Time  Nick          Message
00:00 mason         awwww, thanks ian
00:07 Nate          goodnight # Koha!
02:42 chris_n2      any thoughts on what the problem might be here:
02:42 chris_n2      18:35:20-11/11 [warn] Record didn't contain match fields in (bib1,Local-number)
02:42 chris_n2      18:35:20-11/11 [log] error grs.marcxml.record C:\DOCUME~1\Me\LOCALS~1\Temp\UPfnH9F7VQ/biblio/expo
02:42 chris_n2      rted_records 753800
02:43 chris         missing bib numbers? or bib numbers in the wrong field?
02:43 chris_n2      so that is what the warn is telling me?
02:44 chris         *nod*
03:04 chris_n2      chris: is there some sort of regex filtering of the isbn before it is inserted into the biblioitems table?
03:04 chris         its plausible
03:05 chris         i dont know for sure
03:05 * chris_n2    sees some things like: 0802452965 (v.
03:05 chris_n2      which should be 0802452965
03:05 chris_n2      bulkmarcimport seems to botch the isbn up even more
03:06 chris_n2      coming up with things like: 8476452438 (v.1) | 8476453221 (v.2)
03:34 Amit          hi chris_n2, chris
03:34 Amit          good morning #koha
03:35 chris_n2      hello Amit
03:35 * chris_n2    is up too late again
03:36 chris_n2      chris: should I expect to encounter some problems when exporting records from one koha install and importing them into another?
03:37 chris         hmm i wouldnt have thought so, but maybe the export mucked something up
03:53 Amit          heya brendan
03:53 brendan       Hi Amit
03:53 brendan       good day to you
03:58 chris_n2      chris: the issue appears to be with bibs with multiple 020 fields
03:59 chris         ah
03:59 chris_n2      maybe a bug?
03:59 chris         sounds like it might be
03:59 chris_n2      should the export/import routine handle this case?
03:59 chris         im not sure, i think you need someone who understands marc more than i do
03:59 chris_n2      there also seems to lack some normalization
03:59 chris_n2      galen?
04:00 chris         yeah galen or thd
04:00 * chris_n2    is the farthest thing from a marc guru :-P
04:03 chris_n2      my problem is every time I find a bug I want to fix it immediately
04:03 * chris_n2    heads off to find sleep
06:44 Ropuch        Morning #koha
07:46 hdl           hi
08:17 kf            morning #koha
08:19 nahuel        http://k-int.blogspot.com/2008/05/exposing-solr-services-as-z3950-server.html
08:19 nahuel        hi kf
08:19 kf            hi Nahuel
08:45 chris         paul_p: did you know sebastien chabal is doing advertisements in nz, for a sports store ... i just saw it on tv
08:47 paul_p        chris: no.
08:47 * paul_p      leave for 2 hours, meeting with bank...
08:48 chris         ahh good luck, in case u need it
08:49 paul_p        chris: just going to negociate a line of 100k€ ;-)
08:51 chris         ahhh
09:04 * chris       is watching the twitter coverage of nengard speaking
09:04 chris         http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23fribib09
09:06 kf            chris: me too :)
09:07 Ropuch        [;
09:07 Ropuch        Guten tag kf, hello chris
09:07 Ropuch        s/tag/Tag
09:07 chris         hi Ropuch
09:08 kf            Guten Tag Ropuch
09:16 |Lupin|       good day folks !
09:18 kf            hi |Lupin|
09:21 |Lupin|       hello kf !
09:22 * |Lupin|     booting Windows... biam
09:35 Ropuch        Is there an agenda for the conference? I'd like to post a news about it on polish librarian forum
09:36 chris         lemme see if i can find it
09:37 Ropuch        Thanks
09:39 chris         http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Flibriotech.no%2F&tl=en
09:40 chris         http://libriotech.no/node/22
09:40 chris         http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Flibriotech.no%2Fnode%2F22&tl=en in english
09:41 Ropuch        Thanks chris
10:19 Ropuch        Livestream from Bergen is pretty good
10:19 chris         i couldnt get it to work
10:20 chris         i think that's a sign i should go to sleep
10:21 Ropuch        I'm only 1k kliometers from Bergen ;>
10:22 chris         ahh that makes sense, im about 1million :)
10:22 Ropuch        Yea, I know :)
10:22 chris         ok, good night
10:23 chris         have a good day europe :)
10:23 * chris       goes to bed
10:23 Ropuch        Hm, due to dns issues it's actually the only web services that works form me now ;>
10:23 Ropuch        Good night
10:26 |Lupin|       good night chris
10:42 CGI597        Trying to get the 856 tag (Online Resources) text to be linkable but open in another windows. I have tried adding some html into the feild but this won't work,. Does anyone know if this can be done?
10:45 |Lupin|       question for librarians
10:46 |Lupin|       could somebody pls tell me in which marc flavour the title is in 245 ?
10:46 |Lupin|       is that MARC21 style ?
10:47 CGI597        Well, 245 is a (one) title tag, yes. Is that what you mean?
10:47 Ropuch        Yep
10:48 |Lupin|       CGI597: does Koha know that the field is a link ? (cf. cataloguing framework...)
10:48 CGI597        Link? Do you mean link an Authority link?
10:48 |Lupin|       CGI597: I'm not sure... I get a MARC thing from a Z39.50 server and I'm not sure of the flavour...
10:49 CGI597        You saved a MARC record from a Z39.50 server? What are you trying to do with it?
10:49 |Lupin|       CGI597: no, a web link. In Koha you can say that a field contains a link, and if that is specified Koha will make it possible to click on the link... go to the cataloguing framewok array, search for your field and you shold be able to activate it as a link
10:50 |Lupin|       CGI597: trying to figure out the right syntax for the server :)
10:50 CGI597        I am getting confused!!! Are you helping me with the question I asked about opening in a new window?
10:50 Ropuch        CGI597: you can tweak the .tmpl to do this
10:52 CGI597        Oh, never thought of that. I can try and find it, but don't suppose you know which tmpl file offhand, do you? opac-results maybe?
10:54 Ropuch        opac-detail.tmpl
10:55 CGI597        cool, thanks
10:55 Ropuch        aaa
10:55 Ropuch        wair
10:55 Ropuch        Wait
10:55 CGI597        ok
10:55 CGI597        for what
10:55 Ropuch        I totally forgiot
10:55 Ropuch        Ypu don't have to ,mess with tmpl
10:56 CGI597        even better!
10:56 Ropuch        Just set the OPACURLOpenInNewWindow sypref ON
10:56 Ropuch        [;
10:56 CGI597        that easy!? super, will try that.
10:57 Ropuch        Guess I need coffee more than I thought
10:57 CGI597        um, it is on already but still opens in the same window
10:57 Ropuch        Hm
10:57 Ropuch        <!-- TMPL_IF NAME="OPACURLOpenInNewWindow" --><a href="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="MARCURL" -->" title="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="MARCURL" -->" target="_blank"><!-- TMPL_ELSE --><a href="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="MARCURL" -->" title="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="MARCURL" -->"><!-- /TMPL_IF -->
10:57 Ropuch        It's from my template
10:58 CGI597        from the opac-detail? I'll check
10:59 CGI597        yeah, strange. It's there on mine too.
11:00 Ropuch        Put <!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="OPACURLOpenInNewWindow" --> somewhere on opac-detail and see what it will show
11:01 CGI597        anywhere in that file?
11:02 Ropuch        <div class="results_summary"><span class="label">Online resources: <!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="OPACURLOpenInNewWindow" --></span>
11:02 Ropuch        Like that
11:02 Ropuch        You will know then when to look for it ;>
11:02 Ropuch        Setting OPACURLOpenInNewWindow works for me - the urls are opened in new windows
11:03 CGI597        Even more strange. I have done this and it still opens in the same window.
11:13 |Lupin|       back ! sorry, had network problems
11:13 |Lupin|       (a power failure actually)
11:14 |Lupin|       CGI597: did you find an answer for your URL problem ?
11:14 Ropuch        CGI597: you have any value after Online resources: ?
11:19 |Lupin|       hmm ok... given a marc record, is there a way to figure out which flavour it is, which encoding is used for the characters, etc. ?
11:19 |Lupin|       I assume there is no way, else Koha would deal with that by itself...
11:23 |Lupin|       k, editor in 260...
11:36 Ropuch        kf: I haven't noticed the onscreen hebrew keyboard on your opac before - I want to introduce koha to roclaw Study of Jewish Culture and Languages and I'm sure they will ask about hebrew titles
11:38 kf            Ropuch: its a simple solution, most code is the html table
11:38 kf            CGI597: which version of Koha are u using? is XSLt-display on?
11:40 Ropuch        kf: now I have working example
11:40 kf            Ropuch: I can send you a German howto
11:40 Ropuch        I wonder if any polsih commercial ILS can do this [;
11:40 Ropuch        kf: it would be great
11:41 Ropuch        I will inlude sshot from your library in my presentation for sure [;
11:41 kf            Ropuch: its still in our non-public wiki - but I am working on a public documentation too - its just a time problem. will send you a pdf as email
11:41 kf            Ropuch: thank you!
11:41 Ropuch        kf: thank you :)
11:44 Ropuch        I've just ordered Deutsch-Polnisches Sprachtandem : Aufgaben und Tipps f�r Anf�nger
11:45 Ropuch        We have a trainee in Centrum, he's learning polish, so we can help each other
11:45 kf            Ropuch: cool :) you can train a little with me too :)
11:46 Ropuch        Actually he's speaking polish very good after only one year course
11:46 Ropuch        kf: let me learn some basic first :)
11:47 kf            Ropuch: email sent
11:48 kf            Ropuch: my notes are in German, but I think you can just copy the code to sysprefs
11:49 Ropuch        kf: that is not a problem at all: I have lots of german speaking people around, pro translators and native geramn speaker included
11:49 Ropuch        [p;
11:52 kf            Ropuch: :)
11:58 kf            lunch time - bbl :)
12:01 CGI597        connection hung there, couldn't refresh.....anyway, I still didn't solve the OPACURL problem
12:46 kf            back
12:56 |Lupin|       is it possible with a Koha in Unimarc to receive and impor records in MARC21 from a Z39.50 server ? does Koha handle this correctly ?
13:04 nicomo_laptop |Lupin| not that I know of, there's no format translation on the fly
13:11 |Lupin|       nicomo_laptop: hmm! thanks :)
13:12 |Lupin|       nicomo_laptop: so if one attempts to do that, what happens ? fields are copied "blindly", so, say, MARC21 field 800 becomes unimarc field 800, no matter the semantics ?
13:12 nicomo_laptop as far as I gather, yes
13:13 nicomo_laptop it uses the default framework and tries to enter data in that
13:14 nicomo_laptop that being said, now that we have a unimarc xslt, and a marc21 xslt we could theoretically do something on the fly
13:14 |Lupin|       nicomo_laptop: ok...
13:15 |Lupin|       nicomo_laptop: and do you think there are conversions tools outside of Koha, open-source tools that I could tr to integrate somewhere somehow ?
13:16 nicomo_laptop I've been looking for that, but have not found any so far. I did not search thoroughly, though
13:17 |Lupin|       nicomo_laptop: I'm trying to understand how far the two dialects are from each other
13:17 |Lupin|       nicomo_laptop: is it just a matter of permutation of fields and subfields, or are there deeper semantic differences ?
13:18 nicomo_laptop on the biblio level, it's just permutation of fields/subfields
13:18 nicomo_laptop authorities are different
13:18 |Lupin|       nicomo_laptop: I see...
13:18 |Lupin|       So, a conversion tool would not be too difficult to write, would it ?
13:18 |Lupin|       nicomo_laptop: I think the mapping is documented on loc.gov...
13:19 nicomo_laptop Ask Kivutar, I think he started something on this
13:22 Kivutar       |Lupin|: http://www.loc.gov/marc/unimarctomarc21.html
13:23 Kivutar       and we started a marc21tounimarc.xslt
13:23 |Lupin|       Kivutar: ok this page is one thing, but is there some code that could be used to translate one into the other ?
13:24 |Lupin|       Kivutar: I don't understand why it is an xslt thing you did... for us we don't want to convert just for display... we want to convert when the records are sent by the Z39.50 server and then store them in Unimarc in Koha...
13:24 Kivutar       |Lupin|: xslt is not 'just for display' :)
13:25 nicomo_laptop XSLTransform
13:25 Kivutar       it'is a transformation language, you can get its output
13:26 |Lupin|       Kivutar: so when a record arrives, ou'd store it in MARCXML, transform it with the xslt, and then reload it... right ?
13:27 Kivutar       |Lupin|: yes, using an XSLT processor
13:28 |Lupin|       Kivutar: yep.
13:28 Kivutar       |Lupin|: http://pastebin.com/m609a935d
13:28 |Lupin|       Kivutar: what I don't really understand: why would this be preferable to just write something in Perl using the MARC::Record and MARC::Field modules ? wouldn't that be just lighter and easier to integrate to Koha ?
13:29 Kivutar       good question
13:29 Kivutar       the good thing with xslt is its portability
13:29 Kivutar       you can't let users upload perl scripts on your server right?
13:29 Kivutar       but you can let them specify an xslt url
13:30 Kivutar       for the same result (and more code) you get security
13:30 |Lupin|       Kivutar: hmm... for somehting intended to be integrated to Koha, I'm not sure requiring an additional dependency over an XSLT processor is more interesting than having a native Perl translator... unless Koha already depends on an XSLT processor for something ?
13:31 Kivutar       I think it does
13:31 |Lupin|       Kivutar: why should users have to upload something ? as I see it this converter should be integrated into Koha...
13:32 |Lupin|       Kivutar: ah but I think I understand your point... it's because not every body will want to do the mapping the same way, right ?
13:32 Kivutar       |Lupin|: first they don't need to upload, just specify an url
13:32 |Lupin|       Kivutar: so for you some flexibility has to be left to the user regarding the way the mapping is done...
13:32 Kivutar       |Lupin|: if they want to specify the url for a MARC21toDANMARK.xlst they can
13:33 |Lupin|       Kivutar: you mean they can with the curent version of Koha ?
13:34 Kivutar       |Lupin|: not with the current version, but if we choose to use xslt for convertion, then they will be able
13:35 Kivutar       and we could do the same thing for pdf generation with xsl-fo :)
13:36 Kivutar       that would be great
13:37 |Lupin|       Kivutar (or nicomo?): is the MARC21toUNIMARC.xsl file mentionned in your code available somewhere ?
13:40 Kivutar       |Lupin|: not released yet, it is not finished and I must say I am not proud of how I coded it =/
13:40 Nate          good morning #Koha!
13:41 jwagner       good morning Nate & everyone.
13:42 |Lupin|       Kivutar: I see...
13:51 Roger         Hi there! There is someone who can help me? I have a simple doubt.
13:52 jdavidb       Several who might be able to, Roger, depending on the problem.
13:52 Roger         Ok
13:53 Roger         I just wanna know.. can I install koha in a windows server?
13:54 jdavidb       It can be done; it has been done.  It's *not* easy or trivial, as I understand it.  I have not ever done it, myself.
13:54 Roger         ok
13:55 Roger         indeed I wanted to install it in a simple windows xp
13:55 Roger         I don't need more than this, my library is very small
13:56 Roger         have you heard about this was already done before?
13:57 jdavidb       Oh, yeah, it's been done plenty.    I suggest looking at this page on the koha wiki:  http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=kohaonwindows
13:58 Roger         Yes, thank you very much for your help!
13:58 jdavidb       You bet.  :)  Glad I could be of service.
14:02 jwagner       question for people on calendars and branches -- it looks the the system obeys the calendar of the branch _owning_ the item when checking it out (for closed dates, etc.), rather than the calendar of the patron.  Is that the case, and is there a way to change it?
14:03 jwagner       We have a library where patrons can borrow items belonging to any branches, but the branches are closed different days than the main library.  This is resulting in different due dates for items checked out on the same day, because one item belongs to main & another to a branch.
14:05 owen          Sounds like a bug... Wouldn't you always want the due date to be set according to the issuing branch?
14:05 kf            CircControl
14:05 jwagner       I'm not sure -- I wanted to get input from people who have more experience with multi-branch systems than I do.
14:06 kf            I think the syspref CircControl is used for things like that
14:06 jwagner       kf, you're right -- the circcontrol syspref is set to item home library.  What are the implications of changing that to patron library?  I think it has broader effects than just due dates.
14:07 kf            I have only 1 branch per installation (and glad about it) , so I never tested it
14:08 kf            but I think the calendar uses it too (I think I saw it in the code for notices/fines)
14:09 owen          jwagner: I only find references to that preference in Circulation.pm and fines.pl, FWIW
14:10 jwagner       I seem to remember it also affects holds and circ rules.  Have to do some testing....  Thanks.
14:10 kf            jwagner: I think there is also a new syspref for reserves in head, with similar choices
14:11 Ropuch        Hm, correspondence in x subfield instead of v
14:11 Ropuch        Polish use of MARC21 is creepy sometimes
14:11 hdl           jwagner: Maybe you should set CircControl to PickupLibrary in your cas rather than ItemHomeLibrary in your case
14:12 jwagner       Thanks, we'll do some experimenting on it.
14:13 Ropuch        kf: what german z3950 server can you recommend? I'm using z3950.gbv.de atm
14:13 kf            Ropuch: oh, can you give me the date for that one?
14:14 Ropuch        kf: sure
14:14 kf            Ropuch: you know, there are several union catalogs in Germany, I work for SWB, but not sure if MARC21-Z39.50 is already publicly available
14:17 kf            Ropuch: hm, problem is, we already have 3 MARC21 formats here
14:18 Ropuch        We had 2 few years ago, but national library managed to switch to MARC21
14:19 kf            I am speaking of MARC21
14:19 Ropuch        Noticed it now
14:20 kf            we have something like 'worldcat format' without $0 $w (ids for authority / title linking), DNB withoug ISBD punctuation and for ILS (which is for Koha with ISBD punctuation and $0, $w etc.)
14:22 owen          I love it when I see notes on a patron's account that start this way: "DO NOT READ THIS NOTE OUT LOUD"
14:24 kf            :)
14:24 paul_p        owen: lol
14:24 jwagner       reminds me of some test notes I used with message creation -- being excessively grumpy one day, I set up a note that read "Patron is a PITA" (meaning Pain In The Ass).
14:24 paul_p        and good morning/afternoon/evening/night everybody
14:24 kf            Ropuch: I will check if our Z39.50 is accessible for you
14:25 owen          The sad thing is I know why the message had to start that way... Some people just can't seem to restrain themselves.
14:25 Ropuch        kf: thanks
14:25 paul_p        hdl: on peut skyper 2mn ?
14:27 chris_n       g'morning
14:43 kf            good morning chris_n
14:45 |Lupin|       I'm wondering what "breeding" means... can somebody explain, pls ?
14:45 |Lupin|       or perhaps give a tranlsation in french ?
14:46 kf            Lupin: context?
14:46 |Lupin|       kf: so the Breeding.pm module would be a kind of context ?
14:47 kf            hm.
14:48 kf            perhaps its related to staged marc import? or import? (not very sure here)
14:50 |Lupin|       kf: yeah it's definitely related to imports, that's how I came to it... I was just trying to clarify how...
14:50 |Lupin|       kf: thanks anyway !
14:58 Ropuch        I've just read that MS want to patent sudo ;>
15:06 * jdavidb     saw "skeeved" used in the Washington Post today, and though of wizzyrea, who was the first person he ever saw use it at all.
15:08 wizzyrea      LOL!
15:08 wizzyrea      nice!
15:09 jdavidb       first-screen-listed article, too, not some back-of-beyond link.
15:17 reiko         hi, sorry for abusing of this channel to ask questions but i can't find a solution for my problem: i'm running koha 3.00.01 and i'm having problems with authorities search: 1.Koha won't retrieve results for 3 of the 5 auth types we have 2. When i search for authorities using the parameter "all headings" i get an error 114 (attribute not suported), which probably refers to attr 1=Any.
15:20 wizzyrea      nah, we like abuse :)
15:21 wizzyrea      (though I'm sorry I don't have an answer for your question)
15:21 reiko         thank you wizzyrea
15:26 |Lupin|       I was wondering...
15:26 |Lupin|       is there a Koha conference planned for next year ?
15:29 Colin         reiko: You night want to look at the zebra config files for a later release. I'm sure there was a fix applied for it
15:30 wizzyrea      |Lupin| International KohaCon is going to be in New Zealand, I'm pretty sure
15:34 chris_n       git gurus: can I 'git merge working_branch testing_branch' to merge "test" work back into my working branch?
15:37 Colin         chris_n: yes
15:38 Colin         If you just want a couple of commits you can use git cherry-pick
15:39 chris_n       Colin: tnx
15:54 hdl           reiko: are you using DOM or GRS1 configuration ?
16:03 reiko         hdl DOM
16:04 reiko         i think, how can i check that hdl?
16:10 kf            ok - time to leave work :)  have a nice day/morning/evening everybody
16:12 hdl           reiko: you can check koha-conf.xml
16:12 hdl           And see if it refers to authorities-dom.xml
16:12 hdl           And see if it refers to authorities-dom.cfg
16:12 reiko         it does
16:12 hdl           If so, you are using DOM.
16:12 reiko         yeay!
16:12 reiko         but it isn't workin
16:12 hdl           Any is not defined in DOM mode
16:12 hdl           You have to use that.
16:13 hdl           sorry Add that
16:13 reiko         ah !
16:13 reiko         that explains 114 when searching with any
16:13 reiko         where do i need to add that?
16:13 hdl           in your index.xsl
16:14 reiko         authority-zebra-indexdefs or koha-indexdefs-to-zebra ?
16:14 hdl           authority-zebra-indexdefs
16:17 reiko         wow, its a big file
16:19 reiko         hdl, can it be that the auth types i can't get search results from need to be defined here aswell?
16:20 hdl           mmm could be
16:21 reiko         now all i need is to understand how i am going to add those
16:43 pianohacker   Hi
16:43 owen          Hi pianohacker
16:43 pianohacker   hey
16:52 schuster      Brendan here?
16:52 schuster      drat - was wanting a contact for the Vermont group.
17:14 chris         morning
17:15 owen          Hi chris
17:17 chris         hiya owen
17:17 pianohacker   morning chris
17:23 schuster      Hey...  chris et. al..
17:23 chris         heya schuster, hows texas?
17:24 schuster      As a librarian I don't understand this full tech part - so was wondering if there is a document or something that can explain how a developed "patch" submitted to git gets "packaged" etc...  I may have the cart before the horse, but don't know.  Just in theory.
17:24 |Lupin|       wizzyrea: do you intend to participate ?
17:25 pianohacker   schuster: I don't know if there's a document per se
17:26 schuster      yesterday I asked about the 3.2 and the merging bibs - and chris indicated it needed to be "packaged" and I don't really understand what/how that works.
17:26 schuster      I also talked about the work pianohacker had done and was posted on the wiki and chris indicated there again about "installing and packaging it"...
17:27 schuster      There have been references in the past that "packaging" after developing something can take some time to do - so I am just trying to understand how the full Development cycle works.
17:28 Ropuch        Good evening
17:28 schuster      Idea, design, develop, test, revise, package?, git, release? or what is the flow and the steps.
17:29 chris         hmm i dont think i said packaged
17:30 chris         i said merged
17:30 schuster      OK so I made that word up, but you get my question?
17:30 chris         when someone sends a patch
17:30 chris         the release manager has to apply it to the branch in git it is applicable to
17:33 chris         so you develop, test locally, send a patch, the release manager applies and tests, if it is ok, pushes it to the main git repo
17:34 chris         some time later a release is made, containing not just that feature/bugfix but a bunch of others
17:34 chris         with pianohacker's ajaxcirc work, the patches were out of date, so had to be brought back up to date and fixed, before they can be resubmitted
17:35 pianohacker   chris and I are working on that at the moment
17:36 chris         it is a perfect example of what happens when patches arent either sent or applied in a timely manner, and what is gonna happen on a much bigger and much more annoying scale, when liblime finally decide in 2020 to release their lek code
17:37 brendan       morning schuster, pianohacker, chris, and everyone else
17:37 brendan       @wunder 93117
17:37 munin         brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 15.7�C (9:36 AM PST on November 12, 2009). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 29.84 in 1010.4 hPa (Rising).
17:37 pianohacker   hi brendan
17:37 schuster      So again Librarian here...  how much time on the release managers part does it take to "applies and tests" just one patch and say it is a simple thing nothing elaborate like HOLDS redo or anything.
17:38 chris         craploads
17:38 pianohacker   schuster: varies
17:38 schuster      hi brendan...  I was looking for you earlier, but got my answer.
17:38 brendan       sweet
17:38 chris         schuster: always more than you think
17:38 brendan       was it on IRC
17:38 schuster      brendan yes.
17:38 chris         unless it is a one or 2 line template change
17:38 brendan       cool will go read in the Logs
17:39 chris         the main thing is testing for unintended side effects
17:39 schuster      I would suspect that is the hardest thing to determine are the side effects.
17:39 chris         that's why it is in fantastic that for 3.4 we are going to have a bug wrangler and a qa manager
17:39 chris         that takes 2 jobs off the RM
17:40 chris         which will allow them more time to do other things, and should hope in faster turnaround on patches
17:40 schuster      So will the aq and wrangler have their own systems that are "in sync" with the RM? theoretically or will they all be working off the same system?
17:40 chris         own systems in sync
17:40 schuster      aq/qa sorry.
17:40 chris         git makes that easy
17:40 brendan       schuster the best person to talk with at vokal
17:40 brendan       is Richard Pritsky
17:41 brendan       he was at kohacon
17:41 schuster      brendan - ok thanks - this was in regards to KUDOS in the US and someone that was at ALA annual.  I think it was the director from stowe
17:41 brendan       Yes Stephanie Chase was their
17:41 brendan       there
17:42 schuster      That's who I have emailed so am waiting to hear from her.  Thanks for your time.
17:42 brendan       of course
17:54 * chris       is watching nz vs pakistan in cricket
17:55 brendan       test match
17:56 chris         20/20
18:04 chris         and adding travel tips
18:04 chris         http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=kohacon2010wellington#travel_tips
18:05 chris         i hope to hear back from more venues soon, would love to confirm dates and venue
18:06 jwagner       chris, I had a dream the other night that I was on the plane for Kohacon in NZ, first class seat, big smile on my face, looking forward to the trip despite the long flight. The bell dinged for the pilot to say you could move around the cabin now, except horrid reality intruded and it was my alarm clock instead :-(
18:06 chris         hehe
18:07 chris_n       jwagner: lol
18:08 chris_n       chris: can you free my email from the list jail please :-)
18:08 chris         yup
18:08 jwagner       Dreams are SO much nicer than reality....
18:11 chris         the flight is really not that bad anymore, now you have the seatback entertainment its much better, course i have done that flight about 30 times now
18:11 chris         so im used to it
18:11 chris         just get an aisle seat so you can walk around is my tip
18:12 jwagner       the problem is that I have arthritis rather badly (and also need a knee replacement) -- I have real trouble sitting in an airplane seat for that long, even with getting up and moving around occasionally.
18:12 schuster      At one point you recommended a particular airport etc...  I was looking the other day and Aukland was a major airport with a transfer to Wellington I believe...  Comments?
18:12 schuster      Might be good to put that info on the wiki too.
18:12 chris         yep you really only have 2 options
18:12 chris         three maybe
18:13 chris         auckland, and christchurch are the 2 major international airports
18:13 chris         or there are direct flights australia to wellington
18:13 chris         jwagner: ahh yeah, that would be bad
18:13 jwagner       I did some checks for flights and some were connecting through Sydney to Wellington
18:13 chris         *nod*
18:14 * jdavidb     debates the fun of arriving in Auckland and *driving* to Wellington.
18:14 jwagner       Yeah, travel is generally painful.  But going to New Zealand might be worth it.
18:14 chris         be warned that will add a few hours to your trip (going thru sydney)
18:14 chris         jdavidb: its about 10 hours in a car
18:14 chris         if you dont stop
18:15 chris         or 55 mins in a plane :)
18:15 jdavidb       No biggie, then, for those of us used to that.  I'd rather take a night, and make a mini vacation out of it.
18:15 chris         *nod*
18:15 chris         its a nice drive
18:15 chris         just keep left :-)
18:15 jdavidb       :)  I can do that.
18:16 jwagner       I've driven in England -- guess I can remember the trick of it.  But I hope the roads are a bit wider than some of the English country roads.
18:18 chris         there are tons and tons of akl->wlg flights
18:19 chris         so getting to auckland for cheap is the best bet :) you do have to pick up your luggage and clear customs there anyway
18:19 chris         so booking a flight all the way through, doesnt save you much, unless it is cheaper :)
18:30 chris         bbiab
18:42 schuster      hmmm  $1400USD right now from DFW to Wellington 2 stops - not bad.
18:43 jdavidb       LAX and Aukland, for the stops, schuster?
18:43 * jdavidb     can't type today.  Auckland, of course.
18:48 schuster      Yep.
18:48 jdavidb       $2300 from the DC area, right now, round-trip.  Lordy.
18:49 |Lupin|       does anyone know how the number of items displayed in OPAC result pages is computed ? I assume it's from the number of rows in the items table with the same biblionumber... ?
18:49 |Lupin|       are you guys taling about the prices of planes to NZ because of the conference ?
18:50 schuster      Funny my mibbit has deals to NZ starting at $798! quantas and Air NZ
18:51 pianohacker   |Lupin|: on search results it comes from the holding tags in the MARC, on detail pages it comes from the items table; and yes
18:52 |Lupin|       pianohacker: ok jesse, thanks a lot for this both concise and informative response :)
18:52 pianohacker   you're welcome :)
18:53 |Lupin|       is there a date that has been decided for the next conf already ?
18:53 chris         jdavidb: i found one 1049 lax->akl retn
18:53 pianohacker   Yes
18:53 chris         tentative
18:53 chris         15, 16, 17 november
18:53 chris         those dates or ones similiar
18:53 chris         i have 4 more quotes to receive
18:54 chris         then i will confirm
18:54 chris         should be in a week or so
18:54 chris         (wont go later than that, dont want to get to close to thanksgiving in the US)
18:54 chris         so may be the week before
18:54 chris         8,9,10
18:54 chris         but most likely 15,16,17 november 2010
18:55 chris         jdavidb: check out virgin australia, seems to be cheap at
18:55 chris         the moment
18:55 chris         ok now i have to catch my bus
18:55 brendan       I've been watching the quantas deals and it seems that's close to good window for travel.  Anything that gets close to Thanksgiving time here -- the prices shot way up
18:56 brendan       so I've vote for earlier in November
18:56 brendan       errrr... I'll
18:57 brendan       typed english is failing me at the moment :)
18:57 |Lupin|       chris: ok, thanks a lot for the info, very good to know !
18:58 |Lupin|       gotta go
18:58 |Lupin|       see you soon all
19:35 richard       hi
19:36 brendan       good day richard
19:36 richard       hi brendan
19:36 chris         back
19:36 richard       hiya chris'
19:38 brendan       wb chris
19:38 brendan       how goes the cricket
19:39 chris         we suck
19:40 chris         http://www.cricinfo.com/pakvnz2009/content/current/story/434285.html
19:40 brendan       Still need to route from them :)
19:40 brendan       whoops -- root
19:41 brendan       are there going to be any cricket matches in NZ around the time we'll be there for kohacon
19:41 brendan       or any rugby?
19:42 * wizzyrea    would like to watch rugby, even though sports are not normally her thing.
19:43 chris         cricket will def be on
19:44 chris         its summer, so rugby will only be on tv
19:44 wizzyrea      hrmph
19:44 chris         nz will be touring the northern hemisphere handing out beatdowns to france, italy, england etc
19:44 chris         but we could watch a game at a sports pub
19:44 chris         thats quite an nz experience :(
19:44 chris         :) even
19:46 brendan       pubs++
19:46 hdl           hi chris
19:46 brendan       hi hdl
19:46 hdl           hi brendan
19:47 wizzyrea      beer++
19:47 brendan       NZ++
19:49 chris         hiya hdl
19:57 brendan       doesn't like it when my co-workers are traveling -- don't have anyone to talk with :)
19:57 brendan       so tag -- you're it #koha
19:57 wizzyrea      awww
19:58 chris         hehe
19:58 chris         looks like it was a good first day
19:58 chris         of the conference
19:58 brendan       does anyone know of a status for a bulk item editor
19:58 brendan       I thought I heard word of something
19:59 * brendan     goes to look through bugs
19:59 chris         yeah it exists
19:59 chris         i have it running on my catalyst demo, another biblibre one
19:59 chris         im not sure if its in master yet
19:59 brendan       bug 3509
20:00 munin         04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3509 enhancement, P5, ---, kohaprogrammers@ptfs.com, ASSIGNED, Batch item edit
20:00 chris         lemme find it for ya
20:00 chris         it might be a little bit different
20:04 chris         http://librarian.koha.catalystdemo.net.nz/cgi-bin/koha/tools/batchMod.pl
20:05 chris         works pretty good
20:06 schuster      do you have a login we can play with?
20:08 chris         check your pm schuster :)
20:09 chris         http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=koha.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/master
20:09 chris         is what it is running
20:09 chris         git clone git://git.catalyst.net.nz/koha.git
20:09 chris         will get you a copy of it
20:10 chris         it has my nearly finished recommendations feature
20:10 chris         as well as kete integration
20:10 owen          Recommendations feature?
20:10 * chris       will pull it up for ya
20:11 chris         prolly cant be used so good with us libraries that anonymise checkouts, not in its current form
20:11 chris         http://opac.koha.catalystdemo.net.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=fish  <-- that is kete integration
20:11 chris         excuse the slowness, the machine it is on is currently running 38 virtual servers
20:12 ricardo       Hi everyone!  :)
20:14 schuster      That works pretty good.  Thanks for sharing chris.
20:14 schuster      I wonder if you could use something very similar for batch deletes?
20:15 chris         http://opac.koha.catalystdemo.net.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=4
20:15 chris         owen: click the recommendations tab
20:15 chris         schuster: im sure it could
20:15 owen          Neat. And that's based on circ data?
20:16 chris         yep, cron job runs nightly, that updates the recommendations
20:16 chris         too slow to calculate on the fly
20:16 brendan       nice nice
20:16 brendan       recommendations++
20:16 chris         so if it was run before the circ data was anonymised
20:16 brendan       howdy owen
20:17 chris         then after running it for a few montsh, you could switch it on in the opac
20:17 chris         and you would have some decent data
20:17 chris         all it stores is this
20:17 chris         +----+------------+------------+-----------+
20:17 chris         | id | biblio_one | biblio_two | hit_count |
20:17 chris         +----+------------+------------+-----------+
20:17 chris         |  1 |          4 |      68692 |         2 |
20:17 chris         |  2 |          4 |     108069 |         2 |
20:17 brendan       chris where is this coming from - is this your development
20:17 schuster      chris that is way cool!
20:18 * brendan     reads back :)
20:18 chris         yep, for albany senior high school, im rolling it out there in the next week or so
20:18 chris         it will miss the cut for 3.2 (we are in feature freeze already)
20:18 chris         but ill submit the patches up so people can use it, and it will go in to master as soon as 3.2 is branched
20:19 * chris       does all development in the open
20:19 owen          :)
20:20 schuster      :)
20:20 brendan       open development++
20:20 schuster      karma chris++
20:20 * brendan     has had a bunch of coffee this morning :)  throwing lots of karma around
20:21 schuster      What happened with granular permissions??  I poked and don't see anything on the borrower record.
20:21 chris         lek happened
20:21 chris         i think biblibre have done some work on it though as well
20:21 chris         lemme find it for ya
20:21 pianohacker   PTFS did some work in that realm also
20:21 pianohacker   not sure when it will be submitted
20:21 schuster      curious what happens with the few granular permissions that I have right now and what will happen when I get updated to 3.2...
20:21 pianohacker   jdavidb (or jwagner when she gets back)?
20:22 jdavidb       We've been hacking on it some, and as soon as that worthless geek who does that (me) gets his head above water, it'll be out on the street.
20:22 pianohacker   jdavidb: awesome
20:22 brendan       jdavidb any update on a public repo for PTFS
20:22 schuster      boy chris may have his work cut out for him with 3.4 if all that development drops at the same time.
20:22 jdavidb       <--the bottleneck.
20:22 brendan       good luck jdavidb
20:22 chris         schuster: id rather that than the oppositie ;-)
20:23 schuster      jwagner - would you go over and make him quit eating donuts...
20:23 chris         typing fail
20:23 schuster      True chris.
20:23 jdavidb       It's possible I might get a few branches tossed over the wall this weekend, depending on how a couple of things go between now and then.
20:30 brendan       hello sekjal
20:31 chris         hiya sekjal
20:31 schuster      chris et al - granular wasn't turned on so they didn't show... few.
20:31 chris         cool
20:32 jwagner       schuster -- saw the comment about making jdavidb quit eating donuts.  That's not the problem :-)  But for the past week or so he's been in my office raiding my leftover Halloween candy!
20:33 Ropuch        chris: I'm just translating some Koha history into polish, on wiki I've read "In 2001, Paul Poulain (of Marseille, France) began adding new features to Koha, most significantly support for multiple languages.", on your blog Benedykt P. Barszcz and Pawel Skuza are meant to "start the translation ball rolling"
20:33 pianohacker   halloween candy is a danger to society and waistlines
20:33 schuster      and teeth!  I feel mine rotting daily!
20:33 Ropuch        I will happily mention polish guys, but I want to be acurate [;
20:34 chris         yeah they beat him
20:34 Ropuch        hehehe
20:34 chris         the most accurate one is the history.txt in git
20:35 chris         http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=blob;f=docs/history.txt;
20:35 Ropuch        Thanks
20:35 chris         June 23 2001     Benedykt P. Barszcz working on translations     translation, community, poland
20:36 chris         June 24 2001     Pawel Skuza working on a script to automate translations       translation
20:36 chris         February 22 2002         Paul Poulain sends an email saying he will work on Koha
20:36 chris         March 6 2002     Paul becomes the 7th committer to Koha
20:37 chris         uly 12 2001     Pawel Skuza becomes the 2nd committer outside of Katipo, and 6th overall and commits his translation script
20:37 Ropuch        I just want to mention them, it's brief history ;>
20:37 sekjal        hi, chris and brendan
20:37 sekjal        sorry, was gliffing
20:37 chris         so polish guys were very early in the history of koha
20:38 Ropuch        I wonder what they are doing nowadays
20:38 sekjal        trying to document the process by which we're going to connect our SFX Open Linker Resolver to Koha
20:38 chris         Ropuch: if i remember right Benedykt was from a monastery
20:41 ricardo2      chris: There's also another religious "Benedict"... but I think that one works in the Vatican and not in a Monastery  ;-)
20:42 chris         heh
20:44 chris         wow i found an email from him from august 2000
20:44 pianohacker   long_term_email_storage++
20:45 ricardo       pianohacker: Hmm.... I'm not sure I know that nick  ;-)
20:45 owen          outlook_express-- # for long_term_email_storage
20:45 owen          (That's what ate my 2000-era email archive)
20:47 Ropuch        chris: yes, he's from Societas Apostolatus Catholici
20:47 chris         good work sherlock holmes :)
20:48 jwagner       sekjal, re SFX -- I've done a little work with setting Koha to link to SFX, but haven't gone the other way.  Shouldn't be too hard -- just put in the URL prefix and isbn=whatever.
20:48 chris         http://twitpic.com/p9gd4  <-- wellington zoo today
20:48 Ropuch        chris: ;-)
20:49 ricardo       (one of the good things of being Portuguese is that it's easy to understand *some* Latin, even without having learned it, eheh)
20:49 jwagner       awwwwww
20:50 ricardo       chris: I hope that the two creatures lying down had their lunch *before* that pic  ;-)
20:50 chris         hehe
20:52 sekjal        jwagner:  yes, we figure it won't be too hard to create an SFX target to connect to Koha; it's missing amongst the ILS Targets already in SFX, and that should not persist
20:52 ricardo       sekjal: SFX? We're not talking about "Sound Effects", are we?
20:53 jwagner       About two jobs ago I worked on an install of SFX/Metalib, and Ex Libris was pretty willing to work with us on setting stuff up, and including it in future general releases if appropriate.  They might still be open to that.
20:53 sekjal        ricardo: no, we're talking about Ex Libris' OpenURL resolver
20:54 ricardo       sekjal: Gotta love TLAs... Thanks for the info  :)
20:54 jwagner       Would there be general interest in the work I did to make a link from Koha to SFX?  I hard coded it in the template, but it wouldn't be hard to set it up as a syspref to enter the URL, then wrap it around the ISBN.
20:55 sekjal        jwagner: that might be neat.  we were thinking some JS overtop might be the least invasive way to do it quickly
20:55 jwagner       Might be at that -- I'm no JS wizard.  I go for the brute force approach :-)
20:55 jwagner       I turned on the COINS thing, but that apparently only works if someone has a browser plugin.  This site wanted the link always on for all their users.
20:56 jwagner       er, ISSN for SFX that is.
20:56 sekjal        my original plan was to dump the SFX menu URL into the biblioitems.uri field (MARC21's 856), but rethinking it, that's not strictly necessary
20:56 jwagner       (I did both ISBN and ISSN for this site at their request)
20:56 jwagner       I just coded it around the 856u in the XSLT templates.
20:57 sekjal        I'd just need to hardcode our SFX root URL, and then have the JS pluck up the ISBN/ISSN from the bibliorecord
20:57 jwagner       Gotta head home now -- keep me posted & let me know if you want what I've done.
20:57 sekjal        jwagner: will do!
20:57 Ropuch        What kind (male/female) of noun is "Koha"? [;
20:58 richard       it virtually means "gift" but i'm not sure if that has any male/female connections
20:59 sekjal        does Maori have gendered nouns?
20:59 Ropuch        I wonder
21:00 Ropuch        Well, as it ends with 'a' I treated her liek a girl ;-)
21:00 richard       not that i'm aware of but chris will be your best bet there
21:01 Ropuch        I guess
21:02 sekjal        according the collective wisdom that is a naive Google search, Maori generally does not have gendered nouns.
21:03 sekjal        which I always found a source of confusion when I was studying German.
21:03 sekjal        perhaps this will make it easier for me to pick up Maori by next year
21:03 chris         :)
21:04 Ropuch        So she's a girl for me ;>
21:04 chris         no note gendered nouns
21:05 Ropuch        We have gendered verbs in polish
21:05 sekjal        Ropuch: interesting!  ::takes note::
21:06 ricardo2      (grumble...)
21:06 chris         koha is a noun or a verb
21:06 ricardo2      Mibbit is not as stable today as it usually is
21:06 hdl           shuter already done
21:07 hdl           (batch deletes I mean)
21:07 Ropuch        sekjal: ;>
21:07 chris         we dont really have gendered anything
21:07 chris         but we have different possessives
21:07 Ropuch        Lucky you
21:08 Ropuch        When posting forms we're forced to add male/female versions
21:08 chris         tāku for my/mine when the possessor is dominant
21:08 Ropuch        As "Gdyby zechcial Pan/Zechcia�a pani"
21:08 ricardo       Portuguese has genders in its language (as do most "latin" languages, I think - Spanish, Italian, French...)
21:09 chris         taku hē = my mistake
21:09 chris         tōku is neutral form
21:09 hdl           reading back logs
21:09 chris         (both are singular)
21:10 sekjal        Ropuch: what is the difference between the male and female forms of a verb?  when would I use one over the other?
21:10 chris         drop the t, for plural
21:11 chris         one gotcha
21:11 chris         is i would say taku he, for my mistake
21:11 chris         but toku whakaaro, for my thoughts
21:12 chris         also, even though you are dominant over food, you would say toku kai ... because food is so important
21:12 chris         here endeth the lesson
21:13 Ropuch        sekjal: it does matter in past forms: On poszed�, Ona posz�a, Ono posz�o
21:13 Ropuch        He went, She went, it went
21:13 * owen        remembers the same from his Czech lessons
21:13 Ropuch        But there's not a hard rule for it
21:14 Ropuch        owen: yep
21:14 sekjal        Ropuch: ah, so the verb gender connects to the pronoun/noun gender
21:14 Ropuch        yes
21:14 sekjal        chris, Ropuch:  this is great.  I find linguisitics fascinating
21:15 sekjal        I took a semester in college, same semester as my first programming course, and my advanced algebra
21:15 chris         sekjal: you must talk with my dad then
21:15 sekjal        that semester was a headtrip
21:15 chris         he is a licensed translator and interpreter
21:15 sekjal        chris: very cool
21:15 chris         majored in russian at university, speaks italian, russian, german, and maori
21:16 chris         (oh and english)
21:17 chris         my sister majored in chinese, and did a year doing her masters at shanghai university
21:17 chris         im the only one in my family that only speaks 2 languages hehe
21:19 Ropuch        We have a treinee from Germany at work: besides german he speaks french, little italian & spanish, english and after just one year of learning he's actually speaking polish
21:19 Ropuch        And he speaks good - I'm more than impressed
21:20 chris         some people have natural ability
21:20 chris         it is a great skill to have ;)
21:21 Ropuch        Yeah
21:23 pianohacker   linguistics is fun
21:23 pianohacker   interesting to see unexpected connections between languages (like similar vowel pronunciation of spanish and japanese)
21:23 hdl           python, java ruby, javascript, fortran, ada, Haskell
21:24 hdl           trinitary roots
21:24 chris         :)
21:26 pianohacker   bbl
21:28 hdl           quite a huge discovery in linguistics
21:30 Ropuch        I've counted 75 languages on translate.koha.org
21:30 Ropuch        Nice
21:31 ricardo       Ropuch: Don't talk about languages, please. OK? I'm in "turbo mode" translating the Portuguese PO file for staff! ;-)
21:31 chris         hehe
21:31 ricardo       hdl: Hi Henri!  :)
21:32 chris         yeah i just added sindhi the other day
21:32 Ropuch        I don't feel like translating staff today, I'm preparing speech on Koha for open source conference ;>
21:32 chris         cool
21:32 ricardo       hdl: I'm around line 43000 in the Portuguese PO file. I think that I will have this wrapped up in a day or two. Would that be still on time for 3.0.5?
21:33 ricardo       Ropuch: That's cool. Good luck for your speech!  :)
21:34 hdl           ricardo I think so
21:34 hdl           hi ricardo
21:35 ricardo       hdl: Cool. Thanks for the info  :)
21:35 hdl           ricardo: I thought I should release this week.
21:36 ricardo       hdl:Hmmm... And do you still think that?
21:36 hdl           But some weirdness in french po and my work kept me out of this.
21:36 ricardo       hdl: That's great! (please don't take this the wrong way, eheh)
21:36 hdl           So I think it will have to wait next week
21:37 ricardo       hdl: That's (very) fine by me.
21:39 sekjal        time to head to the train.  cheers, #koha
21:42 Ropuch        http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=kohausers - is this a most comprehensive list of Koha users/
21:42 Ropuch        ?
21:43 ricardo       hdl: Talking about weirdness, there's some weirdness related to "C4::Language" that affects the Portuguese pt-PT translation (mistakingly uses the very incomplete - specially for staff - pt-BR one). I talked with Chris about that and he suggested to remove the pt-BR translation, while he doesn't get around to "refactor" C4:Language. Right chris?
21:43 chris         yeah, i meant to email you hdl, can we leave the pt-BR .po file out of the 3.0.5 release
21:44 chris         Ropuch: its one list of users
21:44 chris         another list is at libwebcats lemme get it for ya
21:45 chris         http://www.librarytechnology.org/lwc-search-advanced.pl
21:45 chris         just type koha in the current automatiion system (dont choose any of the options just type koha)
21:46 chris         and it will find all the koha - independent, koha - liblime, koha - ptfs etc
21:46 chris         there are 43 pages of them :)
21:50 ricardo       OK. I'm leaving to home now. Take care everyone!  :)
21:50 hdl           ricardo: I can
21:50 ricardo       hdl: Cool. Thank you very much!  :)
21:50 ricardo       chris: Thank you, as well
21:50 ricardo       OK. Off I go. Bye people!
21:52 Ropuch        chris: bah, I totally forgot about  lib-web-cats
22:12 schuster      bye
22:14 brendan       @wunder 93117
22:14 munin         brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 16.9�C (2:12 PM PST on November 12, 2009). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 79%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 29.75 in 1007.3 hPa (Falling).
23:34 chris_n2      g'evening
23:35 Ropuch        Good evening & good night [;