Time  Nick        Message
00:26 chris       excellent russ
00:37 chris       yeah vettori is playing well
01:10 chris       interesting i was searching the liblime site, to see if they had put up when they plan to release their LLEK code
01:10 chris       http://www.liblime.com/search?SearchableText=release
01:11 chris       found http://www.liblime.com/products/koha/liblime-enterprise-koha/llek-release-notes/?searchterm=release
01:12 pianohacker That's very interesting
01:13 chris       Changes from June 1 Update (3.01.00.032) to LibLime Enterprise Koha build 4.0000000
01:14 pianohacker Bleh, I might be helping with some training of a local consortium that has chosen LEK, so I'd better study up...
01:14 pianohacker At least now we know what happened to the enhanced fines module
01:14 chris       train them in asking for it to be released :-)
01:14 chris       yeah
01:14 chris       siloed
01:15 chris       its kinda naff they use their own bug tracker
01:15 chris       so people who fixed the bugs get no credit
01:15 pianohacker also very siloed
01:15 chris       yep
01:15 pianohacker I've used the internal bugzilla, but it had two-digit bug numbers in those days, and was mainly used for support stuff
01:16 pianohacker evidently that's changed
01:16 chris       when i was there we used rt
01:16 chris       but we linked to koha bug numbers
01:20 chris       i wonder if there is a release now there are release notes
01:23 BuchBebbi   I wish you a god night (or a sunny dax if you are at the other side of the earth :-)
01:24 chris       good night :)
01:24 bebbi       thx
01:27 chris       nope not anywhere i can find .. ah well, we live in hope
01:36 pianohacker If you had to search to find it, it's probably meant for internal use
01:36 chris       well i wasnt even looking for it
01:36 chris       was just seeing if they had put up anything about releases
01:36 chris       but its not behind auth, so it will get in the google
01:44 pianohacker This is going to be very interesting to integrate
01:44 chris       if we ever get the chance
01:44 pianohacker Because taken as a whole, this touches almost all of C4 and a good portion of cgi-bin
01:44 chris       the longer they with hold it, the harder it gets
01:44 chris       yeah
01:45 chris       and without a git repo, which you and i both know they have
01:45 chris       but just a tarball of the files, manually integrating .. when they branched off koha 30 odd db edits and who knows how many patches ago
01:45 chris       is gonna be a nightmare
01:45 chris       thats why they invented version control
01:47 pianohacker More interestingly, they seem to be using a separate version numbering
01:47 chris       yup
01:49 chris       imagine how hard it will be
01:49 chris       when we change to TT
02:01 pianohacker bye
02:26 chris       @wunder sydney australia
02:26 munin       chris: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 26.0�C (1:00 PM EST on November 25, 2009). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 17.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady).
03:21 Amit        hi brendan, chris, chris_n2
03:21 Amit        good morning #koha
03:21 chris       hi Amit
03:24 brendan     hello amit
04:59 elpid101    hello everyone, i'm new to koha and i setup one, the problem is that the MARC records is not present or cannot be found in the catalouge.,, whenever i will querry in the catalouge
05:00 elpid101    something problem with my koha or just a little setup.. :)
06:17 chris       evening
06:18 nicomo      morning
06:25 |Lupin|     hey there
06:31 |Lupin|     till soon
06:44 chris       http://www.thehindu.com/2009/11/25/stories/2009112559940300.htm
07:17 Ropuch      Good morning
07:23 greenmang0  hello
07:31 Amit        hi nicomo
09:13 paul_p      @seen gmcharlt
09:13 munin       paul_p: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 15 hours, 46 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> jwagner: yes, first Wednesday of each month is the regular meeting
09:41 greenmang0  can anybody help me with this problem? if i upload a pdf in koha and search for a word written in that pdf... koha should show me the related pdf... is it possible.. if yes... how?
09:42 chris       no
09:43 chris       koha is a library management system, not a digital library, to do things like that you will want something like dspace, greenstone, fedora/fez, kete etc
09:45 greenmang0  chris: ok...
09:45 greenmang0  chris: i hope it has nothing to do with full text search..... ?
09:45 greenmang0  :S
09:46 chris       koha doesnt search documents
09:46 chris       it searches metadata about documents
09:47 chris       if you want to search documents you want a digital library system, you can combine one with koha, but you will have to do some work to do that
09:47 greenmang0  chris: can you tell me how to combine? and what work i will have to do?
09:48 chris       nope, and i dont know
09:48 chris       it would depend entirely on what you used as a digital library system
09:49 greenmang0  chris: because koha's feature list says koha can be used as a digital library system
09:49 greenmang0  chris; http://koha.org/about/features
09:50 chris       yeah you can do what Lupin has done and catalogue digital resources with it
09:50 chris       but its not searching the document, just the data about the document
09:50 chris       if you want to index the document, you need something else to do that
09:52 hdl         hi chris
09:52 chris       hi hdl
09:53 chris       id edit that page on the koha.org site, it has some out of date info on it, but i cant
10:22 greenmang0  chris: what do you mean by "do something else" ? if possible i can try it out
10:31 bebbi       Hello world :-)
10:39 indradg     greenmang0, use stuff like plucene and hack up a bunch of custom .pm modules or you may use Namazu have it working as a CGI and then again go the custom  perl module way
10:56 greenmang0  indradg: Perl - The only language that looks the same before and after RSA encryption. - Keith Bostic.
10:56 greenmang0  :D
11:00 indradg     greenmang0, then plucene perhaps... based around the Lucene API (the stuff used by DSpace for full-text indexing)
11:01 greenmang0  indradg: ok... :)
13:14 jdavidb     hdl:  ping?
13:15 hdl         jdavidb: ?
13:15 hdl         hi
13:15 hdl         how are you ?
13:16 jdavidb     howdy.  I'm well.  I got your note, and the conversation with Jane.  I've replied, but long-and-short is that I'll see about getting this out and available over the holiday weekend.  Will that be soon enough to be of use to you?
13:17 Nate        good morning everyone
13:17 jdavidb     howdy, Nate.
13:18 Nate        hiya jdavidb
13:26 |Lupin|     hi again all :)
13:28 chris_n     g'morning
13:28 |Lupin|     hi chris_n
13:29 |Lupin|     I was wonderng
13:29 |Lupin|     is there a way to have most recently added records (or items) displayed on opac start page ?
13:33 Ropuch      http://www.myacpl.org/koha/?p=74
13:34 owen        "Check that it's real Koha and that you can download the exact same source to run on your own server if you want, though."
13:34 owen        slef++
13:35 Ropuch      Hi owen
13:42 jdavidb     Hm...cfouts said in email that git.koha.org was healthy again, but I'm not able to get there this morning.  Anyone else having the same trouble?
13:43 nengard     jdavidb me neither
13:43 nengard     :(
13:43 jdavidb     :(
13:45 |Lupin|     Ropuch: thanks a lot
13:45 |Lupin|     Ropuch: perhaps a bit to complex to set-up, and not exactly what we would need...
13:46 |Lupin|     ON our old server the 20 most recent records were displayed on the start page, I think our librarian is missing this feature
13:46 Ropuch      |Lupin|: np, actually displaying last added records should be much easier
13:46 nengard     I need help - what do I do on Debian if I can't remember my MySQL login info? can I create a new user? or recover that info in any way?
13:46 Ropuch      nengard: do you have root acces to mysql?
13:46 nengard     yes
13:47 nengard     DUH!!
13:47 nengard     that's the username - ROOT :) hehe
13:47 jdavidb     you can log in as root, and just reset it.  If you can't log in as root, there are ways to recover that.
13:47 nengard     I'm so so so jetlagged and fuzzy
13:47 |Lupin|     nengard: then grant should work... the thing that is documented in INSTA...debian in koha sources I think
13:47 Ropuch      UPDATE mysql.user SET Password=PASSWORD('newpass') WHERE User='bob' AND Host='%.loc.gov';
13:47 Ropuch      FLUSH PRIVILEGES;
13:47 Ropuch      (from mysql documentation)
13:48 |Lupin|     grant all on *.* to user nengard identified by password('newpassword)');
13:48 |Lupin|     something like this
13:48 |Lupin|     (the exact thing is in the mentionned file)
13:49 |Lupin|     k, have to go again, till soon all
13:49 |Lupin|     bye
13:51 magnusenger nengard: if it's the username/password Koha uses you can look in /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml (on a standard install)
13:53 nengard     thanks magnusenger, it wasn't - it was one I set on the server and it was the username I was using wrong - I was trying my koha user instead of root :)
13:54 magnusenger nengard: ah... ;-)
15:19 brendan     good morning
15:20 nengard     howdy
15:45 wizzyrea_   mornin peps
15:48 chris_n     wizzyrea_: ate the rest of the pesto with wild goose last evening... they made a super good combination
15:49 chris_n     fwiw: git.koha.org is back up... again
16:08 nengard     can i just say - documenting frameworks sucks - and i keep skipping around and editing other manual pieces instead of finishing it ;)
16:10 chris_n     lol
16:10 chris_n     nengard: the new documentation looks nice in yelp
16:10 nengard     in yelp?
16:10 wizzyrea_   chris_n: wild goose!
16:11 wizzyrea_   I so should have proposed goose for thanksgiving
16:11 chris_n     wizzyrea_: canadian to be exact :-)
16:11 wizzyrea_   aw, I drive past a flock of those every day
16:11 chris_n     taken just outside my house
16:11 wizzyrea_   hehe wow!
16:12 chris_n     btw, had a cauliflower the other day that had to be a good 14" across the head
16:14 chris_n     nengard: yelp is the help client in gnome
16:14 nengard     ah - it's also a consume review site - so i was confused :)
16:15 chris_n     nengard: yelp file:///home/nobodyshere/kohadocs/en/koha3-2manual.xml
16:24 wizzyrea_   bleh, I'm doing something wrong here:
16:24 wizzyrea_   SELECT borrowers.cardnumber, borrowers.surname, borrowers.firstname, borrowers.branchcode WHERE borrowers.cardnumber LIKE "1003008003%" AND borrowers.branchcode == "linwood"
16:25 wizzyrea_   what I need to know is all of the cardnumbers above that 100300800% range that are in linwood
16:25 wizzyrea_   i tried with single quotes
16:27 jdavidb     use = instead of ==.
16:27 wizzyrea_   I tried that too :(
16:28 jdavidb     I would word it thus:
16:28 jdavidb     SELECT cardnumber,surname,firstname,branchcode FROM borrowers WHERE cardnumber LIKE "1003008003%" AND branchcode="LINWOOD".
16:28 jdavidb     Probably, your branchcodes are all-caps, and the SELECT is case-sensitive.
16:29 wizzyrea_   I did it that way the first time, no results, and I know there *should* be results
16:30 jdavidb     take out each half of the AND clause, to check each part independently?
16:31 jdavidb     WHERE cardnumber LIKE "1003008003%"    and then WHERE branchcode="LINWOOD"
16:31 wizzyrea_   yea, that's where I'm headed. Blerg. One should not think this hard the day before thanksgiving
16:31 jdavidb     aw..
16:31 wizzyrea_   :)
16:35 wizzyrea_   yea,  it doesn't want to combine those two things for whatever reason
16:35 wizzyrea_   it just refuses
16:35 wizzyrea_   I can get them independently
16:36 nengard     okay - frameworks docs started - probably needs some work - but it's a start :) http://git.biblibre.com/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=kohadocs;a=commit;h=70cb8f6957bab6eff28dcb88ee5f59c51bea8f5e
16:38 jdavidb     might try some parentheses, wizzyrea_:   WHERE (cardnumber LIKE "foo" ) AND (branchcode="blah")    couldn't hoit.
16:44 wizzyrea_   well I must have had an extra space or something, now it works
16:44 wizzyrea_   i'm fuddled. Thanks jdavidb for looking
16:44 jdavidb     woot!
16:44 jdavidb     you're welcome.  :)
17:03 chris_n     arggg!
17:03 chris_n     the cabinet installer just broke the water supply line underneath the house :-(
17:03 wizzyrea_   OMG! That sucks!!
17:04 chris_n     yeah, the crawl space is about 12" high...
17:04 * chris_n   looks around for a very short plumber
17:15 wizzyrea    chris_n: I don't discount at all the necessity of plumbers of all heights. I lived in a place with a very inconveniently located toilet, and you really did have to get a short, thin plumber to work on it.
17:15 owen        There may be a market for toddlers with plumbing training...
17:16 * wizzyrea  has a toddler... hmmm...
17:18 chris_n     lol :-)
17:20 chris       morning
17:25 |Lupin|     hi again everybody
17:25 |Lupin|     our librarian just came to me with a strange issue...
17:26 |Lupin|     she can't modify a user, and I can't either
17:26 |Lupin|     Koha complains that the card number is already in use.
17:26 |Lupin|     Has somebody already met this problem ?
17:26 bebbi       Hi |Lupin|
17:26 |Lupin|     guten Abend bebbi
17:27 wizzyrea    |Lupin| are you using Owen's hack to put the quick add at the top?
17:27 wizzyrea    |Lupin| patron quick add, that is
17:28 bebbi       Auch einen sch�nen Aben |Lupin|  und viel Erfolg bei der Probleml�sung ...
17:28 |Lupin|     wizzyrea: not that I know
17:28 |Lupin|     wizzyrea: if it's not in master, then I think I don't use it.
17:29 |Lupin|     wizzyrea: I just used the Edit link that appears besides to the user info in the member results after a search
17:29 |Lupin|     bebbi: viel mal Danke. NIcht einfar.
17:30 wizzyrea    |Lupin| owen's little jquery thing puts barcode/birthdate at the top of the add or edit screens, if you fill it in, it says you have a duplicate barcode when editing
17:31 |Lupin|     wizzyrea: I don't have that... I'm using lynx anyway so that would not be active here, but I don't have it so I think it's a different problem
17:32 wizzyrea    hrm
17:33 |Lupin|     wizzyrea: which version of KOha do you have ?
17:33 wizzyrea    it's older than yours, I think we have 3.01.00.34 or somesuch
17:34 wizzyrea    it's some ways back off of master
17:36 |Lupin|     wizzyrea: ok, but not too far, thogh...
17:37 |Lupin|     wizzyrea: would you mind trying to modify something related to a member, just to see if it works for you ?
17:37 wizzyrea    |Lupin| I'm curious if the koha logs say anything
17:37 |Lupin|     wizzyrea: like just adding a space in an address, so something like that...
17:37 wizzyrea    |Lupin| we'd have heard about it if it didn't work, our librarians are doing it every day
17:37 wizzyrea    it definitely works for us :(
17:38 |Lupin|     I can check the logs...
17:40 hdl         |Lupin| ? Can you tell me more ?
17:42 |Lupin|     wizzyrea: it doesn't like line 722 of members/memberentry.pl: my $newentry = { map { $_ => $entry->{$_} } %$entry };
17:42 |Lupin|     rather unclear to me...
17:42 |Lupin|     hdl: sure I can... the error is ERROR_cardnumber
17:43 |Lupin|     hi jane
17:43 jwagner     hi |Lupin|
17:43 hdl         hi jwagner
17:44 jwagner     hi hdl
17:49 nengard     Hi all -Report question - how would I query info in the Marc record?  Like if I wanted to grab a list of subject headings and count how many times they're each used?
17:52 * owen      Chirping crickets
17:54 nengard     uh huh
17:54 nengard     was scared of that
17:54 nengard     come on people - you can't tell me that no customers ever asked for this ....
17:56 jwagner     nengard, _I_ ask for lots of stuff like that -- the ability to dump out particular MARC fields, the ability to edit particular MARC fields, etc. etc.  It just isn't real easy to do with Koha's handling of MARC records.  I have plans.....
17:57 nengard     hmmm
17:57 nengard     i don't mind hard - i just need to see one example to try and do it for myself and my customers
18:00 jwagner     You won't get one from me -- I haven't figured it out myself.  Some of our MySQL experts may have, I think, but I Are No Expert.
18:01 owen        I would think you'd need some kind of specialized query of Zebra
18:01 nengard     why zebra - isn't the marc stored in the mysql tables?
18:02 jdavidb     In one big field, yes.
18:02 jwagner     It's in one big blob in biblioitems, if I remember correctly.  The trick is reading that blob & extracting just what you want.
18:02 nengard     k
18:03 jdavidb     I've seen a few things where you can grab a control field, like if 001 starts with EBL on a bunch of records, with WHERE biblioitems.marcxml LIKE '%<controlfield tag="001">EBL%'   but that is *really* gruesome.
18:04 jdavidb     brute-force searches of the marcxml would be very inefficient, I should think.
18:04 chris_n     nengard: I think the marc is stored as a blog in xml in biblioitems
18:04 nengard     yep - found that
18:04 chris_n     what jdavidb said :-)
18:04 |Lupin|     someone remembers how to temporarily disable a unicity constraint in mysql, pls ?
18:05 nengard     okay - so how do we pull data out of the blob to print on the screen - and on the catalogign form
18:05 nengard     isn't there a query for that? or are we doing it a diff way
18:05 chris_n     nengard: you could write a script using XML::Simple to do something with it perhaps
18:05 chris_n     but probably not a direct SQL query
18:06 jdavidb     At the hitlist level, it's coming from Zebra, mostly.  When you get to the edit screen, it's being SELECTed on the biblionumber, and XML libraries are being used to chop it up for editing, then put it back together again.
18:06 jdavidb     If I'm understanding it right.
18:06 nengard     hmm
18:06 nengard     this is not good news at all
18:07 nengard     every cataloger wants data on the items they've cataloged - data about authors, subject headings, etc etc etc
18:07 jdavidb     nope.    It's a tremendous weakness in the data model.  If you don't store it in SQL, basically, reporting Just Won't Happen
18:07 pastebot    "chris_n" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "marcxml blob example" (106 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/63
18:07 chris_n     nengard: ^^
18:08 nengard     chris_n yeah i have that open
18:08 nengard     and i understand what jdavidb is saying - but trying to count the occurences of subject headings or authors when there can be morethan one per blob is where i'm stuck
18:10 jdavidb     you would almost need a hook into zebra to do searches like that, and get back the biblionumbers of relevant records, then just slice-and-dice those.
18:10 jwagner     nengard, both jdavidb and I come from Sirsi Unicorn, where you had lots of tools to be able to export and manipulate not only the item data but the MARC data itself.  I used to produce massive cleanup lists for the catalogers of subject headings with typos, outdated subject headings, 856s for URL checking, etc.  I _really_ miss that with Koha.
18:11 nengard     so maybe we need to figure out how to fix koha so that that can be done
18:11 * jdavidb   hands nengard the keys to a Maserati with no transmission.
18:11 nengard     data should be stored in individual fields in a table(s)
18:11 chris_n     jdavidb: lol!
18:12 jwagner     That's one of my long-term dreams for Koha development.  Of course, that means someone else (cough, cough) gets to do the actual work -- it's beyond me.  But I know what I want it to do!
18:12 jdavidb     oh, heck no, nengard.  Every change to the MARC standard would require restructuring of the database tables.
18:12 nengard     okay - then what do you suggest?
18:12 jwagner     There are (there have to be) tools to store the MARC record itself in a table, and parse out the fields/subfields as needed.
18:13 jdavidb     Storing the MARCXML not in a blob in the table, perhaps, but in a separate XML-native database, which could do that sort of searching inherently.
18:13 jwagner     Then the MARC record links to the items & whatever other tables it needs to, like now on biblionumber.
18:13 jdavidb     Either that, or better XML slice-and-dicing available to the reports module.  (since none is available now)
18:13 chris_n     nengard: jdavidb's suggestion of zebra + script is probably the best solution given the status quo
18:13 nengard     my prob with the marcxml - or the way it's presented is things like the subject headings which you can't search or browse in koha in the way a cataloger would expect
18:13 nengard     i don't want to just see $a - I want to see the entire subject heading - all subfields
18:13 nengard     and i want to search for them that way too
18:14 nengard     chris_n - I know mysql - I do not know perl or zebra - and so i'm screwed if that's the only option
18:14 * jdavidb   edits nengard's last to read "...i'm screwed for now if that's..."
18:15 nengard     and how long is 'for now'?
18:15 jdavidb     Until someone has some serious time to hack on it.  Or serious sponsorship.
18:15 nengard     right - so a long long long time
18:15 nengard     :(
18:15 jdavidb     Not necessarily.
18:15 nengard     you know something i don't know
18:15 nengard     like thatyou're going ot have serious time or funding soon?
18:15 jdavidb     yeah, I do.  I know what needs hacking.  I don't know about time or funding, no.
18:16 jwagner     We've been kicking around ideas on this for months.  Just a question of getting the time and funding....
18:16 nengard     yup
18:16 jdavidb     My approach, rather than trash the data model, would be a re-do of the reports module, to include tools for searching Zebra and extracting and displaying MARC fields.
18:16 jdavidb     Seems to me that'd be the smaller problem.
18:17 jwagner     I have lots of other dreams, too, like making it easier to control what fields are indexed and displayed.
18:17 nengard     better idea - that others have had - scrap zebra alltogether
18:17 nengard     it's more trouble than it's worth
18:17 nengard     i think it was chris and nahuel
18:17 jdavidb     Handle the search part like Sirsi's seltext API, which does searches Just Like The Opac, and gives back biblionumbers.
18:18 jdavidb     Wouldn't hurt my feelings to switch to some sort of native-XML database.
18:18 jwagner     Fine by me -- zebra's caused me nothing but grief every time I've had to mess with it.  As long as there is something better, which I think there is.
18:18 chris_n     nengard: nozebra code in koha has many more problems iirc than zebra has problems
18:18 chris_n     so that solution would take some major changes as well
18:19 * chris_n   thinks Search.pm could also benefit from a re-factor, however
18:19 jdavidb     Replacing Zebra would be major surgery.  Major-major.  Like, take-your-brain-out-and-put-it-another-body major.
18:19 nengard     jdavidb - well that said - i know it's in the plans
18:19 nengard     that's what i know :) hehe
18:20 jdavidb     :)  I'm glad.  Zebra has a number of issues that limit its' usefulness, IMO.
18:20 nengard     yup yup
18:20 jdavidb     I'd like to see things modified where any arbitrary metadata format can be used, and the user can control display, indexing, everything, from inside Koha frameworks.
18:20 nengard     frameworks - another area worth ranting about
18:21 jwagner     Don't Get Me Started!
18:21 nengard     why the heck do i have to delete each individual tag one at a time? if I want to create a brief record template it takes nearly an hour to remove all the fields i don't need
18:21 nengard     i need checkboxes
18:21 |Lupin|     mysql> alter table borrowers drop key cardnumber;
18:21 |Lupin|     this fails with the following error:
18:22 * chris_n   thinks nengard should like the labels interface if checkboxes make her happy
18:22 |Lupin|     ERROR 1025 (HY000): Error on rename of './braillenet_koha/#sql-723_ef' to './braillenet_koha/borrowers' (errno: 150)
18:22 |Lupin|     any idea ? :)
18:22 |Lupin|     I feel dry...
18:22 jdavidb     chris_n, do you think my notion of hacking on the report module is the Right Way to go at it?
18:22 nengard     lol - they don't always - but it just seems stupid to have over 300 links to delete things ... ther eare more efficient options
18:22 chris_n     jdavidb: that is probably the approach I would take give the way things are
18:22 nengard     reports needs work too - i'm with you on that
18:23 jdavidb     Use Search.pm to do the searches, so a refactor there won't break anything, then write some sort of report definition language to allow the user to snag the MARC fields.
18:23 nengard     i'd love to be able to put my where clause in using the wizard -
18:23 chris_n     |Lupin|: probably a foreign key or unique key problem
18:24 |Lupin|     chris_n: aaaah... hmm I'd need to temporarily disable the unicity checks on cardnumbers so that I can update them... not sure how I should do...
18:24 jdavidb     Boxes:   Search this <box>, then output this: <box>, sorted by <box>  ...user fills in the boxes, and a report jumps out.
18:24 |Lupin|     maybe I can do m updates in a clever way, actually...
18:25 chris_n     |Lupin|: SET FOREIGN_KEY_CHECKS=0;
18:25 chris_n     |Lupin|: SET UNIQUE_KEY_CHECKS=0;
18:25 chris_n     |Lupin|: and then set them back to 1 afterwards
18:25 nengard     jdavidb - add - where <box>
18:26 |Lupin|     chris_n: ahhh thanks ! I was pretty sure I already did such a thing but couldn't find the magical lines... thanks !!
18:26 fredericd   nengard: Concerning framework editing, since you're a SQL wizard, just do it direcly in MySQL. With marc_tag_structure and marc_subfield_structure tables...
18:26 fredericd   can't agree more on your marcxml reporting discussion...
18:26 fredericd   even if I'm not sure Zebra is so bad...
18:26 nengard     fredericd - yes I can do that - but the librarians I train can't - so they sit there for hours clicking delete
18:27 nengard     we need to design for the librarians - not the sql experts
18:27 |Lupin|     chris_n: ERROR 1062 (23000): Duplicate entry '3' for key 'cardnumber'
18:27 |Lupin|     (although it has been disabled...
18:28 fredericd   so it's just a matter of improving UI: not very invoicable
18:28 |Lupin|     (althogh the checks have been disabled, I mean)
18:28 jwagner     What I'd like is one table that is the complete MARC standard -- 000 through 999.  Then make the frameworks select fields to display & edit from the standard as needed (for books, serials, whatever).  But there's only one underlying MARC, which will make it easier to maintain when LC makes changes.
18:28 chris_n     |Lupin|: I'm not sure there
18:29 |Lupin|     chris_n: ok, np, I'll see if I can do my updates in a way that aways respects the constraints...
18:30 chris_n     jwagner: so various frameworks essentially become simple "filters" through which one views the standard
18:30 chris_n     nice solution
18:30 chris_n     |Lupin|: you did disable both foreign key and unique key checks?
18:30 jwagner     After suffering through years of updating 12-15 format policies in Unicorn every time there was a change to the MARC standard (Unicorn also has them separate), believe me I'll do anything to simplify the frameworks!
18:31 chris_n     simplification++
18:31 chris_n     wb paul_p
18:31 jdavidb     Better quit talking about paul_p..he's here!
18:31 jwagner     As much as I used to complain about Unicorn, though, I have to admit that it did do a LOT of things right.  I want to steal, er, adapt some of those for Koha.
18:32 paul_p      sorry, but not really here : just checking my gmail calendar for a meeting with a teacher of my 1st son.
18:33 chris_n     jdavidb: ok we can go back to talking about paul_p since he's not really here ;-)
18:33 fredericd   salut Paul !
18:33 jdavidb     okay.
18:33 jwagner     Pay no attention to that man behind the alias....
18:34 * chris_n   wishes he could think code and it appear in vim
18:34 chris_n     things would go a lot faster
18:34 jwagner     I dream in code sometimes.  Does that work too?
18:35 chris_n     that's a step in the right direction
18:36 jwagner     But I can think of more exciting things to dream about :-(
18:36 chris_n     heh
18:38 jdavidb     chris_n:  for the searching bit, what if you created a variation of C4::Search::SimpleSearch to return biblionumbers instead of MARC results?  It can take a CCL query as input, which is what you'd want the user putting in the box.
18:39 chris       the thing that we have to deal with
18:39 chris       that others simply dont bother with
18:39 chris       is the fact we deal with more than just MARC21
18:39 chris       whatever you do cannot break what is a fundamentally cool feature of Koha
18:40 jdavidb     chris:  yep.  That's why I have this mad dream of using some mechanism to allow any arbitrary metadata form--any of the MARCish ones, or DC, or MODS, whatever you can describe in an XML DTD.
18:40 chris       yep
18:40 chris_n     chris: will the cleanup of circulation include some cleanup of C4::Search?
18:41 chris       C4::Search is on the list to be refactored/rewritten for 3.4
18:41 chris       its about 2000 lines too long for a start
18:41 |Lupin|     when a member is modified from within staff client, is it's password also modified ?
18:41 |Lupin|     I'm asking because there is some value in the password field so I hope modifying user info does not alter the password ?
18:41 chris       |Lupin|: no, only when you modify it
18:41 jwagner     It shouldn't be unless you specifically edit the password field.
18:42 chris       but letting the reports talk to the xml would be good too
18:43 |Lupin|     jwagner: well, when I go from field to field I can see there is some value there but perhaps it is ignored... I don't understand how that could be achieved, though
18:43 chris       postgres has an xml datatype
18:43 chris_n     chris: I was wondering about that
18:44 chris       and then by using xpath and views
18:44 chris       you can search/report over it
18:44 chris       materialised views
18:44 chris       make the db do the work for ya
18:45 chris_n     yup, very cool xml functions there
18:45 chris       we need a hackfest
18:45 chris_n     very fast too, with the db engine doing the work
18:45 chris_n     pg++
18:45 chris       to try things like this
18:46 chris       but yeah i think we need to try some things
18:46 chris       pg xml datatypes
18:46 chris       solr
18:46 chris       etc
18:46 chris       get some wip branches going
18:47 chris       ill bring up the idea of cool friday
18:47 chris       at the next dev meeting
18:47 chris_n     mysql also has some xml functions
18:47 chris       1 friday a month
18:47 chris       ppl do a show and tell of cool things they are playing with
18:47 chris       often things like that are the spark needed
18:48 chris       (at work we have a pizza thursday for that)
18:48 chris_n     *sigh* ...so many areas to explore ...so little time
18:49 chris       yep
18:50 chris       i do think a quick middle ground is jdavidb idea of allowing the reports module to query individual marc fields via zebra
18:50 chris       query the sql
18:51 chris       or query marc
18:51 jdavidb     Wouldn't require a great deal of work to at least get the *querying* part working.
18:51 chris       *nod*
18:51 chris       and for things like, how many records are using this subject heading
18:51 chris       would be useful
18:51 chris       ok bus time
19:04 |Lupin|     our librarian just forwarded to me amessage she received entitled "User Request for update of Record."
19:05 |Lupin|     can that be send by a spammer, or should that be regarded as a legitimate request ?
19:07 jwagner     If the patron logged into his account and changed account details, it would generate that email to the library.
19:08 |Lupin|     jwagner: oh yes ?
19:09 |Lupin|     jwagner: so it is mandatory that when a patron modifies his details this has to be one by the librarian then ?
19:09 * chris_n   wanders off on the xml tangent for a while
19:09 |Lupin|     jwagner: cause the mail does not say changes have been done, it requires the librarian to do them...
19:11 jwagner     Right -- that's basic security.  Patrons don't get to edit the database directly.  (Except for enhanced messaging settings.)
19:12 |Lupin|     jwagner: hmm! so this is something that can't be changed ??
19:12 jwagner     It probably could but I don't think it should be changed.  Bad idea to open up edit rights.
19:13 |Lupin|     jwagner: oh but if the patron is logged in...
19:13 jwagner     I'm a little surprised that when the enhanced messaging section was added it allows direct edits.
19:14 |Lupin|     hmm I'm prety sure our librarian won't be very happy when I'll tell her tha she will have to do manually with the new system something that didn't require her intervension with the old one...
19:16 owen        jwagner: At least enhanced messaging edits aren't potentially destructive
19:17 jwagner     owen, yes, that's probably why it was done.  It just surprised me.
19:17 pastebot    "chris_n" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "mysql XPath Foo" (9 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/64
19:18 chris_n     jdavidb: ^^
19:18 jdavidb     woot!
19:18 chris_n     very cool and very easy
19:18 jdavidb     chris_n++
19:20 jdavidb     you could SELECT the ExtractValue AS somethingshort FROM biblioitems WHERE anything you please;   then?
19:20 jwagner     chris_n++ Loverly!  When can we have it???
19:20 chris_n     I've not worked through the particulars yet
19:21 jwagner     details, details....
19:21 chris_n     I think something like SELECT ExtractValue((SELECT xmlfoo), xpath-foo) might be possible
19:22 jdavidb     Looks like you could do SELECT ExtractValue(marcxml, ' stuff') AS stuff from biblioitems WHERE ...
19:22 bebbi       Bye bye everybody
19:22 chris_n     http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/xml-in-mysql5.1-6.0.html#xml-5.1-extractvalue
19:22 * jdavidb   plans an essperiment.  jwagner, if I'm right, it's *already in there*.
19:22 chris_n     is where I've been mining info
19:23 chris_n     "thar's gold in them thar hills"
19:25 pastebot    "chris_n" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "more mysql XPath Foo" (9 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/65
19:25 chris_n     it gets cooler by the minute
19:26 * chris_n   looks around for nengard
19:26 jwagner     can you do a select where, say, author = Somebody?
19:27 jdavidb     You've already got that in biblio or bibliotiems.  This would be most useful for things that aren't there, or are repeated fields, like 650s.
19:29 jwagner     can you do where 650 = Something?
19:29 chris_n     where does not seem to work with the query's current form
19:30 jwagner     But you could at least dump out all the 650s, then use another script or tool to manipulate them?  Maybe dump out their biblionumbers too so you can track back to the record.
19:30 jdavidb     possibly.
19:31 jwagner     Like Joel Hahn's prtmarc.pl tool for Unicorn -- dump out the fields, then use something else to play with them.
19:32 chris_n     at any rate, it is clear that more of the xml parsing could be pushed off to the mysql engine
19:32 chris_n     and the reporting module can access the xml elements more directly
19:33 jwagner     Cool!  We Wants It, We Wants It!!!
19:40 |Lupin|     jwagner: coming back to the conversation we had about letting or not patrons modify their data... would it be acceptable to store their requests in a database table and to let a staff member moderate them ?
19:44 jwagner     I'm not the security guru, but I have a real reluctance to allow anyone outside the staff module modify substantive data (including addresses, email, etc.).  I'm not sure how storing it in a table would be much different than just having the librarian look at the email.  Someone would still need to moderate in some fashion.
19:45 |Lupin|     jwagner: yes, but moderate could be done just by pressing a buton
19:45 |Lupin|     jwagner: whereas here one has to figure out which field has changed, then copy/paste the value... not that simple IMO
19:45 jwagner     If you write a lot of backend code to do it, yes.  How many of these changes do you expec?
19:45 pastebot    "chris_n" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "mysql XPath Foo Multiple 952$p fields" (25 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/66
19:46 chris_n     more xml foo for those interested ^^
19:46 chris       back
19:46 chris_n     hmm.... foo fodder?
19:47 jwagner     chris+n, not sure what the example is doing.  The first one is selecting all barcodes, yes?  And where it says subfield[@code="p"][2] that's saying give me the second barcode?
19:47 rhcl        @seen pianohacker
19:47 munin       rhcl: pianohacker was last seen in #koha 17 hours, 45 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <pianohacker> bye
19:47 |Lupin|     jwagner: I don't know.. I just find it inconvenient to do just one change, especially when you read in braille inding out what has changed is not easy
19:48 |Lupin|     perhaps the mail could list only the fields that have been modified and that would make the thing a bit easier...
19:48 jwagner     Yes, in your case that might be worth doing some development to make it easier.
19:50 chris_n     jwagner: correct
19:50 |Lupin|     jwagner: doesn't it make any difference for a sighted person ? difficult for me to evaluate whether this looks difficult to me because I'm blind or because I'm lazy
19:50 chris_n     just array notation to specify which barcode
19:50 jwagner     chris_n, can you make it put some kind of separator between the barcodes?
19:50 chris_n     but mysql array elements begin with 1 not 0 like perl
19:51 chris_n     jwagner: maybe with a concat()?
19:51 jwagner     to get output like JL08040014|JL08121992, so another script could split them up?
19:52 chris       so you can do this
19:52 jwagner     |Lupin|, I'm not too familiar with the output of that edit page, but the layout could probably be improved for everyone.
19:53 chris_n     concat() does not do what might be expected... it puts the separator after the result set
19:53 chris_n     ie JL08040014 JL08121992|
19:55 chris       jdavidb: have you listed http://github.com/ptfs/Koha-PTFS on the wiki?
19:56 chris_n     'SELECT ExtractValue((SELECT marcxml FROM biblioitems WHERE biblionumber=14), '//datafield[@tag="952"]/subfield[@code>="a"]') AS ITEM;' returns the entire 952 data for all 952 fields
19:56 chris_n     non-delimited of course
19:56 chris       you know what
19:56 jdavidb     Not yet, chris; I just got it breathing today.
19:56 chris       awesome work
19:58 chris       if you do a sub query or two, you could report over subject headings that way quite easily
19:59 chris_n     chris: there seems to be a large potential to dis-encumber some of koha's code very easily here
19:59 chris       yup
19:59 chris_n     3.4 stuff?
19:59 chris       i mean there is no way youd every want to search using this
19:59 chris       but reports, that'd be fine
20:00 chris_n     its a bit limited... the wish-list could easily get large
20:01 chris       yep
20:01 chris       but being able to do things like, find me all the biblios that use clown as their subject heading
20:01 chris       could be done
20:02 chris_n     it really needs WHERE ability
20:03 chris       subselects
20:03 chris       where 'fish' IN SELECT ExtractValue((SELECT marcxml FROM biblioitems WHERE biblionumber=14),  '//datafield[@tag="952"]/subfield[@code>="a"]')
20:03 chris       changing it to be 650a
20:03 chris       and fixing the brackets
20:09 jwagner     As a first step toward usability, I wonder if we could predefine a few useful searches/outputs, like give me all the 650s and do reports for them in the delivered group.
20:10 chris       yeah thats what should do ill have a play round lunchtime
20:10 jwagner     chris++
20:10 jwagner     and chris_n++ again!
20:11 jdavidb     @karma chris
20:11 munin       jdavidb: Karma for "chris" has been increased 77 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 77.
20:11 jdavidb     @karma chris_n
20:11 munin       jdavidb: Karma for "chris_n" has been increased 21 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 21.
20:11 chris       @karma
20:11 munin       chris: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10).  You (chris) are ranked 1 out of 566.
20:11 jwagner     No surprises there!
20:11 chris       release_notes_with_no_release--
20:11 chris       :)
20:11 * jdavidb   grins evilly
20:11 jdavidb     @karma kados
20:11 munin       jdavidb: Karma for "kados" has been increased 16 times and decreased 2 times for a total karma of 14.
20:12 jwagner     @karma
20:12 munin       jwagner: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10).  You (jwagner) are ranked 15 out of 567.
20:13 * jdavidb   cheers jwagner on.
20:13 chris_n     @karma
20:13 munin       chris_n: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10).  You (chris_n) are ranked 12 out of 567.
20:13 jdavidb     @karma
20:13 munin       jdavidb: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10).  You (jdavidb) are ranked 27 out of 567.
20:13 * jwagner   cheers jdavidb on in return!
20:14 * chris_n   finds it funny that opening comment tags have the lowest karma
20:14 jdavidb     Gonna try to fling a few branches over the wall this weekend...got the public repo breathing, which helps a little.
20:14 jwagner     probably people pasting code in, like <! -- etc.
20:14 chris       yep
20:15 jwagner     jdavidb++ for flinging
20:15 chris       jdavidb++
20:15 chris       public_repos++
20:15 jdavidb     woot!
20:15 chris_n     jdavidb++
20:15 jdavidb     @karma
20:15 munin       jdavidb: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10).  You (jdavidb) are ranked 18 out of 567.
20:15 jdavidb     wow!
20:15 jwagner     Wow, gone from 27 to 18???
20:17 chris       yeah its a long tail
20:19 |Lupin|     chris: our librarian asks me whether it is possible to see the recent additions to the catalogue on OPAC's start page... I don't know. Anyh idea pls ?
20:20 * chris_n   comes back in off of the xml tangent
20:20 chris_n     time to go back to work :-|
20:21 chris       yes
20:22 chris       is the short answer
20:22 chris       ill give you the long answer after work ;)
20:23 |Lupin|     chris: cool ! after work means tomorrow morning UTC+1 ?
20:24 chris       about 9 hours time from now
20:24 |Lupin|     hmm very early then here... not sure I'll be awaken...
20:25 |Lupin|     chris: do you want me to send you a reminder and thenperhaps you'd send me the response by email ?
20:25 chris       can do
20:25 jwagner     jdavidb had dome some development for a new books list -- is that ready to fling out too?
20:26 jdavidb     The first rev of it is.  I have some enhancements in mind, that I may or may not get too any time soon.
20:26 jdavidb     It's not *beautiful*, but it works.  Someone else might love on it and make it wonderful.
20:34 |Lupin|     jdavidb: what is it exactly that you have developed ?
20:35 jdavidb     a front-page addon for new titles.  It's got several sysprefs attached, for flexibility in setup--lets you exclude a group of item types, title the box how you want, that kind of thing.
20:36 jdavidb     It looks like a hitlist result, right now.  I want to do a shelf-browser-looking thing, as V2.
20:36 jdavidb     Sysprefs also let you say how many days something is "new", and how many items to put on the front page.
20:37 jdavidb     You can say, 21 days, and 10 items, and it'll list the ten newest titles in the catalog, unless they're older than 21 days.
20:40 rhcl        @seen kyle
20:40 munin       rhcl: kyle was last seen in #koha 8 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 24 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <kyle> It wouldn't be a bad idea to add the messages to the Borrower Details screen as well.
20:40 rhcl        Hummm, where's kyle been lately?
20:40 chris       he isnt usually on #koha
20:40 chris       never really has been
20:41 chris       email is your best bet
20:41 rhcl        Yea, I wanted to chat with him about his kiosk app.
20:42 * jwagner   is glad to be working from home this afternoon -- the traffic maps already look gruesome as the holiday traffic hits....
20:47 rhcl        found this note interesting: "Added koha2libki script to delete accounts in libki that no longer exist in koha."   http://libki.org/
20:53 hdl         |Lupin|: there is a recentacquisition page
20:54 hdl         you can get that in 3.0.5
21:07 |Lupin|     okay, back o real coding... see you later all !
21:13 owen        Happy Thanksgiving, US folks, and happy rest-of-the-week all others!
21:15 hdl         happy thanksgiving
21:15 * chris_n   heads out for the holiday
21:19 Ropuch      yay
21:21 jwagner     Yes, for non-USians, you probably won't see many of us until next week.  Four-day weekends are nice :-)
21:23 Ropuch      My Koha presentation on Open Solaris is considered the best one
21:24 * Ropuch    is proud ;>
21:24 chris       wooo well done Ropuch
21:24 chris       maybe you can give that presentation at kohacon next year :-)
21:24 chris       jwagner: have a good break
21:25 chris       todays theme song
21:25 chris       http://listen.grooveshark.com/#/song/Lightning/23019967
21:26 Ropuch      chris: if my boss will buy me ticket ;>
21:26 chris       :) can't hurt to ask
21:27 Ropuch      Actually I've always wanted to visit that part of the world
21:27 Ropuch      so I'm seriously considering holiday trip plus kohacon [;
21:32 chris       good idea
21:32 chris       october is a good time to visit, not overrun by tourists
21:47 henrybankh  I am having a problem with my symbolic link between apache2 and koha-httpd.conf
21:48 henrybankh  and  NameVirtualHost *:80 has no VirtualHosts
21:50 henrybankh  I think my problems involve sudo a2dissite default, how do I undo it's effects?
22:00 jwagner     Happy Thanksgiving everyone -- see you next week.
22:04 Ropuch      a2ensite?
22:05 Ropuch      a2ensite is opposite to a2dissite
22:05 Ropuch      bah
22:05 Ropuch      Good night everubody
22:11 henrybankh  I tried a2ensite also
22:12 henrybankh  but I still get  NameVirtualHost *:80 has no VirtualHosts
22:28 hdl         henrybankh: you should disable NameVirtualhost in /etc/apache2/ports.conf
23:19 henrybankh  by commenting it out# and then restart aapche?
23:21 hdl         yes
23:21 henrybankh  thanks--I thry now
23:22 henrybankh  so good, when I restarted apache no error
23:24 henrybankh  but I get the 404 error when I go to local host
23:26 henrybankh  so my sym links are messed up I think
23:29 hdl         henrybankh: maybe your default vhost is messing up with your opac
23:33 henrybankh  hdl: I think my default is missing? I don't see a default in sites-enabled only koha
23:35 henrybankh  hdl: In sites available I have abroken symbolic link also