool feature of Koha 18:40 jdavidb chris: yep. That's why I have this mad dream of using some mechanism to allow any arbitrary metadata form--any of the MARCish ones, or DC, or MODS, whatever you can describe in an XML DTD. 18:40 chris yep 18:40 chris_n chris: will the cleanup of circulation include some cleanup of C4::Search? 18:41 chris C4::Search is on the list to be refactored/rewritten for 3.4 18:41 chris its about 2000 lines too long for a start 18:41 |Lupin| when a member is modified from within staff client, is it's password also modified ? 18:41 |Lupin| I'm asking because there is some value in the password field so I hope modifying user info does not alter the password ? 18:41 chris |Lupin|: no, only when you modify it 18:41 jwagner It shouldn't be unless you specifically edit the password field. 18:42 chris but letting the reports talk to the xml would be good too 18:43 |Lupin| jwagner: well, when I go from field to field I can see there is some value there but perhaps it is ignored... I don't understand how that could be achieved, though 18:43 chris postgres has an xml datatype 18:43 chris_n chris: I was wondering about that 18:44 chris and then by using xpath and views 18:44 chris you can search/report over it 18:44 chris materialised views 18:44 chris make the db do the work for ya 18:45 chris_n yup, very cool xml functions there 18:45 chris we need a hackfest 18:45 chris_n very fast too, with the db engine doing the work 18:45 chris_n pg++ 18:45 chris to try things like this 18:46 chris but yeah i think we need to try some things 18:46 chris pg xml datatypes 18:46 chris solr 18:46 chris etc 18:46 chris get some wip branches going 18:47 chris ill bring up the idea of cool friday 18:47 chris at the next dev meeting 18:47 chris_n mysql also has some xml functions 18:47 chris 1 friday a month 18:47 chris ppl do a show and tell of cool things they are playing with 18:47 chris often things like that are the spark needed 18:48 chris (at work we have a pizza thursday for that) 18:48 chris_n *sigh* ...so many areas to explore ...so little time 18:49 chris yep 18:50 chris i do think a quick middle ground is jdavidb idea of allowing the reports module to query individual marc fields via zebra 18:50 chris query the sql 18:51 chris or query marc 18:51 jdavidb Wouldn't require a great deal of work to at least get the *querying* part working. 18:51 chris *nod* 18:51 chris and for things like, how many records are using this subject heading 18:51 chris would be useful 18:51 chris ok bus time 19:04 |Lupin| our librarian just forwarded to me amessage she received entitled "User Request for update of Record." 19:05 |Lupin| can that be send by a spammer, or should that be regarded as a legitimate request ? 19:07 jwagner If the patron logged into his account and changed account details, it would generate that email to the library. 19:08 |Lupin| jwagner: oh yes ? 19:09 |Lupin| jwagner: so it is mandatory that when a patron modifies his details this has to be one by the librarian then ? 19:09 * chris_n wanders off on the xml tangent for a while 19:09 |Lupin| jwagner: cause the mail does not say changes have been done, it requires the librarian to do them... 19:11 jwagner Right -- that's basic security. Patrons don't get to edit the database directly. (Except for enhanced messaging settings.) 19:12 |Lupin| jwagner: hmm! so this is something that can't be changed ?? 19:12 jwagner It probably could but I don't think it should be changed. Bad idea to open up edit rights. 19:13 |Lupin| jwagner: oh but if the patron is logged in... 19:13 jwagner I'm a little surprised that when the enhanced messaging section was added it allows direct edits. 19:14 |Lupin| hmm I'm prety sure our librarian won't be very happy when I'll tell her tha she will have to do manually with the new system something that didn't require her intervension with the old one... 19:16 owen jwagner: At least enhanced messaging edits aren't potentially destructive 19:17 jwagner owen, yes, that's probably why it was done. It just surprised me. 19:17 pastebot "chris_n" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "mysql XPath Foo" (9 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/64 19:18 chris_n jdavidb: ^^ 19:18 jdavidb woot! 19:18 chris_n very cool and very easy 19:18 jdavidb chris_n++ 19:20 jdavidb you could SELECT the ExtractValue AS somethingshort FROM biblioitems WHERE anything you please; then? 19:20 jwagner chris_n++ Loverly! When can we have it??? 19:20 chris_n I've not worked through the particulars yet 19:21 jwagner details, details.... 19:21 chris_n I think something like SELECT ExtractValue((SELECT xmlfoo), xpath-foo) might be possible 19:22 jdavidb Looks like you could do SELECT ExtractValue(marcxml, ' stuff') AS stuff from biblioitems WHERE ... 19:22 bebbi Bye bye everybody 19:22 chris_n http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/xml-in-mysql5.1-6.0.html#xml-5.1-extractvalue 19:22 * jdavidb plans an essperiment. jwagner, if I'm right, it's *already in there*. 19:22 chris_n is where I've been mining info 19:23 chris_n "thar's gold in them thar hills" 19:25 pastebot "chris_n" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "more mysql XPath Foo" (9 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/65 19:25 chris_n it gets cooler by the minute 19:26 * chris_n looks around for nengard 19:26 jwagner can you do a select where, say, author = Somebody? 19:27 jdavidb You've already got that in biblio or bibliotiems. This would be most useful for things that aren't there, or are repeated fields, like 650s. 19:29 jwagner can you do where 650 = Something? 19:29 chris_n where does not seem to work with the query's current form 19:30 jwagner But you could at least dump out all the 650s, then use another script or tool to manipulate them? Maybe dump out their biblionumbers too so you can track back to the record. 19:30 jdavidb possibly. 19:31 jwagner Like Joel Hahn's prtmarc.pl tool for Unicorn -- dump out the fields, then use something else to play with them. 19:32 chris_n at any rate, it is clear that more of the xml parsing could be pushed off to the mysql engine 19:32 chris_n and the reporting module can access the xml elements more directly 19:33 jwagner Cool! We Wants It, We Wants It!!! 19:40 |Lupin| jwagner: coming back to the conversation we had about letting or not patrons modify their data... would it be acceptable to store their requests in a database table and to let a staff member moderate them ? 19:44 jwagner I'm not the security guru, but I have a real reluctance to allow anyone outside the staff module modify substantive data (including addresses, email, etc.). I'm not sure how storing it in a table would be much different than just having the librarian look at the email. Someone would still need to moderate in some fashion. 19:45 |Lupin| jwagner: yes, but moderate could be done just by pressing a buton 19:45 |Lupin| jwagner: whereas here one has to figure out which field has changed, then copy/paste the value... not that simple IMO 19:45 jwagner If you write a lot of backend code to do it, yes. How many of these changes do you expec? 19:45 pastebot "chris_n" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "mysql XPath Foo Multiple 952$p fields" (25 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/66 19:46 chris_n more xml foo for those interested ^^ 19:46 chris back 19:46 chris_n hmm.... foo fodder? 19:47 jwagner chris+n, not sure what the example is doing. The first one is selecting all barcodes, yes? And where it says subfield[@code="p"][2] that's saying give me the second barcode? 19:47 rhcl @seen pianohacker 19:47 munin rhcl: pianohacker was last seen in #koha 17 hours, 45 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <pianohacker> bye 19:47 |Lupin| jwagner: I don't know.. I just find it inconvenient to do just one change, especially when you read in braille inding out what has changed is not easy 19:48 |Lupin| perhaps the mail could list only the fields that have been modified and that would make the thing a bit easier... 19:48 jwagner Yes, in your case that might be worth doing some development to make it easier. 19:50 chris_n jwagner: correct 19:50 |Lupin| jwagner: doesn't it make any difference for a sighted person ? difficult for me to evaluate whether this looks difficult to me because I'm blind or because I'm lazy 19:50 chris_n just array notation to specify which barcode 19:50 jwagner chris_n, can you make it put some kind of separator between the barcodes? 19:50 chris_n but mysql array elements begin with 1 not 0 like perl 19:51 chris_n jwagner: maybe with a concat()? 19:51 jwagner to get output like JL08040014|JL08121992, so another script could split them up? 19:52 chris so you can do this 19:52 jwagner |Lupin|, I'm not too familiar with the output of that edit page, but the layout could probably be improved for everyone. 19:53 chris_n concat() does not do what might be expected... it puts the separator after the result set 19:53 chris_n ie JL08040014 JL08121992| 19:55 chris jdavidb: have you listed http://github.com/ptfs/Koha-PTFS on the wiki? 19:56 chris_n 'SELECT ExtractValue((SELECT marcxml FROM biblioitems WHERE biblionumber=14), '//datafield[@tag="952"]/subfield[@code>="a"]') AS ITEM;' returns the entire 952 data for all 952 fields 19:56 chris_n non-delimited of course 19:56 chris you know what 19:56 jdavidb Not yet, chris; I just got it breathing today. 19:56 chris awesome work 19:58 chris if you do a sub query or two, you could report over subject headings that way quite easily 19:59 chris_n chris: there seems to be a large potential to dis-encumber some of koha's code very easily here 19:59 chris yup 19:59 chris_n 3.4 stuff? 19:59 chris i mean there is no way youd every want to search using this 19:59 chris but reports, that'd be fine 20:00 chris_n its a bit limited... the wish-list could easily get large 20:01 chris yep 20:01 chris but being able to do things like, find me all the biblios that use clown as their subject heading 20:01 chris could be done 20:02 chris_n it really needs WHERE ability 20:03 chris subselects 20:03 chris where 'fish' IN SELECT ExtractValue((SELECT marcxml FROM biblioitems WHERE biblionumber=14), '//datafield[@tag="952"]/subfield[@code>="a"]') 20:03 chris changing it to be 650a 20:03 chris and fixing the brackets 20:09 jwagner As a first step toward usability, I wonder if we could predefine a few useful searches/outputs, like give me all the 650s and do reports for them in the delivered group. 20:10 chris yeah thats what should do ill have a play round lunchtime 20:10 jwagner chris++ 20:10 jwagner and chris_n++ again! 20:11 jdavidb @karma chris 20:11 munin jdavidb: Karma for "chris" has been increased 77 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 77. 20:11 jdavidb @karma chris_n 20:11 munin jdavidb: Karma for "chris_n" has been increased 21 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 21. 20:11 chris @karma 20:11 munin chris: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59). Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10). You (chris) are ranked 1 out of 566. 20:11 jwagner No surprises there! 20:11 chris release_notes_with_no_release-- 20:11 chris :) 20:11 * jdavidb grins evilly 20:11 jdavidb @karma kados 20:11 munin jdavidb: Karma for "kados" has been increased 16 times and decreased 2 times for a total karma of 14. 20:12 jwagner @karma 20:12 munin jwagner: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59). Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10). You (jwagner) are ranked 15 out of 567. 20:13 * jdavidb cheers jwagner on. 20:13 chris_n @karma 20:13 munin chris_n: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59). Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10). You (chris_n) are ranked 12 out of 567. 20:13 jdavidb @karma 20:13 munin jdavidb: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59). Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10). You (jdavidb) are ranked 27 out of 567. 20:13 * jwagner cheers jdavidb on in return! 20:14 * chris_n finds it funny that opening comment tags have the lowest karma 20:14 jdavidb Gonna try to fling a few branches over the wall this weekend...got the public repo breathing, which helps a little. 20:14 jwagner probably people pasting code in, like <! -- etc. 20:14 chris yep 20:15 jwagner jdavidb++ for flinging 20:15 chris jdavidb++ 20:15 chris public_repos++ 20:15 jdavidb woot! 20:15 chris_n jdavidb++ 20:15 jdavidb @karma 20:15 munin jdavidb: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59). Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10). You (jdavidb) are ranked 18 out of 567. 20:15 jdavidb wow! 20:15 jwagner Wow, gone from 27 to 18??? 20:17 chris yeah its a long tail 20:19 |Lupin| chris: our librarian asks me whether it is possible to see the recent additions to the catalogue on OPAC's start page... I don't know. Anyh idea pls ? 20:20 * chris_n comes back in off of the xml tangent 20:20 chris_n time to go back to work :-| 20:21 chris yes 20:22 chris is the short answer 20:22 chris ill give you the long answer after work ;) 20:23 |Lupin| chris: cool ! after work means tomorrow morning UTC+1 ? 20:24 chris about 9 hours time from now 20:24 |Lupin| hmm very early then here... not sure I'll be awaken... 20:25 |Lupin| chris: do you want me to send you a reminder and thenperhaps you'd send me the response by email ? 20:25 chris can do 20:25 jwagner jdavidb had dome some development for a new books list -- is that ready to fling out too? 20:26 jdavidb The first rev of it is. I have some enhancements in mind, that I may or may not get too any time soon. 20:26 jdavidb It's not *beautiful*, but it works. Someone else might love on it and make it wonderful. 20:34 |Lupin| jdavidb: what is it exactly that you have developed ? 20:35 jdavidb a front-page addon for new titles. It's got several sysprefs attached, for flexibility in setup--lets you exclude a group of item types, title the box how you want, that kind of thing. 20:36 jdavidb It looks like a hitlist result, right now. I want to do a shelf-browser-looking thing, as V2. 20:36 jdavidb Sysprefs also let you say how many days something is "new", and how many items to put on the front page. 20:37 jdavidb You can say, 21 days, and 10 items, and it'll list the ten newest titles in the catalog, unless they're older than 21 days. 20:40 rhcl @seen kyle 20:40 munin rhcl: kyle was last seen in #koha 8 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 24 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <kyle> It wouldn't be a bad idea to add the messages to the Borrower Details screen as well. 20:40 rhcl Hummm, where's kyle been lately? 20:40 chris he isnt usually on #koha 20:40 chris never really has been 20:41 chris email is your best bet 20:41 rhcl Yea, I wanted to chat with him about his kiosk app. 20:42 * jwagner is glad to be working from home this afternoon -- the traffic maps already look gruesome as the holiday traffic hits.... 20:47 rhcl found this note interesting: "Added koha2libki script to delete accounts in libki that no longer exist in koha." http://libki.org/ 20:53 hdl |Lupin|: there is a recentacquisition page 20:54 hdl you can get that in 3.0.5 21:07 |Lupin| okay, back o real coding... see you later all ! 21:13 owen Happy Thanksgiving, US folks, and happy rest-of-the-week all others! 21:15 hdl happy thanksgiving 21:15 * chris_n heads out for the holiday 21:19 Ropuch yay 21:21 jwagner Yes, for non-USians, you probably won't see many of us until next week. Four-day weekends are nice :-) 21:23 Ropuch My Koha presentation on Open Solaris is considered the best one 21:24 * Ropuch is proud ;> 21:24 chris wooo well done Ropuch 21:24 chris maybe you can give that presentation at kohacon next year :-) 21:24 chris jwagner: have a good break 21:25 chris todays theme song 21:25 chris http://listen.grooveshark.com/#/song/Lightning/23019967 21:26 Ropuch chris: if my boss will buy me ticket ;> 21:26 chris :) can't hurt to ask 21:27 Ropuch Actually I've always wanted to visit that part of the world 21:27 Ropuch so I'm seriously considering holiday trip plus kohacon [; 21:32 chris good idea 21:32 chris october is a good time to visit, not overrun by tourists 21:47 henrybankh I am having a problem with my symbolic link between apache2 and koha-httpd.conf 21:48 henrybankh and NameVirtualHost *:80 has no VirtualHosts 21:50 henrybankh I think my problems involve sudo a2dissite default, how do I undo it's effects? 22:00 jwagner Happy Thanksgiving everyone -- see you next week. 22:04 Ropuch a2ensite? 22:05 Ropuch a2ensite is opposite to a2dissite 22:05 Ropuch bah 22:05 Ropuch Good night everubody 22:11 henrybankh I tried a2ensite also 22:12 henrybankh but I still get NameVirtualHost *:80 has no VirtualHosts 22:28 hdl henrybankh: you should disable NameVirtualhost in /etc/apache2/ports.conf 23:19 henrybankh by commenting it out# and then restart aapche? 23:21 hdl yes 23:21 henrybankh thanks--I thry now 23:22 henrybankh so good, when I restarted apache no error 23:24 henrybankh but I get the 404 error when I go to local host 23:26 henrybankh so my sym links are messed up I think 23:29 hdl henrybankh: maybe your default vhost is messing up with your opac 23:33 henrybankh hdl: I think my default is missing? I don't see a default in sites-enabled only koha 23:35 henrybankh hdl: In sites available I have abroken symbolic link also