Time  Nick            Message
00:00 imp             *wait*
00:00 imp             \o/
00:01 imp             it's still slow like a slug :/
00:01 imp             but it's working :)
00:01 imp             thanks pianohacker :)
00:08 pianohackr|work np :)
00:09 pianohackr|work You most likely got used to high performance with mod_perl
00:09 pianohackr|work but that is really not well supported
00:09 imp             didn't even notice a differnce between both
00:09 imp             it was slow before
00:09 pianohackr|work on 3.0.1 ?
00:09 imp             yes
00:09 pianohackr|work ah
00:11 imp             maybe i'm expecting too much from the machine, dunno
00:13 pianohackr|work Koha can be a bit slow currently
00:13 pianohackr|work Fixing that is one of the priorities for 3.4
00:14 imp             just saw 7 seconds cpu time for a perlscript
00:15 pianohackr|work Not entirely out of bounds. What specs on the machine?
00:16 imp             500mz sparc, 256mb ram (might be a little bit small, but no problems so far) -> http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/validateUser.do?target=Systems/Netra_T1_AC200_shared/spec
00:16 imp             s/mz/mhz/
00:17 pianohackr|work Yeah, 7 seconds for some of koha's scripts sounds about right for something of that speed
00:18 imp             why does it burn so much cputime? ;)
00:19 pianohackr|work oh, so many reasons. XML config file, lots of uncached database calls, etc etc
00:21 imp             db access isn't that much (but only based on a quick look on the process infos)
00:21 pianohackr|work It's more several cumulative wasteful things than one particular culprit
00:21 imp             anyway, need to sleep now :/
00:21 pianohackr|work Good night, glad it's working
00:22 imp             ^^
01:05 pianohackr|work hi, brendan, Jo
01:05 brendan         Hi doctor
01:06 chris           heh
01:06 pianohackr|work committee member is closer, I keep coming up with grand plans and never finishing them
01:07 brendan         pianohackr|work - I'll stop calling you doctor sometime soon
01:07 brendan         by that time you will be a PH.D though
01:07 pianohackr|work right after I take off my bones outfit
01:07 pianohackr|work heh. Don't know if I want to stay in college that long, but that could change :)
01:09 pianohackr|work chris: I have a partially-implemented design for a new marc_subfields_structure.display column where the editor can say something nice and sane like $subfieldlib->{'display'} | DISPLAY_SUBFIELD_EDITOR
01:09 pianohackr|work Instead of -5 <= hidden < 6
01:09 pianohackr|work * ... ->{'display'} & DISPLAY_SUBFIELD_EDITOR, rather
01:33 chris_n2        pianohackr|work: grand plans or grand pianos?
01:33 pianohackr|work I do wish I had a grand piano. You really can tell the difference between a well-made grand and an upright
01:33 pianohackr|work so grand plans :)
01:56 pianohackr|work bbl, headed home
02:12 chris_n2        heya brendan
02:22 Stang           Hello
02:22 Stang           Is anyone here?
02:23 mason           im about stang...
02:23 mason           whats up?
02:23 Stang           I need some help with a project and I'm going to do my project on Koha so if anyone has any more information on this ILS it would be appreciated, just let me know
02:23 Stang           ok
02:24 Stang           I'm trying to create a project proposal which would hypothetically use Koha in a library system
02:24 Stang           so I have several questions here
02:24 Stang           about how long does it take to install koha
02:25 brendan         howdy
02:25 mason           depends on whos doing it.. ;)
02:25 Stang           "Estimation of completion time and costs"
02:25 Stang           I know the cost for koha is pretty much free
02:26 mason           including OS, hardware, mysql-tuning ?
02:26 Stang           because it's open source
02:26 Stang           and costs may come down to installation or maintenance
02:26 Stang           i just don't know estimated completion time to install this system
02:26 mason           apache tuning, etc...
02:26 Stang           so operating systems and hardware would also qualify as cost?
02:26 Stang           ok
02:27 mason           10 -20  hours , would be a good ball-park number, i think..
02:28 mason           your question are probably best answered if you send it the 'koha' and 'koha-devel' mailing-lists
02:28 Stang           if I have any more questions about Koha I will let you all know
02:29 Stang           thx all
02:29 mason           np, try the mailing-lists first
02:29 mason           you'll get a better cross-section of results
02:30 Stang           ok
02:32 mason           "so operating systems and hardware would also qualify as cost?"
02:32 mason           if youve got to pay someone to set those up , then yes ;)
02:33 mason           theres a reasonable amount of OS-level prep before the koha install proper
02:34 mason           deb packages, perl/cpan updating, etc...
02:35 Stang           k
02:35 Stang           is there a site that has more information on the prep of the os before installation
02:40 chris_n2        g'night #koha
02:46 pianohacker     good night
03:21 Amit            hi chris, chris_n2, mason
03:21 Amit            good morning #koha
03:42 brendan         Heya Amit
03:42 Amit            heya brendan
03:43 brendan         how are you doing amit
03:43 brendan         I saw the note about another library in India going live with koha
03:43 Amit            everything is fine here
03:43 Amit            yes
03:43 Amit            christ university library
03:43 Amit            i think biggest academic library in india which we have done
03:43 brendan         that's great
03:43 brendan         :)
03:44 Amit            i think next month delhi public library server is available like z39.50 server first in india
03:45 brendan         excellent
04:39 pianohacker     good night
06:49 Ropuch          Good morning #koha
07:12 Amit            hi ropuch
08:18 richard         hi
08:23 chris           hi richard
08:23 richard         hey chris
08:29 kf              good morning #koha
08:58 Ropuch          Guten Tag, kf
09:00 kf              guten morgen Ropuch :)
09:25 Amit            heya kf
09:26 imp             heyho
11:28 kf              lunch time :)
11:59 mahesh          hello all
11:59 mahesh          i have problem with koha
12:00 mahesh          search is not working with opac and Intranet
12:28 kf              mahesh: have you chosen zebra or nozebra during install? zebra requires cronjobs and zebresrv running
12:28 mahesh          zebra
12:29 mahesh          i did a rebuild_zebra also
12:29 mahesh          its showing a [warn]
12:29 mahesh          16:24:45-18/11 zebraidx(5988) [warn] Index 'any' not found in attset(s)
12:30 mahesh          but still no results
12:34 mahesh          but journal search is working
12:40 kf              I think your zebra is not running correctly
12:40 mahesh          how can i check it ?
12:40 kf              uh, im sorry, I am not sure
12:40 kf              perhaps someone else can help out?
12:41 |Lupin|         hi there
12:42 kf              hi lupin
12:42 |Lupin|         guten nachmitag kf :)
12:43 mahesh          how can i disable zebra ?
12:43 kf              mahesh: perhaps this thread can help you: http://old.nabble.com/Cron-Daemon-Warning-td22472776.html
12:43 kf              its about the same error message
12:43 mahesh          ok
12:46 |Lupin|         are the barcodes calculated on the server, or in the client, for new items, please ?
12:57 hdl             |Lupin|: serverside
12:58 hdl             mahesh: I think it is owed to dom authorities configuration.
12:58 hdl             mahesh: it misses an
12:58 hdl             any even
12:59 mahesh          how can correct it . i am not familiar with that .
13:00 jwagner         I have an indexing question for anyone who understands zebra.  One of my sites wants to set off a particular group of items/titles, and it doesn't quite work to give them normal item type or collection code settings.  I tried to set it up so that the 590a would be indexed in the ccode index, thinking I could then fake a ccode search for a particular code -- e.g., mc-ccode:GRANTCOLL.  I've reindexed etc., but a search for that doesn't find anything.  (A r
13:01 |Lupin|         hdl: yeah but it's in the additem.pl script, I think. And since I replaced it by a home-made one, my barcodes are not computed correctly. Actually I thought the calculation would take place somewhere deeper in Koha...
13:02 hdl             jwagner: I can surely help.
13:03 hdl             would you mind showing your 590$a line and see if there is any melm 590 line in your record.abs
13:04 jwagner         Yes, I added the 590a line -- just a sec while I get logged in to find it.
13:05 mahesh          hdl: how can i disable zebra in koha 3 ?
13:06 jwagner         hdl, the record.abs line is melm 590$a      ccode -- I copied the 952$8 line.
13:08 jwagner         A manual search for a "real" collection code works (e.g., mc-ccode:BOOK), so I'm guessing there's something that's checking any mc-ccode search against the list of policies.
13:16 chris_n         |Lupin| it depends on the syspref for auto generating barcodes
13:17 chris_n         |Lupin|: there is a code in the additem.pl script, but also plugins which are eval'd depending on the syspref
13:17 chris_n         but both are server side
13:18 chris_n         it's rather convoluted and not pretty atm iirc
13:23 |Lupin|         k, till soon everybody
13:23 |Lupin|         bye
13:31 chris_n         hi owen
13:31 owen            Hi
14:04 Nate            good morning #Koha!
14:06 chris_n         howdy Nate, top of the morning to you :-)
14:07 chris_n         or whatever time of the day it is at your locale
14:25 Nate            same to you chris_n!
14:56 chris_n         arggg....
14:57 * chris_n       has somehow lost hours of code in a commit which appears to contain empty files >:-(
14:57 chris_n         if that is so, this will not be a good day
15:06 hdl             git fsck can help you
15:06 * chris_n       definitely needs help atm :-P
15:34 jwagner         @quote random
15:34 munin           jwagner: Quote #23: "<gmcharlt> /msg munin register nick password" (added by wizzyrea_ at 12:25 PM, August 06, 2009)
15:34 jwagner         @quote random
15:34 munin           jwagner: Quote #45: "<CGI988> sekjal - you are a genious!!!!! asking me about the browser!!!! yes it's the #$%$#%$#ing IE was messing my cataloguing, oh I hate miscrosoft, the evil!" (added by gmcharlt at 02:00 PM, November 05, 2009)
15:41 jdavidb         @quote random
15:41 munin           jdavidb: Quote #31: "<@gmcharlt> but hacking Koha *should* be a restful part of any vacation ;)" (added by chris at 07:31 PM, September 02, 2009)
15:43 chris_n         lol
15:47 chris_n         hdl: any wisdom on how to apply git fsck to my situation?
15:47 chris_n         I see a number of dangling blobs
15:47 chris_n         and one commit
15:49 hdl             git log -p -n1 your commit id
15:52 chris_n         well the situation is more hopeless as the commit contains empty files :-(
16:01 hdl             chris_n : are you sure you commited ?
16:03 pastebot        "chris_n" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "git log" (14 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/61
16:03 chris_n         hdl: ^^
16:05 hdl             the commit is a snapshot of your tree
16:06 hdl             mmmm
16:06 hdl             maybe digging into objects.
16:06 hdl             but then you would need #git assitance
16:06 hdl             not mine
16:06 chris_n         I tried doing 'git reset --soft HEAD~3' to roll back before the commit
16:07 chris_n         but the files still show up blank... and I know I was not dreaming when all of that code worked... ;-)
16:07 chris_n         I'll wander over to #git and see what comes up
16:07 chris_n         tnx
16:52 LadyNight32     hola a todos
16:53 owen            Hi LadyNight32
16:53 LadyNight32     hi
16:54 LadyNight32     alguien que hable espaƱol?
16:55 LadyNight32     I am from Cuba
17:39 chris_n         hdl: well it appears through some unknown sequence of keystrokes or just dumb blind misfortune, my code is lost
17:40 jdavidb         :((
17:40 chris_n         I can retrace exactly what I did, but the present state of my repo makes no sense in light of it
17:40 hdl             chris_n sorry
17:40 chris_n         #git is at a loss as well it appears
17:40 * chris_n       reaches for another box of tissues :-(
17:41 hdl             mmm... could have been a problem of file permissions for reading.
17:41 chris_n         and the changes got pushed to my github repo over night.... so much for backups
17:53 brendan         oh man
17:53 brendan         doesn't sound too good there chris_n
17:58 chris_n         yeah, I think I abused git a little too much on this one and confused it
18:15 jwagner         One of my sites found a brand new holds bug, I think -- see Bug 3792
18:15 munin           04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3792 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, Checking out on-hold item to someone else replaces item-level hold with next available
18:15 jwagner         Any ideas?
18:38 chris           sure sounds like a bug to me
18:39 chris           hdl: i sent a patch to fix the internal server error on detail.pl with invalid biblionumber, do you want me to cherry-pick and submit for 3.0.x as well
18:39 chris           (if you are still awake)
19:37 richard         hi
19:44 chris           morning richard
19:44 richard         hi chris
19:44 brendan         morning richard
19:45 richard         hi brendan
19:45 richard         and everyone :)
19:45 brendan         :)
20:02 Jo              Morning all
20:02 richard         hi jo
20:05 * mdhafen       needs some help with make.
20:06 mdhafen         I have a value with a '$', but it doesn't make it to the koha-conf.xml
20:07 mdhafen         I see it at the bottom of Makefile as 'export __VARIABLE__ := $10000' but make renders it as '__VARIABLE__ =000'
20:08 mdhafen         is it export, or is it in rewrite-config.pl ?
20:09 chris           im guessing in the perl
20:09 mdhafen         That's kinda what I'm thinking too.  I'll have to take a closer look at rewrite-config.pl
20:26 mdhafen         nope, looks like it's the export.  I added a warn to rewrite-config.PL.  In the Makefile it's $1000, but when rewrite-config.PL checks $ENV it's 000
20:29 mdhafen         I've tried adding single quotes to the Makefile too, that doesn't work either.  It ends up as '000'
20:29 chris           slash?
20:30 chris           \$100000
20:30 chris           ?
20:30 mdhafen         hmm, yeah, I'll try that
20:31 mdhafen         apparently not, I got \000
20:32 * mdhafen       thinks this is a good time to also consult google ;)
20:33 chris           yup :)
20:44 hdl             jwagner bug 3792 has a similar bug defined
20:44 munin           04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3792 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, Checking out on-hold item to someone else replaces item-level hold with next available
20:44 hdl             chris please cherry-pick directly
20:45 chris           will do
20:49 chris           ahhh 3.0.x doesnt have the problem its ok
20:49 hdl             jwagner: see 2830
20:49 hdl             should be the same.
20:49 hdl             I wanted to fix that for 3.0.4 and then for 3.0.5
20:49 hdl             But had no time.
20:50 hdl             I could ask nahuel to do it he had some ideas about that and a clear vision of C4/Reserves.pm but might take time as well
20:51 jwagner         hdl, I saw 2830, but it seemed to be the reverse -- comment #2 says it's going back into the holds queue as a copy specific instead of next available.  I'm guessing it's probably related, though.
20:56 wizzyrea        wait...
20:57 jwagner         Not very long 'cause I'm about to hit the road :-)
20:57 wizzyrea        I don't think you can specify the behavvior either way
20:57 wizzyrea        because we would WANT it to be title level if that happened
20:57 wizzyrea        which is probably what 2830 is saying...
20:58 wizzyrea        yes, yes it is
20:58 jwagner         No, the problem my people are having is that an item-specific hold suddenly becomes a title level hold, which is a problem if they're trying to reserve one particular issue of a journal, for example.
20:58 wizzyrea        right, but if you change it
20:59 wizzyrea        then that would break the way we use it (or want it to work)
20:59 wizzyrea        seewhatimean?
20:59 wizzyrea        i'm not saying what your library wants is wrong
20:59 wizzyrea        it's totally right, for them
20:59 jwagner         no.  Why wouldn't you want to keep an item-level hold as item-level?
21:00 wizzyrea        sorry, thinking... we can talk more about it later
21:00 wizzyrea        let me think about this
21:01 wizzyrea        have a good evening
21:01 chris           it should be an option
21:01 wizzyrea        :)
21:01 jwagner         Yes, let's talk tomorrow.  I've got to brave the Beltway traffic now....
21:01 chris           libraries act in retarded ways all the time
21:01 wizzyrea        good luck, jwagner
21:01 wizzyrea        may the force be with you
21:01 chris           but its best to just let them
21:01 chris           is my theory
21:02 jwagner         But this one makes sense to me -- an item-level hold should STAY an item-level hold.  Same for a title-level hold.
21:02 chris           liz is saying they want an item level to change to title level
21:03 wizzyrea        if it has been checked out
21:03 wizzyrea        to another patron
21:03 chris           so you cant fix it for someone and break it for someone else
21:03 chris           too much of that happens with koha
21:03 wizzyrea        we may be talking about two different things, which is why I'm thinking about it
21:03 * chris         looks in the direction of ohio
21:04 wizzyrea        in NExpress, we really try to avoid starting out with item level holds
21:04 jwagner         Right, but I don't understand why you would want it to change to a title level hold.  Our particular case is journal issues, for example.  If you've put a hold on Vol 32. No 5, you don't want it satisfied by Vol 31. No 2.
21:04 wizzyrea        why would you have those on the same bib? (this may be a dumb question)
21:05 wizzyrea        (and I am not really sure how we do it)
21:05 jwagner         Because it's the same title?
21:05 chris           this all worked fine in koha 1
21:05 chris           cos you had group level holds
21:05 chris           so if you had 2 copies of Vol 32. No 5
21:06 chris           you could place a group level reserve, and either of those would satisfy it
21:06 wizzyrea        oh those halcyon days
21:06 chris           the problem with item level, say you have 28 copies
21:06 chris           of the same thing
21:06 jwagner         Hmmm.  But a checkin of something outside that group wouldn't fill the hold?
21:06 chris           (in a consortia quite possible)
21:06 chris           jwagner: thats right
21:07 wizzyrea        that would probably be an enhancement to the special holds rules
21:07 wizzyrea        (walkin, local hold)
21:07 wizzyrea        etc
21:07 jwagner         Well, that sounds like a useful feature.  I take it that it bit the dust with later versions?
21:07 wizzyrea        so you were looking at both macro and micro title
21:07 chris           it died when we started storing marc interntally
21:07 wizzyrea        i may have to draw myself a picture
21:07 chris           koha used to have a three tier structure, biblio, biblioitem and item
21:08 chris           1 to many, 1 to many
21:08 chris           now its 1 to 1, 1 to many
21:08 jwagner         (one biblio, one biblioitem, many items?)
21:08 chris           thats how it is now
21:08 chris           cos marc doesnt understand manifestations of the same work
21:09 chris           or similair work
21:09 chris           we'll get back there, its a tradeoff, internal marc support, breaking the group model
21:09 wizzyrea        i am pretty sure, that in the case of magazines, each month has a bib, and every library adds their copy to that bib
21:09 wizzyrea        this may be the wrong method of handling it
21:10 chris           now we just have to reimplement groups
21:10 jwagner         That would mean that you get gazillions of hits in the hitlist, if you search that title?
21:10 wizzyrea        (that's in NExpress)
21:10 chris           yes
21:10 wizzyrea        yes
21:10 chris           so the solution for that
21:10 chris           well a solution
21:10 wizzyrea        but you could say Time, january
21:10 chris           is a meta record
21:10 chris           that groups biblio records together
21:10 wizzyrea        I will have to do a little looking into how we do that
21:11 chris           so you can group all the months together, and the search displays just one row
21:11 chris           this doesnt exist in koha yet
21:11 chris           but its on my list
21:11 chris           personally i hate nothing more than getting 6 rows of the same item
21:11 wizzyrea        BUT, I can say that once an item is assigned to a patron, it essentially becomes an item level hold, and if that item is checked out to another patron, we WANT it to go back to being a title level, instead of waiting in the queue for that specific item
21:12 chris           *nod*
21:12 jwagner         Yes, a de-duping routine of some kind would be nice.
21:12 chris           that is the problem right there wizzyrea
21:12 wizzyrea        i'm afraid that if you fixed all item level holds to only map back to item level holds, that functionality would break
21:12 jwagner         So it sounds like fixing it the way we want really wouldn't work for you, wizzyrea.
21:12 wizzyrea        right, that's what I was trying to get across, I think
21:12 chris           once a hold is marked waiting, its switched to item-level from title
21:12 chris           but if it gets issued, it needs to go back to title
21:13 jwagner         I have one of the programmers looking at it now.  Sounds like we could either do it as a local fix, or maybe make it controlled by one of the all-proliferating sysprefs?
21:13 chris           consequently, if it started as item at the start, it should stay item
21:13 chris           its a trickier problem than it seems
21:13 jwagner         Sounds like it :-(
21:13 chris           to do it properly, you need to know the state the reserve started in
21:13 chris           not how it is now
21:13 chris           if that makes sense
21:14 wizzyrea        yes yes yes
21:14 jwagner         It makes sense.  Does the barcode in the reserves table change if it gets assigned?
21:14 wizzyrea        thank you, I knew there was something there that made my gut go EEKS!
21:15 chris           in the case of a title level hold, an item now gets assigned
21:15 jwagner         I know if you place an item-level hold to begin with, it embeds the barcode.  The hold isn't triggered yet when our problem starts, it's still sitting there as priority 1.  So at that point, if there's a barcode, it should be because it was set that way.
21:15 chris           yep, but a barcode gets set once an item is marked waiting
21:15 wizzyrea        I think this is a case for a special hold rule
21:15 wizzyrea        I really do
21:15 chris           so if you just check that, a title level hold that is waiting, looks the same as an item-level
21:15 jwagner         So if there's a barcode but the "waiting" flag isn't set yet, keep the hold as an item-level, otherwise make title-level?
21:16 * wizzyrea      thinks that would work
21:16 * wizzyrea      is still thinking...
21:17 wizzyrea        that seems logical to me, insomuch as my puny brain can grasp it
21:17 jwagner         chris, do you think that would be enough of a safeguard?
21:17 chris           that oughta work
21:18 wizzyrea        i like this, actually
21:18 mdhafen         what about the constraint column in reserves?  I believe it was used for group reserves, but I don't know what it's for now.  Maybe targetted holds?
21:18 jwagner         OK, I think I'll summarize the discussion in the bug report & see if anyone else has any input.  Tomorrow.  I've really gotta hit the road now....
21:18 chris           there used to be a field
21:18 wizzyrea        bye jwagner, sorry to make you late :)
21:19 chris           that had either an a
21:19 chris           or an o in it
21:19 chris           a = all
21:19 jwagner         We'll just hope the traffic give me a break...
21:19 chris           o = only the ones specified in constraints
21:19 chris           if that is still in use, all you need to check is that column
21:19 mdhafen         right.  Maybe that field could be re-purposed to track the original state of the hold?
21:20 mdhafen         I suspect it is still in use, but I'm not certain.  I don't see many item-level holds
21:20 wizzyrea        we don't either
21:20 wizzyrea        i can say it's relatively annoying that holds become true item level once assigned
21:21 wizzyrea        they're hard to work around, those irritating exceptions that make ILS's so hard to write
21:21 mdhafen         chris is right, if the field is still in use it would indicate if a reserve was originally item level
21:22 mdhafen         I think
21:23 mdhafen         the reservecontraints table doesn't have itemnumber though, so maybe that isn't right.
21:23 mdhafen         be cool if it did though.
21:23 mdhafen         reserve constraints could be expanded to track item-level holds too.
21:23 wizzyrea        so I've been thinking more about that weird status deal we looked at yesterday
21:24 wizzyrea        it said that the issuingbranch was SIPTERM, even though we don't have an issuing branch of SIPTERM ?!
21:24 wizzyrea        we have users named sipterm...
21:25 mdhafen         chris:  I found the manual for make.  Looks like anything with a $ is a variable in make, except $$.  I'm going to try that now.
21:27 mdhafen         chris: yeah, $$1000 ends up $1000.  Maybe Makefile.PL::_get_value needs to be checking for '$'?
21:28 chris           yeah sounds likely
21:31 mdhafen         chris: yeah, a simple s/\$/\$\$/g before the return in _get_value should do the trick.  I make a patch for that.
21:34 mdhafen         nope, the prev-install-log value is missed that way.  Have to add that to that block too
22:19 chris_n2        g'evening
22:28 brendan         evening chris_n2
22:28 wizzyrea        hi chris
22:28 wizzyrea        _n2
22:28 wizzyrea        it gets so confusing!
22:28 wizzyrea        ;)
22:29 * chris_n2      gets confused by himself on occasion too :-)
23:09 chris           hiya Nate
23:09 Nate            hey chris!
23:09 Nate            how goes it
23:10 chris           not too bad, just finished a big rfi so thats good
23:11 Nate            that always feels like a weight off the shoulders!
23:12 chris           hell yeah
23:18 Nate            ok I just popped on for a sec time to munch some pizza
23:19 Nate            ive got a 1 year old comming over so ive got to kiddy-proof the house
23:19 chris_n2        heh... good luck
23:20 Nate            thanks
23:20 Nate            im gonna need it
23:35 * chris_n2      's virtual box install becomes a virtual disaster :-P